Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #265 Eugene Trufkin

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Guess where I got Eugene from as a guest… You got it, he’s down with the Chekster. Eugene is much more than that. He dives DEEP into the nuances and tricks of the labeling, packaging, and sale of beef and other food products. Go check him out, get his book, Anti Factory Farm Guide to Shopping. Until then, enjoy y'all!  Connect with Eugene:   Website: trufkinathletics.com  Instagram: @trufkin_athletics  Facebook: Eugene Trufkin Portal  YouTube: Eugene Trufkin Radio  Show Notes:   Russel Brand - The New Trucker's Protest(Farm Regulations video)  Anti-Factory Farm Shopping Guide - Eugene Trufkin Sponsors:   Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! Lucy Go to lucy.co and use codeword “KKP” at Checkout to get 20% off the best nicotine gum in the game, or check out their lozenge. PaleoValley Some of the best and highest quality goodies I personally get into are available at paleovalley.com, punch in code “KYLE” at checkout and get 15% off everything! BiOptimizers Kapex This new product helps you utilize both dietary and stored fat for fuel and energy. Ideal for Keto lifestyle or otherwise. Head to kenergize.com/kingsbu and use “KINGSBU10” for 10% off any/all orders!    To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle:   Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service Academy  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys   Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com  Zion Node: https://getzion.com/ > Enter PubKey  >PubKey: YXykqSCaSTZNMy2pZI2o6RNIN0YDtHgvarhy18dFOU25_asVcBSiu691v4zM6bkLDHtzQB2PJC4AJA7BF19HVWUi7fmQ   Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back to the show, everybody. We've got Eugene Trufkin. It's been a couple weeks since I podcasted with this guy. He is a Czechie, and more than just a Czechie, he is alumni from the Living 40 podcast, as many of my guests are. A brilliant guy and author who wrote a very fascinating book, a book that really debunks a lot of the language being used in nutrition

and supplementation. I think we all know at this point, if you've been listening to this podcast, that if something's labeled all natural, it doesn't mean a damn thing. It literally does not mean a damn thing. But we dive into more than that. Just because something's labeled organic does not mean it's something you necessarily want to put into your body. And all kinds of crazy verbiage shit that I had no idea about. Something can be labeled 100% grass-fed, grass-finished and still be allowed to have grain during its life.

I had no clue about that. Maybe y'all did. Maybe y'all are hip to the game or clued in a little bit better than me. We dive into a lot there. We dive into much more than that. His life growing up, born and raised in the Ukraine, and then coming here stateside. It's a pretty fascinating story. And diving into health and wellness and really taking, I think, many of the same paths that we have. From him going from a biodynamic farm that his grandmother run into Costco, his story is brilliant. I mean, he thought that we as a country had mastered biodynamics to be able to serve that much good, clean food. And yeah, what a rude awakening I'm sure that was for him.

We dive into this and much more. Eugene is a fantastic guy. He's got a great outlook on life and he is doing the good work, helping to educate everybody about what the real story behind food is. And I think that's as important as it has ever been. And I'm still learning. And I think he's a great educator to follow. And I'm thankful that he came on the podcast and thankful for the work that he's doing.

There are a number of ways you can support this podcast. First and foremost, just share it with a friend. Share it with somebody that you want to hear. Share it to a contrarian. It's like, no, this is the organic grass-fed, grass-finished is the only way to eat. Share it with somebody who can be due for rude awakening. But share it to somebody that'll listen because the listeners way to eat. Share it with somebody who can be due for rude awakening, but share it to somebody that'll listen because the listenership goes up.

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Leave us a five-star rating with one or two ways the show has helped you out in life. It makes a big difference in getting eyes on the show. And last but definitely not least, support our sponsors. We handpick these guys. When you use my coupon code, it doesn't give me extra money, but it keeps the sponsors sponsoring me,

which does give me money to support this podcast. So buying, and it also saves you money. It saves you big-time money, and it'll save you 20% off at Organifi if you use code KKP at checkout. Organifi has been one of our longest sponsors. These guys are making healthy, amazing food convenient and they are only sourcing the highest end, best ingredients that are good for everyone.

Good for the planet, good for the soil, good for you and me, good for your kids. And they're doing it in a way that is convenient. Anything you do in health and wellness and fitness, anything you do in lifestyle change, the big one, how do we integrate the big ceremony? Integration is habit change. Eric Godsey and I say this all the time. Integration is habit change. How did it change your fucking life? Well, it changed my life because this and this happened differently on my day-to-day.

On my 24-hour cycle, I changed this. On my weekly cycle, I changed this. And what I put into my body changed X, Y, and Z. I think that is absolutely critical when we're talking about integration or habit change or any of these things. What did you do to shift? And one of the cornerstone pieces of that is Dr. Diet. It's what we put in our body, everything from our supplements to our food to our water intake. And very few people in the supplement industry are making whole foods that come from whole foods,

if they're ingredients, whole food supplements of this standard, the way Organifi has been for years. And one of the things they're doing that I truly appreciate is they make it taste great because I know that there are things that are good for me. And if it doesn't taste great, that's not a sustainable practice for me to choke down shit that I don't like just for an effect. I'll do that from time to time, but I'm not going to be consistent with it. If I look forward to it, like I look forward to lifting weights, I don't look forward to

diehard killer two-a-day MMA training, so I don't do it anymore. I look forward to lifting weights, and I look forward to lifting in the style that I like. Sometimes it's hypertrophy, sometimes it's powerlifting, but I do what my body wants. I do what I enjoy doing because I know that's going to keep me showing up to the gym. And I don't eat great food because it's good for me. I eat great food that tastes good because I want to eat it. I want a grass-finished burger because it's healthy for me and I know it's going to fill my body with good stuff. I also want superfoods. I want superfood plants that I'm not normally going to get in my diet, but I'm not sourcing my own cordyceps sinensis. I'm not going to go source my own ashwagandha. I'm not going to source my own moringo and try to make that into something palatable in a shake each day. I want to buy from

a company that's doing it already for me. In the Organifi Green Juice, when I want a calm, smooth, alkaline drink that I can throw in that's going to help mellow me out and balance my energy levels. It's the Organifi Green Juice. My kids drink it every single day with me. Anytime they see me making it, my little girl comes up, Wolfie, and she's like, hey, daddy, Wolfie Green 2, Wolfie Green 2. And I go, okay, okay, all right, I'll make a second one because she's not touching mine. But it's got moringa, it's got ashwagandha, it's got all sorts of goodies that you're not going to find on your own. If you do, they're not going to taste great.

You know, getting it in there, only three grams of carbohydrates per serving. That's another killer. Sometimes stuff tastes great and you're like, wait a minute, this tastes a little too good. And you look on the back label and you're like, fuck, there's 30 grams of sugar in this?

Well, that's ridiculous. Or even 15 grams of sugar. That's too much. I don't want to drink my calories. I want to eat my calories, drink my medicine. And this is pure food medicine. It is amazing. And you don't have to talk your family into it. You don't have to talk your family into it because they're going to enjoy it. The Organifi Red Juice is a must-have. It is an absolute staple. Before I tinker around with it, just pre-workout, even try the little bedroom routine with it. And it is quite nice for that. But I must say that the red, it's a game changer. It's going to help improve oxygenation through the blood into the muscle. It's going to help

improve the mitochondrial function, which is important at any time of day, but especially pre-workout, especially pre-podcast or pre-cardio or pre-anything that has any type of physical or mental demand. You want your mitochondria firing and the Organifi Red Juice is going to help with that. These guys have awesome packages too. You can buy three packs of stuff with the gold, red, and green. That's their trifecta, if you will. The gold is the nightcap. It is the best thing to do to unwind in the evening. Even on hot summer days, I still have a hot gold drink before bed and it's excellent. It's something like, it tastes like Christmas going down. And I know turmeric has very little to do with Christmas, but a hot creamy drink right before you go to bed or

an hour before you go to bed is something that just naturally relaxes you. And it's got lemon bomb. It's got a fat dose of lemon balm, which is also going to help relax you. But this warm and cozy feeling, I think it's called hugel or something like that. The Nordic countries practice it. It's this practice of comfort and warmth in the wintertime. It's a cozy blanket. It's not just a drink. It's a cozy blanket. It's hot chocolate. It's a fire lit. It's a candlelight instead of overhead light. It's all these things rolled into one that create a vibe right now. It's dead heat summer in Austin right now. So maybe the opposite or maybe employing that in Austin would mean iced tea or Arnold Palmer's or some shit like that. But point is, year around, I still crave

the gold and I crave the gold because it's such an easy way to have a drink that's like, oh, there I go. Let everything melt away. Now I'm calm. Now I'm happy. Now I'm ready to get some good sleep. And I love that. I love that about the Organifi Gold. Check it all out. These guys have so many brand new products that are amazing. The Glow, my wife loves the Glow. It's an excellent way to enhance collagen synthesis. So if you're drinking bone broth by day, there are some amazing nutrients, vitamin C being critical for collagen uptake and its ability to create new skin, hair, nails, joint tissue, all that stuff. It takes both of them. And the Organifi Glow is great for that. Also tastes fantastic. Check it all out. Organifi.com slash KKP. That is O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash KKP. And remember to use code KKP for checkout at a whopper. 20% off.

All right, y'all. We are back with Lucy. Lucy.co is one of our longest sponsors as well. Many people have picked my brain on nootropics. I helped develop them and on it for a long time. I also was hit in the head for a long time. on nootropics. I helped develop them and on it for a long time. I also was hit in the head for a long time. So nootropics have been a mainstay in my supplement game, but there's no nootropic that's better than nicotine. A lot of people have a hard time with this. Why? Because cigarettes suck. They are bad for you. That does not change

just because there's something good in it. If it's outweighed by 400 to 4,000 nasty chemicals that are going to cause cancer, we don't want that. We want the cleanest form of nicotine. We want an amazing nicotine that is going to be convenient, something you can use whenever you want. And look, as far as the options are concerned, the government is banning vape pens. The government is reducing the amount of nicotine in cigarettes. There's never been a

better time to give Lucy a try. They have great flavors, multiple strengths, the only nicotine pouch with a capsule inside that keeps it fresh. Look, we're all adults here, and I know some of us choose to use nicotine to relax, focus, or just unwind after a long day. Lucy is a modern oral nicotine company that makes nicotine gum, lozenges, and pouches for adults who are looking for the best, most responsible way to consume their nicotine. It's a new year. Why not start it out by switching to a new nicotine product that you can feel good about? If you enjoy using nicotine, you should definitely check out Lucy's products at lucy.co. That is L-U-C-Y dot C-O and use promo code KKP at checkout.

And also I have to read this disclaimer. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Remember, if you're interested in a better way to use nicotine, visit Lucy dot C-O and be sure to use that code KKP at checkout. All right. I know I'm still reading ads here, but I cannot. The entire time I've been doing this, I've not been able to get out. I'm still standing. Little Elton John. The more shit

I see in the world, the more that fucking song just recycle like, oh yeah, but I'm still standing, motherfuckers. Let's go. And I hope you all realize that as we debunk and we open up podcasts that, yeah, dive a little deeper into the sticky situations and in the weeds that people don't want to look at. Just remember, I'm still standing. And if you're not standing, you're in a wheelchair, I'm still living. You're still living. You got this.

We got this. PaleoValley.com is our next sponsor. These guys have made it all the way out to our little farm in Lockhart, Texas. I love these guys. They are doing it right. They use 100% grass-fed and grass-finished with none of that bullshit in between that we're about to talk about with Eugene Trufkin. Many on the market claim grass-fed, but they are actually finished on grains. Many in the market claim grass-fed, grass-finished, and they're still fattening them up with grains in between. Their beef is sourced from small domestic farms right here in the United States. They use real organic spices to flavor

their beef sticks versus conventional spices sprayed with pesticides or natural flavors, often made from GMO corn. That's another one, natural flavors. Fuck out of here. They ferment their sticks, which creates natural occurring probiotics, which are great for gut health. That cannot be overlooked. That's a really big deal when we're talking about dehydrated foods. If it's packaged, it's a little harder for your body to process it. It's been dehydrated. You need more water to go in and rehydrate. And if you don't have it, it's going to draw that from the intestines. The probiotics are going to make this easier on the gut, easier on the intestines, easier to move through your body and absorb really bioavailable protein.

This is coming from animals, right? That's a big, big one to understand. One of the largest arguments that vegans overlook is bioavailability. Plant protein does not have it. I mean, even the bioptimizers guys admit that in their packaging. That's why they say taking the Veggiezyme will help you break down plants better. It's very hard for us to break down plants. It's not hard for us to break down animals. And this 100% grass-fed beef has higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids. These are the type that my wife and I can break down. EPA, DHA. We cannot take ALA and convert that into EPA

and DHA. But if we eat it from an animal, that's what we're getting. We're getting the stuff we actually need, DHA and EPA. Vitamins and minerals, fat-soluble vitamins, glutathione, nature's master antioxidant. CLA is conjugated linoleic acid, which is the fat that burns fat. Bodybuilders have been taking this for years. Bioavailable protein, they're also keto-friendly and they're a great protein-rich snack to grab on the go. I probably had one or two a day while I was out in Virginia with our next guest who's coming on next week. Phenomenal guy. We're at the Robenia Institute getting a crash course on regenerative agriculture. PaleoValley.com is all about that. And they love what we're doing at our own farm. And now in this next episode, not this one right now, but the one

after, you're going to get to see really the kind of tutelage we're getting, which is phenomenal. These guys refuse to cut corners. They prioritize health over profit. They use conscientious processing and manufacturing. That's a big one I'm going to dive into next week. And they source only the highest quality ingredients available. Check them out. PaleoValley.com. Use the discount code Kyle for 15% off. That is P-A-L-E-O-V-A-L-L-E-Y.com. Discount code K-Y-L-E for 15% off everything in the store. I also love their organic food bars, so much to choose from there. All right, y'all. We also are brought to you today by my boys at Bioptimizers, and they got a brand new website URL for us. Don't remember. Just remember.

Don't worry. It's in the show notes. kenergize.com slash kingsboo. I like the ring of that. kenergize.com slash kingsboo. There are so many research benefits to having good fat in your diet. There's just one little problem.

With all this healthy fat, if you can't properly digest the fat in your diet, you won't feel good. To really get the best results from any diet, whether it's carnivore, paleo, keto, or even vegan, I've found that there are three things that can really help optimize your results. First, enhance your digestion and elimination. Second, boost your cellular energy. And third, rev up your fat-burning metabolism. Now, can you do all that without any extra nutrients or nutritional supplements? Of course. But in my experience, the right supplements certainly can

help. And one of the best diet aids I've ever found comes in my friends over at Bioptimizers, and it's called KPEX. What KPEX does is three things. First, it breaks down the fats that you eat into fatty acids using a proprietary lipase and dandelion extract blend. Most people are eating a lot more good fat in their diet these days. This means that you're breaking down the dietary fat into usable energy and not storing it. Second, they transport those fatty acids into the muscles and into the liver. And they have several ingredients that dramatically increase the fatty acid oxidation inside your mitochondria, both in your muscles and liver.

In other words, it's more fuel into your motor and more horsepower to your motor. If you take three to five capsules of Capex in the morning on an empty stomach, the energy is incredible. It feels like a cup of coffee and it lasts six to 10 hours and there's no nervous system stimulation. It's a really incredible pre-workout, but without the caffeine. And again, no matter what diet you're on, Capexing help with enhanced fat loss, assuming that you're in a caloric deficit, of course. It won't make up for a bad diet or eating lots of excess calories, but the research behind shows that it can raise metabolic rate and boost other fat loss hormones. I highly suggest trying it for yourself. And when you go to kenergize.com slash kingsboo,

that's K-E-N-E-R-G-I-Z-E dot com forward slash K-I-N-G-S-B-U, you'll automatically get 10% off any package of KPEX with coupon code kingsboo10, all one word. That is kingsboo10. kenergize.com slash kingsboo and then use kingsboo10 for 10% off any order. All right, y'all. Without further ado, my brother, Eugene Trufkin. Eugene, tell us a bit about your background. You are one of the many guests that I have

not stolen but borrowed from Paul Cech's Living 4D um it's funny i mean anyway i vet all my guests but anybody that he's vetted it's like you're a fucking shoo-in like if you made it on paul's show happy to have you on because you know he only brings on people that have an absolute wealth of knowledge and um i'm excited to have you on today i only saw the 16 minute clip of the time that you guys were on a couple of years ago, I guess. And, um, perfectly timed because this is, you know, there's never been a more important time in my opinion than understanding where our food comes from, um, who your farmers are, where you're, you know, where you're getting your food, how it's sourced, how it's grown. And there's so much wrapped into that. I've got the documentary filmmaker who made Kiss the Ground coming on the podcast,

I think by the end of the month. And there's a farm bill that's coming up you may know about that's pretty serious. You know, that's really like a push. Like, can we get regenerative practices instated? Or are we going to see more of this nonsense from the World Economic Forum where they claim they're trying to switch people over to organic farming, but really they're just trying to fucking ruin the industry for farmers in the Netherlands and Sri Lanka and all over the planet with a climate policy that is designed to bankrupt farmers so they can buy it for pennies on the

dollar. Russell Brand just did a phenomenal 15-minute video on this. I'll link in the show notes on YouTube on his channel talking about that. He's like, I'm a vegan. They're saying don't eat meat. I should be on board with this. I eat all organic food. I should be on board with this. They're trying to make an organic laws, which is why you can't spray certain nitrates and things in the ground. And at the end of the day, if it's done forcefully, that's not the move, you know, and this is coming out of his mouth. And's brilliant most vegans don't speak that way um but you know the the main point that he that he brings forward is like the world economic forum doesn't give a fuck about these farmers they don't give a fuck about climate change they don't give a fuck about the environment

and he's like you know all all it would take to follow a paper trail you know to see if these guys were following uh bankrupting farmers and buying up farmland. I wonder if there's any billionaires buying up farmland. It just cuts to a photo of Bill Gates, who's bought 240,000 plus acres of farmland. He now owns more farmland than anyone else in the world. And then you can connect these dots. It's no longer a mystery, right? But I've been rambling here for a minute. I want you to jump in and talk about your background. What was life like growing up in the Ukraine and coming out here from a biodynamic farm? What was your experience hitting grocery stores? And then really, what brought you on the path that you're on today to bring this mission forward for understanding our food and really our health?

Yeah, thanks for the introduction, Kyle. And yeah, regarding your comment with Polychek being able to pronounce everyone's name, I tried to get good at that by like trying to search their name on Google before actually doing it. Because that's oftentimes the hardest part of the podcast is pronouncing some people's names. And I still managed to like mess it up like 50% of the time every time. That was one of the things I was actually nervous about getting on Polychek podcast in terms of you saying he screens his guests very well, etc., etc. I'm like, well, shit, Chuck knows a lot about this subject, too. I might say something wrong and then get called out by one of the most credible holistic health practitioners. And that was obviously a worry.

But thank you. Thank you for the introduction. Again, it's great to meet you. I met you through Polytechck's podcast as well. And I've been following your podcast also and your transition, you know, into living. How do I say getting out of the swamp of mental and physical pathology that society has become today and kind of distancing yourself slowly, but surely from that. So, yeah, I mean, in short, my background is I was raised by my grandmother

on an off-grid farm in Ukraine. So I kind of grew up basically probably the direction you're headed for quite a while, you know, and we grew up with basically relying on biodynamic farming. And for your listeners, I know you know already so much about this, but for your listeners, it's basically kind of what they usually have in their mind's eye of what farming is. You have like open pastures, you have a lot of animals, a lot of different crops. You're obviously not using a myriad of biocides, antibiotics, beta agonists, steroids, the myriad of GMOs out there, et cetera, et cetera. It's basically like a chemical factory, what farming has become these days. And that's kind of how I grew up. So I didn't even know, I didn't even know any difference. So when I came to the U.S.

and when I went to like Costco, for example, for the first time with my parents, I saw this huge abundance of food and I'm like, dude, America has got it made. Like imagine producing this much food through biodynamic practices. And number one, because honestly, like now, now I can kind of visually tell with the research I've done over the four years. And once it kind of like gets on your radar and your consciousness, it's easy to see like low quality food, even visually. But in the beginning, it kind of like looked all the same to me, you know, these eggs look like these eggs. And I'm like, dude, I can't believe Costco is able to sell 60 eggs for like $2 that

are pasture raised, biodynamically raised corn and soy free, because it all looked the same to me. But then I think it's been at least four years at this point I ran into Paul Cech's old old video of nutrition the dirt facts and it's on YouTube it's for free it's like very grainy it looks like the footage maybe is from like the 1990s still and he was talking about obviously you know the huge country covered a lot of topics but the huge contrast between industrial agriculture and biodynamic farming using biodynamic practices is like the gold standard. And that's when it kind of clicked in my mind. I'm like, well, wait a minute, that stuff I'm purchasing at Costco or getting that low discount on, you're telling me it wasn't raised the way like my grandmother raised it,

you know, on that off grid farm. And you would think that's when it would become like very clear but honestly that's when it became extremely complicated and my my project started with like hey i just wanted eggs it's as simple as that i didn't have like a world mission or or uh or a need to save the world or anything like that sort i just wanted eggs that are were similar to the way my grandmother grew them which were basically on pasture we have like very little uh very little grains if it was supplemented with grains even at that and I'm like well this project is going to last like two weeks and I'm going to be able to find these eggs at the supermarket and I'm just going to buy them and sure enough like four four and a half years later I'm just going to buy them. And sure enough, like four, four and a half years later, I'm still looking for them. Maybe you can help me find them.

Medellin, Colombia. If I could jump in. Medellin, Colombia. I spent a week there back when my son was in the womb seven years ago. I have never seen egg yolks of that orange in my life. They're in every grocery store, every fucking egg there, and they're all on the counter, right? They're not in the refrigerator. There's still shit on the outside of the shell.

You crack it open. There's no salmonella. There's nothing to worry about. And they're just, they're robust. They're the most beautiful egg yolk you've ever seen because those animals have been outdoors their entire life. They're on the same pasture their entire life and they're eating bugs, right? They're digging through cow shit and eating fucking fly larvae. That's what a chicken wants. It's an omnivore, but it's really a carnivore like emus and like plenty of the bigger birds that don't fly. They're there to eat insects. They're controlling that population. And that's what's going to give them all that color, all that beta carotene, that usable vitamin A. And I've never found that stateside, not once. I'm hoping our chickens will deliver that. But yeah, to your point, I haven't fucking seen it either. Yeah, I'll have to start buying from Kingsbury's Farms.

You mentioned it right there. I mean, it's become kind of like a little bit ridiculous in terms of even for the well intention. Now, granted, like 99% of people are just looking for the deal. And this conversation isn't for them, for the people that are looking for the lowest cost food for one reason or another. This conversation is more over even for people like you and I, which have run into these obstacles. You're kind of already surpassed these obstacles, but I'm pretty sure there's a time period where you're like confused by like these myriad of labels. You're like, what is this? What is this? And then the label doesn't live up to the claim oftentimes, even if they do claim certain things.

And that's kind of where I'm getting at. It's become like literally almost impossible to source high quality food in the US these days, even when your intention is to do so. So for example, like the average person, let's just start, you mentioned with eggs, you know, you mentioned your experience with eggs. Let's say the average person just like me, we're like, well, I want healthy eggs. Okay. You go to the grocery store and these days you have way more options than normal. So you got, you know, the no label, which is basically a caged operation. Then you got like a few different labels. You got the cage free, free range, pasture raised, and obviously got various levels of integrity of each system.

But here's where the confusion is from a customer's perspective. So the average customer is going to go to the grocery store and they're like, well, they're going to see this like free range. Let's say even USDA organic certified, you see that USDA organic certification label on there. And usually the picture of the graphic is like millions of acres of open pasture and you have like two hens on there, you know? So the consumer's mind is like, okay, well, it says free range, it's organic. This is kind of legitimate eggs. And this is like really all I need. But here's where the deception and levels of deception are. And they're actually the companies most of the time aren't lying to you.

They're telling you the truth on the label, but the way they're kind of greenwashing it through these labels is what makes it like very, very confusing. And it's easy to deceive the average consumer. I was even deceived and I grew up on a biodynamic farm because these days, you know, the average consumer is so detached from the land, so detached from the farming lifestyle. They don't even like know how even eggs are produced, you know, for example. So when they look at that label, they're like free range USDA organic. Okay. So this is legitimate and maybe

like 0.5% of the time, it really is a legitimate operation. But most of the time, let's look at what industry free range is. So industry free range is typically you have like a huge warehouse, you have a couple hundred to a couple thousand hens in that warehouse. And then you have like a small little concrete patio, where maybe like 5% of them even go outside too, because typically the opening in the barn is just so small and the light is so harsh, it kind of scares away a lot of the hens from actually roaming outside. So if you go to any of these operations, it's basically kind of like a caged operation. They're stuck in this warehouse 24-7. The average space per hen is about, you know, 1.5 to 2 square feet per hen. So it's very,

very small. And here are the problems with that practice. So first and foremost, and here's how the labeling works, if obviously the hens aren't going to the food, you have to bring the food to the hen. So if they're in an enclosed environment, they're obviously not going to be able to roam outside and get food, et cetera, et cetera. So typically, 80% of the cost of an egg operation or a meat operation is just feeding the hen. So that's the biggest cost. So what is the most economical solution

is just to feed them a lot of grains. So in our example here, we have a USDA certification product. So they're feeding them organically certified grains, but we'll talk about the little bit of leeway here. But when they say feeding them, when they say on the label, for example, you'll see free range and you'll see at the bottom, you'll see like vegetarian fed oftentimes.

And for the consumer, this sounds like very appealing because they obviously watch Netflix. They watch a lot of these vegetarian documentaries, although like a lot of the health experts aren't there, aren't looking too healthy myself. But for some reason, because they have like an MD or a PhD, it makes them like very credible on health matters, et cetera, et cetera. But that's another topic. And they see that and they're like, okay, so these are free range USDA organic and it's vegetarian fed. That's like the best product ever. But just kind of like you hinted at

in the beginning of the podcast, hens or chickens in general aren't vegetarians. They're omnivores. And ideally, preferably, like you mentioned more towards the carnivore side. I mean, when was the last time you gave a bird like a worm and then some lettuce and then it hopped all over the lettuce before it went to the worm? They go like super crazy when it's bugged. So they should be eating

bugs, insects. They obviously eat like a mixed omnivore diet. They could rely on that. But when it says vegetarian fed, especially in these industrial operations, when you're buying stuff at the grocery store, it's most often industrial level, even if it's organic. What they mean is just grain fed. And what they what they're specifically saying is just fed primarily like large amounts of like corn and soy, which often oftentimes like offshoots the ratio of omega three to omega six. So if people look up the inflammation theory of disease, obviously there are a myriad of variables

that lead to inflammation in a person, but one of them is a poor diet that's very high in omega-6, very low in omega-3. So ideally, you want that ratio to be like one to three, one to one, et cetera, et cetera. And for your listeners, I know you know this, but for your listeners, omega-3 is like an anti-inflammatory, omega-6 is a pro-inflammatory, and both are great for your health if they're in the right ratios. But the typical American diet probably have like 20 omega-6 for every one omega-3

or even worse in some cases. So obviously, if they look up the inflammation theory of disease, you'll see that the bulk majority of disease, 95 plus percent arises from just chronic inflammation, which happens because of a stressful life, like micro stresses, which pretty much everyone living in a city has 24 seven, uh, you know, poor diet, that's very high in pro-inflammatory foods, uh, even being sick, et cetera, et cetera, being exposed to toxins, all that stuff. So just right there, I mean, we're looking at, okay, so this person thought they're buying like the most optimal food, but you can quickly start seeing gaps in the labeling. And they're actually

telling you the truth because look, they say free range at the top, but they say vegetarian at the bottom, vegetarian fed at the bottom. But wait a minute, if the hens were actually roaming outside, wouldn't they be eating bugs and insects and all that other stuff like we mentioned, because they're basically an omnivore? Yes. So how are they fed a vegetarian diet? They could only be fed a vegetarian diet if they're in a confined operation. So in no way could be like actually like a free range operation. So they're actually telling the consumer the truth, but they're kind of greenwashing it in a confined operation. So in no way could be like actually like a free range operation. So they're actually telling the consumer the truth, but they're kind of greenwashing it in a way that kind of keeps them deceived long term. And then also the other problem is, is a lot of the grains that are imported into the,

a lot of the grains that are used in animal operations, including egg operations in the U.S. are actually imported, usually imported probably from like Ukraine, Turkey, and like Uzbekistan kind of countries, et cetera, et cetera. And there, I talked to Joel Salatin about this, and I know you mentioned him on a lot of your podcasts, and there is about like 50% of the great like organic grains that are imported aren't even organic. So there is a tremendous amount of corruption that occurs in these countries. And the corruption is at the broker level. So basically the grains are raised conventionally in like Ukraine or Turkey, for example.

And then the paperwork is switched to the docks. All of a sudden they can make more profit because it's organic. And then they're used as organic grains in the U.S. So there's that aspect you have to consider as well. So there are just a few things. Another problem with these confined operations is a few things. So this happens with pork, turkey, cattle as well, but it's actually far more prominent in egg laying hens because they live for longer periods of time before they're sent to processing because typically the hens would be used for eggs for a while until their lifespan of egg production is up. And then they're

kind of sent to a meat processor after that. And usually how long is that? Is that usually like eight years on average, six years? No, it's around two years or so oh wow they don't okay but that's in a factory setting because my understanding was that like a true free range hen can can produce for up to 68 years but we're saying is in the factory confines they got two years of production they're fucking done i think they're trying to maximize the optimal production period that's right that's right okay optimize their feed to product so okay that makes sense to me and i think also is worded to me by by one of our local experts that, you know, women, human women have a finite amount of eggs they can produce in their lifetime. Same thing for hens.

And you can accelerate that by leaving an artificial light on at night. They'll continue to produce. They might do two eggs a day, those kind of things. But it's still coming from that finite source of eggs. Yes, exactly. Sorry to derail you. I'm just trying to learn as we go. No, things but it's still coming from that finite source of eggs yes exactly so sorry to derail you i'm just trying to learn as we go actually your input would be great because you're actually very knowledgeable in putting the practice to use as well so uh i'm looking forward to actually interviewing you after this yeah brother yeah i'm pumped dude you're the expert

here so um so yeah another problem with confined operations is typically when you kind of confine animals in an operation is obviously it causes them a lot of micro stresses. And when you kind of get them shoulder to shoulder like that, what happens is their body starts producing too much serum amyloid A proteins. So these proteins in small amounts are okay. They're excreted by the liver, but when they're chronic, which is, which happens in these operations, because I mean, just use common sense. Imagine if you're in a warehouse with like 200 people shoulder to shoulder, you're, there's no privacy, no bathroom, no space to

breathe outside, et cetera, et cetera. This is obviously very, very stressful. So when these animals are under this chronic stress, their liver starts producing excessive amounts of serum amyloid A proteins. And some of these break up into amyloid A proteins, which are plaque that get deposited in the organ tissue and a smaller extent in the muscle tissue of the animal. So what happens in that case? You know, you are what your product eats, for example, and you are the composition or nutritional profile of your product. So there are no conclusive like human studies, but there are a tremendous amount of studies on amyloid buildup in farmed animals that are being fed to rats. And then this plaque begins to actually form in the organ tissue of the rats as well and cause complications, which could become troublesome, especially with the amount of food like athletes eat or the amount of food,

just the average American eats. Because imagine if you're eating these eggs, like four or five eggs a day or other meat products that are also like very rich in amyloid A proteins, that's going to have an accumulative effect on your body as well. And what causes this increase in amyloid A proteins? So obviously high concentration, which causes a lot of stress. Also, just a lot of the vaccines that are given to these animals actually cause that inflammatory response, which contributes to that excessive amount of serum amyloid A buildup. And also just the amount of bacteria and viruses that are around in these confined operations, that also stresses the central nervous system, which once again adds to that micro stress environment, which

once again spits out more of that serum amyloid A protein and causes more of that plaque buildup in the organ tissue and the muscle tissue of the animal. And this happens with pork production, broiler chickens like meat chickens, for example, turkey, fish farms, etc. Anytime you have high confinement, you get this excessive amount of amyloid A protein buildup, which I kind of totally went under the radar, but I learned from I forgot the author's name, but wild Italian diet, Terry Cochran. Yes, that's her name. So I've heard of the book. I haven't, I haven't read it. I'm not familiar with it. Yeah. So that's, that's kind of where I learned it from. And, um, some of your listeners, they might be like, uh, well, actually another issue.

Sorry. I'm kind of literal, literal scattered here. Jump all over the place, brother. I love it. That's how I podcast too. I'm like this idea, that idea. Yeah. I'll just grab, it's all good stuff. Let's go. Yeah. But another issue is obviously if like, this idea, that idea. Yeah, I'll just grab one. It's all good stuff. Let's go. Yeah, but another issue is obviously if like, for example, we use the organic, this is an organic product, but if it's not organic, whatever biocides they're using to grow these grains with are also going to make it as part of the nutritional profile of the food group. So some people would argue like, hey, you know, there's trace amounts and they're so small, like who cares? The government did all the thorough testing and they're looking out for my safety and everything's going to be OK.

But the problem is, is actually complete formulations of synthetic pesticides aren't ever tested for safety. So you would think common sense would be like you take the complete roundup spray you see at Home Depot, you spray it on a product, then you feed that product to like mice, and then you test the safety of that product. But it's actually not what happens in industry. What happens is any chemical formulation has two main components, the active ingredients and the inactive ingredients. So the active ingredient is the main player, but then they also have a bunch of supporting inactive ingredients that increase the lethality and the duration of that active ingredient. So what happens to get safety testing passed is basically they just have to test this chemical formulation,

the active ingredient in that chemical formulation in isolation on its own without the presence of those inactive ingredients. Those inactive ingredients, though, are meant to increase the lethality and the lifespan of that active ingredient. So of course, if you take those out of the equation, it might be able to pass safety testing. And the other problem is, is all this safety testing is done at the chemical company by their scientists on their payroll, and they send these reports to the FDA for approval. So obviously, that's basically the equivalent of your teacher letting you write your own exam and grade it as well, and then kind of send it to them to actually just put into

the market, et cetera, et cetera. So what you're speaking about is the exact same argument that me and many others have around vaccines. When you've got the head of the FDA jumping ship to Big Pharma and them hiring a former CEO from Big Pharma, it's just this fucking merry-go-round game of who's in charge and where, and it really doesn't matter. And to your point, when they test for a single vaccine, they're testing for that single vaccine. What they're not testing it for is the myriad that's required.

Something like 70 plus vaccines before you're 18 years old. I'm not even getting into the jab and what's new. I'm saying in the old school, if you're born after 1986, when the dole, uh, when the dole uh when the dole bill went through you went from 12 shots before you're 18 to 70 plus they're not looking at what happens when you take all of those every quarter and then see what that plans out with health-wise they're looking at one thing at a time which is not how it works in actuality

right and that's the exact same thing with our food. Yeah, and exactly. And to touch on your aspect, the other compounding difficulty is that, like, for example, the average newborn born in America is born with already trace amounts of 200 different chemicals in their bloodstream, synthetic industrial chemicals, agricultural chemicals, environmental, et cetera, et cetera, 200. And that's, I don't need to run a study to know it's probably a good idea to not have 200 chemicals in your body brewing in there, brewing in there. I'm sorry, FBI is trying to silence me here with getting toxic. But brewing in there 24 seven, especially in a child that has a lower metabolism, you know, that has a much lower metabolism due to size issues. And then you compound this with throwing all of these medicines, vaccines, pharmaceuticals, whatever.

And you wonder why, for example, there's a metabolic health and optimal metabolic health in adults. I forgot the name of the study. I was going to mention it when I was interviewing you. But it showed that 9 out of 10 American adults these days are metabolically unhealthy. 90%! And the study was honestly, Kyle, just measuring like, I'm exaggerating here, but just measuring like basically, is your heartbeat still beating? Okay, you're metabolically healthy.

And like 90% of people couldn't even match those standards. They're not even like making sure you're like Olympic level. And I'm like, dude, this is a disaster. This is becoming a disaster. And it's like, what are we doing? Just investing more and more money into symptom management, medical practices, and other bogus health care practice. My grandmother, for example, went to the hospital one freaking time in her life just to give birth to my mom. That's it. And she lived to be 87 years old.

She lived pretty much off-grid her whole entire life, never had an actual job, quote unquote, job outside of working the ranch and she lived to be 80 87 years old in perfect health meanwhile these days you got like 20 year olds falling apart in the u.s you know 30 year olds just like obese i went to costco uh i went to costco like two weeks ago on a sunday it was packed and i i don't go to costco very much often anymore uh but dude i was like the only male there with that huge gyno and like a huge gut like literally in the whole entire store on a packed sunday and i'm like dude this is a disaster this is what happens when you fall into symptom management medical and health care practices and never get to the etiology or the

root cause or teach people how to live like human beings again. Of course, it's a good money-making scam for the healthcare industry, but it's not producing healthy Americans and results speak for themselves. You don't need to listen to me. You don't need to listen to Kyle. Literally, go step outside anywhere in America these days, anywhere, and nine out of 10 people you run into are full of obesity and disease, full of mental and physical pain. It's tough to even find a healthy healthcare professional anymore as well on top of that. And these are the leaders, you know what I mean? These are the leaders. So obviously if the leaders aren't able to find their health,

how are the people following them going to be able to find it? It's kind of like blind leading the blind these days. I mean, it's very, very hard to find people living true to health principles like yourself, Paul Cech. There are many, of course, but in relation to how many are not that way, it's an invisible, invisible number. Yeah. I mean, there's many specialists, you know, and specialists in various fields. Few of them, you know, walk the specialists in various fields, few of them look, you know, walk the walk, they look the part, they are the thing. And, and, and to your point, I think it was Tim Noakes, uh, South African, uh, doctor who, who was one of the guys that

started diving into fasting and ketosis and different things like that. But, um, and met really metabolic function. But one of the things he was talking about was like, you could even look fit. You could be physically fit on the outside, aesthetically healthy and metabolically unhealthy on the inside. You know, you'd be running marathons every fucking weekend, but if you're eating the wrong things, that's going to cause this disruption. Then you're just a ticking time bomb to diabetes, to Alzheimer's, to various metabolic issues or inflammatory diseases as well. So it's not, it's not always, it's not always like, well, I went outside. Everyone looks healthy in Austin, that kind of thing.

It's like, no, man, people are fucked up. I've been blown away by how many friends and colleagues and different people that I run into with some autoimmune function problem. I think it was Dr. Michael Ruscio who you might be familiar with. He's a Czechie. He wrote Healthy Gut, Healthy You. He's been on the podcast a couple of times. Great dude. Uh, we're going to run it back with him. He just moved out to Austin a while ago, but he said, if you counted every, um, Oh man, now I'm drawing a blank on the damn name for it. There's a type of, there's a type of

disease that, uh, that, that they look at singularly like like Crohn's, IBS. They don't stack them all together. Tell me, autoimmune, there we go. If you added all the autoimmune into one category and called it autoimmune, it would fucking trump everything. Cancer, heart disease, stroke, all of them. It'd be number one by miles. And they're purposely not doing that.

They purposely keep them in singular categories, but they're all autoimmune issues. And all that autoimmune issue is expressing your body feels like it's under attack. So it's overreacting to things, right? Why would it feel like it's under attack? There's something, there's some stressor that's coming in that's no longer hormetic. It's been around too long and now it's chronic. And it's likely a combination of all sorts of shit.

That's one of the reasons I love all the diagrams that Paul has in How to Move Me Healthy, like the six funnels. You've got your relationship stress from your boss, your wife, your kids. You've got your food stress if you're under eating or overeating and not eating the right things. You've got movement stress from overdoing and underdoing or not doing the right things. And each of these funnels, funnels funnels to one funnel right and that one funnel will produce stress remarks you know like fight or flight symptoms nervous system changes microbiome changes and if left long enough that's chronic stress that's the introduction to inflammatory disease yeah exactly and exactly and i find especially with this topic here, even when people's...

Sorry. I think it's Google. Google's trying to shut you down. Yeah, I know. They're working as a team here. So even, yeah, exactly. And even when their attention is to do so, I find just it's tough to do so in the market these days. So like, for example, I forgot exactly where we left off on the pesticide question. But another thing is with, we talked a little bit about eggs and maybe you have some like hardcore vegetarians here and I don't eat, they're like, I don't eat that stuff. I don't eat animal products anyways, but it's just as impactful in the produce section as well.

So first and foremost, I mean, like, for example, right off the bat, a lot of the organic crops in the grocery store in particular, like pretty much if you're buying bell peppers, tomatoes, blueberries, lettuce, it's all hydroponically grown. And I'm not like anti-tech. There is a place and time for everything. Of course, like I think it has like a huge part if we do start colonizing other planets and the initial phases for sure hydroponics is is going to be a plus but the problem here is like for example the consumer once again is going into the grocery store they're seeing this organic label and they're like well it's grown in soil at least but it's not even the case anymore the majority of

the times it's actually grown hydroponically so for i know you know this already but for your listeners hydroponics is like kind of like a matrix kind of thing where you have like a bunch of plants hooked up to iv iv drips of nutrients etc etc there are many different ways of setting up hydroponics but that's one of them and uh they're basically kind of fed nutrients through these through these tubes and systems, etc., etc. But you got to look at this. First and foremost, the planet has gone through, some people argue even longer, but 4.5 billion years of very complicated evolution where the soil composition and having to go through five mass extinctions produce the

type of soil which produce the type of wild crops which are able to be domesticated, and then kind of give the crops we see at the grocery store these days. And then that's not even counting the universe, which has been around for 11 plus billion years, that had to form the galaxy, that had to form the solar system, that had to form the sun, that had to form the planet. And a lot of these hydroponic operations are like, well, we know better than all those billion years of evolution. And we're just going to take it away from the soil and produce it this way. So already that's kind of like very, very, very troubling. I want to comment. I want to jump in on that too. And then I want you to keep going. But that's been my argument against cell-based meat. That's been my argument against hydroponics is

that, you know, just from, I've had light experts on the show, like Matt Maruca, he's been a guest on Paul's, you might know of him. He created Raw Optics, a blue blocking company, and he's diving into low blue light technology for LED pucks and things like that. So people's whole home can be set to turn off blue light when the time is right. But we know if you're in a fucking office all day long and you've got fluorescent bulbs, I mean, most of my listeners know, and most of your listeners for sure, that that has an effect on your mood. That can make you depressed if you're in that situation long enough and there's no natural light coming in from windows or softer amber bulbs, things like that. If that has the ability to make me feel that way, what is a plant who's only experienced artificial light its entire life going to feel like, right? It's not getting the full spectrum.

It's not getting what nature delivered from the power of our sun, right? Which has put all life here. Like without it, there is no life here. So to remove that and say, eh, we only need this spectrum that we're going to give it that will maximize growth, that to me misses the head. As you dive into biodynamics, you have to understand we're eating sunlight. That's what's happening through photosynthesis. We're eating the energy of the sun. We're eating the soil. We're eating the wind and the air that's in that environment.

We're eating the carbon back in. We're eating all of those things together. And that is the orchestra of what our food should be. And when you start to tinker with that, like who knows what you're getting? That's the entire point. Yeah, exactly. You mentioned it. And a lot of these hydroponics operations, they never see the sun, they're under like artificial light. And just like you mentioned, I mean, you need the sun, air and soil to produce nutrient dense foods. It has kind of like a root system and it gathers, it basically gathers nutrition from the soil

through that root system. And it could only be as nutritious as the soil is. So a lot of times you get like, even if it is grown, even if it is grown in soil, for example, it's a monocrop you know you're never going to optimize the soil health in that situation a monocrop for your listeners is basically like you have the same like carrot after carrot acre after acre after acre for example and obviously when you have a lot of these monocrop operations i mean that's like the fastest way to destroy the soil a b when you get kind of stuck in

these systems, it's hard to go away and go back more into like a balanced regenerative system. But the problem with these systems is that like when you're producing crop after crop like that, which never happens in nature because you have a tremendous amount of biodiversity in nature, which keeps everything balanced, et cetera, et cetera, is you start developing a mismatch between the ratio of bacteria and fungi in that specific plant. So every plant has like a specific ratio that's optimal for the nutritional profile of that plant. And once those ratios start going haywire, usually the fungi dies down and bacteria goes

way up. The soil turns into dirt slowly because all of the soil food web starts dying. And when the soil food web starts dying, the plant becomes sick. And for your listeners, obviously, pests are nature's way of getting rid of sick plants. So if your plants aren't sick, they're not weak, pests don't come around. But when you're growing it in this type of system like a single crop farming system they become sick so pests come around so unless the farmer is going to change their farming practices which at this point they're not going to because they invested so much

money into machinery and chemical agriculture etc etc their only option is to put more chemicals on there more synthetic bio size etcides, et cetera, et cetera, which hurt the soil food web even more and kind of accelerate that vicious negative cycle. And obviously, just like with animals, you yourself as a consumer can't become healthy eating sick plants and animals. That's just not how it works. And if you're kind of more into the spiritual side, there's an old Native American saying that if you eat the misery of sick plants and sick animals, you inherit that misery yourself as well. So there's that aspect and that vantage point to look at it from as well. And it kind of goes full circle. It's an enclosed ecosystem. Like you mentioned, everything affects everything.

So obviously you got these weak plants like grains that are being fed to the animals. The animals can't come up with nutrients out of nothing. So obviously if they're getting nutrient devoid or just empty calories from these grains, then you're not going to be able to optimize the nutritional profile of that meat. Then you eat it. You're going to be lacking those nutrients. You're also going to inherit all of those biocides that they basically used on that monocrop system, et cetera, et cetera. And it all comes full circle and all comes to affecting your health. So sure, you know, a big thing too, it's kind of like a lot of people, their first

go-to response to me when I'm trying to encourage them to buy healthier food is like, it's too expensive. And it's not. Let's kind of break down the math because I actually did the math. So it might have changed a little bit now because I've done these numbers about three or four years ago. Obviously, there's been a bit of inflation since then. But three or four years ago, a 2,000 calorie factory farm diet per day is like $7.40. And a 2,000 calorie USDA organic diet, at least at the grocery store level, which is still a huge upgrade. There's gaps in the USDA organic certification label, no doubt,

but it's a huge upgrade from what Americans are eating right now, especially mostly processed junk is $12 and 40 cents. So some people would say like, well, there's a $5 difference right there. And that's why I don't buy organic to save that $5 per day. But wait a minute, wait a minute. How much does the average American spend on non-essential expenses per year? The average American spends $8,000 to $16,000 a year on non-essential expenses, which are categorized as alcohol, eating fast food, or going out with your coworkers at lunch, subscription services. My health is collapsing and I look like shit, but hey,

I can't hire a health coach because I don't have money, but I do have money for this new iPhone 12 plus coming out. All of a sudden, I can come up with $1,500 out of nowhere for that, et cetera, et cetera. And that's not even counting traveling. Okay. And that's also not counting that the average American spends about three to $5,000 a year on medical expenses related to poor lifestyle and nutritional choices. So you're looking at an expenditure of, you know, about depending on how you calculate it about like 12 to about 13 to $20,000 of non-essential expenses per year how much did this organic diet cost that i just mentioned 4 500 a year how is it that you have 8 to 16 000

or even more a year for bullshit that's not adding any value to your life at the end of the day except numbing you out from probably an existence that you don't want to be in but hold on you don't have 4 500 to invest in looking great hold on, you don't have $4,500 to invest in looking great, feeling great, also helping the right farming practices, which has a positive reciprocal circle on just the earth in general. So that kind of, I mean, right there, it's like very easy to disprove things. And there's obviously like a lot of things wrong with the industry too. So for example, you know, farming these days mainly operates on a vertically integrated system, which benefits factory farm, industrial agriculture for

the most part, okay, because grains are heavily subsidized. So we're mentioning meat products here. So you know, that grass fed, 100% legitimate grass fed, grass finished product, he's not getting kickbacks from the operation. He's not getting kickbacks from the government. But as we mentioned, 80% of the cost to an animal operation is from the feed itself. And what do they feed a lot of these factory farmed animals? What do they just barely, basically feed? They feed them a lot of just grains. And grains are subsidized, you know, by the government. And when I say subsidized by the government, what I really mean is subsidized by you, the taxpayer, because that's where the government gets their money from. So when you go to the grocery store and you see this packet of ground beef, one pound packet of ground beef,

and it's like two bucks cheaper than this grass fed operation from Australia, for example, which you see in a lot of grocery stores. You're like, well, I'm going to buy that. But you're already paying that difference. It's just you're already prepaying it through your taxes, you know, so you're not really getting much of a kickback or a discount. It's really once you take, you know, these subsidies away from from these operations, they all of a sudden become unprofitable and unsustainable, you know, these subsidies away from these operations, they all of a sudden become unprofitable and unsustainable, you know? So the only thing really propping them up is just

the government and these tax dollars. And then another issue is that farming loans, like say, like I'm Tyson Foods and I come to you, I know you have a farm now. And I'm like, well, Kyle, I see you got some chickens. We started in a chicken business. So the factory farm model was developed by two American business guys in the 1950s. OK, they weren't even farmers. They're just business guys. And they kind of capitalized on this factory farm model.

And they come to you and they're like, well, Kyle, I see you have a farm. We have this huge operation with a bunch of trucks. We have all the veterinarians. We have the contracts with the grocery stores. We got all the marketing in place. And we even have the hens. We have the hatcheries, the slaughterhouses, all that, et cetera, et cetera. We literally just need you to help us raise these chickens for our standards and you're like oh okay i mean you wouldn't say yes but let's say like the average person would be like okay that sounds like very tempting like basically all my responsibilities will be taken

care of and i just have to raise the chickens and i get a paycheck every yes plug and play right it seems damn good and it's very yeah and it sounds very tempting but then you're like okay sounds interesting but then i'm like well you know what uh. But then I'm like, well, you know what? You don't have room to house 10,000 hens for a single hatching operation, you know? So we need you to build a huge warehouse to be able to house these guys and to grow them to our standards. And I know, like, for example, the average farmer doesn't make that much money, you know? So I'm like, I know you don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars laying around to build

this operation, which typically would cost like 300, 400k plus to build just one of these guys. So we already have like a setup with the bank. And if we send you to the bank, they're going to give you the loan, even if your credit is shit. Don't even worry about it. Just tell them you're doing this type of operation with us. And the reason the banks agree to this very quickly is because if the farmer goes out of business, which most of them eventually end up going out of business because the way these huge corporations end up working with them.

Or killing themselves. One of the two. Yeah, exactly. And the reason banks loan these guys money is because if the farmer defaults on it, the bank will take their land, will take their equipment. And the difference of what they can't get back in the money, they just get back from the taxpayer. So it's a win win for them. They get to collect interest while the farmer is in business. And then if they go out of business, it doesn't matter. They're going to get all their money back anyways. And what ends up happening is then Tyson Foods would come in and buy that land, buy that operation and just instill like one of their managers there. And that's how a lot of this consolidation happened as well. Like you go to the grocery store a lot of times

these days and you see like a whole bunch of items. But if you really kind of track where all these items are coming from, it's usually just between like eight to 12 different companies. That's it. You got eight to 12 different companies dictating basically what 99% of Americans are going to eat. And where's the freedom there to choose? I feel like these days it is kind of a little bit heading in the right direction, a little bit, but it's not much. It's still very consolidated, still very controlled by just a handful of companies. And they're obviously lobbying millions and millions of dollars to the politicians. And the politicians are obviously favoring their operations in a lot of states over kind of like what you're doing, for example.

But just because it's easier in the sense that with these factory farm models it's easier to do that plug and play type of model you know it's not as it it doesn't require as many brains as a biodynamic operation and you can kind of train someone to do it very quickly versus like what you're doing here it's it's a lifelong journey you know on how to learn it learn it is the right way to do it but it it requires a lot of education, which a lot of these companies don't want because that requires free thinking, which they don't want, obviously. And then also it just requires a lot more investment into their personnel, which is a heavy investment too. Yeah. Time and money, when all you're looking

at is profit margins and, you know, the value of your stock, you're not taking that into any – there's no point. There's no data point in which that becomes an important thing. Whereas the inverse of that, like knowledge is power. And my whole farm – I'll get into it on your podcast, but we're all going out second week of August to the Robenia Institute, which is an Alan Savory school out in Virginia, just for that. We're all going to learn and we're not profitable yet. It's just so we can invest in ourselves right now and that'll change the scope. And thankfully, Robbie from Force of Nature, who I just sat on, he said that that's one of the first things that him and Taylor did and Katie, that Run Roam Ranch with the regenerative bison was they went to

an Allen Savory Institute and it changed the course of their operations. Adding in costs like that, if you don't understand what you're trying to accomplish and it's just making a buck, of course, they're not going to look at those things. One thing I wanted to ask you about that you really took, you touched on it briefly with the grass fed, grass finished and organics, but break that down for people. Cause this was a a this was a hiccup for me and you did it excellently on paul's um most people don't understand this i remember when i was you know you use costco as an example i saw they had organic ground beef there in the three pack and it was relatively cheap like 585 a pound something like that and i was like oh fuck yeah cool we'll get i'll feed my family

organic beef this is awesome and then maybe a couple months into that, one of my friends was like, well, that just means it's organic. They can feed them organic corn, organic soy, organic grains. It's not grass-fed, grass-finished. It's not any better lifestyle either. You know, they could still be in a very confined space and call it organic. And I was like, fuck me, man. And that kind of started the further dig as you've done. But I love the way how you break this down, because unfortunately, everything gets bastardized. Right now, regenerative, by most people's standards, is going to be kind of the holy grail when it comes to meat. In 10 years, that's not going to mean shit.

It's like labeling something natural, right? I hope that never happens with biodynamics, because at least there's still a biodynamic certification. labeling something natural, right? I hope that never happens with biodynamics because at least there's still a biodynamic certification, but money can spoil that, that, you know, like money can spoil that. At least when we're talking about, you know, what biodynamics means from Steiner's point of view, that's, it's a lot to learn, but at the same time, Steiner had, you know, he knew what that was, right? He didn't not know what that was. He knew what that was. And if you follow those principles, you are a biodynamic farmer, butive into this grass-fed, grass-finished, organic, especially when it comes to meat because I don't think many people understand this.

Yeah. You mentioned the USDA organic ground beef. Once again, there's a confusion between non-GMO. People think non-GMO is organic too but it really just means like the seed is not genetically modified which is a plus you know but it could still be grown with a lot of harmful biocides and also probably grown in a monocrop which kind of hurts the nutritional profile quite a bit of the crop and yeah but when it says organic um basically at the grocery store these days, if you see the USDA organic, it just means factory farmed with organic grains. That's pretty much what it means. 99% of the time you have a huge confined operation with hundreds of animals in there and they're

basically just feeding them organic grains. But like we mentioned, you got to be conscious of where those grains are coming from. So they may not, may not even be organic either, et cetera, et cetera. And you have to be like thinking like, I want, if you want to maximize the nutritional profile of the food group with meat, for example, you want that animal to be living like basically hands-free, you know, eating a species specific diet is very important with their natural, just think like, what would they be doing without people around and ideally that's how you want to farm so i volunteered at uh the number five bar beef.com uh at a regenerative ranch in orange county for about over a year and it was uh it was run by a guy named france france uh frank fitch patrick so very comical very funny guy he would actually like him a lot. Very, very bitter too, which made the comedy even

more, more, more funny in terms of how the agricultural industry has come around. But basically he's been doing it for like 30 years and he's had the same herd for that long. And what he did over the 30 year period was he just let the cattle die that couldn't survive in that environment. And the cattle that did survive bred kids that that couldn't survive in that environment. And the cattle that did survive bred kids that could optimally survive in that environment, which did the same thing, which did the same thing. So now he doesn't like clip his bulls. He doesn't dehorn the bulls either uses zero vaccines, zero medicines, zero antibiotics, zero beta agonists, zero steroids, obviously no grains. It's 100%

grass fed operation, et cetera, et cetera. And the cattle never get sick, rarely get sick. And that's a good example of like what you want to be looking for. Because basically like when I was there, it's like really not much to do outside of fix the fence from time to time and transition the cattle. Sometimes you kind of put some alfalfa on the back of the truck and then they kind of follow you to a new pasture and you let them be there for quite a while. And then you cycle them back. And that's another thing with, with like vegetarians, for example, like they got to understand like what's in terms of agriculture, what's really destroying the planet is crop production. I know that sounds contradictory and it sounds like crazy,

et cetera, but look at it this way. I mean, the earth is, if you look at the earth as an apple and shave off 70% of that apple, that's the ocean. So you're obviously not farming anything there. If you shave off another 15%, that's basically unfarmable land due to the way the land is shaped or et cetera, et cetera. And then you got like 15% left and half of that is basically where huge metropolitan areas exist because huge metropolitan areas are often built in very fertile grounds. So obviously, unless you do urban farming, you're not really going to do that much farming there. So really you're left with like, you know, five, 10% of the total earth's mass that's able to be farmed for food and what's the fastest way to destroy the soil monocropping with uh various bioscience okay

which inevitably have to coincidentally happen with monocropping what do vegetarians rely on for all their calories beans grains lentils You're definitely not getting any calories from non-starchy vegetables, et cetera, et cetera. And how are all those grown? Through monocropping, just right there. But let's look at Frank Fitzpatrick's operation, for example. You have a bunch of cattle. They're on one pasture. They eat the grass, which you're not able to eat and convert to nutrients anyways, those nutrients then are delivered to the cattle. While the cattle are there, they're kind of peeing, pooing on there, basically just providing the fertilizer and the nutrients that they're using their hooves to kind

of stamp onto the ground. And then once they kind of deplete the grass in that area, you move them to another area and then another area. And by the time you rotate them back, the grass in that area you move them to another area and then another area and by the time you rotate them back the grass in the initial area has grown back so you can see it's self-sustaining and doesn't require any external inputs you want to get away from external inputs that's what makes it like very hard to sustain especially when you start getting into supplementing a lot with grains and all of that stuff because then that requires a whole industry outside of you which requires oftentimes a lot of chemicals even if it's an operation, you still have to use a lot of organically approved bioscience, which inevitably an industrial operation is going to have to use a lot of, which will damage the soil as well. There's really no way of going about it

kind of going around creating biodiversity in a food production system. And it's also just a lot more resilient. So for example, when the Soviet Union collapsed, I was still there. When I was in Ukraine, it was still the Soviet Union. It's like a mega superpower. You know, you think these guys just never disappear. But all of a sudden overnight, I mean, there are many events that happened before that, but overnight it just collapsed. And guess what happened on our farm? Like, first of all, we didn't even know anything happened until like a year later, because we basically didn't even have electricity anyways. But what was happening in the cities in like Moscow and St. Petersburg, when you have a centralized food system and power starts collapsing,

all of a sudden, bam, you don't have any food in the grocery store. A glimpse of that happened during COVID here. And I don't consider COVID like a huge national emergency. And there's already supply problems there. So can you imagine a real national emergency? But on our off-grid farm, we had all the food we needed. We're self-sustaining. So there's the food resilience. And obviously a lot of people are like, well, you know, et cetera, you won't be able to... Factory farming allows the world to be fed. It doesn't. First of all, 70% of the world is still basically getting their food like you're making your food right now. It's farm to table. Factory farming hasn't basically engulfed

the entire world. And it's totally not sustainable simply because it relies heavily on chemical agriculture and mostly monotropy. 100% not sustainable. So I don't know where they're getting this. Like I could, oh, it's needed to be able to sustain a population. If you just bring back the bison herd, I forgot these numbers already, but about like maybe 100,000 or 150,000 of them existed in the US before the 1800s. 60 million. 60 million roamed from Canada to Mexico and back. They went through a giant circle. Yeah, they were, it was massive.

I mean, that's, that's according to the bison guys out in Fredericksburg. Yeah. So it could, it could actually be that number as well. I got to double check. I haven't checked it in a while, but if you just bring back that herd from the numbers, I remember I ran last time, it ended up being like about like 58 pounds of meat per person in the U S for a population of 350 million per year. And that's just from that one source. And then throw in a few regenerative farms, maybe throw in a few confined operations here and there, you know, everything has a place in time if you do it right, etc, etc, because you can still kind of have a good confined operation, but you can feed them a specific species specific diet. Like you can have a confined cattle operation, but just feed them

a myriad of a variety of hay, which will optimize their nutritional profile and alfalfa, et cetera, et cetera, and still get a very good nutritional profile for that meat, et cetera, et cetera. So, so it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable in that. I mean, just look at, look at what America has become in terms of their health these days. Sure. There's more to it than nutrition, but nutrition is one of the main pillars. And the good thing is nutrition is, um, one of the things people have most control, you know, uh, et cetera, et cetera, as well. So for most people, the money is there to do it. Uh, the options are there. Like for example,

well, you know, uh, I mentioned a lot of negative things about the grocery store, but here's some like quick solutions. So there are still some good, like force of nature, still stuff at Whole Foods. There are still some items. If you know how to look for them, you can find them at the grocery store. Wild fish is still like a good option. I feel like at the, at the grocery store, the successful to the general population. But there are also great companies like American grass fed dot org. You can go to that website, scroll to the bottom of the website. They have a huge interactive map of the US.

You click on that and they have like hundreds of regenerative farms that are AGA certified. So with the grass fed label, anyone can say they're grass fed. You know, even when you see the grass fed label, it literally means nothing because all cattle are grass fed for the majority of their life. But then 98 plus percent of them are sent to a feedlot and grain finished. And a lot of times because the label isn't regulated, oftentimes all you need to do is just fill out some paperwork. And then all of a sudden you're grass fed, you know, and people have to take your word for it. But for example, like even with grass fed grass finish label, I could start a cattle on grass, put them on grain, finish them for about a week on grass

and sell it as grass fed and grass finished. And I'm not lying to you. It is grass fed and grass finished, but I forgot to include that part. Well, I didn't forget, but I didn't include that part with the grain operation. And most people, most consumers, this goes so far under their radar, they wouldn't even know to ask. You know what I mean? That's the thing. And they'll just be buying that food their whole entire life and thinking they are really getting a legitimate product when, in fact, they're not. And it could be even the same thing with 100% grass-fed. You would think, well, it says 100%. It must be the legitimate thing. And I fell for this a

long time ago as well. First of all, I could claim grass, 100% grass fed and no one's going to freaking check. No one's going to check A. B, what happens is I could just send the cattle to a feed lot at the end and feed them like a bunch of grass pellets. And then you have to go into like, oh, you know, what kind of substances used to hold these grass pellets together? You know, how were those grass pellets grown? Obviously you need about like 20 pounds of grass to convert to one pound of flesh on cattle. So if you get the wrong grass pellets, it could bioaccumulate a lot of toxicity in that meat and that organ tissue, which then you end up getting. I mean, there are so many ways around it. Oftentimes people fall for the pasture-raised label too. They're like,

well, it's pasture-raised, so it must be grass-fed. Well, no, that's not the case because I can still finish the cattle on pasture, but bring huge bins of grain out and just leave them there. But then the problem is here is the cattle usually just end up hanging around those bins and eating from there and not the grass. It's kind of like candy for them. So obviously kids are going to be more inclined to eat candy. Same exact thing for cattle. So obviously the best thing to do is to do what you're doing, but that's not realistic for most people. Another good thing is to do what I did and just go work on a ranch and then you know your rancher best and just order from them.

That's also not realistic for people. So I feel like the good realistic step for people is getting it from like a third party certification, like American Grass Fed Association, which does onsite inspections, which basically don't happen at all. And they do onsite inspections during each season of the operation. Because sometimes, you know, you'll be able to run a grass fed operation during, you know, like a summer season or something of that sort, but not a winter season. So they would even check during the winter as well to make sure you're legitimately doing it then also. And they have like,

they have good enough standards, you know, you have to go read them and see where they match it. But it's, I guarantee you it's already better than what you're getting at the grocery store. You know, could it be better? Of course. But what's your other option? No onsite inspections, nothing. And just like taking their word for it, and 90% of beef sold in the US doesn't even come from the US. It comes from overseas. Even if you see product of the USA, that literally means nothing. I can import carcasses from Mexico, process them in California, and label it product of the product of the usa 100 legal didn't used to be

like this like maybe seven years ago used to product of the usa would mean raised harvested processed in the usa now it's like it could mean freaking anything because of the lobbying from the big meat meat uh packers sometimes even uh t Foods would even, or other operations like poultry operators, would even go and step forward. They would grow hens in America, slaughter them here, ship them to Mexico, ship them to China to process them into packages, ship them back from China to sell it here. That's a common practice as well, because even that's, that's kind of cheaper to do. And those, those operations too. So honestly, there's so much I can keep going on this for like hours and hours and hours. The general idea, even with the, I kind of skipped out on the, on the vegetables and fruit because the vegetarians are like, Whoa, that's why I'm not

eating meat, you know, et cetera. But look, I mean, look at what's happened to our crops. First, you have, they're probably grown hydroponically, not even grown in soil. Second, I mean, look at the amount of change that had to happen from their wild ancestors. So for example, the carrot originated as a white root in Afghanistan. And then over hundreds of years, it made its way to India where it became purple. And then over hundreds of years, it made its way to India where it became purple. And then hundreds of years later, it made its way to China where it became red. Hundreds of years later, it made its way to Turkey where it became white or yellow. Hundreds of years later, it made its way to, I believe, Denmark or Norway where it became orange. A lot of people see the carrot these days and they think it's like, that is how it looked, orange.

You know what I mean? But really, in reality, it's kind of like purple or like a white root in Afghanistan. And throughout all of these years of selective genetic breeding, in this case, what happened is like, for example, in orange carrot, you have like basically zero anti-cyanins, which are a potent anti-inflammatory and antioxidant. And a purple carrot, you would have about 900% more anti-inflammatory and antioxidant and a purple carrot you would have about 900 percent more antioxidant so what happens with these genetic selections the way the farmers do it is they typically favor more sugar and thinner skin at the expense of the nutrition of the crop because this is kind of like what um what the consumer is more likely to buy you know so there's that aspect. You have the aspect that

the genetic breeding, which bred out a lot of the phytonutrients in the plant, you have the fact that it's either grown in a modern crop, which is the case for pretty much anything at the grocery store, which depletes the nutritional profile of the crop, or it's grown hydroponically. It's not even grown in the soil in that case then uh you have the fact that they always pick these crops before they ripen and obviously the ripening process is what transfers the nutrients to the plant and the reason they do that is so it looks fresh on the display and so that hurts the nutritional profile of the crop and then it sits the transportation time and then it sits at the grocery store by the time time you end up eating it, it could be many weeks old already.

You know, and then what are you getting? You're just getting empty calories and just a bunch of water, basically. And that's it from the crop. So it's a far distant cry from, like, for example, spinach. It's rated as a superfood. You had that one cartoon character. I forgot. Popeye.

Popeye, the silver man. I was able to kind of like really beef up his like forearms by by drinking spinach basically but you have spinach it's rated as like a superfood but if you look the nutritional profile of like dandelion leaves versus spinach dandelion leaves are just like far far more superior than to spinach not even like a close comparison just to give you a quick comparison. Yeah. Mustard greens, lots of that stuff. No doubt. So, so there, there you go for the vegetarians too. You know, you have to be very wary also, even if you decide to go that route. And I would feel it's much tougher to be like a very, have very sustainable practices being vegetarian versus being, uh, I'm like more of a carnivore, I'm a more of a omnivore, but versus being more of a carnivore, I'm more

of a omnivore, but versus being like even a carnivore, I feel it's more sustainable based on just that one example I provided with Frank Fitzpatrick's farm, which are very kind of familiar with that practice already. So as you can see, it's kind of like all over the place, man. It's like, dude, I just want healthy food. Like, is that too much to ask for? And I would say yes, today, yes, is that too much to ask for? And I would say yes, today. Yes, it is too much to ask for. Well, I'm thankful that you've come on the podcast.

Your book is the Anti-Factory Farm Shopping Guide. We'll link to that in the show notes as well. Is there anything that you've got in the works? I know you just finished HLC3. How did that go? Pretty good. Um, I like,

I like Paul's classes. So I kind of take them as a hobby here and there. So cool, brother. Cool. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm excited to dive into two and three. I did one 10 years ago and I'm like,

yeah, I'm due for the, for the upgrade. But, um, uh, where can people find you and where can people tune into, uh,

your podcast? Um, they can just kind of Google my name. I have my own podcast too and my own website and I do all the social media stuff as well. Not the biggest fan of social media. It's not something I love to do, but I do it anyways, you know? Cool. I'll have my dudes track you down and link to all that in the show notes.

Thank you so much for coming on, brother. I'm looking forward to jumping on your podcast next. No, yeah. Thank you, Kyle. It's great to meet you and thanks for having me on you