Kinda Funny Gamescast: Video Game Podcast - What's The Value of a $60 Game? Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 20

Episode Date: May 15, 2020

Tim, Greg, Blessing, and Imran discuss what they have been playing and how much games should cost. Time Stamps - 00:02:30 - Julian’s Story 00:07:12 - What Have We Been Playing? 00:43:45 - Topic of the Show: What Is The Value of a $60 Game? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up guys? Welcome back to the Kind of Funny Games cast. As always, I'm Tim Getty's joined by one of the coolest dudes in video games. Greg Miller. Hachimachi, cheesy crackers are feet. What the fuck did you see? What are you doing? What's it even happening? Holy See what? Oh my God. It is 2 p.m. on a Thursday, I think. I'm double-cheeked up on a Thursday afternoon. Is that a French press? It is a French press. I wanted more coffee.

You got a problem with that. Imran, I'll come through this fucking screen. We also have the former and former. Imran Khan. Howdy. Man, the new face of video games blessing. Aday-Oye Jr. It's me.

Am I cut off at the top? I'm trying to like manage my webicam. I'm trying to make sure like I don't look like my forehead's missing, you know? You're trying to manage expectations right now, just like every video game. developer and publisher in the freaking world. Oh, yeah, man. I'm trying to make sure that, you know, this is next gen, but this isn't like next, next gen.

You love to see it. This is the Kind of Funny Games cast each and every week right here on YouTube. com slash Kind of Funny Games. We get together, talk about video games, all the things that we love about them. You can watch it live if you are at patreon.com slash kind of funny games supporter. Or you can watch it later for free on YouTube.com slash kind of funny games. Rastatit.com, or you can listen to it on your favorite podcast, service to search for kind of funny games cast. But going back to that Patreon thing, a lot of cool perks there.

Cool perks like being a Patreon producer, getting the show ad-free. Those producers include Muhammad Muhammad, Al Tribesman, James Hastings, Sancho West Gaming, Cody Banks, Trent Berry, Joseph O. Yusuf, Scott Raddoff, and Julian, the gluten-free gamer. Now, guys, I can see it on all of your. faces right now. You're all wondering, I wonder, I wonder if Julian the gluten-free gamer has an amazing story that needs to be read live right now. And the answer for all of you is yes. Last week, we talked about hype game launches that we remember. And Julian wrote in a banger. Okay. It's a journey. I need you all to strap in right now. I need you all to stand up.

Oh, God. They're going to see my gray sweatpants. and then sit down because I need to make sure that you're sitting down for this, okay? I don't know. I see what he's doing. That was a bit. You all took way longer to stand up than I expected. I got to make sure I had to check. I was wearing pants.

It was the disbelief first. It was like, do we really have to stand up? I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it all. So, Julian, the gluten-free gamer, writes in and says, my midnight launch story, I promise

it's worth it. Sorry, I wasn't watching live, but wanted to get in my midnight launch story for Gears of War II because it was a shit show. 16 years old, my best friend's mom drives us to our New Jersey GameStop at 8 p.m. Three of us wait in line, probably 100 people there as my friend's mom, like a champ, listens to audiobooks in her van the entire time from the parking lot, so we had a ride home. The gluten-free gamer, unbeknownst to him, had celiac disease. I was not yet gluten-free. Oh, no. Origin stories.

To have a pizza that night. Oh, no, Julian. At 12.30 as the line begins to move. In a panic, I say, give me one second. I have to make a phone call. The only people I would call are with me, but they believed it. No stores are open on a Tuesday morning, 1230 a.m. In desperation, the following events transatlore.

buyer. Not only for this is gone, bless. I found a bank, ran around to the back, and shit in the employee parking lot behind the bank. I couldn't hold it in. It's definitely a first for me. I then do what I do to clean myself up.

And then I take a dead sprint back to where I see my friends near the door. We get in. They told us we weren't 17 yet. And even though we preordered the game, paid in full, we needed a parent at pickup. up. Our one friend was in luck. His mom came in and those fuckers wouldn't let me get the game because she wasn't my mom. They gave me a card for a gold lancer skin and said, come back

tomorrow. Unfortunate man. It could end there. Oh. Oh no. But my friends, it doesn't. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. My friend's mom drops us off at our houses. I ponder. And then I put, my shoes back on. I grab a beach bucket and pale from the basement. And at 2 a.m. on a school night, I jog a town over back to this game stop.

I shovel up my aforementioned shit with a children's beach shovel and I move it to the back door of the game spot. Game stop. You'll love to see it. Wow. Because I thought turns. I thought you know they lived here, die the villain

or whatever was going to play into he didn't want to leave his shit. at the bank, so he's just going to clean it up. But when he said I went back a two towns or a town over to the game stop, that's when I was like, uh-oh. Why couldn't they just take a new shit? Can you shit on demand? Could you shit right now?

I feel like, I mean, two hours after you already like in a, yeah, exactly, evacuating your bowels. See, I rolled the dice this morning where I had to take a poop last night while I was playing Predator, which was off schedule. And so then this morning I woke up and didn't have to poop. And so then it was a thing of like, well, this throws the whole day off. do I need to be worried.

I had to make a run to do some things in Oakland. I was like, do I have to worry about pooping now when I'm in Oakland? I feel like if you know you're about to take a jog to a different town and you know you're going to need to shit in that town, you can prepare it in a way that makes it so you don't have to take it. Like, I don't find old shit. Imron,

here's the thing, though, like we're talking about a, at this point, less than 17 year old boy. He doesn't understand his body. You don't mean? This is Julian. Yeah,

he doesn't know he's got a gluten. Nowadays, he would just eat a breadstick and jog over there and be all said, Baha, or take that place out, you know what I mean? But then he was just a young poop terrorist in the making. He didn't understand. I'm on Aaron's side here. Imagine being the bank tellers and looking at the security footage. Obviously, this kid's shit outside.

Then you see him come back and put it into a beach walk away. Oh, my God. Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is the kind of funny games cast. So we're going to get right into it. gentlemen, it's been a while since I've talked to you at least a week. What have you been playing? Expected more of an immediate answer there. Here's the thing, Tim.

You're podcasting like we're all in the room and we can read each other with you. And when you're here and we're all sanctioned in quarantine, you've got to go, what do you play in? Blessing. Blessing what you've been playing. Gotcha. Throw the ball on you. Greg Miller, I need you to stand up. Why did we revere the big D?

Andy. Fuck you guys. I'll tell you what I've been playing. I've been playing a lot of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, man. Oh. The reveal of Tony Hux Pro Skater 1 and 2, it got me in a mood. That mood immediately led to Spotify playlist that I've always had on my phone. It's like I have the playlist downloaded, right?

But I was like, I'm going to go all in. I'm listening. And I listen to every single song from Tony Hocke's Pro Skater 1 all the way through American Wasteland. That's more commitment than anybody I know has ever given to the Tony Hux George Bored franchise. Which game would you say has the best soundtrack? Best soundtrack is a very, very, very hard thing to answer. But I think the-

Is it, though? Because is the answer not three. The answer is three, plus, you're right. But the thing is, when you're talking best, I think four is actually the best. Pound for pound amount of high-quality songs. Four is insane. Insane.

They have too many high-level classics because four is when they started making money. You know what I mean? It wasn't just the, underground well before thought but like you know underground music that was cheap to license out and there's exceptions to those rules for sure obviously in Tony Hawk one and two and three but it was like four is really with oh they got ACDC it's like yeah they can do whatever the fuck they want to do you know what I can hear that yeah but um I I've had a great time doing all that but then I was like I want to go back and

play these games because okay Tony Hawk's pro skater one and two I could not be more excited they look amazing vicarious visions knocked it out of the park with the Crash Bandicoot remakes, I would not put this game in better hands than this. But we've seen Tony Hux Pro Skater 1 and 2 now on every generation since they've come out. They originally came out on the PS1 generation as separate games. Then when we got to the next gen,

Xbox GameCube, PS2, on Xbox, they came out with Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2X, which was just 1 and 2 together. Then PS3 360, they put out Tony Hux Pro Skater age 2. that was a weird remix of one and two. It was like 50-50 kind of where, well, not like the grind though. You know what I'm talking about guys?

No, it was like half Tony Hawk one. There we go. Half Tony Hawk two. Getting stuff, skating stuff. And the problem, that game, I think, gets shit on more than it deserves, but it didn't feel right. And everyone, everyone can admit that.

It was just like, it was cool, but like it didn't feel like Tony Hawk should. And then now we're getting this one. And it's like, from what I've seen, From what I'm hearing, speaking the right language, man. It's going to feel right. Somer House Pro Skater, how it should be. They definitely made a point to say it's Neversoff's old handling code.

Like, it should feel exactly the same as the old games because it's the exact same code. And I'm all about that, man. But I tried going back and I was like, I want to play some of these older games to know what that code feels like. And it's too difficult to be able to properly do this because it's like, I own these games. Like I own physical copies of all of them that have them. The HD's only digital, but I had that on PS3. So I had my PS3. I'm like, that's cool.

But my PS3, the version I have now was not backwards compatible. So I can't play my stupid ass Tony Hawk 1 and 2 discs on PS1 because my launch PS3 died. And I'm like, I hate that this is all so complicated. I'm like, I'm going to lean over to the Xbox side of things. They have excellent backwards compatibility. It can play Xbox games. I own Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2X on the original Xbox. I'll be able to just pop it in and play.

Not the case, my friends. Not the case. Did you know that not every disc is compatible with backwards compatibility? Like that's public knowledge. Imran's like, yeah, of course. A quick Google shows that. But like for some reason, I felt like we were past that. Where it's just like, no, fuck it, it works now.

It doesn't. Like when you say every disc, are you saying that like, is it not a backwards compatible game or is it just the disc doesn't work for backwards compatibility? I mean, both. Okay. Yeah. If the disc doesn't work, then it wouldn't be downloadable. But I knew it too.

It was just a bummer, you know? Then I look at this long list of like backwards compatible games. No Tony Hawk game on the list. Licensing is hell. Yeah. So long story short, I emulated a lot in the last couple of days. So at the point here, I've broken a lot of DRM. But I own the games.

To be very clear, like I literally own physically, like all. of these Tony Hawk games, including Tony Hawk 2x on the Xbox. That's as obscure as you freaking get. You can't own the gun, but you just can't throw the bullets everywhere. All right, then. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've been having a great time. And it's like, I love the idea that these games are going to be classic and have the same momentum and feel of the originals. But with the added elements that three and four, you know, kind of created where they added the revert, they added the spine transfers and balancing out in the air. That's what one and two are totally missing. Like one and two are classics, but they're not playable today. And I mean

playable in the way of like, they're not classics anymore. Like you play them, you're like, oh, okay. These don't hold up as much. Whereas you could play three or four and you're still like, oh my God, this is butter. And I'm expecting based on this gameplay that we've seen that the one and two remakes are going to play like three and four. And this is really exciting time for Tim Gettys. It's about time. It's about time. I haven't had anything to look forward to in years, you know. Are you, do you plan to hit up the thug games? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm trying to make my way through all of them right now.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm right now I'm midway through two going through, like going through all of it. And I'm having a good time. But yeah, I'm itching to get to three because I need that revert. No, yeah, three is where three obviously is the one that kind of changed things, right? Like from the get-go, Tony Hawk was always great. But like three is where like, yeah, when you add was that was the revert, right?

That's when they added. Three was, two was manual. And I would argue two was the one that changed the game. Like two really, one was a neat idea. Two was like, oh, fuck, this is a game. I guess two and three both kind of changed the games and changed the game in their own ways. But like, yeah, dude, having the manual plus the revert and having, having three that like, I feel like it has such a great selection of levels.

Like I can name probably most of those levels off the top, right? From Foundry, Canada, LA, airport, the Rio. Yeah, like the ship. Like there are such good levels in three. Tokyo? Yeah. Was Tokyo in three? Oh yeah.

Why don't I remember it? It was after the cruise ship. Wait, I thought the cruise ship was the last level. Am I crazy? Was it a different level? I think wasn't cruise ship last level and then there was three bonus levels. That might have been. We also included the remakes of Warehouse Area 3.

Remake Tony Hawk 3. Yeah. Well, here's my thing. The Tony Hux Pro Skater H. To end the Tony Hawk Top. real quick. Shut the fuck up, Greg Millie.

You never played a skate game in your life. I did play the skate games motherfucker. Yeah, but I, with TonyaX, Pro Skater HD, it was the weird mix of one and two.

And then for DLC, they did the three pack, which added the revert finally. And then it added LA, airport, and Canada.

Airport is so good. Yeah. It's just so good. And based on, one, Vicarious Vision's track record and kind of Activision as a whole when it comes to these these remakes like Beanox did Crash Team Racing, but they put so much love and care into the DLC of that. And I feel like a lot of this is kind of like step by step where it went from insane trilogy, Spiral Trilogy, Crash Team Racing. Now we're getting Tony Hawk. I imagine we are

either going to get Tony Hawk 3 and 4 in the future or DLC. And I'd almost rather DLC. Yeah, like I can see the DLC Like Pax being like Tony Hawk Plus 3 or something like that Like we're adding 3 and then like later on They're making it 1 plus 2 plus 3 plus 4 Like I can see them going that route Like the more I've been thinking about it

I've been not just getting bigger and bigger It's just adder Imran What have you been playing? So I finished Dishonored 2 Which was a good game I think a lot of that game Like everyone says oh this game is underrated

which it is, but there's only like, there's two very standout levels, which are one is the Clockwork Mansion, which is a very cool, like, level where things shift around as you pull levers and stuff like that. And the other is a crack in the slab. And I want to talk about this level

because this has the exact, you remember it caused an effect from Titanfall 2? That level where it's like, press R2 to change time. Time travel. Time travel, yeah. This has that exact same mechanic is in a more open thing,

and it's insane to me because those two games are two weeks apart. And everyone gives Titanfall all the credit for this thing and no one ever talks about Desanter 2 having it. Yeah, and Disaner 2, I feel like used it in more of an in-depth way, right? Because, like, yeah, it is more open.

It is an immersive system. You are, like, having to problem solve and actually, like, traverse this whole level while trying to figure out how you're going to stealth your way through this through two different times. Titanfall 2, like, it was very impressive and very awesome in Titanfall 2 also. But yeah, in Titanfall 2, it felt way more of a straight,

forward like set piece thing of like oh yeah like you shoot two people in in uh in in previous time and then you immediately uh flash forward to to current times you see their dead bodies on the floor which is like a cool effect but dishonor two i feel like doesn't get enough credit for how well it does it also it's hunter two has just like one where you you see this note saying these people are here to fix the windows it has to be tonight or it won't be for months so i see those guys there fixing the windows i'm like fuck it i'm just going to like knock them out i knock them out i knock them out then I'd fast forward back in time and the window is just not fixed

and I can go through it and go to an entirely new area it's like it's stuff like that that's super cool it's shocking to me no one ever talks about what Zonter 2 that said that game gets kind of boring in spots and I don't think it ends super great but I think it was fun I like this 1001 a little bit better

but I think Dissaner 2 is fine I decided that I'm going to give up on Streets of Rages platinum what? Oh my God. I see you playing it nonstop. No. Because it's so difficult.

How many hours are you in now? I probably put like 45 hours-ish in there. Oh my God. But like hard S-Ranks. Getting S-ranks in that game in general is arcane. You have to hit a certain point threshold and it's not always super clear of how you do it. So like it's get combos and don't lose any health really.

And sometimes it's one of those things of stuff that you think as cool as you're playing the game becomes maddening when you're trying to perfect the game. I hate that. I hate when a troveous is like that. Yeah. So like there's a part in the game where you're a Turkish bath and like you and you and the enemy slip a little as you're like

going through like up and down and that can be, that's a fun little thing, twist on the game, our element level design of it. But when you're trying to like barely hit an enemy to get a combo going and it slipped a little bit too far and then jabbed you in the face and breaks your combo, that's so fucking annoying.

And it's like, literally I was at the point where I was screaming at the game and I realized I'm going to have to just stop or I'm going to hate this thing. Or I'm going to kill this. I'm going to leave this game with negative feelings even though I've loved most of it up until now. So it's one of those things. This has happened to me before with Platinum's of when I try to platinum a game, I realize all the things that break it open. And sometimes it's like, it's finding cool things. And sometimes it's like, oh, this is the most annoying thing in the game I've seen. And it's making me dislike this thing that I enjoyed enough to get this far.

Damn. You live long enough to see yourself become the villain. You know, you're digging up your own shit. Dumping it on GameStop before. I can't believe it. That's crazy. No, yeah, that's the thing. So on PS I Love You This week, a guy wrote in for his profile was like, you know,

I want to get a platinum trophy. I want to get my first platinum trophy, what should it be? Or no, it's 50th, right? And it was like, what should it be? And so we submitted or came back with infamous first light because we'd been talking about earlier and how I had never platinum it. And I think you'd never played it blessed or you'd never platinum it. I never platinum it.

Yeah, no, I had like 12 trophies in it. And so it was that idea of like, all right, you know what? Because he's like, you know, I'm a single dad or I'm a dad and I have a job. So I don't have that much time. I have that much money or money, blah, blah, blah. Like, all right, do this. It'll be a fun one. And it's one that I never platinumed because, and I love it.

infamous and I love sucker punch. But I remember the challenge rooms in it being like, I'm not really enjoying this. And I bounced and I think I got distracted by something else, yada, yada, yada. So I red downloaded it to do it along with the community or whatever and started playing it. And I went and did the challenges I have to do in the open world or whatever. I still have a few, I guess, to work on order because there's a ton of challenges. I have to do them all. And then I went into the stupid rooms again. I was like, oh man, no, I fucking hate this. Why do I say this on a podcast? I fucking hate this. I had the exact same experience yesterday when I played where like I I remember enjoying the challenge rooms and I was talking about PSL of you. I was like

oh yeah I remember loving those and I think it was just one of those things where I enjoyed it because I didn't try like I enjoyed those challenge rooms because I wasn't going for a score I was going into this fuck around and so yeah when I played when I opened up yesterday like I completed my open world challenges and I was like oh this is a blast and granted only took me like 20 to 30 minutes because I had already cleaned up the open world but yeah then I went into the challenge rooms and I started doing the challenges and I was like all right I got to get 250,000 points and then I started and I died at like 30,000 and I was like, huh, and I tried again. And then like, at a certain

point I was just like, yo, fuck this, man. I hate this. Like, I hate these, like, once they start introducing like the supernatural enemies. Yeah, there's fucking flying wraiths or whatever. Like, yeah, like, that's when I was like, all right, I don't know how I feel about trying to like grind this and actually. Yeah, I limped it, you know, 20,000 and there's a trophy

for 500,000. I'm like, oh, man, it's, oh my God. And it's not even, like, it's not even, obviously, like, it would have been if I did it at the time where I'm coming out of the story. I remember all the mechanics and how to really use all this shit. Instead, I'm there. I'm Delson. I haven't fucking been.

There sounds like a plane that's like right on top of my house. Oh, I just heard that. Yeah. It's like a space shuttle just stuck off. That's really loud. I wonder if it's coming up on Mike, but I guess it's passing over you now. Weird. Wait, you heard outside my loss.

Yeah. Yeah, I can, wait, is the apocalypse happening? Yeah, I hear that also. Not normal, right? That, I mean, I'll also hear it. it's getting fainter now yeah yeah if they left here but like what the fuck we're like we're all pretty far from each other yeah we're not close like i guess i'm near kevin we live it that's funny that's very funny that's very funny

that's uh interesting anyways did they launch a spaceship somebody did we we had the endeavor just gave us a fly by um no so yeah and it's like that thing of like, so I'm totally rusty to begin with, let alone to go in there and then be like, it's not even fetch who I'm running, I run around and clean up the open world with. It was then I'm going to go in like, fuck, and it's just like that thing of like, I wasn't in a great game mood yesterday where it's like I, I don't know if this ever happens with you guys. I set a goal, right? You know, I was looking for my 10,000th trophy.

I got it. I'll talk about that in a second. But after I did that, it was like, cool, now the world's my oyster. And I had all these things on there and I started jumping into them. And I jumped into first light and fucked around for like, I don't know, half an hour or 45 five minutes. And it was, I think I'm like, I'm in a bad mood already. Like, I'm just tired and cranky and I don't know what I want to play. So I'm not enjoying this right now. And I don't know if I'll not enjoy it later. So I'll just put it down and come back to it later and see if I'm in the

mood to do it. And then I was like, oh, fuck, day's gone. I'm always talking about trying to clean up trophies on that and see the improvements on that. Start a days gone, jumped into that. Look to the map. I was like, nah, I do not want to do this even. Jump the fuck out of there. It was just, and it's just, and it's just, and it's just, and it's just, and it's I need to look into, because I remember it also being annoying with like combos. Like you have to keep your combo up, to keep the score up, to keep the thing up. And it's just like, I really want to go back to do this. I think that might be part of it too is that both me and you coming back into it fresh.

I think there's something missing in terms of, like, maybe there was a mechanic here that I'm not thinking of that I'm not using correctly. Because I know, like, on the different back buttons, right? There's like, you have like your rocket, rocket move or like your, uh, you like a machine gun and then you have. Or what's depending on the power you have if you're Delson. Yeah. jumping back into it, I was like, all right, I don't remember like the exact use cases for these different things. And then, yeah, running around and remembering that like, oh, yeah, like, it's a, if I hit certain body parts, I can then trap enemies that way. And like, and it was,

and it was the thing of like, so I started with the challenge rooms and I was like, oh, I still have stuff in the open world. I went back to the open world. And it was exactly where I left this game where I was like, yes, fuck, this is fun. Like, I like traversing and running around a living world. Like, I hate being in these cold, stupid VR rooms or whatever, where Augustine's just sending weird villains at me that I don't care about. You know what I mean? there to say they're cheating me. And I don't feel like there's like a good sense of like what's my health. Like am I about to die?

Like they do that games do where you start to see your screen gray out and you lose color. Yeah. And like I feel like they could have communicated that way better. Like it should have been like a meter or something. Because I die and I'm like, really? That was a shot that killed me. Yeah. Some great games have terrible trophy list.

Oh yeah. Five 57. I platinum that game. And there should definitely not be a trophy for getting all nine dresses. That's just annoying as shit. I want to platinum that game so bad And it hit a point that I was like I Because the other guy I've been playing a lot is that

And I just hit a point I'm like I'm not platinum in this I'm just gonna redo the stuff for fun I'm gonna try to do some things I haven't done Play some chapters on hard just to like have that thrill again But like there's no way I'm platinum this And the dress thing is one of those factors for sure Yeah it's that at that point like If a platinum is either insane or busy work

I just kind of want to just check out immediately of no I don't want to do this but also sometimes you don't know how annoying it's going to be until after you finish the game or start the process of it yeah and then you're in the moment of it do and you're doing it and you're like well I've already come this far

like I need to just commit and go through with it now here's the thing I've never called him out publicly for this but Imron like you have all the spirits in Smash brothers and like I have all the spirits and I know more than anyone in the world how much a waste

of time that is. And I've never been like, what the, like, hold on, there's another human being I know that beat classic mode with every single character. What drove you to do that? Imran Khan is in a long-distance relationship. Honestly, that's probably like, you have a lot of time. Those kind of things. And it's, I remember doing it because, like, I just wanted to go through everyone's thing

and, like, one see the little picture at the end of like. Of course. Because, like, there's some cool ones like cloud holding Zelda in one. water and it's like, oh, I get the joke they're going for there. And too, it's just, it's a way to learn the characters. So for me, who wants to, who gets bored playing one character at a time and likes to switch around, that's a good way to get used to everybody. But also it's like, I don't know, that's the gameplay to me is going through with just doing all that. I just, I love it. It's so funny because, again, playing the Tony Hawk games, like back then, I would beat every Tony Hawk game with

every character because that's what got you, the hidden characters and the unlocks and all that stuff. And like, if the platinum for the new Tony Hawk game is tied to doing that, I don't know that I would do it. You know, but it's funny that like with Smash Brothers, I absolutely did. And I don't want to say I hate myself for it. It should have like a thing like a tarnished platinum that's like I don't have time for the rest of this shit. Just give me the easy trophies and I'll do that. They'll give me that separate list and I'll be fine. Yeah.

Save all the hard stuff to the DLC. That's what you do. Just let everybody go up here that way if that's what they want from it. Bless what you've been playing? I'm now 57 hours into Persona 5 Royal. I don't want to sound like a broken record because I've talked about this game on like the last three shows I've been on. But I'm enjoying it.

It's an absolute blast. I'm starting to become Barrett in the sense that like it might become my game of the year by it when I finish it. Like I fucking love it. But yeah, I'm not going to like be late with the point. I'm playing that. I got my Oculus Quest in the mail, so I've also started playing around with that too.

It's been interesting. I know it just came out today, didn't it? Yeah. Yeah, so I might look into that, even though I have it on PlayStation, so I can also play it there, but yeah, I mean, I've been going through the library, just seeing what's there and, like,

what to mess around with. The three main things I messed around with so far on Oculus Quest have been one Thumper, which is a game that like the reason I jumped into it is because I got it free. And so like I was just like, yo, I might as well just play Thumper because I've heard such good things about it. Really fun. It's like an on rails rhythm game where I guess it's akin to amplitude, right? Where like it's on rails, you are basically reacting to like the beat into like the, I guess commands that is giving you.

You're playing as like the small beetle on a rail and then like you have to like hop on these. I don't even know what to call him. It reminds me, honestly, of the Ratchet and clank rail bits. Yeah, yeah. Mixed with you. Yeah, a little bit that. But it's like, like, with the, in VR, it's so, like,

ridiculous thing that you're just like, holy shit, this is so intense. It's kind of scary. Like, I would even add that there's, like, a horror element to it. Yeah, it's super, like, yeah, in terms of, like, the environment that you're playing in it, right? It's kind of weird, where it is, like, you feel like you're in this other world, but it's kind of hellish a bit.

And I played up to the first boss battle, which is kind of weird for this game to have a boss battle, but like, which is like you are, it is like this intense final moment where you're, you're going to this on Rails sequence and you are doing like the main mechanics I've learned so far in the game because I assume they introduce more as you go,

but you can do like a, like a side grind where like you, and that sounds weird to say out loud, but like where you like turn, you like, like, You do a side run. It's like a grind turn, essentially where you have to hold a button and then press whichever way you're turning. And then, like, yeah, you're pressing, let's say, X to the beat.

If this is like a PlayStation controller. And, like, yeah, it was a very intense, very cool experience. Like, I was very into it. Like, the VR aspect of it is really interesting because, like, it's a game that I believe originally came out not in VR. Like, it was just a regular game release. And the thing that, the thing that they kind of adapted for VR, is that you are like you're right down there with the beetle that you're controlling on the rail and you're kind of getting that perspective and it feels way more immersive.

I think there's the other way actually. Was it really? Was it VR first? I think it was if you played both ways. Yeah, here we go. Wikipedia. Thumper is a rhythm game developed by Drulin released in October 2016 on Windows and PlayStation 4 with optional virtual reality support for Oculus, HGVive, and PlayStation VR.

Yeah, that was the thing is I remember it as a PSVR game. And then it came to Switch later. Yeah, I remember there being a Switch version, which I, which while I was thinking that it wasn't on VR first. But yeah, like, it very much is like this cool, like immersive experience playing it that way. And so like if anybody's looking for like a rhythm game, I highly recommend that. And then I try it out Supernatural, which is the the workout game that Greg's been talking about where it is like it's like a monthly subscription, which is discounted right now. I got like an email. And I don't know if that's just like a me thing for my, since I signed up recently.

You get a month free when you sign up regardless if you're a press or anything. Yeah. But there's like, I think it's like $13 a month if you get like the year subscription right now. Oh, I did too. Yeah, I just got an email about it. But that might just be like a deal for me. I don't know. But either way, like I've started the free trial on that.

That's been a, that was a really cool experience to try that out because it is basically just Beat Sabre. But one is 360, which I know Beat Sabre has 360 if you're playing it on Quest. But then, oh, what is this Greg that you're showing me? That's me above you on the leaderboards. That's me above you on the leaderboards. Wow. I mean, well, here's the thing. Here's my excuse.

I don't have enough space to do this 360 thing. Because, like, I'm playing and I'm terrified that I'm going to either punch my or, like, hit my bed. I guess I do got a backyard. I have no way. It's like, that's a new blessing. Imagine, like, looking out the back window and seeing me in the backyard, just, like, filling around.

That said police. You're going to be on next to the word. I live in an apartment complex and we have a shared backyard, and I won't lie to you, I did think about, like, could I get away with going, but like the first floor apartments face out into it. I'm like, nobody needs to be like waking up, open their things and Greg Miller's out there fucking doing squaw. Because you know he's shirtless. Like, you know he do it. Helmet on shirtless outside. I want a video of that. Jen, get on it. Get on it. I can easily give you a let's play. I really do want to like move this bed though across this wall this way.

So I just have more space because I think if I do that, then I can get, get away with it. the Spanish is heavy to move. And so that's why I tried to do it yesterday and I couldn't figure it out. Hey man, you do a few more of these supernatural VR sessions. Maybe you'll be able to move. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

But, like, it was a really cool experience, right? Like, again, like, this is basically just Beat Sabre 360, but the aim is to get you, like, an actual workout. And so it's cool to see, like, the things that they kind of added to make it feel more dynamic in terms of the movements you're making, right? Like, you're doing, like, what's this move right here? Yeah, lunges. Yeah, where you're, like, squatting but sideways.

Yeah. Yeah, you do squatting. Lots of you lunges. They have a whole bunch of stuff like that. Yeah. And you're like trying to stay within like these triangles that they throw at you. And the way they do is really good. I really like the coaches that they add with it.

Like the ones that I've gotten so far, I've been all been very encouraging. And it sounds like I'm talking about a real person that's coaching me. But like, I mean, if I can. I honestly keeps me coming back to it. Because this is week three of me doing Supernatural VR.

Maybe four, but I think it's three since release. And yeah, like I am, And as I've said before, like, right, like I've struggled since a quarantine to find what I want to do to work out because I was enjoying go to the gym and doing Stairmaster because I just felt like it gave me a place to zone out. Look at my phone, read something, play a game. And so not having that, you know, Jen's been, Jen's big on walks and yoga and stuff. And I do all that with her, but it's just not like what I want to do. It's not like I don't get the same satisfaction enjoyment out of it. So getting into this and going through it, yes, it's Beat Saber 360. I think the squats in the triangles add. more but it's also the fact that like the dynamicness of it where it's paying attention to how what you're missing and if you're missing and then giving you coaching tips along the way that both are about that but then also about just where you are in the song actually help in a way I wasn't

expecting is somebody who's like I treat I treat working out at the gym or working out period like masturbation like I'm ashamed of it like you know what I mean I don't want you to talk to me don't look at me while I do it I'm doing this thing so I don't want in real life I don't want a personal trainer there telling me, all right, do more, five more, you know, come on, Greg, do the thing, blah, blah, blah. But something about it in supernatural, my own world and it's the coach going through and talking over it works for me really well, where it is that thing where, you know, I usually do Leanne workouts and she'll be like in the middle of it, right?

Like, you know, I'm guessing they're reading the progressive thing of like how I'm not hitting and it'll be that thing of like, all right, cool, you only have this much longer, you know, I need you to go on. 110% right now on power. Just give me power right now. And then the same thing of like, you know, I really want you to open up your body on these attacks, which sounds silly, but I have noticed when she says that, that I'm not doing that, right? They are very big about, they want big movements and they want like when, you know, this is white and this is the, this is the white saber and this is the black saver. So when a white one comes over there or vice versa,

they want you crisscrossing your body and using your whole body, right, opening up and doing big swings. And they'll come on and say that about opening up. And I will notice, I'll like, oh, I haven't been doing like little wrist movements rather than actually doing it. And they are encouraging of like, you know, my thing with it in the beginning and my first impressions of it were very much like, I don't know, like I like it, but it is still a game. Like I was hoping this is going to be more of a workout and less of beat saver. Whereas beat saver, of course, you know, you can put it in no fail, but you're still losing points or combos or whatever. And at the end of this, you still get the same thing of like how many you actually hit or what your accuracy was

and what your power was. And when I start fucking them up and I start going. the wrong direction of just worrying about that having her chime in and be like it's not about hitting them it's about consistency and like it actually makes me feel when i am winded and i need to take a breath mid-song and just let the song keep going and then she's like all right just get back on track and you get back on track with it it actually works for me in a weird way but i wouldn't think a coach it would for me yeah like hearing them like even like telling you to breathe in certain moments right like i feel like having those commands in the background help help so much uh in a way where like i've i've I've done Beat Sabre as a method to work out before.

And I just find myself kind of being kind of aimless with it of like, I guess I'll play for the next hour until I get worn out. You know, it's just me playing games on X, or playing matches on expert, right? Which is great. But like, it's not really, there's not really any, any purpose to it in that way until, I hope at some point they do add purpose to it because I would love for a workout version of Beat Saber. And I know they release the, the beat fit song.

I think that's what it's called, something like that. But like, that's just one song. I hope they, like, they actually go about, go about intentionally making a mode for that. Because yeah, like going in, whenever I play Beat Sabre with that in mind, usually I just end up with like my biceps being sore and then like maybe that's about it, right? Like I'm maybe I'm not squatting as much because I'm playing levels that don't have the bars. I mean, you have that you have to duck under. And so even then I don't think when I when I duck under them, I'm, I'm, and this is me personally in Beat Sabre. I wouldn't say I'm doing a squat, right? You're gamifying it.

You're like, how do I actually do the thing? Not just like, how do I hurt my body to? Right. And so like in Supernatural, like I'm actually trying to do the right squat. Like I notice every time I go down, I extend my arms. And I think part of that again is that in the beginning when the one usually Leanne is like, all right, cool, we're doing this kind of thing. So let's get warmed up. Like give me a squat. And she does it.

And I mimic her position rather than like beat saber where I'm just like, you know, snaking around stuff. And actually like that that's kind of how ring fit works and that like it makes it, it metaphorizes. I don't know that's a word. It makes a metaphor out of the exercises to make them attacks. So I'm not thinking like, okay, I'm doing like a forward leg push thrust. It says like, okay, you're doing a kick forward to hit this enemy.

Like, okay, I, that level of gamification makes it more interesting to me because it doesn't feel like work as much. Yeah. Aside from Supernatural, I've also been playing Echo Arena, VR, the beta, which has the longest tutorial I think I've ever experienced in the game. You played Kingdom Hearts 2? I have played Kingdom Hearts 2. I played the first seven hours,

the King Hearts 2, and yes, half of that was a tutorial. So you played the tutorial. Yeah. But, yeah, Echo, I've only played maybe like an hour or so of Echo Arena, VR, and like I think I might have just gotten out of the tutorial. But basically it is like an arena game that is kind of analogous to Rocky League a bit where you're in VR and like it's like this futuristic

arena kind of thing and you're able to, you have like, on, you're able to like thrust forward and like thrust backwards and, uh, like fly around in this, in this like low gravity, uh, arena kind of thing. It's basically though, like when it comes down to it, the actual game is like this version of like, like, I don't know if this is a real thing, but like disc, disc soccer or something like that, right? Or like ultimate frisbee where you are basically trying to, uh, get a frisbee and then throw it through a goal. And it's, it's zero gravity and so like you have you have a team of people or you have two teams that are like you know trying

to compete to to either block the disc uh or get the disc and then throw it into the goal um through all the tutorial stuff i did with it seem pretty cool like i can't actually wait to play a match um but yeah like so far like my experience with the oculus quest as a whole has been pretty cool like it's a pretty cool piece of hardware that I was mentioning this on PSLove you because I brought this up in comparison to PSVR right like it's having no wires no cables to kind of be in your way is such a big difference maker like it's it's kind of changed the way I look at it especially like being able to come to it and not have to set anything up not having to like bust out a box or unplug a USB and repug USB and like bust out my move controllers that are buried at the bottom of my my bag over

there like you know being able to just put it on and be be ready to go and It's such a big difference of experience that I've had than I've had from other VR that, you know, I'm super digging it. I'm super into it. And yeah. Dude, that was my thing. I feel like Quest is the most underrated thing to come out in the last three years. It's just so, it just fucking works. And it's like VR we've been talking about now for I feel the past six, seven years.

And it's like, Quest is the thing like, oh, they did it. Like, this is it. This is the thing people should do. And like, kill your app aside, all that stuff. It's like, no, no, you just get this and it's the thing you need. And the interface is easy enough to understand where even the tutorials of learning the interface is fun. And then getting in the store, all of it makes sense. I'm having a great time with my quest as well.

Yeah, and it was this stark comparison after doing so much quest with Supernatural for the past few weeks to then, like I was mentioning earlier, I was looking for my 10,000th trophy and trying to make it into something that would be important or whatever. right and finally noticed that it lined up that i only needed 14 more trophies in island time VR which is the game where i played a crab and i was like that's what better what more greg miller 10,000s trophy is there than the platinum in the game i love it voice actor for and so after playing so much quest having to bust out my vr my PlayStation VR which i of course still love but you know all right i have the pro but i don't have the PSVR version two so i i don't want to have it plugged in constantly to the box and just leave it there so it's like digging out the plug into the PS4, cables out, move the table, get down, sit down.

I start playing the game. And I'm moving around on the island and I would start to drift and have to recenter. And then I'd get the cord and the headphone cords, like, caught on my leg and like, yank out for more power. And then tuck it into my waistband and like get back to the game. It was just like, fuck. And then it's the opposite in the morning with Quest where I get up in personally, because I have a small place too, push the kitchen table to the side, put it on. It's like, okay, here's the boundaries play. and you're right back into it, whereas like, you know, here it was the whole production

and putting it down and then pushing it all over. And then it's like, well, I think I'm going to play Predator tomorrow night first. So disconnect it, reconnect it the right way. So I'm just getting a straight feed to the TV or whatever. That boundary thing is really cool, too. It's amazing. Like, yeah, no, that's the thing too. I mentioned at the beginning, right?

Like, I don't have much space for supernatural. And so, like, it's that, that's kind of a difficult thing to manage. But being able to set that boundary, right? And it being like super simple and super cool. So like, oh, yeah, like this is this is the space that I have. So that whenever I reach too far, the game notifies me, they're, you're hitting a wall right now. Like, you know, super cool, super useful thing that, you know,

is actually letting me play supernatural to the extent that I can in my room. So, guys, I want to get into the topic of the show. That's, that is. Originally, the original kind of one sentence pitch was, what's the value of the $60 game? Now, the broader topic is, what should games cost? But who wants to start here? Give an idea here of what is the value of a $60 game?

$60. Yeah, I'm going to say $59.99 then, right? Plus tax. I mean, it's a weird question. I mean, interested to hear the conversations that come out of it, let alone your, yeah, I know your question, but like your impetus behind it, right? Because I think it's more, you started before that of, you know, what is the value of a $6 game, but like what should games cost?

I think games should cost what they need to cost. You know what I mean? And I know that's a stupid, it sounds stupid and philosophical or whatever, but it's like, games need, this is a business. And I wish, you know, that games were free and everything was available to go get right away and, you know, we could all have free stuff. But I think there is this thing of there's a strata. I think, you know, as digital distribution takes over, we're starting to see more and

more people play around with what games can cost and what that means. You know, I think for a while when you were $9.99 or below or $14.99 and below, you were it considered to be a budget game, right? There's still the stigma of, oh, the new rationing clanks coming out. It's only 3999. Oh, well, it's not a full ratchet clank game then. And then we got it and it was a full ration and clank game. Like, we're breaking down those walls, but I still think games should be moving to a part

where they're taking care of, obviously publishers who are, you know, paying to get the game made, but the developers who are making the game, right? And like trying to pay that forward and reward everybody for that and make it so this is profitable for everyone and makes sense for everybody because the amount of enjoyment I get out of a game. I hate to think that someone somewhere in that line, which is inevitable, is getting screwed over. So let me present this then in a different way of I agree with you completely, but let's look at you. No, I'm talking about, you know, TonyaS Pro Skater a lot.

Like Tony Hawk 1 and 2 now are coming out at $40 for this package. When Tony Hawk H.D came out last gen and granted, it wasn't a great game. it wasn't $40. It was a digital download, you know, cheaper. I think it was it was between 15 and 20 when it came out. And then we look at the Nintendo side of things. And it's like, cool. Nintendo has released Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze on the Wii

for $50 when it first launched. And then when it came out on the switch, it was $60 years later. And they added funky mode. but like realistically no one is paying extra for that yeah right so where does that kind of you know come into play when you bring up the ratchet and clank game where it's like cool this is a 40 game that is triple a all things considered and granted it is also a remake so it's like there is like a lot of weird factors that come into this of like what final fantasy 7 is also a remake you know what I mean

with as many changes as Ratchen Clank had from the original game and so was Shadow of the Colossus and that was I believe $40 as well the PS4 version and that's that's an interesting thing because I feel like mentally as we're talking

about all these things right I kind of make the jumps of all right well Final Fantasy 7 remake is like this 30 hour RPG 30 to 40 hour RPG and it's it's even though it's a remake is still a totally brand new thing And that then turns into the conversation of, well, it's just part one of the first game.

And I know that turns into like this huge rabbit hole, right? But then we talk about rationing clank. I'm then like, all right, well, yeah, that is a remake. But I also would have bought that game for $60. And it does feel brand new in a lot of ways. But at the same time, like, the game is only like what, like 10 hours long and all these things. And then we jump to the Shadow Colossus. My brain is like, well, that game is basically the same game as the original Shadow Colosses,

except the assets are just redone. and like all of that stuff when it comes down to it is very arbitrary like I think this is this conversation is interesting because like for me when you first ask the question my mind immediately jumped to like the the other side of it of like dude if they if they charged $100 for Lassas part two or like $100 for cyberpunk I probably pay that right like people will throw a fit but I think people will still pay that pay that price for those games not trying to give anybody any ideas um and yeah when we rewind and come back to the question of like what's the value of a $60 game like I feel like at a certain point it it's kind of an arbitrary number that we've all kind of agreed to right like it's a it's a weird number that we kind of all just kind of held hands on and been like all right we this is this is what you can get this is the most you can charge for a video game that you feel like you can get away away with this for um which is an interesting thing yeah yeah yeah I mean

I mean, it's crazy because like talking about this now, like I remember we were going to Pratch and Clank, like before that came out, there was a lot of discussion around that because that was kind of an interesting breakthrough, not that it was the first one to ever do it, but in my mind, that was the first game that kind of chose that price point that was a bigger title because normally it'd be things if they were $40, it was like, oh, it's a lesser than. Like, we understand what this is. But really $40 was like a not common kind of price point. We'd hit down to the 20, the 15, the tens for smaller games, and it was 60 for the bigger ones.

In the old generations, there were games that were over traditional MSRP for things, where we were, you know, N64 days hitting up to the $60, $80 games for traditionally in 64, if I remember correctly, with like $40 prices and like Genesis stuff. Whenever they had a new microchip, it tended to raise the price quite a bit. Yeah. But now that we've kind of like settled out a bit where it's like, okay, cool, a PS4 game or Xbox one game costs $60, that $40 price point was the weird,

interesting middle ground that made Ratchet such a standout. And I feel like that started something that we don't talk about often, but now that we're years ahead of it, we look back and it's like, cool, the Crash Bandicoot trilogy that came out, that was also 40. And a lot of these remake trilogies or whatever they are

come out at that $40 price point and do very well. And people aren't complaining that they are hitting that that price point but what we haven't seen is that other end of the conversation that I feel when we were first having the ratchet talk of oh ratchet's 40 I'd pay a hundred for which or three that's not happening you know we're not seeing the over 60 games 60 bucks is the current threshold because that's what they think those games can sell at I have no doubt that the last of us costs more than like an ASP of 60 bucks would bear out necessarily. But

they're not going to put pros it above that because they don't think they can sell it. In the remake discussion of like Ratchet and all that jazz, Zinoblade comes out next month, which probably had less work done to it than Ratchet and Clank or Shadow the Colossus. But it's going to be a $60 game because that's what Nintendo thinks they can sell it at.

They don't think they're going to sell significantly more copies at lower $40.40 price point, so they're not going to do that. The market kind of dictates where they go for it and the market has that current cap at $60. So the way thing there, though, with Nintendo specifically, is growing up as a, I would say more so a 2000s gamer than even a 90s gamer because that's when I was a teenager and able to buy games and make my own choices with stuff, Nintendo was always cheaper. It was always like, oh, we're getting the handheld games for $30. We're getting the Nintendo games for 50. And then when Xbox and PlayStation made the move to 60,

there was still a while when Nintendo was at that $50 level. And I feel like there was then a shift, especially now that we're at the, the switch, which is more expensive than Wii U games were. Even if they are the exact same game being ported. And it's not just Donkey Kong that I'm using an example of, but it is like Pokemon, let's go Pikachu and Evie, right?

like a remake of a game that was a Game Boy game in 1998 that they're selling for $60. You know, and it's like that's kind of the weird thing where I feel like Nintendo, it's whatever the market can handle, but, and they're handling it, right? Like people are buying these games.

And Donkey Kong, Tropical Freeze sold more on Switch than it sold on Wii U. So it's like that they're seeing the proofs in the pudding there for, of course, why would we not do that and not put it out? this rate because we're selling it that way. But I feel like Nintendo in a lot of ways are making decisions and doing things that are backwards compared to what we're seeing Microsoft and

Sony do. Every party had that thing where like they try to hold a line of a cheaper thing and then eventually start doing the more. Like when Sony first started out, places of first party games were I think $40. And then when Microsoft, when the 360 came around, they said, okay, every third party can. price your games whenever they want. They can be 60 bucks. Xbox game studios will only do 50. And then that lasted for like a year, I think. I think Gears of War, they're like,

oh, no, that's epic. So that's not quite count, even though we're publishing it. So they went to 60 after that and just no one really cared or no risk. My Nintendo eventually did the same thing of like they did the six hour price point and now they're never going to go back. They'll never go lower. Like maybe for certain games, but by and large, a retail release is expecting to be 60 bucks. And doesn't this all come down to arithmetic at some point? Like I feel like we, I've seen the conversation get so hung up on,

well, it's a remake of an old game that, you know, blah, like that still doesn't mean there's not a team working on it, that making assets that are doing the thing. Granted, I'm playing fast and loose with remake,

so it's different for many of them, but it is coming up with new quest doing whatever. It is planning out the old quest and modernizing them, stuff like that. Even I think Donkey Kong, right, Tropical Fugies, is the one we're talking about, right,

from being ported over and, you know, costing more, having a little bit more. There still is, first off, a team that's porting it over and making it work and adding the new content. But beyond that, I'm sure Nintendo didn't make their money back on the first one. So there is this thing of like, even though it seems like they're just repackaging the same thing and it wouldn't cost that much, if you're already in a negative on one game,

you're trying to make up that difference. Yeah, that's the hidden thing no one really talks about is that $60 is actually probably too low. That's why we're currently like, this kind of came from the 360 area, but it's a much bigger issue now, that every game has to be a big hit because they need to sell on volume. And

60 bucks is, honestly, for the development costs we're at, is too low for what that, to recoup cost necessarily, much less make a profit. I expect, like, most people don't want to talk about that because 60 bucks is still a lot for a personal consumer to

spend, especially when games come out with the volume that they do. But honestly, again, we bring up the last of us and last of us part two as examples. Those games are going to sell 15 million copies, so they're fine being 60 bucks. If you're going to sell like 100,000 copies, being 60 bucks, and if you have like a really expensive development is actually probably pretty low, it's probably going to result in a negative revenue or return on investment.

And this goes back a bit, I think, to, if you remember, Tim, 2015, when we had Peter Moore on the stage at E3 talking about EA, and it was right after they announced unraveled, right? And he was very much like, listen, we're not going to make money unraveled. We're putting on unraveled because we believe in it. We want to support developers of that size and of that caliber. We know FIFA and Madden are going to make the money, right? For a first party, right, or, you know, a company that wide, you're dealing with the same things. And it's why, like, Sony's financials they just released, right?

We're talking about, well, there was no God of War or Spider-Man. That's why we're down year-on-year. Like, I think that is the same argument of you have, like Imron's talking about, last of us is going to come out, sell a gillian copies and make a lot of money. make way more, hopefully make way more than it cost to do whatever. But that's not just now a profit on the board that means that's going to be profit for PlayStation. It does mean when they put out medieval and that doesn't come anywhere near making back the amount of money, that negative then gets added to the positive of last of us and we start bringing down

those numbers. And those are the margins you're working with of trying to be in the black. So you have these big hits like Amaran's talking about that let you have chances, but you're playing with the scale and like how much did that development cost and then equate that game should cost. that much. It's funny bringing that up because like that's true and I'm playing devil's advocate here a little bit just to kind of make this an interesting conversation but it's like did medieval need to happen? Because I would argue medieval remake was a total response to the success

that that everyone saw with crash coming back and a lot of these retro games coming back and selling gangbusters right? And it feels like okay cool saying that you know the that last of us whatever need to happen in order for medieval to happen. It's kind of like well that shouldn't I mean, some ways it's a go with the easy answer to make the money to fund the bigger and better things. Like with Tropical Freeze, I think is the most interesting example in the last five years. And I guess at this point it might be more than five years that comes into all of this in terms of the price of a game because it is a 2D platformer. It's made by the guys that everyone wanted to make Metroid Prime, but they made a sequel to Donkey Kong country. And it's a 2D platformer.

is undeniably one of the best 2D platformers of all time. Critics love it. Everyone that's played it loves this game. But then it came out at $50. And it is a top selling Wii U game. Like I'm looking at now. It's at 2 million units sold, which for a console that only sold.

A six, that sold like 12 million total. Like I think last I saw I was like 13, but it's like, dude, look at the attachment rate on that. Like that's a success, right? So it's like looking at that for them to then take that game and sell it for more money on the next console and it worked for them it totally

worked for them they made the money back and honestly this is a game that should be played by more people than have you even played it now but it's it's just interesting to look at how it all works because we're talking about what's the value of a remake or or whatever but it's I don't know is dokey con country tropical freeze worth $60 I mean yeah like I mean I think for on the Nintendo side of things too. I think the conversation gets interesting because for them, a lot of it comes down to them preserving their IPs and preserving the value of what they own. I imagine that a lot of their games can come down in price as time goes on, but as we see, like, you know, years past after a game is released and you check and those games are still

$60, those games are still full price. And what that comes down to is that Nintendo doesn't want to devalue what they have because they know for a fact if we can keep in the minds of the people the fact that Mario stays $60 and the fact that Donkey Kong and Nintendo games stay at that high price. One, like, you don't have people that are like, I'm going to wait to get this on sale. But then also, like, I think you, you, you kind of build that, um, that like esteem. Like, you kind of, you kind of build that value within, within your IPs for people to go like, oh yeah, this is the best of the best. Like, these, these games don't go on sale because people will buy these regardless. People are, people are clamoring for these. And yeah,

these are, this is the best of what this console has to offer. And so yeah, when it comes to Nintendo, I feel like that conversation gets very interesting in a way where like going back to like the, the medieval thing, right, in certain games kind of justifying the existence of other games. I think like medieval is a very interesting example because like I don't necessarily see the strategy behind that being similar to the strategy behind Crash Bandicoot, like at least, at least as far as like, you know, seeing the success of Insane trilogy and trying to replicate it, right? I think for on the medieval side, it is more so like,

hey, what if we can just throw shit at a wall and see if this works, right? Like, what if, like, we're not calling medieval shit, but like, what if we can, what if we put out a remake of medieval and see if this sticks with people, right? Like, there's going to be a small audience that's there, but what if, like, we're able to get a new audience with it at the same time? And what if this is able to spawn a thing? I think at that point where they did not think that at all. I feel like, I feel like at a certain point, though, like, it is, it is kind of researching development. Like it is like, hey, we have last of us. We have console sales, right?

We have all these things that are justifying the bottom line that are getting us money. And then with that, we can do weird projects, right? Like we can do concrete genie. We can fund, I don't know, man. We can fund blood and truth, which I guess is more so meant to sell VR as a thing. Those make sense, though. I mean, concrete genie, I feel like it's more of a unique thing where it's like, you all didn't have to do that.

Like, it's really cool that you did. And I know people love concrete genie, but I feel like when you look at the books and you look at concrete genie and medieval and i guess we might disagree on on the purpose of medieval but i feel like these are obscure projects that are like one like meant to just just enhance the portfolio a bit right like add that diversity but at the same time like see if it sticks see if this if this gets an audience because it's new and different and medieval of what playstation is trying to do in different ways right like we talk about all time tim's wearing it like PlayStation is trying in the same way Nintendo has PlayStation is always trying as of late to remind us that,

hey, we've been around forever. We've been on a long time. You have nostalgia for us. There is a love for PlayStation, whether you know it or not. And so if we're going to do a throwback jacket, a special edition, bring back a game like medieval that, again, I was never a fan of, but remember distinctly playing at a demo station being one of the first PlayStation

things I ever really fucked around with that. I want to say like a Sears or a service. What was those two? What was the department store that was something with service? I think you're thinking, you might be thinking of Sears. Because Sears, I believe,

had video. No, there's like inside service or something like that. Service and something, it doesn't matter. God, that's going to drive me crazy. I'll check the YouTube chat if you're watching.

Anyways, but it's like that thing of like, that is a touchstone. And so it's back to, all right, let's go and work with this developer, partner with them. They say they can make this game cheap,

in quotes. We'll sell medieval for 30 bucks. It'll, you know, hopefully turn heads as a game, people remember. Since, you know, the Crash Bandicoat stuff happened and, you know, we've seen this influx and nostalgia of that, people have not a lot, but people have been saying medieval. So it is a way to pay it for and be like, look, we do have a stable of games and history and everything else there.

Concrete Genie, on the other hand, is, hey, we are still the PlayStation people remember from the PS3 and maybe that you fell in love with then or, you know, into the early days of the PS4 that does weird shit. Like, this is a weird art piece. And as we continue to push this, you know, now, PlayStation Studios thing, right? Of like, this is what we do. We make games that are stories, that are single player that touch you. Like, we're going to still do that.

Like, you know, in the same way, you look at Concord Genie, and I guess this is an apples to apples because obviously they're different caliber of games, even though I adore Concrete Jeannie. You look in Congri Jeannie and say, well, it doesn't need to exist. You can say the same thing about Journey. Journey doesn't need to exist, but it did, and it touched a lot of people and became a defining PSN game and a defining PlayStation character. Well, there's like lots of recent games.

get made, right? Like, Pixel Lopez probably made Concrete Genie because Sony is trying to make them into a bigger studio. They moved on to the actual Santa Monica, the Redwood City site. Like, their late-only development studio there. I imagine Concrete Genie is, let's, they're hiring up, let's train these people on a project, and let's make some money off the thing they're training on.

That's basically the reason ZenoBlade exists is that Monolith Soft has made a bunch of new hires. Might as well get them working on something, so when they actually do work in an original game, they have an experience doing stuff. It's, Going back to the thing Tim was talking about with certain games having to be priced lower to justify the kind of game they are like Donkey Hong was. Yoko Taro has this quote once about how you could make the best game ever that lasts five minutes long, but you can't sell it for 60 bucks if it's five minutes long.

It could be the best five minutes of all time, but it can't be sold for 60 bucks. I think that's a problem a lot of games run into. Sonic Generation is a very good example, and I think, bless you know what I'm talking about, about that game the actual levels are amazing however there's like and between every level you have to do some real bullshit to get through to the next level of what you want to play and that's because the game is not it's not a long game so but they have to justify it somehow and they've been doing that since unleashed because like you have to do so many art assets for those games that that you just blow right past and never really see but you have to make the games feel longer otherwise you can't

sell them for 60 bucks if you can't sell them for 60 bucks if you can't sell them for 60 bucks then what's the point? Like Star Fox is another game that has that same problem of, well, the genre of people want this game in can't be sold for 60. And if we can't go for 60, then there's no point in actually making it. I'd rather them not make it then. But that's just me. If they make five Sonic games and one of them is all right, I'm down for it. But it's back to what we're talking about then of this argument of what's a game worth. And then not only is it what it's worth, what is it worth on that platform? What is it worth through the lens of that platform, right?

And I go back to Roundguard, right? That a peggle clone that is an RPG and does it, or not RPG, you know, Rogue, like that Tim and I played a lot and enjoy. And I think I liked more than he did. You know, I played it initially on PlayStation or I actually downloaded it on my Apple Arcade, then when it came to PlayStation, played it on PS, I Love You, right? But you're talking about Apple Arcade, a subscription buffet, right, for, it's five bucks a month six bucks a month i forget which one five it's five yeah five bucks a month

versus twenty dollars straight up on playstation on switch even right now you know what i mean like where what is the arithmetic math there how does that work is it that i mean as a developer as a publisher you must be looking at it being like well what can we do on what platforms and how does that make sense and where was it built for and how do you bring it over you know florence another great fantastic game that i adore on mobile right a 45 minute experience I forget how much was and then it was $3.00. I think that's $2.99.

Do you know it is super worth it? At least when I first bought it. I don't know what it is nowadays. But yeah, no, I mean, bringing in mobile to this, like I really think changes the game in terms of how fucked and warped the prices are. And I feel like Apple Arcades came in to kind of help that in many ways. I've went back to Roundguard a lot, actually,

just to kind of check in and, you know, keep playing because I have the service. And there is that value just that's inherent there. Once you have it, you're like, oh, you know what? I did enjoy this enough to come back to it. And like, you know, Pagel Blast, one of my favorite games of all time, despite his bullshit-ass micro transactions and mobile garbage. They took every Pagel game off of the app store. So that's all I had to go back to.

And slowly but surely, I'm trying to three-star every single level in it. I would have gladly paid a lot more money than would have been traditionally okay. for that type of game to have it forever. Like, I would pay $50 to have Pagoblasts just be open to me to never see an ad again. But they don't give you that option, you know, and like that's where Apple Arcade kind of came in to,

to fix those problems. But Apple Arcade is never going to be a mainstream thing. Like, that's just a reality of all this. And I feel like until we start seeing that on the console side of stuff, I think GamePass is a great example of where it could go. But we're a couple steps away from. from that being a, you know, justification for the dollar signs.

And I think that Halo Infinite could be a huge kickdown of the door, or it could be a perfect, like, warning of guys, this is what this is always going to be now. And Gears 5, so looking at Xbox the last couple games, right? We have Ori, we have Gears 5. We have the Forks of Games. We have a bleeding edge. It's like, there's, like, varying quality there.

and I think in many ways it's like oh shit they're making real good games I think or he's a great example of like that's a fucking good game but it's like how many more of those are we going to get crackdown is a very good example of the kind of game made for a game pass of that game probably not worth 60 bucks

honestly like I'm sure that game is a decent amount of fun but if you had to decide between let's say crackdown came out last year right no uh maybe yeah I think so Now I think about it. You would just decide between

like that game and let's say Red Dead Red Dead Redemption to God of war, something like that. They're both $60. You're usually, you're probably going to pick one of the bigger AAA games. So for a game pass, that kind of game makes sense

because it doesn't feel like $60 even though if you played it for three months, you were essentially playing $60 with crackdown three. Hmm. Interesting. And that's a valid point where it's like, it adds up over time. Like these are, there is money attack.

to GamePass. It's not free. But even then, it's like, it's unfortunate to think that, oh, yeah, crackdown's a Game Pass game. Like, I hope we don't hit that point where that's, like, I hope Halo isn't it, raises that bar. Because Gears 5, to me, raised that bar. Gears 5 also just didn't hit on the level that it made mainstream success where people associate it with like, dude, no, no, no, no, you need to get Game Pass for this.

Like, it's worth getting it just for this thing. So let's have a, like a thought experiment for a moment. Okay. Days Gone sold really, really well. do you think that if there were a place for an equivalent to game pass and Days Gone launched on it, that that would, the downloads would out so, I'll paste the people who buy it.

Because that to me feels like the kind of game that a game pass style thing is meant for. So the question is if it was, if there was a PlayStation Game Pass, Days Gone was on it, would more people have played Days Gone than did buying it? Yes. Yes, I do. Yeah.

Yeah. Especially you with the PlayStation Plus number. they just released, right? Well, I guess I'm sorry, I'm saying in my world, PlayStation Plus just became PlayStation Game Passed. Yeah. But yeah. Now, though, like, it's still like a super popular thing, which is like a similar kind of,

which is more of a comparable thing. And yeah, like, if you take the numbers there and apply that to some sort of PlayStation Game Pass, then, yeah, I think you would definitely see Days Gone get more players. But I think that, like, that's kind of why Sony doesn't like that model. Is because if you did do that, you did expect the game like Days Gone to be on Game Pass, and not a $60 game that's sold on its own, that it wouldn't have done those good numbers. They have a very consistent...

Their current model is just the complete opposite of Microsoft. They want to sell those $60 games. Microsoft is currently going in a different direction. I kind of wonder if this is going to know with the HILS design as well. Of like, this is a little different. This is not meant to be a thing you buy once and that's it.

It is meant to keep you hooked on and not meant to... We're not going to break the bank on every individual game. We're going to break the bank spreading across. So I like it is interesting to watch those two dynamics at work now. Yeah. The, sorry, I was going to say like the game pass game thing is interesting because when I, for me,

when I think of Game Pass, right, I do think of, I think of Microsoft first party games, but then I also think of Streets of Rage 4 and then also Outer Wilds and, um, void bastards, which I, I, I just played. And I, like, I don't love void bastards, but I know a lot of, of people there people out there do um when we're talking about like like the value of game pass and like the value of like the service and what Microsoft wants from it i feel like third party games are almost doing is third party in like really unique really cool indies are doing almost as much for it as like the first party uh Xbox games right like I don't know if i don't know if i'm at the place yet

where I look at crackdown and uh I'm trying to think of like another like kind of flop on the Xbox side but like when I look at crackdown, I don't necessarily think Bleeding edge. Right. Or Bleeding Edge, right? I guess Bleeding Edge would probably be actually a more, a more clear example, right?

Because like, Crackdown, I just look at it as like, oh yeah, this game came out and it kind of flopped. Bleeding Edge, I do look at as a game that I kind of associate more with the service. But at the same time, I also do look at it as a game that kind of came out and kind of just didn't have the impact. Like,

I don't necessarily, that doesn't necessarily affect how I look at game pass and the value of games. with it with it because like you still have the big xbox first party games and you still have like halo infinite coming out for it soon and then you also still have your experiences like streets of rage four which i do look at more so as like the game pass games i ask you guys on patreon dot com slash kind of funny games to write in and give your thoughts on what a sixty dollar game is worth anakin jm t writes in and says to me a sixty dollar game is something i

really want to play and it's not something I will forget about in a day or two. I'll never forget picking up my midnight copy of the Medal of Honor 2010 reboot, thinking I would play it for a couple hours before going to bed, only to have the game done by 430. Multiplayer wasn't great, so essentially I was done with the game and forgot about it the next day. Nowadays, a game needs to mean more to me to justify the $60 price tag. This is why Resident Evil 3 will be a purchase when it goes on sale. The Last of Us Part 2 will be day one. Last of Us, even if I finish it in a day, will last fall, far longer in my mind than RE3. And that's a great way of putting it.

It's like how, not how long it takes you to play at how much mind share it takes, right? Because even when we're just talking about Florence, thinking back on Florence, immediately like that fucking soundtrack is in my head. And I'm thinking back through it. And I was looking at, you know, it's a five bucks or whatever on Switch or $599 on Switch and $599 on Steam.

There's a discount right now on Switch, but then $2.99 on iOS, right? And granted, we're talking about a difference of $2. there or whatever but like that is a game that yes i paid you know for on iphone so i paid three bucks i guess for it but if i had paid ten dollars for that 15 dollars for that and still only gotten 45 minutes out of it i wouldn't be i wouldn't be complaining like i would i still think so fondly of that game that i bought the vinyl and don't even listen to vinals that much you know what i mean like that's a great way of putting it of how much how much you think about it the same thing with

gone home right a game that i fuck is what two hours long an hour and a half i forget now and i talked about four years now of how much that being touched me. It's interesting because him bringing up RE3 and I know in our review we all kind of talked about this in different ways and had different opinions on it. But I kind of feel like I would be down to pay $60 for RE3 for what it was because I enjoy the type of game it is and the level of production that they put into it and how like, Titan Experience and more so like the presentation of it all. It's like there's money there where I'm like I would be down to pay $60 for RE3 remake more than I'd be down to pay $60 for Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze with Funky Mode. It's like this was such a different style and one's a port, one's a remake, but remake, remake, remaster, like all this stuff.

It's like we start adding all these different terms for similar things. And I just feel like there is a level of, it is not just they took RE3 and put it on a new console. Should the game have had more and is it worth $60 compared to? other $60 games. No, definitely not. And that's kind of where this gets really interesting is there's not a higher price point.

It's like, I kind of look at RE3 and I'm like, yeah, that would be worth 60 if last of us has worked 100. You know? It's so weird because like, you know, RE3,

right, I didn't think about that until just now is, yeah, like a $60 game. And I was just looking this up a moment ago, right? One of my favorite games ever is The Witness, which came out for 40 bucks.

And I played that game. for probably like 20 something hours and I know there's people out there that I probably played it for up to 40 hours because that game kind of keeps going and going and if we're talking about mind share like the witness takes up way more mind share for me and we're talking about like you know the amount of enjoyment I got out of the game the witness the amount of time the witness is still a $40 game and what that kind of comes down to is probably like just how much money was spent on it um like the witness is a beautiful game but like it's still like an indie it's it's still what you would you would refer to as like an independent game and it's it's it's still what you would you would refer to as like an independent game and especially compared to Resident Evil 3, which is like, like as much as I have issues with Resident Evil 3, like the production value is there in terms of like the assets and the set pieces and all these things.

It's like a weird thing for me to grapple with. It is. I'm about value in that sort of way. It's a weird thing when you see where the $60 goes. But then that's where it comes down to is it worth it? But I feel like that only comes into play in comparison to other things.

I would rather, spend the $60 on the witness, though, which is, which is my thing. Like, I, I, I feel like I'd much rather budget. And I know this isn't how it works. And so it's almost like a stupid thing to say, but I'd rather budget be allocated to making a better game than making up a prettier game. Do you remember when, like, pretty? It's about like supporting that single player, like narrative focused game.

And those are going to cost more. There's also Hellblade, though, which is like a similar thing. Like, like, Hellblade, I'd say in length is probably similar to, to RE3. And again, like, that game takes up more mindshare. That game, I would say is a better design thing. That game has a more meaningful story. But that game came out for, like, I want to say, like, $30 or something like that. Which I, like, I think you can still make those, like, meaningful, like, narrative single player games for a cheaper price.

But the, I don't know, man, the way that, like, I feel like with a lot of $60, like, mainstream games, you get that price kind of like, or you get that budget kind of. kind of watered down in certain ways. Like, R.A.3 would be my, like, my main example of that of, like, yeah, this game, kind of exists just to exist for me. Like, I know RE3, people love R3 as a game, and there are fans of that, and that game definitely exists as something special for them. But outside of that, like, I feel like that game, when we're talking about price, definitely kind of, kind of doesn't live up to that.

It's funny, because I feel like what you just said kind of really encapsulates everything we just talked about in the last hour, where it's like, it's what you can, can you get away with? Because I feel like Hellblade couldn't get away with $60. But at $30, it was a success. And people look at it as like, oh my God, look what they did.

Whereas like Capcom and Nintendo can get away with kind of pricing things at a higher point. And they'll still work. Those still success. People are going to play the Nintendo game. They're going to play the Resident Evil game. So it's like it is weird that the value there kind of, I feel like coming out a cheaper price point

can actually enhance the value of the game. in a way than even if you're putting out higher to justify the cost of it being so much higher production value. Yeah. I mean, the XPLA games were like there was a big controversy of them being more expensive than $15. Like there was a big thing when Castle Crashers was about to come out.

Like, oh my God, it might be 20. That's insane. It's like, no, now, now if a game is like less than 20 bucks, I'm like, why? Yeah. Yeah. I'm playing Huntdown right now. Like, I'm playing Huntdown right now on PlayStation,

which is like this 2D Contra game. And it was like 20 bucks. And like I looked at it. I looked at that and I was like, yeah, I can see that. Like that makes sense. If it's a good game, yeah, like 20 bucks sounds good. This has been the kind of funny games cast. We're about to get into the Patreon exclusive post show where we're going to read many more of your responses on patreon.com.

slash kind of funny games. And letting us, letting you know our thoughts on those. Thank you for joining us this week. We will be back soon. Until then. Love you.