Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #324 Ultimate Nutrition System Bible w/ Wade and Matt of Bioptimizers

Episode Date: October 11, 2023

Wade T Lightheart returns after much too long and brings Bioptimizers’ co-founder Matt Gallant with! Many of you know their products and how incredible as well as affordable they are. This is because these guys are the real deal. They do much of the science behind these products in-house.  They have recently put together one of the most comprehensive guides to any diet you’ve heard of, many on this podcast. The book, Ultimate Nutrition System, walks you through the ins and outs of each diet, keto, carnivore, vegan, IM fasting all of em. Go get the book, find what fits for you and let us know how it went. We dive into the book as well as some hidden gems in their, Bioptimizers, lineup. So listen up and take notes yall!   ORGANIFI GIVEAWAY Keep those reviews coming in! Please drop a dope review and include your IG/Twitter handle and we’ll get together for some Organifi even faster moving forward.   Connect with Bioptimizers: Website: Ultimatenutritionsystem.com/kingsbu  Instagram: @bioptimizers - @wadelightheart -  @mattgallant    Sponsors: Hostage Tape Nasal breathing is some of the lowest hanging fruit for your health. Head to hostagetape.com/KKP for your third month worth of tape free!   Neurohacker Collective Run these guys’ Qualia Senolytic, a two day per month cleans to flush out all your “zombie” cells. Head to neurohacker.com/kkp for 50% OFF and use “KKP” at checkout for an additional 15% off your first order!  PaleoValley Some of the best and highest quality goodies I personally get into are available at paleovalley.com, punch in code “KYLE” at checkout and get 15% off everything! Bioptimizers To get the ’Sleep Breakthrough‘ deal exclusively for fans of the podcast, click the link below and use code word “KINGSBU10” for an additional 10% off. sleepbreakthrough.com/kingsbu   To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

All right, y'all. We're back today with a whopper of a podcast. Wade T. Lightheart returns to the podcast for his second time alongside co-founder Matt Gallant. These are the co-founders of Bioptimizers. And one of the reasons I love these dudes, I got to meet Wade at Paul Cech's 60th birthday a couple years ago, is due to the fact that they live this shit. They are not just dabbling in a company that makes good products. And trust me when I say these guys make the very best products. Research back, they are doing well

enough that they can conduct their own research and science, which is really cool. And that's what helps them fine tune to create the very best products. But outside of that, these guys have been the walking living embodiment of health for some time. And they continue to do crazy shit. Wade is now 51, I believe. And at 50, he reentered the natural bodybuilding, natural IFBB. Am I saying that right? He entered a natural bodybuilding, a natural IB, IFBB. Am I saying that right? He entered a natural bodybuilding contest and won the damn thing. Then, uh, I think he did an Ironman and then he competed or did a brand, his first marathon, like within the next six months, crazy shit. Um, and, and I mean, I would be impressed if I could do that for myself right now at 41, he's got 10 years on me and just completed all

this shit in a one-year span. It is absolutely incredible and mind-blowing to see what these guys are up to and how they can push themselves. In addition to that, Wade is a plant-based athlete, which for me is hard to believe. But when you understand, you hang out with Wade, you can see there is a genuine wealth of knowledge. The reason I had these guys on the podcast was to talk about their new book, The Ultimate Nutrition Bible, easily create the perfect diet that fits your lifestyle goals and genetics. This is brilliant. What they've done here is they've taken a deep dive into every diet from carnivore to raw vegan. They show when and where it works, what it's used for for and they show the pitfalls behind every single diet why is it unsustainable why does it not last and then they bridge the gap for you and

show you how you get the best of all worlds if you like ketogenic diet but you also want to build muscle cyclical keto has been done in bodybuilding for many many years decades now five days low carb two days high carb and they show you how to dive into every single one of these. They also show you how to minimize, uh, the crap that your body will not digest well and how to assist yourself in digesting some of these things that, uh, need a little help. So, uh, just a phenomenal, phenomenal book. It really is, is, I mean, it is a, it's biblical in the sense that it's like a fucking textbook. Looking through, you know, just looking through it, I think it's hands down the most

comprehensive thing I've ever seen on diet. They dive into blood glucose, they dive into glycemic index and all the stuff that we've seen before. But beyond that, they dive into nutrigenomics. How do your genetics affect your nutrition? And all sorts of amazing things, supplements, you name it, everything goes into this. And it's a one-stop shop for really getting to the point where you're going to figure out exactly what's right for you. And truly, what's beautiful about this and what's beautiful about the way they present this information is that you're running an n equals one experiment you're the cat you're the test you're the guinea pig right and you're going to find out if you if you anybody that i know that knows health and

wellness and walks the fucking walk and looks the way that they should look if they're optimized and they're the best version of themselves and you you'll know it when you see somebody who's dialed in. You're like, that guy's got it. That girl's got it. Something about that person radiates energy. There's a magnetism to them. And they're clearly proof of health. Everything about them is healthy.

They're not just lean, but they're lacking in other departments. They have it all figured out, for lack of a better term. They actually don't have it all figured out, for lack of a better term. They actually don't have it all figured out. What they have is an ongoing process of figuring out what works and listening to themselves, listening to their body and seeing what their body needs. And in that active listening, they continue to fine-tune and redefine what they need at any given point based on goals. This is what the Ultimate Nutrition Bible is all about. Matt and Wade couldn't come from further backgrounds from a diet standpoint. Matt does primarily well animal-based and high-fat. He's been working with ketogenic diets on and off for

some time. As you know, many of you know, when I retired from the UFC in 2014, I spent about two years, pretty strict keto, played around with carnivore diets. I myself, thanks to Paul Cech's tutelage, understand that I'm a polar type and I do very well eating high animal products and eating very little veggies. That doesn't mean I cross them out. I love getting raw dairy. I love getting fruit and I love getting berries. And I still love yams. I still love other things on occasion. Certainly as we approach the holidays, I'm going to be eating a gang of yams and that's okay because I'm at my goal weight. I feel good and I know how to curb the carb impact when I'm lifting weights and doing different things. So all of this is available in here. I had a great time podcasting with these guys. I really love what they've done. It's funny because I'll think

of something, maybe I'm gathering it from the ether, like right as they began writing this, I'm like, you know what? Somebody needs to put together a book that really dives deep into all the different variety of diets and then kind of connects the dots on who they're right for. Because the truth is you look at Darren Olean, who's a buddy of mine, the superfood hunter, jacked, did 10 pull-ups with a hundred pound weight vest on, on his 40th birthday. He looks like a total Adonis, beautiful blonde hair, Southern California guy, surfer, hangs with Laird Hamilton and the boys. There's no one on the planet that's going to tell me that diet doesn't work for him. It fucking completely does. Now, where people get mistaken is they say, Darren looks this way. He's a vegan. Why can't I look that way from that diet?

They run it for two years and their testosterone tanks and a whole host of other issues. And then you're like, well, I don't know. I don't get it. And the truth is we're all completely different from one another. Even if I had four siblings and I was the oldest of five from the same parents, every one of us would process carbohydrates differently. Every one of us would process saturated fats differently. It's just, it's just the It's just the nature of the beast. And the only way we get to that, there's many ways we can get to that through genetic testing and different things like that.

I dive into some of the ways that I found that out for myself. But again, it's this N equals one approach. How do I figure this stuff out? How do I try this out? CGMs, working with companies like NutriSense or Levels, all these things can give us a ton of data on how we respond at this stage because it does change. I filled out in How to Eat, Move, and Be Healthy, which is, in my opinion, the Bible on health and wellness from Paul Cech, as many of you know.

My wife and I filled out those questionnaires 12 different times, and they changed over time. They changed as our body changed. They changed as we changed our diet. And what we needed changed because of that. So, uh, no, it's active, it's flexible. And what you need is, is it is going to change based on what you're doing. And Wade's perfect living proof of that. He did not eat the same way for the marathon as he did for the bodybuilding competition. It's just a different game and all this is in there so love these guys i had a blast

having them on um it was a real treat to sit in front of people that know more than me about this shit and that's not me being egoic i mean i honestly it's the honest truth when i have somebody on that nose diet and shit like that it's like cool let's talk about something else when i have these guys on i'm like tell me about this you know like i can clearly tell who the experts are in the room and um and it's and it's a beautiful thing to be in the presence of these guys on, I'm like, tell me about this. I can clearly tell who the experts are in the room. And it's a beautiful thing to be in the presence of these guys. So thank you, Matt. Thank you, Wade. We'll do it again at some point. There are many ways you can support this podcast. First and foremost, share it with somebody. And I think there's many podcasts that I have where it's ranging from deep state talk or fucking what's happening to our food systems. They're not for

everybody. It's really not on a lot of people want to poke their head into the darkness. That's fine. This is one of those podcasts that literally is for everyone because I have not met a lot of people on the streets that have their shit a hundred percent dialed in. It's one of the reasons I make money as a coach because people don't have it dialed in. And I think this book is going to help a lot of people to get dialed in. So share it far and wide with your friends. Everyone who, if they listen to podcasts, will love this one. There's something in it for everybody. Check out their book. We'll link to it in the show notes. It is a must-own and you don't have to read the entire textbook. As they say, you can kind of pick and choose

where you want to go on your path and circle back to other things later. Totally fine. Support our sponsors. These guys make this show fiscally possible. And by purchasing their products, which are phenomenal, you help this show stay viable. Also leave us a five-star rating with one or two ways the show has helped you out in life.

And we will select if you leave your Twitter, Instagram, or I guess X Instagram or Facebook handle, my team will get out to you the very best review at the end of each month. They'll get out to you guys. My favorite product from Organifi, they're doing that all year long. So thank you to Organifi. Thank you to my sponsors of the show. These guys are incredible. Today we're brought to you by Hostage Tape. This is an amazing product. Mouth breathing is often linked to allergies, colds, and chronic nasal congestion. Breathing through your nose filters out dust, allergens, germs, and environmental debris. Your nose is the ultimate air cleaner. It is designed to remove particles and allergens

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this month's gift with purchase. Without further ado, my brothers from Bioptimizers, authors of the ultimate nutrition Bible, Matt and Wade, thank you for coming here. All right, we're clapped in. Tell me about this voice coach because this is cool shit. It's something I've... Tosh sent me... My wife sent me an Instagram thing of this guy who was on like Gaia TV and he had a British accent, which was cool, but one of the most like wide ranging, you know, he spoke from deep within himself and he talked about how we've been, you know, really taught to speak in this up, up, up, you know, like, and just lose the full range.

And that, that's a, an inherent piece of our expression when you understand through plant medicines or any of the cymatics, any of these other sound studies, how vibration impacts us. You can understand just what an impact it is to have the full range of one's voice as an energetic signature and a way to communicate beyond the words themselves. So I'm fascinated with this. And we were just starting. I was like, well, we got to get this on the podcast. Why don't you guys tell me about this? Yeah. Well, there's a guy by the name of Roger Love and he's a famous vocal coach. He was kind of a prodigy as a kid. And then he ended up providing insight for speakers. He saved Tony Robbins' voice and he became kind of the de facto guy for people to find the full range of their voice.

And he actually can associate psychological states, relationship issues, just by listening to your voice. And it's literally, you walk in, you talk to him for two minutes, and he completely decodes your life based on your voice and then shows you exactly how to correct it. He's like, you haven't been late in two weeks. You must have a three-year-old that's keeping you and your wife up at night.

No! I wouldn't be surprised if he could actually do that. Yeah, you're right. I mean, frequencies, especially audio frequencies, you can't stop them. They're always impacting us, whether it's music or someone's voice. So if somebody can speak with a more powerful voice, more pleasant tone, people like that. That's cool. I'll have to get his information from you guys after. Matt, it's your first time on the podcast. I've obviously had Wade back in the day. First time we get to have a one face-to-face. I should have just brought my

gear with me to Paul's birthday, his 60th birthday, assuming I'd either be all the coolest fucking people on planet earth there, which there was, right? Yeah, that was awesome. That was awesome. So it was great to have met you and also got to take you guys on a nice little tour. We spoke a little bit, you know, people listening to the show know there's generally a background on who I'm speaking with. And I'd love to know a little bit more about you, Matt, how you came in and then a recap, because it's been a couple years, I think, since we podcast originally Wade. So Matt lead us off and then Wade jump in. Yeah, man. First of all, we're doing a bunch of podcasts this week. This is the one I'm the most excited about because I'm really excited to meet you. You live up to the hype.

So yeah, I've been a personal trainer since I was 19. I have my degree in kinesiology, science of physical activity. Built a couple of personal training companies, met Wade early on in that journey. We became friends. And then in 2004, we launched our first product, which was called Freaky Big Naturally. Wade was a successful natural bodybuilder on a plant-based diet. This is almost 20 years ago. So no one was doing that. And I was already building companies online. I told Wade, I think this is really marketable. So let's try it. And it was quite successful. In 2005, we built our first supplement, which was Masszymes, which is the best protein digesting enzyme on the market. I know because we've tested it in our lab. I see you're drinking some protein. I mean, people talk about protein

all the time, but really what you want is amino acids. So we've done the experiments, and mass enzymes will break protein down into a pool of amino acids in about 30 minutes. There's no other enzyme we've tested that's even close. And then from there, we rebranded to Bioptimizers in 2014. And it's just been a rocket ride. We've hit 8,500 in the last two years in a row.

And we're super excited because for the last three years, we've been working on a book called The Ultimate Nutrition Bible. The goal was to create the most comprehensive, unbiased book on nutrition ever. And I think we've accomplished that. That's awesome. That's something I really appreciate about you guys is that Wade has the plant-based diet and obviously looking at it, you're fucking stacked still to this day. I don't know how old you are. How old are you? 51. 51. And you're stacked, right? It's like when you, when you see Paul check, you know, he's now 62 and he's deadlifting more than I am. You're like, he's done something right. And he's walking the walk, you know, the world needs more

people who actually walk the walk. Cause we've got plenty of sick people telling us what to do and we shouldn't be listening to them, but you have more of the keto, you've done carnivore, some different meat-based diets. And that's kind of where I've fallen. If I look to, you know, William, Dr. William Walcott, Weston A. Price, a lot of the things that Paul teaches and how to eat, move and be healthy. I do better from a polar standpoint with higher fat, higher meat, higher protein than I do with mostly plant-based, but it's all individual. Anybody who's touting just eat meat or just eat plants probably hasn't figured out that everyone's different and it works. We're all individuals that have different preferences and different needs, especially based where we're at in life. And no one is more true

than the wonderful woman who has a cycle every 28 days roughly and has to go through motherhood and menopause and all these different things. Their body changes rapidly depending on which state they're in. And their diet will change with that. I wanted to dive into that with you. I assumed you guys would do that in an all-encompassing book, but that's really cool. And I want to give you guys a tip of the hat for it. Thanks. Yeah, I came home one day and my uncle told me I was fat.

I was pissed off and then found the Atkins diet. So I was like, I think 15 years old. So I did my first ketogenic diet when I was like 15, lost 43 pounds in six months. And from there, I discovered the anabolic diet by Mauro Di Pasquale, which was a cyclical carb strategy. So you do keto for five days, eat carbs for two.

And I went from 147 to 235 in three years. Again, no drugs. So yeah, I mean, ketogenic diets always resonated with me. I find it easier to do what I need to do. But it is a lot of nuances, including nutrigenomics. So for an example, I don't have good genetics for saturated fats. My lipid profile hasn't been great. And then I discovered that relatively recently. So now I'm adjusting my ketogenic diet, decreasing saturated fats a little bit, increasing monounsaturated fats like from olive oil or macadamia nuts. So

no matter what diet you're on, there's a lot of things people can do to make it even better. Yeah. Nutrigenomics is the nutrition based on genetics. Is that correct? Yeah. It's the science. I haven't heard it called that before, but yeah, that's something I figured out. I did a 23andMe, outsourced the raw data to foundmyfitness.com, Rhonda Patrick's site, which really breaks it down. Same thing also said for my wife and I and Aubrey Marcus, we can't take ALA from plants, flaxseed, chia seed, and turn that into DHA and EPA, which we need, you know, critical, critical omega-3s for the brain. Can't take vitamin A from sweet potatoes, carrots, and most as I love them and convert that in a retinol. If

you, you know, the end product that I'd find in egg yolks, beef liver, things like that. And that's just our own little on off switches, you know, like what's possible there, but, uh, same thing, you know, that I don't do great with, um, a lot of saturated fats. I have found that plant-based saturated fats like coconut oil and MCCs don't seem to impact as much as, you know, the animal-based saturated fats for me personally. But yeah, that's interesting that we share that in common. And Wade and I argued for a long time. I mean, we're both recovered nutritional zealots. Wade was a plant-based zealot. I was a ketogenic zealot. I thought it was the best diet ever. Everybody should be on it. Then I remember I had a couple of clients, putting one guy, I remember he turned gray. I'm not exaggerating, like his skin tone changed.

And I had some other clients. He looked like a white walker. He looked like it. I think so. And I had some other clients that just had digestive issues with fats. And, you know, it took us a long time and a lot of arguments to get to where we are now. Yeah. And, you know, I grew up in the bodybuilding world originally.

And that was like high protein, high carbohydrate, low fat. And then, you know, I had a kind of a spiritual Renaissance and wanted to experiment with a plant-based diet, tried a two week test, which extended to two months. And then I just stopped. So like, it was not like some, you know, passion or, you know, idea that I had. It just was an experiment that worked for me. And then I've continually optimized. I went completely raw food for two years and felt awesome. However, the sociological challenges with that, and basically you're just the weird guy at every party. It's like a breatharian or somebody that just, you know, like you sun gazer, you know, like you can live, but, but that's the, it might be a problem, you know, for socially.

Yeah. So, so I broke away from that just because, that just because I'm a very social guy and I wanted to be... Food is really connected with the social and emotional needs. And I felt that the exclusiveness of that diet, although I'd kind of optimized for it, was too restrictive and I wanted to expand my options. And I think if you look at the kind of arc of dietary expertise relative to yourself, you kind of go through, I don't know what I'm doing phase. I've got a problem or a goal or objective phase. And then it's kind of like, okay, you find an expert, a tribe, a cult, a zealot, you follow that to, you know, and get some benefits. And then you come up with these conflicts within

that dietary philosophy that's not working for you. And that's where so many people get stuck because our amygdala, our tribal mentaries, like, well, if I'm not part of the paleo tribe, who am I? Or if I'm not part of the keto tribe, who am I? And what we're trying to do is to recognize that that bias may be positive for a period of time, but ultimately it will hold you from having your best self. And so we're essentially teaching the freedom diet or the dogma-free diet. So it's a dogma diet.

And I think almost everybody that gets to a sophisticated level of understanding their own physiology, whether that's through intuitive or awareness or trial and error or through technology, eventually comes to that place. And so most of the dietary experts who have kind of their cult-like following, outside of the conference or outside of the speaking engagements where you're backstage in the green room talking, you'll find that there's many nuances that they don't share with the public or because people get confused or maybe, you know, what they do on when they're not fully engaged in their diet. Like they, like some people will say, well, you know, I have ice cream sometimes, or I, you know, Paul check loves popcorn and chocolate. Yeah. Fucks his body up, but he loves it. Yeah. And, and I'm the same way that like, you give me a bag of chips, man. And I, you know, these nuances to help people transcend that patterns of dietary association or cult-like dynamics that can really trip you up in the long-term.

Yeah. I think there's too much fear-mongering happening with food. Oats is bad. Kale is bad. Just a laundry list. If somebody's on Instagram and the algorithm figures out they like nutrition and they watch videos for a week, they're going to be scared of half the food in a grocery store. So even with foods that are quote unquote bad for you, there's always strategies to mitigate that. For an example, we have a product called Gluten Guardian. I mean, it's amazing at breaking down gluten. I wouldn't recommend a celiac goes and eats gluten. I have a gluten intolerance and I'll say that that is the thing like bear knows on his birthday we're going to eat pizza yeah right and he's like dad get the gluten guardian i swear to god this is not a fucking ad like i swear to god every day

for the last two years on his birthday he knows we're ordering we get a deep dish mailed out from chicago from lumal nadis and i'll cook it in the oven he's like dad get the gluten guardian i'm like you remember every time we're going to do this, you know, like this is the thing that mitigates the problems. We don't, you know, get fucked up from it, but stuffy nose, a little inflammation, little gassy, it's enough to want to mitigate. So with the gluten garden, that shit vanishes. And it's not like that means now we can eat pizza every day. Pizza is not a part of our routine, but hell yeah, man. Birthday parties. absolutely. We're going to do that. That's a kind of a good insight. And I think as an athlete, you will understand this deeply is the rituals that one's practices and, you know, and most ancient cultures, rituals were

defined and clarified, but as we've kind of mosh pitted society, we forget the rituals that will allow us to successfully navigate the world. And I think there's a yearning inside the human psyche to get back to a more ritualistic, the sacred, the conscious activity of patterns of behavior that allows you to succeed and navigate the environment that you need to adapt towards. Yeah. Ritual debauchery is one too. You know, like Charles Eisenstein was a speaker at Arcadia. I was talking to you guys about our festival we had for the first time last year. And we have it again in the beginning of November, fucking 5,000 tickets this year. So highly recommend people come.

We'd love to have you guys there. But Eisenstein, you know, his idea, you know, in the book, the more beautiful world our hearts know as possible is kind of what sprang this forward. Like we want to create a festival that embodies that. And he spoke about this, how festivals had been used year after year at various points was in many ways to break,

to finally relieve ourselves of our roles in society and of the things that we had, the responsibilities and allow us to break out of that. And you can still see it today. And things like Mardi Gras, you know, you got the masks on and the different colors and it's wild and you're dancing and you're assumed you're going to get shit faced. You know, there'd be different festivals where the King would be in a fool of, you know, they dress them up like a lady and everyone would throw fucking whatever fruit at them, that kind of thing. Um, but without those things in place or with, you know, the

commodification of certain things like, hey, Halloween is just dressed as fucking sexy as you can and eat shitty food. For kids, it's eat shitty food and get cavities. And for adults, it's who's the fucking hottest person here. It doesn't quite grasp what the original festival was. And those were done ritually, usually around equinox, solstices, and things of that nature to mark different indicators in the cycles of time and also to celebrate different things, whether it was the rebirth of nature in the spring or the changing and heading into the cold winter. You celebrate the final harvest in the fall. Yeah, I'm a foodie and I went to Europe for three weeks early in the summer I ate

What everything I wanted? And I still lost weight, you know and a lot of that too like let's get to the one of the most fundamental things Calories in calories out the laws of thermodynamics apply to everyone So if you are going to eat more food You can burn it off and not gain any body fat so eat more food, you can burn it off and not gain any body fat. So again, it's another mitigation strategy. If you're going to go eat a pizza, maybe you fast earlier in the day, maybe you fast the next day. Hit a BFR workout right beforehand. So all those carbohydrates go to the muscle and

replenish the liver. There's all kinds of strategies. One of the tips that we recommend in the book is to think about calories from a weekly perspective. We were programmed to think about it from a daily perspective, but really what matters is are you in a calorie deficit, maintenance, or surplus on a weekly basis? And that's really what's going to determine whether you're gaining weight, losing weight, or just maintaining. I got a question for you guys, and it's specific to my old man. Just turned him on to BFR after I had Dr. Mike DeBoer on. Absolutely love it. It's gotten

my knee pain to go away. He's 72 now, my dad. And he just did an excess scan after so long. He'd gained three pounds of lean muscle, lost three pounds of fat. So nothing to write home about, but still an edge in the positive direction. I said, well, tell me about your diet. And he said that he was doing a lot of intermittent fasting, like daily intermittent fasting. And my thought, you know, from traditional bodybuilding would be to, you know, if you want to reset your metabolism, do a fasting mimicking diet or one day a week, do a 24 hour fast. But then on the rest of the days, especially while you're lifting, even if it's BFR or

not, eat enough protein, eat enough carbohydrates to actually stimulate muscle gain. And by building muscle first, that will allow for easier fat loss later. Is that generally a concept that still stands today or is that some old news bullshit? No, that's a hundred percent. So again, when you eat about 30 grams of protein with let's say three grams of leucine, there's an mTOR activation, which is one of the most anabolic things. So when you're doing intermittent fasting, there's just a massive percentage of the day where you're just not anabolic. So if somebody wants to build muscle,

I mean, four meals a day is probably enough. Old school bodybuilding, some guys would do six meals and we're friends with some pro bodybuilders that have to do that because they have to eat so much. Every two hours. Yeah.

I mean, when I was at ASU, eating was a fucking second job. It wasn't fun. And I, you know, and I was eating dog shit. I didn't know much about it, but yeah, I do a dozen Krispy Kreme after two pizzas and a pint of heavy cream to wash down the glazed donuts. You know, like I just couldn't get enough to, to, to gain weight. I could never top. I was playing D line. I couldn't get to 270. 268 is where I maxed out. No matter how many calories I got in. It gets harder and harder because your metabolism is actually getting faster and faster as you're gaining weight. So we're friends with Ben Pekulski. Oh, yeah.

He's a good buddy. Yeah. And he told me the hardest thing in bodybuilding was eating enough food. The training, yeah, it's a little bit hard. Dieting was a little bit hard. But off-season was brutal. And one of the big key aspects of success is how well you're actually digesting, absorbing, and utilizing the food that you're consuming. So there's a big myth in all of the nutrition books, which is that if I put...

And the assumption is that whatever I put into my mouth converts completely into the useful building blocks or energy units. And your state of your gut biome is probably the long-term factor in your dietary success. There's always going to be genetic predispositions, but there's way more genes in your bacteria cultures than you have inside your body. I think it was what, 22,000 genes in the human genome and it's like 3 million or whatever in your microbiome and they interact. And so we live in this symbiotic relationship and our digestive system requires enzymes, hydrochloric acid, and probiotics in the right amounts relative to the diet.

So if you looked at, say, Matt's microbiome, he's on a ketogenic diet, and my microbiome, even though we're advocating a lot of the same principles, we have completely diverse microbiomes because of the dietary regimens that we've been following for decades. And without understanding that and the relationship between your microbiome and your genes, your predisposed aspects of your biology, you're really throwing darts in a dark room at a dartboard. Yeah. And just to wrap up on the fasting, Peter Attia and Tim Perris talked about how they've lost lean muscle mass doing a lot of intermittent fasting. And again, a lot of people don't have good genes for fasting, specifically people that tend to have Mediterranean genes. Because you think about, again, I've been to Greece.

So this would be like from Weston A. Price, the more equatorial types. Yeah. That didn't go through harsh winters, that didn't have a large game, but had warmer... Carbohydrates were available year round. You didn't experience a cold winter, that kind of thing, right? Olive trees, et cetera, et cetera. And Wade and I both have Northern European genetics. So our ancestors had to survive cold, long, hard winters.

So for me, I thrive on fasting. I mean, I've been doing a lot of five-day fasts this year and it's working like magic, but other people, their heart rate will go up, their HRV will crash, they feel horrible. So again, even fasting, which is being touted as an incredible thing, is not for everyone. easily because that's a preservation aspect. And I think a lot of people in the modern world haven't recognized, and bodybuilders figured this out, you know, we're not supposed to have excessive amounts of muscle mass or super low levels of cosmetically appealing body fat levels. And bodybuilders, you know, push that to the limit of, you know, overriding millions of years of genetic predispositions through training methods, dietary methods, hormone manipulation, etc. And some of that technology can be applied if you understand where you fit within the spectrum of your own genetic potential. And just to give proper praise here, Wade competed at 50 years old, won a bodybuilding

show in California, then competed at the Natural Mr. Olympia in Las Vegas at 50, and then ran a marathon six months later. Beast mode. I mean, it's just great evidence that with the right strategies, you can do these things. Yeah. And again, one of the things that we talk about is five main goals. And so obviously the goal of competing at the Natural Mr. And again, one of the things that we talk about is five main goals. And so obviously the goal of competing at the natural Mr. Olympia, you know, so I'm not augmented by TRT or any of the supplementation and I'm not against those things that, but those are the rules that you're following. Just like you can't bring an ax to a UFC fight. Okay. Good example, right. Because it's that much of an advantage. Let's be clear. Okay. And then, but switching gears to go run a marathon six months later with no, I hadn't, like I hadn't

ran since I was a teenager. So it's literally 35 years of no endurance training, no background. I could easily make that transition and, you know, run a marathon in four hours. And, you know, I was surprised. I didn't know if I could do it. I tried it, but my dietary strategy, my training strategy all changed to that goal. So you might, maybe Matt, you might want to talk about some of the different outcome goals, because that's a big part of the directional aspect. I please do. And I think it's just to frame it. It's incredibly important to understand where you want to go because a lot of people understand like in their mind, they're like, well, I want to lose, I want to lose fat.

And then some other guys are like, I'm young. I want to gain muscle. And there's, you know, some, some people that have been around the block, you know, maybe they followed the Zillow or somebody and they've done, they've done their own experimentation where they, they find that they can have goals that kind of combine them. We're like my dad, he needs to lose fat, but he also wants to gain muscle and be stronger at the same time. Is there an order to that? How does that arc look from periodization? So I think the outcome goals are incredibly important because that also changes. If it's not one size fits all and it's individual, cool, but it's also beyond that, it's based on your

individual goals in concert to all the other things you have going on, microbiome, genetics, et cetera. Exactly. Just to wrap up on Wade's story, we have a whole chapter on the psychological side. And Wade has the psychological profile of a rebel. So for him, when he's creating prairie goals, like competing on a plant-based diet, doing it at 15 and doing a marathon, it's incredibly motivating for him. And that's what propels him. So the psychological side, knowing how your brain works, knowing how to create the structure that's going to maximize your dopamine is really important. So back to goals. So there's five epic goals and we kind of divided the book that way. So first there's muscle building. There's fat loss.

I mean, there's almost 200 pages of chapters on fat loss. I think it's the best fat loss book that's ever been done. Again, it's like a book within the book. Athletic performance, peak athletic performance. I did train some pro athletes, including some fighters back in the day. Cognitive performance, which for me is obviously critical because I'm a CEO. We have 140 employees. And then longevity, you know, living a high quality lifestyle or lifespan and really maximizing

the lifespan, which Wade and I are both getting at the age where that's critical. So one of the things about goals is, and I learned this as a trainer, is you want to always have a sequence of goals. So with clients, and I kept almost all my clients until I either sold the companies or moved, I would always, before they hit their goal, let's say their goal was weight loss, and I can see they're maybe 10 pounds away, we would create another goal. Because the neuroscience has proven that when you reach your goal, your dopamine drops, right? It's the journey that's driving the dopamine. You see that with a guy who wins an Olympic gold medal.

Oh, yeah. It's like, there's a fucking flat line. Male or women wins the first gold medal. Like, what now? Right? So that's like, obviously, high-end version of that, but it's still matter. Like, if you win a gold medal, you're kind of fucked after that if you don't have something else that you're looking forward to. You always need something else. You always need a goal. And it's the same thing in business. I have a lot of friends that have sold their companies, and a lot of them get depressed until they get that next goal lined up.

Tim Grover identifies that with his high performers, like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, he talks about how literally they're celebrating the championship and then, you know, they're whispering in his ear where they're, you know, the champagne's flowing. It's like, what's next. And those are like on the extreme dopamine driven, like, you know, level of how they stayed motivated for years, even though they have all the success in the world. And then of course you can take that too far too. And there's all sorts of consequences.

I would just finish the Arnold documentary. And he kind of talks about some of the consequences of, you know, being so hyper-focused for so long and how that impacted his family life and some of the decisions. Yeah, Tiger Woods, you know, like his dad being such a focal point and driving him to the point at which, you know, there's issues, right? Like I know several, I won't say I'm on here. I'll tell you after, but like

someone else was on Tiger Woods level, best in sport, lots of dad issues. So like having that, especially for parents out there, like, yeah, you can push your kid and they may turn out to do that, but you know, there, you create some problems there. And especially if it's self-driven as well, because if you can't enjoy what's happening either, then there's a pitfall there, right? If nothing's ever good enough, if, if you, if you can never, you know, quench your thirst. Yeah. We have a whole chapter on the emotional side because, you know, I've got the wiring of an alcoholic, started drinking when I was 12, crashed and burned at 32. I haven't drank alcohol in 14 years. So a lot of that was driven by trauma. And of course, I see it all the time.

And I know all three of us, I don't know you super well, but I know we've all done a lot of emotional work, processing work. And again, knowing people that have food issues, including clients, most of that was driven by trauma. Food can absolutely be used as a drug. I mean, when you eat a Krispy Kreme, which has fat and sugar, your brain has a heroin-like response. Like if you do a brain scan, it lights up like as if you did heroin. You get more serotonin, you get more dopamine. So again, food can be extremely addictive. So again, for people that have, say, food issues or emotional eaters or stress eaters, if they can do the emotional work and process a lot of that trauma, and EFT is an incredible tool for that. Emotional freedom

tapping. That's one of my favorite tools. And there's a lot of good literature showing that it reduces cravings very quickly and people are more successful with their weight loss. So the emotional side is another big part of the picture. Do you guys dive into EFT in the book? Because it's something, I think Mercola was one of the first guys I looked at long before he was one of the dirty dozen, you know, in 2020, uh, he was fantastic. He was one of the first guys talking about the sprint eight workout, high intensity interval training, first guy to bring up, you know, not one of the first, but, but one of the first guys to really dive deeper into ketogenic diets, fasting, how you mirror those two for, for benefits, if

that's something you wanted to do. And, um, I've learned a lot from him, but he was, he had a whole article on tapping. That was really phenomenal. And what I've found is that it's not something that I'm always conscious of unless there's a problem, you know, and then through tapping via the various chakras or meridian points, I can start to work through something. So if I have a bad meal, you know, if I'm out to eat and it's not sitting right, I can start to go up through the chain and actually get my body to release that energy and it'll work through whatever I ate a little easier. If I'm in between a rock and a hard place in a ceremony with plant medicine, tapping can be hugely beneficial. And it's something I'll just intuitively just start doing. My mind still might be in outer space thinking about something else, but I just find exactly where it needs to go. And then I can start to move and process that energy.

Yeah. It's incredibly effective at shifting your nervous system from sympathetic to parasympathetic. So the axiom of healing, like every healing modality, basically the process is you re-experience the pain or you're experiencing pain. And if you can shift your nervous system from sympathetic to parasympathetic, you will be able to process that. And I was definitely a disbeliever. I was not convinced when I first saw EFT.

But then there's a device that you can buy and you can pass it over your skin different points. And then when you're on a meridian, it'll actually tell you. So there's an electrical difference. And just by tapping that, again, you're just shifting that nervous system over. So I use it, you know, anytime I have anything hit me emotionally, that's uncomfortable. I just process it. I don't want to accumulate, I've just, I've spent too much time, energy, money processing traumas. I don't want to accumulate new fresh ones. You're not holding on to fucking baggage. Yeah, I won't do it like in the face of it. You know, if my amazing wife brings something to my attention and kind of catches me off

guard and it's triggering, I'm not going to vocal tone right in front of her face right then. I'm not going to just go, ah. But if I'm alone, if I'm on a walk and I need to process something big, that's one of the ways that all, you know, through vagal toninging, will drop back in to parasympathetic and move that energy out. Just very simple. Ah, or om, like these chanting,

they've been done for many thousands of years. It's another great way to kind of tune the tuning fork back to some harmony. I love oming. Yeah, I think creating mental vigilance around not just your diet, but your psycho-emotional state is a really key aspect and an underestimated aspect of success long-term. We have a pyramid

of nutritional decisions, like what are the foundational components moving up through that to consider as you go to a diet? For example, at the base of that pyramid, we talk about the cultural and spiritual beliefs. So I have a wide ranging array of friends and clients from around the world with different cultures. Some are Hindu and will not eat meat under any condition. I have a lot of Islamic friends that go through the Ramadan of fasting, et cetera, et cetera. So recognizing that even though maybe from a genetic perspective, that might be suboptimal socially or culturally, that's an important part of who you are as a human.

So how do you mitigate the suboptimal aspects while still engaging in what's culturally or spiritually important to you? And I haven't seen anybody address that issue. Matt talked on the psychological and emotional aspects. For example, I'm an emotional eater, right? Like, you know, if I'm stressed out or feeling emotional, I want to binge, right?

And so when I have the tendency to binge or feel that urge to eat more than I'm supposed to, I go, oh, okay, what am I not processing here? What's bugging me? Why am I kind of like checking out psychologically and going on this, you know, food binge? And I can put calories, we have a calories per minute regulation, and I can really hit those high RPMs like a sports car. So being mindful of that, using things like tapping, creating space in order that I can process, you know, like getting away from the machines and all the inputs to say, okay, what am I feeling? What's bugging me? Why am I having this tendency? And then using the

tactics, which we identify of how you can mitigate these and then preemptively recognize them when they come up in the future. And then from there, it's the five goals, which your goals completely shape your diet, right? Again, if you're trying to build muscle mass or gain weight, you need a calorie surplus. If it's weight loss, if it's an athlete, I always tend to recommend trying to stay at maintenance because you want to try to improve your performance. Get to final form, like figure out what your optimal body fat percentage is going to be for your sport. And that differs quite a bit. You know, jockeys, horse jockeys actually have the lowest body fats, which is interesting versus the linesmen, which, you know, they want the padding. So figuring that out, get to final form and then

eat at maintenance because your goal should be to try to focus on improving your skill sets, right? In maximum workout performance, maximum game time performance. And then after that, it's your calories and macros, again, which is shifted or shaped by your goals. And then you got nutrigenomics, which is another tweak, which we strongly recommend everybody gets a nutrigenomic test. We're going to be offering one really soon. Cool. From their gut biome, a gut biome test is another useful tool because again, people have certain probiotic cultures that allow them to thrive on certain types of foods and they might struggle to eat other types of foods. So gut biome is another powerful tool. Then another tool is

food sensitivities and allergies. Now, allergies, obviously people avoid those, but some people have certain nutritional sensitivities. And we have an entire chapter on that. If you guys sound with that, because I've kind of gone back and forth on the fence with that, that if you had something like leaky gut syndrome

and foods aren't getting through and you're not taking mass IOMs, you're not breaking them down completely, something like egg that doesn't make its way all down to the peptide or amino acid form gets through the system, it's going to be attacked and it's going to be registered as food intolerance, food insensitivity to egg, when really it's leaky gut syndrome that's causing a whole host of insensitivities to show up. How do you differentiate what's going on there? Yeah, no, it's a great question. And we have a whole section talking about leaky gut and I've gone through that for a while. I thought dairy protein was bad for me because I would, my feet would kind of blow up and I'd just kind of get some allergic reactions. And then we built a product called microbiome breakthrough. And we

have a lab and the head of the lab. She has a phd in bacteria It's the best product we've ever tested not just ours, but others for forming biofilm So what you want to do to fix leaky gut is essentially seal the gut and that's called biofilm So microbiome breakthrough is phenomenal for that when I started taking that i've been able out now Yeah, it's been out for a while. We'll send you some. It's awesome. By the way, when you end a fast, that's the best way to end a fast. Yeah. A lot of people, when they end a fast, they get kind of that explosiveness on their toilet when they start- Some turbulence.

Yeah. Microbiome breakthrough will correct that. Yeah. Because when you fast for multiple days, bacteria have about a 48-hour lifespan. So a lot of the cultures will start dying or drying out. So that's when we start eating food, even if it's, well, bone broth's a really good option. Because again, that'll help seal the gut. And we have some bone broth in the microbiome breakthrough. But you really want to, again, seal the gut. And it's such a great opportunity to repopulate it with good strains.

So microbiome breakthrough is great for that. But after that, I've been able to eat dairy, have some ice cream once in a while, and I don't have any of the issues that I used to have. So you're correct on that. One of the items on the pyramid of nutritional decisions is supplements. And so we believe in strategic supplementation. And what does that mean? Well, you're going to take supplements based on your suboptimal genetics, like do I methylate this particular vitamin? So for example, as a vegetarian, I have to be very conscious of my B6, B12. I metabolize vitamin C really well, so I don't need as much vitamin C as someone else who

might need an excessive amount. Essential fatty acids, I have to be very conscientious of my essential fatty acids. I use lipolytic enzymes because I'm suboptimal in fat metabolism. Matt developed a product to address that as one of our early ketogenic versus vegetarian fights. It's Capex? Yeah, that's Capex. And so when you understand, because a lot of people say, well, supplements don't work. And then other people people like, oh, all supplements work. Well, no, the right supplement at the right quality for the right goal with the right

person, that's the combination. So a lot of people can eliminate the giant supplement shelf and get, you know, half a dozen of really targeted specific supplements that's perfect for them that allows them to kind of transcend their genetic limitations or to optimize for some externalized goal. And then the tip of the pyramid is lifestyle, which this is where a lot of people fall apart. They get on a diet, only 3% of people succeed long-term, right? They do the work, they lose the weight, but they're essentially doing something that's unsustainable. There's no way psychologically that they can keep going with that. So there's a whole chapter on that.

And here's something interesting about lifestyle and maintaining things. It only requires about 20% of the mental energy to maintain something that it does to build it. And that's true for muscle mass, for fat loss, even exercise. There was research done where to maintain lean muscle mass, you only need about a third of the volume. So again, building it is a lot more energy than maintaining it. And then of course you still need mental vigilance. Wade touched on that earlier. And even myself, there was times where I lost weight, I really got in shape and then just lost that mental vigilance, whether I'm going to see my parents and I gained 10 pounds or whatever. But now I've been able to,

again, enjoy life, go to Europe for three weeks, eat Italian food, do the whole nine yards and come back at the same weight or lose weight. And it's just understanding all these nuances. Yeah, that's massive. I think a lot of people would enjoy being able to go to Europe, eat whatever the fuck they want, and come back having lost weight. Yeah, you can't eat however much you want. Right, exactly. But being selective, either via the totals of it or at least having it.

I gained 14 pounds in three days eating crepes in Paris. We were on a tour for the troops and the volcano went off in Sweden or Switzerland. So all air traffic was grounded and we were on a tour bus and they're like, look, we're going to take you to the U S embassy in Paris just because they want to see you. And it wasn't on the schedule, but we can go there and we know you're not going to fuck off as opposed to going to Amsterdam. We'd really have to watch you and have you on a tight leash. So we go there. And I remember looking at the guys and I was like, I'm going to eat a crepe at every crepe stand I see when I get in there. And I had no idea that there'd be like one right across the street from another, like every five seconds I'd be passing

one. So I did that for a while. And with the gluten swelling, yeah, I swelled up real quick. It was like 14 pounds of water weight and a little bloating, but it was worth it. It was hilarious. It was made for a good story. Lots of Nutella. Yeah. And we talk about alarms because back to mental vigilance, having alarms is such a great tactic. Yeah. One of the ways that I was able to maintain an ideal body fat is I used a classic bodybuilding technique is where into the low 170s and then allow myself to recoil up to as much as maybe 190. So my range is going to be between 175 and 190. Usually at my body weight, I top out at 10 pounds. If I hit that top end where I go to 190, the alarm bell goes off and says, okay, you're losing sight of the pattern. You're having a few too many indulgences and it's time to dial

it back down until I get to my optimal level. So the mid-range point is a key element. And a lot of people, when they diet, they go to what they think is their ideal weight. But I'm suggesting go below that and then advocate the reverse dieting strategy so that you can hit your optimal weight. And then once you have that down, then you can start having these variants where you can do all kinds of experiments like crepes in France or extended periods of fast or some other aspects that you want to explore on the impact of diet and how it affects your physiology or your consciousness. I've never heard anyone talk about that before, but it's, it's brilliant. It's actually something that I've been doing for

quite some time since fighting ended is I would, you know, have a period of time where I was going to be powerlifting and I was training with Jesse Burdick. I got up to 238. I didn't want to be above 240. You know, that was where my alarm went off, you know, I was like, I don't 240. I kind of feel the old injuries, just too much to carry. And I can't run if I want to run. And then I dropped down to like 216 for a half marathon with my wife, you know, and I'd feel really good. They're doing a trail half marathon and kind of went back and forth. I did a, uh, an ultra at 238, you know, and I was like, that was, that was no joke in Zion. Um, but you know, really playing with that, I kind of oscillate where 222, 225 is my ideal ish. And I might

drop down to 218 and then back up to 230, but I let the alarm go off at 230 now because anything past that won't translate in jujitsu. I can still run. I can still jog at that weight, but I can't, you know, I'll gas too quickly on the mats, you know, so thinking of it that way, that's kind of where I got my parameters for me right now. And, um, and I feel really good. The truth is I feel really good everywhere in between there. You know, I've got a little bit more muscle mass at two 30, uh, you know, probably a little slower, you know, in boxing and things like that. But as I drop, I got a lot of speed. I have a little less power, you know, and it, all of it feels good, but it just constantly keeps me, um, you know, there there's, it's like having a bumpers, you know, in, in, in bowling,

I got these bumper lanes set. So if I get a little too far to the left, it bounces me back to the middle. You know, um, we have a concept that we, um, advocate in our company and and it's a pyramid we call aesthetics, performance, and health. Most people get into a dietary regimen out of cosmetics. They're looking for aesthetic appeal. As we move through the middle stages of life, you've got career, family, maybe you're an athlete who have specific goals. You're really a performance person. And I encourage people to think like an athlete who have specific goals. You're really a performance person.

And I encourage people to think like an athlete. Think of their life of how do I perform at the best for my family, for my work, for my community, whatever those interests are, and recognize the importance of a performance-based diet. If you're waking up tired every day, you're not optimizing your performance. If you don't have the energy to sustain endurance-type items, whether that's being at work

for a long period of time, picking up the kids and all that sort of stuff, you have to recognize that your diet is suboptimal to perform in your role as a father or mother inside or taking care of elderly patients. And so that's the importance of that. And then ultimately, it all falls back to the base, which is your health. As we get older, degeneration is a part of the human condition. But we can optimize that, even maybe stall it. And now with technology, reverse some of that damage for at least for a period of time looking at the long-term game and almost everybody i mean obviously you know fighting in a cage

is a performance but it's not really that healthy and i would say all sports is not really healthy having a family's probably not that healthy you know as far as you don't want to be a perfect specimen but i think you want to go to lose sleep for three years you know you have a number of number of knocks against your streps levels through roof. Yeah. And, and, you know, having a, the perfect life is not the goal. It's to mitigate the challenges of life because the pain trains come, you know, stopping at everybody's life inevitably, but health helps you maintain resilience during the challenging periods of life, including aging or areas of life where you get really put to the test from the stress that's going to happen to everybody in life. And just to tie that back to goals, what Wade outlined is a great kind of life vision.

We both got into bodybuilding as teenagers because we felt weak. We wanted to attract women, all that stuff, right? Yeah, I remember that. Right at 13. We thought that was the solution to everything. Yeah. And then again, in my 20s, I got really deep into mixed martial arts and hand-to-hand combat. And that was more, again, the athletic performance side. Then I've shifted now into more cognitive performance because entrepreneurs, CEOs are really mental athletes. And as Wade said, now we're shifting into aging, anti-aging, trying to live as long as possible. My goal is 170. So I've just wired my brain constantly to always have the next thing, as I mentioned earlier. And no matter what age you are, I think building a vision for what your life's going to look like and be like is really important.

I like that. You're probably the first healthy person that I've seen say you wanted to live past 150. I don't want to name names, but, you know, there's a lot of biohackers and dorks out there who said they're going to live to 150. And you're like, dude, you might not make it to fucking 90 with that body. Like, it's just not working. But yeah, I mean, you guys, you guys clearly walked the walk. You guys look phenomenal. You know, the shit inside and out. And I think the bridge that you guys are making for people is such an important one. I first noticed it just

through the product lineup. I was like, you got veggie zymes because a lot of people, you know, they go plant-based and I've done this before, uh, for ayahuasca dietas, you know, where I'm eating vast majority of my calories are coming in from plants and I need assistance in breaking those down. You know, and if I've not, I see like, you know, leaves coming out in my, my shit, like I've stopped breaking down the lettuce. So I'm not breaking down some of these things without it. Um, and even for somebody like me, who does more, you know, more of a polar style does well with high fats. If I jump, you know, from, uh, um, you know, moderately say 50-50 where I'm doing meat and potatoes or lots of starches, lots of carbohydrates and a heavy performance setting.

And I say, cool, now I'm gonna hit my keto reset diet for three weeks and immediately shift gears to 80-20 fat to protein and carbohydrates. That's, I'm gonna get the runs pretty fucking quick unless I'm taking something like Capex. That's going to help me absorb all that. We do a five-day fasting mimicking diet right here at the farm every year in January. We live on the marketing of everyone's New Year's change, right? So people want to hit the reset button. We call it full temple reset. And the fast is a part of a physical reset, but also a mental, emotional, and spiritual one. Put them through a lot of Kelly Sturette and Aaron Alexander's mobility. We do sauna and ice bath every day. And then Eric Godsey, who's a Jungian analyst,

breaks down Jungian symbology, dream interpretation, which translates very well to altered states and plant medicine work. And it's the full temple. Then we finish with a sound healing. But I have KPEX on fucking hand for everybody because a lot of these people have never done any form of fasting in their life before. And I'm giving them a, you know, medical keto shake once a day. So they're on a 23 and a half hour fast, and then they get a thousand calories of fat with a little bit more carbohydrates for the ladies and the men. But yeah, like a lot of people complain about that until we started including those enzymes. Boom, diarrhea goes away instantly. And you're like, now you're absorbing it, right? When you have diarrhea on a fast like that, and it's fasting mimicking, not a true water fast, you're just shitting out all

the calories, the little bit of calories you would have had, you know, had available right then. And, and it's a big complaint too, for people that switch to just a ketogenic diet, you know, not quite as hardcore as, as a water fast or fasting mimicking, they run into those issues. Like I'm just shitting everything out. I'm cramping. I'm not holding enough electrolytes. And I think there are certain key things that we can do, like you said, when you supplement intelligently that matter. Also, there still is this fallacy, and we talked about this the last time you were on the podcast, Wade. A lot of people think that our modern food supply is healthy enough to supply all of our vitamins and minerals and nutrients, and that's just not the case. And you dove deep into the science on magnesium and how

that's degraded in stages throughout modern monocrop culture and farming. And that's one that we all need. There's just no two ways about it. Yeah. Orthomolecular nutrition developed by Abram Hoffer, Dr. David Hawkins, and two-time Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling, where they applied it first to psychology of using super saturated levels of nutrition to deal advanced states of mental illness. And that spawned orthomolecular nutrition and its application. People can Google all that information, some amazing stuff. But talking about the diarrhea aspect, especially

when someone's making a radical dietary change or taking super physiological dosages of a particular element, it's called breaking the GI barrier. It's one of the ways that you can also strategically hit your threshold for supplementation. And we have strategies. There's a nutritional supplement book where we talk about that. Matt, maybe you want to clarify that with this book, we've got 875 documented scientific periodicals or journal entries that were actually where the science is there, but we've also provided some additional things so that when you get to those decisions around supplements or diets of what things you can offset. You want to talk about that, Matt? So the initial draft of the book was a thousand pages. And then I'm like,

well, you guys are like check. He's got fucking six volumes in a workbook coming out at the end of the year. So we're aspiring. We're not like check. I mean, he's at the top of the mountain. But anyways, we decided, decided hey let's pull out because the supplement chapter just kept growing and we covered like every kind of supplement every every goal not just our stuff so we pulled that out and when you buy the ultimate nutrition system you get a 215 page supplement book and we actually did a summary of the eight of every single scientific reference all 875. So people get a PDF of that.

So if you really want to nerd out on the science, you can dive into that. But just to wrap up on diarrhea, I'm telling you microbiome breakthrough, you know, because sometimes it happens to me. It has not filled yet. I just do three scoops, 500 milliliters of water, drink that. It's over every single time. And so when people come off the fast, I would definitely recommend throwing that.

Let me see if I'm missing anything because I feel like you guys have been a longtime sponsor of the show and I've been a fan of yours for, I mean, a lot longer than since we joined forces on the podcast. I think it was Paul Cech that introduced us and I love Paul for setting me up

not only with great podcast guests, but also helping me with like-minded companies that are, that are doing the good work in the world, you know, um, mass science, HCL breakthrough, uh, sleep breakthrough, which was pretty, pretty new to the game. It's my wife's absolute favorite fucking thing you guys make. She's optimized her sleep for the first time since having Wolf. So it's been three, three years in change and now she's sleeping very well. Um, just a quick comment on that. We've, we're getting a lot of testimonials from mothers about how, you know, sometimes they have to wake up. I've got a 17 month old daughter as well. So they feel so much better with sleep breakthrough and it's the glycine, you know, the, the data on glycine shows that even when you're not getting enough

sleep, you feel a lot better. So I love that. Yeah, you're talking about an amino acid, right? So there's no grogginess from this. And that's the thing that she was really tentative on. She could knock herself out, but if she got woken up early or in the middle of the night, she was fucked the next day. There's no coffee to dig her out of that hole. Now she sleeps fine if she's up at five. I mean, yeah, she feels it, but she does feel quite a bit better, you know, and, and, and sleep is markedly improved. Magnesium breakthrough, which we've, we've, we've discussed in the seven forms of magnesium that go into that, that make it really a unique, one of a kind product that stands up on its own. You know, we were out here with the, with the farm guys and Fox, you know,

our animal manager said that's his favorite thing by far. What am I missing? Gluten guardian, what am I missing? Because this microbiome breakthrough, I'm scratching my head here going, how the fuck did I not know this thing existed? I take the P3OM religiously, especially if we were eating bad food. I want that. Got to go in there and do work, keep the immune system strong. Yeah, we're working on some incredible stuff.

We've been doing a lot of experiments. I'll share something that's cool about K-Pax. So everybody's freaking out about seed oils, right? Now, the science of seed oils, what's bad about them is something called malvealdehyde or MDA. And if you look at the research, it is mutagenic. Okay, but here's the cool part. We did the experiments with Capex. We can break that down into fatty acids. So if somebody's going to, again, eat seed oils. What if they have, sorry to jump in on you. What if they've been, um, you know, eating generally clean, but they eat out all the time. So they're eating seed oils all the time effectively because they're eating out and there's, I can can count on one hand how many restaurants in Austin cook without seed oils.

I think Saladino says that it could take four or five years for those omega-6s to clear the body. So are you saying that Apex can go in and fucking... We break those down. You break down... Even those that are already in the tissue that's not in the meal type, right? No, in the meal. If they're in the tissue, that's another story. Okay.

So I'm talking about with the food, you would take it and you can break the fats down, the maldehyde. So yeah, again, we feel we've built from a digestion perspective. And as Wade said, it's not just eating good food. You got to break it down. It's got to cross the intestinal tract and then get assimilated as either muscle tissue, energy, et cetera. We have the products that can deal with, again, there's no evil foods, but just deal with

foods that are suboptimal, whether it's a pizza, Krispy Kreme diet, or seed oils. We're working on something, we're tentatively call it man stacks. It's a whole hormonal optimization, uh, system, including, uh, penis optimizer. We're working with it.

No, no, it's just, just the working title, but we're working on all that. Um, it's popular amongst the, the,

the bile tribe testers, the people that are experimenting. I'll just, yeah, we got, we got some Hollywood heavyweights that literally, uh literally will call me and say, send me more. So yeah, it's quite effective. We have a new product for women coming out called Cycle Care.

So it's designed to take when they have their periods or on their PMS symptoms. Here's a product you probably haven't tried. It's relatively new called Stress Guardian. Took five caps this morning. I mean, you take that with, let's say, one cap of magnesium breakthrough, I mean, nuclear bombs could be going off next to you and you're like, it's cool. So yeah, it's a phenomenal product. That should be something included in all the prep talk. All these preppers. Comes with your mask. Yeah. Mike Glover, he wrote, uh, uh, prepared and, um, phenomenal dude, you know, uh, uh, former serviceman, I think green

beret, uh, his buddies with Tim Kennedy and a lot of mutual friends. And he talks about the psychology in that, you know, like how, like you could, you can train for various things, but you know, if you're great at sauna and you freak out in a cold tub, you, you odds are, you need to spend some time in the cold tub. You know, if, if loud bangs make you fucking go into a little shell, you should probably go to the gun range and hear some bangs going off.

So you can get accustomed to that, but that is cool. You know, if you could stay, you know, in your, in your quiet center through the eye of the storm, that sounds pretty cool.

So I like the stress breakthrough magnesium combo for the, for the apocalypse time. And then we have a whole newotropics line. We have, I think we're up to 15 different formulas. So we've got something for basically everyone. That's with Nootopia, correct? When you guys partnered with them, who's the name of the guy? Mark Effinger. Mark Effinger. Yeah. He came on fucking gut-wrenching story, but just a brilliant, brilliant human.

Yeah. He's a great guy. Absolutely the best nootropics formulator I've ever met, we've ever met. Met scientist for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're like, my favorite thing in all of this is running experiments. So we have 20 full-time people in our lab. We have a lab in Bosnia and Europe and like every week, every Tuesday, I mean, every week we're probably running 20 to 30 experiments. So we're, you know, we've reformulated mass times, mass times 5.0 is about 30% stronger than the last one. So you you'll be getting some of that soon, or it's, it's actually out right now. Yeah. We reformulated all the enzymes, Capex as well. So all the enzymes are stronger. We're working on a new version of mag breakthrough. We think it'll be 50 to a hundred percent better.

We've created a new magnesium that's never been done before. So we're going to patent that. So yeah, I mean, we're just trying to push the innovation. I mean, our goal is to create best in class products. Our goal is to be at least twice as good as the second best, and then just prove it with the science and the data. I love it and you got you know the the the cost you know is is something that you guys have always done such a great job on i i had a lot of uh discount codes that are 20 you know and and this isn't

poo-pooing on my other sponsors but so a lot of some people will be like oh it's only 10 i'm like dude they're these guys have very low cost considering the the efficacy of their products and like the 10% is yeah, fuck yeah. Like, but it didn't cost a lot to begin with. I understand that I've worked in the supplement game. You know, they're not raking it in from a, from a cost perspective. There was a product for a, for a company I used to work for that cost us six bucks and we sold for 90. Well, you know, that was the margin on that, you know, and it happened, didn't happen initially, but over time with the success of that,'s what it was so i'm aware of that shit you know and you guys are coming in at a

fucking great price right from the get-go and you guys have a lot of the bundle support and things like that that make people when they know what they want like me i can buy in bulk and just know that i'm not going to run out of that but i'm also that's not going to go to waste it's going to get used at some point in time considering i got four got four people that are into it in the house. Yeah, and everything that we do is backed by our 365-day money-back guarantee. And why do we do that? Is it because we think the products don't work? No, we have a product for just about everybody in our whole suite, but someone may not have chosen the product

that's going to work specifically for him. So the book is designed to help you determine what products might be right for you in addition to your diet. But the guarantee makes sure that if you're putting your money towards bioptimizers, if for whatever reason that didn't work out for you, one of our customer concierge agents will help you address where you might have gone wrong, suggest another product, send it out to you, you know, to take care of that issue. Or we'll just give you your money back. No questions asked so that you can reinvest that capital into what might be the right

supplement for you, whether it's from us or for someone else, because we really respect the fact, hey, times and economics are real for most people. If you're going to spend your hard earned money, 40, 50, a hundred bucks, 200 bucks, whatever that is that you're going to deploy towards your health, you want to make sure that you're getting the value for it because there's nothing more expensive than a product that doesn't work for you. And our refund rate is around 1%, which is way, way, way below average. So yeah, products rock. So yeah, people want the book and it's not just the book.

So we spent a week in the Hollywood Hills filming the entire book. So you guys do videos from chapter by chapter? Talk a bit about that. Yeah, we literally filmed for a week. So we filmed, you know, essentially all the content.

So people prefer, again, a video format. A lot of people prefer that. Again, you go to ultimatenutritionsystem.com forward slash Kyle. What's your discount code? Is it Kyle? Kingsboo, usually all caps K I N G S B U, but we can use Kyle. Okay. We'll do Kings. We'll do Kingsboo. We'll get it set up for by the time the podcast set up. So ultimate nutrition system.com forward slash Kingsboo. Again, you can get the whole package, including the video course. You're going to get the hard copy of the book, which we'll ship to

you. You're going to get the supplement book, three different cookbooks. So we have a carnivore cookbook, a plant-based cookbook, a paleo cookbook that's included, uh, just an incredible value. So check that out. And of course, Bob to misers.com for all the supplements. Well, where can people follow you guys? You guys on Instagram, Twitter, any of that shit? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm poking around here in the in-between trying to try to avoid the shit like I am.

My wife runs the Instagram and I'll throw something on Twitter and occasionally catch myself wasting 20 minutes of my time. Yeah. I'll do a story of my cats or something like that once in a while but yeah no matt galant uh on instagram yeah and you can just reach all of you know just put in by optimizers on instagram and you can find all our information and content we're very content heavy and we're about to take it to the next level too so content wise yeah we're revamp our social media i mean there's so much content in this book that

we'll probably be able to create a thousand or 2000 little tactical things that people can implement in their lives. Very fucking cool. Well, I've loved you guys up until this point, and I'm super excited to be on the squad with you and to see everything that you've guys been working on. That's about to come to fruition. It seems like you got a lot of seeds in the ground that are about to flower. So thank you. My hat's off to you. I appreciate the good work that you guys are doing and I'm stoked. Thanks for guys for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us. Yeah. Thank you.