Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #317 It’s All Nonsense w/ Dr Thomas Cowan

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Dr. Thomas Cowan is a well-known alternative medicine doctor, author and speaker, with a common-sense, holistic approach to health and wellness. He has given countless lectures and workshops throughout the U.S. on a variety of subjects in health and medicine, and is the author of six best-selling books, including "The Contagion Myth” co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell, “Cancer and the New Biology of Water,” "Human Heart, Cosmic Heart,” “Vaccines, Autoimmunity and the Changing Nature of Childhood Illness,” “The Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care” co-authored by Sally Fallon Morell, and “The Fourfold Path to Healing” (with Sally Fallon and Jaimen McMillan). Dr Cowan informs us about the fallibility of virology. He goes into detail about the origins of virus “discovery”, isolation, and all the nitty gritty there. He also lays out the mechanisms of the heart and your circulatory system.    ORGANIFI GIVEAWAY Keep those reviews coming in! Please drop a dope review and include your IG/Twitter handle and we’ll get together for some Organifi even faster moving forward.   Connect with Dr Cowan: Website: DrTomCowan.com  Instagram: @drcowanspowders    Show Notes: Aubrey Marcus Podcast #331: Why People Give Up Freedom w/ Prof. Mattias Desmet  Spotify Apple "Deschooling Society" - Ivan Illich  Wise Traditions Podcast 429: Myth-busting Modern Biology Spotify Apple     Sponsors: PaleoValley Some of the best and highest quality goodies I personally get into are available at paleovalley.com, punch in code “KYLE” at checkout and get 15% off everything! Bioptimizers To get the ’Magnesium Breakthrough‘ deal exclusively for fans of the podcast, click the link below and use code word “KINGSBU10” for an additional 10% off. magbreakthrough.com/kingsbu  Lucy Go to lucy.co and use codeword “KKP” at Checkout to get 20% off the best nicotine gum in the game, or check out their lozenge. Caldera Lab is the best in men’s skincare. Head over to calderalab.com/KKP to get any/all of their regimen. Use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

We're back, baby. I got the return of Dr. Thomas Cowan. Tom, as he'd like me to call him, which I think is fantastic, is somebody that I've been following for a very, very long time. He was a medical doctor in California for over 30 years. He has authored some of my favorite books,

including the Nourishing Traditions Book of Baby and Child Care, which I have said is the only book any upcoming parent really needs to read. If you're a parent, you'll know that there are a laundry list of books. People are like, oh my God, have you read such and such? And before you know it,

you got to fucking stack a mile high and you don't want to read any of them. And personally, there are a lot of them you don't need to read until the kid's six years old or 13 years old anyhow. So this is why I only recommend this one book. It really has a lot to do with nourishment, how mom should be nourished, how dad should be nourished for sperm motility and mobility and the general health of one's physical system before they even try to get pregnant. Then when they are pregnant, then postpartum, then what does the kid need when the kid gets sick? Because kids get sick all the

time. Their bodies are constantly working with their environment and working things out. And the better we can help them with that, the stronger they become for it and the less dependent they become on Western medicine. All these natural remedies, things like that. And even most importantly, you know, the most natural of all remedies are food products, right? This is where we learned first to feed our son, who's now eight years old, soft boiled egg yolk with a little bit of sea salt, mashed up egg yolk, liverwurst, liver pate. These are some of the softest foods we could give him with the highest nutrient content. And he, for eight years, has been living on organ meat and egg yolk and doing quite well. Many people think when you have kids that the kid's palate should be something they like. So they give them applesauce and a

bunch of garbage and refined carbohydrates that the kid's not ever been introduced to before. All they've had is milk, which is somewhat sweet, somewhat savory, and some general combination of all tastes. And you introduce sweet, and all of a sudden that gears their mouth towards one type of food. Anyways, this book really dispels a lot of bullshit in something that could be the most important decision you ever make with your kids. What medicines do I give? What medicines do I not give? So I have a deep respect and gratitude for Tom from that. He also wrote human heart, cosmic heart, which really debunked the idea of the heart as a pump. We didn't dive into that in our first episode. So I like to pick his brain on that in

this episode. And then really, you know, what Tom has stood out for in the last three years is debunking virology, which is fucking, that's a mouthful to say that. But that has been something that Tom has done a phenomenal job on. I will link to the episode that I mentioned in this podcast he just did with none other than the Nourishing Traditions folks, the guys at the Weston A. Price Foundation. Of course, the link there is the Nourishing Traditions book series that Tom helped do for baby and childcare with Sally Fallon Morrell as the head of the Weston A. Price Foundation. Weston A. Price was somebody that Paul Cech

had leaned heavily on for his understanding of health and wellness from a dietary standpoint. And as you know, my education comes not exclusively, but mainly from Paul's work and the people he's learned from, which includes the Weston A. Price Foundation. So this podcast, I love their podcast, by the way, too. They have been pulling no punches, similar to mine.

They're shorter episodes, about 40, 45 minutes each. And they've had some great episodes. They've had Catherine Austin Smith on the podcast who I definitely wanna get on. She's a bucket list. So if anybody out there knows her, please get that information to my team. I'd love to have her on. She did a bucket list. So if anybody out there knows her, please get that information to my team. I'd love to have her on. She did the documentary Planet Lockdown and many other great

guests. So I love their podcasts. Follow them, give them a like, give them a subscription. Listen to that podcast with Tom too, because he's absolutely hilarious on it. And even though we use some of the similar analogies on this one, I really try to broaden the scope and take it a few different angles. And Tom's great. I rehearse some of the stuff. If you haven't listened to the first podcast we did, it's fucking awesome. It is really awesome. We talk about homeschooling versus unschooling. We talk Ivan Illich and his book, Deschooling Society. And he gives plenty of real, his analogies are perfect because they just land in a way that I really resonate with. But anyway, you're going to love this episode and it's going to bend the

way that you think. And you might say, how can that be true? What about this? What about that? And you might start looking into things. But remember, whenever an expert's telling you something, it's important to ask how they know that. How did you come to that conclusion? And if they can't tell you, it doesn't verify that they know what they're talking about. That's really one of the main takeaways that I've learned in the last three years. If somebody's telling you something and they can't explain how they know it, they don't know it. That's the takeaway from that. It doesn't mean it's not true. It could be true, but they can't prove it, that it's true. So they don't actually know what they're talking about.

And that's an important one. It's an important one. And Tom's understanding of that is that it's more fear mongering, right? It's fear porn. It's whatever you want to call it, right? And what does fear do? If you saw any of these documentaries or if you listen to, who's the guy, the guy's name that does the mass psychosis. He was on Aubrey's podcast. Jose or somebody will figure that out. You can link to

that podcast in the show notes. Why keep us in a state of fear? Well, this mass formation, as they call it, is really easy to accomplish when people are in a state of fear. And it's kind of one of the tenants you would use to control a large group of people if you wanted to control a large group of people. And I understand, I still have listeners that disagree with that. I can think of a few right now off the top of my head who are listening to this and I'm smiling

because they're very close friends of mine and I love them and I love them dearly. And I love the fact that they listen to each of these podcasts because at the very least, there's an imprint of expansion there. You don't have to agree with what I'm saying. You don't have to agree with what my guest is saying.

But if you listen all the way through, it'll give you a better understanding of why I think the way that I do at the very least and why certain people who disagree with the narrative over the last three years agree with thinking that we should disagree with the narrative over the last three years. Anywho, I could keep rambling on and on.

There are many ways you can support this podcast. First and foremost, share it. Sharing it's the easiest way. If you know one or two people that are interested in this, if somebody has mentioned to you Dr. Thomas Cowan's work or any of this stuff in the past, say, hey, there's a new one he did with Kingsbury. Check this out.

Get other people to listen. Subscribe and get a hold of these podcasts. Every week they come out on Wednesday for the most part, unless I'm traveling and doing stupid, crazy shit. Occasionally I'll miss an episode, but for the most part, every Wednesday, you'll get a new one if you subscribe. Leave us a five-star rating with one or two ways

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I talked about Waldorf and homeschooling, and you corrected me and talked about unschooling and Ivan Illich's Deschooling Society, which I've since read and is a fantastic, fantastic book. And of course, many other topics. I had just heard you recently back on the Wise Traditions podcast, and you were talking about the new biology. And it was great because immediately I thought, man, I got to deep dive this with you. You had some amazing analogies about unicorns and things of that nature, just to refresh your mind. But one of the main points in this was that, and I think this had to do with the fact that we've never actually isolated a virus, that we've never actually seen the thing that we're claiming it to be. And even so far as to say that we have never figured out what the immune system actually is, if it does exist.

So I find this to be incredible because there are many, there's guys like Del Bigtree who I've had on this podcast and different people, you talk about the freedom fighters and people will point to different avenues of how this came to be. Was there a lab leak? You know, was there other things that are going on? Gain of function research. All these things are such big topics. You know, even reading into the real Anthony Fauci

from Bobby Kennedy and so many topics that go into that. But I'd love for you to just break down really what it is that you're seeing and what we're not seeing, and that all of science seems to be agreeing upon that isn't necessarily something that we've proved yet. Okay. So let's go through then. Let's talk about, so there's a number of things, lab leak, gain of function, all that stuff, and viruses, right, and isolation. So let me go through this quickly. I've done a bunch of longer podcasts on this,

and we can go back and go through any of them in more detail if you want. But so, and I'm going to try to differentiate between when I'm quote speculating and when I'm talking fact, right? Okay. So virology rests on five principles or five, there's five foundations and they sort of have layers. And here's what I mean by that. The first layer of virology, which is this sort of what's called the germ theory, which I now call the disproven germ hypothesis, is that sick people make well people sick or animals, right? And we've all had that experience. You know, I was fine and then I went to a party and then I got sick. And my Aunt Bessie got sick when she was with Uncle Fred.

And my children went to chicken pox parties and then they got chicken pox. And so we've all had that experience, right? Now, the principle, and again, I would encourage you if you disagree with what I say here to stop and say, that doesn't sound right. But the principle is that people or animals who get the same symptoms at the same time in the same place, that means that something was transferred from one person or animal to another, right? That's the principle behind that. Agree? Correct. Yeah, absolutely. Agreed. Okay. So I put a hundred rats in the basement and somebody puts rat poison. Next day, 10 rats bleed to death. Next day, 10 more rats bleed to death. Next day, 10 rats bleed to death. Next day, 10 more rats bleed to death. Next day, 80 rats bleed to death. They're all dead. Same symptoms, bleed to death. Same place,

the basement, same time. That means something was transferred from one rat to the next, right? I love the analogy. This is why I was like, I was just chomping at the bit, getting you back on because of that podcast. The analogies are perfect. They're absolutely perfect. I think one that you had used in the past was, if a dolphin gets sick and then a series of dolphins get sick, there's nobody saying what did the first dolphin have

that passed to the other dolphins? They ask what's in the water. Right. Like what's happening in the environment here? Right. And the same thing in the environment here? Right. And the same thing happened with scurvy, right? So sailors got, their teeth fell out. They went into heart failure and died one after another.

They quarantined them because obviously something was being passed from sailor to sailor. That didn't work, which is why this is important not to get wrong, right? Because then you do stupid shit like putting a sailor in a quarantine instead of giving them a lemon, and then the whole thing gets better because they had scurvy, right? if you disagree, an individual person cannot tell whether by same symptoms, same place, same time, whether there was some transmission from one to the other or some common exposure that you may not have realized, right? Correct. You cannot tell. And so, and people have realized that. And so up until they say 1940, there was, you know, I have in my possession 20 studies that have done controlled studies, put sick animals or sick people with healthy animals or people and see if they transmit anything. 100% show that they didn't.

We have asked anybody who believes in the disproven germ hypothesis, show us a study, properly controlled, you know, sick animals in the same place, and then well animals so it's not crowding, it's not arsenic in the air, and they can't find a study. There is not a study published in the scientific medical literature that proves contagion, period. That is a fact. So it's a disproven hypothesis. Therefore, there's nothing to study about viruses, right?

There's nothing contagious. Therefore, there can't be a virus. But anyways, they did go on and then they took like the snot or fluids from people who are sick and they got what they call the filter. So now that's the first principle. Our second principle is filterable agent. That means take lung fluid, filter it so you get rid of bacteria and cells and funguses and anything else. And you just have the liquid that would contain things the size of a virus, right? You expose that in a normal way to an animal or a person, like eat it or spray it on them or something, and show that those animals or people get sick, right? That would be the second proof. Here's another fact. There is no study that demonstrates that fact. Every study that's

been done has shown that it doesn't work. And the only studies that anybody has ever pointed to were like how they proved polio was contagious. They took a child with polio, right? They took their spine, ground it up, filtered it, took the liquid and injected that into the brain of two monkeys. One monkey died and one monkey got paralyzed. They say they transmitted a virus from the child to the monkey. First of all, there's a whole lot of other things in the filtrate besides a virus, right? Proteins, enzymes, maybe toxins, nucleic, anything that's soluble in water. Second of all, they didn't do a control. How do you know that injecting 20 cc's of milk doesn't cause a spinal hemorrhage or something. That's not science. And there's no part of that that proved there was a virus, right? And so there is no study that shows filterable agent causes

disease. That is a fact. So that's the second pillar of virology. Now let's talk about the one you said, isolation. And let me get you to help me with this. So Kyle, how do you isolate and know that a hammer exists? Pick one up. What do you do? Walk me through the steps. I would go into the garage or the hardware store. I'd look for the hammers and I'd find a hammer and pick it up.

Then I'd know that the hammer exists. Okay. Now you want to know what the hammer is made of. What would you do then? I might do some research or at least observe with my eyes. There's probably some wood or rubber in the handle and some type of metal, something strong as the hammer. And now you want to know what the hammer does. So how do you do that? Well, I'd either watch some YouTube videos to figure out how to do it, but I'd start hammering

stuff and see how it works. Got it. Now, the isolation part of that is key, right? So tell me if you agree with this. If you want to know something exists, you go to the ecosystem where you expect to find that thing. In this case, like a toolbox, right? Correct. You look for the thing that you've defined what that is, and then you take the thing out of that ecosystem and have it by itself, i.e. isolated. Right? Correct. Then you can analyze it.

You can find out if it's got metal or rubber or whatever. And then you can hit a nail with it and see if the nail goes in the wall. Right? Yes. Same with a frog. Go to a pond. That's the ecosystem. Now, instead of picking it up, here you use a net.

Right? And you don't analyze a scoop of pond water, right, to find out what a frog is made of. You don't get the whole pond. You just pick out the frog and then you have only a frog that's called an isolated frog, right? Correct. And if you didn't do that step, you would never be able to know what a frog is made of. Correct. Or what a frog does. Because you don't know if it's the pond or something else. The same with a nanoparticle. Doesn't matter the size. It's just the technique of isolation is different.

One is just reach in with a hammer. The other is with a net. And with a nanoparticle, it's like a magnet or some other chemical procedure. Right? Right. Now, let's talk about a virus. How do they isolate a virus? They've never gone to the ecosystem like your lung or a chickenpox lesion or your mucus or a herpes blister.

Because they did that for 20 years when they had an electron microscope and they could never find a particle. So here's how they isolate a virus. They take mucus from, say, somebody with measles. They put that on a cell culture, monkey kidney cells. They take away the food of the monkey kidney cells. They add antibiotics and antifungals, which are poisonous to kidney cells. They see if the kidney cells die in two to five days. And if they do, they say they've isolated a virus. Now, then the original experiment, they did that whole thing, except they didn't use anything from anybody with measles.

They just took the kidney cells, took away the food, and added the antibiotics and some horse serum, and the kidney cells died. Exactly the same. And so that shows that it wasn't the mucus which has millions of things in it, right? It's got proteins and nucleic acids and enzymes and poisons and who knows what in the mucus of somebody who's sick. So that's what they call isolation in virology. I think from your reaction, it sounds like you would agree that that is utter nonsense. Yeah, 100%. 100% pure nonsense. So not to mention names here, but when Big Tree or Kennedy or Mercola or somebody is saying they've done gain of function by taking viruses

and manipulating them, there is no evidence that that's true because they've never isolated a virus to be able to gain its function. And if you ask any of them, or I could name a hundred other people well tell me how did they isolate the virus they don't know and if you say did they do it like this because that doesn't sound like isolation to me that's they've never shown a purified single thing like a hammer or a frog or your ear or anything. Therefore, they cannot study it. And so let's say, well, so that's the third pillar of virology. It's nonsense. They have admitted they have never found this particle in any biological fluid. You cannot do it, they say, which means you can't find it. Third part, fourth step is they say, look, we have a picture of it, electron microscope picture. There are numerous studies where they've shown pictures of dead and dying cells, kidney cells, etc.,

that are indistinguishable from those pictures because they've never isolated it in the first place and said that's the thing. And if you haven't isolated it, you can't get a picture of it. So that's the fourth pillar, total nonce. Fifth one, well, we have the genome. How do you find a part of something that you've never seen the whole thing? If I say to you, I know this leg came from this frog, you might say, how do you know it came from the frog? Have you seen the frog? No. I've never seen a frog. Well, how do you know it came from the frog? Have you seen the frog? No.

I've never seen a frog. Well, how do you know it came from the frog? Well, I mean, what would you say? How do you know that genome came from this thing if you're admitting you've never seen the thing well where else could it or we we've got 20 million different variations of the genome gained a function etc the genome well but how do you know that any of them where is the origin of these nucleic acids well they're from the mucus in the lungs how do you know there's a virus in there well where did the genome come from i mean it's it's circular reasoning nonsense so why do they why do they perpet you this myth? There's something in this freedom community, so-called freedom community, that is scared to death of the truth that here's the real story here, folks. There

ain't no viruses. They made it up. There's no gain of function. there's no lab leak, there's nothing to give people vaccines about measles, chicken pox, Ebola, HIV, there's no HIV, there's no chicken pox, there's no smallpox, there's no SARS-CoV-2, there's no Ebola that's gained a function. There is no gain of function because when you look at what they're doing in those labs, it's just pure cell cultures mix in some sequences and call that gain of function. They've never released anything that's spread amongst the population. That's all just fear-mongering. Pure and simple. And by the way, those are facts, not speculation.

It's easy to, I mean, for even amongst the things that I've read, and there's still, I think, a lot of good that came out of the real Anthony Fauci and just exposing him over the course of his career. The fact that, you know, at the same point can be made along with HIV, you know, never been isolated, AIDS, perhaps the reason that community was dying at such a fast rate was because of the medication

they were actually given. Again, that's a whole different topic, but I think there was some good in there on that. It doesn't, I mean, you know, the ancient follow the money trail, right? It's not super hard to figure out why we would all be pushed towards this one direction to buy this one particular thing.

And even, you know, larger than that top down look, you know, you shut down society for a while, that hurts the middle class. There's a whole lot of rabbit holes you can go down when it comes to that stuff. But it is, it is mind blowing to think that there's really no one saying what you're saying. And at the same time, what you're saying is, is, is true. There's, we also haven't seen this thing. We, there's, there's, you can't see the magical unicorn, right? Nobody's fucking seen it. Like, so, so why, why, why come nobody's talking about that? I don't know. I don't get thing. You can't see the magical unicorn, right? Nobody's fucking seen it.

Like, so why come nobody's talking about that? I don't get it. You know, we're still spinning circles around, you know, the next thing too, like Gates is talking about the next one that's going to come and you'll listen then. And it's been a real mind fuck the last three years to kind of see how things have panned out in, in your, you know, and having had you on the podcast before and followed a lot of your work, when we think of illness, are we actually just seeing detoxification from something environmentally? Um, so, you know, I mean, here, here, here's what's happening to people who haven't heard this. And I want to really just put this starkly because you, and I'm talking about to your listeners, are now confronted with one of two possibilities. Or in other words, you get to choose, quote, who you believe.

Now, you will be confronted with, on the one hand, you know, logical, rational, scientific observations and facts. On the other hand, you will ask yourself the question, things like, how do they get everybody to believe this? And how did they pull this off? And how did they get so many people to sign on to this? And I have so many smart friends who believe this, and on and on and on. And again, correct me if you disagree, or those are political or economic or emotional or psychological reasons. And let's just say for the sake of argument at this point, I don't know how they got everybody to believe it, right? I mean, I actually think it was a pretty amazing feat, and it's not the only thing, as I'll get into in a minute. They got people to believe in a whole lot of things.

In fact, the director of the CIA, a guy named William Casey, said, when our disinformation program is complete, everything, and I want to emphasize that word, everything, the American people believe will be a lie. Everything, not a few things, everything. So how did they do that? I mean, I don't know. They bought the media and they have psychologists, and I don't know, right? But when you do facts, like, you know, another thing that I've done, I mean, so the answer to your question, what does it mean when you have a symptom, right? Well, it's very simple. So here's a very, you know, and it's easiest to explain this from very simple examples. You get a splinter in your finger, you don't take it out. What happens next? You make pus. I mean, I'm a medical doctor, right? I went to medical school. I was an ER doctor for a

while. You know, I'm familiar with the rap. So I learned pus means infection, means bad, means give them an antibiotic. So right, they have an infection. Now I would say that's the body's strategy for popping out the splinter. Right? Does that make sense? 100%. All of it. The inflammation, the pain, the inability to move it, and then one day you're ready. You take a hot bath or something like that and the pus is what's going to drive it out. Yeah. And how do I know that's true? Because if you leave it and the pus gets the splinter out, the whole thing goes away and you never have it again unless you get another splinter. So cure's the problem. If you take an antibiotic

and leave the splinter, I guarantee it'll happen again and again until then you get a tumor around it, which just means a growth, and then you have to take it out surgically, right? So you can see that the symptom that we call the disease, the POS, is the therapeutic attempt. Now, let's do a little more complicated one. You put splinters in your lung. That's called breathing in pollution and toxic stuff and arsenic and all that. And then you get debris in your lungs. And I always asked in my medical practice, what would I do if I was that body?

So I would make an inflammatory reaction, maybe some pus and mucus, and I would flush that shit out of my body. Right? Yeah. I mean, if I ate something, I'd poop it out with diarrhea. That's not like rocket science, right? That's pretty simple. So you go to the doctor, he says you have bronchitis because you have inflammation in your lungs. So he gives you an antibiotic because he says you have a virus, even though he has no ability to see a virus or even verify whether that's true. It's all based on theory, which has been disproven, by the way, but he doesn't know that. So then you get, you keep the debris in your lungs, right? Because you thwarted your body's ability to get it out. Now, when you're a smoker who's

continually putting debris in your lung, you do that twice a year for 30 years, right? Every year you get bronchitis twice. You go to the doctor, he gives you an antibiotic, you stop it, and then you get a bag of debris in your lungs, right? It's like if you have a garbage can and you put garbage in your house, you put it in the can and you take it out to the curb. Somebody says, taking out to the curb, Kyle, that's a bad thing. You got to keep it in your house. Why? Because you might get hurt. You might trip and fall or get hit by a car on your walk to the curb. Well, that's true, but it's not very like. So anyways, you keep piling up the debris,

and now you have a bag of debris, which is called cancer. They say, see, you smoked, and that's why you got cancer. You smoked, you put debris in, and somebody stopped you from getting the debris out, meaning your doctor. So that's the role of the doctor in today's society is to make people sicker, right? And they're good at it because they learn how to do that. So then you have, it's not aberrant cells. It's not genetic. It's not,

it's just toxic debris building up in your body. And if you want to not do that, you A, work with your body when it's trying to get rid of stuff and so-called detoxifying. And that could be physical poisons or emotional abuse or delusional thinking, which pretty much everybody has, or, you know, or injected stuff, you know, that goes in and poisons your tissues. And so we have very much creative ways of poisoning ourselves. And your body makes certain reactions to get rid of it. That's what we call illness. And thwarting it is the way to get sicker. And that's pretty much as simple as that. Well, I love that. And that was something that I really resonated with in reading you and Sally Fallon Morrell's book, Nourishing Traditions

Book of Baby and Child Care. I know I talked about that the first time I had you on the podcast, but how that was such a, you know, just, it's like the Bible on all things health and wellness for mothers trying to get pregnant, mothers during pregnancy, mothers the body changes, there's going to be some type of big change that takes place. And that may appear as illness, but there are ways that we can aid in the child's ability to fight through that on their own. And there's ways that we can hinder that, as you just mentioned. Yeah. Illness is a maturation process and a cleansing process. It's the inevitable therapeutic strategy for when something has not gone quite right. That's all there is. And you can see every natural therapy, you know, sweat lodges and vomiting and purging and fasting and different herbs to loosen the mucus to help you cough it up. They all absolutely follow this strategy. The whole homeopathy to get rid of stuff from the top down, et cetera.

You know, they all absolutely follow this way of thinking. This is not new. This is just disharmony and your body's symptoms are the attempt to recreate something that's better. That's all there is to it. I like that. That's a lot for people to let sink in, I'm sure. And I certainly hope that people, after hearing it the first time on this podcast, started to rabbit hole your work. I find it awesome. One thing that we didn't dive into too much, I think, on the first podcast was Human

Heart, Cosmic Heart. Is that the name of your book? Yeah. And I would love, because there was another, you know, longstanding, still standing medical myth on the function of the heart. And I'd love for you to break down, you know, really, really what are some of the key takeaways that you wrote about in that book? And coming from the anthroposophical background that you have, having studied Steiner's work

and worked within it, what is the purpose of the heart and what is happening in the body? Right. So just to put this in context, because I didn't really realize this, but one of the principles of my whole life, I've heard that it's a kind of spiritual path, although I didn't realize it, is to, it's called the sort of no-no path. It's also like Sherlock Holmes said, the way to learn something is to discard that which isn't true, don't worry about what is true because that will emerge at the end of the rainbow. So the thing that keeps us from learning and progressing is not, you know, this was said,

Mark Twain said, it ain't what you don't know that gets you. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. That's the problem we have. We walk around knowing for sure about all these different things, and it turns out they ain't so. And so, and I also would contend, and I use the example of, if you've ever studied rain and clouds, very complicated, like rain, water is heavier than air. So why does, why do clouds form and float around in the air? You know, they're supposedly made of water and then the rain comes from the clouds. And so I can say with confidence, I don't know how those clouds form and float around in the air and rain forms.

So somebody comes along and says, Tom, I know how there's rains because elephants are floating around in the sky and they pee down and that's why there's rain. And I would say to them, how high up are the elephants? A mile. Are they pink elephants? No, they're gray elephants. There's like 10 per mile, right? Okay, so I know what they say. So I go up with a helicopter where they say, not a single elephant to be found, even though it's raining. So I know at that point, it's not the elephants. That's wrong. And I still don't know why it's raining. Right? I know it's not the elephants, but I don't, that doesn't tell me what happened. So with your question, there's that heart book has two basic principles of, or two things I was quote debunking. One, the heart is a pump. Now,

what do I mean by that? They mean the heart is a pressure propulsion device. That means the movement of the blood is because of the squeezing of the muscle of the heart, particularly the left ventricle. Right? That's what it means. And the second one is blocked arteries cause heart attacks. That's why we have stents and bypasses and statin drugs. And that's why the alternative doctors do put you on diets, et cetera. It's all about unblocking your arteries. So let's look at the first one. So we have literally thousands, hundreds of thousands of miles of blood vessels,

usually pretty thin, like capillaries. And the stuff in there, like red blood cells and platelets, are about the size of the internal diameter of the vessel, right? So you got this one pound organ that's supposedly pushing sticky fluid through 100,000 miles of blood vessels. And all it's got to do is go like that. the blood somehow moves through a hundred thousand miles stopping halfway through the trip and then starting again and coming back like i don't know about you but that doesn't seem right to me because first of all if it stops halfway because it has to unload oxygen and food and pick up carbon dioxide and waste, how did it get going again if the motive for the movement was the push from here? go from San Francisco to New York on a bus and the bus stops in St. Louis and doesn't have an engine in the bus, I'm not getting on the bus because I don't know how it's going to start

going again, even if it was downhill from San Francisco to St. Louis, because it's got to be uphill from St. Louis to New York. And if there's no engine, in other words, there's no push from St. Louis, that can't happen. Anyways, why would you put a pump where the blood is moving the fastest coming in and the same speed fastest coming out? Right? You don't need a pump just let it go whereas you need a pump when it's stopped so that's the first thing that got me this cannot be and some you know people have estimated the amount of pressure that you would have to generate through the squeezing of the wall is about 30,000 times higher than the pressure generated by the left ventricle. Now, here's the second one.

So we're talking about an amazingly strong push, right, that's propelling this blood all the way around your body from up down to your feet and then back again. So if I have a, and this is through flexible tubes, right? Blood vessel. So let's say I have a spigot outside your house, right? Water spigot. And I put a U-shaped garden hose like this, right? You see it? And so it's U-shaped and it's no water. And then I turn up the water full blast, right? And the garden hose can bend or straighten or whatever. What's going to happen to the garden hose? It's going to start to straighten.

It's going to start to straighten, right? Yeah. Just because you push more water through there. So when you look at the outflow to the left ventricle, and you see there's an aortic arch which goes up and then down, during the systole, which is the pushing phase, it bends in. In other words, when you turn the garden hose on and the arch bends in. The U gets tighter.

The U gets tighter. The U gets tighter. That's messed up. I was going to say a different word. I curse plenty on this podcast. You can let it loose. Right? That's not possible. And I remember I used to work in a cardiac cath lab and I asked the

cardiologist, how come the thing bends in? You'd think it would straight. Well, that's just the way it does, they said. Right. But that tells you that that's a suction, right? It's sucking, not pushing. And so, you know, there's other factors involved. But if you, there is no possible way that wall is pushing blood through anything.

What's happening is the blood is starting moving from the place where it stopped. And we could get into that if you want. But it's got to do with the dynamics of water and separation of charges and the negative charges in the water repel each other and they start moving and then just like a river that goes from a wetland to a single river it goes faster and faster as it goes gets compressed and it's going fast as it comes to the heart the heart serves it acts like a dam and it has expandable walls so it builds up pressure and then on the other side of the dam gate is negative pressure right because there's nothing there and so the wall expands the pressure builds up the pressure differential opens the gate it sucks the aortic arch in, and the blood essentially falls down to the tissues where the water electromagnetic field charge differential expanding the tank, opening the gate, let it fall. It's a perfect system, not some one-pound thin-walled pump pushing 10,000 miles.

That's just fairy tale nonsense. I love that. I loved the thing that you opened with on the spiritual path of letting go of everything that's not true and what is true will be revealed just due to the fact that it really feels like we're in a time where so many things are coming to a head of, well, this is bullshit. That's not true. And over and over again, from food to finances to you name it, you know, like every, every one thing that's been, that most people can agree on is the last three years, we've seen the cracks in every system. Right. When you, you think the same as you did three and a half years ago about what's true, you are not paying attention. That's true. What, what, in your opinion, you know, there's been, there's been a lot lately of a resurgence through Steiner's work, especially amongst my friends,

Paul Chek, who I think you've been a guest on, did a five hour expose on Lucifer, Christ, and Aramon. Steiner had at least two different lectures on, on the nature of Aramon and, and on, you know, really the return of this, these archetypical or spiritual forces. Having really worked with Steiner's stuff in medicine and in food and different avenues, what do you think, I don't even know if you do think, but do you think about these? I try not to think. Okay. Okay. What is your understanding of them in the world that we see today? And is it something that you pay much attention to, or is it just more removal? Because when I think of spirituality, that's something too that's new to me, was the potential of not

just one dark force, but a couple of different things that try to keep us centered if we're to do it correctly? I mean, there's a bunch of things in there. First of all, I don't anymore speak about any relationship with Steiner or the anthroposophical movement. I don't know if you know what they're, they essentially, they being the leadership of that movement, essentially swallowed the whole COVID thing lock, stock, and barrel. Holy shit, I had no idea that was the case. I know Dr. Bronner's paid the employees $1,000 each to get the jab.

I know there's been some other ones that were kind of head scratchers, like you guys are an organic company. What the fuck are you doing? This makes no sense at all. And, uh, and yeah, so, so that's, that's news to me. So, so we, we have long ago parted ways. Uh, and so I, I don't want to speak for them or even about them, or I don't have anything to do with them or any of that stuff. So I would prefer to answer that question from the way I see it. It has nothing to do with, because I don't want to believe what anybody tells me I should believe anyways. And I know that they, you know, well, I'm not even getting into that.

Tell me what, tell me, tell me what you believe about, about the world, you know, in terms of how spirit influences it and how you connect in that way. So, you know, for me, Kyle, it's, it's actually all about definitions. So you, so the first thing I would say is, what do we mean by spirit? Because one of the problems between people and within an individual, as far as I see, I mean, I see, and you know, our whole like new biology clinic is based on what is actually real. Like when we treat your finger with the POS, we're treating not the theory of infectious disease, but you got a splinter and that made your body make POS. I have no doubt that that's true. And therefore, my response is to take the splinter out. I don't have any question in my mind or wherever it is in me.

I don't even know if it's my mind. I don't even know if I have a mind that that will work. And I would call it reality-based approach to life and medicine and thinking. So let me see if you would go along with this as a kind of definition of spirit. So we obviously have the experience of physical body, of physical substance. We work with it, you know, And let me back up a little because I've been in discussions with people who say, oh, the world is all spirit and the physical body is just an illusion and all that. And I've actually asked them, which do you think is more real to you your left hand or the idea of a spiritual journey between incarnations now i can tell you that from my point of view i think it's my left hand because i have a lot of experience dealing with it and it does certain things that

I predict like comb my hair and you know I don't want to get into some other things you know right I catch a baseball you know yeah all kinds of stuff, I mean, the spiritual incarnation thing, I mean, it's interesting, but I can't say that I can work with that in an effective way. So that's the first thing. Now, the second thing is, do I think that non-physical things have an impact on these things I'm calling physical, even a profound impact? And there I would say I also have experience because like sound, which I can't see it. I wouldn't know that it's really there unless I have ears, but seems to have a pretty profound impact like on my emotions. Like I'll start crying if I hear hallelujah or something, you know, and light. And you can make batteries work with with harvesting the electromagnetic field and on and on and on

to the point where i think you can verify that there are different um what i would call different frequencies of density and this physical layer is simply the most dense. And that's how it makes sense to me. Now, I remember I said I was going to say when I'm theorizing and when it's fact, I'm theorizing now that what the world is made of is various levels of dense frequencies. Everything from things that are almost imperceptible, at least, or are imperceptible to me, to things that are clearly perceptible because seemingly the vibrational frequency is slower and therefore the phenomena is more dense. Now, I can then imagine that in these different layers, there are many different phenomena that happen in these layers. Now, whether they're called good or evil, or whether that's not quite the way to see it, because if you think about like i've often talked about the gift of covid like there's i

would have never read harold hillman if i hadn't been for covid and i would still think there's ribosomes and synapses in nerves and cell membranes that have receptors like opiate receptors and DNA is the mechanism of heredity. And I can tell you, I can prove to you, none of those things exist or are like we say. Absolutely. They're all frankly bullshit. Because the way we do science is, you know, we forgot that the way you look and the way you think determines what you're going to find. So are these entities that are in these different vibrational layers evil because they're trying to, you know, blow up Maui, for instance? Right? to blow up Maui, for instance, right? I mean, you know, or is that part of the awakening process so we never turn over our agency to governments or corporations ever again? I don't know.

I'm glad for the whole thing because even though there's tragedies and people get hurt and people get killed and that's all extremely sad and heartbreaking, I get that. And it hasn't happened to me, in a sense, all these different layers. So I don't talk about Lucifer and Aramon because I don't really know what I'm talking about. Right? I don't know what I mean by that. I just, I know there's forces that are pushing things in a way that I don't think we should go, but also are helping us. Like, how else are we going to wake up?

You right? You know, I mean, you know yeah i mean you know i don't know it's i mean one of my things now is if you turn your agency over to the government no matter who's running it it's not going to work because they don't have your interest at heart they never have they never never will. And, you know, everybody has to claim their own sovereignty. And that's, if anything, that has been the COVID message for me. Claim your sovereignty. Or a friend of mine says, turns out there's only one disease, and that's being a victim.

Victim consciousness is the illness. If you think it's happened to you, if you turn, it's the viruses that got you. It's the bad guys. Not to say that they're not putting stuff in the air and stuff that shouldn't be there and stuff and food. But more or less right now now we still have the choice i'm not doing that shot nobody's holding people down quite yet they are spraying stuff in the air

and putting up wireless stuff and that's harder to deal with that that's like what Illich talks about as, you know, what's the word he uses? I can't own perspective, listening to you, it seems like you're really paying attention to what's trackable, what is real, right? And the terminology, being clear on that, is really, it's important now, especially as language begins to change and meanings change and shit like that. It's very important. So I appreciate that. It's a very grounded approach. And the way to know that, whenever somebody says, oh, well, this is gain-of-function lab leak or something, how did they do it?

It's a simple question, right? How did they do the lab leak? How did they make that engineered virus? You know what their answer will be? They don't know. Now, then we're talking about belief, right? You're believing somebody who says that's what happened. They already told us that anything you believe is a lie. And so if you know how they did it, which in that case I do, I know what they did in those labs because they publish it. And that is not engineering viruses. They're doing cell cultures, putting synthetic sequences in there,

and saying that that makes the viruses genetically altered. That's not true. Same with, you know, I tell you another thing, almost all of these things, which we hear about, that are scary, they're fear-inducing and make you think that the quote bad guys have more power and more understanding than they actually have here's another example like you've heard of gmo stuff right you don't need gmo stuff there is no way they've genetically modified any organism to do anything. Because the whole theory of genetics is flawed. How do I know? Because they say there's genes, right, that code for proteins.

One gene codes for one protein. And then if you modify the gene, you'll get a different protein. That's the theory. So they do the human genome project, allegedly, get 200,000 proteins, 20,000 genes. If you do arithmetic, you can see that there's 180,000 missing genes for those proteins. So where'd the code for those proteins come from? And then they say that the DNA is the same in every cell, even though it's been disproven that it isn't the same in every cell. Then they say it's stable through your life, therefore you can genetically modify it. It's been disproven. It's not the same. It changes minute to minute. So these are all theories. And when you understand how do you make a GMO

thing, you just inbreed corn, you mix it with some E. coli, and the E. coli make a bacteria. I'm sorry, make a protein that keeps the Roundup from eating it. That's not a genetic modification. Those shots can't genetically modify you because it doesn't work like that. And all these freedom people who say, oh, you're going to get genetically modified, ask them. And, you know, I actually really hope people like you are, you know, you talk to these people, right? You interview them. They say things like that. By the way, how did they do that genetic modification and come out with a protein? I don't know. Well, then what makes you believe that they did it? Right?

You got to know. You got to know what the method was. And to your point, you know, on genetically modified stuff, you know, whether they're correct and it's actually becoming some type of modification or not, we know the main issue with that is the glyphosate. It's holding more roundup, right? And that is a toxin that we can all agree upon that we shouldn't be putting into our bodies through the air, through our soils, through the water, through our food. And that can cause problems, right? But it's not necessarily, you know, this frankenfood tomato that's the issue. Right. That's a good point because I didn't say that I think GMO food is good.

And I didn't say I thought it was healthy. And I didn't say that I think they should be doing this. What I did say is that's not the mechanism. And that you could say, what difference does it make? We still know it's not good, just like you just said. It makes a big difference because it makes you think, oh, my God, these people are really smart. They know how to modify the essence of my being. You know, one of the things I do when I give talks, you've probably heard, DNA is a double helix, right? Everybody knows that.

That's the whole theory of how it works. Do you know the paper that originally proposed that theory? Uh-uh. It's a famous paper, Nature, Watson, and Crick. You've probably heard them. Yep. So I could read it, but I don't want to find it here. They say in there, so a double helix means a certain twist of the backbone of

the molecule, right? So that's what it means to be a double helix. They say, we assumed a rotational angle of 20 angstroms. And I remember reading that for the first time and I thought, wait a minute. You mean you didn't measure that there was a rotation of 20 angstroms that would give you? No, there's not a measurement in the whole paper. They said, if you assume that it rotates every 20 angstroms, then you come out with a double helix. Right. But you didn't show that this chemical has a 20 angstrom rotation. You just assumed it was a double helix.

By the way, because his wife had a vision that dna was the core of heredity and it's a double helix so we all know we should believe our wives so that became the backbone of science wow well you know it's made up the rotational angles. They didn't measure anything. There's not a measurement in the whole paper. Wow. I do find it interesting that I had heard about the vision and you read the DNA and the Cosmic Serpent by Jeremy Narby or different people like that.

And it's longstanding shared visionary experience in certain circumstances of a spiral lattice, of a ladder that descends from high to low. These are symbolic of entering into a different realm. Right. Yeah. It's all nonsense. And by the way, if you ever have a chance to ask him how do you know dna is a double helix

he won't know there it's also based on a famous picture by rosalind franklin called photo 501 so this woman took pus and got some white blood cells, got the nucleus, extracted it with different chemicals, and exposed it to x-rays for 63 hours, got a picture of an X, and said, that's a double helix. Now, here's what's interesting about that. A group of grad students 20 years later did the exact same procedure with the spring of a ballpoint pen. Right? You know, the spring. They got the exact same picture. So there's just as much reason to think that our hereditary material is a ballpoint pen spring as DNA.

So we've reached the one hour mark and I know you're busy. We both got stuff coming up. I'd love for you to talk about what you're into now. Do you have plans to write another book? Obviously not too long ago, you wrote The Contagion Myth and your center is working on the new biology. We want to talk about any of the stuff that you're into now before we go? Yeah, so we, you know,

under the prodding of my team, they said something like, you know, Tommy, keep talking about this stuff. Why don't you do something about it? Well, okay, what do you want me to do? Let's make a course. We'll go over all this stuff. What is the heart doing? What is it not doing viruses there's

no immune system you know they say it the shots you know natural immunity versus vaccine you can't be immune to something that doesn't exist right it's nonsense it's like having unicorn repellent you know and it works because you haven't seen a single unicorn. I mean, it's a it's a comic show, really. So we have a curriculum. So health practitioners are interested. People can learn the whole thing as best I know it. And then we have a clinic that we will treat people according to these principles.

And we're just starting to ramp up. We have one practitioner and some movement stuff, you know, like that's similar to, I think, what you're doing. And we're going to see if we can, a new foundation and a new way of doing healthcare. Because the way we got now, it's all based on nonsense. It's just one nonsense, you know, viruses and then the immune system and then the receptors and the neurotransmitters that Prozac and the whole bit. It's all crazy. Absolutely. Well, where can people find you online? Where can people connect with you and dive deep into your work? Dr. Tom Cowan.com. Dr. Tom Cowan.com. Well, Tom, it's been an absolute pleasure having you back on

the podcast and I hope to get you back on in the future as well. I always appreciate everything you have. I appreciate you, Tom. Thank you. you