Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #210 Dan Doty

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

Dan Doty is most notably an outdoorsman and associate of MeatEater in times past. In the conversation we get into some stuff below the surface of his life as a seeker, psychenaut, and conscious father. We also get into some of his more recent work as a men’s guide in life. He’s based out of Maine and has some big stuff in the works there. Please enjoy y’all! Connect with Dan:   Website: dandoty.com  Instagram: @danieldoty  Sponsors:   Soul CBD Head to mysoulcbd.com  and punch in “KKP” at checkout for 15% off the best in the CBD biz. PaleoValley Some of the best and highest quality goodies I personally get into are available at paleovalley.com, punch in code “KYLE” at checkout and get 15% off everything! Lucy Go to lucy.co and use codeword “KKP” at Checkout to get 20% off the best nicotine gum in the game, or check out their lozenge. Cymbiotika Head to Cymbiotika’s site(link below) and find out for yourself the power of his incredible medicines. Also use the codeword “KYLE15” at checkout to save 15% on all orders including subscriptions. Accumulate an additional 5% off for each additional product ordered up to five! cymbiotika.com  Connect with Kyle:   Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys   Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back everybody. We've got a guest that I listened to a long time ago and kind of just fell off my radar but was still crushing it and doing amazing things. Dan Doty. You might have heard Dan on the Joe Rogan Experience. I think he's been a guest a few times. um learned some really cool things i didn't realize he was i thought he had something to do with mediator tv didn't realize he produced it and um obviously we're super close with steve and all those guys so we have a lot to talk about on this one we really talk about the men's movement quite a bit um dan's known for being a hunter and a tracker and a psychonaut, I guess. That was new to me as well. So there was a lot of cool stuff and a lot of awesome parallels in this conversation. I know you guys are going to dig it. Dan is somebody that I've learned a lot from.

I certainly do on this episode. He's a father and just an awesome, awesome human being. And he gives, he gives me a lot of hope knowing that there are people like him in the world, pushing the needle and getting people to find their best selves. We'll, we'll for sure run this one back on another date. I really enjoyed this one with him. There's a number of ways you can support this podcast. Don't forget, leave us a five-star rating so other people can see it. We're The Cool Review. With one or two ways, the show has helped you out in life.

Or just something you like about it. I mean, maybe the show hasn't helped you at all, and you just really enjoy the commentary. And in no way, shape, or form has it changed your life. That's fine, too. But yeah, all those ratings are appreciated they keep um keep people seeing the new eyes fresh on the show so that's a good thing and of course support our sponsors because these guys make this show possible we are sponsored by

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So that could be 40% off your first order and an additional 25% each month at symbiotica.com and use code Kyle15 at checkout. Without further ado, my man, Dan Doty. Dan Doty, welcome to the podcast, brother. Hey, excited to be here, man. Nice to meet you. Yeah, good to meet you as well. I was hoping we could do it in person, but these are different times, so we're making

do. Yeah, I thought about trying to drum up a way to make an excuse to go, but it didn't happen. Do you live out in Bozeman, Montana? No, man. I kind of wish. No, that's not true. I just moved my family to the coast of Maine. We just bought a property real close to the coast of Maine, kind of living in a hidden away paradise here on the East Coast. Cool. Yeah. I saw the TED Talk you did back in 2010 in Bozeman and I was like, I got a trip.

I got one of those go fast camper shells for the back of my truck. And I'm going to road trip with my son later this summer. And I was like, that would be a cool way to run it back with you. But no worries. I've watched a couple of your podcasts that you did with Rogan back in the day. And I've been following you. I think you did, did you come out to Paleo FX to speak at times? No, man. No. Okay. Somebody was, I mean, I know there was people there that had heard of you and were trying to get you out for

that. I don't even know if you're aware of it, but you were on the Austin radar for a while, for sure. Talk about your life growing up and kind of what led you to the work that you're doing right now. Yeah, man, here's, here's the, here's the quick version or a version, I guess is I grew up in the, in the, about as tiny of a fucking town as you can imagine in North Dakota. Um, and you know, 500 people on the, just the fucking pancake, flat, cold, frigid plains of our nation's center. And I grew up in a family that was super loving and together, but also completely 100% shut down in terms of some of the softer human qualities that I think we all have, our emotions and our affection. And for example, I think I told my mom when I was two, I didn't want her to hug me. And she somehow

listened to me until I graduated high school. So that gives an example of there's a lot of love, but just not a lot of showing that love. I was a pretty, I had a pretty sort of, I don't know if it's standard to most people, but to me, it's a standard Midwestern upbringing. I was capital of the football team. I was in martial arts my whole childhood. I was a black belt in Taekwondo. I played in metal bands. I had a pretty small universe, right? I didn't have much vision outside of my little life in a rural place. That was my youngest years. Yeah, that's, I grew up in a small town in the Silicon Valley of 120,000. So I can't really even picture that, you know, like Sunnyvale was, Sunnyvale was by all considerations, you know, 10X smaller than San Jose and smaller than San Francisco and Oakland, but definitely a different field. I think my graduating class in my senior year was over 2,000 kids.

I had 13. I had 13 in my class. And you know what? This is a really weird little thing. But recently, so out here in the Northeast, there's a lot of Amish communities. And I'm going through this really weird sort of inquiry into my own life. And I didn't grow up in that type of traditional culture.

It wasn't that at all. And yet, when I sort of visit these traditional cultures around here, there's something there that feels very home-like and familiar to me. so i'm just kind of trying to pinpoint and map out how different my childhood was and it was man it was pretty different actually you know the best reference point i can give i don't know if you've ever heard of a show called letter kenny on uh hulu no fucking hilarious man but it's about a tiny town in Canada and it's about how there's the druggies and the hockey players and the hicks, right? And anyway, it really strikes a chord in

me. So if anybody wants to know kind of how it felt to grow up, that's a good place to go check it out. That's awesome. So you're in a small town and obviously, I mean, there's places you grow up where you're just kind of tuned into nature. I remember Rogan talking about how in California, you almost miss nature because there's so much light pollution at night. You don't see the stars and the weather is such where it's just like sweater and jeans or tank top and shorts. You know, it's like there's no real cold winter or brutal summer. And there's some parts of California that get pretty hot in the summer, but not like Arizona. And, you know, there's no real stormy season, even though it rains every now and then, that kind of thing. I first like really touched that when I went to school at ASU.

And then now being in Texas for the last four years, it's like, oh yeah, we've, we've have clear winters, clear summers, and it's kind of a coin flip in the spring and the fall. Um, what really tuned you into nature? Cause you've, you've done a lot of different things that I guess have drawn you towards men's work. And, uh, I listened to an old podcast you did last year with Remy Warren. where you're talking about how he, maybe less on the woo-woo side, but definitely more just kind of through happenstance stumbled upon a career in which it unlocked his inner wild man. It connected him to something deeper. Where along your path did you really start to feel called into the wild? And was that just innate from the beginning? You know, I think it was, but it came out in a couple of ways. So I'm actually right now in the middle of working on a piece of writing about that exact question, kind of an outdoor-oriented bio of myself. And I think it was innate, but it's funny. The part of North Dakota I grew up in was pure farm country.

And the only trees you saw were planted by a human's hands or a machine, right? And it was like a prairie situation. It wasn't, I didn't grow up sort of immersed in nature like I probably would have liked. But when I was 13, I was invited to a wilderness trip by my cousin's church group into the Boundary Waters Wilderness Canoe Area, which is in northeastern Minnesota. And we did like a seven-day canoeing wilderness expedition. It was a group of nine young kids and a husband and wife and then this old pastor that liked to get his dick out and walk around the campfire nude.

He didn't molest us or nothing, but he skinny dipped and all that. That guy sounds like he's got a red star on his house on google that trip blew my fucking 13 year old mind in two ways like i had never like i just had no clue man i'd never done anything like that and all of a sudden we're away from all the cars and the houses and there's just rocks and trees and birds and i mean it just like it it it was a spiritual sort of wildly expansive experience and it i joke about like two of my biggest passions in life came from that i fell in love with nature i fell in love with the wilderness i also fell in love with uh with one of the girls on the trip. And so I kind of joke, those are my two big passions in life, women and nature. And my wife probably doesn't want me to say that online, but yeah, man, it just, it completely opened something in me that never, ever even kind of shut down before

or since I guess. And so I'll give you a quick bio of like, that's the early years in nature. But I went to college in Northeastern Minnesota, and I just sort of immersed myself in outdoor activities. My first career outside of college. So in college, I studied philosophy, I studied anthropology, I studied sort of world studies, and I actually traveled abroad a bunch during college. And I share that because it was a big deal. So I was like this little tiny town hick who kind of goes to college for a minute and then starts traveling the world. And the most impactful thing I did was I did an anthropological field study in Ecuador

and we lived with three different indigenous groups in Ecuador over the course of a short period of time. And I was introduced to shamanism, was introduced to ayahuasca ceremonies, was introduced to and we lived with three different indigenous groups in Ecuador over the course of a short period of time. And I was introduced to shamanism, was introduced to ayahuasca ceremonies, was introduced to just fucking life in this wild sort of explosive way. And so that really set me up. So when I graduated college,

I became a wilderness therapy guide. I didn't know what that was. I was actually living in Panama with my girlfriend at the time and I ran out of money and I was writing a novel and just sort of living this sort of wildlife and I needed cash. So I went on Craig's list and found a wilderness therapy guiding job, which I didn't know what that was. And so I showed up in Utah, did the training and ended up starting my first career, which was ecstatically perfect for me. It was just, I got to be this

older brother figure. I spent hundreds, close to a thousand days in the wilderness, guiding young people, helping them open up, helping them be who they am. And all along, even without knowing it at the time, starting to sort of open up the doors inside of me that were pretty locked shut. So that first career, man, really set the tone. And it wasn't necessarily a conscious choice to just work with boys, but it was where I was put. And then I really became fairly, I would say, yeah, obsessive with the question, why are these young men having a hard time in life? What's going on here? And then towards the end of my time at that, I started to specialize with fathers and sons specifically.

So I would notice the dynamic between fathers and sons. And it just, that hooked me. That was it. I was like, what the fuck is going on here? What is not happening? What is happening that these obviously good men with good hearts just can't simply show up and love their kids and know how to give love and know how to communicate. And so anyway, that was like the inception of this sort of wild path that I've taken in terms of males, masculinity, and men's work. That was really where it started for me.

Yeah, it's such a big one. That was one of the things that really struck a chord. I was trying to draw out of Will Tagle when I had him on the podcast, but he talked about that in one of his eight books. I think it's called Walking with Bears. I've mentioned it a bunch on this podcast. And he talked about how he had all the degrees you could get in college, PhD in psychology, and was a licensed therapist down in Houston when he started working with, man, now I'm forgetting the guy's name, Bearheart Williams. And Bearheart took him to see some elders and they were doing

traditional sweat lodges and things like that. And he said, one night they're around a campfire and all the elders were kind of giving him shit. They're like, oh, does that even work? And he's like, what do you mean does that work? It's the best we have. And as he got honest, he was like, it never really heals anybody. It works to a degree, but it's not healing people. And they said, maybe it's because you're doing it from an office. Maybe it's because you're doing it indoors. And he said, well, how would you work with somebody to heal them?

And he said, I would take them. Every one of them said, we take them for a walk in nature. We analyze their gait. We see how they tune into the eco field. We see if they're in communion with the surroundings. We see if they feel safe or not outdoors and in nature. And so much of that spoke to me because it's a huge missing component. Pre-screens even, it was a missing component. And obviously now in the modern world, we're seeing more and more of the deleterious

effects of the human experiment we're in. Yeah, man. I was just a kind of a dumb, naive kid when I was out there at that time. But I would joke with people, people would ask me, do you have a therapist? I'd be like, no, motherfucker, I have a sleeping bag. I sleep on the ground, right? And I didn't even know what that meant at the time, but it meant something. And the other thing that happened was that I spent enough time out there with not much to do, right? I mean, you can imagine if you're out for, the kid's out for 120 days and I'm out for a big chunk of that with them. We hike from camp to camp, we do some journaling, we do some circlesatic experience of being tuned in and completely sort of slowed down and relaxed, right? And that was something that I couldn't, I don't know how you would ever pay or invest in that sort of experience other than just

actually that much time, right? I actually know you can do it quicker with the right guidance, but yeah, that was that time that I just feel so wildly grateful to have sort of stumbled into that path to basically spend my early and mid twenties out under the stars on the ground, helping people unearth their own inner blocks. And in doing so sort of begin to soften mine, which actually didn't happen. So the next thing I did in my life is I moved to New York City. I became a New York, I wanted to get a higher degree, right?

So I moved to New York City, became a teaching fellow. So what that meant is I basically traded a free master's of education for teaching in the Bronx for a couple of years. And that was just a beautiful, beautiful experience. And I basically was able to leverage my outdoor leadership and mentoring capacity to this group of young people in the 26, 27, 28-year-old guy in New York City, totally burnt out, addiction problems,

porn addiction, sex addiction, just like really in a bad way and not even knowing it and not knowing where to go. It's funny. So I worked in a therapeutic context for a long time, but was blunt-headed enough to not have any reflexive capacity to see that I probably needed some help too. And so anyway, I put myself in that sort of grinder of New York and it chewed me up. And so I had a pretty big breakdown and that was just the biggest turning point of my life.

From that, I found my first men's group. I found my first therapist. I found a meditation community that I really resonated with. I traveled to Peru and actually sat in medicine ceremony for the first time. And it was just like one of those moments that it was like my whole life came down to a single point and then it just, there was a big bang, right? In terms of identity, in terms of who I was, of who I thought I was, just completely exploded. So that was, you know, that's a good, I don't know, I'm about a dozen years out from that now, you know?

And in some sense, it was a real, you know, it was more than initiation. It was a really big deal. Yeah, I think back, I was just to um a couple of dr dan engel's favorite curanderos uh you know people who've been working with ayahuasca for at least a couple of decades and and you know when when dr dan engel tells me that is a guy who spent a year in the amazon so it's uh yeah i take take his word very seriously when it comes to those matters and the fact that he sat with them more than any other people at 400 plus sittings with ayahuasca. And he says he continues to sit with them more than anyone else. I was like, man, I'd love to

meet these guys. And I got to sit with a husband and wife that work in tandem. And we didn't drink medicine. We just, we just talked a lot about some of the different experiences I've had and trajectories and things of that nature and just got to know them. But that was, you know, it brought up a lot for me because I was talking about some of my first journeys, you know, and like the, the doorway that gets opened when you go through, you know, with respect and reverence in the right container that is ayahuasca, if that's done properly, there's really nothing else. Talk about how that shifted you and what were maybe some of the key downloads and new understandings that you got

from those experiences. I'd love to. I actually haven't shared too much publicly about this, but I were not invited to drink right we were invited just to sit and and the shaman uh drank and sang and did a ceremony and did a lot of blessings and and it was you know it was it was just utterly captivating and and beautiful and i'll share something that i like kind of don't want to share but But at the really intense sort of apex of the ceremony when he's singing really hard and really getting after it, he brought it to a crescendo and swear to fucking God, a single bolt of lightning came and hit a tree right by us. And that was the only one, right?

It's not like there was the storm. It's not like it was fucking raining. It was anything. And so that might be the world's just most, you know, random coincidence or, you know, to a 20 year old, uh, impressional young man. I was like, holy fuck, the world is not, the universe is not what I think it is.

And so that really kicked off my entire 20s was a pretty deep dive into study, amateur anthropological study into shamanism. So I think I read every goddamn thing I think I could find. And I traveled, I did some psilocybin ceremonies with, you know, healers in Mexico. I kind of did this traveling sort of gentle foray into shamanism and plant medicine through most of my 20s. So anyway, now fast forward to going to Peru and I worked with a place called Blue Morpho, which I had a great experience with. Is that Don Alberto's place? What's that?

Is that Don Alberto's place? Yeah, man. Yeah, Aubrey's been there. Hamilton? Yeah, in Hamilton. That's one of Aubrey's main teachers. Cool. Yeah, man.

So my experience, I'll share it now. It's just not the normal experience, right? So I did, I think it was five ceremonies in eight days. I did a dieta with it. I did the diet. The experience of it for me, the best way I can explain it was that I felt like I had been wearing a snowsuit my entire life. Coming from North Dakota, that was my reference point. I've been wearing this thick, heavy, claustrophobic, just thing binding me, binding my whole entire body. And I felt like that process, I just stepped the fuck out of it. I unzipped it and all of a sudden I shed tons and tons and tons of built up shit.

And it was really beautiful. And the more important part, I would even say, is that I got stuck open, I guess is maybe the best way to say it. And so for about the next 10 and a half or 11 months, I was in a perpetual ceremony. I tripped for almost a year. So every time I closed my eyes, I lived in Brooklyn at the time. Every time I closed my eyes, I would go into a full, full, complete experience.

Even in waking life, I would would see things i would hear things i was not in what would you consider a a normal state of being right i was i was just i was tripping balls for uh a very long time and and i i say that a little bit flippant i don't say it flippantly i guess right it was it was absolutely terrifying it was absolutely terrifying. It was absolutely terrifying. I was able, I was in a safe place. I used it. I wrote a novel. I recorded an album.

I was in a super creative state. And it was during that time that I sort of processed out of my sort of intense shift and I moved out west. I moved into a little cabin up a river up in Northern Idaho. And I just, actually the first month when I got to the cabin, I think I slept like 16 hours a day for about a month straight. And I knew, you know, I was scared, man. I thought I'd lost it. I had lost it. And I wasn't sure if I would ever sort of come back. And so I kind of very innately or primally felt like I need to get somewhere in nature and I need to chill the fuck out. And so I did.

And I started to slowly put myself back together. A whole year. I mean, I had many of the listeners here have heard of the solo cast I did on a 5-MEO Sonoran Desert Toad journey I had last solstice and how that lasted 17 days. And I literally was losing my mind for 17 days

because every night I'd go to bed, I would enter into just as strong a psychedelic state. And one of the things that comforted me was learning that Carl Jung's Red Book and his Black Books, which came out later, which were the journals of what he used to write the Red Book with, that he underwent something similar, but it lasted four years. And I was like, there's no chance I can withstand this for four years. And thankfully, one of my mentors, Paul Cech, he was able to close that loop for me. But a year, I mean, that just sounds like, knowing that that is even a possibility right now, that a door can be opened that will stay open as long as it needs

to be. I mean, I guess it's all medicine by the end of the day, but the level of that challenge and the fact that it's not like we're held. It's not like you're just hanging out in Peru for the year while you work through this stuff. You're back in mainstream society. Every night I'm going to sleep, I'm entering into the darkest places I've ever been on any medicine. It's as strong as any medicine. And when I wake up, I got to dad. I got to do the dadding deal. I got to be the husband.

I got to do all the things that I need to do to survive and to show up to the responsibilities that I have accumulated over the years. And then I have this deep work to do at nighttime. And Jamie Wheal called it night school, but I'm like, I'm not certain that that's for everyone. No, it is fucking not, man. And I look back, I couldn't be more grateful at this point. At this point, I couldn't be more grateful. It took me a lot of years to become all the way grateful for it. And it's taken me a lot of sort of, you know,

I lived with an ex-girlfriend, that same ex-girlfriend I mentioned earlier. Her name was Jess. And just recently even, we had a call. We talked. And I kind of asked her, you know, like, I have these such intense memories from that time. And I have this whole narrative in my head. And I had to just kind of asked her you know like I have these such intense memories from that time and I have this whole like narrative in my head and I had to just kind of check in and be like is that what was going on you know did it seem like that what was going on to you and and she affirmed it and I just

broke down man I just totally broke down I was like you know because it was such a lonely thing and you know, the benefits are, are insanely real, right? Like I learned to let go over and over and over and over and over and over. And there was never any choice other than that. Right. I'd, I'd get to bed. I'd be like, all right, maybe tonight, you know, it'll be easy. Close my eyes. And then I'd start entering the space and it's like, all right, there's, I get a little emotional even just saying there's no way I can fight this right I mean I learned I learned that if there's any resistance

I put up that it's not going to go well and so I just had to learn to fucking let go and you know that's a valuable skill that's a valuable skill to have and it is a joke kind of and i think that um i wonder sometimes the joke i share is like i either it either wore off or i got used to it and i actually don't know the answer

to what the fuck you know i i one of those two things or some combination of that happened. And, you know, it is interesting to be in that deep of a space for that long on my own. I'm undertaking some pretty substantial Tibetan Buddhist study now, and I have been really since then that good-hearted, young, 28-year-old dude who's sitting in an apartment in Brooklyn by himself, terrified on the most deep existential place of thinking that two things come to mind. A, not having any kind of structure or view or understanding of what was going on. My God, that's hard. That's hard. I had people who loved me, but for whatever reason, I didn't have the wherewithal to reach out to somebody who could have maybe guided me a little bit better. At that time, I just had an exercise. I didn't know how to ask for help.

I didn't. And so I have a lot of compassion for that dude. And then the other part that comes to mind as I sort of get more into, well, I don't know. I kind of lost what I was going to say there, but I just want to reaffirm the now sort of studying the consciousness on a much more particular and precise way. There's just, there is a lot of benefit, right? Like my capacity to support other people and hold space for other people and myself is, it's very fundamentally different now, you know? And yeah, that's, that's something Paul Cech offered to me is he had, that's something Paul Cech offered to me is that he said, you know, and, um, yeah, that's, that's something Paul check offered to me is he had, that's something Paul check offered to me is that he said, you know, if you're ever planning to hold

space for somebody else, you don't want to get a phone call from them, you know, two weeks after a meeting and, uh, and they're in this place and you've never been there before, you know, think of the offering that, that, that, that will that that will support, the fact that you've walked that walk. Certainly that resonates now where at the time I was like, I don't give a fuck about anybody else. I just want to get my brain back in order. I want to believe the things that I used to believe. I want to have some type of something to hold onto to track as a compass. I don't know where my North star is. I don't know how to guide myself right now. And I don't know when it's going to end. It's almost like parenting in a way. There's no manual. This is how it's done. This

is how it's been done. These are the people who have gone through it and done it in a good way. And I think that's what makes it an initiation. Yep. Yeah, I count that as my second big initiation, man. I count my first one as all that time in the woods, in the mountains. In my early 20s, I count the psychedelic experiences as number two. And then, I mean, there's more I can talk about too, but you know, the other thing that had happened that what that experience brought to me was a, a comp, just a complete sort of flip of, um, I would say priority and understanding, you know, I was such a seeker, like all the way, man, you know, like I thought all the things I thought I would be, you know, the, the wilderness stuff, the helping other people, the shamanism, all of that had such a naive, young,

almost beautiful, I look back on it, I had a beautiful intention for my life and I wanted to help so much. And I really feel insane. I somehow lucked out and my young years in my 20s, I got on the right train. I got on the right train and turned my life. And I feel like the experiences I had there set me up in such a good way right? I actually, I stumbled into my next career, which was becoming the producer director of a show called Meat Eater with Steven Rinella.

And that was not in the direction of shamanism. That was not in the direction of sort of wilderness therapy or any of that kind of stuff. And it was really just this incredible fucking thing that I got to get into. And it was both a wildly adventurous, exciting part of my life, but it was also practical. I made a good living and put myself together and got to live half my life out on these wild adventures and half my life just having a cool New York existence. And I also learned skills, man. I learned to tell stories. I did learn to operate a camera, which was fun and all. But more so, I learned how to speak.

I learned how to communicate. I learned how to get a message out and build a brand and all of those things. And that became this just really beautiful little chunk of my life, which lasted about, I guess, another four years. I have these four-year, five-year chunks of my life that seemed to play out. And then towards the end of that, I met my wife, moved back to Montana, got back out West, and then started having babies. And then I actually, I ended that career right around when my first son was born, which was 2016, Duke was born. And then we launched Everyman. I launched this organization that became the center point of my sort of mission and focus for a handful of years, which just to sort of share the punchline, I've now since left Everyman and I've just launched my own deal,

which was the right choice. But yeah, that chunk of time and that, you know, I went out and took Joe Rogan on his, you know, was there on his first deer hunt and went on a couple hunts with him and just had this like, I don't know, I think of that a little bit as just a breather from intensity, but also just sort of like a fucking party, man. Like that's about, that's, you know, if I like to party, but my sense of party is probably isn't the common one. I just like to get as far out in the fucking boonies and, you know, shit in a hole and sit around a fire and eat food and kill a big animal. And, you know, that's a party to me. Yeah. The, the party and I did at ASU,

it would leave me, you know, it, it took its toll on the body and would leave me, you know, not feeling a hundred percent the next day, the, the parties that you have on hunts where you're, you're just as tired the next day, but it's a, you know, the cup is full at least it's not depleting. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's big. Well, I mean, I want to dive in. Thank you for bringing us up to date. And, you know, that's so, it really is cool. I mean, as a, as a fan of Rogan's and yours and somebody, you know, like I was drawn into hunting because of Joe and, and, you know, it's, it's something, you know, it's something my father and my uncles had done a lot growing up.

I'd go on hunts and be a part of the experience, but never really hunted. And then football and fighting just didn't offer enough time to get into it. But now it's something that I, I deeply love and adore. And, um, it is something that connects us to an inherent piece that's missing within. Talk about some of these pieces that you spoke on with what's missing with men today in the world. Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is, it would just be to say probably a lot, you know, but I don't even mean that super uniquely to men. I feel that more and more, I'm just sort of seeing our current reality. I don't know if that's through an accurate lens, but just through what seems to be more sharp,

you know, in my focus. I feel like our men's humanity is the first thing that comes to mind. And that's a big word. But what I mean by that is the full expression of who we fucking are, right? Like in all and the whole spectrum, if you imagined a spectrum of human experience, and that could involve any and all current, future, and past experiences that any human could have, I feel like there's some just general big holes in those spectrums. And it's changing, and this certainly isn't for everyone. So I'm not trying to generalize all the way. But just what it comes down to, oftentimes, you can talk about emotions for sure, that men have not been conditioned or shown or taught how to feel

things. And so there's a hell of a lot of repression that happens in general. And that was the main focus of Everyman, right? That's what we brought forward with Everyman was just saying, hey dudes, life ain't so good when you shove everything down. And there's some ways that you can start to not do that and we can get used to it. We can do it together. And it's a little scary, but it's also a little fun and it'll have a lot of good impact on your life and so that was that uh but what i found doing that work and even even more is that you know our bodies you know like like what's missing is a real connection to our bodies in a in a way that is not i how can i put words to this so you know we may be connected to our bodies going to the gym or, you know, getting fit or optimizing all that way, but there's just this sort of basic sense of the natural state of being. Actually, that's a good way to say it, man. If you broke, you know,

existence into being and doing categories, the whole being category is generally underserved in a lot of men. But what I actually want to drive to here, which I see as the heart of pretty much everything is love. And I don't mean this in a highfalutin or a general or even a spiritual sense. I mean it just actually. I mean actually giving and receiving love. And as a dad, that's where a lot of my work today focused on is with fathers. But that's one way that a man's, you know, you go along your life,

you go along your life, all of a sudden you have a little kid and all of a sudden your heart just fucking ruptures. It's just, Jesus Christ, what is all this feeling, right? What is all this love? Wow, I care so much. Why am I so impacted, right? And so, I mean, there's a lot, you know,

the, I think the soft parts of life are one, right. So the love, the feeling and all, and the, the being and all that, but then there is also on the other side of the spectrum, just sort of like the practical, visceral, archaic, primal ways of being that involve uh you know getting dirty and and sometimes blood and sometimes a lot of discomfort and really just the the the visceral part of um the dirty work of life which you could call that shit masculine you could call it a lot of stuff i think that those terms are are uh sometimes get confusing and not super helpful but um, you know, it's all that, man, just to wrap it up. There's a lot. There's a lot of stuff, but I am encouraged that, you know, there's so much, there's so much sort of foray into this these days, you know, like people like Joe and yourself,

and like, there's so much cool expansion happening these days, it feels like. Yeah. What's resonating with me right now is as you speak about this, there's a softening that's occurring with man, but it's not the softening we're looking for, right? There's a softening that allows us to open our hearts and express ourselves. And in your TED Talk, you use terms like vulnerability, and that's something that gets tossed around a lot in woo circles and things like that. But at the end of the day, it is a valuable term to be able to openly express oneself. And that's something that's stifled culturally for men and women.

So we have a correct softening, which would potentially open our hearts and draw our guard down and allow us to express ourselves in a way where we can feel seen and heard. And maybe that's not happening at the scale we need it to, but that's the work you're doing and the work we're doing. And then there's this actual softening where it's almost like a dumbing down that's happening where it's not necessarily the productive softening. It's the taking men out of nature instead of building things and using our hands and protecting ourselves and protecting our loved ones. We're on a computer all day long with blue light indoors and not really getting after it. There's no blood, sweat, and tears. There's just tears that are welling up inside. No, man, I'm going through that right.

Even just for myself, like I've been on top of this for a long time, but we just made a choice to really change our lifestyle. And just even in the past week, it may sound a little bit cliche, but I bought a truck. I bought a chainsaw. I'm prepping wood to heat our home for the winter. We're getting a boat. I bought a freezer so I can pack it full of meat. And again, that might seem cliche, but it is such a deeply satisfying, for me anyway,

it's such a deeply satisfying way of life and a way of being. And I think that I really need to do a better job at this, but I'm going to share a bit of a quote. So this came from Terry Real, who's a psychologist and has specialized with masculinity in men for a long time. Really, really, really highly valuable body of work Terry Real has.

And so I'm going to, I apologize for sort of butchering his quote, but he tells a quote about being with a tribe in Africa and speaking to the elders and hearing this statement about masculinity in men, which is basically like, you know, as a man, when it's time to be tender, you don't just kind of show up and half-ass it. You learn to be so fucking tender, your heart is blown open and you feel like the most tiny tendril of your child's being and like this just beautiful way of saying it and then when

when it's time to be firm like you don't just be firm you like you make it very clear that no one will fuck with you like no one like like you so it's it's really this idea of like pushing the the ends of the spectrum in those different directions. So in the version of the heart, fucking go there, right? Go there. Don't half-ass it. And when you go to the harder elements of life, again, same thing. If you're going to be a warrior, be a fucking warrior.

I love that. Yeah, that resonates big time. Yeah, I think about that too. You know, and also thinking about what you're talking about, you know, like having the freezer full of meat. And it's a funny thing because I remember when Rogan had the doomsday prepper on right around when lockdown started, you know, he was talking about how he, I forget the guy's name, but he was doing documentaries or writing a book on doomsday preppers almost as like to make fun of them,

you know, in a way. And then he started living, you know, at some of these different encampments. And he was like, well, actually like 80% of this is super valuable. It's, you know, maybe I don't need like a nuclear fallout fucking bunker, but a lot of this other stuff is just common sense. And every year throughout history,

people would prepare for a long winter or food shortages or poor crops, fill in the blank. There was some type of preparation that went in. And what they did is it alleviated stress. And as a provider and a protector of my family, the second you have kids, all that shit starts to come up really importantly. And it may not come up for us consciously, but it certainly comes up for us one way or another, whether we can recognize what it is or what it isn't. And that's something that's

been spoken about before amongst you know people who know you know uh john hackleman who was chuck liddell's coach and one of my coaches in mixed martial arts he said you know that the the the people who are out there that are causing violence and doing these things are the ones that are inherently weak you know like there's no black belt sitting at a bar that's going to go around picking fights with people because they've exercised that chip off their shoulder. Even if that's why they got into martial arts, once they've made it all the way to black belt, they know themselves. There's no fight left in them.

And if there is, then they can handle that in the appropriate place. They're not trying to find that, you know, on the streets. And, you know, I think about that, you know, as a protector, it, you know, it's the people who really don't feel safe and don't feel protected are the ones that are going to lash out, you know, and once you have that, that's something that you don't, there's no bandwidth in the back of my mind that says, am I safe right now? You know, and there's no bandwidth, thankfully, due to prepping. We have a pantry full of water and stored food, and I've got meat in the freezer and things like that. And I feel skilled enough to go on a hunt and be able to bring back an animal. All these things

that kind of cover those bases so that in my everyday waking consciousness, there's no question marks in the back of my mind saying like, oh shit, you know, what's going to happen if this happens? What's going to happen if this happens? And that's so freeing to just do a very small amount of that. You know, like go to Costco and get some grass-fed sausages. And it's like, oh, I can grab a couple more of these each trip. It's not like I'm spending thousands of dollars, but if I tack $30 onto my grocery bill each time I go and I start to accumulate some extra stuff, that goes a long way. And as it turns out, when we had the snowpocalypse, that shit mattered.

It really mattered having that. Everyone lost power. People lost water. We had eight people staying at our house on extra beds and we provided for everyone and we had an excess, you know, and that wasn't the experience of a lot of people here in Texas. You know, we're fortunate in that way, but prepping went a long way. And we had, I didn't, I started that maybe three months before this storm hit. So it was like, it's not like we had a long lead up to it,

but it really came in handy and the proof was made right there. Like, oh, okay, this is why we do these small little things that, you know, for a protector and a provider actually matter and alleviate a great deal of something that potentially would take up a lot of space, background noise in my mind. I mean, yeah, there's two huge pings that come up in me. The first one, I'll say a little on the short side, but I actually think there's kind of two things I'm hearing there. One is the basic safety and security, right?

And being able to let down your guard and know that you and your family is taken care of. And that's one. And then there's also, I think, sometimes it's tied to that and sometimes it's not, but it's also just this sense of self and this sense of acceptance amongst, say, a community of men. A buddy of mine's name is Rourke Denver, and he was commander of the Navy SEALs.

He was sort of in the movies for a while has a couple good books out there and he and i had a had a chat once just about how there sort of is this uh initiation or and it's different it shows up differently for for almost everybody but there's a commonality and like you know rourke would talk about how you know uh fitness dudes would come to him now and be like hey do this crazy challenge with me you know do this like seven day fucking upside down skiing hiking running fucking diving uh race with me and it'll be blast he's like you know like i just don't fucking care anymore you know like there's this sense of self-proof like so men in the military i would imagine fighters like yourself for me it was like very very long intense huge pack outs in the military, I would imagine fighters like yourself, for me, it was very, very long, intense, huge packouts in the mountains and things like this.

Basically knowing that you can push yourself to a place far beyond. And then just like a switch kind of goes off and you may still want to prove yourself and you may still go there. But there is sort of like a set point that I've found in men. It's like, okay, I have done X hard thing. I feel strong enough in my own identity that I can kind in man it's like okay I have done x hard thing um I feel strong enough in my own identity that I can kind of let that go so I I think that's that's one thing that that's happening here but what you're talking about like the actual safety and security of being a provider man I went through another fucking initiation where that was like so it it like it it's consumed

my life and I'm actually just getting to the other side of it so um i started the company everyman you know with some co-founders and we had legit sort of press success and in terms of starting a movement we got a lot of attention we sold all everything we did and it's still going right so everyman's still happening you can go check it out amazing good shit um and so here i was like fully expressed in like what i wanted to bring to the world i was scared i was like i don't want to get on stage i don't want to i'm scared to do this and i did it and it landed and it worked and i just gave it every single thing i had and we didn't uh i was immature in a business sense i was immature in a practical sense and didn't didn't, I was immature in a business sense. I was immature in a practical sense and didn't set up the right business model

in the early days. And so I put my family through fucking hell and we didn't have, we missed rent. We went through this just insanely hard time. We ended up moving into a 33 foot RV on a farm in Southern California. Not just because we wanted to be minimalist, because I couldn't fucking pay rent, man.

And so I was living this wildly sort of disparate life where I was living my dream and delivering my message and it was working and everything, but it wasn't paying back. And so I lived with three and a half to four years of just absolute desperation on that, on that front of being a provider. Right. And I just, I just, I was just like, I'm just going to fucking push this through. We just got to keep going. We just got to keep going. We just got to keep going. And, um, that strategy didn't ever actually work.

Um, you know, things are, things are different now. Things are different now. I'm out of that, thank God. But I feel like I had to learn that lesson the really fucking hard way. And there's a lot of privilege here, right? So it's not like there would have always been a place for us to sleep. We have loving family, we have places to go. So I don't mean to like come off too, but I see this as a very self-created reality, right? Like I did that. And so I, you know, have been in this process of growing up and maturing recently, which is very practically oriented. So when we're talking about the hunt and we're talking about like the security, like in modern day times, you got to think about that in terms of like, how do you make a living, right? It just is that now.

So here I am filling my freezer and stacking firewood, but the actual sort of hunting in practical terms today is setting the right revenue structure on my business and marketing in the right way and all that stuff. So anyway, I didn't want to leave that one hanging because I never went through that before, that sort of freak out financial place. And it happened literally as I was having little babies. It was fucking hell, man. Yeah, that resonates big time. That's one of the reasons I left the UFC. I was living with my then girlfriend at the time, now wife, Natasha. And we lived in my mother's detached garage for six years while I was a professional athlete, supposedly, and working two extra jobs, bouncing and bartending and personal training. And it's like, I just saw the writing on the wall, you know, and, um, wanting to have kids at that point was definitely a driver for it.

But, um, you know, the, the need to provide and the need to protect and the need to educate all the, all these things it's, as it arises, it's really important that we have tools from people that have been there. And I think that's what's so great about the fact that we can look out in the modern world and see there's a lot of things that are broken and need fixing. And I think your personal experience lends you a big hand in the work that you're doing. Talk about what you have going on now on a personal level and on a business level that you've moved on from every man?

Yeah. On a personal level, it was just like this, and it's all just sort of coming to fruition right now, but it's just this beautiful, we live on the coast of Maine and we're just choosing, it's a family choice, man. We found what seems to be, in our view, the best we could find in terms of a place to raise our family. And our values are nature. Our values are community and time together.

So that's really at the heart of it. And so I couldn't feel more fortunate and grateful, man. So what I do now, how I work with people, is I have a coaching practice and that's both uh leadership corporate sort of that end of the thing but more more often I work with you know tends to be dads uh with fairly meaningful or big substantial jobs and a a growing spiritual emotional personal, personal practice, right? That's sort of like the, that's the core of who I work with. And what I'm really excited about, I'm

really kind of starting to work in two specific ways. And one's a fatherhood sort of platform. And I'm doing these deep dive, you know, five or six month small group, sort of high, high intensive, high dollar men's groups just for dads. And there's a coach. I do one-on-one coaching and run these transformational like healing groups. It's just, it's just the best thing I've fucking done. Like I just,

I love it so much. I'm so, I'm so into it. And it's really working. And then the other area I'm focusing is, is more of this wilderness and meditative focus specifically. I think in the long run, if we talk in 10, 15, 20 years, I think probably all I will be doing at that point will be taking people in the middle of the wilderness and sitting on our butts and laying on our backs and opening up and connecting and really doing

this somatic. So I'm training in a lineage. My teacher's name is Reggie Ray and he was a student of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche in a Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhist lineage. Now that's, that's a huge, huge center point of my life. And you know, my expression of that in the world is, is to use nature as a, as a conduit there. You know, I think it's not only nature, like I do teach meditation in non-outdoor settings too,

but, you know, I'm alive for just, you know, who knows how much longer I might as well fucking party. Right? So party today is to go out in the wilderness and open up to the mystery and really, you know, do what happens. So yeah, those are my biggest passions. And I also, I'm about to launch a new podcast. It's not quite ready. I'm excited about that. I hosted the Everyman podcast for a couple

of years and that was really rewarding, but I'm about to launch a new one. And writing, I'm also a closeted writer. I have a handful of novels in my back pocket that I've not really ever shared and I'm working on some other pieces. And so honestly, it feels like I'm almost 40, and it's like, all right, finally, I'm just going to set down everybody else's agenda and just do exactly what I want. And I'm pretty excited it too. You know, we collaborate with a lot of other amazing people in Fit for Service. Aubrey and I, you know, obviously something Aubrey started, his mastermind group. And I'm one of the mainstay coaches with Eric Godsey and Caitlin Howe. And we've had Tim Corker now and some other fantastic people that are similar in nature. But I'd love to get you out for one of our events. You know, I think you could offer a lot.

I'd love to. I sat in a men's group. You know, I think, I think you could offer a lot and. I'd love to do that. I sat in a men's group with Tim for a while. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah, man. He's a great dude. Very randomly. Yeah. He's a good guy. That's awesome. Yeah. I would love to, man. I would love to do that. Beautiful brother. Well, where can people find you and when's your podcast launching? Dandoty.com D A N D O T Y.com Instagram. Whoever you are, DanDoty.com, D-A-N-D-O-T-Y.com, Instagram.

Whoever you are, Dan Doty on Instagram, that has the Dan Doty handle, I'm coming for you. But right now I'm Daniel Doty at Daniel Doty on Instagram. You had to go full Daniel on him. Yeah. And the podcast, probably late July or August. Actually, I'm not going to give any. I'm not going to'm not going to give any, uh, I'm not going to say yet. Cause I just don't know. Okay. I'm working on it. Good stuff, brother. Well, uh, that'll give us good reason to circle back. I'll start tuning into that when it launches. Um, it's been excellent having you on brother. And I appreciate

the work that you're doing in the world. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. Take care. Take care. you