Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #231 Garret Kramer

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

Garrett Kramer on paper is a mindset coach, but there is much more to him than you know. He founded a company called Inner Sports and has worked with some of the biggest names in high achievers. We dive into his personal background and some personal sovereignty, surprise surprise. This conversation was such a blessing. Please reach out to him and go follow his new Instagram.  Connect with Garrett:   Website: garretkramer.com  Instagram: @garretkramer19917  Sponsors:   Optimal Carnivore Absolutely the most nutrient dense food source is organ meats. Head over to optimalcarnivore.com to get them in capsule form and use code “KINGSBU10” for a sweet deal Upgraded Formulas from our boy Barton Scott!! Get your mineral levels figured out and head to www.upgradedformulas.com, punch in “KKP15” at checkout and get 15% off your order including the hair mineral test! Eaton Hemp Head over to eatonhemp.com to get my favorite hemp based food and wellness products around. Use “KINGSBU” at checkout for 20% off! Inside Tracker track your genetic datapoints and let these folks help you optimize your life at info.insidetracker.com/kkp use code “KKP” for 25% off for a limited time. Connect with Kyle:   Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service Academy  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys   Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com  Zion Node: https://getzion.com/ > Enter PubKey  >PubKey: YXykqSCaSTZNMy2pZI2o6RNIN0YDtHgvarhy18dFOU25_asVcBSiu691v4zM6bkLDHtzQB2PJC4AJA7BF19HVWUi7fmQ   Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Clappy Clappy in the housey house You know I used to get annoyed when Aaron Alexander would do that Aaron if you're listening, Aaron likes to sing a lot When he's walking around the house He also sings a lot in the intros to his podcast And it's something that initially was like What the fuck is this guy doing? And then I realized as I do that, it brings a little spark of joy.

It's like a revamp. It's like a key bump of pleasure and happiness. So sorry if it annoys you. I'm just explaining myself because if there's anyone out there like me, they're probably like, what the fuck is this dude doing singing in the intro? Anywho, redirect, refocus. We've got a phenomenal podcast today with a guy named Garrett Kramer. Garrett Kramer is the founder of Innersports. For over 25 years, he has provided consulting services for athletes, coaches, actors, and business leaders.

And he has conducted workshops. He just had one out here in Austin, which I missed, unfortunately. But my buddy who introed us, Zach Kassler, said it was phenomenal. Retreats for teams, organizations, universities, and schools credited with bringing the direct path of self-exploration to the high-performance and sports communities. Garrett is now sharing with global

audiences his unique take on self-exploration and non-duality, as well as their implications for a more harmonious world. And he's been featured in all the fucking big names, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, Fox, all that good stuff, ESPN, Bobby. He actually took a path similar to Happy Gilmore.

He was a legit hockey player and then got into golf, was a legit golfer and super rad. You know, I absolutely had a blast with Garrett on this podcast. Garrett, one of the main reasons I wanted to have him on was because of, you know, the way it was worded to me from Zach was that he had a firm understanding on the nature of consciousness and non-duality and had a firm understanding on the world as it is right now and sees things very similar to the way that I do. So I love this. I like grabbing people from all walks of life to really bring in their medicine and their wisdom.

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InsideTracker, which is super dope. Let me tell you what I love about these guys. I did a blood work, a blood draw with them where they came to my house and drew blood. And I believe that's available to everyone, not just because I'm some special dude in Austin, Texas. They go to your house, they do a house call for blood work, super convenient. And you get a home test kit for DNA. You send that in. Then when your results come in, you open the InsideTracker app and you fill out a couple of questionnaires. They use machine learning to learn about you and you say what your goals are. Then they look at your genetics and your blood, where you're at in real time, and they help you achieve those goals. So something personal for me, I have some elevated HDL. They said you could add various parts to your diet, change that up a

certain way with more omega-3 fatty acids, lower your omega-6 fatty acids, and do a bit more cardio. Well, that's true. I have not been doing cardio for about six months, and I don't know that I'm going to change that. So I better change my diet if I want to get that right. But needless to say, there's a ton of great things that you'll figure out as you really dive deeply into what is uniquely you. It's been said many times on this podcast that there's no one-size-fits-all approach to diet, and there's no one-size-fits-all approach to looking at your blood and trying to get your body right. But when you combine all these things, and you combine the different factors that are lifestyle-related with food relation,

as we talk about the four doctors, Paul Cech, Dr. Diet, Dr. Movement, Dr. Quiet, Dr. Happiness, when you can land those four things in right relation and you take your genetics and your blood into account, you can do amazing things. And for a limited time, InsideTracker is going to give you 25% off everything at the InsideTracker store. Check it out, InsideTracker.com backslash KKP. That's InsideTracker.com backslash KKP, code word KKP. And without further ado, my man, Garrett Kramer is on the show. Give us a little clap here for audio. Garrett Kramer, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate your time. A mutual friend of ours, Zach Kassler, told me I had to have you on. And I said, I remember asking, I was like, well, tell me a little bit about him. And he said, well, you know, he's pretty much taken a deep dive into all things consciousness. He understands the inner workings of the universe and he's worked with a lot of high profile athletes, but now it's more about the connection to the inner world. And, of course, he knows exactly what time it is when it comes to the modern narrative and everything that we're facing in society today.

I was like, yo, all right, sign him up. Let's do it. Okay. That's a nice compliment. I appreciate that. I take that as a supreme compliment. Very cool. Well, just having given that short bio, tell us a little bit about

your life. What was life like growing up? Where did you grow up and what got you started on the path? Was it optimization and peak performance? I mean, really what I want to weave is basically how'd you stumble into the world of spirit and consciousness and really understanding how things actually are? Stumble, stumble is the perfect word. I grew up in a pretty much a single parent family. My father was a hard driving coach, disciplinarian. And like my father, I think I was blessed with a certain amount of athletic skill and I became an all state, uh, ice hockey player in New Jersey, two time, all state first team, all state hockey player went on to play at Hamilton college. Not too

many people back in 1980, when I graduated from high school from New Jersey were playing college hockey. So I was kind of broke the mold with that a little bit to a certain extent. I also, when I stopped playing hockey, I picked up the game of golf and within three years I was playing in the United States amateur against the best college players in the world, including Mickelson and a bunch of other PGA players that people would know. And I had some success there. So I, I, however, I, I think I had mistakenly based my so-called success on the ice or on the golf course to my hard work.

And I was pretty much, I was considering maybe giving it a run at the PGA Tour. I was 27 in 1989. And someone suggested, obviously, I'm giving you the real condensed reader's digest version oh yeah i don't want to bore anybody with my personal life this is awesome this is yeah i i i i'm thinking of giving it a run to the pga tour and i it was suggested by somebody i can't remember who that i go down to virginia to see this renowned sports psychologist. His name is Bob Rotella. He's still around and he's a heck of a nice guy. So I said, oh, maybe this guy has the answers for me. I can really take it to the so-called next level. Now, I had kind of hid away the fact that we had sports psychologists visit us

in college to work with our team. And every time one did, I walked out of the room. Like I literally could not take what they were telling me. So things like, you know, you got to do this and that to clear your head. You ought to have a clear mind to be successful. You got to take deep breaths. You got to do all this stuff. And I just found it to be just nonsense. Now, right or wrong, I didn't know that I was right. It didn't matter. It just didn't seem right for me. But I had kind of forgotten about that. And I thought that somebody like Dr. Rotella could provide me the answers. So I made an appointment with him. He knew of me because this story, it was kind of of people found it cool that this this guy who never really played golf within just a couple of years was playing at the highest level of amateur golf now i'm playing

against mostly college players but at that point the best college players in the country and i was 27 but it was unusual that a guy would qualify for the u.s amateur like i did without having much much tournament experience at all and I had played in some state amateurs and metropolitan New York amateurs and opens qualified for those and done pretty well also so but I was it still was a little bit of a I was an outlier you know outlier at this point because I just I I wasn't I didn't grow up playing golf anyway went down to uh see Dr. Rotella in his house in Virginia and sat on his couch in his living room. Now this is a two day kind of two day intensive or whatever you want to call it.

And I was immediately thrown back to the sports psychologist that had visited our locker room or a team room in in college and literally after the morning session i went to a phone in the room where i was staying because there's no cell phones whatever this was 89 and i called uh my fiancee at the time who's my wife all these years later and i said hey babe i'm out of here she goes no you can't this guy's like the he's he's working with all these great players all these guys are winning you who are you what do you think you are like you're such a dick like what are you doing and i'm like i don't give a shit like this is just mumbo jumbo and it's making me crazy like i'm getting fidgety i can't take it so she goes would you just stay for the afternoon for me, at least.

I'm like, okay, babe, I'll stay for the afternoon. All right. So now I want to just repeat though that Dr. Rattel, you couldn't have a nicer man than him. I'm not, there's nothing wrong with him. There is something, however, in my opinion, wrong with the paradigm from which she teaches, but that's, I'm not blaming him for that. That paradigm

has been in place for many years. And you're going to see the correlation to that, to where we are now with the COVID narrative in the short amount of time, you'll see that. But I sat down for the afternoon and it was more of the same. Like literally, what am I doing here? Like what am I doing here? I could be hitting balls practicing. This is just crazy. And finally, um, pretty much knowing I was going to leave after the first day, I said, Dr. Rital, I need to ask you a question, anything, Garrett, anything. And I said, well, is the, is the point of me being here for you to help me to have a clearer head so I can play better golf? And he says, yes, that's exactly the point. I said, well, then I have another question for you.

Sure, whatever. What's the question? I said, well, if you want me to clear my head, why are you giving me so many things to think about and do? And he literally did not have an answer to that question. So in other words, he wants me to have a clear head. How in the world am I going to get a clear head when my mind is racing with all the different things and stories and personal antidotes and mental techniques and all this stuff that he's talking about? I felt the exact opposite. So he couldn't answer the question. And what I think I hope respectfully,

it's a long time ago, I said, listen, I'm going to take off. And I paid him, you know, whatever it was, $2,000 that I didn't even have. And I got on the road and I made sure that I was about two hours towards New Jersey where we lived before I found a payphone and called Liz, my fiance, because I knew if I was close, she'd have me turn around again. I was already down the road. She couldn't say turn around. I was, you know, six hour drive. I was two hours towards home. And the other thing that happened is when I finally

did get home, I said to her, I'm going to bag golf. I'm done with this. What are you talking about? I said, I'm going to teach people what I know about the mind and performance. And she's like, what? You don't know anything. I said, no, actually, I realized sitting with Dr. Rattel that I actually know a lot. And I think I really, something hit me very clear. And I think that we could really help mainly young uh performers not only athletes but but theater and actors musicians and we could really maybe flip the paradigm from a a paradigm of

imparting things to do and information to a paradigm of letting the system self-correct letting the system do it what it's meant to do. Just like, I wouldn't say this now, but I wrote about it early on in my career. And what I said to Liz, I don't have the exact words, long time ago, but the point I was making was just like the body will self-correct, if we don't poison it, if we let it be, it will work toward health. The same thing with the so-called mind, the mind will fix itself. And everyone has experience of that. We all have experience of something troubling us terribly. And then the next day, or maybe a week later, whatever it is, it's like, oh, what was I worried about? I'm cool. And that is because what

i realized was these things that the sports psychologist was giving us to do when i was playing college hockey and then the things that bob wanted me to do were jamming the system so to speak it was just adding and peace of mind comes from subtracting, subtracting these layered beliefs that we kind of accumulate from society. And Liz is looking at me like, what the hell happened to you? And I'm like, babe, I really have no idea how I know this. Like literally, I just think there's something to it. And we started a company called Intersports. And Intersports was a company in Morristown, New Jersey. It still is. It's not real. I'm not, it's not really that active anymore, but I, I had a pretty close to a 28 year career in the world of performance, um, teaching athletes. And we had some good runs in sports

like hockey and golf and baseball and football, basketball, and also working with actors and actresses and musicians and traveling all around the world uh sharing what i thought could possibly be a new paradigm when it comes to the mind and um and and performance and lo and behold at that then as i kept exploring this insight that I had, more of my own conditioned beliefs started to become stripped away. Because as I told you, my father had really imparted this disciplinary and dictatorial style. And really, I think that quest to be so perfect and all these beliefs around positive thinking and all kinds of routines in order to find, to distract yourself or stuff like this, I realized that, you know, I just got to be myself. And I want to teach people, mainly young people, just to be themselves and understand that whether

they're thinking poorly or thinking negatively or thinking positively that neither really matters because everyone knows that they've done some really cool things when they've been in a really dark place. And when they've been in a really great place, they've done some really shitty things. So they're really, what are we doing? What are we searching for? It doesn't make any sense. And I think the whole self-help field to a large extent is built on, you know, this is a pretty direct word, but built on a lie, a lie that we're broken, that we lack, and we need some expert to make us whole. And I did my best to shatter that belief system. Of course, as a young guy who just broke in and didn't really, well, I cared, but it didn't stop me.

I had the world of sports psychology constantly attacking me, calling me a fraud, calling me, I didn't know what I was talking about. I had no degree. And in a funny way, Kyle, that prepared for for the onslaught of the critics during now i mean you know so so it kind of prepared me to be able to handle that without too much angst and um and insecurity now the spiritual side is interesting because the spiritual side was always in the back of my mind but i to be honest, I kind of pushed it away incorrectly, mistakenly, being concerned that that would turn people off to a certain extent. And it wasn't until about 12 years ago now that a National Hockey League player was sitting in my office in the summer and came to see me for

a couple of days and literally called me out for not going all out into the fact that I am really pointing toward consciousness and source and home and away from the materialistic paradigm. And he really said, you've got to, you're, you're, you're, you've got to knock it off because you're, you're not being true to yourself. And I literally, uh, heard him, loved him. Um, um, to this day, he's a very important part of my life in my person in my life. And, um, that from that day, I, day, I woke up and I said, you know, one of two things is possible. There's one of two perspectives that we see the world. And this is where it's going to get a little bit fuzzy at first, for for the audience so

i got i got fuzzy listeners so i appreciate the opportunity to just go for it and and these two perspectives are this the perspective is we are seeing the world from the perspective of a body a a separate self, I might call it, an individual. That is the commonly held perspective, obviously. Or we're seeing the world from the perspective of what I would call, I call it that, but many spiritual teachers do, the true self, consciousness, God's infinite being. And if we are seeing the world from the perspective of a body, that then means that the things that I see, the objects that I experience are happening separate from me,

outside of me, or at a distance from me. If I'm seeing it from the perspective of, let's just use the word consciousness, then the things that I experience are happening within me, known by me, made of me. Now, only one of those perspectives can be true. And I would argue that the only thing that I know for sure that is true now to be clear just as a quake there's a little bit of an addendum here anytime you put words to truth it's no longer truth but doing the using words the only thing we know is true I know is true sorry is that all objects arise within me, made of me, known by me. It is actually impossible

for objects to appear separate from me or at a distance from me or outside of me. And I'm not asking you or anyone else to believe that. I don't want you to believe that. I want you just, I would love for people just to explore that for themselves and I think it'll freak people out and At the same time it'll be like how did I miss this?

How the fuck did I miss this and I think that when I saw that It it really truly enabled me to be free. And then, as Jesus said, to be in the world or to jump back into the world, but not be of the world. Be in the world, but not of the world. I am consciousness and I can jump back into this apparent world within me knowing that nothing could damage me, consciousness. That ultimately was why, going back to when I was 27, I played such good golf and I had no right to play such good golf because I didn't care. I was in that environment totally free of consequence. I was infinite and eternal and nothing could damage me, not a bad shot, not a loss, nor could a win ingratiate me or aggrandize me or make me

hot chip. So I started, this occurred to um luckily because of that player and i started taking this understanding to the world of sport and i was trepidatious about doing it and i and lo and behold i found that players young people mainly kyle really related to it like whoa you know they had these experiences of like lying in their bed when were, I think we've all had it. Like say when we're seven years old, we lie in our bed and say, man, there's got to be something more about this experience of being alive. This just doesn't add up. But what we do is we push it under the rug because it's just too weird. But I came to the point where I didn't care about pushing under the rug and I just went for it.

And my best work clearly has been in the last 12 years. And I'm happy. And that work has then taken me all over the world, not really working with people, but more or less just to speak to groups about consciousness. And, you know, the thing I have going for me, I think, to a certain extent is I don't look like and carry myself like a guru or like some dude wearing robes and a thing on your head. I'm just a standard athlete, dumb jock, who lived that life. And I can write pretty decent, so I can write books as I've done. But I think that people relate to that. And when you start talking about this and you just ask people to not believe what you say, to A, don't believe a word I say, and I don't want this audience to believe anything I say, and B, and I'll say it to you, if anything I say doesn't make sense to you, stop me on the spot and say, hey, gee, I need you to explain this because if we don't do that, if you don't do that, or if an audience doesn't

do that, then after that point where confusion sets in, everything downstream from that becomes not a shared learning experience, but becomes indoctrination because I'm just throwing stuff at you and you have no idea what's going on. And it's just next thing you know, the true self is veiled with, with information that you don't understand. And that's the worst thing that we can do. So, um, I like, I like, uh, self inquiry and discussion and shared, um, questions. And, um, that's really what I built my career on over the last 12 years, just flying around the world and having meetings where we just, uh, do deep dives into who we truly are or consciousness. So, I mean, I had a, it's not, I've, you know, I've read a lot of Ram Dass and different great teachers and they've all pointed me towards those directions. It was actually an experience

for me with 5-MeO-DMT at the end of last year, about a year ago. Pretty close to a year ago from today, as we're recording this, that I went through an initiation with that medicine. And that has a unique ability to reactivate itself at night. So while you're laying down, getting ready to go to bed, it's like you just decided to jump back in. And I'd close my eyes and sometimes have a six-hour experience. Now, this wasn't the light side of my experiences that I'm used to. This was some of my worst fears ever unlocked and then lived and experienced throughout the night.

And it ended up being one of the most challenging experiences of my life. I thought I was going insane because I could not witness myself other than one. And it almost felt like everyone I see is a fiction of my imagination or to use video game terminology that they're all non-player characters. Now, Paul Levy, who I've had on the podcast, actually describes this really well

in his book, Dispelling with Tico, as me disease, you know, malignant egophrania, me disease. So everything is me, me, me. Now, that's not what we're talking about here. What you're bringing to light is the greater truth that we are all one. Unfortunately, I couldn't, I mean, fortunately, I could not look away from that. And thankfully, I was able to go back to bed at night without reactivating the psychedelic experience. And then slowly, you know, my mind did course correct back to this noble truth.

And it's unforgettable. I think the reason I had to sit with that for 17 nights was to make it unforgettable, to make it a point that no matter how much my ego wants to hold on to every idea of myself as important or anything for that matter, good or bad, it shattered that. Talk a bit about how you came to understand this because it, you know, for for me it's not something i could read and fully grasp i mean readers were like pointers you know and any any great literature was like hey this is pointing you in the right direction even eckhart tolle says that in a new earth it was the felt direct experience that changed me going forward only direct experience will will be true we'll tell that we'll tell the tale of truth. So such an important point. I think for me, what happened was I had kind of learned incorrectly

that spirit and God and consciousness were more of a felt experience. And I don't disagree with that, but what I mean by that, I was pointed towards feelings and away from logic. And for some reason, I don't remember how this happened, I said to myself, you know, you just got to reason this out. You got to, come on, man, you got to, like, is this logical that I can be a separate self in truth? And I started to go through these, like you lying in bed, I'm like thinking, okay, let's think about this. And I mean, think, I'm not, I'm not one who says don't use the intellect or whatever,

because it's all the same shit. Right. So like, and I, what I come to find out is spirit is logical. It's not a woo or belief for sure. For sure. It's not belief. Just to believe is to not know. So let's reason this thing out. Okay. So some, I went through now, I've said this a lot. So this isn't exactly probably how it happened, but you know how over the years, but it was something along the lines of, okay, let's just reason this out, man. If we're going to look at direct experience and only direct experience, we're going to live from direct experience. Okay, cool.

Then, and not belief, not what someone else says, not what's written in the book, as you said, direct experience. What is my experience telling me? Okay. My experience is telling me that nothing has ever been found outside of the universe. Now I'm using the universe now as a metaphor for consciousness. Okay. Like a practical word for consciousness. Okay. So nothing is that we know of in our experience has ever been found outside of the universe. Okay. I don't think anyone could disagree that we're not saying that there isn't an outside. We're saying we don't know of it. So we have to stick with our experience and our experiences of all things arise and fall or arise and dissolve within

consciousness or the universe. Okay. That makes sense. Yep. Okay. So therefore, therefore all things, as you indicated are one with the universe.

That makes sense. So then wait, if all whirlpools arise and dissolve within the sea and are one with the sea to a, to a more important point, aren't all world pools made of the sea like shit right so materialism the materialistic paradigm the idea that you are separate from me or one world pool is separate from the other is just an illusion it's all the friggin sea it's all the sea All objects are made of the universe or consciousness. So wait a second, if that's the case, who am I? Who am I? I can't be a separate

object because separate objects are illusions made of the universe or consciousness or God's infinite being. So I must be the universe. It's just logic. Matter of fact, it's the most logical thing I've ever said in my life. I am having this conversation from the perspective, not of a whirlpool in the sea. How can I be something that comes and goes? I'm always here. I don't come and go. I must be the sea. I must be the universe. I must be consciousness. And when I saw that, everything flipped. I was like, oh my God, Kyle shares my being. That's love. That's peace. That's happiness. Wow, we have this so wrong. We have it so backward. And from this faulty starting point, everything from there is going to be wrong, backward. We've created a

materialistic paradigm. We live from a materialistic paradigm. The foundation of our culture is a lie. We've created a culture of conflict, of disunion. So no wonder we can't get out of our own way. And quite frankly, what's happening in the world right now is a reckoning. We've got to clean this shit up because we're not going to sustain this. This is a lie cannot sustain. And we, the foundation of our society, I am here and you are there, is not true. It simply isn't.

Now, again, I don't want people to believe me. I don't want anyone to believe this. I just want people to explore for themselves, especially young people to explore for themselves because every young person including you and me it's a tipping point where their inner knowing i am whole because i am the whole consciousness starts to conflict with the do's and don'ts of our culture and we sit on that and this is why it happens in the teenage years, people start to cope, they turn to illicit substances, or activities, or relationships, whatever, and because their eye and consciousness starts to become veiled, and it's a torturous time, and this is what you were going through in bed to a certain extent that, you know, for 17 days. But what happens is, sadly, these young people are pointed further out toward the world

of objects for relief. And thus the cycle becomes even worse because you can't find relief in an object. Relief is only found when we stop seeking objects. Of course, consciousness doesn't even know what the word seeking would mean. Consciousness doesn't seek. So it's very important, especially for young people, to first of all tell them there's nothing bad about it, as you kind of knew, even though it was torturous. And I'm not saying it doesn't kind of rear its ugly head later in life, so to speak. It does. And that's the ego kind of, even though it was torturous and and i'm not saying it doesn't kind of rear its ugly head later in life so to speak it does and that's the ego kind of as you said trying to kick hold on for dear life of course but at that initial point of of oh um a young person stops expressing who they are in the world peace love happiness passion freedom and they start seeking who they are in the world, peace, love, happiness, passion, freedom, and they start seeking who they are in

the world, peace, love, happiness, freedom. And the minute they stop expressing who they are and stop seeking who they are, suffering mounts. And we do crazy ass things when suffering, when we think we can relieve suffering, be it spiritually or physically with an object. And that is clearly what is happening right now with the vaccine and that whole, and pharma. And this is why, just to dive into that real quick, it was very obvious to me early on that something was seriously wrong with the, with this narrative, this COVID narrative. Yeah, I had, I had, I don't know. I think my first deep dive into really seeing the world differently was through Paul Cech's book, How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy, where I,

so much was laid out from just from big agriculture and big pharma in a way where I really understood the government as not a protective agency, but one that was a giant corporation and run by corporations. You know, that was back in 2012. And then of course you rehash 9-11, things like that as you're older. And it's like, oh yeah, okay.

2008, the housing crash. You know, I think Inside Job is one of my favorite documentaries on that, but there's many that have been made and books that have been written. So those all kind of lined up. And in addition to that, I had already done a pretty deep dive into health and wellness, not only for myself with performance in the UFC, but really into my kids. I wanted to know, like, we have some pretty big decisions to be made. The second my wife and I got pregnant with our first child and we started diving into Dr. Thomas Cowan's work

and, you know, a lot of Weston A. Price and the Price Foundation and, you know, Sally Fallon and the books that she had written and so much, you know, Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, people who wound up on the dirty dozens list were people that my wife and I had followed for years in learning about what is true health and wellness. How do we live in right relation with the earth and with our bodies and within our communities? And what does that look like? And then of course, you know, it's this, there's nothing new that's been written opposing. There's, there's some of the things, the most valuable truths have been written

that oppose this, this paradigm thousands of years ago. You know, one that I, that I keep bringing up to people is, are you born in the image and likeness of God or not? And to really sit with that, I think makes it very apparent. Are we at odds with nature? First of all, are we separate from nature? That's a big part of this conversation. If we're not separate from nature, then are we at odds with ourselves? Are we at odds with nature? And if as long as nature's not out to get us, then do we have to continue to figure out things in a lab and prepare ourselves? If the only way I can live on this planet

is to take an injection for something ahead of time before running into it in the real world, that's no way to live. I mean, just from that perspective alone, let alone like this, the laughable, hey, the first one didn't work, you need a second one. Hey, now we need boosters. Oh, guess what?

Now they've got alpha, beta, theta, delta, phi, kappa, and they're all coming out. The next 16 different variables that we all have to take three shots for. I mean, once again, seeing it, it's like it becomes theater, really. It's a circus show. But there's so many people

that were not able to connect those dots because they didn't see it ahead of time from a different avenue, whether that was big agriculture or any of these other things that are going on where we're seemingly at odds with nature. We need to spray the ground with hundreds of thousands of tons of chemicals each year just to eat food. No, that's not right either, right? So I guess what I'm proposing is for you to see

the writing on the wall. And obviously, you've taken, as we all have, anybody who's been speaking the truth through the last 18 months has been taking a lot of heat for this. But where is it you see that people are missing the mark on being able to make this available to them where they can say, you know what, I'm going to let this in. I'm going to try this on for a moment and see how this feels. Yeah, I think there's two real significant benchmarks I can point to, but ultimately the second one is going to be the, I kind of touched on it already, but I'm going to explain it in a different way, that the second one is going to be the real goods.

But let's touch on, and you mentioned Tom Cowan, and you'll know what I'm going to say with his work with Andrew Kaufman about viral theory. So I think viral theory, contagion theory, germ theory, whatever word you want to use, I don't really care. I actually don't love germ theory because I think it comes with a bunch of,

it's just a little loaded, but be that as it may. We are, in my mind, Kyle, we're never going to get out of this mess, the mess of pharma ruling the world, provided that viral theory or contagion theory is the basis for medicine. Now, I get even criticized sometimes by people who are on our so-called side of the fence. They think it's a step too far for people to suggest that viruses aren't contagious. Okay. Now, and I firmly, I love those guys, but I firmly disagree with that.

I firmly disagree with it because as long as we, the basis for our, for medicine is human beings are vectors of disease, walking vectors of disease. Then they've got us, they've got us because even, even the medical freedom community for the most part is still caught up in that theory. And I'm stressing the word theory because it's a theory. It's not a fact.

And not only that, it's not true. It's simply not true. Now, you know, Tom and Andy, those people, they can go into this better than me. But as soon as I heard actually a guy in australia tom barnett talk about this another awesome dude you know who he is tom barnett yeah i've watched a couple of his videos he's fantastic love him like just just love the guy like i saw tom talk i'm like boom and as soon as i saw it i'm like holy shit that's right i knew this i'm like i know that's true of course and if you think about the consciousness only model that i was speaking about 10 minutes ago, of course, all things are made of consciousness

are made of me. It's not out to get me. How did I miss this? I was like, Oh my God, I've missed this. Not a hundred percent because it's like you, my wife i and our ways our family very health conscious very into the into nature eating eating right taking care of ourselves and we it's always been a way of life in this family um but when i realized that viruses were either you can there's a lot of different you know people describe virus by virus in different ways but i'll give it it's there's two potential definitions of viruses I think are valid. One, it's a excretion of dead tissue. Tom talks about that. So a virus is simply an excretion of dead tissue, exosomes, it is sometimes called, and or a virus is, or a bioresponse is simply a verb, not a noun, but a detox,

an inner detox, a deep detox of the cell. So once poison or toxins, we live in a toxic environment, get past the liver, kidneys, sweating, bacterial infections, once they become so prevalent that they get past all that, they drive deep into the cell. And what happens? Well, eventually that necessitates a detox where we kick out the poison and that poison then gets into our bloodstream before it's secreted and we feel crappy. That's a virus. So there's two ways we could look at viruses in my opinion, but neither of those ways is that contagious. Now, because all human beings are modulations of consciousness, energetic modulations of consciousness, of course, there's going to be my health, then sure, my wife, if she needs one, I may resonate with her energetically, and that may kick off a detox within her as well. But that's got nothing to do with a particle that comes out of my body that makes her sick. That's just energy. That's just

resonance. And the idea that that's not a thing is laughable to me. If I yawn, if I yawn, Liz yawns. If I laugh, Liz laughs. If I smile, she smiles. If women share, if women who are menstruating, menstruating age, share a cabin in the woods for two months, their menstrual cycle starts syncing up with each other. I mean, this is like the most obvious thing. And the world of pharma will not recognize it. It must be a contagion that someone spits on someone else. And this has never been proven and it never will be proven. So I think that is the first thing that we need to just eradicate. But more importantly, actually, and that's really important.

More importantly, it goes back to the fact that the materialistic paradigm is a lie. Now, I don't mean materialism in the sense of greed. That's a fallout from the definition I'm about to give you, which is materialism is simply the belief that the separation we see is true. So if I see a tree in the distance, that that's actually outside of me or separate from me, which is also laughable because how would I even know a tree exists without me? I mean, I know that sounds nuts, but like, it sounds so obvious, but how would I know it can't exist with it separate from me? It has to, it can only exist within me. It literally can't. The noise from a car doesn't appear in the road a mile up from me. It appears here, not there. It can only appear

here or arise here. And we've got this. So the materialistic paradigm, as I said before, is a paradigm of separation and thus conflict. Because if you are a separate entity and I am a separate entity, ultimately, ultimately, I'm going to be out for me. I'm not only a separate entity and you're a separate entity. We've been taught that we are separate entities that are limited and lacking and share the destiny of a body. So I'm going to want to hold on and gather up as much good and stuff for myself while I can. So I can play the game and pretend I'm all generous and all that nonsense. But ultimately, if I am a separate entity, I am going to come first. That is ego. And from that paradigm, from that paradigm, exactly what's happening with pharma, it's almost, by the way, it's almost logical. Also,

sorry, I'll just digress a second, that from that paradigm, someone would take a vaccine. It's almost logical from that paradigm, because if I'm limited and lacking, and you can give me something that's going to sustain me, well, even if it's poison, I'm going to take it, okay, whatever. But if I'm consciousness, I would never, consciousness or love, I would never treat this apparent body with poison. As you were saying, it's just completely irrational to you, as it is to me. It's not irrational because we're necessarily anti. It's irrational because it's just irrational. It doesn't make sense. I can't even, I don't have to justify why it's irrational. It's irrational for me to eat an orange or eat broccoli or grass fed beef. It's not, it's not logical to drink Coca-Cola and I'm not going to, and there's

nothing that no reason to drink it. It's, it, it's just not going to happen. Because luckily, we have some semblance of understanding that we are loved. So we will treat all things including the body in that respect. So it's not until this materialistic paradigm is called out for what it is, that these types of situations, and you gave a couple timelines on different situations, that those types of things will stop happening. And quite frankly, I, as I said, think this, in my 59 years, this is the ultimate reckoning. This is it. I don't know what stage of the reckoning we're at, but this is the reckoning. We've got to realize that we are not limited and lacking. We have no evidence that we are limited and lacking bodies. We have no evidence of this. We have all the

evidence in the world that we are infinite and eternal consciousness. So we've got to flip this script and start acting like it, and thus the world will live in harmony. Yeah, we've had people from all walks of life point out different ways that we've pushed the earth to the brink and that we, in and of our own experience, truly have our backs against the wall. And I saw this lockdown as something that would springboard us back into a firm understanding. You know, when I was in college was one of the most depressing times of my life when I finished football,

because I realized the only thing I loved about college was football. I didn't love school. I had taken all the courses that I liked. And now it was a lot of classes left on how to sell myself to potential employers. So like, this is all bullshit. Hey buddy, at least you had some classes you liked. I can't say. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

I did enjoy, I did enjoy quite a few of them. But you know, thinking about that, that most depressing point in my life, I saw no light at the end of the tunnel. I saw myself hating every day in a desk, in a cubicle, hating every day under the fake fluorescent lights, trying to climb the corporate ladder. And I don't mean to piss anyone off who's enjoyed that because I know most of my listeners likely have been in that or are in that now. But I largely avoided that. That's why I went to fight in the UFC. I was like, I'd rather get punched in the fucking face than spend a day living like that. That's why I went to fight in the UFC. I was like, I'd rather get punched in the fucking face than spend a day living like that. And I don't know what it's going to take, but you know,

this, this springboard, you know, I, in probably three weeks into it, I was like, all right, cool. We're going to go, we're going to be forced inside. We're going to see, we're going to remember all the things that we've taken from us. We're going to remember what it feels like in nature. We're going to remember what it feels like laughing with friends at a gathering. We're going to remember what it feels like to go to an event and dance, or to watch our favorite team, or to go to church, or fill in the blank. When done in community, that's where the juice is. That's the joy of life is when we're gathered. You know, so to have those things robbed, I thought, perfect. This is the perfect reminder for joy of life is when we're gathered. So to have those things robbed, I thought, perfect. This is the perfect reminder for humanity of what's really important in life.

And it's a great redirection. But that wasn't the case. I mean, I know there's quite a few people that have woken up from this, but it hasn't been the case in mass. Yeah. But if you think about it, at least the way I saw it was at the very onset of it, I thought people saw what you just said. At the very onset, I think that the world was kind of, okay, we got to get – yeah, we now know what's important. I think at the very onset. But that revealed to me a very important misunderstanding when it comes to finding peace or relief. And this actually will go back to what sports psychologist discussion I was talking about earlier. So this terrible thing happened it's like it's like seeing someone um like jumping in this is an accident on the highway and you go to help because you you just have it instinctually

that's what we do so we we return home we return and we feel we feel better and we love. Love is revealed, right? But then because of the inherent misunderstanding of who we are, ultimately we're limited and lacking selves from that mistaken paradigm. We kind of return back and we start to look for the reason why we felt better. So it's commonly believed that, okay, the reason I feel good right now is because I'm thinking positive thoughts, right? But then the next day you don't feel so good and you try to think positive thoughts, but you don't feel so good. So it doesn't work. Right. But the thing is, Kyle, it never worked.

The only thing that could bring relief is. When we stop seeking. So this crisis happens because we've got to deal with the crisis. We stop seeking peace, love, happiness. We stop seeking fame, fortune, blah, blah, blah. Okay. And because of that, we return to clarity, peace, love. We're back home. But we don't know that.

We think we need the thing to do that. But it's actually when we stop seeking, that moment we stop seeking, that we think we need the thing to do that but it's actually when we stop seeking that moment we stop seeking that we start to that we love but the self-help world the psychology the world of psychology and by the way the world of religion and new age spirituality to a certain extent have convinced us that it's the object it's the thing it's the it's the guru it's the thing. It's the guru. It's the drug. It's the person. It's the going to church or temple. It's the routine, the practice, meditation, blah, blah, blah. But it's actually none of those.

I'm not saying those things are necessarily good or bad. I'm saying that the only time we find relief and then regulate back to love is when we stop seeking. But nobody knows that. Nobody knows that. They think it's because of the reason you stop seeking. Oh, I felt good when I was driving down to Bob Rotella's house in Virginia. You know why I felt good? Because I wasn't seeking answers anymore.

Bob Rotella was gonna give them to me. But when I realized that Bob Rotella couldn't give them to me, I felt awful. I stopped seeking. I felt good. Found peace. I started seeking. I felt shitty. That's it.

Now, this is not to say that seeking is bad or good. It's just understanding what's really happening that prevents us from falling for the vices of the material world. Just understanding that it's not out there. It's here. It's not there. And I think that that would happen right out when COVID hit was a vivid reminder of that to me because we regulated to love. We didn't have time. We didn't have time to really think about all this nonsense. We stopped seeking and then all of a sudden we had time and here we are. We ramped up to seeking again and here we are. Yeah, here we are. I've been confident know, I've, I've been confident in, in, you know, in, if I'm looking at the great reset, you know, the Klaus Schwab's of the world, the Bill Gates is the world,

the people that are, that are have, they have an agenda and they're as Jay, my buddy, JP Sears says, they're playing cards with their hands face up. They're not, no one is hiding this from us. It's not like they're, this is out in secrecy any longer. They're writing books. There's Bill Gates has a book. Klaus Schwab has a book. And you know, they're, yeah, I want to dive into, they have to part of that as well. But what I wanted to get to is really with it so far out in the open, is it just a matter of

the routine? Is the ingraining and the indoctrination so deep in us that we get back on the loop of trying to find the thing outside of ourselves? We get back on the loop of trying to attain some degree of I'll be happy when, is that part of us so ingrained that for, in terms of the great awakening versus the great reset, is that's what's preventing people from this awakening process? Is that it's just so deeply ingrained to go back to what we know and to go back to seeking?

Well, it's so deeply ingrained that we are limited and lacking separate selves. So because we're lacking, we're not complete. We're not whole. We must go. That's what's ingrained. I am a separate self. That's ego. The belief that I am a separate self is ego. That's so ingrained that ultimately, yes, we will go back. Until we strip that total lie away, we will go back to needing the fix. And I want to be clear, I'm, to a certain extent, no better. Now, perhaps my fixes, so to speak, are a little less egregious than someone else's. I don't know.

But I still have layers and layers to strip away, as you do. We all do. It's just not logical at this stage of the game to, even though I yearn for those somethings sometimes, materialistic things, it's not logical most of the time. Well, it's never logical, but I don't succumb to the degree that I once did. And this is going to sound just blatantly simple when it is. I often suggest to people when desire ramps up and desire is simply seeking your identity in an object, seeking who you are and who you are not. When that ramps up, all that's necessary is a pause. I mean, like, because if we can pause, then that urge, and we don't try to satisfy the urge. And we often, by the way, try to satisfy urges by replacing a so-called detrimental urge with a good urge, which is ridiculous. Ridiculous.

So that's why addiction never gets cured. Because let's say in AA programs, they replace drinking with calling your sponsor three days a week as if that's any better. Or you replace drinking with Diet Coke or crack with a cigarette or something. So our tendency in addiction recovery programs is to replace one bad habit with a good habit. There's no such thing as a good habit.

None, zero. If you're relying on something on the outside to get you through, I don't care what it is, it's detrimental. Now, of course, well, I think drinking alcohol is better than drinking Diet Coke. That's another question. But we have to, as I said, pause. And in the pause, it allows the depersonalization of that urge. Because the urge actually doesn't arise within a body. It arises within consciousness. And once we don't try to satisfy the urge, it will dissolve back to consciousness. But if we replace the urge with something else,

now we're on a never-ending train of different elements of addiction. So again, we are consciousness. How can an urge arise within a body? It arises within consciousness, within the universe, not within a body. But we're so taught to be a separate body that we think we need the fix in order for that body to feel good again or be whole again. And that's the dog chasing its tail. So right, we're ingrained to need the fix in order to become whole. But that comes from the fact that from a very young age, we are ingrained to be an individual, a separate self. And that is the materialistic lie that, in my opinion, we need to start to

question, we start to question. Now, to the thing about why they're so obvious about their scheme. Well, if we are love, we are consciousness, people cannot imagine that anyone can be so devious. So it must be true, because I would never act that way. So Fauci can't possibly be lying. It has to be true what he said. So the lie has to be enormous for someone to get away with it. It has to be. It's Bernie Madoff.

It can't be a little lie. It's got to be an enormous lie. And that's exactly what is happening now. Hitler wrote about this in Mein Kampf. It's very obvious. So this is the secret to great liars. They tell such an amazing, extraordinary lie that no one would believe it's actually true. Not true. It has to be true because no one would do that. Yeah. People definitely have a hard time in their own goodness wrapping their heads around the potential. And also the potential, I have some pretty, I've spoken through friends of friends to see other people's viewpoints on the other side of the fence. And one of the common threads was that, you know, if, if there was any truth to this,

we'd hear the opposition, we'd hear about it on the news, we'd hear about it somewhere. And I think that's one of the most brilliant things that has, that has been shown to us in this last year and a half is how there are nine corporations that run the 1500 cable companies, every single radio station, every newspaper, there's nine companies doing it. You know, in V for Vendetta, that conglomerate was down to one. They had one news station, one radio station, one everything, right? We're not far from that. Nine is not that far from it. So I'm sure you've seen it where they showed 100 different TV screens

all next to each other and they're reading off this script and it didn't matter if it was Fox or CNN or MSNBC or they're supposed to have different viewpoints. They read the same script. They read it locally. They read it nationally, internationally. That script went out about Amazon.

That script keeps going out about various things. And that was in my feed. That wasn't in a lot of people's feeds based on how the algorithms work. So I'm just curious, what is it that you think will allow people to really start to shift? I know you've mentioned quite a few things here. Number one, the fallacy of separation. Number two, the idea that the boogeyman that we can't see is going to kill us and wipe us all out, you know, in any form, right? Because you can see they just spin the narrative to the latest, greatest thing nobody's heard about. And, oh man, we got to get

afraid of this, right? Let's be afraid of this now um though we have these we have these things that are laid out for us ultimately what is it going to take for people to understand conscious is it a direct experience is it in death i mean where does it come where they get the reminder oh shit you know yeah it's it's in the death thing is actually interesting because everyone you know they have these articles that come out some about the regrets of the the regrets of the dying right we've all read those type of things and every one of those articles they may have different a different list but they're all pointing to the fact that, oh my God, what did I do? I just chased all these objects, money, popularity, women, whatever it was, like a good, nice car, house, whatever it was, right? Everyone's like, what did I just do for the past 85 fucking years? Like, what did I just do? How crazy am I? And in fact, upon that

realization, you find peace because what happens? You stop seeking them. So upon knowing or thinking the end is near, which I actually don't think the end is near at all, but thinking the end is near, you don't have anything to seek anymore. So as I was saying before, what happens? You regulate back to peace and love. And that's very obvious at the end of so-called life. Now, the question though, I don't have the answer to the question. I'd be making something up. But I could answer it like this and say, well, what I do know for sure is your greatest gift to the universe is to know yourself, your own self-realization. So my suggestion to you and to me and to everyone is know yourself and then go. But if you don't know yourself, if you think that you're this limited and lacking puny speck within a million other specks,

you're going to be insecure and you're going to be anxious. It's just a mess, right? So know yourself, know who you are, and then let life take care of itself. That's the only true advice, the only way I can really answer that question because I don't know what it's going to take. This is going to sound maybe strange, Carl, but I'm not even concerned about it because either way, consciousness, well, let me say it like this. When I'm of right mind, so to speak, I'm not concerned about it. Okay. When I'm home, I'm not concerned about it because what I know is that consciousness isn't going anywhere and we are consciousness. So we don't have anything to worry about. You know, everyone's so worried about dying and they have no experience that dying is a problem. It's hilarious. What's the problem? You're not living by experience if

you're concerned about dying because you have no experience of dying. Quite frankly, you have no experience of being born, but that's a whole nother show probably. But what are we worried about? And I say, go live from, know yourself, know you are infinitely eternal and go live from that perspective. Clearly when you are at your best in the ring or on the field, that's what you were doing. Clearly that's the, you just, you're out there just being yourself. So, yeah, know yourself and then go. And I have three children, 29, 27, and 24, and that's pretty much been our motto for their entire lives. I messed up a bunch of times.

My wife has messed up less than me. She has less conditioning. But for the most part, we've kind of just let them be themselves. And I'm very lucky to say that they're all in professions now. One's a college baseball coach, one's in his third year of medical school, is training to be a surgeon. They were both, and my daughter's in the fashion industry, but they were all college athletes. They were all, two were baseball players and one was a field hockey player. And they all played, obviously, really good athletes and they and they've chosen careers where they're more or less giving to others. I think Chelsea, my daughter, is finding her way to that more than the boys are.

But she'll get there because I just know what she's what she's about. So that's how we've raised our kids. Not a lot of rules, not a lot of do's and don'ts, and just go be yourselves, and that's it. And they've grown up having a father who teaches the consciousness only model or the true self. And I think to a large extent, that's kind of seeped in there. Some of my greatest moments are like when my daughter was traveling in junior year in college. She was in Europe and I was doing a tour in Europe and she came with me and we traveled around Europe together and she sat at the registration desk of all my events.

And those type of moments have been amazingly heartwarming. So anyway, I just think we've got to know who we are and we've got to let people be themselves, even those we disagree with and know in the end we're going to survive either way because we are consciousness and nothing can harm us. Yeah, the game is a game in eternity. So there's no end, no beginning. Even though the small self might have a finite part of it, we get to keep going. You've written a couple of books. Are you finishing your third right now? It's finished. It was actually, believe it or not, finished before this pandemic. I'm using air quotes when I say that. It was actually written

before that. Interestingly enough, I had another book. So I wrote A Still Power, The Path of No Resistance and another book. And in that book, once I had that experience with that player who kind of called me out, I scrapped that book and sent it back to the woodshed. I worked hard on it. It was a lot of 75,000 word book I just tossed. Publisher loved that, but I did. And then I wrote this book called True Self. And then COVID hit and I put it on the shelf, back burner, because I just something had to give. I couldn't focus on getting this book out. And I sat about four months ago, Kyle, trying to decide, am I going to re-edit this book to kind of fit COVID? And it was a really hard decision for me, which delayed it even more. And I ultimately decided not to. I just felt like that's kind of playing to the crowd a little bit. And there's even some people mentioned in the book who have taken a stance on COVID and even on COVID vaccine mandates and stuff, passports and shit that I disagree with.

And I really struggled. Do I take them out of the book? And ultimately I decided not to again. So anyway, the short answer is this book is going to come out, um, probably the end of the spring. Um, and yeah, so there are some mentions of it, um, just a little bit, but not, I didn't do any deep dive into anything. It's, it's, it's really a book, uh, that I hope is somewhat of a legacy to, uh, my work. I'm not going to sell this book on Amazon. I'm not even going to sell this book on Barnes and Noble.

I'm going to set up my own distribution and I can promise you, I'm going to end up giving away more books than selling them. And I'm okay with that. Well, Garrett, it's been, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on and I look forward to diving deep into that book and whatever's, whatever's to come from you. I really appreciate you, brother. I really, I can't, I, I getting to know you is, uh,

I appreciate Zach for introducing us. And, um, if any, if any of your listeners have any questions about anything, you know, just send them my way. I'm happy to wrap with anyone on, on these things. Oh, phenomenal. What are the best way for people to find you? You got a website, garrettkramer.com. Are you, are you still on social media or are you off social media now? Well, I just, yeah, my Instagram with all these followers just got, just got canceled. Now I've got like 2,500. So I'll build, we have to build that back up. It's fine. You can send me a note through there. You could send me, yeah through on my website which again um as

you and i were chatting before this was kind of ravaged by youtube taking me down so but there is a a form um where you could where you can reach me on my website and then i'll just email you right back awesome so much appreciated garrett you have a beautiful blessed day, and I look forward to chatting with you again. Okay, brother. Likewise. Peace. Thank you.