Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #278 Hamilton Souther

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Yall may recognize Hamilton Souther from our brother, Aubrey’s, podcast. He is extensively and properly trained in many incredible medicines. I was blessed to sit with him in Sedona recently. While I may have been in the “clear” with the Dark Night of the Soul before thanks to many other mentors and support, Hamilton helped me integrate and alchemize much of this experience. There will be more so as always stay tuned! Love yall.   ORGANIFI GIVEAWAY Keep those reviews coming in! Please drop a dope review and include your IG/Twitter handle and we’ll get together for some Organifi even faster moving forward.   Full Temple Reset  and Fit For Service 2023 Core Program  are live! Head to the links above and explore the pages, consider your options and hopefully ultimately sign up. I hope to see yall on the path next year!   Connect with Hamilton:   Website: bluemorphotours.com  Instagram: @hamiltonsouther - @bluemorphoretreats  Facebook: Hamilton Souther  Twitter: @HamiltonSouther  YouTube: Blue Morpho Tours    Show Notes:   AMP #388 - Ecstasy as the Antithesis of Woke Culture W/ Alexander Bard Spotify Apple     Sponsors:   Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! Desnuda Organic Tequila Sometimes being fully optimized entails cutting loose with some close homies. We have just the sponsor for that occasion. Head over to www.desnudatequila.com for the tippy toppest shelf tequila in the game. Use Code “KKP” for 15% off your first order!!  Lucy Go to lucy.co and use codeword “KKP” at Checkout to get 20% off the best nicotine gum in the game, or check out their lozenge. Bioptimizers To get the ’Magnesium Breakthrough‘ deal exclusively for fans of the podcast, click the link below and use code word “KINGSBU10” for an additional 10% off. magbreakthrough.com/kingsbu    To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle:   Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service Academy  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys   Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com  Zion Node: https://getzion.com/ > Enter PubKey  >PubKey: YXykqSCaSTZNMy2pZI2o6RNIN0YDtHgvarhy18dFOU25_asVcBSiu691v4zM6bkLDHtzQB2PJC4AJA7BF19HVWUi7fmQ   Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back, everybody. We've got my brother and somebody who I'm incredibly excited to work with in the future and incredibly blessed to have worked with already. Hamilton Souther is on the podcast. I met Hamilton for the first time after hearing about him for years from my brother Aubrey Marcus is one of Aubrey's most talked about and most journeyed ceremonial guides. Really one of the best of the best. Somebody who has apprenticed with one of the greatest lineages of all time, who is now running the entire program at Blue Morpho for ayahuasca retreats outside of Iquitos in the Amazon. And yeah, I've heard many

great trip reports that have Hamilton involved from Aubrey. And I've always wanted to sit with a guy and I finally got to sit with him out in Sedona. Not with ayahuasca, but different medicine. And I am thrilled to have him on the podcast. Met him, got to sit in on a live podcast that Aubrey and him did. If it comes out right when this one does, we'll link to that in the show notes. We don't, I'd purposely, having sat through that one, cover a lot of different ground and really wanted to dive into who he was and where he comes from and all that shit. To my surprise, he's from Los Gatos, California, which is right down the street, like an earshot away from where I grew up, played football against Los Gatos High. Lots of cool

little synchronicities there. We dive into his work and the work that he's continuing to do, what it means to be a practitioner at his level with this third wave of psychedelics coming through right now and the importance of that the importance of that so even a seasoned psychonaut like myself doesn't wind up with his fucking life turned inside out as it was and uh you know much props to paul check and the homies for grounding me back to reality and pulling me out of that but uh hamilton my time with hamilton had everything to do with that experience with the Dark Night of the Soul. It was a lot of alchemy of the last two and a half years.

And we get into the juicy details of that on the podcast and really the details of who he is. I consider this the first of multiple podcasts that I'm going to do with Hamilton. And likely there will be some trip reports as we continue to work together and deep dive what we're coming to understand from these experiences. Really, you know, one of the reasons I mentioned this later on the podcast, but one of the reasons I was so thrilled and inspired by Kalindi Ayi, who was the guy known for doing 20 to 30 grams of psilocybin mushrooms over the last 20 years before he recently passed. He said, all these medicines are fantastic for healing. And at a certain point, finished the healing work. And then it comes about exploration. And for me, that just resonated so well, because really, I was not

searching for more healing. I was searching for, in a way, the nuts and bolts of the universe. What are the inner workings of God? How does consciousness work? And the why are we here? And funny enough, I think I mentioned this with Gaffney's podcast, everything Mark Gaffney's writing about is exactly what I was searching for. And he may not have all the answers, I don't want to say that, but I am saying, having read his work, it looks like he's got at least some of them right, like a fairly good amount of them right. And the beauty of Mark's work, which is largely in the Dharma, is that the practice, the yoga is required in the alchemy of that. And I consider my work

with Hamilton to be that. It is the yoga of consciousness. And a lot of what Kalindi was doing was the yoga of consciousness. It's really the exploration and understanding through practice and visceral experience of the inner workings of the multiverse. Kalindi still is an inspiration to me. I got a chance to talk with him on the phone before he passed away, but, and they never do 30 grams again. This is a fucking harrowing experience. But if I do, I think I would have Hamilton there

with me, to be perfectly honest. So just a fantastic podcast. I absolutely love Hamilton. We link to all his stuff in the show notes where people can find him. If you're called to the medicine, if you want to sit with Hamilton, all that good stuff will be linked in the show notes. There are many ways you can support this podcast. First and foremost, leave us a five-star rating with one or two ways the show has helped you out in life. As stated earlier, Organifi, all the way through the end of the year, at the end of each month, we'll select a winner. It's not random. It has to do with your review. If your review's fucking awesome, we'll select you as the winner and you'll get some free Organifi swag, not t-shirts and shit like that. My favorite supplements from Organifi, we're going to send it out to you. Leave in that five-star review at so-and-so, at whoever, and we'll find

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I hope all you guys go there for Black Friday, eight days, and crush this amazing, amazing discount. Thank you to all my sponsors and Hamilton Souther. Welcome to the podcast. Hamilton, welcome to the podcast, brother. Kyle, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. What's been going on? Well, a lot.

I've always been leaning into the amount of synchronicities that have taken place in the last week. It's actually something I spoke about for an hour to the Fit Pursuers group in Sedona and had no idea you were coming. And then Aubrey informed me like, hey, you're coming out. You're going to guide us through a little journey and just the team. And I was like, you got to be shitting me. I've been dying to meet you since I met Aubrey. I remember him talking about you back in the day on Rogan's and then again, having you on his podcast. And so that

was a phenomenal experience and a perfect way to get to meet each other. I can't imagine a better way of getting to hang and to know each other. I also got to sit in on the last podcast that you did with Aubrey, which was phenomenal. You guys really talked about these last few years as the impetus for, there's no more waiting. Now is where we put everything we've learned into play and it's fucking go time. And that was ultra resonant for me. Having been on Aubrey's a couple of times, I'm sure we're going to cover a lot of stuff that you've talked about on his podcast in the past, but I want to know all this. And we have a similar trajectory amongst damn near every show where I get your background and want to dive into what has allowed you to become you. So tell me about

life growing up and tell me about what got you into the medicine path. Well, I mean, life growing up was pretty Silicon Valley. I grew up in Los Gatos like we talked about when we were in Sedona. And yeah, I mean, I came from a family of professionals. My father was a surgeon, my mother's a nurse, my brother's a lawyer. We're going to school, prep schools and stuff like that for college. And it was all about sports and being the best we could be and pushing the envelope in that sense. And it was always about high achievement and stuff like that. I ended up going to the University of Colorado and I studied anthropology when I was there. A number of kind of really interesting synchronicities and things that fell apart ultimately had me there.

And yeah, I mean, that was really, really changing in its own right. I got really sick when I was in high school and that changed my perspective on sort of how I could pursue my life. So I actually looked for a lifestyle after that more than just achievement. And so I kind of wanted a balance of both. I went to Colorado. I was supposed to play golf on their golf team, but another series of events made that an impossibility. And so I just studied there.

I started traveling the world, getting really interested in what was going on around the world and getting really interested in what was going on with humans. So I studied anthropology, both interested in the past, the deep past and our ancestors and evolution. And then I was also really interested in the living cultures and what they were still doing.

So it seemed like there was this Western world, the civilization that had spread. But I had these deep questions like, were there still mystics? And were there people who still held ancestral knowledge? And did these tribal cultures really have a gateway into the soul or a gateway into spirits that they talked about? And there's these ethnographies that tell these crazy stories of the original pioneers and explorers that went in and met these people. And it was always intriguing to me because it's a little bit like science fiction,

and it's a little bit like medicine, and it's a little bit about just sort of these people that have survived conquest and living in these very remote places of the world. And so I was interested in it, but never thinking I was going to end up having my life go in that direction. I graduated from college. Right before I graduated from college, I had a whole life that was set up. I was going to be involved in international shipping, funny enough. And then after that, professional golf. And through that whole trajectory, I ended up having a spontaneous awakening where I just kind of saw through the veil and I started to have extraordinary experiences. I was completely sober when it happened. I knew it was happening. I was completely lucid. I knew other people were not seeing what I was seeing. It seemed like they were still behind a veil

and I had kind of pierced through this veil. And so I started to research really what I could do about that. Like you can't put the genie back in the bottle. So the genie was really outside the bottle. I was having these visionary experiences. I was having prophetic dreams. I was having lucid dreams. I was 22 years old going on 23. There wasn't anybody really talking about this in my circles. So I started to search where I could

find some answers. And ultimately, the synchronicities guided me to these tribal societies that I had studied in anthropology. So I was sort of back there and seeing that there were stories coming from them that were really akin to what was happening to me. So I felt very called in that direction. And literally within six weeks of that awakening, I was on my way to Peru, seeking out this solution to these visions that I had had and really thinking probably nothing would come from it. Thinking I was probably just, you know, either delusional or, you know,

wishing that science fiction could be real or, you know, something like that. So I actually went to Peru thinking that I wouldn't find the apprenticeship that I had seen in vision and I wouldn't meet the people that I had seen in vision. But actually I did. They were waiting for me.

I, you know, had the visions there with them that I was supposed to stay and work with them. They ended up accepting me into their lineage. And I started a medicine path. And at the age of 23, that continues to the day. It's been 22 years and really an amazing journey. That is incredible. So you enter into the lucid state dead sober, and I'm sure that could be fucking jarring. I've spoken and I'm sure I will bring it up later. When I went into the reactivation phase of 5-MeO, I had only had a two-minute fucking conversation on the possibility of that. And all experiences prior were positive. So I was just like, hell yeah. Dissolve into the oneness of the all, like unconditional love.

Like, fuck yeah. When I'm meditating, when I'm sleeping, let's go. Not realizing that could take me to some of the darker places I went. But the thing that panicked me about it was that there was no end in sight. Did you feel any of that? Like, fuck it. I can was um there was no end in sight did you feel any of that like like fuck it i can't put the genie back in the bottle that was that was was like a driving factor was there fear around that or was there just this knowing to listen to your calling and start to search out search it out no it was all fear at first like the whole thing was fear

like i didn't know what was going on i didn't have any frame of reference for this i didn't know what to do i didn't know where to go I was being told by dreams and visions what to do and where to go. You're thinking, this isn't your high school counselor. This isn't someone who it's real or if you're making it up at first. You don't know what's going on. I was confronted by all these doubts, confusions, and fears. I ultimately had to confront those. So no, I think there was a lot of fear going into it. Funny enough, the fear lasted through about the first 700, 750 ayahuasca ceremonies. So the fear was like a decade long journey. It started right then and then it unveiled how much fear I had been indoctrinated with. And then it unveiled after that, not only deal with the fear that you got indoctrinated

with as a kid, but now take on the fear of the unknown of what you're going into that just keeps expanding and growing as the responsibilities around that keep expanding and growing. So I think that aspect of the fear is really intense. What people don't talk about when you train is that you have a role in society that's very important in the Amazon, and that's to take care of all of the people that are really sick. So you start with this idea of, oh, I might be scared of dissolving into the oneness, or I might be scared of what happens to my own consciousness. Pretty soon, it's like people showing up in canoes with half-dead people saying, please fix them, with a whole family screaming and crying. I'm like an American guy in my mid-20s down there

with a mapacho in my hand and a shakapa. I got to fix this baby that's about to die, or I got to fix this elderly person that's about to die. You only have some medicinal plants and some chants and stuff that you learned. That just piles on the intensity of the fear then that moved to being internationally recognized in a field that was you know very fringe and very unknown at that time there were concerns around that and how just we would be perceived and then it moved on to working with people from around the world where all of a sudden you're responsible for 40 or 50 people in these experiences that have come from 10 or 20 countries from around the world. And we've all gathered for this experience. And so it just kept ratcheting up the next level of intensity around that. And in our work, there was no like, you know, micro dose,

it was all macro experience. And so you had to be ready to get in there, come what may in that, you know, ceremony, deal with whatever was going on with the whole group. It's, that was all very intense. Then you get into the idea of set and setting. And when you're a practitioner, set and setting is always against you because you're literally bringing into the ceremony people that have tremendous problems. And so you know you're stacking the ceremony with insane darkness to begin with. So it's not like, hey, we're in this beautiful place with this medicine and we're all going to get together and have this experience. It's more like people coming to you that have had tremendous traumas in their life, tremendous darkness. Some people have ancestral connection

to that and they're trying to be liberated from it. They're coming to you saying, please help me be liberated from this. And I was trained in those arts. And so in that situation, you don't really know what you're getting yourself into that night. It could be, I think it's very akin to like an MMA fight. You know that there's a certain kind of container for the experience, but you don't really know how bad it can get in there. You kind of have an idea,

but you don't fully know until you're in the round itself. And now you're 10 out of 10 visions on ayahuasca in the quote unquote medicine having to deal with that. So that was always a very intense thing as well. And all of that ultimately produced fear. Damn. Well, yeah, it seems like you had to hit the ground running. Talk about some of the people you've apprenticed under and what you've gathered from them.

I imagine the lineages that you're connected to and first and foremost like let's not i don't want to over overstep how fucking rad this is that you had a vision of the people that were going to take you in and they had shared that vision of you coming like that that or as an origin story like that is a that is that that speaks to the nature of consciousness and the oneness of all things. And it speaks to many of the ways that ayahuasca works. But unless you've been there, it's just fucking, what is this guy talking about, right? To the initiated, that's like a holy shit, this is possible. Holy shit, there is a directive or a GPS guiding us to where we need to be.

And if we listen to that, all possibilities can be seen. You know, it's pretty remarkable that that was your entry point. Yeah. Again, I didn't have a frame of reference for this. It ultimately happened to me. You know, it wasn't even something that I was seeking or looking for. I just literally got told in these lucid dream states and in these sort of lucid vision. And it's completely sober. You have to understand, like, this was a completely sober experience in my early 20s um yeah i was ultimately guided to this very small tributary off of another kind of feeder river to the amazon river from the city of in pardon me in the city of akitos in northeastern peru, it was 24 hours overland travel to get there. So you'd pass little

river town by little river town, ultimately peel off the little river towns down this tributary, go past the native tribe, go another like 30 minutes past them. You would go probably two, three hours without seeing another human just cutting through the forest, trusting that everything's going to be okay up there. And then come to this little gathering of eight, nine families along the river, sharing about 40 minutes of river by canoe paddle. And that's where I ended up having my first ceremony.

Up river from me, there were literally no other permanent inhabitants. It was just uninhabited wilderness. And it turned out that the guy that I had seen in vision and that had seen me, the great elder named Julio Jarena Pinedo, but the time was somewhere between 85 and 90. No one ever knew his real age. He never told anyone either. He lived about 300, 400 yards away from where I did that ceremony. So I got guided literally to the area where he was, had the visions in that first ayahuasca ceremony that I would stay there and I would train there.

I ultimately didn't even know what that meant. It just was, you're going to stay and train here. It took a year and just under two years, like a year and three quarters for Julio to fully accept me as a person in their lineage. That's a wild story in its own right. And yeah, so then I was crossed over that last veil into their lineage. It's a very intense experience when the practitioners or the shamans do that for you. They literally like force your old consciousness to nothing. And then they awaken this new state of consciousness and you're in a mind meld with them. It's not just there's telepathy, it's literally like a linked or a sinking with them. And then through that connection, they start to train you.

I'd only heard of things like that. I thought it was science fiction. I didn't know that that could be true. Having gone through that, that expression of that kind of connection lasted through the totality of my training, almost 10 years. And it was just, you know, incredibly intense. Yeah, I can, I can only imagine. So this, this elder was, was the main guy that drew you in. You've been, is it, is this similarly, was that the guy who guided the people that you generally sit with? Cause you have a team that you work with at Blue Morpho. Is that correct?

Yeah. I mean, Julio was the head of our Mesa. A Mesa is a group of these medico vegetalistas or practitioners of the medicines of the forest. And they pass down the teachings from one generation to the next. And they also will marry in. And so there's some ways that the lineage kind of meanders and evolves over the years but um julio at the time i got there only had one other uh student who is also a master shaman at his time by the name of alberto and julio and alberto ultimately

guided me through my training julio said he was just too old to do it himself at that time it's a very rigorous experience to go through training it It takes many years. And so Alberto supported in that experience. And then we ultimately lived and worked together at Blue Morpho through the end of Julio's life. And then Alberto and I worked together for another, God, almost 20 years, 18 years. And then during COVID, we shut Blue Morpho down. And so Alberto started to work out of his hometown. And just this last year, we've now started Blue Morpho up again, and I'm leading it myself. That's fantastic. What a rad trajectory that's been. Yeah, I've heard, I mean, Aubrey's got like a photo of Don Alberto, you know, puffing the mapacho and, you know, just

looks like, I mean, you can see the wisdom in his face. You can see the wrinkles and the amount that the guy's been through. My first medicine man was a boxing coach named Huitzilin, which is the hummingbird in Aztec. And he would hold pads for us. He'd take us to the reservation for sweat lodges and eventually started working with us with psilocybin and ayahuasca. And just a brilliant guy. I was laughing at the fact that Aubrey bought this painting from a Shipibo group at Don Howard's. And Don Howard was like, yeah, that's a good one. He watched him purchase it. And he looks fucking identical to my first maestro. And I was like, what are the odds of this? And in the painting, there's only four hummingbirds. There's no other animals. There's no condor.

There's no anaconda. There's just the hummingbird. And I'm like, you can't make this shit up. That's in our office right now. I'm podcasting in my house right now, but face-to-face, I go into the office and I look at that every day. And it's like, man, the interconnectivity is something that truly is something you can't turn away from, but something you can lean into. And then from there, it's like, I feel a certain level of guidance at every step. And I actually had felt that right when I was sitting with you and Aubrey during the podcast, I felt the level of like, okay, this is the guy Aubrey said he was. And I was super thrilled to get to work with you.

And I had spoken quite a bit about my durations in hell, the 30-gram experience being something that moved from very conscious fears like my daughter dying, blame, shame, a lot of things like that, the ending of consciousness into very unconscious fears. Like this is super intelligent AI has already happened. And this is a computer simulation of AI asking the same question humanity does. Why am I here? Who created me? And we're just acting this out. Lots of weird shit. But those experiences to me made sense. When the 5MEO started reactivating, I was entering new levels of darkness that I had previously just i couldn't draw something from it there wasn't like i'd wake up in the middle of the night having been there and say like clearly this means x y and z i'm going to journal it thanks for the lesson it wasn't that way at all it's like there's no end in sight i don't know how to stop it um but you know as i described this to you and you said oh yeah you got i know exactly what i know exactly what we're going to do.

We're going to go to the center of source. We're going to go to the center of consciousness. And we're going to reconnect your head to your heart because hell is all mind. And I was just like, dude, like my whole body said yes to that. Like, holy shit. Okay. He knows. He's been there.

Right. And I remember asking you about your time in the darkness. And you said it took you about 50 ceremonies with ayahuasca to fully move through the layers of hell. I was like, holy shit. That's just a different – you're playing at expert, expert level. I'm here just fucking walking into the shallow end of it like, hey, oh, okay. All right, shit can get dark. Wow, okay.

Talk about some of your experiences there. Talk about what you've gained from and your understandings. What have there been takeaways from those experiences, the clockwork universe, some of these different ideas that we've talked about, some of the archons, the David Icke methodologies that you've... Have you been able to pull coals in it? What is the thing that you keep circling back to that allows you to stay so grounded in the practice of having been there so often? Well, really, I mean, I got tossed into the wolves.

So it wasn't like this was going to be a love and light experience when it started. It was like you had to earn it in the Amazon. You had to earn the medicine, the actual healing aspects of the ayahuasca. When I got in there, it was a contested space, meaning that it wasn't just like you could go into vision and start doing your healing work. There was negative darkness everywhere.

It was permeating through the totality of all the visions. All the other practitioners were dealing with it constantly. It was interwoven through their mythology, how they talked about it. I didn't believe it at first. I was like, oh, that's just how they think about it. I can think about it differently and it'll be a different experience. And I got shown how weak that belief was so quickly as soon as I got in there and that darkness was 100% real for me. It was like being tossed into a living mythology of everything we've heard about of light and dark for the last 50,000 years of human evolution. It was like being in the realms of our collective consciousness that still fight with that and why the world's in chaos today. It was like seeing the wars of the world

only turned into Judeo-Christian demonic demonography and playing itself out. It was not only earth-based, there were many, many other realms and consciousness that it was associated with. So sort of in that holographic universe, it could take on any kind of metaverse structure, any kind of multi-D shape and context to the visions themselves. They could be astral, they could be outer space, they could be extraplanetary, they could be underwater, they could be like Atlantis, they could be um just any context but there was never any way to be able to say oh yeah that's a real place or that's a visionary place it was just happening only when you're in the visions it's 100 real in real time it manifests

as uh olfactory visions you smell them you feel it uh if you're attacked you can feel it go into your body and penetrate you and change you it changes your sort of core energetic code at a very physical level. And then it changes how you think. It changes how you feel. There were all these warnings. There were like a ton of warnings about all the different ways that it could be dangerous and what you needed to do about it. There was extensive training in the protective arts and how to be able to navigate all these

different realms that people call hell realms. So that was the first part of it was just learn how to be able to navigate all these different realms that people call hell realms. So that was the first part of it was just learn how to survive it and deal with it and then get comfortable in it. And then getting comfortable in it means, okay, I understand that it's like this. I don't have to fight it. I'm going to learn how to work here. I'm going to learn how to actually deal with this space. That took probably like three years. So the equivalent of about 300 ayahuasca ceremonies to get actually comfortable in that. That's normal. Down there, a thousand ceremonies is normal training to get through all of this.

So it's a very long evolutionary process to get comfortable in these different realms of your psyche because as it kicks off and there's the collective in play and your physical well-being is at stake, it takes a long time to just build up that much capacity and wherewithal to be able to deal with it. Ultimately, we navigated all of these concepts. There's a great article that you can find online that was done in 2006 from National Geographic, literally about this. It talks all about it. In the experience of the author, I went and rescued her from this place in hell. I froze this tunnel for her. We went down, we went and got that part of her soul back. We literally retrieved that part of her soul from one of those realms. It changed her depression, it changed her psyche in a positive way, et cetera. Basically, it was like every night training in it for years. And then ultimately realizing that even though I didn't

have to live in those spaces myself anymore, when I brought people together that were suffering from that, we would go in there together and it would all light up again. And that's what we would be dealing with. Over the years, I started to actually codify these different realms and map it all, and then learn how to really find the way through the body itself and the way consciousness is connected to the body to use the body as sort of an infinite gatekeeper to these different realms, which is why when I met you and you told me your story, I knew that there had been like an energetic separation at a higher dimensional state than just the physical body between your brain and your heart and the way that they were functioning together. I thought that this was a terrible

cosmic joke that I had searched the universe for about 10 years to find this link between what was going on in the mind and going on with unconditional love. And I found it was literally 18 inches away from my brain. I thought this is the worst cosmic joke ever. I go out everywhere through the universe to try to find it. And it's like, oh dude, it's literally right here. It's under your sternum, deal with it. You know, and so that was a big coming home

in a real way. So I just think, you know, it's time in the saddle. It's learning how to deal with it. Uh, it's getting over your fear about it. It's recognizing that this has been in our collective consciousness for tens of thousands of years. And, um, then after that, you learn this, the tools and techniques to deal with it. What do you think when you, when you look at the world, I mean, from a personal level, when I hear all this, I'm like, yes,

sign me the fuck up. Uh, I am going to dive in a little deeper into what our experience together did for me. But having had that experience and knowing what's possible, just listening to you. And obviously, one of the benefits of you is that you fucking speak perfect English. We grew up right next to each other, right down the street, more or less, Sunnyvale and Los Gatos. I played football against Los Gatos every year out of Monta Vista and Cupertino. And your ability to articulate and having spent this amount of time with masters is second to none. You meet a lot of people stateside that spend six months in the Amazon and come back and start serving medicine. There has been no real apprenticeship. They get the key code to the city because some

guy's broke and wants to sell them the real deal ayahuasca drink, and they start pouring for people. And that's actually, as you know, a very real issue for people because if you don't have that level of integrity and that level of wisdom, then what container do you set for others? And this is a big, big deal as we start getting into the plant medicine renaissance, even among small things like somebody just going into the plant medicine renaissance, even among small things like somebody just going into the doctor's office for a shot of ketamine. You open up these channels, and if you just got a guy who's on his cell phone waiting for you to snap out of it, that's a different experience than you singing Icaros and guiding

something beautifully. I want to state first and foremost, when I speak to you, having understood it from having lived both sides of that equation where I've drank ayahuasca and somebody played a fucking iPod versus going to the Amazon and like really getting a visceral sense of what it means to be in a safe container. And, um, and then even further than that, you know, meeting someone like yourself, who's been into some really deep and dark areas and, and is not afraid of it and also knows some of the key codes to switch that, that really is something that ignites me and lights me up inside.

But one of the questions I have is, seeing what we see in the world, what do you think is it going to take? I mean, does it take enough people becoming fully enlightened where we understand the light-dark game that's at stake here and we understand how to alchemize that, it feels like that's a fucking giant hurdle for humanity as a whole to say yes to. Like, all right, this is what it's going to take. I say yes to that. Let's start training. Or do you feel like it's lesser? I know Eckhart Tolle, Sadhguru, different people have said if just 2% of the population shifts into this higher state, that's enough for the trickle-down effect to take place

for humanity to grow and enter into the next phase in a positive way. What are your opinions on that? I know that's a fucking wide-open, loaded, shitty question, but I'm just curious to think of, as you look into the world and certainly in the last two and a half years, what do you think we can do as culture? Well, first, thank you for that. Happy to field that one.

I teed up on the tea ball. I fundamentally am in agreement that it doesn't take everybody to change the way the earth functions and the way humanity functions. I like to go to history and find rational facts that can make sense of all of this. So the first rational fact is that innovators innovate technology and technology changes the world. So you go from no stone tools to stone tools. All of the sapiens running around the world in their tribes

at that time didn't invent stone tools together. Stone tools got created. They start to get shared. The whole world changes. Now you find these Aleutian hand axes all over the world where the shape and this real digging tool, cutting tool changes the way humanity functions. The next big invention is the needle. The needle is how we start to stitch things together and you can actually take individual things and put them together and change the shape of things. So people don't understand how important this needle is. There's archaeological record that the needle is actually a technology that's passed on from one species of sapiens to another species of sapiens. It's actually cross species, still the same genus,

but different species of sapiens co-breeding and actually sharing technologies. They share fire, they share the needle all at the same time. Whole world changes. Whole world changes from that point going forward. There's now DNA evidence of all of this too, which is, I think, awesome. Because when I studied it, it was just stories. And now there's actual hard evidence that these are no longer just theories. We move forward in time. The industrialized world comes around the use of machines. It's harnessing nature's energy to change the world. The whole world changes. So the ability to do that comes from one, two, three, two three four five six thinkers at a time there are these innovators who are thinking outside the box um you put that together into

today's day and age and there are millions of thinkers thinking outside of this box there are futurists who are focused on this that's their core mission their soul is here to think about the evolution of the species and what to do about it. They're going to do something about it, whether anybody likes it or not. You cannot put that genie back in the bottle. Human creativity is going rampant now. It's wild. There's global cross-sharing through digital means all the time. The mind share is incredible.

People are now using VR and AR as a means of experiencing that mind share. They're cross-collaborating. Not just you have to move physically from one laboratory to another to do this or one part of the world to another. Technology is bridging all of this together. So we only need a few innovators who understand what needs to change

to be able to invent the technologies that actually get us moving. And I just saw an interview with Elon Musk where he's talking about how now every car company, every major car company is producing electric vehicles. He started that. He decided to do his own thing. And that puts such a competitive pressure on the industry that the industry is starting to change direction. And now we're seeing mass SUVs that are going to be electric. It has positives and negatives that will ultimately show themselves, but it just shows how these

futurists and these technologists create a change-making situation for the world. So when we look at the things that are going wrong with the world, what I see is that what's going wrong were the misconceived or misunderstood consequences, the ripple effects, the secondary effects of the previous rounds of innovation. And I think what's getting really interesting right now in the convergence of AI with computer modeling, with as much data as there now is on how the technologies have created these ripple effects, that we can actually start modeling the outcome of our inventions. We didn't have that capacity before. Before, we were just inventing into the blind. One of the things that blows my mind is how fast things evolve.

So it's just a couple hundred years ago, electricity becomes the light bulb. Now, look at a satellite picture of the world from outer space. We as a collective species dropped all of that electric grid across all the continents in less than 200 years. Think about that. It has changed the totality of the way we see things. So that amount of change at that speed is how fast we can go from things going awry to things going in a direction that are really positive for the collective. Now, because I think about these things and I talk with people like you who are interested and we feel called in a certain way to be positive change makers in this direction, I now know that there are hundreds of people that I met that think along these lines.

What I'm really fired up about is that each person has a personal mission. It's like part of their destiny. It's part of why you exist or part of why I exist. That part feels like people are coming into the maturity of being conscious and aware of that calling and starting to embrace that calling that they just didn't have before. 20 years ago, no one ever talked about it. So for Aubrey to say he feels like it's go time, and then for me to go to another community of thought leaders, and they say, we all are getting the message that it's go time. And then I go to another one over in Europe, and they're saying the same things.

Then I talked to another one in Asia, and they're saying the same thing. I'm like, wow, this really is demonstrative of the collective. The collective is awakening to this idea that it's mission on, but that mission isn't an antagonist. It's not to go fight a war. It's not to go against the grain. It's not to go up against the monolithic systems that are there now. It's actually an evolution of everything. And everybody's part of it in terms of sharing information, sharing technology, mind share, creativity, and I think it's happening. So I welcome it. I welcome it too. There are some cautionary flags pop up when I think of some of the futurists that want to outsource everything to AI,

including their own consciousness, and then live in a body that never ages and live forever in that way. Uh, Aubrey and I have both jokingly said, you know, like drink ayahuasca, you know, like you want to, you want to understand, you want to understand, uh, the infinite nature of reality on a, on a microdose level, even though it's a macrodose, but like to get a taste test of the tip of the iceberg of your infinite nature, there you go. You're, you're, you're infinite right now. You're immortal. You get to change avatars, but, uh, there's no end point in sight. And, um, I think that we have such a gift in our bodies, you know, like I've, I've, I've, I've had a gifted avatar since I was a little kid, but I've felt more and more of that gift express even post fight career. Um, just as I've learned to love myself more and not fucking fight with myself

and beat myself up, but actually take care of myself, the extrasensory awareness that's turned on in nature, the extrasensory awareness that's turned on that allows me to experience synchronicities and get these, you know, to gather ayahuasca level downloads in a sober state. That's only happened in the last five years probably for me. And it's done so with me recognizing the gift of my body. You know, so like to say that we're going to, you know, what is human progress, right? Yuval Noah Harari has a different view of human progress than I do or than you do. And that's okay. You know, I think part of the, you know, the polarity of those ideas is going to give birth, the positive and negative of that literally come together to create something new.

And I have to remind myself of that rather than just pointing fingers and saying that this isn't going to work, this is bullshit. And just really getting clear on what it is that we want to create. Because I'd be stuck in a victim mode if I just looked at what somebody else was trying to create and said, that's wrong, don't do that. I have to then really, really think about that and let it sit within my soul and then let that alchemy come forward as something to birth that's going to be new and in accordance with what I believe to be true about the world, that, hey, no, we don't want to lose these bodies. We want to acknowledge the fucking gift of them and actually see their full potential come out, not find ways to eliminate and pass through them.

Yeah, I agree with that completely. I think the body is infinite technology, and people just don't understand it yet. So we've used these ideas of mythology to try to describe the body, but that's ultimately still not understanding how miraculous they are. The body is the most technologically advanced thing there is that we engage with. So we deny that to create these other kinds of technologies that are actually really rudimentary. And even AI right now is very rudimentary technology. It's just because it's not what we're made of. We externalize that into some really crazy great thing. But actually, the body is so much more technologically advanced, we still can't fully understand it yet.

And so I'm with you. I think the body is where it's at. The body is the infinite gateway. The body is already the nexus of the infinite and eternal. It's already the nexus of the higher dimensional states that we can be and that we can evolve in in terms of our consciousness. And the idea of trying to export that, fixate ourselves as just a 3D thing and not really understand ourselves in our totality, I think is a great travesty. So while other people are going to try to move consciousness into machines and other kinds of systems, they're missing, I think, the fundamental point, like you said, that they're already there. They're using the infiniteness and

they're using the eternalness of them to be able to do that. That seems like a very basic science experiment. Ultimately, figuring out our consciousness itself, ultimately figuring out what we can do with it and use that as a technology, I think is really the next cutting edge field for us to go into. While everybody else does these things, what I think is interesting right now is that the evolutionary tree of technology is going to allow all of these to coexist at the same time. And then you can take your pick. Honestly, I don't want to live of Earth without a body forever inside an AI system. I would find that unbelievably confining. I'm not interested in driving my virtual car around a metaverse forever. I think what comes

beyond this is way more exciting than Earth itself. So my personal feeling is that Earth is a very confined element while you're incubating something very important about your soul. And what comes beyond that is actually much more vast and much more interesting and much more exciting. And so I actually welcome that experience. And for those who want to be encapsulated in whatever rationale they have to stay here, God love them. They can do that. I'm not going to be joining them myself. Yeah, it's interesting. I had my first experience with siluoska, which there's different forms of silawaska but for uh for those that don't know it was syrian rue a couple grams of syrian rue which is an mnaoy

like the vine of ayahuasca and then psilocybin i think we had four four grams of that so it was a it was a decent dose it wasn't you know 30 grams but it was um you know with the mnaoy on board uh potent you know and very purgative and felt a lot like ayahuasca. And as I started to think about these two outcomes, eternal damnation came to mind, right? And I've always scoffed at that. The whole thing is one thing. When you get that, whatever's animating me, whatever soul I have is animating the whole fucking thing. Animism is real. When that becomes a visceral remembering, how could anything be separated from its source? Eternal damnation is a joke. It could never happen. And then as I went a little further into these realms

of, it doesn't matter how vast they are, they're still finite. There's still an end cap within the limits of what the algorithm has been written to experience. That in and of itself is some form of damnation. And if you've stayed there long enough, that could be eternal damnation. That could be an eternal separation from source. And as I really peeked at that, it didn't feel to be a welcoming experience. I'd much rather die and see what lies ahead than ever try to freeze my body, wake me up when you could transport me into a machine and live that way or live within some type of simulation. This is the ultimate simulation. And that's another thing that I gained. I have a couple of different teachers. Paul Cech says that Maya isn't the illusion. It's the illusion, right?

It's the way we know ourselves. It is the thing. Like, it's not just like, oh, hey, this shitty game we play to know ourselves and you really should just meditate and fuck out of here. Then you don't have to incarnate. It's like, it's the only game in town that's worth a shit. And that's been that way, right? It's been that way. So we game in town that's worth a shit. And that's been that way, right? It's been that way.

So we can create, we can be the creators, we can design our own destiny, and we can have a part in working with other, not just being one thing, but actually having individuation and getting to play in a field with other individual nodes of consciousness. And that's the game. That's the most important game. And it is a simulation in one sense, and it is illusion in another sense. And at the same time, it's the greatest game ever created. It is the true gift of being here. It's the true gift of intelligent design that we get to experience in that. And I think that is one of the alchemizing pieces that I grappled with in our work together was really

letting that sink in. The container you set was so magnificent and knowing that this was the play that we were going to reconnect my head to my heart really allowed me to enter into that space of the center of source, which would previously frighten the shit out of me because it was, you know, beyond emotion, beyond thought in a way, beyond a why, if you will, you know, it was just, it just was, you know, and I remember things that I didn't quite understand in the past, like David Hawkins, Dr. David Hawkins talked about, you know, as you move from different emotional states, your view of consciousness changes. And if you're primarily angry, you believe in a vengeful God. If you are primarily in a state of joy, God is love.

And you work your way up this ladder. But when you get to enlightenment, God is. And there's nothing else after that. And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? God is? God is not love? God is just fucking is? Does that mean I kind of meet some crossroads where I can no longer name the thing? And I spoke to Paul Cech after my hell experience,

and I was telling him it's inverting everything I know. It's taking every spiritual teaching I've ever hung on, and it's showing me the equal and opposite is true. And he laughed. He's like, oh yeah, of course. That's because anything you say about God, the equal and opposite is true. And he laughed, you know, and he's like, oh yeah, of course. That's because anything you say, anything you say about God, the equal and opposite is true. That's why the nature of the true Tao is the Tao cannot be spoken. That, the real thing we're talking about right now cannot be spoken because of that, because it's beyond language. It's beyond polarity. It's beyond all that. And as I entered into that space, I stayed in a meditative position and your Icarus really anchored the room. It started off for me very much like ayahuasca does.

And even though there was no ayahuasca involved, very much like that. And I was able to touch my body, hold my legs and just feel grounded in my skin. And I could oscillate back between the center, which was without intention. It was beyond intention, maybe not without intention, but beyond that. And really feel into that space and breathe into it as my body started to have a visceral

tightness, the PTSD that was stored in me from those hell realms and breathe into that and relax into it and then feel into my body and recognize consciously all of the gifts that life has brought me and all of the choice and synchronicity that I have had in directing my life. And that to me was the alchemy of two and a half years of fucking pain and really feeling sideswiped by medicine. The first things that came to mind were when you get the call from God, hang up the phone and Terrence McKenna, the mushrooms turned on me, right? I was like, I know why he said that now. The mushrooms turned on me. The 5-MeO turned on me. Why the fuck did this happen? They were always such an ally. I have

my son and my daughter because of these medicines. And in very visceral, really trackable ways, my family was created based because of these medicines. Their names were given to me by them. I knew they were going to be a boy. I knew I was going to have a girl with brown hairs and brown eyes. I knew that ahead of time, years ahead of time in some instances because of the medicines. So it really felt, it was incredibly healing just to put it that way. And I thank you so much for that experience. Oh, you're very welcome. It's a pleasure to get to help people and it's an honor to get to help you. And I think that's the real fallout or the real progression of so much time doing this. I started in a lineage that focused on how to be able to heal darkness and not just heal illness, but heal

darkness, darkness in the consciousness, darkness in the psyche, trauma, PTSD, et cetera. And this experience of being in the plants long enough, always for everybody has a moment where it feels like it turns on them. Like everybody, it's not that it turned on you, it's that you turned, but you don't know how you turned. Something turned you along the way. And it could be your own evolution. It could be your own exploration, or it could be an outside influence that just flips you and turns you. And the moment that happens without the skills of being able to bring it back, we're lost for a period of time. And it's brutal. And it can seem like everything that was light becomes dark. It can seem like God becomes hell, et cetera.

Luckily for us, we learned how to reorient that. And it's a kind of reorientation. And it's fundamentally core to the body, but it's also core to our consciousness. And, you know, it's a skill that we need to have. I always thought of it like when you see these astronauts in outer space and something goes wrong and the ship is now on this off-axis movement and they have to somehow figure it out and write that thing and get it straight again, that we need to do that with ourselves at literally a subatomic level. It's like the actual emanating of our energy is now overtaking the psyche and it's flipping

our understandings. And those are skills that we learn to be able to do. I think it's a tremendous honor to get to help people with that. I think it's going to be a real problem in this third wave of the psychedelic renaissance that's taking place. And it's one of the reasons that I decided to start teaching these arts again so that we can actually help people with that. Because there's going to be thousands, if not millions, of people that ultimately go

through the same experience you did. I've been through it numerous times, like at least 10 or 15 times in my career, I've actually been through where it feels like everything gets flipped and you need somebody to be able to help reorient where you do it yourself. And so, you know, it's one of the key reasons that we're now very interested in teaching these arts and being able to help people both for their safety and wellbeing, but also to give a positive direction ultimately to this exploration that's taking place around consciousness and the use of psychedelics. to help people both for their safety and well-being, but also to give a positive direction ultimately to this exploration that's taking place around consciousness and the use of psychedelics.

Yeah, it's so important. And it's funny, Paul, Paul, intuitive, he's like, I was like, I don't know, I really can't gather why the fuck this happened. He goes, well, I'll give you one reason. You know, a lot of people that are in this space, you're likely going to have some talks. What would happen if a family member called you up in the same situation two weeks into the darkness and you had no experience coming through that?

And I was like, oh yeah, I couldn't just pass them on to you. You're my guy, but you don't fucking take calls from everybody. And that really set in. And then in the weeks that followed and the months that followed and the months that followed, I was very surprised to hear how many people had gone through a similar experience

and we're now getting messages on breath holds alone in the ice bath and shit like Wim Hof warns against that because that's the only way you can die. And hearing from Jamie Will and different people, psychonauts in the community working with ketamine that also start to work with breath holds, they just hold their breath until they're gone. You can do that. That is a thing where without a grounding cord and without someone there, a buddy system in place, you can leave the body if you want. Some people do because it feels liberating in a sense where you don't have the confinement of the body. You don't have all the pain, physical pain, mental, emotional pain, and the trauma and everything that you've carried through this lifetime and lifetimes past. You say, oh, fuck, this feels better. I'm not going back to that. And I think it's a very

critical time, especially with access to ketamine and access to things that are going to come on board, whether psilocybin comes on board on a federal level or not. We're already seeing that come on board at a state level with decriminalization. And I'm for that, but I'm also very much understand the necessity of expert level tutelage and whether or not we're going to follow the same path you did, where it's fucking just hit the ground running, and you've got 10 years in your apprenticeship, and then continuing to serve after that, I don't know a lot of people have their hand raised for that.

But one wrong experience by yourself or with a practitioner that doesn't know what the fuck they're doing, it can unravel your entire life. And it's critical that we have that expert level guidance. Are you guys, what do you find when you take in people you've blue morphos become wildly popular um you know in part from aubrey marcus and different people that have gone there that have really helped pump that up and and also in larger part because of who you guys are and how you run circles um so that that's always been a draw for me because it speaks for itself. From the West Coast of Peru to the East Coast of Brazil, there's many, many different lineages, many different brew types. And it is truly a mixed bag on what your experience is going to be like.

Amber Lyons spoke about that on Rogan's with being groped in certain ways on medicine and things like that, where it's like it can be a real issue and it's not all pixies and fairies and rainbows. I mean, some shit does happen because we're still dealing with humans that are providing the medicine, but it appears that you guys are one of the safe havens for people to go to in this space and really explore consciousness and have expert level care. How has that changed over the years since you've gone from an apprentice into really being the guide now? Do you feel like the same groups of people are coming through from all walks of life, entering with various things, or have you started to see a shift in consciousness with the people

that you're working with and some of the new problems that are arising or the new things that you must take care of? Yeah, one of the beautiful things about Blu Morpho is that we've been doing this for so long. We were one of the first, if not truly the first center that was offering not just ayahuasca plant medicine, but all Amazonian plant medicine for people to come and experience

the real natural healing plants and these incredible medicines from the forest. And the industry really formed around us. We were kind of a beacon of light during this time as it was forming. And we were recognized by the Peruvian government as a model of how the industry could form and what a center needed to look like. We were the first center to really start doing medical screening for participants to make sure that they were safe participants. All of these things we developed over the years just to make sure that we were always really safe and providing the most professional service possible.

I think that there are the negatives for sure. And we've talked a lot about really listening to what's out there, really doing research, really figuring out who the practitioners are, etc. I think in our case, what has been really unique for us is that I've always strived to improve what we're doing. We've always experimented on how to be able to make our center better. So we experimented on us to be able to ultimately improve over all the years. And really in the last year, I took the time from COVID until now to do an inventory on Blue Morpho and to figure out how we could literally make everything

better. And so we've just been continuing to strive for the best we could possibly be and to be able to provide the best service. And that's still happening. In the last retreat, it was literally one of the best retreats I've done in the last 10 years. It was absolutely fantastic. I've ended up creating now four different brews of ayahuasca to be able to support our retreats depending on what people need. It gives us more precision and sophistication in terms of what kind of ayahuasca they're using and what dose they're getting depending on their arc and their own personal needs. And so these kinds of improvements just really allow us to continue to support the people and give them what we hope to be literally the best experience you can possibly have in an ayahuasca ceremony. In terms of the people themselves and the differences that's coming, I see that more people are interested now in consciousness.

20 years ago, people were really only interested because they had heard about it for depression or anxiety or PTSD. But now people are coming saying, I feel called to learn, not to not learn the medicines and be an apprentice, but I feel called to learn about consciousness and to understand that you can up-level your life through shift in consciousness. And that was an idea that I started to put out there around 2005, 2006. I published a book on it called Journey of One,

which is available on Amazon. And it was about these shifts in consciousness that are natural from participating in these ceremonies. And I realized it was like a true update to your operating system, like your core operating system. And with the right intention could be very, very positive, very fast change to your own life. So it could just take anything in your life that you would intend for, whether it be family stuff or business stuff or your own education or the use of your own intelligence, and it could just up-level it in one night or two nights. And that was just such a phenomenal kind of shift that would be possible. I'm now really interested in seeing how many people are coming for those reasons.

I'm also seeing a lot of people that are now coming, really interested in learning tools and techniques. These are now seasoned psychonauts who've had a lot of experience. They're recognizing that there's something more to learn in terms of navigation, in terms of the container and the way that we hold the container. And so we're really starting to teach that. So I'm in the process of actually launching the Blue Morpho Academy. Apprenticeship, just like you said, the 10 years, the thousand ceremonies, etc., that doesn't really fit into the Western life or the Western needs. So we're actually creating

certification programs and going right into the idea of now a more formal form of education around these practices where somebody can come out of it a facilitator and really have the skills necessary to be able to support others in their journeys and to be able to host ceremonies without it having to have the 10 or 15 years of training necessary in the indigenous style. So what we've done is we've taken the very best of what the indigenous teach, and then we've simplified the way that we learn it, really focusing on the positives of that learning experience, not the negatives. I found out that the negatives are what just take so much time. So if we can actually strip away the negatives and focus on the positives, we can take this 10 or 15-year experience and put it into something that's two to four years

for a full-blown practitioner. And for somebody that wants to come and learn skills, they could learn it in a number of months or a year's worth of commitment, which is, I think, something that's very doable and something that can be shared on a much larger level. So we're finding a lot of people very interested in this kind of training. And so we're going to start to offer the training in January of 2023 and really support the community as the community starts to realize that there's more going on here than just a trip. It isn't just set and setting and have a trip like the way it was described in the 60s. But actually,

once we're in vision, that's when our skills really light up. And that's when the practice really starts. And so whether it's on ayahuasca or psilocybin by itself, or even the use of cannabis or ketamine, et cetera, once we're in the visions is where we can actually start to get the work done. It isn't just jump into the river and let the current take you. But really, there are techniques about how to navigate the space, change energies, remove energies from the room that are there, remove different visions that people are having, doing the kind of reset work that I did with you between brain and heart and that recalibration of your dimensional states and your own energetic states. So I think that that's really powerful, really important, and it's going to now come into the collective.

It's going to ultimately be shared. That's perfect timing. Yeah, perfect timing. I told you, I got my hand raised for the apprenticeship. You could be my Dumbledore anytime. Super cool. Where can people find you that might be interested in these things? You have Blue Morpho's website. Can people reach out to you directly via social media? How can people learn more? Yeah. So reach out to me on bluemorphotours.com. You can write to us. You can write to admin at bluemorphotours.com or info at bluemorphotours.com. You can come to the website and just check out everything that we have going on there. And then on social media, you can find me on Instagram at Hamilton Souther Official and Hamilton Souther Official on Facebook as well.

So you can find us there and we're going to be expanding on other social media presences. But yeah, come find us in those places for now. Phenomenal. Well, thank you. I consider this the first of many podcasts and I truly appreciate you on a very deep and visceral soul level. I love you, brother. I thank you for your work in the world and I'm excited to learn more from you.

Oh, thanks so much, Kyle. It's been a pleasure to meet you. Much love to you as well. I look forward to all that we're going to do, and it's going to be an exciting, exciting journey. We're going to take everything that we've been talking about, and we're going to make it experiential, and I hope we get to start really soon. Yeah, absolutely.

Ditto, brother. Bye.