Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #154 Dr. Paul Saladino

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

Dr. Paul Saladino returns to the show to discuss some of the myths surrounding what's happening with Coivid 19 and reframe what we think of when we look at the statistics coming out about the Coronavirus. Connect with Paul Saladino: Website | https://carnivoremd.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/carnivoremd/ Twitter | https://twitter.com/carnivoremd Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/carnivoreMD/ YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/c/paulsaladinomd   Check out Fundamental Health with Paul Saladino, MD podcast | https://apple.co/35cDsmJ Help support the podcast by visiting our sponsors:   Check out Dry Farm Wines and get a bottle for a penny | DryFarmWines.com/Kyle   Ancestral Supplements - Grass-Fed Colostrum  https://ancestralsupplements.com Use codeword VISIT  for 10% off / Only Valid through Shopify Option   OneFarm Formally (Waayb CBD) www.onefarm.com/kyle (Get 15% off everything using code word KYLE at checkout)   Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Instagram | https://bit.ly/3asW9Vm   Subscribe to the Kyle Kingsbury Podcast Itunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2Ib3HCg Google Play Music | https://bit.ly/2HPdhKY   Show Notes Robb Wolf on 5G and the Coronavirus | https://bit.ly/35aQSzH Iceland Coronavirus | https://cnn.it/2xdZgSx

What's up? What's up? How we doing guys? Still on this quarantine kick, but I got good news. The return of Dr. Paul Saladino. Paul flew out from California here to Texas, and we did this live face-to-face, the old-fashioned way. My favorite way to podcast. Obviously, we've got quite a few more Zoom podcasts coming up due to quarantine, but this was a real treat having him in town. He is moving to Austin, but this was a real treat having him in town. He is moving to Austin, so I am fucking thrilled to have him here. And I learned a lot. This was the very first podcast I've done all quarantine that in large part is completely about COVID-19. And there are a lot of myths, as you may or may not know, about what's happening with our projections and what's

actually happening with exposure. That said, as I stand in this podcast, I know people who have died from this and it is taking lives. So it's not to diminish any of that, but it is to reframe what we think of when we look at these statistics and how likely we are to see millions and millions of people die from this. Well, I'll let you guys decide that. And you can hit me up at livingwiththekingsburys on Instagram to let me know your thoughts on this podcast. This is for sure one that's going to open a lot of eyes and change a lot of perspective around what we're dealing with here. And it's just a fantastic way to look at health because there are common traits among all those who have died from this. And we're going to take a deep dive into that.

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the carnivore doc, Paul Saladino. Let me know what you think. I love you all chat soon. Carnivore doc, Paul Saladino, you have returned in a time when most people aren't returning in a time where people are at home hiding away from the boogeyman you are here and we're going to talk all things boogeyman the real the unreal and uh and all sorts of shit but talk about your travels getting out here because i had fear i had a flight scheduled to la uh early may which i canceled because i had heard of this mandated quarantine anybody coming in from california the texas governor that kind of horse shit which I canceled because I had heard of this mandated quarantine, anybody coming in from California, the Texas governor, that kind of horse shit.

And it kind of scared me, you know, with my wife being in the third trimester. Yeah. So we, my buddy and I flew in from California earlier last week. We had some business stuff to do in Houston, some fun projects, collaborations happening. There's probably a move fun projects, collaborations happening. There's probably a move to Austin for me happening. Yes. So that's really exciting. So now we're in Austin and face-to-face talking about the boogeyman and coronavirus. But basically what we had to do was just sign a piece of paper saying that we were going to quarantine, stay at home for 14 days.

When we got to where we were going and we promptly broke that. Because we're not in Houston anymore but uh we can talk about why we might be so cavalier as to disregard that and why we're not taking coronavirus seriously we're not being disrespectful we're just using our own brains and thinking for ourself is how I think about it right now yeah I think it's I think it's an important thing to do and there as you know there's a lot of information and a lot of misinformation on all sides from the traditional media outlets, all the way to the not so traditional media outlets. We hear everything from this is the most deadly thing we've ever seen to this is completely overhyped. We hear everything from the David Ikes of new world order, you know,

and that did seven plus million, maybe 8 million views on London real. So it's not like people weren't tuning into that. There's a lot of people tuning into that. There's a lot of people asking about 5g, which I think, uh, we'll link to in the show notes. Ryan Rob Wolf did a fucking excellent expose on why 5g is not the source. He's like, and to be clear, he's like, I'm not gonna wouldn't strap a 5g wi-fi to my ball sack i don't think it's good for us but it is not the cause of coronavirus it is not the cause of oxygen failure in the lungs it's not the cause of any of this stuff um and there are greater threats to think about as he so beautifully states in that podcast highly recommend it we'll link to it in the show notes but we have much to dive into here um our podcast before did fucking excellent so

yeah i'm glad you liked it yeah it's a treat your book is out now the carnivore code carnivore code is live the audible is out the ebook is out yeah fuck yeah well let's just jump right in uh i've been following you now that i'm back on the gram uh been following you you've you've i remember having a conversation with you right before I got back on about how fucked up social media is and how anytime you pose a new way to look at health, a new way to look at how we treat disease, you get people chiming in. And not just people who don't have any information, people who may have a PhD at the end of their name, people who may think they know better the end of their name, people who may think

they know better. And that can be disheartening, right? Yeah. I mean, it's a strange thing. Humans are tribal. And what we're used to, I think, is living in a tribe of 15, 20, 30, 40 people. Maybe 150. Maybe 150, but probably not bigger than 150. You know the magic number that human groups who get bigger than 150 lose the cohesiveness that makes us magic. So organizations that are bigger than 150 lose that kind of social check. But we are human creatures who depend on opinions. And once you expose my views, your thoughts, anyone's thoughts to 100,000, 200,000, a million opinions on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter, you start getting a lot of negative opinions. And we're not really used to that. And humans amplify the negative opinions more than the positive ones. We can't take it in

and we can't represent them in the same proportions that they're actually occurring. I think for every 99 positive comments, I'll get a negative one. That's probably a reasonable statistic, but I focus in on that negative one, that negative one, that negative one just burrows in my brain. And sometimes it's a good thing. Sometimes it's a valid point and somebody spurring me to research something else that I should be doing. But most of the time it's somebody being a jackass and somebody being disrespectful or somebody saying, you're an idiot. How can you be such an irresponsible doctor and it just kind of we don't know how i don't know how to respond to it you know and that's that's what's challenging

for me is to say wait a minute social media is not my tribe this is not the tribe of people that i've selected that have said we believe what you believe because if you're in a tribe of people that believe what you believe and you do something and they're like dude what are you doing you're like oh these are my people right these are opinions that believe what you believe and you do something and they're like, dude, what are you doing? You're like, oh, these are my people, right? These are opinions that I care about. And that was the feedback that I've gotten from people with my social media as I've, mostly as I talked about coronavirus and some other things that have been fairly controversial. People may know that the carnivore diet, animal-based diets are fairly controversial, but I've gotten way beyond worrying about flack from carnivore.

You're into living radically. Yeah. I don't care if anybody criticizes me on the carnivore diet, I'm happy just to talk numbers with them and talk science with them. But coronavirus is an uncharted world for all of us. And so when people do ad hominem attacks against me or anyone else talking about this pandemic that we've got, that we're all wrestling with, that is changing the fabric of our society, no one is really an expert, but some people claim to be experts. And the criticisms hit us all a little harder, or at least I'm susceptible to thinking maybe I'm off base here. Maybe I'm wrong. But that one little negative comment, or maybe the two to three out of a hundred comments, or maybe more than that sometimes if I'm being super controversial with

my stuff, really weigh heavily. And again, it has to just, you know, I want to take them into stride and not ignore them, but remind myself, hey, this may not be my tribe. This person may not believe what I believe. This person may not live their life with the same priorities that I live my life with. And does their opinion matter? Whose opinion actually counts? Who do I have the same beliefs with? Whose opinions am I going to value? Because I think you told me this, you know, maybe Aubrey had mentioned this to you. If you're not feeling like you're pushing the envelope, if you're not feeling like an imposter, sometimes you're not, you're not pushing hard enough. And so if you're not getting negative criticism, man,

you're in an echo chamber. You're fucking coasting. Exactly. You're not pushing the envelope. Exactly. You gotta be getting it. So how do we walk that fine line of negative comments being productive or negative comments actually really hitting my psyche off balance and sending me into a spiral. It's pretty negative because anyone who's been around me over the last few months will know that every once in a while, I get kind of knocked off axis by these comments. That's what we were talking about before when we were shooting the bow is

finding the center, right? When you know your center, then if you get knocked off, it's just an inch. It's not a yard. It's real easy to find that home space back again. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot there. I'm thinking of, you know, a quote that Paul Cech says a lot. I don't think it's from him. It might've been Einstein or somebody like that, but pioneers and trailblazers are the

ones that have the most arrows in their backs. Right? You got to. Yeah. You've got to. And I think it means you're doing something right. If you're not getting hate, you're not doing something right. You've got to be, you've got to be out there pressing the boundary, but that's, that, that goes against our human psyche. So we have to create this new psyche as humans and realize, wow, in the society in which we live now, if you're not getting negative feedback, you're doing the wrong thing and try and take that as a positive thing. And I have to thank a lot of people that have been negative toward me over the last, you know, a couple of years that I've been developing these ideas around a carnivore diet and they've helped kind of like steer me. And I researched that more, researched this more, but not letting it get to us and not letting us knock us off the

center is crucial. It's crazy stuff though. Yeah though yeah well you look fucking fantastic you've leaned out you're you're more veiny i too am more veiny even though that's not a measure of uh overall health i didn't get it as the vein metric nobody with veins like this who's more vascular nobody with veins like this gets bad coronavirus that is scientifically proven fact yeah i bet i bet that does follow that curve on the chart might follow pretty well. Not varicose, but healthy veins. I've taken this time to, and I know there's quite a few people who listen to the show that have also thought along these lines, yourself included. I'm just looking at you. I can tell. Taking this time for ourselves to really dial in what are the practices that we want to do

that make me enjoy life whether i'm in my house or you know surfing and even though surfing got taken away from you guys in california for the first week or two that wasn't so really like the things that that bring us joy that are good that that seep into all areas of life and i want to get into that but first let's dive in to really what you've seen through the arc of this corona talk because um you know if you listen to everything which i try to minimally i've tried to microdose every side of the equation i don't want to be an ostrich with his head in the sand but at the same time if i go down the rabbit hole on new world order or government surveillance or any of these things it doesn't leave me in a good space

it doesn't what information do i bring in that leaves me more holding when i started right if i if i use that rule of thumb and everything that i do in life will this leave me more holding when i started then i can't dive too deep into the negative um i lost uh i have a friend that i that i went to high school with his father was our superintendent he passed away on a ventilator i know people that have died not many but i know a couple of people who have died kalindi i the guy who got me to do 30 grams of mushrooms he passed away from coronavirus or or related right and i want to talk the related because i know that's a big part of this sure how they count the death tolls all those things but um

so while well i guess what i'm getting to here in a fucking roundabout way is while acknowledging the dead and while acknowledging this thing does take its toll on people there's a whole other side of that coin that maybe quite a few people aren't going to see their deathbeds from this maybe quite a few people aren't going to see their deathbeds from this. Maybe quite a few people aren't going to be impacted even that bad at all from it. The vast majority. Yeah. So let's just jump right in here. What have you seen? I know you study things as diligently and as hardcore as fucking anyone I've ever met. And I know you've been looking at this carefully. I try. And the caveat is, of course, I'm not an epidemiologist. I am a medical doctor. So maybe take it for what it's worth. I'm not a

virologist. I'm not an immunologist. I'm not an infectious disease specialist. But I think all the voices are valuable. And I do look at this from a critical eye. And I do look at this from both a medical perspective and from an immunologic perspective based on what I know and what I think about. And I do try to think about things from my perspective and I tend to think about things differently than other people a lot of the time. So perhaps that's valuable if people believe that. I think that the question that everyone is wrestling with is what is this and how will it affect me and my family?

And what is it? It's this unnamed specter. This is the chupacabra, right? This is, we canacabra, right? We can't see it. And no one ever will. This is like an assassin Sasquatch. And we're just trying to figure out, is it two feet tall?

Is it six inches tall? Is it seven feet tall? What is this? And how is it going to affect us as humans? And how does it change our lives? And that's what we're still trying to figure out. And so everybody wants to know the identity of coronavirus. Who is coronavirus? This is also the usual suspects. And who is Kaiser Sose, right? Who is the villain here? What is this? And it's a bunch of blind men. It's thousands and thousands of blind men with their,

you know, their hands on the elephant saying, here's a trunk, here's a hoof, here's a butt, here's a toenail. And everyone's trying to piece this together and understand how we move forward with this chupacabra. Like, what the heck is it? Is it just like something we've seen before? Is it truly different? What does it tell us about ourselves? What does it tell us about the health of our people? And how should it affect the way we live our lives? Because what do we know? This is not the first infectious disease humans have ever suffered from, right? There have been bad ones like the bubonic plague, which is Yersinia pestis, you know, from, you know, I think it was 1300 around when it happened.

And then there have been flus every year that claim lives. Spanish flu, big one. Spanish flu in 1918 claimed lives. That was a really bad flu, right? And then we have bad flus 2008, 2009 was a bad flu year. We see flu years where people die, you know, in the tens of thousands. And above more than 60,000 can die in a bad flu year. So what is this? What are we dealing with?

Is this like something we've seen? We're out in the wilderness. We know that we're in the Amazon. There's a jaguar. Is this like a super jaguar? Or is this like a jaguar, you know, like we're like a tribe. And we're just trying to come together as a human tribe without killing each other and understand the threat that is upon us. Is this a new species? And clearly it's a new novel virus, but what does

it look like? And so we're all kind of looking at it differently and we're trying to piece together epidemiology, which is notoriously inaccurate and notoriously mushy and not hard science. And, you know, at a very visceral level, we know that people are dying of coronavirus. That's undeniable. And I don't think anyone is saying that. And I think that no matter where you fall on the coronavirus opinion perspective, I don't think anyone is denying that there's suffering involved with this. And we're all just trying to put it in perspective and understand how we best move forward as a larger human tribe, as individual smaller human tribes, so that we can be as happy and healthy as we can be, you know, as possible into 2021, into 2025, into 2030, 2050. And, you know, I think a lot of people are calling,

you know, attention to the fact this has many levels of scale, right? There's one level of scale of the individual, and there's another level of scale of the economy. And there's another level of scale of a country. And there's this level of scale of little micro climates, New York or Detroit or Louisiana or places like, there are plenty of towns in Texas and California where there's not a bad coronavirus issue. So there's all these different scales and we can zoom in and we can zoom out. But overall, I think that everyone is being affected. I think I'll say most broadly, what I see happening is that people are being affected by the news cycle. And then the corollary question with that becomes, how accurate is that? And how much do we listen to that? The story on the news is this is a really fricking bad

chupacabra, right? And so that's what we're being told. Then the main question is, is it really, or is it not? And the news can say, there was this villager in this tribe that got eaten by this bad guy. And yeah, that might be true. And you've had people who have died in your life from this, but what does it mean? And how does it compare to other things we've seen? And I think those are the most important big questions. Is this like a jaguar that we've seen in the jungle before? Is this something completely way more virulent, way more deadly? We have to evolve and totally change our strategy.

And what does it tell us about our vulnerabilities also? We've got a tribe on the river, like how are we vulnerable to this animal? So again, I think that the media perspective is that this is a real bad guy. And my perspective is that that is a lot of inaccurate, fear-mongering reporting. And that's not too much of a stretch when we think about what the media exists to do. Yeah. And what it's been in the past.

Yes. Or ever. The media is loving this. And that's the first point I'll make that Fox News, CNN, whatever side of the political equation you're on, and I'm not going to take sides on that at any point. They're all benefiting from this wildly because there are more eyeballs on the TV now than there have been probably ever before. And there's no sports to watch or anything else. So everyone's just consuming more news. Right. And what's between the news? There's commercials. And so then you think, okay, let's just think about that. Like

the news is loving this. The news is loving this. All they're reporting, they're working overtime. They're doing 24 hour cycles. They're going crazy. They're loving it. At the end of the day, the news media outlets have gotten revitalized by this. And so that in and of itself should raise an eyebrow. Like how accurate is their reporting? Before coronavirus, I don't think anyone would raise an eyebrow if you said the news media is not so accurate

with their reporting, whether you believe in fake news or not, whether you're on Trump's side or the other side. People have to admit that both conservative and liberal news media outlets, even outlets down the middle, often do not report things accurately. So that's a dangerous thing. And now we're in the time of coronavirus when a lot is on the line, there must be some acceptance of the idea that perhaps the news media is not telling us the full story or is changing the story. And so much of our perception of this is going to be what we hear because how many of us are actually on the front line in the hospital?

And even if you're on the front line in a hospital, that's just your little microcosm. Does that mean you know what's happening in all the hundreds of thousands of hospitals throughout the United States? Does that mean you understand what's happening in all the hospitals across the world? So no one person can really claim to understand the entirety of what this beast is, this beast or this sort of predator is. We don't really know. But it's a challenging thing for us to kind of integrate. So we ask the news to do that. And then we think, what if the news is not really telling us the right thing, right? They want us to tune in. So that's the first thing to think about. Then I think, like I said before, the second thing to think about is that we all want to move forward in the best way we can as humans. We all

want to save lives. We all want these things. And this goes back to the tribalism idea that we were talking about a little bit earlier. As humans in the time of crisis, I think we divide into tribes. And there are going to be people who say, these are my people. These people believe what I believe. Therefore, I have to believe what they believe. And if you counter contradict one thing they're saying, they're going to denounce you because we're in a panic stage right now, probably because of the news media. We're in a hysteria. If this were just a newspaper based thing, or this were, you know, maybe 1950, I don't think it would look like this. I just don't think radio and television communications would have been the same. I don't think our newspapers would have been able to carry information in the same way. And so we have to imagine or believe or

accept that we were swept up in something that's pretty, pretty, pretty intense right now. And we need to kind of think about where the currents are going and what the reality is of all of it. So it's a challenging time. I was kind of rambling. I think I'll just say that the arc that I have seen of this, like I said, starts with the media. We're trying to see what the reality is. One of the things we're realizing is that the predictions that we have heard are constantly being adjusted and they're being adjusted down, which is good news. And then the narrative coming from that is, is that because of anything we're doing or is that because we got them wrong in the first place? And both of those are possibilities, and so

we can get into all of that. So the arc has been, this is going to be a horrible, horrible chupacabra. This is the worst thing we've ever seen. It's going to kill millions to, okay, we've seen this before, to maybe this isn't as bad as we thought it was, or we did all these things that are going to have massive economic consequences, but they were necessary because they saved us all these lives. But can we really substantiate that? So you let me know what part of that you want to dive down into deeper, but that's kind of how I see it happening right now. And I think a lot of people can kind of sense that right now we're starting to come out of this, whether it's

just social or political, like things are changing. I think people are realizing like it's time to change something at this point, April 28th or 27th, you know, 2020, like we're starting to shift and people are saying, well, I didn't die. You know, I mean, three or four weeks ago, people were saying there's going to be, you know, a hundred thousand deaths by April the 11th. Well, that didn't, that didn't happen. It definitely didn't happen. And they were saying it's doubling every three to four days and it's not, that's not happening either.

So the death predictions are going way, way down. So we're saying maybe this is a smaller beast than we thought it was, but, but what does that mean for the future? So, yeah. Yeah. I like that. Something that's coming up for me is like, just from a, from a conceptual standpoint on, we'll look back on, excuse me, we'll look back on many things with this. And especially

because Trump's in office, love him or hate him, with a fine tooth comb to see where were the errors made? What, what decisions did we make that should have been remedied? What were good in the ways we can do this going forward? If we ever need to quarantine again, those kinds of things, what do we learn from this? And I one thing uh that we're going to have to think about is did going inside actually prevent this prevent us from building some type of immunity to it that's something i've been thinking about is and not just me fucking many people but is hiding from this the best way to get out of it? And this goes back to something that I talked with you about the first time we met, that buffalo

medicine, right? The Native American wisdom of the buffalo. When the storm comes, the buffalo get side by side and they go head first into the storm. And the reason for that is if they try to outrun the storm, they stay in the storm longer. The fastest way through the storm is head first. So they get shoulder to shoulder and the whole herd goes head first into it against the wind, against the snow. And we didn't do that. And I think a big reason for that was because of the thought process around overclocked hospitals, not being able to put up pop-up hospitals and things like that. But really, you know, the people forget what our ingenuity is they forget the gift of humanity and clearly if people who haven't been to burning man don't know what you

can construct in a matter of fucking weeks right like you can build a hospital that's fully functioning maybe you don't have enough ventilators maybe that's another issue supply and demand i don't know but they have been able to construct hospitals on the fly if needed at a fucking giant stadium like where the 49ers play in santa clara shit like that like those things are more doable than people think they are but all that to say did we avoid getting immune to this and is there backlash from that in the future because of it or is that something we don't even really need to worry about because as we as this thing starts to settle down, we come to realize that, look, there's more deaths from influenza each year. There's more deaths from a lot of other flus each year. This is a great

question, man. So many of these have so many different corollary rabbit holes or connected rabbit holes that we can go down. But I think that probably subconsciously, I was channeling a little bit of that conversation with you throughout all this because I was imagining the same image that we had talked about. And you're reminding me of that now. And I don't think I remembered it, but I was thinking the same thing. It doesn't feel right that we're turning and running from this. Why are we not facing this head on as a population? Why would we ever not do that?

Why would we ever choose to run from any storm? Why would we not just say, look, we're choose to run from any storm? Why would we not just say, look, we're going to move through the storm. We're going to take casualties. There's a new predator on the Savannah. We're going to lose people. That happens all the time. That is part of death. That's part of the circle of life, right? There's death in life. But the best thing for our collective population, for our tribe is to move through this head on. And it brings up all these other questions, like you're saying. As much as I've been wrestling with this idea of social distancing and quarantine,

the only way it makes sense is if we prevent healthcare overwhelm. And if you look at the graphs, people will see the sharp bell curve and the more sort of gradual bell curve. And the dotted line there is healthcare system capacity. The whole point, the whole theory of social distancing is to not overwhelm the healthcare system.

And if we are not overwhelming the healthcare system, the area under both of those curves theoretically is exactly the same, which means if you do calculus and you take the integral and you calculate the area under those curves, it's exactly the same. The volume, if you poured water into both of those curves, the exact same volume is in them, which means that based on those models, the same number of people get exposed to coronavirus, whether you do slow or fast. And presumably, if there's no magical therapy, vaccine, medication, whatever, the same number of people die, right, from coronavirus in both of those scenarios. And I think that there's some collective consciousness now that is false,

that by social distancing, by quarantining, we are preventing people from getting coronavirus in the long term, or that we are decreasing the area under the curve. And we just don't know that. We really cannot say that. This is a respiratory virus that lives on surfaces that most people are probably going to be exposed to by almost all virological model. And if that's the case, then the number of deaths will probably be the same overall, whether we do it one way or the other. Yeah. Whether it's trickled out over the next five years or whether it's all in one whack. Exactly. And again, it makes sense to me, don't overwhelm the healthcare system.

And there are certain microcosms, certain contagions where this is more of an issue than another. New York. Yes. or cause them certain contagions where this is more of an issue than another. New York, yes, New York had a political system that had probably done a great job of making their hospital system pretty much on the brink of being overwhelmed even before this happened because of funding. And that's all these political issues, right? So the overwhelming healthcare in New York was very real. In other parts of the country, probably not so much. And if we're talking about ventilators as the actual arbiter here, 80% of people who go on ventilators die on the ventilator. Yeah. Then I want to pick your brain on that too, because there was that doctor in New York who,

as Rob Wolf pointed out, was erroneously linked to the 5G talk, even though he had nothing, it was not a part of his conversation. But basically what he was saying is that Corona is not behaving like a typical pneumonia and ventilators are not helping them or actually hurting the lungs. The lung tissue is not improving perfusion of oxygen because it may have something more to do with hemoglobin carrying the oxygen than the lungs working effectively themselves. It's a complex thing. And like I said, it is a new predator on the horizon. And so we put people on ventilators when they have this condition called ARDS, acute respiratory distress syndrome, which is really, in some ways, it's a pulmonologic, you know, it's a respiratory diagnosis based on the way your oxygen saturation looks, but it's also a visual diagnosis being made

based on a CT scan of the way lungs look. But if it's a different pathology underneath there and it doesn't respond the way to ventilation, we have a very inefficacious, we have a very poorly efficacious therapy in ventilation. And for people to say, ventilators, we need more ventilators. We're spending millions and tens of millions, probably hundreds of millions of dollars

on ventilators right now, which may not really save that many lives. And all these conversations have to be able to be held at an objective level without people saying, that's crass. You want people to die? No one wants people to die. We're all trying to figure out how to move the buffalo herd through the storm in the best way. We don't want to lose any buffalo, but we're going to lose buffalo. So how do we lose the least buffalo and make the herd as strong as possible in the longterm? So we have to be able to have these conversations and people cannot get triggered or should not get triggered by me saying, you know, like there are people that are going to die no matter what we do, but ventilators, very poorly effective people

with coronavirus. Perhaps we'll find the new drug. We don't have anything right now that I'm aware of. Remdesivir is this, you know, nucleoside reverse, you know, nucleoside analog that looked promising. And then the follow-up trials didn't look good. Hydroxychloroquine didn't look good. So all of our social distancing has bought us maybe potentially possibly bought us time. We've got no new drugs and we have created a huge economic burden and perhaps we didn't really save any lives or we, you know, the, the, the trade-off might not have been worth it in the end. So then the questions are, does social distancing save lives?

Number one, we can talk about that. And then what did we do? And I love that you brought up the idea of hospitals and pop-up hospitals. Maybe the most effective thing for people was just going to be supplemental oxygen. And that might've been much easier to do than we thought. And we didn't need a ventilator and ventilators weren't really going to save lives. And we absolutely could have had pop-up tents and we didn't need to do all this. Or maybe we should have just let everyone move through the storm. Or maybe we should have done some calculation based on how big the inoculum was in a certain area and done

as much as we could to slow the spread in places like New York or Chicago or Michigan. But in other places, maybe just let it ride and let us all be exposed to coronavirus because that's what's going to happen eventually for most of us. And as you suggested, if we prolong the curve too much, are we hurting things? We need to be able to ask these questions. Is herd immunity, is the way forward the idea that most of us will be exposed and the way to protect those who are most vulnerable is for those of us who are healthy to actually develop immunity and then it won't be touching my parents or your parents or you know that's a possibility too and we need to be able

to talk about this and understand that this is a very complex equation yeah it is it is complex i will say uh one of the thoughts that popped into my head on, you know, if we hiding from this leads to further quarantines and things like that and further economic downfall and people just end up getting in anyways. There's a couple of pieces that actually gave me not, not, not only hope, but kind of a green light in the sense of we're, we're fine. One of them was from a conservative online paper that my buddy's a Republican.

He sent to me and he was basically stating that the one thing, the one business model that has the most foot traffic out of any business has remained open, grocery stores. All of them have remained open. For the first three weeks in Austin, we weren't required to wear masks some people did i didn't i'm not fucking worried just walking around my pregnant wife was not

wearing a mask again really not worried i mean really not worried because we're healthy and we walk through whole foods and you know some people tried to fucking stay six feet away but you're down a grocery aisle like you're not going to be six feet away, but you're down a grocery aisle. Like you're not going to be six feet away from people. People are looking at grapes. They don't like it. They move to the next grape. Nobody's wearing gloves. You're going to fucking, you're passing shit along. We would have seen this thing go through the roof. If that, if it spread the way that people were hypothesizing that it spread we would have seen uh pretty much you know a whole industry of grocery store employees fucked if this thing was as bad as

as people say it is and this is what this guy's pointing out you know and obviously really calling for the economy to move forward people start moving back and there's a lot of states that are doing that i think um is it may 1 1st, Ryan? Texas is going to start opening up quite a few businesses. First week of May, something like that. And then June, they estimate full rollout of all stores. But point being, I think that's a really important piece to look at there. Like, hey, yeah, we went in quarantine. We did these things, but we're also still around each other in a fucking grocery store and not all of them are 30,000 square foot whole foods with high ceilings well ventilated and all that other shit and people that eat organic food a lot of them are your you know your shitty

inorganic eaters shitty inorganic foods and you're bumping up shoulders with each other and all the other stuff and we didn't see the outbreak we thought we would. So there's a, I totally agree with you. There's a couple of really interesting models out there that we can use to get a sense of this. And I think that they, to me, they all point in the same direction. And that direction is that there's a much bigger number of people that have already been exposed, that the asymptomatic rates are very high, and that a lot of people who get exposed don't even get sick, don't even harbor the virus, don't even show positives. And they make the, what we call the denominator, right?

The denominator, the capital D denominator everyone's talking about right now in the calculation of the case fatality rate potentially much larger. So there's two ships we've looked at. The Diamond Princess is this cruise line. Did you hear about this? And the USS Theodore Roosevelt. Didn't the Diamond Princess pull into Oakland?

It might have. I think my dad was getting, he flew back from India. He did a month satsang with Mooji. Super dope. But yeah, all this shit was unfolding while he was gone, you know, dipping into bliss and awareness and enlightenment. And then he comes back, he flew into Oakland and he had heard everything coming through. But yeah. So the Diamond Princess was about 3, 3 500 people and who goes on cruise ships we can look at the average age it's much higher of people on cruise ships there's young people there but a lot of times it's skewed to people who are a little bit older potentially a little bit less metabolically healthy that is the gentlest way i have ever heard that stated we try we try right but i mean if you mean, I've never been on a

cruise, but if you see pictures of people on cruises, right, they're not exactly, unless it's a cruise of like Ironman participants or your tribe, right? It's not the most healthy people you've ever seen. So it's just, you know, we're talking in terms of numbers here and trying to get some data to give us some way forward because we have to get a way forward. And you got to think like a Diamond Princess is like a grocery store, but like even more packed. Talk about a lot of foot traffic. 3,500 people on a ship that shares a ventilation system, right? They're below decks. It's not like an airplane, but it's kind of close. It's a lot better than a Whole Foods in terms of spreading a virus.

I haven't heard any virologists or epidemiologists or infectious disease specialists say this, but I just can't imagine that the vast majority of people on the Diamond Princess did not get exposed, come into contact with coronavirus. That is, get SARS-CoV-2 on their hand, touch their face, get the virus in their posterior pharynx and their throat and have the virus inside of them, right? How could you possibly be on a ship where there's an outbreak and not see the virus when you're sharing the same overhead ventilation system, when you're below decks, when everyone is walking around the ship and this is before everything explodes, right? So they're not sanitizing everything like crazy.

They can't possibly clean every restroom handle. They can't possibly clean every doorknob all the time. They can't possibly clean every doorknob all the time. They can't possibly clean everything in the ship. I think the vast majority of people on the Diamond Princess got exposed to coronavirus. When they tested, they tested everyone on the ship, right? Like 20% were positive for coronavirus with RT-PCR, which is the reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction looking for RNA in the posterior pharynx. And we have to have conversations about the sensitivity and specificity of that test. But those aside for now,

the majority of people didn't actually show up positive for coronavirus on the ship. Well, that's interesting. And then of the people who were positive, 60% were asymptomatic. So you have this pretty darn good Petri dish. Assume 85 plus percent of people got exposed to it. 20% show up positive. 60% of those are asymptomatic. Asymptomatic, these are known positives RT-PCR. 60% are asymptomatic. And of the 40% who are symptomatic, or I should say of the 20% who got positives, there was a 2% case fatality rate, which is kind of high. But you think that's a group of people who are kind of low, but that's only a 2% case fatality rate of the people who were positive, not of the whole ship, right? You take the 20%,

you multiply it by five and you say, oh, now you're down to, you know, now you're less than 0.5% case fatality rate if everyone on the ship actually got exposed. So the numbers expand and contract based on what we're doing with the virus exposure. You almost see the exact same pattern on the USS Theodore Roosevelt, with one exception, and that's the case fatality rate because you have a much younger population. So US, it's an aircraft carrier from the Navy. It's over 5,000 sailors. You imagine the whole ship got exposed. I mean, these are sailors. You can even make a better case. They're all touching each other and drinking and they're in close quarters and they're bunking in the same room. You cannot tell me that the

majority of people on the USS Theodore Roosevelt did not come in contact with coronavirus. They're in bunk rooms for God's sake, right? They're definitely sharing. I was on the USS Nassau, I think back in 2010 or 2011 off the coast of Djibouti in Africa. And there was a thousand Navy and a thousand Marine on the same ship. And in the sleeping quarters, they had like a one inch thick mat. And I have, I mean, I have always had respect for the men and women in armed forces, but like, I was like, fuck, this is, this takes takes it to a new level like on a two inch jujitsu mat on floor level that's one bed then like two feet above it another and there was four beds in this super like i had it was fucking i mean no ceiling no overhead space at all it was so thin i slid into one of the beds you pick the side the majority of people when they go to bed they pick the side that they're going to sleep on, up or down,

because you don't get to transition unless you get out of bed. That's how tight it is in there. Right? Yeah. Just paint a picture of what that looks like for people that have never been on a ship like that. It's sardines.

It's literal sardines. There's no way that those sailors did not all get exposed to coronavirus. I mean, I just don't see it. Again, less than 20% are exposed to coronavirus. I mean, I just don't see it. Again, less than 20% are positive for coronavirus. RT-PCR, pharyngeal swab. They tested every single person on the ship. I think Maythorov probably says 95%. Essentially, they tested almost every single person, every single man and woman on the ship, 95% are positive. I mean, excuse me, 20% are positive. Again, 60% asymptomatic, 60% asymptomatic. And of the people they tested,

only one or two out of the 600 actually went to the hospital and died, right? So we have a 0.17% case fatality rate on that ship. So to me, that's like, those are two really good petri dishes, which tell us, okay, number one, probably the vast majority, more than half the people that actually would be RT-PCR positive for coronavirus are going to be asymptomatic, right? Of that, a very small percentage are going to go to the hospital depending on your age and comorbidities. And we can talk about how that's really the crux of this conversation, that it's about your health. That's the real determining factor. I think that the conventional media narrative that healthy

people are dying from this is fear-mongering in the most sinister sense of the word. But we have a case fatality rate between 0.17 and 0.2% between these two ships, but that doesn't even take into account all the people that got exposed that weren't actually positive. So you can just look at orders of magnitude of these numbers and say, what's going on here? A lot more people have been exposed than believe it. A lot more people are asymptomatic and can be carriers and spread it, whether that's good or bad, we can discuss. Because if you're an asymptomatic carrier and you're spreading it, are you spreading a lower viral load? Is it better to be exposed to a lower viral load? Probably. If you look at healthcare workers, that's probably the saddest

story. The healthcare workers who are getting exposed to higher viral loads, they may actually be suffering the worst. It probably makes more sense. Or you can make an actual legitimate case, is what I'm trying to make right now. It's better to be exposed to a low viral load of the virus than a high viral load of the virus, right? You don't want to get exposed in the hospital. Yeah, microdose it, build the antibodies. Right? You know, this is what we did with smallpox in the time of the Revolutionary War.

This is variolation. Smallpox is called variola. And they used to take a small dose and put it under the skin. That's variolation. And they, still a lot of people died because smallpox was very bad, but a lot less people died

than would have died from that, from the actual full infection of smallpox. They eventually developed a vaccine or some sort of other inoculum that was better. But I guess I'd have to think of the timing on that. But it was George Washington, I believe, doing variolation on his troops. And there's some history there that I'm not fully up on, but that was how we did it. So do you want a smaller inoculum? That probably makes sense. How do you get a smaller inoculum? You live your life in a normal setting. You get exposed outdoors. You get exposed in a grocery store. You get a small inoculum and that's probably the best way to get exposed if we're all going to get exposed anyway. So all these conversations are so fascinating, but you can look at these plants.

There was a pork plant, I think in Ohio that had an outbreak or something. And it was the same kind of things. Like there's, it looks like for everyone that gets exposed, only a fraction are going to show up positive. And what happens to that 80% who didn't even show up positive? Did they just clear it? They not even, they weren't even susceptible. You know, that's such an interesting virological conversation, but then the majority are asymptomatic. And then the last piece of this that I'll talk about is that there are studies now in Iceland, it's probably the best one, and people can find this online. They looked at the population of Iceland and they were finding that I think something like 85% to 90% were asymptomatic or were positive, but didn't have any symptoms. And that's in Iceland. You're thinking, wow,

that's a pretty big number. Well, the Nordic countries are a little bit, I mean, I shouldn't say a little bit, they're a lot of it healthier. Yeah, yeah. They have way better government control over what's allowed to be in the food supply. There's no aspartame. Any children's, anything that's marketed to kids cannot have artificial flavoring, coloring, sweeteners, any of that shit. Like Kraft Mac and Cheese had to change its fucking formula to get in. And they had to use, I think, Anato as a food coloring instead of Yellow 5 in their mac and cheese in order to sell in countries like Sweden and Norway. And they did it and they sell

it there. But that's the government looking out for you. Our government's for hire. It doesn't work that way. Yeah. And this, I think, is where it gets to be very interesting. What is different about Germany? What is different about Iceland? What is different about these countries where we're seeing the epidemiology look differently? And I think a lot of times you can make a real case that it's the health of the population and whether that's a zeitgeist within the population to be outside more, to eat more animal foods,

to eat less processed food overall. I mean, look at what people eat in Iceland. You know, there's probably less processed food. We could do the numbers. We could make the case for this. You know, look at the obesity rates. Look at the rates- Northern Italy is like a smoke haven. Right. T could do the numbers. We could make the case for this. Look at the obesity rates. Look at the rates- Northern Italy is like a smoke haven. Right. Tons of smokers.

Exactly. Look at the obesity rates in the US. Look at the rates of diabetes. Look at the rates of these chronic diseases here versus there. Could that be accounting for this? Yes. And then we're saying, okay, chupacabra looks different now. It's still coming for us, but it's coming for those of us with diabetes. It's coming for those of us with insulin resistance. It's still coming for us, but it's coming for those of us with diabetes. It's coming for those of us with insulin resistance. It's coming for those of us with nutrient-poor diets. Oh, that's all changeable, right? That's totally changeable. That means hunt better. Eat better food, you guys. And that's not been part of the narrative at all. And that's what is so frustrating for me about the mainstream narrative right now. This is a, quote, healthy person in New York

who died from the virus. It's not, whoa, healthy person in New York who died from the virus. It's not, whoa, you guys, look at all these studies coming out of New York and China, which exist showing that comorbidities are 8 to 10x the risk for coronavirus or severe COVID-19. Not for contracting the virus. We all potentially have the same risk of contracting the virus. But who gets severe COVID-19 disease? 8 to 10x, if you've got these issues, right? If you're one of the tribe that's like, not playing by the rules or not, you know, not supporting, not pulling your weight,

not hunting, not having a good diet, you're gonna get picked off by this predator, man. You're the slowest, weakest member of the tribe. And that's not to say that I'm trying to be crass. I'm just saying that's what the predators come for. And that's the conversation that I wish it would be. I've not seen one article in the New York Times, maybe your listeners will be able to correct me, or one article in the Wall Street Journal saying, I want to see the headline, the real pandemic is metabolic disease. That's what we're worried about right now. And if this is just a

virus that exposes how unhealthy we are, that's a completely different narrative than this is the baddest chupacabra we've ever seen. Maybe this is just the guy that says, hey, you guys are unhealthy as shit, right? And in Iceland, like we're seeing all these different rates. So yeah, maybe the asymptomatic rate in our population is 60%. Maybe in theirs it's 85 to 90% because they're so much more healthy and they can deal with so much better. Regardless, I think we know that a lot more people have been exposed or asymptomatic than the numbers are saying. So that starts to make it shrink him.

You know, we're just, all we're doing, this is the arc. We're shrinking it. It gets smaller and smaller. And the last thing I'll say is just that it's shrinking, you know, the predator is shrinking. But the other narrative that really is bothering me is the narrative that it's shrinking because of social distancing. And I think that is very premature. You know, whether you love Trump or hate Trump, there was the narrative, 2 million people are going to die. I think Trump even said, we saved 2 million people. That's complete horseshit. There's no way that you can say that we saved 2 million people from this virus, especially if the area under the curve is the

same for both. The same amount of people will probably die in fact you can make a reasonably reasonable case that more people will die now well why would he say that i mean if you have your head screwed on it's election time exactly nobody needs them fucking nobody wants to make mistakes now nobody wants an overreaction and it's bad either way you cut it if you're too hard on it and you pull every everyone back from the workforce and tank the economy, you're fucked up. If you're too soft on it and you let everybody fucking go out and everybody dies on your hands, then that's a fucking problem, right? So I get it.

I get it. And I'm not upset by that. I think that this was the only viable political strategy was what we did. The only viable political strategy. Not the only viable medical strategy, the only viable political strategy was to be as conservative as we reasonably could be before humans revolted. And then to say, hey, look, we had to tank the economy because 2 million people were going to die when that's not even supported by science at all. We cannot say that at all. In fact, that's not supported by any model that I've seen. It's basically us saying,

oh, this is a lot smaller beast than we thought it was, but we didn't know what to do. And so, and we realized that if they did nothing, that would have been a political bloodbath. That would have been triage deaths that were attributable to any administration. I think every politician would have done the same thing. And we have to admit that as a society,

we're driven by politics and we're driven by the way it looked and we're in an election year. And that there was no that as a society, we're driven by politics and we're driven by the way it looked and we're in election year. And that there was no, I don't think there was any way we were gonna get out of this without this happening, which, you know, perhaps that makes the conversation moot, but I think we still need to be honest

about what was driving it. And how to move forward. Because if we did the right thing, then we move forward in a different way. If we didn't do the right thing, or if we did something that really just tanked the economy and didn't save lives, we need to know that the next time. And we open the doors a little differently this time. And we say, hey, we need to be, you know, our strategy becomes completely

different for how we get out of this quarantine and out of this lockdown situation. But yeah, there's a huge political agenda here. You can't deny that. No doubt. But can you imagine the bloodbath? Can you imagine the political suicide that it would have been to say we're not going to do anything about this and then 80 000 people die and it's oh my god you know 80 000 people you know you kill these people like but you you do the social distancing and 80 000 people die and we'll never we'll never know right but you can look at other countries like sweden and i think this is what people are starting to do. It's a little premature, but I think that when it's all said and done, the difference, and again, this is just my conjecture, but we're starting to see indications of this with the data. When it's all said and done,

when we're six to eight months beyond this, we will see per capita death rates that are variable between countries and reflect and correlate the health of the population and are correlated to how many elderly people there are, where they live, how cloistered they are, how closely they all live together. Okay. Yeah, whether they live in nursing homes and they're more susceptible to something

that's going to be very communicable, whether they live on aircraft carriers, quote unquote, or whether they're spread out and how healthy the population is. But I think we'll start to see the numbers actually start to look very similar between countries that sheltered and countries that didn't. And there's already people saying that. You can look at models that have already been calculated to say, you can look across states that sheltered quickly and didn't, and the death rates are all over the map. There's really no correlation between states that went hard on shelter in place real fast

and states that didn't, which either suggests that they were way too late and they didn't get out in front of it or that sheltering in place doesn't really affect anything because you're all touching each other anyway. You're all at the grocery store. You're still in the fucking grocery store.

Yeah, you're still in the grocery store, man. You're still passing it around. You really think that plexiglass thing between me and the guy is really going to change a whole lot or these these loose ass fitting masks that allow you to breathe fresh air out of the side of your mouth like that's not just fucking pumping stuff out of the sides like like like steam coming out of your ears on a cartoon like that's exactly how people wear them i see very few people having them on tight and to be clear i don't wear masks i'm not

wearing a mask right now it doesn't fucking matter yeah but but yeah and so i mean there's there's there's much we're learning in this but one of the key elements here is my favorite quote from paul check sooner or later your health will become your number one concern it either happens right now where you make it your number one priority or it happens on your fucking deathbed at least now and there's many things i think of on a spiritual level happening globally for us not just uh uh vital just talked about this what the hell's his name let me pull it up here we'll link to this in the show notes he talks a lot about his singing career which uh i don't find too interesting but um let's see here dr joe vitale he's actually in texas uh he was on london real fantastic dude he was in the secret which you know ruffles some people's

feathers but um he's he's a really intelligent dude and um fuck i totally forget where i was going with this what were we just talking about right before Joe Vitale? The bandanas and the masks and whether it was going to make a difference. And God damn it, I lost it. All right. It's all good. I'll talk about the masks and we'll see if you get the thought coming back. But you know that one of the other farces for me, farces, farcicles, is that, you know, a surgical mask isn't going to prevent really a spread, right?

What it will do is prevent you from coughing droplets onto someone. But if you are not actively coughing, there's still respiratory droplets coming outside of the surgical mask. It's a pretty low cost intervention and it's pretty reasonable. It doesn't have a lot of downside. But for people to imagine that a surgical mask is going to prevent this is not supported by the science. You can breathe in from the sides. This is a very small respiratory virus that can come in. Unless you're wearing an N95 respirator, you can inhale the air in the grocery store. And a bandana does less than nothing, meaning that by touching the bandana and then touching your hand, you've now put whatever is on your hand on the bandana, right? So the bandana is so porous that every bit of air

that you're inhaling is coming through the bandana. It has to be a huge- All your saliva and moisture coming out of your mouth is on the bandana. Just touch your mouth at Burning Man. You know it's there. Yeah, a bandana can stop a sand particle, but a viral particle of coronavirus

is tens of thousands of times smaller than a sand particle. A bandana works for sand at Burning Man in Black Rock City. It doesn't work for anything else. It works for dirt and sand. It doesn't work for anything smaller than that. Walking around a grocery store with a bandana is a farce. It's so silly. And the fact that we're allowing that, I went into a grocery store in San Diego and they said, oh, you got to have something around your face. And I was like, well, I don't have a mask. Do you guys have masks? We don't have masks. Okay. Well you can, they said, you can do this. You can put your shirt up like this over your nose. And I thought, this is really what we're doing. This is just pomp and

circumstance. This doesn't make any sense. This doesn't change anything. Right. In fact, it's probably worse because I'm now I'm touching my face. It's on my hand. And I see people in the, in the airport and this isn't to be a judgment. It's just to really spread the education. The point of wearing gloves is it's not, you're not going to get viral transmission through the squamous epithelium of your skin. It's not to prevent you. It's to prevent anything that might be on your hands from touching food or to prevent you from getting something on your hand. But you can achieve essentially the same thing with the respiratory virus with hand washing, right? So there's no magic to gloves. You'll see people in the grocery store. They're wearing gloves all the time. They wear gloves at

home. They wear the same pair of gloves. When we're in the hospital and we're seeing a patient, if I'm wearing gloves, I put on gloves before I go into the room and I take the gloves off when I come out of the room. So I'm not wearing my gloves around the hospital. You know, I see guys in the airport with gloves and I'm thinking, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense man you know like just trying to touch your face but there's no point a box of them in their carry-on yeah yeah unless you're changing your gloves all the time but it doesn't make sense to do that if you want to go to the grocery store you're going to put on the gloves before you go in and you're going to take them off before you leave the grocery store but if you touch your steering wheel with the gloves you've done it

doesn't nothing has changed you know you've just put viral particles on the steering wheel with the gloves, you've done, it doesn't, nothing has changed. You know, you've just put viral particles on the steering wheel. Now, whether or not that matters, you know, is a whole nother conversation that we've been talking about, but it is a lot of just for show happening right now with all of these. And more fear. It's one thing that I've noticed here is, you know, there's a lot of people at the parks. We go out to, I mean, before they closed Barton Springs springs we were swimming at barton springs uh you know for probably a month and they closed it now to be fair they closed it it looked like you know spring breakers there were a lot of uh metabolically unfit people there slamming beers like it was spring break so maybe that's not the population to be swimming with but

um they closed that zilker's still open there's fucking there's hundreds and hundreds of people out there every day of the fucking week we taught bear how to ride a bike we go ride by ladybird lake and uh pretty much like five days a week i'll go out with with christian and bear and i and riding and there's a ton of fit people doing yoga in the park some svelte ladies in bikinis which isn't too bad i mean there's a lot of good shit going on we should go there at some point but uh but um you know like people are still around one another and they might say oh shame on austin shame on austin for doing that it's like no no no like you're getting fucking sunlight so i guess i guess the point i was driving it to and then i'll and i remembered what i was going to talk about with joe vitale i knew it

is um you know the the check quote sooner later, your health becomes your number one concern. Let's talk about how we shift this conversation into how we tackle health and, and really what the coronavirus has meant on a global scale from a spiritual standpoint. And this might be something that I, you know, I'll just bring up Joe Vitale. I don't want to like, um, take a whole lot of time here, but what he said is exactly what I've been echoing through fit for service. And the clients that I have one-on-one is that globally we're being asked to go inside and it doesn't mean go inside your fucking house and shut your door. It means go inside yourself. Meditate. Can you fucking sit in your own skin? Now, a lot of people here that are really black and white and really

scientific materialists are going to listen to that and say, oh, you think meditation is going to get rid of Corona? No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is if you look at any pointer in life, when you're pointed in a certain direction, sometimes as Chuck says, the pain teacher will whisper in your ear. And sometimes the pain teacher is allowed knock at the door. And sometimes it knocks your whole fucking house down, right? Are you listening? The message here is go within. And we're seeing a lot of families start to realize, holy shit. It's a lot of dads who are gone all day realize it's a lot harder to parent my kid all day long. It's a lot harder to homeschool and they have a new appreciation for their wife, for the mother, for the matriarch.

We see full sides of the spectrum. Alcohol sales are up. Domestic violence is up. There's a lot of relationships that maybe were getting by before, but won't stand now. They cannot stand 24 seven around each other, right? Again, all of that, if you look from the soul perspective is medicine in some way, shape or form, but the going within. And, uh, I think that we can lead right into how do we figure out health? Because there are things that we need to change. There are fucking huge broken gaps in our systems from the economics to the finance finance system, to how we get our food to fucking who's who how the shift in finances has happened to this amazon hasn't been hurt by this there's a lot of a lot of

shifting corporations that are going on now and it's and it's not necessarily for the greater good but what are what is in our control and i think that's an important thing to look at here what is in our control and how do we actually get healthy so that we're not one of the people that dies from this? I love that you bring that up about going inside and going inside yourself. And I've often talked in my social media about how quarantine can be a downside. I love what Austin's doing. Some data came out recently about vitamin D levels. And in people who have vitamin D levels above, I think it was 32 nanograms per deciliter, I believe are the units they were using. The incidence of severe coronavirus was astronomically small, right? So we're right back

to this health conversation. And yet we're telling people to shelter in your home and you're getting Corona shamed for being out. They closed all the walking paths in San Diego. They closed all the beaches. They reopened today, but you're preventing people from being a normal human because you don't want them to contact coronavirus, a virus that they should probably be facing head on. When I posted about that on Twitter, I took a lot of flack. Doctors were saying, that's irresponsible.

And I said, I just couldn't believe that people were so short-sighted, so tribal. But there are downsides to quarantine. You put a human in a cave, you watch how unhealthy they become. You mentioned alcohol sales are up. So are processed food sales. Processed food sales have gone through the roof right now.

Everyone's ordering on Favor, DoorDash, Pizza. Pizza. You can see pizza all the time. Pizza all the time. I see people walking into my apartment complex with McDonald's and I'm thinking, this is not like, clearly there's a disconnect here. You're sheltering in place in your home and eating McDonald's. This is wrong, right?

And for me, it comes back to a couple of things. Who is thriving? What industries are thriving right now? And this is probably the saddest part of coronavirus. Junk food, news media, and they're connected. And I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. I don't like to go down to these places. I'm never going to talk about the deep state on my podcast or any of these things. I don't like to get so negative. Talk about it on mine, baby. I don't even know about the deep state enough to really even say anything about it.

But I don't think it's conspiracy theory to suggest that processed food companies create policy in our country. And I think that's the main issue here, that those are the people who are buying ads. I don't watch the news on television. I don't own a television. But I would challenge any of the listeners or watchers of this podcast to watch the news and

look what is being advertised on the news right now. And you tell me what's being advertised on the news right now. And we should do some research, but I guarantee there's a pharmaceutical every second or third ad. I probably have pharmaceutical. It's probably junk food. It's probably Tostitos. It's probably like, Hey, you're sitting in your home. Here's some junk food for you. Like it would be really interesting to know what advertisers are buying time right now. Maybe they all are because people are just watching more TV, but junk food sales are up in the time in our history as humans when junk food sales are catastrophically affecting our health as humans. So for me, if we're talking a really big level, which I'm not sure really moves the needle, but the biggest level will come as no

surprise to anyone hearing this. It's just this idea that there is lobby. There is a lot of money driving Nestle and Cargill and agribusiness and conglomerate corporations that stand to make Tyson, the same to make a lot of money by processing food and by selling us cheaper, more convenient processed food. And that to me is the heart of the devil. That is the heart. That is the heart of the devil. That is the heart, that is the heart of the evil. That is where it's all coming from. It's just, and you see people do it all the time. And I don't think we're going to stop unless the messaging stops. And you know, I had a guy on my podcast that's coming out tomorrow, Trokel Asian. He's a great New York doc. He tells it how it is in medical school and residency. Whenever you bring

up the idea as a trainee, why don't we do lifestyle change with these people? Why don't we suggest a dietary change? And my dad will tell me the same thing. My dad's an internist, one of my greatest idols. He says, you know what? People won't do it. People won't do it. And that's the same narrative you'll hear from your attendings in medical school and the residents and residency. People won't do it. So don't talk about it. Don't even the residents and residency, people won't do it. So don't talk about it. Don't even bother doing dietary change because people won't do it. And you think, wow, don't we ever wonder why people won't do it? Because people certainly listen to the coronavirus stuff. When the news media got behind this, and Tro made this point on my podcast,

when the news media got behind this, when the mass hysteria was fear-based messaging around all this people will do it people will do it it's just that people listen to the news media if there was a news media campaign saying healthy young people are dying from diabetes healthy young people are dying from heart attacks better damn believe people would get scared that's a new chupacabra in town boy boy. Yeah. But that would cost agribusiness billions of dollars. That will never happen. But people will do it. I think what it tells us is that there is an ethernet connection figuratively into our psyche, into our consciousness, and it goes right into your TV and your computer. And whatever messages you see there, we are programmed to do as humans. And if we change

those messages, people will do it. But those messages will never change because of who's funding them. So there's no question people will do it. You can inspire fear in people with this. We can have the same messaging, you know, but if the New York Times are going to New York or going to hospitals in New York and saying, look at all these people losing feet to diabetes. They were making the same hit pieces about people on ventilators because they have

bad pneumonia related to a diabetic complication because they're immunocompromised because they're insulin resistant. You bet people would stand up, you know, and then tie it back to food. People would definitely stand up and the whole fabric of society would be ripped. You know, people would say, wait a minute, what? Like, but it's all the messaging. It's the matrix, man. man we're all plugged in it's that thing in the back of my head you know that neo pulls out like and we just don't realize that we're plugged into the matrix and that messaging can change people if they said eat whole foods you morons like you're dying because of this you know stop eating the junk food and they had the same fear-based messaging people would do it but it's slow it's just they're slow silent killers yeah you know they're not it's not like i mean some people some people wake up

one day with a migraine and say where's this coming from and investigate it some people do that some people just fucking go on heavier and heavier medication right so like what what is that i mean dr bruce lipton he talked about that he wrote the biology belief uh i actually had him on this podcast never released because i lost like five episodes in a in a cali trip um don't lose this one they re no we we're good that's why my boy giles is here that's why giles is in attendance um what bruce lipton was saying was as a part of our programming that happens from the third trimester until the age of seven uh one of the first ways we're programmed is who do we go to when we're sick we have outsourced our health from the fucking jump and it's not to say all doctors are bad we got a

fucking medical doctor in the house right on this podcast that's not the case at all dr craig conover's coming we recorded a show he'll be back on in a couple weeks here there are plenty of people who have that um degree who are also looking outside the box and not just taking everything you know fucking word for word from what they read in school right and want to investigate more but if we outsource that it's the same thing like i don't have to study my car because I'll take it to the auto mechanic and he'll fix it for me. Guess what? You don't get to swap out cars where you might believe in reincarnation or not, but you get this car only this go around,

right? So you should damn sure know how to tune it up. You have to know that. It's a fundamental part of living. This is the reason I went to medical school. Maybe you've heard me say this, maybe not, but I've said this exact same thing before. I went to medical school because I didn't want to take my car to the mechanic. And I knew that my body was like my car. I hated taking my car to the mechanic. That was why I went to medical school. That was why I did this because I didn't want to take my body to the mechanic and outsource my health to someone else I had to be in control of this health and right now We can't you know

We don't understand and all we can do is ask someone else for their opinion about all these health issues And I never wanted to do that for my friends and my family Especially for myself. It was ultimately a selfish thing. I hated that feeling out of control a change in locus control locus of control was so Unempowering so disempowering it was so frustrating for me that i that was why i did this and so yeah and we're at the same space now who do we listen to where do we get our health information from it's got to be somewhere people are forming their opinion from somewhere dude joe marcola was just on living 40 paul's check and he was paul's podcast living 40 and uh he was talking about how google and i had heard rob wolf talk

about this as well how he was like either shadow banned or he was getting way less traffic to his website a lot of other people in the paleo effects space mark sisson maybe this has happened to you maybe but uh one of the things that he was getting at was um mercola stated that there are only three major health sites that will come up now if you if you punch in a Google search. And he said, you can even punch in Joe Mercola's name and the exact title of his article and it will not pull up from his website.

And he's for 17 years running the longest alternative medicine health site in the world. It's crazy. Mercola has done a lot of great things and been widely vilified for stepping outside of the norm. And he, like everyone, you know what I love about Joe is that he is so brave to admit when he's wrong, you know, that we could all be so humble. You know, he's had missteps.

We all will. And people still crucify him for his missteps, but he's been the first to admit I was wrong and move past it. So, yeah, and it's crazy that Google is doing this. And this is kind of the creepy lines, the movie about this. Have you read this? Yeah, that's exactly what he's talking about. And Paul Cech was telling me about the same thing. And it is true. If you Google something, only a few health websites come up. So that is

the plug in the back of your head in the matrix. That is where you're getting your information. When I talk to people about the carnivore diet, a lot of them have just this almost visceral reaction. They just can't understand. But if they stick with me long enough, I love watching it happen in their mind. I say, why do you think that? 99% of them are engineers or housewives or they're baristas at Starbucks. They're not doing the formal research.

They read it somewhere. But we don't even know that we're forming our opinions based on something you read somewhere. You didn't read the primary literature. How many people form their dietary opinions based on the primary literature? How many people go to PubMed, you know, NCBI? How many people go to the NIH and Google articles to form your opinions about coronavirus, about dietary things? Almost no one. You know, when I'm on dates with women and I talk about the carnivore diet or whatever, and they're like, what do you

mean? And I'm thinking, did you, have you read the primary literature? And it just creates so much cognitive dissonance. And sometimes even talk about climate and they say, what do you mean cows aren't killing the environment? I'm thinking you are, you're bought in, you know, hook, line, and sinker. You're deep in the matrix and you, they haven't done, and this isn't, they're all lovely women, you know, really well. Hopefully some of them are in bikinis in Zilker Park right now. But, you know, like they're intelligent people that are well-meaning, but they, we get these ideas in our mind. And I don't think all of us realize, oh, wait a minute. I didn't actually do that. Like I took that from someone. I didn't read the primary literature. I didn't form my opinion. I chose

someone as gospel or as guru. Whatever health website you want to choose online, you chose that as guru or gospel and you believe what they believe. But there are people that disagree with those people, right? There are people that disagree with the narrative that cows are a huge contributor to climate change. There are people that disagree with the whole overall narrative of human-influenced climate change being a major issue, right? It's like, and who's read the primary literature? How many people have looked at the life cycle analysis of white oak pastures? How many people have looked at the carbon cycle? How many people are environmental

scientists? And again, the problem is we can't all be PhDs in everything. But if you really want to form your own opinion about something that you care about, you almost have to get a master's degree, you know? And I think that that's what you've done and other people have tried to do. And you just have to choose, who do I trust? What do I care about enough to have an opinion? And if you haven't done enough research to have a master's degree or equivalent, man, you're just taking what somebody else is feeding you. And I think people need to realize like that information doesn't necessarily mean that that's not the end all be all. That's something you got from the matrix. A good, a good rule of thumb is, does it work for you?

Right. Yeah. And, and that's, that's just it. So in the sea of diets, in the sea of, uh, you know, arguments from both sides of the coin, uh, and, and really just with respects to health, right. You try it on for size, give it an honest look. And then from there you can say, oh, okay, this worked well in some respects and I need to change a couple of things, but this is, this is great.

Yeah. And maybe that changes over time because your body changes, right? Something check talked about, like something that works for you in your twenties may, may change a little in your thirties. Or if you're a woman, it may change at different parts of the month totally totally fucking normal totally normal but if you can listen to your body and you have some equivalency and you've tried it on for size that's the only way to know right so it's like it's let's follow people to a certain degree only if it's working and there's ways to check on that right like i've been i've been since our hunting trip

i've been 90 plus percent carnivore okay again works for me right works for probably a lot of people to have high quality meats also organ meats every fucking day love it ancestral supplements been hooking me up they're great but also i'm eating organ meats every fucking day my wife and son and our daughter-to-be consuming organ meats every single day and in that i've i've not been training much i mean we have a garage gym we've got a lot and i'm riding bikes i'm active every day but i'm not crushing the weights right this is the first time i've been sub eight percent body fat since i was fighting wow and it's just literally just falling off all i'm doing is fucking eating till i'm full and having a good time and voila. Like, yes, there's some, there's

some substance behind that. So again, you try something, it works and then yeah. Okay. Let me learn more. Right. Like it's not, it's not rocket science. If it's not working and you give it an honest go, then Hey, okay. Try something else. Right. And I'm not dogmatic. If it's not working and you give it an honest go, then, hey, okay, try something else. Right. And I'm not dogmatic. If somebody does a carnivore diet or an animal based diet or a carnivore ish diet and doesn't see good results, I think do something else, you know, do dig more into the research. I'm not dogmatic about it. I don't think everybody needs to do it. I do think that a lot of times when people have bad results, they're eating too much protein, not enough fat. We talked about something on the first podcast that you and I did.

Or no organ meat. Right. Or no organ meat. Nose to tail is so critical. And I just get, every day that I learn about organ meats and how valuable they are in the human diet, I am just more and more amazed at just the beautiful synchronicity of the way that we used to hunt animals and the way that we used to consume the nose to tail and how that used to give us so many nutrients. And that's what's so cool about what the guys at ancestral are doing. Ancestral supplements are doing is they're getting people these nutrients in a much more easily accessible fashion in a pill. But also if you can eat the real organ meats, do that too. Like you're doing with your family and teach your kids that liver doesn't taste strange because they've had it before they were three years old.

Well, I still mask it because we get the liver worst from you. But he's still getting a little bit of the flavor, you know? He is. With it. And, you know, I bet that that would be cool, you know, just to get him a little bit of that flavor. And he's benefiting, you know, Bear's benefiting from that enormously. The only thing I would say in response to that, to add to your premise there, is that I think people need to be honest with themselves

about the narrative they're telling to themselves. Because I've met people, this is my judgment, but I've met people who say, I'm the healthiest I've ever been on a vegan diet. I feel good. And then I say, well, they tell me like, oh, but I also have reflux and I have cramps or I have IBS.

And I'm thinking like, really? That's the healthiest you've ever been? But to be fair, and this is, again, I think this has to do with, is this the first time you've ever made up. But to be fair, and this is, again, I think this has to do with, is this the first time you haven't had processed food? Right. Right? If going vegan, and by the way, Oreos are vegan.

But if going vegan is the first time that you're just eating plants and grains and nothing else. Exactly. No chips, nothing that sits on your shelf. If it's the first time you've ever done that in your life, you may see some positive results in the interim. What is it compared to? Yeah. And that's part of the listening, right? Okay. This is working as some form of fast. And then now if I'm still paying attention, my body might call me to eat meat again. It might call me to eat something that's nutrient dense. I think we've talked about this

either the last time you're on, but when you had the debate with Chris Masterjohn, he wanted to be very careful with how you worded carnivore and how you worded vegan, because some of the top vegans are saying you can get away with 2% anything you want or 10%. And he goes, let's just take the 2% model. If 2% of your caloric intake is whatever you want, and you choose that to be straight grass-fed beef liver and oysters you will cover 99.9 of the bases from a nutrient deficiency through the most bioavailable forms of vitamins and minerals within those substances yeah if you have the ultimate superfood animal foods on your quote vegan diet but yeah in the two percent right yeah yeah and

i love what you say about plant-based diets. I think that a plant-based diet can be a transition for people and be an improvement. And I am so concerned about it long-term because over and over, I've seen it kind of lead to nutrient deficiencies long-term and problems with glucose control, et cetera, et cetera. But it is an improvement.

And I am going to congratulate anyone and give them an electronic high five for doing any intentional choice in your diet, even if it's plant-based, but realize that there are a lot of people, myself included, probably you as well, though I don't want to put words in your mouth, who would say that you're going to miss animal-based nutrients if you're doing that. And it's really hard to get all those nutrients from the plant foods. Yeah. We've talked about that before, about the genetics of me, Tosh, even Aubrey, when I was reading his 23 23 and me we do not convert uh vitamin beta carotene

into vitamin a we can't get it from sweet potatoes we can't get it from carrots it has to come from animal based it has to come from egg yolk it has to come from liver it has to come from something that contains it in its actual form that's usable from us even and that's a super critical critical fat soluble nutrient for immunity we can tie this back into coronavirus super critical dha cannot take ala alpha linoleic acid from chia seeds or flax seeds and convert that into dha or epa hypercritical if i raised my son vegan he would be a fucking vegetable upstairs literally like he would not have proper brain development without dha and we've seen this i mean we've seen it over and over and i'll tie this back vegetable upstairs, literally. Like he would not have proper brain development without DHA.

And we've seen this. I mean, we've seen it over and over and I'll tie this back into coronavirus right now. If you look at the nutrients that we know are essential for proper immune function, the majority of them are most bioavailable, most present in absolute numbers in animal foods. And you gave this eloquent example of vitamin A. How much of the human population is vitamin A deficient? Probably a lot of people. And a lot. How much of the human population is vitamin A deficient? Probably a lot of people. And a lot of these cases that the news media is just adding fuel to the fire and saying, how many people are dying from coronavirus? I don't want to disrespect the dead, but I want to see their labs. And I want to know the details of their case. And I want to see,

let's study it. My suspicion is there's nutrient deficiency there. And there are so many nutrients that are critical for immunity. It's a dizzying list when you try and take a supplement. It's vitamin A, C, D, E, K2, probably every single nutrient you can make a case for. But the ones we know are most effective are those plus thiamine, riboflavin, B6, B12, folate, plus magnesium, manganese, zinc, copper, right? Like that's just, I just listed off 12 nutrients or 15 nutrients, you know? Where are you getting those nutrients from on your diet? That's the kind of thing we should be thinking of as humans.

What was so interesting for me about a carnivore diet is you eat a steak and liver and you just got every single one of those. And people don't know about the vitamin C. We probably talked about that on our first podcast, but we can leave it for people to refer back to that. But you can get every single one of those in animal foods. You'd to refer back to that. But you can get every single one of those in animal foods. You'd be hard pressed to get every,

you cannot get every single one of those from any single plant food. I'm not saying all plant foods are bad. I'm not saying people should not consume any plant foods. The message with the carnivore code and my messaging around the carnivore diet was, hey, look, it's way easier to get the nutrients in animal foods.

And then the data that you're hearing, the messaging you're hearing that animal foods are bad for you is epidemiology and it's quite misleading. So don't be misled into thinking these are bad for you. If you want a healthy immune system for coronavirus or whatever other storm we're going to weather as a buffalo herd.

And there will be many, many, many more. There will be so many more and it'll be different for you and me. You know, I cut my hand in a massive way on the foil board and had eight stitches. Here's a storm, right? There were so many microbes in that. If I'm diabetic, that is getting infected. I'm probably losing my finger. And I didn't take any antibiotics for this. You can question whether that was a wise thing or not,

but I didn't take any antibiotics for that or anything. And it's healing just fine on a carnivore diet without any supplemental vitamin C or anything like that, which to me is just this illustration. Look, you're going to get an injury. You're going to get exposed to bacteria, more viruses. I'm going to get the same. We're all going to have these trials and tribulations. And it's not about hiding from them. It's about going toward the storm, but being the strongest member of that tribe.

And I love that you brought that up at the beginning. I think that's how I wish the messaging would change around the coronavirus thing. If this coronavirus thing is going to take me out, then let it come. And I'm going to be at peace with that. If anything else, if a super virus comes and it's going to take me out, let it come. Because I would rather live in a happy way, in a full way than live in fear. That's not living. What we're doing now is not living. And I think humans at a deep level are realizing that. And that's why some people are starting to rebel. They're like, this isn't living.

Well, you know, what's good is if you think of like a slingshot, it gets pulled back first and then launched forward. Right. Right. We're getting pulled back right now. Yeah. And as we see these things being withdrawn, this came up for me in a DMT experience during Corona.

Did you see Corona? Did you talk to Coronavirus on DMT? I didn't. I know there's a lot of articles going around. Did you see the chupac talk to coronavirus on DMT? I didn't. I know there's a lot of articles going around. Did you see the chupacabra? Medium.com, what I learned from coronavirus on ayahuasca. That's actually a good article. But basically, as we withdraw from all these things that we love, from concerts, from gatherings,

from fucking things that bring us together, from real community. Sure, Zoom is blown up. Our hyper-connectivity is ever more more present we're even more connected i'm back on social media i threw in the fucking towel i want to talk to people it's the easiest way to talk to people all right cool for all the pros and cons it's still it's still the easiest way to talk to people i'm gonna i'm gonna go with that but what it was showing me is as we take these things away it's appreciated it's not just one you know as we talked about before the the constant doing of going from one thing to the next of getting in your car with fucking music on or the news radio and then you go to work

and you shovel some food down and then you work some more sitting on your ass then you drive home listening to the same shit and then you go you get you get to your house you're sitting down eating food and then uh you know my relationship isn't great i don't want to talk about the hard stuff let's just throw on a sitcom and laugh and that fucking sitcom bounces from one piece to another there's a what was that that uh youtube video that came out on the cia controlling hollywood another uh anywho it was basically talking about shortening shortening now again conspiracy theory or not there is science that backs this up our attention spans have been shortened whether the cia is behind it or not i don't know but our attention spans are shorter right one of the things that alleviates that is this type of form of media

podcasting does long form right and face-to-face conversations without a fucking tv on right without a distraction with your phone on fucking uh do not disturb mode or airplane mode right deep connection and that's something we don't necessarily have right now uh my my uh my wife tosh you know had to hang up with a family member because they were on the phone chatting and she wasn't paying attention she's paying attention to her new dog and like you can always tell like if you're face to face i can tell do i have your attention right you always know when you're heard when someone sees you fully right and i think this slingshot is pulling those things away from us like a little little timeout, right? Like Vitaly talks about

that. Like Mother Earth, Gaia said, all right, you're on timeout, go to your room and sort this shit out. And now when you come back, whatever that new normal is, we have all of these things have a greater awareness of appreciation. There's much more gratitude for the things we get to do. And there's a why behind it. And we don't want to lose those freedoms. We don't want to lose freedom of speech. We don't want to lose the ability to gather in mass. We don't want to lose our right to assemble. We want to have all those things and they're ever more important. I've never been to Burning Man, but I really want to go after coronavirus. I don't think it's going to happen this August. Maybe it will, but can you imagine? They preemptively shut it down.

They did. They're not going to do it this year. Yeah. Well, 2021, you and me will be at Burning Man. Can you imagine or a concert or somewhere where we're just like, oh, it's so good to be with humans. You know, it's so good to be with humans that I care about that are of the same mindset. Like that feels good. We need that. And I do hope that we can all appreciate that in a bigger way. I don't know when it's going to happen again, to tell you the truth, because there's some suggestion. I mean, I can't even imagine when we're going to get 60,000 people in a stadium again to watch a sporting game. And to me, that would feel a lot less intimate and a lot less connecting than something else. But for some people, that's a huge connection with their tribe of whatever fan they are, whatever team they want to root for. But to be amongst more

than 10 people or more than three or five people, what do we have? Four people in this room right now. To be amongst more than that in the future would feel really good. And I think hopefully we can all appreciate that in a way that's like, oh, I forgot about this. And we need that as humans. We need it. We can't be away from that forever. Yeah. You get it taken away for a little bit and then there is a greater understanding of why that's so important. What it means to be alive. What it means to live. What it means to be a human.

And to get to appreciate all that. And I just hope, I hope that we can all be a part of tying into that narrative, like, then be healthy. You know, like think about your health and think about food in terms of micronutrients, because that is the conversation here. That is the reason we get to do this. And that's not a passe conversation.

You know, it's not like, oh, we're, you know, that's like, that is the way you fight the chupacabra. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's not a, I should do this because, you know, I'm a little overweight or I should do this. It's like, no, you want it for your fucking self.

You want to live your life well. Want it for yourself. Yeah. So that you can enjoy this place because it is fucking awesome. Yeah. It is really awesome. And you don't have to cower in fear.

Yeah. Beautiful brother. Yeah, man. Was there. And you don't have to cower in fear. Yeah. Beautiful, brother. Yeah, man. Was there any stone unturned? I think we caught through most of it, man. Anything for you? No, brother. I think that's it.

I think that's it. Dylan, anything else you think we should have talked about? I think you guys covered all the important points. Micro-instruments are definitely some of the best points to cover because everybody forgets that all the vitamins, all the minerals serve such an important role in our bodies. Beyond that, peptides, proteins, there's so much that animal foods can offer us that are so overlooked.

And we could go more into Dylan off camera and off microphone was just reiterating the importance of animal foods and their nutrients. And we could get down into the science and the coronavirus epidemiology, but I don't think it really adds much to the conversation. I think we talked about that and the ideas around herd immunity and what it all means, but yeah, man, I love it. It's always good talking to you, brother. Oh yeah. I love you, brother. It's awesome to have you here.

So good to be here, man. It's so good to be here. I was here i was like i get to go to austin i'm so excited i'm gonna see kyle it's amazing awesome brother let's go to zilker park and see some girls in bikinis hell yeah well where could people where could people find you that's a given we'll get zilker park so i've got a book the carnivore code like i said it's everywhere now it's on audible it's on ebook and the website is carnivoremd.com the book website is thecarnivorecodebook.com. If you want to hear more of my controversial ideas, you can find it there. All my social media handles are at carnivoremd. Awesome, brother. Yeah, man.

Thank you guys for tuning into the show today with my man, Paul Saladino. I really want to know what you guys think about all this. So hit me up on Instagram at livingwiththekingsburys. And let us know what you think in the comment section of any post around what's going on. How's quarantine been for you? What have you learned? What have you gleaned? What do you believe about all this? And just give us a broader scope, a broader lens to look through.

Really appreciate you guys tuning in. And we'll see you in a week.