Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #123 Dr. Lauro Patino

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

Dr. Lauro Amezcua-Patino is a psychiatrist in Chandler, Arizona and is affiliated with Oasis Behavioral Health-Chandler. He received his medical degree from University Auto De Baja California, Esc De Med and has been in practice for more than 20 years. In this episode we take a deep dive into my own personal brain scan results.    Connect with Dr. Lauro Patino Website - https://www.metronbi.com/#!providers/cjg9   Show Sponsors| XPT Download the XPT App - www.xptlife.com/kyle    Comrad Socks www.comradsocks.com/kyle (for 20% off)    Onnit  Get 10% off all foods and supplements at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/kyle/   Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Website | https://www.kingsbu.com Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk    Subscribe to the Kyle Kingsbury Podcast iTunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2Ib3HCg Google Play Music | https://bit.ly/2HPdhKY

All right, you guys, we have a monster episode today. This is, I mean, I know I've said this before, but this is probably one of the most excited I've been to release an episode, to be perfectly honest. And it's not because the guest is well-known. It's not because I think this is going to get a fucking huge bump or spike in numbers. I think it's going to do well, but it is because of the content of this show. The content of this show is basically diving into a deep dive

of what my brain and personal history is. And I had heard about Dr. Patino before. He's been practicing medicine for over 30 years, born in Mexico, and came to the States as a medical doctor and working in psychiatry. He's also one of the first psychiatrists to start using ketamine-assisted therapy for depression and anxiety. So a lot to cover there, and we dive into that. But what's cool is he takes a very broad approach to how he analyzes his patients. And I did four fucking hours of grueling testing that would normally be spread out over the course of a few days or a few weeks.

I crammed it all. I did it all. And after, I think, a short window of chatting with Dr. Patino about his background, we take a deep dive into exactly what my brain looks like from all the fighting, all the football, all the drugs, the bad drugs, not the good ones. And then we dive into some of the good ones. And we really get a deeper perspective through family history and everything that goes on in creating a person and making them who they are in the now. So this is for sure the most revealing podcast I've ever done. He wasn't necessarily sure I wanted to reveal everything, but I do like to share. I like to share with you guys exactly what makes me tick, what I'm learning, and what a cool thing to do,

to have a podcast where we could really take a deep dive into everything that's working inside, in between my ears, and not working for that matter. But it was extremely informative, very cool. He has a practice out in Chandler, Arizona. And if it's something you're interested in, you can visit him. He does have about a four-month wait, but he does take people in from out of town. People come from all over the world to see this guy.

He is fantastic. He helped my coach, Vince Perez-Mazzola, who was my first striking coach, really get through some deep depression and come off a lot of pharmaceuticals. About 90% of his pharmaceutical meds have been reduced through the work that he's done with Dr. Pitino. It's an excellent fucking episode. Please, please write me on Instagram. Let me know what you think of this one at Kingsville on Instagram or Twitter. And also support this show. Support this show by clicking subscribe. Leave us a five-star rating wherever you can. Write one or two ways the show has helped you in life and support our sponsors. We've got some great sponsors today, one of which is brand new. It's a company called Comrade,

and they make compression socks. Now, as an athlete, I've been using compression socks for many years. It's something that I was turned on to early on by one of my strength and conditioning coaches. Basic principles are if you're pounding, like running or doing anything that's hard and shocking to the body, compression socks can do very good for you because they reduce the stress from that pounding. They don't reduce the training effect. So it's not like taking ibuprofen before a race or high-dose vitamin C. You still get the same training effect, but you increase recovery time. They're also excellent for travel. And as you know, I'm on fucking planes all the time. One of the first times that I used compression socks was flying to Thailand, which was absolutely brutal. And without that, I would have little smoky sausages

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app today and live limitless. And last but not least, we've got Onnit. Onnit's brand new HydraCore bag just came out. You can get the best workout anytime, anywhere, just add water. The HydraCore bag uses the power of water dynamics to build stability, strength, and explosiveness like no other training tool. Fold it up and take it on the road for a workout you can do anytime, anywhere, no heavy weights necessary. When you lift the HydroCore bag, it wants to keep going in whatever direction you were moving. The water inside it sloshes around and your shoulders, hands, hips, and core have to work to stop it from pulling you out of position and breaking form. Overcoming all that inertia builds head-to-toe stability. This is key. So one of the reasons why I do farmer's walks

and other shit like that, if you're training your entire body from the ground up with the feet and balance is in place, it's also going to train the brain. That's another factor that this can induce. Balance training works the brain because it affects the central nervous system, and this bag does it all. This is the kind of stability you need to hold on to resisting an opponent if you're a fighter, lifting heavier weights if you're a gym rat, and preventing injury if you have a history

of low back pain. To learn more, go to onnit.com slash Kyle for 10% off your HydroCorp bag. Thank you guys for tuning in to today's show with Dr. Patino. Let me know what you think on the gram. Visit my website, kingsboo.com, and I'll check back with you in a few days. Dr. Patino? Hi, Kai. How are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm doing much better now that I've

been done with the battery of tests I just completed. Yes. Well, kind of the way I want to arc the show today is to get your background in medicine, what drew you into this, and what you're doing now here at your practice to help with depression and anxiety and a lot of the mental health issues that we see today. Absolutely. Gosh, that's a lot of history. I've been doing this for more than 30 years. So I'm originally from Mexico.

I was born and raised there from a Mexican father and American mother. So kind of backwards. I was an American in Mexico growing up. And my father was a physician. My older sister is a physician. So it was kind of a natural thing for me to go into medicine. So I went to medical school in Mexico. Eventually came to California. I was in UCI 1982. I went to UCI to do a year of family medicine. So completed that year, went back to Mexico.

Didn't want to be in medicine anymore. So I came back to the United States in 85, here to Arizona. I had some contacts here, and I actually wanted to be a hospital administrator. I was more into the business side of medicine than necessarily getting into medicine itself. But they sent me to psychiatry, and I found it really fascinating. I found it fascinating for a number of reasons. That was at the beginning of the biological revolution in psychiatry when everything was supposed to be medications and biology. But I also got a lot of training in psychoanalytic and cognitive behavioral issues.

So that really helped me kind of frame myself a little better in terms of what I wanted to do. And you need to understand in terms of age, I went to medical school when I was 17 years old. So graduated when I was 21. So by the time I came here in 85, I was already a doctor for three or four years, so I was 25 years old. So that is kind of the age, I know this now, is an age when you're kind of starting to mature. Actually, brainwives, your brain stops maturing fast around age 25. So when we talk about teenage years, we're talking about very immature biological brain issues, right? So then I went into psychiatry, completed my residency, and I've been practicing since 88.

And I've done a lot of things. I mean, I pretty much, if there's something to be done in psychiatry, I've done it in terms of inpatient work, outpatient work, forensic work. I worked quite a bit on death penalty cases with psychiatric patients. But I've always been interested in the brain in particular, in terms of what is the relation between our brain and our behavior. So a lot of the things that we do now have to do with trying to provide the patient understanding of what is happening, because we find that medicine has turned a lot into directiveness, meaning this is what you have and this is what you should take, right?

Versus I have a human in front of me who is in pain, whether it's physically or emotionally, who wants options, right? And I perceive the role of a doctor more as a provider of options, you know, that the person has to exercise. So we really look into, okay, so this is what we think you have. These are the options available. Which one do you want, right? More comprehensively in a biological, psychological, and social way. So we recognize, and we have recognized for a while that really in behavioral health, in psychiatry, biology is about a third. The other two thirds is your social environment and your psychology, you know, your experience, your way of dealing with stuff. And I think that we have been kind of, to some degree, dishonest, I think, over the last 30 years in telling people, if you take this medication, your life is going to change.

And that needs to change because people bought it, you know, and people have an expectation now that, well, fix me, right? Give me a pill so I can do something. And we have moved away from that. So we're trying to not move away from the biological side. We're trying to see how can we use the biological side to improve the psychological and social in the context of the patient having to really take the lead and not the physician. So yeah, I think it's as simple as looking at the track record and seeing kind of the rise in a lot of these medications that

are supposed to fix people. And they're not necessarily getting the results that we would hope for. I'm a very strong believer on epigenetics, meaning we're born with certain guides, right, in terms of where we're supposed to go like most mammals do. I think that our worst enemies are intelligence. I think that we overutilize it to try to understand why instead of understanding how. And things have changed a lot over the years, and I think that that's put a lot of pressure on our ability to modify our genetics.

So we're putting a lot of stress, I think, in our genetic makeup, right? To try to advance to points that end up translating into significant stress. A lot of problems with anxiety or a lot of problems with sadness, a lot of problems with depression. Some of which, a small percentage,

are purely biologically based. But in general, very seldom you're going to see a psychiatric problem that started out of nothing, right? There's usually something triggering it. Yeah, it's making me remember the book, Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky. And just thinking of that, like the zebra gets attacked by a lion. And if it survives, it will very quickly, once it's in the clear, just go back to eating grass, maybe get some water, have sex, whatever is in front of it, it's going to go back to doing. Whereas we will replay that event at infinity throughout our day, throughout the weeks that come up. It just always circles back to the thing that we don't wish to relive. And to some degree, we see that a lot in post-traumatic stress disorder.

Post-traumatic stress disorder is really a disorder of memory in which the normal channels of memory, for example, if you're going to be eaten by an animal, you have to get really scared, right? Naturally, you don't have to think about it. And the memory gets imprinted into your brain, right? And that memory is supposed to be there, right? For the next time that it happens, you can bring it up. But what happens if that memory just keeps repeating itself? That's what we call the flashbacks, you know? So that is where we have to recognize that we have the mechanisms of

protection, but sometimes they go away. And sometimes we have to intervene or try to help someone to refix that memory cycle. Because our memory is there for our own protection, right? It is there to register danger danger and we're able to recognize it subconsciously so we don't walk into the same path again. But if that system goes wrong, then you start repeating it quite a bit. Well, we're here in your office. We just went through, I think, I don't know, four hours of tests. We had had some pretty pretty uh in depth and some were were downright exhausted we had the 20 minute test that i finished with that i think you weren't allowed to use caffeine or nicotine for uh and i and i did have some little bit in my system from

earlier that um i believe that was to look at add or adhd is that correct can you talk about all the tests that we did today? And we're actually going to dive into that on a very personal level with my results. Well, thank you for the willingness to do that and to expose yourself. This is something that most people will never do. So I think that requires significant degree of maturity and courage. So thank you for that. We run a battery of tests looking at you

in basically three different aspects, biological, psychological, and social. So we have to put that in the context of your movie, right? The movie of your life. And I tell my students all the time, psychiatric evaluations are like writing the script of a movie. We really have to collect data, you know? So as we do this, we're going to be collecting some data from you in terms of what has happened in the past. So we want to see how your brain is working. We want to see what your coping skills are in terms of how you handle different situations and stress.

And we want to see how content you are with your social life, right? How that's functioning. And before we go into the tests, because we have tests, for example, the Cambridge Brain Sciences test that looks specifically at cognitive abilities. We look at the QB test that looks specifically at attention and impulsivity. We also looked at tests like the MCMI-4, which is a personality test that looks also at mental illness issues. We did a quality of life inventory. We do a SEL-90 that looks specifically at psychiatric symptoms. Then we did a brain map to try to correlate all those other tests to the brain map and see if there's any correlation.

For us, though, it's important to know a little bit more about you in terms of, okay, so what is happening in the movie of your life? If you had a couple of minutes just to tell us, this is what my life has been like. And I'm particularly interested on head injuries you got those and i'll tell you why in just a minute but but tell us a little bit more about you yeah i think um if there were traumatic experiences that i had as a child it was my parents fought all the time and uh you know not that didn't physically fight one another, but it was physical in the sense of plates were thrown. I remember the corded wall getting ripped or the corded phone

getting ripped out of the wall and thrown through a closet door. Cops getting called. And I have, you know, I have a sibling who's a year younger than me. And I just remember just seeing her like pretty mortified, pretty mortified in tears. And of course, that built a lot of rage inside. And I'd get in a lot of trouble in school. And so I enjoyed physical interaction. I fought a lot as a kid. Those were the first moments in my life where I felt peace, oddly enough.

And I think now learning about flow states and reading books like Stealing Fire and getting into Jamie Wheal and Stephen Kotler's work, it makes sense to me because I wasn't thinking about anything else. There were no problems other than what was in front of me. And played football since I was 10, loved button heads and getting dirty as a lineman. And then finished at Arizona State. And as I mentioned to you and people know on this podcast, I had a great deal of depression, I think a lot having to do with my childhood. And then also this almost comical chemical bath that I was washing myself with from anti-anxiety medication, as well as, you know, street drugs like cocaine and ecstasy and a lot of alcohol, just trying to numb.

And as I came clean from all that, after a suicide attempt, I started to get clear. And then I had a, I had new drive. You know, I mean, part of the big issue too was in my last year of, of going to ASU, I, I knew that I loved football. But looking forward, I didn't want to get a desk job. I didn't want, and again, I say this always, it's not to put down people who have desk jobs. I have a desk job now. But my point is that that was not a future I wanted for myself. And I certainly didn't want to do what my parents did, which was work on 100% commissions and have these high stress jobs

where finances control every aspect of happiness. And so I'm still wanting to be an athlete, still wanting to have some level of physical activity and camaraderie. I started training in mixed martial arts and my first striking coach, Vince Perez-Mazzola is in the house listening in. Shout out to Vince. Vince is a Jeet Kune Do instructor who learned under Dan Inosanto, of course, who learned under Bruce Lee. And he really gave me the picture of what martial arts could be. And I think that's crucial because a lot of guys that get into professional fighting and cage fighting or whatever you want to call it, no holds barred at the time, they just want to beat the shit out of people. And for me, there was an element of that. I very much wanted to hurt people. And I very much egoically wanted

to be the best at something. But at the same time, I was learning this idea of self-mastery through martial arts. And Vince, you were the guy that helped me with that big time. You planted that seed. And of course, I took many head injuries through my fight career. I think you alluded to some left temporal activity going on. And that reminded me of one fight in particular with Glover Teixeira, where I had mentioned before, either on the show or someone else's, that that's the only fight where I couldn't remember

how to get to the locker room after. And you would get an increased suspension from the medical director if you said something like, I don't know where the locker room is, right? So in order to not have the long layoff, I just made small talk with people as I bumped into them all along the way. My coach had already made his way back. And I don't know how long it took me, 20 or 30 minutes. But I mean, I got my ass whooped in that fight. And I just remember walking around with people like, yeah, that was a tough loss. That's the way it goes sometimes. And then I finally found my way back to the locker room. But for days, I had trouble sleeping. I was incredibly irritable. And rather than fasting and doing hyperbaric oxygen or anything that would help my brain, instead, I had cocaine and alcohol and shitty food that night.

So I don't imagine that I gave myself the best post-brain injury protocol for that particular fight. That was probably the worst loss that I took in the UFC. But there were many times in training with Cain Velasquez and other big-time heavyweights where I'd get dinged up and coach would recognize it in me and pull me and make me not spar or anything like that for a couple of weeks. So I would say there's quite a few head injuries. Even though I've never been knocked out cold. I've definitely, I've had my bell rung several times. You mentioned a suicide attempt

as a point in your life when things changed, where things became different. What was it about that incident that made you handle things differently? Well, for people who haven't heard or they're new to the show, you can refer to episode 12 as a solo cast where I go into great detail on this. I had taken all the last of my pills. I think I had like 10, 2 milligrams Xanax and 10, 10 milligram Valium and a few Norcos. And I remember putting them all on a glass and downing them. And then I drove to the top of parking lot seven at ASU and stripped down naked to jump. And the security guard, it was like 2 or 3 AM, he followed me up. He's like, what the hell is this dude? Where's he going? And I remember standing there and I had this wash over my body. And it was the first time

where I kind of felt something bigger than me talking to me saying like, hey, it's okay. You're going to be okay. Not yet. And then of course I hear the guy saying, hey, what are you doing up there? And he was like, oh, whoa, you're naked. Like split second, just dropped me back in reality. And I was like, shit. All right. I'm not. All right. I got to talk to this guy. So I threw my robe on and I walked down and all the medication. I don't know if it was working then. It calmed me down. But it certainly, I mean, that's the last I remembered.

I woke up in a hospital and my parents and my sister had flown in from California. This was here in Arizona, obviously. And I asked my mom, why are the nurses being such assholes? And she was like, well, you weren't very nice to them. And I was like, oh, okay. And, you know, so I spent, I think, like a week in what my mom calls the loony bin. And there was, you know, people there with real problems. And not that I didn't have my own problems, but there was a lot of people that i got to see who had been through a

lot who were looking at me like why the fuck are you here you know like you've got all your whole family's here you're an athlete you have an education you have so much going for you i don't understand why you're here and even though that didn't really set in at the time it started to creep in like oh okay i do have i do have the ball rolling in the right direction with a lot of things like that i have a lot of things to be gratitude or to have uh gratitude for and um i think i i gave me space i knew i didn't want to take medication and at that point i saw a psychiatrist and a psychologist the psychologist and i think i'd mentioned this before the podcast when i was seven i went to my first therapist and I really enjoyed him. And it was out in California. I felt like I had someone

I could talk to. So in my mind, I was looking forward to talking to the psychologist because that's the guy that I can iron shit out with. Whereas a psychiatrist, I thought he's just going to give me pills and I don't want that anymore. I really don't want to take stuff. And I had a close family member of mine who kind of went on an SSRI roller coaster and it didn't pan out well, even though she was able to get off everything. So thinking of that, of course, there was the curve ball where the psychologist I didn't resonate with and the psychiatrist was somebody who really shifted the way I thought about things. You know, he understood that I didn't want to take medicine and he showed me, I think, seven studies on fish oil in the brain.

And he was like, you can do this a different way if you want. And that's when I started paying attention to diet more and what I put into my body. And then from there, fighting was kind of the doorway for me to take care of myself because I knew in fight camp, I wasn't going to drink. I had a couple of different coaches that started working with me on how to quiet my mind in the fight. And of course, all those things translate outside of fighting, like breath work, mindfulness, things like that. And again, as I mentioned before the show, I had a boxing coach who was mexican and native american and he would take me to the reservation to work with plant medicines in a way

that uh that i'd never been exposed to before you know with respect and reverence and intention and that really started these big shifts and how i viewed the world and my life and and was very empowering for me, I think, going forward. Okay. So where are you now in your life right now? How do you feel in general? I think this is the best I've ever been on the home front with my family and not just my personal family, my wife and our son, with my nuclear family, both my parents who are divorced, my sister. I feel really good with all of my interactions with them. And when I go home and they're coming out, we're getting a house in a couple months, they're going to come out and help us move in.

And really looking forward to that. Work has been somewhat stressful. And I think I might have PTSD from my last job where I was fired and the 30K severance that I was promised was not given to me. I had all this panic about having to borrow money for a U-Haul to move back into my mom's garage, which is where we had moved from. And that's where I spent most of my fight career, living in my mom's detached garage, working at a strip club on the weekends to try to pay bills and so that flash came through my mind like shit this is what I have to do now and thankfully as that door shut the very next one opened and I got the job at Onnit where I work now and get to travel all over the place talking to brilliant minds like yourself thank you and so i have a um just a an excitement about life you know because it's fresh each time it's not like i sit down and do the same every day and there's a lot of paperwork or any of that i have a very cool job that allows me to to travel to meet new people to have interesting discussions and then you know

when i'm in the office i'm 20 yards from a gym. Onnit is a gym as well. So I get to work out, I get to play, I get to do fun stuff like martial arts across the street. Do you find yourself having found some contentment in your life? Oh, big time. Big time. Yeah. And that's another thing I think that the plant medicines have done for me fairly consistently is to give me a sense of contentment, to show me the things that I might not be seeing. Because I think, as with most people, I get consumed by what I don't have or what I want and the goal that's ahead and out in front of me. And then if I'm in the state of wanting, I'm not in the state of joy and being of what I already have and what I'm already doing.

And I think that is like a refresher course, the reminder for me to appreciate everything that I'm doing and everything that I have. Including appreciating yourself. Yeah, big time. Okay. Big time. All right, perfect. So you want to know a little more about your brain

and your psychology and all that? I certainly do. Okay, let me start by showing you some of the tests. The first test I'm going to show you is purely cognitive stuff, meaning we're looking at different aspects of your brain, and you're going to see that we measure different things. For example, this test here is measuring attention, right? So you can see that we did a test, the test was valid, and you can see that you have better attention

than most people, okay? So attention is fine. We didn't find any deficits with attention. Was this the final test that I took? No, this is probably one of the first ones you took. Could it be a little impact of caffeine in this? Maybe a little bit, but not to bring you up to 70%, though.

Your ability to use what we call deductive reasoning was perfect, actually better than most. You're like the 90% percentile in comparison to other people your age. When you look at your ability to use verbal reasoning, again, you're at 60%. That's pretty good. When you look at verbal short-term memory, it's normal, but in the lower range. And that is probably some frontal lobe. This actually could be traced back to some of your head injuries. Even though it's in a normal range range you're somebody who has some special qualities in terms of cognition so for you it's low okay because you're going to see that most everything is in the higher level right like you're working memory this is the ram memory if you were if you're

thinking of a computer this is where you store stuff for short periods of time to bring it back if you need it. So it does work fairly well. Episodic memory is excellent. Short-term memory again, what it has to do with space is normal, but a little bit in the lower range. Okay, here's where you start seeing something low. So what is this? This is response inhibition, meaning your ability to not respond. You're very quick to respond. It's like if the brakes of your brain don't work very well. It's like you're very eager, right? And this may have served you very well in fighting. Be first, not last. Exactly. So you're very quick, but by being very quick, you make a lot of mistakes, right?

So there's a little bit of impulsivity, if you may, on your testing here. I noticed that with my financial decisions. Yeah. Then your mental rotation, meaning your ability to manipulate representations in your mind and come back with solutions

you were somewhat low there too uh and those those were i think the only couple of things your your visual spatial processing is perfect uh your planning is very good your working memory visually speaking is probably a little better than your verbal short-term memory. So that's actually pretty good. So response inhibition was an area where we had some issues, as well as your mental rotation, which is actually, if I were to do this with a lot of large populations, we will always find something.

So in general, your brain is working okay, except for the breaks of your brain. You have a tendency to impulsively react. Decision-making is a little impulsive on that end. Okay. So let me open another test. This is actually your perception of your functioning, right? And you perceive yourself as doing fairly well, okay, in terms of attention, emotional regulation, flexibility, which kind of matches what we have, okay? You actually don't recognize this is the inhibitory control. This is the only one that didn't match with your report, okay? So you did have a little bit of problem with impulse control,

but you're not consciously recognizing that. It just automatically happens to you, okay? Then we have, this is really fascinating. You're extremely smart. This is actually your ability to problem solve, right? It measures half of your IQ. IQ has two components, problem solving and verbal IQ. This is the problem solving. Normally, verbal IQ will be higher than this, right? So you score pretty high. You're scoring almost 130, 127. So it's between 117 and 131, which is in the superior, the very superior range of intelligence. You're in the 96th percentile. And that's probably

something that has allowed you to succeed, that despite all the stuff that's been thrown at you, including drugs and violence in the home when you were growing up and all of that, that's never been affected. Your smarts have always been there. You're a good thinker. You're a good problem solver. That's always been there with you. So that's actually biologically based.

You didn't make this happen. It just happened. It's yours. So, okay. it's yours okay this actually matches what you just told us this is your quality of life indicator you're very very happy with your life you see when it comes to

the range of satisfaction the satisfaction scales you're pretty much on the right side which is you're pretty satisfied with most aspects of your life. Whether it's health or play or learning, love, friends, children, home, everything. You scored the lowest of the positive was on creativity. Yeah, I can explain why. Some of the examples were hobbies like learning to play guitar and things like that. And those are things, I mean,

I'm actually going to see one of my close friends, Porongi, up in Sedona, who's a beautiful musician. And he gave me this Native American double flute. And I have yet, I've probably played it like 10 times. So it's finding the time to do those things because I do care about them,

but I'm not doing it. That's why I didn't score that highly because I haven't created the space to get creative. In terms of psychiatric symptoms, let me take your back up here. You're pretty normal. We didn't find any significant psychiatric symptoms, either physically, obsessivecompulsive, depression, anxiety, hostility, psychoticism. I mean, everything is going pretty normal, which is kind of the middle here. So we don't have any concerns reported by you in terms of psychiatric symptoms, okay? Which is pretty good. This is another test. This is actually a little more complicated test. This is one that's actually specific for attention deficit disorder and impulse control. You see here,

you have no hyperactivity. So you can stay right in the middle. And for somebody who has impulsivity issues, it's amazing to find that you're not restless. You didn't have any restlessness during the testing, which is actually pretty good. I mean, like, for example, if I get a child who has attention deficit disorder, the kid's going to be, you're going to see squiggles all over the place here.

Dan, for those that were just listening, if you watch the YouTube video, you're going to be able to see all this on the YouTube video. We got Ryan recording right now what we're looking at on the screen here. And when we look at the attention, you see, this is attention and impulse control. You're scoring pretty normal on almost every one of the measures, right? So this test is not supportive of any attention deficit disorder or hyperactivity, okay?

These are just technical things that I have to look into. Attention and smell was pretty good too so so I wouldn't say that this test will be supportive of attention deficit disorder okay now let me show you your brain map the brain map is kind of interesting and that the way all right I to make it like that. All right. Right here. OK. You can see here, you get in this slow brain.

Well, let me orient you to this. Each one of these different columns is a different brain wave. And when we measure brain waves, we measure them from very slow to very fast, right? So we can see that there's some excessive slow wave activity on top of the brain here. Okay. Everything that is in green means that your brain and other people's brains of the same age are comparably equal, right?

Okay. So there's a lot of green too, but you can see here, right temporal, no, left temporal and right temporal areas. Both of those areas are showing excessive activity, right? So why is this important? Because, and you can see that the alphas are underrepresented because of this excessive high beta, right? So what this means is that the localization of this is going to be reflected in potential deficits. Even though in your particular case, the only deficits we find are some memory, which has to do with temporal lobes, and some response inhibition that has to do with the frontal part of the brain.

So we can make a case and correlate some of your symptoms, especially related to head injury to what happens in the brain wave mapping. Now if I take you down to a different part here, we actually run a concussion index, which is an acute evaluation to see if your brain is behaving as if someone who just had a concussion. And the answer is no. You have a pretty good response, no evidence of recent concussion, right? Which kind of supported by the fact that you haven't had a concussion. But look at this.

Let me see if I can make this a little bigger. This one is actually an analysis of comparing your brain to people who have sustained head injuries, right? The one on the left side. Let me see. And you can see that it says that there's a 97.5% probability that you have sustained head injuries of moderate intensity. Oh, yeah. So this matches your life history, right? Yeah.

So why is this important? Because we have several factors together here. One is the fact you've had multiple head injuries. The fact that your cognitive testing is actually pretty good, and that your intelligence is showing high levels, that you cannot afford to get hit in the head anymore, right? That continued concussions could cause more problems. Now, you also have done a lot of healthy things over the years in terms of nutrition, you know, medications that, not medications, but natural substances that can allow your brain to recover, okay? Because if you want to understand the brain, you really need to think of it as the perfect computer.

It's a big mess of fat with a lot of cables in it, right? And it's a computer that actually is pre-programmed from the time we're born, okay? It changes itself as we grow and adapts to the environment. So think about a computer like that, right? That is creating its own programs and then it changes the programs depending on what's coming from the outside. And it's constantly changing.

When I was in medical school in the late 70s, we were told that you're born with a number of neurons and you hope to die with the same number, right? I remember being told that growing up. Yeah, that's not the case. We now know that the brain is always repairing itself. It's always changing. It's a constantly dynamic computer that is adjusting itself.

It's making new connections. If you lose a connection, you may make another one to a different pathway. It's really fascinating how that works and how that is actually the organ that allows you to adapt to different situations. So we have to treasure that little machine, right? Yeah.

And if you think about it, I mean, it's a very small piece. I think it's a couple of pounds. But it utilizes 20% of all your energy. So just to give you an idea how important the brain is. Last but not least, I'm going to show you your psychological profile. Your psychological profile is actually pretty average, if you may. You can see here when we look at different types of personality patterns, and you see everything from here up has nothing to do with pathology, right?

It has to do with our styles of dealing with whatever life is throwing at us. So you have a tendency to respond to life in a very intense, we call it histrionic, very intense way. You can be loud, you can be intense, you can be somewhat reactive, if you may. So you have a tendency to show your emotions when you're feeling quite intensely. Oh yeah, that's spot on.

We also see that you're just turbulent. I mean, your personality is intense. And there's a part of you, you see, where it says you're antisocial, that it means that, and I wouldn't call it antisocial in your case. I would call it asocial. You can isolate empathy probably, meaning that you cannot show regard for other people's emotions under certain circumstances.

And that makes sense because you're a fighter, right? You had to be in front. We see this type of situation in a lot of military people, right? Where you're basically isolating empathy so you don't have to make yourself vulnerable, right? So it's very difficult to be fighting with someone that you feel sorry for. Yeah. I mean, that you feel sorry for. Yeah. That would be almost impossible. So you have to block that and you have the ability to do that. When we look at severe personality pathology, we didn't find anything there.

And of course, we didn't find any significant psychiatric pathology. We looked for anxiety, somatic symptoms, bipolar, persistent depression. We did find an elevated drug use that has more to do with your past, not with the present. You actually don't have symptoms of PTSD. They may feel like it, but you don't have the full-blown. And we all have some of that. We all have our own recollection of some events that were particularly important in our lives that actually that might be more of a normal response, right? To bring the memory back so it can remind you of how and what kind of tools you have available to deal with that. So that's a normal secretory of memory, if you may. Okay. of memory if you may okay but again nothing we didn't find anything psychotic or major depression

or schizophrenia or anything like that in your presentation of course you didn't present with any of those symptoms but the test is actually looking specifically at that well that's good so if i if i had to make an assessment and of course you're not my patient, so we're doing this more for learning than necessarily for treatment. You have a pretty balanced profile, okay? I mean, for someone who has sustained all the experiences you've had and you've come ahead of that, I think it's a tremendously encouraging presentation in terms of, yes, people can change. Yes, people can do things differently. Yes, people can get into drugs and suicide attempts and all of that and come ahead. So that's the lesson from all of this.

It's not necessarily what's wrong with Kyle, but how has Kyle utilized his own resources and the outside resources to allow himself to be functional and adaptive and content, right? We're always talking about happiness, for example, right? Happiness is, guys, it's more like a big prize, right, that you get once in a while, but that's not a constant state of mind. Because my patients come here all the time and they always say, I want to be happy. Sometimes I say, well, I want to be happy too. But the reality is, why don't we move it down to content? Let's help you be content and then find happiness in certain aspects of your life, because we're kind of chasing happiness as a goal. And that shouldn't be the ultimate purpose, right? Because at the end of the day, and these guys

have heard me say this many times, you are going to bed with you every night, and you wake up with you every morning. That is never going to change, okay? That's one reality that is consistent, is always there. And we forget us, right? Sometimes we forget to stop and say, okay, what about me? What about me taking care of me the same way I take care of my daughter, the same way I take care of my wife, the same appreciation that I give to the people that I work with? So when you start thinking in terms of my wife, the same appreciation that I give to the people that I work with.

So when you start thinking in terms of my job with me is as important as my job with others, that's when you start realizing, you know, I have to take care of myself. Yeah. Because if I don't have me, I have nothing. Right? And again, you're going to have you until you die. Right? Yeah. And only when you take care of yourself can you really put everything into taking care of others.

Exactly. And I think that we socially and culturally are given a different message, right? Give, give, give. Take care of other people. You know, your reward is going to be later on. And I find people getting very angry about that because people are always asking, so what about me?

And they're almost ashamed of asking the question, you know, how do I take care of me? So part of what we do here is to try to help people identify that they're as valuable as the others, you know, and that they can do for themselves so they can do for others and balance it out probably a little better. Yeah.

Yeah. And you guys have a number of different things that you guys are doing here for treatments. Can you dive into some of that? Yeah. We've always been at the forefront of trying to apply newer treatments. So, for example, since 2010, we've been doing transcranial magnetic stimulation. Let me tell you something about psychiatric treatments. A new psychiatric treatment comes into the market, and everybody wants to use it for everything, right?

So it's like, okay, if I get this new tool, it should take care of everything. No, no, no, no. Tools have specific purposes. So transcranial magnetic stimulation is a very useful treatment for certain types of depression. And some people respond to it. Some people don't. But it's an option, right? We talked about options before. I direct a ketamine clinic. We find ketamine fascinating in a lot of different ways that I think goes beyond just the issue of treating depression, for example, or treating anxiety.

Because we believe that ketamine has a quality in repairing the brain. Those connections in the brain that are deficient, whether it's in PTSD or anorexia or depression, seem to change over time when you use ketamine. And now some of the other hallucinogenic natural substances are being studied by NIH specifically because of that, that it goes beyond just the reduction of symptoms, but repairing the brain itself. So that is really fascinating. So we do the ketamine clinic. We do traditional psychiatric treatment. We have therapists who will provide mostly cognitive behavioral approaches. We refer a lot out for other services.

And we also do research. We're doing some research right now on ADHD children with aggression, trying to find out how we can bring that aggression down with certain new medications. We're doing an OCD trial and a new kind of fascinating quasi-psychiatric medication. It's not in the market yet, so we're doing an OCD trial and a new kind of fascinating quasi-psychiatric medication. It's not in the market yet, so we're doing that research. We're starting in a schizophrenia study with adolescents.

I particularly like to work with kids. I work in the hospital. We have a large group of us from this group that works in the hospital. So we have 60 kids in a residential facility and another 35 to 40 in the acute care facility. A lot of suicide, violent behavior, psychosis. I mean, serious illnesses. Psychiatric hospitals are not what they used to be 30 years ago. People just go in and out,

mostly for the acuteness of the situation. And then we try to get them into other services. So we're multifaceted, if you may. We're always looking at what else is coming out, what else is new that we can provide to our patients. That's very cool. And you guys are doing a lot of teaching. Is that correct? Yes.

I have a lot of students with me which kind of keep me honest uh students are tough uh but at the same time they're they force you to to be honest right and and what i find and value the most on the teaching part is the ability to give them a more holistic perspective of what they're dealing with i mean psychiatry is one of those areas of medicine that has not gotten a lot of respect in medicine in general is always being kind of looked at as with respect and fear because i don't know people think that we read minds or something. We don't. There's a couple of questions about that. But we understand behavior and people feel very threatened when you understand behavior

because they think that you're trying to understand them all the time. But it happens with my friends too, though. I mean, if I go to a social situation, they're wondering, why is he looking at me? Is he analyzing me? Yeah. Put that notepad down. I said, no, I only do it when I get paid. I don't do it socially. That's awesome. Where do you see psychiatry in general moving in the future? I think psychiatry is going back to understanding. I think that genetics is going to have a tremendous impact on understanding serious illness.

I'm writing for a blog and now actually working on the paper that I need to get Vince for a new blog that is coming up. And it's actually in Spanish, and it's going to be about normal behavior versus abnormal behavior. And the problem is that culturally speaking, we tend to look at abnormal behavior as being psychiatric illness. Two different things. We all have abnormal behaviors that move us away from our values and our principles, okay? That's abnormal, but that's not necessarily pathological, right? For people to start wondering if there's something wrong with me because I'm doing this too much. So we always have to think that psychiatry and medicine in general is about how much and how often, right? How much of that do you have? How often is happening? And number three, how much is it affecting you? So we need

to move away from boxing people into categories of illnesses, right, and provide more understanding. So I think that understanding is going to come back to psychiatry in terms of I'm not treating an illness, I'm treating a person. And this person happened to have an environment and they happened to have functioning. And we have to see how illness makes them not adaptive and how we can help them be adaptive again.

And instead of saying, okay, I want to take your symptoms away. But you see, that's no different than having pain, right? If you have chronic pain, you can say, well, take this pill and the pain is going to go away. No, the patient has to learn a lot of stuff, whether it's to live with some pain, to improve their functionality, so they can feel that they have some control over their lives.

It's too easy to take painkillers, sit on the couch and watch TV, right? We've seen that happen. Exactly. So the whole process, whether it's pain, whether it's diabetes, whether it's diabetes, whether it's obesity, whatever it is, it requires that we provide the patients with options and that we bring the patient as a partner. Because I mean, I can tell you how many times, I cannot tell you how many times I have to tell people,

or women or men, how many pills would it take for your husband to stop beating you up? I mean, pills don't do that. And people get depressed because of that. But you have to look at the psychological and cultural issues. And furthermore, I think that we psychiatrists do a good job on not being judges, right? So not judging people is rule number one. You have to be as neutral as you can. Yeah. And it's not easy. I mean, sometimes you see things that are difficult to not judge, right? Or to not have feelings about, but you still have to maintain focus on what you're doing, which is the person in front of me is suffering and is dysfunctional. And how can we

make that person suffer less and more functional? Yeah, I think that's a good rule of thumb for people in general. You know, if you want to be a good friend, it doesn't mean I'm going to diagnose and treat somebody. But if I'm to be of service to somebody as a friend or a partner or a husband or a father, it should start with non-judgment and just being there for that person in the best way that I can show up. The closest we can get to no judgment, the better. I think that we tend to judge because we're afraid. We tend to judge because we want to protect ourselves. We want to judge because we don't want to be part of something that is negative.

And again, as I said before, we get too much into why and too little into how. And when I interview patients, I very seldom use the word why. More often I use the word how. How is this happening versus why is this happening? Because why forces you to judge. So how, how come is a more benign way of inviting people to express themselves than to ask why. Because when you ask why, you're asking for a judgment, right? Yeah. That makes sense.

Yes. The simple details of training, right? 30 years in the game probably helps that. Yeah, that you kind of learn to listen. And I think that the listening and the empathic understanding and the non-judgmental approach needs to come back to psychiatry a little more. Because psychiatrists now are being perceived more as people who prescribe medications.

And that's sad. And again, it's sad not only because of the perception but because a lot of psychiatrists feel comfortable there right that as long as i'm just running prescriptions and making diagnosis i'm doing my job and i think is our job is more complicated than that you know so understanding comes back as a consistent word, right? And understanding that we can give back to people. I love it. Well, you're doing it all. And Vince tells me that you're getting ready to start a podcast, both in Spanish and English.

We're going to be starting a podcast, I think, October 3rd. We're doing our first recordings. And probably the following week, we're going to be going live. We're going to do one in English called The Only You. And as you can say, I'm very focused on you, right? Helping people understand themselves. And the other one's in Spanish called Solo Tú. So it's pretty much the same translation, the same concept.

That's awesome. Well, I think this show will come out probably end of October or first week in November. So this your podcast should be out. We'll link to it in the show notes to drive traffic and get people to listen in. Really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me here. Great.

Is there a website people can find you? Obviously, you're located in Arizona. Where can people find you online? Yeah, we have one that is theonlyyou.net, and the other one is solo2.mx. So those are the two sites that we have. And, of course, we're going to be on Instagram and YouTube, and Vince is making sure that all those things happen.

Awesome. It's a great guide. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Patino. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thank you guys for tuning in to today's show with Dr. Patino. I want to hear your thoughts around this. I definitely want to hear your thoughts around this.

So please leave me a message at Kingsboo on Twitter or Instagram. And certainly check out my website, kingsboo.com, where you'll get my complete list of supplements by leaving your email and you'll get a monthly newsletter, including a welcome letter with everything that I'm into right now from the books that I'm reading, trip reports,

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