Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #118 David Green
Episode Date: October 21, 2019David Greene is the co-host of the BiggerPockets podcast and a nationally renowned author, agent, speaker, coach, entrepreneur and real estate investor in the California, San Francisco Bay Area. Break... out your notebook and get ready to learn from one of the best in real state investing. Connect with David | Website | http://greeneincome.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/davidgreene24/ Twitter | https://twitter.com/davidgreene24 Youtube | https://bit.ly/2OVCW8k Check out David Green’s book Buy, Rehab,Rent, Refinance, Repeat | https://amzn.to/301FcvQ Listen to the Bigger Pockets Podcast | https://www.biggerpockets.com/podcast Show Notes | The One Thing by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan | https://amzn.to/2z2dJyk Wild At Heart by John Eldredge | https://amzn.to/2Z3BKzG Show Sponsors| Indochino Visit www.indochino.com Use codeword Kyle at checkout for 30%off your total purchase of $399 or more plus free shipping Felix Gray Blue Blocker Sunglasses (Free Shipping/ 30 days risk-free, returns and exchanges) felixgrayglasses.com/kyle https://bit.ly/2J0BhJA Butcher Box www.butcherbox.com/kyle $20 off your first box (Limited Time offer) Plus two pounds of grass fed beef for the life of your subscription Waayb CBD www.waayb.com (Get 10% off using code word Kyle at checkout) Onnit - Hydrocore Bag Get 10% off all foods and supplements at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/kyle/ Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Website | https://www.kingsbu.com Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk Subscribe to the Kyle Kingsbury Podcast itunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2Ib3HCg Google Play Music | https://bit.ly/2HPdhKY
Transcript
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Hey, friends. Welcome to today's show. We've got an awesome guest named David Green. I first heard
about him through one of my oldest friends, Blake Edwards. David is the host of the Bigger Pockets
podcast, which is all about real estate investment. He's written a few different books about it.
Now, I'm sure you're asking, why a real estate investment guy on the Kyle Kingsbury podcast?
As you know, I've been
branching out trying to get different folks on here to optimize every avenue of life. And one
of the things that stuck out to me about David is his particular insights around mindset. And this
has made him not only one of the most successful people in real estate, but one of the best people
to work for, according to my boy, Blake Edwards. So after some long conversations around getting this guy on, we
finally met up with each other here in Austin and had an amazing podcast. Definitely one of my
favorites. So as you always hear from me, there are a few ways that you guys can support this
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Please check out this show. I had a great
time. I know you guys are going to learn a lot. Even if you have absolutely no interest in investing
in real estate, you're going to learn a lot from David Green and myself on this one. Thank you guys
for tuning in. He said you weren't super down with the police thing. I want to get to your
background. Totally fine. But as with most good Tarantino movies, they start in the middle and
then they circle back to the beginning.
So we were just talking about the difference between, you know, we're both from the Bay Area.
And, you know, you come here to Austin and it says keep Austin weird and how comical that is because it's not really weird.
It's not weird by Bay Area standards.
And talking about Portland, Portland is certainly weird.
And they have a keep Portland weird.
And, you know, I was talking about this story where I was standing in line at Voodoo Donuts and this lady freaked out on two guys standing there panhandling. And I get up to the guys and I'm like, these guys are 10 years younger than me. Like you have a fucking sound mind, sound body. There's not a damn reason you should be here begging for money or a donut. You know, hey, man, let me get five bucks. Hey, man, let man let me just get a donut you know and then asking for specific donuts like going as far as they wanted the jelly filled with raspberry and it's like fucking beat it the two guys finally they have enough people turn them
down they leave in a brand new subaru outback and i was like this is portland like this is some shit
you would never see anywhere else not to know shit on portland i love it i love b town and it
certainly is weird but by
you know when you come here to austin and they say keep austin weird you're like oh
that's like right wing standard of weird that's the rest of texas standard of weird that's the
south standard of weird that's what austin is compared to where we're from this is not weird
at all this is actually pretty tame yeah even even like the the homeless people that were walking
around in austin that everybody's so upset with i'm like they're really well behaved compared to
what you see in san francisco there's no one chasing around with a needle or yeah yeah yeah
i forget where it is like dotty's true blue cafe in uh the tenderloin and it was on diners
drive-ins and dives and i've eaten there a times. But you stand in line and you're in the thick of the tenderloin.
You know, and you got people coming up like,
what's up, sugar?
I'm like bald man.
You know, it's like, whoa, okay.
All right.
Going down.
That's what somebody does, right?
I think it's a good example of the group of people that you hang out with
is much more important than most people understand or naturally understand.
Because you're going to take on the ideals, the mindset of people around you. So those guys that were at Voodoo Donuts growing up in a
culture like how Portland is, it's totally normal to say, hey, let's go stand outside for a couple
hours and try to get ourselves a couple donuts where you and I would say, you got a nice Subaru.
Why don't you go Uber for two hours, make yourself 50 bucks, then you can buy a donut and have 45
bucks left over. But their mind wouldn't think that way because they're not accustomed to people that think that
way. And if you're not careful about who you spend time with, you're going to slip into whatever the
mindset of who you're around, and that may not be what works best for you. Yeah, there's a lot to
dive into here. Obviously, I mean, for people who don't know you, we'll give you a good intro,
which comes before this, after the fact, if that makes sense to anybody listening right now.
But you have the number one real estate podcast on iTunes. You are huge in the mindset and what
makes people tick. Psychology has been something you've gravitated towards. Let's talk a bit about
how you grew up and what shaped you and got you to where you are now. Oh, that's good stuff, man.
So I grew up in Manteca, California, which is
about an hour and a half east of San Francisco. The water slides. Yeah, water slides. That's
exactly right. I tore them down to build a bunch of houses. Real sad. But it was kind of a commuter
town for people that live in San Francisco or work in San Francisco. And my first love was
basketball. Loved basketball. It was all that I wanted to do. And there was physical limitations
with how far I could take that love that I had for basketball. I wasn't fast enough and jump high
enough to get to higher levels. And then there was some just psychological experiences I had in just
the high school level of having a new coach come in my senior year, not getting to play like I
thought I was going to. And just like there was always these roadblocks. And it was immensely
frustrating, just like a very difficult time in being told no
when you so badly want, you believe in yourself,
you know you can get to the next level,
but there's things outside of your control
that keep you from getting there.
And I went through like a very difficult time
trying to figure out, well, who am I
if I'm not a basketball player all the way through college?
But I took the principles
that had made me a good basketball player
and I applied them to wherever I was.
So I would work in restaurants.
I would be the best waiter I could be,
work as many tables as I can, as well as I can. I saved up all my money. I graduated from college with a psychology degree and about 90 grand in the bank. And I had my car paid off,
my school paid for. I was working all day, right? So the timing worked out perfect for me because
right when I graduated is when the economy tanked. So I had about one year after graduation. I graduated in 05. I worked at this really nice
restaurant until 2006. I got a job as a deputy sheriff. I saved money for two years. The economy
completely fell apart. So luckily, when you're working as a police officer, you're pretty safe
as far as your job's concerned or so you would think. So I started buying rental properties
because I had all this money that I'd saved up and now the real estate has dumped. And I had no
intention of being a real estate investor. I just knew I'm going to need a house someday,
so I should buy one and rent it out until I'm ready. Well, I ended up getting laid off of the
department I worked for because of budget cuts. And I went to a new department where I could work
more overtime and I had more opportunity. It was really good. And I just kept saving money and
buying houses, but I was never really intentionally trying to build this empire. It was just, it made
sense to do. Why not do it? And eventually I got really good at doing that. So I had quite a few
rentals. California became too expensive to invest in when the market turned around. So I moved to
Arizona. I started buying there. Unbeknownst to me, nobody else was really buying out of state.
I didn't know you weren't supposed to do that. I just went and did it because it didn't make
sense in California. That real estate became expensive. I moved to Florida. I started buying rentals there. And then I got interviewed on this Bigger
Pockets podcast. So they asked me about like, you know, how are you doing this? And I talked about
buying properties out of state, led to my first book deal with them. That book, Long Distance
Real Estate Investing, did really well. And that sort of skirted the career that I'm into now,
teaching other people how to invest. That's awesome. There is a lot in the world
of finance right now, particularly that is polarized between how you look at real estate.
And some people say it's not an investment. Markets are fragile and we don't know when the
next bubble is going to burst and all that shit. And then you know as well as I do,
I grew up in the Bay Area. I grew up in the Silicon Valley.
There's guaranteed returns, even after 2008, that your house will appreciate and you will make
money. And especially if you buy one of these shitty old flat tops for 700,000, tear it down
and build something up with your own money, you're going to make a return there fairly quickly.
How do you model that in the face of... And first,
I guess, talk about the psychology of why you can invest in real estate and make an impact.
Well, real estate is unique in the way you can build wealth from it and that there's several
different ways. And if you do it correctly, it's almost impossible to lose. Now, I don't...
There's a lot of gurus that will say the same thing and say, now spend $30,000 for my course
and I'll teach you the case. It's much more simple than that. You're going to make the majority of
your money, like you said, buying in a market that's going to appreciate a lot. The people
that lost money between say like 2001 and 2008 or so, 2009, were buying purely for that purpose
alone. We call it like speculation. They were just hoping that the house would go up in value.
Very similar to buying a stock. I bought it at $20 a share. I hope it goes up to $30.
If it goes down, there's nothing I can do.
Well, real estate's unique in the sense that it will actually generate income for you while
you own it.
You're collecting rent.
And if you make sure that the expenses associated with owning that house are less than the rent
that you're collecting, you're actually in the black.
You're making money every single month.
We call that cash flow.
So I look at it like you're climbing this mountain.
And as your property becomes worth more, you got these winds pushing you up that mountain. It's really easy.
Well, at certain points, the winds aren't going to be pushing up. They're going to be pushing down.
But that cash flow acts like a belay. So if I buy a house for 300 grand and it drops to 150,
but it's making me money every month, that belay caught me. I can't fall. And I just stay there
until the market turns around and comes back up. the people who lose money are the speculators who don't make sure the
property cash flows they just buy it knowing they're going to lose a thousand bucks a month
but if they're going to sell it in a year they're okay as long as it goes up so what i teach people
is you need to buy for property that will cash flow so you're safe and then if it appreciates
that's just a bonus that you can make your money and eventually it will the markets are always are always going to turn around. If you look at what real estate's done over 30 years, it's
incredible, especially where you're from, right? Yeah. Yeah. And even here in Austin, they're
building the second, right down the street from my mom in Sunnyvale, they have the new Apple
building that just got finished that was a billion dollars. They have plans for the second one to be
right here in Austin, just a little bit north of us. And there's a huge tech boom here. And it
reminds me of when I was growing up and just seeing the dot coms and seeing everything
happen. And it was like every small town of the peninsula became something. EPA was a shithole,
an absolute shithole. Then Facebook comes in and it's like, oh, damn, everybody wants to move there.
Fucking Mountain View was okay, like middle class at best. And then Mountain View has Google, you know,
and then you look at all these places that are changed. Yahoo is in Sunnyvale, right next to
Cupertino with Apple and like all these places blew up. And you see that now, like here in Austin,
it's like the reason there's so much traffic is because they didn't, there was no infrastructure
for this many people moving here as fast as they
have. And the last five years has completely changed. So I think if you're in a place like
this, buying real estate is really a good idea because it's not going to go the opposite
direction. Everyone's moving here. And if somehow it did go the opposite direction,
if it's generating rent, who cares? People ask me that all the time. What are you going to do
when the market crashes? And that house that was worth $ goes down to 175 or 150. I'll say I'll
celebrate because I could go buy a bunch of houses for 150 now that I don't have to spend 250.
You only get hurt if you sell. And if you're generating income, you don't have to sell.
So if you make sure your property's cashflow and you make sure you have enough money in reserves
that you can weather a storm, you won't lose when it comes to real estate investing. But the gain when you do gain is so big. When you look at what
you can do buying a house in Austin five years ago or what's going on, if you follow the tech
boom right now, you look at every city that's blowing up across the country, Seattle, Portland,
Austin, San Francisco, Madison, Wisconsin, Birmingham, Alabama, every one of those cities
is where tech companies are moving.
They bring high wages with them. There's not enough inventory for all the jobs that are moving in. It pushes the prices up higher. And then people do a lot. They do really well with real
estate. And if you feel like you're getting into a part of the market where you're coming to a crash,
then you sell that property and you move the money to somewhere safer like in the Midwest,
where prices just barely go up and they barely go down.
And that's why I wrote that book,
Long Distance Real Estate Investing, because if you get comfortable building systems
to invest anywhere, you don't have the risks
that are associated with,
well, I'm buying a house in Austin
and I hope it works out.
Like I always tell people,
you don't ever want to be hoping that anything goes well.
You don't want to be on hopium.
That's like the worst thing you could do, right?
You want to have a plan.
I'm sure like going into a fight,
if your plan is to walk into that fight and Superman that guy on the very first try and you
miss and you know you're going to lose that fight, that's a terrible plan. But there's openings where
you can definitely do that. You want to be able to take advantage of it when it comes. But the
best fighters are the guy that kind of take what the defense gives them. And investing works exactly
the same way. You understand what you're doing. You understand what your options are. It's very,
very, very low risk when it's real estate investing because the property generates income.
Now, there's not like you're buying Bitcoin. If you're buying stocks, there's no way that
you're earning money other than the asset has to appreciate. It has to appreciate.
Well, one thing you talked about, you know, like if the housing market drops, that allows you to
buy houses for less. That's a lot of what this philosophy is now
around buying stocks and indexing. If the market crashes and you have all large cap stocks and
all made cap stocks, and you've got some international stocks and everything crashes,
you're still investing. That's dollar cost averaging. That allows you to pick up extra
stocks at the same price. If I'm going to put in a thousand each month, no matter what,
I don't fucking worry about the highs and lows.
Exactly right.
You worry about earning income
to be able to invest
because you can control that.
You cannot control what the market's going to do.
And as you know,
anytime you get caught up worrying about something
you have no control over,
it creates anxiety.
It creates what we call analysis paralysis
where you just can't stop thinking about something
so you don't take action.
But if you focus on making more money
when the market drops, you're grateful. Awesome. I get to go buy cheap stuff. When the
market goes up, awesome. The assets that I had went up. And you get into a position where you
can really overcome that fear. And that's where you have to understand what you're doing. The
mindset that it takes to invest in real estate is not a complicated one. It's very simple. But you
do have to overcome all the what-ifs that go through your mind. And if you get good at doing that, well, man, you could do that at anything that you do,
and you're going to do it well. I love it. You're talking about a lot of psychology here that goes
into this. And you studied this in college. What made you gravitate towards that? Because
from judging a book by its cover, I wouldn't think that somebody who studies psychology
and is very disciplined with money and
the way that you were throughout school and a hard worker would then choose to become a cop.
Right. Yeah. I was originally a business major in college and it just became boring,
just very, very bad. And I went through like a very depressed state. And so getting up to go
to school was just becoming a grind and I wanted to drop out, but I didn't want to quit anything that I had started.
And I knew that I really didn't need to.
I had to pick a different major that would keep me interested in what I was doing.
And because I was going through depression, I was very interested in like, what makes
you depressed?
Why are some people happy?
So the why behind stuff was something I was always interested in.
And at the time I was going through depression.
So the why behind that was the answer would be in a psychology.
So that was why I started studying that. I think, so I was very frustrated, like I told you,
my basketball career not working out how I wanted. I feel like there was, whether you believe in God
or fate or whatever, that was not where I was supposed to go. It created an immense amount
of frustration, which became fuel to propel me through the other things I did. So it was a
blessing. When I look back at the time, it felt horrible. Being a cop was something that I needed in my own life just to develop confidence
that I didn't have. It was one of the times where I was forced to face the parts of myself where I
doubted myself, face the parts of myself where I was a little more timid. I had to grow just because
you get that survival thing that's going to kick in, right? Like people that are not necessarily
aggressive, if you put them into an MMA situation, you either learn to find that part
of yourself or you get the hell out of what you're doing. Cause it's like the worst thing you can do
is to, is to be hesitant when you're in a situation like that. And to, it was a much smaller scale.
Like it wasn't as intense as an MMA career, but you're putting in situations all the time where
like, if you hesitate, someone could die. You could die. Yeah. That's more intense than MMA. You're not going to die in the cage.
Like that may be a case. Yeah. You put your life on the line. It's a whole different animal.
Much more in an MMA career than it kind of runs in the background in a police career.
I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. That's big. So becoming a cop, uh, did you always see that as a means to
an end or did you see that more as like, this is something I'm going to do the rest of my life as you really gravitated towards
growth from it? No, I wanted to do that for my career. It was weird. I never had any desire to
be a cop. I hit the bug and it became all I could think about. Like, I just remember one day sitting
in the shower, just letting the water hit me and feeling this like fire in your soul that like,
it will kill me, but I won't stop. I'd applied 11 different apartments before I got picked up. And each one of those is like a six month process that you're
going through before you find out if you're going to get hired. I wanted it so bad. It was like,
this was the path that all that frustration I talked about earlier was putting me towards.
And I knew looking back, I know I needed that. I needed that training. I needed the mentorship
that you got from the recruit, the training officers in the academy, the people
that trained you in the department, kind of like the father figure roles that you had in that
environment. I planned to do that forever. And when I got in there, I just want to learn everything I
could. I want to be an instructor for everything. I wanted to learn everything that there was to
learn. The culture kind of turned against us. That was the first thing where just being a cop isn't
what it was when you first started. And you could see that you weren't going to win this battle.
And then I ended up developing an injury that just kept me from being able to be on my feet for more than 10, 15 minutes at a time. So I could see that
door was closing. And it ended up being a blessing in disguise because to look at like law enforcement
now, a lot of cops are just stuck in this thing where their skill set doesn't really transfer.
They have no way to get into another career. The public has turned against them. Their department has turned against them. There's not a whole lot of pros and they're just
becoming very bitter and cynical just by the nature of being stuck there. I was able to get
out of it. And what I found is that after putting up with that law enforcement environment and
trying to do a good job there, when I got into being a real estate agent or investor, it just
seemed easy. It was like a bunch of weights got taken off of me and I could just run at full speed.
Hell yeah. We touched on your first book. You've written two other books. Is that correct? Yeah. The new book I just wrote is the top selling book on Amazon for
real estate right now. It's doing awesome. And then what's the title? It's called buy,
rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. So we call that the BRRRR strategy. It's an acronym.
And that's all about buying like a fixer upper house, making it worth more. And once it's worth
more than you paid for it, refinancing it to pull your money out. So instead of selling
it as like a flip, you refinance it, keep it for yourself and put that money into your next deal.
No shit. Okay. And then, uh, through, I guess through refinancing it, you would have to have
it appraised and then that would potentially increase property tax, which is more here,
but not that much. Yeah. That's a bigger thing in Texas than it is in a lot of other places.
And a normal deal that I could buy is something I'd pick up for $60,000, just a tore up house
in the South somewhere.
I spend $30,000 to fix it up.
So I'm all in for $90,000.
It appraises at $120,000.
A bank will let me borrow 75% of what it appraises for.
So I get back my $90,000 and then I go buy the next house.
And it's all about not just dumping
down payment and rehab money into a house. And then you got to go save it all up again and dump
it in the next one. You're actually recycling that same capital and it forces you to buy really good
deals. You can't buy a mediocre deal. You got to hunt for something good so you can get your money
back out. But it's, I always tell people that mastery is developed by repetition and you cannot
get good at anything if you do it one time a year.
And real estate investing isn't any different.
Well, if you're just saving up money and dumping it in a house,
you're not going to do that very often unless you're super wealthy.
If you can recycle the same capital, though,
you get really good at knowing how to estimate rehabs,
which parts of town you want to buy in,
developing connections and relationships with the brokers that have the most deals.
That's how you become a black belt, is you practice the same thing over and over and over.
And the bird strategy is kind of the only way that you can do that
unless you're super wealthy with the same money.
Yeah. Obviously, if you have a ton of cheese, you don't have to worry about getting your money back
out, that kind of thing. You mentioned a couple of figures that are blowing my mind. It makes
sense to me that there are certain parts of the world where a house might only cost 60 grand and 30 to fix up.
The numbers I'm thinking of are like, you know, like I mentioned in NorCal, you tear down a
$700,000 house. That's an old shithole built in the fifties. And then it costs you 200 to 300
grand to make a new one. Is that, does that change from place to place? Like how much it's going to
cost to actually rebuild a house? The rehab will absolutely change. Like $30,000 in North Florida will get me what $60,000 to $70,000
will get me in the Bay Area. So the rehab is different. The other thing you have to factor in
is we have what's called the 1% rule, which is this metric that if a house will rent for 1%
every month of what you paid for it, it will probably cash flow positively. So you'll make
money every month. If it's less than 1%, you get to where it will probably cashflow positively. So you'll make money every month.
If it's less than 1%, you get to where it's harder to do that.
So if you were to do what we described in the South Bay
and spend 700 grand on a house and 200 grand on a rehab,
it'd have to rent for somewhere
between seven to $9,000 a month before you could cashflow.
And that's not gonna happen
because if you have $9,000 a month down there,
you're just gonna go buy a house.
So you can only flip that house to make money.
There's certain parts of the country
where hitting the 1% rule is much easier.
So that's what I do is I'm like,
all right, I'm not going to try to force this round peg
into a square hole trying to make this work in my market.
I'm going to go to the parts of the country
where it makes sense to buy rentals and buy rentals.
And I'm going to flip houses in the parts of the country
where it makes sense to do it.
And then it just becomes putting a system together,
having the people in place that you need
to like do the stuff for yourself.
And it's like most things in life.
It is not easy, but it's not complicated.
It's a pretty simple thing,
but you got to put the work into finding the right people,
learning how to read people who you can trust
and then building systems to get that work done.
You talk about reading people.
I mean, I think obviously the psychology background
plays a big deal into that. Do you, with your real estate business now at NorCal, are you actually doing
real estate like typical, like a realtor would do with people or are you just, okay.
Yeah. So I sell houses and help buyers and sellers in the Bay area in Sacramento. And then I take
that money and I invest it into other parts of the country.
Shit. So you're doing all forms of real estate.
Yeah. I'm very big into like what I call like a synergistic Shit. So you're doing all forms of real estate.
Yeah. I'm very big into what I call a synergistic approach to what you're doing. So if you're understanding how to invest in real estate, how to build wealth for people,
you're different than other realtors in that you're just a happy person with a nice smile
and you can kiss babies. They're coming to you because this is the guy that can help make me
money in real estate. Well, if you do that right, more people should be coming to you. So you should make more money so you have
more that you can go buy, which gets you better at building wealth so that you can help other people.
And those two things are actually helping each other. And if you look at what successful people
who have built a successful brand or a big business do, I can always point to where there
was a synergy between one thing they did well in life and how they branched out from there.
Right. There's a starting place. That's exactly right. And the business people who do the best
naturally see that. Well, I've got a gym. This is a great gym. I need to start selling supplements
because people will trust me when they know me from this gym and I need to start doing coaching.
And then how can I branch off where it's not starting a completely new business you know
nothing about? You're not starting a Build-A-Bear in the mall somewhere that you don't understand. It's very close to
what you're already doing and you kind of branch out. And then you've created a whole ecosystem
that can generate revenue for you based on something that you're the expert in.
None of us want to invest with a person who's doing something that they don't understand
anything about. Yeah, I spent 20 years in this field, but I've just got my feet wet here.
But I was great in the other thing.
I always tell people like Michael Jordan, best basketball player that ever played,
was not a great executive.
He still to this day is not known as a very good owner.
It's a completely different skill set between being a competitive athlete
and being a business person.
And so when you're considering who to partner with,
you can't assume that because they were good at one thing
that they'll necessarily be good at the next.
You really have to see that their mind can make the connection between the two.
And the skills they had in this area will actually work in the new area also.
I love it.
Shit, yeah.
It's reminding me of Honest Growth.
We started in Aubrey's Garage with just Alpha Brain.
And from there, created more supplements and then got a small building.
And then from there, it grew and it grew.
And then Kettlebells, Macy's, Fitness Equipment, got a small building. And then from there it grew and it grew and then kettlebells,
maces,
fitness equipment.
Now a lifestyle brand with,
we got our,
our dude,
Sean Heisen was one of the main writers for men's health.
He's writing for us now.
And we just pump out content,
you know,
help people change their lives.
And I think that it's funny how it's like you said,
it wasn't a huge leap from any one particular point,
but it all stemmed from one plant-based nootropic. That was it. And there's a, It's funny how, it's like you said, it wasn't a huge leap from any one particular point,
but it all stemmed from one plant-based nootropic.
That was it.
And there's a, you could find a pattern in everything you did where there's a similarity
in all of it that it wasn't a huge jump.
In fact, have you ever heard of The One Thing
by Gary Keller and Jay Papazian?
It's a business book.
No.
It's basically about the whole premise of the book
is what's the one thing that you could do right now
that would make everything else either easier or unnecessary.
When you're faced with a ton of options, how you figure out where you should start.
And in chapter two of that book, they describe what's called geometric progression.
And it's this idea that a domino can knock down another domino that's one and a half times bigger than itself.
So one inch domino can knock down a two and a half inch domino and so forth.
And by the 17th domino, you can knock down something the size of Leaning Tower of Pisa.
And I believe by the 36th domino, you can knock down something the size of Mount Everest,
right?
And there's several lessons when I look back at my success and how I've moved forward since
I left being a cop really quickly, where I can recognize that I was naturally taking
advantage of this concept of knocking down dominoes that I'm sure on it did the very
same thing. A lot of the times when we have something that we do well, that's like
knocking over a domino. You don't look to see what other domino it could knock down to give you the
next shot. You just congratulate yourself on what you did good and then work on pushing over the
next time. That's a lot of work when you line dominoes up. So for me, you know, I was buying
these rental properties and I got interviewed on the Bigger
Pockets podcast. Well, I did a good job and they said, you did a great job. And I said, okay,
can I start writing blog articles for your website? That was the next domino I knocked down.
I did the very best I could at writing articles. I would talk to the editor and say, what are the
ones that people click on the most? How long should they be? What's a good example? And I
became the top blog writer on that site. And then they came to me and
said, man, you write really well. Do you want to write a book? That was another domino. That book
now opens up doors for you. And you get to pick which of those doors you want to go through.
Where's all your dominoes lined up? And as long as you're not knocking down the same size domino
over and over, which is something people get sucked into, they'd sell the same house, right?
Same size house. You look for what doors will this open up for me. Your growth will be
like geometrically progressive. It will sky high up as opposed to just a linear type growth.
And when you look at successful people, I can always point out this is what they did. Like,
we sat down and pointed out how on it started to where it is now. I could find the dominoes you
guys knocked over. And when people are frustrated that they're not having the success they want,
or they look at someone else and you get, oh, it must be nice to be that guy.
You're just not like lining up the dominoes to know where you want to go.
Yeah. Tony Robbins talks about that. When we see people that we are impressed with,
or that we want to emulate, we're looking at a finished product. We're not, you know,
it doesn't matter who you are. Everyone has their own struggles. Everyone has their own
accomplishments. Even with you start, like, I think one of the Koch brothers was recently on the Tim Ferriss
podcast and he talked about how his dad, you know, they started with 21 million or something like
that, but he's brought that to billions. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, he had a good starting
place, but he didn't just take that and milk it. He brought it to a whole different level.
And I think like, you know, it doesn't matter if you start with nothing. There are countless stories of people who started with
nothing and turned themselves into something. Dude, just living in America, you're the equivalent
of starting with $20 million compared to everybody else in the world, right? Like we have a very
strong victim mentality in this country that's kind of taking over. But if you compare us to
anywhere else that you are, there's nobody here that cares enough about you
to stop you from trying to get where you want to go at all.
You're born in some other countries
and literally just someone sees you doing well
and they're going to pull the strings that they need to
have people in power to stop you
from being able to build what you're building.
Or there's no one that has money to buy your product, right?
Like you're in Bolivia right now,
it's going to be very tough to sell supplements because they're all just trying to figure out what are they going to eat today?
You know, you come to America with the way that we have social media set up, like you can, you
can do anything you want if you do it well. You're that guy with 20 million. And so when I hear
people criticize like a Koch brother, well, yeah, you had 20 million. Like that's you. If you're in
America right now, you have that same advantage over everybody else. You touched on the victim mentality.
I want to dive deep into that.
We were touching on a little bit with, you know, and again, I don't want to paint with
a broad stroke the liberal West Coast where I was born and raised, and I'm in a liberal
town now.
And I would say I'm somewhere in the middle,
maybe leaning left on certain things,
leaning right on certain things.
But like this concept of the victim mentality
and where you have social justice warriors coming out
and everyone's posturing.
There's a term that Jordan Peterson uses a lot.
I'm trying to remember it.
But God, what is it?
It's like, it's not gesturing.
It's a fuck.
It's on the tip of my tongue.
I'll see if it comes to me.
But point being, it becomes this pissing contest of who's had it worse.
Yep.
And what is the latest thing?
And, you know, I mean, I remember the first, some of the first spiritual books I read with
Dr. Wayne Dyer talking about
how if you've been, even Eckhart Tolle talks about this, if you've been injured or the person
who needed to be taken care of, you will hold on to your sickness or your illness to remain the
person who needs to be taken care of. And this is not to say that anyone who has a disability or has
a disease is remaining that way on purpose. But it is to say that that
is a possibility and that quite a few people do that because they get accustomed to being the one
who's being taken care of, the one who's being looked after, the one who draws the attention
from everyone around them. And on a lesser scale, people do this all the time. We see it with the
Me Too movement. We see it with shit that happens to you in the workplace.
We see it in awe.
And it's not to say that things don't happen
and that Weinstein isn't groping people
or doing stupid shit.
Like for sure, this is happening.
And it doesn't need to be.
I'm not trying to downplay that.
But I'm talking about is the mentality
that I was wronged and I will find ways
to portray that to people that allow
them to look at me differently and hopefully think of me in that way. Like, oh no, you poor thing.
How can I help? Talk about that. What's going on here? And you're in the Bay Area still. So
you got a lot of sticky stuff with politics there too. Well, I think it's hard first off,
if you grew up in that culture, you're around it a lot, just what us mentioning this will feel offensive just right off the bat. And you really got to
fight through that initial emotion of this is offensive to me or I don't like it to understand
the perspective the other person has. I'm totally willing to hear the people who would make the
argument that they're a victim. I'm not just going to shut down and not hear it at all.
But the reason that we are that way is because it works, right? When you're a victim of
a crime and the suspect is convicted of it, they have to pay reparations, right? They often say,
or restitution, you owe this much money to this person because of what you did.
So we just inherently understand that being a victim comes with a paycheck in a lot of ways.
And there's nothing wrong with that when it's in a healthy way. When somebody is like beat up or something, having sympathy for them is a normal response. Or if they're
wrongfully fired or something, like you're paying them through sympathy and compassion and stuff
like that. The problem becomes when you recognize that there's a pattern in human behavior that does
that and you start trying to apply it in unhealthy ways. And it's really just that it's bad for you
to get your own needs met that way.
You end up losing confidence in yourself as a person when you're trying to convince everybody
that you were wronged rather than finding the parts of yourself that could overcome that obstacle
with your own skills. And that's what's really sad to me is that that evolution of growth,
which makes you just, you get addicted to that when you're on it and you're always looking at,
how can I get to the next level? These people are missing that because we keep feeding them.
Like where they're a house cat, we just keep bringing them tuna.
Oh, it's so sad that you had this thing happen to you here.
Have this.
Where like learning that you have the power to hunt is a good feeling.
You know, like it's going to make you a better husband,
a better brother, a better friend, a better employer.
You're going to be a happier person.
People are going to gravitate to you when you're constantly looking for how to overcome an obstacle
and you have that confidence. We all know who it is. When you're in the presence of those kind of
people, you are drawn to them. When you're in the presence of a victim, there's a lack of trust.
And I'm definitely not, I don't respect that person nearly as much. I obviously experience
this a lot with law enforcement because they become the target of people that claim that they're victims. I don't think you can really love
somebody and at the same time encourage their victim mentality, right? Like if I was overweight
and I was constantly saying, well, it's not my fault because there's fast food places everywhere
and life's busy and my boss doesn't let me cook at the job, so I have to eat fast food. You could sympathize with me, but that would be meaning you
don't really care about me or respect me at all. If you were my real friend, you'd be like, yeah,
that's horseshit, right? There's ways you can overcome this and they're not that complicated.
There's food prep. There's all kinds of stuff. That's what you would actually say if you did
love me. And I think that's what bothers me the most about the victim mentality is that when it's tolerated by others,
what they're saying is,
I don't have a lot of respect for you
and I don't really think you're capable of much.
So I'm just gonna bring in your tuna
like a pathetic house cat that you are, right?
It's actually very demeaning when we encourage it,
but it's so just widespread.
It's not even questioned anymore, right?
And like you mentioned,
it creates a battle of who's the bigger victim, who can shout
louder than the next person about where they are.
And that only hurts the people that think that way.
Yeah, this reminds me of my buddy, Levent Niazi, who also grew up with Blake Edwards
out in NorCal, like long time, known these guys since I was 12 years old.
And Blake, of course, worked for you.
Levent, one of his favorite guilty pleasures is watching my 600-pound life.
And so I put it on. I used to work at a strip club as a bouncer bartender. So I threw it on
the TV screens to get people out one night when I was closing the bar. And I'm watching my 600-pound
life for the first time. And it was crazy how in any situation, the person who was... They were
obese at 400 pounds. At 500, morbidly obese at 600 they're holding
on by threads right they always had an enabler it could have been a daughter with a dad who was like
well my little girl just she's just got a big appetite and he's baking you know 24 fucking
pillsbury rolls and he's got sausage and gravy to go with it because when you get to 600 pounds
you can't even go get your own food you can can't. Somebody has to be enabling. Somebody's enabling
it, right? And you think about that with victims, whoever is the person that feeds the house cat,
they're enabling that to go on because they're not saying, I believe in you and you can change
this and you can shift your mind. You're better than this. They're saying, oh, I'm sorry that
happened to you and I'm sorry you can't change from it. Right. There's something I've said before
on this podcast that there's, there's, there's no doubt there are fucking victims in the world.
There is no doubt. And then my wife was just on the podcast. She talked about a lot of heavy
shit that happened in her childhood from her first, from her biological dad committing suicide
when she was one to having a leader in the church who was
her stepdad molester for years, right? Like hard shit. You stop being a victim the moment the act
is done. The moment it's over with, you're hit by a drunk driver while you're driving. You may have
two years of recovery to get back to be able to walk. But the second that accident's over, you're no longer
a victim, right? If you take that mindset going forward, you can do anything because like you said,
what's the one thing? It reminds me of Lou Holtz in this kind of rah-rah book that he wrote. He's
the old football coach from Notre Dame football. He has an acronym for WIN. And WIN stands for
what's important now. That's the only thing
you need to fucking think about. If what's important now is teaching my fucking toes how
to work and my feet how to work so I can walk again, that's what's the most important thing.
It's not living in the past. We just had Corey Allen on this morning who wrote Now Is The Way.
He's an amazing guy. His podcast is called The Astral Hust astral hustle great guy but i think in any of
these things whether they come from a spiritual tradition or just a a brass tacks get shit done
mentality it always starts with being present it has to because if you dwell on the past good or
bad you know if you're if you're a guy who relives the glory days constantly and thinks that his best
days are over with that's bad if you're somebody who relives the past of your victim mentality,
that's bad. You have to find a way to shift into the present moment.
All right, Joel, we just heard me talking a little bit about presence. Obviously,
that's nothing new to my listeners or to the listeners of the Aubrey Marcus podcast or anybody
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Well, I think there's a difference between being a victim just objectively and having a victim mentality. And that's what you're pointing out is, yeah, you got hit by a drunk driver. That was not
fair to you. You are technically a victim, right? And there should be an amount of sympathy and
support that comes with that, you getting on your feet. But if you adopt a victim mentality,
why rehab? Why try to walk again, right?
No, the world now owes me.
Throw in the towel.
There you go.
Throw in the towel, bring me what I need.
And don't question that I'm doing this
because I'm a victim.
And how do you criticize the victim?
And it becomes like a drug that is very addictive,
that it's easier than having to learn to walk again
to give yourself the excuse that you don't have to.
But in making that decision, you are also saying,
I am weak, I am powerless, I am not confident. I am not capable of very much. And you need to
have a lower standard for me. And I think that's what drives me nuts because the people that we
love, we increase what we expect from them, right? The coach expects more out of the most talented
player. The good parent expects more out of their kids. When you love somebody, you want to see them hit their potential and you're pushing them.
And being a victim literally makes it impossible to hit your potential.
You're not even trying to hit it.
You're trying to bring everyone else down so that you don't have to raise yourself up.
And if you're someone who's just not happy in life, like maybe related to not having
confidence, your mindset, I can almost guarantee you, is centered around ways that you're a
victim, whether those are subconscious thoughts or not,
and a belief that you cannot change where you are.
And when you find people that have changed where they are,
it's usually not anything incredibly,
they're not all rocket scientists that do it.
I'm sure you hear stories all the time of people
that, like you said, came from nothing.
In a lot of ways, coming from nothing
is an advantage over other people.
Because like I described, that frustration that I had from my career not working out
is literally the fuel that propelled me to have success in other things.
When I look at other realtors that aren't doing as good as me,
even though they maybe have a skill set better, I mean, I'm a cop.
I'm not really the best of people.
I don't love to go to happy hour and socialize.
But I'm selling more than all of them because I'm driven more.
That's a blessing that came from being frustrated and
being a victim of what happened when I was playing basketball in high school. And everyone's got
something that they can pull on where it said, this wasn't fair to me. Well, the successful
people take that and say, I'm going to let that drive me to work twice as hard as the next guy.
And the unsuccessful people take that and say, well, that's my excuse why I don't have to work
hard at all. Yeah, that resonates highly with me. You know, the person who starts with nothing
potentially has the greater advantage.
And I used to recognize that in football.
And my football career ended very similar
to your basketball career.
I sat the bench my last two years at ASU,
really wanted to play, felt like I could play.
And, you know, not even start, the starters were great,
but just have playing time.
And I really just sat the bench.
I was a fucking glorified cheerleader.
I was a swole cheerleader.
But thinking about that, you know, there's...
Oh, shit.
Just lost my train of thought.
Well, how much did that propel you into your MMA career?
Yeah, so that's what I was getting at.
The guys...
Thank you for drawing me back there.
The guys who went on to play pro,
the ones that played a year and got bounced were the most talented players in college they were the best of the best they would always pull up with a hamstring pull in when we were running
sprints at the end of practice in two days they'd be like oh my hamstring and they wouldn't push
themselves because they were the most fucking gifted and that's not to say that the most gifted
people are quitters and they don't go for it. But it's easier to be one. It is because you're that
talented. And then you see the best guys in the, I mean, a lot of the guys that I played with who
lasted a long time in the NFL, they were the guys who they were good and they were gifted, but they
weren't the most gifted. And they had to bust their ass just like Jerry Rice. Right. And you look at the best players in the NFL. They have it all. They have the gifts and the work ethic. And they had to bust their ass, just like Jerry Rice, right? And you look at the
best players in the NFL, they have it all. They have the gifts and the work ethic. And there's
no doubt about that. So there are examples of that. It's not to say that everyone who has gifts
doesn't do shit with their life. There are plenty of people who do. Look at LeBron James.
But that to me definitely is something that strikes a chord because we oftentimes don't think
about what our gifts are, you know, and that's something that Aubrey has talked about and
Anahata, who is a great teacher, she's coming back on the podcast.
You know, she has this conscious relationships workshop where you think about who your greatest
teacher was.
And oftentimes it's not somebody you met in school or had as a mentor.
It's oftentimes it's a parent you met in school or had as a mentor. It's oftentimes it's a parent
or an older sibling. And more likely than not, they will teach you just as much or possibly
more things that you did not want to do in life than you do want to do in life. And it's not to
say that everyone has it rough growing up, but the point is that your greatest teacher is not
just the person who taught you all the good shit. It's the person who taught you the most, period.
And oftentimes, the things that they teach you not to do, those are the gifts.
That's amazing.
Yeah, and you miss that entire thing if you're wallowing in your own self-pity over being a victim.
You won't see how the things that you are using for victimhood were the gifts that were given to you.
But don't be this way.
Work harder than the next guy because things are extra hard for you, right? If you spend your whole life with the
world against you, just theoretically speaking, imagine the muscle you got to build to be able
to do that. And then when you get your opportunity, you're going to be in 10 times the shape of the
guy who's a super talented one that had it easy. If you spend your whole time saying, well, I'm not
as talented as him, so why try, right? You're just, you're never going to go anywhere. There's like, you gave a perfect example. The Jerry Rice's that
had to work twice as hard as everyone else to keep up with them, built up a muscle that when
they got into the NFL and maybe then like they, you know, they hit their athletic peak and they
have that work ethic. Those were the rock stars. Those are the superstars. And I'm sure in MMA
is very, very similar for what you saw. The best fighter
was not always the most talented one. He had the strongest mindset. And I think what I love about
non-sports, because I've been a huge sports fan my whole life, but there are physical limitations to
what you're doing. Jon Jones is going to have an advantage over other guys because he's a physical
specimen. But you get in the world of business or real estate investing or being a real estate
agent, your athletic ability in that world is your mindset. And there's nothing that stops you from having the best mindset other than
your own self. There is no limitation that is put on you other than what you believe your limit
could be. And that's why I feel like I'm doing so well is there was this frustration that was built
from a physical limitation that I had I just couldn't overcome. But again, in this world,
there's nothing to stop me. As much as you want, there's opportunity everywhere. If you want to be the best at what
you do, there's going to be a ton of people that are drawn to you, especially because most people
in the world aren't really doing shit. If we're honest, they're not trying very hard at anything.
Most people are doing the bare minimum just to not get fired. And that's it. And if you're the
guy who has a job you don't love, but you come give an extra 20% over everyone else, you stand
out right away. Very few circumstances are like professional sports where everyone's given everything they got
to make that team, right? That's a very difficult environment to succeed in. Your average nine to
five job, man, guys, they're coming in and they're like loafing it every day. And if you go in there
and bust your butt, there's some manager who'd be like your coach who's going to see that and want
to give you opportunity. Being a victim, you're never going to think that way. Victims think like,
well, when they pay me more, then I'll try harder. Yeah. Yeah. Because everything's owed to them.
Yep. Well, I do remember what I wanted to bring up. It's a term called virtue signaling.
Yeah. He does talk about that a lot. Yeah. And it's funny because, you know, when you hear it, you're like, oh yeah.
It's rare that I meet somebody who will virtue signal in person. And maybe that's because of
the people that I hang around with, but I see it all the fucking time online, right? Where
somebody will stand out, you know, the victim writes, you know, uh, this happened to me and, uh, woe is me on the
fucking, you know, 10,000 word Facebook post. And the guy comes back to say, I can't believe that
happened to you. That should never happen to women. Oh, so, so, so bad. And I'm going to signal
this virtue of women's rights or, or, you know, my courage or my empathy towards you.
And, you know, and it's just that too becomes the pissing contest of who's more virtuous.
And what motivates that person, in your opinion, that's going to say, oh, I'm so sorry for you?
Well, I mean, Rogan talks about this, like the guy who comes to bat for the woman online
and says, yeah, all men are pigs, these chauvinist assholes.
That's the dude who's using that as an angle to get laid.
That's exactly.
That's it.
That's his fucking angle.
Whether he understands it consciously or not, on a subconscious level, he's making that move to try to get in with that woman.
He's telling her what she wants to hear.
Yep.
Right?
And that's one of the biggest things to be aware of in the world completely is people
that tell you what you want to hear.
I mean, if you had a coach that told you, oh, you're going to kill this guy.
You don't even need to train, dude.
You're so much better than him.
Is he putting you in a position to succeed at all?
It's actually like he's literally harming you by saying that.
There's been fights where guys are losing each round and you can hear the coaches in
between rounds.
It's like, oh, for sure you won that round and it's like wait a minute you can encourage him
all you want but don't tell me one around that he didn't when you clearly lost the round like you
can't say that see if i heard that i would think that coach is not secure in his position as that
guy's trainer and he's trying to be likable to overcome the fact maybe he's not a great trainer
right that's why he's relying on telling someone
what they want to hear as opposed to, I'm just the best effing coach that there is, and that's
why you're going to train with me. It's the same with the people that are encouraging. Now, there
are cases, obviously, like we said, I don't want to sound like every woman that says she was a
victim of something wasn't, okay? But the ones that are purposely looking for sympathy when that
is not going to help them in that situation, right? You don't need to tell the whole world
what happened on Facebook. You're obviously looking for sympathy. And what will
happen is the guy will come in and do exactly what you said. And then the girl will complain,
well, all guys only want one thing when he gets close enough to make his shot, right?
And she creates this self-fulfilling prophecy of all guys are pigs. Now she can complain about
that guy that started with his virtue signaling to try to shoot his shot. He's another example
of how all men are pigs. And then she can post about that.
The next guy will come in and say it.
And their whole world just becomes
this like confirmation bias of why they're a victim.
You can't get out of that cycle.
And I think it's not just women.
This is happening with everyone.
When you get into that mindset,
it becomes this disease that is so hard to break out of it.
I love Jocko Willink's book, Extreme Ownership.
I mean, I wanna have Jocko on our podcast., Extreme Ownership. I mean, I want to have
Jocko on our podcast. I'd love to be on his. That to me is the medicine that society needs
to break out of this. When you look to ways to be a victim, I promise you, you will find them.
There's ways things are not fair for you. People look at you and say, he's in a privileged position.
I guarantee you could show things that are the world stacked against you. And it's not as easy
for you. If you're looking for that, you're absolutely going to find it.
And I love that you had the courage to bring up when the guys come in and they tell you
what they're saying.
That's not your friend.
That's not someone who loves you, who wants what's best for you.
That's someone who wants to take advantage of you.
And he's learned that he can go in through this back door where you won't recognize that
he's actually trying to prey on you.
It's big time.
It's happening all over the internet.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Obviously, you're old enough to have seen the whole thing shift
to where it is now from not having internet,
not having cell phones, all that.
And obviously, there's pros and cons to all this stuff.
But I guess what I want to know is,
you had a very disciplined mind.
And having the fire lit with what happened in basketball and wanting to do something and wanting to funnel that energy towards something allowed you to grow into what you do now. For people who are stuck in a rut, whether that is through physical injury or mental injury,
you could call it, from having a mentality, that's something that we're talking about here.
What are the steps to find that fire inside and start to be of service to yourself and of service
to others? That's a really good question. Before basketball, I know that that
fire was being built because I had a really rough relationship with my dad. He was just a guy you
couldn't ever make happy. He was a very hard man, didn't show much affection. If he was ever proud
of me, I never knew it. And I knew as a kid, that was like all that mattered to me. When my dad
passed away, I kind of lost the will to live because I felt like it's too late. Like I missed
my chance to make him proud and it's too late now, you know?
So that was, it was a difficult time.
But what was happening during that was that desire, that approval that I was looking for
was building up inside me.
And that could have either been the anchor that pulled me down or it could have been
the fuel that shot me forward, depending on how I responded to it.
What was lacking, depending on what direction I
took, was confidence. So I had enough confidence built from the sports that I'd played and success
that I'd had, and I got decent grades, to not completely quit and maybe go like the emo path
where I got into constantly complaining about everything and listening to Smashing Pumpkins
and doing heroin, but not enough that I could just go take life by the
balls and do whatever I wanted. It was very in the middle. And what happened is I had to make a
decision that I'm not happy where I'm at, but you got to believe you could be. And it was very,
very simple. I was a super skinny dude. I hated, hated, hated how skinny I was. And I started
lifting weights. It took me about five years of lifting weights to build up any kind of a base. But I saw if you just keep doing it, you will get better at it, right? Like
your body has to respond to that tension that you're putting underneath it. And you won't respond
the same way as everybody else, but it will improve. And I recognize that was very similar
to my basketball career. I got better because I just kept working at this thing. And I basically
built my confidence and my ability to
slowly build something as opposed to it needs to happen right away. So for those people like you
asked that are trying to figure out how do I get out of the spot I'm in, you need to focus on
crushing it at what you're doing. And I don't care if it's something that you think is stupid.
If you work at 7-Eleven and you run the register, be engaged in what you do. Look for ways to improve the sales of the company.
Interact with the people that come in.
Try to sell them on something else.
Learn how the guy who owns that place takes stock
and what his worst job is and start doing that for him.
And what'll happen is you may never make
any more money doing that.
He may be a cheapskate, but you will develop a skill
that will allow you to go manage somebody else's 7-Eleven.
And then you'll save up enough money that you can buy your own 7-Eleven. And then you can
systemize what you did and look for the next you. And that's an example of the guy that works at
the 7-Eleven. If you wait for life to hand you what you're looking for before you give your best,
you're going to be waiting forever. Everybody can start lifting that weight or building that
muscle with where they are at. And it really doesn't matter. You could be the towel guy at a gym that wipes the sweat off the floor, but you're hanging around
really, really talented coaches and you're learning what they say. And you could develop
from being around those people into a very good coach yourself, which you could then figure out
a way to turn into a business where you give online training manuals or however that works.
If you have a helpless mentality, it's never going to happen.
But really, in America, there's no one holding you back. You got to start with something small,
find success there, and then look for the next domino to knock over. Where could I apply what
I did right here and have the same result with something that's a little bit bigger?
And then what doors does that open for me? And how do I go through that next door?
And I really believe that there's very few people in at least this country that can't do that.
A severe mental handicap, something like that,
those people have limitations.
But able-bodied people like those kids
you were talking about,
the standing outside of Voodoo Donuts, right?
There's nothing that would stop those guys
from owning a Voodoo Donuts if they took that journey.
And you have to start with recognizing
if you're not taking the step, where does it come from?
I knew it was my relationship with my dad.
There's a book I read called Wild at Heart by John Eldredge,
really good book that talks about, you know,
like the heart of a man
and how you can really only learn masculinity
from another man.
It's not something that just is inherently inside of you.
It has to be passed on from man to man.
And recognizing, well, I need some mentors,
who I want my mentor to be,
and looking around and seeing
who are the people I really look up to and respect.
And now, I mean, you can listen to you on YouTube and you can see like, that's a
mentor. They don't have to ever meet you to understand how you think and how you do stuff.
And then starting with where you're at. That's the other thing is don't wait for your big break to
try. If you're not crushing it now, when you get the opportunity, you're not going to be in shape
to do it, right? Like you're training all all off season you're not waiting until the season starts and trying to start then because you're behind damn that was gold
thank you brother um shit
what's something that you found that just frustrates the crap out of you
about people that are around you where you see they have more potential than what they're acting on
well i mean i think i think generally it is it does go back into the funnel that all these things
entail and in even the social justice warrior the person that virtue signals um they too are trying
to portray themselves as something they are not they too are trying to show the world a picture of what they think the world wants to
see them as, right? As opposed to starting to really find out who they are, what makes them
tick, doing the work. And what I mean by that is having tools like meditation, breath work,
anything that can shift them from their normal state of being, including psychedelics and float
tanks, to be able to drop in and sort
their own shit. So they can see and no longer operate on autopilot, but to come to a place
of stillness where they can see like, this is why I feel anxious. This is why I get nervous around
women. This is why I talk down about myself when I interview for a big job, right? If you can get
still enough, you can begin to allow these things to
come up to the surface. And as they do so you can figure out what's going on inside. And I think
when I see people that are stuck, if they're, if they're just stuck for the time being, but I see
in them a greater potential than they have, I'm usually not bothered by that because I can
understand that everyone walks their own path. Everyone has the opportunity to learn their lessons at their own pace, right? And it takes like anything,
even in fucking fitness. And I used to train people when I fought in the UFC,
the people who got the best results wanted it for themselves. The people who didn't get results
were told to lose weight from their doctor or their spouse, right? And it was like, oh,
I got to lose this weight because my wife wants me to lose a few. Or the doctor says, if I don't lose 20 pounds,
I'll die in a year. Whatever the case is, you have to want it for yourself. And if you do,
those are the people that will ask questions. Those are the people that will say,
hey, how can you help me in this area? And they're usually the people that will want to
learn for themselves. And I think
that is the differentiator between if you're really going to do the work or not. I always
tell people like, I have a huge library at my house. I never give a book out because if I give
you the book, you're not going to fucking read it and I'll never see it again. Buy the goddamn book.
It costs 15 bucks of your own money. But when you buy it, the odds of you reading that are much higher. Right. So it goes beyond wanting to know the information. Like if I ask you, and I really
want to know about real estate, if I ask you for answers about investing in real estate and how I
go about that, if I truly want to learn, I need to go deeper than that and buy a book. I need to
go deeper than that and read and become a student of the thing that I wish to embody.
It's not enough for me to take your advice
and start fucking flipping houses
and making money on rent, right?
And that goes for anything in life.
I can't say I want to be in shape.
So I'm just going to follow Primal Soldier online
and I'll just do his kettlebell workouts from his Instagram.
Like, no, buy one of his courses, come to Onnit,
fucking take the kettlebell cert. Whatever the case is, there's a way where you can go
dip your feet in the shallow end. And there's a way where you can go head first in the deep end.
And I think when I see in people, the willingness to go into the deep end,
I know they're ready. And when I see people who want to dip their feet in the shallow end,
that's okay. Maybe they'll warm up to it and they want to get in the deep end later,
but I don't let that affect me obviously, because there's enough of that in the world. And if I was affected
by every negative person, I'd be a miserable fuck myself. Do you think that the people that are not
ready to go in the deep end are often just maybe it's insecurity driven? They don't want to ask
those tough questions because they're afraid of what's going to come up and they're not ready to
face it yet. Yeah. And, you know, we do such a good job. We talk psychology. You do such a good
job of hiding from ourselves what's going on. And there's a part of our mind that understands
exactly where the pain is and exactly what it's from. And there's a lot of activities that'll
draw that out. You know, there's a lot of activities that'll push us to our limit. And
those, it's like, like Wayne Dyer used to say, like when you squeeze an orange, what
do you get?
Orange juice.
When you squeeze you, what do you get?
Whatever you are.
Right?
Yeah.
Is there, are you fucking made out of anger on the inside?
Are you made out of suffering and pain?
Are you made out of joy and happiness?
When life puts pressure on you, how do you respond?
And I find that to be a beautiful translation when you think
about all the people that I have in my life now, like how you talk about who you surround yourself
with. I'm surrounded by amazing people. When they get squeezed, I see beauty come out. I see
intelligence. I see innovation. I see new ways of thinking. I see trying. And I see always being a
student, wanting to learn more. Now, maybe if you know subconsciously
what's inside you isn't that great,
you're avoiding the squeeze.
You're avoiding situations in life that will squeeze you
because you don't like what's in there.
You don't want other people to see it.
But that squeeze is the only way you improve your situation.
It's the only way you build your confidence.
You know, you mentioned earlier that when you're still,
things come to the surface.
And I think it's very similar
with when the heat gets turned up. You know, like the way that they purify gold is that they heat up this vat of gold and the impurities
rise to the top. And the hotter it gets, the more fine of impurity will rise. And that's where it
can be scooped up. You cannot make that gold better without turning up the heat. You can't
make the impurity come to the top. And at the top, it would be like your conscious, where you're
aware of where you're getting in your own way, you keep getting in fights why you keep leaving before you get hurt
whatever it is it's sabotaging yourself but you got to be willing for ugly to come out you got
to be willing to see that like i'm i'm not a strong person all the time or i've created this
whole world where i'll never be exposed as being weak in this area and face that demon but when you
do man like it's really usually not nearly as hard as what you're afraid it would be to take that next step and to overcome some of those things.
Talk about talk about your podcast. What's the name of it?
Bigger Pockets.
Bigger Pockets. Yeah. And so you took over that podcast. You said you're a guest on it.
Yeah, I was a guest on it. And it was run by the guy who started the company, Josh Dorkin,
and his first employee, Brandon Turner. Brandon's my best friend. Love that guy.
And Josh stepped down. And so they had different people within the company co-hosting with Brandon,
but they didn't really know real estate investing. And my book had done well. And I grew up that
second book. And I went on the podcast to talk about the Burr book. And then I started doing
other people's podcasts to promote it. And I just basically developed the skill of speaking,
as basic as that sounds. How to articulate a thought and keep someone engaged with what you have to say. And Brandon was able to show them like,
hey, we need to get David as the co-host of this thing. He's really good. The people really like
him. So I was able to jump into this as like the first podcast thing I'd ever had. We get 300,000
downloads a month or something. It's a really, really big real estate podcast. And all we do
is interview people every week and ask them, how do you make money with real estate? Sometimes there's some guy who's got six
houses and he's a school teacher and he says how he finds the deals.
Sometimes it's someone who buys 200 houses a year. They're a big hedge fund manager,
but it's all free information. That's what the website's about is how you can learn how to invest
in real estate for free without going to spend 50 grand on some course that some guy's going to
rip you off type of a deal. That's pretty damn cool. And you talked about one thing that you've learned on your podcast there, and just from doing it more
is the ability to speak. And that's certainly anybody you listen to, even from Rogan to Ferris
to anybody else. So if you've been along for the ride, you've seen their progression. You've seen
them go from how they first started out to where they are now. What are some other takeaways that
you've gotten from hosting the podcast? I've learned how to take what someone else is saying who's maybe not a great speaker
and pull out what they were trying to communicate and maybe lay it out a little more clearly so
other people can understand the point they were making. I've learned how to get really good at
drawing analogies. I probably mentioned the MMA thing like four or five times with you because
I'm sure a lot of your listeners are into that, right? If you were a former fisherman, I'd be using completely different analogies to communicate these points we're trying to make because I think a lot of us, we've got an operating system.
We've got Microsoft Windows that our brain works with.
And if you're feeding in information from some Apple software, you're going to catch 20% of what's being said.
So you really want to learn how to take information, package it in a way that their brain can understand and give it to them that way.
That's another big thing.
And then just kind of how to navigate when you go from, I was a police officer, blue
collar job to I'm an authority that everyone in the country is looking up to, to teach
them real estate.
It's a really big shift and opportunity that opens up for you.
It's me being squeezed, right?
And a lot of the stuff that's coming out is like thoughts like, I don't deserve this. This is only going to last for so long. And this ride's going to end
like that. Opportunities for me to see ways I'm doubting myself, ways my confidence can grow,
where the old patterns are still existing that I didn't recognize because it wasn't that hot,
right? Like the heat was a certain degree. The impurities came up. The gold looked great.
You step into this world, all of a sudden, there's a bunch of junk that comes out of it.
So that's another thing that I've learned.
And I've almost become addicted to that.
How do you take the next step?
Not because you want to be a big shot,
but because you know that when you get into that next,
getting into a ring with someone that wants to knock you out
will force you to see the parts of yourself
that you didn't see when you were sitting at a desk
working through an Excel spreadsheet.
And if you're addicted to that growth, man, the world's your oyster. You could do anything and
it's a beautiful place and you come across beautiful people. When you live as a slave to
fear of what might come out of you, you're just going to live in a constant state of frustration.
And I think Rogan, he mentioned that in a real long diatribe that he had about people that don't
follow their passion. They just take the safe road. You usually don't end up happy, which leads to you looking for that happiness in unhealthy ways, which leads to an
unhealthy life. Really tackling that fear of being okay to see what comes out of you and having the
faith and the belief that you can make it cleaner. It won't stay ugly. Once you see what's in there
and you fix it, it'll be better. This podcast was another step in that direction.
Hell yeah. Dude, it's been amazing having you on. We'll link to your podcast in the show notes as
well as your three books and the other books that you've mentioned. I think I saw Ryan taking notes
back there. So we'll get those all linked up for people to read. Where can people find you online?
Your best bet is Instagram. I'm davidgreen24. I try to answer all the messages that come in
through there. I've got a blog, greenincome.com, where I basically just write articles teaching people
stuff about real estate investing and wealth building. And then I'm DavidGreen24 on whatever
your platform is, LinkedIn, Facebook. And then I also have a profile on BiggerPockets. So
if you're at all interested in real estate investing, it's a free website. Everything is
free, basically. There's all the information you
could want. You can message me on there and I can help put you in touch with maybe a local group of
investors that get together and meet. And I would just encourage everybody who's listening to this,
if you like the conversation about mindset, don't let that be something that passes your mind
and you think, oh, that was cool and let it go, right? Immediately start looking for other people
that are in Kyle's world and trying to figure out
what are the similarities in what was said
and how can I keep?
You want to get those hooks in really deep
to where you get addicted to where you recognize
I'm the only one who's holding me back.
And if I want to overcome this, where am I being a victim?
Where am I allowing myself to play small
because I'm afraid, right?
Where am I avoiding the relationship
that'll help me go to the next level because I'm afraid of them seeing what gets
squeezed? And you'll find that, man, like I've never met a human being who took this road and
says, I regret it. I wish no one would have saw what was really in there. Like every person's,
I wish I would have done it sooner. So I think it's an awesome thing you're doing here.
Awesome, brother. It's been a pleasure having you on.
Thanks, man.
Thanks for listening to the podcast, guys. Remember,
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