Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #338 Montana Boy Changing Lives One T-Shirt At A Time w/ Chad of Mental Joe

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

Chad from Mental Joe Apparel is a good ol boy! Born and raised in Billings, Montana, and the product of a young divorce. He sought comradery and something larger than himself through military service and of course through some trials and tribulations there he found himself on the SSRI/Benzo/pain killer train to hell. A life changing/saving experience with Ketamine eventually pulled him out of that and has him on a path to helping provide healing for others in need through his apparel company, Mental Joe. Give this a listen, hollar at ya boy with anything that came up for you. Love yall  Connect with Chad: Website: MentalJoe.com  Instagram: @mentaljoeapparel  Facebook: Mental Joe Apparel    Show Notes: KKP #330 w/ Catharine Arnston Apple Spotify Ziva Meditation The Science of Mindfullness "Getting in the Gap" -Wayne Dyer "Becoming Supernatural" -Joe Dispenza       Sponsors: Energy Bits Head over to Energybits.com and stock up. Use code “KKP” at checkout as they’re hooking us up with a whopper 20% off! Paleovalley Some of the best and highest quality goodies I personally get into are available at paleovalley.com, punch in code “KYLE” at checkout and get 15% off everything! Lucy Go to lucy.co and use codeword “KKP” at Checkout to get 20% off the best nicotine gum in the game, or check out their lozenge. Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Twitter: @KINGSBU  Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Today's guest is Chad from a company called Mental Joe. Don't worry, it is not a supplement company. And a side note here, I had asked for people to reach out about the podcast. I still want that. I want that all year long. Please reach out at Living With The Kingsburys on Kingsboo

or at Kingsboo on Twitter. And tell us what you like about the podcast and what you want to hear more of and what you want to hear less of. Totally cool. We had our first response that I saw said more on lifestyle, spirituality, mobility, optimization, less supplement owners or less supplement companies. So totally get that. I've appreciated having supplement guys on in the past because I too was a supplement guy working

in that industry. And I'm still fascinated by the latest, greatest shit that comes out. So the people that I do have on, I do really appreciate what they're doing in the game and they know it inside and out. Catherine Arnstrand was one of those from Energy Bits. So I'll talk about her in a minute, but that lands for me. And the more feedback I get like that, the better, because then you guys will get to hear the guests that you actually want. And I'm excited to do that. I mean, I think there's a giant world full of people and an infinite number of people to podcast with. So help me steer the ship and I'll number of people to podcast with. So help me

steer the ship and I'll find awesome people within what we're all looking for here. So appreciate that feedback big time. Chad is awesome. I heard about him through my homie, John Cal Callahan and a former veteran who had a fucking really interesting career in armed forces and really sought out plant medicines to help him. And we've had a few guys on from military backgrounds. Johnny Wilson comes to mind, a former Navy SEAL, and many others that have healed themselves in that way. Each story is unique, and it doesn't get old for me at all

because of the uniqueness of each person. The uniqueness of a military career in and of itself is fucking wild to me. And the fact that there is healing found with these modalities is really fucking powerful to me. I love that story because that is a similar story to how I live and what's helped me out most in life. So I know you guys are going to dig this one. Chad's story is fucking awesome. And what they're doing in the world with Mental Joe is even more awesome.

Just fucking rad. I don't wanna give anything away. You guys are obviously gonna love this podcast. Tell me what you think of this podcast and reach out, mentaljoe.com. Reach out to Chad. Thank him. You will want to.

And if you need help figuring shit out, he's a great resource. So support this show by sending it far and wide with homies, just friends you know that listen to podcasts. Share it with a friend that listens to the podcast. Share it with somebody from the military. Share it with somebody who is curious about plant medicines. And you can hear the N equals one of Chad, which is really phenomenal. And then after that support our sponsors, they make this show possible. They keep the lights on, they keep it running. And I absolutely love these guys. Every one of these sponsors has been with us either for a short time or a long time, but they're absolutely incredible. Energy Bits is the new one.

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Chad. Clap us in. The dog gets scared. You're okay, Wopo. Come here, boy. The old sound check. Yes, sir. Well, let's jump into it, brother. Tell me, I mean, we met through the homie Cal, John Callahan, who's been on this podcast a handful of times. One of the first homies I met in moving to Austin and working with Aubrey. I've told that story a number of times in this podcast and he's been on it. But, you know, Cal's one of those guys where if he intros me to somebody, like I immediately pay attention.

And I think right when he intro'd us, I didn't quite have the bandwidth. And he sent me out some swag and then I fucking remembered and I was like, oh damn, I need to do this. And I was thrilled that you were going to fly in for it because it's not always the case. A lot of people are busy or just don't have the bandwidth to do that, so I appreciate you coming out to the farm. I'm excited to show you around.

Yeah, I'm excited to be here, and I kind of feel the same way. It's like I've got to break bread. We can do the whole fucking Zoom thing all day long. I just don't feel that. So it's like let's be in person. Let's see what it's about. Let's get after it that way because you can do the whole fucking Zoom thing all day long. I just don't feel that. So it's like, let's be in person. Let's see what it's about. Let's get after it that way. Because you can do the Zoom shit all day.

Everyone does it. I'm not a fan. I appreciate it. If I'm with somebody like Dick David Ikes across the pond, I'm not flying to fucking England anytime soon. Correct, yeah. Cool, we make that work. Some of the other old timers are great.

Sean O'Leary wrote Setting God Free. Fucking amazing book on spirituality, 48-year Catholic priest in Ireland. Oh, shit. And now has studied Eastern mysticism and fucking all sorts of cool shit. Yeah. He's dialed the fuck in.

He doesn't do too much traveling, but still worth it, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And then face-to-face is just night and day better. There's no question about that. So I appreciate that. The show usually rolls, if you're listening to this everybody knows how the show rolls but i i love the arc of you know what was life like growing up what got you to become who

you are and obviously you've got a fucking great story so i want to dive into that deeply and then you know we finish off with where we're at today and what you're doing in the world which is awesome i appreciate it i appreciate it yeah so we'll just yeah we'll dive into it so i'm a middle child of three of an older brother younger sister um and then my mom and dad uh divorced at a very young age uh my dad alcoholic abusive grew up extremely poor you know standing in line for for food and had the good up extremely poor, you know, standing in line for, for food and had the good old government punch stamp, you know, for lunches and stuff. Before like the EB cards or whatever. Yeah, correct. I mean, I had the monopoly money and going and buying milk and shit.

And then at school, you know, I had the punch card and stuff, you know, that was free government meals and, but yeah, grew up in Billings, Montana. Oh shit. I was just out there with Bear. I don't want to cut you off but i was like i know billings and somebody mentioned somewhere in wyoming or montana yeah i have a reference point now we've been there twice but keep going yeah phenomenal food it was really weird how good the food was in billings really weird that's not expecting this at all we made a point to stop there on the way back too yeah so when i grew up billings was roughly 80 to probably 85 000 so in general you know small town but the so-called big city up there in montana yeah so grew up being a montana kid had an uncle i had a huge ranch up in scoby

montana which is up on the high line just really close to to canada okay and stuff so we'd go up further west or central it's it's probably it east. Okay, so just north of Billings then? Yeah, kind of a straight shot up if you could go the way of the crow flies. So we would go up there, and I really loved it. He was a gentleman that I really looked up to because I didn't have that in my life. I didn't really have a dad to look up to and whatnot. But was the middle child, was kind of the troublemaker, was kind of the fence rider, was kind of like, let's test everything I can. And the mom kind of raised us with an iron fist,

you know, being a single mom and she's got three and four different jobs. And, you know, I would go out at night and clean offices and shit with her, you know, so grew up extremely poor. To the fact we kind of joke about it, there's a little quick mart that was at the end of the block. And no bullshit, what we would do is the Frito-Lay guy would come down the alley, and we'd always get a little bit of a honk. And so we'd run down there, and they would throw the day-old shit in the trash can. So then I would jump in the trash can. I'm throwing it out the other side as he's throwing it in.

My brother and sister are grabbing it, and they're running it back to the house so then we just load up the pantry with you know fritos doritos whatever the hell we could get our hands on it was fucking free so i was like only you're the only you're the second person now my wife is the only dumpster diver i've ever met in college and flagstaff and i'm like you're a gangster you're cut from a different cloth yep so we i you know that was kind of the thing and i'd always use the chips as a negotiating tool to get some chocolate milk you know back in the day but group again just grew up extremely poor it you know it sucks you know as i've gone through this stuff i've realized right what i learned from my parents is they didn't have the skill set they didn't have the bandwidth they didn't have the knowledge to you know be their present like said

my dad you know sadly he came from a home that was, you know, I think abusive and verbally abusive. And his dad was an alcoholic as well. So there you go with the generational trauma. We're just going to keep carrying this shit forward, right? So went to high, you know, went into high school, went to Billings Senior High. If you drove there, it's right on Grand Avenue. And, you know, wasn't much of an, I mean, I was a good athlete, but I, it's right on, right on grand Avenue. And, uh, you know, it wasn't much of an, I mean, I was a good athlete, but I wasn't, I wasn't a home run.

Right. So I was really, believe it or not, I was actually a pretty good little wrestler. Um, all the way up to about the eighth grade, I took city my seventh grade year. And then my eighth grade year ended up breaking my hand in a little fight with my brother. And I can still remember the coach at my junior high being pissed off because he knew like there's a possibility probably was going to take city again and then get into high school and I couldn't have been more than a buck 10 I mean I was tiny and I remember coach Reed coming up to me and kind of saying hey man we're excited to have you this year you know we're you know we need someone in your weight class and I was like I'm not I'm not wrestling and he's like well why

not I was like I'm gonna do basketball and the switch to that for me yeah right he was looking at me you fucking idiot and the switch for me now that I can reflect back on it was I was super embarrassed being this small kid to get into a singlet and to get out there on a wrestling mat in front of all these you know girls that got boobs and the whole nine yards. You're the only fucking kid there too. Like that's a whole different experience. Exactly. So I can look back at that now and go, well, why didn't I follow through with that? And that was why, you know, I figured, okay, all the cool kids that, you know, they do basketball and football and all these bigger sports, like I'll do basketball. So went through high school. I was pretty much just like, so it wasn't the star athlete, you know, went through high school. I was pretty much just, like I said, I wasn't the star athlete.

Went through that and ended up probably my senior, summer of my senior year, jumped into the military. Just went in and signed the documents. And my ASVAB score was shit. I was a C student. I just didn't care. I was more of a socialite, right? Just let's just go have fun.

Let's be good to people. I just didn't care. I was more of a socialite, right? Just let's just go have fun. Let's be good to people. Let's do our thing. The sports was done after I cut my junior year. I was like, okay, not a full-blown athlete. Fuck it. Like, that's not my role. So I went in. I signed.

Say again, Army, was it? Yeah, I was in the Army. Yep, was in the Army. And when I went in, I was just 11 bang bang, which is straight infantry. They had no airborne tied to it, nothing. So I graduated through the cap in the air. That thing wasn't even on the ground yet, and I was on a plane to Fort Benning, Georgia. So I went out there, did basic.

About eight weeks in, nine weeks in, ended up getting an airborne slot. So I went to airborne school, knocked that out. And then probably the third or fourth week, just towards the end there, Ranger liaison came down and I was like, Oh, Ranger battalion. I've heard about these guys. They're, they're kind of wicked. All right, fuck it. I'm in. So sign that dotted line. And before, you know, graduated airborne school, I'm sitting there and we're in this huge barracks and there's I think it's like three stories to these old school airborne barracks and you can see the guys and they're peeking out the windows and they're they're checking us out and the fucking cadre are already at it they're yelling at us they're smoking us and from airborne school and down to 75th range

regiment it's roughly I want to say it's probably a mile. Could be a little shorter than that, but it was a dead sprint. And so we get down there, and it's balls to the walls. And back then, it was called RIP, which is Ranger Indoctrination Program. They don't beat around the bush. No, they just said, we're going to get after it, you know? They're like buds. They're like, okay, that sounds kind of cool, you know? Like, well, who are you going to?

Yeah, yeah. Ranger Indoctrination, you know, it just goes right, like, okay, that sounds kind of cool. You know? Yeah. Ranger indoctrination. It just goes right. We're here to fuck you up and change you as a person. 100%. And now I think it's called RASP. But yeah, so went through that. Had the intake for like a week and a half. And during that intake, it's getting your bunks and getting all your gear and a whole nine yards.

And then smoke session three, four times a day, just to see mentality wise, like who can hang. And there's this ranger, Jeff Struker. At this point, it was Sergeant Struker. He, if you're familiar with Blackhawk Down, he was the sergeant in the Humvee where all of his guys ended up getting killed in that Humvee and they washed out the Humvee, threw new dudes in it, and they went back after it. So he was one of our cadre. So to have this Hall of Fame Ranger who's sitting here going through this, and I'm like, oh, dude, this guy is just going to abuse us.

Because just that year in 96, he won the Best Ranger competition, which is one of the toughest competitions, civilian or military-wise. They have it on ESPN now every year. So it's kind of a new thing they're doing. But went through that. Just, you know, I made it through. I think we had a class of, again, $1.25 or something like that. I think we graduated 20 or 30 guys total and then dispersed from there.

That's pretty good, though, 20% when you think of like other, other, uh, special ops programs and things like that. 20% seems like a good group. A good group. Yeah. And for me it was, you know,

again, because I wasn't, like I said, I didn't really have a role model growing up. You know, I didn't really have a male figure to look at. My dad was an outdoorsman. He fished,

he hunted, but I don't fish and hunt today. And there, you know, there's kind of reasons behind that. We've got to change that. But keep going. Yeah, yeah.

So my thought was if I go into the military, I'm going to have the ability to be around a bunch of alpha males, maybe find a mentor, go through this programming of this stuff, and maybe I can prove to myself that I am worth some shit and I can kind of hang with these dudes. Went into battalion. Did well did really well in fact it was part of the weapons uh platoon and in the weapons platoon you got mortars carl gustav if you're familiar with that weapon system and then sniper section that was back like you said this is 97 um so did the gustav and it's an 84 millimeter coreless rifle and this thing is a banger. I mean, they literally, it's a new weapon system

as of probably seven or eight years ago. So, I mean, this is years ago. I was one of the very first guys or teams, our Gustav squad, was to train with the Javelin. If you hear all the Javelins going to Ukraine and all this bullshit, right? So we were one of the very first trainees on the javelin system as well. So that was kind of cool, you know? But through that, all the live fires, things that we would do, I mean,

you would keep a loom and things on objective, you know, for live fires and that. And we'd walk out of some of these things with our backs hunched over, bleeding out of our nose, bleeding out of our ears, just because of the concussion of that, the goose stuff, and you've got three or four of these things in a line, you're just... I can only imagine that, too, especially because, you know, you don't figure this shit out initially.

You're the guinea pigs. Oh, 100%? You know, as a kid, you're probably like, fuck yeah, we got the best brand-new equipment. We get to be the first guys to take this out. Yep. And then later, you know, like, Hey, that roller coaster I went on that was a wood actually causes micro concussions at every turn, you know, and the newer ones are safer because they're smoother and the metal one,

you know, like that kind of thing. It was like, damn, how many times I had to ride that fucking wooden roller coaster? 100%. Yeah. And so that has come and I'm still fighting with the VA for, for benefits and shit. Um, I was one of those guys that said, I got all my legs. I got all my arms. I'm not fucked up. I'm good to go. And years, and I'll get into that. But years later, now I'm realizing, oh, maybe I do have some TBI issues.

Maybe I do have this. Maybe I've got this going on. Now, going through plant medicine and ketamine and things of that nature, now I have the wherewithal to go fight for my advocacy to say, no, like, okay, I get it. I didn't go through the massive combat zones of some of these guys. Right. And, and the stat is really, if you look at military over a whole, um, range of things, it's, it's two to 3% of the military, right? People in there that actually go to combat. There's really 96, Especially early at that time, right? It was before all that shit hit the fan

and then 20 years of war and everything. Exactly. It kicked on, right? Yep, and we're in that realm where it was like, Clinton was the president, I believe, at the time. So the military got downgraded a little bit. So we were training balls to the walls every fucking day, but our budget ended up getting cut. So we weren't really training to to the walls every fucking day, but our, um, our budget ended up getting cut.

So we weren't really training to probably the level at Ranger Battalion soft guys are normally held to because of that. Um, but yeah, so we, you know, I went through the Ranger Battalion stuff we did. Uh, so the, the fall of that is I was getting ready to transition or being talked about going through sniper section. We did a sniper school. I think it's first or seventh special forces group is out there in Fort Lewis, Washington. And they ran us through because at that time, again, they were cutting down. So they weren't sending a bunch of dudes to the real sniper schools. And so they're like, well, fuck, we got to keep training.

So they came over, taught it. We did the stock. We did everything just like if it was a normal sniper school so went through that graduated that did well there and so we did a jump so we did a jump into spokane fairchild air force base it was a night jump and second ranger battalion is known for airfield seizures right and as we're jumping in it's a night jump and everybody every tom dick and harry you three, four hundred guys in the air at one time, you know, take over this airfield. And as I'm jumping out and I look down, I see a chute and an airborne school. They teach you to run off the chute. Right. You're supposed to run off the chute.

So I see the chute. I just start running and I'm like, fuck, I can't get off this thing quick enough. And back then there were were the round shoots. So there's square shoots now that are tandem when you jump. Back then, it was just the single round shoots, and there was really no control mechanisms to these sons of bitches. Just where it goes. Yeah, just a yard dart, really. So ended up not getting off that chute.

I look up. My parachute ends up collapsing on top of me. And through that, next thing I know, blackout, complete blackout. And wake up, I don't know timing. I don't know where I burnt in from. It was 10 feet, 20 feet, no clue, still can't. Even through plant medicine and putting intention of like, fuck man, I want to remember. Show me this.

Yeah, what are we talking about? me the get back yeah exactly so laying there feeling the whole body i was numb from waist down for quite a while um until i started feeling i could wiggle my toes things of that nature and from there just the whole night was complete dazed they ended up calling off the mission because so many dudes got fucked up on this jump dudes were hitting hangers dudes were hitting planes and what happened the air force ended up flying the wrong fucking pattern they didn't fly with the dz they they flew the other route so we ended up lots of dudes getting fucked up on this this entire jump so you're doing a training jump training that's a lot of people in close proximity hence the crashing into each other's parachutes

and the air force is flying into you guys they flew the wrong way so they have a pattern that they need to fly for safety right and so we're supposed to fly this way i guess you'd say long gate north south let's just say north south of the runway so we can hit tarmac and things of that nature what they did is they flew across it. So now you're flying over buildings, you're flying over planes that are stationed there. And so dudes are hitting. Okay. Yeah.

And so that was kind of the demise, right. At that point. Um, cause again, you're, you're in, you're in soft,

right? Like you're not supposed to be a pussy, take your motor and shut up and go back to work. Right. And that's kind of what I did. I just kind of shut up and just, we knew there's other dudes that got hurt, but there's dudes that compound fractures, you know, massive injuries. And so I'm thinking, okay, I I'm walking, I'm just confused. I'm still out of it a little bit. I don't even remember getting on the plane

and flying back to Fort Lewis. I can't physically, mentally even think about walking back onto the C-130 and flying back. So we get back to battalion and I think we ended up getting downgraded. So in battalion you've got a regiment, they call it, but it's statuses. There's an RR1, an RR2, an RR3, and they're readiness statuses. And we're getting ready to go into, I believe, RR1. But because of that. RR1, like next in line, first position? Yeah, next in line.

I think the timeline was, like, we couldn't even leave base. Like, we would be anywhere in the world within 24 hours. So we've got C-130s just parked across. They're palleted up. You know, you've got your gear at the bottom of your bunk, and you get the beeper. Because back then, we all had beepers. There was no fucking cell your bunk and you get the beeper because back then we had we all had beepers there's no fucking cell phones so you get the beeper four three yeah let's roll so so we got downgraded from that and from there we you know we just trained but

the downfall was i started doing pain pills and it was i mean you could go to the doc you could get them off base i mean you know how it goes. You can get that. You can get Oxy. You can get whatever you need. It's readily available. Well, especially at that time, too. I don't think the lid had been blown up on the opiate epidemic at that point. No. And they're still getting handed out like chiclets.

Yeah, we would call it ranger candy. Like, you would just be popping this shit. And then so goes. I'm buying pain pills, and now I'm fucking drinking, and now I'm not operating at a level that I feel I need to. And things are just unraveling to the point where I was spending so much money on booze and whatever pills I could get my hands on that I was broke. So I ended up calling, well, not calling my mom, but going in and driving into the PX to try to,

you know, okay, I don't have any money. How am I going to call my mom? in and driving into the PX to try to, you know, okay, I don't have any money. How am I going to call my mom? And I walk into the PX just out of my gourd and long story short, went and stole some fucking phone cards thinking, cause back then you had phone cards. So you'd tear those fuckers up, you'd put a little thing and then boom, you could get on the payphone, call home. And that was the only way i was gonna get in touch with mom you know i was like i because i gotta talk to her off base off you know essentially regiment campus so i can talk to her about what the hell's going on well i ended up getting caught and so the guy still remember walking out of the px and the guy's just standing there he goes hey man how many did you get and i'm like what do you mean he's i saw you man you're on camera you got

phone cards and i'm like fuck open up my wallet and go here, man. There's three or four of them here. And he's like, he's like, uh, what unit you with? And I'm like, oh shit. I go, well, I'm with second range of battalion. And he just looks at me and he goes, I'm not going to fuck with you. He's like, cause what they're going to do to you is a whole other story. It's like, all right, man, I got you. So they arrest me and then take my ass back to battalion. And when I get back to battalion, my entire squads outside and they're just looking at me like, what the fuck, man? Why wouldn't, I was like, I was just silent. I didn't know what to say. And I knew what was coming because I did a lot of hazing, right? Cause

hazing was just something you did back then. So I knew. I knew there was blood in the water. I knew it was on. It was a Saturday. And I was like, all right, as soon as I get in there, next thing you know, I'm just mopping and cleaning the barracks for, you know, the next 48 hours. Monday comes along, and we have big formation,

and we're sitting there. And the first sergeant, my name back then was Elder, and I'll explain that then, but I remember him screaming out, you know, PFC Elder, we need you front and center, and I'm like, oh, fuck. So I come up there in front of the entire company. As I'm running up to formation, you can hear guys just kind of mutter like,

oh, they're going to murder this kid. He's done. And so he brought me up in front of the whole company and just, you want to tell your brothers what you did? And just roasted me. It was done. Game over. So that was very uncomfortable.

Then I go in his office and Sergeant First Class Lang, fucking pissed. And I think he was more pissed because he was disappointed because I think he knew I had some potential there. But he bit off my rank, and I ended up getting demoted. And for, I think, like the next month and a half, I was their toy. And, I mean, I got hung outside of the second story barracks in a fart sack, which is a sleeping bag. And I had to recite the Ranger Creed and the whole nine yards. So, I mean, I got fucked with, and I got fucked with hard. I mean, they even, we did

a mortar shoot and they left me out there and I had no idea where we're at. I didn't have a compass and ended up finding my way back to battalion. And that was a whole other shit show. And at that point, I think they realized, okay, we're done fucking with this kid. What I found out just probably seven months ago, I ended up running down my gunner at the time, Philip Matthews, and I ended up calling him. I haven't talked to this guy in 20-plus years. We were on the phone for three and a half hours. And I just told him, I was like, man, I was embarrassed.

I hid from you guys. I changed my last name. I was embarrassed about my my service record because i just i wanted to be a soft guy i wanted to go from ranger battalion to sf to maybe being delta one day that was the goal right i wanted to prove to myself that i could go through this shit and man it was such a relief because him and i talking there and he's like dude he's like you were one of the most squared away fucking cats we ever had you always had the team room dialed in you always kept us fucking in line he's like you've literally been beating yourself up for 20 years over this I'm

like yeah man because you know in Ranger Battalion you're a shitbag you do something like that you're a shitbag and then once I left battalion I went down to um 124 infantry division. It was just a leg unit, no airborne, nothing. When you talk 11, bang, bang, just grunt, grunt. That's, that's what it was. And so you leave and you hear all these whispers from all these guys that you're looking up to, like, good luck in leg line, you piece of shit and the whole nine yards. And it's just like that eats at you and that eats at you. So then you, you create this defense mechanism of like, okay, I'm going to be an asshole. And I'm going to fight out of the corner constantly because that's what I did as a kid, right? I was always fighting out of that corner anyways.

So then it just got to a point where I was just douchebag.com. You know, I would fight anybody, never would really start anything, but I would just, because I had to prove a point. And I figured, you know what, if you're going to pick on me, like we're going to get after it. So everybody else can see like, okay, we're not going to fuck with, with chat anymore on this. So went down, was looking at maybe re-enlisting. Still, my back is still fucked up. I'm getting ready to get out. I'm in for just shy of four years. Ended up getting out and then going back to Billings, Montana. Went to school at MSUB.

At that time, they called it Eastern, but now it's Montana State University of Billings. Was going to school there and then ran into a job fair and ran into an all-state insurance company. They're like, dude, you've got the jam. Why don't you quit school? You can make $100K a year. You can run your own businesses. And being a poor kid, $100K a year to me was like a million dollars. So I'm like, yeah, fuck school, and let's go.

So go back to Billings and start this insurance agency. And through that, the demise of still popping pain pills here and there to, to soothe the back. And then, you know, it's, it's Montana. So I always say, if you're not drinking, fucking or fighting, you're not, you're not doing a whole lot in Montana. You know, that's, that's kind of the, the shtick out there. And so just unraveled from one relationship to another, from one job to the other and just keep unraveling I was in probably bar fights every fucking weekend and to this day it was just it's not who I was and I can reflect now and this I hate saying it but like I won I won homecoming king and what that did for me what

that made me reflect upon back was you got voted by your peers because they liked you for who you were. Cause I wasn't the quarterback. I wasn't the linebacker. I wasn't the star guard of basketball. I wasn't the, you know, the shortstop. I was just a guy. And so now that I'm starting to realize that, like, okay, I need to get back to this core of who Chad is this guy trying to be a tough guy and wanting to fight to try to prove a point that I don't need to prove to anybody needs to fucking go away.

And so I'm learning to try to get back to who that guy is, but I'm still fighting out of the corner and I'm still pissed. And I think this last big ketamine session that I went through kind of brought that all around. A lot of anger came out. I ended up ripping fucking my pants during the ketamine session and ripping like a big – It's an interesting one to have that on the route.

I mean any – there's all these things, especially ketamine is unique in that it can allow you to access any of these other pathways that you've used in the past. So if you have familiar experience with ayahuasca, you do ketamine, all of a sudden it can feel like ayahuasca, like you're in a certain ayahuasca ceremony. But it's also so dissolving that it is curious to me that that would be the medicine where the anger comes up. It's very interesting yeah that pathway was able to bring that up for you yeah and i when i started the the medicine or you know the ketamine was my catalyst into this stuff but going back that that it was probably a month and a half ago i like said i ripped my pants i ripped a blanket i punched like walls they ended up moving me away

from the wall and this was intermuscular tour before it's, it's been previously. Okay. Yeah. Yep. It's been IV. Um, and those were great. Those all opened up pathways as well. But what I got from that last ketamine experience, the, the intermuscular one was I knew what the standard was and I didn't withhold the standards. I didn't put in the reps. I didn't do what I needed to do. I wasn't mad at my mom. I wasn't mad at my dad. I wasn't mad. I was mad at my fucking self because I knew fucking better. And I think that's where in this last two months, I've really started to kind of slow things down exponentially of like, you were mad at yourself because you knew where you needed to go. You knew where you had to hold that standard and you didn't. So let that go. And so now I'm realizing that, okay, maybe the story is that, right,

there's enough tier one guys out there. There's enough, you know, those guys telling their stories and everything. Now it's the average Joe, right? It's the 97, 98% of the veterans out there that don't have a platform, right? You look at any soft communities, whether it's Rangers or SF or Delta or SEALs or PJs, right? They have a tight brotherhood because it's, they're tight nucleases, right? They're tight groups. Most of those guys know each other. You go into the regular Army, Marines, Air Force, you're just a pogue, just doing another job. And so that 97 to 98% of those people that never go to combat, but they do their time and maybe they get injured and they

don't check the box and they don't go to the VA to get the help. I know there's millions of those veterans out there that have the same issues I did, right? Thinking I'm worthless. I didn't go to combat. I didn't, you know, you go through that whole period of stuff and then you hide from your service. Cause you're like, well, I didn't, I'm not a combat veteran. I'm just, you know, I just did time big fucking deal. And so that's where kind of came in the, the Mendel's Joe aspect of this is like, we need to open up the door for the average Joe to realize like they've got a platform too. And these guys and

gals that don't normally get some attention because they don't have the big names behind them, right? They don't have the seal name or they don't have the long tab of an SF guy. Their stories are just as important and they're going through traumas and they've got traumas that they've been holding on for 20, 30 years. And what's been really fucking cool about this whole process when we started Mental Joe was essentially to say, hey, there's another way of healing. Like the traditional way does not work. If the traditional way fucking worked,

we'd have a healthy fucking society, but we don't. People have a very good way of ignoring that. You know, I don't know. It's a master level you know stockholm syndrome or whatever the fuck you want to call it where people just still trust their general practitioner to get them healthy yeah it's mind-blowing but but i think you know for military folks understanding i don't think there's anybody in the military that's like man the va did me right no they're not so So that's one community at least where they've got their head screwed on straight

about what modern medicine care looks like and the failures of that. I got two questions for you. One, I want you to dive into mental Joe and what that is for people that aren't familiar with it. But two, when did you first get switched on? Was it ketamine? Have you done any other medicines?

What does that look like for you? Yeah, so I'll jump back. So this this may it'll be four years and i hate tracking it like you know someone like quit alcohol or anything else but i 396 days exactly that's my last drink yeah but i literally reason i use it is because i can literally now reflect back to who I was fucking four years ago to where I am now. And what happened three and a half years ago is I almost took my life. You know, it's during COVID the fucking world's on fire like it is now. And we're over at a friend's house and I wasn't drinking.

And we just got in a political argument about stuff. And I was like, you guys are fucking lost. You need to open up your eyes, and I ended up believing. They were pro-Biden. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, sir. Let's call it how it is.

Let's call it how it is, yeah. We can all talk about it and joke. Yeah. I'm not mad at you if you voted that way. Yeah, but wake up. Wake up, fuckers. So I got pissed, and I went home, and the wife ended up staying there

because it was one of her friends that she's known for 20 years, and I just laughed. I was pissed pissed and I think it goes back to always fighting out of the corner like I felt she didn't have my back and so I'm at home and I'm just stewing and stewing and stewing about this shit and so she ends up getting home and as soon as she gets home we get in a fucking fight boys are sleeping and her and i are at it and you know we're not screaming but loud enough to where like we know there's some tension there and i she ended up pushing me and then i ended up just reflected pushing her back again that's my fault that's a fucking reaction i i need to control but then back then i didn't have the ability to control

those emotions i just didn't and through that i knew I knew I fucked up. And in my head, I'm like, here we go. I'm gonna fucking get divorced. I'm going to fuck everything up. Like every other relationship, everything else I've done in my life, I'm going to fuck this up. So I walked to the safe, pull out the gun, walk down the hall. I'm staring at her. I've got the fucking gun to my head, got tension on the trigger. And it was like, everything paused. It felt like five or six minutes, but it couldn't have been more than probably 15 seconds. And within that I paused and she looked at me and I just, she started crying. And I walked in my office, pointed the handgun down at the ground, ended up shucking it. And holy shit, a fucking round comes out.

And I'm like, fuck me. That was loaded. Holy shit. And at that time, I didn't know what to do. Ended up walking back, putting the gun in the safe. She is now on the phone with the sheriff's department. So they roll up and i'm i'm on the front front porch you know and i see them roll up and i just you know i walk towards them hands up

and walk towards my truck and they're like what's wrong man i'm like i don't know man but i think i think i think it'd help and it still fuck it still gets me to this day. Especially now seeing my boys at five and six and how much they've grown since that time. Fuck. But I realized that I stole her safe space. I stole that from her. And we didn't hug, we didn't kiss, and I went to the hospital.

And I was impatient for a day or two, and then they shuffled me off to the cuckoo bin for, I think, it was about a week. So I sat there, and through that, I give my call a day. I told her, I can't live like this. Eventually, I'm going to full-on pull the trigger trigger i can't my my mind's never slowed down i'm always trying to fucking fight out of a corner i'm always creating nonsense of my head of different fucking scenarios so i can always be ahead of someone that's coming at me right and i told her i was like i don't care if it's petrified dog shit i will eat it i need a fucking. I can't do this any longer.

And so she did a bunch of research and ended up coming across the Joe Rogan podcast where they ended up talking about ketamine. And so she heard about ketamine and started diving into that. And when I got released, um, you know, I've got all the, you know, this guy's manic depressive, you know, anxiety disorder, OCPD. They gave me all the fucking labels you guy's manic depressive you know anxiety disorder ocpd they gave me all the fucking labels you can imagine and oh by the way here's 150 milligrams of effects or enjoy and i had one counseling thing set up for me and from that moment on like i realized how broken the mental health is in this country what's Effexor an SSRI? Yeah, it is. And they say a therapeutic dose,

and again, I'm probably wrong on this, but from what I've read, a therapeutic dose is 75 milligrams. So you're at double that. Double that. With a handful of other things. Correct. Did it get you on anti-anxieties too?

Yep, yep. I forgot even what that was even called. Valium, Klonopin, Xanax. I was on Klonopin, Xanax, Welbutrin. Yeah, Klonopin is one of the hardest to come off of. I've worked with clients on that. Surprisingly, it doesn't get you as high as Xanax or Valium does acutely, but it's one of the hardest to come off.

Interestingly, that class of medicine, if you cut cold turkey, can kill you. Yep. It's fucking mind-blowing. I've had long conversations with Dr. Dan Engel about that, who is a awesome friend, wrote the concussion repair manual, licensed psychiatrist and therapist who also spent 18 months in the Amazon apprenticing as an Iowa skater. So like he has fucking bridged the gap of all gaps. He's done his podcast a handful of times back in the day. Yeah. I had, I had a lot of that shit too in college when I fucking snapped and tried to kill myself. It was, you know, moderately

pain pills, but mostly it was the anti-anxiety medication. Cause I could just fucking push that button. It was like Soma in Brave New World. Good night. Fucking everything's good. Nothing hurts. Yeah. Yeah. So on the, on the effects are, and I want to say it's probably three weeks after I got out, went and did my first ketamine session and holy fuck. Like I was a dare kid, right? I was the fucking dare kid in high school that went to elementaries and junior highs. Don't do drugs. Right.

So to go in and just full throttle, like, I don't care. Like I was such an, a miserable spot and I was tired of what I call the gray or the yuck or whatever you want to call it living there. I didn't live for 22 years. I was fucking numb. I was on some kind of antidepressant. I was on some kind of anti-anxiety medication. If the back acted up, I had a fucking, you know, pharmacy in my goddamn house. So if the back acted up, boom, I can pop these. I know I need to wean off of them. And that's usually what would unravel the relationships

because then I'm doing that on top of the alcohol and everything else. So I ended up doing ketamine in probably the seventh or eighth session. Out of fucking nowhere, it's like start an apparel company. And prior to this, I've been doing real estate for almost 20 years in corporate America. And I'm like apparel, like I've always loved swag, but I'm like, why apparel? Like now at this time, I'm starting to journal. I'm starting to kind of slowly connect certain dots to set certain things. And oh, I reacted to situations like this because of X, Y, Z. And now I realize I don't have to react to those.

I can just let those be. There doesn't need to be attention to certain instances or things that have happened. And so now I'm seventh, eighth ketamine session in, and I'm really like, holy fuck. Like I'm sitting for an hour and not thinking about anything. The mind's not racing. I don't have all this weird anxiety the whole like you know you go to traditional therapy well you gotta you know you gotta feel it in your heart and you gotta you gotta feel the breath and you gotta feel the tension and i'm like

fucking what are you talking about you know what they're trying to teach they're trying to teach what eckhart tolle talks about in the new earth yeah right but eckhart tolle snapped he had a complete mental collapse that brought him to the state of stillness. Right. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about ketamine. And it's, look, you could do a thousand sessions.

Every one of them is going to be different. Different, yeah. Even if they're similar, especially when you talk about the plants. There's such a wide variety of experience within those. But it can gift you the experience of pulling back your awareness into the observer. And if you've never been in that seat before, it's like, whoa, this holy shit. Okay. Wow. Right.

Like it's just like, and it's unfamiliar too, if we've had 22 years straight or however long straight of, you know, like the mind sitting at the driver's seat and you're like, oh, there's a space beyond that. Yep. And I feel like I try to explain it now to people like that are, you know, you know, we'll just call it mental health issues. Right. I feel like people have mental health issues. You're on a frontage road and you really don't know anything outside that frontage road. Right. Cause it's, everything's repeating itself through the stories in our head. And every once in a while you get a deer or something to jump out. You had the frontage road and you're like, Oh, you get startled. And you're like, okay, I got to get back on this road. And, but it's the front road, but now you introduce ketamine or now

you introduce plant medicine. And it's like, Oh fuck, there's this off ramp. I don't have to be on this frontage road anymore. And you get on this, you know, off ramp to an informational highway. That's got thousands and thousands of lanes. And now you can look at everything in a completely different context. And that analogy for me, or even the analogy of the windshield on a, on a, on a vehicle, right? It gets really grimy on the inside of a windshield. Well, you introduce psychedelics. Yeah. It's like, I got a fucking new windshield. I can see clear as day. Now there's not this grime. And so now I've started to kind of see where things were disconnected and the neurotransmitters are starting to reconnect

and regrow within the brain. And this apparel stuff just keeps coming up and keeps coming up. And I went to, I didn't know now, but there's a plan in place obviously for it, but I went to five or six different ketamine clinics in the Phoenix Valley. Two of them ended up getting shut down. One of them-

Do you go with one as a Mexican doctor in Chandler, I want to say? No, haven't ran into them. He was the old, I had him on the podcast years ago. He was one of the very first people to do ketamine therapy in the whole country. Oh, no shit. Yeah.

Okay. I forget his name. He was awesome. He did a whole battery of really cool tests on me and they were surprisingly accurate. Okay. The one thing he said was, you test great everywhere,

except this shows, and what this thing relates to is that you, it looks like you, I don't want to, we're live on the podcast, I don't want to embarrass you. I was like, no, no, no, fucking reveal it. Yeah, let's go. It looks like you have very don't want to bury it. We're live on the podcast. I don't want to embarrass you or I was like, no, no, no fucking reveal it. Yeah. Let's go. Cause it looks like you have very little to no compassion. Yep. And I was like, Oh yeah, buddy. Yeah. Yep. Yep. And he's like,

that actually makes sense. You know, from a fighter standpoint, like you couldn't have that necessarily to be in that position really for a long time. You could have, you know, here and there, that's something that plants have helped me to cultivate more of yeah but you know that made me think of of you know that that ketamine journey you first started talking about um the old habit the frontage road of beating your own ass you know that's that's a fucking tough road to get off of. But that break, you know, the, the, the ability to scale back with the bird's eye view and see the car and see all the lanes and see all those things that offers the first inclination to have self-compassion and not kick your own ass. Yep. And I can hear it too. Cause my mom, you know, she even said back in

the day, like, what did, where'd my little boy go? Cause she knew I had compassion. I had a big heart. I wanted the best for everybody. But she even said, she's like, ever since you came back from the military, you're, you are a fucking ruthless, non-empathetic, just an asshole. I just, same thing. I was, I'm done getting hazed. I'm done getting bullied. Like I'm going to fuck people up, you know? And, and if I can prove my wherewithal in a bar fight in Billings, Montana, right. If I can hold my own there, I can do anything. So, so yeah. So I went to five, six clinics in the Valley there. There's two that we actually use now that we refer veterans, first responders and your average Joees to yeah and bridge that gap too because we're talking apparel obviously you've got dope swag on i love it and i also love

you know mine says into the storm with the bison it's one of my favorite uh native american spirit animal messages yeah bison know that the fastest way through a storm is shoulder to shoulder head first head on fucking don't run from it get shoulder to shoulder and head first, head on. Fucking don't run from it. Get shoulder to shoulder and go straight into the fucking storm. And I love that metaphor. So there's imagery and medicine in the language of the clothes that you guys are putting out. Yeah. But talk about what that's funneling towards

and what you guys are doing. Yeah, so after coming through all that and kind of saying, okay, babe, we've got to do this apparel thing, she just kind of looked at me and said, all right, knucklehead, if that's what you're going to do. Because Carrie hasn't done, she didn't do any medicine at the time. And to give you the quick overview of it, we've done ketamine, I've done psilocybin, and MDMA, and then just recently Bufo.

Ooh, buddy. Yeah, yeah. We can dive into those. but with the mental Joe stuff, um, again, I've always kind of liked swag and it just kind of started coming to me and out of nowhere, like I just started coming up with these wacky, just little designs. And it was, how do we convey to the average Joe or the guy in Kansas, right? Like, Hey, there's, there's another way to live and we don't have to live in this traditional bullshit way. And you don't have to go home and drown your sorrows

and you know, an 18 pack of Bud Light or Coors Lighter, and you don't have to drink a fucking fifth of JD to, you know, go to bed and get rid of what's in your head. Like there's other ways and it's called plant medicine, right? Or ketamine to get you started, right? So we started doing that. And the whole goal behind Mental Joe is to raise awareness with the apparel and start conversations. And that's exactly what it's doing. We probably, on an average, probably every other day have one to two people that are reaching out to us on social media. Hey, I live here. Would love to talk to you about ketamine.amine hey i'm curious in a retreat how do i do this and that was the whole goal is to use apparel to open up conversations

to talk about this shit because we don't right when we don't talk about psychedelics we don't talk about mental health so i'm literally trying to take on two of the biggest stigmatized things within our nation and say well let's flip it on its head. Yeah. Right? Well, it's fine. I mean, everyone's in their own bubble. In my world and having been a longtime listener of Joe Rogan and Tim Ferriss, a lot of different people, it's just like it's as fucking common as breath work. It's just like there. But yeah, when you're talking about Billings, Montana and Kansas and all these other places where maybe they listen to Rogan's on occasion and everyone has an access point.

But it's the deepening of that conversation that allows them to feel comfortable enough to say, is this right for me? I think it is. I'm feeling the calling. I want to do that. And then from there, connecting the dots of, okay, here's options for me. Yep. And so as we're growing this, we go to little farmer's markets or we go up to different conferences

and we're there, people are coming up and they're curious and they want to know. And one of my biggest success stories I like is we had a 72-year-old Vietnam veteran reach out to us. Dope. And he was like, bro, I heard you on the Grunt Style podcast. I'm very curious about this.

And I talked to him for over an hour. I said, if you're ready, I will introduce you to a ketamine clinic that we refer people to. And they can talk to you. They're the experts. I don't want to get in their lane, but I want to be a connector. And he went through it. He called me. And he's like, bro, he's like, I don't know how many more fucking years I have left.

But at 72, I can promise you the remaining years I have will be the most fulfilled years I ever lived in my life. And that was stamp of approval. I'm like, okay, I told my wife, I'm like, fuck it. This is what we have to do because people are curious and we have to tell these stories to continue to get more people to do that. So as we're starting to grow this, like I said, we partnered up with two ketamine clinics in Phoenix. And then there's, as you know, we partnered up with two ketamine clinics in Phoenix. And then there's, as you know, there's tons of retreats all over, whether it's Costa Rica or you got Etho churches, you know, that are all over. And our goal is, is as we become profitable, be able to write those checks for people that want to go to retreats or ketamine clinics that can't afford it. So essentially using profit for a purpose.

And everybody fucking loves apparel, but let's create a brand that our whole goal is to talk about mental health, psychedelics, and then, like I said, as we become profitable, be able to write those checks. I think it was Tom's, the shoe company Tom's. I think the last seven months they ended up donating like $100 million to psychedelic research. Dope. And so I tell the wife, I'm like, that's the goal. If I can write quarterly

checks at a million dollars to different retreats, so all they have to do is heal people. They don't have to worry about throwing a gala. They don't have to worry about throwing a fucking golf tournament to raise money. They don't have to go after investors. Let Mental Joe be that catalyst. Let us create a brand that's so big I can just write checks. And now we create a community through people wearing apparel that it's almost like you see the Buffalo shirt at a mall and you're like, I know what you're about. Yeah, we're on the same page, right? So you're creating a community with that. It's kind of cool. Marcus McGcgee's a friend of mine he fights out of the mma lab um in phoenix and in fact he's glendale right uh right off the 17th okay right off the 17th okay um and he fights this weekend we do is that where benson henderson was from yeah okay cool yeah so

benson yeah he's still a coach there um uh sugar sean he yeah he kind of fights out of ma but i know he's he's part of tim welch's group and they got their own thing both montana boys which is that's cool and pretty cool yeah um but yeah the whole thing is i walk into the lab there's four or five guys that got you know mental joe gear on i walk into my gym there's three or four you know so it's kind of cool so you can kind of see and we live in peoria arizona so you can kind of see organically, like we're really starting to grow this thing and people are really interested. And then I get people like you, and then I get people like Bobby Kennedy and, and holy shit, like we've been at this a year and a

half. Right. So I'm telling the wife, I'm like, we can actually get some capital. We can get some, like an actual team behind us. It's fucking game over. Because I look at companies like Lululemon, right? Great product, love it. They're a $9 billion company. Athleisurewear right now currently is a $330 billion industry. By 2030, it's projected

to be a $660 billion industry. Damn. So I say, give me one fucking percent of that and i'll change fucking mental health or i will be at least a spoke in the wheel to help change mental health and now you're creating like lululemon you walk in anywhere there's coffee shops whatever everyone's got some lululemon polo on or jacket or whatever tight yoga yoga pants, baby. Yeah, exactly. And that's, you know. So the whole goal is to create that community through apparel,

but being able to use that profit and turn it over for good, essentially kind of flipping capitalism on its fucking head, if you will. So that's the goal. That's where we're at. Like I said, we've been at it roughly about a year and a half. I've had my head down, and I've just been banging. And I'm a one-man band. My wife obviously helps me out a ton, but she's holding down everything. I'm Mrs. Doubtfire.

I'm taking the boys to football. I'm cleaning the house. I'm doing the laundry because this is it. This is my full-time gig. I'm in it. We do what we can. I just did a huge launch for uh in fact it launches today ryan malone foundation he's a pittsburgh penguin

uh um hockey player so we just did something with him we've got several other different collaborations that we're getting ready to to kind of push out like i said bobby kennedy they we ended up getting connected with them and we just did a bunch of rash guards for them for an upcoming trip. So for me, for a guy that didn't think I was – I think that's fucking awesome too, by the way, because I love Bobby. I've had the fucking privilege of meeting him. Always was a fan of his, his work as an environmentalist, and especially when he started diving into vaccine safety.

I was just like, yeah, man, because I had looked into that a lot as I got into health and wellness and studying Paul Cech's work and the Weston A. Price Foundation. But really, when we had Bear in the Womb, it was like, all right, push is coming to shove here. And I had a vision on ayahuasca where I asked the question, is this the route we go? Is it Western medicine?

And Aya showed me just this fucking gorgeous, the most beautiful evolution of nature in a very fast time-lapse and said, I'm your kitchen, I'm your pharmacy. And so, you know, then I wanted, and knowing we got parents and different people that would need more than that experience, started to look into it, read Dissolving Illusions by Dr. Susan Humphreys and a whole host of other things. And it became clear. And so we never did that with our kids and they're fucking amazingly healthy. And I love, you know, you listen to Bobby Kennedy on Rogan's last. I love the fact that he wasn't just talking about the COVID jab. He's talking about all of them. And that's like, yep, that's the same shit, dude. Susan Humphreys, MD, a lot of other people

that laid this out that aren't well-known, he's quoting them. Mark Gober's going to come back on the podcast. He's an excellent author, Ivy League guy, and he just wrote the end upside down medicine and just fucking details all this stuff. Gets into Dr. Thomas Cowan and many of the greats that I've learned from. So that's a huge one too. But yeah, Bobby is just fucking incredible, man. When he,

I mean, I, I, Aubrey and him are super close now. And I was the guy in Aubrey's ear saying, you've got to read, fuck, you've got to read the real Anthony Fauci. You must read it. You don't, don't skip it. I don't care if you know some of it, you have to fucking dive into this because this is where we're at. This is the world that we live in and this is what we're up against. So. Yeah. And so, so Matt, it's the the same thing there i ended up getting an invite to a kind of a private fundraiser in scottsdale so ended up got to meet bobby and before i would never understand all these connections and how everything kind of flows at the end of it we ended up talking to this gentleman and again i'm very new into this space right so i'm fucking learning like i'm the

i'm the white belt with no stripe that barely knows how to tie the fucking belt correctly in the medicine space but i get it enough to where i can talk about it and i'm learning it and i'm understanding the body and the connectivity and you know manifesting and putting intuition and all this shit out there when we run into dr engel's brother at bob's thing. Didn't know who he was at the time. Obviously fit for service the whole nine yards. And we're talking, he said, yeah, you need to come up to Sedona. I was like, yeah, that's where I proposed to my wife. Like Sedona, we love Sedona.

And so to find out that Dr. Engel's brother was there, we're talking to him. He likes what we're doing. And then finding out Dr. Engel's tied to Aubrey and you and all this other stuff. And then, you know, met Jared. And it's just, it's wild to me. Like I literally sat down and it's like, I fucking diagram shit out. I'm like, Oh, that's how this connection happened. That's how this person got introduced. I don't know what, what point it came through, but there's, there is no,

so it was really re I had, I had the experience of this multiple times, but the, the reintegration and installation of the understanding happened in 2021 so right after a lot of shit hit the fan before we were able to get into this farm and and get into regenerative agriculture and knowing that the the amount of work i was fucking saying yes to take on and the requirement of that knowledge yeah like holy shit dude i need i need 30 years of knowledge in four different things i don't have fucking i don't have a month's experience at it yeah and um just did a quarterly journey every quarter that year and the same thing kept coming back there's no such thing as six degrees of separation yeah only one yeah and it's and i'm seeing it now that i've paused now i can step back and look at this shit and go oh that's why this stuff starting unfold like i said we've been at this it'll be two years this coming up april that we've

been doing mental joe so in this amount of time that we've been doing this i'm just fucking blasphemy right like i remember back in billings montana watching you watching you come on for a way in and all of us buddies fucking just joking and laughing. They're like, McLean, this is your guy. The one where I put legalized gay shorts on? Well, yeah, you've got your shorts on. You've got the fanny pack. And I always got a fanny pack on.

The wife bust my balls for wearing a fanny pack. And I still remember like, McLean, this is your guy. I was like, yeah, he's my guy. Guy's wearing fucking Speedos and a fanny pack to a weigh-in. Fuck yeah. If I could just say, you know, the fanny pack looks dope i love the gi joe status but you got to have it big enough for a concealing carry you know like this texans we need we need so so so funny so i went to dinner last night with nick from sheep sheep sheep yeah all those guys yeah so just just had uh dinner with him and he ended up the the gray one that

you normally wear i think uh-huh yeah that's the one i got so i got cool yeah theirs is awesome they got the big pull strings this is my buddies i mean we're we have to explain this since it's just the audio only yeah but my homie matt vincent he used to have hate brand it's now not dead yet he made an edc bag my only complaint are the zippers, but everything else, just the zipper handles, actually. The zippers are phenomenal. It's the best fucking, it's a white leather, so I got to fucking wipe it clean and it pops, but I mean, you can't tell anything about it.

It's not fucking huge. No. It still fits everything. I got room for the fucking snooze, the credit cards, the cell phone's got its own pocket, extra magazine. It's snacks. It's there. It's loaded, yeah.

It's loaded and doesn't look like it. Yeah. But yeah, so it's, like I said, just to be sitting here and talking with you and even guys like Cal that are opening up the door for us to hear our story and where we're trying to go with this, it's almost like pinch me. Again, three and a half years ago, I wanted to put a bullet in my brain because I didn't think I was worth anything. I didn't think I brought anything to the fucking table. I was tired of the stories in the head, you know, and now that I'm on this other side,

I get it. I'm starting to see all the connections. I'm starting to understand like, this is the way if we're going to heal America or even the world, psychedelics needs to be talked about and we need to fucking kick that door open. Now we got legislation, we got all this bullshit the way, if we're going to heal America or even the world, psychedelics needs to be talked about. We need to fucking kick that door open. Now we got legislation, we got all this bullshit that's in front of us, but I think, I mean, you see it, right? I just feel like there's a change in tides. People are tired of the bullshit. And so we're starting to start tromping on that. And you know, you got Bobby, that's kind of knocking down that door and you've got others that are doing the same thing because everyone's just we're tired i think a lot of us are tired of living in the yuck and the processed foods and carrie and i keep talking about maybe a year or two all right we're gonna pivot and maybe we get out of arizona and we go someplace where there's

some land and the boys can run we have our own chicken coop in the whole nine yards and i tell her i'm like i'm fucking scared like it's a lot to learn but we'll get through it you know I grew up like I said grew up Montana my grandfather had a huge garden and you know I gardened with him so it's it's not far it's removed it's there I can still get back to it but it's because of my past 22 years or whatnot of just living in that gray and not feeling like I could learn anything I was scared of failure because failure to me equals some sort of punishment. So now it's, no, failure is a learning opportunity. And hey, Chad, you're not going to be fucking good

at anything you pick up for the first time. Yeah, that's the beautiful thing about jujitsu, right? Yeah. Jujitsu is like, it's funny, you meet certain people who are like, yeah, you know, I did it for a while and then gave up or such and such happened and I don't do it anymore. And you're like, the person who stays is a lot different than that. But the main thing is, you know, I did it for a while and then gave up or such and such happened and I don't do it anymore.

The person who stays is a lot different than that. But the main thing is, I don't fucking constantly when I'm coaching people and fit for service or anything, it's like come with the beginner's mind. Bring the beginner's mind. And with the beginner's mind, you're agreeing, you're going to fucking suck at this new thing for a while.

And it's okay. And it doesn't matter if you're good at fucking anything else. You're still, with exception, maybe wrestling, you're still going to suck at this and you're going to suck for a while. And then you're going to suck less. And even when you're good,

you're still going to tap. Even when you're good, you're still going to get beeped. Fucking black belt since 2016. I've still got fucking purple belts that put me in a submission. If I don't tap, I'm going to get hurt for fucking six months.

So I better tap. That's a beautiful, beautiful part to that. but yeah. Bringing the beginner's mind is fucking super important. And, uh, dude, I love your story. I'm super pumped to have you here. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, man. I'm going to, I'm going to get, I'm going to soften your, uh, your, your fear around farming here. I'm going to give you a little tour of the land. Yeah. 120 chickens, 18 ducks, four geese, a couple of donkeys, a couple of emus, a bunch of red deer, black buck, got it all. Cows, sheep, white tail. And see, we just took the boys. We were, I'm actually doing a men's retreat where we're doing equine therapy and I teach TRE if you're familiar with that. So a TRE provider. And I teach that once a week in the

Phoenix Valley. So more and more retreats are starting to reach out because they're realizing that TRE is, you know, for those that are hearing it's tension trauma release exercises. And it was founded, if you want to call it that, by a gentleman in the name of Dr. David Burselli. And Burselli actually lives in the Phoenix Valley. So him and I will talk every now and then and whatnot. But the TRE was kind of the catalyst into, you know, me really kind of saying, okay, there's another way to live minus the ketamine. TRE is great too from, I mean, there's a number of things, right? Everybody here that's here hearing us beat the bandwagon on psychedelics. There are more than one path, right? Meditation is a path. Yoga is a path, all these different

things, but they're not exclusive, right? And and i mean plant medicines led me to meditate and do yoga in fact i kept getting that fucking message over and over again from ayahuasca and i was like all right you told me this last time all right you told me this last time and i was like oh i haven't done any i gotta do it okay i heard and then i stopped for like two years and just practiced that and then came back to it when i was ready but um, you know, TRE is phenomenal before any medicine journey because it's moving so much of the stored trauma in the body. It's allowing that to escape and it makes the journeys much smoother. It's also great in the in-between. And then there'll be a certain point where, you know, I've had a few friends that were kind of deep in the game

with me for a while. And, you know, like we're, there's just not, there's less of a calling. It doesn't mean I'll never do it again, but there, you know, I did ayahuasca once last year with Aub and Aaron Rogers and a bunch of fucking awesome people. And, and it was amazing, but there was a point where I always, if I had something big going on in my life, I'd have to bring that to the medicine. I have to bring that to ceremony. I need these answers and I'm going to bring a lot to it. I'm going to write it down. It'll be my life, I'd have to bring that to the medicine. I have to bring that to ceremony. I need these answers and I'm gonna bring a lot to it. I'm gonna write it down. It'll be my intention and I'll iron it out.

And I would iron it out and get all the answers I needed and then some. And then there was a point where I realized that connection's always there. That doorway's always there. And it doesn't mean that I don't fucking still love and respect the fuck out of the journey. But I don't have questions to bring to medicine anymore

because I can meditate on those and contemplate them and get it on a fucking walk in nature where I'm like, aha, that's the answer. What do you think got you over that? Because that's where I'm struggling. Like the whole setting down and meditating, I'm getting better at the whole journaling aspect of it, but the fucking meditation,

like I still struggle with that quite a bit. It helps. There's a couple couple things that really help me one let's see one is to move if i need to move okay right so if i if i don't lift weights once or twice a week or do something a high physical exertion that could be boxing kickboxing uh jujitsu if i'm not doing that at least once or twice a week, I get antsy and I can't sit. And, uh, and I get grumpy, you know? So like even Tasha would be like, you need to fucking work out. You know? And I'm like, yep, you're right. Sorry. Hit the gym. Yeah. And so, so I don't try to overcome that with meditation. I honor that for meditation and which is the practice of physical yoga was designed to be able to get you to sit still. That's what physical yoga was all about. So honoring that, I do now train way more often.

I don't do a ton of shit like I used to, but I'll lift weights at least once a week. I'll run once a week. I'll hit kickboxing and boxing once a week. I'll do jujitsu once a week or twice. And the layering of that allows me to effectively move energy and dump because I need that outlet. And then I can sit still. And typically I find that meditating in the, in the afternoon is my best time. You know, and the teacher that I had, Emily Fletcher's phenomenal. Um, you can learn through her at Ziva meditation.com. I don't have an affiliate link or anything, but she's incredible. And they have like a series of videos that you watch that will bridge the gap on why you're doing it.

And just listening to the podcast, because the first podcast we did, I really tried to extract that for people. You're not trying to quiet the mind. Like she dispels a ton of fucking misinformation. And that's where it's at. Like I'm sitting there going, why can't my mind shut off?

What the fuck? She goes, it's like trying to drop your heart rate to zero. Yeah, okay. Your heart's designed to beat, period. Your mind is designed to think. You're not going to, when's your heart rate going to be zero? When you're dead. When's your mind going to go to zero?

When you're dead, right? She uses that exact analogy. So it offers a way to look at meditation differently that I think makes you more effective at it. Okay. And then you let go of grading yourself. That's another piece, right? There's no great job.

So like if you're meditating for 20 minutes and 18 of it, you're thinking the whole about life and doing all this shit and you only come to stillness in the last two, that's not a failure. That's a victory. It's an absolute victory.

That makes sense, yeah. And the brain, the neuroplasticity of it is like a muscle. The more you train that mechanism, there's a great book on on audible on the great courses. I forget the name of it's on the science of mindfulness or the science of meditation. And it's mind blowing because it's connecting, you know, Western science with the benefits of these things and showing how the brain literally changes physical and, and, you know, it's the hardware and

the software that gets changed. It's really practice of that. But I think, you know, if you just, it's really about dedicating the time to do it, but I would, I would look into her online classes. She's exceptional. I got to do face-to-face with her and, you know, that changed the scope of how I meditate. Before I had a lot of trouble, I tried different things. One other tool that I like is there's a small book by Dr. Wayne Dyer called Getting Into the Gap. And it includes chanting. And chanting is phenomenal because chanting actually tones the vagus nerve.

So when we think about, you know, reverse engineering, talking with Andrew Huberman about this breath, you can reverse engineer your mental state, right? You can double the exhale. So you got eight seconds or four seconds in, eight seconds out. These different types of breath work will shift you from sympathetic to parasympathetic. So you get to go from fight or flight to rest and digest. And honing will do the same thing. And Jamie Wills, one of my good homies, and he's always talking about how, like, we're basically a worm. We've got this tube with a mouth and a butthole. And that whole thing from entrance to exit

is right where this beautiful nerve system goes. And he goes both ways in. You go in through the ass or you go in through the mouth. That's going to tone that nerve. Yeah. But chanting without doing butt stuff is an excellent quick way to do that. And the thing in Wayne Dyer's book, Getting in the Gap, is you're just using the ah sound. And he goes, it's in all names for God, God, Yahweh, Allah. And he just goes down

the list. But anytime you think, you take a deep breath in and then go, ah, full length. If you need to do a second one, do it. If you need to do a third one, do it. And then when you have erased the thought from the chant and you go back to your breath, you're not focused on the breath. You just stop. And it's, it's getting yourself into that gap of no, of no mind that you keep doing when you notice the mind. Ah, and, and what's beautiful is there's a there's a an acoustic cue for you to silence the mind it gives you something to do like a concentration or a focus point like staring at a candle um but it's also toning it's also doing this thing that shifts the nervous system in a way like tre does okay because we're physical beings

yep right and so i think that's an excellent hack and that's something i'll still do on occasion thing that shifts the nervous system in a way like TRE does because we're physical beings. And so I think that's an excellent hack. And that's something I'll still do on occasion, usually at the beginning. And so Emily's got the three Ms, mindfulness, meditation, and manifestation. In the first couple of minutes of every 22-minute session, she has you start with less. But the first two minutes for me are mindfulness. Where am I sore? How does my body feel in this position? I can move in. Let me breathe into this a little bit, right? Let me, I'm allowed to focus on my breath. I'm allowed to stretch a little bit and move and just settle back in. And I can chant then if I need to, if I'm feeling like choppy breath, I can take a deep breath and do the ah chant or the om chant and then that resets the nervous system now i can

meditate for the bulk for 18 and then the last two minutes from the meditative state i enter into dispensa's work with manifestation okay where i i see it feel it touch it believe it as if already as if it is already so and i've done that with a lot of shit like you read becoming supernatural that i got to get a list of this. Like you read Becoming Supernatural. I got to get a list of these fucking books. He's awesome. He's awesome. But I think Emily is,

she's not the missing link because he does a lot of meditation technique as well, but like her meditation matched with that is next level. Okay. So, yeah. I'll link to all this shit in the show notes for people listening, Ziva Meditation and the books. And Dispenza, I've had a lot of clients that go to his workshops, and they're completely fucking changed.

Yeah, I got a buddy right now, former SEAL Tommy Aceto. You'd fucking love this guy. He's a wild fucking character. I mean, he's in the medicine space real deep, but he's doing some stuff with Dispenza right now. I think he's actually creating a whole protocol off of Dispenza's stuff to work with veterans and first responders. So him and Dispenza are kind of working on that too. So I think that's fucking pretty wild.

Yeah, I'd love to. I mean, Joe's doing great shit. And he also realizes he's got to get as many people as possible with the skill set to do this on their own yep before he's gone you know it's like he's he's full throttle and uh that's that's i admire the fuck out of him for that that's kind of how i feel about tre it's like that's why i tell people like if i go teach it at a retreat or something like that like hey just make sure i got a hot and a cot and i'll fucking come teach you because like this is something we all should have in our fucking toolbox yeah right because

the meditation right for me that I couldn't slow the mind. It was that negative connotation. I can't slow the mind. I'm itchy. Okay, I can't do meditation. Screw it. So that's why TRE spoke to me so much. Because it's like, okay, I can release this.

And my mind can still go. But if I can control the breath and allow the body to shake and get rid of what it needs to, we can move forward at a different rate. Yeah, and those are layers as you're working through layers of trauma that's stored in the body. But at the same time, all these are stackable. When we talk about having the medicine bag,

there's a time and a place for holotropic breath work. There's a time and a place for chanting. There's a time and a place for TRE. There's a time and a place for all of these things. And they can be layered in different ways. And it's really, it's similar to diet. There's no one right diet. There's the right diet for you and there's the right diet for me. And that will change over time. It really changes over time for women every 28 days, but also through pregnancy, through the different stages, pre-motherhood, motherhood, and then post-menopausal, that can change dramatically for them.

But it also does for men. And it's listening to that that allows us to always be in right relation with our body. So for you, it may be TRE is the fucking best thing on earth for five fucking years. And then, yeah, the shit, something leaves and all of a sudden you can sit still. That may be it.

I don't know. But playing with these different modalities and seeing what works, and Ziva may not for you. I've got a client that just didn't vibe. He met Emily, loves her. He's looking for something else. Everyone that I've switched on to Ziva other than him

has just been 10 out of 10, this changed my fucking life. So the odds are that it is gonna pan out. But there are many, but, um, there are, you know, many, many, many ways up the mountain. So just as long as you stay dialed into listening to what the needs are and then seeking those out, you will find it's guaranteed. It is written. Yeah. And that's, yeah. And that's what I found out, right. Instead of fighting against everything, like again, going with the flow, like understanding, okay, I'm on the other side of this mountain. I can still hear the negative bullshit, right? It's on the other

side of the mountain that is still there. But now with plant medicine, I have the ability to tune in to say, slow the fuck down. It's there. That's not who you are. Stop diverting back to that bullshit and let's keep moving forward. You know, like Carrie and I, we did an MDMA session up in Sedona and that connectivity of me and her, like for the first time, like for her to like sit there and just look at me and say, I get you, I see you now. Like, holy fuck. And that's when I knew like, okay, this stuff is so profound that we need to talk about this and we need to elevate all this shit to a higher level. I mean, MDMA, right. It's hopefully going to be legal this year for therapeutics. So that's,

you know, with maps and now that, what is it? Lucas, Lucas Locos group or something maps ended up changing their name and got a hundred million dollars from this group. So maps now is part of, I think it's Lucas or Locos or something like that. Hopefully not Lucas oil. No, no, no, no, definitely not that it's, it's spelled, it's spelled weird. I can't remember how it's even spelled. Where can people get ahold of some apparel? Where can people find you online to stay in touch with you and, and, uh,

and you know, pick your brain. Yeah. Best, best practices. Yeah. So we're Facebook, uh, Instagram, big Instagram in that arena, but it's at mental Joe apparel. And then we're launching a new website in the next two weeks. So if you go on the website currently, it's, it's kind of, kind of hokey to my opinion. Um, but it's just mental joe.com. Cool. Very simple. Um, we're slowly getting onto tick tock and all these other things, but I just, just I hate social media but I also know it's a it's a thing that we need to kind of drive our business and stuff but yeah I'm not

a fan of it so we're slowly getting into all these other platforms but I'd say we have our biggest following if you will you know organically growing that bitch in a year and a half but that's where I do most of the stuff Carrie takes care of Facebook and a lot of that other stuff and even Instagram but yeah mental mental joe apparels really easy awesome

brother well fuck chad has been excellent having you here and i can't wait to show you around kyle i appreciate you brother thank you so much all right Thank you.