Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #127 Laird Hamilton

Episode Date: November 22, 2019

Laird John Hamilton is an American big-wave surfer, co-inventor of tow-in surfing, and an occasional fashion and action-sports model. I travel to his home and get his back story, we talk training methodologies and XPT Life.   Connect with Laird| Website - https://www.lairdhamilton.com/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/LairdLife/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lairdhamiltonsurf/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/lairdlife XPT - https://www.xptlife.com/     Show Sponsors| Comrad Socks www.comradsocks.com/kyle (for 20% off)    Concept 2 http://www.concept2.com/   Onnit - Plant Based Protein Get 10% off all foods and supplements at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/kyle/   Fit For Service Mastermind | Open Enrollment Now Open aubreymarcus.com/fitforservice   Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Website | https://www.kingsbu.com/ ( Supplement List & Newsletter) Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk Get 10% off at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/podcast/   Subscribe to Kyle Kingsbury Podcast iTunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY

Hello, friends. Today's guest is a very special person. And I know I've said that before, but I really mean it this time. No, actually, I always mean it when I say that about the guest. And I think all my guests are special. But as I said, this one is fucking special. And it's none me talk about that a bit before on the show. I think they've run a couple ads. They have a brand new app on iPhone and Android, for that matter, where they coach you through breath work and a lot of their practices. But I got to do this XPT event for a few days out in Malibu and get a crash course for 72 hours on everything they've been dialed in on, from breath practices to the underwater training to co2 retention to the hot and cold therapy and how they layer that in to their practices to wake up the body to warm up the nervous system the ways that they work out which are low impact and anyone can do from professional athletes all the way to people who are unwell you know just everyone in

between can benefit from their practices and laird's someone I've wanted to get on the show for a long time. Obviously, he's a big name. He's got, you know, all the accolades and all the things that people would look at and say, that's a guy you should have on your show. But the truth is, I'm not just a fan of Laird. I've learned a lot from this man. I've learned a lot from his wife, Gabby Reese. I've learned a lot from their program, XPT.

And anytime I'm out in LA, I always make a point to get up there and go train with them because I'm constantly learning from them. And the cool thing about Laird is he is one of the most innovative people I've ever met. And in addition to that, he's a jack of all trades. He's probably an ace of many trades.

He's obviously one of the best surfers of all time, but he's a family man. He's a father. He's in a house full of women. He's got a lot of knowledge to extract, and he's dialed in in all areas from the physical to the mental, emotional to the spiritual. And it was an absolute treat to sit down with him in his home in Malibu and finally get this podcast out to you guys. There's a number of ways you can support this podcast. Number one, click subscribe. That way you never lose an episode. Number two, leave us a five-star rating with one or two ways that the show has benefited you and changed your life. Number three, support

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Well, the reason is, believe it or not, we have a lot of vegan and vegetarian supporters. And a lot of them, even people who eat meat, just don't do well with whey. I don't know what it is. You know, generally speaking, it's a lactose issue or a casein issue, but in whey protein, some people have an allergy there as well. So if you're looking to boost protein and you want an excellent flavored protein that also contains every essential amino acid, which is a huge deal for people who are vegan and vegetarian. If you have mostly plant-based food in your diet, it's hard to get all your essential amino acids, but we worked around that. We've got a product now that uses a number of

different proteins all in one to cover the bases so you can still get the most out of your plant-based protein. You can go to onnit.com slash Kyle for 10% off our brand new plant-based protein and any other supplement or food product that we sell. Last but not least, I want to tell you all about Fit for Service. Fit for Service is something that you can check out on the Aubrey Marcus podcast. I just launched a podcast with the three other coaches, myself, obviously Aubrey, Eric Godsey, and Caitlin Howe. We dive deep into the hardest challenge we went through this year, the greatest discovery we went through this year, and of course, the most transformational experience we went

through this year. Many of those happened in Fit for Service. And we take a deep dive into that. I will link to that episode in the show notes, as well as link to Aubrey's signup list, because now we have open enrollment for 2020. This is a year-long event. If you want to dip your feet in the shallow end, you can sign up for one trimester, but we tackle all things that are important to us at Onnit and between Aubrey and I through total human optimization. We focus on the physical, the mental, the emotional, and the spiritual all wrapped into one. We have a meetup each trimester where we go through some really transformational experiences together. And I'm talking not just among the coaches that I mentioned, but some of the outlying coaches that come through, like the great musician and friend of mine,

Porongi, Dr. Dan Engel, Dr. Craig Conover, pretty much everybody that helps move the bar for Aubrey and I, we include in these events, and they're transformative to say the least. I've gotten a lot out of this experience as a coach, and I know you guys can too as members. So head over to AubreyMarcus.com and search around for Fit for Service, or just click the link in the show notes, and you'll be able to go right to the landing page. Thank you guys for tuning in. Let us know what you think about my dude, Laird Hamilton, and thank you guys for tuning in. Let's talk a bit about flow, because people have this idea, like i'm buddies with a guy named andy stump who was a navy seal and he's you know red bull wingsuit guys jumped out with oxygen masks at fucking 30 000 feet squirrel suits all that stuff base jump and he he just you know after stealing

fire we come to understand like this isn't you're not an adrenaline junkie you don't have a death wish you are chasing a flow state which is this wonderful beautiful sensation of stillness timelessness and it also kicks off all these amazing neurochemicals that we absolutely fucking love and enjoy and like that is the thing that we chase yeah um you've you've surfed some of the biggest waves you're constantly looking for new things like is that the draw or is it to continue to push the boundaries? How does that go back and forth between... Because you're still...

The last time I was here, I interviewed your wife, Gabby, and I wanted to get you on, but you had a place you had to go because there were some waves coming in, right? So that's still in you and it's really rad to see because you take care of yourself that you can still do it. Um, is that, I don't even know where I'm fucking going with that. Is, is that just the, is there a never ending chase there or is it just something that, that now that you've experienced it, it's something that you don't want to not experience again? Uh, you know, I mean, I think it's probably a little of all of it. I think there's pieces of all of it that keep you driving, right? Not wanting to lose something that you've gotten. Maybe you've never fully gotten what you potentially think you could get. So the constant pursuit. I mean, one thing about the ocean, you know, it's not like the sky. You just eventually you can, there's, you know, you can always go to 58,000 feet in the plane, but we can't always have a giant wave. We can't, you know, we can't, it's not a fixed thing.

So that kind of the elusiveness of it is part of the attraction, um, as well. I always used to resent, uh, you know, Oh, you're an adrenaline junkie because somehow I felt like that's a disclaimer to say that, you know, that you're not intelligent, like somehow that that's just, Oh, you're a meathead and you're just adrenaline junkie, just looking for that high. And I always thought that that was kind of so limiting for us because we're not, I mean, adrenaline is a side, is one of the byproducts of putting yourself in the situation and you can harness that and get incredible strength and intelligence. And I mean, you know, when you're fully adrenalized, you're highly aware. I mean, the flow state for me makes so much sense why, and I believe that we were probably

all in flow state when we were in nature more and we were primal. We had to be, we had to have an ability to see and move and do things in a way to survive in nature because it's so brutal. So I, and I think we've lost that. And so those of us that have the opportunity to experience it again, seek it out and, and really grasp it. But, uh, but one thing for sure is, is the, that it's the situation demands to put you in that flow state, right? That that's the optimum. And what you get from that, I mean, you know, that's, I think it's one of the, you know, it's one of the fountains of youth. Like if you want to say it was one of the fountains of youth, I go, well, flow state for

sure would be one of them. And I, and I, and I don't know if it's because the, the consequences of dying or make you feel more alive. And then the result is that you're more alive or not, but there's something, there's a correlation between the relationship of, of those two. And, and, but flow state is, is, uh, you know, that's, that's something I, I, that, and there's different levels of it, obviously. I mean, there's, it's a spectrum, like a flow state spectrum of, and the deeper and the more intimate it is, I think the more effort and time has been put in. So I think it, you know, they talk about 10,000 hours or whatever, and it's really

just seems to be when it goes from conscious decision-making into, into unconscious decision-making where you don't have to, you know, you're not thinking about the next move you're going to do and everything. You just automatically are doing those things. It becomes reflex because you've changed it just like Bruce Lee, right? Exactly. If you're thinking about it, it's fucking too late. Way too late. Well, that brain moves at 125 and the subconscious is moves at like 30,000 times that speed, like crazy. You got light speed and you got, you know, you got highway speed. I mean, yeah, it's, and I think those are the, those are the difference, but you know, I, I think we've only begun to understand it, you know, just cause we're getting

science, we're starting to connect the two and see the result. But, but for sure there's an adrenaline aspect to it. You're drawn to that, um, part of it because it makes you feel alive. Part of it is because it's that what you said where there's a timeless moment where there's no, you know, I always talk about surfing. It's interesting. It's one of the things that you know what's happening behind you by looking ahead. And if you really know how to see the water and what's happening, you know what's happening behind. You just know, you can just tell by what's happening in front. And, and I described that, you know, it's like, and there's no beginning and no end. It's just a continuation where you stop is, is where you start the next time, but there's no, like, it's kind of, there's a timeless aspect

and there's a timeless aspect, I think the flow state too. I think that's, those are inner wound. Yeah. And it definitely seems like, I mean, you can be in flow handling emails. You can be in flow in a lot of ways, but it definitely seems like the more that's on the line, the greater the requirement to be in flow. Because if I'm in my head thinking about anything else, any distractions at all, something my wife said to me, something I have due the next day, if there's anything else, or if there's doubt, if there's anything where I'm that negative monkey mind wants to chatter, I'm fucked. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be me falling on the bunny slopes on a mountain. It could be, you know, me not being able to get up on my board on a really small wave.

And that's just the consequence. Or it could be- Big one. I can die. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and obviously fighting, and, and obviously fighting is going to do that. Fighting is going to, you know, the consequences of you not watching what's going on, you're going to get cracks, you know? So again, I think anytime there's a consequence, and like you said, the greater the consequence, the more everything's turned up. Cause just the, that's how the system works, especially under threat. It's just like, hey, if death is one of the consequences and it's real obvious, like, hey, I slip, I fall, I die, everything's on.

And it doesn't get more on. It doesn't go more. There's nothing else that we really can do that can turn it more on than that. Then because that's the most precious thing we have. Everything else is kind of a luxury after living, right? First we're alive and then it's like, okay, we have the luxury to, you know, do what we want when we're alive. But. Yeah. And I think the beautiful thing about putting ourselves in those high stakes situations is that it really has the ability to kind of quiet the noise of all the other bullshit that happens in everyday waking consciousness it just yeah sets it down a couple octaves you're like ah okay that really and the priority and the

prioritization of what's important you just kind of you get it you get those and you kind of reprioritize them oh yeah this is really not that much but you know not worth it to get worked up over that or that or that or that just shifts your, your, your psyche, which I think is good for them. I think more people need to feel that state. I think it'd be a better world of people. If first of all, there's a certain level of humility. I think that, that is demanded of you when you really, uh, are in full assessment of what's going on and where we are and what we're, you know, just being alive, that when you're really aware of it and how, you know, how fragile life is and how, you know, how quick death happens and all that, you just, it brings you, as soon as you kind of

leave the I'm invincible mentality that you have when you're 20 and full of testosterone, and you read the reality of like, you know, hey, this is living some dangerous shit. Put you in a better frame of mind. Well, how old are you now? I'll be 56 in a couple months. Dude, man, you're a specimen. And I remember, you know. Well, look who's talking. You're the specimen. No, no, not at all. I mean, even in the pool, you know, I remember doing the training. One of the first times that I came here to do the training with you guys, I was doing the farmer's walks in the deep end. Oh, yeah. And you were super encouraging, you know, but I remember I could only make it one width of the pool and then I had to come up for air. And then I think by the second day, I could go down and back once. And, you know, again, super encouraging from you.

And then somebody was like, yeah, Laird can do that eight times. And I was like, fuck. Lairs. But that's time. But that's like everything. You know, it's just time, time in and also, too, part of it's comfort. You know, the first time you do it, you're like freaking out. And then the second time, you're freaking out less.

And then the third. And then, you know, and then the 10,000th time you do it, you're like, oh, freaking out. And then the second time, you're freaking out less. And then the third, and then, you know, and then the 10,000th time you do it, you're like, oh, here we are again. You're going to do this to me. You know, your body's like, oh, you're going to subject me to this. Yeah, you get more situational awareness is definitely calming. For sure. But let's talk about that.

Let's talk about all the work you've had to do because you've had some really fucking gnarly injuries. Yes. Talk about how you have pieced yourself back together and put yourself in a position to where you still can do the things that you love at this age. Which is the most important thing. And look the way you look, you know, like that's... Well, that's, I mean, I think the biggest thing about wanting to kind of be, well, first of all, wanting to enjoy, you know, one of my best friends was 80, 84. He just passed away last year, Mr. Wildman. And, uh, and he could do everything to the end, that's one thing, but you don't want to be

stopped by not being able to, I think that would be something a lot more dangerous to be stopped. Like you can't, and injuries teach you that I think throughout the, when you've been hurt enough times, when you kind of go, well, am I going to be able to do it again? Or is it this thing going to get better? Or am I, you know, I think that's a big, uh, a big driving force. Just am I going to, uh, am I going to be able to, uh, and also to just sanity, just, just to, you know, you feel better when you're tired, you just feel better. You just, you're just, you're more amendable. You're just, you're a nicer person. You're just better with your family, with your friend. In life, you're just better. Food's better. Sleep's better.

And to tire you out, especially if you've been doing high volumes of activity for your life, just takes high volumes of activity, unless you're undermining with taking shitty care of yourself and staying up all night and doing stuff like that. And that makes you tired too. But the repercussions, different kind of tired, right? And the repercussions are, are something. And I think, so that's been, um, wanting to continue to be able to do the things that, that, you know, that you, that you love, like love doing and, and knowing that it's a little bit of also your, your remedy,

like it's a remedy, like it's a remedy for, uh, for yourself, you know, to be, to do just, to be more still, like you can be more still, uh, and without, without it, because you go through times when maybe you're not in the, in the flow and then you see the results of that. And, and it's, it's never good. And you don't, you know, you don't, I don't like the guy that I am, uh, when I'm not, you know, when I don't have high output, I don't, I don't, I don't like that. It's, it's not somebody I respect and it's not somebody I want to be. And so I'm like, how do I, you know, and it's a pretty simple solution. I mean, I'm fortunate that it's, you know, it's in my work, but it's a simple solution. Just get tired. Like, how do I, you know, and it's a pretty simple solution. I mean, I'm fortunate that it's, you know, it's in my work, but it's a simple solution.

Just get tired. Like, how do you, and, and, and, you know, and because of the boredom that sets in with repetition, you know, I don't love, and the body's actually an adaptation kind of takes away from the thing you do the same, you know, you run the same mile every day for 30 years. At the end of 30 years, that mile has got nothing. He's not giving you anything. His only, if anything, is undermining your health. But, you know, the first year was awesome, right? So it's just, so we have to keep, I think we have to keep changing it up mentally to be stimulated, but then, and then also physically to, to have the, you know, to have the benefits too. So that keeps us searching, right?

We're always like, hey, how do I make this more fun or how do I make this? And part of it is you get, enjoy the suffering, right? Like part of it's that part, like being a beginner and doing something new. Okay, you're not good at it. It's a lot more taxing on your system, all of those things. But those are all the things that, that have, uh, all the

benefits. That's where all the benefits come from. And, uh, you know, I think we were talking earlier today during training and something about, it's like, you know, I wish it was a different world. I wish it was a different universe. Maybe I don't, but it's, but if, you know, the fact is, is that I wish it was a different universe in the sense of that you don't have to suffer and, and do things that are uncomfortable and new and hard. And the sense of that you don't have to suffer and and do things that are uncomfortable and new and hard and you know you don't have to do all that stuff and then you can just sit back and be in shape and everything's great but it's just doesn't be fucking boring yeah well that's right it'd be in another way in another way aubrey talks about that like the game of life if you play a video game and you've got the little game genie or

whatever it is that allows you to have unlimited lives unlimited bullets bullets, unlimited everything, you might enjoy that for 15 minutes. And you're like, this game fucking sucks. It's too easy. And you don't want to play it again, right? That's true. Especially with our nature. With our nature. I think we're incapable of handling it that way.

We're just not built that way. That's not how the system was designed. So I think we have to go with what we're dealt. We're, we're, we're dealt something that needs to, needs effort, needs, you know, you need discomfort, need, need suffering. I mean, it's like, Hey, you know, you want to eat every day, but fasting is beneficial. It's like, Hey, I want to do it, but you know, Hey, want to do my same routine, but you know, break it up. It's like all of that. So let's, let's jump into xbt yeah experience i'm not sure how many i was talking with darren only in about that i don't even know how many

years ago that was i got linked up with you guys through cali stirrette yeah and uh our good buddy the doc and absolutely uh i came out to one of your events you guys filmed i think for outside network something like that yeah yeah. Yeah. And it was, I was just blown away by the experience and I've had the fortune to be able to come over here and train with you guys since. And it's been really cool to watch it evolve. And obviously with the conversation we've been having, it's not a mistake. Like that's going to, when I come here in December or when I come here in 2020, I'm going to see it continue to evolve. What was the impetus for starting this? Because a lot of people who get into this get into it for themselves. And for you, you had a life of sports, a life of nature, a life of flow,

a life of all these things that mattered to you. And obviously, at the level that you've been at you've been able to meet some of the other greats in all of their fields and same with Gabby who's an amazing athlete right like so I think what you've put together here is probably the most comprehensive thing that I've ever witnessed from a health and wellness mental emotional, because you give tools across the board from the breath work to the contrast therapy of ice baths and hot saunas. And they're really cold and really hot. Like you were telling me your sauna gets up to 250. It was 230 when I was in there. And I was like, yeah, this is no joke. This is no joke. It's not, I'm not going to sit for this. I'm not going to be in here for an hour. No, like no doubt about it. Right.

But talk about what really, why did you guys decide to do this? Well, it, you know, it, it started actually from one of Gabby's friends who we, it was, it was kind of having a life of its own. It was not, we had, we were, we were building a community. So we were building a community. So we were building a community. We had a, we had a community, uh, uh, kind of evolved, you know, kind of growing out of it just because we were doing it and friends would come and then, and then, and that was, and that's a critical piece of it, obviously. I mean, the success of a lot of these different programs comes really out of out of a need for community and a fulfillment

of that need for community and so uh that was happening and and and we had been approached kind of a couple different times to do some stuff around fitness and hey do a workout and it was like you do a work another workout from by another person like you know just didn't seem it wasn't authentic uh and then and then, and then, you know, and then Gabby's friend, Jennifer just goes, Hey, well, why don't you just do something off of what you guys are already doing? And, and we were like, well, that, yeah, that mean if we're gonna do anything, that's what we should do because it's authentic. Then it's like, we're not just trying to think up of a program that'll be, you know, that people will like versus something that we're

doing. We're living with it. We're, and then, and then that makes it, um, a lot easier because you're not trying to make it up. You know, this is, it's, it's, and it's more, it's honest. And so, um, it came from that. That was the original, I mean, we, we knew the, we, we knew the validity of it because we, we share it with people, people come to visit and friends would bring friends and they would be like, wow, that was amazing. And how I feel and the thing, and can I come back? And so we already, we knew that there was, you know, it was valid. We knew, yeah, it's real because it's not just us in our little room thinking that we're feeling the way we're feeling and enjoying it the way we're enjoying it. Other people are having the same experience, which is always a sign. You know, I've, when,

when I've been involved with ideas in the past, it's always, you see people later doing it and you're like, oh yeah, you know, I knew, I knew it was something not just because otherwise if you're, you know, if you're alone doing it, you're kind of like, is it really as good as I think it is and all that, but you use other people as a reference. And so that was kind of the impetus of the whole thing that we, we were seeing people enjoying Jen goes, Hey, why don't you try to do something a little more, you know, cause we're in a way we're already doing it. Like I already had, you know, I had, I'd have friends that were pro, you know, pro athletes, football, rugby, basketball, whatever they'd come in the summertime, they'd be around for a couple of

months. They'd come over every day and train in their off season. And so we were seeing, we're seeing that stuff show us the, you know, that, that it was effective and that people were really, and high level people. And then, and then, and then we'd have, you know, people that don't know how to swim or this or older kids or in, and our kids do aspects of it. And, and, and I think that's another important piece is that it has kind of a full spectrum that everybody can do it. I always question the validity or the sustainability of a program that is just designed for elite specialists. Because it's like, hey, the food, if it's good, it should be good for the kids and the

grandparents. It can't be just good for us, the guys that are, you know, in the apex. It has to be good for the, you know, for the group in some form. And that's how I feel about XPT is that in a way, the kids, I can take a little kid, I can take an older person, I can take an elite athlete. I mean, we have to change the program a little bit, but we can put them through it and And it's something that, that they'll, um, that, and then that, and that tells me like, Hey, this is sustained. This is something that we can, you know, do it. You can do this for the rest of your life. Yeah. There's, there's value for everyone. The pool, when did the, did you start with the pool training? I mean, there's so many layers to this that, that, I mean,

it's, it's almost like a psychedelic experience to try to fucking explain it. It's going to fall on deaf ears unless you've been there. Right. So like, unless you've been here, you kind of don't know the feeling. I can say from the moment I, the first day that I did it, it was just like, I remember telling Andy Galpin, cause he was partnered with me. I'm like, I'm fucking high right now. And he goes, and he just smiled and he goes, yeah, brother. And I'm like, no, I'm, I'm like no i'm legit high like i'm fucking i'm glowing yeah like i don't i don't feel this way from a cup of coffee or from working out or from anything else that i've done yeah i feel high right now and it's sustained through the whole day yeah you know like it's just it's just it blew my mind i mean it continues to

blow my mind i'm high right now i did the workout this morning yeah you know but but did it start with the pool when did you start adding in all these different components? Because you guys have learned from everyone. Yeah. Well, and I think that's a big piece of it. It's just taking pieces from other pieces. I think some of the stuff was already there. So some of the things were already kind of there.

And then we implemented them. But the pool is definitely a big part of it. You know, of course, I love the pool is definitely a big part of it. You know, I, of course I love the water. I don't like to swim, like swimming laps is like, that's like punishment for me. I just, if you said, Hey, go swim laps at the pool, I'd just be like, that's just, you know, you might as well beat me. And, and so the pool itself, you know, and then the sauna came, one of my friends, a great hockey player, Chris Chelios, um, was a big sauna proponent during his career, huge, you know, said that that was a critical

piece of, of he, he, and I don't know, he, he learned it from some Canadian guys or somebody. So one of the old timers taught him and he learned from that. So we had the sauna, um, come in and then, and then, uh, and I've always been attracted to cold and ice just in my whole, like when I go to Alaska, I swim in the lakes and I just been, since I was a kid, I'd been attracted to that. So when I heard about the Iceman, I'm like, Oh, what's the Iceman's thing? Oh, ice tub, this and that. So it was like a no brainer just to get an ice tub, um, and, and implement that. And then when, you know, Hoff came around too. So we were, we actually had some of his kind of fundamental philosophies about the ice and, and, uh, and the breath work as well. And the breath work. And then the heat was around it too. And we'd been doing some of the breath

work anyway. So, um, without unbeknownst to me, some of the things that I had been doing, um, for big wave training, when we were kids, we'd be do all this sprinting on the beach with breath holding, and we would do breath hold sprinting. And then we would do rock carrying where we carried stones on the bottom of the ocean and run along the bottom. And it's like a Polynesian, it's actually a free, it's a diving technique where they would carry stones in the canoe and they would jump out of the canoe with the stone and ride to the bottom. And then that would increase your downtime. So when you're working, I mean, you're fishing to live and you're going to go in the bottom and work, you, you ride a stone down and then you have to swim and use energy up and you can stay down a lot longer. And then that

evolved to running along the bottom, uh, and then swimming and dive down and run as far as you could. And, and so all the, so it just, it seemed like it was a combination of all those things. A lot of the stuff was based on some recovery stuff, like way to, you know, recovery from injury. And I have this theory that, you know, that why do we do all this weird recovery exercises? And then after that, we go back in and we do this other training. Why don't we, why don't we just intensify the recovery exercises as part of our exercising? Because these are things to design us to help deal with preventative injury, preventative and recovery from injury. Why don't we just make that our training and then we'd be recovering from injury and preventing injury. And doing the same primary

movement patterns that you want to do in space, not doing some fucking weird rotator cuff exercise of the band. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So all of that kind of, you know, and then it just started to evolve from there. Once we put the, you know, but the pool was really the kind of, I called the pool our gym because that was the gym.

And then we had gym training and we would switch back and forth. And pretty soon I just started to move the gym out to the pool. And then we had, then it was like surf and turf. Then we're on the deck and we're in the water. That just made sense. Like you're on the deck, you're in the water, you're on the deck, you're in the water, you're in the, you know, and bring the weights in and

bring the work in and out of the water. And, and, uh, just because all the benefits we get from that environment, you know, the, the, the, the, the threat is a big piece of it. You know, the threat of drowning, no matter how comfortable you are, the ever present brings out a kind of an internal thing in you that, that I think you get benefits from as well, like flow state, like, you know, just that kind of subconscious thread of, Hey, I'm underwater and I can't breathe underwater and I can only breathe on the top. So the body's kind of like on high alert, like, Hey, don't take a breath under here. Cause this is this you'll drown. So there's always that there's. And so those pieces start and then heat nice and, and, and the breath work and then the lift, you know, the lifting stuff within that. And then just men and then just mixing them and, and, you know, piggybacking them on top of each

other and, and just, you know, keep, keep, uh, just tweaking it, keep tweaking it. And just when you get comfortable with one pattern, throw another pattern in and, you know, and, and start, uh, and it just, it's kind of like a little laboratory where we have a bunch of Guinea pigs, you know, we're the Guinea pigs, we come over and we subjectors. No, I always tell, we always tell everybody, Hey, listen, no matter what, whatever you're subjected to, it's nothing we haven't subjected ourself worse, you know? So don't feel bad. It's not like we just think up these, devise these plans and like, well, let's subject this guy to that. We all, you know, we all- Bring in the guinea pigs and test it out.

Exactly. No, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's really incredible. And you guys have learned, it's funny how all these things kind of mesh together, but, you know, even from like your first introduction of the Polynesian rock training into Patrick McCown's work and the and oxygen advantage yeah with breath holds and co2 tolerance and that's exactly what you train in the pool and like there's all these fucking high-tech devices that i used to train with like a hypoxico mask for for altitude training and it's like well or it's free free in the pool that's right and you don't even have to have the discipline and to hold your breath you just it's you won't be able to breathe when you're under and you can on top it's like

self-regulating so there's some there it is interesting and you you you can you can attest to this as good as anyone how now science is kind of is proving your intuitions right like i like you know intuitively you go, you know what, my instinct tells me that's kind of, and then you hear the science. Oh yeah. Or you, or, you know, on the negative and the positive, but you get the bat and it is, I think we're so fact driven. Like we need the facts. Um, I, I know I usually go with, you know, go with the heart, like go with the instincts and you know, when you're a little, we know you, when it's something's not right, it's not right. And when something's, you know, you intuitively feel like there's something beneficial about what this is. And I know the

way it makes me feel and I can't explain it. And then they go, well, yeah, that's because, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they give you all the, you know, hormone this and that. The mechanism of action. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that I love about everything that you guys do here is that all of it is challenging. All of it is hard. And in any of those things that we're doing, whether it's a fucking 250 degree sauna or a cold bath or doing farmer's walks underneath a pool at 15 feet, all of these things extend out into our lives in all directions. They do. You know, like we talked about quieting the noise earlier. It really quiets the noise of stress in everyday life. And all the anxiety, all of the worry,

all of the everything is out the window. Like there's nothing else I can think about at the bottom of that pool with weight in my hand other than the exact thing that I need to do next. Whether that's relax and take a step forward or get my squat and jump as hard as I can to get to the surface for a breath while I'm exhaling all the way up.

Like whatever the case is, I can only focus on that thing. Yeah. And I think as we do any activity that draws us into the now, that's the trainable muscle that everyone talks about in meditation. I mean, I read this great book,

The Science of Mindfulness on Audible by Dr. Ronald Siegel, who's a professor at Harvard. And he talks about the brain is trainable like a muscle. And the more often you get into a meditative state, a parasympathetic state, the easier it is to get back. The more often you get into a flow state, the easier it is to get back, right? The more often you get present and right now, and you're not thinking about anything else, the easier it is to get there. And every one of these practices demands it. Yeah. And I think, I don't think it's an accident. Like, I don't think it's an accident. I think we're attracted to that because we intuitively feel that that's what we need. Like, we feel like, you know what, I question it if it doesn't demand that kind of focus from me. And at the end, and then the, and then that feeling we get after where

we feel like, wow, I feel so thoroughly like used. Like, I feel like there's not, there's no, no cell unturned at, at that. And I, and I, and again, I think it's, we connect that to that, that immersion of the intensity of it. Because no matter what you're talking about, at the end of the sauna, when you look up and that thing's 250 or 230 or just whatever it is, there's nothing else in your head except this is so hot, I need to get out right now. And we can do that.

We don't need a giant mountain. We can do that. We don't need a giant mountain. We don't have to fly in a plane to 30,000 feet with our oxygen match. We don't need a giant wave. We can implement that. And maybe they're just little tiny exercises within that genre, within that, like the professor said,

that that's a practice, that's a muscle. We groove that thing. It might be just little ones within that, but I, I know for sure that it affects our relationship with those situations that we're able to be in those, in that flow state or in that kind of focus more intensely, more regularly. We can pull that pretty quick. We can just go, okay, boom, pull it. Cause the brain's already been doing it in all these different. And I think the variety of ways that we go into it, whether it's heat, or cold, or breath, or, you know, drowning, or whatever that is, I think all that variation makes it that much simpler to, to get into that state, you know, and it's, it's, I mean, again, I, like, I mean, again, you feel intuitively drawn.

You feel like, okay, I'm drawn to this. And you see the consistency with the people who participate. It's very, you know, I haven't done too many different kinds of routines that I couldn't turn away from pretty easily at some point. I'm just tired and bored yeah i enjoyed that for a month yeah but i'm not going back yeah and this is this one that like if i've been away from the ice for a while i'm like what's up right now oh yeah the ice i haven't had the ice that's right you know it's like oh yeah this like you know really affecting my sleep all this heat really

affects my like you know before bed at night, big bake, that good bake, that workout, and then just, you know, and then you're like, sleep like a log, like all the, you know, you just, you kind of start to crave it, and, and, you know, and I think that's a little bit of a sign of the, of the function, and I know for performance-wise, you know, I, because I've experienced different, you know, I always say, I think it's, I think it's a danger when your training injures you unless your training is your sport. If your training is your sport and you're doing a sport and you get hurt training because that's your sport, then I understand that. But if you get hurt doing your training, I think I... And there are rare exceptions, but you shouldn't be injuring

yourself in your preparation for your activity. I think that's, that's crazy. It's like we, and we can't afford it too. I mean, certain, certain, I mean, especially in surfing, you know, the rarity of conditions and being prepared for that and all the variables that you have around that, you know, there's plenty of things you can't control, but you can definitely control what you're doing on the road to that. Like the activities you can't control, you know, there's plenty of things you can't control, but you can definitely control what you're doing on the road to that. Like the activities you can't control, you know, if you're sick or if the plane is late or all, and none of that stuff, but you can control what you're doing in preparation. And if that's undermining the potential to perform, I'm like, that's just doesn't make sense. And I see it a lot. I see a lot of athletes out there training in a way that creates such vulnerability to

them and could be the thing that actually inhibits them from doing their sport. I'd be like, I'd almost question like, don't do anything. Then do something that's going to undermine you into the point where you're not going to be able to, because at least you'd be ready. I mean, you'd be able to do it versus not. So, but it is an interesting, and it's a balance, right? It's that whole, that, that, that, that line of, you know, how do I push myself and go to the edge and, and, and, you know, and how do I make it like a safe, protective edge, you know, and, and not be something that like can really, you know, hurt me at the end of the day. Cause I, cause it,

you know, I've experienced, I've seen other, uh, I watch guys do it. I see a lot of their, a lot of the training is actually undermining their performance. They don't even realize that stuff's making them slower and they're supposed to be faster and the, you know, stuff is making them stiffer and they should be more flexible. And it's just, you see this stuff and you're just like, but it's making them tired and it's fulfilling that, you know, using up with that energy. Like, Hey, I got it. I got all this energy. I got to use it up. And there's, there's some value to that, but I think there's ways to be, you know, a little bit smarter about how you go about it.

And things like what we're doing at XPT are pretty safe. Like it's pretty, you know, we've got a pretty good safe environment and, you know, I mean, barring some, some freak, you know, physical, something wrong. Some people have some weird genetic thing or something, but, you know, heat and ice and breath and the water. I mean, these are some pretty good environments to, you know, and breathing. I mean, these are some good environments to, to ratchet it up and kind of be, and have huge benefits too. And then you see the benefits from it, especially psychologically. Oh, no doubt.

Yeah. Like a very effective way to dump stress, to change mood, to lift you up, to increase and enhance your circadian rhythms. You can lay down at night and say, okay, I had a good day. I accomplished a lot. Now I'll go to sleep and not even worry about a damn thing.

Yeah. Well, that's one of the biggest problems that people have more than anything is we're so, our rhythms are so off just because of the light, all the light that we're using and the lack of being connected to nature. We're not grounded. We're not, we're not, you know, getting rid of all static electricity. I mean, just the list goes on and on. That's why you got to do whatever you can, you know, where you can, you have to do it because we're, we're, we're, we're undermined in so many different levels and not anyone you can't you know where you can you have to do it because we're we're we're undermined in so many

different levels and and not anyone you can really attribute as the cause you can't you can't just go oh it's because of that no but but the 10 things when you pile them all up they're definitely participating so where you can adjust and and support you you kind of you're obligated to especially if you know if you don't know you know that yeah if you're ignorant to bliss, you're obligated to, especially if you know, if you don't know, you know, that ignorance is bliss. If you're unaware of it, I guess it doesn't matter. Well, we've been talking about stress. Talk about being a dad in an all-woman family. Yeah. That's why I got to go back out to the pool again here pretty soon. The heat and the ice. Well, I will say at this point, you know, I have a couple of things about

parenting. One of them is, as I said, you know, parenting is like building a samurai sword. You take steel, you heat it up, you beat it with a hammer, and then you stick it in ice. And your children, they take you, they heat you up, they pound you with a hammer, and then they stick you in a bucket of ice. And they just do that over and over. And eventually you are the hardest steel in the world. And so that's one of my theories. The other one is, is that they were sent here to tire us out so we can die and they can take over. That's actually not bad. Yeah, they're doing both of those.

But yeah, I mean, listen, I would describe it probably as the biggest challenge, you know, of, of, of life. I think it's part of our evolution. I think, you know, and I, and people that don't have children and haven't had children or may not have children, that's, that's a, but in the evolutionary process of a, of a, of a human and. And that I think that that's part of our, if you're going to evolve as a human organism and you're going to go through the different stages of growth, I think that parenting and maybe at the end you get a little reprieve because you get to be grandparents and then you give them birthday cake and send them home to the mom and dad all wound up. But, um, but that's, that's, you know, that's our, that's our, um, that's the highest level of school. That's, that's the, that's your master's degree. Uh, and you know, and, and, and you wonder,

you're wondering if, you know, if you're passing the class or not, but, uh, but yeah, it's, it's, it doesn't end. There's no end to it. I know an insight is that they get older, they're just bigger problems and more expensive problems. And you worry more, but you worry less, but you worry less, but you worry more. I mean, it's like, yeah, girls, children, girls.

Yeah, I'm girls. Yeah, I got my hands full. Well, I mean, how has it changed through the stages? We have a boy who's four and I've watched every stage unfold. And when you were describing that in the male nature to embrace danger and there's a spectrum there, there's no doubt. The apple didn't fall far from the tree. He could run through a brick wall. So I think about that. And then I also think about how it changes.

I have some nieces, and there is a shift. There's a definite shift from youth into puberty. And as your girls are aging, what is that like? Well, hormones are, first of all, hormones are radical. I mean, I just told somebody, I said, well, you see what's happening on the outside? Just think about that on the inside. Like when they go through puberty and they go, that's its own, you know, and girls are, I mean, listen, I have all daughters and I can tell you that had I known what I know now, I would have been a lot more cautious around women in general.

Like what I know now, I'm like, you know, if other men knew that, they'd be very cautious because women are, they're highly intelligent. Let's just put it that way. And professional. They know just put it that way. And, and professional they're there. They know they, they, uh, they don't even, we, we don't even know what they don't know. I mean, what they know and what they, and I, and I, you know, I have three daughters at different, different stages of, of development. And, uh, and it's, you know, it's an, it's, it's, it's an amazing thing. And I, I just, you know, I, I'm hoping, uh, I feel sorry for the, whoever, you know, they end up with, I mean, the guy I'll be like, yeah, Hey, good luck. Like, hope you,

hope you work it. Like people are normally guys are worried about their daughter, like a guy dating a daughter. I'm like, yeah, sure. Let me see. I can't wait. You're going to get chewed up. I can't wait. And I think for me, you know, there was a great, there's a woman who we really admire her work.

Her name is Byron Katie and she does some far out stuff. But one of the things she does is she does this thing in the prisons called the work and they bring people together. But, but she's, we, we know, and we were talking to her about parenting. And we said, you know, what do you think is the most important thing you can do for your children? And she goes, be happy. Like, be happy. Yeah, so they can see what it looks like.

So they can be like, wow, that's what happiness looks like. So I've been working on that. I'm still, I'm, I'm failing miserably, but I'm trying to show them what being happy looks like and, and lead by example. And, you know, they're, they're watching you. You can talk all you want, but it's what you're doing. They're just, they're just watching what you're doing the whole time. And so, um, I, again, I, I think, you know, uh, I think if it was for the kids, it'd be

called kidding. It's not called kidding. It's called parenting, which is for us. And it's really our evolution, you know, it's our evolution and our growth and, and, and our evolvement, like how, you know, how can we can deal with, you know, when they're little and there's pressure and you're like, and then they drive in the car and you're just like, oh, there they go. You know, it's like for me, I, you know, I never worried for myself. Like I've worried for them. I didn't even know what being

vulnerable was like until I had a child and then watch my child, you know, thought about my child, something happening, whatever, just all that stuff. And, and that stuff, this is, you put you on another level of, of, uh of uh you know of just compassion and of fear and vulnerability and just puts you just sends you to a place that you know nothing else can no nothing nothing nothing can do i mean you love your wife and you're and but but the but the child the in and it's part of the mechanism in us that's part of why we've survived so it's a thing that's in us like a you know like these other things we've been talking about it's inside of us it's part of the mechanism in us. That's part of why we've survived. So it's a thing that's in us, like a, you know, like these other things we've been talking about, it's inside of us. It's like

a primal thing. Just, you just, you know, let that lever go. And then you're just like, you know, and, and, uh, you know, and, and that, but you realize too, that's their life, not yours. Like, and you're just, am I doing it right? And, you know, I'm trying to set a high bar, you know, like as how I, my relationship with them and, and, and, and, uh, you know, and because that will influence for the daughters that will influence the kind of relationship that they have with men in their life. And so, you know, the cautiousness, the awareness, the whole thing, what they expect out of one, you know, how I treat Gabby, my relationship with Gabby and how that will influence the way they have their relationships. I think that's a big, you know, that's another piece of it. It's a massive piece. And that was exactly, that's a perfect segue because that's

exactly what I was going to talk about next. Like children are observing everything we do and they learn through that and they're programmed through that in large part, our interactions. Like you can talk out of your ass about communication skills or anything like that. But if you're constantly yelling or not communicating gently in a receptive way or not receiving somebody who's a little bit triggered in a gentle way, or if you're always defensive, like all that's patterned into the child and they will, that's going to come out when they're older, right? And there's ways to get rid of that stuff and reprogram, but I'm still dealing with that stuff for certain is so i just wanted to you know you've been with gabby for how long now uh we're going 24 years i

think fuck yeah congratulations yeah so talk a bit about tips around that right because i mean there's maybe there's not everybody listening has kids but certainly relationship everybody's in relationship everybody has been in relationship and everybody will be in relationship at some point. Well, I listened to Jordan Peterson's work, and he was saying at one point, you're right, and you're right a lot. Be right 10,000 times, and then tell me how your relationship's working out.

So I think being right, wanting to be right, thousand times and then tell me how your relationship's working out. So, you know, I think, I think trying, you know, being right, wanting to be right, always being right. I don't know how healthy that is for relationship. Sometimes you have to, even if you are right, like, what's the point? Like, is the point for you to be right? Or is it a point for you to have a good relationship? And so I, I, you know, I think it's, uh, I mean, I know that Gabby and I together, I know that, uh, that, that Gabby and I together both have, uh, had, uh, you know, I mean, we, we, we've had our times, you know, you realize how much you want to be together, and you're like, hey, you know what, we want to be together, and what's it going to take to be together, and, you know, I think it's important for, I always say, you know, each person has to come in with their own happiness, with their own life, and then together, we can bring our two own lives and our own happinesses together, and we can have a happy life together.

But, you know, being supportive of each other in our careers, being tolerant of each other. I think Gabby's tolerance of me is mind boggling. I don't, I wouldn't be as tolerant of me as she is of me and I probably am not. But, you know, I think that that's a she is of me. And, um, and I'm probably, I'm not, but, uh, you know, the, I think that, that that's a big, a big part of it. It takes two to tangle. You have to participate in, and, uh, you know, in the relationship and, and, and like I said, be supportive, like be, you know, always and help, help the other person, uh, you know, get to their to their fulfillment, their happiness, their thing, whatever. Hey, oh, you're interested in the thing and you want to get a new job or you want to,

yeah, okay, let's, you know, not just, oh, yeah, okay, you're, you know, you were over here. And, you know, they said, they did a study with 10,000 couples and they said that there was only one thing that was consistent amongst all successful relationships was that the man respected the woman, that that was the single element, no matter what, who was the breadwinner and what the dynamics are with the relationship. There's all every different dynamic, but the only consistent thing was that the, that the man had respect for the woman. And, and I definitely respect Gabby a lot. And so I had, no, I have that piece. I have that one. And I think I've always had, um, that I probably wouldn't be with, um, with Gabby if I didn't

respect her. Um, there's always that too. So that, and, but that's a little bit honest on my side that that's like, I'm honest that way. Like I wouldn't be with a woman that I didn't have respect for. I had such respect for my mother, um, that I just, and that's how I was trained. So I had that going for me already when I had a good program, I had a good program. I had a good program, like, Hey, have respect for, you know, and I, and I watched my mom be with guys that didn't respect her. And I didn't ever want to be one of those guys. Um, and I don't want to be one of those guys. And so that's something, um, too, but I think it's all, you know, it's obviously an ongoing, an ongoing thing. One thing that Gabby and I do consistently with our kids is we always have, we're, we're, we're normally 99% of the time on the common, the same ground, like

the group, the kids don't like it because they can't, they can't separate us and be like, well, mom said, dad said that kind of thing. They can't, they can't break up the unity and it pisses them off, but, but it's, it's effective to be, you have a unified front, especially you don't even necessarily have to agree with each other, but I think it's important. Um, for us, it's important that we have a unified front, um, to, with the kids. It's just something that comes natural to us to want to be unified when it comes to, you know, our parenting part, um, of, of, of the relationship. And, you know, you got to, I mean, it's, there's so many, there's so many pieces to it. So you're a guy who's juggling a lot in life and it's, it's almost comical. Like, especially if I talked to Gabby about it, you know,

she's constantly cracking jokes and busting balls. But you have boundless energy. And a lot of that is attributed to you as an individual, but the work that you do. And you're also doing a lot as an entrepreneur, like through XPT and also through your coffee and your superfoods. Talk a bit about where you decided that was something you were passionate about. I think most of the world enjoys caffeine. It's like the world's favorite drug. Yeah. You know, and again, I think like, like XPT, it came out of a real honest, organic,

authentic relationship. I've been drinking coffee for a long time. I started, I mean, I've been drinking coffee since for 35 years 36 years and i started in france i had two french habits uh red wine which i gave up about 12 years ago 15 years ago now um and then and then and then coffee uh and so i had had a long-going relationship with coffee and and i had used it as an energy source i I used it, I would, you know, drink coffee before a paddle race or, you know, like I always used, I kind of had that kind of relationship with it. Um, I, I, I liked the stimulate, you know, that to be stimulated by it, I use it for working out, I use it in the morning. And so that had just evolved into kind of having a

deeper relationship with it. When first I was putting ghee, cause a friend of mine, Paul check who was into, into ghee was like, cause I loved expresso and he was like, oh, I love expresso. And he goes, oh, I've been putting some ghee in it. And then I was putting, and then I put, I would put raw cream and other stuff. And, and then, uh, and then, you know, the whole bulletproof phenomenon, I'll put butter and coconut oil. So I had naturally already had a good relationship and I'd just been kind of concocting stuff. And I had a couple of recipes that, um, that I was turning my friends onto when they, when they would come over. And, and one of the guys just said to me, he goes, Hey, a friend that I was doing another startup,

uh, electric golf board, um, program. And so, uh, he's like, Hey, let me try to make something, you know, tell me what the formula is. So I gave him, I gave him all the ingredients and then he made a, he made a, uh, like a powdered version of it. And about the third or fourth rendition was the original, original creamer. And so we just, he started like turning, you know, letting people trying to sell it first, giving it and then selling it. And then, and then it just did another flavor. Cause I was into turmeric. Cause we've been, my friends farm turmeric in Hawaii. They've been farming it for like 30 years before it was turmeric and Hawaii is called, it was called Olena in Hawaii. The Hawaiians used it. They had it in

there. The Polynesians had it. Um, but so it was just kind of, it came organically that way. Um, it wasn't something that again, you know, I've had people, athletes come, Oh, Hey, how'd you get connected with that? Like, how'd you connect your brand to that brand? You know, I've been building a brand because I, uh, you know, and I would lie to say that I didn't have some kind of conscious awareness that, that I've been trying to build a brand. Because in surfing, that's where the value of what your legacy can, that's where you can put value into this kind of invisible thing.

You don't know what your brand's gonna connect to. Intuitively, you don't know. I mean, I have apparel, I have an apparel line. I have hard goods, boards and foils and all this other equipment. I have the apparel line. I have hard goods, boards and foils and all this other equipment. I have the training stuff. I've done a bunch of different things and you just don't know what thing is going to connect to your brand to the consumer. And it might not even be intentionally, like intuitively.

They might just feel it instinctually, like, hmm, they feel it, but they get, they get something from it and they connect to it. So, but the superfood came out and that's probably why it's had the mind of its own in the, you know, the success of it, the way it's going. A lot of it, a little bit like XPT where this wasn't like some, you know, I'd like to say that we're so smart that we have, you know, we've ingenious these little programs and we go, yeah, this special little thing. And we do that. It doesn't those, they haven't come out from that. They've come out, you know, I, I, I, I'm, I seem to get spiritual sometimes it seems off kind of kilter for me, but you know,

when they talk about, uh, you know, what you do in secret, you rewarded for publicly. Um, and so I think sometimes that some of the things that are happening are like, and I'm not saying I don't, I would never say any kind of deserving thing, but that's like a result of maybe the diligence and the effort and the kind of, you know, I I've been real conscious about what I, what brands I connect myself to. I, I, I wouldn't promote things I wouldn't want the kids to have. And I've been real and that's been, and that's cost me, um, you know, in, in the past. And I, I, at times I probably could have been, you know,

raking some, some Jack in from some of these companies that sell stuff that I don't believe in. Um, but I don't, I wouldn't feel right. And I, and I, And I thought that that would be short-sighted. So I was always thinking about, okay, well, if I really want people to trust me, right? Like, and have a trusted brand, then you have to walk a certain line. And it's easy, you know, I always say, saying no when you can is easy.

It's just saying no when you can't, that's hard. And so it's like, hey, when you're trying to make the bills, you know, pay the mortgage and feed the kids and do the thing. And then you're like, Oh yeah, well, I won't take that contract, even though that's money, that's hard to do. Uh, you know, but, but, but then I believe that, that, that with that comes other things that may be in the long run. And so some of these things are a result of that too. I think it's the, the, the waiting, the, the, uh, you know, and some, and some with the intention of what's the, the long, the long-term intention behind it. What's your beliefs? What are you promoting? You know, I always, I feel a certain responsibility. If I have a kid look up to me, um, I'm not going to

say, yeah, drink that shit. And if it's crap or use that it's terrible for you so you know it's like I'm not promoting alcohol I'm not promoting you know things that you know that at least not directly with my I mean maybe I'm involved with some ancillary thing that some alcohol thing but

but it's not I'm never putting my brand and saying hey you know this is what I think is good and if it's good, because I just think that there's danger in that. Um, oh, and then it's just not honest. And it's, and it's, and I, like I said, I think you have a responsibility and it's amazing how many people in those positions that have influence and much greater influence than I'll ever have just how abusive they are. They just do anything like that. And it's like, Hey, that's this, you're just, you know, you're going to have kids doing all kinds of stuff that, that I think that there's a karmic bill for. I think that the end of the day, I think you're

going to pay, you're going to, you know, and I don't, I, I don't even know if you're going to, I just feel like if there's a possibility, I want to make sure that that, that on my side, I'm good. I'm good. You know? Talk a bit about that. I know we're short on time here, but did you grow up spiritual or was it being engulfed in nature for so long that drew you to that? I mean, listen, I grew up on Kauai, right?

It's the wettest spot on earth and one of the most beautiful places in the world. If you don't believe in creation after you look at that stuff and you're like waterfalls and beaches and rainbows and, you know, I mean, you know, we say bright light, dark shadow. But the fact is, is that definitely nature. My mom never pushed it on us, never pushed religion on us.

She felt like it was she was raised strict Catholic, like nuns with rulers slapping the hands and stuff like that. So she was real gun shy about pushing anything on us. She, she just felt that we, when we were at the right stage that, and again, it's, you know, it's about conduct. So when you, when, you know, if I look at my mom and the way she lived, I mean, I don't think you could be more religious than my mom was in a way, like in certain ways, her honesty her truth her you know live by the commandments like you want to get the commandments and read them out my mom was you know pretty much uh all of them except maybe maybe a little bit too much wine at night but but at the end you know it's like uh

so I think that that's that's uh you, and the people you look up to, how do they conduct themselves? Who do you respect? Um, are they living, you know, biblically or, or however you want to say it, golden rule living by the truth. Um, so I think, you know, nature also, you know, having an idea about cause and effect, realizing like there's a master plan, kind of maybe not, you're not in charge of it. Believing in that, having that kind of faith. I think

for me personally, I think the relationship kind of having how you look at death, I think how you look at death is very critical in how you approach life. And I think if you think death is the end, then I think it seems like not a great life. If we're marching just to get to an end, that's death. And if death is the end, then that seems like, then you'd definitely going to have a different life than if you think death is the beginning or death is just a transition to something else. Because those are going to, all those are going to have multiple different ways about how you approach living, right? And especially if you're going to do dangerous stuff. So then if you're going to do dangerous things and death

is going to be present, then you're going to be like, okay, death is present. Like what is death? If death is the end, then death is a lot more going to inhibit you a lot more than if you look at it like, okay, well, no, it's just, that's just another transition. And so if that's just a transition, then it won't have such a, it won't encumber you. I think it would encumber you in risk, in taking risk, and which would lead you ultimately to having hope and faith and belief, right? So I think that's my, you know, I think that's where my religion evolved from. And then, and then, you know, active in, in religion, uh, in Christianity and, and, and the studies of it and, and searching out other religions and the studies of those religions and kind of, uh,

watching people's behavior within the religions and going, well, you know, the word's good. The truth is right. People don't act well. Maybe I just won't, you know, you know, and, and the judgment, a lot of judgment with humans. We judge each other a lot. I think, um, trying to, you know, just trying to, trying to live, maybe trying to live it a little more than, than, than profess it. Yeah. Be the change you wish to see in the world. Yeah. Simple. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of just, you know, and I, and I always connect something.

There's some sort of guilt and, or some sort of like they're looking, you know, repentance, like act like you want all week long and, you know, it doesn't matter what you do to the infidels, but as long as you go there and, you know, do your thing on Sunday, then you're let off. I'm like, for me, I'm like, no, that doesn't, in the karmic tree, that doesn't work too well. That's not, you're not going to just get off that easy acting like that and then just think that you can just for your actions. I think it's, I believe more in that the gift is, it's a gift and that you don't deserve it because you're human, but you might get it anyway because it's a present. So I look at it like that. And that's what made sense to me when I heard it.

I just felt like that seemed more like the truth. Yeah, and the gift is now. If you do something good for another person, you do it because it feels good. Not because there's some fucking huge payoff when you leave your body. The gift is right now. It's in the moment. Exactly. Well, I call it the selfish act of giving. It's true. It's funny if you look at the world and you see all the greatest accumulators, they get to a point where you've, you can't really accumulate more than they've accumulated. And they realized that they're still miserable. So then they scramble and they start doing the giveaway and, and doing the charities and the giveaway stuff just to try to, because then they, and then all of a sudden they

start finding, well, actually this is where I'm getting a lot more fulfillment than I was when I was trying to gather. But we're in the beginning, you kind of do that. I think that's part of the process is that you accumulate to the point, especially if you think accumulation is going to bring you the happiness, that's your first mistake, but they get there and then they go, Oh, I got all this stuff. And then they're like, wow, I'm so miserable. And if they don't die before, then they get to try to scramble about trying to give it out and give it away and, and get that, get that feeling. But it's good if you get it a little earlier and start giving out, give it before you, you know, you don't even need to accumulate a great thing to start to give and realize that it,

and I feel like that's, you know, that's what superfood is. That's a gift. That's like sharing, spreading some good love. And so is XPT. XPT is another one. So these sports that, you know, riding giant waves or stand up paddling or any of the things that I've been involved with in the innovation wise, I feel like those are gifts.

Like those are things you can share with people that, you know, if a guy goes, Oh, I learned how to stand up paddle and we move cause we loved it so much. And now we're here and we're doing that thing. I'm like, awesome. Like that's for me. I'm like, I go, I want a trophy. That's a trophy. I'll stick that. I'll like, awesome. Like that's, for me, I'm like, I go, I want a trophy. That's a trophy. I'll stick that, I'll stick those trophies up all day long.

You know, that's, you want to have a trophy case. Get a bunch of humans that you've changed their life and made a difference. I go, that's, those are real, that's real stuff. Like maybe if you could take something with you, then you might be able to take that. Yeah, and those are the gifts that you can give right now. It's not monetary.

It's not a donation, right? It's a gift that actually changes in your time too yeah yeah sure brother well dude thank you so much for having me here it's always a pleasure to see you kyle always my pleasure you're always welcome warrior thank you brother uh where can people find you online where can people get their hands on some of this well they're superfood laird superfood uh uh is uh well x, uh, well, XPT Life is the fitness thing. Laird Superfood that you can go on Amazon or our site, our site actually, you might benefit, but, but, uh, Amazon, obviously people feel more comfortable. And then, uh, some, you know, some social media stuff, um, is out there too. And I have a book, I have a book called Life Writer that we came out last year that that's gotten some pretty good love. I think we made a New York times bestseller and then,

um, and then, uh, catch every wave is also that documentary. So that's another place. If people want to kind of see, um, is that on Netflix? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Take, take every wave is, uh, Rory Kennedy, who's a great film director from the kennedy family she directed it it's a woman director and it's it's a part of my life story so i can't i can only do one of those we'll link to all that in the show notes dude it's been an absolute pleasure all right so much aloha aloha thank you thank you guys for listening to the show today with laird hamilton hope you enjoyed it as much as i did please go go to my website, kingsboo.com, K-I-N-G-S-B-U.com and sign up. You will receive my complete supplement list. If you have questions

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Thank you guys for listening and I'll see you in a few days.