Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #177 Erick Godsey

Starting point is 00:00:00 All right, y'all, this podcast today is a very special one. It is the third time, I believe, third or fourth time that Mr. Eric Godsey has joined the show and we just returned from a week-long venture out in Sedona for Fit for Service. And the last event of the year, which is a five-day event, was spectacular. We don't spend too much time talking about that. We, I mean, really the reason I wanted to have Eric on the show was because I'm like most people get caught up in life when I'm in life. I'm studying for podcasts, reading books, changing diapers, doing the thing. And I'm not necessarily fixated on the inner

Starting point is 00:00:39 workings of psyche and the nature of consciousness and things like that. I do think about it a lot and it's often coming up in my conversations, but not quite there with Barry yet or our little newborn wolf. When I leave and we go on these trips, I'm often under the same roof as Aubrey Marcus and Eric Godsey and a number of other amazing people. And in these experiences, every waking moment we have where we're not coaching people or in some act of work, these are the conversations we have, the stuff that we bring to you today on this podcast. And Godsey, as you know, is a huge fan of Carl Jung. One of his favorite all-time books is The Red Book. And the Red Book was birthed through the notes of the Black Books, which just came out. And so, of course, Godsey had just finished the first of seven of the Black Books.

Starting point is 00:01:33 And we take a deep dive into all things Jung in our conversation in Sedona, as well as on this podcast. We talk about trauma, what works, what does not, eric is getting ready to write a phenomenal book and you can see everything that's being poured into that right now and this conversation was one of my all-time favorites certainly my favorite with mr godsey and i know you guys are going to dig this there's a number of ways you guys can support this podcast number one click subscribe that way you get every single episode give us a five-star rating with one or two ways the show has helped you out in life. And of course, support these amazing sponsors that make this show possible. We're brought to you again by my dudes at sovereignty.co.

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Starting point is 00:03:04 tested, lab tested for purity. I absolutely love this stuff. I take it every time I travel. I use it every single day in Sedona where I don't, because of the vibration, don't really sleep too well anyways, but I had fantastic sleep. I run it two or three nights a week when I'm home and it is exceptional stuff. Head over to HTTPS colon forward slash forward slash S-O-V-E-R-E-I-G-N-T-Y dot C-O slash Kyle. And you can grab my favorite sleeping aid at sovereignty.co. Of course, we'll link to that in the show notes. So don't worry about the long URL, but make sure you click on that because that's the way that they know you're supporting this from the podcast. And

Starting point is 00:03:43 you'll be able to get that amazing money back guarantee where they not only refund you, but they'll buy you your favorite supplement as a replacement in addition to the a hundred percent refund. So you only get that if you check it out, the exact URL that we've linked to in the show notes. Moving on. If there's one mineral, you should be worried about not getting enough of it's magnesium. Magnesium is the body's master mineral, powerful over 600 critical reactions, including detoxification, fat metabolism, energy, even digestion is influenced by the presence of magnesium. There are two big problems here. Magnesium has been largely missing from the US soil since the 1950s, which explains why it's estimated that up to 80% of the population may be deficient.

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Starting point is 00:06:27 ways that we try to self-medicate so we have more mental and physical energy. Electrolytes seem to be at the forefront of this, and that's a weird thing. Even if you're not grinding, I mean, I certainly don't train like I used to when I was fighting. It doesn't matter. Salt has the ability, along with other electrolytes, to make water more usable. And when we do that, we get more bang for our buck from water. There doesn't seem to be a problem with people getting enough water. We can actually have too much water if it's not the right water and there aren't electrolytes in it. And a lot of waters in today's world are devoid of natural

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Starting point is 00:07:44 for fasting and intermittent fasting, and of course, as keto to curb carb crazings, electrolytes for fasting and intermittent fasting, and of course, as keto flu, as I mentioned, it's super important that no matter what we're doing in life, we are getting hydrated enough to do the job effectively. This is going to provide us with physical energy, endurance, as well as mental energy. It's going to help with headaches, tiredness, dizziness, and there is absolutely no sugar, no artificial ingredients, no coloring, et cetera. It is 100% healthy and dialed in. There is nothing like Element. And you guys can get a special deal over at drinklmnt.com slash Kyle. That is drinklmnt.com slash Kyle. All right. Last but not least, this week's show is brought to you by

Starting point is 00:08:25 Sports Betting Dime. And this last weekend, I don't know if you'll watch, but UFC 254 was just on. I remember when Habib first came in to train at AKA and I just started watching him run through all these seasoned veterans. I was like, damn, this guy's going to be special. He's, uh, it was unlike anything I'd ever seen the strength, the power, the stamina, the endurance, literally had never seen anything like that. I was like, all he needs to do is work on his jiu-jitsu and his striking. And of course he pan out years later, six years after I've retired and, you know, watching this event against Justin Gaethje, easily one of the best title defenses I've ever seen.

Starting point is 00:09:05 One of the most dominant. And of course he retires at the end of the fight. Just truly beautiful to watch. I really couldn't tell who was going to win that fight. As much as I love Habib and had trained with him, that was easily his hardest fight and he walked right through him. And if there was a place where I was going to look to see who to bet on and get really accurate data on who to pick for a fight, who to pick for a football game, who to pick throughout the season, I'm going to find that on one site and that's sportsbettingdime.com. If you watch sports and want to get the extra insight into the odds, this is the place to go.

Starting point is 00:09:40 And even though UFC 54, 254 has just passed us, there will be plenty of other big fights along the way that you can see well ahead of time with the most up-to-date matchup breakdowns and analysis to go out in the mixed martial arts hub and check it out at sportsbendingdime.com slash MMA or any other major sport. You're going to find that. So sportsbendingdime.com is where you're going to find odds analysis So sportsbettingdime.com is where you're going to find odds, analysis, and stories in the sports and entertainment world. Check them out. You can get into the analytics and finer details of sports betting using their futures trackers, which cover every major league and more. So you always know who has the best shot of taking home the title.

Starting point is 00:10:20 Beyond that, you can use their tools to see betting records that reveal every team's investment potential. They have hubs for all the major sports, including MMA and boxing, along with political odds updated on the regular. Now that's juicy because I got no clues winning this one. Head over to sportsbettingdime.com to check them out. Thank you guys for tuning in. Without further ado, my man eric godsey all right we're walking and rolling let's do it here we are joined by my man eric godsey in the comfortable upstairs living room. Can I get you a snooze, my friend? I got one.

Starting point is 00:11:09 Bueno. All right. The impetus, well, I've always liked having you come on after Fit for Service events because it helps me to refresh some of the medicine gained there. And we can dive into that perhaps, but something that you've been diving into a bit more recently. Well, I guess not recently, but since I've known you, you've been unpacking a lot of deep psychology and this,

Starting point is 00:11:39 this concept of the Damon. Yes. And it is a word that I can't get out of my head. I always hear the Matt Damon being repeated over and over again. And so I want to unpack this because you've explained it to me before, but I want to unpack it deeper. And then I want to get into the Red Book and I want to get into what you've been cleaning from the Black Books. Fuck yeah. So let's just dive in right there. Explain The Damon. Yeah. So, um, one of the most important ideas

Starting point is 00:12:06 that I've ever learned, I got from studying death psychology and it's the insight that your conscious mind is not the totality of what you are. And before I started using plant medicines and started really understanding dreams and doing this research, most people and most of my life, I implicitly, I implicitly assumed that the totality of my being was my conscious mind. So the thing that can see you right now, the thing that can talk and the thing that responds when you say my name, most people think that's the, that's what they are. Um, but once you start to study psychology, you very quickly learn that there are, there's a subconscious mind and the subconscious mind is like, you and I

Starting point is 00:12:53 are aware unconsciously of, um, everything that's happening in our body, the amount of living organisms in this room right now, vaguely what time of day it is, what the weather is outside. And your subconscious mind is anything that you could bring your conscious mind to right now, but you currently are not having in your conscious awareness. So for example, if I asked you, what does your left pinky toe feel like right now? Right before I said that it was not in your conscious awareness. Now it's in your conscious awareness. That's an example of the subconscious mind. The conscious mind is about like 1% of what you are. The subconscious mind, just to give people a rough relational understanding, is like 9% of what you are.

Starting point is 00:13:38 Then there's the truly unconscious mind, which is things that cannot be brought to consciousness at will. So your heartbeat is a part of your unconscious mind, which is things that cannot be brought to consciousness at will. So your heartbeat is a part of your unconscious mind. All of the trillions of cells reproducing and reacting and replicating and healing and dying, all part of the unconscious mind. The ego is the center of the conscious mind. There's this idea in depth psychology that there is a center personality to the unconscious mind. And people currently use the word like the higher self. In ancient Greece, they called it the daemon. And there's a myth in Plato's Republic called the myth of ear, E-R. And this is the birth of the idea of the daemon.

Starting point is 00:14:27 And the myth is essentially this. Souls choose to come into life to serve a specific function. The act of coming into a body is so violent that the soul forgets what it came here to do. But the soul is given a guide, and the guide is the daemon. And Socrates was dubbed the wisest man in Athens because he only listened to his daemon. And the idea of the daemon, the Arabics called it your genius, and the Christians call it your soul. And I think the Christians that got it call it your soul. And I think the Christians that got it call it your soul. And the idea is you came here to serve a specific function.

Starting point is 00:15:13 The Hindus called this your dharma. But when you come into a body, you forget. And one of the great tasks of your life is to remember. And the daemon is trying to do this for you. What's interesting, and this is an idea that is elucidated in Pinocchio with Jiminy Cricket, is that your daemon comes into the world almost like a baby. And it has to grow with you. And at first, because it's not honed, it can't guide you very well.

Starting point is 00:15:49 But as you grow, it grows with you and it gets better and better at guiding you. What's really interesting, and this is something that I feel called to do, is that I think most of the mental disorders that we have in the DSM are actually the different ways that the daemon will speak to you if you, the ego, ignore it. And so one of my fantasies is to rewrite the DSM as a guide to how to understand the messages of the daemon. What is the DSM? So the DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual. That is the most used book in the Western world to diagnose mental illnesses. And you can't get

Starting point is 00:16:33 paid by an insurance company unless you use the DSM to diagnose someone with something. An interesting thing about the DSM is it's something like 95% of the diagnosis in there have no biological basis, but that's a whole different conversation that we won't get into, um, on this podcast. But one of the things that I try to teach people is how to make contact with the daemon, how to understand the daemon. And this will be elucidated when we talk about the Red Book because it's a fascinating experience of one of the greatest psychological minds in the last 100 years trying to reclaim his daemon. And we can get into that when we get there. But dreams are one of the primary ways that the personality in the unconscious mind will try to speak to the

Starting point is 00:17:25 conscious mind and to understand dreams. Um, it takes some unpacking to do, but essentially we are evolved animals. And for most of our evolutionary history, the way we related to each other without language, like we only got language in the last 100,000 years-ish and in evolutionary time, it's been like we've had language for half an hour in the day that we've been alive. And we've related to each other through the felt sense in the body and visions, emotional-laden visions.

Starting point is 00:18:02 And that's been the primary way that we've communicated with each other for hundreds of thousands, for millions of years. And the parts of the psyche that dreams is the ancient animal body that doesn't have language, trying to communicate with the part of the ways that the Damien will try to talk to you. Synchronicities are one of the ways that the Damien will try to talk to you. And synchronicities are essentially when an internal event happens simultaneous with an external event that it cannot be explained away as coincidence. And a really stark example is I remember when I was like 21, I was walking around my neighborhood complex reading a book about psychology. And one of the quotes that I read as I turned onto a street, and I still have the book in my library, I have this page, I've marked it like crazy with a highlighter because of what happened. But the quote was

Starting point is 00:19:05 something along the lines of the way to walk the earth like a king is to cast golden apples for other people to eat and for you to eat your apple on your deathbed and to feel complete. And I'm walking through a Texas suburb and in the middle of the road is one of those red and orange or red and gold apples, and the part facing me was the golden part. So in the middle of the road, as I'm reading this quote, where there are no apple trees, there is a single apple in the middle of the road facing me. And back then, that was before I really got into plant medicines and I started to explore this stuff, and it fractured my rational mind. And I didn't know what it meant other than that it was a clear sign that there is something going on in the universe beyond what my rational mind can comprehend. And that was one of my big opening experiences to become the man that I am now. So that's an example of synchronicity.

Starting point is 00:20:06 The other way that the daemon will talk to you is through visions. And you can have visions in the hypnagogic state, and that's the state between sleeping and waking. You can have visions when you meditate. And a powerful way to have visions is to do psychedelics. And all of those are manifestations of the same part of you that dreams. But so the daemon is always trying to guide you. And the reason why I think the hero's journey is the best archetypical story to help people move through life is because it's a story about how to transform. And essentially what the daemon seeks to do is it seeks to kill you over and over and over again. So you wake up more and more to who you actually are, because the fact is each of us are born into the world and we have primary caretakers and our primary caretakers, most of us, they were unconscious and they were programmed by culture. And so the way that they interact with us

Starting point is 00:21:13 is to instill programs that aren't our true nature. And this is the idea of the archetypical ordinary world and how you reclaim your daemon is you have to quote unquote, kill your parents. And that's a psychological symbolic act. And this is why we had initiation rituals in every culture that had any level of complexity and development is that the children will get to a point as teenagers where they go through some type of experience where they are psychologically killed. So they're allowed to be reborn as individuals and no longer as sons or daughters. And always away from the parents as well. Always.

Starting point is 00:21:56 That cord is cut. Exactly. is so lacking in initiation rituals that the daemon has to serve and create subjective individual initiation rituals. And for me, what's really interesting is like, so the daemon, if you don't understand it and you ignore it, will feel like bad luck. It'll feel like injuries, accidents, and terrible fortune. But it's because it's trying to break you away from your false life to give you the chance to live your true life. And what's interesting is our current cultural story about what it means to be a human and how you're supposed to feel is that if you start to feel that breaking away, you should take medication. And the medication at best numbs the daemon trying to break you away from your false life. Like, I read a quote, and it's,

Starting point is 00:23:06 if your doctor doesn't ask you what your diet is like, what your sleep is like, what your relationships are like, what your work satisfaction life is like, and whether or not you feel connected to a community and to your calling, before they give you an antidepressant, they're not a doctor, they're a drug dealer. And one of the big reframes that I feel that our culture would benefit deeply from is to understand the daemon and that

Starting point is 00:23:34 it is here to kill you. So you have an opportunity to actually live. And my deepest, like from studying psychology for 10 years now, what I have found to be the greatest healers are the ones that teach the individual how to begin to listen to the whisper and sight of them that then becomes their psychotherapist for the rest of their life. And that any type of healer who relates to you in a way where you are dependent upon them, they're just replaying the unconscious mother or father for you.

Starting point is 00:24:17 And that the true calling is when the ego learns how to bow to the daemon inside of themselves. And then the daemon will guide you. And you will get call after call to do the scary thing that if you truly said yes to would kill some old part of you that no longer serves your becoming. And I really think that the way to alchemize almost any chronic biological illness and almost all mental disorders is to learn how to listen to the daemon and then live the life that it's asking you to live. That's fucking fire. I've had like a flood of downloads just popping in my head.

Starting point is 00:25:03 Number one, Paul Cech, and we'll link to this in the show notes, please, Jose. Paul Cech's series on the pain teacher that he's done, how the pain teacher starts with a whisper, then it knocks on the door, then it'll kick the fucking door down and push pause on your life through car accident or falling off a horse or tearing your ACL playing slow pitch softball just to get you to pause and reflect and listen. And the pain teacher is the Damon. And the drug dealer comment about a doctor, I had, I'm trying to remember the doctor's name. He's one of the oldest ketamine, ketamine, uh, providing doctors, psychotherapists in the States. He was born in Mexico. Um, phenomenal guy, but he had me take four hours, which is surveys, which asked all those questions.

Starting point is 00:25:54 And I've, I've sent, give people a look at my insides. I've seen psychologists since I was seven years old. Yeah. Seven years old was my first, uh, psychologist. And I saw him a bunch. I saw him a bunch around when I tried to kill myself after college. And at every turn, no one ever dove into that stuff. This guy did before he saw me.

Starting point is 00:26:17 And we're just going to do a podcast and talk about the benefits of ketamine. And he had me take four hours worth of surveys. Like, here, we'll treat you like a patient. You're not going to do ketamine, but'll just show you like how we do things here right and then we analyzed the brain and we went through a whole ton of shit and i was like holy shit like this is cool because it's it's a new way and he's dialed in but he's one of a fraction of my experience and one of an even smaller fraction in the experience of what most people get when they go to western medicine treatment standard of care.

Starting point is 00:26:46 Yep. That just blows me the fuck away. So there's, I love to try to understand things through a Jungian standpoint. And one of Jung's ideas is that ions are the gods of a time and the gods of any time are the master stories of that culture. And a story, if you believe it, it possesses you. And if you believe it, it continues to stay immortal. And so if you think about what a God is, if you worship it, it stays alive and a powerful God will possess you. Those are what stories do. And I believe that our current story around mental health. So the most, one of the most

Starting point is 00:27:33 important roles of a tribe are the storytellers and the book that fucking changed my life as a child. And I didn't even understand it was the giver. Are you familiar with the story? No, it's so good. Uh, it's a book that I think I read in like sixth grade, but basically there's this utopia in order for the utopia to exist. There is one old man who has to hold all of the memories of the real world of war and rape and like he has to hold all the memories of the shadows so the people can live basically in an unconscious bliss and the story is told that um each year all the children are given whatever their role will be in the utopia and the main character is this young boy who he's chosen to be the next giver and so he he goes to this old man, and this old man slowly through touch

Starting point is 00:28:26 imbues him with memories. And what you learn through reading the book is like no one can see color. No one can feel any emotion other than this like pacified okayness. And once this kid goes to the giver, the first memory he's given is a memory of snow and he and he can feel the like coldness of the snow he can see the whites and the blue

Starting point is 00:28:52 and he's going down like a sled ride and it's this amazing experience but then when he comes back the next day he's given his first memory of like a gunshot or of like a man dying in war. And he's completely rattled. Anyways, that's one of our current stories about what it means to be a human and what you should be. They're no longer told by elders. They're told by corporations. And corporations are entities that have the same program as cancer,

Starting point is 00:29:24 which is our highest goal is to grow. Not for why, not for the good of the organism, which is the planet. It's simply to grow. And we are in a healthcare system where it's not about healing you. Because the people telling the stories about what healthcare is are not healers. They're corporations. And they need to stay alive. And so for them to stay alive,

Starting point is 00:29:48 you being healed, they lose a customer. But if they can manage your symptoms, if they can manage your numbness for 60 years, they get to stay alive. And so our current story about what it means to be healthy is not to be healed. It's to be managed. So we have a managed care system, not a healthcare system. And your experience is like most people's experience. Like

Starting point is 00:30:14 I read a statistic and it's something like 85% of psychiatric medication prescriptions are written by general practitioners, not psychiatrists. And general practitioners tend to not have the training or the time or the honed intuition to even think to ask those questions. And we don't need to get into it, but even the way psychiatrists are trained because of corruption that has happened in the 80s. Most of them aren't even trained to question the efficacy of prescription pills. They're given textbooks, huge thousand-page textbooks on all the different types of drugs. So they have to memorize what all these drugs are, how they interact with each other, what you would—

Starting point is 00:31:03 so they're not even given the idea to question the efficacy. They're just given two years worth of study memorizing all these different drugs. And so the idea that maybe this isn't the best way to heal people, like, it invalidates the years of sacrifice that they've had to put in to even learn this knowledge. And so it's, we have priests who have been taught a certain religion and they are fucking bound in it and bound by it. But the beautiful thing is everyone has a daemon and the daemon is seeking to bring you to your true calling. And so there are healers out there like that man that you met who are slowly changing the tide. And the beautiful thing is we want to heal. And so the people who are doing it well, there's a word of mouth that spreads. And I personally see, and I, you know, I, it's visceral when we're at fit for service there is a revolution happening and it's quiet right now

Starting point is 00:32:06 and one of my calls is to tell its story and like there is a revolution happening in how to heal because it's working and if it's working people are going to talk about it and the people who see the people who are being transformed by it are going to see that there's something new possible and they're going to get curious and it's going to grow fuck yeah brother it's growing right now yeah that's making me think of dr patino was the name of the um mexican-american doctor i went and saw down in chandler arizona so if people want to backtrack to that podcast we'll link to that in the show notes, please, Jose. Outside of that, the revolution, I think about that just with the psychedelic renaissance and people really catching on to the power of these medicines, but then what does that actually do? Well,

Starting point is 00:32:58 of all of the things that I've been gifted with from my downloads and experience with medicines, the biggest ones came first. The biggest one was an understanding that I do have a soul and that I'm not my body. Right. First time I did ayahuasca, I was like, holy shit, that's real. And it's viscerally real. Right. Like Dennis McKenna says, religion can teach you about God, but it doesn't give you the direct experience of God.

Starting point is 00:33:26 And so to have the direct experience of the God within, the daemon, absolutely blows me out of the water. The direct experience of everything as consciousness, animism, whatever soul I have is within everything, the fiber of everything. Really, those are the things we tell you about on the podcast, but until you know it for yourself, it's potentially unknowable. Right. It's not transmissible through language. It's only transmissible through experience. And that's one of the things that we're learning with Fit for Service is the most powerful thing that we can do for people is to create containers for them to have experiential practices unfolded for them. There's a great idea in linguistics called the map is not the territory. All language are maps that attempt to articulate territory. Territory is the felt experience. And for me, and Jung has this quote that I wish, I need to get it etched on my heart because it's so important. But he says, anyone who wants to understand psychology cannot learn it in books or libraries or classrooms.

Starting point is 00:34:39 The student of psychology has to go to the brothels, has to go to the dark forests where the dancing and the firelight are, have to go into the insane asylums and sit at the foot of the insane, that the true student of psychology has to live it and cannot read it. And I tried to understand psychology for like seven years through just reading it. And then once I found psychedelics, because my calling is to understand the human psyche, I knew that it would be a disservice to my soul not to explore altered realms of consciousness. And one of the things that ayahuasca showed me viscerally clearly is that psyche is in everything. Everything. Most of us, especially people who have a strong intellect

Starting point is 00:35:33 that grew up in Western culture, we have been conditioned to believe that the fundamental unit of reality is matter, that we live in a physical universe first. And once the physical universe gets complex enough, it creates psyche. It's the opposite, man. It's psyche first.

Starting point is 00:35:54 And from psyche comes matter. And then matter can get complex enough where it can then witness psyche that was there first and like one of the things that is uh tragic but is also being healed in this revolution is we are of the earth but we are now in a culture where most of us live inside of boxes inside of boxes inside, inside of boxes, with each box disconnecting us further from the rhythm of nature. So all the boxes are made of nature. So a city is a box. It's a cultural construct to keep out the rhythm and the dynamicism of nature. It's to keep out the floods and the thunderstorms and the earthquakes and the dynamicism of nature. It's to keep out the floods and the thunderstorms

Starting point is 00:36:47 and the earthquakes and the fires. And then inside of every city, there are buildings. That's a box inside of a box. And that's to keep out the environment even more. And then we live inside of rooms, inside of buildings, inside of cities. And then most of us look inside of screens, inside of rooms, inside of cities. And then most of us look inside of screens, inside of rooms, inside of cities. And each of these are stagnant layers disconnecting us from the rhythm of nature. And one of the really interesting things about studying mental illness is that the only animals other than us that display mental disorders are domesticated animals in zoos.

Starting point is 00:37:27 And what is an animal in a zoo? It's an animal that has been taken out of the rhythm of the environment that it was born into and put inside of a box. And there's a really interesting list of the different ways different mammals will start to show disorders in the same way that we have disorders but it's only when they're in zoos no natural animal that we have recorded anthropological or ethological evidence of displays any of these disorders and one of the things that psychedelics make so viscerally clear is that there is a part of us that wants to be on the land, that wants to feel the wind, that wants to just be in rapture looking at be inside of a house. I fucking want to be under the stars. And I think that a part of the revolution is bringing our civilization into coherence and resonance with the rhythm of nature. And it's also not to, um, idolize nature because nature will fucking destroy us if we aren't adaptive. And it's the reason why we've created technology.

Starting point is 00:38:46 You know, like the first technology was likely a monkey grabbing a stick to reach a higher fruit. You know, and if it wasn't able to do that, it might have died. And then the first big revolution was fire. Like we used fire to begin to tame nature. Like it allowed us to see at night. And it allowed us to clear brush and to cook nature. Like it allowed us to see at night and it allowed us to clear brush and to cook food. And so this is something that you and I have talked about, but all of this is nature. But a lot of the technology that we've created, which all comes from the earth,

Starting point is 00:39:18 we've used it to disconnect us from the rhythm of nature. A really interesting idea that I've just been exposed to that kind of blew my mind is most indigenous cultures and like the ancient Egyptian cultures, their gods are half animal, half man. But when you start to look at the core hero myths in Western mythology, they're humans that kill and domesticate animals. And this is read as a symbolic manifestation of us disconnecting our mind from our body, disconnecting intellect from nature, and that that's the core of Western civilization. And that one of the calls of the revolution is to connect our heads back to our bodies. Like we are animals first, man. Thinking intellect things second.

Starting point is 00:40:11 Yeah, that brings up a ton for me. I'm thinking about the Hopi prophecy, which I think I've mentioned before on this podcast. I'm going to have Dr. Will Tegel on, you know, and he, one of the things he talks about in his book, Walking with Bears, which I've mentioned before is this this idea of ecofields. As when we're in our box, we're disconnected through obviously EMF and a number of other things. But when we're in nature long enough, we find co-resonance with that field. And that is the land of great intelligence, greater intelligence than us alone.

Starting point is 00:40:41 That's the land of deeper connection. That's the land of non-separation in their interconnectivity um but you know on his property he has a painting of the Hopi prophecy repainted on a rock and for those that don't know there's I think it's you know obviously not to spec but there's four people on the bottom that are closest to the earth at earth level. And they walk across on a straight line to usher in the fifth stage of human consciousness, the fifth stage of humanity above them. There's a larger group, maybe seven humans with their heads separated from their body. And they go on a trajectory forward, then zigzag upwards and

Starting point is 00:41:21 then leave the circle. Now that can be interpreted a number of ways they die they go out with fucking elon musk to mars or um they simply leave the sacred hoop right the connection of we are a part of the all wow and and who knows what that looks like if they remain here but it's not the masses that carry on this next stage of human consciousness. And already, if we're talking about these things, our heads are connected to our bodies. Already, if you're doing healing work with different medicines and reconnecting yourself to the land and learning different ways to grow your own food or voting with your dollar with local ranchers and organic farming practices, any of these things draw us closer to that remembering of how to live in accordance with the all.

Starting point is 00:42:12 However that comes to us. It's not like you just, nobody fucking does ayahuasca once and then wakes up and says, I got it, bro. Some would like to believe so. Yeah. But it's a series of unfoldings. Right. And like my brother Carlos told me, you know, it's peeling the layer of an onion. Each time you go, you get a little closer to the center, but it's an infinite onion. You know, that infinite nature of that. And I'm going to have Paul check on next. We're going to really dive into this. A lot on consciousness is uncovered in the book that he told me to get, Stalking the Wild Pendulum by Ishtak Bentov. And to your point, psyche being first, there's no two ways about that.

Starting point is 00:42:54 We understand that on a visceral level within plant medicines, but even explained by this brilliant guy who knew, the book was written in the 70s. He's since passed, but the nature of infinite reality and how that starts. And even if we look through other religions, you know, like Taoism, you know, and the unspeakable land of the Tao, the unmanifest of infinite possibility, infinite probability, and total darkness, the void, all possibility exists within there. That is a conscious thing. Consciousness exists there unmanifest. Intelligence exists there unmanifest. And then we bring it into the world of form in the world of 10,000 things where things are manifest. Everything in this world has intelligence. Everything in this world has psyche, but it was birthed from the formless, which still in its formlessness contained intelligence and psyche and awareness.

Starting point is 00:43:50 That was the thing that gave birth to it all. And that's super visceral for me in plant medicine experiences and even talking about creation. We've been talking about that over the week for Fit for Service, the two of us and Aubrey. And in the book, Lizards Eat Butterflies, we just had Dr. David E. Martin on and his book is phenomenal, but he unpacks all the ways we're programmed and he even goes into creation itself. And he's like, the concept of a fallen angel or a young soul is likely complete bullshit because this is infinite. And Ishtak Bentov talks about that, a black hole that brings things back to singularity, total evisceration. On the opposite end of that, speculation would be a white hole that births a new universe that looks like the Big Bang.

Starting point is 00:44:40 And we have at the center of each galaxy each galaxy a black hole there's an infinite number of those just within our own universe so this is ongoing infinite reality in form infinite reality in formless and that is the infinite unfolding and one of the things that came through to me with ketamine was that there the infinite nature of reality is the infinite nature of self. And know thyself is not just for us. It is for God itself to know thyself. Through all of our infinite expressions of God in form and formlessness. It is the constant evolution of consciousness that is taking place

Starting point is 00:45:21 and has always been taking place and will always be taking place and that that to me is like uh i mean it's a fucking lot to to chew on but it's like it resonates very strongly the more i learn about these things and the more beautiful works that i read from david martin or ishtek bent off and it's it really does resonate. But I digress, so continue on, please, brother. Yeah, so another way to approach this that's very interesting is if you really study what's called phenomenology, and that's a field or a branch of philosophy that's about studying experience itself, like the fact that we experience.

Starting point is 00:46:02 And when you take... So i took a couple of years to really dive into how do we perceive experience and one of the things to connect to is your experience of the world is bound by your body and your body has evolved to organize the infinite swirl of atoms into evolutionarily adaptive categories for your body to act in a way where it can survive long enough to reproduce and what i'm getting at is the fact whatever object is in front of you right now that object is a useful illusion that your consciousness creates

Starting point is 00:46:54 so that you can act through your body adaptively and what plant medicines can do and other techniques can do this too is it can inhibit the programs that create the illusions. And then you can see the thing that's behind the illusion. So, for example, if there's a cup in front of you, the truth of that cup, and we already know this through physics, is that it's 99.99% empty space and that if you removed the temporal boundary that your body creates like we can only perceive things that fit into our temporal existence and we only perceive things that fit into our spatial condition that our body creates that the truth of that cup is that if you weren't bounded by time

Starting point is 00:47:46 you would be able to see that the atoms of it are in this like clouded tunnel that begin at the big bang and extend out infinitely into time but because you're human and you need to be able to apprehend things that your hand can fit into. You see cup. And that the nature of how consciousness arose through you is when you were an infant, your body is brand new. It hasn't created the constructs that you need to be an adaptive body. And so very likely, you know, a four day year old baby only sees this like weird cloud of energy that vaguely corresponds to there's this intelligence that's taking care of me. That's mom and that's dad. It can perceive nothing else. And so like when you do something like 5meo you go back to that primordial consciousness that because you're alive the essence of that consciousness is that it is conscious and

Starting point is 00:48:54 intelligent but there's no form yet and that that actually mirrors the development of how we perceive reality itself and that one of the tools to remember that there is something behind everything else is something like 5-MeO or a high dose of mushrooms or ayahuasca is that you are God in the sense that you bring consciousness to everything. And you are literally on a technical level that if you want to spend two years studying the technicalities of this, you are creating your reality. And at least half of the created reality that you're perceiving has been constructed by culture.

Starting point is 00:49:45 And so one of the invitations is, how much of that can you play with? And can you use to bring yourself into a way of being that is healing as opposed to destroying both you and the planet, the spaceship that we all share? Yeah. David talks about that. Lizards eat butterflies. Everybody in the conscious movement and healing movement is so obsessed with butterflies. The book is designed to piss people off and really break through beliefs, and not to replace it with a different belief,

Starting point is 00:50:19 but to replace it with wonder and awe and respect and reverence. And that's probably a poor way of explaining it. But this idea that we're just in our caterpillar phase, we're fucking consuming everything and wreaking havoc. And then now I'm in my chrysalis phase and I'm going to come back out a beautiful butterfly. And he's like, it's not that at all. It's really not. But to the point of our ability to affect our lives, we have to look back within and take ownership over what we've created, take ownership over what everything that we experience has been brought to us in large part, at least with consent in saying yes to that. All the trauma, all of the victim,

Starting point is 00:51:06 all of the everything that we've experienced on some level, there was an agreement. And people might say, fuck no, I didn't agree to get raped or fuck no, I didn't agree to get bombed or any of those things. And to their point, I'll agree with that. But at the same time, the greater experience of our lives, with the exception of a few moments, is that we very much have agreements in place based on our programs that allow us to experience our lived experience. And as soon as we take ownership of that and accountability, the second we can then say, all right, I actually am steering the ship. What do I want to do now? And I've had tons of experiences on medicines where that was the rebirth. How do I wish to live now? What needs to be weeded out of my garden so that I can live in a different way, so that I can feel more complete and that I can be not only in my fullness, but that that fullness will outpour into everything that I touch, right?

Starting point is 00:52:04 The fit for, part of that I touch, right? The fit for, part of fit for service, right? How do I get myself fit for so my cup overflows into everything that I touch? And then truly to be of service, not only, not at the expense of self, with self in mind, because there's no separation, right? So to give some nuance to the like bombing and raping thing is that we have instincts in our body for how to respond to a predator and a bomb and a rap that we actually, that are not programmed in us by culture and are also not of our will and their instincts. And the three instincts that happen when you're in the presence of an extreme threat is the first one is called the orienting reflex. And all mammals do this. So like I was saying earlier, your psyche is actively creating your environment based off of the stimuluses it's getting from the environment. And it creates an expectation

Starting point is 00:53:12 of what the next moment should be. And if anything happens in your environment that doesn't fit the expectation, that's technically an anomaly. And every mammal on the planet responds to anomaly in the same way we shift our eyes towards it we widen our eyes to take in more visual information we might slightly crouch or constrict our body to anticipate action and we assess whether or not it's a threat if it's not a threat we will tend to do what's called the exploratory reflex, which means that we'll go explore the thing. If it's a threat, then we enter into the next stage, which is the fight, flight, or freeze response. And depending on how we assess the anomaly, we will either try to fight it, so that's to resist it in some way. We will try to run from it.

Starting point is 00:54:02 And if we're completely overwhelmed, we will freeze. And the freeze response is an evolutionary instinct that all prey animals have learned. And there's adaptive reasons why we do this. And one of the things is that it disassociates us from our body temporarily so we don't feel pain. Trauma is incurred when the fight or flight or freeze response is not completed. So if you watch a gazelle, if it's captured by a lion, it will go into rigor mortis and it will look dead, but it's not dead. And if the lion like breaks its attention for even a moment, the gazelle will sprint away. And there's recordings on YouTube of this. Once the gazelle is safe, the gazelle will have a seizure. It will tremble and shake

Starting point is 00:54:52 and move out that powerful instinctual energy that froze it. And then it goes along its day and it's not traumatized. Humans, for some specific reasons, tend to not do that last part, tend to not discharge the instinct. And so then their animal body is stuck in the fight, flight, or freeze response, which tells the animal body, you are constantly in the presence of a life-threatening predator. And this causes most of the symptoms that we now understand as ptsd claim how you heal that is you essentially have to get your body into a space where it feels safe where you allow yourself to enter into the discharge and the discharge will likely result in tremoring and seizing. And what's wild is from studying this research on trauma, it's often accompanied with visions, with inner images of you either symbolically

Starting point is 00:55:56 or literally completing whatever the adaptive action would have been in the presence of the trauma. So for example, if it's a bomb explosion, you might actually see as you're trembling and the way that you would tremble is if the bomb happened on the right side of your body, maybe like the whole right side of your body will start to like twitch in your head because that's the protective posture the body wanted to take in the presence of the explosion. And while you're removing and discharging that energy, you might have an inner vision of diving out of the way, or it could be as crazy as like you stop the bomb with your mind and send it away. And that that serves as a symbolic

Starting point is 00:56:37 completing of the adaptive action that then gives you the ability to reclaim your agency or your choice or your responsibility. And so I feel called to offer that caveat that your response to a traumatic situation is not your choice. It's an instinct. But it's if you allow the instinct to move through you. And again, because we're so disconnected from our bodies, when we go through a traumatic experience, like if it's a rape, you might have chronic abdomen pain that you go then get painkillers for. And what that does is that disconnects the head from the body. It's suppressing the symptoms. And one of the best healing modalities for this type of trauma

Starting point is 00:57:27 is called somatic experiencing that teaches you how to safely allow yourself to not run away from or resist the sensation in the body. And if you simply just bring your awareness to the felt experience of the abdominal pain and you feel safe and you are guided by someone who makes you feel safe, that sensation will transform and it might transform into your leg shaking. And as your leg shaking, your memory will go back to that experience where it's happening. But while

Starting point is 00:57:59 you're experiencing that, the daemon inside of you might spontaneously offer images of you. Like there's a story that I read where a woman was raped and that while her body was shaking and she was processing the rape memory, her daemon instinctually was also at the same time providing this image of when she was a young girl and she was out in a park and she was looking at a tree and she felt completely like safe and in love with the experience and that it was juxtapositioning these two memories at the same time to almost help integrate it and heal it. And this goes to your point that trauma when healed gives people back their body, which gives them back their felt sense of agency, which then allows them to begin to take responsibility from this moment.

Starting point is 00:58:52 That thing happened to me. What can I do now in my life to make it more beautiful? And what's not talked about, man, is most people who go through trauma, something like 80% of them experience what's called post-traumatic growth where the response from the trauma actually makes their life better and it's only a smaller subset that go through ptsd but that all ptsd can be healed to lead to post-traumatic growth and that's why I think the symbol of the butterfly can be incredibly useful to help people understand that if you, trauma is bringing you into a cocoon, it's constricting you like technically, instinctually, animally, somatically. And that if it is allowed to go through the process which means you allow yourself

Starting point is 00:59:47 to be completely dissolved in the cocoon you can be liberated in a way where you are now more than you were before but our current cultural story is if you're in a cocoon we're going to give you things to keep the cocoon closed because you're not supposed to feel the discomfort of breaking through and most people are walking around in cocoons yeah we have numbing agents at every corner on the street we've got our phones we've got anything to distract us and pull us out of feeling out of our awareness of what's going on inside. And look, I'm speaking, you know, I did 5-MEO recently and the Sonoran Desert Toad and it was just a meditative dose. And I was made viscerally aware of my avoid side of my leg compensating for the fact that I had, since Wolf's birth, tried to work out and lift weights through the injury as opposed to doing yoga and things that would open my hips and added strength, but wasn't the sole focus of what I do

Starting point is 01:01:07 in the, I guess, in the desire for aesthetics, you know, the desire to look the way that I look, as opposed to like really sitting with this, like, so what if I don't burn as many fucking calories doing yoga as I do when I'm working out or lifting weights? But to prioritize my tuning fork, that is my body, my ability to be in resonance and be guided by my daemon, be guided by intuition, as opposed to needing to think and solve things with the monkey mind, that the body directly affects that ability, one's ability to receive downloads in normal waking consciousness or through our dreams, based on this low to mid to high level of frequency going on in the background, that background noise of being in pain. So that's been super fresh for me. And I don't know exactly where I was going with it, but, um, you know, as you were talking about this thing, if people want to learn more, uh, zebra, why zebras don't get ulcers is fantastic by Robert

Starting point is 01:02:09 Sapolsky. Um, and the body keeps score. And I know, I know you have been really taking a deep dive into trauma where, what are some other places people can check out in terms of really taking a deep dive into looking at this and then we and then we'll move into the red book and the black books. All of Peter Levine's books, so Waking the Tiger and The Whisper Within are the two primary books on how to heal what's called shock trauma, and that's classic PTSD. And then there's a book called Complex PTSD by Pete, I believe it's Pete Walker. And that's, so there's two main forms of PTSD.

Starting point is 01:02:52 There's shock trauma, and that's the type that we just talked about. And there's developmental trauma, which is a very different type of trauma, which is where a primary caretaker repeatedly traumatizes you. And that creates a very different type of ptsd that's much more complex to heal and so the book for that is complex ptsd by pete walker and then uh peter levine's two books are very good for shock trauma i i remember your excitement when the red book came out you were you were you were there is a glow uh you've been obviously drawn to jung uh since long before we met and you've helped me unpack a lot because i i attempted to read man and his symbols

Starting point is 01:03:33 back in the day and i was like i just don't know it lacked i knew of its importance but it lacked the draw and i knew of its importance for a number of reasons number one in our conversations and really seeing your level of understanding of psychology and the human experience and your age being 10 years younger than me i was like okay there's something here and then of course paul check who who i'm going to podcast with later today has his complete works and often refers to him so it's definitely somebody i want to dive into but um i saw the red book over at her homie cal's spot and um i was like this is a fucking this is a beast of a book man and his symbols is a little book and if i chicken shitted out of that what makes you think that fucking i'm

Starting point is 01:04:16 gonna dive into the red book but the more you tell me about it the more i i do feel called to dive into this so let's dive into this and then we'll talk about the black book after. Okay. So Carl Jung is the man that allowed, that bridged my rational mind to spirituality and brought me to psychedelics, brought me to understanding, you know, that I'm not just my conscious mind. And, you know, like one of the things that we talked about is the first time that I did

Starting point is 01:04:44 ayahuasca, I got so much out of it because of my work with Jung and dreams and understanding the unconscious and understanding how it speaks to us in dreams, because the psychedelic experience is of the same place as the part of you that dreams and understanding how to interpret dreams has allowed me to interact with the psychedelic space far beyond where I should be at at my age. And so it's been one of the greatest tools that I've ever found. So Carl Jung was a doctor that mainly worked with schizophrenics at the beginning of his life and he's also the dude who invented the association test which is now one of the like pillars and how psychology will try to understand um the unconscious mind and he eventually found freud and freud kind of dubbed him the heir apparent of psychoanalysis and jung um wrote a book when he was 33, I believe, called like Libido and Its Transformations, which is actually the birth of the idea of the hero's journey that Joseph Campbell read to then create Hero with a Thousand Faces.

Starting point is 01:05:54 Jung brought the idea of the hero's journey to us. Most people only understand it through Joseph Campbell, but Joseph Campbell got it wholesale from Carl Jung. And when he wrote that book, um, it basically caused him and Freud to break up because, uh, Freud thought that the libido, like the energy moving through you was all about sex. And Jung actually has this great quote and he was like, um, my mother was ugly. And it was, it was this massive, like what he meant by that was Freud had a young attractive mother and Freud's mother interacted with Freud in a way where that was like the primary way still have libido and it moves through me primarily spiritually anyways there's actually a book that you can get on amazon which are the letters between freud and young when they were like breaking up and it's really funny to see the two titans of modern psychology kind of acting like teenagers like being like snarky and shit with each other but so um after this happened, Jung,

Starting point is 01:07:05 and this was just a couple of years before World War I, Jung began having a psychotic break. He started having visions and auditory hallucinations that he hid from the people in his life. And he was still able to like be a doctor during the day, but every night he would, he intuitively understood, I need to talk to these things. I need to interact with these things. And so he began this work of writing down the dialogue that he would have with these voices and began painting the pictures of the hallucinations that he was seeing. And this lasted for four years and it rocked him. He truly thought he was going insane. And in hindsight, the reason it started was he was having premonition-like visions of the coming of World War I. And he thought that these visions

Starting point is 01:08:01 were symbols of his psyche being destroyed because he kept seeing this vision of this great flood of like death wash over Europe and like smash against the Swiss Alps but not cross the mountains of the Swiss Alps. And he interpreted that as his psyche was showing him, you're about to be destroyed. It's only in hindsight that he deduced that he was actually having visions for the collective psyche of the war that was coming. But anyways, for four years, he wrote these dialogues out and painted these pictures and he felt possessed that what he was doing was he was reclaiming his soul from the world. And what he was doing is he was reclaiming his daemon from the ordinary world and the programs of culture that were given to him. And he put them all into this beautiful book. And this book in my entire fucking life. And he was afraid that it would make him seem insane. And so he didn't publish it his entire life. And he wrote in his will that it couldn't be published until 50 years after he died. But all of his major psychological insights

Starting point is 01:09:23 that we remember him for came from those four years of that psychosis. So for those four years, he worked on this book. And for the next 50 years of his life, he worked to try to articulate it into a scientific psychological language that became his idea of the collective unconscious. Synchronicity, introvert and extrovert, the four psychological types, which is thinking, feeling, sensation, and intuition, the idea of the anima and the animus and the higher self and the shadow. All of those ideas came from this psychosis. And this fits into perfectly everything that we've been talking about. In our culture, when you start to have a psychotic, a quote-unquote psychotic break, what do we do? We numb you, and we tell you the story that you're broken and that this is an illness.

Starting point is 01:10:16 What he did was he chose to see it as maybe this is something that's trying to teach me, and so he began this process of talking to them. And the Red Book was released, I believe, 10 years ago, and is the most incredible book I've ever seen. And I posted some of the drawings from the Red Book on my Instagram yesterday. They straight up look like ayahuasca visions, like 100%. And as far as we know, he didn't do ayahuasca. Now what's interesting, and this will get us into the black books. So the black books were just published like 10 days ago. These were the unrefined journals that he started with that then from the black books, he made the red book. And so the black books are even more raw than the red book. And one of the things he mentions

Starting point is 01:11:13 in the first black book is that what he was doing was like doing peyote experiments. And so that's the first time I've ever seen in writing evidence that he may have done peyote when he came to America and went to Taos, Arizona. Is it New Mexico? Right. Yeah. I had heard that he had worked with Quanah Parker from Dr. Will Tagle. Right. And I don't know that he, I think he mentions it lightly in Walking with Bears bears but in person um yeah he he says there's there's no there's zero question that they worked together with beauty so uh the one of the titans of psychology had a psychotic break that we would call schizophrenia he worked with it like it was

Starting point is 01:12:02 a sacred task from his soul trying to talk to him. He had dialogues with the voices. He painted the visions. And after a couple of years, the quote-unquote illness left him. And the seed of those four years bore fruit that became all of his most significant psychological insights that we still talk about today. And so one of the things that the red book is an example of is this new story about what it means to heal. What if the things that are happening to you are messages to guide you as opposed to symptoms that you are a broken machine? And the black books really get into the core of what he was trying to do and you know i fucking talked to you about it every day when we were in um

Starting point is 01:12:52 sedona for fit for service but like he was a hundred years ahead of his time he was trying to give birth to a new relit to a new religion where he was trying to alchemize and synthesize the Christian God with the Christian devil to make a new God that he called Abrax, which is a old Gnostic God that he tried to rearticulate also what people don't motherfucking talk about is my boy young was in this weird open relationship but he didn't have the language for an open relationship but he had his wife and then he had this muse woman named tony wolf who was essentially like his main it's interesting but that his love affair with tony wolf was actually the thing that angered his daemon enough to make his daemon like attack him and the idea here is most people will project their daemon onto the person they fall in love with and there's a lot of technical reasons for why that is but um we are most likely to get furthest from our subjective personal understanding of our soul when we're madly in love with someone else and we're the most likely to move away from our dharma

Starting point is 01:14:18 and from what our soul is asking us to do by projecting our soul onto the loved one and then trying to be the person we think the loved one wants us to be. And Toni Wolfe in her journals talks about like, it's really funny, but it's like, she basically says like, I made Jung who he is. I'm the one who made him famous. I'm the one that stirred him up in such a way that created this experience. I helped to guide him through this experience. And now he's famous, you know, and I'm a footnote to history. And one of the things that Jung talks about in the black books is he sees that a part of this new religion is a new understanding of human relationships he doesn't say it he doesn't articulate it specifically but it seems like he was hinting at like there are other ways

Starting point is 01:15:12 to love than just the classic marriage it brings up a lot for me yeah it is it is funny too because when you say weird he was in this weird open relationship it's like aren't they all they're all fucking weird they're all weird because they just go away from anything it's so not standard but uh yet one of the books that i that my damon forced me to read like just top of the list and i'll read it with Tosh, whether she wants to do it or not. Thankfully she did. But we read a chapter a day of mastery of love. And we would talk after switching off every couple of paragraphs at the end of the chapter about what was resonating with us, what was not, if we were in alignment already with

Starting point is 01:15:58 that chapter or if we had work to do with it. And one of the concepts that Don McGrill Ruiz talks about in that book is one of the core wounds in relationship is to place the power of my love in the arms of another, is to attribute the daemon onto somebody else, right? Like that is exactly what he's talking about. So as you mentioned that, that becomes Jung's understanding. That's exactly what Don Miguel Ruiz is saying. And any relationship will fail when you do that. 100%. Without question. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:31 One of the most powerful books that I've read in the last year about relationships is called We by Robert Johnson. And Robert Johnson is a Jungian. And the main thrust that he articulates is all of us have a will to spirituality and religion served as a container for us to project the spiritual part of us onto this container to interact with it. Once rationalism came and it kind of killed the containers and Nietzsche's famous quote, God is dead and we have killed him, it destroyed the container that could hold the projection. That doesn't make the archetype in

Starting point is 01:17:11 us go away. It just has to find a new place to project. And in Western culture, the new place for us to project the sacred was onto our romantic love. And he documents the history that romantic love is a specifically Western idea that arose from the troubadours and chivalry. And that what we do is when we fall in love, when you first meet someone and you feel that you're in love with them, you have no idea who they are. The reason you feel in love with them is because you're projecting your inner fantasy of the ideal other, your daemon, onto them. And the people that we fall in love with are people who are able to hold that projection at the beginning. And then you have what's called, you know, new relationship energy or the limerence phase where they feel like they are perfect. And you just want to be around them and drink them up all

Starting point is 01:18:05 day every day you think about them all day you love them more than you love anything in life and if you're unconscious after about 18 months you feel like you've fallen out of love with them that they're not who you thought they were but what happens is you finally have been around them enough to begin to see the human behind the projection of your daemon. And unconscious people, when they feel that, they think that they have fallen out of love and they'll go find some new person to project their daemon onto. And they just go on this fucking search where they're just chasing their reflection in people and they're just leaving a wake of destroyed bodies.

Starting point is 01:18:46 Also what's interesting is there's a type of person who becomes addicted to being the projection of the anima or the animus. And these are what Jung would call anima women or animus men. And these are the playboys and the playgirls that are constantly seeking to project themselves in a way to catch people's projections because that makes them feel most alive. And those are sirens. Those are slippery people who are so disconnected from their daemon that they have to go eat the mana of other people's projections. And the call to a real relationship is when you feel that you're quote unquote falling out of love is to recognize that's actually the feeling of the opportunity to actually begin to love the human. Can you love the way they make coffee in the morning? Can you love the way that they, you know, don't put away their

Starting point is 01:19:45 dishes? Like, can you learn to love the mundane everyday part of them? And that that's the opportunity to begin to actually love somebody. That's fire. Yeah. I'm not going to get into specifics because I'm speaking to my wife about Tosh and she's perfect. But, but that, that, that greater understanding of, can I love all of her as she is right now without expectation of change, you know, and again, leaving examples out, but truly once I started to master that, not only did those small things improve, right? Because my perspective on them had changed, but our relationship improved.

Starting point is 01:20:25 You know, and it's not like a spiritual or relationship bypass to just deal with a relationship that's not working. Clearly, the vast majority of it works and works very well. And there's always refinement, just as there is in the infinite nature of know thyself. We're always going to continue to unfold long past this lifetime in all the different expressions that we have that with. But at the base layer, it's similar to what Eckhart Tolle talks about. In the game of the line of polarity that is resistance and acceptance, anywhere I live in resistance, it's going to persist.

Starting point is 01:21:04 And if I can move into acceptance of that, that not only gives me peace with it, but it allows my awareness to expand beyond what I'm normally seeing. Right? And that's the only way through acceptance that I can get to enjoyment and then enthusiasm to be in God. Yep. And also it's like, imagine how cruel, and maybe that's too hard of a word, but how hard it would be if the other person had to be your God. And how much responsibility that would be and how impossible that task would be and how beautiful of an opportunity it would be for them to begin to be loved by you actually,

Starting point is 01:21:48 you know? And so like, that's the invitation is, uh, reclaim your daemon into your inner cathedral and put it on the seat. You know, what's interesting is what makes a church, a cathedral is there's a throne put in the church that's meant for a bishop. And I see that as a symbol as the way you transform your inner world to really make it magical is you place your daemon, not on somebody else, not on culture, not on mom, not on dad, not on your lover, but in the seat inside of you. And then that gives you the opportunity to actually love a person yeah i was i was pleasantly surprised making me think of the king archetype i was pleasantly surprised with king where magician lover's ability to further my relationship with myself and my relationship with my wife yes and my relationship is dead you know but it just it

Starting point is 01:22:42 just blew me the fuck away i was like like, wow, all of this, every archetype applies to relationship and much more than that. But like it's, it's ability to help me navigate all relationships and we're in relationship with everything. We're in relationship with ourself. We're in relationship with our boss. We're in relationship with each other as homies. We're relationship with everything and uh those archetypes but that specifically reminds me of you are the king of your own inner kingdom yes you may not think of yourself as a king and you are the queen of if you're a woman of your own inner queendom the starting place for any of this unfolding is with self yes it always is. And it always remains there. And that 90% or the 80-20 rule, 80% of the gains are going to be felt in the self-experience through perspective and placing

Starting point is 01:23:33 yourself, your daemon in that king's chair. Amen. And one of my biggest downloads from this past year that I got from my last night of ayahuasca is that my task for this year with the claimed king energy is that I have to Mufasa my Simba. And what that means is all of us have an inner child and most of us will seek to have our inner child taken care of by the other. And that will never work long-term. And one of the great calls is to use the archetypes of the king, the warrior, the magician and the lover or the queen and the huntress and the crone and the lover to take care of your inner girl or your inner boy. So others don't have to do it for you. And that if you learn how to do that, you will learn how to interact with other people in a way that's healing.

Starting point is 01:24:26 And one of the things that came up is one of the core archetypical functions of the king or the queen is to bless. And the idea is that if you see something in you that you admire, bless it, articulate it, and then do that for other people. Like one of the most powerful things that you can do for somebody else is whenever they do something that you admire or that you enjoy or that you like, articulate it to them. It's so counterintuitive. But if you want someone around you to change, what most people do is they critique what they don't like. And what that means is that you're bringing awareness and energy to what you don't want to be. And you actually teach the person, like if the person does nine things that you do like,

Starting point is 01:25:14 but you don't ever articulate those things. And then they do one thing out of every nine things that you don't like. And you only articulate those. You're unconsciously telling them the good things you do don't matter, but the bad things you do, I care about. And it's such a fucking reversal. If you see someone you love do something you love and you tell them that you love it, you've brought more energy to it and you've brought it to their awareness that that's something that you like. They unconsciously do it more, you know? And it's the same for us like to get back to the

Starting point is 01:25:47 evolutionary idea one of our core programs is to conserve energy and so one of the outcrops of that core program is anything that is going right does not need to be fixed so it doesn't require it doesn't need energy so if you're unconscious you don't notice anything that's going right. You only notice what's going wrong. If you take conscious control of the king or the queen and you bless yourself for the thousands of things, like you, to get to this point on this podcast today, you have done hundreds of things perfectly to even arrive here. Yet, if you're not conscious, you didn't pay attention to any of them. And you only paid attention to like that one word that you flubbed or the water that you knocked over earlier. And it's one of the most powerful, what I find is one

Starting point is 01:26:37 of the most powerful ways for me to relate to other people cleanly is to bless myself and to bless them. I love that, brother. Blessings. I got to run. That's perfect. We can end it there, brother. Lots of stuff to link to here, lots of books to take deeper dives. You have a fantastic podcast.

Starting point is 01:26:59 Tell people about that and where they can find you online. Yeah, my podcast is The Myths That Make Us. You can find it on iTunes and Spotify. If you want to get on my newsletter, you can find on iTunes and Spotify. Uh, if you want to get on my newsletter, you can go to my website, Eric gotsy.com, get on the feasting Fridays. And then I have a journaling course. If you're interested in making journaling a habit on my website called make your myth. Beautiful brother. And, uh, you on the gram as well. Oh, yeah. And then it's my name on Instagram, Eric gotsy. Nope. We'll link to all that as well. I love you, brother. I love you too, man. Thank you. you

Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #177 Erick Godsey

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