Kitbag Conversations - Episode 15: On Culture and Failed States

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

This week we are joined by Ahmed Hassan, the CEO and founder of Grey Dynamics (@greydynamics) , a London based private intelligence organization with accreditations from the European Union, the Government of the United Kingdom, and several other national level organizations. This week we speak about: - Ahmed's background as a Somali refugee, financial expert and intelligence professional - Background regarding failed states in Africa - and the cultural overlap between  nations  You can view his work at https://greydynamics.com/

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the show. This week, I'm joined by Amin Hassan, the CEO and founder of Great Dynamics, a London-based private intelligence organization. And I'm very interested to see what we have to talk about this week because there's a lot going on. So Amin, how are you? I'm very good, man. How are you?

I'm pretty good myself. Good. Yeah, so as thank you for introduction, my name is Ahmed Hassan. I run Great Dynamics based in London, found it in 2017, but honestly, really started to get going end of 2018, beginning of 2019. I am Dutch, but the company Great Dynamics is based in London, but me, myself, right now, I'm based in Stockholm, Sweden. I know it doesn't really make that much sense, but this was pretty much the only place during

COVID that was not under lockdown. At the time, my girlfriend, my wife, lived here. So I was traveling back and forth from London to Stockholm and kind of stuck around here. And yeah, I'm here right now. And yeah, before Great Dynamics, I was a contractor in intelligence, mainly worked in East Africa, Somalia, Kenya, Tasmania, Ethiopia, like with some outings into Mali, Niger, Chad, mainly East Africa. And before that, I worked in CT in counterterrorism as a human intelligence practitioner and mainly

in Somalia and Kenya. And yeah, did that for five, six years. And before that, I was in finance, which seems like a lifetime ago now, but got into finance just as the financial crisis happened in 27, 28. So when that happened, got a little bit disillusioned with the whole finance world and banking in general. What do you mean disillusioned? Was it just like a flash in a bang or was it the whole 2008 crash that really made you

want to step away? Well, just to give you, this is the example that I guess from people when they ask about this. In 2006, I was still in school, I think it was my last year and 2006, I was already working for a financial institution in Germany and mainly in large scale real estate securitization. And I was responsible for finding projects for overseas investors and trying to like bundle them all together and make them interesting for other investors, basically. And where I was, at the time, a big part of my salary was based on commissions and bonuses.

So I remember in a good year, I would do, sorry about the ambulance background if you heard that, but I would do like anywhere between eight and 12 transactions per year. And I was still very young and early in industry. And then in 2007, 2008, beginning of eight, actually 2008, I did one transaction the whole year. So that's not sure after that you were ready to leave. Yeah. And just, you know, it got really cutthroat and people that you thought were your friends

were not your friends and why I stepped out and I just like wandered pretty much. I started traveling and I traveled for around a year, I think I traveled to 28 countries. And many of them in Africa. And for people wondering, the reason for that is I was born in Somalia and we fled the country during the start of the Civil War, pre the whole Black Hawk down Fiasco 1991. And that's a whole interesting story on itself, but we traveled to, at the time, I was living and I know this sounds super bizarre, but I was living in Iran and my parents were living in Somalia and they came to pick me up in Iran.

I was supposed to go to Canada where we had family, but we had a layover in the Netherlands in Amsterdam. And when we got off the airplane, the Dutch authorities like walked up to us and basically my mom at the time was six months pregnant, you're not allowed to fly if you're six months pregnant. I don't know how they got it. They started on the plane in the first place, but because everybody's wearing like big black robes in Iran women are at the time.

My mom was able to hide at the time, my sister, but in Amsterdam they said, hey, we know who you are and you need to have your kid here and it's possible to do so. And my parents decided, my father wasn't there, he went back to Somalia to get as many family members out as possible and my father was part of the government at the time and he was the head of counterintelligence, which I think maybe inspired the direction that I went in later in life. So that time, 1991 was, let's say 1989, 88 was the last time I saw Somalia and before I went back in 2010.

So that whole period I grew up in the Netherlands, went to school, had an amazing childhood there and I ended back and obviously where your roots are, I think for a lot of people, I have a lot of sympathy for people with refugee backgrounds because I can empathize and probably also on one of the other reasons why I'm interested in conflict and understanding where these things go, but I ended up in Somalia and Kenya first and my father at the time was rebuilding the Somali police after 25 years of Somalia being a failed state. So got an opportunity to go back to see things and to experience and I was kind of like roped into this murky world of intelligence and the rest kind of history, I mean you can go

into it if you want to, but I did that for a good number of years and private sector and then in 2016 I moved to London and went back to school because really I wanted to become a better writer and I saw myself much more as an analyst than somebody who was out there collecting and so that was for me, I don't know the best way to explain that, but I think you know this, but yeah, I liked the writing aspect, I love research, I love reading and so I kind of like rolled into a job that was not my first choice, but I love doing it and but what I really wanted to do was write and show my work and obviously in intelligence particularly if you're working for a government, you cannot share that kind of stuff, so all

majority of the stuff that you do will never see the light of day, so you know went back to school, went to Brunel, Brunel University London, world famous Intel program, really enjoyed my time, some of the teachers are practitioners themselves, still active, I think the course director is a good friend, Christian Gustafsson, I believe he's a colonel in the British army and had a really good time and I met my business partner Seju Kim from South Korea and together we started Great Dynamics in London and yeah you know and this is now six years later, so yeah there's certainly an oppressive resume jumping all over essentially from you know finance which has there's a little analysis that goes into that but I'm sure it is and then to now where you're like

I've been all over what East Africa and I know what's going on down to the local level and I could write an intelligence assessment like nobody else, so you might have mentioned this before but when you started getting into the private sector with your human thing abilities did you seek out companies that focused on East Africa so you can get back there or is it just kind of falling to your lap? Well I didn't, from like a perspective what I wanted to do I looked more at analytical roles and less at human and secondly I was not really interested in going back to Somalia even though I love the country and I love the people, people always ask me do you feel Dutch or do you feel Somali that's like choosing between your mom and dad

it's a very difficult one but bottom line it's super corrupt it's very murky you know today somebody's your friend tomorrow is your enemy I've seen a lot of guys that were awesome human beings you know losing their lives because they thought that somebody was their brother and they were you know somebody their cousin you know and I remember in my time that I was there the interior minister had a cousin that he brought in to work with him as a young lady and sent her to school and everything and she got you know seduced to that lifestyle of terrorism and Al-Shabaab and she blew herself up in front of him you know and that's like he was like her father you know the blood and so and it was soup it just it was a very

lonely existence you know you do your work and then you go back into a compound and you don't see anybody you don't interact really with anybody except for the people you work with or you're well my father at the time was there but and some friends but it's a very lonely path so I didn't search that out to go back to Somalia I wanted to stay in London I really love that city and and so I looked mainly for analytical roles and I applied and I thought you know with the languages that I know with the experience that I have you know I shouldn't have a problem finding a job but I had a huge problem because I applied so many places and I couldn't find anything oh I wasn't even invited for interviews for whatever reason I like I can guess but

I did my best and I just couldn't get anything and I was like you know what instead of waiting for people to give me a chance let me set up my own thing you know and and being a driver's seat of my own career and my prospects and the funny thing is you know the first contract we got was from things that I applied to and I wouldn't get an email back but they were willing to offer me a contract with great dynamics and that was yeah that was bizarre but that's been the story so far you know that I think it yeah it has something to do how you carry yourself I guess now this just came to me while you while you were talking but would you say because you and I you know we both work in the intelligence community and or did and understand that it all comes down

to financing you know the financier is the most important key to any kind of insurgent group or local government or national level assets so would you say that your prior finance skills in a career in that field benefited your work in say East Africa because I mean it comes down to a dollar so regardless if your friends are family or blood it's yeah it's oh who has more money who's gonna pay me yeah I mean it has a it's a big component I think also in the beginning they try to kind of push me into the direction of counterterrorism finance and anti-money laundering which I thought was boring and I'm no no I'm not trying to throw shade on anybody that does that job because you know it's very important work but to me it was just not that interesting

but you're 100% right you know that's I think from all the work that I've done in in different sectors when it comes to violence terrorism conflict is not as much driven by ideology as people think mainly the heartliners yeah those are true believers but the majority of the food soldiers and you know some of the lieutenants even they're in it you know to have a better life you know to us as outsiders it sounds bizarre right why would you join a terrorist group to have a better life so imagine how their life is before that you know and in countries like Somalia was at the time when this group came to to arise it was it was a failed state right so these guys brought a sense of order and that's how it always goes

right the group comes in and they offer some some semblance of governance and and then they come in and you have to you have to have a like it's absolutely heartbreaking when this happened when this group came to power before that like I would speak to people elderly people mainly in Mauritius and they were talking about Mohammed Farah Adid yeah yeah okay I mean he was a major figure you know and and and his group and like for us I remember when I was a small boy when you know Black Hawk Down happened and I remember vividly as a kid seeing the bodies of American soldiers you know being dragged because I don't think people talk about that enough they talk about you know the heroics obviously and and and and the incident itself

but the aftermath was the truly horrific part where dead bodies of American soldiers were dragged through the streets and I remember my mom we were watching tv and my mom was crying and outside of the fact was horrific thing to see she said this is the end for our country and it was because after that you know America pulled out most of the UN pulled out you know and they were left to their own devices you know it was basically like an apocalyptic hellscape it became and and it was that pretty much until this terrorist group you know turned up and they kind of like cleaned the streets and I remember I've heard stories horrible stories of where people which is being like girls being um I don't know if your audience wants to hear this but you know they

horrible things happened to women and um in broad daylight in front of their parents and or husbands and when this group came to power that kind of thing stopped right but as you know when you have that kind of power it just it's it's a matter of time before it corrupts you too and you start doing that and you're becoming the aggressor so um and then when you talk to these people they're like yeah you know I I wanted to escape being a victim and then before you know it you become um you know you become the perpetrator and so on that really quick what we're talking about essentially the 90s window of Somalia I don't I'm not sure if a lot of people know this maybe you probably do but a deed's son Hussein was a marine and aren't like a US Marine in the 90s

in the late 80s early 90s and came over to the US got a college education joined the Marine Corps was attached to uh 29 and went to Desert Storm and then when operation let me let me see this one restore hope came up in Somalia he was picked as the translator to speak between the local Somalis on the US military to make sure everyone was on the same plane and so when his dad died he went oh I'm just going to go back to Somalia and take over this this tribe this insurging group that we just went over there and helped fight essentially and so he came back and was in charge of the Somali group or the Somali National Alliance the political organization and then from there you you could almost do a simple association go and he's like hey if the Americans ever come back

I know how to beat him because I was with their best branch so it's and it's this like a really under focused topic but I'm sure the UN after they left yeah after the UN the US left after Black Hawk down they saw oh wow this guy was a marine in the US military who was there he understands the situation we could really work with him and he was like not a chance it's like no this is this is Somalia you don't tell me what to do over here hmm it's uh it's bizarre man and you know there is there is this um there is this like uh because in Somalia Somalia is uh they they say that it's the another name for the country is the land of poets yeah so Somalia is is the land of the poets and uh and one of Somalia's most well

normal freedom fighters um he was active for 20 years an insurgency uh against the British who were at the time uh running north and south Somalia was later on sold by the British to the Italians um if I remember correctly and and he was above all outside of his fighting prowess he was a poet um and a warrior poet and in the truest sense of the word um eventually he he lost I think due to like smallpox or something like that um or a lung disease um after 20 years of fighting but a lot of sayings and and and and small poems come from that time and in and this is somebody once told me that it it could also be from because Somalia is a nomadic culture mainly and that comes because of the influences from the Middle East

the some most of the tribes in Somalia are clans they they came from Yemen hundreds of years ago and and there's this famous saying that goes first it was me against my my neighbor or my country then it was my me against uh my or to other clan then uh me against my clan me against my family and in the end it was me against my brother right so in that somewhere the most important thing in Somalia you would think you know it's a Sunni Muslim country it's religion but it's not it's clan which really uh goes through everything the civil war was started because of that um and a lot of issues today exist so Muhammad Farah I did son if I had to like guess you know even though he went to America

got his studies was a marine and swore an oath and loyalty to the US in the end it was his clan that called and and he answered that call right uh which is to me you know I can understand because the amount of pressure that brings with it or it could as well be that he was he just he just wanted to have power you know which we see this popping up all over in Africa specifically because it's down to that tribal mindset it's not it's not as clean cut it's just a border it's like hey you're Ethiopian they're like that doesn't mean anything to me I am from this tribe that's that's who I am and we can see that in Libya where it's also a conglomeration of almost a confederation of the willing with smaller different tribes located throughout that just that box that was

controlled by Colonel Gaddafi for so long and then today we have a situation where the current leader of the opposition who's a not for the US um Khalifa Haftar is an American citizen who has a house in Langley and as soon as the civil war kicks off he goes oh I'm going back it doesn't I don't care where I matter who's gonna who's gonna win I'm gonna win I'm gonna go take over and steer this country in the right direction because I understand how to work for it and so if we have someone like a deed or someone like Haftar going yeah the West has no idea how to control or even operate in Africa to just stay away we know how to deal with our own issues yeah yeah I mean it didn't work out as well for him

but maybe that's because of the wrong allies you know that he knows um and uh who Haftar or Adi Haftar uh oh yeah he's a whole uh you know Russia France UAE you know that uh Gulf block uh Egypt like for some reason the Turks were able to you know tip that scale uh favorably to the other side and uh you know stopped him from consolidating power um as much as I can tell about Libya you know I've been following and I've done some work there but uh in India more broad strokes and you know it's in Somalia's case um was a bit different because there were not many major powers involved uh at the time before like full story it was they were independent

and then the British and then the Italians I believe and then they got independence again and then here they are yeah yeah and well you know um it's you have to also understand that you know the democratic system uh the system of governance that that you know is known mainly throughout the western world and most civilized uh I don't like that word let me rephrase that most of the internationalized world you know um is um that system is new for a lot of African countries you know and there's a lot of um community-based justice and and uh an order that that prevents you know it is very decentralized so a centralized way of of governance is like still in this infancy you know the US has a still a young system compared to Europe for

example you know um and so there are a lot of growing pains in uh and let's also be honest about you know the influence of the former colonial powers oh yeah um you know so that that definitely tipped the scale you know this very famous story about when France left some of the countries I think I'm not 100 sure so please people listening to this don't attack me on it but um I don't remember 100 or country it was but I think it was the CAR um when they left they even took the doorknobs just out of spite you know uh also like extreme pettiness and when the DRC Congo you know became independent chose Patrice Lamumba as their first prime minister and in his first speech basically he gives a scathing view of you know what the Belgians did and he was hungry to pull the second

sorry oh King Leopold II yeah yeah I want to you know and his son was there and um or was it his grandson my hamson sure but um and you know they got him killed mm with the help of the CIA um allegedly I don't know if it's ever proven but I think it was but um yeah there has been you know and and this was mainly like communism against capitalism right so we cannot let the Russians run it so we need to get rid of all of this self-determinance of socially speak because most of these leaders they came from that school of thought and even though they were not really aligned with the Soviet Union I think on that topic a lot of the

European powers after they left and there's different echelons of like how the French dealt with it how the British and the the Belgians dealt with it the their method of attacking the situation essentially was who cares about what happened in the past let's deal with the situation right now but all these all these recently independent states were going no we have to essentially build from the ground up because if you'd say yeah they took the door out we don't have a house so we're outside so we have to start over and if you look at someone like the French they left but they didn't really leave because they have so much investment into western Africa where it's almost like a quasi-empire where they put a lot of money into funding local schools and

they teach them French as well as their local indigenous language and they also fund the local healthcare systems and roads and infrastructure and so they're still there and we could look at this a hill g5 where they're fighting Al Qaeda or ISIS they were calling the French to help or with more of the French walking in and handling the situation because they're saying this is our backyard don't touch it but then you have someone like the British who went you want independence fine and they just left so the different ways of how these different countries decided to leave and so that's when someone goes we're independent now the Soviets haven't really done us any wrong so let's just go with them and then you have also offshoot situations like just the south southern part of Africa

or the Congo where there was that international coalition of essentially just mercenaries just going there to have fun in their mind so in their mind they were probably trying to fight socialism or communism but it was there's good documentaries out there about the Congo that whole situation was just a mess absolutely I think even like I mean it's far more insidious than that because like the West Africa has like I think some of them they switched over two years ago but they have the Frank right the French the currency still and them having their own currency who stipulated that I think something of like 10% of their reserves out of those foreign currency or their own needed to be in French banks imagine well I believe in states like Niger's where the

French get a lot of the uranium deposits they have so they have to so that's why they're so involved is they put so much time into just basic functionality of how the French state would work they have to rely on their their back door or something like Algeria that they were they left that tooth and nail they fought to the very end so in Algeria would not be independent but when it came to Tunisia they're like hey you can have it but yeah it's kind of funny though to think big picture that the two usual recognized failed states in Africa Somalia and Libya were the only two Italian colonies I don't know if that has something to do with it but it's kind of funny to just look going like man the Italians really fuck that one oh it's a good point I never thought about that

really that is a good point yeah well it's something funny when it comes to say the different ways of how nations left Africa everyone kind of overlooks Italy because they had Libya and they had the Horn of Africa Somalia and they also invaded Ethiopia in the 30s and so they essentially in the Horn of Africa on Libya where they had libyas where most of the oil comes out of Africa and it goes into Europe but we have a current situation where someone like the British usually if something comes up in Kenya or Nigeria or Bikina Faso they go okay we're going to help we're going to try some way because we are partially responsible but the Italians wash their hands clean they're like I'm not touching this so then you have all these refugees leaving Libya or they're

coming from Somalia all the way through Sudan and Ethiopia sometimes Egypt into Libya and they're crossing the Mediterranean and then they're getting dumped off into they're getting roped up by the Italian navy and dumped off in like essentially prison camps in Sicily and the Italians are like I don't want them someone take care of them it's but it's like what would the Libyan or the Somali do would they go to Greece no they culturally in recent memory they know that Italy is where most of their issues come from so if you look at that way I might be just going way too no no no just on a French thought but maybe it's like you know the chickens come home to Russia oh yeah where if you have like Egyptians they usually go to the United Kingdom or Syrians

they usually go to France because France used to own Syria but they're not going to Turkey so it could be fair with you guys so from what I know because I have family memories that cross the Mediterranean you know that as they fled and then went all the way to Libya and this was under Qaddafi still they I think geographically Libya Italy is also the shortest route outside of Gibraltar and most people that that go to Italy Italy is not their first is their first entry into Europe but it's not where they want to stay everybody wants to go to the UK or you know Germany or Scandinavia is also a big yeah destination big big big and during the Syrian war I think at a certain time Sweden was taking like 60 000 refugees a month you know imagine well you also

have to look at and I don't mean to cut you off but Algeria Morocco don't like each other and so and then from there you have Spain and Morocco who we see all these videos coming out every day of refugees trying to leave Morocco that are coming from Nigeria or another West African state and they're going from Morocco trying to enter Spain the Spanish are like absolutely not so coming on a boat you're in international waters and from that point if you're in a military naval vessel you have to pick them up according to the United Nations to give them medical care and then they go to Sicily and then from there they could just do a one hop wherever they need to another big destination is Crete and Greece but it I've been to both Italy and Greece and it seems like the

Italians were more willing to take at least house them temporarily where the Greeks were like I don't want this but this is also this is a very narrow experience of mine that was a few years ago but yeah yeah I mean you could say it's anecdotal evidence right but I mean I've heard stories for sure I think it's you know you know you broke it you bought it right I mean and Italy yes was a country that had colonies and but countries like Sweden you know they didn't have colonies Norway didn't have them you know so in that regard you know it's it's certain countries are paying a price for not being involved in you know colonialism or or any of the activities what parts parsley

causes these issues to be you know I don't know if they if it that never happened if these people would flee but most of these people they flee due to conflict or lack of opportunities and and you know you could apply that same mindset or methodology to central and South America how they're going there's nothing here for me I'm it's culturally or not culturally it's economically stagnant and Mexico is essentially Narcos state the central northern northern South America is just run by cartels and the surgeon groups and no one wants to play with Venezuela because they have their own thing going on and then they have the FARC that large chemists ideology a lot ideological based organization going on there

so like let's just go to the US we know it's going to be uncomfortable getting there but at least we'll be okay you know it's you know I because I know that obviously immigration is a very very sensitive topic in the US and but also in Europe but what's very interesting to me is you know how are the people that are dying in the Mediterranean trying to reach Europe how are they different than the people that were on the Mayflower you know it's a different era but at the end of the day you know the first people that settled in in the US you know they were looking they were running away from persecution in religious persecution and and the lack of opportunities starvation you know look at the Irish for example it's interesting you know how

we as human beings have been migrating all over the globe you know and then somewhere in 1800s 1700s we decided you know these borders are I mean it's a philosophical debate at that point you know now you know now we are here nobody else right and and to me you know it's like I know how it is to my parents didn't want to leave a country that they were born in that they understood that you know that has you know my grandmother for example didn't want to leave you know she said if I die I die in my own country and she never left I mean she you know bless her heart no she she she passed but she lived up until 2007-08 I think and you know incredibly resilient but on the other hand you

know it's like it's very difficult for me I have on a personal level outside of what I do as work about I have a hard time looking at it because I know how it is you know my my at when we came to the Netherlands I think I was six years old my mom had two suitcases and six months pregnant and three children you know and then you know make something of yourself and at the time you know the Dutch have you know that's why I you know I feel Dutch I love that country and because it has given me and and my family a home and and an opportunity to to do whatever we wanted to do and it's painful you know to hear the rhetoric to listen to what people say and because you know we got that opportunity and all the people you know they don't

so it's hard from a personal perspective to to look at it neutral let's say that okay I got a question for you I know that in the 90s when the civil war started a lot of Somalis emigrated or attempted to seek asylum in Yemen and so today Yemen is also considered a failed state and they have the Iranian back Houthis and the Saudi and the UAE coalition fighting with the recognized government and so the Somali refugees are going okay I guess I'm just going to move to piracy because that's the only way I can make any money and from that point they're just essentially making deals with or they could be making deals with Iran who are actively stabilized in the region to keep say multiple lines of efforts off of central focus essentially

just creating additional fronts in the Middle East and so from there where do you see that going it's because this is under talked about or under discussed a topic but there's I think I just saw like several million Somali refugees in Yemen and that state is collapsed yeah they came back a lot of them okay they came back a lot of them when that civil war started but I will tell you this piracy as far as I know it and I've met a lot of pirates personally young guys older guys heard their stories and if I had known that today I would have written a book before everybody else did but you know but the main reason we speak to these guys is the piracy started mainly due to

this there's a couple of things but the two main stories and the two main points that I've heard from people that were involved in that industry let's call it that because it wasn't industry was overfishing by international shipping companies mainly from China and Iran also illegal fishing so the locals couldn't their families anymore secondly there was a there was a free-for-all to dump toxic nuclear waste off the coast of Somalia and that was because one of the at the time more lords signed a contract with companies to do that to dump waste in Somali water so a lot of children were born with like deformities and you know that killed the fish even more and opportunities so when

you're faced with I cannot feed my family and you know these these these these these trawlers are overfishing everything you know we're gonna retaliate and that's how the piracy thing started the the point which you said about like creating multiple fronts from Iran I think that was just maybe more an opportunity that the Iranians you know just going back to earlier where you mentioned it's ideological base but it's also finance-based and so with someone like Iran yes so Shia Islam yes they do believe in every Sunni is wrong and every Christian and everyone who's not Shia is wrong but also they're like I also really don't like the U.S. and it's all based on current 50 meter targets so they're like yeah of course I mean

I'm gonna throw guys on the border of Azerbaijan even though quasi friends they kind of like the Turks more than they like me so I might have to go to war with them at some point or at least threatened to and then the same thing with and especially when it comes to Saudi Arabia and Iran it's they're in a Cold War where as soon as Iran says they want to make nukes Saudi Arabia because I guess I need some too and nobody really kind of batted an eye at the Pakistanis because the Indians got the nuke or the bomb essentially and so Pakistan said they would eat dirt to get the bomb and meet the Indians on a fair plank they are consistently at a Cold War and so there's always that closet that holds just part of the world is tit for tat and so when it comes to say

like the Horn of Africa they're kind of stuck in the middle of yeah because the Djibouti right there which was an old French colony and then it was owned by the British and then the Americans have a port there and it's a hub in the Gulf of Aden but also the Chinese now have a port there and they use that port as like a a launching pad into Africans and they're with a Belt and Road initiative and so you have someone like Ethiopia going just leave me alone but then they have the Tigray Revolution show up and so they're fighting each other and the Americans are going I really don't know what to do and so at that point it's an opportunity for the Chinese to move in and then you're going to have the same prolonged conflict of issues because all these external influences

are going to step in going I know what's best for you and then in 20 years go now somebody else's turn yeah only the problem is the consequences of letting the Chinese do it yeah they're easily the most nefarious and recent memory so I mean one of the craziest stats I've ever heard from somebody was in South Africa there's a lot of Chinese investment and I don't know if this has ever been said in Europe but I don't really care that much but a person in front of mine told me that half of the McDonald's franchises in South Africa are owned by the Chinese state security service or element thereof

right so knowing that you know that the economic warfare is is such a powerful tool and like if you I got I've been many times in Kenya you know I even have a place there and I'll tell you this the influence of the Chinese even though the Brits are very active in in in Kenya they they have they have boots on the ground there they have the trainings there they're very close with the Kenyan government but the amount of money the Chinese are investing nobody else's really you know and the the efforts being done you know is incredible and and now it's the Turks you know they they are doing a lot in Africa and and I've been to places for example I've been to I've been to shoot really rural places in like

Tanzania and they would be like a Koran school and I would see the books and they're like Shia study books right and so I was like oh they're even like trying here to cultivate Alex then you know poof there's an insurgency in Mozambique just a little water you know yeah talking earlier about the the bird's eye view of everything that really helps in the big picture especially when it comes like intelligence and analysis and connecting dots and link analysis it's you're like oh we had three insurgency sprouted up over the last six years and within the last seven the Chinese showed up it's like and they had heavy investment in all these areas and it's not primarily American soft power focused it's like as soon as there's a McDonald's at Hope

enough in Hanoi Vietnam was very pro-us but it's if China's buying that American soft power piggybacking off of it they essentially have swelled the local population I mean look at how the Russians freaked out they didn't really care that they invaded Ukraine but if you take away their Big Mac they're gonna riot so if the Chinese are just jumping on that they they can take it pretty far I mean and especially when it comes to say like cell phone ships or they're buying the real estate which will be useful in 10 years for making cell phones or rare minerals something that in the Horn of Africa is very rich but they organically cannot refine or obstruct or retain this those minerals so the Chinese are like I'll do it and so they're just writing every

single coattail that works over the last say 100 years and just essentially doing colonialism again but this time it's you know it's through business so it's an East India trading company yeah that's just a good one yeah you're right I mean there's this really fantastic book really I can recommend everybody listening to to read it is by Amy Chua she's a professor I think Yale Law School and she wrote a book called uh political tribes and it basically explains it breaks down why the US foreign policy and mainly US invasions and in Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan failed and and the basic the central question is that the US government routinely misunderstood or mischaracterized the tribal elements

in each of these countries and to ally with and not understanding the the human terrain as it were in these countries and and got into problems you know in these countries and and the way that she broke that down is yeah one of the like best theories at least for me I've seen and then she goes back to the US and what's going on right now I mean like if you read her book basically and template of what's going on around the world that was going on right now in in the US and this rise of tribalism you know but yes it's an interesting one and something a book that I can highly recommend the entire way of thinking can be applied to any post world war two intervention or conflict from eastern block western block independent party

outside of say maybe the black and white falcons war that just that four-year window of thinking where it's like let's jump into this no I don't like what the last guy was doing I'm in charge now we're not doing that or it's just that like the human terrain is it's the best way to put it it's I think a lot of when it comes to these outside powers that want to help nation building as they call it or winning hearts and minds they really don't because they go get out of the way you're just in the way at this point yeah you know and what what did you know if you if you had to make up a balance right you know what g what do right well what did that achieve because in the world is more dangerous than ever you know we could also associate that with

advancements in technology where it's you look at the Arab spring the entire movement started up over at twitter post because the guy sent himself on fire and then it's just united north and north africa in the middle east so it's just a combination of multiple lines of effort moving in one direction and if they're not moving at the same pace but they're not moving in this they're not even moving into their own they're in the same direction it's just moving in one mob where there's so much going on at once and over the last 20 years it's you know it's fighting ideas you can't really you're not going to win a war against an idea so yeah and I mean that's what the US was or used to be really good at

telling that idea you know mount olympus and you know freedom and that's that's like now like if you look at twitter countries in nato saying you know about this abortion ruling rovey wait saying like yeah very worried and you know where are the where are the shared values and I mean that's uh that's interesting you know that that's uh that that's being said by politicians and uh I don't know I mean uh I'm not an american right and uh I I uh I'm looking from the outside in right so I'm trying to because if you want it or not right whatever happens in the US has reverberations around the world right it's like the the concept of the butterfly effect right when a butterfly in in Kansas you know uh flutter its wings you know

it's felt in beaming Africa but um and and you know it is a it is a it is something that for us to to be interested in and to follow and to see what's going on and it feels like from from me as an outsider it feels like there's at the moment a a battle going on for america's soul and the the battlefield seems to be culture and and you know that that used to be the the tool of you know america's power projection outside of you know uh nuclear arsenals and military budgets and all that kind of stuff um because I think that's heavily misunderstood you know when people say uh america's defense budget is like eight times the next country's combined right um that's if they are saying the truth about their numbers because why would China let the world know how

much they're spending on defense we don't know that and we don't know that about russia either there's only guesstimates that we know so but but if you would ask a kid in a cold war you know soviet bloc you know they think they was like i want Levi's jeans and drink cola right so that's was the that was the the battlefield that it still is you know we we tend to forget and if we have any solace in what's going on in the world i don't think anybody's jumping up in africa in south america in parts of asia of what does russia or china have to offer when it comes to looking down to culturalism it's like i just mentioned it's you know McDonald's that's you think america you think cheeseburgers and

poke and you think five gum and all these things and so if you go to a local chinese village they have pepsi bottles saved up because they want to they like pepsi but in america they're like oh i don't it's it's just everywhere and so it's very easy to become complacent on and this is also applies to the western world in general of you know from berlin to london to madrid to dc to wellington new zealand it's there's like you know it's we have this we really don't care but then you go to somewhere like Guatemala they're like no i save every coke bottle i can because i can only get so much but you know i if you would speak to some people with certain political leanings they would tell you oh that's exaggerated you know right and and i'm like you

don't you don't know because like i've traveled to some of the like most um non-permissive areas in the world and you would see kids running around in manchester united jerseys and la lakers right um because that's what they understand us that's what they can identify with right and i'm not saying not to worry about where the world is going as a whole particularly if you are fond of you know um western democracy and you know um humanity and you know human rights and all that stuff which is very important um because as you just said you know i i live in sweden and and there is this huge huge love in sweden for anything americana like in like now summer it's it's super hot right now like 30 degrees i think it's like over 100 in

fahrenheit um and you would see like old mustangs and camaros and like rat rods of 40 50s or broncos 70s 80s you know um you see guys and girls dressed up like people from the 50s and like i'm not even joking when i tell you this on more than one occasion in stockhorn probably one of the most liberal places on earth i've seen trucks with huge confetti flags uh it's bizarre bizarre right but because they love that whole you know you're not seeing them doing that on anything chinese you know so so i think there is uh that that that space that uh that cultural space you know is is still heavily in favor well i think the only maybe a close second outside of the u.s would probably be the united kingdom everyone likes the Beatles everyone likes because their music is

generally regarded to be some of the best and then you could also go to say animation a lot of people in the u.s like japan so absolutely yeah it's because there's that and it's over the last seven years before world war two i wouldn't say it was very popular but now it's everyone's influence i think japanese anime is influenced by by west i don't want to take that away from them obviously but uh i'm a big fan you know i read mangas but uh i think there is an influence from from different cultures you know you take and i think that's also what makes you strong you know having uh having overlapping culture where it's yeah it's cool to be an american but if you or let's say italy you know italy has their culture but they're also bordered by

france and they also speak a romanc language like spain or romania so it's like all right cool so there's cultural overlap and so there's is redundancy a good term it's culturalism yeah it's just it's building off one another it's not like an isolated idea because if in the american is like guys down to the very bare minimum it's a melting pot so it's like yeah we get food from everywhere we get there we as americans get it's everything so it's like everyone kind of identified with that because there's niche little subgroups and subcultures within the american umbrella that can be applied to anybody so it's like if you're in if you're like in berlin you're like this is very similar to the one i went to in phoenix but yeah yeah no it's it's very interesting

that you're saying is because that book that i was talking about earlier uh political tribes it talks about america is the only country on earth right now the only power on earth i think the last time something like this existed was during the roman empire was that america has like the supergroup identity so you can be an italian but ultimately you're an american right so you're an italian america no you're an irish america in america you could ask someone what are you and their answer is not going to be american they're like oh well i'm scotch irish or i'm you know you know my my mother's side is korean but my father's side's from scandinavia so i'm kind of a a mutt it's just a mutt is the most common term that's thrown around over here

and so but if you go internationally it's they go like oh yeah i'm an american like because if you go to america it's like in america goes i'm i'm irish american but then you go over to ireland they're like no dude you're an american like it's i don't care about where where your grandfather's from like you right now and so it's just a big picture you're going international it's like yeah in the u.s people will go like yeah this is like my my little burrow but then when you leave you're like yeah i'm an american so it's that cultural identity has floated throughout the world i mean you know and i think also why why people are still really i don't know how we got into this but

um i think that's why people still love american culture right and and that's still really strong even though there's issues internally um and to be fair right so so i was born in somalia but for majority of my life and my formative years i lived in the netherlands right so i'm dutch and whenever i meet somebody not always but sometimes when i meet people most of the time when i meet people i say i'm dutch they're like oh yeah but where are you really from right i don't think that will ever be asked to an american you know uh because i might ask like where you're from and like like they're like so where are you from and then they would go like oh i'm from i'm from boston you know like okay so you're from massachusetts you're like yeah

and so it's like you will say like your city or what's next to and then you'll follow or if you're from like a little rinkeding town or like it's about 15 25 miles from the and then insert city here so yeah and this is this is obviously if you're traveling as an american in europe or in somewhere else right within america obviously there's still you know people that that might have these same views but but like in in france for example right like this is the this is the main issue right um in countries like this where i live in sweden and um which is often made out to be like you know these utopias these these um it's it's a socialist capitalistic country um you know that there is like a big safety net uh you know this you know free healthcare free school and all that

stuff and but the thing is uh that whenever you come here they say you have to assimilate right you have to lose all your own identities and you have to become a suite the problem is even if you do that even if you change your name to Hans or Bjorn or whatever um you will not be considered that right so where you see all these issues that they have here where where you know there's like crime issues and stuff it's like youngsters that you know hey i go to school i do my best you know i speak the language you know i understand the culture but the system is so stacked against me that why would i even participate right i think today america still does a better job at that than most countries on earth so again we come to this you

know this cultural or culturalism you know battlefield that you know is still you know firmly in the hands of the u.s or i have a good hope that that you guys can overcome the the the political issues that that are ongoing right now and uh and the differences and i think the u.s is in a much better shape than other countries pointing at and saying well you'll see about gun crime and which is obviously a problem but uh i think it's not as bad as people say and uh and uh i know we haven't really talked too much about intelligence and and all that so it's fine we're getting to about that uh we can come we can work so yeah we can come back into with you know in another time but i would love to um yeah just like as we're about this yeah i

completely understand where you're coming from and going back to like cultural identity it's the u.s is young and they're still trying to figure it out so everyone just kind of shows up and they're like hey take a swing sink or swim but in say in japan when you move to japan it's really hard to become a citizen there because they're like you have to be japanese that's just how it is but all right yeah so we're about that time if there's anything you would like to plug just go go right ahead um well first of all guys go to our website great dynamics.com you know we produce intel and and and and articles about everything concerning espionage conflict geo politics really interesting historical stuff very contemporary topics you know subscribe

you know where you can have access to uh very up-to-date analysis if you want to know what's going on in miamar or in ecuador or in the u.s um do that and uh you know our upcoming podcast and hopefully we can have you as a guest and uh ask you all these questions that you asked me oh yeah that'll be a really good time um yeah so great dynamics podcast you know have a look out you follow us on instagram twitter great dynamics all the same gray with the e instead of an a and uh yeah i have to say that because you guys write great dynamic great with an a so it's great with an e it's the british yeah just a little different yeah uh um yeah you know if you want no more shout you know message us on uh on twitter on instagram instagram is probably the

best place to reach us all right man well i really appreciate you coming on and thank you for having we'll chat soon yeah we'll do have a go on youtube uh