Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #320 Finding Longevity in Relationship w/ Cathy Courtenay

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

Cathy Courtenay is self described as… Relational Lover. Communication Junkie. Connection Cultivator. I’m continuously in wonderment about the complexities of being human and how there’s as many perspectives as there are people on the planet! I’m deeply passionate about helping people move beyond their limitations in order to enjoy the deliciousness of the full buffet of connection and love! I’m a certified RLT (Relational Life Therapy) coach and a long time Circling Method Facilitator as well as an avid student of LIFE. I use all the tools to guide others in long-lasting relational transformation. It’s time for us to step into the highest versions of ourselves through our relationships and create a better, more connected, loving world.   In this episode Cathy talks about her awareness of the disconnect in her world growing up in Apartheid South Africa and a family move to upper class New York City. Her path into circling, helping improve communication and working with Individuals, Couples and Organizations. Her and I really go back and forth with some stories from Tash and I and she points out the tools, tips and tricks that she sees being used and makes recommendations based on her experience. Go check her out, work with her, pass word along of how incredible it was and live beautifully. Love yall!   ORGANIFI GIVEAWAY Keep those reviews coming in! Please drop a dope review and include your IG/Twitter handle and we’ll get together for some Organifi even faster moving forward.   Connect with Cathy: Website: CathyCourtenay.com  Instagram: @cathycourtenay    Show Notes: "Nothing Compares" Sinead O'Conner Doc  KKP #311 Neurohacking Longevity w James Schmactenberger Spotify Apple   Aubrey Marcus Podcast on UFO Disclosure w/ Pippa Malmgren Spotify Apple   "Three Waves of Volunteers and the New Earth" Dolores Cannon Circlinginstitute.com    Sponsors: Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! Hostage Tape Nasal breathing is some of the lowest hanging fruit for your health. Head to hostagetape.com/KKP for your third month worth of tape free!   Bioptimizers To get the ’Sleep Breakthrough‘ deal exclusively for fans of the podcast, click the link below and use code word “KINGSBU10” for an additional 10% off. sleepbreakthrough.com/kingsbu  Neurohacker Collective Run these guyss Qualia Senolytic, a two day per month cleans to flush out all your “zombie” cells. Head to neurohacker.com/kkp for 50% OFF and use “KKP” at checkout for an additional 15% off your first order!  To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

welcome back to the show everybody today's guest is kathy courtenay somebody that i've had the amazing opportunity of getting to dive deeper with on a professional level as uh an expert coach that we've brought in into our fit for service events over the last year and she's been in every single one of them from sedona last year to lockhart this spring to Montana and in May and in between she's actually come out and worked with us privately and I've been blown away every fucking time I get an interaction with her and today I get to have an even deeper dive with her on a personal level which is great because we as much time as we've spent with each other, we have not had the benefit of having a one-on-one conversation uninterrupted. So it's been an amazing time getting to know her.

And she has such a wealth of knowledge. She's one of the people that you meet where there's a palpable, there's a really palpable feeling on the level of wisdom the person has. And then it radiates through everything they do. It radiates when they're on stage, it radiates in their interactions with people and it radiates in me through how I feel. And every time I've done any of her exercises or gone through any of her programs,

there's a really palpable feeling that shifts where I'm like, Oh shit, we're getting, we're getting to the core here. This feels different. This feels a lot different. And I've really, really appreciated getting to know her. She's just a fucking incredible human being. We had a blast on this podcast. I'll for sure have her back on.

We dive deep into her work and knowledge and her trajectory, really. I love hearing what makes people people, what made them into the person they are today. So she's got a really deep background. And one that I didn't expect, you know, is different because she's South African. And I don't often think of what life was like for someone who's just a smidge, a hair older than me, growing up in South Africa, how different that would be. I recently watched with Paul Cech. I was out for a 62nd birthday

and we were watching the Sinead O'Connor documentary, which is heartbreaking, but it shows her. And I remember growing up, you know, hearing what all the media thought of her and shit like that. And they, of course, show this in the documentary. What I didn't get was her story of what it was like growing up in Ireland

until you watch the documentary, it's called nothing compares. I think it's on prime and is a fucking whole different world in the 1980s in Ireland than it was in the 1980s in the U S like absolutely two different planets. And you'd think, I would think, I mean,

I have Irish ancestors in my bloodline, Betty O'Reilly, my grandmother, which was later changed to Riley. A lot of them dropped the O when they came across the pond. I would think that is damn similar. I'd think it's similar in England. I think it's similar anywhere where the imperial England or Britain came and established a place. And I know that wasn't the case with Ireland, but I mean, for South Africa, for any, anywhere where there was a, you know, some colonization, some stamp of, Hey, this is ours. I mean, that's really what happened in the States. And, and obviously there's wildly different experiences depending on

which place you live in the States is such a vast area and wildly different experiences on what happened to the Native Americans, even though there is really one story to be told of genocide. But modern culture, I figured modern culture would be the same or similar. And it's fucking worlds different. So really cool. Watch that documentary. It's mind-blowing. And they don't cover everything with Sinead. Unfortunately, her story is way more fucking rough

than what they include in that documentary. If I can find a good article, I'll attach it in the show notes. So watch the documentary first, then read what they didn't include. And that's even more heartbreaking. But yeah, for Kathy growing up in apartheid is fucking mind blowing to hear that story.

So you guys are gonna love this podcast. Share it wide. She's got a lot of medicine. I highly encourage you if you're listening to this and you're like, I wanna work with Kathy, do not hesitate to reach out to her. She is one of the favorite people I've ever worked with. And we've brought in many people in five years, over the five years in Fit for Service. We have three or four events a year. And in every one of those events, we'll bring in three or four

amazing experts from different fields. And Kathy is up there with anyone we've ever brought in as, as far as I'm concerned. And so if you feel the calling to work with her, absolutely do. And that could be on the business side of things. Uh, that could be on the relationship side of things for personal relationships, one-on-one relationships, whatever the case is, she is a gem and, uh, and I love her deeply. So support the show by sending it to a friend, share it far and wide, leave us one five-star rating on iTunes or Spotify with, with, um, one or two ways the show has helped you out in life, how it's changed you, um, what you've gained from it. And the best, the best review will get a free package from me at the end of the month.

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called Qualia Senolytic. Listen, I have a lot in my life that depends on me staying in my prime physically and mentally as long as possible. And I value the most research-backed ingredients known to science for a better aging process. To be personal, I just got back into jujitsu, quite honestly, because my son is doing it.

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And as a listener of the Kyle Kingsbury podcast, use code KKP at checkout for an extra 15% off your first purchase. That's N-E-U-R-O-H-A-C-K-E-R dot com slash KKP to try Qualiacinalytic with code KKP and start aging on your terms. Without further ado, my amazing friend, Kathy Courtney. Kathy, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Kyle. It's so good to be here with you. I'm so excited to have you here. We, like Guy, who I just got to podcast with, have really had the opportunity to get to know each other in pretty cool, unique settings where, you know, we're, you're either teaching circling or working on different aspects that, that crap the whole room open and working

in fit for service. So I've really been able to see and witness your medicine firsthand. And then at the same time, you've been on the receiving end with me. We were partnered up in Montana for Fit for Service when Guy and John Vervaeke ran us with the Dialogos into Dialectica or Dialectica into Dialogos. I forget the order there. And that was cool because, you know, you hadn't, I guess you hadn't done that before. And we got partnered together with a couple other people. And it was really awesome to be, you know, rookies instead of coaches right next to each other in the practice. And I feel like those, those circumstances have been amazing. Actually, my first time in circling, a similar thing happened with another coach. I got paired with Anahata,

who you've met in Sedona and is just an incredible medicine woman. We're going to see her here in October. She'll be at our event and her and I are going to run a little soul wander on the land. So we're really excited for that. And so, yeah, I just feel blessed that in the last year, we've really been able to deep dive. And then of course you came out and worked with us privately. You worked with the farm team and you worked with the service team, the warrior poet team, and we really got to plan and forecast. So there's so much there to unpack from your beautiful medicine bag. But I just want to say, first and foremost, thank you so much for everything. Thank you because you are absolutely changing lives in a way that is palpable.

It's visceral. I feel a weight lift when I'm in your presence. I feel a weight lift after I go in your presence. I feel a weight lift after I go through conversations that are led from you. And, and that there is something there. I don't have that every day, especially when people always talk about podcasters will say how unique the conversation is in a podcast because there's no interruptions and there's nowhere else. Not even dinner can give you that. There's a waiter or there's a cell phone or something that pulls you away. And so I appreciate that, but even dinner can give you that. There's a waiter or there's a cell phone or something that pulls you away.

And so I appreciate that. But I also really appreciate my time with you because that's on an order of magnitude deeper. You know, there's a depth to it and a quality to it that I don't get to experience in everyday life. So I just want to say that. As I mentioned to you before, you know, this podcast kind of has a similar arc to each one. And I'd love to hear about what life was like growing up for you. What choices did you make from an education standpoint? What were the big pivotal turns that took you in the direction that you're in? Because

like Guy, it doesn't seem like there wasn't a college for this. You know, there wasn't something you could pick out in the courses manual at a university where you're like, we're going to do this now. You know, like you guys really, you've made it your own thing and created something from nothing, but clearly there is substance there. And so I'd love to hear about that trajectory. Thank you, Kyle. Well, first I want to just say, oh yeah, all those layers that we've had so far and how beautiful it is to be able to drop in in these really deep ways in these short moments. But what I was so excited about coming into this call today is you and I, like we've definitely had these sweet moments together and we had the circling

and all that kind of stuff, but we haven't really had the space for an hour-long conversation to talk about this stuff. So I feel all kinds of giddy inside of me. And I'm so grateful to be here with you. And I really appreciate your heart, your ability to really show yourself and be vulnerable and the way you've showed up in all those spaces and just feeling a lot of appreciation for you. So thank you. And where do I come from? That's a good question. So I have this sentence stem that I often offer in my like circling or relational evenings. And the question

is like, what is a coping strategy that you learned growing up that's now become your superpower? And so I love this question. When I look back, in South Africa, in apartheid. So I grew up in this really weird mix of kind of living a first world life in a third world country where 75% of the population were black and were oppressed by the white government. And so I had that in my environment, as well as kind of this British background. My family, you know, South Africa was a colony until the 60s of the Brits. So in my family, you know, that was very, very evident. There was a lot around politeness, persona, this very particular way of being. And I can remember as a small kid, as a small kid, exactly the pinky. Pinky's up. Yes. Have your tea. The pinky goes up. Your teacup has to sit

just right. The spoon has to sit right on the teacup. And that's just one little part of it. But also, I can remember as a small kid, feeling really like a lot of dissonance in me that we had a black maid and a black gardener, and that they were calling me madam, when I was eight, nine, ten, and they were my seniors. And that I would go to a white school and the only Black South Africans I would see were the groundskeepers. And somehow inside of me, like the combination of that and then being in a house where, you know, with this kind of British politeness and appearance, I could feel so much tension always. And no one was talking

about the elephant in the room. And I was just so sensitive to those dynamics and the things that weren't being said that I became highly attuned to them. And then also seeing the discrepancy of like this white government that was really religious, but oppressing, like not only oppressing, but torturing 75% of the population. So it literally hurt in my little body. I was really sensitive to it. Fast forward, 1987, the height of apartheid, my dad had an opportunity to move to Rochester, New York. He worked with Kodak at the time, and they pulled everything out of South Africa because of apartheid. And I moved to this like, you know, privileged, suburban, upstate New York in Rochester, New York community. And so it was like a really abrupt change and where politics and all of that had been my life, you know, it had been part of daily life.

Then all of a sudden I'm'm transported to this experience where nobody knows anything about South Africa. And they're all wearing polo shirts and khaki shorts and loafers. And it was just like such a weird contrast. And I very quickly had to adapt to what was happening there in order to belong. So anyway, I found myself, like when I went to college, I studied dance and then like found myself on this track where I kept seeking these alternative pathways, really seeking freedom from all those restraints and trying to make sense of what I was experiencing before. So I did everything. I studied dance. I dove deep into like a somatic body work program for four years, where literally my final thesis was a whole piece around how to transcend our genetic coding. And that was back in like early nineties. And I went to see Bruce Lipton speak and, you know, I know, and I got obsessed about like this idea that we can actually,

that we're more than our DNA and that we can really transcend our genetic patterning, you know, and, and that was way before like epigenetics was talked about and all that kind of stuff. So I kept just following this thread. And when I did that somatic body work, I was like, fuck, how do I talk about this and actually make money from it? Nobody knows what it was called body-mind centering. So I was like, I've got to dive into massage. People know what that is. And so I went down a whole body work train and then moved out from the Bay Area to Asheville and kind of dove into some other things and followed my intuition. I saw this this woman was coming

to Asheville I was connected with her somehow on Facebook and she was coming to do a workshop with Maladoma like a grief workshop and there was something about her that called me and so I private messaged her and I was like hey you want to meet for tea while you're in Asheville? And that conversation literally changed my life because she was recently trained with Guy at the Circling Institute. And she was like, there's somebody I need you to meet. And so that conversation led to me reaching out to Guy. And instantly there was this like brother-sister connection with Guy. And at some point he said to me, like I had two small kids at that point and I couldn't go to the West Coast to do the whole training. And he said to me, there's something really important about this connection. And I want to train you like regardless of whether you can come or not so

let's let's just dive in so I had this really amazing opportunity and experience to almost receive transmission from Guy and before I knew it he was pushing me in front of the rooms like here you lead here let's do this training and before I knew it we were sharing we were co-leading a certification program in Asheville so as I was developing my leadership and facilitation skills with Guy I was also really deeply like learning my circling my circ circling skills and doing that all at the same time. And he created this amazing bridge for me. So I'm deeply, deeply grateful to Guy and all the work that he's done. And learning circling, it was crazy. It was like, oh yeah, this is exactly how I've always wanted to relate, but there's actually a thing for it. And it just gave me this full permission to dive deeply into this like authentic

way of being, like really dropping into the relational field with somebody like healing so much of my own need for being seen and being understood and and really accepting a lot of my own exiled parts and once I was able to do that then I was able to really like learn to put myself in other people's shoes and then really get interested and curious about how they see the world. And then like, it just, it just went on from there. And then, you know, from there I gained the confidence, I gained the relational skills, I gained this way of being with people. And then I started to work one-on-one with people. And then I got really interested in working with couples. And so I dove into some work at relational life therapy. The founder of that work is Terry Real

and got certified in that. And then at some point, I realized like, yeah, there's something about relationship, whether it's with myself, the relationship with myself, the relationship with my partner, or my family, or my community, or how I'm seeing nature and the world around me, that's all kind of rooted in the same place inside of myself, the same tools, the same way of seeing things, the same way of being. And so then it just started to expand. And the funny, the last part of my story that I'll tell you and how I got to fit for service, I remember back in the early days of the pandemic, like being so disgusted by the narratives that were being fed. And I knew that wasn't the way, but I also wasn't like really wanting to go down deep rabbit holes. And that's when I found Aubrey actually, and started listening to his podcast because I was really enjoying kind of the gray area conversations that he was making space for. And about three episodes, four episodes in,

I remember saying like, oh yeah, he's going to find circling. And I'm probably going to be in that space at some point. And literally, a couple months after that, I received a text from Guy saying, hey, I'm going to be on this podcast. And I've been invited to go and circle and I would really love for you to be there. And it's so funny. When you guys were all supposed to get together, I know you didn't make it to that original circling two-day experience. I actually, it was landed on my 50th birthday. And my partner at the time didn't want me to go, and I can't believe it. Like, I guess it wasn't the time, but I wasn't ready to say goodbye to that relationship, so I said no the first time, and then a couple months later, you know, Sedona came up, and now it's a year later,

and there's been all this beautiful unfolding and all the relationships that have come with that. And I've just been like following all the breadcrumbs. And here we are. That's so dope. It's fun. I think of somebody. I think it was on Guys podcast where it was a different one. Somebody was asking me kind of like the it was guys.

And I was like, have you read The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho? And like, I didn't read that as a kid. I read it only a couple of years ago, but I was like, holy shit, this is exactly like my life. Like you get the breadcrumb, you say yes to it. And then everything pans out. There's a whole new world there. And then you get another breadcrumb in a, you know, we put ourselves in these positions, right. And we trust the intuition when we get the God nod. But, it's not like it's just, you know, being served on a silver platter to us. And it doesn't mean that doesn't come without hardship or, or, or work, but it does seem like there's a thread there, you know, of clicking synchronicities where, where you look back and you're just like, damn, that's dope. Like, so there's a guiding hand in all this. And that's

so cool. Cause you, you, you definitely, like the description the last two years is really exactly how I can feel like my life is gone. So that's so cool. Yeah. Actually, the other one that happened was probably when I came to Texas in March for one of the summits, I had another gnosis drop in. I was like, I have a feeling I'm going to be somehow like a relational guide for some of the team. I didn't know how, didn't know where, didn't even try. And like a couple, maybe like two months later, there was a little door that opened somehow. And then I followed that breadcrumb. And like literally within weeks, there I was sitting with the team and feeling completely like, yep, supposed to be here.

Like, so it's so much fun. It's so much fun to look back at those things and really get like, oh, my gosh, like, I don't need to worry. I don't need to worry so much. Like so much time is spent in that space of like, you know, is it going to be OK? Like I like just that worry energy. Sure, there's like actions you need to take. There's skills you need to grow. All the things, you like actions you need to take, there's skills you need to grow, all the things, you know, you need to show up, you need, you need to do all of that. But like

in those moments of Wari, I really wish to, and it's less and less now, but I wish I could go back to my, you know, younger self and like soothe, soothe a part of me and say, just hang on, sweetie, you're not quite there yet. It's okay, it's coming. So, yeah. Take a deep breath. It pans out. It's going to be awesome.

Yeah. You can think it is. You said when you met the first woman who introduced you to Guy, that she was coming to speak to Maladoma. Are you talking about Maladoma Patrisso May? The author of The Horror and Spirit? That is so cool. Did you get to meet him before he passed? I did not. Sadly, I didn't, but he was in the

Asheville area. And my friend, that was my friend Alita. And yeah, she came out to do a grief workshop. And if I'd only known back then, but I missed that opportunity. Yeah. I had Michael Mead on the podcast, who's just a brilliant poet and author. And we were talking about initiation. And I said, one of my favorite books was by this guy, Melodomo Patrisso May of The Water and Spirit. And he told this awesome story where they got connected from a friend and he was really brought in to be his mentor because he was really depressed working at a university full time. And then of course, this becomes like this beautiful friendship where they both get to learn a ton from each other over the years I'm like how fucking cool is that like how how cool is that

that's so awesome um and it speaks volumes to like where Michael Mead is that like how did you become Michael Mead well you know I was doing all these things I fasted for a long time and then this thing happened you know and it's like yeah that things. I fasted for a long time. And then this thing happened, you know? And it's like, yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. It does. And there's something really, what I'm coming to understand now is that the more we drop into our essence

and like what our path is and the sort of what we were here for and get out of the way, those sorts of opportunities just keep showing up. And it's just about like recognizing that God nod and saying yes and trusting your instinct and like, you know, you just keep doing that. And somehow the hand is really there to help that process because you're meant to be doing the thing you're doing and the guides and all the unseen come in to support that because that's what the world is needing. The world

needs your particular signature in that particular way. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that came up for me while you were talking about, while you were talking about, you know, all the proper, you know, everything that you had to, then the elephant in the room. And I think about that now, like I watch, it's funny because teaching my kids now what proper manners are loosely is not the same thing as like etiquette class,

which a lot of women would have to go to as young women. And, you know, like that influence from the empire more, more or less, right. Like and where that touches and how it imprinted different parts of the United States, like the South was always very proper. And I loved the scene. I don't know if you ever watched it on Oli G where Borat goes to learn manners in the South. It is the best thing ever. Like I was in tears watching it's

still one of my favorite scenes out of all his all his improvs but um oh my gosh thinking of that makes me think because you know the contrast is perfect right like circling to me if i was to just in a nutshell describe it it feels like i'm peeling layer after layer after layer of myself until I get to the core. That core is exposed to the person in front of me. And if they've done it right, they've done the same thing. They've they've peeled layer after layer after layer until we see each other for who we really are and and feel each other. And on on seeing doesn't quite capture it. Right. Because it's it's all the way through. There's a visceral there's a visceral feeling that takes place when you get to the center and it seems like the way you were raised the way many people were raised from from empire is is to add layers like you're

adding layers of persona of the mask of the shoulds of of this is what this is how we live this is what makes us civilized and shit like that. And so it's really, as you were describing that, I was like, oh, this actually makes perfect sense. You had layers just fucking thrown on you, like blankets, and then you just started peeling them off and you found the thing that would peel them all off. Yes, I love what you're bringing up. Like there's multiple things there.

There is something that I do actually appreciate about some of that, because I think there was also some grace or some sense of grace that was offered or elegance that I did receive through the line of my mom, that like, that is part of, that is actually a part of the essence. So there's pieces of that layering that I've had to sort through. I actually love my manners. I love that I can be invited to any room and I know how to show up. And when we talk about our kids, I was recently with a kid that didn't have any of those manners, you know, like some of those feral kids that you come across. And I get where the feral kid syndrome thing comes from. It's like, it's a pendulum swing from too many manners and too much restriction. But there is something just beautiful about a kid that can really say thank you and have manners and all that kind of

stuff. It's just really hard to sort through that. And with my own kids who are now 15 and 20, you know, I look back at how I parented them in the early days, and I still had a lot of that in the background, you know, like at my dinner table with my dad and my family, dinner was probably my most stressful time of the day because my dad was literally sitting there like a hawk watching every single one of us. And there was a constant, to my brothers and my sister and I, take your elbows off the table, pull your plate closer, hold your knife and fork like this. I mean, constant. And my sister and I would sit there in so much nervous tension that sometimes we would get that little nervous giggle. And that was like the worst possible thing. And we would

have to work so hard to contain that giggle, which now, of course, as adults, we can have a lot of laughter and you know have a little cannabis and laugh about laugh about the old times but um so for my own parenting like learning the balance of that and i've actually even said to my youngest daughter recently like i am sorry i am sorry for the background of that that is now kind of contributed to a people pleasing or like, uh, you know, a way that she might feel she needs to show up. Um, that is like a little extreme in a sense. So I apologize for that. And, and now there's a new layer of like how to really hands off that and see where it's coming in and show up right now in parenting in a way that she really gets to be fully who she is. So I just wanted to name that. And then I wanted to go back to what you said about circling because that's really like that felt really, really powerful to me. So the big overarching thing about the layers and layers,

and then really seeing both you with your unlayered and being in my unlayered place and that kind of like naked vulnerability and all the like strategies and all the ways we've we've learned to kind of control our connection and our communication and when we put those aside and we really are just relating like really authentically relating without knowing what's coming next, you know, that way of being feels so important at this moment in history. I was listening to one of Aubrey's most recent podcasts with that woman, Pippa.

Yeah, that was a great podcast. Oh my goodness. Aliens, let's go. Yeah, holy crap. I'll link to it in the show notes. If you haven't heard, I'll link in the show notes for people. There was so many aspects. I just didn't love the title of it

because it was a little alarmist. It was like World War III and da-da-da-da-da. But there was so much more to it. And what I really got from that conversation, they actually touched on it, was with the increase in pace in technology and AI and all the things and how AI can go in, you know, towards the light and the dark, right?

Like an expression of humanity. It feels that much more important and urgent that we as humanity and our relational field and coming to this more human approach of being together, that we do that quickly, that we shed and we move away from the polarization that's happened, from the individualistic way of being, and come more into an us perspective. And so this ability to shed those strategies and to come into this naked truth and honesty with each other feels super important. Yeah, we got to talk a little bit about that. I think on the first or second time we were hanging out at the events and so much one of the things they speak to, too, as well outside of AI is just the pace of technology

and the amount of access that we have, right? Like the cell phones, there's so many draws, so many things that are pinging us to take our attention away. And you can get lost in who you are on Instagram or who you are online. You can get lost in the, which are, you know, as real as you are online, it's still a persona. It's still not, you're not,

they don't get to see everything else that happens, right? They get to see the one year anniversary with me and Tosh. They don't get to see the arguments and how we work through that. They don't get to see the, you know, the elbow grind that parenting can be, right? Other parents know it, right? They're like, yeah, it's, it's a grind. I mean, and they might think in them to themselves, well, they look like they figured something out, or they might say, no, they're in the grind too, if they know better, right? So I think there's, there's think there's a lot there, but it reminds me

of the Hopi prophecy where they spoke about the different cultures, white people being fire. So white people spreads the fire land to land like imperialism and that fire spreads. And it's a good thing. Fire clears the land, right? And there's positives there. But these four elements start to work together. If they don't work together, humanity enters a very dark time, right? If we acceleration in events and such an acceleration at the speed of light that the wise ones will know to slow down, to actively slow down in the face of that. Right. And I think circling and what you're doing is you're actually, you know, in peeling layers, it's forcing us to slow down and come home. It's forcing us to discard all of the extras, all of the speedy, now, now, now, all of the erratic thoughts and the knee-jerk responses to things and just come to the quiet center. And from there, that is an entry point into exactly what they're talking

about. It's an entry point to connection. And that connection is the only way that the four groups actually come together and learn from one another. Because if it's still modeled around the old, then there's no entry point there. It's still win-lose dynamics. What can I get from them? How am I going to come out on top? All that type of thinking. Absolutely. What I want people to really get is that this isn't a big, like, have to be a big game changer,

you know, big, big personality with a huge platform to make positive impact. It really starts in your own relationships, in your own household with the people that you love. And there's very specific things, like very specific, simple, yet not so simple things, you know, not so simple because we're caught in our defenses. We have relational trauma. We're protective of those owie parts of ourselves. We haven't even fully accepted all of who we are. So there's so many tools and things, but there's a couple key things that literally can be game changes inside of your own household. And when, for instance,

like if you're in a partnership, a romantic partnership, you know, it might be good enough, but there's things that you can do to make it more great and to go into more of a conscious place together. And I really believe that creating conscious relationships has like a really big impact on not only your family, but your community. And then it just spreads. I mean, we all know what it's like when you're in a healthy relationship. Like I'm sure you and Tasha get this kind of feedback. I know not everything is always rosy, but you two have a beautiful, sweet bond. It's evident. And I can see it with your kids. I can see it around you. So your relationship is really, it impacts, it has a ripple. You create, you know, and you're a model. And so I think if we can really tend to our relationships with our loved ones and with our

children and with, you know, in teams, if you work with a team of people, like, it really, really matters how we're relating to each other. And one of the biggest things that I notice, and it goes back to that elephant in the room, that the doorway to that change is often the thing that you're avoiding. It's a thing that you're avoiding seeing, saying, looking at, addressing. Like that thing, that prickle, whatever it is, you know, maybe there's an act, like a behavior that your partner is demonstrating that you don't like, but you're afraid to upset the apple cart or for whatever reason, you just kind of adapt around it, but then resentment builds and there's less honesty. And then there's all these negative impacts from that. So it's the thing that you're most afraid

to address or say or whatever, that is often the key to more depth of connection, closeness, and transformation. You read my mind because I wanted to ask about relationships. And when you started taking those courses on relationships and diving in deeper into that, you said the previous partner didn't want you to go on your 50th birthday. And I've seen you. You're still with Mark, correct? Yes, this is before Mark. Okay, I've seen you with Mark.

And I'm like, these guys are fucking awesome. Like, I feel that glow around the two of you, the way most, as you described me and Tosh. And that's really refreshing. Like, it's really awesome to be in the presence of a couple that you can tell have sorted some shit out. Like you can, you know, communication styles, you know, just everything, everything seems to be in, there's a harmony there when I'm around the two of you.

And so my, I was wondering, because you just took it there in relationships, there's, there's, there's nothing more important than that. Like literally your relationship to yourself, how you relate to the world, how you relate to people one-on-one. And, uh, are you familiar with Dolores Cannon? No, she was an awesome woman who, who was, uh, um, she looks like everyone's grandma, you know, like she's just this awesome lady. She passed away a few years back, but she had written a number of books. She was, she got deep into a certain type of hypnosis where she could now talk to the higher self soul, that kind of thing. And so she wrote many books. Uh, one of them was called the three waves of volunteers in a new earth. And it's, it's out there for people that aren't like the woo shit, but it's awesome because

thousands of people she had worked on, it started with like, um, you know, smoking cessation, alcoholism, sex addiction, and just the regular run of the mill bullshit to help people heal from that. And then it started going really deep. And one of the things she said that most souls asked was, you know, if they knew they had a purpose in coming in this time and space, they would always feel something similar. Am I impacting enough? Is my reach broad enough? Right. And the answer every time from her high self was if you only impact one person, you've planted a seed. Right. And that has a ripple effect on everything. So I take that to heart. That was like right when I read that, I was like, oh, yeah, like full body resonance.

My whole body said yes to that. I think we can oftentimes get caught up, especially in the world of how many followers do I have? How many likes when we used to have likes, you know, like how many thumbs up on YouTube. And just, it is a refreshing thing to realize, like my impact on one person is an impact on the all. And if I can focus on that, then I can, I can change the world by changing my relationship with this one person. And, you know, I'm sure you've rabbit-holed the psychology around relationships and parenting. The relationship mom and dad have is a bigger impact on the kids than anything you say to them. You know, you can tell your daughters what kind of man you should grow up and look for.

They're watching mom and dad the whole time to figure out what they're going to be attracted to, what they're going to be averted to. And that in and of itself, because kids are sponges, is something that'll have a bigger imprint and impact on them on lifelong than anything else you do. It's the relationship, right? It's the relationship that they witness, that they draw in and draw from as they become older and drop into their own relationships. Absolutely. And relationship is the place where we get to heal our relational trauma. And so, you know, you mentioned Mark, I have been through my own curriculum. It's so funny,

relationship has always been the thing that I've seen life through. It's my Dharma. And yet, you know, I've had a lot of, you could say failed relationships, but actually, again, when I look back, they were a curriculum because I had to work through my own relational trauma with my own dad. And that, like, that's a whole interesting story. And I can see how I needed to repeat that dynamic for quite some time. And it looked different. It looked a little different every time. So I got, you know, so I just enough so that I thought, oh, okay, I'm better now. But I realized like, you know, the last one was, I feel not that I've completely healed that. I think it's a continual, you know, as a, as a codependent sort of in, in healing or

in recovery, it's something I always have to pay attention to. But it's been my own curriculum and I'm so grateful for every single one of those relationships. And, you know, you talked about Mark and I, and I do feel that harmony with him and there is such a matched resonance and you know we're just a year in but like all the tools and all the things that that I've gained it's like there's such a matched resonance around that and such a a matched capacity to be with the difficult things and to work through them in a really conscious way and I'm getting to have this just really corrective experience. It's almost like the younger self knew that this is what I was, was in the stars for me or like where I was headed.

But I had to go through all of these learnings with each relationship and each one I'm so deeply grateful for. And, you know, even now I know, like, there's no guarantee for the future. I hope that I can have longevity like you and Tasha. And yes, like the impact can really happen right here with this one person. And even before that, there's something about really being seen and being able to accept all the parts of myself before I can even be in that relationship in a healthy way. And that's like, I feel like that's really the, like the work is if, if somebody out there is like in a very, in a relationship that has a lot of tension, maybe there's a lot of arguing, a lot of triggering happening, chances are that there's some inner healing that needs to take

place, you know, and that anytime you're finding yourself in those conversations over and over again, that, you know, it's really a good bet that you need to not engage in those and instead, like, find a way to regulate yourself before you have those conversations. So there's more I could say about that, but I want to stop there and see if there's anything that is inspired in you to share. Yeah. Well, I just want to say, you know, my, we just celebrated 12 years of being together and living together and eight wedding anniversary, but it's, we've been, we've been married for 12 years. Like you move into somebody it's, it's game on. And the first year was like, whew, like we had, I really felt like I had called in, I dispensed it to use as a verb, I dispensed my wife and, you know, I just, I called it in and I knew I wasn't going

to find Miss Perfect because I wasn't Mr. Perfect, but I was going to find somebody that I could grow with. We'd grow together and we'd have a lot of work. But that first year it was like, wow, she's pointing out all the things that I can't see. She could see them so clearly. I thank God for the plant medicines because it actually allowed me to experience being her and seeing from her eyes what I was doing to myself with alcohol and cocaine and all the stupid shit I was into since college, really, and still after fights. And beyond that as well, like so many, so many other things, but my very first vision I had on ayahuasca, I became her and I relived every argument we had

ever had in the history of our relationship at that point. And it's like, we're like two years into it. And, um, but I, and I I've looked down, I had breasts, I had the long hair, you know, the curly hair, and I'm looking up at me yelling. I'm a foot taller than her. I'm looking at me yelling. And the words that were coming out of my mouth were the words that Kyle would understand. And so simultaneously, I'd feel this imprint of like, oh, it was like getting to relive all the old experiences, but see it from her lens. And the main takeaway was everything she was saying was in love. She wasn't nagging. She wasn in love. She wasn't nagging. She wasn't pissed.

She wasn't any of those things. She was trying to communicate her love and to say like, fucking wake up, take care of yourself. Stop doing this. Right. And, um, and you know, I fucking flood gates. I couldn't, I couldn't stop crying for like two weeks. And when I got home, she hadn't gone to that one.

She was like, I don't want to shit or vomit in the woods. Uh, you go and tell me if it's worth it. And I came back and, and you gone to that one. She was like, I don't want to shit or vomit in the woods. You go and tell me if it's worth it. And I came back and, you know, it was worth it. So she's been right there with me for most of them since then. But there's experiences like that that really offer, you know, like you walk a mile in this person's shoes, that kind of thing. It's kind of hard to accomplish that. But like on a soul level, you know, this medicine allowed it. And since then, you know,

it's not like we have had no arguments since then. There's 10, 10 more years have been added to that and kids and parenting and all the other things. But with that, I, at least there's like a little, a little knock on the door quietly behind me. If I'm like in my thing or I'm triggered or I'm not like at my center, that's just like, remember it's with love. And I'm like, okay, all right. Okay. Hey, I need to go for a walk real quick. I'll come back. We can continue in 10 minutes, something like that. You know, or I just take a little pause, reset myself and come back and everything has changed so dramatically since then. But, but yeah, still

work every step of its work. So yeah, you know, first year, lots of work, lots of work for people, even if you are a relationship coach, even if you have figured shit out, even if you know, you're an empty nester, any of these things, like it's all, it's always going to be work, especially in the early on just to, to find the common ground and the communication style. So, but you're in no better position now that then, you know, this is the best, this is the best you, you could bring to a relationship. So that's really cool, too. Totally. I love that story.

That is such a gorgeous story that you got to experience yourself through her body and her, you know, her experience. What a gift. Yeah, there's a lot of little pieces that came up around that. So what I heard was like, now that when you get triggered or upset, all you have to do is kind of drop into that love space and you go for a walk. Is that like your go to? Yeah, if I need space, walking is the very best because I can't sit with it, right? Like walking allows me to breathe through it, allows me to move through my body. It's something active that's not overexerting. It's not like I need to go lift weights or go for a run and hide from the thing, but I can walk, I can contemplate and just release and come back to my center.

Yeah, perfect. I love that you're saying that. And there's lots of different ways to do that. You know, for me, it's also walking. For some people, it's really doing conscious breath work, you know, like basically just anything that's going to like calm your nervous system because in that moment you're in a sympathetic nervous system state and you want to bring your parasympathetic nervous system back on board and come back to your center. And then like, I do feel called if it's cool with you to share like the process of repair, would that be good?

Yes, please. Hell yes. I really, really want people to have some tools. So anytime that you're in a thing with your partner and you're feeling that activation, you're feeling triggered, and that may be you notice your heartbeat foster, you notice your palms getting sweaty, you notice you can't hear your partner anymore. Like you're just not hearing your partner. It is always, always, always, always a good, a good thing to say, like, I need, I need a timeout. Like, let's take a timeout. And you don't just take a timeout endlessly until you're ready. It's an agreed upon time.

It's like, can you give me 20 minutes, or maybe it's an hour, for me to just regulate? And then I want to come back to this conversation. And then in that 20 minutes, if you're still not calm, you have the communication, I just need another 10 minutes. But it's important for all those like anxious, attached people out there to not just leave it. Like, I need to go regulate. And then two days later, you come back for the conversation. Now that that's blown over that's definitely not good anyway but when you come back the good like a good sort of feedback wheel and this is how I felt about it. And then there might be a followed up request. walked in the kitchen and you shut the cupboard when you got your coffee mug loudly, I made

up a story that you were pissed off at me for what I said earlier. And I'm mad because you're just not getting me and you're not hearing what I'm trying to say. And that has me feel really hopeless. It has me feel hopeless about our relationship and it has me feel like misunderstood and not heard. And I have a request. It would really, really help me if we could sit down and make some time for you to really like listen consciously to what I'm trying to share with you. Can you make that happen? And then partner B, the other partner, the rule of thumb is you say yes to that unless

it's at too much of a cost to you, like too much of a compromise, right? So we can talk about that. But that's the general, that's the gist of it. You come back and you say, when X happened, this is the story I made up about it. This is how I felt about it. And this is what I might need right now. So I'm going to pause there. And I'm imagining you and Tasha do something similar to that already. Yeah. I mean, I think you were there for my talk, and I hadn't talked about it in a few years.

But when we were in an open relationship, in an open marriage, how much pressure that fucking put on the system. And so I read Nonviolent Communication. I read more than two, an ethical guide to polyamory. I was reading pretty much anything, get my hands on that would help me understand better. We read mastery of love together out loud and like went over at the end of each chapter,

you know, where are we at with this? Do we agree with Don Miguel Ruiz? Are we doing it yet? How can we improve? We did a lot of things that really built our relationship, but dang it, where were we just at with the- Well, you were talking about how you do repair.

Yeah, exactly. And so that to me, that set that he talks about non-malicious communication, this is what happened in my mind, or as I see it, the story I made up, I like that better. And then getting to the need and then making the request. One of the things I love when he talks about the request is it's only a request. If you will allow other ways for the need to be met, if it has to be done the way that you want it, it's not a request is demand. I'm constantly working with that in my head. Like, don't make it a demand, make it a request, you know, like allow different ways for that need to be met.

And I feel it's such an important piece when I work with clients, things like that. Most people don't get to the need. They haven't looked inward enough, right? And I was this way too, where I was just hung up on what happened and this is how you made me feel, not what is the core need that's not being met here, right? Because that's the remedy to it all. That's how it goes in a full circle and you actually can have growth from it and healing from it. And so yeah, that's been a big part for me is like really sitting like, holy shit, I'm off center. I don't feel good. I'm angry. I feel like I'm being attacked, right? Like my parents would talk to me. Now I feel like I'm being attacked just like a little boy in front of his parents. And what do I actually need from this? You know, and then, you know, sometimes the need is something I can do too. You know, like

I'm uncertain about the world. I need to feel secure in myself before I can relay the mountain energy and be secure with you. You know, and. It could be right there for me to meet that request too. But understanding that is such a big piece. I love that you mentioned that because it's one that's missed often. It's one that I missed all the time. And I think it's been one of the things that's helped me the most is understanding the request for the need to be met. Yes.

And also the other piece that I left out is getting consent. Like maybe there's something that you already have and you've kind of been in your own process working out why you, why you're upset about something or why you were hurt about something. That's always good to ask consent. I have something on my heart is now an okay time to share, or is there, you know, is there another time? So now you have, now you have consent and you've entered a container together. And as the partner that's listening and receiving this, really dropping into your deep listening, not listening to respond, not listening to like, when is it going to be my turn or making it about you that you're really

listening with an open curiosity and with a desire to understand so that's like that takes practice because if you start to pay attention to your listening you'll realize that a lot of times you're not. I mean, that's just, that is just like the hard fact about it. Like we all need to understand that, you know, that we're most of the time we're not really listening. And so it's, it's an ongoing evolution, our ability to listen. So coming back to your breath, coming back to presence, and really receiving the feedback. And then if a request is made, and maybe there's an apology too that needs to be made. And it's not just a, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. It's a, I hear, like you actually, you know, paraphrase back what you heard. So I heard, I heard you say that when, when I,

you know, shut the cupboard in the kitchen, you thought I was mad at you and that brought up all this stuff. And yeah, I know like, then you, you actually take accountability. I know that sometimes I do hold onto things and I have like been kind of aggressive in my when I get angry and I know that I can be that way sometime and and I'm really sorry I'm sorry for the impact that had on you because the thing is is that you said it before the system we're in a system so really like you apologizing you're taking accountability and you actually meeting the requests, if it's not too much of a compromise to you, like it's not going to hurt you, it's good for the system and that's good for you.

You know, so we have to get out of this like tit for tat mentality, like, because we're part of a system, an ecosystem, and we have to remember that. Yeah, I love that. It's making me think of Mark Gaffney, where he rolls from rolemate to soulmate to wholemate, right? And in rolemate, it is tit for tat. It's like, you want to mention, oh, by the way, while you were gone, you know, I took the liberty of doing the dishes just in case you didn't notice or, you know, like, hey, I vacuumed the whole house upstairs, all the rooms, you know, so don't worry about that. I took care of it. You know, you want the acknowledgement, like you're writing on a chalkboard, you're throwing in your,

you know, you're throwing your marks on the chalkboard of what everyone's contributed in the rolemate thing, right? But you transcend and include these, right. It's not like you move into soulmate and all of a sudden you, you lose track of who takes care of who or who, you know, provides in different ways, like all that remains, but you move beyond it, you know, and as you know, his trajectory and moving beyond soulmate where we're to design for each other into homemade is that now we share, we share a shared horizon. We're able to look into the future together, arm in arm, and that can go for any relationship. Particularly that's something I've been working on a lot with Aubrey and Art Godsey and Caitlin.

What is the shared horizon that we see and what's the best way to approach that? You know, so we're, we're, we're all working to be whole mates together. You know, since, since Mark taught us that. Can I, can I insert something else? I'm glad you brought up Mark Gaffney because when you were talking about Tasha in the first year and how she was pointing out all these things you were doing and she probably, I imagine, she saw your higher version of yourself. And another thing Mark Gaffney says is that, I heard this in The Holy and the Erotic, I love it so much. It's become a guiding principle for me, is it is my job in this relationship to be the midwife of your higher self. Ooh, that's juicy. Isn't it? That's so good, yeah.

Isn't it? So what does that actually really mean? And it means, you know, and I've been like jostling around with this a little bit because I am so aware of dynamics and the unseen and the unspoken. Like my gift is to sit and talk with somebody and pull out the thing that they're

not seeing and give it back to them in a loving way that like, like has them really see what's happening. It becomes a little challenging sometimes in relationship because I'm seeing seeing the thing, but then it becomes like, how much is it my job to like tell you your thing versus me just claiming my boundary and the way that that thing is actually impacting me? Because you're like, you know, my analysis and my like, my seeing of what I think your unhealthy pattern is with your family and your child and the way you're showing up in all these places. Like, yeah, I can see it, but it's not like I don't really, really know. But also like that's your side of the street where it becomes my side of the street is how those behaviors are impacting me and i get to say you know what when x happens this is the impact on me and it's not working for me like i have a request of x that's like that's where i'm coming to now kyle like, that's my role is to stay on my side of the street, but to be clear

about what's happening for me and own my experience in it. And then my partner gets to do what they want with that information. And then I get to watch and see. And for now, like up until now, you know, with mock in particular, every time I do that, I'm like really happily, like pleasantly and positively not surprised, but just happy to see that there's this invitation that's given. And each invitation is is alchemized really, really quickly. And it's that thing that you said with Tasha that you wanted somebody that you could grow with, you know, and like that, that's really the key, I think, is to continue to have this, you talked about a shared horizon, like what is the purpose of our relationship? What are we, what's the purpose for us and what's the impact we want to have on others? Like what is that shared horizon shared horizon and it's it's that we're working like our relationship is helping us to be the better versions of ourselves so that like in that harmony and in that higher kind of higher vibration

and conscious relationship then we're positively impacting like side by side, sometimes together, sometimes in a project together, but like side by side, impacting those around us and inviting them into their highest selves. Bam. Fuck yeah. I got nothing to add to that. And, you know, I know for some people like hearing this, like I shared something like this with somebody recently and they're like,

well, that sounds like a great relationship. And what I got from that was that they were not experiencing that. Right. So there's, there's a lot of people that it's been rough these last few years. It's, it's been really rough. Like, you know, we all know the factors, right? The polarization, the separation, we were already suffering with loneliness and disconnection before the pandemic. And now everything, you know, that's gone virtual. And I do feel like I feel a lot of sense of hope, because there's so

many beautiful, like on the ground communities coming together, like, so many. So I feel a lot of hope. And there's a lot of people kind of stuck in, in like patterns of, of disconnection and upset. And I know it can feel really insurmountable, especially in those couples that are, are really caught in that. Um, and I feel a lot of empathy for that. And I would say to those people, whatever you can do to first actually be able to sit with yourself and sit with those parts of yourself that are, that there's shame around, that there's like, the manifestation of the partner that you've brought in to show you. So the good news is that there's infinite amount of healers and modalities and things like that. But I just love helping people on that journey of coming back to themselves and actually learning to find love and be in the energy of love for themselves and start to heal those parts that have felt so unlovable. And ultimately that changes. I mean, that can change the relationship you're in. Definitely. Like if

one person shifts their way of showing up and their energy, it often can impact the other and miraculously things start to really change. Or it might show you that this is no longer the relationship for me. Like I've outgrown this relationship. And then, you know, you will, you will find your way, if that's what you want, to, to the next level that you're ready to bring in. But really, that's like at the core, that's at the core of it is like learning, learning to find enough love for yourself. It doesn't have to be like fully in love with yourself, but enough love for yourself to start to be able to actually see and be with another and be able to hold differences,

be able to listen more deeply, be able to get curious and seek to understand, being able to like, you know, have enough wholeness in each of you and then create like a, what's that one plus one equals three, right? Experience. So yeah, I love helping people through that journey. Well, talk a little bit about, I mean, we've spoken a bit about circling. I'll link to, is it circlinginstitute.com? I'm no longer actually involved with the Circling Institute. Okay.

Well, tell me who you're involved with now and where people can get a hold of your wonderful high priestess energy. Oh, thank you. As much as I love them. And if anybody wants to learn how to actually train in that, they should go to the Circling Institute. That's wonderful, wonderful place. So how they can get involved with me. So what I'm really working on now is obviously I work with individuals and couples, and I take them through a period of time when we really dive deep into some of these things. And I also love to work in organizations, and most especially conscious organizations that are really trying to make a positive impact on the world. And I think that, you know, organizations like Fit for Service, where the actual relationships within the organization, within the teams, within the leadership teams,

and how healthy those relationships are, are a direct reflection of the impact that they can have in a sustainable way. So I love to work with those kinds of teams. There's nothing more exciting for me. It's weird. It's like a weird fascination. I love to go in a room of people where there's some dissonance. It's so funny because I love harmony and peace more than anything. But really like that feeling of walking into a room where things have been unsaid, there's tensions, there's ego, there's defensiveness. And to come in and like little by little start to uncover the things

and create a space where people can share, like a safe enough space where people can start to share and people can start to get curious and people can, you know, understand and like, and I sort of all, you know, feel a bit like a conductor in those moments. And it takes a lot of trust in the intelligence that wants to come through. But there has not been one single time where that hasn't worked. And that's not me. That's literally just what happens when people are in their hearts and they're like coming from their experience and now we've created a listening space. It's just like, it's almost like a natural order of things from chaos to order.

It's, it's neat. It feels like nature to me, Kyle. And to be in those spaces where that happens is, is like like oh my god it's like it's the best like that's where I'm like zing um and actually just to be honest like when I left the farm off to being there a few days like I know I was like hired for like this period of time and that period of time but really from the minute I landed until the minute I left I completely was in that space with you all like a conversation here like a conversation there like off the record and I was just it was like having the permission to be immersed in that space and to be really doing what I love to do and watching it all and feeling like a curator or a guide and all of that.

I just love that shit. So people can just find me on my website and find out more about all of that. And there's fun projects in the pipeline that I'm excited about. And yeah, and definitely like if anyone is interested in learning more about circling because you keep, you know, it's a part of what you've talked about and all of that, that I would encourage them to find out more about it. And the Circling Institute would be a wonderful place to go to find out about

it. Cool. Well, it's been, it's been so great having you on. I can't wait. I hope we get to see each other. I think we're going to see each other in Sedona. I'm not sure. They've been all over the place, but, but we will see each other. We will see each other soon for sure. I know we will. I can't thank you enough for all of the medicine that you've delivered, whether it's with you on stage and me in the crowd or at the farm. All of it has panned out in ways that are exponentially higher than anything I could have expected from it. So I have such a deep gratitude for you. I love you, buddy. I'll have you back on the podcast anytime. I love you, buddy. And I'll have you back on the podcast anytime. I love you so much. Thank you so much. And send my love to that beautiful family of yours. Absolutely.

Okay. Thank you.