Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #100 Natasha Kingsbury

Episode Date: August 9, 2019

Join us for episode 100 as I bring my lovely wife on the show for a jam-packed double feature. We get emotional as we talk overcoming trauma, her 1st ayahuasca experience, and the pros and cons to open relationship.    Connect with Natasha Instagram | https://bit.ly/2Zbxjnf Twitter | https://bit.ly/2Ayja9X Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/public/Natasha-Kingsbury   Show Notes: Peter Attia | https://peterattiamd.com/ This Is Water by David Foster Wallace | https://bit.ly/2KWQYDm Psilocybin Mushroom |https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_mushroom Sex At Dawn by Chris Ryan | https://amzn.to/2lqHJP4 Conscious Loving | https://bit.ly/2JPXbj6 49th Mystic by Ted Decker | https://amzn.to/2YXliAK   Waayb CBD www.waayb.com (Get 10% off using code word Kyle at checkout)   Onnit Nitric Oxide  Get 10% off all foods and supplements at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/kyle/    Felix Gray Blue Blocker Sunglasses (Free Shipping/ 30 days risk-free, returns and exchanges) felixgrayglasses.com/kyle  https://bit.ly/2J0BhJA   Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk    Subscribe to the Kyle Kingsbury Podcast Itunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2Ib3HCg Google Play Music | https://bit.ly/2HPdhKY

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and it takes a while to get out, but here it is. I'm fucking long awaited. Total nitric oxide for performance and pump. You can stack it with any other pre-workout. I'm fucking long awaited. Total nitric oxide for performance and pump. You can stack it with any other pre-workout. I stack it with the Total Keto Daily. Some of the people here stack it with Total Strength and Performance or just creatine and glutamine. Whatever you want to stack it with, completely stackable. And it's one of the best products we've ever put out on the market. I know you guys are going to dig it. For 10% off, go to onnit.com slash Kyle and look for the total nitric oxide. The long awaited podcast with Natasha is here. My wife has finally graced us with her presence on the show. It's actually her second time. We were on with a big group of people, about six,

and I wanted her to get some one-on-one time where she could go over her story, everything that's gone down in her life, how she's tackled challenges, everything from plant medicine ceremonies to our open relationship to being a parent and what that looks like in the relationship. So much here. It was for sure one of my favorite podcasts I've ever recorded. And I'm not just saying that because she's going to listen to this and she's my wife, but truly amazing. So please reach out to us. We've linked in the show notes to her social media and mine as well. Just click on that. Give us a follow on IG or Twitter and write us and let us know what you think. If you have any questions, hit us up.

Also, we'll be releasing a Q&A. Tasha had the idea to ask people online, hey, you got any questions for us? And we received a fuck ton of amazing questions so we're actually going to do that one separately and we will release it here within the next day so be on the lookout for that and let us know what you think thanks for tuning in alright we're clapped in

it's official the wifey the husby it's so dope to finally have you on it we had you on with a small group back in the day i think it was um it was a big group yeah jp sears amber dr kirk parsley and christine and yeah i think that's yeah that was a good group but anytime there's six people it's really hard to dive deep so of course we had to run it back

with just the two of us well and everyone's super smart so I just felt like I was sitting there like just wanting to listen doing little things here and there but yeah yeah well you got your whole hour and a half or however long we go I usually try to get background on people's childhood just to paint a picture of where they come from and how they've gotten to where they are today. With you, there is no doubt that is one of the big questions. You had the idea of asking people online to do a Q&A. And so we will do that as the second part of this episode. But

with how many awesome questions came in, we're going to have to separate that from this, because there's enough to talk about here in its own episode. But one of the questions had to do with your Instagram post about your childhood, the fathers that you've had, and the men that you have in your life now. So I think that's an excellent way to start the podcast. Just talk about growing up. Talk about all the men that have been in your life and how that's changed over time. Well, I was born and raised in Vegas. And my mom had my oldest sister when she was 18 years old. I was friends with my dad all through high school. They married. They had three of us by the time they were 22. My dad was a Navy chef. And my mom doesn't talk very much about him. She only has shared when

we've asked questions. But from what I've gathered from my questions, he was definitely very depressed, came from a lot of addictive, just a lot of addictive traits like gambling, drinking, smoking, and dealt with depression for a long time and ended up killing himself when he was 23, 23. I was almost two. And then my mom being in church and having three children and really wanting, as a mom now, it's like, I get it. You want your children to grow up with a father. So she very quickly remarried to my first stepdad. And then they had two children together, my younger brother and sister. We've never considered each other like half siblings. We're all like

solid. And then he, because I was the youngest, I was about four when they married and understanding how predators work, they go for the ones that are the easiest to control or manipulate. And so from age four till I was about nine, I was sexually molested by him. And looking back at that time, there was ever a time between four and nine that I really thought anything of it. I hated it, but I wasn't miserable. I was a really happy kid. I had lots of friends. I wasn't antisocial. I definitely can look back at like playing with my friends and being like, oh, I was playing some sexual things with my Barbies. Like I just didn't.

But like if we, you know, like when parents would catch me doing stuff, they were like, hey, what are you doing there? And like, oh, you know, like I just didn't think anything of it. So thankfully, once my mom, it came to her attention from one of my older sisters who it happened to one time. And that one time, my older sister told my mom. And thankfully, my mom believed her. And so he went to jail. And then again, now my mom has five kids and wants a father. And there's a man that she knows from church again and remarries. And I'm really surprised, but I really bonded with him right away. I don't know if it's because we knew him from church. Or I was just a serious daddy's girl and just wanted that relationship. But he was our dad for about 11 years. Had a horrible temper though. So just constantly walking on eggshells, watching him scream at my mom, leave the house.

So there was just, it never felt like there was ever a time that a man felt, you know, like I just, that's what men were to me. That's what father figures were to me. And my looking at how devout I was in my Christianity and my faith, I think a lot of that was tied to that belief of I have a heavenly father. I have a heavenly father who loves me and keeps me safe and would never hurt me. And so that really, I think, was my driving force in my faith. But they divorced and my mom then was dating and she did remarry again a few times. And, but after that third one, it was like, I don't call anybody dad. That's, you know,

it's Tom or Ross or whoever is, you know, but like, I, um, it also made me very anti, like not want to date. Like I didn't date all through high school. I didn't have my first boyfriend until I was 21. And I still had that, like, I'm going to wait until I didn't date all through high school. I didn't have my first boyfriend until I was 21. And I still had that, I'm going to wait until I'm married before I have sex. And I had a promise ring. But most of it was just out of fear, out of fear of men and being hurt and not trusting them. But I can't ever say that there was ever a time I cried and said, I wish none of this had ever happened. I just had a mindset of it happened and I'm going to be happy. I'm going to live my life. I'm going to believe that there is a man, like, you know, every, I don't know if guys do it, but girls, we tend to make lists of like the things we want in our future partner. And like how you, like for me, I was like, I want to meet this person like this. I like, I think at the top, it was, I want to be friends first, but it never, even, even the things that happened after I was actually raped twice in my young

adulthood. And even those situations, there was never a time that I felt, um, I just, I was very much like a student about everything. Like, oh, I learned a lesson there. I, I knew I should have seen that I should have known better. And it wasn't me being like blaming myself. Obviously, they were wrong. But in moving forward after everything that happened, I was very, I just grew from it. And you're methodical to your approach rather than

dwelling on it, which has its own pros and cons, right? I think something that you've mentioned to me in the past is how one of the ways that you've carried your mindset and yourself and in turn not hated men or been open and available to dating people is that you would acknowledge the thing that happened, but you'd move on pretty quickly. And that, again, also has its pros and cons. Yeah, for sure. It's actually something that was brought to my attention even more fully in our last ayahuasca experience at Sultara was I've always allowed myself to feel and grieve or be angry or whatever the feelings are that having gone to counseling since I was like nine after being molested, there were different things that I learned from those situations. But I had like a cutoff.

All right, I can feel this way for this long. And then after that, I'm moving on. I'm not going to let this control my life. I'm not going to let this. But sometimes in some situations, it takes longer. And I didn't fully heal from a lot of things because of that cutoff. I thought, oh, I dealt with that. I processed it. Now I'm good. Yeah, you gave it your set amount of time and that's long enough. And I don't need to grieve any longer. I can just move on with my life. And then you have a situation like when we started open and something like the feeling of abandonment from my real dad. Thought that, I mean, when we started dating, you would forget about my life, my childhood, the things I'd been through.

Because I never cried about it. I never whined about it. Father's Day didn't come around and I wasn't like, I don't have a father. I just never, I was very like, no, this is my life and I'm not going to dwell on the past. But starting open, that was my fear, being abandoned. And it was by far the strongest, hardest thing that I had to continually work through knowing you weren't going to leave me. So that was one of the big ones for me as well. I think that's a big one for a lot of people. And we'll definitely take a deep dive in an open relationship, but I want to talk too about the stuff that comes up for us as parents. You know, we've had a few questions around that in the Q&A. And I think a lot of triggers for you around your mom and how you were raised only started to show up in your life once you became

a mom. And as I've talked about in the past, a lot of things that came up for me, not when Bear was born, but they came up once I had to start disciplining Bear because it reminded me of the way that I was disciplined and the pros and cons of that. It actually allowed me to see it from both sides and see like, well, I never slapped my dad in the face. I never screamed at him. I never did the things that Bear does to me that I put up with. But that was definitely a harsher way to get to that point where you turn a kid into a robot, you know? And so I think seeing those pros and cons allowed me God, I, in my, in my childhood, you think like, you're my mom and dad, or you're my mom and my stepdad. Like you've,

you're an adult. You have all your shit figured out. You've, you know, you just have this idea of who they are. And then you become a parent and you're like, holy shit, I shit, I still feel like I'm 18 sometimes or 21 or 25. And now I'm in charge of teaching this person, this young little soul, how to handle his emotions when I'm still trying to figure out how to handle my emotions sometimes. But seeing my mom, I think that's the thing that's really shifted, I think, but that is the thing that, um, really has given me the, the ability to forgive and be grateful for, for what I did take away from my father's and my mother is seeing it from like my mother's perspective and seeing, okay, she was 23, had three children. Her husband kills himself. How would, you know, like I couldn't imagine doing,

like having that and then finding out my second husband was molesting my children. Like, okay, it makes sense why she fricking pulled us in and was overly protective, was like no sexual, you know, like she used to edit movies and like take out any kind of clip that she thought like we couldn't watch Little Mermaid because the seashells. She thought it was too sexual.

Or Back to the Future when Biff Cannon's trying to get a piece. Yeah. Like, I'd watch movies. I'm not that kind of girl, Biff. I would watch movies as an adult and be like, I don't remember that scene because my movies were all like the whole scene cut out. And then it just goes moves on but like i don't i have so much compassion and love for my mother that she kept going and she did the best that she could and you know her growing up with parents who were not physically loving weren't hugging people like my grandparents aren't

huggers they're not people who express love through words. It's more like quality time, you know, like just hanging out, doing yard work together. Yeah. Acts of service. Yeah. And so just seeing it from that perspective, seeing my dad's life and just feeling so sad that he didn't get to live life, whether it was as my father or not. People that it's when they commit suicide it's like did they have were they exposed to the tools to the things that can make their life wonderful and full of joy and happiness because we all have shit we all have pain but when you have the tools you can get through anything and then my my stepdad that molested me he was molested as a boy and his mom didn't believe him. So like, that's sad. That's, it doesn't, it doesn't mean I'm like, oh, let me visit with you and be close

to you. It's, I, you set boundaries. I have my boundaries. I don't communicate with him at all, but I have forgiveness for him and I have empathy for what he went through. And then my third dad, I just look at, especially when you look at our elders, our parents, our grandparents, and if they're still stuck in a certain mindset or certain behaviors or ways of just they have anger or they have whatever it is. Like, I don't want to be in my 60s and 70s still doing that. I want to be on another level and evolving and growing because we're constantly changing. But yeah, those are obviously plant ceremonies have been the gateway into having those visions and then being able to take those and apply them to any situation where somebody maybe does something to me or says something instead of taking it personally. I can say, okay, let me sit and think about this person and why they might be doing that in their life, their past, and that it's just this cyclical cycle of pain reacting.

Yeah. This reminds me of the commencement speech by David Foster Wallace that Peter Attia turned me on to. This is water. Incredibly powerful. We'll link to this again in the show notes. But yeah, he just goes into all the examples of how we believe we're the center of the universe. And so when something happens to us, we don't take into consideration what's going on in that other person's life. But I mean, if you look through, and this is taught by the great teachers,

like in the Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, to not take shit personally, being one of like the major fundamental pieces, right? And then from there- It's a hard one. It is a really hard one, especially with Bear. Even with Bear, it's so ridiculous that you're like, I know you're not doing this on purpose,

but it feels personal. Well, let's talk about some of the tools here and then more on Bear and then we'll get into Open. You had done no drugs at all your entire life until meeting me. Yeah. Which is great. And it's funny too, because, you know, I think you, you had been given a weed cookie or cannabis cookie in college and didn't enjoy the experience. Obviously, I think that's a pretty rough one, but we were drinking with it now. Yeah. And, you know, I've, I've spoken about this many times, but my first boxing coach,

was my first real maestro and worked with me doing sweat lodges and then mushroom sweats and then later ayahuasca. But I had been doing, I think I had a few of these under my belt once we started dating. And I remember talking to you about it and you were receptive to the idea of mushrooms. And still at that point, pretty religious, pretty, I mean, and I'll let you elaborate on that. But from my understanding, you had questioned things from a very young age in the church, but at the same time, you were still devout and firm in your beliefs. And one of the things that's hard for people who are really religious in any religion is the idea that something that creates this doorway into your own psyche or into the ether or whatever you want to call it, it may not be of God, right? It might

be the devil working through the back channels to fucking steal your soul, you know, like Bobby Boucher's mom in The Waterboy. Mushrooms are the devil, Bobby. Like that kind of thought process. So talk a bit about how you were able to accept doing the deep work, and then we'll get into that first ceremony, which was by all means heroic. Yeah, yeah. We read the Bible from cover to cover every year. So I know the Bible very well. And I had so many questions as a child, because when you actually read cover to cover, there's a lot in there that doesn't, it didn't make sense to me.

Like things just didn't line up because to me, when I read the whole thing, it was like, what I felt was like, but it's love. God, you know, God is love, unconditional love. But then we have this whole list of but if you do this punishment punishment judgment for eternity burning like i it just i didn't understand it and so i've had a lot of questions but um as i got older uh i think a really hard thing too was just being so involved in church and really seeing, especially with like my third dad, just the hypocrisy of who he was at home and who he was at church. Seeing my friends who had parents that were church leaders or pastors and being at their house and then seeing, you know, at church.

And that's not at all saying like they're fake. They don't really believe. But it was hard for me. It was confusing. It was just kind of like, how is that in alignment with what you say you believe or what you believe in? But I didn't really, I never stopped saying I was a Christian because of the fear, because of that. If I say I'm not

a Christian, then if I'm wrong, I'm going to burn in flames for eternity or in suffering. And so there was just that thing holding on to me of like, I'll never say I'm not a Christian. I'm still a Christian, but I wasn't practicing. I wasn't going to church. But aside from that, I also experienced, I knew and I know I did experience God in church. And that was through worship. That was through singing and really just finding a space for myself and tapping into that, into that place of connection with God. I was never slain in the spirit. And people were like,

Hansen's like, you've never been slain in the spirit? Let's get you up there so they can try. And I was like, I never was just like, oh, like, I don't know. Like there's times I definitely think there's a performance aspect to it. And I just, I've never been a faker. I've never been a person who wanted to look like more Christian by doing things like that. So when you and I had started dating, I, that's kind of where I was. I'd also growing up in the house, the home where we were being

molested, there were a lot of, there was a lot of darkness in that home i do remember all of my siblings and i have experienced dark things whether you want to call them dark spirits whatever it is my mother included we'd all had experience and this is before anybody my mom knew um we were so young so there wasn't like a i just just, I know what I experienced. And I remember having these conversations with you where I'm like, it's hard to say I don't believe had two months of just trying out drinking, and it wasn't for me. I didn't enjoy it. I didn't like the taste of it, and it didn't do it for me. Plus, I was very self-aware of my father's history of abuse and addiction.

And so for me, it was, I don't even wanna open that door because I wanna be very conscious of what's in my DNA. But I'd only heard horrible mushroom stories from teammates in college. But for some reason it was still like, I don't know. That one calls to me for some reason. I don't know if I'll ever do it, but that one sounds interesting. And so when you presented it, there was still a nervousness of like, I don't know if I could do that. But when you explained to me how it was in a Temescal, so like the sweat, the very traditional sweat lodge on a native reservation, it was a very ceremonial, spiritual thing. So it wasn't like we're doing drugs at a party. And that's what I really, that really is what made me feel comfortable is that I felt like if I'm doing this in a respectful way,

then if I'm coming at it with my heart in the right place, then I won't be possessed by demons, like whatever it was that I was afraid of. And I remember sitting in the lodge after we had eaten the mushrooms and it was starting, and I remember praying to the God in my had eaten the mushrooms and it was starting. And I remember praying to the God in my mind from the Bible, you know, please, I'm doing this. I'm not doing this to be rebellious. I'm not doing this to, you know, do anything but to grow and be closer to you.

So please keep me safe. That's a good prayer. Yeah good yeah like i just that was my mindset going into it because i had no no gauge of like what i was about to experience other than what you had told me um and i trusted you i think i think i know never trust never trust kyle when it comes to your first chuck experience the answer the answer it's funny because, you know, everybody gets names on the, names on the playa when you go to Burning Man and my first Burning Man, it's weird, but everybody kept looking to me for the answers on how many drugs they should take. And the answer was always yes. Like if you're, if you're saying more or not, the answer was yes. And of course this is within reason and micro adjustments as you go up. But yeah, so being the voice of reason, Aubrey called me

reason. And that was just a funny name because I don't even think it's stuck. He calls me Odin now on the playa. But point being, we had by any stretch, the most heroic dose of mushrooms ever. And that was your first time. That was for sure the most heroic for me. Um, don't recommend this to people, certainly not on their first time, but I'd brought an ounce of mushrooms for, uh, the sweat and there was supposed to be at least five of us. So I had a few fighters coming out, um, from AKA and it's a bit of a drive. And so on the drive, each one called me one by one to say, Hey, I can't make it tonight. And it was like last minute pullout. And I'm like, all right, well, it looks like it's just us. It'll be a private ceremony.

And so when I got there, I gave the whole bag to my coach and I said, Hey, just divvy up what you want us to take, whatever you feel we should have and keep the rest for yourself as a thank you for, for putting this on. And he said, okay, yeah, that's perfect. Thank you so much. And then he, he split them into pairs of two. He blessed them. There was a masculine side, a feminine side, a sage and went through and he probably took two mushroom, dried mushrooms for himself out of the entire bag and split the rest for us. And so we're eating these and I'm like, damn, that's a lot of mushrooms. And I'm trying not to do the math because I know it's a lot. And I had no clue, no clue. I had no clue, the difference between an ounce or a gram, all those little measurements, I couldn't tell you what one cap versus, how many did we eat?

Like 15, 20? Well, we had 13. It's 28 grams in an ounce. And there's no way he took even a gram with the two mushrooms. So likely, we're looking at like 13.7, 13.8 grams each. And we had to chew them. We had to chew them. had to chew them each mushroom had to be chewed which like makes my stomach turn just even thinking about it now we have our

grind it up it's a fine powder you put in delicious juice it just goes down so easy but while i was eating it because it was very ceremonial. I was trying to be respectful. I remember chewing one and leaning into Kyle and saying, this seems like a lot. And he's like, no, it's fine. Weetzie knows the right amount to give us. Meanwhile, on the inside, he's screaming, oh my God. Oh my God, please. This is far more than I've ever done.

It's over twice as much as I've ever done. It's probably three times as much as I've ever done at that point. And still the most we've ever done. Yeah. I mean, I would say some of the penis envy experiences have been deeper, but here I'm digressing again. So we have this monstrous dose by all accounts, and we're in the sweat, which really kicks things into high gear. And there's a lot of times, I mean, to be specific, it's a traditional sweat, but traditionally the Lakota do not practice in a Nipi with medicine because the sweat itself is the medicine, right? That is its own ceremony. And that's how it's done most of the time. My coach was a medicine man and he liked combining the tools. I have not met somebody yet who likes to combine the sweat with medicine.

Most people, if they're going to use the two together, you have the sweat first to prep, and then you have the medicine after. But it's funny because he was a guy who commanded respect. He was a guy who was very orderly and very by the book, and especially in that space. And when we came out of the sweat, you were turned back into a little kid and everything was like seeing it for the first time. And it was a full moon. Of course, there's no lights, no running water out on the reservation. It was beautiful. And you looked at this piece of grass and just started laughing. You're like, oh my God, it's so strong. Look at it, just fighting the gravity of the earth

to climb to the sky. I was just laying on my stomach staring. And I can't even remember if it was like a pile of grass, but just one blade just stood out to me or if it was just one piece of grass. But I remember just staring at it. And I was just amazed. Like I was so, I've always loved nature. I've always been super in tune with

creatures, but that was an amazing experience for a number of reasons. It was incredibly fun and playful and just eye-opening. I felt connected to God. I felt loved by God, but it wasn't, God wasn't this man who stands above us judging us. It was just love. It was just beaming love. And I laughed so much. And I remember telling you, I started crying. I remember telling you that I was so happy that knowing that deep inside of me, I was happy that I wasn't just this outward on the surface, happy person, but to really, because I was nervous about that. Am I going to be bawling in a mess and miserable and in pain and just like my real self. Like, is this who I really am? But like, so seeing just being happy and feeling so much joy and excitement for life and love

for you. And we were walking around and there were wild foxes walking around me and like sitting by me. Two of them were following you like Cinderella on the walk. Yeah. And I remember looking up and I looked down and I was like, oh my gosh. And I didn't know if I was just seeing things, but Huitzi and you both saw them and talked about them. So that was my first experience.

And then we came to hear about Ayahuasca. And upon reading it, I did not think it looked very fun. And for me, the fact that you had done mushrooms before many times, there was a safety of like, oh, you know, you can, you know what this experience is and that and I'm safe and I'm, you know, whatever. But you'd never done ayahuasca when you were pitching this. And so I was like, well, I don't want to shit my pants. I don't want to be in the woods with no, with an outhouse and no running water. It was more so I just didn't want to shit my pants and puke in the woods. Like it just sounded filthy. Like I just be laying in all of it, you know, flies buzzing around. So I sent you to do that one solo when

it became available and then you came back from that experience and that really changed our relationship we loved each other so much but we definitely had a rough first year

and when you came back and all the visions that you had seen and the fact that you couldn't talk without crying and- For two weeks. And I'd never seen you cry. And even just everything that you saw about us, about me, about yourself, it was right away. It was a, okay, I'm doing this. I'm definitely doing this. Just knowing my own history, my own past, my own childhood, wanting to dive headfirst into those and really heal fully from them. So mushrooms, ayahuascaca and then I started dabbling with weed a little bit again

you may not realize it but the average American blasts their eyes with bright screens for 11 hours a day when you consider how much our day revolves around our devices it doesn't seem so crazy I got a lot of Apple products, iPhone

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They're absolutely incredible. Head over to felixgreyglasses.com slash Kyle. That's felixgreyglasses.com slash Kyle for free shipping and 30 days of risk-free returns or exchanges. Well, I want you to dive into your first ayahuasca experience. Obviously, we've had quite a few plant medicine experiences, so that could take all fucking day going through them all. But part of this path that we've both gone through is continued work on ourselves and it and it's the the ability to say yes to the challenging circumstances and sometimes that happens

when we're prepared for it we've said yes like consciously like when i consciously asked can i open up any last healing that's necessary around my childhood in this last 25th ceremony um and of course that was there was a knowing going into it um other times when we've any last healing that's necessary around my childhood in this last 25th ceremony. And of course, there was a knowing going into it. Other times when we've had mushrooms or ayahuasca, we didn't know it was going to come up and then it just kind of hit us in the face. But with regards to your life, your healing and your growth, I think your first ayahuasca ceremony is, I mean, just on par with fucking any trip report I've ever heard. So I'd love for you to dive into that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Going into it, they always want you to have like an intention. And my intention, if I can remember correctly, it was just, I'm open to whatever this experience is.

And then I have a little list of, I want healing with, you know, my eating disorders and, you know, just little like things that I just had my, an idea of what it was going to be. And then, um, right when the medicine kicked in, you were laying on my right side and our good friend, Justin was laying on my left,. Rotha Bone, his first ceremony also. And right when the medicine kicked in, I was laying there and I just sat up. This is all in vision, but it felt like it was happening

as I was moving through it, but I sat up. And we were surrounded by nature everywhere. We're laying under these giant canopies of trees and, and the Nate, the, the bushes that kind of surround are right in front of like hills. It was just, we're right in this Canyon. Um, but one of the giant bushes, this giant bear just like came out from behind and stood up on its hind feet. And it was just staring at me. And I remember sitting there and I was kind of like, is anyone else seeing this giant bear? Like, should I be terrified?

But I didn't feel, I felt like some fear, but it wasn't like if you were actually in the woods and a giant bear stood up and you're like, ah, run. So I kind of just stared at it and it was looking right at me and then it turned and started to walk up. And, but it kept stopping and turning and looking back at me. And so then it started to walk up and but it kept stopping and turning and looking back at me and so then it was like oh I'm going to follow you okay so I started

following this bear through the woods and the terrain just kept feeling so much like it was just getting harder and harder to to climb and as I was walking I kind of started to hunch over and like walk on my hands and feet, kind of mimicking the bear. And then I noticed my hands were becoming bear claws. And as I was trying to climb over this boulder, it was like, ah, I don't know how to walk. I was a bear. And so I started to fall and the big bear caught me and pulled me up and cradled me. And I looked into its eyes and it had gold eyes. And my father had gold eyes.

And it was just an instant. It's my father. It's my dad. And it held me. And basically my day was just spent being a bear with my real dad and having conversations and just talking about my life and what I'd been through. And it was incredibly beautiful. And obviously I'm going to condense all of it in to make it less it's an eight-hour experience so that's a lot of details to cover but um i remember at one point the we came into like we'd been spending all this time and talking and we came into this clearing and there was, uh, like a river and there was a mama bear with two cubs, like just over playing in the water. And she's just standing there watching them. And I was, I was watching them and then I turned and, and he was gone. The bear had, the big bear had just, it was just gone. And, um, I just remember just panicking and feeling, um,

so much anger, so much rage as I was like running, like looking everywhere, trying to find it and screaming like, no, don't leave me again. I didn't think I was going to cry telling this story again. But it just felt that pain that I never really talked about because I never knew him. It didn't make sense to me as a child. I just never talked about it. I never cried about it. And as I came around this corner, no, actually, it was during that when I was running through that I had my first purge. And I remember thinking, because all I had eaten that morning was like a couple handful, like a couple grapes. And I remember I had my first purge from that feeling of like anger, running, looking for him. And I remember puking. It was just this tiny little thing.

And I was like, that wasn't bad. Let's talk about puking. Like, that wasn't horrible and then just as more um time went me looking for him finding him him then having a conversation just saying he was sorry and that he loved me and my sisters and that um he just didn't know you know he didn't know that he had other other options that he had other things he could have done but that he did love me and I then had uh I'm trying to remember where the second puke because I puked three times I think the second puke was it was in there somewhere but the second puke was definitely way more in there somewhere, but the second puke was definitely

way more aggressive than the first one, but it was just out of release. So anytime those feelings throughout that day, anytime I was feeling, because it was like that, I was having wonderful times with him, but then I'd get really mad or really sad and then purge. So the second one was that, but then I remember him, me saying, or, or like saying, like, I don't know, like at one point I couldn't remember how to, I couldn't walk as a bear. And I was like, oh, I don't know how to walk like as a bear. And then I had this like flashback of a hallway with like this thick carpet. And there was a light at the end of the hallway. And my dad was like leaning over, holding his arms out to me.

And I was low to the ground and I had little baby hands. But it was from the baby's eyes, the baby's vision. And it was like learning to walk. I started walking when I was like nine months. And so later I had asked my mom, like, did we live in a house when I was a baby? Did we live in a house? And kind of described it. And I was given a memory. I was shown a memory from my baby eyes of me walking to my father. And it was just like as simple as that is, it's cool to have a memory.

And then one of the moments when I saw the mama bear and her cubs, it was very symbolic of my mother. And I dove into my mother mother and that's, that's where the visions and the, the, um, just going into my mother's life and seeing, it was still happening. I just fought with my mother so much because of just how closed-minded she was and how overly religious and judgmental. And I always felt like I had to protect my siblings and just all of it. But then this ceremony really just shifted how I interacted with my mother, how much I loved her and appreciated her and appreciated her intense faith. Not in a sense of like, I love her talking to me about it,

but if this is the thing that kept her going and has kept her going and given her purpose and given her just, if this is what makes her happy and this is what got her through all the craziness that happened to us in our childhood and in her and her childhood, then I have gratitude for that. I have gratitude for the thing that kept my mom going. But in ceremony, when I finally had this moment of release, releasing that pain, that very deep rooted pain, that anger that I really suppressed probably my entire life. I just felt this knot as I was just over the bucket. Nothing was coming out, but I could feel this

ball just moving from my stomach all the way up. It felt like I was like, oh, like forever. And it was like, I need to breathe. But when it came out, there was such release and peace. And then the bear walked back into my visionary state. And I just laid, I remember we were laying by water and we weren't talking, but we were just there. And it felt just wonderful having that release and really not expecting that. I really did not expect to spend the day with my dad. And I didn't expect, I didn't know that that pain was still there as strongly as it was. Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Yeah, it's funny. I don't want to get too off topic, but anytime I post stuff about psychedelics and plant medicines, there's always people on two sides of the fence. One side of the fence is the people who have experienced them or want to experience them and they're believers in it. And the other side of the fence is people who believe it can be done with other means, you know, and that we should be just going to therapy and doing different things. But, you know, you and I both, I mean, I know you've had more therapy than I, but we started going to therapists from a very young age and nothing has moved the bar for me as fast as something as powerful as ayahuasca or heroic dose of mushrooms. And so to think about your experience with that, like, could you have gotten some healing around your father in therapy? Sure. I'm sure you did

already because you'd already been to therapy and already discussed a lot of that stuff. But to have an experience like that, I mean, it's incomparable to anything out there. And there's, with the exception of talking to Jesus himself, there's no one you're going to talk to or the Buddha or Lao Tzu or whoever great teacher there is. There's no one you're going to talk to that could give you something as meaningful or as powerful as that. Yeah, no, I agree. I think even though I went to lots of therapy and counseling and things like that, I still felt, uh, when I would sit and talk with them and anytime, like the, the talk, just the sharing out loud was really, um, good just to talk about it. But the moment

a therapist or counselor would open their mouth or offer any insight or tools, I remember even as a child shutting off because it was, to me, it was like, you have no idea. You just read it in a book. You have no idea what I've been through. So I was not receptive to listening to people unless I knew their background like oh we went through there was a woman when I lived in Mams California and it was like our childhood was so similar and her and I used to go for walks and she acted as a therapist and I took tools a lot of tools from her because I thought, okay, you've gone through it and you know what I've been through and you are happy.

You have a family and you seem good. But that first ceremony completely changed my relationship with my mom. And she definitely still triggers me, but how I handle it and how I move, you know, handle her, it's always with love. It's always with kindness. Um, and I know how to set boundaries so that it never gets to a place where we're screaming at each other. I never want that kind of interaction with my mom because I do love her. My family does know about our site. I told them the moment I did my first mushroom ceremony.

I've always been. I don't care if people approve or understand, but I'd rather my family and friends know me, really know me and know what I'm doing, know what I'm about, than not know me. Than just me like, oh, how's the weather? Oh, how's the kids? I want you to know me and know what i'm doing i want you to know my truth awesome yeah all right so we've gone through uh your first mushroom experience and your first ayahuasca experience and a lot of the ways that that's helped you grow without a doubt the most challenging experience we've ever had has been with open relationship. And it took a long time to get to the place of even starting it. And it's taken what feels like

a long time, even though it's been a very short window, less than a year for us to come to the place that we're in now. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about how we got to say yes. And obviously plant medicines are a big part of that, I think, for us. And then also what the work has been to get to where we are now. Well, I'm not actually sure how you came to be interested, like where you heard about it first. Was it Aubrey, listening to Aubrey's podcast? It was Chris Ryan, hearing Dr. Chris Ryan on Rogan. And, you know, I bought Sex at Dawn thinking it was like another-

I remember that. Another self-help book, like this is how you can eat pussy better, or this will teach you how to be a better lover, those kinds of things things and i thought he was writing that book because of the fact that he had had sex with so many people he understood how to be a great lover and so it was like all right cool i'm gonna get this how-to guide sex at dawn and you read one of the reviews on amazon no i read the back or the back you want to fuck other people oh and then it's like what are you reading but it's funny because before dating you i dated like that i was i was in a the last serious relationship i i had had before you when that ended i said i don't care if i'm single for the rest of my life and just date

casually i never am going to be in a relationship that I'm miserable in just to be in a relationship. Like if it's not, if I'm not having fun, if I'm not happy, if this person, if I don't trust them, like I don't want that. And so from that guy, until I started dating you, I was dating and I would tell the guy like, hey, I am not looking for anything serious and I will be dating other people. If you're not cool with that, then let's just make sure we don't start any of that now. If you are, then good. We can move forward. And then when I met you in Iraq on the tour for the troops, I remember really being drawn to you. And I remember like even friends that live in Vegas, when I came back, they all told you when we had started dating, like, oh, I remember her coming back and talking about you. And I was like, yeah, he, you stood

out. We had a blast. We hit it off as friends. You were in a seven, six and a half year relationship at that point. So to me, you were married and there wasn't there, but it was perfect because we established a friendship first. I got to see how you were out of the country away from your woman. You made me laugh more than anybody. You make me laugh more than anybody I've ever known. But when you, so when you asked me to be your girlfriend, though, it was very, we'd be my girlfriend and only my girlfriend. We were friends and you knew how I was dating. I knew. Yeah. I was like, after a while, I was like, no, I need to lock this one down. one down and um but it's perfect because i feel like that set us up to we we were steps ahead when it came to once we became open because being friends

for that year beforehand and you asking me about the guys i was dating and i'd like oh let me send you their you know social media page whatever it was my space make fun of them make fun of them but we would talk we were comfortable talking about past relationships and just all of it there was never a jealousy or i don't want to hear about that and then i even moved into once we did start dating to talking about past you know who gave you your best blow job or, you know, all the different things. We were always very comfortable with that going out. We never had this possessive, you talking to my guy, you talking to my girl. It was, we've always been very comfortable and secure in who we are to each other, but also understanding like, yes, I want women to tell you how hot you are and to

dance with you. But still, when I read that book, because I think I was pregnant or I had just had bear. It was around that time. It was around that time. And it was definitely a trigger because when you presented the idea to me verbally, we had just eloped. We were doing a fake wedding for our families cause they were mad at us. We were just going to have photos, um, taken and we were driving there and you said, I want you to know just because we're married that if you ever want to sleep be you know sleep with someone else that it you can talk to me and and i i am not taking your freedom away from you and i didn't take that as like oh wow you love me it was like you want to fuck other women that's why you're offering this to me oh i see what you're doing here and it was a fight. And, but that, that fight then like shifted into a conversation.

Well, what does that mean to you? What does that look like? So what we would have a, go on a date and hook up with somebody. And, you know, so it just opened the line of communication. It also, I mean, we, we talked about it for years before we actually even acted on it and we had already had a whole bunch of fights without even sleeping with other people we had fights and we worked through shit this is so much fucking work without even getting any of the no slice of the pie for all the work we were doing. Is it worth it? But the biggest thing for us in taking as long as we did was because we were parents. And everything we do bears the one that we think about, how will this affect his life? Is this going to make his life

better? Is this going to make us better parents? It all has to do with his childhood, his upbringing, and what his experience is. He's number one. So in just talking about it, I think we fine-tuned a lot of details and things that were really important to us. And I expressed things that were not cool with me or cool with me. And then even still, it's different than we had talked about. But the base, like, what is the word I'm looking for? Foundation. The layer.

Foundation that we both agree on and that still stays to this day is, does that person, do the other people add to our lives and we add to theirs or do they take away? And that has been the number one thing that's just been beautiful and not scary when it comes to involving having bear around christian my boyfriend and the fact that he has an uncle who loves him so much and he loves so much so much kids don't fake it you know especially bear he definitely doesn't fake it he doesn't fake it at all he feels weirded out he's not going to give anybody a hug. He wouldn't hug Jim Carrey.

Like, you better fucking hug Jim Carrey. But like, there's things like that where, you know, you realize very quickly, he's already, I don't like using terminology like this, but he's 100% authentic. Like, he's living that. There's no faking it, right? And so for him to have that response to Christian, and for Christian, obviously he's great with kids. That's a huge factor. But for Bear's reaction to be that way with him, and of course, while we're on this podcast, who's watching Bear? Uncle Christian. And so just, it adds value to every one of our lives individually.

You know, I work out with him and Aubrey and we're working out later today and he's become a very close friend of mine, you know, so there's no secrets. There's no, and that's another thing, you know, real quick, I'll just, I'll just say side note. One of the ways that we got to the place that we're at was from me really feeling the pressure and wanting to read to learn more. So I read Nonviolent Communication, Conscious Loving, which is great for monogamy. All these are great for monogamy too. And then More Than Two, An Ethical Guide to Polyamory. And the one thing they said consistently in the polyamorous book was everyone does it differently, but the only thing that fails every time is don't ask, don't tell.

Because you sever the cord of communication. And I talked about this with Eric Godsey, even though I think this episode will air before the Godsey episode, we talked about that. How you have to have that line of communication. And you can draw a line in the sand where it's not, I'm going to tell you every position and every detail and how I finished or how-

Even though I like hearing it. I mean, with having that, having our past there where we did discuss things like that, it is a turn on, you know, and people, you could call me at least 40% cuck because it is something where it's always been a turn on for me to think about you experiencing pleasure. And even if that was from someone else. And that's how I feel. I think that your life experience, that's why us talking about even past relationships never didn't bother us because it's like, you are who you are today because of all the past experiences. And the whole, like the constant comparing and competing ourselves to someone else and oh, is this person better in this thing?

None of that really matters. If you are being yourself fully, if you walk in the bedroom and you are just, you channel that sex goddess and you're free and you have fun and you're not, oh, God, don't look at this thing. There's nothing. Yeah, if you're not in your head and you're in your heart space, it's a completely different experience. And that translates to everything in life. We constantly compare ourselves to others. We constantly think in terms of wealth or in terms

of accomplishment or in terms of feats of strength. Is he a better athlete than me or is she a better athlete than me? And all these things. And one of the keys to being happy in life is to really just focus on yourself, to be the best version you can be of you and to not compare to other people. But I think one of the beautiful things in particular that Open has showed me is if there's a reflection of, if there is fear around you leaving me or him being better or him having a bigger cock or any of those things, the flip side of that coin is how I view myself. It's really what I think of myself. It's my own self-esteem. It's my own belief in my own skills.

And I think that's such an important piece to understand. It's very hard to go through that fire and figure that out. And it only has happened through the fires that we figure this shit out. It's never happened in plant medicine ceremonies. It's only happened in this. And I'm not saying this is for everyone. I don't think ayahuasca is for everyone. And I don't know that we'll do this our entire lives. I love the way we have it right now. And if it never changed, I would be fucking satisfied because it's amazing. And to be clear for people

listening, Tasha's a boyfriend. I don't have a girlfriend. Yet. Yet. But I'm just saying, that's how good it is for me to say that, yeah, sure, I'd like to have sex with other people. That's one of the reasons we started this. Novelty is amazing. But at the same time, Christian adds a piece to our lives that wasn't there before, and he's irreplaceable in many ways. And there's no reason for him to go anywhere but upward with us. Onward and upward. We go together as a tribe. And to touch on the don't ask, don't tell, one of the beautiful things about being so open and communicating and sharing and being the teammates that we are is that I get to help. I get to help. I get to help Kyle. I get to help you find another partner. I get to be, and then in turn, I get a girlfriend. I get a friend, a best friend, a family member, a sister.

And being involved in that picking is nice. It's not just you showing up and look, this is who I am. And I'm like, whoa, I don't vibe with this girl at all. It's nice. If you and Christian, you guys didn't really know each other when I brought him over to kind of meet the family. He and I had just hung out a few times in the sauna, did some sprints. That was his shtick.

I didn't mean to do sprints. He knew I'd like to run. But if you guys didn't vibe, if you guys didn't build the friendship that you have now, this wouldn't be coming into eight months. It wouldn't be fun. It wouldn't feel comfortable. And I'm very sensitive to people's energy

and their comforts and discomforts. So if I was hanging out with both of you in the house and it never got to the place that it is and it just stayed like, are got to the place that it is. And it just stayed like, are you happy? Are you happy? Is everyone cool here? Then it wouldn't have worked. So that friendship, having the friendship with the other people involved and their feelings matter too. I think I'd seen a question someone asked, like, how do we handle other people, like the other people that are involved? Christian's part of the family,

like his feelings, his needs, his wants. It's open communication. We are constantly, all three of us, checking in with each other. Yeah, and I think that it's inviting too. I mean, first of all, for better or worse, you don't let shit fester. If something's bothering you, you're going to say it and speak your mind immediately. And there's certainly pros and cons to that. More pros,

definitely more pros than cons, but I never have to guess if you're in a good mood or not. I never have to guess if something's bothering you or not. And I think that invites all of us to come forward with how we feel, you know, and because it's never shunned away or, you know, like if you brought up to me how you're feeling and I just fucking blamed you for that feeling and didn't acknowledge it and didn't use nonviolent communication and just shit on your experience, that wouldn't go over very well. And that would not be inviting for Christian either to then speak his mind if he knew that I always reacted negatively to shit hitting the fan, as opposed to if I can remain soft and receive what you have to hear. And then even if one of us isn't communicating with nonviolent communication, for the other

to use that to decipher the code and understand and repeat back, this is what I'm hearing from you right now. What can I do to help? What is the need that I can hopefully fulfill for you to help make you feel better about the situation? And I think at every turn, we've given that permission for christian and for anybody else to be able to speak freely about that and his level i mean he's 10 years younger than me which was a huge hurdle for me to get over like damn he's young he's in shape

all this but he's so far ahead of where i was when i was that age and he's come a long way, even just to eight months with how he won't let shit fester. And you can always tell, you can always dig it out of him if there's something he's trying to hold on to. But we always circle back upward. Even if there's one step back, there's two steps forward. And it's been consistently that throughout. So it's like an exponential curve of growth and love and communication that we all have. And it's really fucking rad. Yeah. Something I had told him in one of our first official fights was because he had asked you like, hey, has Tasha always been really good at working through things in the moment, not letting things fester and not holding on to things for days or just like go to sleep, wake up, pretend like it never happened. Let's move on with our life.

You know, asking you if I've always been really good at it. And you said, no, he can thank you for that. We've done the work. And it's true. We did. To be clear, I didn't fix you. You fixed you and I fixed me. No, we both together,

we both wanted to be better at communication and we both like through experience, don't sleep at night. If we went to bed angry at each other or fighting and then we're just going to roll over and go to sleep, we aren't going to sleep. So even if we're up for another hour and a half, two hours working through it, we're going to do that. We're not going to go to bed mad at each other. And one of the things I

told him was what I like to do when I am annoyed or frustrated or mad at someone, you, Christian, Christian. It could be anybody. My mom, my sisters. I stop and I think, is this thing I'm mad about, does this mean I don't love them? Does this mean I don't love them anymore? No. Okay. So I can soften. I can soften and I can talk. And I still have some work to do when it comes to the presentation of that softening and opening up still have some work to do when it comes to the presentation of that softening and opening up the line of communication to talk about it. But it's a matter of, does this situation, this thing happening between us, does this mean I don't love this person? If not, then let's work through it. Let's get this behind us and move on and enjoy our day and enjoy however many days we have left together. It's not worth holding onto, holding a grudge, rehashing.

Yeah. It's so much better if we actually can. Just having the mindset to, to get through things together and to know that it is important to not let it sit, but actually move through it. It's, it's reminds me of, you know, Perongi and I've, I've said this a hundred times or more, but Perongi, when he talks about the Lakota, the story behind the Buffalo, you know, and the buffalo sees the storm. They know they can't outrun it. The fastest way through the storm is to get shoulder to shoulder with their family and go headfirst into it.

That's the fastest way through the storm. And that buffalo medicine, it's so important in life because that is how we should approach everything. You know, any difficult situation, if we turn away from it, it's just going to last longer. But if we face it and move through it, that's the fastest way to get through it. And I think that's been such a critical piece to us being where we're at now. Yeah. Yeah. And just looking at every experience as an experience to learn and grow and heal and making life what you want it to be.

And not for us, not just following with what society tells us, this is how a family should look. This is what a relationship looks like. This is what a relationship looks like. This is what health looks like. This is what, you know, just all of it. It's knowing we live in a place and in a time where we can do whatever we want as far as how we live our life. And neither of us really tolerate hatred and things like that on social media. So if anyone's listening and wants to write nasty things, you'll be blocked. I don't interact with it. It's fine. You're fine to have your opinion and your beliefs, but I don't share any of my life with anybody to, to try to convince anybody to do what I do or believe what I believe. This is just me sharing my story and my tools. And, um,

I think there, there's an invitation that we don't have to agree on everything. And there's so many friends. This includes me and you. This includes friends and family members. We don't have to agree on everything. But if we can come to a place in our communication where we can hear each other, we can better understand one another. And I still don't have to change my position to agree with you, but I can at least understand you better. And from that understanding, I begin to know myself

and get clearer about my own personal beliefs and opinions, and I can know you better as well. But it takes not wanting to sever that cord of communication or not saying, you know, I mean, anytime I post something about homosexuals online, like the fact that I support gay people and lesbian people, that it's, it's, oh, fucking K. It is okay. And you will not burn in hell for that decision. And you will not burn in hell for being born that way. You will not burn in hell for those things. I have a firm fucking belief in that. And that rubs a lot of people the wrong way because of what they were taught growing up, because of what the books they read said, because of how their parents acted when they brought that up. And if they can't recognize that in themselves, that's okay. But at least

recognize the fact that, hmm, if I disagree entirely and think gays are going to burn, maybe I say that in a way that's less aggressive or maybe I just not say anything. And I can disagree, but I don't have to chime in, you know, and I don't have to block Kyle or stop listening to the podcast or stop listening to Tosh. I can just say, oh, okay, that's interesting. I disagree, but I'm still willing to listen because there are nuggets of things that I do want to try.

And there are nuggets of things that I do believe in and that I know have worked for myself. And I think that's a skill that we've lost in the social media era. The troll era is in. And the idea that, you know, Rogan talks about this. Can we teach kindness? You know, can we teach people how to communicate with one another? Like that's becoming a lost art that really needs to be rekindled. Yeah. Something I love that I got from yoga teacher training was, if you cannot say it with kindness, don't say it at all. And that goes, that even, that applies to

if someone's wronged you, if you cannot present your situation, your story with kindness, then don't say anything. And the big shift for me coming out of calling myself a Christian and moving into, I still believe in God. It's not the same picture that's described in the Bible, but we are all part of God, God energy. We are all part of that source. And that source is love. That's all it comes down to. The source is love. And I did not, I realized through, you know, I can't remember when exactly it was, if it was after my first ceremony or whatever, but I was believing out of fear. And I very quickly was, I don't want to believe something just because I'm afraid. And that's something I love about the 49th Mystic by Ted Decker is just, it's beautiful

depiction of that thought. Yeah. And if you're, you know, I wanted to, I'm happy you brought it up because I wanted to recommend those for anybody who is Christian or was Christian at a certain point in their life. I think that is one of the most fantastic books I've ever read from a Christian to describe what my understanding of God is and in the ways, and this isn't just like, I mean, confirmation bias. We look for the things out there that verify our own beliefs, but it extended and helped me understand in a deeper way what that picture is of God. And he has The 49th Mystic and Rise of the Mystics, a two-part book series. That's one of my favorite novels of all time. And then he also has The Forgotten Way, which I think is perfect for people who are balls deep in Christianity.

If you're an avid Bible reader and you are very much, I don't want to say stuck, but very strong in your beliefs, to read The Forgotten Way, which uses a gang of quotes from the Bible and depictions and in his own understanding of what those meanings are, I mean, it changed the way I view Jesus. Obviously Ayahuasca did that as well, but like very much Christ is in my heart and it's not in the way that most people would say that.

Yeah. I think just also one last thing on that. When I became a parent, when I became a mother, the thought of like, we've created this being. There is nothing, there's nothing Bear could do that would make us cast him the furthest away from us into fire and torture and suffering. You legitimately have unconditional love for your child. That's unconditional love. That is source love for us. And there, there's so many, especially I have my entire family still

religious and we still have lots of conversations. And, um, for me, I I've never felt closer to God. And I've also never felt more peace in my own life and healing. My family's seen it too. From the beginning of when I started doing plant ceremonies to now, the conversations they would have, the worry, the this, the that, and then just seeing the shift in me and how I interact with my mother and just them in general. It's like they're not worried. They don't have that, like, they don't really ask. Don't ask, don't tell. I still tell. But yeah.

Awesome. Well, we're going to link to your socials in the show notes give my wife an amazing follow and let us know what you think at kingsboo at natasha kingsbury on ig and just write us we'll have social clips for this when it comes up

and we will also be partnering this with a q and a so we asked you guys to reach out any questions you have we have a shit ton of great. So we're going to have to separate that podcast just due to time constraints. And we'll be releasing them both in the same week for people, maybe on the same day. But thank you so much. I love you more than you'll ever know, pal. You're amazing. I love you. Now we're going to do it. On the table. As Al walks in. All right, we're out.

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