Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #162 Jamie Wheal

Episode Date: July 2, 2020

Jamie Wheal is the co-author of Stealing Fire. He join's the podcast for the first of many to come. We discuss the content of his next book on- altered states, flow, ascension, tantra, and sex magick. This is by far the deepest dive into sex and altered states within sex I've ever had.    Help support the podcast by visiting our sponsors: Check out www.primalfusionhealth.com/e3/kyle for a free gift and more information on Aleks and Sara's coaching. Aleks and Sara are Chek professionals who have taken a deep dive into all matter of life and can break you through whatever sticking point you may be experiencing! Check out Dry Farm Wines and get a bottle for a penny | DryFarmWines.com/Kyle Dry Farm is 100% organic and biodynamic grown wines from all over the world with about 1g of carbohydrate per bottle! Keto wine with none of the garbage- it is truly the healthiest wine on Earth and the only wine I drink.  Visit paleovalley.com and enter code word KYLE at check out for 15% off you ENTIRE ORDER. These guys made the best 100% grass fed beef sticks, ACV capsules, and much more! Ancestral Supplements - Grass-Fed intestines  https://ancestralsupplements.com/kyle Use codeword KING10  for 10% off / Only Valid through Shopify Option. For the best supplements helping you eat nose-to-tail and getting the most nutrient dense and bioavailable nutrients in your diet.  OneFarm Formally (Waayb CBD) www.onefarm.com/kyle (Get 15% off everything using code word KYLE at checkout). Check out the BRAND NEW night serums and facial creams and (as always) the best full spectrum CBD products.    Get $100 off the Chek Institute’s Holistic Lifestyle Coach Level 1 online course by using KKP100 at checkout |  https://chekinstitute.com/hlc1online/ HLC changed my life and offered a deep dive into Paul Chek's amazing wealth of knowledge.    Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Instagram | https://bit.ly/3asW9Vm   Subscribe to the Kyle Kingsbury Podcast Itunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2Ib3HCg Google Play Music | https://bit.ly/2HPdhKY    

Hello, hello, everybody. Today we have my man, my friend, a guy who I've learned a lot from over the years, Jamie Wheel. Jamie Wheel was the co-author of the book Stealing Fire, which if you haven't read is an absolute game changer, really centered around altered states of consciousness stemming back from the Eleusinian mysteries in ancient Greece where they would drink Kikion, a brew known to contain some organic forms similar to that of LSD or acid.

Every one of the greats from ancient Greece, from Plato to Aristotle, Socrates, along with some of the ancient Egyptians would all gather once a year to consume this beverage in the darkness and um shit i'm forgetting the temple right now but they bridge that gap all the way to um modern combat and warfare with the navy seals and special ops and how they work to attain cohesiveness and flow. So everything from the altered states of psychedelics to the altered states of timelessness in action, featuring friends and people that have been on the show, you know, guys like Laird Hamilton and different extreme sports athletes

who find that the more pressure they have on themselves, the more they must be dialed in. It was an incredible book. We don't even dive into that in this episode. I think we talk about it very briefly. This episode is a long one. And the reason for that is I wanted to extract as much as possible from Jamie. We did this a couple months back in my house, and we took a deep dive into his next book, which I know we mentioned the dates coming up. It is a ways out. But the beautiful thing about Jamie is that he understands podcasts. And it's not every time I have a guest on who's an author who wants to give away a lot of the main takeaways from his book. A lot of people think the more they talk about it, the less you'll actually want to buy the book.

And that's completely absurd. The more you give, the more people want. And certainly in a two-hour conversation, Jamie's just scratching the tip of the iceberg here with what he's getting into. This conversation is centered really around relationships and sex and sex in particular for higher states of consciousness, which I've read about, to be perfectly honest, have never, I've experienced it at times in particular. If my wife and I, at the end of a mushroom ceremony, we're able to connect sexually. That was blast off, you know off. It has to be in

this right, it can't be at peak experience. It has to be in the tail end of the experience, but a feeling of complete oneness and unity. And that is accessible with or without substance. But what's great is Jamie gives many different entry points based on what you're comfortable with. And you may find, as a man or a woman, you're more comfortable with experimentation than your partner is. And that's okay, too, because there's ways to bridge that gap. And there's something for everyone. I forget the terminology that he used cause we did do this a couple of months ago, but he gives like a, uh, a very low hanging fruit entry point

all the way to the high end, you know, the equivalent of a micro dose of, of mushrooms all the way to the 30 grams of penis envy experience. I mean, he has, and obviously that's, uh, just using a loose analogy. He's not recommending anybody has that kind of amount of mushrooms before having sex. But he gives a very detailed approach to how to achieve these altered states of consciousness and really bridges a gap between in the East with the tantric practices and in the West with sex magic. And I was blown away.

I mean, absolutely blown away. I know I've said that before, but this is one that I've been holding on to. Because in many ways, it's not necessarily specific to the times. There's a lot going on in the world. And there's a lot going on in my world. I mean, any single day now, we will be giving birth to our daughter. And I say we, because I'm a part of the experience. But my wife will be giving birth to little wolf here today, tomorrow, the next day. By the time you listen to this, she may already be

here. So there's a lot going on in my world and externally, there's a lot going on in the world. And for each one of us as individuals in times like this, yes, there's a lot going on internally as well as externally. So it was kind of odd for me in terms of selecting when this one comes out simply because there's at times I want to be pertinent to the current conversations going on. And other times, you know, I released an episode that was recorded months before anything and it's like, well, this has nothing to do with that. But then again, I think it's nice to take a break from the consistency of whatever the mainstream media is. And not that I'm mainstream media, but just a break from the consistency of the current conversations.

And so this is a conversation that is timeless. And I don't mean ours in a specific, you may call it that. That would be lovely. But the conversation around heightened states of awareness, and in particular, the divine union, in particular with our partners for sacred states of consciousness and the ability to level up. And a lot of that may seem airy fairy or woo talk to people who aren't familiar with the deeper waters of psychedelics. But once again, you know, Jamie bridges the gap. So it's not like you have to jump in the deep end right away. He gives many avenues for which you can start to experience and work towards a much better sex life at the very least. And at the very

most, a complete merging of oneness with your partner and achieving a greater degree of healing, a greater degree of awareness, a greater degree, there we go, a greater degree of consciousness. I'm not going to say much more on that episode other than thank you guys so much for tuning in and please check out our sponsors. They definitely make this show possible and there's a lot of businesses that are struggling right now. Your business may be struggling as well due to the current climate of the world. But at the same time,

podcast sponsorships are one of the ways that these companies stay alive. So please support these guys. This episode is brought to you by Grass-Fed Intestines with Tripe by Ancestral Supplements. Ancestral Supplements makes New Zealand source nose-to-tail organ meats, bone marrow, and intestines in simple, convenient gelatin capsules. According to the great John Fire, lame deer. And I know I've, I've, I've said this pretty much every week, but his book, lame deer seeker of visions is one of my favorite books on native American wisdom. Covering really everything from what life was like prior to mass genocide, prior to a complete uprooting of culture. And, you know, I think there's a lot of that in the collective consciousness right now among many different groups of people without question. But this is a beautiful tale of what his life was prior to you know white people influence and then

of course during it and he has a beautiful way with words also pretty damn funny he doesn't pull punches and you know I mean look no further than this quote he said that let's see here in the old days we used to eat the guts of the buffalo making a contest of it two fellows getting a hold of a long piece of intestines from opposite ends started chewing towards the middle seeing who can get there first that's eating those buffalo guts full of half fermented half digested grass and herbs you didn't need any pills and vitamins when you swallowed those i mean this guy does not pull punch in his book i highly recommend it as far as the supplement goes intestines stomach and tripe and other gelatinous parts

provided concentrated amounts of connective tissue, undenatured collagen, and probiotics, as well as other gut-specific proteins that are now absent from the modern diet. This is something my wife and I take every day now. She's been taking it in pregnancy. I find it to be absolutely essential. And having a buffalo harvest over at Rome Ranch, you know, we could see just how much of this wonderful native grass is within their gut lining.

And the buffalo is a sacred and incredible animal. So lots here, you know, this is, of course, from 100% grass-fed, grass-finished cattle. They have a ton of good stuff over at ancestralsupplements.com slash Kyle. You'll get 10% off everything you order there. So check those guys out. We are also brought to you today

by my good friends, Alex and Sarah, who have been on the podcast before. Check out that episode. These guys have a wealth of knowledge. They're Czech-level practitioners, high-level practitioners from the Czech Institute, and they're offering all sorts of stuff right now in their coaching. But the bottom line is they're going to help you achieve gradual inner awakening that fortifies a higher standard of conscious awareness in all aspects of your life.

That's a big piece to chew on. In your coaching with them, you will create a conscious awareness around your thoughts That's a big piece to chew on. think and plan ahead so you can be proactive and self-sufficient during these times. We will provide an abundance of resources to assist you with accessing healthy food, gardening, sustainability practices, EMF protection, the latest information on immunizations, and anything that interrupts our liberties to make choices in these areas. You will learn techniques for relaxation and meditation, and how to use creative visualization as a tool to achieve your goals and balance decisions. Your health and performance will become aligned with harmonious relationships and occupational fulfillment because your authentic expression flows naturally through all of your bodies, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. I'm linking to what they're offering in the show notes. It's primalfusionhealth.com slash E3 slash Kyle. And

you're going to get some free stuff there. Three free videos to check out and a fat discount on their private coaching should you feel so inclined. So definitely check out Alex and Sarah at primalfusionhealth.com slash E3 slash Kyle, which I'll link to in the show notes. We're also brought to you by my dudes at One Farm. One Farm is making the very, very best in CBD products. They start with a 100% USDA certified single origin farm out in Colorado where they take the best hemp organically grown and they use 100% CO2 extraction to bring you some of the best full spectrum CBD products on the planet. The tincture, as I mentioned before, is something that I,

Bear and Tosh use consistently every single day. It's full spectrum. It tastes phenomenal. They don't add any nasty sweeteners or anything like that. It is simply cinnamon flavor or lemon flavor, 100% natural, 100% organic with MCT oil as the base. It's ketogenic. It's phenomenal. And they have night serums and facial creams with, which my wife loves. So lots of good stuff there over at onefarm.com slash Kyle, and you get 15% off everything in the store. So make sure you check out their great products. We're also brought to you by Paleo Valley. These are the guys who make the amazing beef sticks I was talking a bit about. They have an apple cider vinegar complex, which as many of you know, apple cider vinegar is incredible. And

there's a ton of clinically proven benefits here. But basically by taking these encapsulated, you get all of the healing properties of apple cider vinegar into a daily diet without the fuss or the burn. And ACV can be a little hard to choke down. So I'm a huge fan of these. It's been shown to support with digestion, breaking down of proteins or amino acids for better absorption, improving the blood sugar response and supporting with satiety and craving. So this is a big one for me. I've talked about my genetics before. My wife mirrors that. Aubrey Marcus mirrors that. No coincidence. But basically, we have diabetes in our family. We have the genetics for type 2 diabetes. We have the genetics for obesity. Now, you'll never see that in us because of our food choices. But if I want to throw caution to the wind and eat a heavy carb

meal, like say it's a sushi night or something like that, apple cider vinegar prior to that meal has been shown to curb the blood sugar response. It's also been shown to improve high blood sugar, reduce heart disease risk. And what else we got here? The component, let me see if I get this right. Chlorogenic acid component also seems to prevent LDL from oxidizing, which is a key factor in developing of heart disease. Lots of good stuff here. So bottom line is if you don't like choking down apple cider vinegar in its raw form, you can get it encapsulated from these guys over at paleovalley.com slash Kyle, and you're going to

get a big discount. So check these guys out. Also, I'm linking to everything in the show notes. So once again, you don't have to take notes here. Just look to click in the show notes and you will get all of the discounts from ancestral supplements to my boys at one farm to Alex and Sarah, as well as paleo Valley. And without further ado, my man, the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Jamie Wheel is in the house. So I'd started this book, Center of the Cyclone, a while ago when I was getting into microdosing acid in the float tank. And somebody was like, have you heard of John Lilly? And I was like, isn't that the guy that invented float tanks? And they're like, yeah, well, he was a pretty good, I mean, a fairly explorative psychonaut himself. And so somebody recommended that book,

one of the owners of a float tank that I was using out in the Bay Area. And I go through it, and it was like, Oh, this is incredible. He was a medical doctor and he had prescription, um, LSD from Sandos labs. He was homies with Hoffman. So he'd shoot intravenously 300 micrograms of LSD and then float in his first custom made float tank for 12 hours. And he has some of the craziest trip reports, like, you know, DMT level trip reports, but for 12 hours. And he gets through all those. And what was cool is I have this bookmark in here. It's a dollar bill. And I just felt called the other night to grab the book. I was like, huh, I wonder why I stopped reading this.

And I get to a point and it's on the mapping of heaven and hell. And I recall why I stopped reading it. Cause I was like, I'm just interested in the trip reports. I've never been to hell. Who cares about that? But after 30 grams of penis envy and the infinite loop of hell, I was like, this is actually very pertinent information. And it's really to map how we can get to those states of heaven or hell in everyday waking consciousness or in the psychedelic realm. And so I find it very curious and fascinating

to finish this book now. So it's at the top of my list. And then I have, of course, some other ones I'm working on as well. Beautiful. Yeah, brother. It's a never-ending story. It's funny how the soul guides you

to different books at different times and pieces of it, you know, you get through halfway and you're like, ah, I think done and then three years later you're like oh no i need to read this now yeah one thing i remember stumbling across in lilies was just and this was late 50s i mean so on point but he's just like hey under lsd there is a heightened kinesthetic awareness. And so the ability to stretch, to move, to repattern, you know, kinesthetic programming. Yeah. It was, because, you know, what is this book? One of them is like metaprogramming in the human biocomputer.

Yes, yes. And just, I just, you know, randomly cracked open the page and it was right there. This exact descriptor. Because for me, any kind of high state experiences are wildly embodied and kinesthetic you know like the very first thing I feel like doing is working out the kinks and stretching and opening you know and and there's very little just passive cogitating to be done you know I'd rather roll I'd rather do everything yeah in an embodied sense and it feels like sort of like you're getting're getting your spidey senses on.

I've been getting that way with psilocybin, not at the 30-gram dose that was just out of body the whole time, but with both the 10-gram and 8-gram experiences that I've had recently with penis envy. It's almost like a purge. If you're an Aya, and you want to listen to this song, and this song and i was like no you really need to fucking get up and puke or you really need to go to the bathroom this the music will be here and you just have to go uh i just have to get up and move it's like it's like you don't have a choice you know sock puppet style like you're gonna get

up and move in a way that opens you up because this is locked and this is blocked and whatever it is energetically or not or otherwise it is in the body it's there for sure you feel the kinks and you can unlock those things rather rapidly through breath and movement and that just opens the whole channel yeah yeah brother i've always had that definitely had that experience well i've been wanting to have this podcast with you for some time. I've been a fan of you for many years. And Stealing Fire was such a great book because I think it bridged the gap of awareness around altered states through flow and through many of the ways we make it there. And including a beautiful description

of the Illusinian mysteries and as far back as we can date some of these practices that have gotten us to tap into a deeper level of knowing. And of course, we have a wide range of very cool topics to discuss today. Something that you brought up to me on our hike through the Greenbelt was on hierogamy. So I want to dive deeply into that. I know you've got a lot to say on it. Yeah. And I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions to go along with it. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, you know, just to set it back in frame, I mean, obviously I would imagine that, you know, listeners of your podcast and kind of following yours and Tasha's life experience, etc., and Aubrey's and kind of your extended community,

have all been exploring varying forms of liberated and liberating sexuality and relational formats. And how does that fit in the constellation of basically ecstasis and catharsis, peak experiences and deep healing. And how do these all live together and gear into each other in a way that leads to, you know, potentially communitas, like whether that's in a dyad, like a pair, and deep relationship communion and expanding out into tribe and into bigger connections. So in that space, it seems like if you kind of continue the inquiry that I teed up in Stealing Fire, which is what is the role of peak states in those other two things, in the healing and integrating and in the connecting and

collaborating, and you do it and you're not squeamish. You just kind of do it in an open hearted way. You go where the research and the evidence suggests, etc. You basically end up with embodiment, potentially music, all of these things together. in general, the only folks or communities of practice around that sort of stuff have often had kinks. There have been reasons why. So, I mean, if you put all those things together, you're like, well, let's just do it all. You're like, well, who does all that? Colts. Yeah, cults, bachelor parties in Vegas, the Castro district, chemsex gay scene in Berlin and San, so peaks and healing, it can be confusing as far as like, hey, what is a path with heart? What is a road that leads us to the light of mythologically, you could sort of say the grail castle right where the where the errant

knight seeking right seeking the loving cup goes versus the hotel california you know which becomes the seeking of sensation and pleasure in the hell realms you know and i think we even see that we see that i'm not even especially you see that uh in the burning man community right you can see that in the beginning of the night in the beddingman community right you can see that in the beginning of the night in the early evenings everybody is fresh everybody is riding whatever you know metabolic chemicals they're on and there can be profound beauty it's often super sexy it's really powerful you're like oh shit this is like star tribe badass motherfuckers like everybody's throwing down you wait until 4 a.m 5 a.m people are on

the jaggedy back end you know of a re-up at 2 a.m you know that you see the you know the fucking new york form you know models like just blank you know blankly shaking their asses on top of the robot hot bus and you're like oh this isn't that anymore. Where did all the angels go? You know, and it starts feeling a little hollow and a little empty. So, I think that's a real question, which is, you know, what does a contemporary left-hand path look like? You know, because like the right-hand paths is the orthodox path. Orthodox just literally means straight thinking, like orthodontist just means straight teeth right so orthodox is like the you know the way is straight but the path is narrow don't fuck it up you know don't do these things don't do those things and the left-hand path is is basically you know and it harm none do what thou wilt it's all good right work with all the

experiences all the materials and metabolize them into accelerated growth. But the reality is that if you track, and we were just talking about John Lilly, right? You can add in Ken Kesey, you can add in Aleister Crowley, you can add in a whole long line of folks that went down the left-hand path and put it in the ditch. Because precisely, like, if you can hack the arousal and reward networks and systems in the human body and brain, it's very hard to put the brakes on them. And if you set aside the right-hand path rules, and you realize, in fact, in fact, I'm doing what I will, then there is this space where you've taken away all the social constructs and all the guidelines and you realize that they are all essentially illusory or just rickety constructs and and then the temptation to be bent by grabbing the one ring of power is there so you end up with like heath ledger's the joker like i'm not fucking doing anything man

i'm just a dog chasing cars right you end up with brando in apocalypse now like cuts going up the river you end up with the amoral Sith Lord, pleasure sensation seeker. And so, how do we, you know, now that all of these tools and technologies are available to us, how do we incorporate them without overclocking our processors, right? And how do we maintain caring, compassionate, ethical relationship to it all when there's a very slim track record of people who have pulled this off and haven't succumbed to ego inflation,

sensation-seeking indulgence, or some form of corruption or perversion. So that's really kind of been our inquiry. Yeah, it's an important inquiry inquiry and it's certainly an important inquiry uh for those that that have you know recognized truth in a book like sex at dawn or in a book like untrue by wednesday martin where you start to see maybe we've kind of been coaxed into a certain model of living. And I think, look, sex aside, you watch a movie like The Matrix, and if you get it, you will see it in everything. You'll see it in the way we eat food.

You'll see it in what we're told to buy. You'll see it in television programming. You'll see it in all the ways that we're taught how to live in the modern world. And I think there's a big pull to ancestral living. And I think a lot of that makes sense to us. You know, it certainly did for my wife and I when we read Sex at Dawn on how our sexuality could have been in a different way.

And that doesn't, it's not to say that this was blanketly across the board egalitarian and that everyone fucked everyone and it was a fucking giant peace pie. It wasn't, right? But there were different models. And I think intention is such a big piece, but even with the right intentions, you can get off track.

So I would love to dive deeper into that model and some of the things that you brought up on the hike, which were really important in terms of, you can only choose three out of the four that we're talking about, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in fact, I was just thinking about this yesterday. So, to your point about once you've seen The Matrix, right, you see it everywhere. And I was thinking, holy shit, like what an amazing drumbeat of cultural narratives constantly reinforced of, if you play in this space, it may be fun for a while, folks, but

there's always hell to pay. And the classic trope is like all the slasher Halloween flicks and all the horror movies, where it's always the hot blonde chick who has sex and then dies. There's always that one. And then you think of like Johnny De depp's blow that movie and boogie nights and even the beach with leo dicaprio right all three of those and there's and there's a thousand others right there's always this paradisical early phase where it all looks absolutely fucking amazing and then boom hell to pay so how many times does that story get reinforced in all of our cultural scripts there's a crypto puritanical narrative that we are so familiar with that when it comes we see there's no shortcuts see there's

no free lunches see it's icarus right again and again and again so i mean imagine if our stories went the other way it was you know it's it's powerful so to your point about sex at dawn, I've been thinking about sex at dawn and untrue and what women want. There's kind of a constellation of books that have come out in the last five years or so that are basically very similar in thesis. traditional or at least 19th, 20th century conventional Judeo-Christian monogamy is a construct and that in the past, especially in the ancient past, there was a much, you know, hidden reality of open relating and basically lustful women. I mean, basically it's giving permission back for women for agency choice, appetite, right? All of those kinds of things. And it's obviously, you know, no surprise, gone gangbusters. People love reading those books. Now, most evolutionary biologists, friends of ours, don't think that much of the science. You know, there's definitely a lot of cutting the foot to fit the shoe, you know, and it's a just-so story. It's kind of like how the leopard got its spots you know or why the giraffe has a long neck like these these uh stories with you know debatable

academic footing but credible enough to be persuasive to mainstream audiences and but what's what i find really interesting rather than like dismissing them at the academic level what i think is more interesting is like why now why do they hit why do they gain such traction and why do general readers feel such permission you know to to live into a new story and this was true even like carlos castaneda right i mean the teachings of don juan turns out to be a made-up story but castaneda was sourcing from someplace right he i mean while he may have been making up large chunks of his phd dissertation at, right? And all of those kind of things, it doesn't mean that it was And the same even with Sapiens, right? I mean, Sapiens, that was my neck of the woods in grad school as well. So, like,

when I read Sapiens, particularly, I think it's like chapter four, but he's basically, when he goes from painting the picture of like Neolithic cavemen, and then he kind of like speeds up the film and gets you to the beginning of the agrarian revolution 10 000 years ago and he says in that chapter like he makes all kinds of like big major assertions about the unfolding of human culture and civilization and since i was familiar with the historiography in the field i'm like holy shit man a lot a lot must have happened in the last 10 years like i don't like i don't remember this being like definitive truth and so i flipped to the back of the book. And for that entire chapter where he basically compresses, you know, 50,000 to 100,000 years of human culture, there's not a single goddamn footnote.

I'm like, holy shit, Yuval, this is like, this is an extended op-ed. And no one caught it. No one called him out on it because we were all bouncing along on the meta narrative on the big story he was telling and he is he's upending the story of neoliberal consumer promise right he's saying hey the rat race began a long fucking time ago right with the advent of agriculture and the story we've been told that it's all been getting better, blah, blah, blah, Steven Pinker, all that kind of stuff, is actually not true. And we're better off doing something old school and primitive

or going back to our roots or some other possibility. So, I think that it's fascinating when stories today give ourselves permission to live into new, different narratives, right? Versus their actual kind of quote unquote objective truth. And so, with all that, um, and, and, you know, by the way, I mean, I think that like Sex at Dawn and, and What Women Want and Untrue, they are of a genre that also includes things like, um, Robert Iron John, women who run with the wolves, chalice and the blade. There was kind of a 90s expression of that stuff as well, which was, hey, you know, there were the burning times in Europe. The goddess religions were repressed, you know, there's all this kind of stuff. like what we're working with, you know, and certainly what Sex at Dawn starts to speak to a bit, is that evolution is fundamentally amoral and doesn't actually give a shit about our own preferences at all. And so, so much of human suffering is based on the rub between our hard-coded biological impulses

and then our preferences and our values and our feelings and our relationships and our norms. So, when we think about that, you know, you think about, our values and our feelings and our relationships and our norms. So when, when we think about that, you know, you think about, I mean, literally like, I don't know how much,

if you, if you ran a calculation, I'm guessing it's probably two thirds plus of human suffering is boils down to sexuality and conflicts around sexuality and all those kinds of things. If you think about the amount of sexual abuse and trauma, I mean, it was, it's 8%, 8% of Asians share Genghis Khan's DNA.

Yeah, it's a fucking huge number. Yeah, that's just rape and pillage. You know, you're like, holy shit, that's incredible. And the fact that things like 50% of sexual violence against women happens to girls before the age of 16. You know, that is gutting. And then you think about, you think, oh, and prefrontal cortexes don't turn on until the age of 24, 25. Yeah, the brain doesn't finish till 28, right?

I mean, we were just watching a Netflix special with a woman comic, a young woman comic, but she was like, yeah, you know God's a man because he made boobs 10 years ahead of finishing brains. Which was a punchline, but also speaks to the profound, like that a post-pubescent girl is sexually available. And for all of human history, has been married, has been raped, has been all of those things. And yet, emotional maturity and adult consent is lagging. You're just like, that 10 years,

how much trauma and suffering is because of that? Do you think, and this may be a slightly off topic, but I think it's pertinent for the discussion of evolution do you think that with the way a lot of uh indigenous cultures used to raise children like the hobies would not have the parents raise the child it was always aunties and uncles a lot of cultures it would be the grandparents so you'd have at least one level of differentiation because it was too close. The parents were too close to have that hands-on approach. And a lot of cultures, the parents would still be able to work and do whatever the hunting and gathering or whatever they were doing

for that first half of the day when everyone worked and the kids would all be banded together with the elders. Do you think that kids could have children at a younger age for the sake that not all children were going to live so they could start that longer by design sexually but with the growth of the human brain and where it's come to through evolution that that is why it lags but at least that we had set that up in a way, society-wise, where it could work better than a nuclear family. Yeah, I mean, I think specifically the Hopi, right? I mean, they had a very open policy as far as adult, I mean, adolescent sexuality and exploration.

So there was same-sex exploration, there was early promiscuity and experimentation, there were all these things pre-marriage, and it was all integrated and understood. So by the time there was early promiscuity and experimentation there were all these things pre-marriage and and it was all integrated and understood so by the time there was a pairing it was understood you'd effectively kind of got your yas out right um and that divorce you know or separation was as easy as you know this is true for most of the plains tribes as well but it's just you know some simple ritual like just putting the dude's moccasins outside the door like you know like i'd like a change up and even a norm like um women averting their gaze and never making eye contact with their

mother-in-laws which you know it makes fucking perfect sense if you're stuck in a teepee all winter like you're like damn that is some genius anthropology right there so the sense of did it work within a cultural context that includes just basic realities, including infant mortality, including all of these things, including extended kin networks and care? Yeah, I'm sure it did. But just to kind of continue the thread of the notion of how amoral evolution is, right? Think about honeymoon phase. You're high as a coon on you know first of all estrogen testosterone is you know the the mating impulse then you get sort of dopamine you know

and then the drive for novelty and honeymoon highs all that stuff tends to wear off in two to three years which is precisely long enough to have sex impregnate gestate and nurse an infant and then boom often switches off like a light and people end up in the doldrums. You know, you end up with women. In fact, I just read this paper last week, which was that when women are ovulating, or actually no, it's when women have, it's the week immediately preceding ovulation, they actually experience a dip, they experience a change in estrogen, and they become more irritated with their stable mate. They don't like how he looks, they don't like how he smells, they don't like how he talks, and the man notices that. So, he has a drop in testosterone, and the

theory was is that this actually increases her likelihood of stepping out on her guy in peak fertility to seek a more genetically superior mate. Wow. Yeah, you're like, oh, fuck. That's so brutal. And the same things happens with birth control pills. So, birth control pills jack estrogen, and they will leave a woman seeking the domestic caregiver. So, quite the classic pattern is a woman will be on the pill for a long-term relationship. She will love and find this man. He's a good mate. He's going to be a good husband, a good father. They get married. She goes off the pill. They start trying to have a baby. And then suddenly she's like, like, what? What are you, weak-chinned looking fucking

motherfuckers? I'm going to go bang a Harley Davidson guy. And so the idea, and you're like, oh, that is such dirty pool. And you fast forward it, you know, men in their 40s experience a drop in testosterone. And many, many of them blow up perfectly good homes, lives, marriages, work, because they get out and bang the secretary or chase some hot young thing because and then you know biologically what is the surest fire way to boost t-count in a guy it is new sex with a younger mate that can cost millions of dollars and create all kinds of conflict and turmoil and then you know six months later or two months later they two are like wait a second you know i'm n Nintendo and she's Xbox.

We don't even have anything to talk about. She doesn't even know the same sitcom. She was watching fucking Disney Channel when I was a grown ass man. Like I got nothing in common with this woman now that the scales have fallen from my eyes. But what does he say? I just feel so alive around her. Everything seems fresh and new.

And she's like, yeah, dude, you just got a boost. You could have gone to your doctor and got a fucking T patch and been been fine that would have been way cheaper you know so so you look at all this stuff and you're like oh my god there is so much untold suffering so much grief so much trauma by us having our strings pulled by evolutionary drivers and impulses but if we can identify all that and you also think just sheer like awe that somehow we have figured out a way to get busy and make more of us more of us for millions of years with no instruction manual you know like there was that old movie was a blue lagoon with brook shields like it was it was her first movie and it was like i haven't seen that since i was a kid yeah exactly but it was kind of racy when you're

a kid oh yeah there's like boobies and stuff but but you know she she you know she and this other boy are stranded on a desert island and then they kind of come of age and they figure out how to get busy you know and you think about it you're like oh you know you're an adolescent young boy and suddenly your nuts drop and they start making testosterone and then your little pee pee stands up right and and it's super super sensitive all kinds of crazy nerve endings but like everything it runs into whether it's the inside of your jeans or your hand it's like it's rough you know but if you play with it like interesting things happen but everything's kind of rough and doesn't feel that good and then suddenly somehow you find a girl

right and you're like wait wait a second, there's just like my bits match your bits, right? And there's this little super warm, super slick slot that you have that fits my thingy, right? And then funnily enough, like the viscosity of a woman's arousal is higher viscosity than our synovial fluid and our knee joints it's the slickest thing that humans make and you're like warm wet and slippery let me just try pogging it there that feels amazing wait a second let me back it out again wait let me pocket let me back it out and then suddenly like lights camera action amazing things happen if you if you play well for both of you and then like bam nine months later

you're like jokes on you you have another little human now now what the fuck connects those two activities you know like that is a bait and switch of epic proportions and we are led down that garden path willy-nilly so you realize that and you're like, okay, that is some amazingly strong drivers, amazingly strong neurochemical, biological impulse. And it leads to, I mean, even in the developed world today, like the US, Western Europe, Japan, in the developed world, it's a 50-50 coin toss on whether a pregnancy is wanted or not. Half of the humans in the developed world are unwanted. Accidents of that evolutionary bait and switch. And you're like, holy shit, what would the world look like if all of us were wanted?

If all of us had a home to be welcomed into that was stable, prepared, and ready to raise another person? So we're like, holy shit, man. So that right there is the human condition. you can pretty much boil it down to this and and you know along with like consciousness and realizing we're going to die you know that's probably the other half of the existential mind fuck and mortality is pretty big it's a dizzy right and our buddy jason silva you know like is forever you know forever quoting ernst bernest Becker on that one. So the question is, is rather than succumb to that, right, can we take all of that encoding and all of that biological impulses and all those drivers and actually just jump the tracks? And instead of saying this is solely for procreation, habitual instinctive, right, procreation, can we jump the tracks and put it towards transformation? And if we can use all of those drivers in a kind of judo move, then you're into the realm of what

is ultimately in the East is typically called Tantra and what in the West is usually referred to as sex magic. So, can you take all of that momentum and and roll it you know judo or keto style into the other project and that's where things get super interesting yeah and i'm i'm fascinated with it i have uh one of osho's books somewhere over there on tantra and i haven't i haven't really taken a dive into it yet i know it gets thrown around a lot in burning man circles and plant medicine circles and uh depending on who you talk to it kind of said you know it can sound like the holy grail it can sound like this uh this thing that you know that somebody who like like one of the first time i did ayahuasca i wanted to fucking beat my chest and shout it on a mountaintop but the world needs this yeah you know like that kind of thought process unpack what tantra is uh from your

understanding and and really the reason i guess the reason we would want to explore that yeah i mean um i mean i think that there's you know there's obviously lots of different definitions and when people typically think of tantra they think they think of sexy time. They think of the Kama Sutra and all that kind of stuff, right? Although, interestingly, like the entire Kama Sutra, I think there's only like 11 or 12 pages devoted to sexuality. And the rest is all about flower arranging and music and art and, you know, massage and like just how to live a good balanced life in connection um but basically a super stripped down description of tantra is basically that left-hand path which is working with all that arises as fuel or raw material for transformation of which sexuality is a subset right and cultivating sexual energy particularly orgasm is a powerful. It's almost like the flame underneath, you know, of the crucible, right? So if you can cultivate that life force and use it to turn up the heat in a controlled manner to burn away everything that isn't pure in your self-system,

then that can be a really potent means of self-discovery and relational bonding. And in fact, you know, to go back to John Lilly, right? In 1953, he does that research with the rhesus monkeys and maps that the human, in fact, general primate ecstatic arousal network. So like what in our nervous systems gives rise to peak states? MAPS, one-to-one with the sexual arousal network, which makes good sense because evolution is efficient as well. It may be amoral, but it's efficient. It doesn't waste time, space, or energy or genes. And, you know, then you realize that when I was actually on a panel with Rick Doblin from MAPS last year, and we were just talking beforehand, and he was describing how their research with the MDMA studies for PTSD, they were kind of

doing a neurochemical assay of where are folks when they're in that safe, open, connected place in themselves that allows them to go back and revisit traumatic experiences and kind of rewrite them, you know, kind of over encode them with a new story. And he said, it's actually tends to be high prolactin, high vasopressin, high oxytocin. And interestingly, threshold beta wave brain activity. So it's not that they're completely zonked and they're sort of off in alpha theta, like super dreamy. There's actually enough waking consciousness there that they're able to steer and they're able to kind of navigate the filing cabinets and this and that. But it's generally speaking a kind of dreamy, safe, secure, warm and love place. And he said, interestingly, the closest analog we found to that is post-orgasm. You're like, huh, huh okay that's interesting so 30 years

10 million bucks to get one substance hot as fuck to navigate all these gates or how else could we get humans to a post-orgasmic state in order to heal trauma and nicole prowsey who was at the kinsey institute and is now that you know famous and controversial researcher who's done research on pornography and research on women's arousal, all these sort of things. She actually did the studies on one taste and orgasmic meditation as well. But she's really iconoclastic and tragically, she's taken a ton of hits for this. I mean, like her world is really chaotic. In fact, Aaron Alexander has had her on his podcast as well. She's a badass and fearless, but is clearly creating a lightning rod of backlash and haters in the world. But one of her research projects is on validating women's orgasm as a replacement for SSRIs. Wow. Right? replacement for ssris wow right and the idea that hey look if you can naturally trigger this cascade of neurochemistry um surely that's going to be more healing with less side effects you know all of those kind of things um and shouldn't we be able to have that as part of our health care

regimes so you lay all this stuff together you lay traditional tantra you know western sex magic and then contemporary neuroscience and research around trauma and healing and, you know, and that notion of the huge evolutionary drivers. You're like, this is a pretty compelling case as to why we might want to introduce a component of basically sexual fitness to our overall regimes of becoming next level humans right yeah and and that's different than like the emotional romantic like if you want to have that absolutely have it like you don't need to like overburden valentine's day you know or courtship or any of these things but if you basically said hey um there are there's a there's a sexual yoga, right? A set of practices that are distinctly available and it's more fun and more potent with a practice partner, right?

Therefore, we need to figure out how do we relate to each other in a way that's ethical, grounded, stable, that lets us engage in these practices. Because right now, I think that there's a ton of conversation in the relationship space that i find super uninteresting it's really boring actually which is basically a whose format is better right is monogamy better is polyamory better and there's a lot of very low level kind of almost pissing match right well i think that's kind of how the narrative goes through any conversation, right? Through the political climate, through social media, through all these different things, through social justice warriors, you name it.

Yeah. There's no gray area. It's almost like an old school need through the old patterning of communication to decide black and white. Yeah, exactly. And it doesn't really leave us very far along this path of inquiry. So, you know, the classic is that people who are in defense of traditional monogamy look at swinging polyamory, et cetera, with a slightly prudish lens. They say, oh, that will never work. And there's, the legitimate critiques and questions of stability of indulgence of what happens to the kids etc etc etc right that's a standard one polyamorous tend to say oh bed death

you know compliance based joyless lifelong partnership yeah how many things how many monogamous relationships end in in divorce and how many end with infidelity yeah yeah yeah and and i think it's it's more interesting you know to sort of pan back to the anthropological level and be like hey look how does sexuality and relational format um what are the options you know so you start at the bottom of the stack with celibacy like celibacy is a tool of cultivating sexual energy right it doesn't just have to be shut it down block it it can actually be a way of channeling and intensifying it for spiritual practice or other ends then you have serialogamy, which is by far and away the

default in the Western world over the last several thousand years, which is just, you know, if nothing else, infant mortality and maternal death would lead a man of means, in particular, to have multiple wives over life. And now it's happening in Westlake all the time, just with expensive divorces, right? But it just used to happen because of life. And then there's lifelong monogamy, and then there's any other form of open relating, right? Let's say, you know, yeah, let's just call it that. We'll just call it polyamory. So, for me, what I think is much more interesting than getting into strawman conversations, where you set up the worst case example of one format to contrast and justify your own format. Let's just say they're all paths,

right? They're all relational formats that can lead to higher levels of awakening, integration, and development. So rather than getting a raptor on the axle of format let's consider what is the goal that we might all be seeking which is not monogamy right but potentially higher agami which would be in the greek phrase hyros gamos was the sacred union right it was literally the ritualized if you've seen eyes wide shut that stanley kubrick right? That was a sexified Victoria's Secret-y kind of expression. That union, that ritual of an archetypal man, archetypal woman in union to create some form of higher spiritual activity was what the Greeks called hieros gamos. And that's a mouthful. So, you can, I i think just a play on words you can say higher agami

which is what is the what is the unions that get us higher right and and that is a very different question than um who do i shack up with and why yeah yeah right and because i mean it sort of doesn't really as long as it's consent we're 21st century there's we're all consenting adults as long as we're playing nicely we're honoring our century, we're all consenting adults. As long as we're playing nicely and we're honoring our agreements, like who gives a fuck? Yeah. Right? Let's not re-litigate and litigate that all the time. Let's be like, hey, you're playing well with your special friends.

What are you seeing? What are you learning? How are we growing? And that to me becomes like, that's the conversation I'd love for more of. I think it's probably time for us all to move into that space because what I know, actually, go ahead. I was just going to say, I think that that is a critical point that you're making. And,

you know, one of the reasons I see, I forget, you know, we've had a ton of questions since we've began to talk about our relationship model as it is, as it stands now. And I have, you know, I should say we started Open Relationship seven years into monogamy. And that would never have fucking worked without that foundational piece being met, without being by each other's side and working through all of our shit together to get here, to where we could handle all of the challenges that have presented themselves. But with that, the intention of growth,

like how do we grow together? How do we use whatever stimulus, whether it is other partners or plant medicines or anything for that matter, the practices of yoga and meditation, how do we use those to grow is a very different thing than, I think I want to fuck other people. And it's really a landing pad for us to realize that all of these things that come at us as challenges, if we look through the lens of growth, we can use that to heal and to grow together. And that's really why we've been able to extract and make it work thus

far we could at some point we may talk about personal stuff but my point in bringing that up is i don't find that many people in the space of any relationship model whether it is for monogamy or polyamory or open or any of these other in-betweens is thinking of it that way. And that could be the thing that causes staleness in monogamy because you're not looking to grow with your partner. It's the same mindset as somebody who finishes college and says, I don't need to read another book for the rest of my life. I've done all my learning. I'm good. If you treat the partner that way and the relationship you're in that way, to read another book for the rest of my life. Yeah. Right? I've done all my learning. I'm good. Yeah. Right? If you treat the partner that way

and the relationship you're in that way, it's stagnant water. It's not flowing anymore. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, I think you just referenced something that's really important to tease apart, which is that in most conversations

about monogamy, polyamory, for instance, we get trapped by the language and we think that it's a polar choice or a binary. It's either or. But I think it's much more layered. So there's, let's call it conventional monogamy down here, which is code-based social norms, compliance, living it, doing it the way my parents did

and what the neighbors think, right? And then there's conventional polyamory, which is basically, I'd like to bang other people. I'd like some novelty. I don't want to say no to my appetites and desires. And we're going to practice some form of nonviolent communication and keep it all real, right? And that really, I mean, I think there's a lot of disingenuousness at that level. I don't think it's nearly as transformative for most people as they'd like to pay the lip service to. And really, I'm novelty seeking and I like to like what I like. And there's a lot of extra hopped up lip service to the higher aspirational ideals.

But really, it's still evolution just playing a trick on us. I just like these slow motion breakups. I want to start banging someone else I'm going to tell you about instead of doing it behind your back but really new relationship energy is going to fucking win the day and we just i just keep fucking you while i start fucking the other the next person right and it's not actually that honest i think what would be much more honest at that level is just saying hey we'd like to we'd like to have an open relationship and have sex with other people versus we all love each other equally, et cetera, et cetera. But so you've got conventional monogamy, and then I think you've got conventional polyamory.

People haven't actually really transformed what they're doing. But then above that, you have post-conventional monogamy, like true sacred union, dyadic, right? And then potentially above that, you have transformational polyamory, which I think, you know, is quite likely a pinnacle point of human relating and working with sexual energy. It's just that a tiny, tiny fraction of people ever make it that far up the stack. Most people get sidelined and distracted, toggling between conventional monogamy and conventional polyamory. And the thing about Tantra, right? I mean, the thing about like a working definition of Tantra is just basically activities or practices that burn

through karma. So back to that notion of the crucible. And it's really easy to make more karma and really hard to burn it off cleanly. And so if you end up in complex relationships, which, right, I mean, obviously, you know, Metcalfe's law of network theory is that the complexity of a network goes up with the square of the number of nodes in the network, right? So two people squared is four, right? Three people squared is nine. So things get complicated quickly. Yes, they do. Right? No doubt. And what you will notice is that if the point of tantric relating is to be burning off karma, but you're increasing exponential complexity with each other, then you might spend all of your time just trying to get

back into present tense connection with each other. And that takes a fuck ton of time, a lot. And you might not even get there. I mean, most relationships are unstable in this space and they're constantly pairing and breaking and pairing and breaking. And so you're only just trying to metabolize karma as you keep creating more of it versus that transformational monogamous stage where you're like, actually, we're going to sit here and not flinch. We're not going to stir up the pond at all. And we're just going to free dive. We're just going to go here and not flinch. We're not going to stir up the pond at all. And we're just going to free dive. We're just going to go deeper and deeper and deeper. And so there's a real peril in conventional polyamory, the first stage of having your karma get in the way of your dharma.

You're creating more causes and effects, right? You're carrying more blowback, more drama that is impeding you from getting to and psycho-excavating your purpose. And so I even had this thought yesterday with my partner, which was like, it's almost like a cenote, right? Down in Tulum, right? Those beautiful limestone cave aquifers, right? And the

bottoms might look almost like it was going to be a little 20-foot deep pool, but there's another column that goes deeper and another column that goes deeper. And if you stay straight in the center of it, you can free dive all the way to the depths of consciousness, all the way down. But if you rattle around, if you knock off some coral, if you stir shit up, then suddenly you can't see anything. And suddenly all those caves and nooks and crannies, aka the drama, the karma, the relationships, can trap you, even drown you.

And yet, if you stay smack dab in the center, you can descend the water column all the way down into infinite spaciousness. And that's arguably the game, which is can we, you know, no new karma. And if you're spending all your time processing and integrating how she thinks about what he did and how they feel and all this kind of stuff, all you're ever doing is horizontal activity, trying to get back to being present in relationship, horizontal activity, and you're not actually dropping deeper and deeper and deeper. And so that becomes a real, you know, that's just an open question.

Like if that's your jam, like if you're saying, hey, my dharma is to lean into novel relational formats. Awesome. You know, then you're doing the work. But if your dharma is something else, but also in just socially and personally curious, checking in with communities of practice, particularly West Coast, Colorado, Burning Man community, transformational community, etc. Who felt like the kind of leaders, advocates, teachers, voices in the space of transformational relationship, basically. It felt like there were sort of four things, you know, like you can have a soulmate, let's just, we'll call it that, let's just say, you know, a deeply bonded, connected, committed primary relationship. You can have children. You can have life's work. You can have polyamorous relationships. Pick three of those four. So if you don't have, let's say you've come out, let's say you've had children and you're no longer in that relationship and you want to simply relate openly and you have passionate work in the world. Awesome.

You could probably do that. If you have primary partner, compelling work in the world, no kids. You've got the bandwidth for open relationship. I haven't yet seen anybody nail all four. So this is not a law. This is merely a thesis, right? But we haven't seen it violated yet because it's just a bandwidth question. Yeah. Yeah. And what is your work to be done? Yeah. When you brought this up to me on our hike, it blew my fucking mind because it put, it really put into words the feeling that I had within, which was at this stage of our relationship and and you know for people who've been following along my wife's had a boyfriend for over a year now I have not been called to have another girlfriend having experienced that I mean I felt like my

consciousness was pulled in every fucking direction so to use the cenote example I would have been in every crevice and every cavern except for ascending or descending into the depths of my own consciousness and awakening. It felt like I was putting out fires everywhere. And I think what I told you was I would rather learn how to paint better or play Native American flute with my spare time or read fucking finish this center the cyclone book or the king the warrior the magician the lover anything else yeah that fills my cup is more valuable to me with my time and my bandwidth and what my mental capacity can handle because we have a soon-to-be five-year-old and we have a baby girl coming on the way this summer and we have uh i mean fuck i mean i this summer. And we have, I mean,

fuck, I mean, I'm definitely doing the vocation. I have my life's work. It's having interesting conversations with people like you. It's continuing to learn and to grow. And as I work on piecing together key elements to a better life, sharing that with the world, that fucking matters to me a lot more than who else can i fuck yeah i mean so much of it just feels like the difference between an alchemist and an addict is the scoreboard yeah right because i mean the tools but you know especially once we're in this left-hand path like you can work with it all you can play with all these hedonistic or hedonic technologies you can get lost spinning in that space. And really the only thing to separate,

am I spinning or am I bringing back gold, right? Is do I ship it? Yeah. Right? And as long as there's some new novel diversion, we can become slaves to our own dopamine loops and our own pleasure seeking. And then we're just fucking little monkeys just beating off.

And the difference between God-man and jerking monkey is a razor's edge. And if you're not subscribing to orthodox guardrails, you're i'm gonna trust my own judgment and steer it's very easy it's like driving on a highway in a whiteout it's very easy to end up in the ditch and not even notice you got there you know because you don't hear the rumble strip and and so you know and then that goes back to sort of mate selection it's sort of like if you're pure it's like the difference between like sport fucking and sport climbing to me, it seems an interesting analogy because, you know, with sport fucking, if it's just, we're here as consenting adults to, you know, rub bodies and have fun. That's awesome. Good for you.

Like you need to like do it nicely, be clean with each other, that kind of thing. And that's very similar to sport climbing. Like if you go to an indoor climbing gym and all the anchors are bolted and all the ascenders are mechanical and you can really hard to fuck it up. And you can climb, you can tie into a rope with pretty much anybody. And if somebody looks good in their climbing harness and leggings, you're like, hey, honey, you want to climb with me? Let's do this. And it's very low consequence, high enjoyment, pretty easy to do, very low bar for who i would tie in on a rope with to sport climb but when you think about the kind of sex magic tantra space then that's much more like high altitude mountaineering right and who i choose to do that with is a fundamentally different filter it's not do you look good in the climbing outfit, right? Or would I like a romp with you? It's, can I hang with you for three days hanging on a portal edge at 6,500 meters,

hanging on by our fingernails as a Himalayan storm rips through? Or if I take a whipper and break both my femurs, do you have the skills and the wits to get me safely back down to a helicopter evac? Right? And so the bar there is really, it's a fundamentally different question.

Even though we get so fixated on like sexuality that we often don't get past that. And so the sport climbing to sport fucking versus high altitude mountaineering your selection for for climbing partners to go into that death zone that place of high high consequence and high risk is fundamentally different and and that's that's the other theme in the sex at dawns and the untruths in all of these books which i keep reading and then wishing they would go further. Yeah. Because the basic thesis of these books is saying, hey, there's a lot of old, rickety, rigid,

maybe even inaccurate social customs and norms. And if we are to be free, sex-positive, consenting adults, we should take those things away. And you're like, awesome, that's great. But it's fundamentally around that notion of kind of secular humanist sex positivity. We should take away the barriers to a full exploration of sensation, relation, pleasure. And that's great, but it's a very tactical argument because what happens is if you follow sex positivity far enough, right, you kind of end up, you know, it shares a backyard fence with Tantra and sex magic. and allowing people to experience things freely, that's an awesome antidote to repressive social norming. But the backyard fence bumps right up against sex magic and tantra. And there's a fuck ton of rules in that space because it's like, you don't know what you don't know. And in fact, it's very easy to overcook, to lose your mind, to do a bunch of

things. And so, for me, it's a little bit, I mean, now I'm mixing metaphors madly, but it's a little bit like the difference between, you know, being a kind of hooligan at a ski resort and you're trying to stay away from the ski patrol. You know, they're going to clip your ticket if you're going too fast, you're jumping air off the catwalks, right? And you're like, you're not the boss of me, fuck you, man, you know, right? And clip your ticket if you're going too fast you're jumping air off the catwalks right and you're like you're not the boss of me fuck you man you know right and that's the game you just stay away from ski patrol right which is kind of the realm of like sex positivity like let us go do what we want and have fun without repression or punishment great but then you go through the those little back country gates at the top sometimes you see

right especially in resorts out west and it's's like, hey, you know, like avalanche zone, like you need your equipment. You need to have a transceiver. You need to have a shovel. You need to have probes. You need to know what the fuck you're doing out here. Because while it looks the same, it's all white stuff. We get to slide down, right? It's not the same.

Inside the boundaries, there's avalanche control. There's grooming. There's all these things that make this place safe. Out there, you're actually in a dynamic lethal environment, right? And if you don't know what you're doing out there, you have no business going. And so, I think that that's the question, which is particularly when you combine psychedelics, you combine sexuality, you combine all these liberating and liberated technologies, the tendency is to say you're not the boss of me right yeah i i am my own master versus holy smokes we're in we're in territory that is um complex potentially fatal

profoundly beautiful right but but is a but is a fundamentally different environment than the one that we were just leaving. Without a doubt. All right, so now we can get into, now that we've paved the way here, let's get into the juicy stuff, brass tacks. Yeah. Yeah, so... Yeah, I mean, I think the simplest is just to say, okay, so now we've laid out the formats,

the idea of ideally some form of sexual yoga of becoming is potentially a category or form of accelerated human development. The historical lineages East and West are sort of tantra and sex magic. The relational formats can be any option you choose, celibacy, serial monogamy, lifelong monogamy, polyamory, or open relating. That is a subset of hierogamy, which is ideally any relational format that gets you to those higher domains, the sacred union. And that there are tools and techniques that can accelerate basically the access to peak experience and the healing and integration of trauma. So now we can talk about roadmaps, like how to actually get this done. So let's just say it requires high trust, high integrity, impeccable human relating,

because without it, if you're going down that cenote, right, or if we use that example, right, you will get, you will muddy the water, you will or if we use that example right you will get you'll muddy the water you will not be able to see right and you will end up um risking life and limb and as an example right i mean alistair crowley the kind of you know famous i just got his uh magic number four book four uh but i want you to dive i haven't opened it yet but i looked at it and i was like holy shit this dude went deep he went crazy deep he went crazy deep i mean he he he a he was one of the best mountaineers of his generation so he was pioneering like crazy mixed snow and ice routes in scotland and europe that no one else had done. He was on mushrooms in Mexico

on one of the volcanoes, got this huge fucking download and then goes to Egypt and downloads his whole thing at the pyramids. He was utterly radical. He was hanging out in the Abbey of Thelema, his sort of temple, having sex with one of his consorts high on hash and opium while playing chess against four dudes in different rooms around him and defeating them all i mean he was a fucking g and writing poetry i mean like like absolute polymath and insinuated himself in basically the Western Hermetic orders, like the Golden Dawn that Yeats was a part of and all of these different secret societies that were the keepers of the kind of Persian, Greco-Roman, Egyptian sort of sacred transformational traditions. It rocketed to the top of each of them, blew them all up and kind of destroyed them and then kept going until he created and then created his own ultimately. So, I mean like truly epic,

well beyond the, you know, six, six, six, he's the sign of the beast, you know, showed up on the back of shot Sergeant Pepper guy.

And yet, you know, also a super cautionary tale kind of like Lily Lily, where you're like, huh, if they were finding all of that light, how did they end up, how did it not bear fruit visibly in their life? not enough to just go seeking truth or seeking power for the sake of it, right? We have to be able to bring it back home. It has to bear fruit in our lives and in a way that's stable, in a way that's grounded, in a way that's life-affirming and supporting for everyone we care about and are responsible for. And Crowley, I mean, he burned out three of his consorts. He called them Scarlet Women when they were initiated into that role. And they lost their minds. Damn.

Right? So, at first, there's a kind of a titillating sense. It's like, oh, cool, super sexy time. Want to know all about it. And the realities are, it definitely works. It works better than you can imagine. And you will find yourself in incredibly high altitude, high consequence terrain faster than you know. So just to state those things as kind of, you know, appropriate precautions.

And if you engage in this process, I mean, my partner and I literally had to kind of like write on a piece of paper and stick on the fridge, like, remember, colon, we did this on purpose. Because you get into it and you will forget. You will forget where you are. And then what arises is so triggering and so right because i mean back to that crucible idea right the idea is is how do you turn the flame and tune it so that it precisely keeps your whole self-system you know your nervous system your

psychology your all of it on a slow simmer without boiling over right it's like when you're stoned in college and trying to make mac and cheese and you crank that fucker on high because you really want the cheese it's a mess right and then you turn it off and the whole thing settles but like that's and you get goopy pasta right you actually want an alchemy you want the slow simmer and when you engage in these practices um they at first you're like okay this is super fun and then you're like oh my gosh we're in the ooey gooey like we're in like the warm honey and we can't miss this is amazing this feels so good i've never felt this good actually this is incredible and and then you're like we can't we can't miss. No look threes. Look at us. We're just fucking smiling. Until it. You want to puke. You hate each other.

And so Barry Long, who was an Australian tantra teacher, said until you would rather eat a shit sandwich, you haven't even begun tantra. Wow. So this is sex as a practice. Yep. In the same way that psychedelics would be used as a practice for uncoveringing peeling back layers

awakening and that has a built-in requirement of working through your shit yeah 100 and the notion that the shittiest shit will actually occlude your self-awareness that it is your shit you're working through in that moment it will hijack you and you will get pulled down into that old narrative pattern so you will get sucked down into the hell realms and the only thing you'll have to survive is muscle memory of how you know like like in like in surfing when you get dumped by a wave and you can't tell you're in the washing machine and you can't tell which way is up, what do they say? They say, climb your leash, right? Because your board floats, right?

And you don't know which way is up. And that is your only location. So, returning to the love, returning to the practice, staying with it. So, I'll back up and just set up a parameter, which is the difference between sexual yoga and your romantic sexuality is that romantic sexuality is typically either an exclamation point on a good day, like, woohoo, you know, I just got a raise or a promotion, or I just kicked ass, like, let's go have sex and celebrate, you know, or it's a power negotiation tool that is dispensed or withheld to gain other things in life or the

relationship, both of which are relatively ephemeral, shitty, not that profound. Sexual yoga is we commit to this as ironclad practice the same way I do to working out or flossing my teeth or whatever. I don't wait to see if I feel like it in order to do it. I do it because I value the long-term accrued benefits. And if it's helpful, you can separate the two. You can still do the Valentine's Day. You can still do the Wahoo, I love you. You can do all that.

But the notion of adding in a sexual fitness or a sexual yoga practice is pronounced. And that is a daily, weekly, monthly calendar Where you stick with it hell or high water, especially high water, right? Especially when I hate your fucking guts and we're going to bow onto the mat anyway, right? And that's the beginning of turning up the heat and of creating the container of the alchemical crucible. So, we can come at this a thousand different ways, but basically at the highest level, what you're attempting to do, I mean, you mentioned psychedelics as distinct. I mean, this actually all goes together at some point. So basically, again, if you pursue this with grounded ethical connection, relational strength, discipline, humility, openness, and you don't

flinch. You will end up with basically, and you're open to making use of all the tools and technologies, respiration, movement and embodiment, sexuality and orgasm, music and art and substances. And you basically end up with a acroyoga, Thai massage, psychedelic dance party, fuckery session that ends up in rad, shamanic tantric space. And what that can look like is the idea of saying, okay, back out sexuality for a second. And you should like, if you're just on the route to wholeness, what do I do? Well, I do body work, right? I do emotional psychodynamic work. I do breath work.

I learned to control my physiology. I learned to not be in a fight flight, sympathetic stress response. I learned to down regulate. I learned to do all these things. And then you basically just say yes to all that, and then just add cultivating and releasing sexual erotic orgasmic energy to pulse the nervous system in a period of peak arousal such that I light up all my circuits with light. And I use that to both gain inspiration, which typically comes through at those times, as well as gain insight into where in my system is still broken or impeded. And then I can even use some of that juice to then mend as I go. And that, I mean, arguably, I'm not aware of a more comprehensive protocol because it kind of makes sense.

You know, you're leveraging hormonal stuff, you're leveraging neurophysiology, you're leveraging all of these things. And back to the MAPS PTSD research, you are engaging in profound trauma work and integration. And so, I mean, I'm torn now between getting into specific paint by numbers, like the how-tos versus the emotional, psychological. Let's start with emotional and then let's get into the how-tos versus the emotional, psychological. Let's start with emotional and then let's get into the how-tos.

I definitely want to get that. Yeah. So let's just say we're going to come back to the how-tos, but let's just say we're doing it and we're doing a daily and a weekly practice. And it doesn't always have to be slam-bam fuckery every day. It's just a matter of you just keeping the flywheel spinning, right? So you're generating heat, you're generating these things. We talked about how you might start out in the first band at like Honey, you know, where we were kind of playfully called the Yum, you know, where it's super ooey

gooey and super pleasurable and fun. You burn through that. While you're in it, you think you can't fall off it, and then you fall off it and you hit the next layer of psychoarchaeology where you're like, oh, this is a pain point in our relationship. This is an imbalance. This is something from my past, from our past. We've just paved over in the comings and goings of life. We get to that, that knocks us out of it. We might even forget we were in it. We might even forget that we were conducting an intentional practice to get us to this level. Once we're in it, it's just like, fuck this, I hate this and I hate you, right? If you flinch at that point, you get booted out and you forget you were playing the game. You've turned off the

flame, right? If you can remember however painful and white knuckling it is and stay in the practice and stay in the love, then you can learn to work it out. So we don't actually have to have a bitch session. We don't have to go to our couples therapist. We don't have to do all the normal stupid shit that people do thinking that words are going to replace energetics. You can work it out. Work out the kinks. Work out your problems. Work out your solutions, work out your answers, work out your questions. You can work it out in a neurophysiological way via the deliberate cultivation and cycling of the psychosexual energy. And you can also learn to make love, right? Because if love is really just a neurochemical profile, I don't have to talk to you about it until we stumble ourselves back into it. We can just be like, hey,

let's do that. Let's create high vagal nerve tone. Let's create an abundance of oxytocin. Let's create dopamine and endorphins. Let's precipitate that physiological profile and then see how we feel. So once you realize that, that is a complete reversal of all of human relational dynamics and norms. We don't talk about it. I don't negotiate. I don't say, you do the dishes and I'll laundry the socks

or you had a guy's weekend. So now I get a girl's weekend and a spa day. None of this tit for tat scarcity mindset bullshit. You're like, we can fucking print money. We don't need to be hoarding the piggy bank right and so learning to literally engineer and make love becomes a profound insight of like how do we go through this so we we can fuck it out we don't have to talk it out and that doesn't mean we're repressing the dynamics. It's choosing a neurosomatic way of metabolizing them and working through them versus just linguistics from ego-based separate identity. So let's just say you're engaging this game of psychoarchaeology.

And I realize I'm throwing out a lot of like neologisms, but I think people can track them. And you kind of just burn through each layer. And the prize, it's almost like a video game, the prize for not flinching and staying in your practice, staying on, bowing on the mat, which is effectively your bed, right, is that you get the level up. So if the level of pain and trauma that you're now getting down to, you haven't visited for a while or ever, you have a choice. You either get hijacked in the narrative and you get stuck in cause-effect loops, aka creating more karma. But if you don't flinch and you stay in the practice, then you dissolve it forever. And you can do that to get to the deep now with each other. Because we're very rarely in co-located in time and space and identity with each other, right? So if we're sitting together and we've got a long history, right? It's always my leading edge. What's my latest ayahuasca insight or breakthrough?

What's my most profound new me? Oh, the scales have fallen from my eyes. I used to think this, but now I am that. Versus your partner's bleeding edge, which is where's the last place you hurt me deeply? And I've got that registered, you know, Bessel van der Kolk issues are in the tissues, right? Where's the last place you fucking hurt me? And I'm located back there. So, I might be six months or six years out of phase with your newest, greatest, shiniest, right? And that creates all kinds of dissonance and conflict. And the number of times that somebody on their leading edge starts then projecting their shadow back to their partner of like, oh, we're just not on the

same path. They're not just as interested in spiritual growth as I am. They don't even recognize who I've become now. I think I might need to separate or start banging someone else, right? I mean, it's so many easy ways versus owning the shadow, which the person holding the trauma is saying, hey, in order for me to trust this new you, I have to have you come back and credibly make amends and atonement for the old you that hurt me here in this way. Right?

And the temptation for spiritual bypass for the new person is like, I'm not going back. I'm never going back. I'm a totally different fucking person now. I've let all that go. And it's like, well, not so much. we're always out of phase and throw in kids and that's a huge time like like who are we as new parents this is who are who are we as parents of teenagers right we're different humans and our kids have been imprinting us off us that entire time probably more accurately than we were ever aware, right? And so, 4D psychology,

like how do we add in the layer of time, right? Because I mean, you guys use that phrase a lot, but that St. Paul thing of love keeps no record of wrong, right? When we enter Kairos together, when we enter the deep now, where there are no records of wrong, right? There's only love. There's only mutuality, right? So wherever three or more are gathered, right? There I shall be. So getting to that is both powerful, beautiful, and tricky. And the moment we kick out into our records of wrong, right? We've created another karmic loop. So if we engage in this practice, we can go through our relational backlog and we can use the experience of enoughness, love, belonging in those states to then revisit past trauma and release it. And if we can release

it without reanimating the stories and kicking back into the dynamics, then we can flush it from our system. And again, Rick Doblin talks about it. He's like, memories aren't simply a scrapbook we take off the shelf, look at, and put back. We take them off the shelf, we look at them, and then we rewrite them again, and then we put it back.

So you can literally go through that experience. You can then, once you've done that, and this is not like cleanly linear, you kind of jump around, but then you can you know generally speaking pairs will take on those kind of roles or energetics um and if you've ever done eye gazing right i mean i think even in like academic studies 70 of people doing eye gazing experience shape-shifting of the partner they're looking at of some kind of course in the academic studies they don't venture guesses as to why right but let's just say that if you're in extended tantric space low light altered state kind of experiences you can often experience your lover um shifting right and different aspects or elements so it can be the you know and sometimes they're spooky sometimes

they're not romantic sometimes it can be you know the rap, and sometimes they're spooky. Sometimes they're not romantic. Sometimes it can be, you know, the rapist, the murderer, the lecher, the pervert, the monster, the slut, the whore, the angel, you name it. Right? You can sort of just flicker through all the archetypes and you're like, holy smokes, like the two of us are having sex, making love, doing whatever we're doing. But in fact, it feels like we're holding or experiencing the entire catalog of the masculine feminine dance through time. And that can be super, I mean, if you don't balk, if you don't freak out, and again, anytime there's a freak out, anytime you collapse into narrative, boom, you're out. But if you can stay in the center of it, just descending, descending, descending, that is for sure a layer to go through. And in fact, my partner, Julie, a year ahead of me too, was experiencing the imbalances and the suffering and the vulnerabilities of the feminine in this space. And she was doing her best to name it as she was experiencing it.

She's like, I think there's a big reckoning coming. I think there's an awful lot of feminine pain that needs to be expressed. And it was curious because we didn't know and she was just feeling her way into that descriptor. But it's things like that. You start getting into the archetypal psychosexual dynamics that are not just about your life together. There's something deeper and more timeless.

So you're kind of in that realm of mythopoetics. And like dipping into morphic resonance or the collective consciousness of all females ever. Yeah. And again, that requires strength and grace and wisdom to hold without having it spin you out anyway, really, and to stay in the eye of the cyclone right and not flinch and then ultimately there's there's levels of even deeper you know non-human and or timeless archetypes of like original man original woman and then potentially you know yeah i would just say non-human archetypal energies.

And so then you're dancing, then you're sort of sky dancing and you're up in the realm of the gods. And then boobity, boobity, boobity, boo, back to me and you, back to Monday morning, back to school buses and lunches and cleaning, right? So the ability to integrate that stuff into the householder's path, right?

Can be really beautiful because I mean, let's face it, right? I mean, life's a bitch. Work is hard. Nitty gritty wears us all down. And trying to make a life together is a lot of withdrawals from the energetic bank account.

And to have a way to make love, to have a way to restock our reserves is profoundly useful and beneficial. And then there's one other element with like, as you find your way into hierogamy, like, holy smokes, this isn't just about bumping uglies, right? This is about a gateway to expanded information, insight, and inspiration. And we talked about the post-conventional monogamy,

not the traditional bed death one. Then you're like, wow, what we're doing together is no longer fucking. What we're doing together is we're saying, hey, we're two primates with neocortexes and spinal columns connected to erogenous zones. And if we learn to hook these up, we create a time-traveling space egg that lets us surf the fucking universe together. And that was, by the way, that was Crowley's big insight was literally that the working of LAM, L-A-M, was something that he and one of his consorts discovered in like 1917 by accident, which is a whole other story. And so you're like, oh shit. So you're my like galactic fucking space captain. Like, why would I be looking to pick some girl up at the TGI at Fridays? It would take a year to get you up to speed. And I'm not even sure you could hang if we got there.

So rather than the notion of like, oh, I'm in committing to this relationship, I'm missing out on novelty. I'm missing out on pleasure. I'm missing out on sensation. You're like, oh no, this is a totally different category of experience. And the bar, back to sport climbing versus high altitude climbing, the bar for who gets to do this is so high that it instantly takes all the FOMO of just casual novelty-seeking sexuality off the table. you're like the thing we do is utterly transpersonal and so there becomes a way to cherish and deeply appreciate right the stability and the reliability of hey you finished my sentence hey we can coil ropes you fix lines you know where all your stuff goes you don't lose your shit and we can go to the high ground because it's the view from the high ground that is what lights us up right not just can we monkey around on climbing holes yeah that's fucking fantastic well you you definitely have my interest uh beyond peaked let's talk about some of the how-tos yeah so i mean basically and in fact i just jotted this

down for the first time i've been thinking of it in my head for a while um but basically what is the sort of uh hedonic engineering matrix? What are the kind of the tools, the interventions, the activities that you can use in a way that is sort of open source configurable? So it's the idea is not that this is the way. This is a toolkit, and here is a way of thinking of combining these things for different effects and results. Right. So, I mean, the first is, you know, basically we know that as far as states mapping states of consciousness, right, that kind of 21st century normal, right, is typically high beta wave neuroelectric activity, high default mode network rumination. I'm spinning out thinking about myself,

talking to myself, a lot of prefrontal cortical activity. Typically stress hormones. So norepinephrine, cortisol, right? I'm kind of in that forever triggered fight flight hypervigilance response. Typically low oxygenation, poor air exchange, right? So, I've got a lot of CO2 kind of buildup in my lungs. I'm not fully oxygenated. My posture, I'm often slumped, kind of shoulders rolled. Everything we do is forwards and collapsed,

versus back. Often, low testosterone, et cetera. You can kind of go down the list, probably poor vagal nerve tone, et cetera. And that's most of us, most of the time, it's like deconditioned zoo animals, grinding it out in traffic and working desks and that kind of stuff. So you're like, okay, so we know that, we know what that set of parameters discloses

as far as our lived experience, how it feels to be alive in that state. And then you're like, okay, but a lot of fun stuff happens in alpha and theta wave activity. That's generally calming meditation into deep hypnagogic spaciness and spaciousness. We know that dopamine is generally fun and sets us up and makes us pay attention. Endorphins typically do the same. Anandamide, the endogenous endocannabinoid. These things are pleasure-producing, pain-reducing, often cognition-enhancing, as with the neuroelectric stuff.

We know that tryptamines in our nervous system and our brains are righteous. We know that fascial integration and open spine and pelvic mobility are positives. We know all these things. So you're basically like, okay, now how do we steer stuff over there? So you could start with a daily practice of orgasmic meditation, right? Which is just a 15-minute practice of stimulant, again, cis-heteronormative, so adapt as needed. But you could basically say, okay, on a daily basis, hell or high water, for the sake of sexual fitness, not for romance, right? We commit to 15 minutes of stimulating the female partner's clitoris as lightly as possible, as slowly as possible for 15 minutes without expectation of reciprocity or foreplay, right? Or climax. So this is purely a nervous system sensitization practice, as well as whatever positive neurochemical cascade it

triggers. And there's some research, and I don't think Nicole has published this yet, but she's been on it for a couple of years, and I'm super curious as to her results, because they had a thesis that after three months sustained of that, that a woman becomes turned on, which was kind of their placeholder category for a woman who is basically not in a hyper vigilant response and is basically able to express her full true self not unlike an mdma experience that that actually becomes a sort of new normal for a woman after this now i haven't seen the definitive research but it's that's the intriguing thesis. So you say that. So that basically in that. And also for the male in this situation, if you think about guys, since the age of 12 to 14,

most guys have been neurologically encoded and imprinted on harder, faster, harder, faster. Basically grip it and beat off like a fucking monkey until orgasm as fast as possible. And the more aroused I get, the hotter and faster I do the thing. Right? Which if you look at most low-level pornography is still in play. So we're getting it visually encoded, all these kind of things. And the practice of that orgasmic meditation practice is slower, softer. Which is actually a mindfuck for a guy.

So you have a partner that's appearing to get aroused. What is it? I want to go harder, faster. No. Slower, softer. Slower, softer. Which in itself, because I mean, people will often ask, well, what's in it for the dude on this one? Well, what's in it for the dude is two things. One, you're going to rewire that overwhelmingly strong imprint. And number two, you're basically,

you know, giving your partner the ability to sort of rise up the escalator of the building of their arousal so that you will start on the second floor or the third floor of their arousal and sensitivity in a way that's fundamentally different than 15 minutes of you doing your signature special moves. If you even last that long, I mean, most dudes don't, right? So, the idea of just that. Then you can engage in edge play to bring your partner close to climax. And this works both directions. So you can take turns doing this. And when you're ready, you can basically, what we would call a 52.1 protocol. So I'll back up for a second, say, set the scene. So beautiful, clean, aesthetically dialed room, some form of showman or altar, like a focal point that is often at the foot of the bed, right?

Candles, good music, you know, just dial your space, vibe it out and have beautiful transformational music, ideally with super fucking funky drops, right? So you then, you know, you're writing, you've got the environment and the scene set, low light, candles, music, and significance, aesthetics. It can just be Pythagoras 101. It doesn't need to get highly ritualized or Wiccan.

It can just be, hey, pairs two candles with a focal point. It can be threes. It can be ones. It can be squares, circles, triangles like just arrange stuff in a way that is aesthetically and geometrically balanced and it'll do the thing okay right and the idea of like don't ape or imitate other people's juju don't put stuff up there that's not yours that hasn't come to you authentically right start minimalist all minimalist, all right? Go zen, right? But use it as an anchor point to hold.

And the same comes with body adornment, right? Just think of it all as sacred geometries. All we're trying to do is emphasize and align sacred geometries. So let's, well, I'll back up to the preconditions. For a woman, what we're trying to do, if you remember to the idea of the hedonic matrix, is we're trying to turn on all of the neurophysiology that we know leads to positive non-ordinary states. So for, actually for both partners really um nipple clamps are a simple way to do two things one is

they get they're slightly painful and actually when you turn when you take them off they can become quite painful as the blood all rushes back in so that is a endorphin stimulator like that's interesting they also any nipple stimulation stimulates oxytocin production so you're like okay so now we're going to have deeper pair bonding. And when we get to arousal, there's a four to one pain to pleasure tolerance close to orgasm. So at some point you can hotwire pleasure pain, right? So you're like, okay, so do that. The next is vagal nerve tone and pelvic floor engagement.

And so back to evolution being super efficient. It just is what it is, but you have to get comfortable with basically ass play and hygiene. So the same way you wouldn't smoke a cigar and vomit and then go kiss someone, right? You would prepare the orifice for his desired erotic activity. You do the same with your back door. But the reality is that our vagal nerve, I mean, effectively, we're still old school, we're worms with tubes, we're mouths and asses, right? You get rid of our limbs, like way back in the day, this is what we are at a root level. And our vagal nerve is the wandering nerve that

starts in our brain brain goes to our heart ends at our root and it's responsible for everything from blood pressure to senses of euphoria to i mean all sorts of biological regulation it is pretty much the most primal metronome of tuning our system of tuning our neurophysiology possible and when you engage it so anise seth i think he's in prin Princeton, he's a gastroenterologist, wrote a funny article where he even called it poo-phoria. You take a big dump and you actually, you get a drop in blood pressure, you get goosebumps and it can feel surprisingly good, right? And you're like, well, that's your vagal nerve tone. And vagal nerve tone,

most researchers these days are talking about like loving kindness meditation or even like electrical stimulation, almost like little pacemakers to do this kind of stuff well vagal nerve is also goggling singing gagging and taking a dump and you're like huh that's those are those are a way lower tech right don't need anything fancy don't need anything imaginal i can just actually do these things so we'll come back to this stuff in a second, but basically just say prep work. If you choose and you're in a state where it's allowed, by the way, you want a physician, Dan Savage talks about a good giving game

for sexual partners, right? He's like, those are the three Gs. I think you need a physician that's the three Cs, which is connected, curious, and courageous. So if you have a doctor who can help support you along these lines then you can have access to some of the pharmacology that can also be a helpful adjunct okay so all these things so those are my disclaimers and let's just say you're in a you either have a medical card or you're in a state where recreational is allowed cannabinoids are helpful because they engage the anandamide in your system. And so that's one of

the checklists on the matrix, right? You're like, oh, anandamide, cool. Endorphins, oxytocin, cool. Vagal nocturne, cool, right? You can sort of see how you're mixing and matching and you're building a programmed state experience via sexual fitness. So let's just say you start with high-grade sativa. You don't want to be in like couch lock, right? You want to be energized and awake. Interestingly, ancient Greeks used to use cannabinoids to increase uterine contractions in childbirth. There is some anecdotal and some evidentiary support that it increases the duration and intensity of women's orgasms as a result of that. And, you know, it's obviously it's sort of aphrodisiacal sensory affects are well known.

That's a, yeah, personal experience. N equals one. Confirm that for sure. Yeah. It feels like the orgasm just lasts forever. Myself included, but my wife most certainly feels that. Yeah, exactly. And then to say nothing of shutting off default mode network, shifting states of consciousness between waking self every day and the sacred practice you're engaging in.

And just one other sidebar on the 15 minutes daily. The beautiful thing about 15 minutes daily for anybody in a householder's path, particularly with children, et cetera, is like, when do you have time for like an hour to two hour throw down? Not that often. But when do you have time for 15 minutes? Infinitely more often, right?

And so the idea of just spinning the flywheel, spinning the flywheel is a profound lifestyle hack for re-engaging intimacy, et cetera. And for anybody that's like, oh, we don't get to have sex much anymore. We used to, like rabbits, and now we don't. And we're always too tired, et cetera. If you're waiting to the end of your day, that's the other thing. Men's testosterone tends to sag substantially after 8 p.m.

So the dude's T count is down. You're both exhausted, and most people think of alcohol as an aphrodisiac. So, you're like two drinks in, low testosterone, and fatigued at the end of the day. My partner and I are zero for like 100, nailing end of the day lovemaking. We're like, ah, fuck it, I'd rather sleep. I love you, I'll catch you in the morning. So, afternoon delight is a key time right the idea of like peak there's a spike in testosterone upon waking it then slowly degrades over the morning and there's another blip in early afternoon which is hence that rock and roll soon sky rockets in flight right so if you can schedule however you

have to jimmy your schedule for mid-afternoon, early to mid-afternoon, or at the very least, you know, dinner time to early evening, not the end of the day, you will radically change how you feel about each other. Along with that 15 minutes working, because that will create tension and polarity as well. So, most people are judging the strength of their relationship and their amount of love on the worst lie of the ball possible versus how else do we do this? And then just one other thing on scheduling and calendaring, you've got your daily practice, your 15 minutes, you've got, you probably, let's just say, schedule three actual lovemaking sessions a week to go Tuesdays and Thursdays for say 60 to 90 minutes, and then give yourself a Sabbath half day of like two to

three hours if you can. And then also you can schedule, you know, what the English called dirty weekends, right? Which is going away to fuck, right? You time that with your peak ovulation for your woman. So most guys don't even know that women's arousal changes rapidly. They might have heard of PMS and they might know when to duck when the plates come flying their way. Other than that, most dudes are fucking clueless. And typically the week after a woman's period is the week of her peak ovulation. She's got higher testosterone, progesterone, all these kinds of things that make her far more open to hot and heavy, physical engaged sex.

The week prior to her period is often her most fallow period. And if she's available at all, it will require much more sensitivity, much more touch, much more extended foreplay. Most dudes are like, well, I was rocking your world two weeks ago, baby, what happened? And they have no idea of that cycle. for her first and then for her partner essential and then you can time your once a month real blowouts for that week right and really time it and i mean it's a simple again i mean i i have a lot of sympathy for anybody doing the householder's path so a fun way to do this where you're also hacking dopamine is to do like hot wire roulette where um where you don't have to stay overnight particularly if you have kids right it's a pain in the ass to figure all this stuff out um and having overnight care and all that kind of stuff so instead of going to a dinner and a movie you do hot wire roulette you select four and five star hotels in your town you hit the button and you get a screaming deal on you don't know which and and read the reviews do the normal shit but like you can have a high degree like 90 or bus or plus you know approval ratings you get your hotel and

instead of dinner in a movie you just go there and have a three to four hour special session at your partner's peak time and then you come home and the babysitters none the wiser etc you've just rocked the scene and had a meaningful reboot together. So that's all back to calendaring. Now we're back to setting the scene and what we're going to do. So music, lights, camera, action, cannabis, if it's up your alley, sativa, you know, basically a high grade, highly embodied, energizing sativa, if you want to get particular. Then you engage in the 15 minutes of preparatory practice with nipple clamps and butt plugs. And for guys, there's the Aneros, which you know, right?

Which is a prostatic stimulator. And because the reality is that anal access gives you access for the men, the prostate, and the pelvic floor, and the vagal nerve. So you're doing all of those things in one. For the woman, it's pelvic floor, increased pressure on the G-spot, and vagal nerve. So you're doing all of those things in one. For the woman, it's pelvic floor, increased pressure on the G-spot and vagal nerve, right? So you're just like, okay, so all those things are online. You then edge to the point of near orgasm, right? Then the lying down partner, in this case, we're describing the woman, will begin a 52.1 protocol, which is 50 hyperventilations. So what

you're doing is looking to hyperventilate and blow off CO2 because you're now going to do a Wim Hof style breath hold practice, right? So now you're engaging in that. So 50 hyperventilations, like you're blowing out birthday candles, right? You should get tingly, right? You're blowing off your CO2, which will increase the amount of time you can hold your breath. Then if you have access, whether this is like boost canisters or whatever, you know, like pure sports oxygen, if you have medical grade, back to your courageous connected doctor, if you have medical grade oxygen, you can be doing medical grade oxygen. And you take a couple of breath holds of pure oxygen, which will super oxygenate your red blood cells. So now I've got max oxat and depleted CO2. so i should be able to hold my breath

for a really fucking long time at that point and again this is not medical advice if this is not ethically give me the juicy stuff i don't give a shit about the disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer if for any reason this is ethically legally morally culturally socially professionally not kosher for you where you are where you live just don't do that part that said you then so by the way you pick a ripper of a song you've started your breath work at the beginning of that song you've done your 50 breaths you've done your two oxygen saturations you then take an inhalation of pure nitrous oxide. Okay.

And you then hold it. You take it in as if it's your first breath on this earth, the breath of a newborn. And you hold it for as long as you possibly can until you exhale it as your dying breath. Okay. Now in that space, A, the fucking drop is about to happen in the music. B, you can pop the nipple clamps because then suddenly all the blood rushes back at once and you're now in a state of peak arousal and you've hotwired pleasure pain. So now all additional sensation, whether it is initially pleasurable or painful, all gets

registered as pleasure. And whatever you were doing as far as stimulation, level it up one notch. So if it was fingers, it can be cocks. If it was toys, it could be this. Whatever it would be, just bump it up to the next level. And your partner is basically going to be slingshotted into a space of zero G weightlessness in the information layer where they can think anything they want about anything they can think of with a 300 IQ for 3 to 10 minutes.

And many people experience this equated to a 5 MEO level experience. Wow. Yeah. With household materials. So this is where, instead of the anarchist cookbook, like how to build bombs with kitchen sink materials, this is the alchemist's cookbook, right? This is how do we scale radical self-initiation, right? spot fucking on and perfect for where you are in your life and what you need to hear or know. And so that becomes, now if you want to, that's the base level practice. So that's just the simplest program. Now you can add to that. So as you get comfortable, you can, again, back to, you know, if you want to add periodically, like once a month, once a quarter, once a year, some version of substance enhanced.

I mean, this was all mildly substance enhanced, but if you want to add to that, you can add oxytocin ketamine nasal spray, right? That will increase pair bonding. That will also increase a pleasantly dissociative space. And in fact, I suppose we can just talk about like, we want to get super technical, but very instructionally technical. Sure. a second. Okay. So basically now you've got the basics and then you can add any form of different breathwork, different compounds, different tools and toys, and then they can create different initiatory experiences. So if you think about, let's just take something like nitric oxide. So nitric oxide is the neurotransmitter that crosses the blood brain barrier. Herb Benson at Harvard University wrote a great book called The Breakout Principle. He called it the bliss molecule, right? It's basically what flushes out stress and what brings in all the kind of more transformative state experiences. It is also a vasodilator,

right? It shows up in everything from, you know, so basically you're like, okay, nitric oxide is interesting, both as a shifter of consciousness, a transporter molecule, as well as a vasodilator, which obviously is nice for sexuality. So you're like, the mild, medium, spicy columns is mild. If you're interested in boosting nitric oxide, eat, you know, eat your beets and your arugula. So dietary enhancement. Medium would be take things like specifically concentrated nitric oxide supplements like Neo40, which is actually based here in Austin as well, right? Okay. So you can supplement, and they even have test strips.

So you can test your resting saliva nitric oxide levels, and most of us are lower than we'd want. And you can just have that raise your baseline prior to sexuality. It'll increase engorgement, it'll increase sensitivity, and it will increase, again, shift, you know, it will facilitate state shifts in consciousness. And then maximum, viagrancialis, right? And so, most Taoist sexual practice, the alchemical Taoism, you know, there's a reason why bears' livers and rhino horns and all those things are so fetishized in Asia and China in particular is because, you know, if you go back to it, most of it is always sex magicians were like, how do I maintain and keep an erection as long as possible so that I can then facilitate

the other alchemical stuff? So this is different than being a horn dog with a boner, right? This is actually saying, hey, I'm actually going to, and this works for women as well, at lower dosages. You can actually increase vasodilation and engorgement for both parties. Because, I mean, if you think about most men, how much of our bandwidth during sex is dedicated to getting and keeping an erection? Our movement patterns, where our minds are, how we fuck, all of it is just fundamentally down at that base level. And so many women are like, hey, honey, look at me, slow down. Like, what do you want? I want to hug you. You're like, ah, no, can't. I'm a little fuck rabbit because I have to. And if my dick went limp,

that would be fucking mortifying. So the idea there is to say, okay, what if A, I can just boost nitric oxide for all the reasons we discussed, and I can take that whole bandwidth offline and I can now go slowly. We can now engage in positions and arrangements that I would normally not be able or willing to do if it was just pure friction-based play,

right? And now I can focus on breath. Now I can focus on eye contact. Now we can focus on the subtle energetics or information that is disclosed in these experiences, right? So that's one band. Endorphins, we've already spoken about. Any form of pleasure pain close to climax. So you can start with, people in the BDSM community use, fascinatingly, they call it sensation play, right? But it's like little pinwheel rollers and obviously obvious things like cat and nine tails and flogging and paddling and all this kind of stuff. But I mean, some of it is literally identical equipment to what they use for children with sensory integration disorders and that kind of stuff. You're literally rolling like a pizza pinwheel up and down your arms, feathers, like any and all of those things which increase sensitivity and awareness, right? All the way up to straight up things that would be normally painful, right? So, you have that whole spectrum. The oxytocin, mild, would be kissing, sucking, cuddling, eye gazing, right? Middling could be like the nipple clamps or nipple suctions and then maximum could be the straight up nasal spray so you realize oh there's this there's a spectrum of how what we can play with what are the mechanisms of action and how do we combine them based on our interest our intensity

our value systems our availability whatever but you realize oh it's it's neat if you include these things well testosterone same thing for men and women, right? But a lot of, I mean, everybody thinks of testosterone for guys, but obviously testosterone is a huge part of women's sexual arousal as well. You can do the lifestyle stuff, you know, hot and cold contrast therapies, explosive weightlifting, plyometrics, et cetera, like stuff that everybody kind of knows. That's good, but generally only responsible for about a plus or minus 10% variation and what you can get out of it. You could also do topical gel, right? So, I think Dave Ashbery mentioned this about his wife at one point, but the idea of like topical gel on a woman's clitoris and labia, right, can create meaningful engorgement. Now, obviously you're playing with hormones, back to the 3C doctor,

physician oversight, don't do stupid shit, all that, and periodically for specific reasons. And particularly for, you know, actually even I'll back that off. I'll say DHEA as a supplement is probably our medium one. DHEA is a precursor to both estrogen and testosterone. Many studies have shown that particularly in women over 40, it can have a positive uptick as they metabolize it into testosterone. Now for guys, it's not quite that simple and you might end up metabolizing into estrogen and it depends on what else you've got going on in your system. But that idea of like a dietary precursor supplement, it will increase your bioavailability when you'd like to do it. And then let's say the spicy one would be actual

testosterone gels, injections, intramuscular, whatever it would be. And playing with that in appropriate ratios and proportions. Women typically have a tenth the amount of testosterone, but it is very powerful at those levels. So guys, don't over-prescribe, etc. There's obviously all sorts of pros and cons on sustained hormonal supplementation versus natural. But if you're literally engaging in those kind of levels of chem sex, then on the visionary level, on the visionary substances, you know, the base level would be the kind of CBDTHC, right, to be activating your endocannabinoid system is equally unknown and equally potent and is arguably our secondary immune system. And it's the only system in our whole body that actually signals backwards and forwards from organs to brain and the other way. And it's responsible for dozens of biological, basically wellness in our system. So you're activating that that if you want to go to the middle level you could consider um ghb right which is a highly sensory um sexuality boosting compound that was available

in the market and is subsequently not so much and at the right dose it's really fucking safe it's at the higher dose where you run into real issues. But it is something that is, I mean, Rob Wolf fucking talked about it as like one of the greatest compounds ever made. It was a bodybuilder drug for many years. Yeah. You know, increases growth hormone when you sleep, increases deep sleep. Yeah. Like it's fantastic stuff. Yeah, exactly.

And then obviously, you know, has also been vilified as the date rape drug because when people G out or take too much, they can end up in a passive non-responsive state that could be you know massively exploited right so back to safe high trust environments etc and then on the high end you can explore you know ann and sasha shulgin right were a long-time couple that explored all of their lovemaking um via psychedelically enhanced experiences um and they experienced um in particular i mean obviously mdma is well known um i think it's actually overhyped as an erotic drug it's typically a sensory and emotionally connected drug i have a hard time on a breakthrough dose of mdma even getting hard oh yeah because they're all serotonergic and serotonin literally means soft tone.

There you go. So yes, which also brings us back to the ED supplements. Now, there's a huge caution as far as blood pressure, dropping blood pressure and those stimulants. So anytime you deal with vasodilation and rampy amphetamine-based compounds or anything else,

caveat m tours that shit's on you you know and there's a number and you're peter sellers back in the day i think peter sellers died like you know doing uh amyl nitrates and some form it back in the 70s you know you know banging one of his one of his wives or girlfriends i don't remember which so like that is you're into the red zone and know what you're doing is the simplest one but uh mda sassafras is renowned to be more erotically functional than mdma we had i've only experienced that once i got it uh when i was living in the bay area and my wife and i went to a two-hour couple's Thai massage and it was fucking psychedelic it was so special special. I mean, like I felt shit unlock,

you know, through that physical connection, but I was, I mean, I had a dude and even though I, I consider myself, um, on the spectrum of sexuality, uh, it was, it was fucking erotic. Like it was crazy to me. It was like, wow. Like, I was turned on, no doubt about it. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and that also, I mean, that highlights another question is what is life force? What is the energy we experience that we cultivate sexually?

But then there's also what is love? And for most of us, we do the same way we get pleasure-pain wires crossed, and you can use that to your advantage. There's also the question of, are we crossing the wires of eros, like erotic sexualized energy, and agape, you know,

a sort of brotherly Christ consciousness love. And oftentimes when we experience agape or any form of communal love or something that's just kind of pure, yeah, just that, the only somatic marker we have for it is sexual arousal. So, it's why like folks in evangelical churches or Tony Robbins events or you name it, anything that's profound and inspirational and cathartic often end up pairing up and banging versus being able to hold it and being like, oh, no, no, my familiar reference points are sexual, but this is actually distinct and a different thing. So, yeah, just to finish the Ann and Sasha Shulgin one, their

all-time favorite was 2C-B. They said it was their primary erotic psychedelic. And you can do the same, you know, they also made a mention of like Museum Dose or IMAX Dose, right? You don't want to be, you know, floor warbling, walls melting, dissociated psychedelic states. But if you're into threshold enhanced experiences combined with these psychosexual practices, combined with the peak states that you're cultivating, right, by slingshotting each other, then you can get to some very interesting realms and domains. And that's where you can kind of get into some of the archetypal stuff and the trauma release. So one of the interesting things you can do in this space, I mean, A, short half-life compounds are generally an easier fit, right? If you sign up for six to 10 hours, that's a high-bandwidth, high-commitment kind of play.

But for instance, cannabis can wear off in 90 to 120 minutes. The nitrous oxide oxygen breathwork is literally 15 to 30 minutes. And by the way, MIT, their department of anesthesiology, did a fascinating study on the impact of nitrous oxide. And what they found was that it was putting people for three to 12 minutes afterwards into a double amplitude waking delta state. Oh, wow. Which is very rare and only shows up in certain super esoteric like Tibetan Dzogchen meditation, meditative practices. Like it's not in Vipassana. It's not in TM. It doesn't show up in anything that most folks are aware of and do.

It's high tech contemplative states with a lot of practice. And double amplitude waking delta is basically, it's like backdoor lucid dreaming. You end up in a complete high ideation, information saturated space where everything is reach out and grab it accessible and useful. So just to go back, so now we're playing these games uh the half-life game is important because you know the same with the oxytocin ketamine right that can leave you lift you up give you a profound state shifting experience where you can explore all kinds of things make all kinds of sense come back down together and you're sort of you know you're back down cooking dinner and in an hour completely functional so what you're saying is if you combine

these things if you combine these things, if you combine all these evolutionary drivers, we talked about that kind of judo move, right? Of like hacking the inputs and you say, we're going to combine respiration, embodiment, music, substances, sexuality. What you're going for is instead of a long wavelength experience, you know, the 12 hours and shoot the moon, And maybe you spend like 60 to 90 minutes in really generative space, but you spend the ramp up and the come down just trying to navigate what's in your system and have a nice time as you manage body fatigue. Instead, you can compress the wavelength into 30 minutes, 90 minutes, two hours, and then go for amplitude. How high up into the

information are we getting? And then how am I not fumbling the fucking football in the end zone when I come back? Because that remembering, the anamnesis experience of like, oh shit, yes, everything is self-evident and I remember all of this. I've been here before. This is fucking my true nature, self, access to source, whatever you are experiencing experiencing then it slips through your fingers gets away on the way back down right and so not fumbling the football is the other key part so rules and regs we would say never more than two of those breathwork cycles in a week and stop when you're not remembering what you saw and like live by that because otherwise you'll get snookered because you basically i mean as i said you know what we're talking about here is is hot wiring the entire

human arousal and reward system and it works like it's the craziest thing we just did this as like curious homework we're like huh gee i wonder like what we did was just pay attention to the research in all of these domains and then start putting them in like a bingo card. And we're like, hey, that research goes here. This goes there. This goes here. What happens if you put them all together? I don't know.

Let's try. Maybe it'll work. And it works better than you can possibly fucking imagine. To the point where you're like, how is this not on the cover of Time Magazine? Like, how is this not being like trumpeted from the rooftops? So, in that, the goal is to get, you know, back to hat tip to Crowley, the crazy uncle. He had a great phrase.

He called it erotocomatose lucidity. Right? Which eroto, the sexual, comatose, you're spaced the fuck out. Lucidity, you're still actually clear as a bell. So, how do you get to that state wherein your waking consciousness is offline you are fully engaged and satiated with sexual arousal orgasmic energy and yet you're able to make clean sense of what's going on. And that state is a profoundly generative one. Well, fuck, I'm beyond interested.

Yeah. Well, I mean, and so there's, I mean, I'll just lay out, because I've never done this before publicly, but I'll just say the rest of the steps. So the rest of the steps are now you can engage in protocols. And the specific protocols, the sex toys you would want, Good Vibrations is a great store. It's a women-owned cooperative based in San Francisco.

So they're sex positive and super grounded, helpful, good people. We're actually trying to put together some shopping carts, like a mild, medium, spicy shopping cart, so that people don't have to be like, what the hell do I do now? So that's coming and I'll send you the links when we have them. But basically there's a couple of things that you can do. Because I mean, if you think about wild open-ended sexuality, even pornography, you think low-level San Fernando Valley porn, right? It's really debased. There's very little

noble or sacred masculine. There's a lot of diminishment of the feminine. It's often just tragic and painful to watch. But in there, you actually understand it, you're like, oh, that is vagal nerve stimulation. The whole gagging and all that kind of stuff. Vagal nerve stimulation with stimulation from behind, et cetera. Double penetration, same thing, right? All of these things are actually potentially tantric initiatory practices for, I'm imagining, for a woman these days. That's incredibly high risk to say, A, to even admit, you know, fear, slut shaming, social norming, all that kind of stuff. A, do we even admit I might be curious? And B, what's the likelihood of me being able to arrange a social situation where this is safe and okay? Safe that my current partner and a other known male can hold me, can lead me through that experience without collapsing into their own insecurity or their own projections, that it won't destabilize the relationship, a thousand projections, that it won't destabilize the relationship, a thousand things, that I won't be taken advantage of, any number of risks.

So, most women just opt to just firewall that off without realizing, hey, this is my body, this is my pleasure, this is my heart and my mind. And these tools in the realm of sexual fitness or sexual yoga can become profoundly powerful in healing and unlocking. So the idea of, again, what can you do with sex toys that can simulate, with one loving partner, can simulate what would normally be a much higher risk multi-person engagement, right? Is a profound way to say, hey, we all deserve the full spectrum of sensation and feeling and experience. We may not opt to do this in 3D with others. Yeah.

Right? That can be a profoundly beautiful way for people who are opting on the side of two of us walking this road together to still open and expand the magical, mystical, initiatory experiences. And so if you combine all these things with some of those tools, and there's even, I think it's Vixkin, I think they might even be here in Austin, but they have sheets. So basically a guy can have effectively a very lifelike quality dildo that they can wear themselves which expands their size and it's like snugs up under your nuts it's actually highly functional so it's almost like the rubber arm experiments right where you right you can rub the rubber arm but if you but you're feeling you're being touched and you like it creates the illusion right of that's my arm.

Especially when you add state-shifting practices and activities, you can offer your partner the experience of another different lover, but it's actually you, which is mind-bendingly interesting. There are harnesses where you can have a dildo and your cock so you can engage in double penetration with a partner but it's just you and yet you are looking down and seeing the other cock not yours right so it's above yours yeah okay mind bending like like psychosomatically completely transformative right you can mount a dildo on the wall and have your partner engage with a mirror, and you're looking, and you're like, oh, subject, object, like here we all are playing these games. And you can open your partner into the wanton woman, which is arguably her deeply open temple priestess. So now you're unlocking unapologetic pleasure. And now you can actually

go back. So now back to trauma healing. If you can initiate your partner and each other, but initiate your partner into that, the wanton woman, right? Then she can realize, oh, this is my timeless turn on outside of time and space, right? Now we're into Kairos and Kronos where we're somewhere in the deep now. And this is my full expression. Now, the oak tree was always present in the acorn. So now she can go back into her earlier sexual history. She can go back into her adolescence high school college early 20s any places where she might have not been fully seen inferior men and boys may have attempted to take from her sacred offering and she can go back and she can relive oh well if i am this forever and always i was her

then too and she can then back to the md MDMA PTSD therapy, she can rewrite those memories, even rework those scripts with you as her lover holding her in that space and completely rework time, space, and history. Wow. Right? To the point where we get to make each other whole outside of time via these loving practices held in the light right so and this is the thing like if a man so a man all men want right i want the i want the you know angel in the kitchen and the whore in the bedroom the sort of classic whore madonna and and they're like oh yeah nice you got to pick one it's like no no no you can absolutely love and respect and hold and cherish your woman to the point where she can open to her full expression, which includes all of those things.

And the cost, my boy, right, is you have to be willing to tolerate a limp dick. And as David Data said, you got to be able to take it up the ass to know God. And you have to be an impeccable fucking integrity. You cannot devolve into sex man. Like, I'm just going to turn you over and jackhammer you and call you a dirty bitch. Like, no. You have to clarify your fucking system completely so that you are worthy of her trust. And if we can do those things, then the world opens for all of us. And we can take that love

and take that healing back into our work in the world, back into our children, back into our creativity, and become whole humans. Fuck yeah, brother. That's absolutely beautiful. And you're putting all this into a new book that you're writing. Yeah. Yeah. It's called Recapture the Rapture. Rethinking God, Sex, and Death for a World That's Lost Its Mind. That's a hell of a title. Well, I mean, that's my sense. My sense is the psychedelic revolution is going to run onto the rocks in a hell of a title. Well, I mean, that's my sense. My sense is the psychedelic

revolution is going to run onto the rocks in a bunch of different ways as it sort of almost has to. And that notion of the alchemist cookbook, like how do we create open source scalable? What's the psycho-spiritual equivalent of blockchain? Like how do we get information so that people can initiate each other into healing, wholeness, and awakening radically. Right? And do it in a way that scales and that allows as many people as possible to wake up into soul force. Because, I mean, basically all ecstatic practices, meditation, psychedelics, sexuality, are all death practices. Right?

There's the ego death in psychedelics and meditation. There's the little death, la petite mort, is what the French call that lucidity after orgasm. They're all death practices, right? And so if we can use these conscious death practices to be reborn, we become twice-born humans. We become Anthropos, right? And in fact, the final stage, everybody talks about the hero's journey

in Joseph Campbell, right? Which is, you know, home away everybody talks about the hero's journey and joseph campbell right um which is you know home away home the hero goes away but like the notions there's there's several and i know we're going long so we might want to just split this fucker but but um there's later stages of the hero's journey that most people don't know which is the woman is temptress reconciliation with the father and the sacred hermaphrodite right and so woman is temptress is yeah can i as man, can I control my sexual impulses? Can I not just be a skirt-chasing fucking douchebag? And can I actually hold and integrate that power? And specifically, can I be wary of premature extaculation?

Which is the moment I get into some high-energy stuff, do I just nut all over the place? Do I either think I'm the second coming, or I go, you know, or I do stupid shit, right? Or I go on a manic binge overload. Like, can I master my impulses both for desire and just sucking at the tit, right, of comfort and the feminine? So once I've done that, I can come online. The reconciliation with the father is the classic Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader thing, right? But it's also back to ethics versus morals.

So if we've given up on conventional monogamy, right, and we're exploring open-ended, tantric, left-hand path sexuality, reconciliation with the father means instead of being the man that I'm trying to dodge or duck or rebel against, can I realize I am my own authority? So it's going from morals, someone's telling me what to do, to ethics. It's my relationship to my actions. The true warrior's path, right? If I don't't internalize that i'm fucking danger to myself and others and all those 20 something hoodie bros puffing dmt at edm shows terrifying to me yeah there is nothing that they have bowed down to that is higher than their own desires or impulses right so you get those two

online and the final one is the sacred hermaphrodite and this is where the final the sex toy there's one called share which is basically this it's a two-way dildo with a egg shake like a jelly bean that goes up into the woman and she can wear it particularly if she has a plug-in she it can just sit in there so there's no straps no harnesses, no goofy aesthetics. It's very clean. And then a cock. And you can actually, she can then fuck her man while stroking him. And what this does is it completely changes where the sensations are for both of your bodies. So if you think about it, a woman's turn on is predominantly gathered around her whole clitoris, potentially her G-spot, right? So she's used to moving her pelvis and spinal cord that way.

Now the sensation is at the end of a six-inch cock that she's now connected to, right? And it's pressing against her clitoris. The guy is now experiencing his prostate. So suddenly your neuromotor patterns have completely reversed as well as the aesthetics. The guy is on his back, his legs are spread, the woman is together and thrusting. And you're like, whoa, what the fuck? Like this is literally not just aesthetically different and certainly not even just conceptually kinky. You are literally rewiring your turn on and your movement patterns to be in completely reversed roles and then as

you meet you meet in the hermaphrodite the man woman and you've blended and explored right the swapping of energies and so that's the final move in the hero's journey before they come home with the gift and so that's hermes the thr thrice great in the Greek mystic tradition. It's all those things, which is, and in fact, Amanda Sage, if you know that, a visionary artist, she's at Burning Man and she's created a beautiful painting of Vitruvian human, right? So it's the same sacred geometries as Leonardo's, but it actually has Burning Man painted as the bottom of this. And I think that the notion of Vitruvian human or Anthropos that blends head and heart, that blends masculine feminine, right?

That blends all of these things together in balance is what this sexual yoga of becoming can offer us. If we stick with it, if we don't flinch as we get to our woundings and our traumas, if we don't get hijacked by either the bliss fuck pot or the crucifixion pot. Because what it does is it lends us to both. You can create orgasms that can back up your nervous system.

You literally have like a queue of contractions to get through. You're like, holy shit, I didn't realize you can just program this. You can. That's the bliss, the bliss fuck even. And the sort of the where you go into the information. You can sort of playfully call it like the cosmic fuck tunnel. You can like literally just launch each other down that road. But the connection in our bodies and in our lives and in our pain is the crucifixion. It's the, here's Kairos, sacred time, here's Kronos, clock time, and to be aware and awake at that intersection, in these bodies,

in this lifetime, as it fucking is, with both the incredible heart-opening potential and the utterly gutting grief and agony of it all, delivers us to Christ consciousness, delivers us to that omega point of what Tila de Chardin called, you know, literally, he said, you know, the second coming isn't going to be an individual, as pretty much everybody says these days. He said it's going to actually, the body of Christ is the omega point at the end of time, which is all of us waking up together. And this is potentially a really, really fun way to get there definitely definitely is something i'm going to explore for sure in many different ways and i can't wait for your book to come out

do you have a proposed date by chance yeah it'll be spring catalog uh 21 okay coming out next early next winter so it's like february march phenomenal brother dude it's been fucking absolutely beautiful having you on the show and so much amazing stuff to share that i want to put it into practice right now i got ketamine oxytocin in the fridge it's going down beautiful brother thank you so much jamie where can people find you online um flowgenomeproject.com is an easy place or on facebook uh we have a page there as well. And we do live events, trainings, do backcountry courses. We haven't figured out how to teach this stuff yet because we're just not interested in going down that couples road. But it'll be there in the book

and we'll figure out some way to get information out to sincere couples. Incredible, brother. Thank you again. Thank you guys for tuning in to today's show with my dude, Jamie Wheel. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I mean, it absolutely blew me away. This is one I listened to again a second time and will probably revisit

as his book is getting ready to launch. And I will have him back on without question because he is one of a handful of people that I know that is consistently refining himself, consistently looking to improve in all areas of his life. And he's an absolute wizard. I don't know that he'd call himself that, but when you think of the magician archetype or the wizard archetype, constantly refining, constantly tinkering, constantly working towards creating um magic in this world this is the dude for that jamie wheel is that dude and uh i highly highly respect him i love

him as a brother and i have learned so much from him hopefully you guys have done that as well i would refer you to comment to me uh with any questions on instagram at living with the kingsburys but at the same time uh we are going to be on a lack of sleep here for the next month, probably. And I will be on Instagram far less. So hopefully if you do comment to me there in the DMS, I will be able to get back to you at some point, but don't look for any quick answers.

I love y'all be well, and I'll see you in a week. you