Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #339 Marc Gafni on the Twelve Face of Eros Part I(Intro)

Episode Date: January 24, 2024

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone… Marc Gafni is here to literally teach a course. This is an intro the his Twelve Faces of Eros as outlined in "The Erotic and the Holy" This will be a 14 episode season in the future and we’ll be keeping y’all up to date on the previous episodes in the shownotes. Marc knows the science behind all of our “woo” claims inside and out so there are receipts included.  It is such an honor to have this series’ home be with the Kyle Kingsbury Podcast. I hope this helps us all see a common horizon and work towards the more beautiful world we all know is possible. Love y’all Connect with Marc: Website: MarcGafni.com  Instagram: @marcgafni Facebook: Dr Marc Gafni X: @marcgafni Substack: Marc Gafni YouTube: Dr Marc Gafni Medium: Office For The Future         Show Notes: Kyle Kingsbury Podcast #276 - Marc Gafni Apple Spotify  A Return To Eros(book) A Return to Eros(paperback) A Return to Eros(audiobook) The Erotic and the Holy - Workshop   Sponsors: The Wellness Company Grab your medical emergency kit from TWC.health/kingsbury for all the must-have medications you may need in case everything goes belly up. Bioptimizers To get the ’Magnesium Breakthrough‘ deal exclusively for fans of the podcast, click the link below and use code word “KINGSBU10” for an additional 10% off. magbreakthrough.com/kingsbu  Caldera Lab is the best in men’s skincare. Head over to calderalab.com/KKP to get any/all of their regimen. Use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Twitter: @KINGSBU  Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

All right, y'all, we have one hell of a podcast. And as I had talked to y'all in the solo cast about bucket list guests and exploring different styles of episodes, I am going to be doing some longer form episodes, in particular with Dr. Jack Cruz, who if you listen to him with Andrew Huberman and Rick Rubin, he can go. There's no question. He can go, go, go. Mark Gaffney is today's guest,

the return of Mark Gaffney, and he can go as well. But because we wanted to be concise and we wanted to lay this out as a lecture series, an educational series, really, we're going to be dropping 12 episodes on the different faces and aspects of Eros. If you missed the first podcast I did with him, I'll have it linked in the show notes. You definitely want to listen to that. All this sparked from Aubrey turning me on to his work.

And so I listened to the erotic and the holy on Audible. That's a beautiful lecture. A lot of which is surrounding the nature of our conversations coming up and today. And the framework of this is phenomenal. I'm going to, you know, he frames it perfectly in the first 20 minutes of this podcast, so I'm not going to try to reframe it. Many of you realize what we're up against. We haven't, you know, stuck our head in the sands and looked away. And there's a lot. There's a lot to deal with there. And the starting place for that is a fundamental understanding of how the cosmos from the explicate all the way to the implicate

works. What are the building blocks? What are the first principles? And how do we come into alignment with the divine? And I think this is absolutely important, and I'm so excited. We were going to do 12, and then we both realized in Mark's book, A Return to Eros, he did with Christina Kincaid, his partner, life partner, the first third of that book,

there's like 40% of the book before we even get to the first face of Eros. So we intuited that on the fly right before this podcast and realized we're gonna need to drop an episode really framing that. And then at the end of it, after an hour, we realized we need a second episode to truly frame this and put it into perspective.

Down the road, these are all gonna live as a season. So you'll be able to go look through on iTunes and Spotify. You can click on latest, it'll go to latest. You can click on the season. You can go to Gaffney's season on Eros. And all those episodes will be there. Of course, every time we do one of these, I will link to every single episode we've done prior.

That way, if it's your first time listening to Mark, you can backtrack and get caught up. Each of these is meant to stand on their own. So that's another good thing. The lecture, and believe me, it is. I have one podcast where I spoke as little as this one. And it was the second time I did it with Dr. Ted Achikoso.

And it was phenomenal. I mean, I was front row seat, sitting in the front row at a classroom and trying to take down as many notes and digest as much of what Mark was teaching as possible. And I absolutely love that. I love Mark madly. He is such a fucking great person.

I'm honored to have him on the spirit council as a mentor. And you'll get to hear, you know, his lineage who he works with but what they're doing is uh is the great work of our time and it is necessary so frame it will be framed it's going to be phenomenal we're going to try to keep these to an hour on the button for each one of them but trust this is a long series we're gonna have 14 episodes just on the nature of this he has another another book coming out that we're going to break down. I can't announce it yet, but in April, that book will launch. We'll do its own episode on that. And then we'll keep returning. So once a month, these episodes are going to release. And if you want to peek ahead, listen to The Erotic and the Holy, or buy a copy of A Return to Eros, as I just

mentioned. And we're going to unpack what all this means, why it's important, and really how to work in alignment. And I think this is phenomenal because Mark has other great terms, which are incredibly important. One, you go from rolemate to soulmate to wholemate, and he'll unpack that in a different episode, but wholemates stand shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm, and they view the same horizon. And there's never been a more important time with how divided the world is now.

And it goes through cycles of time where it's been this divided, maybe even more divided. But knowing everything that's on the line, we are in a unique point in history where the potentials are fucking real. The potential for humanity's collapse is real. And even greater than that, the potential for us to lose our humanity in addressing the metacrisis, that's the thing that I'm afraid of because there are things that are worse than death. And as we look through human history,

we don't have to look back too far to see that. So we'll be framing this in that way because the answers are important and it is our way to view the same, the shared horizon together. So that's it for the intro. I don't want to spend too much time there. Support this podcast, share it with friends, share it wide. A lot of you've been asking for more podcasts on spiritual and psychological and emotional. This covers all that shit. It's a framework.

And backed by science, the internal and the external. Trust me, he does not get into the woo without making claims that are substantiated in science, which I absolutely love about Mark. So share this far and wide, support our sponsors. They make this show possible. I'm going to run through these real quick just to get us into Mark. This podcast is brought to you by twc.health slash Kingsbury. Head over there to grab your spike support. That's twc.health slash Kingsbury and use code Kingsbury in all caps to save 15% on your spike support. That's TWC.health slash Kingsbury and use code KINGSBURY in all caps to save 15% on your first order. Kits are only available in the USA. You guys have heard me talk about the wellness company

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Jump into skin and first impression royalty with Caldera Lab. And without further ado, my brother and mentor, Mark Gaffney. Welcome to the podcast, Mark. Welcome back. Kyle, thank you. It is a, first of all, a great pleasure to see you. Just, I'm filled with joy in seeing you. It has been too long, brother. And i'm so excited about what we're about to do here yes i'm so excited too and you know you read my mind we're going to deep dive the 12 faces of eros and i was reading through a return to eros and i realized you start with the first face about a third into the book so it's like we got maybe like% of this that we didn't talk about covering. It might be a good idea to start there

and then dive into the 12 Faces of Eros. So right when you had that, I was like, oh, all right, we're good. He's already thought of it. We're good. Now, do you think, and I know this is a very, very serious and of course joyful podcast,

but do you think before we get going, I should share with everyone that I'm your personal trainer? No, we shouldn't. Yeah, it's good to have that background. That's all I've got in my body. Let me get a credit where credit is due. What I'm a little confused by is why no one's confused between you and me. I've never walked down the street and someone says, oh, there's a... Kyle kind of makes the rest of us kind of feel like we have to aspire right but i'm just i'm always i'm so moved by both the temple of your heart and the rigor of your embodiment you know which both are are expressions of eros right your heart your mind

your embodiment and just i'm madly delighted to see you brother okay i'm madly delighted to see you too brother thank you so much for the kind words. Yeah. There we go. Okay. So we are at this moment of metacrisis. It's a moment of breaking. And that's a very hard thing to say because when you really hear that, if they follow their natural course, to one of two results. One is the actual death of humanity, and actually an extinction, right, because of multiple vectors of existential risk, meaning a risk to our very existence. But two, they could also lead to the death of our humanity and not the death of humanity, but the death of our humanity, meaning the solution to the challenges of the metacrisis of existential risk will be to move from open to closed societies. human free will, undermine human dignity, undermine personhood, undermine sexuality,

undermine creativity, undermine choice, undermine intimacy, and all of the demarcating characteristics of what it actually means to be a human being. So in that kind of moment, we have to ask ourselves, how do we respond? And we're just kind of framing the conversation on Eros. So there's three kinds of responses we can give to the metacrisis. And one response, and let me just maybe go back for a second, to be responding is to be ahead of 99% of humanity at this moment, because 99% of humanity plus is looking away.

Right? So now there's to be in the response camp is like, okay, let's take this seriously. And let's take it seriously because we're talking about all future generations, right? In other words, if in fact we experienced the death of humanity, that means there's trillions of unborn children. There's trillions of unborn love stories. Right? There's exponential, unimaginable void of seething life and goodness and value and creativity that never comes to pass. And we are the only voice of the future. That's kind of a shocking realization.

The future doesn't have a vote. The only vote the future has is us. That's it. So we are both the future depends on us, the existence of the present. Do the billions and billions of people, you know, nearing eight, you know, it's going to go to nine, 10 billion people who could suffer existential risk. The present depends on us and the success of all of the past depends on us.

And the past has handed us the baton. So in this covenant between generations, the past looks to us. So we're in this unique generation that's unprecedented in human history, in which exponential technology has generated fragile systems that can collapse upon themselves, and there's no cohering structure that actually allows for the kind of coherence that will allow us to respond to the meta-crisis. So the fundamental awareness of that in the world has changed in the last year. We're making this set of conversations, we're recording them in 2024.

But a year ago, existential risk was almost unknown. Last year, through the conversations around artificial intelligence, actually the words existential risk for the first time made it into the front pages of mainstream legacy newspapers, right, and media channels around the world, and then disappeared. I mean, if you actually notice the vector, they kind of appeared. There were like three months of intense conversation around issues that we've been looking at at the think tank at the Center for World Philosophy and Religion for many years, of which actually our dear mutual friend Aubrey Marcus is the board chair, and Aubrey's doing a brilliant

job. So existential risk jumps into the forefront and disappears. So the response of most of the world is to ignore it. Not because the world's bad. Not because people are like bad folks. People are beautiful. But because no one knows what to do. Right?

And since when you feel impotent and you feel this intense futility, either you break down in depression, right, because the ideology of depression is futility, right, or you look away. And you just, you point towards, let me deal with today, tomorrow, take care of the kids, you know, my loved ones. And I don't, it's too big to hold. I can't wrap around it. Okay. So that's the context of this conversation. It's a context of breakdown. The only response to breakdown is breakthrough.

The only response to emergency is emergence. Something new has to be born. Now, there's an argument among those 1%. Okay, where should the newness be born? So some people say infrastructure. Let's build new infrastructures. Let's figure out how to create new technologies that can discern bioweapons in the wastewater. New infrastructure.

Other people say let's create new social structure. Let's make sure that there's at least a couple people in the government who can figure out what, you know, the black boxes of chat GPT-4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 are doing, right? So we can actually regulate technology because we have no idea what technology is. So let's create new laws governing the regulation, for example, of the technologies that bind us, you know, and that would be social structure and new set of laws. And all of those have some validity, but we all understand that those aren't going to change the game. The only thing that's going to change the game is actually what we might call not new infrastructure or social structure, but new superstructure. And by superstructure, we mean,

and I'm borrowing those terms from Manfred Harris, by superstructure, we mean the way I'm going to use the term a new story. And a new story, right? A new story of value, right? The only thing that actually changes reality at its core is a new story of value from which we generate everything. Because actually, there's a hidden story in my head. And that story has plot lines. And the plot lines of that story and the values of that story and the goals of that story and the dreams of that story and the aspirations of that story, they define my life, even if I haven't articulated them. So if I change, if I evolve the source code, and the source code is the story itself, I evolve the source code of culture and consciousness,

that can respond to the meta-crisis. We actually realize we've crossed planetary boundaries. We're about to cause either the death of humanity or the death of our humanity. How do we respond to that? We have to birth a new humanity. And if we birth a new humanity, then all of the rules change. It's a very, very deep idea. And I want to just kind of be clear because at the center of this new story is going to be Eros.

But before we get there, I want to kind of really just ground up. We're not making shit up. This is actually the structure of reality. The way reality works, there was a dude named Turing. There was a great movie about it, Turing. What was it called? Imitation Games, I think. Yeah, it was awesome.

Right. He was an incredible man. Incredible, incredible. One of my, you know, personal, you know, all-time heroes. Incredible man. And he's the code cracker. He cracks the Nazi codes during World War II. He then goes to Bell Labs and he writes 47, 48, only a couple of years before his death. He writes an essay called Morphogenesis. So let's bracket the kind of intensity of the sciences in the essay Morphogenesis. He's asking, among other things, a question. He's asking, how do madly complex systems in any sense cohere? Why is there coherence between these quadrillion, zillion, zillions of parts, right? You know, the world's a massive hyper-object, to borrow a new word,

which all these, you know, virtually infinitesimal parts, and yet there's some sense of coherence. How does that happen? So again, to kind of break down what he says to kind of the simplest sentence, but not a second simplicity that kind of captures his intention, what he says is the way it coheres is through simple first rules. And as they're simple first rules that if you iterate them again and again and again, they form the fabric of the system. So he's describing the exterior world. Let's apply

that same principle to interiors, the inside world, the world of culture and consciousness. What generates the world of culture and consciousness. What generates the world of culture and consciousness? A set of first principles and first values, iterated again and again and again and again and again, actually generate the coherent structure of humanity. Now it starts to get wildly exciting. All of a sudden, we're beginning to feel hope. We started the first, you know, seven, eight, nine minutes in a kind of sense of devastation, almost a kind of, you know, doomer sense. And you can actually feel the birth of hope. No, no, no, there actually, there's a way.

There's actually a way through, which is if I actually realize that reality is generated by simple first rules in exteriors and interiors, first principles and first values, well, if I actually articulate those first principles and first values, if I actually know what they are, and those first principles and first values come together and they form a story of value. So if I can actually identify that story of value, know what values drive it,

and actually evolve those values, right? Get the most evolved version of all those values. So let's say my value is love. I want the most evolved version of love, highest version of love I can have. Let's say my value is freedom, the most evolved value of freedom, creativity, the most evolved value, you know, version of, you know, you know, creativity, uniqueness, the most evolved version of uniqueness. In other words, there's these first principles and first values. Those first principles and first values are the plot lines of cosmos. Those plot lines, if I identify them, I begin to align with them. I then evolve them to their highest expressions. I refine them just like you evolve scientific principles.

You've got 15th century medicine. you've got 20th century medicine, they're both medicine, but you've evolved the principles, you've refined them, you've tested them, you've sharpened them, but you're still in medicine. So when I evolve the first principles and first values that form the plot lines of our story of value, when I evolve the story, all of a sudden I birth a new human and new humanity, right? So that's shockingly beautiful. That's shockingly beautiful. Let me just give like a simple example of it, and then we have our context to dive in. So let's say we're in the Renaissance, and Black Plague is sweeping Europe, and you've got this crazy pandemic moving through Europe, and you're living in Florence, and the old world order is breaking down and the medieval world and the old religions are being

challenged by new scientific evidence and we're not sure what kind of politics to have. And then this group of people in Florence, you know, they ignore all the other stuff going on in Florence and they say, okay, there's nine other families in Florence. They say, whatever these guys are doing, they're just lost, right? There's this one family, the Medici's, that gets together with a bunch of artists, creatives, right? You know, and they want to be fit for service, right? They want to be, you know, they want to have capacity. And so at the Center's Leonardo da Vincio, Marcello Fasinio, at the Florentine Neoplatonic Academy, and they get together and they tell a new story of value. And that new story of value is a new set of the most evolved first principles and first

values that generate a new reality. They generate the new scientific method. They generate universal human rights. They generate feminism in its best forms. They generate democracy. They generate feminism in its best forms. They generate democracy. They generate contemporary medicine in its best forms. They generate, you know, all of the dignities of modernity are generated not by one invention, but by an up-leveling of the story that we tell from within which we generate and create reality. That's actually what modernity was there was there weren't my brother more than a thousand people involved in the renaissance that's tillich's point paul tillich's point no more than a thousand people you think it was like hundreds of about a thousand people but that's kind of incredible who came together each with their own specific expertise and what i would call a unique self symphony which they came together and generated a new musical score for

cosmos a new story of value a new possibility so that's what we're here to do that's what we're here to do what I mean that's like it's shockingly serious and incredible joy there's a trembling before reality. There's a sense of urgency. There's a sense of awe, both in the sense of fear and joy. Those are both real. And a sense of possibility. A possibility. If someone would ask me, what is the force, the God force of evolution, if you will, I would say the God force of evolution, if you will, I would say the God force of evolution is the possibility of possibility. It's possible, right? I mean, something new is waiting to be born. And when people say, oh,

the story never changes, can't change, this is fanciful. Kyle and Mark, what are they? They're kind of lost in some, you know, that's complete unrealistic what they're saying. That claim is unrealistic because the nature of reality is that it always changes, right? It never doesn't change. The story does evolve. And the question is, where is it going to evolve? So what we want to do is we want to actually say, oh my goddess, my God, Eureka, there's a metacrisis. We're not going to look away. Robert K. Lifton wrote an important book called Facing Apocalypse. We have to look towards.

Sometimes we come closer. Sometimes we step back, but we never look away. We're actually face to face with reality. And we look into reality and we say, we're going to tell a new story of value rooted in evolving first principles and first values. That story has the power. not only avoid dystopia, but also usher in a potential utopia, but a grounded utopia, right? A potential world of beauty, of goodness and truth that's unimaginable, right? In its dimensions. So we literally stand, you know, poised between utopia and dystopia. And that which can take us through is this new story of Eros. So that's this new story that we're about

to tell. So that's part one story that we're about to tell. So that's part one. That's our framework. It's really the framework for our entire conversation, right? That's our framework. And okay. So let's take the next step. So what is the nature of this new story? So first, with your permission, brother, I'm going to give this new story a name. I want to call it just like we have, like, right, let's go. Let's go, right? Just like we have, you know, romanticism, you know, in the 18th, 19th century, you have, you know, 20th century existentialism. These are movements that change the mood of history, right? So we need to actually change the mood of history and change the vector change the direction

right of human unfolding change evolve the source code of culture and consciousness we're going to do it through a new story of value let's call that new story cosmoerotic humanism cosmoerotic humanism this is the new story of value that integrates. It's not a made-up story. We're not declaring it. It's not a dogmatic claim. This new story of value, cosmorotic humanism, is rooted in the deepest currents of the sciences. All of the exterior sciences and all of the interior sciences merge together in a larger whole. All of the pre-modern interior and exterior sciences,

all of the modern vectors of interior and exterior science, all of the post-modern, we don't reject post-modernity. Post-modernity had some important things to say. My colleague Jordan Peterson makes a mistake here. He kind of demonizes post-modernity. No, post-modernity has important truths. Generally, an entire group of people don't get it entirely wrong. They've got there's something they're saying that's right. Right. You know, the woke culture has made tragic mistakes, but there's a spark of the sacred.

You have to always deliberate what's the spark of the sacred. So this new story of value. There's a place for everyone at the table, right? It's the highest integration that I know that is possible of the deepest truths, validated truths, empirically validated truths of the empirical sciences, pre-modern, modern, and post-modern, woven together in a new emergent, right? Emergency generates emergence. A new emergent, right? The new story of reality. That's exciting. That's exciting. That's exciting. And I just want to say, this is not a story told by Mark Goffney. That's really, really important, right? This is,'m I'm I'm a teller of the story. I'm I'm I'm I'm a writer of the story and I'm working with many colleagues, students, friends who've gathered together at the Center for World Philosophy and Religion.

Much like Marcello Fasino had had the. Florentine Platonic Academy, which the Medici's kind of created in Florence. So you've got to gather people. It can't be one guy makes a claim and, you know, he's writing a bunch of books and they're part of, you know, his win-lose metric success story. And, you know, we can't be playing that game. We've got to play a game that's, you know, way beyond that in order to change the vector of history. So lots of the story that I'm telling has been written. We've written in a bunch of books. Return to Eros is a very, very important one, which I wrote with my beloved writing partner and life partner, Christina Kincaid, Dr. Christina Kincaid. That's one very, very important book. And then there's a whole other

set of books, which we call The Great Library, which know, very, very important book. And then there's a whole other set of books, which we call the Great Library, which are unpacking dimensions of the story. And the Great Library, I might add, we'll talk at a different time. I just happen to have just gotten it. The Great Library is being published by the World Philosophy, the Center for World Philosophy and Religion. And I'll just show you one book. We won't confuse people. But if you notice the top, this is the first book just came out. If you notice at the top, the author is David J. Temple, and David J. Temple is a pseudo anonymous name, which is the name of the group of us that's come together, right, to put this new great library into the world. And it's always been true that at key moments, new stories of value that changed the

vector of history weren't attributed to one person, but they had to transcend that win-lose metrics ego game and become part of the very, the current of reality itself. So for example, I mean, who wrote the sutras? Who wrote the Vedas? Who wrote the Bible? Right. Who wrote, you know, the Zohar? Right. Some of the Hebrew wisdom books. There's an entire set of books who wrote the canonical books of the wisdom of Solomon.

So generally what happens when there's a literature that is actually going to change the vector of history, right? It's attributed, right, to kind of a symbolic name author. By the way, that's probably also true about William Shakespeare, right? You know, it's a general. So without further ado, let's plunge into our story. What is the new story? So let me try and say it in a couple of words. The new story of Cosmetic Humanism, grounded in the best of the sciences across every discipline in every period of time.

And I want to try and say it in a kind of sutra-like or verse-like style, just to say pieces of it and then unpack it. Okay. So part three. The story begins. Reality is not merely a fact. Reality is a story. One. Reality is not an ordinary story.

Reality is a love story. Two. Reality is not an ordinary love story. Reality is an outrageous love story. Three. Outrageous love is eros. Four, five, eros or outrageous love is not mere human sentiment, a social contrivance of reality. Outrageous love, eros, is the heart of existence itself. Outrageous love is the heart of existence itself. Five. Six. And my story of eros, my love story, is chapter and verse in the universal love story so i'm not separate from that story i don't just live in that story that story lives in me right my story is ontologically

scientifically for real that's ultimate reality my story is a unique chapter and verse in the universe, colon, a love story, right? In the amorous cosmos, right? In the intimate universe, in the cosmoerotic universe, right? So this cosmorotic universe, this amorous cosmos, this intimate universe, right? This universe universe colon, a love story, right? Is the nature of reality. And it's got these two dimensions. One is it's a story. Two is that it's a love story. So the plot line of reality is Eros. So both reality is Eros, A, and two, it's a story, meaning it's going somewhere. It has telos. So eros, which is the quality of reality, also has telos.

It's also going somewhere. There's a story of eros. It's a love story. Now, before we even define eros and define story, which we have to do because we're doing serious thought here. We're going to say, well, what do we mean by story? And what do we mean by eros? Right? So we'll talk about both of those.

But even before then, let's just be kind of, we can kind of get it immediately. So we all like music. Music is beautiful. And music is the quality of the manifest universe. Music doesn't come into existence until there's a manifest universe. Music is actually the interval, the rhythm and interval, the spaces between is what forms music, which is a property of the physical and manifest universe. And so literally, if you actually understand what reality is, reality and human beings, we're actually made up of atoms of music. So I'm not going to spend time in the science of that.

That's what we are. We are music. I am music. We're not just mechanics. And Nietzsche understood this well right we're not we're not mechanics we're music which is why music affects us right i'm i'm living my day and all of a sudden i hear this music and it transforms me whether it's whatever it is or that's that's because i participate in the field of music. Now, what is the lyrical topic of virtually all music? The lyrics of virtually all music in the world is love stories. I didn't make that up.

That's an empirical, overwhelming fact. Sometimes it's love of country. Sometimes it's love of mother. Sometimes it's got a truck, because if it's a Western song, right, right, there's a lot of things going on, right? But it's a love story, right? natural cross temporal meaning across time right quality of reality which demarcates the real reality the real which is music and music is virtually always a love story so that tells you something about reality that tells you oh oh oh oh oh okay right that's that's unimaginably important information and i'm starting in that

kind of ostensibly popular way just we understand this is real right there's a reason why we all listen to music and why all music is love stories right and why when we're in love we feel at home in the universe right and we can't feel love and love means many things. We've exiled love to a very, very narrow form of infatuation that lasts for a day or two. That's not what in love means. And love is a different, broader conversation, which we'll get to. We talk about the stations of eros, the stations of love. But when I'm in love, I'm at home in reality. When I'm not in love, I feel dissociated. I feel depressed. I feel broken. I feel dislocated because I'm not? And that experience of being welcome in the universe is what it feels like when I experience my story

as being chapter and verse in the universal love story. So this is very visceral, it's very immediate, right? And if you would ask me, you know, Mark, what is the primary cause of mental breakdown? So I don't feel welcome in the universe. Right. And there's many things that can, you know, there are intimations. There are intimations.

Intimations is a beautiful word. There's intimations of intimacy in the world. Right. And intimations of intimacy are intimations of the knowing that I'm welcome in the universe. And sometimes it can literally be the sun comes out, like it's a bleary day. You're down in Texas at the farm, and it's like, and all of a sudden, the sun comes out. And it's like, and you feel like some shifts inside of you, because the sun has welcomed you. Or someone you see in a crowd, or you or you're in a crowd and it's I don't know, it's it's New Year's and you're in New York City and the ball's about to drop. And somehow you were drawn to kind of go out there into the crowd and there you are and saying, what am I doing here?

Then someone taps you on the shoulder, says, Kyle, and you turn around and you see something you haven't seen in a long time. You have a really good feeling about it. All of a sudden, you're located in the universe again. It's a love story. All right? And so there's so many ways in which she beckons, she whispers. Right? The intimate conversation in this conversational cosmos where the conversation is Eros.

So now let's go step five. This is the fifth section. Okay okay so what is eros what is love what are we talking about okay so let's let's take this right let's take this and and get very very precise and potent and and alive and take this and and try and understand what what are we really talking about? Let's really become interior scientists, right? Because I generally don't use the word mysticism, although I coined a term many years ago called erotic mystics, which is a beautiful term to be an erotic mystic. And we'll talk about what that means. But underneath erotic mysticism is interior sciences. And the reason I mysticism is interior sciences.

And the reason I like the term interior sciences is because it indicates we're talking about something that's real. It's validated. It's empirical. I can test it. I have direct access to it. It's more real than anything else I know. So the interior sciences are governed by what you might call interior science equations. Interior science equations.

Just like exterior sciences have exterior science equations. And Einstein did not bad on equals MC squared, right? He did a good equation. So I want to offer an equation, right? You know, an equation for, this is an equation which literally defines reality. And I've been privileged, you know, I'm in, you know, in the David J. Temple mode together with my beloved interlocutor, student and friend and, you know, colleague Zach Stein, we've articulated these 18 interior science equations for the first time. It's taken us the last decade. Right. It's exciting and it's exciting and it's not dogmatic. It's self-evidently true, validated across all sciences.

Right. And just to say, I want to just say something to some people listening, right? I understand that when someone says there's an interior science equation, there's a part of you that kind of reacts with a mixture of reactions. It's a big claim to make. So I'm making the claim with an enormous just tenderness, just tenderness, gently, but fiercely, but fiercely, right? In other words, I've spent the last several decades on this, and it's accurate, right?

There's no question in my mind that it's an accurate equation. You know, as da Vinci claimed the accuracy of his claims, we're claiming the accuracy of these claims. They're rooted, they're validated across all disciplines. Because the nature of an equation like this is it's got to be shown to be true in sociology and in anthropology and in physics and in chemistry, right? And it's got to be true across the board, right? That's a wild claim. And so there's a set of equations, and one of them is called the intimacy equation. The other is called the Eros equation. So we'll start with the Eros

equation. So here's the Eros equation, the nature of Eros. So first, let's just establish, right, reality is Eros, and Eros is a story. It's going somewhere. That's what we established before. Reality is not really a fact. It's a story, but it's a love story. It's Eros. It's going somewhere. It has telos. So we live in a world that's both Eros and telos. My dear, my dear beloved evolutionary homemade, a dear friend of mine, of Christina's, of Zach's, who also was the chairperson before Aubrey at the center, it was Barbara Marks Hubbard and Barbara, when we talked about this

Barbara, you know, loved to use the term, yeah we love Barbara, I miss Barbara Barbara loved to use the term telerotic telerotic, and the reason she came to work with me, to study with me, she did Holy of Holies with me for the last four or five years of her life, you know, every week until the end, right? You know, without fail. And I studied with her this kind of new chapter

and she was, you know, one of Barbara's greatnesses is she had done so much. I started studying with her when she was 83 or 84, until she was 89, right? And she'd accomplished so much. I started studying with her when she was 83 or 84, until she was 89, right? And she'd accomplished so much. And then she had this enormously beautiful recognition. She said, oh, she started reading, then she read everything she could find from my notes, my computer or the books. And she said, well, this is the next chapter. You're explaining to me what I mean by telerotic, right? You know, and so, but the phrase telerotic, I want to really, is hers. And she was a deep,

she was deep in all of these conversations with us and is a deep partner. And she's part of David J. Temple, right? You know, her spirit, her feminine force, you know, breathes in this, right? So, and Christina's here. Christina, is that right? Amen Amen says Christina

so here's the equation Eros so reality is Eros here's the equation Eros equals the experience of radical aliveness so Eros equals

the experience of radical aliveness. So eros equals the experience of radical aliveness, moving towards, seeking, desiring ever deeper contact and ever greater wholeness. That's the equation. We can maybe put it on the screen somehow, but let me say it again. So eros is the experience of radical aliveness moving towards seeking, desiring ever deeper contact and ever greater wholeness. Now, here's the wild thing. That applies to Mark and Kyle and their brotherhood, right? It applies to me and my beloved partner, KK, who's right in front of me here. It applies to Mark and Barbara. It applies to OBS, our friend Aubrey and Kyle.

It applies to Kyle and his beautiful wife, who I met actually at Aubrey's dad's funeral. It applies to Godsey and Gateland. It applies to human beings. But it also applies to subatomic particles. Right. The same thing. Right. So in other words, what is a subatomic particles? You've got let's say you've got gazillions of quarks. Right. In the first nanoseconds of the Big Bang. And then about 380,000 years later, right, we're actually at this moment where we have protons, neutrons, and electrons, right? These, you know, and protons and neutrons and electrons, or particularly protons and neutrons are particular configurations of intimacy between quarks with up quarks and down quarks. You've got protons and neutrons, electrons, you know, 380,000 years, you know, ABB after the Big Bang. And there's this eros.

There's this desire for the protons, the neutrons and electrons to come together. They want deeper contact. They want to intensify their closeness. They want to intensify their intimacy. And so they come together. They come together. They don't disappear. They don't dissolve in each other but they actually come together they create deeper contact and then that deeper contact creates greater wholeness and that great wholeness is called an

atom that's exactly what an atom is right and that precise process right of er right, that that that made us excited when we met each other. So let's get to know there's a new brother. Right. And let's find time to talk to each other. We don't do we don't do as well as we should. Right. Right. So but that same process and that happens all the way up and all the way down the evolutionary chain. In other words, the entire world of matter and all of the unfoldings of matter from the first quarks, right, you know, which only exist when there's three together, otherwise the quarks are gone, right, to subatomic particles, you know, leptons, hadrons, muons, right, the whole world of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Then you go into atoms, then you go into atoms then you go into molecules then you go into macro molecules

and then you go into kind of you know you intensify the eros within macro molecules and you generate actually cells and you have single cellular life and then you have multicellular life which roughly approximate but are not precise prokaryotes and eukaryotes and then you have kind of early early organisms and you have right you keep going up to you know neural net and neural cord and you keep going up the animals amphibian animal right you know you know plants you know some are you know early on you know and ultimately you get up to animals and then later animals and early mammals mammalian hominids and hump right you've got this

this process so all the way up from matter, right, through life, and then hominids, right, Homo erectus, you know, part of the homogenous at some point 70,000 years ago, 200,000 years ago, kind of, you know, are able to kind of articulate in this new way called language, and language tells stories in a new way, and new forms of eros that allows for deeper contact, right? And so when we talk about Eros, right, Eros actually operates, it evolves in the way it operates. It creates different configurations in the way it operates, but it's the same fundamental force that's moving cosmos, right? This movement, the plot line of cosmos, right, which is a story, is the evolution of love, is the evolution of Eros.

So the evolution of love is driven, or the evolution of Eros is driven by Eros itself. Another term for it, Peirce, Charles Sanders Peirce, who was one of the great polymaths, right, of, you know, the last, you know, epic in history. So Charles Sanders Peirce, who, by the way, he's a student of Baldwin, and then kind of Peirce kind of gives birth to, you know, Piaget, you know, then, you know, ultimately to Alfred North Whitehead, that whole kind of alternative, right, lineage of polymaths who really understood Darwin better than the neo-Darwinians who are now kind of just being reclaimed. So Peirce has a phrase he calls evolutionary love, right? And by evolutionary love, and my colleague Ken Wilber and I wrote a

little essay called Evolutionary Love maybe a decade ago, but evolutionary love is outrageous love. It's eros, right? It's the eros that incepts evolution and drives evolution. So evolution is driven by evolutionary love, and the plough line of evolution is the evolution of love. So love is real. Love's not a social construction. Love's not made up as ChatGPT3 claimed. Love is not real. It's a social construction. No, love's real and it evolves. Love is the very structure of cosmos itself, right? From the very beginning, eros drives all of reality and the evolution of love is what drives reality, right? Let me introduce another word which might be helpful. Allurement. Allurement. Allurement's such a nice word, right? And it's such a, allurement is a quality of Eros. Allurement is, why am I talking to Kyle? I'm talking to Kyle because there's rational reasons to talk. Well, sort of. Okay. I'm talking to Kyle because we have some shared interests. Yeah. Yeah, I'm talking to Kyle because I like him. Yeah. But it's all different and all

that. I'm talking to Kyle because he's talking to me because we're allured. It's like, oh, right. I want to talk to Kyle. There's this quality of allurement that's underneath everything. And it's underneath also the physical forces. You talk about gravity. You talk about electromagnetism. Electromagnetism, which operates at the subatomic world already. Gravity operates in the celestial world. What's under electromagnetism? What's under gravity? Alarmant.

That's what it is, right? Alarmant drives reality, right? Alarmant actually drives my life. And to actually know who I am and to understand my irreducible uniqueness is to know that I'm a unique set of allurements, right? Who I am, who am I? I'm a unique configuration of eros and desire, right? Desire has dignity. Desire is a quality of eros. Desire is not something that we need

to eradicate. We need to clarify desire, the clarification of desire, knowing what is my deepest heart's desire. And my deepest heart's desire is the desire of God. My deepest heart's desire is the desire of evolution itself, right? My allurement, right, my unique allurement, which is my unique deepest heart's desire, is the unique configuration of desire that is reality having a Kyle experience. But that's not clever. That's science. That's the most accurate scientific view of who Kyle is. Who is Kyle? of a desire that allows them to create unique qualities of contact, of depth, that then

generate new holes that can't be generated by anyone else that ever was, is, or will be. That's eros. So reality is eros. And eros drives reality. Eros is the plotline of reality. And I want to introduce, you know, really talk about this word desire. Because remember in our equation, remember in our equation, Eros equals the experience of radical aliveness.

Okay. Moving towards seeking, desiring. This is a big reality desires. That's the nature of reality. Reality desires. That's the nature of reality. Reality desires. Right. To reject desire is to reject the real. To clarify desire is to engage in the uniquely human capacity as unique configurations of desire to access the depths of desire.

Right. So what's my real desire? I have a pseudo desire. I have depths of desire. So what's my real desire? I have a pseudo desire. I have an authentic desire. I need to clarify my desire. That process of the clarification of desire is what creates greatness. But my deepest heart's desire is the desire of God. And I've got to follow that desire. And that desire desires ever deeper contact. It desires ever greater wholeness, and to actually embrace and to know that, to know that I actually live in a field of desire, and that desire is unique, and that desire is not replicated, never was, is, or will be ever again other than through me, is to begin to become alive. I actually begin to feel desire, not as an aberrant force moving in

me, not as some, you know, early pathology based on particular traumas that then fetishized in a particular way that I'm not quite sure what to do with, right, that disturbed my equanimity or my social self or my kind of public persona. No, no, actually the unique quality of desire is my essence. Actually, in the wisdom of Solomon, which is one of the primary lineages, maybe the primary lineage that forms, you know, Western esotericism, in the wisdom of Solomon, desire is the name of God. And it's very beautiful. There's Solomon, desires the name of God. And it's very beautiful. There's a four-letter name of God.

Remember Leonard Cohen, right? You know, Leonard Leonard, who kind of brings Hallelujah out of the churches and synagogues and into the marketplace. And Hallelujah that has more covers than any other song. So Hallelujah. Yeah. So yeah is the Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, is the breath. Yeah. Yeah. The breath. So yeah, is yud-hey. The first two letters. So the yud is the, it's the yin and yang. It's the feminine and masculine pole of reality. So the yud,

right, the masculine pole that lives in every, in every being, in every dimension of reality. So the yud, the masculine pole that lives in every being, in every dimension of reality, enters the he, the y enters the h, if you will, in English. So that's the first movement of eros, the penetration of the yud. The yud penetrates the he. The he receives the yud. That's ya, yud hehe. And then the last two letters are vav-he or v-h, b-y-h-v-h. Vav-he, the vav, which is a yud. A yud is like this little small, you know, you know, like that, this little small figure. Maybe we can get it on the screen. We can share it with people. I'll send you a yud-he, vav-he. So this is a vav. A vav is a yud pulled down. It's a kind of classically phallic figure. So the vav enters the heh. So the vav entering the heh, right, is the second dimension of the name of God. So the name of God is, it's a four-letter name of God.

And the first two letters are the yud entering the heh. and the second is the Vav entering the Hey. Now the Yud entering the Hey is called by the interior sciences, Tre Reyn Delomit Parshin, the two beloveds that never separate. And the two beloveds that never separate are the qualities, the fixed features of allurement and cosmos

that are never not there, like gravity, like electromagnetism, like the strong and the weak nuclear, like all the mathematical equations, like the entire system of coherence, like complexity theory and chaos theory that are now through computers mapping that vast field. That's what Turing was doing in morphogenesis. So those are the lovers that never separate. That's the first dimension of Eros.

Then the second dimension of Eros, the Vav enters the He, the last two letters of the name of God in the wisdom of Solomon tradition, that's called Treyrein the Mekparshin, that's called aroused Eros, that's the Eros that's generated through human beings. Human beings coming alive and generating the next stage in the story. Writing the next chapter in the story. That's through my love story, through my story of Eros, which is part of the field of Eros. I'm not dislocated. I'm not dissociated. I'm welcome in the universe.

My story is the next stage of the story of the erotic cosmos. The erotic motive of the cosmos is the motivational architecture of my interiors. There's no separation. It's a participatory universe, and I participate in the field of Eros. It's shockingly beautiful. And it's shockingly sacred. And you begin to say, okay, oh, reality is Eros. So let me just go maybe one more step here, okay? Maybe two more steps.

Right? And I know we're going for about an hour and I think we're so we've got to know about seven, eight more minutes, something like that. Okay, awesome. Awesome. So first, for those of you who are saying, hey, I'm about ethics, not about eros. We've got to be ethical. That's a really beautiful thing to say. So let's stay very close. This is a principle of reality.

It's a principle of cosmorotic humanism. It's a principle of the human world. If I had time, I would show how it works all the way down the evolutionary chain and all the way up. But for now, we'll focus on the human world. All collapses in ethics come from a prior collapse of eros. Ethical rules that are imposed from without don't work. They always break down because really ethical collapse means I feel empty. I feel desiccated. Right?

I feel like I'm hollow on the inside. Right? You read, you know, accounts of inmates on death row. Some of them were there because they did things that were terrible and some of them were there because they can't afford a defense and they're innocent. To be clear. Right? to be clear, right? But I'm talking even about those who got caught in terrible ethical violations, and you read the description of the days leading up to, and the word hollow comes up again and again, this emptiness, this hollowness, and it's a hollowness that we all know. It's not them, right? We all, we can, we can access that immediately. It's that feeling of hollowness that moves me to act out.

It moves me to try and fill the emptiness. And I fill the emptiness with pseudo-aliveness. I fill the emptiness with pseudo-Eros. There's Eros, which is an experience of the actual currency of life that animates cosmos all the way up and all the way down the evolutionary chain. When I can't access Eros, I reach for pseudo eros. So everything we talked about is about ethos, is about ethics, right? Because all breakdowns in ethics universally across time and space always happen because of a prior breakdown of eros, right? So unless you re-eroticize, unless you access the field of eros, which always means you're accessing the unique field of eros, right?

Because I'm a unique configuration of eros and desire. And when we get to the faces of eros, we'll talk about uniqueness, right, in more depth. But I've got to access the unique field of eros. If I don't access the unique field of eros, then I feel desiccated. I become the hollow man and the stuffed man, right, of the great poet, right? And I break down. And I break down and my ethics break down. So that's really important to understand that. And two, let's add a second dimension, which is wildly exciting. It's so subtle, but it's also so clear and so beautiful. See if I can kind of say it simply.

So what is desire? When we talk about desire, what do we desire? What's the nature of desire? Desire means I want something that's not yet here. So desire means I'm reaching into the future. I'm not like saying, hey, here we are. We're done. Now I'm excited about doing the next 12 conversations on Eros with Kyle.

They're not done yet. So I'm desiring that. So desire, clarified desire, my deepest heart's desire, means I'm reaching for a value that's not yet here. Desire is always desire for value. That's what desire actually is. It's very beautiful. I'm not talking about values hijacked by particular dogmatic group of value. Value means there's intrinsic value to cosmos and matters. Right, the world is not made up just of matter. Reality is not defined by matter. Reality is defined by what matters. Right, and that's critical.

What matters is the nature of reality. Reality is defined by value, right? So the reason, for example, that protons, neutrons, and electrons can talk to each other is because they communicate. It's a conversational cosmos, and there's a field of value between them, which they actually exchange signals and information, right, which have all the characteristics of what we call communication. We sometimes refer to it as information. But information is not, you know, it's not bits and bytes, as Shannon kind of described it. Information, as Shannon got the math right, but the metaphor wrong,

that information is meaning, structures and cosmos, value structures and cosmos. That's the nature of it. In other words, evolution proceeds because there's a set of mathematical equations, a set of physics equations that have value in them. There's certain value that lives in them, and that value defines and allows for the conversational cosmos to take place. So desire means I have a desire for more. For more what? For more value. When I have a desire, what's value? Well, so the ultimate value of cosmos is obviously eros itself right so cosmos desires right cosmos is eros reality is eros eros desires what does eros desire eros desires value right right so eros desires value value the the

the penultimate expression of value is eros our Value is eros. Eros is the movement of cosmos in which we experience radical liveness, and then separate parts come together in deeper contact and larger wholeness. That is the penultimate value of cosmos. So you might even talk about, Kyle, my brother, we might even talk about not about value and eros, but about we're going to make up a new word, eros value. One word, right? And when we separate words, sometimes we need to bring them together. So reality is the movement of eros. What is eros? Eros is the eros value of cosmos. It's cosmos reaching for more value. That's the nature of cosmos. Cosmos reaches for value in its very nature. Eros value is the love intelligence and the love beauty and the love desire of reality reaching for ever deeper contact and ever more wholeness. And that's true if it's between me and my friend and between

me and my beloved, between me and my child, between me and my partners in the company, or whether it's happening on the atomic subat, molecular level, whether it's happening at any of the levels of the biosphere, whether it's happening at any and all of the levels of human development. All of a sudden, we realize we're at home in the cosmos, and it's not that we've, in a fundamentalist way, denied the mystery. Eros is filled with mystery. We're not claiming a kind of fundamentalist certainty which occludes mystery. But if I actually live in Eros, as I live in the irreducibly unique configuration of desire in Eros, which is my story, then I can hold the mystery. Because I experience not that it is true from a perspective of dogma, I experience that I am true.

When I'm in my radical life, it's not about it is true, it's about I am true. From the place of I am true, the radical, the core certainty of my own being, I can hold uncertainty. I don't need to reach for false certainties, right? For dogmas, for fundamentalisms. I don't need to place myself or people in a box and, right, and actually deny them the capacity to emerge in the fullness of their else. So maybe conclusion. We've begun, we've offered our first taste of Eros, right? The answer to one of the three great questions of cosmorotic humanism. The three great questions are, where are you?

Who are you? What ought be done? Those are the three questions. Those are the simple first rules. If we answer them accurately, they generate a new reality, a new human and a new humanity. So if we focus together, my brother, on where are you? You're in a cosmorotic universe. You're in an amorous cosmos. You're in an intimate universe. You're in the universal love story in which your story is chapter and verse of the

larger story. We've also addressed something of the question of who are you? Who are you? You're a unique configuration of desire. What ought be done? Clarify your deepest heart's desire. And reach for the value that is the North Star that allures you through your unique set of alarmants. We begin to have a world that coheres. We begin to emerge, right, this new human and new humanity. So we've begun, my friend. What a wondrous joy.

Yes. The best. Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, brother.

Thank you so much. Well, I'm quite excited to be on the front lines of this education. And I appreciate every second of your time. I love you madly, brother. And I'm really looking forward to these next 12. Cha, my friend. Cha. Yes.

Beautiful. Oh, gorgeous. Gorgeous. you you