Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #187 Ben Pakulski

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up, what's up, everybody? We are back with a long-awaited guest. Mr. Ben Pekulski has finally made it onto the show. Ben is somebody that I've been following for the last two or three years. I met him in similar friend circles at Paleo FX, as I have many of the guests on the show. Just an amazing human being, elite level bodybuilder who has followed a very similar trajectory to myself in, you know, even with

Starting point is 00:00:34 this podcast, you know, really on the cutting edge of optimization and fitness and muscular development. And of course, transitioning much more into the greater landscape of the inner world, mental, emotional, and spiritual. Just a fantastic guest. I know you guys are going to dig this one. There's a number of ways you guys can support this podcast. Click subscribe. Don't miss an episode. Leave us a five-star rating with one or two ways the show has helped you out in life and support our sponsors. If you had bad gas lately, I know this may be an uncomfortable topic. The only reason I bring it up is because bad gas is a sign you have undigested food fermenting in your gut. No bueno. This is occasionally a problem for

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Starting point is 00:04:03 And we want to see that get up to at least 60 to 70. So here we go. We will get to have a proper look at that and see what's next. We're also brought to you today by PowerDot. PowerDot can help improve muscle recovery, supplement strength training, and effectively warm up the muscles to improve post-activation performance, helping you ensure you're getting the most out of your athletic performance.

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Starting point is 00:08:04 And in the wake of that experience, there's been a lot of people left on the outside that have wanted in. They want extra content. They want to dive deep. They want the Zoom calls. They want the one to two hour Q&As. They want all the stuff that we are doing and we are doing it now via our Fit for Service Academy app. It's available over at iTunes on Apple Store, Apple's App Store. Is that right? That's how that works. Apple's App Store, as well as over in the other one, Android App Stores and online. So you can get it on your computer or your smartphone.

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Starting point is 00:09:41 Fit for Service Academy app is live. And without further ado, my man, Ben Pakulski. Ben Pakulski, welcome to the show, brother. I'm super grateful we finally get to sit down and do it, brother. Fuck yeah, it's been a minute.

Starting point is 00:10:00 I think we met like two years ago at Paleo FX or something like that. Yeah. Been running into each other there, but always running around like chickens with their head cut off. Seems that way, right? Yeah. I'm learning right now actually to do that less, to schedule myself less and be able to just be present more often. That's perfect mirroring.

Starting point is 00:10:17 That's how I started the year and I'm hoping to just sustain that. One of the things I realized having two kids, and I know you're a dad, so I want to get, pick your brain on this, but when we have weekends fully present, you know, Greenfield, our buddy taught me that like the second his kids are home from school, you're a hundred percent invested. There's no text messages. There's no emails. You're there with them. And I've, I've done a good job embodying that, but there's no real time. Like if our son's five and just a ball of energy. And so there's no real time for my wife and I outside of that on the weekends and when he's there.

Starting point is 00:10:56 So I'm just taking Mondays off while he's in school. And that gives us time, you know, just full day to hang, to do yoga, to connect, to be intimate and to play with the little girl. So it's been, it's been that one move, just one day a week creates so much more space throughout the week. And connection, man. It's so many, so common when you hear parents, you know, new parents, their relationships just starts to fade away, right? Cause they don't make time. Like I'm busy, I'm tired. I have shit to do. I have to make money and they don't make time for the relationship and it fades and and uh it happened to me actually and i don't talk about it a lot but um you know it was very much a reality the sex life goes out the window and then you know your eyes start to wander a little bit and like you know it never was promiscuous in any way but you just start to

Starting point is 00:11:36 wonder like you know is this ever going to work again and you know for me unfortunately it didn't um and i'd never shared that before publicly but but yeah, it was, it's definitely, I think that played a role, right. Is not having any experience, not really having anyone to mentor me and go like, Hey man, you need to carve time. You need to make sure you invest in that relationship or it's going to go away. Yeah. Yeah. That's a hard one. There's no real, I mean, I think a community is such an important piece of things that we miss now. Obviously when we dive into plant medicines and things like that, we learn about these rituals and rites of passage and how there was an honoring of boyhood to manhood

Starting point is 00:12:12 and how community held that all together. And even outside of the rites of passages and the ceremony aspects, there still was elders in place and aunties and uncles. And there was a village to help raise the kids and honor parents to still be able to go work in the fields and do whatever they needed to do to feel like they had themselves and then connect with their kids.

Starting point is 00:12:34 And that's tough. I think we're trying to build that, right? It seems like modern culture has kind of moved away from that because you just move into these beautiful suburbs where you probably don't know your neighbors at all. And there's probably no one that you have anything in common with and

Starting point is 00:12:46 so you don't really talk to anybody it's usually like a wave as you drive past but you know if you're if you're conscious of it you start creating these communities of curated friends and people that you have parallel values with and and we're doing it you know we i think we both run in very similar circles and hopefully it works out such that your kids my kids end up can play we can play together we can have you know people who we we trust and rely on that aren't just our biological family. They know if they go anywhere in the world, they've got this family, right? And we're building one. Like I told you, people I came from today, it's like I'm building one here in Austin and I trust those people in my life. They'll be lifelong friends and I hope my kids can interact and integrate

Starting point is 00:13:21 into their life and vice versa, right? And that's a beautiful thing that I never had. And I didn't even realize it was like an objective, right? It's just, no, this is, I just kind of meandered through life as the lone soldier. And to now have people that actually love you and care about you on a deep level is a blessing. And it is a lot of it in part, the connection through plant medicines.

Starting point is 00:13:41 Yeah, yeah. I mean, what a bonding experience for sure. Let's backtrack a little bit and talk about growing up because, you know, I always start, there is, I guess, a structure to the podcast typically is just that I love getting to hear like how people grew up, what drove them, you know, what drove you to become a bodybuilder. And obviously I think there's some parallels between us with what I did with fighting as the impetus to want to learn and grow and what you've done in bodybuilding to want to learn and grow. That's paralleled in many ways because I'm not like a lot of fighters and you're not like a lot of bodybuilders. So let's dive into that.

Starting point is 00:14:18 That pain and fear for me, right? So both of my parents were for the most part absent in my childhood. I was raised by my grandparents and I had a lot of fear. My dad had maybe the most explosive temper of anyone I've ever met or seen. And so my response, rather than being afraid or crying, I was certainly afraid, I would just stand there and shake. So I had internalized all this fear and I didn't want to express my sadness or my fear outwardly. So I just stood there and shook. And so then that carried through from the time I was three all the way up until, or maybe before three, all the way up until I was about 19. Anytime I'd encounter an adult, I would become nervous.

Starting point is 00:14:56 I had this association like anyone who's a quote unquote authority figure, I just would stand in front of them and shake. So it was hard for me to speak. And so I, you know, attached this character that I had a speech impediment. So I was like, oh, you know, I have this, this thing. And I didn't, I just didn't realize it was just fear that I didn't associate with my dad, just having this really explosive temper. So bodybuilding was a way for me to overcome fear and particularly of my dad. Like I remember the day when I stood in front of him, wasn't afraid he was going to kick my ass. And that was bodybuilding,

Starting point is 00:15:29 man. Like I was like, you can do whatever you want, but I'm going to fucking hurt you if you come, if you come at me. And that was something that came through bodybuilding. Bodybuilding for me was instant. It was an instant love that I'm very much close to instant.

Starting point is 00:15:41 I would say as soon as I did it, I was training twice a day, every day. Like, and it wasn't, it wasn't the intention of being a bodybuilder in the beginning, but it was like, I'm getting faster and stronger and bigger. And I love this.

Starting point is 00:15:51 And I was hooked. And then, you know, shortly thereafter, it was this desire to become Mr. Olympia. But yeah, that was probably the root of it all. It's just, I was an incredibly fearful kid. And I think it probably came from a lot of things, but I wouldn't ever outwardly express my fear. Like I said, I always built this armor, even when I was a kid of like, I'm strong and I was just sad and afraid. Yeah. So that's,

Starting point is 00:16:16 I think it was the precipice for bodybuilding for me, man. And I discovered it and I was like, there was nothing else I wanted to do. I had scholarship for baseball. I was like, I stopped everything. I put on this huge amount of muscle in a short amount of time because I went from being a long distance runner who was a vegetarian to being a bodybuilder who ate meat six times a day. In the span of three months, I put on like 50, 40, 40 pounds or 45 pounds.

Starting point is 00:16:37 Damn. Yeah, that's like a slingshot effect where you're just pulling yourself back, back, back, back, and then slingshot. I would run every morning. You'll get this probably like I would wake up every in Canada. So it's freezing. I'd wake up every morning between four 30 and five and just run until I puked and then come home and get ready for school and then go to school. And that was my brain. I was like, that's how I was my outlet of like pain. So I literally run. And you know,

Starting point is 00:17:00 if you grew up in the culinary group, but like the burning lungs, or if you can feel the blood in your lungs and you're spitting it up and you're just like, yep, I want that every day. Who knows where that came from? But that was my outlet for pain. And then I turned that into that in bodybuilding, right? I would go as hard or as deep as I could. And looking back at it, man, I'm so grateful for the experiences my dad gave me and gave me a gear that most humans don't know, right? It's like, I can go to that dark place

Starting point is 00:17:28 and most people just aren't willing to go there. They don't even know they have it. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. And again, I'm sure that's why we're kindred souls, man. It's like some people you just know when you walk into a room, like that guy's got that gear and I respect you for it, right?

Starting point is 00:17:39 And I always say to people, when you walk into a room, you spot the alpha male, you walk over and shake his hand and I honor you. And I think that I've been doing that intuitively since I was a kid or maybe call it 19 or something. But that's kind of where this all came from for me. And you're still involved in the sport. Talk about the bridge from wanting, obviously, the impetus to change the avatar to show like, hey, you can't fuck with me anymore.

Starting point is 00:18:07 Like I'm good now. And setting that in place into really what fueled your knowledge to learn more about everything. I mean, your podcast has changed in the last couple of years. You've been doing this for a long time. Talk about that. I was really bad at bodybuilding.

Starting point is 00:18:22 So keep in mind, when I was a kid, I didn't say this, but I had in mind when I was a kid I didn't say this but I had you know what people told me was a learning disability so I was told I was dyslexic

Starting point is 00:18:30 and had a learning disability the speech impediment and I was fat and that was because I ate like shit really like I had no restrictions on my eating at all

Starting point is 00:18:39 I could eat whatever the hell I wanted you know and with that the huge amount of stress I had from these dysfunctional relationships, dysfunctional parenting,

Starting point is 00:18:46 caused sympathetic arousal. I was constantly in a sympathetic state, eating like shit. So what do you think your ability to learn is going to be, right? So they put you into this box and say you have a learning disability. So when I started training,

Starting point is 00:18:59 I mean, I wasn't in bad shape at 16 when I started training because I had been doing all the running and I'd put a lot of sports, but I didn't think I was a good bodybuilder I didn't think I had the potential to build muscle like some of these other guys I see you know you're looking at these these top bodybuilders I'm like man they're genetically blessed they don't have that um so I took it upon myself so I'm the type of person who um I don't like taking no for an answer and uh so I was like okay whatever

Starting point is 00:19:22 it's going to take I'm going to do that And so I just started on this journey of learning. I studied in school. I read everything I could because I'm not taking no for an answer. I said, well, whatever's standing in my way, I will find the solution, the best solution. And I was looking for mentors. I was looking for people within bodybuilding to go, who knows training and nutrition and supplementation and all of it the best? There wasn't one. There was this disjointed, like, this guy's really good at training, maybe. And this guy's really good at nutrition. This guy's good at this thing. And so I started kind of compiling this community of people who could, you know, lead me and

Starting point is 00:19:55 mentor me. And I was so blessed for the people that I've encountered along the way, you know, stand on the shoulders of giants, man. These people, I literally say they're my angels that came into my life that probably saved me from, you know, if I would have not succeeded in bodybuilding, who knows, right? Every one of my family's an alcoholic or a drug addict or something.

Starting point is 00:20:11 So who knows what that would look like. But yeah, I was very blessed to learn. And then, you know, come 2012, I'd stepped on the Mr. Olympia stage for the first time, thinking that this was gonna be like the greatest day of my life. And it certainly was. Like I certainly celebrated my accomplishments, but I realized it wasn't fulfilling to me, right?

Starting point is 00:20:31 It's like making money. Like I want to make a million bucks and I'll be happy. Not true, right? So I stepped on stage at Olympia and realized like it was empty. I felt alone and I didn't feel like I was fulfilled and I wasn't happy. Again, I was grateful for the accomplishment and who I'd become in the process, but I realized it wasn't for me. And so within 18 months in 2012 through June, 2013, my son was born January 4th, 2012. I did the Arnold that year, I did the Olympia. My daughter was born July, 2013. So within this 18 month span, I went from being a guy who was

Starting point is 00:21:04 only interested in myself being the best bodybuilder in the world I was completely there's nothing else no one else mattered I was very selfish and I was very

Starting point is 00:21:12 open about that and I went from in 18 months doing that to just completely flipping it I was like this isn't for me

Starting point is 00:21:19 you know my children opened my heart so I think I never experienced love in my life I didn't know what it was I was the lone wolf and it just blew my heart. So I think I never experienced love in my life. I didn't know what it was. I was the lone wolf and it just blew my heart open. And I didn't know it was possible.

Starting point is 00:21:31 So all those things kind of accumulated in me, realizing there's more to life than just being a meathead. And I started pursuing the internal journey, right? You call it the two mountains, right? You ascend the first one like money or any external goods, external material goods. And you realize, well, that's not right, man. Like you got it great two mountains, right? You ascend the first one like money or any external goods, external material goods. And you realize, well, that's not right, man. Like you got it great.

Starting point is 00:21:49 That's awesome. Not fulfilling. Okay, now the next mountain is this internal mountain, this internal journey of, I want to explore who I am. Who am I? Am I a soul?

Starting point is 00:21:57 And how do I connect with myself and people who are on the same journey as me? That's kind of where I end up now. Yeah, that second mountain is a lot harder than the first. Right. It really is. Yeah. And that's the beauty of it though, because it never ends, right? I don't ever expect it to achieve it. I think there may be no end result, but it's this beautiful opportunity and you get it, man. You're a process guy too. I'm not about the end result now. I'm

Starting point is 00:22:20 like, how deep can I go into this process and how much can I master this process? And that's physical and mental and spiritual and all of it, right? And that's it. It's just the journey, man. Yeah. That flowering has been, every time I think that there will be an end point to it, the plants or the chemicals remind me that, no, no, this goes on for infinity. It's infinite knowing, infinite know thyself for eternity. Yeah. And I'm still new to the plant stuff. Like I didn't really ever touch anything until 2017, I think. I'm still really new

Starting point is 00:22:52 and I haven't done anything consistently or often. And I think just now in my life, I'm getting to the point, as you said, you hear in my podcast, it's like it's shifting into realizing the power of these things. Because I grew up very much against it, like most people did. I didn't smoke smoke weed i didn't do anything drug waste

Starting point is 00:23:08 um i just thought it was bad like drugs are bad drugs kill your brain i was like i don't do that stuff and so until i was 35 i i just didn't touch it um so now i'm very interested and you know leading learning from people like yourself who have some experiences and i'm like i trust your judgment on things. And I'm like, yeah, man, like if I, if I ever want to do something significant, I'm like, you're the first guy I'm going to call, right. Or one of certainly. So I hope to explore those things at a deeper level. Cause every time I do, I just go deeper and deeper. And you're just like the innate knowing and the innate lessons that are built in is just so beautiful. And I, and I don't, I don't suggest

Starting point is 00:23:44 this to a lot of people where right? I don't even talk about it on my podcast because I know that, and you'll get this as a pro fighter, that at some point in your early career, you had someone who you looked up to. Like when you're 16, 17, 18, starting and fighting or however old you were, there's some like pro who you looked up to. And like you probably said and did everything they did, right? Like this guy, I want to be like that guy. And I know there's people out there who think that about me. And so if I go on my podcast and start talking about,

Starting point is 00:24:10 hey man, I just did this ayahuasca, I did this LSD and I did this ketamine. I don't want that 17 year old kid to go, oh, I should do that too. Like, I don't, I just don't know that it's right. I just don't know that everyone, it's not right for everyone at that time. And I think it's immoral of me to talk about it

Starting point is 00:24:24 without like quantifying that and qualifying that. Yeah, there's, there's for sure. And it goes beyond a disclaimer, right? It's, it's, it's, it's hard to encapsulate what the entire container looks like. You know, I just did a, a talk with Dr. Dan Stickler and Cole Witte and Brian Maruscu, who wrote The Immortality Key.

Starting point is 00:24:45 Yeah, have you read that? Yeah, yeah. Great book, I'm actually reading it right now. Phenomenal, dude. It's so good. It's one of my favorites. But of course, I heard Brian on Rogans and immediately got the book on Audible.

Starting point is 00:24:55 But we did this talk on Clubhouse, which is like my first time interacting on what appears to be like a live stream podcasting version of social media. And it really went really well. There was great questions, but that was a lot of the question that came up. And even just riffing off the top of my head

Starting point is 00:25:11 to give an answer while there's still other speakers in the wake, you know, and Cole's doing a great job of managing who's going to field which questions. And, you know, Dan went first and he hit it from the medical side. And I tried to hit it from like the, all right, if you don't have access to Dr. Dan Stickler,

Starting point is 00:25:24 if you're not a part of a study with maps and you do get ahold of some stuff to do by yourself, these are some key pieces. Still, you know, an entire book could be written on container and it would still leave out the container because it's always personal, right? Like the beauty of my journeys going the way that they did was not only how I entered into it, but it was my outlook throughout it and afterwards, right? The hardest shit we were talking about the hard, and I'm going to do a solo podcast on this soon, really talking about the hardest experience of my life that lasted two and

Starting point is 00:25:57 a half weeks. If I don't have a sharp sword through all of my integration and life practices. Yeah, and a good strong community of people that you know, accept you and love you. Yeah, exactly. A really strong community to be able to call Paul Cech like he's on fucking speed dial to get my ass out of jail here.

Starting point is 00:26:14 Not everyone has that, man. Yeah, not everyone has that. So like, that's an important thing to talk about as well because, you know, and when that happened, you know, I'm 38 years old. I have 10 years plus of working with these medicines. And then I get hit with the kitchen sink. Thankfully, I think that these medicines are a form of highly intelligent consciousness.

Starting point is 00:26:34 They are their own awareness. And I think that you get what you need, but there are outliers. There are people who get more than they can handle per se and they don't have the right care. And not everyone, as Cole mentioned, not everybody you go to in the Amazon has your best interest in mind. There's charlatans all over the fucking world. So lots of stuff to be mindful of with that.

Starting point is 00:26:59 But one thing that's really cool too in waiting is Michael Pollan who wrote, oh God, what did he write? Remember the name of his book? I know the book. This is great. I forget. I'll remember. Dinged in the head once or twice.

Starting point is 00:27:18 Yeah. How to Change Your Mind. Yeah. In How to Change Your Mind, he talked about how much gratitude he had for waiting until he was 65. And at first I scoffed at that. I was like, no, fuck that, man. I've gained so much in the last 13, 14 years from this. But for me, it came at the perfect time.

Starting point is 00:27:37 And for him, it came at the perfect time. And yes, if I put myself in his shoes and had 65 years of regular life before being exposed, that would be an avalanche of information. I'd be like, wow, I'd have to write a book about it. Right. You know, like that. So I get it. But there's plenty of time to wait, you know, and I know we've got younger people listening to the show, even though I curse like a sailor. 28 years old is when the brain finishes developing.

Starting point is 00:28:06 We all know someone who is in that space, in the psychedelic realm, and they're broken, right? They're not grounded. They're not able to make ends meet in life. Oftentimes they're struggling. And maybe that's their journey and that's their choice. But I just think people should always be conscious enough

Starting point is 00:28:23 to make that decision themselves. And I don't know that at 17 or 19 or even 25, I would have been able to do that, right? So I always, like I say, come with that disclaimer of, before you dive into those things, just consider all the stuff. Listen to your podcast. It's probably a good place to start.

Starting point is 00:28:40 Yeah, there's a... Man, where was I gonna go with this? I'm drawing a blank again. Yeah, I was fortunate when I was younger, having like the blip post-college with mushrooms in Sedona and just being in nature. I mean, no correct intention. We were doing cocaine the night before and pounding beers.

Starting point is 00:29:00 Woke up, threw my mushrooms into an omelet and got everyone there. And I'm like, it's a an omelet and got everyone there. And I'm like, they're mushroom. It's a mushroom omelet made in a Coleman. No respect, no reverence, no intention setting. And thankfully the land held us. And that was one of the first like breakthrough experiences I've had. But, you know, the bulk of my entry into medicine was being under the guidance of a medicine man, my boxing coach, who, there's Guapo man sounding off Uncle Christian's here. The bulk of my experiences were initially with a guy who was my coach and loved me dearly and had decades of working with medicine. Right. working with medicine, you know, and was a Mayan elder, you know, like that's a whole different ball game to be, to be, you know, grandfathered in that way than most people get. So plenty there.

Starting point is 00:29:52 Oh, I do, I do know what I wanted to say. There is one of the best fucking videos I've ever seen on the cautionary tale of plant medicines and ecstatic experience. So MDMA, the chasing of the festival life, right? He dives into all this stuff and it's really important. The video came out about a year ago. I'm going to have Jose link to it in the show notes. It's a YouTube video. It's phenomenal. Jamie's just hanging out at an airport, getting ready to go snowboard in Boulder. And he's like, oh, by the way, I want to let you guys know all these things about the pitfalls of plant medicines and experiences. And he just dives into all of it.

Starting point is 00:30:33 And it's so perfect now because a lot of people have, myself included, prescription ketamine, nasal spray, things like that. And that's probably better than street ketamine considering that fentanyl is going into it now, shit like that. Three people died last year of ketamine. You can't really overdose on it. It's one of the safest chemicals, but if it's cut with something else, you can overdose. If you are combining different techniques like breath locks and things like that, and you don't have a spotter. I mean, people have died doing Wim Hof training if they don't have a spotter and they're doing a breath hold underwater. And he's been the first since day one, he said, don't do that. Always have a

Starting point is 00:31:11 spotter if you try a breath hold underwater and don't do a breath hold underwater unless you're a free diver. This isn't for the masses. But all that to say, there's the disclaimer. I will link to that. It is a phenomenal video, even for the most experienced person. Like I was looking at that and just really reflecting on, you know, what is my pace? How often do I want to go back to the wishing well? And even though I have steps to integrate,

Starting point is 00:31:37 am I giving it enough space to fully integrate? And one of the things that we get caught up in, not you, cause you're just getting into it, but down the road is the question mark that we all have of, okay, if this experience answers all my questions and then some, do I wait to then have that experience again to answer through my intuition and my inner knowing, what Jung called the daemon. And I had a long podcast with Eric Godsey on this, talking about the daemon and the higher self, the soul, whatever you want to call that. But when you build the bridge to that inner knowing, that happens while you're on the shitter. It happens while you're walking the dogs. It happens when you're playing with your kids. It doesn't happen the next time you go to the Amazon. And I don't want to wait like I used to three to six months to get that information and I don't have to. So I think that's an important piece for people

Starting point is 00:32:30 to lean on is like, look, yeah, when you take important life decisions to the medicine, that's the perfect time to go. So yeah, all that to say disclaimers, that kind of good stuff. But I think that there's an important piece on frequency there that Jamie dives into. You can bring the kitchen sink. You can be going through a divorce. You can have just lost a loved one to death. And that can be some of the most beautiful and challenging times to get into those experiences. And then also knowing that it is our responsibility to be able to sit with the funk, to not lean on things as the only way out because eventually they become that

Starting point is 00:33:09 and eventually they stop working for us. So that's a question that I have for you actually. And I think I struggle with this a little bit is at what point is it an escape versus a tool? And I think just personally, I always maybe go back and forth on my mind of how often should i do it and you know am i using this to grow or am i actually just using this because i want an experience or like what is it and i literally still i'm playing with

Starting point is 00:33:35 that it's like this paradigm of of you know not wanting to do it too much because i want to have the integration so when i do it i make sure like I do it right. Like my dosages are significant. So I get the bliss, I get the pain, I get all of the... The buckle up, I'm no longer in control dose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which varies for everyone, but yeah, that's the move. When you're going to do it, you do it, right? And the people are like, oh, I'm just going to do it and go hang out. I'm like, well, what's the point of that? Like, I'm not done. I want to go and actually benefit from this and I expect discomfort and I expect challenges, but I also expect lessons.

Starting point is 00:34:09 Then I, you know, I'll journal and reintegrate that into my life. So I'll pick your brain on that a little bit. It's like, how do you know? Like, how do you know how often you do it? That's one good thing to look is to review from the last one. You know, especially when you take notes

Starting point is 00:34:24 on whatever those messages were a prime example was we were doing ayahuasca for about once a month for six months and towards the end of the last three sessions it kept telling me do meditation and yoga

Starting point is 00:34:38 and the third time I'm like why the fuck do you keep telling me the same thing and the answer was because you haven't started it yet. You don't get to graduate. You don't get new information until you actually implement the things I'm asking you to. And so I was a very stern teacher in that, but you don't need the medicine itself. I could have done that better simply by reviewing what those messages were in my notes and then seeing if I actually spent the time integrating that and doing that. And how did that change my life? To self-reflect upon the changes that I make, because some of it's good and some of it maybe needs to be reworked. But with that,

Starting point is 00:35:18 if it's actually, if I'm bringing it to 3D reality, where I can put one foot in front of the other and actually integrate the things, the lessons that I'm getting, then I can look back and say like, cool, let's change my life X, Y, Z, or maybe just in one simple way. And with enough time, there's that calling, like a hunger. You don't need to, just because access has made things so different too. If we were in a tribal setting, elders would determine when we go, you know, if we had a mentorship under somebody who was a correndero,

Starting point is 00:35:53 they would determine when we go. And, and it's not just a, you know, Oh, I got my hand raised. I'm ready. I want more.

Starting point is 00:35:58 It's like, settle down little guy. You got to wait a little while. Let's see some X, Y, and Z happen. Exactly. Those kinds of things.

Starting point is 00:36:04 So without that, and Z happen. Exactly. Those kinds of things. So without that and with the potentials for your own pharmacopoeia at easy access, we can get into that. That's why Jamie Will talked about the hedonic calendar in Stealing Fire. But for me too, I'm more, I like, I want to be called to it. I just don't want to do it because it's on the calendar. Like, hey, it's been six months. It's time to go now and do this. So I never got into the hedonic calendar with exception to a microdosing schedule

Starting point is 00:36:31 I did for a couple of months after Jim Fadiman's book, Psychedelic Explorer's Guide. Outside of that, it really is like, I want to feel hungry for it. And I don't want to go to the buffet and get stuffed. You know, I want to feel that appetite build, the calling build, have many reasons to go, not one. One thing that I've noticed, and you'll notice this too, in circles are that there, there will be a group of a percentage of people who look like they're in the same space they were last time.

Starting point is 00:36:58 You know, they're still going through the same stuff. And quite often you'll hear an intention that's almost verbatim what it was last time, or something very plain like, oh, you know, I'm just, I just, you know, I'm curious, or I really just want to see what it has to offer me today. Or, you know, non-specific is great, but have it be specific enough for your life that it gives you a focal point. You know, Tate Fletcher joked with me, he was like, we were saying intentions in a circle once for mushrooms.

Starting point is 00:37:28 And he was like, he said his intention, he goes, you know, none of this shit actually matters. It's just going to show me whatever the fuck it wants to show me. And we all burst out laughing. And I was like, true. However, there's a compass point. If I have that intention where, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:42 you're blasted off into the sea and you're seeing all these great things and learning these things. And then it's like, oh, wait, I also was here for this. There is this one core issue or these three core issues that I really want to look at. And with that, those things start to unfold and flower. And that's the real reason you sign up in the first place. You know, if there's no real reason to sign up in the first place other than to go to the movies and watch something cool, that's not maybe the best intention. Yeah, totally, man. One thing I'll say about you is the growth that I've seen witnessing you from afar. And then obviously being here with you now is tremendous. And that's, I think there's something to be garnered from that

Starting point is 00:38:17 to watch people who you can actually watch. And same with Aubrey, right? I don't know Aubrey well, but his transformation has been, you know, but you could see it and you could hear it in the way he speaks and his authenticity is completely shifted. And I think these are the people that I'm like, oh, this is why you guys are doing what you do and why you're leaders. And I think it's cool. And, um, so modeling what you're doing is, um, is interesting because you're right. There's so many people, including people that, that, uh, qualify themselves as spiritual. Uh, and just like, well, you're just like off in space somewhere. There's no actual progress in any area of your life.

Starting point is 00:38:45 So thank you for what you do. Yeah, thank you, brother. Yeah, well, let's bridge again back just a little ways between where you're at now and these giants that you learned from, the giants that you learned from, from the physical to the mental, emotional, and spiritual and just how those seeds planted new seeds

Starting point is 00:39:07 and really just where these giants helped you to unfold this transitionary period from solely focused on the physical and the body and looking into different avenues. One of the conversations that I'm thinking of was that just blew me away. It was when we were chatting about our kids and I think you had asked about jujitsu

Starting point is 00:39:24 and you asked if Bear was in Muay Thai. And I was like no not yet i know i want to teach him striking and there's an importance to that but i think jujitsu is better because of the flow and then you said well muay thai is awesome because it's systematic it's mathematical they're learning patterns they're learning how to repeat those patterns and i was like fuck dude that's brilliant i never thought of it that way and that you know and the cross body patterning is also integrative in the brain right you're sinking

Starting point is 00:39:47 in the left and right hemisphere so my son is very much into hockey and his coach makes him do these really complex drills where you have to remember like 14 different

Starting point is 00:39:56 consecutive pieces of this drill and he's like I couldn't remember it and his brain's just like boom boom boom same thing in Muay Thai you get it

Starting point is 00:40:03 like you know it's like combo one boom and then like combo of seven like whatever you're calling out and he just just knocking them out um it's pretty awesome to watch their little brains just get fired up my daughter's doing it now too but yeah i'm very much the things we do so i think because you and i have both achieved relative success in uh our endeavors i don't know about you but i have no attachment to if he becomes a pro athlete. 100%. I just want to be happy.

Starting point is 00:40:27 And because I accomplished that, you know, I think it was, I've heard Paul Cech say this for the first time, I don't know if he's quoted Rumi or someone, maybe it was Mark Twain,

Starting point is 00:40:35 you know, children are tasked with the unfulfilled dreams of their parents, some paraphrase of that quote. But so many people fail at their dreams and now they're going to try

Starting point is 00:40:43 to impart that on their kids. But because, you know, I made it to what I was trying to do, I realized it's just bullshit. It's all just superficial bullshit. The only thing so how do we do that? So what's the physical curation? Like it's playing an instrument, it's reading, it's learning, it's developing a love for learning, it's physical mastery.

Starting point is 00:41:12 So like my kids are doing gymnastics, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu. My daughter does theater and dance and my son does hockey. And like, so these are things that they've chosen, but I think it's also some of my influence to curate their, the brain development. Cause I don't give a shit if it becomes a professional hockey player, but I see the opportunity in developing a complex skill

Starting point is 00:41:31 that they can later stack on and that they're both physical specimens at their young age. And I'm like, this is, I wish somebody had been so conscious of this to curate this for me. Yeah. That's such a big one. I think about that. And same, same, you know, it's funny because I remember having Bear hang on those rings when we were living in my mom's garage and we posted a video and he was holding it for like 30 seconds and my hands are right there and he's just smiling the whole time, you know?

Starting point is 00:41:58 And I'm like, he's not even fucking two yet, you know? It's intuitive. Yeah, he's got it. And like, you know, if you think about, you know it's intuitive yeah he's got it and like you know if you think about you know whatever link was jumped genetically it's we still have dna to hang on things yep you know so that's there and uh but it was funny because i got a lot of people a lot of shit like some kind of marinovich project was going on and i'm like i don't he could be a concert penis he could do whatever the fuck he wants to do. He can love whoever he wants to love.

Starting point is 00:42:25 He can bring a boyfriend home. Like none of that shit matters to me. But I do want him to have the skills, to have the, whatever he's into, to get the backing behind it, the support behind it and the ways that I know how to support outside of myself. Cause he doesn't, I don't know about your kids, but my little guy does not like learning from us much. So my daughter will listen to anything I say. My son goes, if I say, hey son, you should go left,

Starting point is 00:42:49 he's going right. Yeah. We have yet to see with our daughter, but certainly with him, it's like, okay, we need other coaches on hand, but we got those, you know, and that's, it's such an important piece. But the brain training piece was like, man, yeah, I didn't think of it that way. I remember one of the neuroscientist buddies that I had on the podcast was talking about this. I can't remember which might've been Huberman, but he was talking about, I don't think it was Huberman. This study that came out that showed, you know, if you played a brain training game, like Lumosity, it made you really good at brain training games. It wasn't a global effect. But music and learning a second language

Starting point is 00:43:29 had a global effect. It actually increased intelligence in all areas. So when you think about that, it's like, well, time's finite. We only have so much of the pie chart. We know our kids need extracurriculars that go beyond homework and fucking screens. What way do we encourage them to go?

Starting point is 00:43:48 Well, music for sure should be in there, right? A second language for sure should be in there. And then these other things that train and integrate the body, cross-body movement, things like that. That's fantastic. Yeah. And again, that's it. Check all the boxes, right?

Starting point is 00:44:02 And they'll find what they love if they have the skills to do it. Because like what's more discouraging than you try to do something and you suck at it. So if you can develop complex movement capability as a kid, you can do anything, right? So if they decide when they're 12 and 13 that they wanted to pick off some new sport, they already have the physical competency

Starting point is 00:44:19 to be able to quickly adapt. Whereas, you know, I spent a lot of years training athletes and you can see their athletic history in the way that they move. I'm like, I can tell exactly what you did based on what you're competent at and what you're not. Like some people obviously have

Starting point is 00:44:31 more adaptive nervous systems. Maybe they had genetic advantages or dietary advantage or athletic advantages, but you can see it. So I figured the more diverse skills I can expose them to as a child, it just equips them that much better

Starting point is 00:44:43 for what they're going to do as an adult. And that's it. That's all it is. It's opening more doors And that's it. That's all it is. It's opening more doors. That's all. That's what I see. It's like, I don't give a shit if they play the piano or the violin or whatever, man.

Starting point is 00:44:51 It's just going to get your brain thinking in that way where you're like, hey, one, I have this complex capability, but now I also know that I can accomplish something. I know that I can start a goal and finish a goal. And that's pretty cool. And that's it. It's building confidence. And with respect to how we make time for it. So what I've done, and again, everyone chooses their own

Starting point is 00:45:10 path, but homeschooling. So we can accomplish in two and a half to three hours what they were doing in seven. And now you just opened up four hours for them to play outside and jump on the trampoline and play with the friends. And so, I mean, that's just been a great for us because I mean, when you're in school from, you know, they were in school from 7.40 until 2 o'clock every day. You're done school and you got like one hockey practice and the day's done and there's not a lot of time. So now they get to sleep in, they get to go for a morning walk, do some breath work, and then they're going to do some homeschooling. We actually found a really cool homeschool collective this year, which is amazing. It's still only three hours and then we have all the rest of the day to to connect

Starting point is 00:45:45 to play and to to really do whatever the hell else you want i think that's one of the opportunities that covet has provided is like maybe more people are experiment or experimenting with or exploring the feasibility of homeschooling it's so much i mean it's certainly challenging but it's so much more realistic now that parents are mostly working at home anyways. Yeah. So try, right. If you, if you have the desire and the patience, ultimately, like I, I have a belief that I'm a good teacher because I just, just put myself in their shoes. Like, I'm not trying to impart my beliefs on them. It's like, well, I'm going to meet you where you are. And we're going to walk on the slowest incremental path to where you want to go. I tell my kids all the time, I'm like, I'm not a parent. I'm a facilitator. You tell me what you want to do. And I facilitate it. You say you want to do

Starting point is 00:46:27 something. I open the door. You say you want to learn something. I find the book or I find like, that's it. I'm a facilitator. I'm not a parent. Parent, what does parent mean? Like I'm going to impart a bunch of bullshit on you and give you a bunch of rules. Forget it. Let's just create some type of facilitation for the things your soul wants to do so that I put as little of my bullshit on you as I possibly can. Yeah, that's huge. I think of the exposure of some of the cracks that we have in our system from finance to education to food, healthcare, all of these things that of course I've talked about on the podcast and had many guests on, but education is a big one. And with like-minded individuals in a community,

Starting point is 00:47:05 we then have that ability to do homeschool co-ops, you know, Bear's a part of that. He's in school without a mask. It's not even school technically. He's in his home thing, you know, his co-op without a mask, but he gets to play with other kids. He has teachers that came from Waldorf that are teaching that education style where they're learning music, they're learning, you know, spatial awareness through song and actually being out in nature. And they're not having to do that on a screen, you know, and I really feel for parents that, that are in that position right now, but there

Starting point is 00:47:35 is a doorway through that, you know, don't think, especially if your kids are young, like if you're finished in high school, like whatever, grind it out. But if you, if you have, you know, all of their school left, like really put grind it out. But if you, if you have, you know, all of their school left, like really put some thought into that and, and see who's in your area that is thinking along the same way, you know, because that's where we can start to bridge the gap. And a lot of these things come back to not just, you know, decentralizing central power, but re-centralizing local power, you know, and that's got to come in through all systems. You know, it can't just be like this one education system being broadcast around nationally that every kid tunes into. That's not going to work. Yeah. I think you have,

Starting point is 00:48:15 I mean, both of us maybe, but certainly this ability to be conscious of what you do is something we take for granted. And I don't know that most humans are there, right? Most humans just aren't able to be conscious of decision-making. They're not able to be conscious of changing and challenging paradigms. And so, you know, I'm sure people listening to your podcast are going to be of the realm of more highly conscious. But most parents just, like, I just don't want to deal with my kid. Like, let him go to school, go in the conventional system. And for me, I'm so anti-box.

Starting point is 00:48:44 Like, if it fits in a box i don't want it that's my mentality with the kids and i just want to get them the hell as far away from conventional schooling as possible because it's just it did nothing for me like i i literally don't think i learned a fucking thing went all the way through university i'm like this is bullshit i got enough i did well enough to pass and never more and i hated it didn't I didn't want to be there. And it wasn't until I was 30 years old that I started becoming a lifelong student. I just didn't give a shit. I was like, I don't want this.

Starting point is 00:49:12 And now in the last five years, my education's been exponential because I actually found what I love. And so that to me is what parents should strive for. It's like, man, forget about all the conventional bullshit of what you're told you have to become to fit into culture. Like you have to do your basic things, but let them find what their soul is pulled to do

Starting point is 00:49:32 and they'll never work a day in their life. And that's, forget the box, right? Like the factory worker nine to five box, it's just, it's an outdated paradigm. Yeah, it really is. And it's, there is like a grief of that loss, you know, that happened in March for a lot of people and extended, you know, it's quarantine extended.

Starting point is 00:49:54 But at a certain point, it's what do we want to reimagine? You know, Micah talked with me about that. Dr. Micah Hamilton, Dan Stickler's beautiful and amazing wife. She was like, once you reach a certain point, and same with implant medicines, you reach a certain point of healing where you can let the past die now.

Starting point is 00:50:10 What do we want to create today going forward? You know, and that just gives us, there's so much more empowerment in that if we surrender to what has happened while looking at it, not just stuffing it under the rug, but like, yeah, okay, this is the way it went down for me personally. This is the way it went, yeah, okay, this is the way it went down for me personally. This is the way it went down as a culture.

Starting point is 00:50:26 This is the way it went down as a society. And here we are right now. What do we want to do with it? How do you frame that? So we all have our story around what happens. And to me, I always acknowledge that it's just a story. You'll get this as having kids. The words you say are not always the words that they hear.

Starting point is 00:50:44 And so I have two children, very close in age, and I say the same thing and they both hear something very different. So knowing that, looking back on my childhood, I know I was an asshole of a kid and I know I would have been very hard to parent. So for me to say my parents were bad parents, I'm gonna say that, right?

Starting point is 00:50:59 I was probably just didn't wanna hear what they had to say. Maybe I was resistant to what they had to say. So my impression was, well, you're bad parents because you're not letting me do what I want to do. So it's just a story. It's all bullshit. And the meaning of the event is your perception of it. So I think everyone out there should challenge their story.

Starting point is 00:51:18 And for me, you'll hear people calling about forgiveness and some people will call it acceptance. So personally, I think I'd like your perspective on how you did it. Is it people will call it acceptance. So personally, I think the reason I'm bringing this up, I'd like your perspective on how you did it. Is it surrender? Is it acceptance? Is it forgiveness? Because to me, forgiveness eludes blame.

Starting point is 00:51:34 It's like somebody's responsible for this. So I shifted away. I was really taught you have to forgive everybody. I'm like, well, no, because that means they're wrong. But I don't want to forgive them because they weren't wrong. This is just my perception. They may have been wrong. There's certainly things in life where people did bad things, but in some way that made me stronger. And so now it's just acceptance of what is, who I am and looking at the strength and looking at

Starting point is 00:51:56 the darkness and looking at all the range of humanness, right? All the range of human emotions and accepting what is and loving what is. And that's what the journey I'm on now. It's like finding all those things that I would have buried under the armor of being a 322 pound bodybuilder to now loving all the parts, man. And it's a beautiful transition, but I'm curious how you frame that in your brain as far as letting go. Yeah, that's a really important piece to look at. Forgiveness does inherently require blame and resentment, right? Paul Selig talked about this, you know, that all is over nothing is, and talking about God or consciousness, whatever you want to name that,

Starting point is 00:52:36 all is over nothing is. And so one of the biggest splits we have is we can call God the thing we love. We can see God in our dog. We see God in our children, but we don't see it in the person we don't like. We don't see it in the boss that talks down to us. We don't see it in our wife when she's yelling at us, whatever that case is, but it still is all is over nothing is. And so one of the things he talks about with forgiveness is anything you damn, damns you right back, right? Through the mirroring of consciousness,

Starting point is 00:53:04 that's how it works. And if I hold someone in the cave, I inherently have to be in the cave with them to be holding them there. So forgiveness isn't so much about what I say to someone else. It's about me taking myself with that person out of the cave.

Starting point is 00:53:19 Forgiveness is for me to take the weight off of my chest. But that's just the first piece. It then must move to acceptance, right? Because there is no blame in acceptance. It's just, this is what happened. Am I cool with it? Can I be okay with that? I'm grateful for it.

Starting point is 00:53:31 Yeah. And then compassion, right? So like thinking along the lines of our dads, like what a mind fuck for me to have a son that has just as much energy as I did, just as much energy as my dad did and my grandfather and doesn't listen to me at all.

Starting point is 00:53:50 Likely how I did. Yeah, exactly, right? And so I was like, and I finally had a call with my mom maybe like three months ago. And I was like, I remember getting disciplined a lot. Did I not?

Starting point is 00:54:00 There had to be a reason for that. Now as a parent, I'm like, you only get disciplined. It's not like my dad would just kick me in the ass for no reason. It always came with warning. It always came with something.

Starting point is 00:54:09 So what was I just not listening? And she's like, Oh honey, you never listened. Right. And I was like, never. And she's like,

Starting point is 00:54:14 no, we would, we would talk to you for 20 minutes about how to ride your bike. And the second we let you go, you would peel into the street to oncoming traffic. Like you did this on more than one occasion. And I was like, wow. And I had to than one occasion. And I was like, wow. And I had to sit with that.

Starting point is 00:54:27 And I was like, okay, okay. All right. So it's almost like a redo where now I'm my dad and I'm my son, you know, and my son gets a second, little Kyle gets a second shot as bear. And Rick gets a second shot at, you know, at dadding. And that's how it goes. And then with that though, there's the total compassion of,

Starting point is 00:54:49 Oh fuck. I know what he was fearing. I know why he works so much. Yes. I know what it's like to pay the bills or to not to say like, sorry, we can't afford that right now. I know all those things that he went through because I've had the

Starting point is 00:55:01 opportunity to live them. Whereas I didn't before. And I think that's where the compassion piece comes in because it's unignorable when it becomes a visceral experience that you live. And then with all that, the ability to choose, right? Like, okay, boundaries are necessary. They're fucking totally necessary with kids.

Starting point is 00:55:20 Like Jordan Peterson talked about that beautifully in 12 Steps or 12 rules for a better life. It was like, yeah, if you don't, and I saw this too, there was, you know, growing up in the Silicon Valley, Indian kids, East Indian kids, and some Asian American kids, and this is speaking in generalities, but a lot of them had it very hard academically from their parents. Like very strict, like ass whoopings for an A minus. And I know, cause I had many friends. Our kid, we had 70% Asian American in our school, which includes India, obviously it's a part of Asia.

Starting point is 00:55:57 And many of my friends were of that descent and Indian. And they had it way different than I did, right? So now I'm in Sprouts in Sunnyvale as an adult with my son. And there's a lot of kids from those, those, you know, ethnicities who are running through the store, doing whatever the fuck they want,

Starting point is 00:56:18 sticking their hands into candy bins, munching it down. Their parents are like, Oh, come on. So-and-so don't do that. And it's like, there's zero discipline. Right. Right. So they went the complete opposite direction. And parents are like, oh, come on, so-and-so, don't do that. And it's like, there's zero discipline.

Starting point is 00:56:26 So they went the complete opposite direction. And again, I'm not saying this happens everywhere and that this is a thousand percent what's across the board, but I saw it enough to where I was like, oh yeah,

Starting point is 00:56:37 they had it so rough that they just fucking took the- I don't want to be like my parents. They took the training wheels off, right? They just said, okay, all is cool. And it reminds me of King We Warrior, Magician, Lover. Have you gotten into that book?

Starting point is 00:56:48 No, I just bought it. It's fucking one of my favorite books ever written. Yeah, I get it this week. And so they talk about how these four quadrants of the King archetype pairs with the Magician archetype. The Warrior archetype pairs with the Lover archetype. And all of these archetypes have a light side and a shadow side. And the shadow sides have a passive and an active form of the shadow.

Starting point is 00:57:10 Well, on the lover side, if you're in shadow lover, the active form is one who wishes to make love with the whole of the universe. It is boundaryless form. It's the Don Juan archetype who always goes out searching for the next universal feminine to intertwine with, but seeking that love and never really finding it. It's never good enough. It's never exquisite enough. So they continue on, never seeing the beauty that's right before them. That's one example of that. It's the addict archetype. It's the one who says,

Starting point is 00:57:45 this will be the time where I get the peak experience with ayahuasca and then finishes and says, all right, cool. I'm going to come back in a month. And it's at that level where there is no boundary. On the flip side of that, what balances that is the warrior. It's not the light side of the lover. It's the warrior that balances that because the warrior understands boundary and it's in service of a higher ideal, right? The warrior serves the king, which is the kingdom. Everyone's a king or a queen of their own inner kingdom, queendom. And then we have a family kingdom, queendom.

Starting point is 00:58:15 We have a community kingdom, queendom. We have a national one, right? That just expands, self expands infinitely outward. But at bare minimum, we have our own self unit and we have our family unit that we are the king or queen of. And that's the higher ideal we serve based on our knowledge of what that means. Like, what do I want for my kids? If I want the most for them, that means I have to expose them to, I have to let them see enough of the outside world, right? I can't create a safety bubble

Starting point is 00:58:46 like they've done at some colleges and shit like that. And then they get in the real world and they're like, oh shit, people still get punched in the face for talking that way. Or I can still get fired from a job for not, you know what I'm saying? Like you're just not protected there. So like, let's not fully protect,

Starting point is 00:59:03 let's not helicopter parent. So again, these balances, there's a million ways to take that fully protect, let's not helicopter parent. So again, these balances, there's a million ways to take that, a whole podcast in and of itself, but boundaries are super necessary and you can see what they don't have. And in understanding the boundaries, we come to find out a way that works for us. You know, we come to find out a way of ever learning. Our kids are always our teachers, but a way in which we can parent better than our parents did and still have discipline, not too much, not too little,

Starting point is 00:59:34 based on our own inner kingdom, whatever that higher ideal is as we see it. So how old's Bear? He's five and a half. He'll be six in May. So he's getting to the point now where I started talking to my son and if I made a mistake,

Starting point is 00:59:46 whether it be in my life or in my communication with him, I would just tell him. And having the confidence to do that has been a gift. And I don't think my dad would have had that. Like the conscious awareness or the confidence to say,

Starting point is 00:59:58 you know what, son, I disciplined you on this and I made a mistake and I'm really sorry. And I thought you did this or I thought you did that or I just misunderstood. And I think I overreacted and I apologize. And so him and I have had, you know, maybe in his, he's nine and maybe in his life, uh, four conversations like that where I was like, man, I apologize. I screwed up. And like,

Starting point is 01:00:19 maybe I was overreacted on this one. And I think the ability to do that again, not that it makes it right, but it makes him understand that we all make mistakes. And I think it hopefully in the future will allow him to feel confident enough to come to me and say, dad, you know, I made a mistake. I screwed up because I'm willing to be vulnerable with him and going, man, I'm sorry. Like, you know, I apologize that I said this, or I apologize that I did that. And no one ever did that for me. Nobody ever thought it would be a good idea to go and apologize for their screw ups. And I think if anything, for me anyways, it would have helped. It would have been like, oh, like adults make mistakes.

Starting point is 01:00:51 Adults aren't perfect. They don't know everything. Like I know my son puts me on a pedestal. So my dad's the, you know, he knows everything. He's good at everything. And I'm like, no, no, buddy, that's not true. Like, so that just construct in his brain of thinking dad's created everything. You know, I think every son thinks like that.

Starting point is 01:01:06 But breaking that down for him to make it realize like, no, man, like I'm okay at some things, but I worked really hard on the things that I worked at and that I'm good at. emotionally resilient and comfortable and acknowledging their screw ups and progressing toward what they ideally wanna do or what they're capable of. Yeah, that's such a massive piece. It's the first agreement and the four agreements, be impeccable with your word, right? Part of being impeccable is stating when you've made a mistake.

Starting point is 01:01:40 It's that opening and that gives them permission to do the same, right? You're giving them a gift of being able to say like, Hey, I, I, I've thought about this and I made a mistake and it's, I'm sorry for that. You know, I didn't, I didn't get much of that either. Um, but I've, I've done that with bear. One of the things that I've told them too, which is really funny, I don't think it's landed yet was how, you know, I had bear when i was 33 and it was the first real impetus of you know the holy shit what did i sign up for but um like a real real like gratitude for my parents and understanding oh they were kids when they how old were they my dad was the same age okay and my mom was 20

Starting point is 01:02:21 wow or he was yeah he was 31 and my mom was 20. And I was like, they were fucking kids when they had me. They were kids. And then I was like, I'm a kid having kids, you know? And there's no three generations here. You know,

Starting point is 01:02:34 this is like the grandparents are around. It's not, you know, there's no aunties and uncles around. Like it's just, it's all on us. Our kids raising kids. And I've told them that like,

Starting point is 01:02:42 you will come to understand that no matter how long you wait and hopefully you wait a long time, that you will have some prerequisites met and you'll have far more that have not been met. You're going to have a lot of gaping holes where you don't understand

Starting point is 01:02:55 until you're there. Yeah. You know, that was a big one for me. I was 30 when I had my son, my son and my 31, I had my daughter, but my kid,

Starting point is 01:03:03 my parents were 22 and they had me. Couldn't imagine what the hell it would be like to have two children at 22. I'm like, so looking back at it, how do you blame them? Like my mother was an alcoholic. She spent her nights at the bar.

Starting point is 01:03:13 I'm like, same thing I did in my 20s, right? Like I get it. She's like, oh, grandparents take care of them. We're good. So, but as a kid, you're like, oh, my parents didn't love me. They abandoned me. They weren't there for me,

Starting point is 01:03:23 but they're out there working their ass off and they're living their life. So man, I wish somebody had given me context and perspective when I was a kid you're like oh my parents didn't love me they abandoned me they weren't there for me but they're out there working their ass off and they're living their life so man i wish somebody had given me context and perspective when i was a kid i don't know that i would have been able to have the awareness to take it in but it would have been nice to at least have a conversation with somebody about hey like the reason i'm doing this is because i'm out there trying to make money so we can have what we you need or we you know we can play the sports and you can be whatever and the reason i'm out there drinking is because to be honest, I'm kind of lonely and I want to have some fun.

Starting point is 01:03:48 Yeah, life's fucking hard. Yeah. It's a way for me to... So any parent out there, I think maybe that's the lesson, right? It's like, hey, invest in those five to 10 minute conversations. And for me, it's often just like when my kids have to wake up at certain times in the morning, like instead of going in there and turning the lights on and waking them up, I'll lay with them. I'll just like lay down and, you know, make sure they know that they're loved and make sure they know that I'm waking them up in the softest way possible.

Starting point is 01:04:12 And spending those five or 10 minutes in bed before they have to get up and start their day, lets them know they're loved and accepted and that kind of stuff. As much as it's time, which we all, you know, value, that's what sets the relationship, right? The dynamic that lets them know they're accepted and loved and allows you to open the door to those more difficult conversations of rather than being adversarial when those conversations come up or being, you know, someone coming at it with some type of hurt emotion, you're just bringing just unconditional love. Yeah. Yeah. That's a big one. There's a kid's book. I think it's called The Last 20 Minutes or The Final 20 Minutes. It's about the final 20 minutes of the day. And for any parents that have kids that are just nonstop energy, don't listen, want to do their thing and go ball stop. I'll take Bear to jujitsu and we get that, it's kind of like, you've had Joe Dispenza on your podcast.

Starting point is 01:05:08 The most important times you can meditate are right in the morning and right before bed because those are the twilight hours when you're already dipping into alpha and theta and it's just easier to access than middle of the day or right after you've had a giant thing of coffee. And same is true for our kids.

Starting point is 01:05:24 So when we lay down, we'll listen to Harry Potter or something on Audible and then we'll turn it off and just talk. And like, he's so receptive there. And some of these conversations where I've apologized have been there and it just lands in a way that it won't land when we're in the car or doing something else.

Starting point is 01:05:41 Yeah, just like it wouldn't land for us, right? If you're doing something else that you're busy with, you have a conversation't land for us, right? If you're in the middle of doing something else that you're busy with, you have a conversation with somebody like, I don't remember what the hell we talked about or it didn't land with me, right? Same thing. You have to prepare the brain. You have to prepare the mind

Starting point is 01:05:52 and including when they're doing something bad and they're stressed out that they screwed something up. They're not going to take the lesson at that point, right? That's why I think those conversations, you know, whenever you curate the time is an important thing to be aware of. All right, I want to backtrack. We got 10 minutes here. I got a couple of questions that I want to give to you that have been on my mind. How has your training changed

Starting point is 01:06:13 since moving away from competing at that level? Because it's something I've looked at personally, and I've got all these old freaking weird injuries and my body's twisted up. And it's like, I just, I still love training, but it's like, I can't get away with the way I used to know how to train. Yeah. So retired in 2016 and for 18 months after retiring, I basically trained. So it wasn't, it was actually 2017 when I stopped training,

Starting point is 01:06:36 but I basically trained once a week and I did a bunch of yoga. I did yoga every day. I started doing some microdosing of LSD and that was just where this journey began. The spiritual journey really started to go deep. So very, very little for a while. I lost about 70 pounds during that time.

Starting point is 01:06:51 I went from about 310, 320 to about 250 or less. And then I had a pro bodybuilder move into town. He hired me to train him for the Olympia. And so I went back to training five days a week and put on 30 pounds in three weeks quick. And so that brought me to the end of 2018. And now since that, I'm very much removed from any likelihood of going anywhere near the fitness space. I'm still in the fitness space, but it's not going to be competitive anymore. There's no more intention in my mind to, no more attachment to looking a particular way. I don't have to look

Starting point is 01:07:28 like I'm a bodybuilder all the time walking around. I want to be healthy. I want to be fit. But speaking about how I'm training, it's this dynamic relationship between, you know, we'll call strength training. For me, it's just about, I want to maintain certain standards of strength and, you know, certain lifts. And then's it's so i'll do that one day and it can be quote-unquote strength slash hypertrophy training and another day it'll be um yoga and aerobic training it's this dynamic balance between these two based on how i feel and how it looks if i feel like i'm getting tired i'll shift or sorry getting tight i'll shift more to more yoga and aerobic training and that body composition is built in there too then if i'm if i'm not maintaining

Starting point is 01:08:02 my strength standards i'll just go back to this strength training. And it's just, you know, how many times a week am I doing it? It changes based on how close am I? How do I feel? How does my body feel? How do I look? What's my schedule?

Starting point is 01:08:14 But it's definitely nothing like it would have been in the past. Like I was obsessed when I was like, beyond obsessed at times when I was training in my career. So which is why I'm an on or off kind of guy. Like when I'm in, I'm in. And like, there's nothing else in the world.

Starting point is 01:08:27 And now it's just like, okay, I don't want to go back there. Like at times I was almost trying to forget that was part of me. And I've moved on from that. Like I accept and I love that part of me. That's funny. When I retired, I put all my pictures away, man.

Starting point is 01:08:40 I put them in the club, put them in the drawer. It's like, take them off. Like even my pictures with my kids, like take them off, put them away. But I tried to hide that part of my life for a while I was like I don't want to I don't want to be this anymore

Starting point is 01:08:48 I want to be able to remove myself and I guess that was part of it part of the journey but now I'm bringing it all back out and acknowledging and loving that part of my life yeah so training now is you know let's say minimum

Starting point is 01:08:59 three times a week ideally four not high amounts of volume because I do put on muscle so fast and now I didn't always but now that your body's been there it wants to go back so it's times a week, ideally four, not high amounts of volume because I do put on muscle so fast. And now, I didn't always, but now that your body's been there and wants to go back. So it's trying to get myself down slowly in a healthy way. So I'm still about 250 right now. I'd probably like to get down to 230 and just kind of hang out there and be super lean all the time. And I'll do that this year. So it's my 40th birthday this year, man. Next month, actually.

Starting point is 01:09:24 Hell yeah. Congrats, brother. Thanks, man. So getting the best shape of my life at 40 and stay there, that this year. So it's my 40th birthday this year, man. Next month, actually. Hell yeah. Congrats, brother. Thanks, man. So getting the best shape of my life at 40 and stay there, hanging around 230 and get the next 10 years all planned out. And I'm excited to embark on a new journey in my life,

Starting point is 01:09:38 a new phase of my life. I like that, that you're teeter-totter, if you will, of going back and forth from the strength training to the yoga aerobics based on feel, look, and goals is something that reminded me. I was on psilocybin at one point looking at bamboo and it reminded me of Bruce Lee, Be Like Water.

Starting point is 01:09:57 But this medicine of the bamboo, winds were picking up and it was folding over at 90 degrees and just springing back up. And I was like, damn, degrees and just springing back up. And I was like, damn, it is so strong and so flexible. I started with the willow versus the oak, but the bamboo has it all.

Starting point is 01:10:15 It's incredibly strong, incredibly flexible, incredibly durable. And I've really been wanting to embody that more. That's cool. This year has been a very departure from yoga for me because all the the yoga studios were closed i had this amazing yoga guru who was teaching me and he was he's an older guy he's in his late 60s but he was just unbelievably uh transformative for me and unfortunately he's really sick so uh i haven't i guess there's something energetically there for me like because i couldn't go to him i just almost felt like i didn't want to go to someone else

Starting point is 01:10:42 so my yoga this year has been a little bit like i don't know maybe done it 10 times all year but so in 2020 so this year i'm going to get back into it and get back to my four or five days a week it's just i mean the greatest i love the connection of mind body and that and that and and getting into this flexibility that i think we're all designed to embody whether or not people try to acknowledge it or not or admit it or not i think humans are meant to be mobile agile you know strong fast i think ancestrally like what would we have been right yeah yeah yeah and that it's it's to unlock that tuning fork that's why i love your setup here man he's like it's getting away from conventional chairs i don't even see a chair anywhere it's like we're sitting on the floor your bedroom on the floor like that's that's a good idea

Starting point is 01:11:22 i love that idea and um you know there's a there's a lady i forget her name she's on the floor. Like that's, that's a good idea. I love that idea. And, um, you know, there's a, there's a lady, I forget her name. She was on the podcast who curates her home away from convenience, right? Typical homes are built for convenience. She goes, well, if something is conveniently placed here,

Starting point is 01:11:35 where can I put it? So it's not convenient. So I have to build additional work into my home. I was like, it's brilliant. Including, you know, the,

Starting point is 01:11:41 the dinner table on the floor and the, you know, the couch is on the floor and the couches on the floor or like that isn't a floor. It's like a mattress, right? That's brilliant. Yeah, we got that downstairs. I'll show you afterwards.

Starting point is 01:11:52 Same deal. It's like a Japanese coffee table with little yogurt cushions to sit on. Mark Bell did not appreciate that one bit, but it's a little stiff. Yeah, most of the American culture, we get used to our comforts,

Starting point is 01:12:07 right? And I'm the opposite. Like, I think I alluded to this fact, like when I see something I'm bad at, I go for it,

Starting point is 01:12:13 full strength. And that's, I think what most of us should, I mean, not to put my beliefs on somebody else, but, and comfort is not

Starting point is 01:12:20 your friend. It's just not. Yeah. Yeah. One way or another, life will serve you the challenge. So you can either say yes to it up front or on the back end.

Starting point is 01:12:28 Choose it or it'll choose you. Yeah. Well, one last question I want to leave us with is, it's 2021. We went through, you know, in all regards, like one of the most challenging,

Starting point is 01:12:40 mind-bending years ever, no matter where you are on the side of the spectrum politically or where you are on the side of spectrum medically or any of these things. Lots of fear, lots of changes. What are you tracking right now in terms of, you know, the people you're learning from, the things that you want to do and where you're headed in life? I have this amazing passion for business and marketing. And so I've been, I've been diving a lot into that, which is, you know, it almost feels like I love marketing and business more than I love fitness. And so a lot of my learning over the last couple of years has really been diving into that.

Starting point is 01:13:14 And I just see it as a game. I see it as like a big puzzle piece you got to put together. Can you think like a chess master and think four or five steps ahead of how this is all going to unravel? So I've been spending a lot of time with that and trying to find the best, um, best teachers, the best coaches in the world and work with them. And I don't know that it's like, I have no, um, strong desire to be incredibly wealthy. Like I'd like to make a lot of money, but only so I can give it back and only so I could do cooler things to help more people. So like, you know, my, my belief is I'll do very well in business, but what will

Starting point is 01:13:45 I do with that money? Am I going to have a nicer car or a nicer club? No, I'm not going to have any of that shit. Like, I don't give a shit about that. I'll probably ride a bike and wear sandals, right? Like, but what do I want to do with it? Well, I want to build it to make an impact. And again, maybe that's an ego drive in itself. But I just love the idea. I mean, I have, you know, as far as what you would judge me as seeing me, this big muscle-bound meathead, my empathy is probably my greatest skill. My ability to feel is, that's not always a blessing. Sometimes it's a curse. So I want to put myself into a position now financially where when something is significant enough to me, it means something to me, I want to build help. So that's what my next 10 years looks like,

Starting point is 01:14:33 or at least the next five years, is like building something of significance. And it's certainly now it's consulting with the companies, it's helping other companies build their businesses. And eventually it's, I mean, at the same time, concurrently building mine as well. Beautiful, brother. Well, you got a new title of the podcast,

Starting point is 01:14:50 at least three years ago, a new title of the podcast. Tell people where they can find you. Yeah, Muscle Intelligence Podcast. It was originally Muscle Experts. It was so muscle centric. Now, as you know, it's much more going down this internal journey, you know, and I play all the time with the idea of changing the name because the name is

Starting point is 01:15:06 kind of restrictive, but I just interview amazing guests. And I guess the context of the podcast is living your greatest life in a body you love. And I think that does a pretty good job of summing up what it is. It's like, you know, we're going to help you overcome all of the stuff, not just the physical. The physical is a big part of it, but it's like, well, there's the mental and there's the spiritual and there's the relational. And then I don't get into finances all that much. Although I do talk about business and marketing quite a bit and parenting is

Starting point is 01:15:29 on there. And so it's just, what does your greatest life look like for you? And giving all the tools you need for that and supporting it along the lines of ultimately, you know, what does it look like to, to help with the mental challenges we all have?

Starting point is 01:15:42 And I have some great experts as you do. So yeah, it's Muscle Intelligence Podcast, muscleintelligence.com would be a good place to find it. Beautiful, brother. It's been awesome having you. Absolutely great to connect again, man. Yeah, thank you so much, brother. Thank you.

Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #187 Ben Pakulski

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