Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #215 Justin Rezvani

Episode Date: August 18, 2021

Justin Rezvani is a kid genius. He lives on the leading edge in his life and the things we discussed in this ep are no different. His decentralized social network “Zion” launches TODAY(Aug 18)!!! Enjoy this conversation and please please please come join us! Connect with Justin:   Website: getzion.com  Instagram: @justinrezvani  Facebook: Justin Rezvani  Twitter: @justinrezvani  Show Notes:   JRE #1691 - Yeonmi Park  JP Sears Youtube Ice Age Farmer - "Brace for Impact" -Manufactured Supply Chain issues "The Madness of Crowds" - Douglas Murray Living 4D - Tribe: Building a Community of Support  Caroline Myss - Sacred Contracts Sponsors:   Higher Dose “Get high naturally!” Go over to their site… www.higherdose.com, check out what these mad scientists have cooked up and get their portable Infrared Sauna or PEMF Mat. Use code word “KKP75” to get $75 off your order. EightSleep Pod Pro Fully optimize your sleep with their wide range of programmable temps by going to www.eightsleep.com/KKP  and use code “KKP” for $150 off the pad or mattress. Upgraded Formulas from our boy Barton Scott!! Get your mineral levels figured out and head to www.upgradedformulas.com, punch in “KKP15” at checkout and get 15% off your order including the hair mineral test! The Cold Plunge Trade up from your inefficient ice chest to The Cold Plunge by heading to thecoldplunge.com/pages/kkp and use codeword “KKP” at checkout for $111 off!  Connect with Kyle:   Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys   Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back to the show everybody. Oh boy, big stretch. I'm getting ready. Yeah, I'm doing great right now. Sauna, ice bath, also have been... Let's talk a little bit about my day. I'm super pumped up because I'm recording ads. It's a Monday, the 16th of August.

This is releasing August 18th, Wednesday. And we have timed this perfectly with my brother, Justin Rezvani on purpose. Hopefully launch goes through as planned, but we're going to talk about potentially one of the most important things of our time, censorship, finance, many of the broken systems that you've heard me mentioning, and a solution. Not just a solution in the near future, but a solution that launches today. And it's called Zion. So let me give you a little brief bio on what we're going to talk about today. What is Zion? Zion is a decentralized social network built on Bitcoin designed to facilitate the free and open flow of content and payments between creative people and their audiences. Social media companies extract billions of dollars in revenue by serving as the middleman

between creators and their fans, followers and subscribers. Zion challenges their monopoly as intermediaries of online content, just as Bitcoin challenges banks' monopoly as financial intermediaries. By replacing digital intermediaries with transparent, open-source protocols, Zion sidesteps corporate profit motives and empowers every user with full sovereignty over their digital experience, absolute freedom of expression, and irrevocable custody over their personal information. On a decentralized social network that cannot collect or store user data, there are no hyper-targeted ads, no increasingly polarizing recommended content, and no threat of surveillance

or arbitrary censorship. The rules are enforced by technology, not technology companies. Communities on Zion are fully independent micro economies designed to unlock opportunities for people to create wealth. Zion was launched to make it easier for creative people to pursue what they love and share their passion with the world. I am beyond pumped for this. I mean, that's it in a nutshell. Justin Rosvani has become a very close friend and a dear brother over the last few years. I got him to move out. Well, I can't say I take all the credit for it, but I was one of the guys that got him to move out from Southern California here to Austin. Anytime I would go to LA, I would stay at his place in the Palisades and knock out five, 10 podcasts. I've even recorded shows from his house in the Palisades.

And we've become very close. And we talk about that on the podcast. We talk about really this beautiful gift that he has created for the world, co-created for the world. And he's brought on some amazing supporters. He's obviously, I'm in on this, I'm all in, but he brought our dear brother, JP Sears in to help really promote and get this thing going. And we dive into all the ins and outs of why this is so important, what it's doing, what it will do for the world. And I think we're seeing this thing, obviously it's in its infancy, but the potentials are insane. I mean, imagine combining YouTube with all social media platforms, with a wallet, with the ability to sell, with the ability to buy, with the ability to tip. Instead of a like button, I can send somebody a fraction of a penny as that's my like button. So I say, oh dude, this meme is awesome,

David Avocado Wolf. Here's a hundred Satoshis. And all these transactions take place peer-to-peer, end-to-end encrypted. I mean, actually, I'm giving away too much here. I'll let my boy, Justin Rezvani, really break this down on the podcast. But I'm so pumped because the day this episode releases is the day that this is available. GetZion.com. That's the brand new website. GetZion.com. So head over there before the show, during the show, after the show, whenever.

But make a point to head over there because we're seeing a full court press from not just big tech companies, but the government hand in hand. And it's no longer conspiracy theory. It is conspiracy fact, the way it's going down. And this affects all people. Rogan made a great point. He has a fantastic podcast that I'll link to in the show notes. Number 1691 with Yeonmi Park, a North Korean defector. Unfortunately, her story paints a picture of what the world could look like if we keep saying yes to socialist ideas, Marxist ideas, and we keep conforming and letting our freedoms go away in fear of terrorism or in fear of the boogeyman or in fear of drugs. Whatever the war on is, is really a war on our freedom. It's a war on our personal sovereignty. And we've seen this bait and switch over and over and over

again. And what she breaks down in that podcast is far more than just what life was like in North Korea. They dive into the nuanced conversation of what life is like in America right now. And it's hair-raising to understand that she sees a lot of parallels in how people are acting. I mean, she went to school at Columbia University in New York City, and it's just fucking ridiculous, to put it plainly. So please listen to that. Listen to this. Enjoy the podcast and support our sponsors because they make this show possible. And I want to keep doing this podcast because I absolutely love it. My podcast will live on Zion. That's another cool thing. You'll be able to listen to it there. You'll be able to watch the videos there. They will never be taken down. They cannot be taken down. Ian it there. You'll be able to watch the videos there.

They will never be taken down. They cannot be taken down. Ian, even if Rezvani and I had a falling out and he hated my guts, if I had an affair with his wife, he's not married and I wouldn't do that to him. But even if I did the worst of the worst to Justin, he could not take my content down. That's what's dope. This stuff will live there forever. YouTube cannot censor it. And we have, obviously, our podcast is going on YouTube. We'll see how long it remains up there. This is the answer to that. So definitely check out getzion.com and 100% support our sponsors. We're brought to you today by Higher Dose. Get high naturally. I like getting high.

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when it comes to your own health and your ability to combat stress, to shift naturally into a better state of being, to lower inflammation, to feel better, to think better, to burn fat, to recover from workouts. Many of you have heard me talk about Wim Hof. I've been able to breathe with him, thankfully. That was one of the coolest days of my life, getting to breathe with the master. And I've been into cold training for years now. I don't know, maybe, damn, 10 years ago is when I started. I think I was doing this at ASU, so a lot longer than that. But when I got introduced to WIM, I actually made it a practice. And I had a chest freezer that I had cocked and done a bunch of shit with.

And I'd empty the water out every so often. And it'd get real murky. And it's kind of nasty. And even at 33 degrees in that, the water's not moving. So, you know, you build this little bubble of not 33 degrees right at your skin and I could just stay in there as long as I wanted. But this cold plunge circulates the water. It has the best filtration system on the planet, uses ozone and a number of other things, a carbon filter, which you can change out on a monthly basis that keeps the water ultra clean. It is so easy to clean out. There's a drain on bottom. I turn this thing out outside of my garage, flip a little handle, and all of a sudden, this just pours down my driveway. I rinse the driveway. I fill it back up. I add a little food grade hydrogen peroxide. Implicitly blammo, I'm ready to go for another month straight in perfectly clean water. I get out of my barrel sauna straight into this thing. I'm oily.

There's some soot in the air, unfortunately, because I was adding essential oils to my sauna. That shows up and it gets filtered out. This thing continues to filter. I've had four dudes in that sauna sweating bullets. And instead of showering before we get in, we thing continues to filter. I've had, I've had like four dudes in that sauna sweating bullets. And instead of showering before we get in, we just jump right in, in the cold tubs filtration system is that good. Not only is the filtration system that good, this thing stays between 39 and 40 degrees around the clock. And I know, you know, Rogan just did his 33 degrees

and he did it for 20 minutes. There is a point of diminishing returns. You don't need to go that deep. To be perfectly honest, I think it's counterproductive. And a lot of people can't even get their hands in there. It's like, no, go to your chin, get your whole body in. If it's at 40 or 45 or 49 for that matter, you can set the temperature and whatever it is, get your whole body in there. Get your body accustomed to being cold, get your core temperature to drop and meet the minimum effective dose. You know, Tim Ferriss talked a lot about that in the four hour body. It's a very important metric. What is your minimum effective dose? So I'll do 20 minutes of sauna. Then I do a minute in the ice minute,

one minute and 11 seconds in the ice bath. Then I go back to the sauna for 15, which is around 220 degrees at that point. It's pretty gnarly. I got that bit from Laird Hamilton. And then I go back into the cold tub for two minutes and 22 seconds. My total time in two rounds is three minutes and 33 seconds. Why so little? Well, as it turns out, if I go in longer, I shiver and I don't necessarily feel any better for it. I actually feel tired. That might be a microdose of hyperthermia. I'm obviously not losing any feeling in my fingers or anything like that. Have I gone longer? Yeah, I've done 15 minute sessions. I've done 10 minute sessions and it's cool every now and then, but on a daily basis, especially because I stretch right after I get out of this, I'm doing Kelly Sturette shoulder stuff with the band. I don't want to be an iceberg when I get out. And I find such benefit in a daily

practice of this hot cold that, you know, I think there's nothing like it. And obviously we just take, if you're not going to afford the, the big barrel sauna, certainly check out, um, my folks over at higher dose.com, because that is, that is a game changer and it's a steal of a price. Cold plunge is going to be a bit more expensive, but you can get $111 off and you can make payments on this thing. And as I've told you before, there is no greater investment, no single investment you can get $111 off and you can make payments on this thing. And as I've told you before, there is no greater investment, no single investment you can make to your health that will have long-term benefits than this. I highly recommend you get a cold plunge. It looks gorgeous. It can be in your house or outside of your house. Nothing's going to be

better than it. And check it out, thecoldplunge.com slash pages slash KKP. We're going to link to that in the show notes. It's a long one, but use code word KKP at checkout for $111 off. The coldplunge.com slash pages slash KKP. And of course, just check all this stuff out in the show notes, as well as Get Zion, which will be there. And that is the main point of the podcast today, is to really drive home our own ability to take sovereignty back requires that we make small investments in ourself is to really drive home our own ability to take sovereignty back requires

that we make small investments in ourself and in technology and companies that are doing things correctly with our best interest in mind. I know Justin Rosvani's heart and I know what he put into this. And I know after you guys listen to this podcast, you will agree, this is the way forward.

I love y'all. I'm so pumped. I see a bright fucking future and we're all in it. Check it out. Please contact me. I'm on, I'm on. Get Zion right now at Kingsboo. So we will link to my QR code, which will allow you to find me there and message me so we can start having communication and back and forth. And it's just me. It's not the family one like we have on Instagram, but that one works too. Hit me up at living with the Kingsbury's on Instagram if you've got no other method, but please check out getsigned.com and I look forward to chatting with you there. I love y'all and let's go. Justin Rezvani.

Justin Rezvani, my brother. My brother. Welcome to the show. This has been a long, long, long time in the making. And you've had, you're giving birth to something that has also been a long, long, long time in the making. And as we have stated, face-to-face, within the app, to all our friends, essential in these times and perfectly timed. Indeed, brother.

And I have so much gratitude for you because the inception of this was on a car ride as we were picking up Bear and we started this dialogue of, you know, hey, I'm working on something and I think we should do it. And it just led to this snowball effect.

So I have a lot of gratitude for you and helping push me over the edge to say, get out of retirement, go build this. Yeah. A thousand percent, brother. So thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's, I mean, I want to take a deep dive into this, but we do usually have a format to the show. If there's a format to anything, the structure of the show is to dive a little bit deep into personal background. So talk about life growing up. Parents are not from here, correct? No, they're not. You have a similar trajectory. You're our brother, Sherveen. Yes, I do. I'm a son of an immigrant. So my parents, my mom came here when she was 13 years

old and my dad came here when he was 17 from Iran. So they kind of really escaped right before the revolution. I'm half Persian, half Assyrian. So my mom's side is Assyrian, my dad's side is Persian. And so I grew up in the epitome of an immigrant family. English was my second language. Didn't grow up with any level of wealth, just a very kind of normal average household. My dad worked like a dog.

He'd leave at 6 a.m. He'd come back at 8 p.m. I was raised by my grandparents. So I always had this ethic and my mom was a teller at a bank. So I always had this ethic of just working tremendously hard and nothing is just given to you. It was just something that was built in me from my culture, because there's something about being a son of an immigrant in America. And what that programs you to understand is that you're not like, in some ways, you have to work way harder to get ahead. And you don't take anything for granted. It's not like you wake up with the iPad and you're like,

oh, I want it now. You know, kind of how these- There's nothing. And that's not, you know, taking a stab at anyone else. I mean, that's me looking at my own son thinking like, oh, let know, you have to be a sovereign being. There's nothing that's going to be handed to you and you have to work harder than the person next to you in order to get ahead. That's just the reality. It's like, you have to work till midnight. Like I was up at the keys to one 30 in the morning last night, fixing something.

So it's just that type of work ethic was just built in me since I was a child. I started my first company when I was 13 years old, I was painting curbs in my neighborhood, painting the numbers on the side of curbs. And that's how I started. I went up to the door, I'd knock on the door like, hey, I'll paint your curb for $20. Would you be interested? And I put their numbers on the side and then paint their trash can. So I was like something that I did very young as a child. That's dope, brother. Yeah. Well, let's talk about your first four eight in the business world. And obviously all that hard work can lead to the detriments from other things. So unpack that. Unpack your first stab or your big stab in the app game and what happened with your health and how you've pivoted from there. Sure. So when I was in 2013, I was 24 years old and I was looking at the world of advertising and I'd work at this job that was

selling banner ads on websites. So click these small little mobile banners and Instagram the year before Instagram had got bought by Facebook for a billion dollars. And I was lucky to have some friends that were influencers. So they were on some TV shows and they had like 50,000 followers on social media at the time. And so we said, hey, would you be interested in posting content for a brand? And now this becomes very, this is a very popular thing now, but in 2013, it was a bit of a new process. So I said, let me build the first app that connected a brand to an influencer. So if you go to the history of the App Store and the Apple App Store, the first app that was created

that connected a brand to an influencer was this app called Reach. We were the owners of Reach. If you look at the US Patent Office and the first patent written for mobile influencer marketing, funny enough, my name will be at the top of that patent. And so we built the first app that connected those two people. And we were lucky because we were early. It allowed for us to be the first way people could buy ads on Instagram at scale. So if you wanted to drive 10 million impressions to create your first Instagram channel, Instagram didn't have ads until 2015. So for two years, we were kind of the only way you could buy ads on Instagram at scale with influencers. I was lucky enough to grow that business in 2016, sold the company, and then stayed on the board all the way through 2018.

And then 2018 is when the whole journey really starts. It's like, you know, you sell a business. I was 27 when I sold the business. It was very, like, young for me. I didn't really know much. I was very overweight. I was 240 pounds when I was running the business. It was very young for me. I didn't really know much. I was very overweight. I was 240 pounds when I was running the company. And so I said, I'm drinking heavily.

I'm doing drugs. I need to just take a break. I need to take a break from this. So in my head, I said, let me try the hardest endurance race possible. So let me train for an Ironman. So end of 2018, the beginning of 2019, I went all in an Ironman training. So over that next year, I lost 70 pounds. So I went from 240 pounds, a little bit over 30% body fat down to eight and 69 pounds was when I did my Ironman about two years ago, August, 2019. So I did

Mont-Tremblant was my first full distance Ironman. I did a couple halves during that year. And so I was in the best shape of my life. I was like, you know, really just feeling the best. And then I, two months later, Aaron, it's funny, Aaron and I, we go to Hawaii for about a month. It was kind of celebrating, like just, it was a great year, the end of 2019. The day I get back, I'm sitting in a dentist chair and I have a seizure. And so I had this thing called like a hemorrhagic stroke and it caused the seizure. And so I drive myself to the ER. They put me in a brain scan and they said, you have a cavernous malformation of your right temporal lobe. So it's a cavernoma essentially. It's a series of a growth of blood vessels that kind of expanded into a mass. Some people would call it a malignant tumor, but this mass exploded and it created blood and it created blood all over my brain. And so I was in the ICU for three days. They had to do an angiogram to make sure that it wasn't an AVN.

Stayed there for three days. And then six weeks later, because I was so prone to having another hemorrhagic stroke and another bleed, I had brain surgery on January 9th, 2020 to cut that sucker out. And so that was my beginning of 2020. I know we had, you know, coronavirus situation started a few months later, two months later, in fact, but my start of 2020 was a brain surgery. 2020 was gnarly no matter where you were.

2020 was gnarly. It's like I had a bit of a pregame for 2020 because I was like, when you're going, it's funny when you prepare for brain surgery, there's a whole other thing that you have to prepare, right? Because it's one of those things that, yes, the doctors say like, don't worry, the right temporal lobe, there's nothing that happens there. And then you think to yourself, you're like, come on. Like really? There's just nothing that you know happens there. But there's a lot of spiritual elements also for my experience because when I had my seizure in the dentist chair, I left, I passed out.

I kind of left my body. The light was turned on. I don't know if you know dentist lights, but the dentist lights turn on and then I absorb into the light. And I'm following a version of myself. I don't know what this version of myself is, but it's a happier version of whoever I was.

And what I believe happened in that moment spiritually is I switched places with that individual and then rewoke up back in this body. And so whatever happened in that moment created a big inspiration for what I think we're going to unpack today around purpose and why I think something like what we're working on together, in fact, will be the impact of the world. Fuck yeah, brother. That teed up perfectly. Yeah, there's never been a more important time for us to reclaim our sovereignty.

And it's been thought in my mind, like to truly understand something, one must experience its opposite. They talk about that in conversations with God. And if the nature of the game is to experience, to know thyself, which I continue to brush up with in many of the teachings,

whether it's meditation, plant medicine, or spiritual texts, this seems to be a thing, right? To give an example, if I make the mantra, I am strong, life might give me some way to show me how strong I am. Right. And that is going to be expressed through a catalyst or a stressor or something that, you know, it's like if you had the divine coach that miraculously added weight to your squat bar mid set and you're like, yeah,

you know, you're like, oh shit, there's more weight on the bar. Can I do this? Yes, I can do this. And if we are still in the individuation process and we are still looking to really find out what true freedom looks like, what true sovereignty looks like, it is quite likely that a strong opponent of that would show up and help us experience what freedom and sovereignty are not. And no matter where you stand politically, undeniably, we seem to have found that opponent. We seem to have found censorship at its peak all throughout the history of the United States of America, the short history of the United States of America, as well as globally with the censorship that's happening right now, not just on social media platforms, but from big government. And our good buddy,

JP Sears, who's obviously a part of what we're about to talk about, a very big part of his last two videos, which I'll link to in the show notes, really detail this in a funny, easy to digest way, right? Because it's important. When you start rabbit holing stuff like this, and I've talked a little bit about this solo cast that I want to do on Light and Dark. I've gone down the rabbit hole of the darkness and it's not fucking fun. It's not fun to realize these things

and see how these dots start to connect. And that looks like there was a plan for globalism, a new world order, the great reset, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's all saying the same shit. But more or less top-down control from a centralized government, which starts with loss of freedom of speech, which starts with, we're going to help Facebook target misinformation, which has come straight from the powers that be in this country on video. You know, so, you know, as JP jokes,

it appears that they're playing poker with their cards face up. They're literally showing us this. They're not trying to do it sneakily, or we've known people who've been able to look at our phones for fucking 10 years, right? But what they determined to be misinformation is kind of the crux of the argument. Sure.

Right? The dirty dozen list that they came out with, with Dr. Joe Mercola, a guy I've been following for over 10 years, who I first learned about the dangers of fluoride, vaccines, you name it. And look, if you want fluoridated water, go for it. If you want to vaccinate your children or yourself,

or you think you need a flu shot, that's totally fine too. too. Where that crosses the line is when we mandate how someone else should live. And we try to fill in all these gaps about, you know, grandma who has cancer that can't do it herself, you know, and like, she's got one foot out the door, buddy. You know, I want to protect in the best way that I know how. And. And I believe health is an inside job. And I could rabbit hole all those different conversations around health, big tech, the government, et cetera. But what you've been working on and had in the works for some time is the answer in many ways to what seems to be an impending tidal wave of censorship that's about to happen. So let's unpack into, into everything that's gone behind this.

And it's much more than a communication tool. So, I mean, literally like let's, let's just open up the can of worms and dive deep brother, because this thing is solving many mysteries from finance to personal sovereignty to the ability to stand on our own two legs and communicate to one another like we are right now without anyone interfering with that. Yeah, it's pretty amazing what we actually are doing

on a daily basis with each other. And I thought a really good primer, and I got to give some credit because this was a brainstorm between a friend of mine, Robert Breedlove, and myself yesterday. And I thought it'd be a really good primer, particularly for your show. And this will be the beginning of our discussion around what this actually is.

So you know this very well in relation to psychedelics. So psychedelics, in fact, disrupt what we understand as the default mode network. And this is something that's pretty ubiquitous is that it really is this etching of our neurophysiology of like, this is how we do everything. That's what the default mode network primes. It says, you follow a path and you do it this way. But when you do psychedelics, it kind of opens a whole other world that you didn't really understand, right?

In Michael Pollan's book, he kind of gives this analogy of like the snow covered mountain, and then that we're just following these same ski paths that everyone else is following. And so when you take a psychedelic, it's like a kind of a new snowfall happens. And the path that you traditionally know is not really there. You have a completely new path. And it's really like you're not following into

your repetitive patterns. And I think at this collective level of humanity, the default mode network is really externalized in the world as what I like to call as institution and then governments. And we construct our behaviors around these ideas of a default mode network. And then if you follow that psychedelic dose, you can change your idea. My opinion is that what we may need to consider is that Bitcoin is the psychedelic of money. And it's so disruptive to our social construct of understanding money

along with every downstream institution from that. So both Bitcoin and psychedelics are disruptive to the default mode network that we understand as humans. And that's both at the individual and the institutional level. So we have to begin the conversation and just saying, let's disrupt everything we understand about a protocol and about money. And that's how we begin the conversation. Because this thing didn't start from me just saying, okay, I'm going to go build another app the same exact way.

And I'm just going to call it a censorship resistant free network, just calling it by a different name. We had to start completely from scratch, rethinking the entire system and breaking the idea of the default mode network that we have as a society, aka Bitcoin. Fuck yeah, brother. So that's the catalyst. I think we got to begin the conversation and none of this is possible without Bitcoin. So the beginning of the conversation is really around how do you build a censorship-resistant technology stack, right? So if we understand how traditional tech is built, it's built in a way that you have your concept of your application.

The next layer is you build a database, right? A traditional database that is sitting on any kind of traditional system of your code. Then you build the application layer on top of the database. But it always starts with the database. And then the final piece that you might add to the top is the monetization vehicle of how you create the monetary vehicle of that application. So stack goes from idea, database, application, money. In order to build in Web 3.0 and the new ways,

we had to completely reverse that stack. We had to start with money. And the concept of building on top of money is not possible in the traditional web sense because money is an afterthought. It's not necessarily protocol. But if you understand Bitcoin, and I'm not talking about Bitcoin as the asset, I'm talking Bitcoin as the monetary network, the decentralized concept that millions of machines around the world are creating a cryptographic hash to move money effectively from individuals on a protocol layer with no centralized service. If you start with that, then you can build the application layer and then you can eliminate the database completely. And then you effectively have built a decentralized network and more particularly a decentralized communication network. And I think

that's one of the really important things is like social and communication is a form of currency in itself. The ability to talk to another individual is a function of currency. And then additionally layering that with money, you've created the future of what social looks like. And I think what we've really spent the last year doing is trying to find what is the way this thing should be done in the future. And I think that's what we've been able to put together.

And that's what we're working on every day together. Absolutely, brother. Well, let's talk about some of the, I mean, you've got the notes here. So if you want to, you take this wherever you think we should go and then I'll chime in with questions and all that. I don't even need to steer the ship.

My hands are off it. So I think, where do we start? I think what would be a good catalyst to start? Well, I think when it comes to money, understanding what the potentials of the decentralized market looks like versus what we're currently up against. Many people, well, not many people,

but some of you may know, especially if you follow Ice Age Farmer, I'll link to one of his videos in the show notes. He's one of my favorite guys on YouTube currently while he's still allowed on there. He did a great video on manufactured supply chain issues. And in that video, he talked about inflation and our ability to print money. the value of a dollar looked like compared, you know, previous to the Federal Reserve Bank and up until now, right? So I think it was 5 cents. Our dollar was worth 5 cents, a nickel compared to what it was when the dollar was first around or pre-Federal Reserve era. And that could be off by a little bit, but not by much. That chart would change drastically based

on the trillions of dollars that were printed since then. Of course. In response. I think 4 trillion. 26% of the whole money supply was printed in the last 12 months. Right. So the level of inflation that we are to, somebody said like, oh, inflation's up 5.6%.

No, it's not. I was like, who the fuck came up with that number? 13% last month. Yeah. I was like, did you hear that from the government? Is that what they want you to think? Right. that number. 13% last month. Yeah. I was like, did you hear that from the government? Is that what they want you to think? Right? Like we, our inflation has never seen a jump this high, this fast in recorded his, since the, since the founding of the country and to put, there's no

way to really put that in perspective. Um, what it ends up being is chicken prices may double initially and then triple and then quadruple. What it means is, I mean, we already see this with the cost of lumber, steel, all sorts of things. It's like, oh, I don't need to build my house. Big fucking deal. No, no, no. This affects everyone, right? Gas prices have skyrocketed.

They're almost $3 a gallon here in Texas, in big oil country. When I first moved here, they were $1.70 a gallon. They're almost at $3 right now for the cheap stuff. It literally bleeds into all systems. Well, that's not necessarily a problem if you scale up. But as far as I've been told, I don't know many people working salary jobs that are now getting 10X or 20X what they were getting paid before. So whose money is affected? middle class lower middle class upper middle class upper upper lower lower everyone is affected negatively by this and the pivot point is finding something that's unprintable it's finding a technology or a form of currency

that is a finite resource right even if it's not necessarily in existence, the gold standard itself isn't a finite resource. You can fucking mine more gold. And obviously opinions determine what that gold is worth. But the point is there can always be more of that. De Beers controls 97% of the diamond supply and most of it's in vaults underneath the ground, right? They determine the supply, the demand,

and the cost of what a diamond is worth because they have all the mines. So gold standard isn't necessarily the best standard. It's not necessarily the gold standard to use that in a figurative sense. A finite resource is. So let's talk cryptocurrency in general for a second and then talk about why you built this

on the back of Bitcoin. So I think understanding Bitcoin in particular is, you know, Bitcoin was created by a pseudonymous founder named Satoshi Nakamoto. And he had very, he or she or the group had a very core ethos of saying, we don't want to have control of what this is. It was a very particular position

to make this a peer-to-peer electronic cash system. There was a finite amount of Bitcoins that will ever be created. It's 21 million. We know the exact number and when the last one will be mined through the blockchain. So it was set to be a finite resource. There can't be any more printed. There can't be any more created. So that gave the concept of this fungibility aspect to allow someone to trade it

with another individual, but it's the same Bitcoin. It's the same one. We can actually go back and find out the Bitcoin that I give to you where it actually originally came from if you go back far enough in the ledger. That allows to create a deflationary currency, the opposite of what we're dealing with right now, which is inflation. And the concept when we see the government QE or quantitative easing, what they're actually doing is printing money. And they believe that if you print more money, it actually increases the value of the stock market, which it has been doing. But inherently that hurts people. It doesn't work. When you print more money and throw money in the

system, it hurts people. So Satoshi knew this. They knew that this was going to be a problem eventually. And it came out from the 2008 crisis. And so why did we decide to take a position and build the N2N2 protocol on top Bitcoin, and more particularly on top of Lightning. Number one, no one controls Bitcoin. There's not a single person that says, I control Bitcoin, where if you look at most of the other cryptocurrencies, there are some very clear people that control how it works.

The second piece is that it is truly a decentralized network. So we are actually piggybacking off the benefit of the most ubiquitous decentralized network ever created, which is the Bitcoin protocol, the Bitcoin core protocol, and the ethoses around Bitcoin. We are essentially building what Bitcoin is. Number one, Bitcoin as a concept is censorship resistant. That's what it was built to do. It was built to not allow people to go into a centralized government and be able to just take it away.

It has an element of being decentralized. It's also an element of pure digital sovereignty. If you own your keys, if you hold your keys and you hold it personally, there's no one that can come and decide and say, you know what, these are mine now. They can't steal them off the internet. These keys are probably, you've seen what your keys look like on your device. If someone were to access your messages, they need to have that long cryptographic code.

Those are your private keys. No one has access to your private keys. It's a level of privacy and security that we've never seen before. And this is the level of cryptography that Bitcoin allows for. So the natural transition was, if we can send money peer-to-peer, can we send data on top of that same file? That was the theory that we put out a year ago and said, if we can move a message between an individual through these rails that are created on the Bitcoin Lightning Network, can we also move data with a media token?

Can we innovate a new way to move data? And the answer is yes. And if you can move data in a peer-to-peer way, decentralized, you've built the future of what is social media. Fuck yeah, bro. So I think going into the idea of this also being very open, global, and inclusive is also very important. So the traditional tech stacks, again, have been built in a way that they are private companies that have rules based upon advertising.

And I'd argue that a lot of this always comes back to the problem of money because the facts are that some of these dissenting arguments, particularly around vaccines and all the things that I think are really important topics, there is a spectrum that advertisers

don't want to be associated next to those types of messages. So Unilever or any of these other brands call Facebook and say, hey man, we're not interested in this type of content being on your platform and we don't want to spend money on ads. So what a byproduct of that is, is effectively censorship and deplatforming. But what we have failed to forget is that the impact that Facebook and Twitter is like, they own the public discourse. You can't exist on the internet now without being related to Facebook.

They're so large and so impactful for the messaging being distributed that if you get banned from these situations, like the president, the former president of the United States, you basically disappear in some ways off the face of the earth. That becomes a utility. It's effectively a public utility now. It's not just a private company. And I think that's something we have to understand and lean into is that these companies have gone so big that we have to give power back to the people. So that's why we've decided to take a position of we're going to create an open source utility. We're not a platform. We have no centralized element to what we do. Every individual person has full custody of their own node and their own social media account. You are not just an account on a database inside of Facebook. When I gave you that key to come into

N2N2 for the first time, that is spinning up your own personal server that's sitting on a virtual machine somewhere. And that you, with your private keys, are the only person on the globe that has access to the information that you send through that, through the Bitcoin that you send to that, to the access of the content that you see through that. Not a single person in the world

can ever see access to that. And that's just the virtual machine. Eventually, these devices will be sitting in your home. And the only way that someone will turn you off on the face of the internet is if they rip that out of your wall. And that's very unlikely. So I think that's what we're going to as a future is that you're not aligned in a database. You're your own sovereign social media platform. I love that. And obviously, there's a big focus on social media here. One of the things that the current administration flat out saying this. Obviously, people understand from Edward Snowden that they've had the ability to look through our

cameras, to take over our phones, to look through them at any given time. So that's not new news, but to openly state, hey, this is what we're going to do, that's different. That's a whole new level to the game. And one of the ways that I'm confident that the masses here understand what's at stake is because of the fact that we've seen WhatsApp prior to Facebook buying them blow up, Signal has blown up. We've seen so many of these companies that are end-to-end encrypted really take a stronghold and you can see it in their downloads, right? But there's an issue with these. Unpack that issue and how you guys have, well, I know you've already covered it,

but link back to why that's not an issue with IntuIntu. So I think the concept of centralization versus decentralization has been a topic in history forever. And so let's compare what every single application that's currently working really is doing compared to what I think the future of the world looks like. So the apps like Signal, the apps like Telegram, WhatsApp in particular, the way they're built is that they're a centralized database system that encrypts the data end to end. So when you send a message, supposedly, because it's not open source, you can't review the code to actually understand what's going on, which is also a little difference we'll talk about, is that when I send a message on WhatsApp, it goes to Facebook's server and it's encrypted on their server and then sends it back to your device.

There's still a centralized element holding that data, holding that message that your phone sent that message because it's Kyle's line in a database sent to Justin's line in a database. It's just databases sending messages at this massive scale. That's the centralized approach and it works. It works in many ways. It's actually very smooth. What we believe is that history shows that a decentralized network is actually inevitable. If we think about the natural elements of the mycelium network underneath the ground, how is nature's intelligence decentralized? Why would we not build the digital version of that? Why not would we take nature's intelligence and build it into a protocol? And so what we've decided to do is

every user is a node on the network and they have full custody of that node. So let's talk about how messaging would work in the decentralized world and particularly around N2N2. And this is, I think, the brilliance of what is Bitcoin. So we work on the Lightning Network. Every single person that

joins N2N2 actually has their own Lightning node. It's not a N2N2 node specifically. It is a Lightning node that has the N2N2 relay attached to it. Think of that as like a very customized piece of software. And what happens in Lightning is that two people can communicate through a thing called a channel. It's a payment channel, in fact. So what we do as a protocol is we help people create channels with each other. So when I send a message to you, Kyle, inside of the application, what's actually happening is that we have a channel together.

And when I send you a message, I say, hey, Kyle, good morning, how are you doing? We take the message and we wrap it into a payment, into the memo of a payment. And when I send you this message, it takes three Satoshis, and Satoshi is the micro of a Bitcoin, and it sends it to you.

When your node and relay receives that message, it unpacks the memo, takes out the thing that I actually sent to you, good morning Kyle, puts it onto your screen, sends me back the three Satoshis, making it effectively a zero-based transaction. And we've sent an encrypted message peer-to-peer through the Bitcoin Lightning Network. That's the future, in our opinion, of communication. It's that it's not on a centralized device. It's sent through the rails of this money network

that is Bitcoin, wrapped up in the pipes that are Bitcoin and sending messages across the internet. And the only way someone would be able to see that message that I'm sending you is that they would have to have your encrypted private keys. And I think that's the future of communication, is not putting the power in these centralized authorities, but giving power back to people,

right? Giving power back to these individuals. The things that are challenging in that is that these things aren't free, right? Like to have a lightning node, there is a cost on a monthly basis, unless you're fully self-hosting in your house. So we have to make efforts of sovereignty. That's the thing that's a little bit different in this world is that free is the most expensive business model. The reason Facebook and Instagram are free as a product is because you as a user of the product, not the application.

Yeah, Google started there. One of my favorite documentaries that Joe Mercola turned me onto on Paul Cech's podcast is The Creepy Line, which I think is on Amazon Prime. Funny how these guys kind of shit on each other. But The Creepy Line is all about Google. And when Google started, it was awesome. It wasn't curating information. It wasn't sending you results based on what they think you should see. Of course. And over time, they needed money. So they were mining data from you to see

what you liked, what you wanted. And then based on people that were paying them money to advertise, they would send you these wonderful ads that you actually gave a shit about. There was intelligent advertising. No big deal at first until censorship comes in. So nothing is free. When you think of the free service of Google, when you think of the free service of Facebook, nothing is free. When you think of the free service of Google, when you think of the free service of Facebook, nothing is free. And now we're fully recognizing what those actually cost. Yep. And I think when we think about the future,

and I think it's really important to think about what is the concept of the future of social media? And there's, to me, three tenets that we all have to think about collectively of like the future of social will revolve around three things. Number one, it will be built on money. It won't be, money will not be an afterthought. It will be built on top of money as a protocol. The next thing that's very important about the future of social media is that it is peer-based governance, not platform-based governance that we understand

as in Mark Zuckerberg has control and or the people that are curating Facebook have control over what is said. It should be based upon the people that are on the system, the peers that build the network. And then the final piece is that it's open source, permissionless, and decentralized. And so the ability is that the community has full access to customizing in the way they want to.

It's permissionless is that if they want to change some things, it's an open source protocol that anyone's allowed to go add to and change. And it's permissionless on top of that. And the final piece is it's decentralized. And the elements of everything around it is decentralized. And so to me, it was like a natural transition

to use Bitcoin as the core of all this because there are no central choke points, right? We saw this in China. China bans Bitcoin in some way. 50% of the miners move out of China and people are like, oh, China controls all of Bitcoin. Not a single thing changed with the protocol when all these miners get moved out. And actually they came to Texas. I was so happy that Texas will be the Bitcoin mining capital of the world. And so that's an amazing thing that we're going to be using the hash rates and the energy here in Texas to move that information. But that's the impact is that it had to have built in a way that you don't have control. And I think the next element of thinking about social is that the platform shouldn't have the ability to censor. So one thing that's important about what we're doing

is that we don't have the ability to turn somebody off. We can't. We can't turn off a node on the network, particularly if you're self-hosting. If you have your server in your house and you attach an open source relay inside of your house, other than someone coming to your home and ripping it out of the wall, we can't do anything about what you say. We can't control that. And that's the beauty of

building an open source protocol. We cannot censor. Even if we wanted to, we couldn't censor. I think there's a beauty in that. It's like the ability to and making a decision about or not. And this is the difference between a platform and a utility. We're not a platform. We're a utility. We're helping people build their own versions of social. And it's fundamentally a completely different way to think about a business model, about control, about data, and really giving power back to the people. I love it, brother. Let's unpack what a utility is because when you first started talking about this, I was so singularly focused around the ability to communicate, social media, things of that

nature that I had some questions arise like, hey, can we put podcasts on it? How's that going to look? Can we put podcasts on it? How's that going to look? Can we post, will it allow us to post videos like we do on Instagram or even long form videos like YouTube, right? Because YouTube is owned by Google and has been at the forefront of this. Yep. You know, I mean, and they're not just censoring the Joe Mercolos, the Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, the Dr. Rashid Batars, all medical doctors, by the way, they're censoring the think tank at Stanford, all medical doctors. They're censoring some of the most important people on the planet that have spoken out against the COVID-19 protocols, even pre-vaccine. Just how effective lockdowns are, social distancing, masks, all parts of the conversation.

Anybody that went against the narrative of the World Health Organization or the CDC got shut down. Videos actually removed from YouTube. So let's expand on that utility because I think this is important to know that this is a single place we can go and access all things. Yeah. Like combining social media with YouTube, with text message and money all things. It'd be like combining social media with YouTube with text message and money. And I think that's the interesting thing about what's unfolded with all this is that,

again, my intention at the beginning of this process, when I started saying, hey, we should think about building something, I had no concept that this was going to turn into the impact of what this was going to be in terms of how the breadth of the application was. Because when you build on money, everything changes. That's the thing about this whole thing what's unpacked. So the product itself, because you're built on a lightning node, and a lightning node is essentially some sort of a digital wallet that allows you to transfer value peer-to-peer between other individuals through the lightning network. It's instantaneous. It's different than Bitcoin Core because we're not actually writing to the Bitcoin blockchain as like a ledger. It's more of a private ledger system because if you're going to buy a banana, you're not going to buy it through an actual Bitcoin transaction and let everyone in

the world know it says Kyle bought a banana. That's unrealistic. But you will do it within the Lightning layer. So the application has three core components. Number one has a wallet. This is a Lightning wallet. This allows you to actually make Lightning payments across the entire Lightning network. So if you saw the data around El Salvador accepting Bitcoin as legal tender,

they're not necessarily accepting Bitcoin mainnet. They're accepting Lightning because in order to transact on this thing, you can't be making these large writing to the blockchain transaction. It has to be done on Lightning. So effectively, our wallet that's built into your full custodial node that you have full control over can now make Lightning payments to anyone around the world. The second product is chat. And we discussed that. That's an individual one-to-one encrypted messaging system between you and anyone that you like, as long as you have their pub key, right? So again, it's a private network. It's not something that's open that

you can go search a directory at Kingsboo on Instagram and find it. Then the last piece is that communities. And this is where creators in particular, I think are going to flourish and thrive is that we had the ability for a creator to develop their own community and insert many things into this community. Number one, we use RSS for podcasts. And this is something that we've innovated with a gentleman by the name of Adam Curry

and the Podcast Index. Adam Curry is like the founder of podcasting. So he invented this kind Adam Curry and the Podcast Index. Adam Curry is like the founder of podcasting. So he invented this kind of thing called the Podcast Index. And what you do is you put your lightning pub key in, which we've already assigned to you, into the RSS feed of your podcast. You simply hit send. And now if you put your RSS feed into it, when you create a community, your podcast automatically populates with every episode that you ever had inside the application. So RSS is the most ubiquitous, available, open source protocol invented on the internet for a very long time.

The next piece is photos. So we do allow for photos to be posted and memes and things like that within the infrastructure of the application. And the UI is very similar to Instagram. And the final piece you asked about video, and video is coming out on Wednesday, which we're so excited about. And video, we actually are using decentralized hosting partners. So the ability that you can take an unlisted link

from an application like Rumble, right? So Rumble is a decentralized video hosting. You simply paste that unlisted link when you hit plus, and now long form video is available in your private node for people to view. People can boost that video. But that's the thing that makes these elements really interesting is that anyone becomes a contributor of the social economy because there's boosting in the application, right? So boosting gives you the ability to actually peer-to-peer send Bitcoin to another individual without anyone in the middle because you have those payment

channels that are created. Individual chat also allows you to actually send Bitcoin peer-to-peer because it's a non-custodial service. What's really important is that N2N2 is not a money transfer service. We have nothing to do. In fact, we're just a relay layer. When you're sending funds from another individual in these small micro transactions, it's all peer-to-peer. We have nothing.

We have no middleman. There's nothing. Where it's very different, like the companies like PayPal and Venmo, because what you're doing is that you're just changing a number on a ledger and PayPal is deciding where the money actually goes. And Venmo is deciding where the money goes, where building in a decentralized network,

you decide where it goes because you have full control of your funds. You have full custody of your funds. And I think the impacts of what this is, which is chat, creator communities, and a wallet is where we think the future of social media is going to go in a really interesting way because it allows for digital sovereignty. Fuck yeah, brother. We're getting into some of the nitty gritty of this thing.

I love it, brother. So where do you think we go from here in terms of how we describe the application or what would be most helpful? Well, I mean, you touched on it briefly about the ability to send money to others. I think one of the things that's cool here is that you can actually, you know, people have found pros and cons around likes and dislikes, things like that. Facebook took it off. You can't see if somebody liked your message and whatnot or on Instagram anymore. It's kind of like this, hey, everybody gets a blue ribbon mentality.

YouTube still had it. The White House is talking about taking it down because of how many thumbs down videos they've received. And conversely, you can see how many thumbs up JP Sears gets. But that's all just a way of saying like, hey, thank you. This was awesome. One of the things that I love about N2N2 is the fact that if somebody posts a dope meme that inspires me or gets me going or is purely comical about the ridiculous nature of what's happening in our government right now, I can actually send money for that. And it doesn't have to be, it can be a lot or a little, right? Like it doesn't, it doesn't have to be like, you know, oh shit, how do I break a dollar up? Like it's already broken down, well broken down. And I can

say, fuck yeah, thank you for that. If I'm listening to a podcast, you know, let's talk about some of these things, like how I can share within the app from the place that I left off an awesome line from Paul Cech or somebody else that I really appreciated. Yeah. And I think that's the impact of what we're seeing in the future for the creator economy at large, right? So I think what we've seen in the past is that direct support platforms are getting a lot of interesting buzz, right? So what I consider a direct support platform is the idea of Patreon or the idea of an OnlyFans. But if you understand how those systems work, there's like five to six to

almost 10 layers between you and your audience when you go to a direct support platform. So let's give an example. Patreon. You have Patreon. You have the hosting site that is Patreon. Then if you pay with a credit card, you have the credit card itself. Then you have the hosting site that is Patreon. Then if you pay with a credit card, you have the credit card itself. Then you have the credit card processor. Then you have the credit card processor's hosting site. Then you have the bank. And then you finally have you.

So there's this, all these layers that you have to go in between. By the way, in talking about cancel culture, if any one of those layers in the chain decides to say no more, you lose everything. You lose every company. You can be turned off immediately and you lose all the value. Where in a peer-to-peer system, the layers are just you and Bitcoin. It's you and Bitcoin. And as a creator, we think that's the future of the creator economy is that you can

post a podcast inside of N2N2 and people can send you Bitcoin for listening to this. And I hope that this podcast in particular will be on N2N2 and we're going to be listening to it and we can boost and a particular time in space can boost that message and say, hell yeah, that was a really good insight. You can also decide to stream sats. And what I mean by streaming sats is that a person can decide that I want to listen to this podcast and I want to contribute 100 Satoshis a minute in listening to a podcast. And break down 100 Satoshis for people that aren't familiar with it. So in the original Bitcoin protocol, Satoshi Nakamoto knew that a Bitcoin would be worth a lot of money. And

some of our thoughts are that one Bitcoin will arguably be worth a million dollars one day. So he said 100 million Satoshis are one Bitcoin. So when you're sending a hundred Satoshis, it's a fraction of a cent right now. One Satoshi is 0.00035 cents with the current state of the Bitcoin pricing. But you're sending and streaming those sats. Eventually, maybe at the end of a podcast, maybe at the end of a 100-minute podcast, you've contributed $2 in real money to your favorite creator. In my opinion, if I was listening to someone that I loved and I knew that 100% of those proceeds was going to that creator, then there would be an incredible impact of me doing that and streaming those Satoshis. Or if I knew that there was something really impactful said,

and I send a hundred sats in that moment, that creates an impact for that creator. I would feel really good about that system. I would feel really good about that system. So a big part of what we're trying to do is we want to empower creators to take back control. Because right now in social media, you don't own your audience. They do, right? So the comparison I like to make of traditional social is that 100% of creators have built a mansion in someone else's backyard without a rental agreement. And our position is that we want to help creators build mansions on their own sovereign land. And that sovereignty is Bitcoin.

Fuck yeah. That made me think of like the 99-year leases you can get in Hawaii. But plus some type of clause where they can say, and we can just take it back from you anytime we fucking want, no matter how big you built it. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's what people are up against. We just did Dr. Kirk Parsley on who is a former Navy SEAL and a medical

doctor and a medical doctor for the Navy SEALs still practices medicine. Good friend of mine, speaker at paleo effects, friends with Michelle and Keith Norris, who is deplatformed or suspended indefinitely from Twitter. And all he was doing was posting direct links from the CDC that were counter indicated to the protocols that they were recommending currently from Anthony Fauci. And it's like, this is from their website. I'm

not stretching anything. I'm not adding to it. It didn't sound like Alex Jones as he presented the information, suspended indefinitely. And obviously he does fine. He practices medicine. So he still is fine financially. For others like Brett Weinstein, who was just on Joe Rogan with one of America's frontline doctors speaking about ivermectin, YouTube shut his channel down. He monetized him, in fact. He was kicked for everybody. I'm sure my show has heard of Brett Weinstein and Dr. Brett Weinstein and his story at Evergreen College. It's in full detail in The Madness of Crowds by Douglas Murray. We'll link to that in the show notes, one of my favorite books of 2020.

But this is a professor who had to leave his profession, something he was planning on retiring doing. And in that, thanks to Joe Rogan, he's formed a large audience on YouTube, a large audience on his podcast. And he's been a guy who is quite liberal, who has approached this in a curious manner, right? And this is a part of the discussion is that like, how are we not having a discussion anymore? The nature of science is to discuss.

The nature of science is to say, hey, wait a minute, maybe there's a different way. And all he was doing was proposing some of the facts that he had heard. And he is very good at sourcing some great people. And he brought on this doctor who has really been on, I think he and the group that he works with developed the protocol for ivermectin.

And that went against the narrative. So deplatformed, demonetized, has a strike or two on YouTube, doesn't understand why. And again, medical doctors that are coming up with this program, legally allowed to do the program that they're talking about and discussing, he goes on Rogan's to vent and they fucking take it down. They take it off Rogan's. And this is a beautiful thing long-term, right? Because you don't fucking scratch the sleeping

lion. I don't know if it's back up, but I mean, it's a big deal. And it's waking up a lot of people that might not normally have been exposed to that information and might not know who a Dr. Jerome Mercola is or a Dr. Sherry Tenpenny and might not listen to my podcast or some of these other podcasts that it's reaching a lot of larger audience and drawing more people to wake up to the fact of what's happening. Yeah. And I think it should wake us up to the fact that we need to be more sovereign around everything, right? Like the concept that we are the product needs to kind of be removed from our ethos. And we have to take a little bit of onus again to controlling our own sovereignty, right? Like every part of the current system, we have to change. We have to take the psychedelic that is Bitcoin to change our thinking around the default mode network that

we understand how everything works, how everything works around money, right? Like this happens on social. Eventually it's going to happen in banking. Remember, the money that you leave in your bank account is not your money. It is the bank's money. And they give you an IOU when you wire it into that account. It can be taken away at any time. It can be confiscated by the government and it could be not yours very quickly. So all of these aspects revolve around the same thing of us being true and sovereign beings in ourselves. And so this is just the, I think in a big way, it's just, we're seeing little hints of it

and we just have to take ownership of saying, guys, this is happening in the world and we have to pay attention. So in order for us to be sovereign in all these things, we have to own new systems. We can't go back to the other system. I think one thing that I'm a little bit weary of of what's happening out in the world also

is that there's a bunch of people that are developing things like censorship resistant, this and that, like they're trying to call, oh, we're going to build it on the blockchain and we're going to create all these buzzwords and create the new platform that Facebook can't ever turn us off. All of these things are great marketing,

but they're not a true protocol. And that's the thing you have to be wary about is that what most people are building is just another version of Facebook with another shiny position. They're not actually changing the way that we communicate. They're not changing the way that you can move money. So I think that's something to really, as an audience member, is to understand, as these new things emerge, because there will be a lot of these. I mean, since this last 12 months have just been like, there's a lot of people thinking about censorship and the problems around it.

How do you think about a protocol? What is the technical elements around how something is built? And is it providing true digital sovereignty? One thing I'll note also is like, I think what's really exciting about what we're doing is that it allows for everyone to be part of the creator's economy, right? So right now, the way we understand the currency of the creator economy is that you as an audience member would contribute to the funds of a creator because they're creating content. But what we think the future is that

the audience members also get paid. So what's exciting about your particular channel, right? We're going to create your channel today at some point. If someone else posts a funny meme inside of your channel, they can be paid by other people within the network as a boost. So the community becomes everybody. What we call this is omnidirectional payments.

It's not single directional payments because the way we understand Patreon, the way we understand OnlyFans right now is that like you're just paying the creator, but can the creator pay you? Can you as an audience member pay another member of the audience peer to peer? That to me is a really exciting part about the future when you build on top of money is that you can do these creative

things, right? You can do these creative things. And then I like to talk a little bit about spam. And I think spam is like probably one of the worst things that happens in social media because people understand like spam is free. So one thing that we kind of, we built out is this thing called staking. So what happens is that you can decide this as a creator. Because remember, someone is, an audience member is coming to Kyle Kingsbury's private node that he's created on the internet. So he can set rules for his community. One of the rules he can set is like,

does he want to put a price per message? For someone to put a message into the group, does that cost something? I'd argue, yes, it should. The second thing is that how do you prevent spam, which is through a thing called staking? So what we do, and this is because you've built it into the protocol. This is not our decision.

It's the technology that does this. When you make a comment, you take a certain amount of Bitcoin and put it into escrow. It's put into escrow into the creator's account. If the admin or the creator of that channel decides to delete that comment for spam, the person that made the comment loses that Bitcoin. They lose the stake that they made. They lose the escrow.

But if the comment stays up for more than 12 hours, it's fine. You get the money right back. Nothing, no harm, no foul. But what this does is it prevents spam because spam only works on the internet if it's free, where people can go to the first comment on YouTube and just say, download my app, do this, do this. It only works if it's free. If you're spamming, your message doesn't get out there and it costs money, you're not going to spam. It just doesn't work that way. The numbers don't work out. So I think that's another huge opportunity that we have is like, let the protocol be the anti-spam feature, not 18,000 people in the Philippines checking comments one by one to make sure that this is a spam or not spam. There's an

opportunity to let the protocol decide. That's huge. You know, the mental image that I had in my head was David Avocado Wolf's telegram, right? And it's just loaded with fucking fantastic memes. Memes that inspire, memes that make me laugh, memes that fucking, you know, have the ability. Are you pulled out? Yeah, I think so.

Are you? Yeah, I can't hear myself anymore. Let me get you. Hello? Oh, we're better. Are you? Yeah, I can't hear myself anymore. Let me get you. Hello? Oh, we're better. Yeah, we got it back. Sorry about that. I'm using this fucking low-tech splitter here to get us both to hear ourselves.

Anywho, I love David Avocado's telegram, David Avocado Wolf. And I love him. He's awesome. And what's cool about his feed is that there's so much great stuff. I could actually say this one was my favorite and send him money for that. And what's cool about when David Avocado Wolf is a part of this, I will be able to post a meme to his. Yes.

And then all of his audience in that community will see it. If it's dope, it stays. If it's not dope, it gets fucking deleted. Exactly. Right? So if it's awesome and it flows with that community, it will remain there. And other people have the ability to pay me

as a contributor to the community, not as the creator or owner of that community. Of course. And if it's shit, then it's taken out. Of course. Right? So that is the thumbs up and the thumbs down done financially. And it's the thumbs up and the thumbs down that actually carries weight.

There's substance behind it. This is the beginning of the concept of peer governance versus platform governance. The peers of the network decide. The peers of the private community decide. This is not open social media that you post and everyone. It's like, you're deciding to be part of this particular person's channel because you have an affinity toward that channel. Likely you would pay to be part of that community. It's not free to join a private group from your favorite creator, right? You're paying to that creator to

join that. And then you're contributing to the conversation of that micro community, right? Because I think this is the beginning of that micro community right because i think this is the beginning of those micro communities and then micro communities will evolve into physical communities and then this becomes digital countries so we can get into a little bit of that but yeah well let's let's is there anything left to finish around this part of the conversation and then we can talk about what i think this potential future looks like i think i think open source is the other last piece to me that's really important about how you need to build

in the new world versus the old world, right? So most companies that we understand right now, I think of the world, like the Facebooks of the world, the Twitters, right now Twitter's not open source, as in the sense of the source code is available for you to read into seeing how every message is used because that's the proprietary information

of those companies. We are taking a position that everything we do is open source. And what that means is that anyone can go to the protocol itself, they can join the network as an individual user without ever going through our node builder

or actually building those relays if you're a developer or you have the ability to understand how to create an umbrella or a relay. But also what it does is it allows for better alignment for user preferences. The contributors that are building the system can tell us like, hey, fix this, add this. It's not just these product managers at Facebook that decide what happens.

It's the people that use the product that can decide what happens. It allows us to have rapid solutions of software bugs. It allows us to really heighten our security. And most importantly, it allows you to actually see what's going on underneath the hood. One thing that I was talking to someone about is like, well, if you're open source, that means someone could just take all your code

and change the name of the application and put it out as their own. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. We're so open that if somebody else, that's flattering to us, that if someone would take the code that we spent a year working on,

change the name and built their own little shiny version of it and then the world had another application that was an open source node to node protocol that built on lightning that had more users and then we've achieved what we want to achieve for the world which every person should be part of this open architecture system everyone should be able to contribute to these messaging. And so I think that's like, to me, one of the ethoses about how this thing came about was it was a gift that I wanted to bring to the world, right? Like I started this project not by going out to investors and begging them to give me money. I took my own wealth

and I said, I'm going to build this for the world. I want to present this because there's no way you go to an investor and say, I'm going to build a peer the world. I want to present this. Because there's no way you go to an investor and say, I'm going to build a peer-to-peer network on top of Bitcoin that someone's going to say yes to. This is the first of its kind. It's the first social network built on top of Bitcoin. If we kind of bring those ethoses. And I think that's the exciting part about it.

So it was me saying, I think the world needs this. I think the world should have this. I think the world should have open communication. And let's take it out and kind of make it happen. It's so phenomenal, brother. And it's phenomenal. Obviously, I know you very well. You're one of my best friends. The level of trust that you have in knowing how this unfolds as a gift to the world, it reminds me of the guy who created the polio vaccine and everybody was yelling at him, you got to patent this, you got to patent this. And he's like, would you patent the sun? No, this is for humanity. This is what

we need. And this is going to be given out. There's never been another vaccine developed like that. None of them. He's the only one. And whatever side of the fence people lie on that just understand everything is for profit other than his you know everything he was the only open source of that genre and uh it's really cool to see you trust in the divine and understand like what what your mission is right now and purpose in delivering this to the world at a time when we need it most yeah it's fantastic thank you man and i and i can't you know i appreciate your support so much because what in delivering this to the world at a time when we need it most. Yeah. It's fantastic, brother. Thank you, man. And I can't, you know, I appreciate your support so much because what we've been able to do, and this is the oddness about coming to Austin, right? Like I came to Austin last September really to chill.

Like I had no plan to work on this. And then a month in, there's this like divine hit, me and you have dinner with Mickey Willis and Mickey and I go down this path, start talking about where does the next pandemic movie get released? All the things you need to do that. And eight months later, we have an application that gets built. This was the reason I came to Austin. This was the purpose of, because it's for this community, right? It's no coincidence that all these people live in this place and all the conversations around sovereignty seem to be happening in this place alone.

And it got me to meet, you know, JP and JP is an incredible kind of, he's come on board as a co-founder of this business in a really strong way and so exciting to have him on board and his message and like how he wants to bring this to the world and how everyone is just so supportive of this idea here. No other place in the world has this community.

And I have so much gratitude for you around that. Yeah, you're co-creating it as we go, brother. There's a nice little wormhole here in Austin drawing people in for better and for worse. I think it's all for the better. And I think it's just, it's no coincidence. It's like, I do believe in divine and I believe in divine. And what's interesting is like,

if you look at my trajectory of my first company, I focused on helping influencers monetize and build out these social media companies, essentially Instagram. And now I knew that that company was what was there to build this company. That was the platform. That was the beginning of, okay, this is your wealth base. This is your connection base with the people that you know.

Now you got to bring this to the world because the world truly does need this. This is not something that we're questioning at this point. It's like we need this to push forward as a species because we are being censored on every level. We are told what we should listen to. We're supposed to act like we're sheep, but that's not the truth. The truth is we're sovereign beings and we need two sovereign things. We need sovereign communication. We need sovereign money and we're providing both in one solution. Yeah. I've spoken many times with you, many times in this podcast about broken systems and how over the course of the last 18 months, it's become glaringly obvious how broken some of these systems are from finance to education to healthcare to now freedom of speech. And to just point fingers and say this shit's broken, we need to tear it down and have kind of an anarchist mindset. That's not the way forward. I think it was Weinstein who said, who wins the revolution? That's the person who

inherits the rubble, right? We don't want to tear something down. We want to replace it with something better. And this is replacing so much with something better. And still in its infancy, you know what I'm saying? We we get to see what this determines. I mean, I don't understand blockchain well, but somebody said, you know, if you consider blockchain, it's like when the internet first came out and it was just a email and a couple of other things. We didn't understand the full capabilities of the internet.

We are just now figuring out some of the full capabilities of blockchain and that will continue to unfold over time. And the same is true with N2N2. It's so early. We are so early. The things that we're talking about is so early. And even I believe that Lightning and particularly the Lightning Network is the future monetary protocol of the world. It's as important as SMTP. What people don't really understand is when you send an email to someone, that's being done through this protocol called SMTP. No one really knows that. They just know they send an email and it goes to somebody,

but there's an underlying thing around the internet that makes that magic happen. What we're building on, the Lightning Network, is that for the future of money? We're just the first one to do it, but everyone will do this in the future. It's the way, like it's like in the Mandalorian, like this is the way, this is the way. It's so obvious that this is the way, Bitcoin is the way. Fuck yeah, brother. Well, let's dive into some of this,

the future of what is potentially here when it comes to our sovereignty and how society can be changed as a whole from this? I think what we're seeing is that the ability to create communities digitally is way more efficient at the beginning than creating communities in real life. It's just better for now, right? It's the beginning to say like, so we have people listening to this. You have people in this digital community. I think fit for service is also an amazing analogy here

is that you guys have your academy app. And so there's people around the world that are talking about this idea, right? So eventually, if you can build a community big enough digitally, what you can do and tell that community, and let's just give a very direct example. So if you can build your digital community on N2N2, and this is an audience that you own,

that you communicate, and let's say we can get that to a million people, one million people around the world that believe in a certain idea, that believe in an ethos, that have specific values around something. And then we'd say to those million people, we want to go crowdsource territory, physical territory in the real world. And those million people contribute $1,000 to crowdsource territory. You now have a billion dollars of capital, $1 billion that has been crowdsourced by 1 million people.

And you go to a government, let's say we go to Governor Abbott. We say, Governor Abbott, we want to create an autonomous zone. We want to create a place in Texas that we can do a few special things. Number one, we want to have self-driving cars with no restrictions. We want the ability to have drones

and be able to move things around. We want to have the ability to use stem cells freely because we want medical freedom in this specific area. But we just wanted for this autonomous zone. It's just a small zone. And we're going to give you a billion dollars for you to allow us to have half a million acres or maybe a million, whatever it is, a certain amount of land to go and do that. Then people start moving there. Then people start moving there. Then people move there because of the values that you created digitally and crowdsourced digitally to come to a specific place.

And the future of what I like to call crypto civilizations. Eventually, through digital experiences, people will crowdsource territory and move into specific places on their own. And this is, I think, the future of applications like this, is that this is the beginning of us creating these digital communities that will eventually move into the physical world. Because you want to be around people that are like-minded. You want to live around those people. And if you can crowdsource in this way, that's the future of a digital civilization. Or as Balaji's calls it, specifically,

a crypto civilization. It's such a beautiful, Balaji's calls it specifically a crypto civilization. It's such a beautiful idea. And even if, even if, you know, driverless cars and STEM cells doesn't resonate with you, that's, you find the people that share the commonalities of a shared myth. And I'll link to the episode that Paul Cech did a solo cast on tribe building, which is phenomenal. Jose, please. Thank you, brother. It's absolutely phenomenal. But that's, in essence, what we're working towards is in a sea of 7 billion plus people,

finding our people and reconnecting and allowing the sovereignty of each individual node, per se, of land to operate in such a way that they're, number one, do no harm, right? I think that's a universal law, but they're able to live in a way that's impactful and meaningful for them. And they're allowed to do so. And a neighboring group can live in their way

and they're allowed to do so. You know, the first time I went to Kentucky, I know I brought this up a few times on this podcast, but I was blown away. I was 28 years old. I was out with some special forces guys, and I was teaching the hand-to-hand portion of the combatives. They were teaching me a lot of the weapons work.

And I saw that there was dry counties and wet counties. And I was like, what the fuck is this? What's a dry county? And they're like, oh, all the people who live in this county, they're not allowed to drink alcohol because they voted it that way, right? Like alcohol is illegal here. And I was like, as a 28-year-old drunk, not during fight camp, but certainly partied outside of fight camp, I was like, that's absurd. And years later, I looked at that and I was like, oh, that actually is the smartest, most intelligent way. Because if everyone there agrees, we don't even want alcohol in our fucking, in our stores. We don't want access to that. And for whatever reasons that

may be, maybe it's a town of alcoholics that have all given it up. Maybe it's a town of people that view alcohol as a double. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they all agree. And the people who want alcohol can move to the wet county. That's right next door. And they can access it there legally. And they can say, yeah, we all agree. We want that in our stores. We want to be able to party and let loose and celebrate with alcohol in that way with respect and reverence or without, right?

Like that freedom of choice to be around people that are like-minded should always be there. There is no one size fits all diet. There's no one size fits be there. There is no one-size-fits-all diet. There's no one-size-fits-all vaccine. There's no one-size-fits-all anything. And this would allow that to take place. It would allow us to find purpose and meaning and tribe building and an ethos and a myth that is shared collectively within a group, however big or however small, 10 people, 100 people, a million people, a million people. It doesn't really matter. And I think the ethos of that is looking at the efficiency of how it starts digitally, right? We're seeing remnants of this

now where people are like, oh, we're going to go buy land. We're going to go build this community and then people are going to come. I think that's the wrong approach. I think the approach is you start the other way around. Remember, the default mode network has to be broken. First, you start your community digitally. You grow it to a certain extent with values and growth. Then you crowdsource, and then you build the physical manifestation of that, not the other way around.

And I think that's the approach that's a little bit more scalable per se. And it's the approach that I think will work in the long term. And I think that we have, what's interesting is we have, we all have social contracts with each other that we potentially have done in a past life. And so I think these digital communities will be the fulfillment of those social contracts. I love it. I absolutely love it. Yep. One more book, Sacred Contracts, Caroline Mace, MYSS, phenomenal. That talks on the soul level, what these contracts might look like and breaks it down very well archetypically. Somebody I've learned a great deal from. What else is there, brother? Is there anything else

that we haven't covered on this first go around? I know we're going to be back here quite a bit. I think we're going to be back when we see what this does. You know, we have, you have a little bit over 150 people on it. As of today, we will have a few thousand in the next week or two, as we really put this out to the world. I think we'll have another discussion about what this ends up being and what this turns into as more people come on to the, this idea of building and decentralized internet. Beautiful brother. Well, um, most certainly I want to link to people's ability to go online right now and sign up and download the app. Yep. Talk a bit about how that process looks. Yep. So, so the way that it works right now is you have, you have two, we have one main avenue currently, and it's the ability to have your own node. So the way you do is you kind of go to our

hub. So if you go to end2end2.co, it'll lead you to the hub, which is hub.n2n2.chat. And what that does is it allows you to purchase with a credit card your node. And what happens is that we do a few things for the node. What we do is we preload some Bitcoin on there for you. We also create the relays and we also create the channels that allow you to communicate with everyone in the existing Lightning Network all in one go. So you put your credit card information in, you buy your node, you get a connection string that allows you to go into the application for the first time. That allows you to enter your private virtual machine. The first thing you want to do when you

get into the app is backup your private keys. So you go to security and backup, export your keys, and save that in a very secure location. Once you're in there, you're in the application. Then you'll be able to move Bitcoin into your node. Again, this is not something like, we don't transfer Bitcoin into money. That's a money transfer service, but we work with a partner called River Financial.

River will allow you through their application to move Bitcoin directly into your node. And then it has the ability to do what you want. Then there's communities, right? JP has his community. Aaron has his community. Dr. Saladino has a community. You will have your community hopefully today. And then it'll have the ability to chat with anyone on the network. You just have to ask them for their pub key. And then that's how we begin the process. Currently, there is a fee to join per month because these are actual physical virtual machines. It's like, imagine you have your own website. Websites aren't free. If you have your kylekingsbury.com, there's a bit of fees to have that virtual machine hosted. So right now the nodes are $9 a month

and it'll be a reoccurring subscription. And that's just an inherent cost that we have. Or down the road, you can build your own, right? Right. And that was the second avenue that I was going to say is that you can actually go right now, buy a Raspberry Pi, install a software called Umbral. Umbral will allow you to have the entire Bitcoin core blockchain onto a terabyte hard drive. This will cost you about three to $500 to get it going. Install our relay, which is open source and available. And then you're on the network for free. We have nothing to do with that. Like you create your own channels. There's a little bit more complexity. The reason that we have a fee per month is that we are creating all these instances and there are, it's an individual

virtual machine for every single person that you have full custody over. We have no control over that virtual machine. We have no idea what's on it. There's all these elements that we had to do. And we would have, we prefer not not to fake you out and say, okay, in a year we're going to have ads and then we're going to subsidize the cost. It costs money to run this thing, right? It does. It's just not free. So we have to put it back on the user. It's back on the sovereignty of you as an individual. And that's the way we're going to build a peer-to-peer network is that we have to build these systems from the beginning. If I would have told you it's free and we're going to figure out a way down the line to charge money,

that would be great, but that's just not truth. And we're not being subsidized by a Russian billionaire on this chat app, which one of the most famous ones, that's what it actually is. It's just being subsidized by a billionaire or it's being subsidized by donations in a different way. That's just not our approach. Fuck yeah, brother. We'll link to that in the show notes. Also we'll link to my, my node. Exactly. So you're going to, there's going to be an ability to have a specific QR code that people can scan to enter your private community. So we can put that in embedded right at the bottom of the show notes as well. Beautiful brother. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. This is exciting. Kyle. Thank you. I'm honored

to have this conversation with you as a brother. I love you so much. You know, you've, you're such an inspiration to me continually. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.