Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #21 A lifelong pursuit of Martial Arts with Rafael Lovato Jr

Episode Date: February 19, 2018

We sit down to discuss a life long practice of martial arts, the rise of Brazilian Jui Jitsu, transitioning to MMA, and the best practices for recovery and mental performance with Rafael Lovato Jr. Raphael on Instagram Facebook Twitter Check out his schools Lovato BJJ Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on Twitter and on Instagram Get 10% off at Onnit by going to Onnit.com/Podcast         Onnit Twitter        Onnit Instagram  

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Yo, thanks for tuning in to the Onnit Podcast with Kyle Kingsbury. This week's guest is Rafael Lovato Jr. You know, I'd followed this guy a lot through his career in mixed martial arts and not so much before in jujitsu. He's an incredible martial artist, you know, and it's funny because as I pick his brain and kind of see his transformation and how he's gotten to this place in life, I'm pretty jealous of him. He's lived an incredible life. His father was into Jeet Kune Do and Bruce Lee and really exposed him to mixed martial arts before there was a sport of mixed martial arts.

He's been able to train with some of the best jiu-jitsu players in the history of the sport. Was right there at the beginning as the Gracies started coming into America and exposing the world to this new form of jiu-jitsu. And I think you guys are really going to dig this podcast. Thanks for tuning in. Good to go. Rafael Lovato Jr. in the house on the On It podcast. It is an absolute pleasure to have you here, brother. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, man. We had a chance. Me, Curtis Hembroff, and our boy Andrew Craig told me you were coming in town. And I was like, man, we got to do a private. We got to get some mat time with you.

That was exceptional, man. Thank you. Thank you. I've followed you in your career. I heard about you in jiu-jitsu, but I never, I'm a fan of jiu-jitsu. Never watched a whole lot. Competed myself, that kind of stuff. But mostly was just invested in the time. i would only time i'd watch videos was really to scope out an opponent in preparation that kind of thing watching mma that's been fucking incredible to see your rise in mma and to see how well you've done especially when you look at the history of really good jujitsu stars that might try to make the transition you know what got you into one thing i try to do

is is backtrack a little bit here so you know did was jujitsu your first martial art that you started with uh not exactly um my father is a lifetime martial artist he uh grew up doing traditional martial arts then he got into boxing and um and then he was inspired by bruce lee um like you know most martial artists were at some point in time um and that led him into the jeet kune do route um and he was uh you know pursuing um bruce lee's uh art and that brought him into contact with Richard Bastille, Danny Nosano, some of the most incredible martial artists of our time. And, you know, Jeet Kune Do was sort of like

the very first mixed martial arts, you know, the mindset was to be able to defend yourself at all ranges of combat and, you know, take what's best from each discipline, blend it together, and create your own, you know own self-defense combat system. And so whenever I was a child, I was born in Ohio. My dad was the assistant instructor at the Jeet Kune Do Academy in Cincinnati, Ohio. And so I would watch him train and teach.

And so my first contact with martial arts was mainly through the JKD system. My dad had me moving as soon as I was able to move. He had me doing martial arts. And so I grew up in martial arts. Later on down the line, he discovered Brazilian Jiu- Jitsu through the JKD instructor conferences. Um, they would bring in different instructors for, uh, different disciplines and

they brought in the Gracies to cover their grappling portion. And, um, and you know, he immediately fell in love with it. My father is, is a small guy. He's only like 5'8", 5'9", 150, 160 pounds. And so jiu-jitsu was really incredible for him. You know, he fell in love with it right away, and he began teaching me as he was learning. And, you know, basically now we're in Oklahoma, all right? So we moved to Oklahoma when I was eight years old. He opened an academy there as well.

It was a JKD school. And once he started learning jiu-jitsu, it began to transition into a jiu-jitsu academy. And he would come home, teach me, show all the students what he was learning. And he was going back and forth from Oklahoma to California for quite some time. And then Carlos Machado moved to Dallas, Texas. And that was amazing for us because being right in the middle of the country, the closest jiu-jitsu was either California, Florida, or New York. Everything was far.

And Carlos Machado was the first black belt in that level to come to our area of the country. And so then my father was going down to Dallas, um, every Thursday he would go to Dallas, do a private lesson in the morning, train in the morning class, drive back home and then teach at night. Um, and he did that for like three or four years. Um, he was, uh, you know, Carlos's first student because he knew Carlos from California before Carlos moved to Texas. Carlos called him up, said, hey, I'm moving to Dallas. My dad, you know, we got so happy. Started making that back and forth trip.

He was Carlos's first blue belt. And, you know, then I started traveling a lot. Now I'm getting to be a teenager, 14, 15 years old. And it became easier for my dad to sort of ship me out and, you know, go here, go there, learn, train, or I would compete as well, come home and I would show him everything that I learned. And he could stay home and focus on the business. Plus he didn't like to fly. And so, you know, it was a lot easier for me to get around than what it was for him. And, you know, I made my first trip to Brazil in 1999 to compete in the world championships. How old were you then?

I had just turned 16. Fuck yeah. Yeah. I'm so jealous right now. No, I mean, it's amazing. Like, you know, I got to train with, you know, incredible martial artists such as Richard Bastion, Daniel Asano when I was a child. Then I got to, you know, go to Brazil and be a part of this amazing revolution in the martial

arts world where jujitsu exploded onto the scene and, you know, be in Brazil, compete in Brazil, train with so many of the best Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts. You know, my senseis are Salo and Shonji Huberto, two of the greatest of all time. So I've been very blessed to come across some of the best martial artists all in their own disciplines in my time, in my lifetime. But fast forward down the line, my father and I became the first father and son American Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts, and I've been able to make a lot of history for Americans in the sport of Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts and I've been able to you know make a lot of history for Americans in the sport of Brazilian jiu-jitsu and now the last few years I've been competing in mixed martial arts

it's sort of like the fulfillment of my martial arts destiny I feel like you know now I'm tapping into my whole life of training and being surrounded by martial arts and really finding myself and putting it all together into, you know, my, you know, mixed martial arts expression, I guess, so to speak, inside that cage. I'm having a lot of fun. Yeah, you're doing a fucking tremendous job. 7-0 now, right? Yes. Yeah, absolutely incredible. This makes so much more sense now to me rather than just a jiu jujitsu guy who becomes excellent at that craft, which you are. And, you know, you look at your lineage, it's fairly easy to see why you would have that kind of success, but to also understand like, this has been a part of

your family, a part of your upbringing. It's been ingrained at a young age. And then still that would be enough to see like, okay, I can kind of connect the dots here, but it makes so much more sense. You know, JKD essentially is MMA in its infancy and there's so much beauty in that, but also so much understanding like, damn, you were probably one of the first children to be raised in mixed martial arts. Everyone talks about that now. Like just wait 20 years. John Jones will look sloppy. You know, we looked 20 years ago and we see Tank Abbott and guys like that.

Nobody's going to look back on John Jones and say he wasn't great, but there will be another level in 20 years from now. Right. And that's going to come from kids like yourself that grow up in a sport that includes all things, you know, that has wrestling practice in conjunction with jujitsu, you know, wrestling to submission, things like that. And, and really to see the evolution of where it's gone and to be right on the front edge of that, that's pretty, pretty damn inspiring and pretty cool. Yeah. You know, like I said, I'm, I'm so grateful for, um, you know, my martial arts life. Um, you know, it's amazing how it's all come together. Um, you know, now for sure it was a different time, you know, I'm a little older now, um, you know, compared sure it was a different time you know i'm a little older now

um you know compared to the kids in mma these days um you know being in my 30s but uh you know i'm happy for the path that i chose you know i wanted to stay in jujitsu and really make my mark make my impact um you know bj pin was the first american to win the world championships as a black belt. And that was the only tournament he ever did as a black belt. You know, he got his black belt right before the world's. He won it. And then he pretty much retired from jujitsu and switched full on to MMA. And so for me, it was important to, you know, I won my black belt world title in 2007.

And, you know, it was important to not just have my, my, my year, so to speak, but to show that I was one of the best of my generation and, uh, and to stay in jujitsu and really make my mark. And I wanted to, I really wanted to inspire other Americans and non-Brazilians, um, that were in jujitsu, um, to, you know, cause at that time it was much different, you know know it was so heavily dominated by brazilians um it still is at the black belt level but you know there's a lot more uh americans and europeans meddling and doing well these days um but at that time that you know it wasn't like that and so i wanted to stay in the sport longer really make my mark and um you know wait i always knew I would

do MMA at some point. I didn't know how much I would do it because at the end of it, I wanted to make sure I would be happy and have fun doing it. But towards the end of my jujitsu only career, you know, I'm still doing jujitsu, but mixing with MMA. uh towards the end of when i was only doing jujitsu i was sort of starting to miss that you know extreme like motivation you know of uh you know just that fire you know because i've been in it doing the same routine the same competitions so many years going against the same guys over and over and over again um you know i needed that that that fuel to light my fire again um and so that's when i thought you know what now it that, that, that fuel to light my fire again. Um, and so that's when I thought, you know what, now it's time to get in the cage. And, um, and I just sort of took it one

step at a time, but, you know, I really felt the, you know, the, the connection of my whole martial arts journey coming together, um, you know, and tapping into what I feel like my father started inside of me with his approach to martial arts, you know, because when I started training, you know, nowadays kids start mixed martial arts and they say, I want to be like Jon Jones or I want to be like, you know, Conor McGregor or whoever else. I didn't have, we didn't have anyone to look up to, you know, my father looked up to Bruce Lee, you know, and it was just, I want to be the best martial artist I can be, you know, um, for the sake of the art itself, for self-defense, for combat, for the pure beauty of it. And that's what I grew up into. You know, there was no thought of

winning world titles or being famous or making a bunch of money. Um, you know, I didn't even, when we started learning jujitsu, we didn't even know there was a world championships, you know? And so never in my life was I learning martial arts for the pursuit of titles or, you know, any sort of fame or money, you know? Um, it was always for the, the pure love of it and the self-defense, the, the art of it, the expression of it. And, and so, you know, when I started in MMA, you know, I already had a great jujitsu career. You know, like I didn't, I wasn't doing it for anything else than, than tapping into, you know, what was inside of me. And, and, you know, ever since then, I've just been learning so much and really like exploring who i am as a martial artist and um it's it's just been so much fun and you know now

i feel like a lot of that is isn't there you know because people do start for the sport you know it's for the sport i want to be on tv i want want to be the UFC champion. I want to be this and that instead of really falling in love with what martial arts is it's in itself first and foremost. And then the competition aspect of it is a, it's a, you know, it's an honor. It's a, it's a, it's the pleasure, you know, you're not, everyone gets to do that, you know, but, um, you don't train for the fight. You train for life, and the fight is just how you express yourself. Yeah, that's a huge difference. Even in myself personally, when I got into fighting,

I was using it for some form of outlet for anger because I wanted to train just because it felt good. I missed that human element in football. I didn't have it anymore. And it really brought me peace. It was an excellent way to tap into something meaningful and, you know, fighting, even though I loved punching people in the face and wanted to exercise that aggression, it eventually taught me so much about meditation and going within and stillness and how to find peace outside of the cage but it seems like you had that out of the gate you know like uh just i didn't get into bruce lee until i was probably two years into mma and i had a jeet kune do coach

who trained under dan inosanto and it's a different world it totally is you know like and you know you get into bruce lee books and some of his teachings and dude's a different world. It totally is. You know, like, and, and, you know, you get into Bruce Lee books and some of his teachings and dude's a fucking philosopher. Yeah. Like he sees the world differently. And so to have that trickled down from your father and those teachings into you from a young age is far different than any fighter I've sat across from before. Yeah. A hundred percent. You know, like I said, I'm so thankful for that um you know um yeah martial arts is so so beautiful um everything that i am is through martial arts and uh so i i can't imagine living any other way yeah a lot i think a lot of kids too that get into martial arts to do it for self-defense or i don't want people to pick on me anymore and it's not necessarily about simply enjoying the beauty of what martial arts is, you know, and, and keeping your, your, your sword sharp, you know,

honing your skills, perfecting the art, how much, how much was needed, you know, when it came to competition in terms of you finding inner peace and stillness entering combat, was that ever an issue for you? Or was it something that came naturally because of your upbringing? You know, that's interesting because like, I, I didn't know, I mean, obviously in the beginning, um, my first few, few MMA fights, um, I definitely, you know, there's definitely a different energy when you're in camp, You know, when I'm preparing for a jiu-jitsu competition, you know, as high level as it may be, I had been doing it for so long. I was always very calm, very confident. And, you know, I can have a lot of fun, you know, being around all my buddies and everything and all that, going through the process was always fun in mma in the beginning the camp you know i would be much more nervous uh a lot more fear of the unknown on edge you know uh just sort of like

hey i just want to be by myself you know what i mean let me just relax you know i i couldn't i couldn't just you know i was more on edge, you know, just more on edge. You weren't loose. Yeah, yeah. If I had a bad training session, it would affect me a lot more, you know, things like that. But surprisingly, on the day of, I was very calm, you know, because I knew I had done everything possible. And there's nothing else to think about. I just had to believe

in my reaction. Just believe that all my life of training will, will come to fruition and I will be successful, you know? Um, on the other side of things, interesting enough with jujitsu, you know, there's a lot more variables, um, how the bracket plays out the referee, bad calls, the, the gameplay, you know, as far as guys stalling and using the, the, the points in the, the system, you know, to their advantage advantages. And, and, and also the fact that I was a very, you know, accomplished world champion, uh, I'd always have a target on my back you know there's a lot more pressure and so you know many times in jujitsu competition i would feel a little more nervous or sort of uneasy the day of than i would for an mma fight um but the camps in mma camp now camps for mma i i have fun i i you know i've kind

of gotten over that initial fear of the unknown now i've you know seven fights there's still a lot more things i haven't experienced in the cage yet but i have a good feel for what it's like in there and i'm very relaxed i had three fights last year alone um so, so I, I, I'm very relaxed inside the cage, but, um, but you know, the camp can be a little up and down, but now it's, you know, I've, I've adjusted. Um, but you know, everyone, it's funny. Everyone talks about like how much harder it is or don't get hurt, you know, be careful. And, uh, it's so crazy what you're doing, but you know what? Everything is hard. You know, jujitsu is hard too. know what i mean um jiu-jitsu you know i would have multiple matches throughout the day up down up down maybe two days of competition you fight like you know a certain

amount of matches one day then the next day you have more matches you know so um i would say that a lot of my experience in jiu-jitsu definitely helped an mma transition over um but uh you know so um i would say that a lot of my experience in jiu-jitsu definitely helped an mma transition over um but uh you know there are two totally different things and it's just a different vibe and you know you have to learn to enjoy all of it yeah 100 you get more out of that looking back on it daniel cormier talked to me about that one time he said you know if there will be there will come a time in our lives he probably thought i'd continue fighting with them our whole careers but there'll come a time when we look back on this and we remember the camps we remember the fights and you want to remember that laughing you want to remember that smiling you don't want to look back and think of how fucking nervous you were

and how shitty it was yeah the grind you know and he's big on embrace the grind and that kind of lingo but point is like and that that parallels into life you know there's there's there's times in life where you got to knuckle down on your day job and just grind and go through some shit that maybe you know is a rough spot but it's perspective it's how you look at that that shifts it because when you look back on that that could have been all that time was spent the same it's just how you looked at it in the middle of it it's how you were when you were present exactly you in fear were you fucking worried about all the variables or did you appreciate what was going on and what you had going for you yeah and that nowadays i feel you know as you get older you learn that more you know what i mean you kind of you learn

more about life who you are and and you know perspective and and trying to be more present and enjoy the moment and everything and and um and so i'm happy that i waited as long as i did to do mma because i really i already knew who i was you know as a person before i got into the cage instead of trying to find myself inside that cage you know where it could be it could go really wrong you know um i pretty much already knew who i was and i knew what i was doing it for before i ever stepped foot in that cage and and you know the the the process i i i'm definitely you know i have a extreme personality i guess you know and i'm definitely addicted to to competition that the adrenaline and everything and challenging yourself and uh man the the the

fight camp and the process um that you go through for those eight weeks before you get into the cage you know like i said it was it was scary at first but uh man now i love it so much you know because you know i have my father in my corner for all my fights i have have my Muay Thai coach, who is also one of my jiu-jitsu black belts. We've been training together for 10 years. His name is Mauricio. His system is Evolucion Thai. He's amazing, amazing. One of the greatest martial artists I've ever,

you know, had the privilege to learn from. And he's also my student. And then my, you know, my jiu-jitsu brother, I mean, Shanji Hibeto, one of the greatest of all time. We've been through it all together. We've been training together for almost 15 years. Those are the three people in my corner, and I'm surrounded by my students, my martial arts brothers,

you know what I mean? And it just, when I look around and I really put it all into perspective and I just think about my life and the training and, um, who I'm representing and who's behind me, you know, the amount of love you feel for an MMA fight, you know, it's, it's different than a jujitsu tournament, you know? Yeah, sure. Everyone's rooting for you. They're thinking about you, but when you're inside the cage, it's another level. You know, the, they're really, their hearts are with you. They don't want you to get hurt. You know, they know how hard you worked. And when you feel that and you go in there, man, I'm just so like super charged and I'm, I'm just, I'm very happy too. And, and yeah, I've definitely, you know,

when it's over and we're celebrating and I'm looking back and I'm just like, oh, man, I'm almost sad that it's over. You know, it's like it's fun to celebrate, you know, and everything. But it's like, oh, I wish it was we could go back a month ago or two weeks ago, you know, and then that makes me definitely look forward for the next one, you know. So, yeah, I definitely enjoy it a lot. Hell yeah, brother. You got a fucking amazing camp and amazing lineage. Yes. You touched on something earlier about, you know, the typical language now that gets thrown around,

and a lot of that has to do with guys like Dana White just fucking sandblasting a lot of my teammates at AKA. These guys are training too hard. That's why they keep getting hurt and this and that. You're talking about injuries there's a fine line of over training and knowing and it's hard for guys to scale back when you have a competition coming up it seems like from your background you you've got a better grasp of listening to your body than most guys how does that pan out in the fight camp if you start feeling run down your coaches know you well your dad's in your corner is it fairly easy for them to scale back for you um yes and no uh you know at the end of it like you also have to recognize you know because they don't know how you feel

only you know how you feel you know um and so i i the other hand, like I had that other mindset, especially when I was younger, um, where it was, you know, go, go as hard as you can pretty much every day. Suck it up, pussy rub dirt on it. Right. Yeah. I'd always in the back of my mind be thinking, okay, what's my opponent doing? Like he can't be working harder than me today. You know, no one can deserve this more than me, you know? So if he's working harder, he's going to deserve it more. So, and I would play with my head all the time and, and, you know, I would definitely overtrain a hundred percent. I was overtraining a lot. Um, and you know, if it wasn't physical, it was also mental. It was just like, I couldn't shut off. I couldn't let myself think it was okay to rest.

But I had a life-changing injury that really brought everything into perspective. It put the pause button on my life. At the end of 2014, I tore my pec tendon. And it's a pretty major event. You know, I had to have surgery. It was the first surgery of my life. And, you know, basically a six month recovery process, nine months until I competed again and a full year before I didn't feel anything anymore. And so that was between 2014 to the summer of 2015. And, you know, like I had been in that jujitsu, okay, season, you know, sort of, you know, Europeans, Pan Ams, Worlds, then we go to Nogi. And I was competing from January to November, December, basically

every year since I was 15, 16 years old, you know, all the way until I'm 30 years old. And basically half my life had been the same thing. And I was abusing it. You know, I was I felt like I had to do it. And my performances at the end were sort of up and down because I wasn't always inspired. Sometimes I was tired. My body was broken down. because I wasn't always inspired. Sometimes I was tired, my body was broken down and I wasn't always there. You know, I was always getting on the podium, but it

wasn't always my best, you know, and then I got that that injury and everything stopped. And and I realized that, you know, I was abusing my body and I was competing for the sake of competing instead of really loving it, you know, and and being 100 percent inspired every time. And, you know. It also gave me peace because I had to come to terms with, well, what if this is it? What if I don't come back? You know, what if I'm not the same? You know, I mean, I was hearing from people about how they never were the same after that sort of injury. And one thing that was always sort of eating me up inside was the fact that I'd only won the Worlds once in the Gi.

I'd won multiple World titles in no Gi, and I had other great performances. But at the Mundials, the traditional world championships in the gi i was an eight-time medalist one gold one silver and six bronzes and those bronzes really ate me up and i was like man i know i'm better than a one-time world champion i know i'm better than that and that's why every year i was doing the same thing because i said oh i gotta win it again i gotta win it again got to win it again. I got to win it again. I got to win it again.

It wasn't a successful year unless I won it. And so at the end of all those years, I felt disappointed in myself. And then when everything stopped and I had to look at my career, you know, being in my 30s at that point, like, okay, what am I going to do when I come back from this? You know, am I going to be the same? What do I going to do when I come back from this? You know, am I going to be the same? What do I, you know, what do I want to do? And I was looking back and I was like, you know what? It's okay. You know what I mean? I made my mark. I definitely impacted a lot of people. I get to, you know, travel the world, teach. And I became at peace at not getting that second world title. And coming back, I said, you know what? I'm only going to do what I'm totally inspired for.

I don't feel like I have to compete at the Worlds anymore. The Worlds, in fact, is the most difficult tournament for me because I'm coaching my students for multiple days before I even step foot on the mat. I have to compete for two days you know once you get older it's hard to run it back yeah yeah man you wake up the next day sore oh my gosh 24 hour weight cut exactly coming in on weight exactly and uh and so i said you know what i want to be 100 inspired i only want to put myself out there when i can be at my best you know started doing mainly just super fights, bigger events where I can just focus on one opponent, but I would go against really great guys. I could pick and choose who I wanted to face. Then I said, you know what? MMA is something I really want to devote myself to and

make a run at something special. And so after that, I also said, you know, let's do a lot of MMA, let's go for it. And, uh, and so I just basically have been doing jujitsu super fights in between my MMA fights. And, uh, you know, it's been amazing now. Um, you know, I've been able to really figure out how to be at my best every time I'm out there, I'm having a lot more fun. And in that timeframe, you know, the reason why we're talking about this, you brought it up. I've learned to respect my body, you know, and, um, and I have a whole new routine, a whole new process because that injury was like, it was a wake-up call,

you know, on how I was treating my body. And, and so now, you know, I appreciate the recovery so much. And I recovered just as much as I train, you know? And, you know, like I had a great strength conditioning coach who would preach to me about recovery and he would help me a lot, but a lot of it was in one ear and out the other, you know, I didn't fully embrace it until I got hurt. Um, and now, you know, I feel like my routine has just multiplied. I'm happier, you know, because I can train better. And I've learned how to switch my mindset where it was like, I, it was only a productive, productive training day. If I killed myself, you know, no, you know, if I, if I spend an hour doing yoga or stretching or going for a walk, you know, um, doing mobility and things like that, that is part of my training.

You know, that is part of my meditation, getting my mind right now. It's like I don't see that as a waste of time. Now it's like, no, this is making my body better. It's making me recover better, which makes me happier because I feel better. And then it makes me train better, which also makes me happier. You know, I feel better when I'm training. So, um, now I have a really dialed in process and, um, and that's why I feel like I'm going to be able to, you know, compete longer than most. And, uh, you know, I'm 34 and I still feel like I'm in my prime and ready to keep going.

Hey, a hundred percent, brother. It sounds like you've definitely, you've, you've, we all figure out a way to, to make our way up the, up There's more roadblocks and stumbling than others, but it sounds like that one injury really helped you facilitate a mindset that takes your body into consideration and puts a focus on recovery and some of these different tools. We know you just got out of the cryo tub. What are some the the tools and tactics that you use to help your body heal outside of man i do a lot so i do a lot of foam rolling you know definitely a lot of stretching mobility i i last year i was fortunate enough to come across a new teacher in my life his name is cameron sh. He is a free form movement specialist. He's basically the innovator and creator of free form movement. He's also a martial artist. He, he ended up watching one of my fights online and just invited me to come train with him. And I took him up on that offer. And, you know, I've been spending time with him. Uh, worked with him a few times now out in Miami. He was a part of my last fight camp.

And, um, you know, I, I love that, you know, just moving, you know, and becoming a better mover, which is basically what martial arts is. Is that, is that more like, um, animal flow or parkour or what kind of style of movement patterns? You know, it's hard to explain what it is. It's hard to give it just one term yeah definitely animal style you know animal flow um it's kind of a little bit of mix of of yoga mobility um you know they they there's a lot of like a sort of calisthenics in it involved too gymn type stuff. Basically, the way he says it is,

you know, every movement has sort of an energy and you carry that into the next movement and you just flow, you know, you just sort of follow your body, whatever it's telling you to do. It's telling you to go here, you go there. You might be on your butt, you might be on your back, you might be on your knees crawling, you might come up to your feet for a second and you just you know you might roll like you just kind of keep moving and then you know you you uh dial those movements in to where you have control of every ounce of your or every inch of your body and you know you're you're just breathing and you're just going with it you know it's really meditative it's a lot like yoga um but more movement you know you don't you don't stop you don't get stuck and there's no real pattern you know you can kind of explore beyond any set pattern

um but uh i've really enjoyed that doing that um so shout out to Cameron out there in Miami at Budokan University. But, you know, I do a lot of stuff, man. Epsom salt baths, cold shower, you know, like the Wim Hof type stuff. Oh, yeah. Cryotherapy. You know, the gym where I train at now, my strength and conditioning coach, Luke Tyree, he just moves into a new place where he's partnered up with like a therapy center. They have hot, hot, cold tubs. They're ready to go. Um, you know, infrared sauna, uh, you know, I have infrared sauna at my

house. Um, so I'm big on that too. Uh, just walking, you know, like take the dogs for a walk or just, you know, just do a walk for the sake of walking i love that for sort of mental you know visualize you know and just get in the vibe um listen to some good music or whatever um you know i have a theragun i have i have a massage chair i have the norma tech i have the norma tech pants the norma techs are sick aren't they i got into those at a crossfit conference and i was blown away nothing better at the end of a training day chilling out on your bed with those pants on you know i talked with uh the head one of the head strength coaches of the golden state warriors while they were fucking winning they're still winning it all but he was i was like tell

me give me the fucking dirt what are these guys using that nobody else is using and he's like honestly norma tech because it just flushes everything and they do such volume you know and they constantly get ticky tack knee dings and ankles and shit like that but to move all that through and then i was like god how beneficial would that be for mma and jujitsu where you got guys you know slicing through with their shins across your your teardrop quad or you're getting kicked in the leg over and over again it's right where quad connects you're doing sprints yeah yeah you're it's just volume right and that for weight training included weight training excluded just the martial arts training alone is going to have enough dings there but you know basically you you pump all this stuff back through into the bloodstream and you allow your liver and your kidneys to process it and your body to move through that metabolic waste much faster.

It's an incredible tool. When I'm in fight camp, I'm using those every night. So I've invested a lot. I have more than most. But over time, I've just accumulated it. And I see it as an investment, you know, it's like, Hey, if that gives me, you know, uh, one more hard training session, another one more year of competition, you know, it's all worth it to me. So, um, yeah, I've got a lot of, I've got a lot of toys. My house is basically like a therapy

center. Um, and just, I have the mindset for it now as well. Um, and I, I basically move every day. You know, the other thing too is, you know, a lot of times like it now as well. Um, and I, I basically move every day. You know, the other thing too is, you know, a lot of times like you get done with that hard Friday or Saturday, you know, morning session, afternoon session, and then you don't move again until Monday, you know what I mean? Or something. And you just lay around, that's not recovery, you know? Um, so like I, I, I immediately go for a walk or I see my my body worker, you know, right away. I get in the Epsom salt bath. I do hot, cold. You know, I get in the pants like I do something for recovery right away. And then the next day I'm doing yoga like Sunday is like a yoga day or a walk day.

You know, a lot of stretching something like that um i don't just lay around anymore you know just kind of keep moving you know yeah active recovery is absolutely crucial that's awesome what what have you do you what do you do in your spare time for hobbies do you read any like interesting books that you've read or documentaries you watch um yeah you know i i i try to save time for that sort of stuff many times it's hard you know i have my my business my school in oklahoma city which is you know 24 7 um you know i have my affiliates a lot of traveling seminars try to visit all my affiliate schools plus i have my my competition so um it can be hard um but uh you know, I definitely love documentaries or good shows, you know, from time to time when I can get into it.

You know, I mean, for me, it's like so much of the day is training. And then when it's over, the rest of that time is dedicated to feeling better, you know. So, but what's cool is like I don't need a hobby, you know. Like my life is so awesome. Like, you know, like my life is so awesome. Like, I mean, getting to travel is so much fun. I love traveling is definitely my funnest thing, you know, the thing that I enjoy the most, like just exploring new places, making new friends, you know, getting to share my

passion with other people, you know, like I never met you before until this trip, you know? And so, uh, like that's the coolest thing for me. Like I got to teach today, you know, here at the, um, the 10th planet inside, inside the honored Academy and, uh, you know, get a good, good vibe and energy from everybody. Um, you know, roll with you yesterday, you know, just making friends, the, the, the interactions, the real life exchanges, um, with people all over the world, that is definitely what I love the most. And that's blended right into my work. You know, like,

you know, you see those, those quotes on Instagram. It's like, find, find something that, you know, you love, uh, allows you to, you know, make money and also make you happy and travel or something like that. I mean, my life is all those things mixed into one. I get to travel. I get to be active. I get to make friends and meet people all over the world. I get to learn and teach. And I get to challenge myself in arguably the most extreme way possible.

The greatest test of them all. Yes, exactly. So my life is amazing i don't i don't even i don't have time and i don't need anything else to plug in there yeah that's awesome do you teach quite a bit at your at your school back in oklahoma city or is it mostly like other guys do you do guest coaching because you're traveling so often um no i i have some set classes that i teach that you know my students are they're well aware of my schedule and i you know i travel a lot and I'm also fighting, you know, I'm in camp and I'm getting ready for stuff. But, uh, but teaching is, is how I balance things out as well. You know, when I'm in a fight camp and you know, like I've just been grinding all day and had a

hard sparring or something like that, I'd like to put my gi on and get on the mats and teach, you know, jujitsu keeps me balanced. Um, and, uh, you know, it's just like, no matter what mood you're in, you know, how stressed or how like overwhelmed or whatever you can be, you know, whatever's going on in your life. For me, when I put my gi on, I'm on the mat and I look around, I see my guys, I see my students, my brothers, the guys I love so much. You know, I have, my father started our academy 25 years ago, you know, um, I've grown up in that place and I have many black belts that have been with me, you know, 10 to 15 years, you know, and, uh, that's my family. Those are my brothers, you know? And so when I'm on the mat with them, I can't help but to smile. You know, I can't help but to be happy and and watch them, you know, you know, I see the generations, you know, I see my old students with my with my new blue belts, the younger guys coming up.

And I just see the, you know, this thing that was created in Oklahoma out of nowhere from my father's dream, passed down to me and through them, you know, there's really no other place I'd rather be. So I love to teach, you know, I, on average, I'm teaching three to four times a week. I have my comp training class I do every Saturday morning where we grind really hard and I, you know, really focus on my, my competitors, my normal classes throughout the week. And, um, you know, I have so many amazing students. So if I'm home, I'm teaching. If I'm home, I'm teaching. Um, if I'm traveling, obviously I'm not there. I'm not able to teach, but even when I'm traveling, I'm usually teaching. So, um, I love to teach, you know, teaching is, is definitely part of my martial arts passion. Um, and, you know,

I think that's sort of part of your role as a martial artist, you know, as you learn, you should be passing that on, you know, um, you know, sharing your, your story, your experiences, your knowledge, you know, uh, everybody has their perspective everybody has their way that they do it um how they learn to survive you know and be offensive in their own way and um and so you know that's that's one thing i'm so thankful for is i do have many black belts um and so when i do travel my students get to learn you know. There's no shortage of great teachers. Yeah. And it's the same, you know, the same foundation, but a totally different style, you know.

And so, you know, it's really great. But I love to teach. I'm always teaching. Oh, yeah. That's awesome, brother. You touched on something that really strikes home for me. I could always tell. I'm not going to name names, but I could always tell because at AKA,

we had a lot of guys come through there to train. Joe Silva, when he was running the UFC, would send a lot of guys to AKA, and there was great times. I got to train with Lyoto Machida and a ton of other amazing fighters that will be some of the greatest of all time for sure. There was always this sense. We could tell you know in the locker room who was withholding of information some guys would show up and they

would fucking try to ask us for everything and they wouldn't teach us a damn thing you know hey how do you do that one move you're so good at and they're like well i kind of do it like this they don't really show you and then other guys would show up and they'd be like yeah man here's what you can do i'll show you oh this is how I do it, but you got longer arms. So maybe it worked better this way. And then you're like, fuck dude. Thank you. And then that, that idea of reciprocity is instilled. And it's like, I want to show you everything I can. Let me fucking give to you now. Thanks for giving me that new tool in the toolbox, you know, and it's, and it's received and that's kind of, it's not kind of, that is how it is in life you know when you meet people that that want to take and don't want to give you it's it kind of pushes you away and then when you

have somebody that's just fucking giving and let me share with you you know this helped me out in this way not even in jiu-jitsu in anything you know that's a person i'm attracted to that's we're all attracted to yeah 100 you know I've read different things before, basically says something like, you know, the quickest way to success is to help others, you know? Um, and that's what I feel is a part of being what I like to call a true martial artist. You know, you give back, you, you are also a teacher and in reality, if you hold things back, you hold things in, you're not only are you not helping anybody, which is going to, you know, uh, hold you back, you hold things in, you're not only are you not helping anybody, which is going to, you know, hold you back, but you're also holding back your creativity in the way that you know what you do. You know, it's one thing to be able to, to do a move, but can you break it down

so in depth and detail that someone that has no experience whatsoever could understand it and perform it just like you, you know, um, that's what really makes you better, you know, teaching like, you know, you might think, you know, something, but go over there and teach that person that's on their first day, you know, teach them, you know, what, you know, or, or some sort of technique or something like that and all of a sudden you're like uh how do i even communicate this you know and so for me i definitely feel like a big reason why i've been able to keep evolving in my jiu-jitsu specifically and stay relevant at the top of the world-class guys, stay inside that group for so long is because I've been teaching this whole time.

I'm always studying the game, what's going on, how it's you know all the innovations and and then i'm trying to you know keep my what i do uh you know relevant and able to you know like i don't want my style to get passed up you know like of course you have your your your sort of game you know but if your game stays the same yeah if it stays the same it's not going to work, you know, so you have to keep it evolving. Right. And, and then teaching, you know, and passing that on because my guys are competing all the time too. And I don't want them to use my 10 year old game and then it's not working, you know? And so always trying to evolve, you know, as a teacher will also help you as a, you know, as a competitor. Um, but, uh, yeah, you know, being able to break down what you do and communicate it, you know, and just trying to make the most advanced things seem simple, simple to understand what are your concepts, what are your wise, you know, you could say, I do this. Well, why, why do you do it like that you know because it feels better I have it's just better I'm stronger there you know just better it's just better

yeah you know but when you have to say the why you know you have to tell them because I get more leverage I can move an inch here I can move an inch here I can understand his reaction you know I blah blah blah blah blah blah I can neutralize you know then you're really diving deep and, um, and you can take what you do and go even further. And then you can say, Oh, that's how it works. Let me connect this here and put this there. And, you know, and yeah, you, you, you know, more about who you are and why you do what you do, um do versus just, ah, that's how I've always done it, you know? Yeah. A hundred percent. So you're seven and oh, now you've been fighting in Bellator

for a few years, correct? No, actually last year was my first year. Okay. So you fights in Bellator last year, all last year. It's you're new to Bellator and Bellator is on the rise. It's coming up as, you know, arguably the fucking the fucking number two position in the UFC, and there's a lot of guys. Number two without a doubt. They're coming in to the UFC and doing quite well. There's an exceptional level there. Where do you see yourself in the middleweight division,

and what are you seeing on the schedule? Well, after last year, I definitely feel like I'm one of the top contenders in the middleweight division. You know, it was kind of a step-by-step process. You know, I was the legacy champion when it was still legacy before it turned into LFA. And Bellator was the next kind of step that made the most sense because I only had four fights. And so I came in, you know, like unranked, so to speak, you know, and every fight was tougher. My last fight was against Chris Honeycutt,

you know, who was like he at that time, I believe he was like six and one in Bellator. He was on a four fight winning streak and was one of the best in the middleweight division. And I was able to defeat him. It was the first time I went the distance in my career. All my six fights before that were all finishes. And so, you know, getting that victory over him, I feel like, you know, solidified myself as the top four or five in the division. There's a couple other guys that have some, you know,

that are on good runs. They have Musassi in the division now too, you know, who just won, he just won his first fight at the end of last year as well inside Bellator. So it kind of depends on how they, you know, see everything, especially with Musassi. He's only had one fight, but he's Musassi. So are they going to give him the title shot?

There's also John Salter, who's on a good run. I think he's on a five- or six-fight win streak inside Bellator with pretty much all finishes as well. So there's a few guys up there, but I feel like I'm one of them as well. But I'm not like gonna say oh i deserve that title shot now i'm down to do one or two more i'm gonna just be that much better uh but i would like to to fight for that belt sometime at the end of this year or early next year um and uh you know go for it go for it all the way um but i'm definitely very happy with bella tour uh they're

they're you know a great show so professional everyone treats you so well everyone's happy you know um and there's a lot of jiu jitsu guys within the organization as well so it's nice to feel like that love from the jiu jitsu you know it's's like, Oh, you're, you know, brand new in MMA, you know, they respect me for who I was or who I am from, from jujitsu. You're coming from something. You're not nobody. Right. Right. Yeah. And, uh, and they've been great to work with. So, you know, um, I'm just, I'm ready for this year, man. I'm excited to get back in there. Hopefully springtime looks like maybe April I'll be, uh,

be back in the cage and uh yeah like i said one or two more and i'm ready for that belt fuck yeah man i'm excited i'm really rooting for you it's even fun to watch too i remember the first time i watched you fighting bellator and i was like is that shanji i saw him in the corner and you know it's funny because like uh having not competed a ton in jujitsu because i was always fighting and it wasn't my passion my passion was muay thai and striking and things like that but i got into it you know i learned from getting suffocated underneath stephen bonner like i need to get better at this and then during that process fell in love with jujitsu everyone does it's fucking it's amazing right it is and

i remember going to the master worlds with my old man oh nice and uh my dad got his black belt before me oh dude that's beautiful yeah that's something we have in common hell yeah man he got his black belt from um dave camarillo which stayed with gorilla uh we made the change at aka to bring in check matt so i got my black belt from leandro but you know he had competed so much and we were at the master worlds and he goes you know i know you're gonna be watching for me but anytime you hear the crowd cheer and the whole crowd cheers it's two people it's either solo or shanji and i was like really and he goes swear to god there's not a guy in here that will not cheer when they're on the mat a fucking foot sweep one point scored and advantage the crowd's gonna

roar and i was like damn like that and really you know got got i'd read salo's book you know back in the day it was one of the first jiu-jitsu books my dad bought incredible book oh man you know you like you see the detail and you're like it's like the bible it's it is and there's just so much knowledge it's always changing but that that in and of itself was like wow man these guys are truly legends in a sport where everyone has their own camp everyone has their own team their own tribe and it doesn't matter who you are you fucking love these guys yeah and that was really bad i was like god damn that's your fucking corner like it pumped me up seeing that yeah man i'm i'm so blessed and thankful to have them you know

as brothers and uh and as my teachers and training partners, I've learned so much from them and they are truly incredible. Uh, you know, when it comes to jujitsu, like their jujitsu is timeless. It's timeless, you know, uh, definitely it has that, the old school roots, you know, uh, most people would refer to it as old school you know as far as its simplicity um but um but its effectiveness is timeless you know shanji he won his first world title as a black belt in 2004 his last world title he won in 2015 an 11 year span you know um from being you know early 20s you know to like 34 35 years old still at the top you know uh and and it's not like he's using a whole new set of techniques and moves it's the same jiu jitsu you know um it, it's so incredibly technical and efficient, you know, that they don't waste

energy. Basically, here's how I describe it. Hibido jujitsu is this. We might make a mistake and fall a little behind, but there's no checkmate. You're not going to check, you're not going to checkmate Shonji, you know, uh, his, his protection, his defense is so good. Um, his frames,

he's, he's world famous for his frames and back defense, back escapes. Um, he always, he's always in the fight, right? He's always in the fight.

He's never, you never, he, you never have seen him get dominated. His guard path, his guard has only been passed once in his whole life in competition but now however on the other side of things if you make a mistake and he gets ahead on you you're never coming back it's the beginning of the end it's too tight yeah there's no way back um and uh you know i'm just so thankful to

you know have been able to have access to that sort of jujitsu and learn that. Um, I feel like, you know, whether it's Gi, no Gi, you know, this time, this format points, no points submission, dah, dah, dah, dah. And MMA, you know, it translates to everything, you know, um, that is like, um, the, the real beauty of it, you know, it, it, it's so simple that you can use it in all, all formats, you know? Um, but, uh, yeah, those guys, I mean, solo is a, is a genius when it comes to jujitsu. He, uh, you know, man, I could go on and on and on but for sure i love it yeah yeah

masters is like the he better jiu jitsu tournament pretty much i mean that they've uh always put on a show i mean saw one with a broken arm a couple years ago yeah it was incredible and uh i've been able to double gold there the last two years in a row that's my favorite tournament to do nowadays um just because it's like it's almost like a reunion you know all these old school guys have I've been able to double gold there the last two years in a row. That's my favorite tournament to do nowadays. Just because it's like, it's almost like a reunion, you know, all these old school guys have been competing against each other for like, you know, 10, 15, 20 plus years. They're all back together. You know, they're all doing it for the pure love of it. You know what I mean?

Everyone's happy win or lose. They're all hugging. And like, you know, just there's no like animosity or you know uh like you know like everyone's just together you know it's not team versus team you know it's like this is for the love of jiu-jitsu and uh you know yeah it's a world title but it's not like you know it's a big tournament but they're not doing it for a title you know it's not status yes it's about competition it's about being there with guys it's so much fun yeah my dad used to describe it to me that way he's like trust me man you'll get older you'll you'll and you'll start going against guys and you'll only see him at that tournament he sees guys from florida and new york that he never sees until he's in vegas at the master worlds and it's like fuck man it's so good to see

you and then oh shit we got each other next you know and there's no it's no there's no weirdness it's like and i've seen him give like awkwardly long hugs at the beginning of a match because he fucking really cares about the guy he's about to go against that's so funny you brought up the hugs i i did like a little parody video of like the adult worlds versus the master worlds and when i did the master worlds portion i like with the guy that one of my black belts that was in the video with me his name's shiloh we over exaggerated the hugs like we hugged each other like five or six times you know what i mean you pick the guy up you hug him you know what i mean they raise the hand then you hug him again then you raise his hand you know You know what I mean? You look at the audience. Like, everyone is just so happy, you know?

But, yeah, that tournament is amazing. You got to do it sometime, man. Yeah, man. I want in. I want in. We just moved from Vegas. I was not bummed to get the job here and on it, but definitely want to make my way back out there.

My wife's from there. So we got a lot of family there. It's a fucking cool spot. My buddy Tom Lawler's out there. Yeah. I went against Tom one time at ADCC. That's awesome. Yeah.

That's cool, man. Yeah. And Noad Lahat, who fights in Bellator, Israeli Army guy, got his black belt from Ricardo Vieira. Okay. Really, really good guy. Long-time teammate. Well, fuck, man. It's been awesome having you here.

How often do you come through town to Austin? Because you said you have a satellite school up in Dallas, right? In Dallas and here in Austin as well um so i try to get down here about once a year um but uh man i wouldn't be surprised if i try to take that up to to two times a year you know like uh the this place on it is uh is so cool austin is a great city you know i got to work out with eric uh primal swolder while i was down here and uh got some great sessions from him learned a lot meet you you know taught here at the 10th plan i have a seminar i had a seminar last night at my affiliate austin submission fighting i have another seminar tomorrow um so you know i just

i feel the love down here so you know it's like a six hour drive it's not that bad um yeah i wouldn't be surprised if i came back down one more time this year for sure hell yeah brother it's been an absolute pleasure where can people find you online where can people follow you uh well i'm pretty easy to find on social media uh my instagram is lovato jr bjj um it's l-o-v-a-t-o uh jr bjj uh facebook.com slash LovatoJrBJJ. Twitter, same thing. So they can find my social media. My personal website is LovatoJr.com. My academy website for my school in Oklahoma City is OKBJJ.com.

Anyone out there that comes through Oklahoma, they're more than welcome to stop by my school. People interested in seminars can hit me up through my social media. And yeah, thanks Onnit for having me on the podcast, for supporting me and all the love that I get from you guys. Definitely really appreciate it. Fucking pleasure, brother. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for listening to the Onnit podcast with my man, Rafael Lovato Jr. Please leave us a five-star rating. It helps other people check out the podcast. Look to the show notes for more information on where you can find Rafael Lovato Jr. and follow him throughout his fight career. Thanks for tuning in, guys.

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