Kitbag Conversations - Kitbag Conversations Episode 4: King Tiger II

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

You boys like tanks? Cause we talk alot about those here. AFV Recognition (AFV_Recognition) and Tank Diary (@TankDiary) talk about Russia tank capabilities, limitations with some good ole fashioned Brit charm <3

music You'll take my life, but I'll take yours too You'll find your musket, but I'll run you through So when you're waiting for the next attack You better stand, there's no turning back The fear will surge, the time begins But on this battlefield, no one wins The spelling marks will smother the hearts of the breath There's a perjury at this time of day And welcome back everybody to the KitBadConversations podcast. This week we're joined by the Tank Brothers, King Diary himself and Jake again. What's going on? Hi there. Well, it tries yourself. Come on.

Yeah, I'm Tank Diary. I'm on a page on Instagram and Twitter as well. Probably you've seen my nice green graphics at some point. That's it. It's a dead stare to the camera. I post tanks. Yeah, men go one of three ways. I would get into sports, trains or tanks. That's what you get. No, the trains are the autists, man. They just sit there and stare. I mean, so we have AFV recognition here and we have Tank Diary. AFV is very military. He talks about TTPs, SOPs. He's down in the Nats ass about it. You take it from a historical aspect of looking at it. How did you get into that?

There was a past year when I've been doing this and people have been asking me, oh, what's the BDA of that? After that video, I'm like, what the fuck's a BDA? I'm not coming at this from a military point of view. So if anyone's under the impression, like I've not been in the military and not in the military now. So I did history at university. I've always been really interested in military history, always been interested in tanks. So that's the kind of angle I'm coming at it from, just military history, rather than actually knowing about tanks from my own experience. So the question is AFV, on a one to 10 scale, how much does Tank Diary suck?

I'm on the biggest tribute page. I'm actually on the biggest tribute page. Yeah, to be fair, before we set up his page, he used to follow me and he started commenting on my posts tonight. I was like, fucking hell, like this bloke's all over it. And I just started messaging him, fell up and stuff like that on like certain models, because like the T80s is absolutely special, he knows everything about T80s. And then I'd just go to him for advice and then he ended up making his own page. Well, I actually had a page for about a year before, and it was actually out about the same kind of time you set up AFV recognition. And like, yeah, every recognition came up on my feed. And I thought, fuck, I bet this is some like

swap that I know, because I thought it's the way you got on it. I thought it was something I recognized, but I followed it. And that's why I really liked it. And then I realized, obviously, it's not someone I know. But I had that page, but I only sort of like posted a bit, like military stuff and not really tanks. And then after like a year of them kind of following you and seeing what you did, I sort of thought, well, here, I fucking like tanks too. So I'm going to start. Yeah, because for ages, like, you followed me on the tank diary page and stuff. And I was like, like Nietzsche's post or whatever, sounds like a star of a love story. Like Nietzsche's posts and all that kind of stuff. And then he just messaged me one day,

he's like, Oh, yeah, I'm not that Lewis bloke, you know, you like your message or sounds like, I didn't even know. Like a situation like that when I first started, like with the old page, I remember I was like writing, but I would see some other guy like either comment or have his own posts come up. And I was like, his writing sounds very familiar. And then at one point he like commented that he was like, someone asked him his background, they're like, Oh, you bullshit Putin, show what's your background. He's like, I facilitated deaths in Iraq. And I was like, this guy was my schoolhouse instructor when I was at Intel school. I was like, you're the only

person I ever knew who said facilitated deaths in ISIS in the same sense. And then I hit him up, it's like, are you a sessor or whatever, whatever. And he's like, Yeah, how'd you know? Because I'm one of your students. He was like, Oh, shit, who are you? And I was like, I'll never tell you. Yeah, that's kind of something to worry about. Because I joined them. I joined like some Facebook pages of like, T80 and T72 Facebook pages. And then like the kind of pages, he was telling me about it. It's like, the kind of stuff that your dad would join, because he's like sitting in his shed painting his tank. And he's like, after fuck's sake, this time doesn't have exactly the right color for a 1989 model or something. So he goes on to Facebook logs on,

and asks all his like, 60 year old mates, what should this look like? So I joined those and I started like, posting stuff in and like, correcting people and shit. And then I thought, hang on, I sound, if anyone follows my other page, they'll know exactly who I am. Because I posted the exact same kind of style. But then pages, by the way, like, I know which one's on our T72 research group, T80 research group, those pages are just like, they're amazing. They are, if you won like every intricate detail, modelers, mate, they will, they fucking know it. They know everything about this stuff like that. It's not quite autism. It's like a sort of like, dad knowledge that.

Yeah, yeah, they said like, you go and sit in the shed and make like, like T80s, but like, proper specific models, like it'll be, they'll get a picture of the T80 from like, Grozny, and make that exact one right down to like where the dirt is on the tracks and stuff. The detail is insane. I'm not getting all those guys together. You're like, all right, group watch, we're watching the beast again. Dude, so I got a question, because I've seen this before on YouTube, where it was like, British men and their hobbies, and it was like, due to paint entire like 18th century armies and

duke it out, there's the train guy who had like an entire shed where him and his wife played train conductor after work. And it was like, I couldn't, I couldn't do, look it up, like, type up YouTube British train conductor hobby and that dude, like seriously, they put on the whole thing and him and his wife go play train conductor and he controls the little steam engine on the tracks. But like, what are you talking about? Does not exist here in America. You're like, yeah, your dad does that. Like, no, your dad in America becomes a Trump supporter and goes to DC in riots. He doesn't do that shit in the States. He falls off a wagon and gets really fucking political about abortion. So what's in the fucking water to make it so?

British men don't have that kind of outlet. So they just go into their garage or their shed instead. It's like, they don't have, they can't just go put on a red hat and stomp a capital. They have to find something else. It's all about the shed culture. It's the shed culture. It's seriously shed culture. I have my gym and my garage and stuff like that. Like, it's like a pillar of British society. It's sort of like having your sort of life. It's kind of centered around your shed. Every kid in England will know like, or Britain as a whole, they'll know like, the dad just say, and I'm going to the shed. And he wouldn't do anything. He'd just go in there. I live in an estate and like the houses around me in their gardens,

like the sheds have names on them. Like he says Dennis, well, Craig or something. Like it's like a, it's like a chapel. I'm fucking dying. Oh man, a peek behind the curtain. You were like, how do these guys think they're like, well, we're autistic and live in a house. All of the men in Britain, they're just like, I've got to do something in this shed because she won't come in. At what age, like at what age does that happen? Because in America, I think like, once you have two kids and you're in your 40s, you're like, yeah, I'm going to get really into the civil war. Yeah. Probably about the same, I think. Probably about the same sort of shed, shed era. I don't know, I think the time court

isn't set in pretty early. Cause I was used to play like men of war and stuff like that. It used to have the, yeah, it used to have like the, cause you do that thing where you could like direct control your tank and it would like show the thickness of the armor for where you were pointing at. Cause you, you know, you would like driving your fucking tiger around or something like that. And I'd like memorize the exact thickness of the armor and all these like Soviet tanks just so I could like get the right shot and shit like that. So, but yeah, it started early. Okay. So some men at war, those games are still around, aren't they? They were good. I used to play faces of war. That was a good one as well.

That was like the runner up to it. Yeah. For the pre-court or something. Mine was a command and conquer. Actually, I remember the brotherhood of Nod in the GDI. If you, if you're old enough for that, but that was, that was the beginning. I just had like my dad and his chocolate chip, like desert camis, just like, let me tell you how to do war. He's like spam tanks, spam tanks. Cause I, like, I'd say my intro was playing hearts of iron two in the early 2000s. And now, yeah, just like, you know, same thing, dad, chocolate chip, camis sitting down watching band of brothers again, going like, yeah, you want to go and fade

Poland? You're like, yeah, I'll watch you do that. Just like Germans have a sound. Jesus. Yeah, ask me why I'm doing what I am today. No, it's funny. It's like, you guys were talking about it. You're like reaching out to each other, but it's, it's, I'm completely okay with it now. Cause after like six months of with Matt and like hanging around Crotone and all that stuff is like, now I just kind of burst into pages of like, cause I don't even have like kit bag or the Crotone report page. I have my own page. I'm like, what's up, man? How you doing? And you want to, you like Intel? And they're just like, like, we, I did that to one dude. And he's like,

please don't tell me you're the feds. You're too cool, man. I don't like this. It's like, yeah, I know none of us, none of us have friends. None of all of us like the same stuff. It's okay. And he's like, Oh God, please, you're probably ATF like, besides, it's beside an S two. He's just like, this is kind of too good to be true. I'm like, no, it's not. I'm just really used to reaching into like autistic spheres and being like, no, no, there's, there's many of us. Funny cause you added us through the group chat and he, I think he was asleep and we just talked in there for like, he won't come to like 80 messages and he's like, it's so great. I have friends now. It's like, no, no, there's, we got to unite. Or you just like all the comments to

you hit him up. You're like, Hey, bro, what's up? What's up? Just drag him into conflicts. You're like, defend this. Have you just got like two dozen autistic Instagram groups going? It's, there's a lot of men in sheds all around the world who are like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. There's many of us like, Oh yeah, there's a lot of us, a lot of stuff. Yeah, you start kind of like getting your network of other pages and like starting to get the know the people on them. Some of them. Yeah. Some of them are just like keen to start letting the barrier down. But like a lot of them, once they, once they sense you're just as autistic, it's like, you're so many best mates. Did we just become best friends?

I do want to, um, before we go autistic level down into like tank whole thickness, how did you like the comment section on just that regular to solensky quote? Oh God, that's just like, and I look like, you know, I love calling sections. Um, and like me and Matt was talking before it started. And like, I mean, me Instagram is generally quite professional, but on Twitter, I'm an absolute gobshite. I just argue with everyone. I've been arguing today, but yesterday I'll do it tomorrow. Um, but like, this is the thing that we go on all the comments and stuff like, and it's like, all you done was post a solensky quote, literally said by the man himself, the leader of Ukraine.

And you've still got people in the comments calling you a pro-russian, a post in a solensky quote. But how, how was no captioning coupled with it? It was like, I haven't posted on a chromatone in weeks. Just like, yeah, just let me drop a quote in a picture of Alex Jones smiling. Common chromatone L. Oh my God. Damn it. It's so funny. It's because that, I guess that's like the best place to start, right? It's like, because like now it's, it's, it's so bad, right? Like it's both sides are kind of dug in literally and metaphorically on the Twitter and the better space, but it's like,

fucking, how do you, you can't kind of break the hold. It's like the Russians that invaded Northern Kiev versus today are complete. First off, they are different people because all the other Russians that started this are dead and now we're, you know, new guys, new plans. But I think like, nobody can get over the fact that the Russians had a bold first half or not a bold, but a dumb, a dumb first quarter, first half. And so now it's all over, which is, I guess like the starting point. Like, so tank. By first quarter, you mean like that first sort of like month where the first plan just went fucking tits up, cut the head off or they went, go for a 91. Let's do that. Yeah, dude. It's 20 years today from the other golf war.

Isn't it? Second, the two towers. Yeah. It was a good way. I like that one. Yeah, there you go. You got it. Is it a Lord of the Rings or a 9-11 joke? You don't know. When I was a kid, I used to call Lord of the Rings, the two towers, the twin towers until I was like, yes, just like, please stop, please. Just circling back to like kind of what you're saying, I get what you mean. It's like the kind of like memes and jokes and shit that started in like that first month or two, they're still there. Like the, oh, the javelin shit and the Russians abandoning their tanks. Like that's the kind of stuff that happened in those like first two months, those sort of early days when they were trying to penetrate really far behind Ukrainian

lines and they were just overextending past their supply lines and they were abandoning tanks. They were going into ambushes. That was the kind of shit that was kind of done by April, May last year, but like the kind of narrative that stems from that is still, is still dominant inside a lot of circles in my view anyway. And I've seen the like the Twitter community just hyper circulating a single source article that said, Russians are sending their conscripts into battle with a shovel. And you're like, you're like, okay, well, is that Wagner? Like, are they also giving them fentanyl, the clear minefields? Because that's what the Russians do. Like, that's just the way to do it. Like, hey,

Stalin did that with the Mongolians and guess who's getting shovels, Central Asians. It's not Russians being killed. I saw that. I saw that. And I told they a fee. I was like, that's, that's some biblical shit to be told like, hey, your enemy wants to kill you with a shovel. Like, bro, that's personal. Like getting shot isn't that person, but like somebody coming into your trench with a shovel, there is no, wait, wait, wait, let's fucking talk about this. Like, bro, I just fucking crawled 80 meters through shit to beat you with a shovel. You think we're talking? You think we're going to negotiate? Like, there's, if somebody told me, like, yeah, they're willing to crawl through all this shit just to beat you to death with a shovel, like,

bro, I, I bring the kitchen sink grenades. Like, I'd have a revolver if they got that close, not for them, but for me, like, oh, they're within shovel range. Like fucking, I'm not fucking with the dude who's like, no, it's the shovel. I'm bringing the shovel like the fucking what? It's not even an e-tool. It's like a garden shovel. It doesn't even have a serrated edge. It's your grandma's trowel. He's like, it's coming. Like, no, it's not. I'm ending. Like, I'm on 30 milligrams of fentanyl and like 800 milligrams of caffeine and like, what the fuck? Got a Wagner patch on his forehead. Like, no, but like tank tire, like you're saying the narrative of those initial jokes that came out

like, oh, Russians are bad, Russia bad, lol. You're like, yeah, it's already been over a year. Ukraine is not taking anything back out of the annex regions. That happened in September. And like, hey, center gravity is in Bakhmut, quote unquote. And so everyone said, oh, there's no strategic value. Then Zolensky comes out and says, if we lose Bakhmut, we're going to lose. He literally came out and said that it has the most strategic value because it's like the gateway to that Eastern half of Ukraine. I mean, that's more strategic value than fucking anything recent anyway. Yeah, the counter argument I've seen in the last 48 hours is Putin went to Mary Opal under the cover of darkness. You're like, and? Okay. And have Toby Keith out there with the USO out

there and Mary Opal. We used to do it all the time. I guess like the one thing I wanted to hit was because we were talking about this in the group chat and I was like, this would be a really fun one to talk about was every because we met and I pretty much had the same viewpoint because he comes from the Marines. I come from like airborne light infantry units and aerosol. And so watching the opening barrage like we knew Matt and I knew because it was like, okay, the stingers are working, the javelins are working, Russia doesn't stand a chance. Like that shit wasn't supposed to work. T90 turrets were not supposed to be flying off. Like the Shator system was supposed to deactivate that. The flares and the whatever the CMOS, the systems that protect the helicopters from

Stinger missiles. So like we kind of knew and then we also have like our views on the airport. But like, for you guys as tankers, how like at what point I guess like, what was it like watching the beginning of the war for you? And then at what point were you like, oh, shit, Russia's fucked. Like this is not going to this isn't going to go the way they think it is. Um, I think, I think, uh, fourth gas tank division for me, probably same for you as well. It's just seeing, uh, in the first few days, and you were just abandoned and everything, like there was just like every five minutes I was coming across another T80 year band everywhere. They were just leaving a trail of them and it wasn't even a case of like, I mean, like it was

obviously because of fuel, like T80 just for people listening to 80s got a gas turbine engine. And it's great. It's fast. It's maneuverable. But if you don't have logistics chain for it, it's not going to get very far. Um, but because of that, they were having to abandon, they didn't have the logistics didn't to get them fuel and stuff. Um, but yeah, they were just completely leaving the vehicles. We weren't even denying them. Like they were just leaving. I might be seeing vehicles still like the commander's HMG fitted and stuff like, you didn't, I don't think you'd ever see that from a Western vehicle. Like we'd, we'd deny the vehicle and take whatever kit we had. You weren't, you weren't just like,

they just left them. You know what I mean? It's completely left. I think that was, that was the most shocking part. And it was like just how they were just leaving everything. Just that was bizarre. But there's a really interesting thing you started pointing out last year. Um, the, and it was the lack of recovery vehicles. In those first like month, there were no recovery vehicle. I mean, there was like something like out of the sheer number of vehicles being abandoned and recaptured or whatever and all that tractor kind of stuff. There were no recovery vehicles, or there was like two or three or something the first month.

And it was like, these tanks were getting stuck in the mud and there was nothing, there were no brems or anything to pull them back out. So they were obviously just not, I think that really gave away either a lack of planning or like an expectation that things would go far easier than they did. So I think it was a really interesting observation that like wasn't really pointed out elsewhere. Yeah. Cause I remember putting a post on and this, like you said, it was at the start. And yeah, I think it was like a month or two in and I was like, I've not seen a single recovery vehicle, like not single one. And I was like,

I'm not like, this is really weird. So I put a post on. I was like, any pictures that come through, send them. And then I put a big post on detail and like, I've not seen a single recovery vehicle. They said, and it took about three months until I sent one picture of a breath. And like, that's absolutely insane. It shows that they weren't, they weren't working in the BTG, like the way they were supposed to after all, because they should have had, you know, like a CSS company supporting them with these kinds of vehicles and the adage weren't there. So I think, I think that ties into the Russian thought that they were going to get in there rapid and it'd be doing nothing.

And they didn't think they needed anything like that, but obviously they did. I think that's why a lot of them got abandoned as well, because they just couldn't get it out when it was stuck or broke down. They just couldn't move it. Cause there was sort of a case as well, a few times where your T2 vehicles abandoned, they'd be hooked up together as well. Like they were towed up together, but they've both, they've both just liked it. Like, I don't know why it's bizarre. It's so strange. Well, here's something like going back to like the, the opening narrative and everything where if you're talking about the guards leaving their tanks, no recovery vehicles and whatnot, and everyone's still to this day go, they thought it was a training exercise and you're like,

brother, Russian nose. The Russians are actively supporting this war. Like, you're like, you just can't go or, or you can see something like, uh, oh, they're conscripts. They're awful at fighting, but you're like, did, did anyone else see that video of a conscript mobilized on a Tuesday and it's clear an entire trench line by himself on a Friday. Dead by the Monday, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Yeah. He's a hero of the Russian Federation now, by the way. Jesus. You don't need, you don't need military training, tank tire. You don't need to be, I'll just, yeah, throw my textbooks. In one week, you could literally become better than, not even one week. He did it in six days. Medal of Honor. Like,

it's worth looking into. Like, what is the qualifications to get like a hero of the Russian Federation now? Because in America, you probably, you usually have to die. Same, same with the VC. Same in the VC. You basically got a die to get it. There was your man who got the VC. What was it in like, Basra driving the warrior? Yeah, Johnson Barrier got shot and he had nothing. I just smashed the warrior and he's still just driving about getting people out with, out with burning vehicles and stuff. That's fucking crazy. But just going back to the original thing of like, what were my initial impressions? I mean, obviously, you guys are going out for a

having natural experience in the military. But for me, I kind of, I'd probably built up Russia a bit in my head that they were, because I'd just recently been like around about 2021 just started getting into Chechen history and the Chechen war and all that kind of stuff. And like, when you read about the Russian army in the 90s, it's just like, or Russia in general in the 90s, it's just like possibly the worst fucking place on earth at the time. It just, the disorganization, the corruption is just crazy. And then when you read about the experience in the army in those sort of like mid to late 90s, it sounds horrendous. I'm sure we've talked about before like Arcady Babchenko's book. And the kind of experience he talks in that like just being

beaten by the officers and like they don't feed them and that kind of stuff and have no equipment. And I sort of, by about like the start of 2022, I was like, well, that's what Russian's army used to be like. But now it's so much more organized, it looks so much better. Because I was thinking about 2014, when they just like swooped in, kicked the Ukrainian soldiers out of Crimea, and it was like, fucking hell, they are so organized, like even compared to Georgia six years later, or six years earlier. So it was, they seemed so organized. So by the start of it, I was thinking they're going to absolutely fucking crush Ukraine. But then there was something I saw where there were, it was on Twitter, and there was stories coming out of some rail depot in Belarus

or something where the Russian soldiers was like 300 of them to a room, and they hadn't eaten in like four days or something, like, they didn't have boots, and the rifles were all fucking rusty and shit like that. And that's when I was like, my God, this sounds just like something out of the 90s. They're not actually good. Like, well, not even in that one. I know which one you're talking about. It's with that VTV officer or NCO came out and he was like, he defected, I want to say, he escaped a poll under something and then came out with like all of his, his phone, sorry, catalog, cataloging everything, and went like, they didn't feed us, they gave us expired MREs, if they fed us, we had no water. Our equipment was either old, we didn't have socks, they gave us

like nylon wrappings to wrap around our feet for socks. And they're like, and then if you counter argument that with what the Belarusians were saying, because they were, you know, working side by side in training exercise, the Belarusians were like, all they do is show up, fuck our girls, drink all our booze and fistfight everyone. He's like, these guys are hoodlums. They suck. And so but when it comes down to like the, like the military like equipment that was coming out, it's like, yeah, the VTV and the Spetsnaz, they got all the cool shit because they were like, you guys got to do move fast. It was like conscripts like, yeah, the point I was just trying to make is it's like, it just wasn't as well oiled machine as I

was expecting. And then it sort of made me realize it's not quite as well planned or organized. I thought, I mean, like, it's just like the biggest invasion in, you know, a long time. So of course, there's going to be a lot of deficiencies, but then you think, fuck, they're not actually going to swoop in here and take it in three days, there's going to be problems. I think it was kind of when it dawned on me. And that was like, I feel like maybe before the war, or like, whenever that guy defected a few weeks after or whenever it was, I think everyone had bigged up Russia though. I think, yeah, definitely, I think going a bit, going a bit Alex Jones there.

I can't, I can't remember who mentioned it, but like, I remember someone, there was a theory about basically all the big arms companies and stuff like I had funded, like all kinds of it, sort of like propaganda. But I mean, like, when you look at every, every game, all the films, they're all about America versus Russia, NATO versus Russia. They've bigged it up massively for years. So everyone thought Russia was going to smash them up because that's what you led to believe. You know what I mean? You play against them. Yeah. And then you got War Thunder where all the Russian vehicles are amazing. You know what I mean? You play all these games and like, you watch all these films and Russia are always like,

they're really good. And then when it actually happens, everyone's like, you remember the second one warfare two where it's like, they literally fucking invaded America. Like there's like some like cutscene and you've got like an F-22 pilot radio and back to HQ. And he's like talking to him saying, Oh my God, there's something in front of me. And then he cuts out and it's like, then it shows this like Russian air armada approaching New York. That's, that's what we were, that's what we were brought up to believe. Exactly. Yeah.

Cody and I have talked about this before, but it's like, when you want to paint who the villain is because you always need a big bad to keep everyone kind of like in line or something. And it's a lot easier to paint the Russians who has traditionally been the boogeyman, the bad guy if you're up and it's really easy to paint them as the villain because Cody always brings this up. No one wants to go fight and die in some Southeast Asian jungle against the Chinese. It's a lot easier to fight the Russians. It was a, I forget the name of the Japanese general, but he was the one who fought General Percival down in Southeast Asia, the British guy. And he mentioned he's like,

the British and Americans hate fighting at night in the jungle when it's wet, they're weak-minded. And it's like, what a mother. All right, first off, I'm in the comment section and I don't fucking like it. All right. Like, it's like, yeah, I don't want to be in the Middle East. I don't want to be in the shitty jungle. I don't want to be down in Africa. And it's nothing to do with anything other than like, fucking sucks. It's hot. It's muggy. And so when you think about Russia and the open fields and the tanks, and it's like, that's cool. I'll take that. And like, you liberate a town and there's baguettes and wine and women. And you're just like, this is great. And your grandpa told you all those great stories. And you're just like,

it's going to be so amazing. And then you end up in a porter shitter in Afghanistan and you're fighting the door and jiggling it because there's these things called camel spiders that'll nick your ass hairs when you take a shit and build a little furry nest. I used to do that, by the way. That's a true story. I used to have to like shake the fucking porta bodies because there's all types of because it gets warm in there at night because all the poos in there. And so the little critters go go get warm with your poo. So in the morning, you got to shake that thing and get all the shit out and get all the bugs out of there. Grandpa left that story out. But yeah, that's the kind of stuff you're not sold. Yeah, no, God, no.

Well, if you want to talk about like selling like potential conflicts, there's a lot more movies about World War Two and the European theater than there is the Pacific. Like, what do you have the Pacific? How many movies about the Australians and the South, the Solomon Islands are there? Probably one. That whole conflict was just miserable. Everybody loves Band of Brothers, nobody loves the Pacific. No one really does. They got the same one coming out about it. It's good. Yeah. But it's like, oh, we talked about that before, Cody. It's I forgot who it was with. It was with all kinds of stuff where it was like, how can you shape some average kid off the street into the fighting machine that needs to eat maggots to survive? Yeah, Jesus.

I mean, it's like, yeah, it's a real thing. Yeah, like we're a John Bass alone, Patron Satan machine gunners. If you don't know who that is, do your research. But John Bass alone, he stops because the kids like I want to kill the enemy. I'm not going to say what he actually said. It's super fucking racist. And he's like, Oh, you want to do that? He's like the Japanese. Yeah, the slap. Yeah. He's like, you want to do that? You think you're a hardcore? He's like the Japanese soldier lives on a cup of rice a fucking day. And you're like, oh, shit, like, yeah, that's Russia, bro. And it's not because they have to, not because they want to, it's because they have to, but it's like, you know, I don't to kind of defend it after you guys

slap the military intelligence community. It's a I think it's a combination of Black Hawk Down meets Operation Market Garden, right? So like the Russians, like you said, tank diary, they slapped the shit out of the Ukrainians in 2014, absolutely dominated. Nobody can, I mean, as of became a thing, that's how bad that ass beating was, was that they immediately went, okay, the army's useless. We have to create a Nazi battalion to fight the Russians. And everyone's like, well, hold up now. But it's a combination of the two things because it's like the Russians knew they could beat them or thought they could. And so it's like Black Hawk Down, where if you've ever seen the movie or read the books, they're like, you won't need your NVGs, we're only going to be down

there for like two hours. It's a quick in and out, right? And so they don't bring like half the shit they're supposed to bring, which is what the VDV did. They jumped into the keys airport and those key locations with like two to three magazines. If you look at the video on Croat Toa, and those guys are like bringing assault backs, like two day packs. And if you look at that in comparison to Panama, which is where the 82nd jumped in to, you know, just because just because just because they were reminded me of was actually kind of reminded me of Czech Slovakia in 1968. Because they did the same thing. They just they just landed at the airport, took it over and then started flying in the troops. And it's like, I think that's probably what they thought

was going to happen. It's going to be nice and quick. And they'd start flying in the reinforcements. But that's, we talked about this before. It's like the Russian strategy of invading a country is like a seven prong approach, where they at first they start blowing stuff up, then they start releasing rapists and murders and freeing the prisons to create chaos. They had the people freak out, then they could have the troops bleed in by either a port or an airport, bring the guys in, solidify power in the region. It's very asymmetrical and they're approached. And they tried it again. But yeah, I mean, like AFE mentioned, it's like, yeah, logistics lines, like, and that's like, you know, the big, the catalyst, everyone seems to still goes back to is like,

oh, the Russian logistics are poor. You're like, I'm pretty sure they've learned over the last 14 months. I think for me, I just kind of like, I mean, I, I was like, what, 16, 17 in 2014, whenever they invaded there. And I sort of just slept on Ukraine for like eight years after that. And I think I just still had that in my head that Russia would just pitch up like a bunch of what little green man again, and then pick the Ukrainians out of their barracks will even know what's going on. But it was a different kind of beast at that point. But then it's good. No, you're good. He's probably got a good party or something.

Then on the flip side, to just carry on this narrative of like, okay, so they fucked up in the first day, the plan didn't work. They didn't go in and end up fighting what they expected to fight. You can't keep going on with that narrative. It's like, that was true in the first month or two. But the Russians aren't, you know, they're not that stupid. They're not just but these a lot of people just want to keep buying into this. And they just want to keep circulating the same thing that all Russia done, Russia stupid, Russia makes silly mistakes. It's like a lot of that stuff happened the first month or two. It's not happening still. So it's like, it's like the people always sound Twitter and like in comments and stuff.

And the three day thing. Oh, three days, three days. It's like, it's like, mate, you do realize that the three day thing came from the US intelligence report. Like the US intelligence like, yeah, you've probably got three days. So everyone uses that as a joke because if Russia were like, yeah, we'll be there for you. The Russian never said that. He never said it. I remember some of the same Austin accounts in like, because where I remember it was like, it was like the lead up all January, February was just like Russian times going, going west, going west for every fucking day. And everyone knew what was kind of coming. And then by like February 16th or something, it was like, fuck me, it's going to happen.

And then it just like kind of passed and didn't happen. And then I was like, oh, maybe it's not going to happen. But I remember accounts posting at that time, big Austin accounts were posting like pictures of a boardroom full of Ukrainian generals being like, look at their faces, they know how doomed they are. Like, you know, and then these are the same ones that then like are still spinning the same narrative of like, they were saying, it's just kind of stuck. Remember those, what data is our February 24th when the Russians came in? I stayed up that entire night and I was on telegram channels and on Twitter. And there was these reports, it was something like zero to their time. And they were like, yeah, Ukraine's making

mild counteroffensive to secure key terrain in Donbass across the water or blown bridges and everything like it was common. And so it's like just reading that watching that happen in slow motion. It's like, yeah, the Ukrainians knew what was coming. But it was it was that weird, we didn't see this no way when Georgia got invaded. Nobody gave a fuck. Not a single person did. I just remember that. I was going to say that Bush administration not giving a fuck. Sorry. Yeah, I mean, you could always look at it that way. If you want to be like an Alex Jones theorist, you're like, oh, the Russians didn't now, but not the last administration

because they knew the current president two administrations ago didn't do anything. So it's under what it was August, it was election season 2008. They invaded Georgia and annexed like what 25 30% of it. But yeah, we didn't see something like that. And if you look at the pictures of Ukrainians in 2014, they were in Soviet fatigues, they're armed with moys and the guns, they're not they were not ready for a fight. It was great. It was disgusting looking at those pictures. And so a lot of them were corrupt anyway, a lot of in 2014, I think a lot of people don't realize it like a lot of the Ukrainians just just defected. There's there's one upside the hundreds. I think if like Ukrainian high command would just the ordinary was coming. And then just

when he turned up your life, yeah, put me Russian patch on now. It's that female, she's running around Crimea. She's like the Crimean judge or something like that. She was a you, I'll find her, you'll know her when you see her, but it was like a female Russian officer who when the Russians came in, she defected and gave up all the legal documents. She's like, here's everyone that would be an enemy of the state and became like the jury, like the judge, jury and executioner of Crimea for a little bit. She's very attractive. So she was shot gone to everywhere. They were like, look, see the Russians are doing good things, but it's crazy. Yeah, no, it's it's crazy to see it because it's like now,

like you're saying, like the three to three day war, that was US intel, but it's like the shock troops are gone, right? Like the fourth tank guards, most of the VDV, their airlift capabilities, the entire Kiev airport is bombed to shit. It can't be used for huge flights. So it's like, okay, now that the strike package is gone, now we're kind of like in this, and I was fucking with AFV last time he was on here, I was like, yeah, tanks don't matter no more, bro. Tanks are obsolete, like fucking, but now it's kind of shifted to this slow meat grinder. And so like when you talk about tanks now, because there's tanks are, they're going to be around, fuck whoever said if anybody ever fucking says tanks are obsolete, I think I'm going to smack them.

But it's like, now that the javelins have ran out, now that we're kind of down to like RPGs and AT4s and what's left of the in-laws, there's more javelins coming, but you guys are watching the tanks. What's happening now with the tanks, right? Like are they special and we need to keep them safe? Because that's what AFV was saying last time, like they kind of hide the tanks away from the drones, because that the artillery is just so good, like where are the tanks now and how are they moving? Like in your opinions? Well, I sort of feel like now the most common thing that I'm seeing is this sort of pair work that you see them doing, they'll scoot up close to the line in a pair and just when what they're firing every seven seconds, there's two of them, there's a shot going off every

three, four seconds, they just unload 20, 30 rounds and then deploy smokes, scoot off, turn backwards and that's it. And they're doing these sort of like hit and run tactics, keeping them really safe or trying to keep them safe. A lot more like quick, quick slice and then get back out again kind of thing. Yeah, just just a shoot and scoot. Now is that like the T80s or we see in that with like the BMPs and all that other stuff? It's mainly like in Bachmouth anyway, it's mainly the but I've seen anyway, it's mainly T9 DMs, I guess sort of T80 BVMs as well, the more modern stuff really. But I mean, there's always talk about T62s, but I'm not seeing them in comp, like of course, like this is all with the lens of like what I'm seeing, but it's in Bachmouth anyway,

what I'm seeing is the T9 DMs, the more modern T80s are doing a lot of this sort of ground work, a lot of this fire support in pairs kind of stuff where it looks quite effective because they're not getting hit, they're getting away. They just go up and like pull the shit out of an area and then suppress it and get away. Yeah. Yeah, I think with a tank now, people, I had an argument on Twitter today with that Blake, I said in an in-degree chat about the T62s, he just took it out when I worked, we weren't even talking about that. But yeah, people are joking about our 262s coming up and it's like, yeah, where are they? Have you seen them in combat? Has anyone seen them in combat? I've seen a couple of destroyed, but I've barely seen

any videos of them in combat. What do you see in combat? You see T9 DMs, T80 BVMs, T72 BQs. They still got brand new tanks coming up, grade dollar factory. I mean, that's not to say the Ukrainians, the Ukrainians also refurb and a lot of stuff as well in in Kharkiv and then I can't remember where the one is. I think it's Zermay. I think that's where the main two tank batches are. And they're still refurb and stuff as well. So like both sides got no problems like refurb and kit. I think the T62s for anyone listening who thinks that like Russia having to roll out like the deep reserves, I think they're purely giving them to the DNR and LNR for race security and potentially just getting them in country for when and if they do need them.

And if you look at stuff like Zapad and all them kind of exercises, it's been a Russian thing for the past 10 years now, where you can observe the Russians have been every exercise, part of the exercise is to get 100 T62s out of storage, out of deep storage and completely overhaul them and modernize them. Like it's not like a new thing. The Russians have been practicing this for years. I think it should purely like, let's get them modernized and get them out the door why we can't, why the factories are running as much as they can. And let's get them in theatre just in case we do need them because I think they're probably sat in a staging area off to the rear in case they need to be used. Going on to tanks as well, I don't know if you've seen this in a day

tank, but I think I've seen a post that went into like detail on numbers in T80Us and I think there's like barely any of them left. Apparently, there's not many left at all in storage as well. Apparently it's just T80UDs, which obviously for those that don't know the factory that makes the engines is in Ukraine. So the Russians can't get spurs from. So yeah, I don't think we'll see many of them for the foreseeable future. It's showing them my favorite. But I think there's some stuff about kind of a perspective because they obviously started coming out at the end of 2022 with the sort of new model of T72, the ones. I mean, there were the two, there was the one, there's like the B3 2022, which has like a lot more relict on it, a lot more ERA and has like a

better site cover and stuff like that. And then there was another one that came out, which actually has like a worse thermal site on it. And then they also came out with, they kind of came out with like an upgraded T80BVM that had like an improved site on it and similar kind of stuff to the B3 2022. And then they had another one again. So they had like an uptiered version and then like a slightly lesser version that didn't have quite as good a thermal site. And people were saying, oh, well, Russia's running out of the equipment needed to upgrade T80BVs to BVM level, right? But they're still upgrading T80BVs. They're still giving T80BVs a thermal site. They're still giving them more relics and stuff like that. Just because that BV is now not being upgraded to

like a pre-walker or pre-invasion kind of BVM level, it's still a better tank. They're still upgrading these things. They're still rolling them out storage, sticking thermal site on them, sticking relict on T80BVs. So people are looking at it as, oh, that's a downgraded T80BVM. But I'm thinking, no, it's not graded T80BV. So I think people are kind of looking at it with the wrong perspective a bit there. And then they say, oh, well, Russia's desperate now, but they're still able to roll out these quite upgraded tanks. Was it this group chat or another one? Because once again, you get in these group chats and you start messing with the Intel pages, you'll be like six group chats deep and like 80 messages in the

morning. God forbid I wake up late. We were talking about that. And we were like, you're talking like, it's still a tank. It's still a Russian tank. It's still an upgraded tank. And from a light aspect, like light infantry or special operations, it's like, bro, the last thing you want to run into, even as an American, is a tank as light infantry. And it's God help you if you don't have, because we carry, we have one or two AT-4s per infantry squad. So there's three or four per infantry squad. And then we have a javelin in the heavy weapons squad. And so we're bringing in a thunderous amount of ass pain for tanks. And we still do not want to run into tanks. And then you're talking about a thermal site on every tank. There isn't a

fucking thermal site in the entire platoon. I think there might be one in the company and nobody wants to use it because it's like the size of a bread loaf. And you're like, get that shit out of here. Like I'll just use an ATOG. I'll use iron sites before I bring a thermal. And so like, you're talking about, and people don't realize like, you don't need to like have a good thermal, like you can have a shit thermal and you're still like, Hey, there's a heat signature there in that forest, you know, call in, like that's essentially my point. Like, yeah, that they're still improving tanks, they might not be able to improve them to as improved as they were before, but they're still making and producing better tanks or upgrade old ones, which, you know,

so I think it's exactly what you're saying. It's still better than nothing. Yeah, I mean, that's on like every tank, right? Like there's still a thermal site on every tank, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay. So anybody giving you shit can go fuck off because here's the thing. You're talking like, like I said, you're talking like every infantry company in America might have a thermal site, maybe if we can convince a private to fucking lug it, like if every tank that Russia has has a fucking thermal site on it, and they're two to one ratio on Ukraine, it's like, bro, fuck that noise. And that's what you're seeing too is like the concentration in Bakhmut, like the foreign legion and like the 93rd Mech as they get into Bakhmut, they don't want

to fucking go there because the T 90s and the T 72s are coming up and the light and, you know, you've got former Western soldiers sitting there like, okay, read that fucking Intel report back to me. Like every tank out there has a thermal site. I can't hide. I'm having to use like a space blanket in my fucking, they can't maneuver. It's like, yeah, no, go sit in that area that is like basically a pre designated point for artillery, where every tank has a thermal site and is looking at you. And it's like, but you know, good to go. And it's like, and that's still coming. Yeah, that's coming off the lot every day. Right. It's like, it's not a good thermal site, but it's a thermal site. It's more than you got. Exactly. What's going on? Sorry. Yeah, it's just like,

are they going to run out of the ability to upgrade? I mean, that's the question. Like, are they going to run out of the supply chain to keep putting those thermal sites on all the tanks, but the Ukrainians have thermal sites on all their tanks. No, I'm not saying like all Russian tanks of thermal sites. I'm just saying they have the ability. They are so far displaying the ability to put them on all the tanks still. I don't have a question for that one, because you know, building on everything in AFV just mentioned that there's two tank factories in Ukraine. So the main one, the main one is KMDB in Karpov, which is that's the Soviet hangar one. That's the one where they just, if you look at it now, because the UK, I think I mentioned on the last

podcast, the Ukrainians basically neglected it. And there's now just like fields of old T-64s, because instead of putting money into the tank, they just didn't bother. So that's the main one. And I think there's one, there's one in Zhitomir as well. There might be a few others, but they're the two like big ones I know of. So when it comes to you upgrading any tank coming to Ukraine, be it a Russian T-Series or like an Abrams or something like that or a Challenger, do they have to go there to get the parts, then move those to the front lines? Because that could be a problem. Yeah, I think, I mean, I mean, Karpov is pretty close to the front, and when you think about underground skiing, it's pretty close to, but I think it's probably been

hit quite a few times as well by like Iskandar and Calibrian stuff. So I know Zhitomir as well was hit, the whole tank factories here, and that got like smashed up further than the war. But Zhitomir is pretty, I'm pretty sure going off the top made like is sort of central, like West central Ukraine. So I imagine they're doing a lot more work there. But yeah, I mean, if when you look at Ukrainian tanks, like the main tank, the backbone of their tanks is T-64 BB. Now they have got T-64 BB in model 2020, 2017, I think it is. That's got thermal site. But I think they've probably only got two to 300 of them, maybe a tank that you might know more. But yeah, the backbone tanks that you have, which is T-64 BB, they just got IR search lights,

like old infrared sites. So yeah, when it comes to, you know, the challengers and everything going to Ukraine, do you see them going thrown right into Bakhmut? Because if that's true, Bakhmut's already a lost cause, they're just going to waste all these cool toys that they were given to by the US, UK, Germany, or are they just going to have those sit in the rear just in case? But what would you do as a tanker in that situation? Personally, I think, I think when it comes to the Abrams, the challenges, and this applies to all vehicles, again, all these model Western vehicles, the CV90 Bradley, I think they should be made into, say, two brigades, two maneuver brigades. And instead of just slugging out on the trenches, I think they should be used as

flanking and attacking, I think they should properly use them the way the way we use them in Iraq and stuff like that. That's the way they should be used. They should be used for fast, like shock tactics. They shouldn't be used to sit there and lob rounds over 10k, like they're doing with the T-64s now, because you're not getting much out of the tank by doing that. It's just, you just turn it into artillery. If they actually use it, and use it for the shock action and use the armor, which is a lot better than what they've got now on their tanks, then I think they will work. But it depends what they do, doesn't it? I don't know what they're going to do. I don't think anyone does yet, so. I just sort of assumed that they were probably going to do what AFE is

saying, sticking them into kind of brigades. But then, I mean, there's all that talk about attacking on Zapparoja, isn't it? Or how do you say it? But like, at the end of the day, it's, it's what, 200 tanks? And they're all going to arrive in drips and drabs from what, a dozen different countries? It's going to take a long time to materialise. It's like, what, there's three different types of challenges, leopards, abrams. It's, it's not a wonder weapon. And there's all this chat of like, oh, what happened? There's all this chat of like, oh, well, T90m is not going to stand up against the neighbours. It's not what it's about. It's not just the T90m it's going to have to face. It's like, that might be like fucking 1% of the engagements or something. You

know, just putting that figure out of the air, but they have to stand drone attacks, they have to stand mines, they have to stand artillery, they have to stand ATGMs, they have to stand planes, helicopters, whatever. It's like, we didn't move away from this kind of thing, like, oh, our tanks are better than their tanks. So then therefore, if we send our tanks over, then they're going to beat the Russians because it's not, it doesn't work like that. But coming on to that as well, obviously, you said it is going to be a small engagement with the small centre to engagement with the tanks, but the Russians are preparing for it. So I don't know if you've seen the post, I don't think the series go now, but they've started putting three BM 60 rounds in their tanks,

which is the best APFSDS rounds they've got. And they're the ones that according to according to statistics and open source, like, they will kill Western tanks. So they are preparing for it. I mean, Tanglin, Tanglin, the agents haven't been much during the war yet. Like, you're not seeing that many really, compared to, I think, why everyone fought before. Yeah, I mean, the Russians are getting ready for it. So yeah, I know, which is that video you're talking about where that, I don't know if it was like a conscript or a tank crewman, the press asked me, like, you're ready to fight the Abrams, he's like, yeah, 100%. Yeah, you got help as well, where they've started training as well. I said one the other day, like, big, big, a big paper picture

of a challenge to, and there's like a Russian bloke pointing at it. And it's got like, like weak spots marked and stuff. I mean, I don't know where they've gotten from. And probably from that guy, yeah, a lot of people saying they're getting in from War Thunder, which I mean, when you actually look at War Thunder, and I mean, gaging the company from War Thunder, they get in touch with these companies and make these tanks. So I mean, their stats are generally going to be as close as you're going to get. And I don't know if you used to have ever been on it, but if you go on War Thunder, you can use a 3D model. And it's like x-rays, it shows you the armor layout, the thickness, where all this, like, it's pretty, it's pretty fucking close to life,

you know what I mean? So like, people laughing going, oh, you've got stats from War Thunder, and it's like, it's not that bad, do you know what I mean? It's quite a good representation, like. Yeah, it's, I made a video, I'll probably post it Tuesday on the Patreon for free, because I'm going to be talking about it all the fucking time. But it's like, like you said, like the fucking the tanks versus our tanks isn't a thing, especially when you talk about like, studying and fighting and preparing and training for Russian doctrine. And we just did Sino talk as well. And he explained, like, China's got a whole completely different doctrine than this. And it's that deep battle and everybody's talking about Bakhmut. And it's like, when you

think about like, as we as Westerners, and the great Englishmen think about warfare, it's kind of like Blitzkrieg, where we combine arms maneuver warfare through the enemy, and we do a thunder run to Baghdad, right? Like, we're just trying to topple the government, get the key, even that's what Putin tried, but they fucking sucked, and they failed miserably, because, you know, what happened. But this Bakhmut situation is what's going to end up happening to every single brigade is where they they go for the weak points. And that's what happened in February is you saw this pulse of an attack, right? And it's like, all the the entire forward line of troops was attacked, they found a weak point in Bakhmut, they exploited it, they surrounded it. And now there's an entire

brigade, it's going to be surrounded and slaughtered in Bakhmut. Meanwhile, they're actually, if you look at the map already breaking off and starting to form war encirclements. And so it's like, you're not just fighting tank on tank, you're these Russians are trying to like sneak around and maneuver and like encircle you and fight you from behind the right and the left and now number you doesn't matter if the guy to your right has a mozen, and the guy in front of you has a mozen, you got to shoot two guys who are surrounding you. Same thing with a tank and like I talked to, I'll have him on here, but I know a cab scout from the 90s who was talking about that. And that's how they used to fight is he's like, we were prepared in the fold of gap in Germany, to dip,

die in place. He's like, we were prepared to fight T 55s, T 60s, then the T 70s, like they were going to throw their shit conscripts at us. And then they were going to throw the better tanks and the better tanks. And by the time, you know, we, if we could withstand all that, it was going to be, yeah, it's going to be a fucking, you know, T 80s, but it's like, even with the Abrams and like the Scouts and they were kind of wargaming it, they're like, you just going to have to keep backing up as this shit comes on. Cause like, yeah, it's a T 62, but it's like, when there's three T 62s to your one Abrams, and they're all maneuvering around you, it's like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, and you got to back up. But the Ukrainian high command seems to be like,

no, no, no, no, no, no, stay put. It's like, what the fuck do you mean? Stay put. I'm outnumbered like three to one. It just reminds me like, like, I mean, obviously the trenches, it's similar to one, but it just reminds me like, you know, when you see sort of like world one films and you've got all the blokes are just like crying and shell shocked. And like, they're all in fucking rag, like they're all in absolute turmoil. And you just got one bloke stood behind going, hold the line. That's what it's like. It's just like, Zelensky, he's just stood behind and going, hold the line. And it's like, yeah, we're all fucking dying here, but he's like, don't go fuck, hold the line. It's mental, right? You know what I mean? But like, going into the Cold War stuff, you mentioned

there's a good podcast. I listened to it during freedom called the unconventional soldier. And they're from 473 battery, if you've ever heard of them, special observers in the artillery. And in the Cold War, they had to stay behind observation posts, where they just live underground for like weeks and just calling fires. Like that's, that's sort of, yeah, like you said, with the dying place stuff, it's sort of similar to that where they just let the Russians go over the top of them and then just start calling fires on like the C2 elements and stuff. It's pretty interesting. And then the guy, we're going to have him on, but yeah, he talked about that because that was like a secondary. If they survived, they're like, all right, this is how you

shit in a plastic bag and live off the land. It's like, they can't even find your poo. And it's like, ah, oh, this sucks. Like we were, we were trained even as like NATO to be like completely overwhelmed by the Russian wave. So it's fucking hilarious that they're like, we can hold them and NATO's like, the fuck you can. We didn't even think we could hold them. So it's, it's weird. It's, it's, it's getting a little silly. And so it's interesting to look at the, uh, that narrative shift from everyone being Slavo Ukraine to, uh, like a TikTok video of Ukrainian soldiers just enjoying themselves. And they're like, we're spending our tax dollars on this. It was like, aren't you supposed to be fighting a war? And it's all out of Bakhmut, all these videos coming out. So it's either like,

because the average American, like the average men, I've mentioned this before, the average Midwest goober after 9 11 thought being racist was being patriot. And so it's the same thing with Ukraine. They're just going like, we're spending our tax dollars on this. There's potholes in the road. And the amount of like veterans, current serving military, just average passerby, instead of kind of like show slowly shifted against Ukraine, not because they're pro Russia. They're just like, I'm so over it. So at what point does it come down to say like, yeah, we're done. Like no more. That's like, I guess for the bigger question, because, you know, it's always the elected officials actually coming out and doing the decree, but it's

the support dwindling. And that's a big topic no one wants to talk about. So that's why those old the mean, the mill mean pages keep referencing that, which all Russians are all conscripts and they're bad. Ah, the same narrative from, you know, 13 months ago. But like, what's the line? Because Cody and I know how it is here in the US, but I'm sure it's similar in the UK. I think yeah, I think it's just a sort of general kind of fatigue. I mean, there's a lot of other shit going on. I'm not going to sort of yet make a commentary about the state of Britain, the public too much. But I think there's a lot of other stuff going on. People are struggling. People are struggling to pay for regular stuff. I don't think they really are quite as fussed

anymore. Your average person just isn't. I feel like the kind of people care anymore are kind of autists like us and fucking naffo people on Twitter. Actually, not that many people are still following it. Yeah, like I go up. That happened like the problem we made. So I'm sorry. Well, let's say the naffo guys kind of the crack Cody and I up because they're the ones going like, Oh, we're in Ukraine. We're fighting the enemy. Please buy our coins and patches. And you go go to back move. They're like, No, I'll die. I think I think they're a big reason why a lot

of people are coming away from supporting Ukraine as well. Some of them they're so bitter and like generally just like toxic people, you know what I mean? I'm not saying all of them to know a few of them are right, but some of them are genuine like really awful people. But yeah, going back to that like in the UK, sort of like when I was a public mate or whatever. And some of them are like what Ukraine's like still going on. Like it's not really an under news anymore. Like it's not the news aboard a bit now they've just moved on to like whatever else is interesting or gaining views, you know what I mean? So like some people genuinely don't even realize it's still happening. Like that's that's sort of what it's like over here. I'd say

really it's pretty much the same. It's wild. I'll say that much. From my point of view, anyway, I think that kind of naffo movement kind of gate keeps it a bit. That's fucking weird because like I took a kind of break from this from about August to December. When I came back and like all these like little fucking dogs. It kind of gate keeps it to me because it's kind of like you have to reach a level of like zealotry or purity that they kind of maintain. And if you don't reach that, well then you don't really support Ukraine and they sort of push people away, I think. I don't like any sort of thing like that. And I noticed it on our side where it's, you know, some of the bigger pages

on Twitter and Instagram or even Facebook or NGO. Well, if you don't support them, they'll try to have like a jihad against you. They're like, he's got to go. Oh, it's not the narrative. He's got to get out of here. Like, oh, you know, a Zelensky quote talking about Bakhmut, got to get out of here. Like it's, but yes, the naffo guys that are just gate keeping is a good way to put it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Maybe I'm just, maybe I'm skewed because a lot of the really pro Russian accounts blocked me back like by about May time. Maybe I'm only seeing like one side of it. I don't know. I think I've started to get, I got, I got blocked by a lot of Russian pages, but I'm starting to get blocked more by, by a naffo just because just some of the absolute like

bollocks you read on Twitter, which is not true. And like, I don't care what side you're on, like, the way I've always thought is logic and facts. And like, it doesn't matter what you, I don't care about your feelings, I care about factual information. And I'll correct these like actually lies I see on Twitter. And they just instantly start like, to start grabbing off of me, I get blocked. I'm like, I'm just, I'm showing you the truth. I'm showing you what's right. I'm giving you factual information. I'm showing you that you're wrong. And you don't like that. Whenever they're like, their view and what they're saying completely changes based on if you identify as a video is one side or the other. I'm sure you saw around about like April

last year, there was a video came out of like a bunch of Ukrainian soldiers standing beside like a BMP. It was like a Russian BMP on the side of the road had been abandoned. It was up there Kiev or whatever. And the tanks approaching up the road and all the guys are sitting there and they're all like fucking waving at it and stuff like that. And then it just opens fire on them. And it's fucking horrific. And the first stuff that came out was a lot of people being like, this is a Ukrainian tank blows up Russian soldiers. And I said from the fucking outset, they were Ukrainian. And I said it was friendly fire incident. It was a Ukrainian tank. And then like more videos came out, more angles and stuff like that. And sure enough,

oh, they were Ukrainian troops. And sure enough, the tank was a T 64 BV. And it was near Kiev. And the only Russian troops that were using T 64s were like, you know, separatist DPR troops. And there was a big fucking blotch on the front of the tank. And everyone said, oh, no, that's a V. It's not a V. It's the digital camera on a Ukrainian tank. And I like put a load of pictures to show it. But as the narrative changed on that thing, when it was a Russian tank, or sorry, when the Ukrainian tank, then everyone thought it's fucking class. When it was a Russian tank, then everyone thought, oh, no, that's bullshit. When people thought it was friendly fire, then they're like, oh, this is really sad again. It just fucking

oscillates it just based on what they thought the tank was. That would go ahead, Matt. Tell them the story. So, uh, yeah, about that, about that same time. Yeah, it was, yeah, that video came up and some kids sent it to me. It was like, oh, would you like to do a joint post to boost each other's pages? You know, it was early days of the war. And I was like, yeah, sure, it's this one. And so I post immediate shadow bin, like the page stagnated almost immediately after that. Yeah, it was locked at 24,300. You were shadow banned for eight months. He posted that video and I was like, wow, that's excessive. And then like three months later,

I was like, we had to like sit down, Matt. I was like, when did this happen? Because like his followers were going like up 300,000 followers a week and losing a thousand followers a week. He was like, hey, did you see that post? I'm like, what fucking post? And he's like, this post and I'm like, dude, I unfollowed you. And why am I following a Korean K-pop guy now? He's like, what the fuck? So like my follower account didn't move, but like Instagram was like redirecting it. And I was like, every, every like three weeks I was texting Matt, I was like, yeah, I unfollowed you again. He's like, what the fuck? I'm like, yeah, Croto and got it happened to me on the same video. And I went, so I had like 14,000 followers at the

time. And I was putting up posts, I was getting like 10 likes. And like, I was on my personal page and I couldn't even search up my page. It was like, it just got fucking nuked for it. It was a rough one. I think because when it came out and here's something I noticed really early on, and this is more like just like an opinion piece. If you came out and posted a video of a Ukrainian UAV just nuking a column of Russian tanks, money, if you had anything hinting towards like a Russian kill the Ukrainian gone, the amount of the amount of DMs I got early in the war, because there was all like the Russians didn't really shit. It was all the Ukrainians just, you know, smoke checking

Russians. And it was pretty cool. You know, it's pretty cool to watch, you know, fuck the Russians. But then I posted one video of a Russian UAV smoke checking a high Mars. And everyone's like, oh, could you post such a hateful thing? It's like, what? People are dying. Like, yeah, it's all war. I've come up with a theory that I call to myself just Schrodinger's Ukrainian or Schrodinger's Russian. Right. And the point being that there's a video put up, right, and it's some soldier and you get shot, usual kind of thing, or it's a tank and it gets blown up. Whenever people tell themselves, or it's Russian, and they're like pro Ukrainian, they're cheering. Whenever people tell themselves

it's Ukrainian, and they're pro of the other side, then they're all fucking happy. And there's another thing is like, if they just tell that they can just tell themselves, Oh, the guys, they survived. Because I don't know, I think they survive. And it's kind of like, they'll go on believing that and they make themselves happy because they think he survived. Whilst the other side hates that side. So they now believe that they're dead. And we have no way of knowing because we don't have any more video evidence. So I call it Schrodinger's Russian because one side thinks the guy's still alive and all the intents and purposes he is. And the other side, he's dead. It's just one video. There's one video I saw. And I posted it back when I was just being a goober to throw

a war porn on Instagram. But it was, it was a, it was a guy with like an M240 Bravo. And he got shot just right in the chest with a GoPro, nicked off the GoPro, killed this guy. And the first time I posted, I was like, Hey, this is a Russian video with a, for some whatever reason, likes, you know, everything. As soon as I said that it was Ukraine, it got flagged for hate speech. They're like, Yeah, you know, you can't say that. And I was like, Jesus. Yeah, ban for racism. I was like, look at his uniform. I was like, I actually, it was within five minutes. I posted that I said it was Russian. And I was like, No, actually, it's not even the right uniform. Why would a Russian have an M240 Bravo? It was like, that's obviously Ukrainian threw that up.

Gone. That's just like circling back to what FV is saying. It's like, these are people that just don't want to be objective. And I'm talking both sides here. It's like, when they believe one thing, they'll just fucking get their teeth into it. It's even though it's just objectively wrong. It's a fuck, man. It's, well, Zelensky came out early and said that he didn't want that shit posted. He's like, no, don't post any Ukrainians dying. And I, you guys, he called it a crime against the state. Yeah, if you post war porn of Ukrainians dying. So like, but then again,

like Russians don't have phones or GoPro. So we don't get to see that much. But you guys know how I am. I'm, I'm firmly in the camp and it's just me camping alone with my hut dogs and pop-up tent that I want to see the Ukrainian numbers. Like the general staff of the, like CJS CJCS Millie said, it's like a hundred thousand dead. And then the Ukrainians are like, no, no, no, it's only 15,000. And that was back in October. Like nobody knows how many Ukrainians are dead. So I'm in like, I'm in the middle ground. I'm like, how this is war, this war is going to go until the CIA tells me it's like, it's 195,368.2. Like, where's the point two? Well, have a leg to begin with. Like, what?

So this morning, and you're probably going to like this, there was a headline that came out, and it was like, oh, Russian KIA and Bakhmut is released by like Ukrainian officer. Ukrainian officer was fired immediately. But it was something like two to one KIA to the Russians, like the Ukrainians are fucking murdered. Yeah, they're getting murdered. And it was like, and it was coupled with a tweet I saw that said, you know, Ukrainian is throwing their finest into Bakhmut. And all the comments were like, why would you do that if there's no strategic value there? You're like, Hey, just a quick question. It's like, I'm not, I was never in the military. I'm kind of an idiot. But why would you put your best guys in the city with no strategic value?

And then for your country's leader to come out and say, Oh, if we lose this city, we're fucked. You're like, Oh, so you're telling me the Russians have three to one odds with numbers, and on top of that, no one gives a fuck about the conflict anymore. It's like, it's like, whoa, UFO boys are like, are quitting. Do you remember the one I sent? Yeah, that's an on Twitter. And what was it 30 to one? Oh, in Bakhmut? Was it? And like, Ukraine kills 30 Russians per one Ukrainian. And that's, that's three times as much as we saw in Afghanistan or Iraq. Yeah. And like, that is absolutely insane to even,

to even like, if you're gonna, if you're gonna blog it, if you're gonna lie, at least make it believable. 30 to one. That's like the best odds like that. That's like, that's like the battle of rogues drift. You know what I mean? That's like, you know, Ukrainian soldiers wiped out a platoon of Russians. Yeah, it was almost as if bloke's just killing like whole companies, you know, I mean, like, what's going on? Who's coming up with these numbers, like, rogues stretch the bunch of fucking Russian, the shovels piling. Jesus, man. That's simply insane, man. No, because you posted you sent that to me and I about lost my shit because like, I was, I was in those targeting meetings in Afghanistan. So I knew the numbers because General Miller, the commander of Afghanistan

was all about numbers. He loved death counts. Like when I was there, Ranger regiment went through and three month rotations. And they combined killed 10,000 Taliban fighters over a nine month period and like targeting meetings and all this shit. And you're just like, yeah, there's like slaughtered like 50,000 and buck boot. I'm like, bro, the amount of work we put in to kill 10,000 dudes and sandals and mud huts was alarming. Like, you're not going to forget. Well, if you've seen the, you know, like those daily reports that come up from the Ukrainian MOD and it says like the number of liquidated personnel is the 10. Yeah. It's it was sitting at 100,000 Russians on like the 28th of December. And it's now sitting as of today, something like

170,000. So they're saying that they've, so basically they're saying the rush has taken what over a third of the casualties of the invasion in the past two months. I can't see it. I mean, do prisoners count? Like I don't, well, they say this is the thing, the term is liquidated personnel. That sounds like dead to me. And it's like, they had 900 a day. It's just fucking huge. It's like a battalion wiped out every day. Yeah. I mean, dude, that's, that's, that's catastrophic, like catastrophic numbers. But if we, if you do take that seriously, right? Like that's what something Matt and I were talking about. We've hit on this on the paid episodes, but it's like, people don't understand that Wagner, the reason why they broke through and buck moot

was because they had access to the prisons. Like they were just throwing prisoners with like, here's a AK, one mag and a grenade, go to work. And like the captured prisoners were just like, I got one week of training and crawling through the woods and topped up on fentanyl and morphine and all types of shit. And then got told to run through the woods with my AK and my grenade. Like they were, and people are like, look at all these Wagner mercenaries dying. Like, bro, they're all like the people that Russia doesn't even want. Like imagine if the American prison system did that. That's, we have the highest incarcerated. That's, that's like a core. That's like a core of people.

This is like another, another bit of a myth as well is like, I mean, it depends what trade you're going into, I imagine, but the Russians aren't just getting like a week of training and they're getting sent off. So I got some sort of, like inside knowledge. And they're getting so good up there. So so mobilized and conscripts get six months of tank training. So that's, that's for, that's just for tanks. I don't know what it's like if you're going to the engineers or the infantry, I don't know how that works. This is tank specific, but within that, you get like a few weeks at the range and stuff, you know what I mean? Like six months of training, that's pretty

good. That's, that's all right. Yeah. I mean, that's like, I don't, I don't know if that's six months full tank or six months, including basic training. I don't know how it works, but that's not bad. They're not just getting a week like people think and getting shot to shovel and go in there, go on mate. You know what I mean? They do that for our US Marines. They have like Marine combat training. It doesn't matter if you're a mechanic or intel or comma or anything like that. You get these 28 days total of combat training. They're like, well, you, you can successfully clear rooms, do mount training and liberate a country if you want it to based on this training. And if the Ukrainians or the Russians are getting

six months, that's pretty good, man. Like that's, even if they're just getting, say, I don't know, three months of combat training, like boot camp, essentially marksmanship skills, and then three months of tank, like that's more than Ukraine's getting. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's pretty good. I mean, like I said, I don't know the ins and outs. That's just what I got. But it's basically, it's basically six months. So I don't know because it depends on crew positions and stuff like that. Like some crew positions don't need more than others like specifically commanded. They'll need all more time for the tactics training and stuff. But yeah, I mean, six months overall, I don't think I don't think that's.

I don't know if you or tank diary have seen anything on top of how Russia trains their guys. I've only seen a few videos come out of like a Russian NCO just punching a private who couldn't hit a target. And I was like, yeah, respectable. Yeah, I can see that. But I do remember, I think, I sent it to Cody. It was all con as to send me something like it was PII on Russian off, but soldiers. Oh, yeah. And I have a I have a terabytes worth of Russian TTPs. And it's so funny to open it up. Like, you know, you throw it at a translate and the Russians are going an ancient Greece a phalanx is a combat formation used. And I was like, Oh, they're doing the same thing we are. Like they're no different.

And so it's if they're training the same way we are, they probably looked heavily into marine combat training, you know, basic constant school ranger shit. They're like, yeah, whatever the Americans did in Syria and Iraq, Iraq again, and Iraq again, and then Afghanistan. Let's just do that. Well, I mean, they've had 20 years to watch us. They've had 20 years to just study the West. I mean, like when you if you actually look at what we've had to study, it's not really been that much like Grozny, like both Chechen wars were internal. So there's not much we could really gain on that, you know, I mean, Georgia imagine it was quite a bit looked into there, which was eight days. Dude, that was an intense eight days.

You can talk them a lot with how bad they were in Georgia. The Russians came out. Russians came out with a forced modernization after Georgia. And so they wanted a completely professional force after that because they're like, Hey, conscripts don't really do a good job. But I want to say it was like Chatham House or Rand Institute study award came out and said like, the Russians couldn't meet quota because no one wanted to join the army. So they had like a mixed composure of half conscript, half professional. But yeah, they use away Georgia is like a dry run for Ukraine. And the funniest thing is, I think a lot of people forget that the president of Georgia at the time became the governor of

Odessa, Ukraine. And he went back to Ukraine and said, they're common. And Ukraine said, go fuck yourself. So he was pretty honest. I remember, I remember in a story as well about conscription, like, just like a funny story about it. So one of my mates is, is like quite in the know with stuff like this and he does it as a job and that. And I was saying, how does conscription work? Like, how did he, how did he get you in? Like, what if you ignore it? And he said, well, some people just don't answer the door. And they'll just eventually walk up. But he said, one thing they do do is we send prostitutes and stuff like the, the MOD or higher prostitute, send them to a bloke's house, knock on the bloke's house, answer the door. And then

two boys come around the corner of the paperwork, like, come on, big lad, let's get down the office, mate. Let's get your kid issued. So yeah, I mean, not all of them, not all of them want to do it. I mean, obviously it's conscription. And there's a lot of people who try and get out of it. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, it depends, it depends on where the art is. Everyone forgets that conscription is never a popular move. Because in World War One, Canada had the conscription crisis where the soldiers, potential soldiers, the men just wouldn't go. They're like, I'm not going to France. And they had a problem because they were supposed to feel bodies and divisions, and they didn't go. And so the government had to have

a reform in the late 19, late 1920s, I want to say, of how they addressed how conscription worked. But also Americans in Vietnam, like, those guys went to Canada, they're like, I'm not fighting. I don't want to go die for a pointless cause. And so in Russia, it's really funny to see that. Cody, what was it? Something like, like a million men fled to Central Asia and like Georgia and all these countries, it was something. It was a lot crazy. Yeah, I understand. And they were trying to leave. And it's like, well, the Russians don't want to. But the Ukrainian men tried to. And unless you had money to get out of it, they were like, Hey, bitch, you're going to block me. Yeah. It was, it was like, uh, we were recent. Oh, look, uh, I'm one second.

Am I good now? Anyway, yeah, we were researching it and we were talking about, because the M4 started showing up. And we were like, Oh my God, yeah, stealing Delilah or something like that. We're going to go down that road. But all I was going to say was they showed up with an ACOG on them. And then they were M4s with an ACOG in a Sarah Cote magazine. And I ain't going to go down the other route we went. But I was saying, I was like, that ACOG could be taken off, sold to the the Vori, which are Georgia and Russian, Ukrainian, Eastern European mafioses. You could take the ACOG off of that M4, sell it to them. And two of you could get out of the country. And so like, if you and your fucking mate, they fucking like, Hey, bro,

they're never going to believe what I got. And you just like, hold up an ACOG. Like, we're fucking out of here. We are done. We're going to France. We're going to party all fucking summer, bang hot chicks and fucking smoke grass on the French shores. Like, it's either that or, you know, go die for your country. Like, fuck you. I don't know if it was on, I don't know if it was on the last podcast bonus episode or something. But, you know, if you tanked out or you might like this, I saw a video of Russian Marines in Bakhmut, like storming a building, but they had like airsoft optics on their weapons. So everyone's like, oh, Russia is using airsoft optics. And I was thinking like,

Amazon cut off shipments to Russia on February 25th. That means their battlefield captures from the Ukrainians. Ukrainians are using airsoft optics. The Russians are taking those. I was like, dude, I was like, let's think one layer deeper. You were so stoked, bro, because you have not seen any Marines and you're just like, there they are. Oh, I can't believe Russian Marines do anything. I get so excited. I'm like, finally. You just think. Because all the Ukrainian ones fucking died. So it's like this is what we got. There's no Marines left. We've got to get a Cossack Gundion for like, you're the closest thing we have. That's a huge fan. Huge fan.

It was something you guys were saying earlier, which was kind of interesting, was like, the distinction of like, air assault Marines has just gone out the fucking window. Doesn't make any sense. Like I, from a Marine Corps light infantry background, it doesn't make any sense to be air assault and airborne qualified and have like a Bradley to take you into battle. You're like, that doesn't make any sense. Don't shit on my airsoft team. Don't don't do that, Matt. That's what's happening. This is something that I brought up last time. And then it's, it's that Soviet hangover of air assault. It doesn't mean air assault or we see it.

Like the way I see air assault and the rest of these will be like, is Paris, you know what I mean? It's, it's blokes with massive Bergens on just, just, just walking everywhere. That's what they did. That's what Paris did. You might have a few, a few drop like Land Rover women or whatever. But Soviet and like, this is right across the Eastern block is well, like Kazakhstan still have him. All the former Soviet countries still have these aerosol brigades, which are full of BMDs and a tank company of like T80s. It's just, I think it's just the name. As far as I can tell, it's just the name because the Ukraine has got loads of aerosol brigades, but they don't have the planes to drop them in. So it's weird. What was it? The 18th Airborne Division in World War

II, they were used as amphibious landing personnel. 18th Airborne Corps. So it's actually funny you mentioned that because the 101st and the 82nd are actually getting like small tanks. Like, we're going to get like a small tank battalion. And it's like the, the whole objective of the 101st and the 82nd is to season airfield and then our fucking C17s come in and the tanks come out. Right. Like we secure the airfield and people fucking pour out of there. And that's the name of the game. And now like you're shitting on them and you're like, yeah, they got fucking tanks, put a bunch of fucking pussies. You're supposed to leg it. Like, you know, but now we're bringing tanks into it. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And so it's, it's such a clusterfuck,

bro. Because like even like, like as a paratrooper, we take like great pride and like, oh, you're a fucking leg, right? Like you have to leg it. You have to walk everywhere. But like, actually, we leg it the most. Like we, we fall out of the plane. We fall out of the fucking helicopter. And then like, we don't have our Humvees. We don't have our fucking MRAPs. And so like, dudes will come to like the 101st and the 82nd. And they'll be like, I have never run so much in my goddamn life. Like I'm about to quit. I am a fucking staff sergeant. Like they'll come from like mechanized or heavy inventory. And they're like, I'm quitting, bro. Fuck this place. All we do is fucking walk. It's funny. Like my brother was with the 82nd for a while and I used to go over there and they

would bully me because like, oh, you run three miles for a PFT. We run four. And you're like, isn't the army standard two? And you're like, all right, so why are you running more than me? You fucking leg. What do you do after you jump out of the plane? Walk. Fuck and walk with a broken leg. 300 pounds on your back there, pal. Yeah, like trying to find all your friends who are scattered in the trees and fucked in the winds. But yeah, now how long we've been going at this? Like an hour and a half. An hour and I think so. Yeah. Yeah. A little brits are tired. I can see it in their faces. They're so sweepy. Do you want to tuck in? Yeah, go on. All right. Yeah, I guess we're going to wrap this up. If, you know, AFP,

recognition and tank tower, you want to plug their pages, then we'll like wrap up here. So yeah, I mean, I'm all dating the app again. I'll throw that out there. Got a lot of Chinese stuff coming. All the Chinese medium maneuver brigade wheeled family. Let me let me help you out here. Let me help you out here. Do you like tanks? Do you like painting tanks? Do you like identifying tanks? Yeah, they're not get enough fucking tanks in your life as your wife tired of hearing about tanks. Go to AFP recognition. He'll be your friend. It's a friendship simulator. You follow. You pay seven bucks for his app and then you and AFP can sit there and compare tank scores. And he's probably going to win because he's been in that fucking shed too long.

That's how you plug in that, baby. That's how you sell it. That's better than what I could do. Wait till we have sponsors, Merle, like brought to you by NordVPN. If you ever wanted to go to Epstein's Island by yourself. NordVPN. We all watch porn, but there's probably something you don't want the government to know you're researching. Get NordVPN. Hi, those disgusting search wiki baby history. Question of the outcomes and all of your activities. Set your location to the Kremlin. All right. Yeah. Well, thanks for having us on. It was good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Well, it's very fun. It's very fun. But uh, all right. Yeah. So, uh, I guess we're going

to do our plugs here. Um, we do have the Patreon go on there. This one's probably going on the Patreon. This is a free one. All the guests are free. We don't take money. Unlike Jake. All right. So the first 50 people to sign up, it's four dollars and 25 cents. That's a buck a week. If you don't have a dollar a week, we probably shouldn't be friends anyway. All right. You need to go watch some Andrew Tate, get your life together, start lifting, go to Planet... Wash some Gary Vee. Yeah, wash some Gary Vee. Hustle. Hustle. Fucking get a dollar. Give it to your boys so we can do things like video game night. I want to do cash prizes. I want to see if anybody can beat AFV recognition

and tank diary as the British and Americans on Wargame or War... Is it Wargame Red Dragon? Yeah. I'm going to make... Give me money so I can buy a heavyweight intercontinental belt, tag team. It's going to be a cheap plastics on bitch, but I will mail that to you if you can beat these two tank heads. I want to do fun shit like that. The stuff that your wife won't do with you. Go to Patreon. Give us a dollar. Give us five dollars a week. I don't care. Give us fucking money so we can do cool shit together and be friends. You don't have to be alone with autism. You can have autistic friends. Go to Patreon. We have more episodes over there. We have Book Club as well. We're reading Matterhorn. It's about U.S. Marines in Vietnam. It is amazing. I love that

book. I based my entire personality off of one officer in that book and he dies. So hopefully that's around the corner so I don't have to keep living much longer. Matt, take it away. You're over 27 there, man. Oh yeah. The 27 Club. Anyways, yep. So also on top of the Patreon, we have more of our analytical hot takes. If you ever remember the Krooto in days where we would say something like, you know, Ukraine and the Brink of Collapse or Death by a Thousand Cuts, we have more long form posts on top of the Patreon. So we're going to tease those on the Instagram on KidBad Conversations. And then if you go over there, you can definitely comment, like, subscribe, and then tell your friends because we're going to have a lot more fun

conversations here soon. Bye. Talk to you guys later. Bye. Bye. Thank you.