Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #122 Jamie Kilstein

Episode Date: November 4, 2019

Jaime Kilstein is an American writer, radio host, podcast host, and stand-up comic. We get into his background, jiu-jitsu, relationships, psychedelics, and the political climate.   Connect with Jamie:  Website | http://jamiekilstein.com/ Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/jamiekilsteinfanpage/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/thejamiekilstein/?hl=sv Twitter | https://twitter.com/jamiekilstein YouTube | http://bit.ly/2mo6sWu   Listen to the Jamie Kilstein Podcast | https://apple.co/2mu9dFz   Show Notes|  Retroactive Jealousy | http://bit.ly/2mVEdyJ Aubrey Marcus The Fifth Sacred Thing | http://bit.ly/2mlui5b Jamie Kilstein on the Burt Kreischer podcast | http://bit.ly/2lo7DFe Way of the Warrior Kid by Jocko Willink | https://amzn.to/2kV43Cm Divine Masculine and Feminine Chart | https://bit.ly/2NekUeL   Show Sponsors| Skillshare https://skl.sh/2B2ewjO skillshare.com/Kingsbury (To start 2 months of Skillshare classes for Free)    Caldera Lab https://calderalab.com/kyle Use codeword Kyle at checkout for 20% off your first purchase of (The Good)   Waayb CBD www.waayb.com (Get 10% off using code word Kyle at checkout)   Onnit - Shroom Tech Sport Get 10% off all foods and supplements at Onnit by going to  https://www.onnit.com/kyle/   Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk Get 10% off at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/podcast/   Subscribe to Kyle Kingsbury Podcast iTunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY

What's up, fam? Jamie Kilstein is on the show today. He is a comedian, an American comedian. He's also a high-level jiu-jitsu practitioner and somebody that I've been trying to connect with and get on the show for close to a year now. We've been going back and forth on Instagram. I think he was out in LA, but recently moved up to Tucson, Arizona. And I was out in Arizona. I decided to stay a few days in Phoenix before the Fit for Service event in Sedona. And he drove up to Phoenix and we recorded this awesome podcast. I also jumped on his show, which we'll link to in the show notes. And you can hear all the cool conversations we had around everything, really.

We talked relationship. We talked psychedelics. We talked jujitsu. We talked about some of his past, you know, politics, really. You know, he was kind of a hard, far left guy who, you know, really, really just learned, you know, learned a different way. He's a bit more centrist now.

And, you know, he talks quite a bit about that. And it's a fantastic episode. I know you guys are going to dig this one. Jamie's a hell of a guy and I'll have him back on the show. There's a few ways you can support this podcast. Remember to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Leave us a five-star rating anywhere you can leave a rating. Obviously, iTunes is the big one, but if Stitcher, SoundCloud, or any of these other places have the ability to leave a rating, please do so.

And just put it in there. One or two ways the show has helped you in life. Outside of that, we've got some sponsors on every show that really helped make this show possible. So check them out. One of which is a product by Caldera called The Good. And this thing really is, it's good. It's to be perfectly honest, it's a product I don't think I would have used had I not tried it first. Obviously they sent me a fucking free bottle. But it's just incredible.

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by helping your body create more ATP in these little powerhouses called the mitochondria through cordyceps sinensis and a mega dose of methylated B12. You can go to on it.com slash Kyle for 10% off your bottle of shroom tech sport. Thank you guys for tuning into the show today with my man, Jamie Kilstein. Let us know what you think on the gram and enjoy the show. All right. We, we'd fucking just jumped right in and we missed a nice little chunk there. So we're, we're talking about, uh, you just moved out here to, I'm in Phoenix, Arizona on the road for

the podcast. Let me frame this. And you're living in Tucson now. Yeah. And I've only lived in New York and LA. And I thought that was just how normal people were. And then I moved to Tucson and I was like, oh, everyone's nice and has a gun is far different than like what I've grown up in. And there was part of me when I first moved here, it was because I was depressed and L.A. was just L.A. And part of me thought I was going to quit comedy and just focus on the podcast. And I don't know. I mean, part of me was even like, maybe I'll just fucking teach jujitsu and just stop everything. And then I got out here and being away from the places where you think you have to be, uh, funny, or you think you have to be hustling in a, it's made me love comedy

more. It's made me, it's the most I've ever written. I think it's the best stuff I've ever written. Um, and I'm doing standup more and I'm doing it not because, oh, I want to go up to the comedy store, maybe Judd Apatow there. And then he'll cast me as the funny friend. I mean, not that I ever really did that, but I'm going up just because I was like, oh yeah, comedy is a thing I love to do. Um, and when you're doing something just for the love of it, you just fucking do it better. And now I have to pull myself back though, because now that I'm doing it better,

I'm really excited and I have to catch myself that I don't go back into that like business hustle carny mode where I start, you know, caring more about what I'm going to get. And I have to, I have to maintain this sort of like, I am doing comedy because I like comedy. I mean, I assume it's like doing jujitsu when you don't, when you're not getting ready for a fight, you're like, oh yeah, this shit's fun. You're not like hitting the mat every time you tap, like, damn it. It's just like, you're jumping around and

like fucking around with stuff, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was just thinking of fighting when you're talking about that. There were times in my career where, uh, when I got to the UFC, like when I was first in it, I lost my way into the UFC and then just, and it was like, fuck it. I can only go up from here. And so I just wanted to learn and I had time to learn and I was training with some of the best guys and I really just focused on it like that. The second I had a win streak and a couple of fight of the nights, there was all this fucking pressure to climb the ladder. And I was focused on the next thing. And after I beat him, then I take on him and all this shit.

And it was so far out in front of me. I'm so glad you brought that up. Cause I've been thinking about this a ton. Cause like, you're a really introspective guy. I don't know if you were as much back then, but you definitely are. And I would like to think I'm an introspective guy. And, you know, I had, I kind of call it like the, the year I was almost famous where like my dad was just moving and he found this interview magazine where it was like the four comics to watch. And it was just like me, Aubrey Plaza, and everyone from like SNL, just like fucking so famous. And I was looking at it and I'm like, oh, I'm that guy. Like when you see those weird top 10 lists and you're like,

who the fuck's that? Or like what happened? What tragic story befell him? It's me. That's there was me in that list. And, and I was looking at it and I did everything that I made fun of, um, where I was, you know, not yelling, like I've never been like mean, but I was just like writing managers and agents in a panic. Like, why aren't we getting this? Like, this guy has a special, why isn't, you know, the guy who discovered me discovered me and Kumail at the same time. And there was like a brief period where like, I was getting the things he wasn't. And then I just became a maniac. And it was strictly because of fear. It was, I've worked so hard to get here.

I dropped out of high school to do comedy. I lived out of my car. And then I finally got it. And probably very similarly, you just don't want to lose it. It's like being like an overbearing boyfriend, right? You're like, I'm just going to hold on, hold on, hold on. And what you're doing is like pushing them away. I did that with the entire art of standup comedy, essentially.

Yeah. It's funny you mentioned that. Cause you know, at the, in the beginning of, uh, well not in the very beginning, but you know, my wife and I are open now. Yeah. And I mean, I would say polyamorous, more polyamorous than swingers. Like we're not just out trying to get laid. We're, we're in it for, I know for and i think when people hear that they think it's like still like the key party days yeah it's not a it's not a free-for-all and not that we're opposed to that not by any means i don't look down on people for doing that like if you're seeking pleasure that's fucking there's nothing wrong with that but we're looking for like meaningful relationships in addition to ours yeah while still working on ours and dealing with all the shit that comes up from that yeah but the second she got a boyfriend i was so clingy like oh don't leave me please don't go and like that very act

and i could witness it like how much it was pushing her away but it was it was just blew my mind i think it was um i don't know what great substance i took but but something, it might've been LSD in the park, but it just fucking open. It was like, Oh, I'm doing the thing that is gross. That's pushing her away. And she's been telling me it and it's not clicking because I'm so, you know, when you're in a fear mode, it's like in a fight, you get fucking tunnel vision. You can't see anything else. You can't hear anyone else. Your ears go blank. Your head goes blank. And you just stare down the tunnel. And that's what I was doing in like pure panic. And of course, people are like, well, yeah, bro, that's why you don't do fucking open relationship and let your wife get banged by someone else. Right. Blah, blah. And it's like, okay, yeah, there's fair arguments to all that. But

for me, it was incredibly empowering to witness that because, you know, so often with advice from others, you don't, you don't fucking take it. You have to know it for yourself first. Yeah. And I think that what was cool is, I mean, if you're, if you're searching for answers and you get still, you'll find the answers. Yeah. So in that, I had the space to see it. So I have two things. One is a question, but one, actually three things, because I think also LSD in the park is a great novel name that I was just like, it just sounds like a kid's book. But I, the, the, the two things that that made me think of are one, a lot of times the people giving you those advice or who are projecting the loudest are also very scared because it's something that either they fear or that they secretly want,

or that they just don't think they could ever have. So a really good example is before my girlfriend and I moved out here, I was doing what I do, which is like being the artist guy. And she was in a corporate nine to five that she hated, had zero passion for it, was still somehow making shit money, like sold out, but still living with two roommates, right? She, everyone at her work would just like drink every night or drink in the office to making shit money, like sold out, but still living with two roommates. Right. Um, she, everyone at her work would just like drink every night or drink in the office to kind of like get by and give their, their, their, their, their life sort of, uh, faux meaningfulness. And they were miserable and she was miserable. And we start meeting or we start hanging out. And I realized

that she's like really creative. She's really funny, but she's not funny around other people. She's just kind of funny around me where she can be like weird. She wears like Harry Potter shorts to bed, even though, you know, she talks like a business person in the office where every once in a while it'll slip out, like we'll be in the supermarket and she'll be like working for the weekend. And I'm like, what the fuck did you just say? Like, it just doesn't sound like her. It sounds like this programming.

Right. And I'm like, what the fuck did you just say? Like, it just doesn't sound like her. It sounds like this programming, right? And so I did what I always do, where I was like the manic pixie boy, where I'm like, we gotta get out of here and live as artists. And she's like, what? And she was like, fuck it. I'm sick of this. Like, I'm miserable.

Like, yeah, 100%, let's do it. And I was like, just work on the podcast. Like, teach yourself how to edit videos, which she did did like immediately. And everyone at that job, everybody, except for the people she was like the closest with who were people who had good, cool lives. They either had good relationships or they were artists or whatever, just tried to fucking sucker back in. Here's why you can't do it. Here's why you can't do it. And they were really shitty about it. And she realized that like a lot of her friends were just kind of

people who wanted to be surrounded by other people in quicksand. You know what I mean? It's the crabs in a bucket thing where they just keep trying to pull each other down. And so I think a lot of times when you get the loudest objections, you sort of also want to be like, what are you afraid of, bro? Like what's going on here? People in general don't want to see change, whether that's family or close friends, because then it's like, well, what does that reflect upon me? Like, you don't want to drink alcohol anymore. What's what the fuck? Why not? Like, what's wrong with me drinking? You're not going to drink with me. Drinking is the perfect example. Or even food. Like you're going to fucking eat clean when i was training people and fighting as a side job because i had several just to pay

the bills yeah ufc i'm training people and it blew my mind how many people had a significant other like a partner a wife a husband who didn't want to change the way they they ate and so they would fucking just constantly throw it out there like i, I don't like you eating like this. I'm going to still make mac and cheese and fucking serve it to everybody in the family. And then it's going to make it that much harder for that person. If you don't have both people on board, it's a motherfucker. That was the hardest thing for me and my girlfriend because she had like hot girl metabolism where she's like younger than me. And like I hadn't eaten fast food in like 10 years.

And we meet and she's like, let's go to Sonic. And I'm like, okay. And like, Sonic is the worst. Dude is the worst. And afterwards I'm like, you're still hot. I put on like, I put on like 15 pounds since we met and we finally pulled it in. But I had to have like a serious conversation with her where I was like, I don't feel well. Like this isn't okay. Like I can't do what you're doing. How much older are you than her? I am. So I'm 37. She's 29. Oh yeah. That's a good, that's a good difference there. Yeah. Um, but she, it's all habits, man. Like one, whenever she eats better, she's like, I feel better. And she started doing yoga. And then when we go to treat ourself, it's like, you shouldn't go to treat yourself. And then like, I'm like walking around, like holding my stomach.

Like we feel fucking awful. Um, but it's these habits you get from when you're younger, where it's like, I am sad. Therefore I eat shitty or like, I am, uh, happy. Therefore I celebrate by eating shitty. And it always ends with eating shitty. And like food addiction is a fucking bitch and it's real. And I think lots of guys have some form of eating disorders, but they don't talk about it because they're guys and that's girl shit. Um, but dude, I've like binge ate so much. I've, I mean,

a hundred percent have struggled with eating disorders. Like there's no other word for it. Um, it's really fucking hard. And it's also hard because with any other bad habit, you can like heroin, you should probably quit cold Turkey, right? With food, you still have to eat three times a day. You're not going to have to do like a little heroin each day to get by. You're not going to go to fucking bear's birthday party and they're handing out little like crack cakes, but like they'll have cupcakes, they'll have whatever. And that shit's hard. It's everywhere. Billboards whenever I'm eating healthy. I thought I like wasn't susceptible to advertising, but like I'm on the road, I'm driving to L.A. today and like I will keep seeing billboards for McDonald's at every exit

and it will be tempting, even though I know it'll make me feel horrible. We were at, Ryan and I were at the psychiatry office yesterday here in town, I think down in Chandler by the Chandler Mall. Yeah. And the guy's fantastic. So Dr. Patino, he's been doing psychiatry for 30 years. He's into all new treatments like ketamine and TMS and a lot of cool shit.

And just a fantastic guy. We ran through the gauntlet of brain tests and it turns out I'm a genius, but that's a different episode. Congrats. So that's good news. But, you know. Genius episode with a fucking standup comedian.

In the lobby, they got Food Network on and I've been mostly carnivore. I'm going to interview Dr. Paul Saladino. Oh, cool. Coming up here and I'm doing really well on it. When I went straight carnivore, I started getting rashes and shit like that. So now'll still eat you know a salad or two a week and yeah and um if i have fucking onions on my burger big i don't i don't fret like it's not i don't think

i'm gonna die from it i know they're good for me and i and i do fine with that but i do much better eating higher higher quality and more amounts of good meat sure and so i've been feeling great doing that. And then I'm watching this show, and it's in the fucking lobby. And of course, everywhere you go, you're surrounded by fat people. This isn't fat shaming. It's not me saying anything bad about that. It's just the current state of affairs.

And I'm watching the screen. I'm like, fuck, man, I'm an AZ. There's some really good shitty food spots to eat. Maybe I should take Ryan to one. And I'm like, hell no. I feel so fucking good right now. Why would I fucking throw that out the window? But it is everywhere. Like you are surrounded by that. And then, and the cravings are real. Um, and everyone is doing it. It's like, if everyone was addicted to like some horrible drug or if everyone was an alcoholic, like, and, and also a lot of

people don't understand. Um, they don't understand why you can't just have, like, for me, like, I can't just have a little cake or I can't just have a little pizza. Like if I do one bump of Coke. Yeah, exactly. I'm just doing it off of like dude's cocks. Like that's what I am with pizza. Essentially. Uh, we're like, I was, I mean, I remember there was a, there was a phase where I was like totally sober. Oh my God. And it was like, right when I was trying to go vegan, I was probably like 23, 24 and I was on the road doing shows and dude, I wasn't like tempted by girls. I wasn't tempted by drugs, by alcohol, but like my girlfriend at the time would call me and be like, are you eating pizza? And I would just be like, shamefully like hiding like, crest boxes, like under the bed. Like

you don't know me. Like it would have been the saddest, like eat true Hollywood story. Just me, like naked in a bathtub with pizza boxes. It was fucking terrible, man. But I mean, I think that's the main reason I don't drink. Like I have alcoholism in my family, but I don't think I'm an alcoholic. It's when I drink and when I smoke weed, I go to food and I make really bad food choices. And it's, I don't even wake up hungover. I wake up just like my stomach like hurts because I will just binge eat. And I will use that as an excuse, but there's something, and this is actually what I was going to, we can talk about food, but just to go back to what you were saying about the relationships. Um, it's like our, it's like our minds always testing us where there there's always some, some bad habit we're fighting. So when you were talking about those guys who were giving you

shit about being in an open relationship, a lot of them are struggling. Like what I'm struggling right now with, and this is insane and I've never done this before is, uh, it's infinitely worse than what you're going through, which is, uh, my girlfriend would never fucking cheat on, has never cheated on a boyfriend. Like her record is fucking spotless compared to like my like slutty road days. Um, and I'm starting to like, it's almost like, because there's nothing to worry about. Like, I don't get jealous. I'm not like who you fucking talking to. I don't check phone. I've never done that shit. Um, but she, we, we were like one day, like swapping, like road stories

or whatever. And just like hearing about the stuff from her past with people she doesn't talk to. I have let that haunt my brain. And it's almost because things are so good. Like they're so level that something in my body or my, my mind is trying to cause problems when they're not there. And there's actually like a term for it. Cause I Googled it. Cause I was so pissed at myself called like retroactive jealousy. So I think that, again, for people who are giving you shit, there's we all have it in us. And I think we're all ashamed of it. And it sounds like what you're just trying to do is like take it on and like confront it. But man, like we're doing relationships wrong.

I don't know if poly is the answer. I don't know if monogamy is the answer, but something is fucking broken and we're all kind of psychos when it comes to love and when it comes to relationships. And I can't, I can't figure out what that comes from. It could just, for me, it could just be a Jamie thing. And I think it's relatable. And it's just, I grew up with a dysfunctional childhood and like my first girlfriend cheated on me. And there's all this past shit that right now things are really good and healthy. And so I'm trying to create something that's not there. Um, but man, in a perfect world, open relationships make so much sense and I wish I could do it, but I'm like, God, if I'm being a lunatic with some dude, she fucked a year ago. I was like, I don't know how well I would do like having him in my home, you know? But like, I want, like, I admire the fuck out of it. And like,

I just wish we could have the conversations, like conversations like this without people getting so defensive. And I feel like, again, the reason they get defensive about drugs or food or relationships or sex is just because they're fucking scared and we don't have these conversations and we're either raised ignorant or we're raised with shame and then people just don't want to talk about it yeah i mean there's a lot there's so much to unpack in that i think i think fuck there's there's at least three things here that i want to unpack yeah one one is that there's a lot of dudes first let me just say it and i say this anytime I talk about open, I don't believe that there is one right way to do relationships.

I don't think that poly is better than monogamy. In 10 years, we could be back to monogamous. You know, Duncan Trussell was open for a little while. And then now that they just had their kid, they're back to monogamous. And I think it's fine. I think it's better to just to flow, you know, with life.

And if you're this for a little while, it doesn't make you like on the bandwagon. I'm going to beat the drum. We love labels and we love tribes so much. It just makes us feel safe. But this other, it's exactly right. But this other point that you had around like the triggers that come up just from hearing about past relationships, it blows, excuse me, it blows my fucking mind how many people I know that are married and they don't want, it's almost like they wish their wife was a virgin.

And it's like, dude, it's like, I said, understand your wife is good in bed because of all the dudes who taught her how to suck dick and fuck before you like have appreciation for that. What if I just started crying? You don't want to start from scratch yeah right think of how how shitty sex was in high school if you had sex in high school or in your early 20s it sucks yeah it's nothing compared to the sex you have when you're older there's um i think aubrey just did a one of the amp books on the fifth sacred thing which is a fucking great book we'll link to that podcast in the show notes but one of the AMP books on the fifth sacred thing, which is a fucking great book. We'll link to that podcast in the show notes.

But one of the quotes he reads from the book is, it's a blessing where this woman who, and I won't give the whole thing, I'll let you guys get into it yourself, but it basically, it's a poem that blesses all the waters that contribute to your river of love. And each stream that goes in is somebody you've been with before me,

somebody that you've been with before I showed up in your life. And it's... Oh, Giles threw it up. Actually, let's play it. Can we get that on the mic? Or is it too far away? Might be too far away.

All right, pause that shit. So yeah, we'll link to that in the show notes. Anyways, it's one of my favorite books and it's probably one of the better parts of that book and the book isn't about any one thing in particular it's uh it's set there we go you got it muted all right under control it's set um somewhere in the near future and and uh it's just a phenomenal book but it's it's a reframing of how we think of that stuff because i, I mean, there's dudes who do not want to be, I mean, if you, if a woman says, slow down while you're eating her out.

Yeah. And you take offense to that. You're a lunatic. And there, but so many dudes do because it's like, what, you don't like the way that I do it? And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Let's be a student. Yeah on let's be a student yeah let's be a student first you know like and if you listen and learn and you and you go everyone wants it differently yeah period fuck i want it differently if i'm

getting a blow job like i don't want it the same each fucking time right i want it differently so if i can give cues as to the way i want it in that moment. Yeah. And there's receptivity on the other side. How much better is the experience? Also, shouldn't you want the person to feel good even for, selfishly, you should want the person, I'm like working on this bit right now, it's not done, but about how if girls want to come a lot, they should date a sad, needy guy because like I have such a hole in my heart

that I will not stop going down on them until they come because I have to like fill it with validation where if they're like, I usually don't come from oral. I'm like, well, I guess I fucking die down here then. Like, why wouldn't you want it to feel good? And I think, yeah, again, it's that jealousy. I also think something I've been like kind of fucking with in my head. I also think that we create these problems because we want an excuse. Like, you know how sometimes I've had girls tell me that sometimes their most jealous boyfriends were cheating. And there's something

to that, right? There's something to some guy being like, who the fuck are you texting? And they're like, I'm texting my mom. And the reason they're so aggressive is because they're like, oh, well, I would have been texting. It's like the preacher who hates gays, who's a closet. Just fucking dudes. Yeah. It's kind of that. Or I mean, I even had, oh, I shouldn't even talk. I haven't even talked about this to a friend, but like, I even had this moment where, um, I'm going to do these shows and this girl and me and my girlfriend were kind of like struggling and I was in my head and this girl started like, just straight up, uh, texting me like you come to this city and I will have sex with you. It was a city I was already going to.

And there was this moment I had this gross moment where I was like, oh, that'll make me feel better about the past jealousy thing, because I'll be like, I may be jealous that you fucked a guy a year ago, but I fucked a girl today. And like, what a piece of shit move that would have been. But we do these things because we're covering up for, I think, our own insecurities, our own fears. And so instead of talking about it or doing the hard work, we're just kind of like pieces of shit to each other, hoping that it'll all cancel out, you know? And I think that's garbage. Yeah. It's hard, man. It is. I think there's, I don't know if it's Ram Dass or likely somebody before Ram Dass, but the thing you, I know Duncan says this, I'm going to butcher it,

but the thing you dislike about someone else, there's at least a little bit of that in you yeah so if you don't like trump's ridiculous ego part of that resonates with a part of you you know or you at least had some of that growing up like there's some issue there right and i think that that's a hard one to i mean that's a tough fill the swallow especially with somebody like trump if you you know, adamant against everything he stands for. But at the same time, like they're, yeah. Like if you see like an, like Rogan talks about that, like seeing children in adults, like everyone who grew up is still a kid at some point. Right. And we know this now from behavioral psychology and a lot of other things. Like if you had a trauma happen at a certain age, the development slows after that. It doesn't mean you're fucking a 12-year-old at 46,

but there's a lot of people where you're like, you got some fucking quirks, like a little kid does. No different, right? And I think recognizing that in people and recognizing it in yourself at least gives you a little bit more compassion around someone else's behavior, like an understanding of what's going on.

I legitimately think that one of the keys to being a decent person is just calling yourself out on your own bullshit. And that seems to me like the easiest thing because I've been really self-hating before. So I'm like, I just did a, a low key version of that. You know, it wasn't introspection. It was just me being like, you're a piece of shit, Jamie or whatever. Um, but when you can call yourself out and when your goal is just to be better, instead of being the guy who's like, you only go eat pussy. Uh, when your goal is I'm going to eat pussy a little better every day. Um, it makes a huge difference because like, we're all fucked up. And once you realize you're fucked up, it's like, don't you want to change those things? But people do this thing sometimes where they will almost take like too much ownership over their flaws.

Like you get the guy who's like, like, I'm just a dude who fucking gets drunk and passes out. Or like, I'm just like the girl who fucking cheats or, and it's a defense mechanism. It's, oh, if I own it, it's what I do with comedy. If I can make a joke about being a piece of shit, then it's cool because everyone's laughing about it and they're laughing about it to feel better. I mean, that's why your podcast and so many like tangential Rogan people really helped me because for a long time when I was in super progressive lefty, if you listen to a man, you're part of the problem world. I didn't really have a lot of male role models. And when I started to, uh, uh, listen to guys who were being vulnerable or talking about masculinity in a way that wasn't demonizing it or talking about health or fitness or whatever. Um, it really, really, really helped my life, man. And there's a lot of people,

I think, that would rather just kind of live in their bubble. And especially with comedy, with comedy, a lot of times the people who make it are people who get on stage and they talk about being a fuck up. And then the audience goes, ah, that makes me feel better about my fuck up life, where there have been times where I've wanted to quit drinking, or there've been times where I wanted to stop jujitsu. And even though I'm 37, I would sound like a 16 year old under peer pressure. I would tell myself that, well, this is how you get funny, or this is how you become a good comic. You can't, can't do a bunch of burpees and be funny. Like, you know what I mean? That's for like the jocks who like kicked our ass. And it's been this battle.

It's been this constant battle. And, you know, I was really good friends with Robin Williams. And I know a bunch of comics who are alcoholics and who are depressed. And I think a lot of it ties into that. Like people want the sort of sad clown that can make their life or make them feel better about their life. So yeah, I've really been going, I don't remember how I got on that, but I've really been going back and

forth with that a ton. Yeah. I wonder that too. And this is definitely through the lens of, of comedy and it certainly, it applies in other areas, but I wonder, I wonder how, I think there's some application there to fighting as well, but I wonder, um, if there's like a contrast in working on yourself to get, and this is by no means, I'm not trying to paint a broad brush with a broad brush over, uh, comedy in general, but I wonder because so many great comedians are haunted in an, in a way, right. I wonder if doing the work on yourself to feel better in everyday life would then shift the way you do comedy. Yeah. So I had this moment, I was talking to my girlfriend about this yesterday. Um,

there are a couple of ways to look at it. So this kind of ties back to just people in general, not just comedians, but a lot of times we want the excuses to enable us to make shitty decisions. Right. So if somebody says, Hey, if you keep getting drunk every night, you're going to be really funny. You go, sweet. I get to keep getting drunk every night. Right. And that's a lot easier than eating healthy and working out every day. So it enables us. And I thought that for a really long time. But then I realized, I mean, one, a lot of the best comedians in the world were fuck-ups, but then became great once they got sober. So like Bill Hicks was an alcoholic and all this stuff, but he didn't become Bill Hicks

until he quit drinking. And same with Mark Maron. Mark Maron, you know, was like doing blow and alcohol, uh, early on, but then got fucking really good. Um, when he got sober now, you know, I Hicks did psychedelics and, and, and stuff like that. But when I say sober, I usually just mean like, you know, whatever weed and alcohol, hard drugs. Um, I was reading an interview with Whitney Cummings, whose new special is so good. And she said she had this fear of that. I think when she started going to therapy, um, it was in Tim Ferriss's book actually. And when she started going to therapy, she was like, Oh, being happy is going to like ruin. I mean, how fucked up is that to be in an

industry where you're like, is being happy going to ruin my art? Um, and she said for her, it got better. Um, what I was thinking about, but I'm really, I think it comes down to confidence because I'm just, I'm just insecure when I hear like when I'm hanging out with you or when I'm with my fight team, uh, I feel like a fucking badass and I want to eat healthy and I want to do extra rounds. I was driving here and listening to Ari Shaffir's podcast and he's one of my favorite comedians in the world. And he's talking about doing like mushrooms and DMT and stuff like that. I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna go to LA and I'm going to do a bunch of mushrooms and fucking DMT. And that's like all I want to do. Right. Or I mean, that's a bad example, but you talk about drinking and I'm like, okay, maybe I should drink. Um, like there's an answer for that. And what I told my girlfriend yesterday is I've started

drinking a little bit and I mean, it really is just to fit in and to feel like a comic and not getting drunk, but just drinking enough. And then I had this moment where I was like, all the, even if I go on stage after having a drink or two, all the jokes I wrote sober, all the jokes I wrote in the afternoon, all the jokes I wrote after fucking training, um, my podcast, which is improvised, all the funny shit I say happens after Jiu Jitsu. Um, and I think with drink, I think, I think people go to, for me, I probably go to drinking to give myself the confidence to, to have an out. Like I can say whatever I want, but if you don't like it, I can be like, ah, I'm just drunk. We're having fun. Right. As opposed to being sober, where you're taking complete ownership where I'm like, this might be too

offensive or this might cross a line or you may disagree with that but it's 1000 like who i am um you know booze and weed gives you the the opportunity to be like i'm just fucked up you know yeah i get that hmm it's hard man it's tricky it is so you had you had a podcast before and i don't want to get too much into the past obviously you've gone to great lengths to discuss there's yeah reddit boards discussing uh quite a bit which is you know it's fucking reddit but I think I think a good podcast that you did we were just listening to the three-hour episode you did with Bert Kreischer on the Bert cast yeah which is great man it's great because it paints it from all angles and um you know it's I think it's new enough I think it was a year ago but

it's new enough that you're able to kind of see like the full scope of things. So I mean, if people are like, isn't that the guy that was on Rogan's? Like, yeah, we'll link to that in the show notes and you can check it out. And it's a great fucking episode. Yeah. But yeah, like thinking about like all the different ways that we think, all the different ways that we cope because life is hard and then all the different ways that we give ourselves

excuses. And it's not to say like everyone should quit quit alcohol. Like I still drink on occasion and in large part, I'm nodding my head. Yes. When you're talking about that, the, the need to fit in or, or the thing, you know, like when I go out tonight, I'm gonna go out with a bunch of my old football teammates. And, um, I love those guys. And I was at, I was at one of their weddings and I'm stretching. I think I've told this story before on the podcast, but I'll bring it up again. You know, I'm in my spandex stretching. I'm one of the groomsmen and I'm just stretching out and I've got a fair amount of LSD with

me. And I know I have a 5 a.m. flight the next day and my son's like a year old. I need to come. I need to show up as dad when I get back. Like, I don't never want to show up hungover. Sure. Even though I did that after Burning Man. And so at this point, I'm like, I just, I want to, I want to feel good.

I want to have a good time. I want to celebrate. And then I want to get on that flight early in the morning and not feel like a piece of shit the next day. So acids, my answer. Yep. And, um, of course everybody's like, what the fuck dude, you're not going to fucking drink or do blow. And I'm like, well, not, I mean, no, not tonight. And I'm'm definitely not doing that but if y'all want to join me with the acid like i got enough for everyone and of course everybody's like no no we're not fucking with that hippie shit so interesting and so i've been i've been on the fence back and forth about having a drink tonight i think i'll probably have like a shot of tequila like a good little sip or something and and be fine but you know this is a work trip i'm podcasting tomorrow morning. And I've got a big weekend ahead of me. So alcohol really doesn't do it for me if I have to be sharp. You know, and I mean, there's plenty of other things that I would choose from,

even from a recreational standpoint, like GHB, things like that, that aren't, I wouldn't say they're transformative in a way where I'm growing and learning about myself, but they kind of give me the fun without consequence. Now I say that with an asterisk, obviously, you know, Billy Idol went into a coma from too much GHB. People get raped on GHB and, uh, you know, not to bring up the rape topic, but you know, like that there, there's a dark side to anything if used improperly. I think with moderate and respectful use of anything, you can have a good time. And then, you know, GHB is used by bodybuilders. Like you can sleep very well. It increases growth hormone.

It increases deep sleep. So like if I'm comparing the drug alcohol to the drug GHB, there is no question which one is safer and better for me. Yeah. No question. We, uh, again, it's just what we're taught and, and, and how we're raised where I, my big debate about this LA trip is I'm staying with one of my favorite comedians who was like one of the guys who like discovered me. And I want to make this, I don't have like a ton of gigs. I'm going essentially, it's like a total lost financial trip. I'm doing like a couple spots and, uh, my friend's podcast was just kind of bigger trip. I'm doing like a couple spots and my friend's

podcast, which is kind of bigger, but I'm not doing a ton. It's definitely not worth driving eight hours. Um, but I was like, I'm staying with my friend and I have mushrooms in my car, not even a lot. And I haven't done mushrooms in years. I have like, it's not a lot and I'm fucking scared to do it. And every time I've done mushrooms, never had a bad trip in my life. Um, and I'm scared to do it. And instead I'm like, maybe I'll just drink every night. And that is literal poison.

Like drinking is so much fucking worse, but just like the groomsmen where it's like, like acid, like, no, that's what I saw videos about that in the fifties. But like, you're going to do like rails of Coke off like a bride's tit. And it's like, well, that's not good. Like that's so much worse. And drinking is so much worse. And drinking has killed so many more people and ruined so many more lives. But drinking is on the billboard, just like McDonald's is on the billboard.

If only we could eat mushrooms off a bride's tit. I know, right? Then it would be more popular. Let to get the best of both worlds. We got to get to the marketing department of fucking mushrooms. Yeah, man. And you know, what you were saying about Bert's podcast is that want me to, how do I phrase this? So if I wanted to be like the liberal guy who got fucked over by the left and, you know, now is conservative and like my whole Twitter is just like making fun of feminists. And I wrote a book called like why I left the left and the right is right. I would be a bazillionaire.

I would have so much fucking money. I would be miserable. I would be a sellout. I'd be a piece of shit. And I probably wouldn't sustain itself. And then you could do the follow-up 10 years later on how you left the right after leaving the left that's how i make my fucking living forever until i blow my brains out on cnn uh and so but it's uh what

what even the stuff i mean there's so much stuff i haven't even said publicly like i've said enough to like make the majority of people be like oh oh, that was stupid. What happened to you? Um, but there's a lot of stuff that I, I tell my friends or I tell people I'm dating. Um, but I had this moment when it all happened where I was like, well, I can either be vindictive and bitter. And, you know, I mean, the first option was killing myself. This is a bitter vindictive was the second option. Or you could just be like, even if I'm not the person people said, even if I didn't do the things people said, um, there are still corrections I can make. Right. And there are still ways that I can become, uh, a better person.

And that's kind of my only goal now is to do that. That's why if I have a problem as little as I got jealous, hearing my very sweet girlfriend, tell me some story about like some ex or something that's enough for me to have a conversation and tell her like, Hey, I'm not correct here. I'm being wrong. And I want to fix it. As opposed to, I think my old self who just held everything in assumed everything was my fault, assumed I was fucking up. And then, you know, eventually just cave and go out and cheat or do something shitty like that. Um, I'm just trying to, to learn from the mistakes and it's not that fucking hard. Well, I think the main thing that you've brought up here

is the fact that you take ownership you know i mean i'm not a i i i wouldn't say i'm like the the biggest jocko willing fan i'm certainly a fan and i love his kids books i'm reading one now to bear um that's awesome i haven't seen his kids it's awesome dude from wimpy to warrior and it's such a it's such a good book i, there's lessons in it for me. There's lessons in it for plenty of adults. But I've read Extreme Ownership and I want to get Discipline Equals Freedom. All these things tie back to taking ownership of every single thing that happens in your life. Dude.

And that's like the first, that is your fucking foundation to building off of. Because if it's someone else that's causing you misery, or if it's something else that screwed you in life or took away your chance or your one shot was ruined, like that's the narrative you fucking live by. It locks you into that ideal. And there's no way out from that because if I paint the picture of helplessness,

that is exactly what I embody going forward. Totally. And not only does that affect you and does that make you feel like a fucking wimpy dork who can't fix anything, but it also, to me, isn't it more powerful to, to realize that you have the opportunity to change it. If you're just blaming other people, right? If I'm just blaming my ex-wife, if I'm just blaming like someone who made up some bullshit

about me, I can't really change that. There's nothing I can do. But if I'm trying to take ownership of like, what could I have done better? Like, you know, I was really depressed and selfish. I made everything about me. I was too much of a pussy to get out of a broken relationship. So I stayed in it thinking, telling myself I was being this good guy. When in reality, I'm just like, just dragging a fucking bunch of carcasses behind me. And then using that as an excuse to like go off and cheat. Right. Um, if I can realize that like, those are the mistakes I did, it's like,

well, now I have the power to change it. That's one of the things I don't like. I'm like very careful. I don't like saying anything bad about AA. Cause I know it's That's one of the things I don't like. I'm like very careful. I don't like saying anything bad about AA because I know it's helped a lot of people and there's a lot of really good stuff about it. But I remember I wrote some article years ago about like my struggle with different addictions. And this wasn't even meant to be a shot at AA, but I ended it by saying something like, fuck being powerless, be powerful. That was like the last sentence. And I was like, that was pretty poetic. And I got a bunch of shit from AA people because one of their big kind of mantras or mottos or whatever is that you're powerless

over this addiction. And- Yeah, and you have to find a higher power. Right. No matter what that is, whether you call it the universe or God or whatever that is for you. My higher power was like more alcohol.

And what's the bummer of that is to me, I'm like, well, if you take responsibility, if you have the power within you, doesn't that mean, cause I know alcoholics who were like, who would relapse and then were like, well, I guess it was just meant to be for a reason. And if I didn't relapse,

I wouldn't have met this person. And it's just like, ah, like you're using this really shitty thing. You're giving yourself an out essentially. I think that too. I mean, you're giving it, we always make excuses for ourselves, but also we want to attach meaning to everything that happens in our life. That's a great point. And I do that as well. I mean, that's, that's why we are storytellers. We tell the story to paint meaning into our lives in every single circumstance. Yeah. You know? Yeah, man. And for me, I just think that the second I stopped doing that and look, that happens a lot on the left. A lot of the stereotypes that Republicans used to say about liberals, like I a hundred percent did that. I just like, I wanted self-care. I wanted people

to tell me I was good. I wanted to look virtuous. I wanted to, um, uh, publicly act like I, I knew better when in reality, I was just fucking scared and didn't know what I was doing with my life. But if I could, you know, publicly proclaim that this politician's an asshole, it would, I would get to stop thinking about myself. And yeah, it was like you and the Jockos and like, and people fucking hate Jordan Peterson, but like, dude, I was a 36 year old and I was like, oh, I should make my bed. Like that's a big deal. And that shouldn't be. And by the way, for all the liberals listening to this show, which I, I think I'm still fairly liberal, uh, pretty liberal. I think that when you demonize masculinity so much,

all these young men, they're going to go in the extreme opposite direction because unless I, the only thing that saved me was being heavy into jujitsu, where I was just around a bunch of apolitical, oddly enough, more diverse than my liberal friends, athletes. And it was the first time I had male role models being like, get the fuck up, like stop being a pussy. And I was like, you can't say the word pussy. But you know what I mean? Like that shit was so important to me. It was so important to me to have these guys. And I was like, oh wait, masculinity can be really good. But if you're telling all these young men that masculinity is only bad and you're turning them into these sort

of like self-hating beta dudes who like fear jocks or fear, which is what I was, or feared athletes and never really pushed themselves. And then they just start lashing out on social media. One, they're going to go fucking crazy. But two, all of these young men who can go either to the left or the right, when I Google stuff about masculinity, I'm going to get a bunch of right-wing people. I'm not going to get any left-wing dudes being like, hey, it's really fucking masculine to defend the gay kid who's being picked on, or it's really fucking masculine to work yourself to where, you know, that you're strong and you can defend someone. So you can do it either defend your

family or you can defend a community that's being marginalized by the government, right? Like that to me is badass. That's a badass way of looking at masculinity. But if you are only, if the only people talking about masculinity on the left are calling it toxic and saying you're inherently bad because of these masculine traits and they're trying to take that away, then it's like we have trouble. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a fucking hit the nail on the head. There's a lot right now in the current climate where I think people just don't know what to do, specifically boys.

They don't know what to do or how to behave or what's appropriate and what's not. And I think that's where, I mean, so much of this comes back down to, how do I be in the world? What is appropriate? What is the way to be? And I think from there, you have to look at

what are the good qualities? And I think, I know I talked about this recently, but we're going to have Anahata back on. She's up in Sedona. She's one of my favorite people in the world. And she has this chart, and I'll get it, and I'll try to, I think we'll be able to get it in a few days and link to it on this podcast. But there's a chart that talks about the divine masculine and the divine feminine. Oh, yeah.

Whether you're into God or not, like, you can just replace that with good masculine, good feminine, and unconscious masculine, unconscious feminine would be the traits that are less desired. And for that matter, one thing that she brings up is every good human, every person who's living the way they should be living. And I know Ted Decker's big on stop shooting, stop shooting on yourself. Don't shoot this or should that. But to be complete, we all embody both sides of the spectrum. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like there are qualities of both. We want both. It's not that one's right or wrong. Now, unconscious masculine, unconscious feminine, there's plenty of dudes.

You could argue that social justice warriors contain a lot of the unconscious feminine, like gossipy, bitchy, talking shit about people, right? And women, of course, will be like, the 20% that are listening to the show will say like, why is that unconscious feminine? It's like, listen, I got this chart from a woman. She can explain it better than I can. But when we link to it, when we link to it in the show notes and you look at that, you see opposite of the unconscious is the conscious, is the divine version. And how those parallel back and forth between the feminine and the masculine, I think those are critical. And

it's most importantly, even though I've done a very poor job of explaining what this is and going through it all, The point is there are guiding posts for us to live better. And I think if we can start to use language around that, as opposed to a bigger issue that we see in all things today is only pointing out what's wrong with things rather than pointing to what's right. Yes. And working our way towards there. Okay. Right. So this is huge. And this is what I've been obsessed with. And this is like the premise of my podcast. And it's why people have refused to listen to it. And it's also why it's blowing up, which is I'm talking to people I disagree with and that shouldn't be controversial, but it is. And I think that the reason the extreme left is getting more extreme and the

extreme right is getting more extreme. And the reason for that is because we're not talking to each other. Um, and we're getting fucking defensive, right? So for example, I have a bunch of conservative friends for the first time in my life. And a lot of them are public, uh, and they're well-known and I follow them on Twitter and we'll let's take guns for example, right? Cause everyone's talking about that right now. I used to literally assume that whenever there was a mass shooting, uh, gun owners and conservatives didn't give a fuck. Weren't looking for solution, just needed to, uh, protect their guns so they could go in the back and fucking shoot hay, uh, instead of learning how to like eat their girlfriend outright. Right. And I was just like, fuck these little dick pussies.

Now I follow a bunch of gun owners and I see that gun owners, whenever there's a mass shooting, are posting things like, fuck, this has to stop. We have to do something. How can we fix this? Too many children are dying. And your conservative listeners are going to fucking kill me. But like, I was legitimately surprised at that because that's the kind of bubble I was in. And in fact, now I'm realizing if I was a gun owner, I would be even more outraged. It would be like if everyone, if there was like a murderer just using jujitsu to kill people, me and you would be like, we got to fucking stop that guy. It's making jujitsu look terrible. Right. And not only that, but the majority of liberals don't know shit about guns. I want to talk to

people who are fucking trained, who have bought guns, who know what they need to do to tactically be a responsible gun owner. I want to talk to them and get their solutions instead of a bunch of liberals who are terrified of guns. Right. So one of my buddies from like Glenn Beck's network, like as conservative as you can get posted something really sweet, um, being like, we got to figure something out. Maybe it's background checks. Maybe it's even use the words white supremacy, which I didn't think that, uh, Republicans used. And I retweeted it. And I was like, Hey, here's a conservative who wants to fix something. I'm a liberal that wants to fix something. Let's talk about it. And all the conservatives who responded were like, fuck. Yeah. Like blah, blah, blah. And dude, all these liberals, I got like,

I lost so many followers that day where they're like, well, did you shouldn't have fucking voted for Donald Trump? And it's like, what are you doing right now? If you actually care about gun violence, you have a conservative who is saying, let's figure something out. And you're shutting them out because you want to be the cool kid on Twitter. And so then that makes gun owners, when a bunch of gun owners who could come to the table and come up with solutions, if they're just being called fucking Nazis and they're just being, you know, you're glad mass shootings happen, blah, blah, blah.

You think they're going to want to come to the table anymore? No. So now when someone like Beto says, I'm going to take your guns, now these gun owners have stopped coming to the table for solutions. And now they're defensive where now they're just like, fuck you. I tried. You're not taking my guns. And now we're back to where we started and we can't have the conversation when in reality, the more conservatives I talk to, the more I realize that most of us want the same thing. We want to take care of our families. We want to live in safe neighborhoods. We want to pet the stranger's dogs. We want our kids to be raised well. We just disagree on how to get there. And if we realize that conservative, dude, I got an email from a

listener this morning who was like, I'm a person of color. I'm a liberal. And I would break down crying at least twice a month until I started listening to your show because I literally thought all Republicans thought I was less than human. That sucks. That fucking sucks. And all I've done, my show's not groundbreaking. I've just talked to conservatives and not screamed at them. And I've just let them talk.

And they've let me talk. Um, and that does not happen enough, you know? And I think it happens like in your guys kind of sphere, because you're not like a political show per se. So people can say something kind of lefty and then kind of more conservative on the same episode and no one gives a shit. But in like the political world of Twitter and people who are obsessed with it, it's like, you are either a hard line left or your hard line, right. And like, I've been called alt right for going on Rogan show.

And like, you know, Joe, like that dude's not an alt right guy. Um, or for writing for a certain place. And it's, we're just writing for Breitbart.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Writing that we need to build a wall around Planned Parenthood because abortion is murder. And now they call me Republican. No, no, I'm so fucking so liberal when I go on these shows. They just think if you go on a show and it's had a conservative on before, you're now this

because we're just becoming more tribalized. But when you talk to normal people, it's like, yeah, we agree on most shit. It's not that bad. Yeah, I think that's that's one of the critical pieces in today and going forward, because this likely ain't going to change overnight, is how do we find common ground? And from there, how do we get to a place where we can have a conversation without the need to be right? Like, that's such a thing. Like, you know, and it's easy for people who aren't incredibly religious. Maybe they're spiritual.

Maybe they're atheists. But they're not incredibly atheists. Because you can be as dogmatic as the hard-nosed. I've spoken at rallies. I opened for Christopher Hitchens once. I've been around those people. So, like, if you're... I mean, it's a sliding scale.

If you're so far into atheism, you end up sounding like the people that you dislike, you know, from, from that standpoint, at least. So point is, if you can get to a place where you can have the conversation and you let go of the need to convince someone else of their shit, you can find out at the very least more about them, how they see the world through their eyes, right? If you don't need to convince them to change, like, and that's the thing, like my wife's mom is super Christian. She's doing, she did a month in India, you know, taking the good book over and trying to save people, you know, and she's in Guatemala saving people. And she thinks that we're going to burn

in hell for being open. She thinks bear will burn in hell if we don't teach them about Jesus. And like, that is bananas to me because fuck, I don't even need to get into that. But my point is that if I can let go of that, let go of the need to change her, it makes me enjoy her more. The issue is when she doesn't let go of the need to change me. Right. Right. So if she would just drop that, we could connect on so much. Yeah.

So much. I mean, dude, when I didn't talk to my grandma, I still don't really talk to her because she was a hardcore evangelical Christian conservative. I mean, I remember the first time I walked into her house as an adult, I just remembered her like being loving to me, like on the beach in Hawaii. And I walk into her house and there's pictures of like her with George Bush and her with Pat Robertson. I was like, oh, I gotta get the fuck out of here. It was like a horror movie. And I kind of like I never heard her out.

And I kind of just stopped talking to her. And so my new girlfriend who I was talking about, her parents are very conservative and I went into it differently. I went into it being like, all I know about them is that they love Emma and she loves them so much. And they're so good to her. They're such great people. And I know that I love her. So we have that in common. So like, that's kind of all I need to know right now. Um, and within, I mean, we text each other. I love you now. I've been with them for like six months.

I'm like texting with her mom. Like, I love you. Um, cause they're wonderful people. And by the way, we didn't just bury politics. We talked about it pretty soon. I'm not recommending that to like any guys listening who are like about to like meet their girlfriend's parents to be like, what do you think about abortion? But we talked about it. And I think, and this is what I've been doing in

my interviews too, where instead of going at it with, I have to be right. Whereas you're saying something I disagree with. I have my talking point locked and loaded. I'm not hearing anything. I'm just waiting for your mouth to stop. Um, so I can scream my truth at you. Um, instead of doing that, I'm actually, I like kind of want them to convince me, you know? So like when, like her dad's a gun owner, I'm like, fucking great. I finally get to ask a gun owner what he thinks about shootings. And I want to know, right? I do that with all of my interviews now. I just interviewed this hardcore Trump guy. He's a, he's a 17 year old black kid, huge Trump guy has like a gigantic following. And, uh, we should hate each other politically. And dude, if we didn't,

if, if people didn't know he was conservative and people didn't know I was liberal, um, it sounds like we agreed on everything. We agreed about unnecessary war. We agreed about wanting to help poor people, um, all this shit. We just have different ways to go about it. But if you, if you start from there and it's like a decent, decent people from the right want to talk to decent people from the left, it's like, fuck yes, you can come up with solutions. I now know that for a fact, but we have such ego and we're in our little bubble and we want our likes and we want our retweets. And whenever you tweet about something that you enjoyed, it gets like three sad faves. But when you're fucking cursing out Trump or whatever, it'll blow the fuck up and make your

Twitter big. And that's how you get a TV special now is however many followers you have. And, you know, we are making it, especially in entertainment, sort of impossible to just be normal and just be decent, you know? That's why I was so excited to do this show is because I feel like there's, there's these, these shows kind of tangential to, to, to entertainment, to comedy that can still be entertaining, obviously, but are kind of like, Hey, let's talk to a bunch of different people and figure out how to be better. And like, dude, if I walked into a comedy club with like a self-help book, people would be like,

gay, get out of here. Tony Robbins. Yuck. You're trying to better yourself. It would be a fucking nightmare. Uh, but man, I think we're going to get so, I think we're becoming so miserable that there is going to be kind of pushback and people are going to be fed up and kind of like, they're sick of yelling at each other on Twitter. I think that's why mindfulness is popular now. I think that's why yoga is becoming more popular. I think that's why keto and eating healthy, like that stuff's being pushed into the mainstream more because I think people are the pendulum swinging. I think people are fed up. Yeah.

I mean, it's going to I think it gets worse before it gets better with most things. And that certainly looks like it'll be the case with shootings. Unfortunately, it certainly looks like that'll be the case with politics, but eventually, hopefully that expansion shrinks back down and we get closer to one another. Yeah. When you're off the air, do you consider yourself? Because what I've realized is the less political I've become when it comes to like horse race, democratic candidate, like that kind of political, like on Twitter, um, the better person I've been, uh, as a human to other humans, whether it's the person at the grocery store and I'm talking to them instead of on my phone or whether it's my girlfriend. Like I said, that thing on Bert's, I think I'm Barry was on bird show. And it was true where I was literally the kind of person

who, if someone was like, Jamie, your mom's on the phone, I'd be like, tell her I can't talk. I'm tweeting about feminism. You know, like I'm ignoring the real women in my life. Um, it was gross, but, but now I feel like, and maybe I'm using this as an excuse to be a little more apathetic or apolitical, but I'm like, I don't know, man, I'm a much better person. And I think that's kind of a political statement. Maybe I'm not screaming about Trump on Twitter all day, but we don't need more of that. I think we just need more decent people. And so I was going to ask you, do you consider yourself political off air? Or are you kind of like in that sort of same boat where you're like, I'm just going to try to be nice and listen to people?

Yeah. I mean, so similar to what you were talking about with conservative, I don't have any, any high profile conservative friends. I mean, I have some, some Twitter buddies that I would say are high profile. But, you know, there's, it's funny because like people that I grew up with that I've known since I was 12 years old, back in the Bay Area, we all went to ASU together. And then they all moved back to Cali. And now, you know, I live out in Texas. It's about split 50-50 between Democrat and Republican. And the Republicans, I think, because the Republicans in California are a little bit more hard-nosed. But when I listen to them, not only whether I agree with them or not, I can at least see where they're coming from.

And I think the more I've practiced that, because I live in a weird fucking spot. You know, like Austin, they keep Austin weird bumper stickers. And I have a lot of family from the Pacific Northwest. Keep Portland weird is a thing. Portland is a fucking weird town. Yeah. Period. It's a, it's a dope town. P town's awesome, but it is, it's truly weird. Austin is weird for Texas. Well, it's not a weird town. Both of those, both of those places are where everyone with Republican parents in Texas and Oregon just escaped to. Yeah. And they made that their kind of commune, like Portland still surrounded by like fucking militias, you know what I mean?

Like in other parts of the state. So I think it's all the rebellious kids and they ran to those cities and made it weird. Yeah. And there's comical shit in both places. But I think that, you know, being in Austin now,

which is like an island of California in the state of Texas, you know, and I grew up in the Bay Area. But there is that, you know, like I walk, There is that same contrast of there are both sides here. It's not like an amalgamation. But I do feel like people in Austin, first thing I noticed when I moved there for working on it was I saw all these signs that said Black Lives Matter, love is love in a rainbow color yeah uh it's my choice

for women's rights you know like and it just went down the list but it covered like every liberal hashtag you see online and um and i just blew my mind seeing all these signs and all the beto signs and i was like oh okay this is damn sure a liberal town but i think we see that in a lot of the the big university towns, right? I heard Madison, Wisconsin is the same way. And I know Jordan Peterson talks about that as well. But, you know, you don't hear a lot about anti-guns in Austin. It's almost like that one thing slips through the cracks of the liberal debate because Texas is down. And, you know, it's funny that Beto talks about that,

taking guns. Cause he's like, Hey, you're not gonna, you know, nobody's going to sell those guns back. Right. B you're not going to fucking take them. Texas would exit from the United States beforehand. And it's funny. Cause I remember hearing that before I lived there and I was like, yeah, yeah, sure you will. And then I live in town. I'm like, Oh, these fucking guys. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. And that's one of the cooler things about texas is that they it feels like even with the difference in agreements that texans have each other's back for the most part and that's like a cool feeling and i think like the more we could spread that it's not i mean obviously that's that's kind of statewide but if you think, like, there are things that we should appreciate more of. And I think that's part of the issue with the extreme left is the idea that everything's

fucked, everything's broken. And here are the reasons why, right? Toxic masculinity, patriarchy, you fucking name it. You can, even if that was correct, you paint the picture of why it's broken why it's wrong you have to start to talk about what makes it right and you also have to have this goes for us as individuals too the macro down to the micro i can say all the things that i don't like about my life all the things that are going wrong but unless i focus on what's good and what i have gratitude for and what I'm content with and

what I enjoy in life, I'm looking through the lens of fear and anger instead of looking through the lens of love, happiness, and gratitude. Yeah. And it's addict mentality. It's addict mentality on a larger scale where if everything is fucked and everything is bad, then what's the point of getting better? You know what I mean? Like so many addicts will tell themselves that, well, my life shit. So I might as well drink or I might as well be drunk or whatever. Um, and we're just doing that. Like everything that we're doing on social media right now that we're, it's like the opposite of, uh, uh, of how to get healthy. Right. So like one of the things that, uh, people, and you, you've talked about this, but like the, just being positive or visualization

or looking for positive things or whatever, or for an athlete, like picturing yourself winning. We do the opposite of that every day on Twitter, where we look at Twitter and we're looking for people who fucked up and we're looking at, even if they didn't fuck up now, you know, we'll find Kevin Hart's tweets from 10 years ago. And we'll make sure that this like young, successful black guy can't host the Oscars because he was wrong on like a different woke topic, however many years ago. And we're just searching. If we spend all day training our brain to search for the negative and it's like, what the fuck is that going to do to us as individuals?

You'll always find it. Yeah. You'll always find it. But now we're training ourself and we're bringing that into our personal life as well, because that's all we do online. So now we're in our personal life and we're searching for the negative. So now our life's getting shittier. And then once our life gets shittier, we want to take it out on more people. So we go back on Twitter. I mean, that's what happened with me. Um, or it's just, I was miserable and I was taking it out on like Twitter people. Cause I didn't have any real relationships

in my life or friends. And I was getting validation online. And then you keep kind of chasing the dragon. Um, as opposed to now it's like, I don't know, maybe I don't have as many followers, but fucking I'm happy. Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. Well, shit. We're at, we're at, uh, 10, 10 here. We got to jump on your podcast and then I got a jam after that. So this has been a fucking awesome conversation. I'm sure we'll pick this conversation right where we left off on your podcast. Anytime. Yeah. Anytime. Anytime. Awesome. Thanks for coming on. Where can people find you online? Oh yeah. So, uh, Twitter at Jamie Kilstein. My Instagram is new. It's like my happy place where it's just jujitsu and cats. I feel like your people like my Instagram more, uh, but it's the Jamie Kilstein.

And then the podcast is just Jamie Kilstein podcast everywhere podcasts happen. Awesome, brother. Yay. Thanks, man. Thank you guys for tuning in to the show with Jamie Kilstein. Hit us up on the gram. Let us know what you think.

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