Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #173 Tim Corcoran

Starting point is 00:00:00 Thank you guys for tuning in to today's show with my friend and somebody that I will be having on many more times, Tim Corcoran. He's been on the show once before. Phenomenal guy. Many of you are in a state right now left wondering, what the hell do I do now? If you just listened to my last podcast with Mickey Willis. So I have some recommendations. Number one, I did record this prior to Mickey and it is going up immediately after Mickey on purpose. And the reason for that is one of the core wounds of mankind is the feeling of separation. And this feeling of separation from our source, from nature, as we dive into the podcast, it is the root of many of the issues we have in society today. So reconnecting to that, reestablishing that is one of the most critical things we can do as we

Starting point is 00:01:01 imagine the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible to quote a book by Charles Eisenstein. As much as I've recommended that book in the past, I think there is one book that people should read right now. It is by far one of the most important books that I've ever read. And it is by Dr. David E. Martin. And it's called Lizards Eat Butterflies. I will link to it in the show notes. He does the audible narration. So you get his influx, you get his timing. It'll make you laugh. It will piss you off.

Starting point is 00:01:32 It is designed to unpack all of the ways we are programmed, including that core wound that I'm speaking to right now. And I mean, I've never, I've listened to a lot of books. I've read a lot of books. I've never restarted a book the second I finished it until now with Lizards Eat Butterflies. And because I listened to it on Audible, I'm going to order the paperback and start reading it. So I will have a third run of this book. That's how much this book has impacted me. Lizards Eat Butterflies. We'll link to that in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:02:08 Tim's a phenomenal dude. I'm not going to get too much into him. He's been on the show before. To be perfectly honest, I didn't quite recognize the depth of Tim's wisdom until he was out in Tahoe with me for Fit for Service. And we spent a lot of time together out on the land and at the Airbnb and just getting to know each other and trading war stories. I was like, this guy has to come back on the podcast and he is absolutely incredible and really important. A lot of what we're doing now is reconnecting to our roots.

Starting point is 00:02:38 It's, it's decentralizing and moving back to a world that lives with the modern benefits of modern science and also reconnects to the ancient roots of our elders and the wisdom keepers of the past. And Tim does a phenomenal job of really explaining what that is. I can talk about it all day long in the intro, but there's no real need. You guys are going to get so much from this. We dive into a practice called the soul wander that he led everyone through at fit for service. And if you take the time, you take some

Starting point is 00:03:11 notes and you actually go and do this, you're going to find a lot of medicine out in nature, a lot of guidance on what do I do now? What do I do next? Where am I at? What is my purpose here? Lots of, lots of critical issues. And then Tim is just a phenomenal guy and he's available for people. So if you really love this podcast and you want to learn more, hit him up. You know, he will have links to his website

Starting point is 00:03:37 and all the places you can find him in the show notes as well as at the end of this podcast. So stay tuned for that. There's a number of ways you can support this podcast, but, us a five-star rating, of course, that helps other people see the show. And then one or two ways that the show has helped you out in life. I think that's really important. So people know that they're getting something from this or that you're getting something from this as a listener. In addition to that, check out our sponsors. They really make this show possible and keep us afloat. And we have some great sponsors.

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Starting point is 00:11:39 Maybe two years. Yeah, it was a while back. I first got connected to you through Ben Greenfield. And, of course, he connected you to me as well as Aubrey. And Aubrey has stayed in touch with you and had us had you out to one of our events that we just finished up for Fit for Service out in Tahoe. And you were working with the coaches on a number of things, one of which was called the soul wander. And it's, you know, at these events, we're each doing different talks or, you know, the best ones, as you know, are experiential. There are ways that you don't just sit and listen, you actually get to experience the medicine of what's being talked about. And the thing that I loved about the soul, one of the many things I loved about the soul wander is the fact that, you know, your opening for that was really pure medicine. And I thought, damn, I should be recording this

Starting point is 00:12:30 right now. We need to get this on a podcast. And so here we are today to really discuss that. But in case people missed the first episode, I guess talk a bit about your background, you know, what drew you to indigenous wisdom, the wisdom of the first people of this land, and really starting to reconnect to nature and to your point, the word nature itself. I would love for you to unpack all that. Oh, yeah, yeah. We'll dive into that. No, yeah, man. And listen, it's a great honor for me to be here. Always appreciate spending time with you, Kyle, and really appreciate being on the podcast here.

Starting point is 00:13:07 So my background is as a wilderness guide. My wife and I founded a wilderness school where we live in Idaho, Sandpoint, Idaho. Gosh, that was 15 years ago in 2005 with an explicit mission to help people connect deeply to the natural world. And that was based off of years of really a deep passion. And I would say a spiritual calling to not just connect with nature, but to connect with the people who I saw were the most connected to nature, which of course are the indigenous tribes of our world. And so much of my adult life, I've had the blessing of connecting with indigenous wisdom. I've been really blessed to work with a handful of elders and traditional indigenous teachers. And so a big part of my mission has been about, okay, how can I help be a bridge to bring all of that? There's so much, there's so much knowledge and wisdom that really is medicine for our modern

Starting point is 00:14:09 world. That is largely inaccessible to modern people. So how can I act as that bridge? And that's been a huge part of my calling. And so my wilderness school was one vehicle for expressing that calling. And then it was interesting, Kyle, because what I found was the more I connected people with nature, right, the more they made that deep journey,

Starting point is 00:14:30 not just hiking, but I'm talking, you know, all the old skills, so wilderness survival and medicinal edible plants, wildlife tracking, all of this stuff, language of the birds, nature awareness. People came more and more in tune with their deep self with their role in the greater ecology of life and more aligned with their own purpose and more on fire with their passion and their gifts and their medicine and i saw that pattern play out time and time again and it got to the point where i I don't know, maybe five years ago or so, my calling was evolving. And I saw that it was time for me to claim more forthrightly that my role here is to help people really connect deeply with their vision, with their purpose, with their soul, using nature as a co-conspirator, as the case may be.

Starting point is 00:15:24 So, yeah, and that's what I do these days. We still run the Wilderness School and I run a new organization, Purpose Mountain, that's a little newer, about four or five years old, where all of this work and the soul wonder all comes from. Yeah. It's incredible. I'm sure we'll dive into some of the deeper practices.

Starting point is 00:15:41 One of the things that I've been drawn to, and I know I spoke at you at length, is this traditional vision quest. you know, you look all over the world, it's been talked about from people like Graham Hancock, and many, many others, that every indigenous culture had some means of an altered state of consciousness. And whether that was through a plant medicine, or, you know, literally dancing up, sun up to sundown over and over again without food until they broke into that heightened state of awareness. Or with a lot of the elders and communities that were the first people of this land going without food and water for four days. And just what takes place when something like that happens and how powerful that medicine can be through all the interactions with nature, all the interactions with source, whatever you want to

Starting point is 00:16:31 call that, whatever fabric I'm made of is the fabric of all. And being able to tap into that on a very visceral and experiential level, talk a little bit about that. And then we'll, we'll, we'll take the, you know, the, the foundings of the soul wanderer as as a bridge for that gap because i think for a lot of people that i mean i've talked to nurses and they're like you okay i get food but no water for four days i'm like you got yeah it's it's uh it's a weird thing to think about but yeah yeah absolutely well no so the vision quest is as old as dirt a lot of people associate it with the Native American cultures, Kyle, but the reality is that worldwide cultures across the entire globe have enacted that practice. Whether it was

Starting point is 00:17:14 the Buddha finding enlightenment, where did he do it? Under a tree, right? It wasn't on a meditation cushion. It was under a tree. Jesus's 40 days, Muhammad in the cave, Moses on the mountaintop. There's all kinds of examples worldwide. Certainly the Native American people, people know about black elk and crazy horse and all of these names. adult life, I was early 20s, when the concept of vision first came forth to me, right? And this was, I don't know, 20, 25 years ago, so dating myself a little bit here, but it wasn't as much, there wasn't as much awareness of it in the mainstream consciousness. So, for me, it was a radical notion that my life has meaning, uniquely, that it's not random, that there is a very specific reason why I'm here, a specific role I'm here to fill, and that the great adventure of life is to seek what that is. That's vision, that's purpose, right? And that that's a never-ending process, discovering what our vision is, what our purpose is, of both a never-ending process of discovery as well as a

Starting point is 00:18:25 never-ending process of fulfillment. That is the great adventure of life. And so once I found out like, oh my God, that's possible. And like a young 22-year-old, I was stoked and I was like, okay, I'll do whatever it takes. I went to a mentor way back when, and this is kind of a funny story. I went to him right off the bat, just young and green and eager. And I was like, okay, I want my vision quest. You know, what do I have to do? And first thing he tells me to do, he says, okay, Tim, well, I want you to go find a spot in nature that you can adopt, like a sit spot, and just go there 20, 30 minutes a day.

Starting point is 00:19:01 Have a little sit spot. Go there every day for a year, then come back and talk to me. Well, I'll tell you what, man, that's all I needed to hear. Now, most people would get a challenge like that and be like, you'd never hear back from him. I was like, okay, bring it on. So that's what I did, right? Every day for a year. And I'll tell you what, man, I learned so much. And that was such a transformational experience, just connecting with nature on that basic level, 20 minutes a day, all times a day, all times a year, in the dark, in the light, at night, during the day, when it was raining, when it was sunny, cold, warm, the whole thing. Of course, deepening my own connection to the natural world at the time. And then after that, I went back to him and sure

Starting point is 00:19:40 enough, enacted my first vision quest. And so the vision quest simply stated is a time when we can, a ceremony. Well, who was it? It was Mark Twain that said, the two most important days of your life are the day you were born and the day you find out why. Right? And I'm a big believer in that. And that's the power of the quest. Why am I here?

Starting point is 00:20:00 What is the meaning of my life? What are my unique gifts? It's going out there for those four days, traditionally four days, with that single intention and letting go of all the distractions. Traditionally, it would have been in a small circle, maybe 10-foot diameter circle that you are bound to. Some vision quests do go, they all go without food. Some go without water, some go with water. I've done both. But it's that singular intention, putting forth that passionate question, why am I here? And then importantly, listening, right? Making space for soul, the mystery creator, great spirit,

Starting point is 00:20:45 God, whatever we want to call that to speak to us through nature, through our dreams, through signs and symbols and images and synchronicity and taking that journey. And it's an old, old journey that works. That's what I love about the quest is that it works. You know, still 2020, all these years later, thousands of years, this ceremony has been practiced, maybe tens of thousands of years, and it still works in the modern experience. So, yeah, I could go on and on. And that's that's a short overview. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:14 Yeah. Beautiful. I think the thing that's been drawing me to that is the thing that draws me back to some of these grounding cord plants that come from the earth you know and i've experienced uh really quite quite a few different um you know psychedelics just to strip playing i've experienced a lot of high dose acid different things like that ketamine uh mdma all beautiful experiences but not not actual earth medicine you know and and even with the earth medicine like psilocybin or ayahuasca and wachuma, I feel a deep connection to the earth. I've had conversations with the earth and this might get fucking out there, you know, but I mean, I feel that connection. It's still not the same as having interactions with the earth in real time, whether that's through dreams or, you know, a hummingbird coming to speak to you or a bear or any of the medicines that, you know, a little honeybee as we might dive into on my soul wander that really, you know, layered in some

Starting point is 00:22:09 deep wisdom to me. And it can come from anything. But I think that is the draw for me is this connection point back to something that's been missing anywhere we look from, you know, the paleo diet to fasting to any hot and cold therapy. Like what is missing from the modern world? Well, if I'm at 72 degrees all day long and I'm in a box all day long, odds are there's a couple of things that I can shift with that very quickly by exposing myself to different

Starting point is 00:22:32 temperatures and getting outside more. And so there has been a draw for me for that. And as you said, there aren't, you know, even if you had an elder or somebody to work with, and I'm very fortunate. I have Dr. Will Tagle, who's about an hour away from me, he wrote the book Walking with Bears, phenomenal place for people to start if they want to dive into this in a bridging of, you know, modern science, you know, he has a PhD in physics, as well as psychology to having worked with elders his whole life. And now he is an 80 year old elder in every sense of the word. But really, you know, getting to that space, it does take effort.

Starting point is 00:23:08 It does. You know, it's not something you just walk into off the streets and say, you say, hey, I've had 30 ayahuasca sessions. I'm ready for my vision quest. It's like, no, you, you have to actually prep for that. There are prerequisites that are necessary. And I think that's one of the beautiful things that you've done with the soul wander is you've created a bridge to bridge that gap where we can experience many of the same messages, many of the same

Starting point is 00:23:28 synchronicities and downloads and deeper connections through, um, sacrifice through the opening, through the offering and all of these things that I want you to unpack here. And so I just want to say huge thank you to you because a lot of what I was talking about in my lectures at Fit for Service had to do with this. And you're right there to give them the actual thing. It's like, I have to tell you about an avocado all day long. You don't know what it is until you eat it. That's right. Good buddy Ted Decker talks about that. And you were giving people the avocado I was describing

Starting point is 00:23:58 to them. So huge thank you for that. And I would love for you to unpack, you know, where does the soul water come from? And what is it exactly that goes into it? Because there's so much here. I mean, we're only 12 minutes into this thing. I could just drop my mic right now and let you run for the rest of the podcast. Well, thanks, man. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:16 And you're welcome. I love, love sharing this. Let me just say one other thing, importantly, first, which is that one of my big beliefs, Kyle, is that as human beings, we each have a developmental need to have a holistic relationship with nature, right? That that is as important as having a mother or a father that shows up. It's important as having clean air, good water to drink, healthy food. We are of this earth. There is no separation between humans and the planet that we live on. We have evolved of this earth. This is as basic as it gets. So this wild experiment of modern people living in boxes

Starting point is 00:24:58 and driving around 2000 pound metal boxes with little wheels on them to go from one big box to the next. You know, we don't even fully yet realize what the greater impacts of that are. I mean, we're seeing all kinds of results already, negative things that happen to the human system, the human being when we disconnect ourselves. And now there's tons of studies about how connecting with nature, even if it's as simple as going on a hike or just spending 15 minutes is good for body, heart, mind, soul, spirit. I mean, they've even done those studies where looking at a picture of nature is good for the human system, right? So, I think what's important for folks to realize is that the vision quest, the soul wonder, all the things we're talking about here, these are all based on this very basic idea that as human beings, we need to have an ongoing functioning practice of basic connection with the natural world.

Starting point is 00:25:56 And that's what my teacher was pointing towards when he told me, hey, go out and sit for 20 minutes a day out there, just immerse, just soak in it, right? So that's really important. But yeah, so jumping in. So, I want to actually start with a poem here. And maybe some of the listeners have heard this, maybe not. But either way, I invite folks to just maybe close your eyes and take this in on a deep level and take this in with the beginner's mind, right? This poem is called The Invitation by Oriah Mountain Dreamer. It doesn't interest me what you do for a living. I want to know what you ache for and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing. It doesn't interest me how

Starting point is 00:26:43 old you are. I want to know if you'll risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being alive. It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon. I want to know if you've been touched by the center of your own sorrow, if you've been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain. I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or yours, without moving to hide it or fade it or fix it. I want to know if you can be with joy, mine or your own. If you can dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips

Starting point is 00:27:25 of your fingers and toes, without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, to remember the limitations of being human. It doesn't interest me if the story you're telling me is true. I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself. If you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul, if you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy. I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty every day, and if you can source your own life from its presence. I want to know if you can live with failure yours and mine and still stand at the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon yes it doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have I want to know if you can get up after the night of grief and despair

Starting point is 00:28:20 weary and bruised to the bone and do what needs to be done to feed the children. It doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here. I want to know if you'll stand in the center of the fire with me and not shrink back. It doesn't interest me where or with whom you've studied. I want to know what sustains you from the inside when all else fails away, falls away. I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like the company you keep in the empty moments.

Starting point is 00:29:11 Again, that is The Invitation by orion mountain dreamer and it it opens up a space poetry does right it has this almost psychoactive capacity um as we hear the words and allow those to sink in and fill in the gaps and see what that touches inside of us to open up a space. And so that's what we're doing here, right? We're opening up a space and I, and you were kind of speaking to this Kyle, but I think it's, it's worth saying for this podcast, this will be a little different, you know, I'm sure lots of folks are just going to listen to this, you know, whatever on their drive or their run or whatnot.

Starting point is 00:29:38 But this is really my offering to folks is, is, is for an experiential activity. So this is, I'm offering this almost like a mini workshop of sorts. Certainly introductory, just base level. But I really want to invite people to consider taking this on as a practice, right? So the soul wanderer. So this is a traditional earth-based practice designed to deepen one's connection with soul, with nature, with the deep self, and done together in a group as we saw the Fit for Service Mastermind. It's designed to connect

Starting point is 00:30:15 people deeply to one another, to build community. In order, all of that is serving the greater purpose of moving forward on one's visionary path of discovering and embodying one's life purpose. So, it's a really old process. The fundamentals of it were first offered to me by my traditional elder, Oglala Lakota elder, Gilbert Walking Bull, who has a phenomenal story. He died in 2007. I worked with him for seven years from 2000 to 2007, and he was in his late 70s when he died. So, he was raised off reservation in like the 1930s by a group of 23 holy people. Now, what's amazing about that is that in a traditional culture, in his culture, it would have been maybe one holy person per kind of hundred people who were not the holy person, right? That would serve the needs of

Starting point is 00:31:11 the people. But what they saw at that time was that the traditional ways of their people were literally in danger of going away forever. And so, 23 holy people came together and identified 16 different children, all like really young, under the age of six, and decided to bring them in, take them actually from their parents and raise them in a deep, deep immersion. And we can't really even imagine what that might have been like, deep immersion of the traditional spiritual ways of the people. He was one of those individuals. And so, he was raised off reservation with a traditional connection to the old ways in really a fully unbroken lineage. Lots more to say about Gilbert, but he was a major influence for me in my path. And I'm honoring him and recognizing that lineage here with this talk. As well, I want to remember Stephen Foster and Meredith Little, their work with Hymethea Storm, Grandpa Raymond

Starting point is 00:32:05 and Sun Bear. I'm also drawing from their work with this. And that's a big thing, right? Honoring our lineage. Where do we come from? We're not all just floating out here in the middle of nowhere. We have teachers. We have those who pass things. And I think that's important for us to recognize those things. So, with that said, let's talk, let's break down the soul wander a little bit so two words soul wander well so what is soul let's let's try and define that well right away that's an impossibility we can't it's soul is undefinable um but if i'm going to take a stab at it um i would offer that soul is one's uh deepest essence right if there is a part of us or a place that knows our purpose, that knows our greater calling, our vision in life, it is our soul, right? Soul

Starting point is 00:32:55 is the reason why we have taken earthly form, right? Soul is the niche that we're meant to occupy in the great web of life. Just like any mountain or squirrel or moose or creek or a tree, everything has its place in the great web of life. So, discover our soul is to discover how we fit in this world, right? And when we locate our point of identity in the soul rather than in the ego, that's when we experience our purpose, right? So, for me, I can claim this personality of Tim and he's great, you know, or you can claim Kyle and he's great too. I kind of like him. Tim and Kyle are cool guys, you know, but for each of us, that's just one option. I can also locate my point of identity in soul. And so soul, we want to think of not so much as an aspect of who we are potential until we reach our potential, right?

Starting point is 00:34:06 When a person claims their soul, connects with that and claims their place, that's when you begin to authentically touch your deepest gifts, your tremendous potential that's really been waiting for us all along. No question. One of my colleagues, Bill Plotkin, describes this process of locating our identity with soul as our mythopoetic identity. And I'll read his definition of that. He says, that is an identity expressed through symbol and metaphor, image and dream, archetype and myth. An identity embodied in a mysterious story that whispers to us in moments of expanded awareness and exquisite aliveness the shape and rhythm of this story reveals the hidden treasure that each of us carries for the world a world longing for the transformative contributions of visionary leaders and artisans of cultural renaissance and that's a pretty good one that's a fucking great one

Starting point is 00:35:06 so importantly to acknowledge wow look at our world holy shit california washington oregon the west coast is burning on fire we've got the coronavirus pandemic we've got insane political upheaval we've got racial protests the likes of which we haven't seen since the 60s economic recession all kinds of craziness right kyle like it doesn't take much to look out there and say holy crap the world is on fire you know physically literally and and metaphorically so what's needed you know what is is a mature adult responsible response to that? At the deepest level, my belief is to connect with our soul, to connect with our vision, our purpose.

Starting point is 00:35:53 Why am I here? And to live that and bring that to the world, right? So that's soul. Let's also look at the word wander. Well, importantly, it is not a soul hike. It is not. This is not a sole hike it is not this is not a hike that's the first thing i have to tell people because everyone's got this file card this idea of a hike and i put my backpack on and i start at the trailhead and i wind up at the top of the mountain

Starting point is 00:36:15 and i come back or whatnot well this is not a hike okay so if it's not a hike then what the heck is it well that's a good. That's where we want our listeners with the open questioning mind, right? To go on a wander is to go moving in the natural world without time and without destination. So it's letting go of the watch. It's letting go of, I've got to be at this particular place. It's just following one's intuition, one's heart, and seeing where that guides you. Right? A good idea might be for one to go on this soul wander until they have forgotten who they are. Right?

Starting point is 00:37:00 And that's talking about the ego, until the ego has released its grip on you some, because maybe then soul can find you, right? I always like to say, purpose, vision, soul, it's looking for you as much as you're looking for it, right? Like that's, oh my God, how many times, how many days, how many years, how many decades have I spent searching, questing for my deepest calling, for my purpose? And yet the moments when I connect most deeply with it are the moments when I just surrender and allow it to find me, right? So, if soul is seeking me as much or maybe more than I'm seeking it, then the real question is not how do I find it, but how do I get found? And that's more of a proper frame on this experience. What do I have to let go of? How can I slow down? How can I open myself so that I can be found? Because the big lie is that we are separate from nature. That's the big running unconscious narrative in the modern experience. I get people all the time and they say, oh, I'm so excited to go out with you, Tim, to come to your workshops. And I haven't spent any time in nature and it's too long. And this

Starting point is 00:38:17 is going to be so good and so renewing. And I'm like, okay, great. But there's one problem with that, which is everything is nature. This building, this computer, this microphone, these headphones, none of it came from Mars. And even if it did, that would still be nature. Nature is life. Yes, have we adapted it? Have we modified it? Of course. And does that impact us? Yes. But this concept that we are separate from nature and that we are away from it most of the time, and then we have moments where we go to take on is you are nature. You are of this earth, the same water, same air we've been breathing, the food, the molecules, it's all one. I mean, truly, physically, spiritually, the whole bit, mentally, emotionally, right? If we look at indigenous language, I love studying indigenous language and I I'm no master at all, but one of the things we find is that in most indigenous languages, you don't actually have a word for nature. And when I first realized that, I was like, oh my god, really? Like,

Starting point is 00:39:37 wait a minute, what? What do you mean you don't have a word for nature? You live in nature. Well, what does that mean? Why? why would that be the case well of course because there was no need for it it was it's if they had a word it was like it meant like life right like there's no separation there's no need to identify nature as anything different from life itself another interesting point with indigenous languages indigenous languages oftentimes don't have a word for goodbye they'll have see you later or they'll have until next time but those are very different messages than goodbye and what does that point to it points to the fact that there's not this belief in separation as much as i think most of us in the modern world have been raised in the modern narrative right and so we're kind of talking about a very deep level of consciousness here we're

Starting point is 00:40:32 talking about like the operating system of what it is to be a human being i mean can you imagine like being raised as a kid never having ever heard anybody not your mom your dad your brother your sister your grandma your grandpa ever say the word goodbye. Like there was always this knowing that we're always together and we are nature. Like that's really, really different than how I was raised, right? So we are nature, right? Super important. So with the soul wander, when someone goes out, invariably, there's going to be signs and symbols of the inner journey that we all experience, whether that's the emotional journey of healing or the journey of holding ourselves, the journey of connecting with our vision. There's signs and symbols that will be reflected back to an individual through nature, right? There's like certain powers in nature, medicines might be species or forms or whatnot in nature

Starting point is 00:41:30 that mirror the individual's power as well, right? And those are going to be attracted and revealed to the individual going on the wander, right? So, together with you, there's a weaving of what? One's deeper path, the realization, the culmination of one's soul path, right? So, as all this comes together, it's like a mythical story begins to emerge, right? A story with you, the wanderer, the listener here at the center of that story, the heroine, the hero. And like all stories, that story has a beginning, a middle, and an end, right? So, that story is the one that offers the visionary guidance, offers the clarity

Starting point is 00:42:19 of one's authentic path moving forward. So ideally, a soul wander traditionally would be like a full day, sunrise to sunset. That would be a classical traditional soul wander. You can do it shorter, but maybe what, two, three hours. But like anything, what somebody puts into this is going to be a reflection of what they get out of it. Traditionally, it would be done with no food. So there's fasting when we did it at Fit for Service. I think just about everybody fasted that day, right? And again, it's setting forth on a wandering intuitive course free of time or destination without consciously trying to reach any particular goal, right? So as you wander, it's paying attention with the senses, opening up the senses,

Starting point is 00:43:07 being aware of where you're intuitively drawn or repulsed from, and really being present with the consciousness of life all around, right? At a certain moment on the wander for everybody, and I know you had this yourself, you'll find something or there'll be an encounter and a symbol of meaning and importance, right? And you may or may not feel called to bring this item back with you. You may or may not even be able to. But either way, that's a symbol of the journey, right? We're going to unpack this a little more. I'm just kind of giving an

Starting point is 00:43:42 outline overview right now. When we begin and end a soul wander, we want to mark that with some sort of ceremonial threshold. So that might be as simple as an archway, you know, of branches or crossing this little creek, but marking this is where it begins and this is where it ends. You know, the truth is that nature and soul is always speaking to us. But to actually be fully present to that, I think would drive someone crazy. Like to actually realize how much soul is constantly talking to us. I don't think we're actually capable of it. Maybe like when I'm 100 years old, right? But it's healthy and helpful to say, this is where it begins. This is where it ends, right? And it's good to, a lot of folks are probably big into journaling.

Starting point is 00:44:32 It's good to journal your soul wander. But importantly, I always tell people, don't bring the journal out there because you want to have the experience before you reflect on the experience. And the same goes for Vision Quest or any of the nature immersion experiences. You know, we're so, I think the modern human is so, especially here in the U S is so, I have this in myself too, right? I'm as bad as anybody. Um, there's such a, an anxiousness to like figure it out. What is it teaching me? Oh, I gotta,

Starting point is 00:45:02 I gotta get it, you know? And that anxiousness can really kill the experience, right? It can kill the part of us that can actually surrender to the experience. So, with the journaling, I say, leave the journal at home, you know? Trust that you're going to remember what's important. It's going to stay with you, right? Allow yourself to be fully present with it. And importantly, the soul wander is an exercise of balance and attunement. It's not about challenging the elements or challenging the heights. It's not an endurance contest. A lot of guys have been there, myself included, for sure.

Starting point is 00:45:47 But it's about going out as the wander and maintaining connection with the beauty of life the reality of death and seeing that how both of those are reflected internally and in the natural world right so it's done alone um i always tip it no no bikes no kayaks no dogs just you and nature unmediated just you and wild nature um typically as wild of a place as possible but you know you don't have to go up to alaska or bob marshall wilderness of montana or something um if all you've got is like a state park, cool. Don't let that stop you. I mean, I've had folks do it in city parks. That's fine too. Definitely, there's something to be said for the wildness and the more wildness, the better so that that can reflect your inner wildness, which is the place of your soul. But yeah, that's a big one. So let me pause

Starting point is 00:46:44 there, Kyle, and just kind of checking with you. How's all this resonating? How's all this landing? Anything in particular that you're jiving with here? Yeah, this is phenomenal. And, you know, one thing I was reminded of that you had spoken about before, you know, when you talk about the journal stuff, I mean, I've had, I've had ceremonies where once I start writing, it's almost like I can't stop. Like, it's like the, that part of the analytical mind gets switched on. And there's so much to discuss that even though I'm still inward and I'm not outwardly speaking or disturbing of other people, um, I'm still moving into this masculine energy

Starting point is 00:47:19 where it's outward. I'm no longer in my feminine receptivity where I can just surrender and continue to download the information. The moment I go to, you know, even thinking about it in a way of like, oh, like you said, like that's, oh, that's an important one. Don't forget that one. And I start getting into the monkey mind of really trying to process the value of what's just come through. I'm no longer listening to anything else coming in. And that's such a huge one in any medicinal experience or any ceremonial experience. I really find value in that and knowing that whatever's in you is not lost. It may not all come back to you the moment you pick

Starting point is 00:47:57 up your journal. It may take days or weeks to unpack and that's okay too, you know, but that is a big one. And I think something you had mentioned, I'm really forgetting what you worded, but it was at the Soul Wanderer in Sedona or in Tahoe, rather, I don't think you mentioned on this podcast yet. But when you write it down, that's one of the ways the mind actually unpacks and makes sense of the experience. Yeah, absolutely. So that's the recapitulation process. All the modern brain-based science shows that the way the human brain learns is actually in looking back at experience. So we need to have the full experience and then we need a process of looking back.

Starting point is 00:48:38 That could be journaling. That could be me sharing my story with you, right? Certainly indigenous tribes recognize this wisdom. The classic experience would have been the young person goes out, has their experience and comes back to the council of elders and shares their story. And that story would then be shared multiple times. I know for me, my deepest stories, I mean, the quests I've done 20 some years ago, I still tell those stories and you know, I'm still learning from them. Soul Wanderers and Vision Quest, I did literally 20 years ago, are still teaching me. And so, we know this, you know, it's whether from the indigenous wisdom or the modern brain-based perspective, yes, the mind learns in that way. But we got to give ourselves, as you're

Starting point is 00:49:19 importantly pointing out, that full experience of just receiving. And so there's some trust in there, right? Okay. I'm not going to forget it. You know, if it's important, it's going to stay. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, good. So the other thing, and you were speaking about this earlier, rites of passage, right? So I'm a big believer in the power of rites of passage. And that terminology first came to us from, I think it was Arnaud von Genep. And I don't know if I'm a big believer in the power of rites of passage. And that terminology first came to us from, I think it was Arnaud von Genep. And I don't know if I'm getting that name exactly correct, but he was a French anthropologist. And the early 1900s came up with that terminology. And that was after studying indigenous culture and recognizing, oh, they've got these initiations and these rites of passage in their communities.

Starting point is 00:50:11 And they all look a little different and yet there was a common theme to how those all played out and that still has a lot of power for us today so the soul wander here and certainly a vision quest and all the plant medicine ceremonies and everything else are all actually based on this basic structure of a rite of passage right right? So let's talk about that a little bit. Classic three elements, and a lot of folks may be present, aware of this, but the classic three elements would be severance, threshold, and incorporation. All right, so severance or separation, breaking away from the known, right? Stepping away from family, from ordinary reality, from known places, going into the unknown, right? Then having the threshold, the ordeal, the challenge itself, the soul wander, the vision quest, what have you, the actual body of the experience. And that's some sort of a testing

Starting point is 00:50:57 where the individual is tested deeply and has to dig in and find inner resources that maybe they never knew they had before, right? And then coming back, importantly, incorporation and integration, coming back in this new role, being witnessed by community and claiming those gifts from the wild places or from soul, right? So, it's good to break this down a little bit, right? So, with severance separation, it's so important that we give ourselves this, right? It's the break from the known. Whenever I do soul wanders, we always take people out to some new place. When we were in Tahoe, we left the retreat center and went out to a backcountry state forest area. Amazingly, we found this beautiful spot where the washoe indians had

Starting point is 00:51:46 traditionally used for a mortar and pestle and the and the bowls right for like grinding pine nuts and acorns you remember this and and those those those mortars were still in the big rocks right there so it was like oh my god people have been gathering here for thousands of years and what did that evoke well it invoked the connection and what a special place to do that experience. But it also invoked, wow, I'm in a new place. This is new. This is not ordinary. What happens to your awareness? Senses peak. I'm taking all the information in. Where am I? What's going on here? All that's super important, right, for a rite of passage. And of course, the old teaching, I know you and Aubrey like this one,

Starting point is 00:52:28 hokahe, right, today is a good day to die. So what does it mean to separate cleanly from the past? I am in good relationship with my friends, with my loved ones, with my brothers, my sisters, my wife, my kids. I'm in clean relationships. I'm in good relation with all of all things the natural world the spirits uh my creator i am today if i were to die i hope i don't but gosh if i were i could die cleanly you know that's that's a good practice

Starting point is 00:52:59 any day right but certainly before going off on a journey of encountering soul. So, then we have the threshold. This is the challenge itself, the ordeal, the actual, as I said, the body of the experience. And threshold, we could think of in two ways. A threshold is like a doorway, right? That's one meaning of the word. So, it's a doorway into what? Well, it's a doorway into the spiritual world, the realm of soul, the liminal, the imaginal, right? And the other definition, I love this one, threshold comes from threshing hold or traditionally threshing floor. I'm a bit of a word nerd, love etymology. So, what is a threshing floor or a threshing hold? Well, that was the old floor, the old circular surface, hard surface, where grain was

Starting point is 00:53:54 traditionally stomped on by, in the old days, people would stomp on grain to separate the grain from the chaff, right? And the process was traditionally known as threshing, right? And so, interestingly, this is what I love about it. Let's take a look at who owned the threshing floor in those old communities. Well, it wasn't like the king or it wasn't the community leader. It was the community. It was a community-owned place. It was the commons, like the village owned, right? The whole village owned it. So, what does that tell us then if, I mean, if we just extend that metaphor one step to the village owns, the community owns the ordeal, the community owns the transformation, what does that mean? Well, for me, what it means

Starting point is 00:54:39 is it takes a village, it takes real community connections to bring out that greatest transformation from these processes. These weren't ever meant to be something that we go off and do alone. We weren't meant as humans to live this isolated life that we have these days. We're meant to be in community. And so that's one of the teachings I just love about it. But yeah, and so threshing, what is my grain? What is my chaff? What is the unnecessary that I can let go of? And what is essential to me?

Starting point is 00:55:14 That's a core question with connecting with soul. And then lastly, incorporation. Okay, so great. I had this awesome, powerful transformation and I saw God through the sparkles on the creek of reflecting the sun and my own sun back to me. Oh my God, it was this whole beautiful visionary experience.

Starting point is 00:55:36 So what the fuck does that matter if I can't bring that back and make a difference in my physical life with other people in this world and bring it back and do something with it. That's incorporation. And it's true.

Starting point is 00:55:51 What difference does any of this stuff make if we're not actually changed by it and utilizing that as inspiration to make a difference in the world? So incorporation, bringing back to corpus post the body right this is where the real work is this is that essential question what am i bringing back to my people back to my earth um that's where the rubber meets the road baby yeah right there yeah it's such a big one uh reminding me of the book king warrior magician lover by robert moore no yeah one other one but

Starting point is 00:56:24 one of the things he talks about when he gets into initiation, he has another one that I haven't read yet, but the archetypes of initiation. And I'm sure in that book, he talks about it as well, is you could have all of these elements set in place, you know, from a medicine or a form of fasting, some way of accessing the altered state. You could have, you know, the buddhist temple or the most sacred site you know on untouched preserved native land and you can have the right intention in all these things but without the elder without the community without the support team to help you bring this

Starting point is 00:56:56 back into 3d reality you're missing one of the most important elements to actually grounding the experience and making it real. Yeah. And it's that, it's that ability of community to hold one another. And within that community, elders, medicine, men, and women, the people who we look to, to really usher in these transformative states of being so that it's not just a psyche fracture and what the fuck do I do trying to pick up the pieces,

Starting point is 00:57:25 but there is somebody that can reflect back upon us what's really going on there and what are the next steps and how do I integrate? And I think that's an important piece. Obviously, my goal of this podcast was to give an experience for people. And certainly certainly I feel like this is, this is one of those things where it is doable, you know, it is doable. And obviously if you have somebody like an elder or somebody you can reach out to help unpack that even better. I wouldn't be recommending, you know, we're not going to unpack the four day, no food, no water, and tell people to go out and do that solo. Right. I'm not going to tell somebody to order ayahuasca off of Alibaba and pour themselves a cup and just see what happens. Like that's, there are certain ones, you know, that are, the stakes are high enough where it has to be curated. It has to be cared for,

Starting point is 00:58:14 but even still with the soul wanderer in and of itself, and with any of these transformative experiences, it's so much more important that we do have, you know, that, that reflection process, as you mentioned with journaling, you know, that reflection process, as you mentioned, with journaling, you know, to be able to bounce this stuff back and forth from people and to continue to unpack so that it does start to settle in and create a foundation of how we're going to live going forward. Yeah, absolutely. Because there's a real danger to having transformational experiences and not having them integrated. That can actually be a recipe for disaster. I won't go into too many hazard stories on that.

Starting point is 00:58:49 But this is real stuff we're talking about. Now, with this, I will say, with this soul wander, for someone to go out for a few hours or even for a day is a reasonable thing. A person, listeners, could go and enact this. They're definitely going to get more out of it if they even do it with a friend and then share stories at the end. And if people, of course, are really interested in this, I mean, reach out to me. I facilitate these and there's mentoring available. But yeah, so listen, I got a lot more to cover. So I want to keep rolling here. Let's do it. A little bit about the medicine

Starting point is 00:59:22 wheel. And obviously, there's probably imagining a lot of your listeners are familiar with the medicine wheel. So it's a basic model of wholeness based on the natural world that takes a look at life itself and typically mapped onto the four directions. Some are much more complex. There's six and eight and 64 and 512, all kinds of wild interpretations of the medicine wheel. I'm just going to offer a very basic one to give a little bit of grounding for people in this. So the medicine wheel, again, model of wholeness, it provides a way of looking at the world that offers us a pathway to balance and health, right? we would cult as individuals we cultivate the ability to embody each of the medicines of the four directions right um so as i share these for the listeners

Starting point is 01:00:13 i'll say a couple of things you know one is see if you can get a sense for these directions and the general energies of them the archetypes as well as do a little bit of self-profiling, right? Like, where am I? Are there certain directions that I'm strong in, others that I need a little bit more development, right? So, I'm going to start with the south. A lot of wheels start in the east because that's where in the northern hemisphere, it's where the sun rises and where we would put like birth, human birth at. And that's true here with this wheel. But in my experience, most of us as people, we don't remember our births. I mean, some people do, and I always love talking to those folks. But for the most part, most people, the earliest

Starting point is 01:00:56 memories are childhood. So I'm going to start in the South, which is where childhood would be, right? This is the direction. Where's the sun? What time of day is it when the sun is in the South? Here in the Northern Hemisphere, that's midday, right? This is the direction. Where's the sun? What time of day is it when the sun is in the south? Here in the northern hemisphere, that's midday, right? So this is south is childhood, summertime, the midday, childhood. This is the direction of the body, physical health and innocence and play, right? Basic connection to the earth. I love the south. It's the pure place of emotion.

Starting point is 01:01:27 We spoke about this at Fit for Service, right? A true emotion is actually just a few moments long. It might be just a few minutes, right? It's like, how is it? You and I are both fathers. We know, what is it like when a kid has a pure emotion? They experience it, you know, they yell, maybe maybe they hit or maybe they cry and then it's gone right okay so emotions um this is the direction of the south that pure emotion that a child experiences and for us it's getting back to that can can i experience the fullness of my emotions and and and let them go right this is not like hanging on to stuff for days and weeks and years and decades. The element of this direction is water, right? So what do water and kids do when they hit obstacles?

Starting point is 01:02:14 Man, they just flow right around them, right? It's the timeless direction. A lot of people, I'll say, when we did the Soul Wander, went out and made a very strong connection with their child within. And I know a lot of folks are probably deep divers here, and there's probably a lot of folks listening that are very much into the healing journey and working with trauma and healing that. And I'm a huge believer in that. I have mad respect for that journey, having taken that myself. And I'll say this, importantly, the South is the direction where we can access our pure innocence, that child within that was actually pre-trauma, right? So, for as much as the hardships that we faced as kids, some of us, there's also a child within that's untouched and pure and magical that we still have just as much access to and would do well to connect with just as much as folks who are connecting with the wounded child out there and doing that healing work. So, that's the direction of south. If there's a love in the south, it's the love of body,

Starting point is 01:03:17 right? The west. So, we're going to move around the medicine wheel as the sun travels. So, what happens after the heat of the day? Well, the sun travels to the west and it sets. So, there's west of the direction of sunset. It's the season of autumn, right? The colors of the trees reflecting the colors of a beautiful sunset. This is the direction of adolescence and the human development. So, this is when, as humans, we first start going within introspection uh the psyche the soul is here in the west it's uh as the sun goes down it's darkness and like a bear going into hibernation uh it's we have to face our darkness right so the west is the direction of the shadow

Starting point is 01:04:00 and the dark night of the soul right it's It's the place where our sacred gift and our sacred wounds are intertwined, right? Two sides of the same coin. Nighttime, ancestors. As a culture, modern culture, we don't go to the West, right? Supposed to always be happy, supposed to always have that smile on. It's all good, right?

Starting point is 01:04:21 It's all good. Yeah, how's that working? Not at all. So it's diving into the darkness and being willing to sit with the pain, like the poem. Are you willing to sit with the pain and not shy away yours or mine, right? If there's a love in the West, it's the love of self. Not in like an, I don't know, arrogant way or something, but like, oh, I've got this huge inner landscape and I love myself and I get to explore it, right? That's the West.

Starting point is 01:04:52 North, moving right along here, and then here in the Northern Hemisphere, the sun is actually in the North in the night. It's on the other side of the earth, but it's not straight down. It's to the North, right? So, North is nighttime um winter um this is the direction of adulthood even elderhood um it's the place of structure and mind right uh the place of deep service right to be a parent uh it's the work needed for kids and culture to to function right um it's self-discipline. It's mentoring others. It's caring for others. It's finding joy in the difficulty of tasks.

Starting point is 01:05:30 And if there's a love in the North, it's that love of others. East. East is what's happening with the sun. Sun rises, so beginnings, but it's also the ending. So East is by definition paradoxical, right? Springtime, death and birth, death and rebirth East is by definition paradoxical, right? Springtime,

Starting point is 01:05:45 death and birth, death and rebirth. It's non-binary, right? It's fluid, free surrender, spirit, dance, paradox, magic, right? It's the place of listening for that sacred answer. The old parable, right? The seeker goes to the master and asks, master, how do I know God? How do I learn what God is? The master says, God lives behind your every thought. Okay, think about that one for a while. So, the East is love of spirit and mystery, right? So, even just, this is a really short intro to the medicine wheel, but even as I offer those, again, for the listeners out there, where are you strong? What do you have developed? What needs some developing? The medicine wheel is not a pathological model. It's a model of wholeness. So it's not about saying, oh, there's something wrong with you. It needs to be fixed. It's recognizing that as a human being, we're constantly on a journey of development. And at any one point in time, I might be strong somewhere and moving towards greater development somewhere else. So, or if people feel stuck, oftentimes there is this process where we can kind of get stuck in a certain direction. Very simply, look at that next direction using the clockwise sunwise movement and ask okay

Starting point is 01:07:07 how can i bring in a little bit of that right so that's one of the things i love most about this model it's not pathological we're always growing always moving right um so let's go from there right into intention um importantly uh i know you and i jive on this one kyle so there was the study done by the institute of noetic sciences right and their essential question was uh what are the element the essential elements of the transformational process and they studied all kinds of ceremonies some entheogens vision quests you know workshops individuals organizations and what they came down to is two things that were just absolute non-negotiables. You want to transform, two things are required.

Starting point is 01:07:51 Those two things are intention and surrender, which I just love, you know. So you've got to have an intention. I am here clearly for this reason. And you've got to be willing to let that go and be open to what the mystery has to offer right so with the soul wander having an intent the whole thing is a big surrender but going with the intention is key and if we look at nature we can say again i've kind of hit this theme a few times there are only two real laws in nature are birth and death. Everything is born in nature and everything dies. That might be a really quick scale of like a day

Starting point is 01:08:33 for an insect. It might be eons for a mountain, but everything is born and everything dies. And that's true with us as well. So a classic starting point for a soul wander intention would be what's dying in me and what is being born. And for us as humans, you know, if we're on this journey, taking it, it starts typically with the death,

Starting point is 01:08:57 right? Like some, I got to make space. I got to clear space, like go of something before something else can come in. And I would offer that, you know, for the listeners now, if you're listening to this and you're with us and it's like, man, this is resonating and this is activating something in you, there's probably a calling that brought you here.

Starting point is 01:09:17 There's something deeper than just a random website, right? There's probably a deeper spiritual calling. And if you take that calling, this is to the listeners, if you take that calling and bring it to the land, that will be confirmed. It will. The nature and spirit and soul will reflect that back to you. And that's a powerful thing. So that's the power of intention. Someone, you could go with a really generic one like, gosh, my intention is just to surrender. You could go with just, yeah, what's dying, what's being born. You could get more specific and much more kind of honed in. The one intention I tell people not to bring to a soul wander is,

Starting point is 01:09:56 what is my purpose? If you're at that level and you're really, that's a burning desire in you, let's talk about a vision quest because that's actually a ceremony that can hold that level of intention. A lot of times when I go off on a soul wander, I'll ask, another great one is, what is the next step on my path of vision? What is the next step on my path of purpose? That can be a really helpful one, more bite size. So yeah, that's a few thoughts there on intentions. And I know we talked about medicine wheel. How's that landing for you, Kyle? Any reflections here?

Starting point is 01:10:30 Oh, it's absolutely incredible. Yeah. And I love how you break down intention, surrender. Intention is what is being born and surrender is what is dying in me. It's funny because, you know, I had so much going through my head when I was out in Tahoe and fit for service. And, you know, again, what I was speaking about, but also my own personal journey, you know, the things that I'm working on that are fairly constant, especially, you know, if we look outward, as you mentioned earlier, I don't think there's ever been a more of a feeling of more importance in the recognition of that. And, and really what I mean by the recognition of that is not like, how do I heal the world?

Starting point is 01:11:11 How do I fix everyone's problems or any of that stuff? It's how do I, how do I step into alignment with myself? How do I come to a state of resonance with all that's around me so that I operate at my best, no matter what's going on externally. And, you know, we showed up for the second one and we had to welcome in the first group that was returning. And thankfully, I got to hear all of this from you a second time face to face. And that's the impetus for this podcast. But from a me, me, me standpoint, I fucking wanted it.

Starting point is 01:11:43 I wanted it for myself. And I was pretty pissed that I wasn't going to get to spend at least half a day out in the land, but I was fasted. And, um, you know, I, for 30 minutes, I had one of the most incredible experiences I've ever had. And maybe, you know, we'll have time, uh, perhaps to dive into that. But, um, the intention surrender piece is such a huge one. And I think I'd mentioned this

Starting point is 01:12:05 before. Dr. Joe Dispenza has a huge piece on this too, where he says intention is the thing that you bring to the table that you're setting a prayer, help me with or any anything that you want to bring into reality, like a manifestation or whatever word you want to call that. And then you surrender the how and why it happens. Yes. Right. And that, that's really a big one for me.

Starting point is 01:12:27 And I think it pairs well with what you were saying earlier about this, this frantic state of being that we're locked into from constantly doing. And if we take that out into the land, you know, I'm jerking around looking over my shoulders for where's the medicine. Oh, I think that was something. And, you know, it actually takes a surrendering of the need to know the thing almost like, okay, let me just get calm and relax a bit.

Starting point is 01:12:55 And as I was able to do that, it was just a flood of information. It was like, wow, like, holy shit. I mean, in everything from the big to the small you know you talked about that with the the grizzly bear uh story which oh yeah i don't have time to get into maybe we do but um yeah uh just just incredible you know like don't wait for yeah the grizzly bear to come and teach you the mess and then right right be present and aware of all things it could be an ant it could be an inchworm like you talked about. And as I mentioned, for me, a honeybee just gave me so much, you know, so it can be literally

Starting point is 01:13:32 anything if we're willing to slow ourselves down and surrender and open ourselves to any and all possibilities. Yeah. When you bring that to the table, it is matched and met. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So let's break that down a little bit for the listeners. So when I think of best practices of the soul wanderer, importantly, we start with what are called the three taboos. So no food, no company, and no human shelter, right?

Starting point is 01:14:01 You're going off alone with limited distractions, ideally as few distractions as possible, right? You're going off alone, limited distractions, ideally as few distractions as possible, right? Again, as we said, marking that beginning and that ending with a ceremonial, some sort of marking, use the natural world, use what you got. It could be that creek, it could be that branch bent over and ask, you know, start it, make it a ceremony. It doesn't have to be any fancy, but give thanks, right? Ask for help, ask for guidance and connection and safety and wisdom, right? There's no way to fail a soul wander, maybe unless like you don't come back. So definitely we want everyone to come back and be open, right?

Starting point is 01:14:43 To what's there. Be here now. This is great. Just as you're talking about, Kyle, get present. You know, let go of the past. Let go of yesterday. Let go of last week. Let go of this morning.

Starting point is 01:14:55 Let go of five seconds ago. Like, what does it mean to be here now, right? Immerse yourself in nature, right? Just slow down. Take a few deep breaths. Get present in the moment. What's happening? What's happening in your senses, right? Quiet that mind like a walking meditation, right? Fritz Perls, the old quote, lose your mind and come to your senses, right? And yeah, open up those senses, right? Saturate yourself. Listen to the sound of raindrops falling on the saturated ground of a hemlock forest or smell the intoxicating goodness of a ponderosa pine bark lit up by the warm sunshine in the afternoon smelling like

Starting point is 01:15:40 cinnamon and vanilla, you know? Feel the cold squeegee-ness of mud between your toes right taste the delicious pleasure of a ripe blackberry against your tongue you let your eyes feast on the myriad of greens of the springtime where life is coming back right if you're really brave we had some folks do this at fit for service strip down, literally. Go buck naked like you're in your birthday suit and experience that awe and wonder of nature through your senses. Right? And from the experience of those five senses, a deeper sense will emerge, the sixth sense, intuition. So many people these days are so gung-ho on intuition and me too. And yes, it is so important. But I think sometimes I feel like

Starting point is 01:16:32 we've forgotten where that comes from. That is a way we perceive the world, reality. And it is a risk it is a sense just like eyes ears nose tongue mouth right like uh skin we have these senses and in the modern experience it's like they're assaulted so it takes a practice it's a skill set to open our senses back up right as we become the earth but as we do so indeed that sixth sense is activated and that's where we follow it follow the intuition follow what i call the compass of the heart but where does it just feel like i want to go what draws me what repulses me when people are on soul wanders oftentimes they'll find something that's dark or like scary and sometimes that can be just as much of a magnet as well so don't avoid those places some that's those can be reflections of course of our shadow so pay attention to those just as much as the places that are like oh really

Starting point is 01:17:35 juicy and delicious right um there's power spots out there you may people may be called to just sit. Oftentimes, I just sit, and that's a lot. That is more than enough. And importantly, this is about a journey of connection. That's what we started with. And so we know this. Certainly, I'm thinking your listeners know this, right? How do we get connected? Through our vulnerability, right?

Starting point is 01:18:02 If I want to connect with you as my brother, you and I had this beautiful journey in Tahoe, right? I open up. I got to take a fucking risk and share something risky inside myself that reveals me to you, you know, and vice versa. And as we do that, our connection strengthens. The bond strengthens. Same goes for nature. If you want to go out there and connect with nature, take the jacket off if it's a little

Starting point is 01:18:27 cool. You know what I mean? Take your shoes off. Emotionally, open up. Express something real and something a little edgy. You don't have to throw yourself into overwhelm, but be vulnerable. It's that vulnerability begets connection, right? And I do encourage people to speak out loud.

Starting point is 01:18:47 Speak your intention out loud. Kids do this. You know, again, we know this as dads. Our boys do this when they go outside. They'll talk to a butterfly out loud. No problem. You know, our indigenous brothers and sisters do this. And yet we as modern people have this whole stigma around, oh my God, they're going to

Starting point is 01:19:05 throw me in the loony bin if I talk to a tree or something. Express yourself, open that up, and do so passionately, tap that passion. I always say if purpose is a treasure box, like a treasure chest, then it's locked. And that lock like a treasure chest then it's locked and that lock is a funny lock and it's got two keys you know two keyholes the two keys are vulnerability and passion you got to find that yourself that passion that you deep yearning that burning desire and you got to open yourself up right connecting with what what David White might call the truth at the center of the image you were born with or engaging in the largest conversation you're capable of having with the world, right? And so, as you do that, as you express yourself, so think of it like talking

Starting point is 01:19:58 to a person, right? If I was going to have a conversation, I've got to speak and then ask a question. And then I stop talking and I listen to you. And I have to listen. I have to be quiet. It's just like that with nature and soul. So go out there, put your intention out, share your passion, give it all you got, be vulnerable, and then get really still. And then slow the fuck down and really freaking listen. Listen for the feelings that come up. Listen for synchronicity. Watch out to pay attention. Again, back to the senses.

Starting point is 01:20:38 How is soul speaking to you? It might be a little bit inchworm. It might be grizzly bear. It might be anything in between. It might be a dream. It might be a song that pops up. You don't even know what the heck it is and then you look it up later and you read the lyrics you're like holy shit that was like the perfect answer you know i've had that one more than a few times and it could be a memory of of your dad or your mom or your grandma something they said. Be open to spirit, to soul speaking to you. Now, if you're like me, and I think we all have this, the inner skeptic is going to come up. Oh, well, that was bullshit.

Starting point is 01:21:12 I just made it up. I already knew that. Oh, that's not real. Well, just put that skeptic on hold. Just give it, ask the skeptic, okay, give me 24 hours, hours right just hold on 24 hours let me experience this let me read the book before i judge it right when i'm done processing this then i can make the call maybe it's bullshit okay maybe it's not but let me experience it before i judge the crap out of it and and shut it down right? And so that's it. It's that reciprocal process. Enter into a relationship with nature. Ask and listen.

Starting point is 01:21:51 Give and take. What can you give? You can give your thanks. You can give your love. You can give a hair off your head. You can make a little offering and offer that. That's a beautiful thing to do in a soul wander, right? As I move towards wrapping this up on best practices and the soul wander uh again the soul wander if and purpose and soul it's

Starting point is 01:22:14 it's not so much kyle right about what we want from the ego place it's a who and what we want to be and what we want to get. It's about what is naturally emerging. So it's like shifting our view inward. Like what is already emerging? What's already happening? Right? That's the soul wanderer. And a couple of thoughts on the physical side of things.

Starting point is 01:22:43 You know, go as wild as you can, but don't let that be a block to experiencing it. Be safe out there for sure. Yes, you are in a soulful realm, the imaginal. And yes, that's all real, but you're still a human body in physical form. So you got to take care of yourself out there, right? Look out for hazards. We had bears.

Starting point is 01:23:03 We had one guy actually, remember this, who got between a mama bear and two cubs in Tahoe and she charged him, but it was a bluff charge. And so she stopped like just a few feet in front of him, scared the hell out of him, right? So you got to still have your wits about you, do a little basic research. What are the hazards? Nature is a safe place, but there's some basic hazards you can learn about ticks, dehydration, barbed wire, whatever. Um, I generally encourage people to drink water. Um, that's fine to do, but if, you know, if you want to go with that a little bit, that's okay. Um, and go light, you know, definitely, if you can leave the phone at home, I actually have an old school watch. I don't have it on me.

Starting point is 01:23:45 I'd hold it up if I did. But I actually own a watch for a reason. Not that I'm sentimental about it, but I don't want to carry my freaking phone and the entire world in my pocket. Sure as heck. So we did this. If you got to get back at a certain time, okay, fine. So just carry the watch, not not the not the phone right oh my god um go light one of my teachers used to say what you pack is your karma so go light baby go

Starting point is 01:24:12 light um and then you know it's good practice let's some if you're especially if you're going out for a while let somebody know have an emergency protocol let somebody know where you're going when to expect you back just all the basics um so yeah i think that that's the basics i know we're pushing time here um but maybe we have a few more minutes i could share the story some some personal stories you mentioned the grizzly bear in the inchworm i could do a short version on that um yeah i want you to i want you to dive into that and then i'll i can do a short version of just something that i got from it too but um okay uh one thing i wanted to add that you had mentioned, you know, in the talk was, you know, and I, speaking to nature, look, I, I, I was like, the first time I was told that

Starting point is 01:24:54 you can talk to ayahuasca as if it's a person, I was like, interesting. All right, we'll see how that works out. And then I was just like, wow, okay, no question. That is one of the ways you work with that medicine or any medicine for that matter. But one of the things you said is that, you know, when you ask nature a question, you're not going to hear words coming back to you. At least most of us won't, you're not going to hear the answer, but you'll feel it. It's going to speak to you through the emotional body. And if it's a yes, you're going to feel an opening take place. And that's a, it's a, you know, and these, these things, again, they go into an unknowing that's unquantifiable. It's, it's well beyond belief. It's well beyond a, I think, I think it said,

Starting point is 01:25:34 yes, I think it said, no, like it's visceral. You feel it in your body. And if it's a no, it's going to be contracting. Yes. It's going to be it. Yeah. Attention like, oh, okay. All right. That doesn't feel right. And I think that's, that was one of the things that really helped me in my experience. But please, jump right in to the grizzly bear story and the intro. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Because these are fantastic. So I'll start with grizzly bear with a reason, and it'll all come clear here.

Starting point is 01:26:01 And this will just be the short version because I know we're pushing it on time here. So this is, I don't know, four or five years ago maybe more maybe it was like six or seven so i live up in idaho sandpoint idaho all the way up by canada beautiful country mountains lakes and grizzly country we've got grizzlies we have black bears we got wolves cougars wolverines the whole whole nine yards so i had been doing a course an online course about purpose discovery with a pretty well-regarded individual who was not using a nature-based approach and i had some resistance to it but i felt the call to us i said well i'll try this well in the course what he had us do at one point was have take a meditation do a meditation, and envision ourselves somewhere in nature,

Starting point is 01:26:46 just in our imagination, and that a being would come and deliver information about our purpose to us. Now, again, there was a lot of work beforehand, but I'm just kind of fast-forwarding to this little moment. So, in my meditation, I imagine that I'm climbing a real mountain, this mountain behind my house, that I'd been to before, but I went to the very peak of it, which I had not been to before at the time. And at the peak, sure enough, this being of light comes down and delivers, it was actually a really profound bit of information about my purpose at the time, which was to support people on the deeper healing journey, not just for that sake of healing, but actually for the sake of discovering their purpose.

Starting point is 01:27:28 And this was actually prior to me starting Purpose Mountain, doing all this work that I'm doing very much intentionally now. And that was super edgy, right? Because when you really tap into your soul's calling, it is terrifying and irresistible all at the same time, like straight up. Like if it doesn't scare the shit out of you and draw you like a magnet, then you probably need to do a little bit more looking.

Starting point is 01:27:52 And that's how this was, man. It scared the crap out of me. And it was like the last thing and the first thing that I wanted to hear all mixed up in one. And it's like, fuck, you know? Well, interestingly, in the meditation, it tells me, Tim, for you, you need to confirm this in physical reality so i want you to actually climb this mountain and go to this spot that you're in in your imagination so i was okay so the next day again this is the quick version i

Starting point is 01:28:15 hike up the mountain beautiful fall day and there's no hiking trails so i'm on elk trails right elker about as wide as a human being. I'm zigzagging up the mountain and, oh my God, taking in the beautiful colors, the reds and the oranges and the yellows and that cool, crisp, invigorating air, mountain air. And there's mossy rocks. Oh my God, it's just gorgeous. And looking back, I can see the big lake, Lake Pend Oreille behind me. Well, I make my way up to the top now i've been to this there was a secondary peak a lower peak i had been to

Starting point is 01:28:50 previously in physical life but i'd never been as i said to this actual peak where i went to in the meditation so i get up and as i'm going all the way up there all the way to the peak now now in unknown territory um as just before i'm about to hit that peak boy oh boy kyle all the way to the peak now now in unknown territory um as just before i'm about to hit that peak boy oh boy kyle all the hairs on the back of my neck just went up and it was like it's like that scene in spider-man you know the hairs go up on his arm and this happens right a lot of people probably know this all my senses were immediately supercharged i didn't know why this is just a physical phenomenon that's happening. But I know this has happened before. And I know when it does, my body is responding to the presence of something

Starting point is 01:29:30 on the landscape before my mind is aware of what it is. And so I'm like, all right, something's up. And I'm just like hyper aware. I go up and I'm realizing this is kind of a trip because I'm at the peak where the being of light came to me in the meditation. Like, what the fuck's going on? So I get all the way up and right when I get up there, I hear this explosion of sound off to my left. Scares the hell out of me. Throws me back. I think I actually fell to the ground.

Starting point is 01:29:59 It was so loud. My mind's processing it. I'm like, okay, okay. I know this sound. That's the sound of a deer jumping off its daybed because I was being real quiet right and i snuck up on it and it didn't know i was there until the last second so it you know jumped off but it was too big of a sound i was like fuck okay that must have been something it must have been an elk maybe it could have been a moose so i walk over and look down and there there is this massive, like, dude, 600-pound, maybe 700-pound grizzly bear just galloping down the side of the mountain.

Starting point is 01:30:33 I fell down again, second time. Holy shit. Dude, I was 10 feet away, and I just could not believe what's in front of me. Well, so she goes down. There's a little valley, just a little small one, and then back up. So now she's back at eye level with maybe 40 yards, a little valley in between. So I am stunned in awe. I'm just like still processing this, pulling myself up off the ground.

Starting point is 01:30:57 And again, simultaneously terrified and completely enthralled. And I just sit there with her for a little bit in the silence, just like in awe. Heart is racing, about to jump out of my chest. And I'm kind of processing everything and kind of in the quiet mind. I'm trying to find myself there. And then a thought comes in of, oh my God, I can't wait to tell my wife. I can't wait to tell Janine, my wife.

Starting point is 01:31:25 And the moment I did that, it was like I had violated some sacred agreement with her. And she stomps her front paw down on the ground, like a clear signal, don't go there. I'm like, holy shit. Well, I spent enough time in nature to know mammals respond, I mean, all of life responds to our thoughts very clearly. And so back to the quiet mind, I went, but I was so excited.

Starting point is 01:31:50 You know, again, I kind of have this automatic moment. Oh my God, I can't wait to tell someone. And again, she kind of lets out this low growl. And I was, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Back to the quiet mind, I go. And then again, I'm like, oh my God, I can so sorry. I'm so sorry. Back to the quiet mind, I go. And then again, I'm like, oh my God, I can't wait to tell somebody. This time she takes a step towards me, scares the hell out of me. I'm like, okay, okay, I'll stop. I'll stop. Tim, okay, get yourself together.

Starting point is 01:32:15 Get yourself together. Fully into the quiet mind. I just sat there with her, Kyle, and just took it in. Man, my heart is beating so fast and I could just feel her presence right there with me. And after a certain while, I couldn't tell you how long I sat there. It might've been 10 seconds. It might've been 10 minutes. It might've been a few hours. I honestly don't know. Time was gone, but I just knew it was time to go. And so I stood up and I just walked off with a huge gratitude and thankfulness to her. And if you think about that with wildlife encounters, it's rare that you as the human are the first one to leave the encounter.

Starting point is 01:32:56 Typically, it's the animal because they're scared. So it's something to work towards, actually, for all those naturalists out there, budding or aspiring naturalists, is when you encounter something in nature, see if you can be the one to leave. Because what that means is you have not violated anything. Well, again, long story short, there's a lot more to that story. But what the bear was offering me, and it was through mirroring and through mentoring and guidance with some of my teachers at the time, that what became clear was that bear had the exact same message of Tim. And this is actually well known in many traditions. The bears are known as the healers and with a power of connection to vision and purpose.

Starting point is 01:33:38 And so it was that exact same message confirmed in the natural world. And, you know, it was some time for me to process, integrate, incorporate that. It didn't happen in a day. It didn't even happen in a year, frankly. But I did. And frankly, that was a big part of the calling that has led me to be right here with you. Now, the reason I tell that story is because, yes, the big megafauna moments, you know, wolves and eagles and grizzly bears are possible. But you know what, Kyle? For that one experience, you know how many times I've had my soul delivered to me on the back of an ant?

Starting point is 01:34:13 Or as you mentioned, the inchworm or a blueberry bush or just staring at the clouds. You know, again, I think as modern people, it's easy for us to yearn for the dramatic. One of my teachers used to say, you know, kill the white-winged buffalo. If you're expecting this soul to deliver your vision to you on the back of a white-winged buffalo sliding down a rainbow, kill it.

Starting point is 01:34:41 Maybe that'll happen. Maybe you'll have an encounter with a grizzly bear, but it might just be that ant. Might be a tick. Might that'll happen. Maybe you'll have an encounter with a grizzly bear, but it might just be that ant. It might be a tick. It might be a spider. It might be a grain of sand. And is that really any less sacred? Can we really say that a blade of grass is any less important and less sacred than a 3,000-year-old coastal redwood tree? No way. All of life is sacred. Don't fall into that trap.

Starting point is 01:35:09 For me, one of my early soul wanderers vision quests, it was an inchworm actually that came to me. And I remember it crawling on the back of my neck and feeling it and brushing it off. It must have hit my neck three, four, five times. I would brush it off. I was literally saying to it, get out here you know i'm waiting for my vision i was literally like you know and that's a class and so what happened was um that's so classic right because for so many of us we do

Starting point is 01:35:36 that you know here's soul speaking to us and we're brushing it away we're brushing it away saying i i because we expect it to be a certain way because we have not surrendered but when i surrendered to that inchworm my god it was changed my life and i had this moment where i i just was just laying there and i was watching it you know inch along coming towards me and more than a symbol kyle more than a symbol, Kyle, more than an interpretation, I experienced myself as that interim. I experienced the interim as me. It found me. That was my purpose, my soul finding me. And it was at a time when I was so racing to find myself, and it was just telling me, man, slow down, Tim, slow down.

Starting point is 01:36:27 And it was the most profound thing. And to experience that oneness directly, this wasn't a card out of a deck. This was a freaking inchworm in front of me. You know what I mean? Like to experience that oneness, even with the inchworm was like the most sacred thing. It just brought me to tears. And I was like, my God, this is so the medicine I need right now. And so, you know, whether it's the grizzly or whether it's the inchworm or something in between to our listeners, be open, right, to what soul has for you, whatever that is, and trust, because that's enough. You it's enough and just as you are enough just as we all are enough and it's through that power of surrendering to nature giving ourselves over

Starting point is 01:37:14 you know with that intention putting together some of these old technologies that we can truly find ourselves and discover who we are and claim our purpose and our vision, claim our place in the web of life so that we can make a difference. You know, so we can touch someone's life or help this earth. You know, we can put these fires out and bring back, you know, a regenerative vision for us now, for our children, for future generations. You know, that's why we're that's that's why we're here that's why we're here beautiful brother yeah but is is there uh is there a poem one more poem that you can leave us with yes yeah yeah so um and i'll say this too you know

Starting point is 01:38:01 just a quick note if you do go off on a soul wander afterwards, I will say take some time, journal it. If you can find someone who's open to this, you know, find someone who's respectful of these kinds of processes. Share your story with them. Ask them to share some reflections with you. I do a whole process. We did this in Tahoe, teaching, mentoring, and mirroring. This isn't the context for that. That needs much more in-person interaction. But just a little reminder for folks that it does take the reflective process to get the most out of the experience. So, yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:36 So, I will send folks off with a closing poem here. And this one comes to us from Mary Oliver. It's called Wild Geese. You do not have to be good. You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the desert repenting. You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves. Tell me about despair, yours. I'll tell you mine. Meanwhile, the world goes on. Meanwhile, the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain

Starting point is 01:39:19 are moving across the landscape over the prairies and the deep trees, the mountains and the rivers. Meanwhile, the wild geese high in the clean blue air are heading home again. Whoever you are, no matter how lonely, the world offers itself to your imagination, calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting, over and over announcing your place in the family of things. Incredible, brother. Thank you so much for coming on. You have put together many, many amazing and transformative events

Starting point is 01:40:00 up in your neck of the woods. Talk a bit about those and talk about where people can find you. Yeah, so Purpose Mountain is my organization. You can find it at just purposemountain.com, www.purposemountain.com, just like it sounds. So I do a lot of one-on-one work. I love working one-on-one with people. I do group work.

Starting point is 01:40:22 I lead vision quests. I lead soul wanders. That's kind of my biggest calling these days. I also do work at Twin Eagles Wilderness School. The folks are interested in making more of that basic connection to the natural world and those survival skills and animal tracking and all of that. That's www.twineagles.org. We do programs year round, a lot of programs for kids, a lot of programs for adults. So a bunch of great offerings there. Yeah, I would warmly welcome people to check out what I've got to offer. Love to connect.

Starting point is 01:40:56 Thank you guys for tuning into the show with my dude, Tim Corcoran. Please check him out at his website. If you want further education on this stuff, if you are like me and you've tried plant medicines, but you really want to connect the way that most native cultures have connected to source, to nature through a traditional vision quest, that's four days without food or water. Tim is your guy. He can prep you and guide you through that, through his mentorship program.

Starting point is 01:41:24 And from what I've heard, he will guide you and prepare you for, I think, eight weeks. And then you head out to his spot and you go through this practice, which is sure to change your life forever. It's always going to be legal. It is the oldest way we would connect from Jesus to Buddha. Fasting has been used as one of the methods to really clear and clean out the system so that antenna is strong

Starting point is 01:41:49 and we can take a deeper dive into what's available from Source for us, why we're here, all this good stuff and more. Check out his website, link up with him and you're sure to find everything you're looking for in this life. Love you guys and I'll see you on Wednesday. Thank you.

Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #173 Tim Corcoran

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