Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #218 Dr Thomas Cowan

Episode Date: September 15, 2021

Dr Thomas Cowan has been a warrior for truth for far longer than the last 18 months. He’s been through the gauntlet, and stayed true to his principles. It was an honor to have him on and look for the run-back. We talked about childhood health as well as the true nature of dis-ease and imbalance in today’s world. Connect with Dr Cowan:   Website: drcowansgarden.com  Instagram: @drcowanspowders  Facebook: Dr Cowan's Garden  Show Notes:   Dr Tom on Living 4D Spotify  Apple    Dr Tom on AMP Spotify Apple     The Invisible Rainbow: A History of Electricity and Life   Sponsors:   BLUblox head over to www.blublox.com for the best blue light blocking glasses in the game! Use code “KKP” and get 10% off any and everything there!  Bioptimizers To get “Bloodsugar Breakthrough” to help control your bloodsugar levels on those celebrations when you may cut a little loose, click the link below and use code word “KINGSBU10” for an additional 10% off. bloodsugarbreakthrough.health/kingsbu Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order!  Soul CBD Head to mysoulcbd.com  and punch in “KKP” at checkout for 15% off the best in the CBD biz. Connect with Kyle:   Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys   Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back to the show, everybody. We have, I say this every week, we have a very special guest. We actually do this, Darp. We have a guest that I have been following for, man, I'd say seven or eight years. He's been working, I mean, he got his medical license when I was two years old. So 1984, I believe, as I heard on the interview Paul check did on living 4d, which we'll link to the show notes was fantastic. I will also link in the show notes to the interview he did with my brother, Aubrey Marcus, not completely different conversations, but definitely different enough for you to want to, if you want more, those are great places to check out. I first learned about Dr. Thomas Cowan in a book, The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care, which was authored by him and Sally Fallon Murrell, who is the head of the Weston A. Price himself and the Weston A. Price Foundation through How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy by Paul Cech, which is, in my opinion,

the Bible of health and wellness. He's gone on to write a number of different books. He co-authored another one, The Fourfold Path to Healing, Working with the Laws of Nutrition, Therapeutics, Movement, and Meditation in the Art of Medicine. That was also with Sally Fallon. And another book that I have read, Vaccines, Autoimmunity, and the Changing Nature of Childhood Illnesses, which was brilliant. Also co-authored by Sally Fallon Morrell. This is a brilliant book. It's very small too. So this was a pertinent book to me, well ahead of any of the nonsense that's occurred in the last year and a half. And for really a lot

of the reasons of living in California, where they were mandating vaccines and getting rid of religious exemptions and making it very hard to get a medical exemption. We were already living in Texas, I believe when this book came out, but yeah, 2018, we were already here and it's just a fantastic book. But needless to say, I've been chomping at the bit to get Dr. Thomas Cowan on. He has gone through the ringer through all this. Obviously, if you look at the Dirty Dozens list with people like Dr. Joe Mercola, Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, Dr. Rashid Buttar, and whoever else is on that list, there's quite a few medical doctors who are putting their butts on the line to communicate the truth to you in a way that's palpable and in a way that will not get them canceled, more or less. And we've

seen now with Mercola, pretty much taking everything. He's had archives. Another guy that I learned about maybe 10 years ago, yeah, in 2008, when I was first getting into the UFC, Felipe Nover, a nurse in New York City, turned me on to Joe Mercola. And just a phenomenal health advocate, you know, a guy that really was on the line. And now he has to take all of his stuff off his website. He only leaves it up for 48 hours just due to cancel culture and the war on words, which we're experiencing. Anyway, continuing, he wrote Cancer and the New Biology of Water, Human Heart, Cosmic

Heart, A Doctor's Quest to Understand, Treat, and Prevent Cardiovascular Disease, and his latest, The Truth About Contagion, Exploring Theories of How Disease Spreads, also co-authored by Sally Fallon Morrell. These are brilliant books. I have Human Heart, Cosmic Heart, Truth About Contagion, and there isn't a single book that I've opened with Dr. Thomas Cowan in the title that did not blow me away. So thank you. Thank you very much, Tom, for coming on the podcast. Thank you for all the work that you continue to do. We will also link to Thomas Cowan's website, drcowansgarden.com.

You can find out fantastical ways to improve your diet and nutrition through organic herbs and mushrooms and different things of that nature. But he has a wealth of knowledge. I will be happy to have him back on the show whenever he has time available. I know as things continue to unfold more and more, we will see the truth more and more. We will have things revealed to us that unveil what is really going on behind the scenes, how we truly attain health, how it has been robbed from us and what we can do about that. In this conversation, because I have kids and because I got into his work because of my kids, we do focus

a little bit on kids at a couple of different intervals. One of the things that I'm diving into is a book by Ivan Illich called Deschooling Society. And I'm about halfway through it. It is brilliant. And there's a point towards the end of the podcast where Dr. Cowan really dives deep into what this book means. He gives quotes from it and he recommends it. And this is a guy who had studied Steiner inside and out, his education, his agriculture and anthroposophic medicine. I think that's how you say that, but really understanding us as energetic beings, which is a big part of that. And we had Barrett Waldorf and Waldorf decided to go with CDC guidelines and we pulled them out.

There was another school that opened up, which were a lot of the teachers who had left Waldorf, and that was fantastic. They stayed in school all year last year without masks and no kids got sick to our amazement, not to my amazement, but we have a lot of gifts here in Texas that most people don't. But even still with all that, we have decided to teach Bear from home and Tom had some great, great insights on there. Thank you for the book recommendation, Deschooling Society. It's a small book, maybe 115 pages and brilliant. Another book that Tom recommends, and I'm not sure if he did on this podcast. I think he may have, but I recently watched a documentary that was mind-blowing on all this stuff. And the book recommendation is something that I've heard Dr. Thomas Cowan reference in the past.

And again, I don't know if it was from this podcast because we did it a couple of weeks back, but it's called The Invisible Rainbow, A History of Electricity and Life by Arthur Furstenberg. We will link to that in the show notes. This is a thick, meaty book. It's available on Audible. Thank goodness. Don't read the reviews. They're comical. Again, you know, piping off the mouth about pseudoscience and crap like that was something they don't quite understand. It's a history lesson of electromagnetic frequencies and how they've impacted our world and humanity as a whole. It is thick, 551 pages, but it moves smoothly on Audible. There's a narrator who reads it, not Arthur, and he's a phenomenal narrator. Most of

the time I have big issues with Hollywood narrators reading someone else's book. I generally like to listen to the author of that book read it themselves because they know when to enunciate things, when to pause, when to give extra meaning to certain words because they're the ones that wrote it. But this narrator is phenomenal. And I'm going to give five-star reviews all across the board when I'm done listening to it. And I'll probably go back through this book, as Paul Cech does, studying something to highlight and take notes on it, because this really does lay out so much of the things that I've come to understand from the book, Dissolving Illusions by Dr. Susan Humphreys, another great book on the history of Western

medicine as it pertains to vaccines and disease. Just phenomenal stuff. A lot of that's in here. Anywho, I could go on and on about this podcast. I absolutely loved it. We will run it back again in the near future. And that's it. Help's it, uh, help our show by purchasing stuff from our sponsors that has a direct benefit to me and allows the show to take place. Today's episode is brought to you by blue blocks. Blue blocks is a phenomenal blue blocking glasses set up that works on prescription glasses, as well as reading glasses, as well as non-prescription. And one of the things that we've come to understand in modern society and the great modern experiment we're running is that light has an effect on our nervous system. It has effect on our cognitive function and our

neurochemistry and our immune function and our circadian rhythm. And blue light specifically does this. I've gone into great detail on certain podcasts with people about how light affects the body and impacts it. And one of the ways that we can curtail that from all the screens that we have in front of us is to use blue light blocking technology as glasses and to also limit blue light exposure in the evening. So these guys have a hundred percent blackout sleep mask, as well as red light therapy devices and sleep friendly light bulbs. I love their sleep friendly light bulbs. I have one in my nightstand upstairs as well as downstairs. Sometimes I sleep upstairs, sometimes I sleep downstairs with Tosh, but anywho, you can find out more over at blueblocks.com, B-L-U-B-L-O-X.com.

They have free shipping globally, five business days to the USA from Australia. They're Australian made, that equals high quality, evidence-based from lab work, not mass produced in overseas factories. These come in non-prescription, prescription, and reading magnification options. You can also send them your own frames and they will customize into blue light glasses. They have the most stylish frames for blue light glasses featured in GQ and Vogue. So check this out to get the best evidence-based and stylish blue light glasses, visit blueblocks.com and use discount code KKP at checkout for 15% off. That's blueblocks.com, B-L-U-B-L-O-X.com, and discount code KKP for 15% off.

We are also brought to you by Bioptimizers and their brand new product, Blood Sugar Breakthrough. One of the keys to optimal health is balanced blood sugar. This is critical for staying slim and building lean muscle. But what happens when you have a weak moment and wolf down some ice cream? Your pancreas releases insulin, which tells your body there is plenty of energy, so now is the time to store fat. But here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether you eat ice cream or drink a glass of orange juice. I'll say it again. Processed carbohydrates from chips to crackers to donuts all have a similar effect on blood sugar. When you take in a lot of carbs too quickly without much fiber or protein or fat to slow down the absorption,

you'll experience a blood sugar spike followed by a sugar crash, which leads to low energy, brain fog, weight gain, loss of immune function, you name it. And due to the addictive nature of sugar and carbs, once your body brings your blood sugars levels back down, that's when the cravings kick in. And if you give into those cravings, it starts the cycle all over again. So I hope you can see how important it is to maintain healthy blood sugar levels. The question is, how do you do it? One way is to reduce your intake of processed carbs and make sure you eat whole foods that contain fat, protein, and fiber. But none of us are perfect. We all cheat sometimes. I do myself, especially around birthdays and holidays. So it just makes sense to have a way to maintain balanced blood sugar day

in and day out, even if you're celebrating and enjoying a cheat day. That's why I recommend a product called Blood Sugar Breakthrough by Bioptimizers. This easy-to-take supplement is the result of numerous tests to find the absolute best formula for maintaining healthy blood sugar. In fact, Bioptimizers went through five different formulations before landing on this one. All you have to do is take a couple of capsules 15 minutes before a meal to safely control blood sugar. The best part is it works even if you splurge or cheat. By taking blood sugar breakthrough before meals, you'll avoid the worst effects of high blood sugar like weight gain. You'll also build lean muscle faster while enjoying more energy, mental clarity, and fewer cravings. For an exclusive offer for my listeners, just go to

bloodsugarbreakthrough.health.kingsboo. That's a listeners, just go to bloodsugarbreakthrough.health slash kingsboo. That's a long one. That's bloodsugarbreakthrough.health slash kingsboo and use code kingsboo10 to save 10% when you try blood sugar breakthrough. And for a limited time, Bioptimizers is also giving away free bottles of their best-selling products, P3OM and Masszymes with select purchases. I love every one of these guys' products. These guys are phenomenal products. So check it out. Click the link in the show notes, bloodsugarbreakthrough.health slash Kingsboo, Kingsboo10 at checkout for 10% off. We are also brought to you by Organifi. Organifi is a line of organic superfood blends that offer plant-based

nutrition with high quality ingredients, less than three grams of sugar per serving. We had the founder of Organifi, Drew Canole, on the podcast. I absolutely love that one. Please check back through the archives to find that episode because he is a highly tuned in dude that I absolutely love. And everybody that I've met, I've met quite a few of the Organifi folks over at Paul Chek's workshops and at his birthday recently. They're all amazing people. They're amazing artists. They're just a, they're a family. They're a really good, really good family of people that are doing great things for the world. Their mission is to unite the world through health and happiness by providing access to high quality nutrition, education, and community. Organifi is more than a superfood company.

It is a lifestyle with roots in transformational coaching. We discovered the power of mindset and community in creating sustainable change. These guys use only the highest quality ingredients, most of which are all organic and biodynamic. Each blend is science-backed to craft the most effective doses with ingredients that are organic and free of fillers when possible and contain less than three grams of sugar per serving and glyphosate free when possible.

They're convenient. They're great tasting. This is something that I used to just use on the road. You know, I'd take the greens with me and I'd throw it in a shaker bottle and mix it up while I'm on a flight. And of course that is going to be more alkaline and lower travel stress with a high dose of adaptogenic herbs, mushrooms, as well as ashwagandha, which is one of my favorite ingredients in their greens. The green juice has 11 superfoods for resetting the body and feeling amazing. It takes just 30 seconds, no chopping, shopping, juicing, or blending or cleaning up afterwards. Like I said, 600 milligrams of proven ashwagandha, which is adaptogenic herbs, 100% USDA certified organic. It'll help decrease cortisol and support cortisol, which helps with fat loss and other goodies and just a better all sense of wellbeing. It helps

to promote and support a healthy response to stress. And these are stressful times. So I live on the greens. I absolutely love it. And it rounds out, you know, if I'm at an airport and I just get a bacon cheeseburger on lettuce, there's not a whole lot else that's going into that. I'm going to get some nutrients from the red meat and I'm going to get some fat and some macros and protein and things like that. And I'm not going to blow my diet out the window by getting too many processed carbs, but I'm not getting a ton of micronutrients from that. It's not organ meat and it certainly isn't these highly bioavailable adaptogenic herbs that are found in the green drink. Greens by day, gold by night. That's what I say. Those are my one,

two punch. And then I take the red during workouts. Check it all out over at organifi.com slash KKP. That is O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com slash KKP and use code word KKP at checkout for 20% off. Organifi.com slash KKP and code KKP for 20% off everything in the store. Absolutely love their products. They are a mainstay, whether I'm traveling or not. We are also, last but not least, brought to you by MySoulCBD.com. SoulCBD was founded by Mike Lee. Mike Lee's coming on the podcast. He was a world-renowned professional boxer. And Angie Lee, his sister, marketing expert, keynote speaker, and serial entrepreneur after

experiencing their own struggles with an autoimmune disorder and anxiety. Well, I didn't thankfully have autoimmune, but I had a hell of a lot of anxiety when I was fighting. And CBD, not only, I mean, really that lowered anxiety is a side effect. I had heard about ways that cannabis could help with that specifically with CBD. I started taking CBD to lower inflammation and I actually got off. This is a personal experience and equals one, but I got off of eight, 200 milligram tablets of ibuprofen a day, which I was taking to train two or three times a day in mixed martial arts when I was in the UFC. And this is what helped me come off of it. This lowered systemic pain and inflammation and allowed me to compete drug-free, over-the-counter drugs,

but this allowed me to compete without the use of non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, which were literally destroying my gut tissue. And who knows what else? I absolutely love it. This is straight from Mother Nature's garden. As you know, this pharmacy and pharmacopoeia that is Mother Nature is by design. It is a firm belief and understanding that I have through my plant medicine journeys that all of these things, how the cannabinoid system interacts with our own is by design, as above, so below. And this stuff is one of nature's miracles out there. All products contain zero THC in our third-party lab test. This is important for a lot of people. A lot of people have jobs where they're tested and they're not sure if 0.3% will test positive or not. This gets you around all of that. 0.0 THC. It's physician

formulated and backed by science. Consistency is key. And folks, this is the best tasting CBD on the planet. CBD that doesn't taste like dirt or have an earthy taste is enjoyable. Amazing taste equals you look forward to taking it and reinforces good habits and consistency. These guys have a number of different products, CBD oil drops in three different strengths, 500 mg, 1,000 mg, 1,500 mg. I like the big boy stuff. Watermelon mint is my absolute favorite, but orange, peppermint, lemon, lime, they're all great. They have gummies, they have capsules, and the capsules have different styles to them. So they have an alert with a little bit of caffeine. They have dream, which has some melatonin in it,

relief, chill, and immunity. And then there's CBD cream, which is phenomenal, 1,500 milligram cream. I think it's got menthol in it, whatever it is. It's kind of like Bengay, but it's organic. And I throw it on and it makes my skin tingle. And I'll actually do this before I lay on my higher dose mat at night. I'll throw it on my back and my ass, and it just lights up that area. I don't know how it works, but, know, and of course I'm combining sponsors now, but this stuff is phenomenal. And I'm still, you know, I got a lot of mileage on this vehicle from fighting and football since I was 10 years old. And I really think CBD is a godsend because it allows me to train still to this day, to look my best, to feel my best and to do it organically.

Check it all out. MySoulCBD.com. That's M-Y-S-O-U-L-C-B-D.com and apply code KKP at checkout for 15% off your order. Remember code KKP at checkout that lets them know that I sent you. And without further ado, Dr. Thomas Cowan. Let me give a clap for the audio boys. I absolutely loved you on my brother Aubrey Marcus's podcast about a year ago. And then of course, Paul Cech, who I was just out with for his 60th birthday. The Living 4D podcast was just incredible. I've been following you for some time. I think I got switched on to you by a holistic doctor probably seven or eight years ago. And it was while we were getting ready to have kids. The Nourishing Traditions book of baby and childcare you did with Sally Fallon, I think that's her name, just blew me away. I know there's about 100 different places we can go.

And I'd love for you to take this where you find most pertinent these days because you've been on the front lines talking about quite a bit in the past year and a half. You've got a recent book out, The Contagion Myth, I believe is the title. And I want to dive into as much as possible that we can. But I'd love for you to walk us through the nature of childhood illness. You know, if you break these things down as far as the stages, you have a background with Rudolf Steiner's work in anthroposophical medicine. I'd love to know what is the inner workings of the human body and how do these things come in stages in a natural living ecosystem? Okay.

So there's a lot of places we could start with that. The other thing is, is it possible to do a screen share? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So it would be, it's helpful to understand essentially what we're made of. And so let me just walk you through that. Because so if you ask most people, and now I'm talking about lay people and scientists slash doctors, what are we made of? They would say, well, we're made of cells, right? You have this liver and it's got cells in it. Now, if you ask them how they know that, they say, well, you take a piece of your liver out, and you look at it under a microscope, and you see these compartments that you could call cells. Now, interestingly, if you said, is this something that human beings have always believed, they wouldn't know. And it turns out that Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, Native American medicine, none of those people ever talked

about cells, right? They just didn't. That doesn't mean they're right and they weren't there, but they just didn't talk about them. It actually started around 1859 with a guy named Rudolf Verschow. He postulated that all living beings are composed of cells. And at the time, a lot of people disagreed with him. And he had a lot of political reasons why he said that. But anyways, that doesn't mean he's right or not right. So anyways, the interesting part of that question is, if you take something out of the living, if the only way you can see a cell in a liver is if you remove the piece of the liver from its living matrix, right? You can't see a cell while it's in you in, you know, while you're alive. And partly that's because we don't

have the microscopy power to do that. So it may be a technical issue. But anyways, let's say there that so, so you take this liver out of the this piece of the liver, you remove it, and then you stain it, which is a toxin. And then you dehydrate it, which is interesting. And then you see these compartments. you say, that's a cell. Now, then you do a bunch of other things. And here, I would just ask you to think about this for a minute. If I wanted to know what your hand does and what your hand is made of, right? So here's how I'm going to do it. First, I can cut your hand off your body. Then I'm going to put it in an enzyme bath.

And then I'm going to dehydrate it. And then I'm going to freeze it to 150 degrees below zero. And then I'm going to put it in a heavy metal stain. And then I'm going to shoot electron beam at it that evaporates any remaining water. And then I'm going to look at it under this microscope. And I'm going to see what your hand is made of and what it does. You would probably say, that's ridiculous. First of all, that whatever you get can't possibly be an accurate representation of what your hand actually looked like while it was, you know, attached to your arm.

And you could never figure out what your hand does. But anyway, so we have, so they, essentially, all those steps are how you prepare a slide to look at under an electron microscope. And when you do that, you see all these what are called subcellular organelles, which mean things inside the cell, like ribosomes and endoplasmic reticulum and Golgi apparatus and lipid bilayer membrane and nuclear pores and lysosomes, and there's a whole lot of them. Now, the problem is nobody has ever seen those, A, in a living cell. You don't even see cells in a living system. And nobody has ever seen those without doing those things. Now, the interesting thing about it is if you take one of them, which is called a ribosome, which is very important because we're told that's where the mRNA is made into protein.

So that has a lot to do with the whole COVID story. Every single ribosome picture in the published literature is a perfect circle. Now, if you think about a two-dimensional slide that shows you a perfect circle, that means it must have been a sphere in real life, right? Because otherwise it wouldn't be a circle. Now, if you remember that part of the process was macerating it, like putting it in a blender. What are the chances if you put an orange, which is a perfect sphere, in a blender, that every piece you got would be a perfect circle? You know what the answer is? Zero. You're holding up the perfect circle sign right there.

Right. Zero. You're holding up the perfect circle sign right there. Right. Zero. In other words, that cannot represent an actual system, an actual entity in real life. It's what's called an artifact, which means it's an artificial creation of the way they prepared the slide. And actually, it's a gas bubble, because the tissue is dying. And it always evolves gas and gas picks up heavy metal stain. And that's what they're seeing. And the reason I'm saying this in the answer to your question is, at the end of the day, the only things we actually know exist inside a living being like us is a very thin membrane, which may or may not have cells, organized water, mitochondria, and a nucleus. That's it. And so, so what is the system? The system is crystal, is a liquid crystal of water with stuff in it, like minerals and amino acids, et cetera. Now that liquid crystal functions as an antenna. And it, it, what it's, what it's downloading,

if you want to use that word, is energy wavelengths from the world. What part of the world? Like the sunlight and sound and emotions and thoughts and chemicals and hormones and a whole lot of things. And in order for the system to function properly, like a radio, right? Think about like a radio, it has to be properly tuned, right? Because if you have a radio and you smash it with a hammer, then it can't download the frequencies that you don't see, right? You don't see sound waves. But somehow, if it's a proper radio, it accepts the sound waves somehow and turns that into music, right? We all believe that because we hear it. And interestingly, I was in a car with a three-year-old friend of mine and an interview of me came on the radio and he looked at the radio and he said, he says, Dr. Tom, how'd you get into that radio? And obviously I wasn't in the radio, right? And that's like looking for consciousness in your brain. It's just not there. which is 70, and it downloads information and processes that and turns it into A, proteins,

and B, like output, like you. Now, if you mess up the receiver, now, how do you mess up the receiver? Well, you put arsenic in it, or you put glyphosate in it, or you don't eat properly, or you can mess up the input by instead of the wavelengths from the sun, which are broad spectrum and non-pulsed, you can put high pulsed, high intensity, single frequency wavelengths. Why do you do that? Because that's how you get a radio to work. A radio won't accept the sunlight because it's not 98.6. So you have to do that in order to make a radio work or to make your cell phone work. You put pulsed frequencies and that combination has a bad output. It's not the right, you don't get a proper you. So we call that sickness. Now your body in its wisdom says, hey, we've got messed up water.

Instead of being like a crystal, it's all like messed up. So it does the only thing it can, which is liquefy the crystal, right? We're talking about water like Jell-O. Let's say you have a poison grape in your Jell-O and you don't want it there. And you don't have a scooper to get it out. You liquefy the jello and then you let it run out and then you reconstitute a more perfect jello. That exactly describes childhood illness. You have a messed up gel. The first thing that happens is the child gets a fever, right? That melts the crystal. And then you get mucus, never the other way around, right?

Never. You don't get mucus and then a fever. You melt the gel, you make, run it out with mucus or run it out through a rash on your skin. And we call that measles or chickenpox. It's not an illness. It's a reconstitution process, erroneously called an illness. And then we try to have you not do that. And the predictable outcome is you get more and more toxic, more and more messed up gels. And now instead of a simple maturation reconstitution process called measles or a cold or chicken pox, now you've got asthma. And so now you're, you're messed up all the time, or you have eczema. So now you're messed up all the time. So of course, that's still another way your body is trying to eliminate, you know, toxins and

reconstitute itself. It's just now, it's more chronic because you have to do it all the time. So of course, you go to the next doctor and he says, oh, you've got eczema. So he stops you from having eczema. And the next thing you know, you've got something worse. And then you keep doing that until you get cancer when you're older. And then we say, I don't know how you got cancer, must be your genes. But it's a step-by-step process of keeping you from cleaning yourself, reconstituting yourself. And all these steps have been documented in every medical system ever until ours. And in fact, we know that if you take somebody with cancer, this was called Coley's toxins, and you bring back this whole fever process, you know, 40% of them will be cured. That we knew in 1920.

And then they got rid of it because, you know. Yeah, if it's not going with the grain of what's standard practice, then stamp it out, get rid of the medical license, silence anybody that's doing it their own way. Right. So that's the story of medicine right there. Yeah. Fundamentally, that was something that shifted the way I looked at certainly how I was treated as a kid. I followed a lot of the same, you know, I'm the same age as Aubrey Marcus. So standard of care was just drown yourself in antibiotics anytime you got a cold.

It's vastly different. I remember the first time my son had a major illness, cold, whatever you want to call that, and saying to my wife, like, hey, with what we've read, we're going to let this fever run and we're going to let that run it out of him. And I went through it with him. I even talked about it on a solo podcast, December of 2019, we sweat the bed every night for eight days straight. We changed our sheets every day for eight days straight. And afterwards we've been completely healthy like that. And that's it. Then he's six years old now. So something that you had talked about was once every seven years at these stages, we go through something like this and that's a natural form of our development. And if we allow

that process to take place, then we have a benefit health-wise for the rest of our lives for that. Whereas if we don't, we play whack-a-mole with our health, this leads to cancer or something else that we couldn't foresee. And by the way, this phenomenon I'm describing is completely documented in the peer-reviewed literature. This isn't Tom making this up. It is entirely consistent with the history of medicine going back, you know, 2,500 years, Hippocrates saying, give me a medicine to produce a fever and I can cure any disease. So this is not new. This is not, you know, Tom making this up. And you can find peer-reviewed studies. Here's 100 people, children or people with chickenpox, 100 people didn't get it.

The people with chickenpox, less cancer, less arthritis, less heart disease, less mental illness than the people who didn't have chickenpox or worse, had the expression of the chickenpox thwarted by so-called vaccines. All they do is poison you worse. So now you have a worse problem and you can't go through chickenpox. So now you just, you're what I call a misfit. Because this is how we, our soul, essentially, or our spirit, like working with clay, molds our physical body so that it fits properly. Now, modern medicine science says there is no such thing as a soul or a spirit. We're 100% only physical matter, which of course nobody believes. Because when I remember,

you know, hearing that in medical school once from a heart surgeon. So I said, so do you love your wife? He said, yes. With all your heart? Yes. So if I dissected your heart, you're going to find something called love in there, which is nonsense, right? There isn't anything called physical thing in there called love. Yet he believes exactly what he said 10 minutes ago he doesn't believe. Of course I believe there's love, and it's got to do with my heart, even though he just told me if it isn't physical, it doesn't exist. So the scientists, I use that word loosely because one of my favorite expressions is the trouble with science is it's not very scientific. But they say, espouse things, which they don't even believe. They don't live their life. You know, I've talked about this. If you think, not you,

but somebody thinks that the only thing that exists is substance, which is what we're taught in medical school. So did you choose your wife because she had 20 more sulfur atoms than the next woman? She's got a lot of sulfur. Yeah, not at all. Of course not. It's the intangibles. Right. But here's the thing. We're told intangibles don't exist. Your doctor thinks intangibles don't exist. Yet you essentially organized your entire life based on intangibles, right? The reason you bought this chair and not that chair is because it has a feeling of you like it better, it sits better, the quality is better, or it was made by somebody who you respect or something like that. Not because it has 50 more carbon atoms than the next year. That's the substance. Substance is,

I mean, it's not irrelevant because it is true that certain people probably do collect more sulfur than the next people, right? That may be true, but that's not how we think about life. Yet exactly that is how we're told we should do medicine and science, which is no surprise that it's totally messed up. It's just make-believe. Yeah, we are in uncharted territory. I don't necessarily understand how we went from having chickenpox parties where one kid gets it and then all the neighbor's kids come over to make sure they get it to become immune and to be good forever and to have all the other benefits that we're talking about that go long into the later stages of life to now avoid this stuff like the plague. Here's an interesting thing about that because I just did a whole webinar on that,

because a friend of mine, doctor, decided to look into, you know, if you go to the CDC website, what causes chickenpox, says the varicella zoster virus. So she then looked for a reference, right? You know, what paper identified this virus that caused chickenpox, right? Because that's not a felt experience, right? The experience is there's a certain symptoms in a child. And then sometimes, not all the time, somebody else will get the same symptoms. Right. That's the experience. I have I don't know anybody who's had the experience of I saw a virus. Right. Because that's not possible okay so the cdc gave a reference and it was the cdc's website and so there was no reference for who who fit who found the virus and so she goes back until

all the way back to i think was, was the only reference of somebody saying they found a virus and could transmit chickenpox through lesions, you know, vesicles of the skin. Otherwise, nobody has found a virus from anybody with chickenpox. Now, she read the study and found out that they took children with chickenpox, and they stuck a syringe in the bubble. And they squirted that on children who didn't have chickenpox, right? Because we're told it's highly contagious. And you know what happens? Nothing. So they squirted it in the air because we're told it's airborne and you easily get it. And you know what happened? Nothing. So then they, the next thing they made a laceration in the children's arms and they injected the, the unpurified goop from somebody with oozing chickenpox, right? That's not a virus. That's a lot of things.

And you know what happened? They got a red area around the laceration that they put the goop in, which, you know, if you do a control and you stick any kind of goop in somebody with a laceration, they'll typically get some redness, right? Because your body's trying to get rid of it. Otherwise, they could not demonstrate there was anything from a child that got another child sick with something called chickenpox. Not once. But yet, here's the interesting thing. We do have the experience that it's transmissible. Not always, but sometimes. So here's the question. What is the thing that's transmissible? Because it's not snot, and it's not goop from the oozing skin lesions. And I thought about this for a while.

And interestingly, I haven't seen a study on this, but my guess is if you took a person who died of chickenpox, they would not be able to transmit it to any other child. So the only transmissible agent is a living child with chicken pox. And anything else, the snot, the anything doesn't transmit it. So it must be something that I would call bioenergetic. In other words, like women who all menstruate at the same time, there's no virus. There's no chemical that we know. There's some sort of bioresonance that all living beings do, right? Again, if you understand what we're made of, which is, you know, water collection system that downloads information and transmits it to itself and other beings, then it makes sense. So this one child was transmitting a signal, I don't know how exactly, but somehow, to other children saying, if you have this maturation step that you need to go through, now's the time. Some children do it and some children don't. And that's the only transmissible agent.

And interestingly, you can sort that with a vaccine, meaning you can make them sick. And so they can't transmit. And so you think you've gotten rid of the disease. And all you've done is make all the children sicker. And that is exactly correlates, corresponds to the published peer-reviewed literature on the subject. That's exactly what happens. They get shingles earlier. They get other illnesses earlier in life. They've known about this for 30 years at least, and they do it anyways. Yeah. Mind-boggling is an understatement, but let's keep going. I know you were just about to touch on this. You dove deep into it with

Paul Cech and I absolutely loved it. It was one of the main topics I wanted to rehash. The difference between quality and quantity within science right now. And I think you're alluding to that as we come to a fundamental understanding of what we are beyond physical structure as a human being, much more so than what we can see and what we can quantify. studying in terms of health at large versus, you know, how, you know, jabs and everything else to try to combat something that may or may not even be there? Well, so the first thing we are fond of saying in science, the only thing that's real is things that can be measured, right? You've probably heard that. Meaning like it's an inch long or something. Now let's think about this. So I have this thing here. Now I can measure that right from here to here and let's say it's three inches now let me ask you a question is it actually three inches

meaning not 3.1 right yeah okay it's 3.1 Are you sure it's not 3.12? Yeah. Okay. 3. How about 3.1206? Yeah. Right.

Because the reality is there is no measurement of this. Because obviously, if you take it to a kind of absurd level, it's always another decimal point you can go. And then you have to say, screw it. You can't measure that thing. It's imaginary. Yet here it is. It's not imaginary.

I got it in my hand, which means that the whole, it turns out that which can be measured is actually imaginary. The measurement anyways, it doesn't represent anything real. But the whole phenomena of this thing is real. Just like if I said, how much do you weigh? Well, 196 pounds. Are you sure it's not 196.3? And so you don't have a weight. certain qualities and certain attributes, which we can almost agree on, or at least partially, and say, that's you. Now, the other thing I would say is, is if you take a person who's four, four years old, and they're playing, you know, etc. And then you go away. And then you go come back 20 years later, and they're now, you know, et cetera. And then you go away and then you go come back

20 years later and they're now a young man sitting on a bench, you know, playing in the park. And then they come back for 20 years and now they're 44, wife and kids. There's insane park and he's watching his wife and kids come back 40 years later. And he's now 80 is sitting like an old man on the bench. Right. You got it. That the same person. And one sense. Yes.

The whole, the whole time, same person. And then the other sense, no, he's completely changed each time you see him. Well, so let's dissect that a little bit. Every physical attribute of that, every physical molecule of that person is different-year-old that was there in the 4-year-old. Yet, I think I would disagree with you. There is nobody who has any sense who doesn't say that's the same person. That's the same person. I mean, I would insist that I am the same person I was when I was three years old. I mean, that's me. Obviously, I have different, I look different, and I'm different, but that's

still me. That, you know, there is a continuity there that we all understand and we all live our life with. Yet, it can't be a part of a physical attribute, because that's all different. Therefore, there must be something that's an organizing principle of the physical substance that is maintained in the entire life of the person. Everybody knows that because everybody would agree with that, even doctors. They're always the last to know. But, you know, even scientists would agree with that. Yet they have, and we would, most of us now, probably not scientists or doctors, would say that thing, even though we may not really know what we're talking about,

but we understand that it's there, right? We know what we're talking about, is by far the most important part of that entity, organism we call you. And because it, you know, it even has a thread. Like I was, you know, they called me Doubting Thomas when I was five. Because I didn't believe, you know. And it's the same you know not i'm a little more uh savvy about it now but not much it's the same and and you probably have the same thing right not the exact way that i did but you were the same that's the important part of you, not how many sulfur atoms you have.

And here's the irony. We don't think in modern medicine that that exists. And so the thing that everybody agrees is the most important part of you and I, your doctor thinks doesn't exist. So what use is he? He's a mechanic of the physical body. Only. And anytime that they get into anything to do with how you function or, you know, illness or cause or what happened to you, it's totally irrelevant because they have no conception of that.

And they don't want a conception of that. They get pissed at you and deride you and censor you. And if you even speak like I'm speaking, which as far as I can see, everybody agrees with. Right. There's nothing that I'm saying. No, no. There's nothing that's continuous of you your entire life. That's nonsense. Right? Nobody thinks that. It's ridiculous. Everybody knows that. Yet we can't talk about it. That's how you get a messed up science and medical system. One of the things that came up for me as you were beautifully articulating that was, you know, my understanding through a lot of direct experience with plant medicines and deep meditations and different things that gave me a direct experience of what someone might call source or the all consciousness or God or

spirit or any of that language is my own experience, but it is undeniable. It is realer than the reality of me talking to you right now through a computer screen and how a very large percentage of the population might understand that as intelligent design, as something that is animating me throughout my life. That is the thread that holds me and puts me together that animates all form. Native Americans called that animism. The soul in me is the soul in the tree and the soul in everything. That's what makes the whole thing work. And science appears to think that that might be our DNA, that that is the thing that intelligently designs my physical structure

and holds me together throughout my life. And you did a great job. Obviously, you've spoken about this many times, but this idea that when the Human Genome Project came out, they found a set number of things and said, okay, this is what makes us who we are. And then they realized the epigenetics were the driving factors. And what was driving the epigenetics was the environment, everything around that, the lifestyle, the food that we put in our body, the water that we drink,

the mental emotional that we have. If we're connecting ourself to social media every hour on the hour, or if we're actually being out in nature and communing with the natural world, those differences change the differences from the epigenetic on-off switches. And we are far more than our DNA. But even on the level of a scientist that believes we are the outcome of our DNA, that's far beyond what they stated is. What's actually making us tick and expressing our physical expression is far beyond a set number of things. I joke about this with Aubrey. We both did our

23andMes. Both of us have a predisposition for type 2 diabetes. Both of us have a predisposition for obesity. And I don't know if you've seen both of us with our shirt off, but neither one of us are going to ever see that manifest. And we are in control of our own destiny when it comes to genetic expression. I think that's something that people in the general population generally don't have a sense of is because of the fact that they've been told they've been handed a certain set of circumstances and, sorry, you're going to die of cancer. Sorry, you're going to die of obesity. Sorry, you're going to die of obesity. Sorry, this is going to happen because this is the hand you've been dealt. And yet none of that is true.

None of it's true. And there are no genetic diseases. And the whole 23andMe thing is a total crock. Because let me just, and I've never actually talked about this, although I'm going to talk about it tomorrow a little bit. So let's just go back a little bit. So what is DNA? It's a chemical.

What's the shape of it? Do you know? Everybody knows. The spiral lattice, right? of it? Do you know? Everybody knows. The spiral lattice, right? The ladder? Yeah, the double helix. Right. Now, next question.

Who came up with the idea that DNA is a double helix? Was it Crick and a couple others? Watson and Crick, right? So? Watson and Crick. Right. So most people know those steps. Next question. Have you ever read the original paper in nature, 1953, describing the double helix form of DNA? I have not. Nobody I know has ever read it except me and Andy Kaufman. He actually sent it to me.

Now, if you read that, the only thing you can say is, ah, this guy's making this up. Because there were so many things about it that just did not make sense. Like that word, you know, he said, well, the, the, the angles of rotation are about approximately about the way they should be, but actually not. And the numbers of, of base pairs, which should be one to one, you know, G and C should, there should be one G and one C, one A and one T. Well, they weren't exactly one to one, sort of like one. And so it turns out his wife had a vision of, of us of a serpent. And that's where he came up with it. Something like that. Now, here's the next thing it turns out substance like a chemical like dna doesn't

have a form and think about it if you look at what's the purest substance we know of it's like sand. What's the form of sand? Nothing. It's just a heap. You get sand, it just, you put wherever you put it, it doesn't have its own form. And I would contend that no substance has form except under two conditions. A, something imposes its will on it, or you mix it with water. You could say, well, what about my glasses? That's substance. But somebody may shape this substance into that form. The substance will never do that itself. So the DNA is a chemical which by definition can't possibly have a form. And so it's not a double helix. And in fact, but yet, you know, if you even look at people who do

ayahuasca ceremonies, and the history of medicine and science, it's a lot of it is entwined with images of double helixes and snakes, right? The symbol of the AMA is two snakes winding up, you know, and Pharaoh's crowns, you know, two snakes looks like, you know, like a double helix. And this image of the double helix comes up over and over again. It turns out that if you circulate water in a certain way, it forms exactly a double helix. And I could show it to you because I have an apparatus that does that. So it turns out that it's the shape of the water in us that creates this double helix, which then has the chemical DNA is basically part of the matrix. It's just being going along for the ride, so to speak.

So, and that water-based double helix creates its own what's called DNA water, which is like new water, which is the blueprint. It's the physical medium that's downloaded information, what you're calling epigenetics, which creates new forms, which creates you. That's how it works. And so it has nothing to do with these, you know, these genes, these DNA markers are just, you know, the chemical residue of that process, they control nothing because there's no substance that controls anything. We are energetic beings and the end of that energetic process is a chemical residue. And we've been duped and fooled into thinking the chemical residue controls our life. And it's nothing of the sort. The functional principle is this downloading of information through the water.

It does it because it actually is in the form of a double helix, which people have understood for thousands of years. This, you know, that's Jacob's ladder, the connection of heaven and earth. And if you're in a certain state, like using plant medicines, you have a direct experience of that, which apparently you did. And so you know that it's real. It's not your DNA. That is a materialistic myth. Well, this is brilliant. So I really appreciate it.

I'm getting quite a good education here just from talking to you. And I've already felt that for the years that I've been studying your work. I did a podcast with a brother of mine, Chervin Jafferriard, on Rudolf Steiner's, I forget the title of the book, but it's on Lucifer and Ahriman. And Steiner, of course, postulated that Ahriman would take birth in the physical form in the 21st century. Ahriman being representative of structure and us being just flesh and bone, this idea that we are not more than that. And I see that as a, it's amazing to see that, you know, this is from books written over a hundred years ago, these predictions coming to fruition.

As you're discussing this on the fact that we're not genetic beings and that we do have this lattice in Jacob's ladder that connects us to spirit, where do you see us being able to reconnect to that, knowing that there are structures in place and educational systems that have been in place for a long time that are um at least pointing us in a direction of just flesh and bone well that that to me is the gift of COVID. So I can give you an example, you know, because one of my real heroes and one of the people who's influenced me the most of just about anybody is a guy named Ivan Illich. I don't know if you know him, but I tell people, you haven't lived unless you've read and studied in detail Ivan Illich. He wrote a book called Deschooling Society, and he wrote a book on medical nemesis, you know, and a whole lot of other things.

And he had a way of thinking that I just is unparalleled in my experience. And he, you know, one of my main things I was really interested in is the whole phenomenon of school. He talked about radical monopolies. And we all know what a monopoly is. It's like there's only one company that makes spoons, right? So if you want a spoon, you have to buy it from, you know, general spoon company conglomerate. But that's just a regular monopoly, because if you don't want a spoon, you just don't buy it. Or you can make your own spoon out of wood or something. And so that those kind of monopolies, they're not great, but they're not so bad. But a radical monopoly is whether you like it or not, you are

being affected by that monopoly. And let me give you an example. And this was actually true because I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Swaziland. And years ago, they had a system of walking paths all over the country. So anybody could walk anywhere they wanted in the country, and they could take their cows and their goats and their sheep or ride a eventually ride a bicycle anywhere they wanted in the country on on these walking paths nobody needed to maintain them because they just walked on them and that maintained them and they were safe and easy and so then they had development came and they were given money and they spent millions of dollars building high speed roads along these paths, paved roads. Now, it turns out there's only about 100 people in the in the whole country who could afford cars.

Most of them were members of the royal family. And so next thing you know, you got all these members of the royal family driving 80 miles an hour on these paved walking paths, which means that they were unsafe for anybody to walk on. So not only did, so the whole enterprise deteriorated the quality of everybody's life, because not only couldn't they, they couldn't get around in cars because they didn't have a car, they didn't even walk on the on the on the pass. So they had to walk through the brush. And the whole thing got worse, whether you like it or not, or whether you Society, was a description of the worst radical monopoly at that time, I would argue maybe there's some worse ones now, was the phenomena of school. In order to be a brain surgeon, you have to go to school and get a license to get to be a brain surgeon. Instead of just anybody like you or I just setting up in our garage and saying, we're here, we'll cut your brain open and take that tumor out in our garage. Now, you could argue, well, that's a terrible example, because who would let somebody in their garage do brain surgery? But here's what would happen if I did that.

Hopefully, anyways, if you had symptoms and you needed a brain surgery, you would come to me and say, let me talk to the last 10 people you did brain surgery on. Because I want to see if you're any good at this, because if they all died, like I'm not going to do this with you. Well, I'm not going to show you my last 10 people, in which case you would be soon be out of business. And that would be a really good way to do this. In fact, I would encourage everybody to go to their neurosurgeon or their doctor. Let me see the last 10 people you treated with obesity or high blood pressure. What happened to them? I want to talk to them. No, I can't give out that information because it's confidential. And even if you take an example, you could say, well,

brain surgery, obviously, that's high risk, you know, you can hurt somebody. But even if you say, what about cutting hair? You can't cut somebody's hair in this country without going to hair cutting school and getting a license. Right? And I don't know anybody who's died from a bad hair day. I mean, you may have a bad day, but nobody, as far as I know, has dropped dead from a bad haircut. I've gotten a few myself, and mostly I was fine. So it's not about safety. It's about configuring society in a way that basically monopolizes how you think. And so that's the answer to your question. The real answer is we need to get rid of school, period. Which is why, you know, when I say the gift of COVID, I'm not, you know, belittling or something, you know, that people have died and, you know, there's

all kinds of tragic things. But we got ourselves in a situation which wasn't good before COVID, like, because we have school, which is a radical monopoly. And unless you go to school, and now that means unless you go to school, unless you spend 22 years, unless you get in debt $100,000, unless you submit to all the lies and misconceptions that they're going to teach you unless you uh unless you submit to being bored out of your gourd because you have to learn the same thing that this idiot learns in the same way from the same teacher who's said the same thing for 20 years unless you're willing to submit you can't be part of society. I mean, so now they say, in order for you to be a teacher, we're going to mandate you have a vaccine,

so-called vaccine. I say, great, because I want them all to quit. I'm quitting. You don't let me do what I want. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to. And Illich laid out a whole different way of, he wasn't against education. Right? There's different and you know even if you think of it on a practical level if if steph curry announced tomorrow that he's going to have a group of 20 people 20 14 year old people children come and learn how to how to shoot a basketball. You know how many people would want to go to that?

Everyone and their mom. Gazillions. You know how many discipline problems he would have at that event? Zero, probably. Zero, because if somebody got out of line, right, they were, like, messing up, the other 19 children would say, you shut up and get out of here. We're going to like beat the crap out of you or something. Because we want to, if he can't teach us what

he wants, right? You know, that's why we're here. And it would eliminate discipline problems, it would eliminate, you know, nobody would misbehave or not want to be there or not pay attention. They would feel like, yeah, this is amazing. This guy knows how to shoot a basketball for whatever reason I want to do that. Or it could be reading crime and punishment. It could be building a tree fort. It could be building a tree fort. It could be building a transistor radio. It could be learning past lives. It could be finding ayahuasca or comfrey root, or it could

be anything. You get the people who, who wants to know this? I mean do i want to learn how to find comfrey root okay this guy spent 20 years doing it he's willing to offer it and maybe even gets credit or some money or something food and he says meet me at two o'clock on friday in the comfrey group patch and the people who do, I mean, everybody would learn so much more. And then if you got to the point where, okay, I want to learn how to build a race car. And this guy knows, you know, a box car and he go to them and he says, you do this and you measure and you take the square root of this and you say, oh, I never did math class. You know, I don't know anything about math. And he says, well, you can't build a tree for it because you don't know how to measure and add. I can guarantee that seven-year-old boy would go

home to his parents and say, you teach me how to do math by next week or I'll find somebody who will. Right? Yeah. Ultimate buy-in. I want to build that tree for it. And this guy said he'd teach me, but he says, I don't know anything about arithmetic and I can't do that unless I figure that out. And Illich did this in Guatemala and proved that he could teach anybody to read fluently in six weeks, but only if he, if what they were reading was the contract between them and their landlords who are trying to screw them out of their, basically their land. But if he taught them how to read that contract,

they'll read in six weeks, everybody, because they want to know what you know so they have a better life. And that works with, it can be anything. You could, you know, Mary Shelley's poems. I don't even know if Mary Shelley had poems, but I think so. You know, there's people who are interested in that. And that's the answer to your question. Why do we teach nonsense? Because we have school. And the gift of COVID is if we see this properly, we don't go marching for, you know, so that they don't have mandates so we can go back and teach school, right? It's okay. Get rid of the school. Get rid of the doctors in the healthcare system. You want to get rid of all this stuff that's not working and creating dysfunctional,

you know, enslaved society, and we'll be a lot better off. Now, whether that's going to happen out of this or it's just going to be, you know, more and more downtrodden people who are more and more compliant, I have no idea. But that's what I want to see. I want to see that too. And it's funny you mentioned this because I what it's worth getting esoteric, I recently had an experience with some plant medicine where I saw two paths and it was similar to the Hopi prophecy in that those with their heads disconnected from their bodies see themselves outside of this sacred hoop or the earth, whatever you want to call that. And those with their heads connected to their body and their feet connected to the earth, walk a straight path forward into the

next stage of human consciousness. And it just kept reiterating that for me, that it is a straight path when we are connected to the earth and connected to ourselves. And if we know ourselves and we come to understand health in our own way and connection to source in our own way, that it's not challenging. It's not difficult. It doesn't mean that the world around us does not change or that we don't brush up against challenges. That's certainly, I mean, we're in a fucking sea of it right now. But those that are connected

will walk a straight path forward. And it's something that I, whether it happens or not, I love leaning on it because it gives me a breath of fresh air and a little bit of peace and comfort inside, especially having little ones, knowing that if we do this correctly, that we do get to march forward. And I don't need to live in fear around mandates and things of that nature. You know, we had Baron at school last year. He's our oldest. He's six.

That did. No masks. I didn't even need a piece last year. He's our oldest. He's six. That did. No masks. I didn't even need a piece of paper. There was no notarized signed thing that said, these are the reasons I don't wish to give him a jab. And that school was awesome. But even still, we're going to homeschool this year and be on some land next year. And I think that biodynamic farming and i would urge you to get rid of the word even homeschool there's no school no school you're just doing life and if he wants to know how to do a garden just like any other human being you you you don't even teach him. You just do a garden and he'll say, hey, how do you, you know, why do you put the carrot seed in that way? You say, well, I don't know, or it grows

better or something, you know, and I wouldn't even try to teach him anything. If he wants to know something, he'll ask you. Otherwise, he'll just watch. And that's how I learn. That's probably how you learn. And if you have something that you don't know, like, why do you put, you know, use the fork and not hold it by the tines and you hold it by the handle, you say, try holding it by the other way, see what happens. Well, it jabs in your hand, and it doesn't dig very well because the handle part doesn't go in the soil. And he'll never do that again. It doesn't work.

That really resonates. As you say it, we've been going to Muay Thai class and jiu-jitsu for a while. And in Muay Thai, it's pretty new. He's only gone to a few classes. But the way they teach is they'll say like, hey, hands by your face. And after they say it a couple of times and he's still not putting his hands by his face, they go like this. They throw a punch and they bring it right back to where he wants it. And then they hold his hands right there by his face and he goes, okay. And he never makes the same mistake again. Right? It's the ability to view it first, to see it in another person, and then never makes the same mistake again. Right? It's the ability to view it first,

to see it in another person, and then to have the physical structure put in the place where it's supposed to be. And then, bang, he's got it. And he wants to be there, right? So that's the real rub, is that he wants to learn. You watch animals and they make a mistake

and they get hurt or they get, you know, scared and they never do that again. Because they know that's, you don't have to teach them. They understand that that's not the way this works. And, you know, they have an instinctual understanding, as do people. That's not the way this works. And sometimes they may ask you, like know how do you do it how do you do something like that and then you tell them otherwise i wouldn't even bother it's not school

don't even call it homeschool because then school then you get a degree and then you get a degree, and then you get a degree in order to do stuff. And like Illich said, one of my favorite quotes from him was, school is the process of, if you do well in school, you get the dubious privilege of being able to consume more school until you've consumed a sufficient amount of school that the only people you can talk to are people who've consumed a sufficient amount of school that the only people you can talk to are people who've consumed a similar amount of school. That sums it up. That's exactly virologists. They've consumed so much school

that the only people they can talk to are other virologists nobody else understands what the hell they're talking about and they they talk nonsense but they all speak the same language of nonsense so they think it's it's actually good because they get paid a lot of money and that's how it works. This has been absolutely incredible. I love your work. Thank you so much for your time.

I definitely want to have you back on here as time permits down the road because there's no doubt we're going to continue to see things unfold here and it's an exciting time to say the least. But I really appreciate your knowledge and wisdom throughout all of this. It has helped fortify our stance on what health actually is and the best path to going forward with all the decisions, big important decisions being made in the world right now as it pertains to ourselves and our family. So thank you. I really appreciate you, Tom. Okay. Take care. I really appreciate you, Tom. Okay. Take care.

Alrighty. Thank you.