Kump - Ep. 180 UNGRATEFUL SPIES

Episode Date: August 4, 2024

Ray and Lucie discuss using the C.I.A. at the Olympics, prisoner exchanges, horse medals, and much more. Sign up at https://www.patreon.com/RayKump for an extra episode every week! Follow Kump on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/raykump Kump Hand Merch https://bonfire.com/store/kump/ Follow Ray on Sound Cloud https://on.soundcloud.com/QbP8

Hello and welcome to come. Hello. Hello, Lucy. Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Amazing.

We're in week two of the Olympic Games. I can't get enough of this crap It's just Bad Mitten And European handball And croquet That's not the Olympics I'm just I got a feat for that

It's got me excited about world sport in general I'm just but I'm pretty fired up Because what were we watching yesterday morning We were watching Horses Horses You were about to not remember horses. I was about to forget if it was,

I didn't remember if it was dressage or some other kind of horse horse. Justage? You know dressage? I don't know dressage. I thought that was what you put on a spinach. I'm pretty sure dressage is like fancy horse dancing. Fancy horse that. Like it's when you,

it's when you're your horse like you kind of like skip around. Hip hop dressage or no, this is not hip hop. horses, Lucy. We were not watching, you, you couldn't remember if we were watching hip hop horses or not. We were watching, I don't know what you call it, horses that hop. They jump things. Yeah, they jump fences. It was fun.

I mean, it's fine. I like horses. You like horses a lot. I love horses. I could take them or leave them. I think they're nice creatures, but I'm not about to, I don't know what women. I mean, I think I know what it is, but I'm not allowed to say what is women and horses. I mean I you think it's all about the you don't say it yeah I've said it many times and I've paid

in the price for that I've been ostracized for many a party because I've brought up why women love horses all right but the reality but regardless they're nice to watch so you know I turned it on in the morning and I let you watch the horses and I got into it here's a problem They don't name, I mean, the horses have names, I guess, but the medals go with the people. Yeah. How the hell of the medals go to the people? I'm used to horse, I bet some money on horse racing, and, you know, and you bet the horse, you don't even know.

I mean, I'm not even allowed legally to know the jockey's name, I think. And the horse is the winner. The horse is the winner, not the guy riding him, not the guy, you know, whipping him in the neck. You know, it's Cracker Barrel Joe Or a Doctor Who reunion party Or whatever these horses' names are Or Escape from Reality You lost a lot of money on that horse, didn't you?

No, no, I won a lot of money on Escape from Reality. Oh, okay. I lost a lot of money on all the other horses I bet on. Right, well, these are lovely horses And one day they'll be glue or whatever Or put out the stud But they get, but for a minute, they get the glory And that's just when a bunch of, you know, dirtbags at an OBB are, you know, or, you know,

glued to the screen watching them. I think that if we brought degenerate gambling to Olympic horse trials. Yeah. It would make them, you know, force him to be honest a little bit. Well, we might need to because I'm about to get some pushback probably. And you're about to, and these push are back, people are going to, like, have to sit down. Because I can hear people, well, you don't understand. You're hopping these fences, you know, these little Eiffel Tower fences they put up.

And I got, you know, I'm a job, like, whoever these, you know, call them jockeys, whatever they call them. I can tell you, you know, these people, no, I'm the one who has to hop the horse and, like, pull the reins. It's like, here's a problem. I saw a 59-year-old woman yesterday riding a horse hopping these things. No sport should be able to be performed by a 59-year-old man or woman. If you're 59 and you're, and you're competing for a gold medal, that's not, you're not doing it. It's the horse. Yeah.

If 59, you're holding, you're lucky you're alive. You're lucky that horse has thrown you into Christopher Reeves, you know, uh, dinner party. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? If you know what I mean. So I don't know. I mean, what's your, where do you come in on this? Um, I agree with you.

I mean, I think the horse, uh, deserves way more credit. I, I was just trying to look up whether or not Olympic horse riders are called jockeys. Yeah. They should be called passengers. Yeah. They should all have to be tiny like jockeys are. They should have to be legally, um, you know, they should have to be below three foot. Yeah.

I mean, they actually could believe that it took some strength on their part to pull the wanes up and make the horse go. I think it should only be allowed to be performed by children with pejoria. That thing that Mori Parvich used to, you know, hawk to the TV audience. It should, you know, hey, hello, Maury. You know, those should be the people who get, you know, a lick of glory. Yeah. And we, but we don't name them.

That's a fair. It's enough that they're there. They won't. They won't complain these pejoria kids. This is the best thing that's ever happened Right Because more impoverished one after year It's probably better for them if they have

You know, pseudonyms Sure You don't want to get them getting harassed No, I mean, it will happen You know, we don't want the pejoria kids Getting swatted I mean, does that happen now Or Olympic athletes getting, I hope not

Swatted? Yeah I hope so You hope so? I think they should include that in the kind of like pre-show in the pre show Yeah

It's like it's something that like all Olympians know is going to be a challenge for that I would I would hide my name in the Olympics Because I would not want to be I'd be I'd be afraid that like you know If I would like be playing water polo And I smash the ball in someone's face And all of a sudden you know my

My family is being uh you know Some got some Some overweight cops shoving a battering ram down or down or dilapidated door You know that would actually be a good solution to this problem because like some people you know there's this this controversy about like should these Olympic athletes should should they be able to claim you know mental health issues to get out of you know performing their duties to their nation sure and you know I think that

it would kind of balance the scales a little bit if like all Olympic athletes were gangstocked you know year round you think a CIA you you think the CIA should the vote because none of this it should be done by the people no The people are horrible at this stuff. Yeah. You know, none of your vigilante Olympic support. That's not neat. We're talking about should the CIA, you know, do what they usually do to, like, people who are, you know, questioning BP oil or that, or Chevron, you know, who are saying Chevron poisoned people in South America somewhere.

And then the CIA gets together and, like, you know, makes the guy thinks he's going insane and then put some of the Panamanian prison or something. should they devote those resources, clandestinely to the Olympics in some way? Yeah. I don't know. Maybe you're for it. I think, look, I think they should be told that's going to happen. Who?

Other countries? If you don't want to be a gold medal winning Olympic athlete because you might get gangstocked, you know, that's up to you. Right. But if you sign on for this, just know that sometimes there's going to be people drilling holes in your walls, looking at you through them, blasting your body with radiation. Wow. Okay. So not just making you, so actually radiating people. You really, I mean, I've never seen you support the CIA so vigorously. Interesting. So we, so you, because typically the CIA doesn't tell you ahead of time we're going to be doing stuff. But you think Biden, like, you know, in one of his last official acts should, you know, announce, you know, for the 2020. I mean, it'll be fitting because, I mean, not the next one, but the next summer one, I think is L.A., right?

right, 2028? Oh, right? You think he should say, hey, get ready for 2028 because I have the boys at Langley prepping every arena, every, every pommel horse with radiation guns, with toxic sludge in the barracks where you're going to stay. We'll have you staying on nuclear submarines and just, and just we're going to be spying. and like you better bring you better bring your best counter counter espionage uh whatever stuff

you need to smoke out our agents that would be an interesting thing that would be an interesting kind of level to this because we know it wants war like you know no one wants it to be like hey you know the men lost golden basketball huge upsets that we bombed you know whoever would be Germany or no um france you know that that's not fun but what if we like you know um just waterboarded some like some some people the coaches you know but whatever the CIA typically does because i mean they'll do it to our own people too it's not like we're just doing it to everybody

else's athlete how is that going to work now we don't even know what we're doing because now it's like and then because when somebody shows up and they say you know i'm feeling mentally fragile you can say no no shit everybody's feeling mentally fragile we've destroyed you all mentally right over the last year that's part of the game so okay so you think you think look I'm not saying that like some of these these these these quote mentally unwell athletes aren't faking it I can't say for sure they're not faking it that being said I don't know that the answer is to just torture everybody I'm not sure that solves the problem problem of this poor morale because the issue is morale right we don't want this you know um

whoever it would be michael phelps type going oh i'm sad you know i i might jump in the water in a way you don't want if you know what i mean in a way that isn't fun for you yeah and then uh and so we just waterboard i mean it would kind of be could you even waterboard michael phelps he has like his V-O-2 levels are like astronomical he can I mean I think he can breathe a waterboard yeah that's that would be see that that that that's the kind of drama that we're missing because you some you know you have to train not just to I mean I don't know what the point of your thing is but I kind of like that you have to also train to like do to um evade to to whatever with with with hold withstand torture yeah and you know you're

to train to, like, run really fast and to breathe through a waterboarding in order to win gold. Yeah. That can be fun. Not for the athletes, but fun for us. Yeah. But I don't think they should, like, well, I guess we're going to have to. I'm a little wary of, like, showing the waterboarding.

But then, then it can just, otherwise they can just fake it. Mm-hmm. It's just because it becomes WWE. And no one wants that in a world stage. No. A bunch of fake waterboarding, a fake Abu Ghraib. awful this is crazy well you really you really come into something so i mean uh but do you think you you think the jockeys need to be gang stalked and irradiated and exposed to

expose to harmful materials and they're not giving any credit yeah yeah and you know no love or know your name well welcome to the show uh speaking of stuff like that there was a uh because, you know, there were people who were actually tortured in this country. Well, I guess not technically, you know, but well-known. I got to say, we might have done a thing, me and Lucy. Yeah. Because if you checked out our Patreon this week, and I guess we might as well plug it while we're doing this, Patreon.com slash Raycomp.

Also, please like and subscribe, or else we'll be gangstocked. uh our page on our patreon we talked about uh the how there's a plea deal for the guys who did 9-11 cliche mohammed and others two other people i don't remember you know they're they're like the supporting cast he was a big guy and we uh we were skeptical of you know a the timing why is happening 25 years now and and you know what were they trying to hide why were they trying to have a plea deal why are trying to why were they trying to ram this through Yes. And I guess, I guess the Defense Secretary of America might listen to, as a Patreon member, perhaps. I can't say for sure. He's probably under an alias. But because they have abruptly, he's abruptly revoked the plea deal with alleged 9-11 mastermind KSM co-conspirators. So why have they done this? Do they quote our podcast in this? in a surprise memo quietly released Friday night

defense secretary Lloyd Austin said their responsibility for such a significant decision should rest with me only two days earlier the Pentagon announced that it had reached a plea deal with Khalid Sheikh Muhammad more commonly known as KSM and two other defendants accused of plotting

the 9-11 attacks Is that the only reason? Is he just being fussy? I want it to be my decision. Hey, I'm in charge imagine if he was doing this just to like just to show his own authority and somehow they ended up getting like let off yeah like the prosecutor whoever whoever he like you know is like uh well yeah you should arrest my you should arrest my permission i all i didn't so i mean we're gonna do cancel it yeah uh austin said he was withdrawing from the three pre-trial agreements which had taken the death penalty off the table for the three men uh prosecutors in the case have been discussing the possibility of a plea deal for more than two years. Again, I don't know what, what changed?

Was it, was it on, on the, was it the anniversary of 9-11 where we remember they existed? I don't know. I mean, they've been sitting in Guantanamo over 20 years and all of a sudden, we got to, you know, brush these guys into a death, a death-free cell,

for lack of a better term. Death-free cell. since the prison exchange for pleading guilty to all charges consuming conspiracy and the murder of 2976 people I mean that's a lot of people to kill yeah I mean that's like to not get a death penalty for that is I mean

it's bold because I mean they'll give that to you for you know anything these days you get death penalty for speeding now you can get it for if you're in certain states yeah I don't know based on nothing but I mean no they they like to you kill a cop you say the wrong thing more you're killing someone you can you can get that penalty oh yeah for sure 2100 people it's a lot of people yeah I don't that's why he wants to

withdraw it like because it does seem like they should be able to get them and give him it doesn't seem like there's going to be a trial it doesn't seem well it doesn't seem like there's going to be a trial period like it doesn't It's been 20 something. I mean, how many years do you need to build the case? I mean, the building's not there anymore. Like, you can't collect any more evidence. Were they combing around the Freedom Tower for the last 10 years?

Right. We were looking for this piece of debris. Like, it's not here anymore. No, but let me explain you what it is. It's a chunk of a battery. This is a new building. Get out of here. The plea deal announcement prompted a,

fierce backlash, including from both sides of the political aisle. And some groups representing 9-11 victims who have pushed for the U.S. government to pursue the death penalty for the worst attacks on U.S. soil since Pearl Harbor. You know, they're leaving us out of this, but, you know, I think we had our role to play. I, look, I mean, maybe it was more the groups representing 9-11 victims. I thought it was more because they just didn't want, like, you know, the defense attorney, like, doing a cross-examination going like and you know uh mr mitch mahomed what floor at langley was your office on he's like well in the third floor i kind of resented that it just looked bad so

like let's just get a plea deal going but i mean it doesn't seem like is there going to be a big trial now are they going to bring bin laden out that would be amazing wow if they if they if they if they you told i was in the water he was in the water that whole time but he was just like you know when you catch a fish but you keep them in like that is that something that happens I'm imagining like you catch a fish and it's hooked and his mouth is hooked and then you kind of just like put them in the in the like under like you know you hold them there in that position and you drag them while you're not the torture I'm just because to keep it fresh right

you want fresh fish right when you get out yeah I mean like and why don't they do that one it just drag why I don't mean like he's big like you know perfect storm George Clooney Mark Warburg ships they got like a you know 10,000 bass or whatever but I mean like if I'm a fisherman they got a little boat you know like Tony soprano right I'm fished with AJ and we catch a we catch a we catch a grouper a nice grouper we're gonna take home make grouper sandwiches you know like why can I just drag this fish by a big hook but it's a bigger hook like why can't take an anchor hook this is not what we're told this is really we're getting on a topic here I think you would have to have a house that's like right to

by the river, though. Why long would you be able to tug it along before you just had, you ran out of water? That's a good point. Maybe, maybe there can be added to the car, then there's a cooler with water that you drag. Yeah.

Defeats it on purpose. I think there are interests here that may not have been represented as fairly as aggressively as they should have been, he said. I mean, who what, at what this point, this is what, 23 years later, you're still running an organization for 9-11 victims, and your goal is not like, you know, hey, let's make sure this mesothelioma gets treated. It's like, we want blood.

It just seems odd. If I was a member of that group, I'd be livid at the guy running the group, Todd or whoever. They say the guy's name? Who runs this 9-11 victims group? 9-11 justice. Brett Eagleson. I mean, how is Brett Eagles? I mean, how is Brett Eagles? I mean, this guy has, how long he had his job for? This just seems like, you know, trust me, vote, give me one more term and I'll get KSM.

I'll get him dead. What is like, what is this even like, is that like a full-time job? There's nothing much to do, right? Yeah, I mean, he's the president, yeah. Oh, man, I don't want him accuse a guy who's having a victim's organization for being, like, you know, whatever that would be.

I'm not sure. Well, I'm accusing it on it. You think, I mean, of all the conspiracies about 9-11, the one, just as a guy trying to get it, man, I can milk these pieces. No, no one's saying the showers didn't fall, the planes weren't real, anything like that. It's all real, and I did it. Like, it milked these victims' families for 20 years. Oh, man. that would be

an interesting these plea deals should not perpetuate a system of closed door agreements where crucial information is hidden without giving the families of the victims a chance to learn the full truth I mean you're

you're holding the full truth come on when you you saw what happened full truth I mean maybe he's that maybe deep down maybe he's a truth or deep down I think if I was yeah I mean you know he should be but at this point even if you're a truth

you should be like look we get what you're doing give these people another couple hundred I mean I don't think of anything give him a couple hundred grand and then we'll shut up about it maybe's what he's trying to do I want to take over this organization and be like I'll get you I'll I'm going to get you all a hot tub one hot tub each it's not got any top of the line we're probably going to have to get you know it'll probably be like a you know last year's or whatever, I don't know, do they replace them every year? I'll look into it. It'll be a hot tub per family member lost.

Well, I mean, if you, look, if a family lost like three people, I mean, all the more reason they don't need two hot tubs, right? Like, three hot tubs. I mean, like, yeah, I don't think that makes sense. I mean, one, one household of people who lost family members gets a hot tub each, like per household of people who lost a family member or more, you know? Because, again, you've lost. If you, oh, we lost more people, so you need less space.

Sure. And I'm not happy about that, but, I mean, I don't get your argument that you need more hot tubs. Because, I mean, we're not paying for the electricity to generate these hot tubs for to run them. I mean, it's going to cost you a hell of a lot money to run three hot tubs. Yeah, well, you know, we were just thinking maybe we'd sell one or sell a couple. Well, that's just, come on. That's, that's, that's, we're getting you a hot tub. Not, you guess, you don't sell a gift on eBay.

I mean, if you do, you don't tell the person who's about to give it to you. I'm getting you an hot tub. I'm sorry that your children and your husband didn't make it. But it doesn't, I don't, don't make me sound harsh. Don't make me sound callous by saying, I don't, I don't, I don't, but come on, you, you, you're, man, you're trying to bilk me. I did a good thing. That guy was just, that guy spent 20 years trying to get, get some, get some guy killed. And then you had done the show for it.

I'm getting you a hot tub. And your first thing you say is, I want more hot tubs? Come on. This is ridiculous. I'm a good man. I'm a good man. Senator Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, warned that the plea deal sends a horribly bad signal at a very dangerous time. The world is on fire.

Terrorism is rampant. And we give a plea deal to the mastermind of 9-11. I mean, to be fair, I mean, that's, yeah, that guy was my thought. I mean, minus the world's full of terrorism. Look, I think it's a, look, it's a, I'm not all for the plea deal per se. More, I've said to why. I don't mean, but I do not, for a second, entertain the idea that there's any version of us that were soft on the people who did 9-11, unless you mean the CIA. But, I mean, the idea, like, oh, we didn't do enough.

now I'm not saying yeah no I'll say we didn't we did too much I mean unless you think you know Saddam Hussein had too many you think you think he was well you think he was

you think you think yeah maybe he was maybe I'm under maybe we've been fed a bunch of bull for years and and this was a thing with Saddam and hot tub companies and that's why Iraq happened look I think that we definitely did too much

to the people who didn't do it sure I mean I mean maybe there's a case to be made that we did too little to the people who did I think if I think if your wife is killed right in one of those movies where the guy's wife gets killed and you go into vendetta but the vendetta is you just you know uh going to the mall and opening fire I don't think you get to be like well I didn't get the guys though you know you lost your chance to get the guys I mean you did plenty you made your mark right you know I don't this is not you know uh But I get it. But again, this is why I said, I said, but I said, give them a hot tub. And I'll get it for them. Because no one needs, no one needs, these people being accused of being greedy. You know, oh, we're giving them money and then what are going to spend the money on?

No, like, look, a hot tub is a lovely thing that no one needs, right? So it's not going to, it's a luxury. It's a luxury. You get a little luxury. Look, you have a horrible thing happened to you. You get a little perk. that's my that's the way i do business if horrible things happen to you on my watch or if i if i inherit the watch you know i'm going to make sure you get a little perk that's just that's just the

way i that's the way i roll um but what i don't want is people going oh look at the car this guy bought this guy oh he's a conservative or whatever you know oh this guy gave that money to kyle written house and it's like it's a problem right everything's a problem you know the hot tub is like a perfect item in a way and much in the same way that like a thousand dollars is theoretically the perfect thing for universal basic income because it's a it's a small enough luxury that it won't incentivize people to you know fake terrorist attacks right but it's you know you think you're worried that people will come out you're this is a I'm all for this because honestly this doesn't happen enough economic discussions we don't we don't talk enough

about, like, you know, political discussions, the unforeseen consequences and, like, and the, and the, uh, the moral hazards, if you will. You know, just the incentivizing of things we don't want to happen. And you think that, it's a fair point. You think that if I do this as the head of the new head of the 9-11 family's victims commission group,

that, uh, I'll be incentivizing people to fake terrorist attacks. Uh, or you mean like, pretend that they were the victims of terrorists? Or you mean, like, actually, like, commit acts of terror to get a hot tub. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. Interesting.

But, you know, but I think the hot tub wouldn't. Now, if you promised everyone at House who is a victim of a terrorist attack, that would be, you know, that would be too much of an incentive to create fraudulent terrorism. I don't know exactly how somebody would do that, create a fraudulent terrorist attack. But it seems like something that could maybe be done. I think what I need to do. I need to make a caveat for this, you know, as the head of the victims, the new victims family. I'm just going to start an organization called the new 9-11 Victims Families group. And, you know, it'll be a competing group.

And if people like what I'm saying and offering with these hot tubs, they can come to my group. And then what's his name again? This guy who I'm, who, Brett Egleston. Well, he, you know, it's just, you know, it's a fair, it's a fair, like the Olympics, a fair competition. Right. That being, you know, but I, if you want to, but I'm going to have to tell them, look, if you want this hot top, I'm going to need you to sign over, like, power of attorney or something or like, give me, I need, I need access to your financial documents. I need to know every, like, I need a lot of, we're going to have to scrutinize you a lot. We're going to have to treat you with a criminal in order to make sure, but I'm going to be upfront about it.

Like, look, this is going to be a violation of your privacy. It's going to, but, but do you want? to be responsible for the new next 9-11. All right. So just get your hot tub and shut your mouth. Stop complaining that I'm, you know, I'm, I'm requesting documents from your, from your employer. And that, you know, and there's surveillance at your house and your husband's being watched. Enough.

Enjoy your hot tub. Don't question where it comes from. You know, I'm doing, I get my hands dirty here. But that's fun. So I don't know. What does this mean, are they going to let them go now? I don't know. It doesn't say what the new plan is.

I'm the only one of the plan. That's a problem. Oh, so international today. These stories. What else was this other thing going on? There's some guy. What's this thing with the prisoners? Oh, yeah.

So, uh, Wall Street Journal reporter just came back from Russia. There's a prisoner swap. He was held in Russia. They said he was a spy. Everyone in America seemed to say he definitely wasn't a spy. I was like, you know what, I'm not saying he's a spy, but. He could be.

I mean, why, yeah. Sometimes there are spies. Let's not, the CIA does use journalists sometimes. I mean, I'm not saying he is one, but I mean, it just seems, this is a problem with the CIA and thinking like that. And don't at me, CIA. You know, I love a man. America. And you know, and you know we're working together.

But, you know, but the problem is, you know, it's like you muddy the waters. Do you think we could tell if we, if we, like, um, looked into this guy's, like, past reporting, do you think we could tell just from the reporting whether or not he was a spy? That would be, look, that would be a arduous, long, be a lot of work, and I'm not going to do it. Are there things, are there topics that are more spy-y journalist than real journalist? I mean, like, reporting on Baccarat? On Baccarat? I don't know.

Like, what would you think? If that was the case, what's the first thing you would think of? I don't know. He seems like the kind of guy who would have, like, reported on that. What happened? The Panera bread lemonade that poisoned somebody? I feel like he'd write about something like that if he was a spy. So he's a spy.

So if he was a spy, wait. Okay. So you're saying. that this guy reported, living as an American, I guess, right, for the Wall Street Journal reporting on how bad the lemonade is this man where Brett out kills people or that allegedly. And Russia got mad about that. Russia was like, this is, this is, you think Putin was like, I love that lemonade.

Well, it's the kind of thing where it's like, well, I think Putin would look at that story about the Panera bread lemonade and say, you know, Like, this is too, this is almost too safe. Do you think he was in Russia reporting on, like, the Ukraine war, I guess, or so I'm not sure what this guy was doing, but, like, probably reporting on the Ukraine war, I imagine. And, like, in the middle of the article going, like, by the way, my wife told me she was drinking this, like, you know, atomic lemonade, a panera bread, I can't, well, I'm losing my mind.

I'm over here, and she's drinking, top, this is a supercharged lemonade that people are claiming He's killing people. Anyway, so the Nesprov the oil company is now he's got involved

in some scandal. I don't know. It doesn't seem like it's something he would be part of his purview. He's like talking about the coup. Who's the guy did the coup

the day of our wedding? Oh, oh. Progotion. Progotion. He's like he's doing a profile of progotion. I said, I see her on Instagram.

She's talking about it's a tonic lemonade. Stop drinking it. No one, the Wall Street Journal, like, everyone's cost cutting, so there's no editors anymore. It's just like, he just makes it into the article. And Putin's just like, this is crazy. He doesn't even understand it. He's like, this must be code. He mistakes that for code, like the wind talkers.

um so i don't know so i mean but yeah he but he was freed was the point we're really buried the lead on that russia freed run hopefully don't get your news from us we're here for analysis not we're not reporters right i'm not crankite imagine imagine if i was and i'm like and like 20 like where we were 30 three minutes in i'm like so anyway uh kennedy's dead sorry it's real and then I start frying. It's good man. Yeah, no, some guy shot from a book store. I don't know.

Russia freed wrongly convicted Wall Street Journal reporter, Evan Gershvik, Gershikovitch. Gershovich. I think. As part of the largest and most complex East-West prisoner swap since the Cold War, in which he and more than a dozen others, jailed by the Kremlin, were exchanged for Russians held in the United States, held in the Cold War. the U.S. and Europe, including a convicted murderer. That's just, I mean, is that, is that?

I hope we got something a little bit better than a journalist for a murderer. Well, we got, well, look, I mean, you. I want a murderer, too. Maybe we got a spy. I don't know. I mean, it does seem like, yeah, they, you know, because they claim, like, oh, we grew up. There was this idea that, like, oh, if you, if you were overseas and, like, you know, something happened to you, America would, like, bomb that country.

and like it doesn't really happen. Right. Unless you're, yeah, but sometimes, you know. But, you know, but if, if we catch some guy who, like, poisoned 10,000 people, sometimes we'll swap them. Hmm. That seems fair. Yeah. I mean, honestly, what's the guy going to do it again?

No. Maybe. They are safe free and have begun their journeys back into the arms of their families, President Biden said in the post. Biden plans to greet Gershowitz. I mean, why is no one, people got very mad that Britney Gruny. was traded for the I mean that good I guess that guy was pretty bad he was the sultan of war whatever was called or the the emperor of missiles I forget what they called him it was some but he had the he was a warlord of death right merchant of death right yeah um that's what they traded brittany grinder for the basketball player right yeah yeah I mean uh I guess that like to be fair that does seem like a more like I might be worse this guy just committed one murder That guy was, I mean, who knows that guy committed a murder? Who's more guilty, the guy who commits, actually commits a murder?

Or the guy who, like, sold all the guns for a war to the countries of both sides? Probably the guy who sold all the guns. It's really for philosophers to figure out, Lucy. All right? We're not equipped for that. Russia had kept Gershowitz, 32 years old, behind bars from more than a year on a false allegation of espionage. How can they don't say a legend? These papers always say a legend.

don't they allegedly false that would be horrible of like the newspaper you work for it's like alleged spy I mean that's

honestly though people would respect the press and I don't want to be do I do I seem an American I'm not saying he did it yeah

where he was I mean it just seems like you know wouldn't it be isn't that the first rule of being like media literate and whatever they go like you know

every like you know country said we didn't they accused of it was doing this and it's like no we didn't oh okay you know right i'm not saying Putin's like trustworthy but you know i'm just being i'm trying to be objective here yeah i mean you got to clock the biases a little bit like where you see them yeah it would be yeah it would be a little messed up if they were like you know we don't know were you we don't know if we did we tell you did we work for the CIA i'm not sure what is this is a private plane is that they're not a private plane how come no one's

you know complaining about the the carbon footprint here for the property of u.s. government well good look with that i was going to make a poster out of it uh the deal of secured their freedom was a feat of diplomacy biden said moments after the release some of these women and men have been moments that's released men some these women and men have been unjustly held for years all of endured unimaginable suffering and uncertainty today their agony is over and i'm going to smell their hair biden said uh multiple countries help get this done i don't know but not everyone's happy about this because uh what was this thing uh the other one i had you look the thing no that's not that one the um apparently one of the guys wasn't happy about this

Oh. Isn't that? Didn't we have the Oracle? Apparently one of the people freed is a little upset. No. Where's the notes? Just go to notes. And isn't it,

doesn't I put it there? Why has nothing work? Why is nothing in the cloud work? This is maybe this is why the market's the stock markets and the NASDAX in the correction zone. And the AI bubble my burst. Because, you know, we can't even get the cloud to function. I share an article to the cloud and where to go? Are we being sabotaged here?

Whatever. There's a guy. This right. Oh, God. Yes. There we go. Russian dissidents said he was traded against his will in an inmate swap. I didn't know you could, like, free someone against their will.

Ilya Yashan, a prominent opposition politician said he appreciated it. He appreciated his freedom, but told his jailers he did not want it if it meant going into exile. So this guy's pissed at, I guess, us, America? I mean, it's not really me, but, you know, I'm just trying to get, you know, 9-11 victims out of. But he's one, he's pissed at he, uh, I guess he was put in jail in Russia and didn't want to leave Russia, but we got him out. And then he's saying, well, I want to go back to Russia. I don't think he's going back, but he's saying he's kind of whining about not you know, we'll go back to Russia.

It seemed to go weird. Why don't you wait a week? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's like, I mean, I kind of get his perspective. He seems more, he seems more pissed off at Russia than the U.S. I don't know. He seems to be like, but he, the Russia's on, I mean, what, what, we, we want you, should we put you back in prison?

Right. What do you want to happen? It's like, I wish you wouldn't have traded me for this murderer. Well, those are reasons. Ilya Yashin, one of the Russian dissidents, traded to the West in Thursday's prisoner exchange for a group of Russian agents, cybercriminals and an assassin, said on Friday he did not... He said that way. It does sound bad. Said he said on Friday, he did not want his freedom if it meant leaving his country.

I will never make peace with the role of an emigrant. Mr. Yashin 41 said at a news conference with other newly freed Russians in Bonn, Germany. was an emigrant all right like he doesn't want to be an immigrant is the point or leave is he doesn't want to see himself as an immigrant in another country that's what he's he's just I've never liked him so I don't want to be I'm not putting words in his mouth but I mean he's just you know maybe he doesn't like the idea of just being on the way I got I got I got a learn new language now what is this shit I mean my shows aren't going to be on what's the point where am I going to get uh what's Russian food forished we're going to get boys we're going to get

borsed some of those is that borsed i don't know um i mean yeah i mean it is like kind of clever of russia to like in prison their own like political opponents and then like trade them yeah like how why are we want them yeah i mean that's just that's what seems weird why do we why are we trying to get the guy is that a win for i mean bison says it's a feat of diplomacy but i mean here do we get so we got girls they need guys to pad the deal like I think that's what happened They couldn't This guy Gershowich

Whatever he's you know Let's just assume he's not a spy Let's operate under that assumption Because everyone else is anyway We want him back I mean it's going to look bad If we let this murderer exchange Because they remember the Griner thing

And that looked bad Right Right But we don't want a bit of Griner situation So let's get a few more guys in the deal How about you know They got a bunch of guys who were in for Dwees or whatever Like, imagine, imagine, like, being in, like, getting a Dewee and, like, being in jail for, like, a week or whatever, a month, 30 days, and, like, and they let you go early?

What happened? Oh, we trade you for Herman Gering. Like, oh, my God. This is, no, put me back. I was going to. This is not right. This is unjust. He described a statement he wrote before he moved from his penal colony, insisting he did not consent to be exchanged, which,

which he said included the declaration the Russian Constitution banned sending a citizen of the Russian Federation abroad without his consent. As a Russian citizen, I confirm and I do not give permission to be sent outside of Russia. Well, how'd that argument work out for you? Right. Why don't you take it to the Russian Supreme Court?

Hey, you know, the Constitution doesn't really allow this. Like, I'm sure that's going to, I'm sure that's going to, I'm sure the argument's going to fall on the not deaf ears. You're trying to, like, pull sovereign citizenship in Russia? Yeah. Like, I'm not trying to be like, Russia like we're so we're we're the freest country in the world and Russia but I mean come on yeah I don't think they're like you know what it's the Russian ACLU taking up this case he said he was told that if he attempted to return he would meet the same fate as Alexi Navalny wait aren't they still holding to the the line that he like just died randomly well I mean this is an official look they whispered this to the guy allegedly first of all this is what he said I mean this guy is just trying to I think this guy is just like

a little bit like I'm not trying I don't want to put words in this mouth I'm going to a little bit if this did happen if you look at use my case right we let you know we let you go with four days left but you're out early and like that's amazing because jail sucks no one wants to be in jail and we and we let Jeffrey Dahmer out oh no but like you know like oh you want to back? No. You have, you have to like, oh, this is, I'm going to take this to the Supreme Court. This is, I'm not allowed to be expelled. Like, so where do I stay? In the Hilton? Oh, nice. Do they have friends? I was watching friends before they arrested me.

Am I, am I here in time for October Fest? I can't wait to go to October fast. I mean, it's a little like, yeah, so he's like, oh, they told me that I would be, I'd meet the same phase in the phone. I mean, maybe they did. Maybe, maybe an FSB. officer whispered to him, if you come back, we'll do Navalny to you. It does seem a little like, you know, I get, I mean, it's, it doesn't seem very spyy. Right. You know, like, it's not like, it's not like, you know, the most clandestine act. Right.

Like, you know, is that what spies do? It's just whispered threats. Hey, if you come back, we'll do that thing right did. You know, we'll get you like we got JFK. We'll get you like Jackie O. What happened to Jackie O? You don't want to know. He said he was told that if he attempted to return, he would meet the same fate as Alexi Navalny,

the opposition leader who died in February in the Arctic penal colony, where he was serving several sentences on what Western governments and human rights groups said were trumped up charges. Moreover, Mr. Yashin said, they made it clear that my return would block any potential exchange. of any other political prisoners for the foreseeable future. Why? Why would they, why would, like, I don't think they would lose any face. Wouldn't it be better for them? I'm being very skeptical of this man.

You know, people might attack me for it. But it just doesn't seem to, like, he came back and we put him in jail again. It seemed great, they could use him again, right? Right. We could just exchange him for another murderer. Why would they, why would they warn you for this? No, come back. They seem to want you, and we don't care.

to come back, we'll put you in jail again. And then we can trade you for another like valuable spy. Right. That's what I mean, if I was Putin, it's what I would do. Come back. Yeah.

It's nice here. No, well, Navalny, you don't. I mean, come on. This seems a little. He said there were many in far poorer health who should have taken his place in the exchange. Um,

okay. too bad for them yeah go get a chiro enjoy it I don't tell this guy I mean the guy is so it's a guy he's talking about the one with the the the spatt the Argentinian thing um because this isn't other stories this is the related story this is from the Russian side of things

so I guess that's the guy that he's referring to as the murderer right or that different thing I mean there's so many spies involved in this whole exchange I'm not sure But one of the, one of the, I don't know, we're not sure because we don't read articles all the way through because we're, you know, we're having a literate podcasters. But the headline here, Putin greeted children of freed sleeper agents in Spanish. Now, why would you do that? I think I already said they were sleeper agents. Yeah.

As they had only discovered, they were Russian on the flight to Moscow. That's quite a, that's a doozy. Imagine that. That's straight out of TV. The kid seems pretty happy. What, in that picture? Yeah. First of all, no, I mean, it's not smiling.

That's actually true. They're not smiling. And she's next to Putin with a bouquet of flowers in her hand. I guess she seems at best ambivalent. What the hell you think smile a happy kid looks like? I mean, John John looked happier at his dad's funeral in this. What are you talking about? This is crazy.

I love to see your. Rorschach test results. But apparently, yeah, so this girl's, what, like 11 looks like or 10? Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was like a little kid. It's like a 10-year-old kid, and Putin's like, oh, oh, la.

That's got to be creepy as fuck. Ola! Because they're like, oh, we're actually, you know, I mean, they said, I guess they're saying it's in Spanish. Like, oh, we're actually Russians. They're on the plane. They got on his plane or whatever. Although, was the kid in jail?

I don't think. I think the parents were in jail. So where was the kid? Let's see. Vladimir Putin greeted the children of two Russian sleeper agents in Spanish as they landed in Moscow following a recent prisoner exchange between Russia and the West. The children had only just learned they were Russian on the flight home and could not speak the language. Kremlin spokesperson, Dmitri Peskov told reporters. The children of sleeper agents who flew in.

yesterday learned that they were Russian only when the plane to grow up from I don't know this doesn't make any sense to me when the children came down on the airplane ramp they didn't speak Russian who didn't greet them in Spanish she said buenos noches was you wearing a sombrero fake mustache

Buenos noches that's got to be I mean that kid's got that's the most terrifying thing I've ever heard imagine Vladimir Putin just like you were like He's like, Comoista?

What's, you speak a little Spanish, right? There are like three Russian guys. It doesn't even make sense. They have them in Argentina. But it's just like, there's just three Russian guys like, like, do it, forming like a sloppy mariage band.

They're trying to speak Spanish songs. But there's thick Russian accent. They're like really, like, shi impanadas. It's like, what is? She's confused, but they don't know. They're like, uh, what is this? They have a, what do you call it?

Pignada. That's the air in the hangar. Oh, man, the children, I mean, that's really, I, but no, you're right, they look happy. It's the most terrifying thing ever heard. The children's parents, Artem Doltsev, and Anna Deltzev, were freed as part of a prisoner exchange that also involved the Wall Street journal reporter, Evan Gerskovich. So everyone but Gerskiewicz is a spy in the situation.

Right? No, I guess not. Well, like the political guy, the political opposition doesn't seem like he seems like he could not be a spy. Oh, yeah, he seems like it could not be a spy. I mean, I don't know. Why do we want him? I mean, he was doing political opposition. Yeah.

I'm just asking people not to, like, I'm not jumping. You can't get mad at me. People all over the internet are accusing people of being, of being, you know, trans when they're not, or if they are, and there's debates about that. And they're calling Kyle Rittenhouse a trans woman because he's, he was saying he was going to write in Ron Paul because Trump wasn't strong enough on gun rights. And I'm not judging, whatever, you know, but you can't get mad at me just because maybe the guy might have been this party. I don't know. I'm just being objective. I'm being, I'm trying to, don't come at me like, why aren't you?

a patriot. I don't know who would be saying this. Some secret service agent is just like is Hulk grabbing my ears. You know, love America more. I don't know. I'm paranoid. A couple have been convicted by Slovenian court of preventing, pretending to be Argentinians

to carry out espionage. Interesting. So they're Russians who went to Slovenia. I guess they're backstory. They pretend to be Argentinian. Okay. Yeah, I know. that they were Argentinian. This tells you how good I am. I'm like,

I'm a guy who like if you, if you, Lucy knows. I'm always, I've always been really into espionage history. They're a lot about it. I'm just going like, why would they,

but they went to Slovenia? Why would they pretend to be Argentinian? I'm a moron. Yeah, it's their backstory and whatever. Why would they pretend to be Slovenian? I'm so mad. The couple of guilty of spying charges

and was sentenced on July 31st, a day before you exchange. Is that making you a bad spy if you admit it? Should you, like, never admit it? I would never admit it. I would never, because I feel like as a spy, I mean, I would just imagine that, like, you know, as soon as you admitted, they just give you the death penalty.

I feel like they may have expected that of their spies in, like the 60s, but now they're probably like, nobody really has the fiber for that anymore. I guess they torture you, too, right? That's the thing. Yeah, they torture you for a while, and then you go to court. It's not like they, like, get you, like, in, like, low and order.

Right. They trick you. Like, you know, it's like, no, it's like, it's like,

it's like, you know, electrified sticks. What they call those things? Cattle prods and, you know, all sorts of terrible things. Um, so yeah,

Gersh, give it. Russia also released a former U.S. Marine, Paul Wheel. Oh, wait. Paul Wheelan. Who was that guy?

That guy seemed from, what was you? Who was Paul Wheelan? I forget who he was. Oh. Oh, opposition to activists. No, Paul, Russia ultimately's former U.S. Marine. Yeah, who is Paul Whelan?

Look at Paul Whelan. Wasn't he accused of being a spy? The Canadian-born former United States Marine, left Marines 2008 with a bad conduct discharge as being convicted on multiple counts related to larceny. He was arrested in Russia on December. he had in 2018 accused of spying

are we saying he didn't do it this is a guy who was like basically got kicked out in the Marines for being a thief it seems like

I'm not saying he was but the Marine larcenies being a thief I feel I'm a good guy I don't want to call Marine

hey you're a thief whatever he stole you stole something right I don't know what they made you do you know maybe maybe they made you do

some terrible stuff I'm gonna take I'm gonna take this stone machine home with me is Dr. Pepper machine, it's coming, it's going to be in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, in my, I've done enough for this country. And I think he's right. You know, I might not have a lot of war, but I'm not anti-troop. And then he goes,

and he goes to Russia, you know, and then they make him, they say he's a spy. Like, no, what are you talking? I got, I got kicked out of the Marines for stealing Dr. Dr. Pepper machine. What are you think I'm a spy? I mean, if he was a spy, that'd be a terrible backstory. Um, um, it'd be like the departed. I mean, I guess this is what it'd be like he'd be like departed right yeah where it's like uh hey you know like i don't like you go to rush they're no no no no we'll make this thing where you're like you stole a dr pepper machine we could get the marine i stole a dr pepper machine we're talking about yeah you wanted to take it to your den because you we made you kill too many people or something what i'm a logistics officer

nah yeah they don't know that do you want a refresher on why you was shaman try, okay, yeah, go ahead. Instead of speculating mysteriously about it. Wait, sham trial, meatball surgery, no human rights. So he's holding up a picture. Russia has these

glass things in courts. I guess you can't, like, I mean, we don't have this problem in America really. And we're much more, and I don't know what, in our, I feel like our people are pretty violent. Right. But we don't have to, like, we know, we don't

put them in glass cages in court. I feel like, Doesn't, don't they do that in England, too? I feel like I've seen that. I'm like, maybe. But they have these guys in glass cages in court, and he's in a sweater. And he's holding up a piece of paper that says sham trial, exclamation point. Exclamation point after each line, meatball surgery, no human rights, Paul's life matters. He's Paul?

Yeah, I think so. Why not my life matters? Wouldn't that be more compelling? My life matters. Paul's life matters I was trying to do a little spin on the Paul's dead on black lives matters

Oh okay Paul lives matter I thought I thought it made me like you know because Paul is dead From the Beatles He's trying to do like Paul's a lot

I don't know Yeah everything makes more sense Decisive action from POTS and PMS needed PMS Like British guys Prime Minister yeah You can get both POTUS or

P.Ms, maybe. I want England to help, too. What are they involved? Happy birthday. You can't just put happy birthday at the end of your daughter or wife or whatever. That really kind of takes a sting out of this. Flores is girlfriend's daughter. She's his Anna, Amy.

Yeah. If I'm ever held in a Russian prison, I'm not going to be, and congratulations on your baptism, Anna Amy, or whatever. not baptism what would it be confirmation god I don't know

um the American disappeared without a trace for three days until his twin wait a whoa what's going on in room three

three two four of Moscow's metro hotel pole wheeling was getting dressed for a friend's wedding when Russian intelligence

officers burst in the American disappeared without a trace for three days until his twin stumbled across a news report announcing

his brother have been charged with espionage. Look, this is already confusing enough that I think it's probably true. Yeah. He was at a friend's wedding in Russia and the twin. And there was a twin looking at. This is when you start to glaze over, like, what's happening? And, oh, someone made this. This is a, this is a cooked up thing.

This is a work or whatever. Well, what do they call that? You know. What are the spy agencies call it when they make, when they do a thing like this? Oh, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a kerfuffle. I don't know. I'm getting an idiot.

That was New Year's Eve, 2018, and the start of a case that were embroiled for Western governments and pile of pressure on relations with Russia that had already sunk to a pre-cold war low, post-cold war lobe. Almost 18 months later, William had been convicted of spying, receiving Russian state secrets after a short trial because was this twin involved in the trial?

The twin just seems like an extra step here. Why would they even include the twin? Yeah. The New York Times, it was the BBC. The former U.S. Marine who also has British, Irish, and Canadian citizenship. Oh, God. This is, I mean, come on. Come on.

This is James Bond twins. This is like, this is so, this is just ridiculous. I mean, the spies are all bad. jobs now. It's really clumsy. So, like, we traded Russia for a bunch of spies in exchange for a spy slash assassin and sleeper agents, or maybe they're the same person, and, uh, and the journalist, I guess. Yeah.

I mean, people out there seem to, no, I know nothing about the guy. It just seems odd. I guess it's what you do, to be fair. Because being all these other journalists are going, like, well, no, this guy didn't do it. Should I believe them? Right. I mean, I don't want to make this, you know, be the guy saying this stuff. But at the same time, uh, cares.

What do you think? No, I mean, look, I think that there's some times, this is just a really funny paragraph. The former U.S. Marine who has also has British, Irish, and Canadian citizenship. has always insisted on his innocence. And in court this week, he described himself as a victim of greasy, slimy, Russian politics. I mean, yeah. In court this week, he's, wait, in court this week, he described himself. In what court?

This was back, like, when he was initially arrested for the Marine. Right. Oh, this is four years ago. Yeah, this is one. Yeah, I don't know. If I was, I mean, look, I guess that's like, it's a pretty bold thing to be, like, Like, hey, look, I'm just a, I'm not a spy. I'm the victim.

Like, when you know you're in Russia, it seems like a weird thing to be like, I'm just a victim of greasy, greasy Russian politics. And it's like, maybe don't, you know, tempt them, you know, push the, you're pushing a little bit. Right. I wouldn't be talking shit in that moment. I guess I'm, I'm not as tough as Paul Wheeling. I'm on Marine.

Well, we're going to, he's back. Yeah. Welcome home. I'll be gets to Dr. Pepper Machine. And, uh, all as well. And then welcome back to Evan. you know as a journalist i think he can appreciate us being skeptical of whether or not he's you know actually a journalist or not if anyone should should be on our side and and this is him

yeah you know he's he should really defend us if anyone comes at us i want evan gerskovitch to defend us in wall three journal and say no look look they're right i you know this is objective journalism what they're doing yeah you think will do that oh i don't think so I don't think I don't think No one's loyal anymore Have the courage to Remember We can't keep doing what we're doing

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