Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #184 Robb Wolf

Episode Date: January 6, 2021

Robb Wolf is an absolute beast of knowledge on all things science, health and wellness space, as well as a clear and insightful view on the world at large. We dive into carbon cycling, retaining your own sovereignty, his new-ish book “Sacred Cow” he co-wrote with Diana Rodgers, some of the science behind EMF in your daily life, the current healthcare model, and the “stasis” of the world as we know it. Like I said, Robb’s a beast.    We worked out an exclusive deal for Kyle Kingsbury Podcast listeners. Receive a FREE LMNT Sample Pack. You only pay $5 for shipping. The Sample Pack includes 8 packets of LMNT (2 citrus, 2 raspberry, 2 orange and 2 raw unflavored). To claim this deal you must go to https://drinkLMNT.com/kyle This deal is not available on their regular website.  This deal is only valid for the month of January. I’m LOVING LMNT and I think you will too. Get your FREE Sample Pack now...if you don’t love it, they will refund your $5 no questions asked, you have nothing to lose. Connect with Robb:   Robb’s Website: Robbwolf.com Instagram: @dasrobbwolf Twitter: @robbwolf Facebook: Facebook.com/Robbwolf.com Podcasts: The Healthy Rebellion Spotify - iTunes                              Paleo Solution Spotify - iTunes YouTube: Robb Wolf   Show Notes: Robb’s Podcast: 5G causing Corona             Spotify - iTunes World Economic Forum - The Great Reset YT video about 5G and cellular DNA Robb’s Podcast: Great Barrington Declaration             Spotify - iTunes   Sponsors: Lucy Get 20% off Lucy Nicotine Gum at http://Lucy.co using the Promo Code “KKP” at Checkout Bioptimizers has a great new pre/pro-biotic for you to add to your Arsenal. P3-OM will help you optimize your gut health, boosting you immune system as well as reducing stress in your system. Click the link below and use code word KINGSBU10 will get you up to 38% off this great new product as well as an additional 10% off at checkout. https://bioptimizers.com/kingsbu Go to organifi.com/kkp for some Green Juice, it’s my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! Head over to drinklmnt.com/kyle and get the best electrolytes in the game.    Connect with Kyle:   Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys   Parler: @livingwiththeKingsburys Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

welcome welcome and a happy new year whatever you guys celebrated uh we've all for damn sure celebrated the changing from 2020 to 2021 even though let's be honest it doesn't look like uh we're out of the weeds just yet there's a lot that's still up in the air in terms of what this world looks like and how we respond to it, most importantly. And I'm saying this to myself just as much as I am to the listeners here. One of the things I'm calling in is harmony this year. Last year, I wished to dissolve illusion. And to my surprise, we dissolved quite a bit of illusion here on this podcast. And with the people I was introduced to, may have bitten off more than I could chew. But here we go.

It's 2021. And we got Rob Wolf back on the podcast today. I've been following him for a very long time. Many of you have heard me mention his name quite often on the podcast. He's somebody I've learned from over the years through many different methods, through his books and his podcast as well. He has the Healthy Rebellion podcast now, I believe it's called, which I've tuned into quite a bit during quarantine and everything happening in the world. I will link to his podcast that he did debunking the myth of 5G as the cause of coronavirus because not just be, I mean, I could just say that right there and we talk about it

on this podcast and that's enough for you guys to know, unless some of you still believe that, but more importantly than that, he really drives home quite a few other things we should keep our eyes on in terms of what's actually happening right now and the best ways to prepare for that. We dive into that and way more on this podcast, including his latest book with Diana Rogers called Sacred Cow, which is the end-all be-all, if there is such a thing in this world, to the argument on the benefits of eating meat as well as regenerative agriculture. And look, this is not a knock against veganism.

I have plenty of close friends that are vegans and they do awesome with it. It is incredibly good for them and they are pillars of health, but they are few and far between in terms of who can handle that genetically. Rob dives into that topic as well as how we can save the planet, the actual carbon cycle, and what's really happening when a cow burps, not farts, or anything else that would come down to the environment, the quality of the soil, the quality of our food, the quality of our health, and so much more. We really touch on that in a number of topics regarding everything going on in the world today. And this is a very long intro that I don't need to extend any further. I know

you guys are going to love this podcast. I think we went just about two hours with this one. So tons of juicy stuff. He's down in New Braunfels. I'm going to get down on the mats with him at some point, hopefully, and record another because Rob has just tons of great info. Absolutely love Rob Wolf. Number of ways you guys can support this podcast. As always, leave us a five-star rating. That way other people get to see that we're on the charts and we are on the charts. Three years running top 10 podcasts in health and fitness.

So thank you all for tuning in and give us a review. One or two ways the show has helped you out in life. And always check out our sponsors because they make this show possible. We have some new sponsors today and we have a really cool thing that I'm going to tell you about a hunting trip coming up this year in February. That's going to be absolutely awesome with me and my dude Mansell who's been on this podcast. But first and foremost, let's talk about Lucy.co. You know, I've actually, when I talk about this ad, I mentioned the guy who turned me on to nicotine gum was Rob Wolf. It was in a podcast he had done with Ben Greenfield back in the day,

talking about the benefits of nicotine. And the military was asking him, what's the best way to consume this? We're not going to get our men and women off of it. Tell us the pros and cons. And he did a, I don't have that podcast, so sorry for not linking it, but he did a really good expose on the benefits of this. And one of the benefits is nicotine fits into acetylcholine receptors in the brain. Many of you have heard me talk about that.

All nootropics on the planet are trying to increase acetylcholine. It's what gives us memory, language, thought, creativity. It's a muse for writers, artists, comedians. So obviously a lot of them chain smoking on stage or while they're writing a book, because of course we always watch our authors write their books while they chain smoke. Of course not. And artists and authors are much smarter now. So they've switched over to Lucy gum as well as the Lucy lozenges.

They've created a nicotine gum with four migs of nicotine that packs a good punch, has three flavors, wintergreen, cinnamon, and pomegranate. This is the cleanest, easiest way to get nicotine in. You can use this anywhere, really. I mean, you can use it at work, in the gym. It's fantastic in the gym, on flights, anywhere. You don't have to worry about vaping or any of that stuff. And look, vape pens are fucking annoying. I had a guy, I was eating at a restaurant. I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but I'm eating at a

restaurant. I use nicotine regularly. And my five-month-old is in my arms while this guy's just blowing his nicotine vape pen downwind right towards her. And it's like, hey man, I'm all down with the plant medicines, but my five-month-old doesn't need nicotine yet. So move it along, pal. Or just switch to Lucy gum. Easy enough. So check these guys out. You're getting a whopping 20% off over at lucy.co. That's lucy.co. And use the promo code KKP at checkout. That's lucy.co. Promo code KKP, 20% off everything in the store. You will not be disappointed.

They are fantastic. And this stacks well with every other nootropics. Do not worry if you like the nootropics and you like your stacks like I do. Check that out. It's a fantastic addition. Also, we're brought to you again by my boys at Bioptimizers. And I'm going to get these guys on the podcast soon because they have a fantastic story as well. But there's never been a bad time to boost your immune system.

But I don't need to tell you how important a strong immune system is right now, given the global health crisis that's spreading across the planet. P3OM are probiotics that improve your digestion and nutrient absorption, helping ensure your digestive tract and immune system stay strong and healthy. While many other probiotics on the market don't even survive your own stomach acid, P3OM is fully tested to make sure the probiotic strains not only survive in your body, but also don't compete with each other. So you're as protected as possible for the growth of bad bacteria and other pathogens. While other probiotics require refrigeration

and often die in transport on the shelf, P3OM doesn't need refrigeration at all. It's also been clinically proven to give you more energy, less bloating, more mental clarity, and to shift your metabolism into fat burning mode. So if you're ready to boost your immune system, have a healthier digestion and burn the fat, go to bioptimizers fat-burning mode. So if you're ready to boost your immune system, have a healthier digestion, and burn the fat,

go to bioptimizers.com slash kingsboo. That's B-I-O-P-T-I-M-I-Z-E-R-S dot com forward slash kingsboo. Enter the promo code KINGSBOO10 in all caps. And I'm not going to spell that out, but it's the number 10. You also get 10% off your next order. So that's it. Bioptimizers.com slash Kingsboo. Enter promo code Kingsboo10. Boost your immune system, your digestion, the whole game. The gut is possibly one of the most important things when we're talking about overall health and wellness. Many of you know that. We've had many gut health

experts on from Dr. Michael Ruscio to many others. I'm not, I'm drawing a blank on all of them, but man, we've had gut health expert after gut health expert on this podcast. And there is no doubt when you tackle the gut, you tackle many things globally across your body. We're also brought to you by Organifi. I absolutely love these guys. Drew Canole is their founder. A few years back, after experiencing his own transformation through the power of juicing superfoods, he set out to inspire others by helping them transform their health through personal coaching programs. Drew quickly realized there was a need for a solution that could give and CEO to launch Organifi, a line of health-quality,

high-quality superfood blends, and it took two years and 52 iterations to perfect the Organifi green juice offered today. This initial product served as a launchpad for what would soon become the comprehensive line of organic superfood blends that are nutritious, delicious, and complement consumers' busy lifestyles. Their mission is to unite the world through health and happiness by providing access to high-quality nutrition, education, and community. Now, many people would think of this as a slogan, and perhaps it is since I'm reading it to you right now, but that's a big one.

I want to repeat that. Their mission is to unite the world through health and happiness by providing access to high- quality nutrition, education, and community. This is huge. This is another big goal of mine in 2021 is to build community. And we're doing that right here on this podcast, but we're doing that in all of our other communities. I plant a seed that grows into a tree and it plants several other seeds that go out and plant several other seeds. This is the name of the game. And we do that first with our health and our happiness. Paul Cech has a whole book on this. It's the last four doctors you'll ever need. Ebook, fantastic. Get it. And no, that's not a sponsor, but can't mention it enough.

This product, the greens blend is, is one of my absolute favorites. Their gold drink is my absolute favorite. So, uh, even though I'm not supposed to be reading about that today, it's absolutely incredible, but this greens is, is it's one of the easiest ways you can take the highest quality organic ingredients with you on the road. And I do travel a lot, even in the wake of all this stuff, it's got 11 super foods for resetting the body and feeling amazing. It takes just 30 seconds, no chopping, no shopping, no juicing or blending. 600 milligrams of clinically proven

ashwagandha, which is an adaptogenic Ayurvedic herb. It's 100% USDA certified organic. Helps decrease cortisol. Helps promote and support a healthy response to stress. Hello. It helps reduce food cravings. Tastes delicious in plain water, no need for a blender. It also tastes good with the red juice. So one of the things that Tosh was doing around Christmas was we mixed Organifi Green with Organifi Red because red and green are Santa Claus colors. And our son loved it. Bear absolutely loves it. And it's also good with almond milk. There's many ways you can make this amazing. It's got Moringa, Ashwagandha, Chlorella, and all sorts of other goodies, but just an absolutely fantastic product. Go over to Organifi.com slash KKP and use KKP for 20% off. That's 20% off every item at Organifi.com slash KKP. O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash KKP.

Use code word KKP at checkout, 20% off. And of course, I got to mention my boys, Element. L-M-N-T, drinklmnt.com slash Kyle will take you over to my landing page. And that's Rob Wolf's Electrolyte Company. I've been taking this at night. He taught me a new way on this podcast, which I will leave you to in one moment, I promise. And it has totally changed the way that I sleep. And of course, I take other sleep ingredients

and things like that from some of the other sponsors and they work great. But having electrolytes, including a Whopper, one gram of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium, all in this one delicious packet. I have that right before bed with a small volume of water. So it's really salty and

really tangy and it goes down and that shuts down the adrenals. So it's this cool little hack that Chris Masterjohn, PhD taught Rob Wolf that I've been using. And it has been working like a charm. I don't have to get up and pee in the middle of the night. You guys will hear Rob talk about that as well, but drink element, drink element.com slash Kyle, check out their wonderful products as well. And last but not least, you guys, we have the sacred hunting experience from February 11th through the 14th, just outside of Austin, Texas. I don't care where you're at. If you're in this country, you can fly into Austin, Texas, because we're not locking down

again. The state governor has already mentioned that aside from the turd sandwich mayor in this city that wants to shut us down, we're staying wide open, which means you'll be able to fly in. You'll be able to drive in and we're doing this sacred hunting experience. Why is it sacred? What makes it sacred? Well, first and foremost, if you want to learn more about this, there's an awesome book called the sacred hunt, or you can check out the podcast I did with Mansell Denton right here on the KKP. And it's going to be me and Mansell collaborating, creating a space to both learn the basics of how to track,

stalk, kill, and field dress wild game. And in addition, we will be bringing in this wonderful frog medicine called Combo, facilitated by my boy, Mike Salemi. He's been on this podcast a couple of times as well. And it's going to be pretty special. This was used as a hunting medicine in the Amazon, and we will use this as our offering. It's cleansing, it's cleaning, and it's going to prepare us for this hunt. In addition to many other amazing practices that we'll be able to dial into on this hunt. As of

right now, there's only seven spots left. So what I want you guys to do is go over to sacredhunting.com slash Kyle and sign up. Manso will give you a call and you guys can dive into the details later on that phone call. sacredhunting.com slash Kyle to learn more. Set up the phone call with Manso Denton and he will answer any and all questions that you have. This is going to be phenomenal, a great way to get to know one another and a great way to be out in nature here on the land in the hill country of Texas and practicing some of the ancient traditions that many of the elders down in South America have been a part of.

Without further ado, after the very long intro, my man, Rob Wolf. Rob Wolf, thank you for joining the show once again. Kyle, huge honor to be here. Thanks, man. You get more and more handsome as the days go by, so you're great to be here. People tell me that, but then when they compare me to my son, they're like, you're bald and your son's got this long, glorious blonde locks. He's like Samson from the Bible. So I can't cut his hair quite yet. I don't want to lose his superpowers.

A lot of people are going that way. Like the little ones, you're like, is that a boy? Is that a girl? It's hard to tell these days. Like people are rocking the long, long hair on the little boys these days for sure. Yeah. I imagine at some point he's going to want to chop it off from jujitsu. You know, it's like he can only handle so much.

And it's like, oh, my hair's getting pulled. I'm like, yeah, and you're still not really rolling yet. You know, once you get into that aspect, then it's going to really want, it's going to get in the way. Right, right. But you just finished, it's actually been a little bit since you finished it, but it's still relatively new, Sacred Cow with Diane rogers which is hands down one of my favorite books i think one of the only books that i had read prior to that on soil quality and regenerative agriculture that was

really as dialed in was um the soil will save us and that came out a while ago i remember hearing um the author on ben greenfield's fitness podcast and it was brilliant. And I just thought like, why isn't anyone else talking about this? There is no argument here. This is the thing that is 100% necessary when we think of all the stuff going on and doesn't matter if you're far right and think the CO2 is, there is no such thing as climate change, climate change, you know, or if you're far left and you're like, look, the earth is burning and we better fucking get our act together before we go off with the sixth extinction. Right. And, um, you know, connect those dots for us though, you know, really just, just piece that together on what's happening with

regenerative agriculture, what's happening in a carbon cycle that's closed looped and all the things that, that mother nature somehow designed in its perfect form that we seem to have forgotten yeah man um there's a lot to unpack on that so like the the book and film sacred cow diana it it all props to diana rogers like she really spearheaded this um i helped a lot on kind more technical science, like the physics and non-equilibrium thermodynamics and stuff like that. And I also provided some, I guess, kind of connective tissue and story arcs to the book. But this is really her vision. And we've been talking about doing this since 10 years ago. It's been on our radar. I did my first public debate around climate change and animal husbandry and its effects on this story in 2006. So I definitely not a Johnny come lately in this thing. in our ecology, in our environment was an obvious one to me very early on. But facing facts, people are way more excited about getting abs and fitting in their skinny jeans and all the rest of that

stuff. And so we just really had to wait until there was enough interest to even justify doing this thing. So when Diana wanted to do this project many years ago, it would have just died a silent death. It would have gone nowhere because there literally just weren't enough people interested in this thing. And there have been huge books written on the following three topics with huge books written on subtopics of it. covered the ethical, environmental, and health considerations of a meat-inclusive food system. So what we noticed is in online debates and discussions, this game of whack-a-mole starts coming up. And it's typically with vegan folks or plant-based leaning folks, where there might be a discussion around health that comes up. Oh, eating meat gives you cancer and this and that and the other. And you start addressing that and then the conversation shifts to the environment. And then they start shifting the conversation to, well, animal husbandry is very resource intensive. So it takes a lot of water. There's a lot of food

that's going to feed animals that should be going to feed humans, which there's all kinds of problems with that stuff. And then they will talk about the carbon footprint, greenhouse gas emissions. There was a meme that was coming out of places like the World Health Organization that 38% of all greenhouse gas emissions globally are from animal husbandry, which was patently false. It just couldn't be more false, but it gained this momentum. And now you can find credible news outlets that have quoted this commentary. And then finally, if we end up addressing the health part, which is huge, and then you address the ecological part, which is also huge, and most people don't care about it because it's not immediate and right in front of their face. And everything that we're talking about is completely at odds with kind of the mainstream narrative. excitement of things like impossible burger and beyond meat like people are so excited by these kind of meat alternatives and there's a thought that it's more sustainable and that it's more

ethical and again there's all kinds of problems with that stuff when you dig into it then you circle back around to the ethics discussion well it's unethical to kill animals you know to eat them and so we had to unpack all of that. And I guess, before I dig into this, I really am going to answer your question around the carbon cycle and everything. What I would encourage people to do is don't believe me because I sound like I know what I'm talking about. I've spent a lot of... Or maybe I do, maybe I don't. Maybe some people are like that guy, maybe an idiot and they're probably right. My wife would probably agree with them wholesale on that.

But it's easy to get bamboozled into a scenario where you're like, well, fuck man, that guy just seems to really know a lot more about this topic than I do. And so we just acquiesce all of our agency on a topic because somebody appears to be an authority. And the one thing they ask, the one thing that I beg is just because what I'm throwing out there is contrary to the bulk of the mainstream discussion around this, don't dismiss it out of hand. At the same time, if you are kind of animal product centric or keto or whatever, don't just believe me out of hand

because it supports your confirmation bias. We can't do that. We're at this point in this very information rich environment where we have to actually do some hard work and understand the mechanisms that underlie our world or else we're going to be controlled and manipulated by powers that really don't give two shits about our well-being at the end of the day. And so, you know, on this topic of just say like greenhouse gas emissions, there have been commentary or comments and claims that, and backing up a little bit, I'm sure people are aware of this but there is this concept of the the greenhouse effect where like if we just had a glass bell jar that was out in the sun and it had no atmosphere in it at all it the temperature wouldn't increase dramatically it would increase some because the

light the the glass actually retains some of the the infrared radiation that goes into it. But there's not really a great medium inside there for energy to be kind of pulled out of that sunlight. If we put nitrogen into the atmosphere or filled it with nitrogen, it also wouldn't really get that much warmer. It would heat up a little bit, but not that much because certain molecules have these characteristics that really lend them well to absorbing energy from sunlight. If we were to fill that bell jar with water vapor or carbon dioxide or some of these sulfur-containing gases, those things absorb heat like crazy. Our closest celestial neighbor, Venus, is an example of a greenhouse effect that has gone crazy advanced. The surface of Venus is hot enough to melt lead. And it's mainly because of these sulfur-containing gases that really retain infrared radiation

from sunlight. So the greenhouse effect is a real thing. But the interesting thing when we look at history, the planet's been hotter, the planet's been colder. It's not entirely clear. Are we really driving that process? I'm in this kind of weird spot where I think that there are elements of climate change that are really outside of our scope to influence one way or the other. And I also have no doubt that human biogenic and anthropogenic activity is absolutely a factor in this thing. So I end up pissing everybody off because I don't just jump squarely into one camp. I drop onto my groin on all of these things,

trying to make a decision. But when we talk about greenhouse gases as it relates to, say, cattle are the ones that are really demonized. When they eat roughage, cellulosic material, plants, there are bacteria that help to break those things down, ironically, into short-chain saturated fats. And so ruminant animals don't run on carbohydrates. They actually run on short-chain saturated fats, which is kind of an ironic byline. But in that whole process, there is a non-trivial amount of methane that is released, burping, farting, all the rest of that stuff. That methane goes into the atmosphere and methane is significantly more potent as a

greenhouse gas. I think it's like 100, 1,000 times more potent than carbon dioxide. But the thing is, is that methane only exists in the atmosphere for about five to 10 years. The action of UV radiation in the upper atmosphere and just in the atmosphere for about five to 10 years. The action of UV radiation in the upper atmosphere and just in the atmosphere in general will tend to cleave that methane into hydrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and then that carbon dioxide then becomes part of the carbon cycle where as we exhale, we are greenhouse gas emitters. We are emitting carbon dioxide, but that carbon dioxide is largely part of a biological system. So we exhale and other

organisms exhale carbon dioxide that gets taken up by plants that becomes part of their matrix. It becomes wood, it becomes food. It becomes all these different things. But in the process of demonizing cattle for greenhouse gas emissions, something kind of got lost in the mix. Termites produce absolutely massive amounts of greenhouse gases. It was recently discovered that shellfish produce massive amounts of greenhouse gases. There was a move in the Swedish parliament to exterminate all of the moose in Sweden because they are ruminants and they're producing greenhouse gases.

And this is the danger that we've gotten into in looking at biogenic sources of greenhouse gases as particularly dangerous because now we are holding suspect all living systems that produce greenhouse gases in an effort to mitigate greenhouse gases so that we can sustain life. And it's completely contradictory. There are people recommending that we should eradicate the shellfish on the ocean floor to mitigate our greenhouse gas emissions so that we can save life on the planet. And this is the crazy bill that we've gone to.

And people will say, well, when you look at the real source of the huge amounts of greenhouse gases are really the transportation sector. And COVID shined a wonderful light on this. If anything good came out of COVID, we had this natural experiment where we are always tracking relative amounts of carbon dioxide and methane and whatnot in the atmosphere. Those levels dropped significantly in the amount being produced while transportation was largely shut down, particularly back in the spring. But yet the numbers of ruminant animals didn't change. So we saw a really massive shift in that regard. And I don't know if

I'm doing a great job of explaining this thing. This is, again, where we did a whole book and movie, kind of like going step by step, laying this stuff out. But the real numbers of what represents greenhouse gas emissions from animal products specifically is more along maybe 2.8% of all greenhouse gas emissions within the United States. There's some people will bicker over whether or not that's accurate or inaccurate, but there's kind of a reality that there's not a lot of other things that you can do to get that quality of food. And I'm really leaning towards like the more pasture based meat systems and whatnot. There's an opportunity to reverse desertification. So we document this in the film where a rancher down in the Chihuahuan Desert in Mexico, he's reclaimed over a million acres of desert into grassland by using holistically managed grazing animals. And what's interesting about this is this improves the water capture capacity of the soil.

It actually improves the carbon capture capacity of the soil. So the soil will retain more carbon. And it's a contentious topic. People who are kind of down on regenerative agriculture say that its claims of carbon capture are overhyped. People who are really into regenerative agriculture will say that this is something that we can capture enough carbon to get us back to pre-industrial levels. I don't know what the real story is there, but I do know for a fact that desertification, the expansion of desert in various areas around the world, is a legit problem. And the one tool that we have at our disposal to address desertification specifically is holistically managed grazing animals. And so regardless of where they play

out on that specific greenhouse gas carbon capture story, we could make a really solid case that if we were able to reverse the desertification of the Sahara Desert, of the Chihuahuan Desert, of the Southwest United States, that could have a massive impact both on the local ecology because you would have more rain because of the water cycle that emerges from grasslands. You would have more rain capture. You wouldn't have the types of flash flooding that occurs and all these other really dangerous elements of climate change that people are worried about. And we literally have no other tool at our disposal to be able to address that stuff. And again, I know I bounced around a lot. It's tough because there's so many different moving

parts to this story that's kind of like, okay, what is the thread that needs to be told here? But again, this is where I would encourage people to do a little digging on this and do a little thinking and research. So even, I guess, a few things to kind of button that up or hopefully button it up. The claims around the amount of greenhouse gas emissions out of the animal product sector are massively overblown. It completely ignores the reality that this is part of a biogenic system. So it's a carbon cycle. It really removes emphasis or focus from the transportation sector, which if you want to be puckered about where carbon is entering the atmosphere at a very high rate and whatnot, that's a good place to look. Just to piss more people off, I would say that if you're really concerned about fossil fuels and you're not starry-eyed excited about different types of modern nuclear energy,

like the Gen 4, Gen 5 nuclear reactors, thorium and whatnot, and I'm a big fan of solar, but there's problems with solar, mainly with battery limitations and stuff like that, at least currently. So if you're going to be down on carbon emissions and you're not excited about nuclear energy, I would just really, really encourage people before you form an opinion on that, get educated about nuclear energy so you could sit down and have a conversation about the difference between a gen one gen two gen four gen five reactor the possibility of thorium and be able to carry a conversation on that and do not have an opinion on the topic until you can do that because it will

might change your mind on the topic so again i don't know if I really answered your question, but I mean, it's a really big, meaty topic. And I guess one other piece to throw into this, in this whole COVID scenario, there's this topic of the Great Reset. There have been these targets thrown out by the World Health Organization, by the World Economic Forum, that by 2030, we need to enact all of these different processes for reducing carbon emissions. And ironically, the United States has done an outstanding job of that already. They had pulled their carbon emissions back to 1990 levels as of the last five years. But COVID has been dovetailed into this and this isn't conspiracy theory this is on world economic forum website where they're like we want the the great reset we need to

rejigger capitalism um people need to eat less meat they need to uh you know do a whole variety of things and the opportunity of covid is that effectively, and I mean, again, it's the World Economic Forum. They, in a few more words than this, say that we can crush the global economy and then rebuild it in a way that suits their vision of what the world should be better. And again, not an opinion piece, not a conspiracy theory. I can get you some links to the World Economic Forum website and folks can read about the Great Reset and how they view COVID as like this amazing opportunity to basically enact their social engineering goals around climate change and use this pandemic as a leverage to affect all this change that they've been unable to do up until now. Yeah, that just it's a can of worms in my head because uh you know it it's it's oddly um a lot of these great ideas that seem to

be coming around on how to shape the future of the globe seem to rest in the hands of very few people and what would appear to be um some type of one world government. And that too doesn't seem promising when we understand what that looks like at the end of the day. Maybe it's like Bezos, Gates, Zuckerberg, plus national governments. For the people who hate capitalism and big corporations, COVID has, in an evolutionary perspective, it has produced a massive selection pressure against small entrepreneurial business and has selected these multinational corporations as the winners. And these people wield so much power and so much influence now. And again, this shouldn't be conspiracy theory stuff. There are far fewer options for shopping for business than what we had previously. And if these folks get an inkling that they have an idea around the way that they want to tackle climate change,

God, let's hope they get that right. Let's hope that they're so smart that they get every element of thermodynamics, ecology, economies correct because they can so influence where things go that it's going to be difficult for the rest of us to really do much. And with things like social media now,

and you can be shamed. I joke to some degree that Diana and I did this book and film to commit career suicide because we've been shadow banned, blasted by people that were alt-right extremists and everything. And historically, I've considered myself pretty centrist. I have some things I agree with on the progressive side, and I have some economic things that of a natural systems-based approach to addressing climate change and a host of, interestingly, social justice issues. One of the things that Diana Rogers dug up in the book is that around the world, there are a lot of places where tens of millions of women are legally not allowed to own physical

property. The one thing that they're allowed to own is livestock. And that is literally their life's blood for themselves, for their family. It is their social status. It is their economic independence. And one interesting place that we're getting pushback from on this great reset demonization of animal products is from developing countries, these places that rely on traditional animal husbandry for a huge segment of their economy. And the irony is that it is a mainly white, wealthy, vegan-centric group of people who are saying that anybody who eats meat is unethical, evil, and is destroying the environment. And there are literally tens of millions of women around the world that that is their sole source of income and economic support. And none of that gets discussed. In this bigger picture, those are stories that also need to be told. And again, I don't know what the exact right story is here, but I bet it looks a lot more

like people at a local level manage their diets and their lifestyles in a way that works for them versus this massively consolidated deal where more like in Venezuela, part of the problem that they had is they completely abandoned their indigenous food production systems. They were wholly dependent on food imports. And when their economy crumbled because oil prices plummeted, people are starving to death there. And it's because the farmers all left the farms. And yeah, it's super fucked up. And again, it's a big, complex story and folks are so inclined to make very snap decisions around emotionally loaded little tiny segments

of this story. And some of the stories are at odds, they're contradictory. And so it's not an easy thing to unpack it and really come up with a good story but i do have this sense that um less consolidation of power to your point about this kind of one world government thing that makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than one or two people pulling all the all the strings that seems really bad in the in the places where we've seen that happen, bad things happen. Yeah. Over and over and over again. Yeah. History repeats itself there. Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about this. Obviously, I've had a number of guests that have all painted through their different lens, some of the things that are going on that are huge red flags and issues

with this whole thing, but it's experiential too. I have a lot of family. I grew up in Northern California. The very same week, Newsom said, we're shutting local businesses down again, and we're really going to employ people to follow my rules. That comes out with him with the photos of the French laundry, eating without a mask on. That same week, I flew to Miami and the large corporations of airplane industry just allowed everyone to board the plane together again. So now I have a perfect stranger sitting shoulder to shoulder with me and I can take my mask off to eat and drink right next to him. I'm not sure. Am I taking crazy pills? How is no one connecting the dots here

between small businesses shut down versus big businesses being able to run wild bezos i think has made 450 plus billion since march you know like this is a huge consolidation of wealth no different than 2008 and uh it's it's it is alarming uh well i want to jump back into the salty conversation around this stuff and we've got a lot to cover there but i do want to backtrack because um i had the folks on from dang let me think of their name nutrisense and we talked about they are one of the new cgm companies leveled is another one there's um i really like nutrisense product not a sponsor but great product great folks there and one of the things they were talking about is how carb tolerance and metabolic health really does seem to be an indicator on the stress of the body when one comes in contact

with COVID-19. You obviously, you know, you've written a number of books. Wired to Eat was phenomenal. Talked a lot about that. I think the last time you were on the show, we unpacked it. You've run a carb test. I think you guys are getting ready to gear up for another one, a seven-day challenge. Talk a bit about that. Talk about, you know, carbohydrates, You've run a carb test. I think you guys are getting ready to gear up for another one, a seven-day challenge. Talk a bit about that.

Talk about carbohydrates tolerance. Talk about weight loss. Talk about some of these, what is your wheelhouse that you're likely blue in the face of speaking on, but how important that is in times like these. Because whether we're talking about the external world and bridging things back to self-empower communities and source food locally and source clean water locally. We have to do that with our own health. You know, like the idea that, oh, you know, I'll eat whatever the fuck I want. And then the doctor in the white lab coat is going to fix me.

It's complete nonsense. We got to see through that illusion and understand it is up to us. It is our responsibility to take that on for ourselves. And this seems to be one of the key ingredients or building blocks of health has to do with carb response and metabolic health. Yeah. It's funny because it's like jujitsu in a lot of ways where you think you kind of understand something and then somebody mentions something. We were working some cross-side top stuff and I was talking to Henry Akins and he was talking about well, when you're cupping the hip, if you bring some elbow in, then it's really hard to get that working some cross-side top stuff. And I was talking to Henry Akins and he was talking about like, well, when you're cupping the hip,

if you bring some elbow in, then it's really hard to get that underhook for the guy on the bottom. I'm like, oh my God. So you thought you knew it and then you get another little layer of it. And it's like, oh, I didn't know that thing at all. And so I've been mucking around this metabolic health story for like 22 years now

in a pretty formalized way. And it just continues to floor me how important this is. And I had a talk a couple of years ago, Metabolic Flexibility, the Rosetta Stone of the Macronutrient Wars. And you've got these folks that are in the high-carb, low-fat camp, and they have some very compelling cases around. And they tend to focus mainly on calories, but at the end of the day, whole unprocessed foods seem to win in that story. Then you've got the more low-carb camp, which I've been in for 22 years.

Some really interesting metabolic modifications that occur there, particularly in ketosis. As of 2021, it'll be 100 years that the ketogenic diet has been developed as a medical intervention. It was developed in 1921. So we have a lot of interesting stuff to pull from, but also these seemingly at odds stories. But at the end of the day, the folks who seem to age very well, who have good relative physical performance, who don't tend to develop neurodegenerative disease, cardiovascular disease, different types of cancer, they tend to be very metabolically healthy and relatively metabolic flexible. If they have some carbs, they can deal with the carbs. If they eat some fat, they can deal with the fat. And in this infectious disease situation, it's been well understood that everything from influenza to measles to chicken pox, people who have disordered metabolism, people who tend to have higher than ideal blood

sugar levels, higher than ideal insulin levels, they're poorer. They don't do as well. And the exact mechanisms there are not entirely well understood, but it seems to relate to when we get sick with just about any type of infection, but influenza and the SARS viruses may be good examples. The thing that will hurt or potentially kill someone is this cytokine storm, this release of these signaling molecules that ramp up the inflammatory process. And in certain situations, this is good. But if it goes out of control and becomes this feed forward mechanism, it's like a bomb going off. Once you hit this critical mass, the body can't control it anymore. But these control rods that

slow it down are adequate vitamin D levels, good amounts of omega-3s, and what we would call euglycemia, good blood sugar control. Those things tend to keep the out-of-control elements of an immune system getting ramped up in check. The real bugger with this, living in the United States, a study maybe five years ago suggested that fewer than 12% of Americans are metabolically healthy. And there's a big spectrum on what that is. Some people are an absolute train wreck. Some people are so-so, but there are very few people that actually meet this mark of good metabolic health, which honestly, at the very beginning of this COVID story, like back in March, part of the thing that really scared me was that realization.

It was like, wow, if this, and we had information out of China almost immediately that poor metabolic health indicated poorer outcomes, increased morbidity and mortality, greater death and severity of illness. And so I was pretty scared, you know, March, April, I'm like, damn, when this really hits the population at large, this could be that like 2 million people dead within a year's time or whatnot in the United States in particular. I don't think it proved to be as bad as what we quite thought initially, but it's crystal clear that that metabolic health piece is a massive determinant of how bad or relatively easy the whole process is. This is an equal one, but I managed to catch COVID a couple of weeks ago and it was an interesting process. On a Tuesday, I did a long workday. And when I went to bed, I was

exhausted. I was like, oh my God, I am tired, abnormally tired. Same thing on a Wednesday, even worse on a Thursday. But when I woke up in the middle of the night, Thursday night going into Friday morning, and I had a sore throat and I just felt awful, like absolutely terrible. And when I woke up Friday, what was interesting is my wife, our dog was barking. She opened up the door. He went running out. She was like, oh my God, there's a skunk back here. We live in rural area of Texas. So we have all kinds of critters coming in our backyard. And I got up and poked my head out there and I looked at her and I'm like, are you fucking with me? I can't smell anything. She was like, the skunk smell is knocking me down. I'm like, I can't smell anything.

I went back to bed and basically I didn't really get out of bed that day, that Friday. I was laid out. I couldn't taste anything, couldn't smell anything. I was just offline. And then Saturday, I was about 85% better. Sunday, I did some light was just offline. And then Saturday, I was about 85% better. Sunday, I did some light mobility and exercise. And then by Monday, I was pretty good. I noticed that that next week when I did some jujitsu, my chest was just a little heavy. And what I took from it, I was like, oh, if I was metabolically compromised, if I was already sick, if you took how tired I was on that Friday when I was really tired and you stretched that out for two or three weeks, that would be bad.

And so I get where in the right situation, this is a terrible illness, a life-threatening kind of scenario. But I also think that it was as severe as it was because I was working myself to death for like two weeks leading up to that. And I think that that's why it was as bad as it was. And my wife ended up catching it too. And she was kind of lethargic for half of a day. And that was it. And she's Italian. And generally just tougher than I am anyway. She's hard to kill, but she worked hard. But I just had a bunch of deadlines and I was working myself to death and it really kicked my ass. And again, this isn't an equal one, but within the circle that I run in, I know folks in their 70s that have caught it, but are very metabolically

healthy. And they're like, I felt like shit for three days. There was three days there where I didn't feel good. And it maybe took them two or three weeks to get back to doing their workouts that they were doing. They had to ease back into it and whatnot. But knock on wood, and I'm very fortunate from this, within my extended peer group and what have you, I haven't known anybody who has died. I've known no one that's really been hospitalized. Secondary and tertiary to that, I hear some of these stories and pretty consistently, it's like, well, they don't take particularly good care of themselves. And out of the media, we will see some stories like, well, this guy was a triathlete and he was so healthy and he got real sick or maybe he died from COVID or whatever. Elite athletes aren't

necessarily healthy. Again, they may be working themselves to death. They may be eating a diet that supports their physical activity level, but doesn't really support metabolic health. And not to super bum people out, but when you look at what I understand the truth to be around these vaccines, it's unlikely that they're going to provide sterilizing immunity the flu vaccine does not provide sterilizing immunity like not all vaccines do it's possible it will and it would be amazing if it does but it doesn't look like it does what it the best hope here is that it mitigates the severity of the illness doesn't mitigate transmission.

So you've got that as a factor. Then you've got this new strain that appears to have come out of the UK, which is more transmissible, which we should not be surprised by that at all because we've been distancing ourselves from each other. And so we've created a selection pressure for something that is more easily transmitted. This is the irony. Biology is all about trade-offs.

And this is something that we don't fucking talk about. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't have shut down or should have shut down. But early into this, there were several virologists that said, we will select for a more easily transmitted version of this, doing the masks and the distancing. This will happen. And it did and so um the hope there is that it becomes a less severe variety of it but there's no guarantee of that and so

when you couple the the reality that the the i think the vaccines are going to be of limited utility preventing transmission and the reality that this stuff is like where most people catch three to five colds a year in the corona those are coronaviruses and so there's a pretty good likelihood the one tool that you're really going to have at your disposal is to get as healthy as you possibly can and there has been virtually no messaging around this from like cdc world health organization um dr fauci as far as i could tell in one interview out of everything he's ever said or done said people should probably take some vitamin d and should eat better and that's it but there is no um think about like uh president kennedy when he did his his talk about we're going to go to the moon in 10 years and rallying the whole nation.

There has been nothing like that about everybody must get healthy. Pick low carb, pick vegan, pick zone, pick whatever it is. But you have to get healthy. This is our one. It is the one tool that is a lever that everybody, regardless of their situation, can have greater control over than what we really think. And it's telling that the only place that you see that is podcasts like a couple of knuckleheads like you and i doing you know it it's uh and not infrequently people talking about improved metabolic health get shadow banned and and you know their their stuff removed for just suggesting that being healthier may mitigate your risk of severe illness or or the higher likelihood of death but um this is good like this is something that we we really going to have to take in and just do it at a grassroots level. And again, I don't fucking care how people tackle it.

Go vegan, go whatever. But if you aren't as metabolically healthy as you can be under these circumstances, and blood glucose monitoring is a great way to get some insight into that. HRV is a not bad way to do that, but even just paying attention to, you don't have the money to put into stuff like that. How do you eat a meal? How do you feel two hours after the meal?

How do you feel five hours after the meal? Like, can you go five or eight hours after a meal without like melting down and feeling like you're going to kill somebody? If you can't, then we've got some problems with your metabolic health and possibly with the composition of the needle. And it's not to say you want to go eight hours between eating all the time, but a reasonably metabolically

healthy person can do that. And it shouldn't just melt them down and cause them to want to kill somebody and eat them. So even at a very uh no cost just experiential level like getting a sense around how do you respond between meals is a not bad indicator of metabolic health yeah beautiful brother beautiful well let's let's let's jump let's jump into some of the debunking that you've done. When this all first started, there was a lot of hype around 5G being the cause of coronavirus. And you had, in my opinion, the best piece, the best podcast done on this. And you went balls deep. There were a lot of F-bombs.

You were fucking supercharged up. And I was feeling it. I was like, yes, give me the goods here. You talked Koch's postulate. You went down all of the science behind how this is absolutely impossible and the real threat when that is thrown around. Now, I think there's a lot of conspiracy here that may turn out to be conspiracy fact within the scheme of COVID, the Great Reset, the power structures, all that shit. And you just look at my guest list it's it's it's it's apparent right um but when it comes to this there is there is uh you know with with 5g being

the cause and things like that that just gets thrown out and taken and run with there is an issue because we do overlook the real potentials of a real threat you know and so so i want you to talk a bit about that. Obviously, we can link to this in the show notes because you did an entire podcast on it that we're not going to get all the way through here. But talk a bit about that and, you know, really where we can get arrive when we start fixating on certain things

that may or may not be true, rather than taking a step back, being the observer and seeing what's in my control. You know, like health is health is in my control ultimately that's where i should put my energy in addition to other things but but what is within my control might trump the idea of this you know boogeyman was created by 5g towers yeah um that was an interesting one like i i saw an individual on Instagram post something that was very supportive of this idea that 5G was the cause of COVID and the coronavirus. And there's some folks out in the world that are into this. So there's kind of the infectious disease model of disease, and then there's this terrain model and the terrain model people it it's kind of crazy um it it has a spectrum like it at its core it's basically

saying that if you're healthier you will generally do better which we just had a discussion around that like i i completely support that but it goes so far as to say that um things like hiv and the coronavirus are actually just viral fragments in our own dna and that if you allow your terrain to become compromised then these things will bubble out but it it's really not an infectious disease the way that like virologists and microbiologists would would suggest and uh uh which is it it's an interesting theory but i i just don't see any any yeah i want to i don't want to cut you off but i want to jump in on that you know people that i've been following for years dr thomas cowan a lot of people like that have really been steeped in this and um you know the idea behind that might be i think he uses

an analogy like if dolphin gets sick and the next day 12 in the pod gets sick, they don't say, Hey, what virus did the first dolphin had that spread to the rest of the 12? They say, what's in the water, right? Like what was the thing? And I can relate to that. That's something I can picture and understand. So what's in the air, what's in the electromagnetic waves, the frequency fields, things like that, that are impacting us. That would be predicated on the belief though that nothing's transmissible right and that is where it gets a little sticky because we do seem to see certain populations get hit all in one whack regardless of 5g towers being around or not yeah the thing for me the real extreme terrain folks remind me of breathitarians.

So in this spectrum, you've got vegan and then raw vegan and then uber raw vegan or whatever. And then out at this extreme, you have some people that are breathitarians that claim that if you are just spiritually pure enough, you can convert sunlight directly into energy and you don't have to consume anything and the fact that we have no chlorophyll the fact that we have no no seeming physiological mechanistic capacity to do this aside i find this so incredibly disgusting when you consider that the implication here from these breatharians is that all of these kids that have died in sub-saharan africa from drought and famine would have been okay if they'd just been more spiritually pure like it is like it's super fucked up if you if you carry it to its its end goal well it's like well i guess all those people were just morally corrupt or something, or biology necessitates a cycle and life eats life, and this whole other kind of ugly thing that I think people try to avoid. And it's odd because we know pretty well that European-introduced diseases like smallpox and syphilis crushed the native populations of the Americas, like Charles Mann's book, 1491.

And again, there's contention on what these numbers are, but there's estimates that the population of the Americas pre--columbian contact may have been two-thirds what it is today it would have been similar to what it was in like the 1950s or 60s like it was fucking full of people and then you had you know european contact a few very highly transmissible diseases made made landfall and then people came back 100, 150 years later, and it was an empty continent for all purposes compared to what it was. And we see all these remains of civilizations that have been effectively wiped out. And again, there's lots of contention there. But that's where... If you live in an environment where there are high amounts of air pollution, are you at higher likelihood for developing upper respiratory problems?

Absolutely. If you have consistently contaminated water, are you going to have more GI problems? Yes. So that's where, without a doubt, there are elements of this terrain story that definitely make sense, but I just kind of nest it under there are elements of this terrain story that that definitely make sense but i i just kind of nest it under there are characteristics that support health and so i you know that's kind of where that stuff goes but you know circling back to that that 5g story there was there was a person that i i really respect in a lot of ways that was supporting this kind of 5g notion and i i thought

reasonably i said in my comment, I said with respect, but there's no mechanistic underpinning for this. We really need to be careful in making this suggestion. And this person is a physician. And then another physician jumped in. And this second physician very much advocates this 5G transmits disease story and he really went after me and i was like okay fuck you you know and and that's why i i it was this scorched earth kind of gig and and got into the electromagnetic spectrum and and emperor square law and all this stuff and um the i'm i'm in this spot where you like i love this kind of ancestral health paleo kind of template. So you would think that I would be one of these people that would immediately jump to the defense of this idea that we are living in an environment that is very different than our ancestors with regards to electromagnetic radiation.

That is something that has changed. And it's something that has concerned me a lot. I've just been unable to find sufficient evidence to make the case that in general, we should not run wireless communications in our house. I don't know that you should sleep with a router under your pillow. I try to keep my cell phone away from my person and stuff like that. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some sensitive individuals that do succumb to have some legitimate health problems there. I would leave that door wide open. But on a population-based story, I don't see EMFs being remotely the boogeyman

that they're made out to be, particularly when we compare it to hyperpalatable foods. People are overeating. People don't spend any time outside. There's all this other low-hanging fruit that I don't think is really getting addressed, but people are demonizing this stuff. And then within this whole COVID story, and this is, I mean, Joe Rogan's had some interesting folks on,

and I think maybe you have too, people that have worked in the CIA or done histories of the CIA. This is a classic anti-information campaign where you take something that's got a topic, COVID, that has a lot of different moving parts and maybe has some nefarious activity associated with it. And then you attach to that some conspiracy theories that are over the top crazy, arguably easy to unpack and dismiss, at least within certain scientific circles, but then it makes it kind of carte blanche

to dismiss everything associated with that. Like any type of counter narrative that's going on can be easily dismissed then. And so I think that that's the real danger of going kind of whole hog on some of these things. I really dislike folks who just say, well, there's no information on this or there's no randomized control trial or whatever, and you just dismiss it. I don't think that that's doing good diligence. You can say, was there a mechanism here? Is there something that we would understand that would make sense? And you start going,

and then just assign some risk associated with that. Again, on the EMF side, unless you're very close to a high transmission source, you can get into a situation where those EMFs can modify the protein pores in our cells because they're electromagnetically charged. And so you can make the case that that, that electromagnetic field could modify the way that, that some elements of cells work, but that drops off at an inverse square. If you are twice as far away as what you were, it's one quarter,

the energy. So one quarter, the effect. So it drops off at a very rapid pace. So. Yeah, that's perfect. Let me jump in on that so i i geeked out you know i had nicholas pino on the non-tinfoil guide to emf fantastic dude i got the emf um monitor that he recommended it's fairly cheap on amazon i went through my house because it's a modern home. I have two ruckus 5G amplifiers that were installed and I was concerned. I got a five-month-old. I'm like, this isn't exactly

living on the land. Let me just see what this is. The router itself is sectioned off in the master bedroom, so we're a ways away from that. But these amplifiers that are throughout the house create no dead space throughout the house so i'm like let me just walk around with this and see what it is now if i get on a small ladder and raise you know the the meter right next to it it sounds off like a fire alarm but when i stand underneath this and i you know i've it's it's not a giant house it's not a cathedral they're decently high ceilings but they're they're you know average new new home ceilings When I put that thing on my head, it doesn't make a peep. Right. When I look at it, I'm six foot three and a half. Right. So if I'm laying in bed, there is no signal whatsoever. And then in every room in the house,

that's the case. So again, to talk about that, it's like, well, here, you you know and what about the new 6g ones and that kind of stuff and it's like we'll always have those question marks unless we really get to the bottom of that and one of the easiest ways is to just like you said at the very beginning of this podcast don't take our word for it actually go out and give yourself a meter and just check for yourself like hey you know what mine actually is in a spot where i shouldn't have it maybe i should move that because it could be something of an issue and maybe that's causing some type of sleep disruption and things like that. Have you seen this guy? He's a, he's a kind of a chunky Indian dude, Electro Bop or something like that. I forget his YouTube channel. I'm going to see if I can link

to it in the show notes. All my dad sent me this video. He did a 15 minute video on the same thing, debunking 5g and he showed the whole wavelength you know of the spectrum from down to the very low microwaves all the way up to the spectrum of sunlight and that's something that you unpacked like look infrared light is going to make you warmer and 5g operates below infrared right so at most it's going to yeah yeah at most it's going to make your skin raise in temperature the only thing that can start to affect at the dna level is much higher it's higher than uh than you know it's in the ultraviolet spectrum but it's not in the the

classical uh a and b it's i think it's uvc that will do that and you know if for i don't not speaking from personal experience but for those of us that have grown cannabis plants or psilocybin mushrooms uh uvc lights come in handy because they will wipe out mold and different things yeah they they're they're uh i think that's what they're using on airplanes now that's why i can sit next to perfect strangers once again right and not get this uh this uh boogeyman uh disease spreading around so yeah tons of stuff there i i really like that something you brought up too was um you know these other real potentials that can be overlooked right because that's one of the classic tools is to then make a little box that says you're a right

wing conspiracy theorist if you have mentioned any of this shit and lump you into that he's a flat earther he's a this he's a. And then that's just an easy thing to discard for most people that don't want to do research. But you talked a bit about the potential of like a real, you know, an EMP going off or a nuclear warhead going off above North America that could shut the grid down. I've heard other talks about

the potentials of the grid going down. Perhaps that could be a podcast in and of itself, but, you know, what are some of your best tips for prepping for something like that? And not necessarily in a doomsday disaster, like the world's coming to an end, this is Armageddon, but just in the sense of best practices, these are good things to have around. And at the very least, you've covered some bases where you can go about your normal daily life and not worry about the extremes. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And just as very least, you've covered some bases where you can go about your normal daily life and not worry about the extremes. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just as an aside, like when COVID hit, I'm very fortunate.

We work from home. I've worked from home for years, but I've been kind of expecting the world to come unraveled since about 2008. So I've always had about a year of different types of food stashed, like some of it's frozen, flash frozen, some of it's dehydrated. I have these 10 gallon coconut oil tubs that, you know, have like a 25 year life on them. And I basically have like a million calories per person for in the house. And I've got that stashed. And then we just, we've got a freezer with some meat. We have our general food that we have stocked up. We buy like a half a cow at a time. One thing that we did is we have a tri-fuel generator. So if the electricity in general goes down, I can go plug this thing in and either put diesel gasoline or propane in it and and run run it on that um and there's all kinds of cool things you can do with that like you would turn off everything

except just your refrigerator and your freezer and you know just keep those things going at a at a minimum kind of clip uh i have a really extensive um kind of uh emergency medical setup. And it ranges from like antibiotics to anti-malarial stuff to, my wife just got me a wound suturing kit. So it's what surgeons use to learn how to do basically wound suturing. So it's kind of cool. It's like a block of silicon gel

that has like a bullet in it and BBs and screws. And so you have to cut it open remove it and then practice suturing it so i've always been kind of tinkering with like my my kind of emergency medical skills on that and then beyond that it was um we've just known that there was a potentiality around something happening and that uh when big events occur you know like a terrorist event or like a hurricane or something like that um people just get they're they're oftentimes in panic or or paralysis for for days or weeks like they just can't believe this thing happened and how am I going

to adapt to this? And so for us, there really wasn't any paralysis there. I was like, well, of course a pandemic is going to happen. Something at some point is going to happen. And so psychologically, we just weren't taken offline at all. And I don't think it stressed me out as much because I had a sense of agency. I had a plan. I'm like, okay, I'm going to survey our food. I'm going to make sure we have water options available and all that type of stuff. Make sure my gas cans are topped off for the tri-fuel generator. And just the fact that you can do something to kind of... One of the best things people can do if they're depressed, just do something. You make a list. It's like put on your shoes.

You do it and you get a little dopamine hit from doing it. And you can kind of bootstrap yourself out of that to some degree. But that's kind of broad. We've had kind of a plan. We don't really have a bug out bag. But when I'm in the car and we go to visit friends, I have a get back home bag. So I'm more concerned about getting home if we're out doing something.

And so it's got like emergency blankets and some food and some water and all that type of stuff. But this EMP thing is interesting. I forget the year. It might've been like 1918, 1919, but there was a coronal mass ejection, like a massive solar flare, and it cooked the telegraph communications around the world because it created in the upper atmosphere this massive

electromagnetic pulse. And people may not realize it, but the reason you're able to listen to a radio wave or listen to a radio station the station broadcasts a radio wave this is an electromagnetic spectrum that goes out and different substances like metal depending on its length and composition can absorb that and when it absorbs it it makes a small electric circuit and then that electric or electric charge and then that is picked up by the amplifier and that is your radio wave any type of wiring metallic material in an emp pulse scenario any type of integrated circuit absorbs the radiation and gets an electric charge in it and it can cook all that stuff so this can happen from the sun having a coronal mass ejection, which happens not that infrequently, actually. And it would cost about a billion dollars for the United States to

harden its infrastructure. So it would be very, very well protected against this, but we've never done this. There was a guy that wrote a book called One Second After. It is a fictional account of what happens one second up to one year after an EMP pulse where one rogue nation detonates a nuclear bomb in the upper atmosphere and it creates an EMP pulse that basically fries every integrated circuit in North America. And you may be like, well, okay, my computer doesn't work. Okay. Your computer doesn't work. Your car doesn't work because if your car is anything newer than like a 1990 or something like that, it's got a chip in it. And so that doesn't work. Chances are the mechanisms that make the water flow to your house don't work um all of the cool gizmos that keep people alive on

uh you know hospitals don't work they turn off immediately to say nothing of the fact that their their electricity goes off um airplanes plummet out of the sky so however many like at any given moment there's like eight eight thousand airplanes flying over the united states they crash immediately because their shit gets cooked so um and they all sound like a complete crazy person but nassim talib makes this this point that um when you think about risk mitigation for your life there's lots of little risks that maybe you can ignore because the the consequences are not that severe but a coronal mass ejection or a like rogue state emp pulse it's a a civilization ending event or at least potentially it is you know and uh in this book it makes the case that within a year the population of the u.s is reduced by 95 just because infrastructure collapses.

Immediately, you have everyone who's a type 1 diabetic is dead within a month because there's no more insulin. Everybody that's on blood pressure meds, everybody that was on ICU units, immediately, you've got a couple of hundred thousand people that die within days or weeks. And then the food system is collapsed and on and on and on. So these are things that if folks live in an urban area, it's more difficult to make preparations around that. But I think that there are a lot of things that you can do just for basic peace of mind and to have a little bit more of a fighting chance. If one of those really catastrophic events went down, I put the likelihood of all of

that as very low, but again, it can be very low likelihood, but massive consequence. And so, it behooves you to do a little bit of risk mitigating around it. Yeah. And at the end of the day, if I have extra sea salt macadamias on hand and some- Crimea River, yeah. Yeah. It's like, all right, cool. Those aren't going to waste. I can check the date on those, cycle them out. I'm going to eat them no matter what. And that's a good point when people are saying, what should they do? If it's something you could do that will improve the quality of your life today and could be

a hedge against problems later, then do it for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's a no brainer. Talk a bit about, you got a podcast that I'll link to on the Great Barrington Declaration that I think is phenomenal because, you know, when I read that, it went through in a very centrist way. It didn't try to explain conspiracy. It didn't try to explain power structures, any of that stuff.

And it even promoted like, hey, vaccine immunization is down because of the fact of how we're handling this. I would lean the other way and say that's not a fucking problem for me. But at the same time, they did a beautiful job of just explaining the hard truths about these shutdowns and what's happening here. And really getting people to stand behind the importance of that without looking away at mental health issues, suicide, alcohol sales going up, and domestic violence going up, and everything else that's been the real threat behind this so-called pandemic. Unpack that for people that don't understand what it is, what people are trying to accomplish from it, and really who's getting behind it.

Sure, and you actually did a really good treatment of it there. But it was initiated by three doctors and researchers. And I'm going to mess this up. But one from Harvard, one from Stanford, and I want to say one from Yale. These are people... And I don't do a ton of appeal to authority. When I'm having a conversation with somebody

and say we're debating a topic, I want the person to be able to be functional with the material. And I don't care. One of the smartest guys I've ever met in my life on metabolism has an HVAC company, but he's probably got a 190 IQ. I am jaw dropped by... He has this operational memory that is so ridiculous. And he's very, very smart in addition to it. So literally, one of the smartest people I know on metabolism is a guy that is self-taught and runs a successful HVAC deal. So I don't do the appeal to authority a lot, but an issue of public health, it's maybe worthwhile to, okay, what are these people's bonafides and whatnot so uh impeccable backgrounds in immunology medicine virology and uh the the the way that

the media damned them was that very early in the pandemic when this stuff was spinning up they had very cautionary messaging around let's not get out over our ski tips let's really make sure that the the uh the the medicine isn't worse than the the thing we're trying to fix and they really just have kind of maintained that that position over time and i really think that the data supports this. And the big problem that I see is yours like like rogan's and whatnot no people will sit down and listen to fucking three or four hours of long form deep discussion and it's the most popular media on the planet right now so that that's not entirely true we're we're selling people short but at the same time people don't recognize that there is a goddamn trade-off with everything like biology is is this perfect illustration of trade-off you know um if you are very fast twitch and very explosive that's great

unless you have a a burning desire to be a world record holding marathoner you will never do it and if you are super slow twitch and you're short and you have a burning desire to be an NBA or WNBA player, you're fucked. You might be able to win a moment where you go out and warm up with them and shoot a basket and that's it. There's just certain constraints there. And within this story of of covid i think in the beginning and i you know i'm not telling anybody they don't know but in the beginning we didn't really know what was going on you know it's like we don't know quite how severe it is although that that's interesting we had really interesting information the stuff out of china was suspect and i i think that that's

reasonable to to assign it as suspect but that that Diamond Princess cruise ship, the numbers that we had out of that almost at week one or within the first month are no different than what we've seen at the population wide basis. We really could have and should have hung a lot more of our hats on that. But at the end of the day, I think what we're finding is whether we lock down super hard or not, like California has had arguably some of the most stringent lockdowns in the United States, and they have some of the most out of control rates of, you know, the disease transmission right now. And that's a whole problem too, where anybody that is flagged as being you know a SARS-CoV-2 virus positive via you know reverse transcriptase

PCR is said to have disease but that's not necessarily the case you know like we have these everything has been stacked from the beginning to be as scary and oblique as possible you know and and but these folks just make the case that there is a yes we need to be wary of overwhelming our hospital systems yes there need to be you know some smart mitigating strategies employed here but uh we've we've already seen that um heart attack deaths have gone up because people aren't going to the hospital for the symptoms of pressure on their chest. They wait and then they die and strokes have increased. We're going to find a huge uptick in various types of cancer mortality in the coming years because early screening and

people not following through with treatment, people not being able to get treatment because the oncology wing has been shut down because of COVID. There's going to be massive collateral damage with this stuff, to say nothing of the economy. And the kind of ironic feature of that is if you make 75, 80 grand a year, in general, you're in a, or north of that, you're generally in a position where you're pretty insulated from this. But all of the restaurant workers and manual labor and like a big box,

or even like mom and pop stores, restaurants, these people are getting absolutely destroyed. And so in a year that we had so much outrage over social justice issues the poorest and most marginalized people are the ones that are being disproportionately damaged from these these closures like without a doubt and people will say that it's a sign of the inherent racism of the united states and i guess maybe that's true but maybe it's a sign of really poor judgment in the way that we rolled out these these measures and and again you know we're nine months down range with this like we we know so much more about it and uh uh yeah i i don't know if that again if that if that really filled it in, but these people had really remarkable credentials.

I think they made a very balanced case around, we are not having a conversation around the collateral damage here. And when people will jump online and they're like, every life matters. It's like, you know, around wearing a mask or, you know, social distancing or what, or what have you. And it's like, okay like okay that that works but teenage suicide is more than double this year what it was last year more than fucking double like it is off the chain and and uh uh the they canceled they the the the folks that administer the the national testing standards for elementary

and high schools they canceled the yearly testing because kids are doing so abysmally poor in school they this is a little bit of an opinion piece they're like well it's too hard to do with covid it can be implemented online just like everything else else. That's bullshit. It's because we're going to have a fucking lost generation of kids on the socialization level, on the fear level, and then also just on their basic education, which the US education system already blows. We don't fill any of very few of our high-end technology slots because our school systems suck and kids aren't good at math and engineering and all that type of stuff. So we're really set back even more. And there is no discussion of, like when I'm making the case that maybe we open up schools

for sure. And if you've got an older teacher who's really concerned about their health, they do some online stewardship and mentoring and tutoring. And then you take these young whippersnapper teachers and you pay them some hazard pay for taking on a little bit more risk. Maybe you accelerate the reduction in their student loan debt, like military hazard pay or something. But there's a lot of different things that we could be doing to plug these different gaps. And the childcare, the school thing is doubly damaging because it's these lower income earning people whose kids are now at school that are being

disproportionately impacted. They're the ones that if they do have a job, they can't go back to work because they've got to watch their kids. And so it's just been this horrible snowball effect. And like you said, this hasn't affected Jeff Bezos in a negative way. But anybody that earns less than 70 grand a year in the United States, it is just a bomb to their lives and livelihoods. And the interesting thing about this Great Barrington Declaration is that it started getting really massively censored on the social media channels. And maybe everything that those folks are saying is wrong maybe they're completely off base but god doesn't it seem like we should have a conversation around stuff like that versus

suppress it make it hide let it only be the conspiracy theorists that that spin in this stuff or is the truth of what they're saying so powerful that it's going to unravel the powers that be that are trying to scare us and move us in these kind of gnarly directions. And again, I fully get that people are dying. I fully get that there's this health danger. Long haul syndrome in COVID is a real deal. People get infected, and then they have higher potential for neurological problems and autoimmune disease but you know what everybody who's caught epstein-barr virus has the same problem everybody who catches influenza has the same problem folks are acting

like long-haul syndrome is something unique to covid but it's it's endemic in all infectious diseases this is a lot of the stuff that doctors have dismissed, like chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia as being just psychosomatic. But it always happens on, or frequently happens on the heels of people getting an infectious disease. And usually, again,

these people didn't have good metabolic health going into it, and it disproportionately negatively impacted them. So yeah, it's a big spicy meatball man and and uh that great barrington declaration seemed to have just died a quiet death like it it had some momentum and then the the the suppression happened on it and it seemingly all of that messaging is just gone now yeah yeah there's uh there it's it's it's odd all right, let's shift gears here. You did another salty talk on Medicare, exponential debt, and of course, some of the grim futures that we see if we actually don't stick our head in the sand like an ostrich, but pay attention to where we're heading financially as a country and as a world, really. You talked a bit about not just this whole podcast, but within that podcast of Salty Talk on the fact that we're not a healthy population. And we have a number of people, a number of baby boomers that are reaching an age where normal aging is not an issue. You're not chronically ill. You're not necessarily on a host of prescription medicines like we see here in the States. But that's not the world we live in. The world we live in is,

you know, we have, you know, outsourced our health to other people who claim to know that have gotten us by and we have a sick care system. And we're about to pay that debt back. So let's talk a bit about that. Yeah. so this is a piece that was compiled by the manhattan institute and it looks at information from the cbo the congressional budget office and uh as government institutions go it's totally non-partisan these are just a bunch of number crunchers and i know that that can be suspect in the age of like everything's a conspiracy theory but i mean this stuff i be suspect in the age of like everything's a conspiracy theory but i mean this stuff i really do get the sense they're different like these are the numbers

these are the facts and it looks at the the national debt that the united states has and this is just kind of an interesting aside that popped up in that piece um 65 percent of the debt that the united states carries currently was acquired in the last year and and that just shows you how much like money you know effectively money printing and all this kind of stimulus stuff has has gone on into this but um the the piece makes the case that there are two elements to our financial future in the United States. And again, Europe faces very similar things. Japan is facing similar things. China's got its own basket of problems that it's going to deal with.

But Social Security is massively underfunded. It always has taken in less than it spends out. And that's only going to get worse. And a good friend of mine, Dave Dooley, actually developed a product called PlanGap, ironically, which is a gap insurance on social security and pensions. And it's the first new insurance product in like 40 years. And they weren't even totally sure initially

if this thing was legal, but they just did that. So there's a possibility of a market-based solution on that side of things. But then the other piece of this is Medicare-related costs in the United States. And it's really healthcare costs across the board. Everything is increasing exponentially in cost. And there's a lot of different features to it. One of them is that post-World War II, the United States, or during World War II, there was a wage freeze within the United States because they didn't want people living here getting paid more than people deployed and putting their lives at risk and stuff like that. They had a wage freeze.

A workaround with that to get better employees for different companies was to give them kind of a juicy benefits package. And this is where, oh, well, we'll give you free healthcare and we'll do this and we'll do that. And prior to this, people largely operated with what are called health savings accounts, where they put money into an account, pre-tax dollars. You go to your doctor. There's a very nominal doctor visit. And the United States had the best and cheapest healthcare in the world for a long time. Then we enacted this thing that developed what's called the third-party payer system, where you're the doctor, I'm the patient, and somebody else is the insurer. You as the doctor know that the insurer isn't going to pay you as much as what

you should get, so you raise your prices. The insurer knows that you're going to raise your prices no matter what, so they deny a certain amount of, hoping you won't follow up on it. And in the whole process, me as the patient, I just kind of get left in the lurch. And they're probably not doing a great job of explaining the third-party payer system. But if you wonder how in the military, a toilet seat can cost $600, it's because of a third-party payer system. It's basically somebody is spending somebody else's money, so they really just don't care. And so in the United States, we have a third-party payer system. And this will oftentimes make people excited about, say, European healthcare models or the Canadian model and whatnot.

They face exactly the same problems that we do. So the payer piece is a big problem. But the fact that an aging and sick population is our reality, costs are increasing at an exponential rate to deal with them. And where we are right now is basically we kind of print money into existence. And I'm sure you can find some economics in one lesson deal that talks about the debt and fractional reserve banking and all that type of stuff. That stuff works until it doesn't. It'll motor along until the whole thing kind of implodes. And we're in a situation right now where the debt that we have and that will grow as a consequence of supporting primarily these two these two social programs people may they hear things like interest rates are at all-time lows uh this is good from the perspective of like

trying to buy a house it's terrible from the perspective of saving a little bit of money each week and trying to have some money left at the end of your retirement because inflation is typically increasing greater than interest rates. But the reason why for the last 15 years, interest rates have gone lower and lower and lower is because we have an interest rate that we have to pay on our national debt. And if the interest rate, the debt is so huge, people, you can't even imagine what billions of dollars are, but trillions of dollars is a thousand billion dollars. And now we're starting to deal with many multiples of that. But when you have a number that that that is that big as a base if the interest rate goes up even a little bit it starts compounding at an exponential rate and if the if the where

this could become a problem there are people that are modern monetary theorists and because the united states is the global reserve currency, like we are accepted as like the standard of currency around the world, that works because everybody else in the world agrees to it right now. And different countries buy our debt each year. Each year, our last bit of debt is paid off with the new bit of debt that we borrow against it. But if there comes a time where we do this auction and nobody is willing to buy the debt, the United States defaults. And more than likely, China, Russia, India, other people around the world get together and create their own reserve currency. And there's a lot of different scenarios that can happen out of that. Maybe the United States

takes a big haircut in its purchasing power and everything that we buy doubles in price overnight and we have to learn how to deal with that. A more likely scenario is that the United States really starts printing money kind of like Weimar Germany at the end of, or I guess leading up to World War I, in which case you can have inflation rates of like 98% per day. So what happens is the whole economy just implodes. Food becomes super scarce. There's all kinds of problems with that.

But this isn't a possibility. It's an eventuality. The big problem with this massive debt is just predicting when the whole thing is going to go tits up. It could be three minutes. It could be 30 more years. But there will be a reckoning with it. There has never not been a scenario in which this stuff didn't come unraveled and some of the stuff that could be done to to fix this is again dealing with the severity of metabolic disease that is the primary driver of the the uh the cost increases there um

people will rail against this they'll they'll say, it's because of evil capitalism or we need socialized medicine or whatever. Again, it's a lot to unpack that. I would just say that if you're really a big fan of socialized medicine or marketized medicine, that you get super educated on what the mechanisms are that are driving the cost increments. And it's not hospital administrators. It's not any of that. It's dealing with the exponential costs that are inherent in trying to treat chronic degenerative disease. That stuff is just really, really expensive to deal with. And there's no two ways around it. And so an interesting side effect of COVID could be that it forces us to address metabolic health because

we have this infection. It's kind of one thing if, well, people are going to die of type 2 diabetes and we've got this thing that might happen in 20 years, that's kind of a long off deal. But if healthcare costs are exploding and people are dying due to an infectious disease that we get in a cyclical pattern every year, that could potentially fire folks up to do something to address that. But I was kind of shocked. I expected to get a bunch of hate mail off of that particular podcast, but I had some of the best feedback I've ever had on that. So the timing again may be good where people are kind of waking up and they're starting to, again, assuming that I'm right about any of this, but if I'm right and

I'm connecting the dots appropriately, then people are seeing the danger there. Like I was talking about maybe being a little bit cocky going into COVID that we were well prepared for it. When I think about what could happen with the US losing reserve currency status with a economic default on the part of the US, terrifies me. Freddy Krueger coming through the window terrifies me. People have no fucking idea of how precarious our systems are and how the whole thing is is perpetuated by debt um the debt has to expand in order to prevent the whole thing from imploding in on itself like the the financial system this is a little bit of what started happening in 2008 when the toxic liabilities within those mortgage-backed securities started domino affecting and it nearly burned the whole economic system down around the

world. And the short story with that is people will starve to death. Businesses will be wiped out. It's super fucking dangerous dangerous and it's like existential threat type stuff people who are very very wealthy would probably be able to navigate it to some degree because they've got a uh gated community that they live in and they're far enough insulated with that but like you're gonna have to be really really far up the the food chain to not be massively affected by that and and also like uh yeah, yeah, I'll just leave it at that. Yeah. Massive.

Thanks for unpacking that, brother. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. Well, we're getting ready to close here, but I want to talk to you about Element, which is absolutely phenomenal. You developed, but you know, all great products are developed out of necessity. So talk a bit about why you developed Element, what makes it so special. And then I'll talk about some of the things that I find absolutely essential with it, including improved sleep.

So yeah. You know, it's funny. So I've always felt best on a low carb kind of ketogenic diet. And I've eaten this way for 22 years. But I always have had a problem fueling kind of glycolytic based stuff, doing jujitsu, doing some Thai boxing. I just didn't have that low gear for doing that. And I try adding some carbs, some peri-workout carbs, pre-workout carbs, and it helped a little bit, but then I would get on a carb roller coaster.

And so I just have always had these challenges there. And I started hanging out with these guys, Tyler Cartwright and Luis Villasenor. They founded a group called Keto Gains. And they just have worked with so many people using a well-formulated ketogenic diet for everything from people losing 300, 400 pounds of body weight over the course of working with them.

I mean, stunning transformations. They have some high-level jujitsu people that they worked with. And so I'm like, hey, guys, look at what I'm doing and let me know what I need to fix. And they looked at it and they're like, you need more electrolytes, specifically sodium. And like anybody does when they have a coach, I completely ignored what they told me. And I'm i'm like oh i salt my food i'm good but they were patient and about a year went by and i was bemoaning my shitty performance in jujitsu and and they're like no really like you need more electrolytes you need way more sodium do this this and this and just get back to us and i did what they told me to do and i was just

shocked it was literally like a light switch was was um all of the kind of lethargy and kind of low energy doing, doing, uh, grappling or, or kind of a glycolytic based workout was gone. My recovery was great. My sleep was better. And so we, you know, these guys knew that this was really important and had known this for a long time, but it was brand new to me. And so we put together this guide that was basically explaining the need for electrolytes, specifically sodium, particularly under these kind of low-carbohydrate circumstances. And we had this downloadable guide, and we had like a half million downloads of this thing. It went great guns. People loved it because I was just recognizing that 95, 98% of the problems that people experience on a low-carb diet, like thyroid-type issues and sleep disturbance and low energy, was

all lack of sodium-driven, lack of electrolytes. So we started putting this thing out, and we explained how to do a homebrew. You do some salt. You do some no salt. You do some magnesium citrate and put a little stevia in it to sweeten it super popular but then we started getting tagged on social media where people are like hey guys love the guide love the keto aid which is is what we called it but they're like i was going through tsa and they didn't like my three bags of white powder lol you know they would have my three bags of white powder, LOL, you know, they would have like three

bags of white powder there. So I was like, man, I wonder if there's like a need for some sort of a, a like convenient, you know, stick pack type deal. So we started kind of researching it and, and what we did when we formulated the first one, which was a citrus salt base, we formulated it. So if it sucked as an electrolyte, like people didn't want to use it, we could pivot and use it as a margarita drink mix. And so that was literally the birth of Element, I guess, two and a half, three years ago as a company. And it's just going great guns. We really found a pain point for people and addressed it in a way that most electrolytes just aren't addressing.

And we still have our free homebrew keto aid guide out there that still does really well. But it's been really cool to see both the performance side of this stuff, you know, like people who've been struggling with performance really benefiting. But we've had a couple of different medical conditions like POTS, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. It's a scenario where the person goes from seated to standing and they will become lightheaded and pass out. And they can die from this because they get head injuries. And in the POTS community, and it mainly affects kids, but it can affect adults. It's understood that sodium is really, really important, but it's hard to get enough sodium in from standard dietary sources. So one day, we just started noticing our social media blowing up with these folks tagging us in these POTS awareness deal. And there's been a couple of other interesting, very health-related verticals that we had no idea would be beneficial here,

but we've really gotten a lot of love from those folks. And sleep has been one of the biggies that we've heard about. Chris Masterjohn did a piece maybe two years ago talking about consuming half a gram to a gram of sodium immediately before bed in just a scant amount of water suppresses adrenal function in a way that will, one, you won't get up to pee in the middle of the night, but two, you'll get deeper, more restful sleep. So we've definitely heard that feedback. Yeah, that's blown me away. I typically, I mean, I have, I think, I don't know if it's you with master John or you with our homie, Dr. Paul Saladino, but you were talking about, you know, especially for lower carb people, five to 15 grams a day is where you want to get to. And I was like, well, shit, I, you know, I go through a half a gallon

of water with a, with a teaspoon. So that's about five grams. I'll do that twice. I heavily salt my food. I should be good, but I was still getting up to piss once or twice every night, you know? And then now that I've done that, uh, and oddly I like the citrus salt reminds me of Gatorade when I was a kid, you know, the lemon lime flavor. It's, it's still the, it's the best, it's the OG, right? It's like, it's the best one, but I've been slamming that for the past week right before bed. And I'm probably having a bit more water than master John is, is recommending. But I mean,

I sleep all through the night. I'm, I'm knocked out and I wake up feeling fantastic, but there's no getting them to go to the bathroom. And I'm, I'm easily getting over 15 grams. Obviously I'm a bigger dude and I'm doing a lot, but easily going over 15 grams a day from really good salt sources and still

have that requirement. Like, let me have this nighttime cocktail with my other nighttime cocktail. And, uh, it works like magic. It's a phenomenal, phenomenal product. That's cool. And, you know, people ask sometimes they're like, well, from a ancestral perspective, where does this fit in? And I don't have a super good answer to that.

Like it could be that maybe, um, chronically we, be that maybe chronically we didn't actually have low-carb scenario all the time. One thing that I've been working on is looking at the sodium content of conventional meat versus... Depending on how you butcher meat, it can have half or double the amount of sodium in it. So if you bleed an animal, which we typically do in the West, the bulk of the sodium that an animal carries is in the extracellular fluid. So that all goes out of the animal when it's butchered. But if an animal is killed via traditional hunting methods, and it takes longer to butcher and process the animal,

the potassium inside the cells goes outside, the sodium outside the cells goes inside and they tend to equilibrate and so conventional meat has about a gram of sodium per kilogram of of meat um the my back of the envelope but i think pretty credible estimate is you get either double or triple that at least from uh you know allowing the the fluids to equilibrate so that's a place and then there does seem to be some pretty good indication that um salt licks and and even some trade around salt existed even in in paleolithic times but it is a question that pops up because i'm like the paleo guy and you know try to couch stuff in that that regard could also just be that uh we do know and and it's it's worth mentioning that uh people who are put on a medically supervised ketogenic diet their dietician makes certain that they um they get at least five grams of sodium a day

so this and so we don't see all of these problems within say like epileptic children managed under medically supervised ketogenic diets. And so I think that this is a major piece of the ketogenic or low carb diet that got lost in the shuffle of just focusing on protein, carbs, fat. Yeah.

And I think too, from the ancestral standpoint, when we think about carrying, you know, pre-refrigeration, pre-shipping, things like that, there was a lot of salt cures. There was a lot of ways we'd have to preserve that naturally. You know, even looking at things like pemmican, you know, lame deer, secret visions. He talks about that.

Like his diet, breakfast, lunch, and dinner was pemmican. It was buffalo, maybe some blueberries, a little extra fat, and it was all heavily salted. Yep. You know, that's what they had all day, every day, you know, it was like the main course, um, until they started getting rations of coffee and rice and other shit that is not necessarily good. It ruined everything. Yeah. Well, Rob, it's been, it's been so great getting you on here. Um, absolutely love your work, love what you're doing. And,. And hopefully I can get down to see you and get on the mats with you at some point since you're not too far from me now. That'd be

awesome. We're a short drive, so let's do it. Yeah. Thank you.