Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #356 Core Archetypes In The World w/ Greg Schmaus

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

Hopefully most of y’all know Greg from our previous convos or you’ve worked with him. For any newcomers though… Greg Schmaus is the CEO of Healing 4D, a Holistic Health Practitioner, Shamanic Energy Healer, and Massage Therapist. He is the creator of “Healing The Mind,” a 21 day holistic mental health program. In today’s episode we get a little refresher of the four survival archetypes outlined in Carolyn Myss’ work(Child, Victim, Saboteur, Prostitute). Greg also walks us through some additional archetypes to be aware of and work with. The Mother and Father representing how we relate to ourselves and the world. He also introduces the Imago Dei, how you relate and project your image of god into whatever you do. Give us a listen and get to work y’all! Head over to Healing4d.com to check Greg’s work out and if called, dive into his programs, Healing The Mind and Healing Your Core Archetypes. Later this Summer Greg will also have an 8 week program working through the core archetypes he lays out. Use code “KYLE20” for 20% off any of his offerings.   Connect with Greg: Website: www.healing4d.com  Instagram: @4d_healing    Show Notes:  Armstrong Economics "It Didn't Start With You" -Mark Wolynn "Gene Keys" -Richard Rudd   Sponsors: Caldera Lab is the best in men’s skincare. Head over to calderalab.com/KKP to get any/all of their regimen. Use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off Bioptimizers To get the ’Magnesium Breakthrough‘ deal exclusively for fans of the podcast, click the link below and use code word “KINGSBU10” for an additional 10% off. magbreakthrough.com/kingsbu  Happy Hippo Kratom is in my opinion the cleanest Kratom product I’ve used. Head over to HappyHippo.com/KKP code “KKP” for 15% off entire store Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Twitter: @KINGSBU  Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Today's guest is the return of Greg Schmaus. And I don't know how many times it's been, three or four with him. Greg is a guy who's constantly learning, constantly educating himself, and constantly getting his medicine out in the world in various ways. And he's just created a phenomenal program that I'm really happy to share with you guys. And we tease out quite a bit of the medicine from this program that gets us to start thinking

in different ways, archetypically, about our life and how to operate. And I was just blown the fuck away. I mean, he hit me up to come back. I'm like, yeah, tell me about it. We did a little call and I was fucking excited. And so I know you guys are going to love

this episode. Definitely. We'll have his stuff linked in the show notes. So if you really want a deep dive, the conversation that we have and learn for yourself, I highly recommend studying with Greg. He's got it available online. And, and let me know, let me know if you start this program, I'd love to hear about it. Hit me up at living with the Kingsbury's on Instagram or at Kingsborough on Twitter and say, yeah, I've started this program X rather you say started, started Greg's program and it's done X, Y, and Z for me. I know it's going to be super transformative for people. And I'm super excited to be able to help him get the word out on that. And I'm super excited. This episode is fucking rad and that people will learn a lot just from listening to

this one in terms of framing and understanding things about our own life. It's a, it was just a gem. I was starting to think through a whole ton of shit around myself. So very, very excited about it. Support this podcast by sharing it with a friend, leave us a five-star rating with one or two ways the show's helped you out in life and support our sponsors. These guys make this show fiscally possible. I love them all. Hand-selected these guys. Our first sponsor of today's episode is Caldera. First impressions matter. There are no two ways around it.

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I'm a hundred kilos. Go to www.organifi.com slash KKP and use code KKP for 20% off everything in this phenomenal store that Organifi has. And if you're wise, you'll pick out more than just the Sheila G gummies because everything they make is phenomenal. Love these guys. And without further ado, my brother, the return of Greg Schmaus. Greg, welcome back to the podcast, brother. Thanks, man. I'm so excited to chat with you i'm not sure is this our third or fourth i think it's number four fuck yeah that's great to hear 40 and we've run all these online i love it the beauty of technology it's a blessing and a curse you're the only multiple guy i've had on more than more than three you know more than a couple times where

i've done this uh strictly online but you're on the east coast correct yeah but we need to change that we need to do one in person 100 100 well you anytime you've got something awesome coming on you hit me up and i've always said yes because i absolutely love having you as a guest here on the show i think there's a ton of value. And, you know, I've had different people come on that have broken down aspects of archetypes and some of Caroline Mace's work, which of course you've covered extensively, but no one quite does it like you. And I'm thrilled for that. And I say that in a hundred percent honesty, it's one of the reasons

I keep wanting you to come back is because, you know, I'm chewing on things relative to physical health and you're chewing on things that are relative to the psyche and the mental health and how we interface, you know, how does our operating system interface with reality? And I love that. Something we were talking about before we got on is how there are some core tenants, you know, like I may have the warrior archetype, somebody else may not, but there are some core tenets that Mace outlined as our survival archetypes. And then even beyond that, you've outlined a few more. So tell us what you got going on here and let's dive into it, because I think this is fantastic. So my introduction to archetypes was

through Paul Cech, where he introduced me to the four survival archetypes, but also the mother, the father, and the imago Dei. And the reason those are so essential is the mother is your relationship with the feminine. The father is your relationship with the masculine. And when we're born as children, our mother is our initial relationship to the feminine energy, and our father is our initial relationship to the masculine energy. And the mother archetype creates what's called your inner ego, which is how you relate to yourself. The father archetype creates your outer ego, which is how you relate to the outer world. So those are absolutely essential

to understand because the mother archetype is how you receive yourself. The father archetype is how you anticipate being received by the world. And so for example, if I take a look at my relationship with myself, you work with the physical body, right? So if I take a look at my relationship with my physical body, one of the challenges that I've had to work through in my own life is whenever I have pain or symptoms in my body, I might tend to smother my body. I might tend to try and control my body, almost like a helicopter parent that doesn't give the body enough space or room to breathe. Well, if I look at the mother archetype, a lot of times, those were the ways my mother parented me. Whenever I was in pain, whenever I was sick or struggling with something emotionally,

she would be very loving, but sometimes smothering. So I realized I started to relate to my body in the exact same way my mother related to me. If I take a look at the father archetype, my father was able to receive my accomplishments, my achievements, but not my emotions or my vulnerability. So the child inside of me and the ego inside of me says, okay, my father was able to receive these parts of me, but not those. Therefore, the world is going to be able to receive the accomplishments and the achievements, but the world will not be able to receive my emotions or my vulnerability. So I compartmentalize those parts of me.

So you see how the mother and the father set up this dynamic of how you relate to yourself, how you receive yourself, and how you anticipate being received by the world. So one of the reasons men's work has been so important for me was to realize that there are actually men out there that could receive all of me, that I don't have to compartmentalize the parts of me that I felt like my father couldn't receive. Or if I look at my relationship with my body now,

I'm learning to give my body the space and room to breathe that my mother never gave me. So you realize that healing aspects of your mother lineage and your father lineage can all happen inside of you and how you relate to yourself, how you receive yourself, and how you anticipate or believed that you were going to be received by the world, right? So there's the mother and the father archetype. The four survival archetypes are the ones that Caroline misidentified, which are the child, the victim, the saboteur, and the prostitute. And these are all our survival reflexes. So we're born like this helpless, powerless child that's totally dependent on external authority figures for its own survival, right? When you and I were babies, we couldn't feed ourselves.

We couldn't pay the bills. We couldn't put a roof overhead. That all had to be done for us. So essentially, we're helpless and powerless. And so the child develops this sense of who do I have to become to get my needs met. And we also have to pay attention to any situation in which I might be victimized. I might feel unsafe. I feel like a boundary is being crossed. Now the victim is birthed. And then there's a situation in which we have to sabotage ourselves for our own survival. It might be, I need to sabotage my voice or sabotage my

truth because if I speak my truth, I might get attacked or I might get persecuted. So we sabotage our voice for our own survival. Or there's a time where we feel low self-worth and low self-esteem, where we feel like we have to compromise our values or integrity or negotiate ourselves to feel safe. Like for example, I remember being a child and going to the movies with friends and my mom would give me some money. I'd buy my friends movie tickets. And at the time I was like, oh, I'm being a nice friend. I'm being, you know, whatever. But now that I've done this work, I realized I was buying their loyalty. My low self-worth, my low self-esteem said, they're not going to want to be friends with me just for me, so I'm going to buy an insurance policy. That's my prostitute. I started

doing that when I was 11 years old, right? So these survival archetypes are the parts of us that ensure our safety, security. They're very root chakra driven. But a lot of times and over time, it becomes at the expense of our own freedom, at the expense of our own empowerment, and at the expense of our own health. For example, we might sabotage our health just to ensure some security, some survival, some safety. I might play the victim as a way of getting certain emotional needs met. Like my dad was a physician. I mentioned I wasn't very emotionally close with him. He was a great provider.

But anytime I was in pain or anytime I had an injury, for example, my dad was an orthopedist, my mom would take me to his office and I'd get the best treatment from him and his partners and his nurses. And the little victim inside of me said, oh, when I'm in pain, I get more love for my father. I get more attention and emotional connection from him. So I started associating poor health or injury with more love and connection. So you realize that one of the biggest questions we always ask ourselves, especially as practitioners or healers, is why is this person not healing?

What part of us is actually benefiting from not healing? That's the most important question to ask if you're struggling healing from something. Ask yourself, what part of me is benefiting by not healing from this? And now you've arrived at the four core reasons why people don't heal. The child, the victim, the saboteur, and the prostitute. So these are the four survival archetypes that I go into in the course. I add the mother and father because of the reasons I spoke about earlier. And then I add the imago Dei, which is the seventh archetype. And the imago Dei is essential because the imago Dei represents the image of God that we all hold within us. And the reason that's so important

is because the imago Dei informs all the other archetypes. For example, if we go into religion, a lot of our religions, especially the Western Judeo-Christian religions, God is the father. Whenever you make God a father, you immediately project all of your stuff with your parents onto God and you return back to the archetype of the child. Right? The second piece is if you have these ideas, whether it's from the Bible or any scripture, what you were told by your priest, rabbi, pastor, whatever, of what God wants of you, what God needs of you, what God expects of you,

that leads to a lot of self-sabotage. It could be sexually, it could be emotionally, it could be financially. A lot of people have religious ideas about money that lead to patterns of self-sabotage. So you realize that the Imago Dei, whatever your image of God is, informs the child, informs the saboteur, informs when you feel victimized, when you feel like life is happening to you, informs the saboteur, informs when you feel victimized. When you feel like life is happening to you, maybe you're deserving of a punishment. How many people have this reward punishment dynamic

with God where I do something good, I deserve a reward like the spiritual brownie points. I do something bad, I deserve a punishment. Well, what happens when you do something good and you don't get the reward? You feel like a Well, what happens when you do something good and you don't get the reward? You feel like a victim. What happens when you have unwanted circumstances, but you can't find something you did to deserve it? You feel like a victim. So you see how the Imago Dei is informing all of these archetypes. If you take the prostitute, the prostitute is the classic negotiator.

How much of our prayer life is an act of negotiation, right? You know the archetype wheel. The ninth house is spirituality. I have my prostitute in the ninth house. So I've always looked at where my prayer is an act of negotiation with God. God, I promise if you give me this, I won't do this in return anymore. It's a negotiation. That's the prostitute. Or how much we receive spiritual insight from the soul, from the universe, whatever term you want to use, it doesn't matter, but we override it out of fear. The prostitute's always competing with intuition. The prostitutes always trying to override intuition because a lot of times intuition is telling you to do something that goes against your survival programs. Like maybe you're an accountant and your intuition or God says, it's time for you to go be

a healer or a painter or an artist. While the prostitute says, well, you're getting a steady paycheck as an accountant. So that's a bad idea. You see how the prostitute always overrides intuition to always ensure a guarantee, a guaranteed paycheck, guaranteed security. For me as a child, it was guaranteed loyalty. So you see how these archetypes are really the essence of the healing journey. And they relate to your relationship with power, right? The shadow side is where we give our power away for safety and security. The light side is where we reclaim our power and move towards freedom and empowerment. And that's why I created this course, because I found these seven archetypes are really the essence of anyone's healing journey. And you can't really

fully heal or come to know yourself in your fullest expression, your highest potential without understanding these seven forces. That's an awesome, awesome layout. I'm super stoked to dive deeper into this and awesome. I can't wait to jump into the course as well. There's a whole bunch that I want to talk to you about and ask about. I think first, let's start with the Imago Dei. How would that fit? Because this is one of Jung's most important understandings. How does that fit into somebody who claims to be an atheist or somebody who claims, I mean, is it just their God?

You know, is science their God? Is Einstein then the picture of their God? How does that work? It's so funny that you asked this. I was literally sitting on a rock yesterday with my partner. And I was just talking, we were talking about like being an atheist and believing in God. And I just like was like, I feel like atheists all still have an Imago Dei. Even if consciously you're an atheist, unconsciously, you still have an image of God inside of you. And the way I was kind of exploring this was looking at the martyr archetype, because this is something that came up for me in a plant medicine ceremony recently, where I sat with some medicine on Easter. And on Easter, when I sat with

medicine, I was out in New Mexico, there was a deep connection, understandably, with the Christ energy. And the Christ energy in the religious teachings represents the martyr, right? Jesus represents the martyr archetype, which is self-sacrifice for the good of the greater whole. But a lot of people take that teaching and use it as a form of self-victimizing, right? And the teaching that came through in medicine was when you know who and what you are, the sacrifice is not a sacrifice. And when you know who and what you are as the eternal witness, whatever it is that you're taking on or bringing into your field, you transmute it immediately. But how many of us tend to take on things, show up for things, say yes past our capacity, martyr ourselves, sacrifice ourselves, and think that sacrificing

myself and doing for others at the expense of myself is a noble thing to do. Atheists still do that. Atheists are still sacrificing themselves and thinking that on some level they're getting some like brownie points of like, I'm doing something good. That comes from religious teaching. That comes from scripture where it says, you know, deny thyself or self-sacrifice. That's like some noble thing because obviously Jesus represents that archetypally. But the truth is, Jesus didn't really care if he had a body or not because he knew who and what he was but how many people walking around nowadays sacrificing themselves are coming from that place 0.001 so atheists are still acting out these belief systems unconsciously the martyr being

one of them based on some unconscious imago dei that they have inside of them based on some unconscious imago Dei that they have inside of them. So it's funny that you asked that because that was literally one of my contemplations yesterday was how atheists still have an image of God, even though they're rejecting the idea of God. I think it was Jung who said in order, in order for something to be rejected at first must be real. That's right. I love that quote. Right? So the imago Dei, and so much of this is so unconscious, right? These archetypes are so

deep in the psyche that on a conscious level, you might say I'm an atheist, but on a deeper level, you really have these formative forces inside of you. And also, one of the things that I add in the course is it's not just your image of God that's significant, that's informing all the other archetypes. It's also your myth around death. So for example, if you believe death is just lights out, that's going to inform your survival archetypes in a very different way way as opposed to your myth around death is reincarnation right if you think it's one and done that's going to inform your child victim saboteur and prostitute very differently than if you believe this is just a continuation of a soul's journey right because what you're going to do the choices you're going to make the risks you're

going to take the willingness to follow your, that's very different based on what you believe is behind the veil. So an atheist still has that. So no matter what people say, all of these archetypes are still informing their choices and behaviors. Yeah, I'd love that. And just, I think of someone like Rupert Sheldrake's, you know, workke's work on morphic resonance, and the field that we're all tapped into, the field exists, and that field is impregnated with the archetypes, it's impregnated with even the delusions of God and the delusions of what Jesus meant. And I think that we're all tapping into that on some level, no matter what we claim is ours to believe in or not,

that there's an effect that happens from that. Even if you grew up in a house that was science only, no matter what we claim is ours to believe in or not, that there's an effect that happens from that. Even if you grew up in a house that was science only, no religion whatsoever, you know, you can choose to believe in whatever you want, but mom and dad don't. There still is a piece of that because of the fact that it's impregnated so deeply in human consciousness. Absolutely. One thing I wanted to talk about was, you know, the men's work piece. And, you know, it's been, we're in Austin, Texas, you know, there's a huge movement for that here. And I think that they're, depending on who you go to, it can be awesome, or it can be a lot of rah-rah bullshit. I love Plotkin's work. I think

he's incredible. I think there's plenty of great practitioners within the space. But one of the things that came up for me in thinking of the mother archetype is how a lot of times in men's work, especially, and I say this, especially for men, you follow a guy like Robert Bly and Iron John, you know, and the myth of Iron John, one of the biggest parts of that myth is that we must sever ourselves from our mother, right? We must make recontact with the wild man, the inner wild man inside and harness that back without the need of mom's approval, you know, and there is such truth to that. But I think what you're offering is an even deeper look on what it means to interact with the mother archetype, right? How does that influence who I am, not based on how my relationship

is with my mom right now, but on what she was to me when I was growing up, when I was completely programmable and just a sponge soaking up everything that mom gave me. And I think that's such a deeper look at the consideration of what mom's impact is. Yeah. I don't know if completely severing it is the right approach because there's also gifts that you receive from your mother lineage, just as much as there's gifts that you receive from your father's lineage. And also from a shamanic perspective, we have a relationship with the ancestors. For me, the ancestors are such a huge part of our journey here as a soul and through this incarnation. So if we're doing some sort of severing process, I understand cutting cords. Like, yes, we have to cut energetic cords that are keeping us trapped, keeping us limited, keeping us from our fullest expression. But the truth is, we're always going to have a relationship with the mother and father archetype because they live inside of you. And to me, the severing and going and being the wild man feels very rebellious. And that might be a phase, but I feel like the rebel

then has to grow into the liberator. Where the rebel is always pushing back against something, the liberator is creating freedom. And if you're always trying to push something away, you're not actually free. So until you create freedom as the liberator, you're always going to remain the rebel. And I feel like over the last few years, people's inner rebel has gotten really active, understandably so, because there's an important part of the rebel, which is pushing back against authority when it feels invasive or threatening. But we can't stop there. Because if you stay the rebel, then you stay kind of like the child that's always pushing back against mom and dad. You have to move forward into the liberator, or Paul talks about the warrior, which is okay, well, instead of me trying to push

back against mom and dad, or this is a big one, me trying to be unlike mom and dad, that was a big thing for me is how much I was trying to be unlike my father, rather than really defining who does Greg want to be as a man. Because anytime you are trying to push someone away or be unlike them, you're still using them as a reference point. You don't actually fully know yourself. And you're also going to reject the parts of yourself that are similar to the parts of them that you dislike. Like Paul Selig says, whatever you cast into the darkness, you call yourself into it, right? So it's not a rejection, it's an integration, right? I had to meet the parts of me that would smother myself the way my mom smothered me. I had to meet the parts of me that were consuming information as a form of intellectual armoring, the way my father's family

were all academics and intellectuals. I just did it with spiritual information or holistic health information, but it was the same form of intellectual armoring, right? So if I armored myself with all this knowledge, I don't have to rely on the expression of my own heart, which is what my father and his family did. And I just adopted my own version of that. So really the mother and father, as much as you try and push them away, wherever you go, there you are, right? So they're right inside of you. And it's more of integrating those aspects of you, taking the gifts, letting go of the things that aren't serving you, but also becoming the mother and father to yourself that you needed as a child, but never received. So if I ask myself, what did I need from my mom? Space, room to breathe. Cool.

How can I offer that to myself? What did I need from my dad? More emotional connection. Cool. How can I offer that to myself? So you can actually use the unmet need as an opportunity to bring yourself into more wholeness. So that's why I'm more of a fan of the integration rather than a severing, because it gives you an opportunity to really develop rather than just push away. I love it. So many things that you said in there that I absolutely love. And it just makes me think of, you know, that what you're speaking to is alchemy, right? And that alchemy is such a massive piece because you can, whatever you resist persists.

And the selling quote is awesome. That's the exact thing I was thinking of, you know, holding. So if you put someone in the cage, you're holding them there, right? There's part of these, they're holding them in there. And, um, but thinking about how the, when we, when we use that for alchemy, we can take a thing and transform it into something new, right? So it's no longer a resistance piece. It's no longer what you resist persists. It's an acknowledging of, yes, this is true. And we're going to work something.

We're going to make something new from it. And I love that. Yeah. And you know, one of my real interests also with these archetypes is the ancestral piece and how much of these archetypal patterns are passed down from generation to generation. And, you know, Mark Wolin's work, it didn't start with you and all of that is really tied into a lot of this archetypal work. And for myself, for example, I come from a Jewish family of Holocaust survivors. So there's a huge trauma there that has informed all of these archetypes. When we feel like we need to sabotage ourselves for safety, when we need to prostitute ourselves for security because

anything could be taken away in a moment's notice, or the situations in which as Jews we were victimized. So therefore we need to pay attention to any situation in which we might be a victim. So a lot of these archetypes are showing up generationally and ancestrally, but a lot of the patterns that we experience in relationship to these archetypes are not just from childhood, but from previous generations. So a lot of the victim that I've had to heal inside of me is not just how I felt victimized as a child, but how my parents, grandparents, and their parents felt victimized over the course of, you know, hundreds of years. And when it comes to the victim archetype, the most important thing, especially now, and I'd love to dive into this with you, is the victim triangle. The victim triangle,

which is the trinity of archetypes that are all in relationship with another. It's kind of like a closed loop where you have the victim, the rescuer, and the villain. And if we look at kind of current events, if we look at the pandemic, if we look at everything that's going on in the world, including every industry, it's all based on the victim triangle where you identify a victim, some population that's the victim,

some people that are the villain, and then others that identify as the rescuer. And this is happening externally and collectively, but this is also happening just within yourself. All of these archetypes happening within just inside of you. If we take a look at, for example, you work with the body, our relationship with the body, a lot of times, and Western medicine kind of feeds into this, when you have pain in the body, a lot of times people see the pain as the villain, you see yourself as the victim of it, and you look for the medication or the supplement or the healer or whatever as the rescuer, right? Or you look at any industry that's trying to sell you something,

whatever the problem is, you have a headache, you're depressed, you're not happy. The symptom is the villain. You're the victim of it. And this solution that I'm selling you is the rescuer, right? If we look at the pandemic, the virus was the villain. We were all the victims of it. And this solution that I'm

handing you is the rescuer. So you see how this trinity of archetypes is literally woven into the fabric of our society, the fabric of our psyche. And a lot of the ways in which certain industries or authorities like to take advantage of this is by appealing to that trinity of archetypes whether they know they're doing it or not that's actually what's happening on an archetypal level so another reason i love archetypes is you can see past a lot of the bullshit because you see all these patterns unfolding in the world on an archetypal level therefore you don't take it personally and you're also not reacting to it in the way that you would if you were unconscious of a lot of these archetypes that's huge yeah and you know right as you're talking about that trinity the first thing that popped in was david ike problem reaction

solution which is which is exactly how you word it, just different language for the same thing, problem, reaction, solution. And man, you know, it's funny. I broke my neck in 2012 and I hadn't seen a chiropractor in a while and it just started hurting again. And I fucking, I bit hook, line and sinker. Like the pain is the villain is, is the villain. And, uh, and I'm the victim for having this stupid asshole injury to work through and I'll find the cure with a new chiropractor. So as you were saying that, I was like, damn dude, hook, line and sinker. I just bit it again. Um, but I think what, what you're speaking to on a, on a deeper level, which is so awesome

is kind of the building blocks of consciousness. Right. And so if we think, you know, I started thinking about this through cycles of time, if, um, where they say time, time or history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Right. So as we cycle through the spiral, you know, a lot of these things come back and, uh, looking into, and I'm forgetting the guy's uh name he created a computer called socrates armstrongeconomics.com i'll link to this in the show notes i'll also link to mark wallen's book if anybody can unpack that a little bit too um the armstrong economics he has he's created a first machine learning system that would map cycles of war cycles of solar cycles of of uh

you know ups and downs for economic cycles and all these things then he started to play it and what he found was that the pie ran on 3146 days like to the t but where these intersect is where we would have major world events to the t of like 9 11 they didn't know the twin towers were going down but they said a major world event major catastrophe right this computer understood that and uh it's been around for what's a fascinating fascinating story he did a documentary that i'll find and throw in here as well but to me it's kind of on one hand it's like god are we just we are we just living through like these these patterns you know like without without without any clue what to do. But I think, you know, the masters, even in the Kabbalion, the masters are the ones who can witness that.

They understand where we're heading. And they're not set to the wind. They're not set to the waves of the ocean, right? They hold steady through no matter what's happening around them. And you're basically saying the same thing through archetypes, right? And that if we understand archetypes, we're no longer at the whim of what's happening in our lives, what's happening to us. We're no longer at the whim of what's happening in society, because we can see it a little bit more clearly. It's like being able to peek behind the curtain

and say, okay, this is what's going on right now. And where do I want to be in that? How do I want to be in that? How do I want to show up now? Yeah, and you realize that nothing's personal because when you see things archetypally, you see things as collective patterns, right? So even in your own intimate relationships, when you can see the archetypes playing themselves out, you don't take things as personally, which is why I think archetypes

are a beautiful way of doing relationship work. You and Natasha both did your archetype wheels, right? So you can actually see the archetypes that are interacting with one another and therefore you can engage relationship work, for example, with a little bit more detachment, because you could look at the archetypal patterns without taking things as personal attacks. And the victim triangle, for example, is one of the most common things that shows up

in relationships where someone's the villain, I'm the victim of your attack or your words or whatever it is, and this is the rescuer. This is what I'm going to reach to to find some relief or whatever it might be. But what's really interesting when it comes to the victim triangle, coming back to that for a moment, is all of those archetypes need one another. So even the victim, if you identify as the victim, you actually have an intimate relationship with the villain to the point where you need them to be the villain. Because if there's no villain anymore, there's no victim.

So for example, a lot of what was going on in israel like last year for my family stirred up a lot and there almost became like this obsession around the villain because of how much as jews we've identified as the victim and i was i remember talking to my mom about this and i'm like what if there's a part of us that actually doesn't want the villain to go away? Like in a very subtle, unconscious way, there's a part of us that actually needs the villain to have a villain is we have to step out of our own victimhood, right? In order for me to be a rescuer, a lot of people identify as the rescuer, is the rescuer needs the victim to be powerless. Because as soon as the victim steps into their power, there's no need for a rescuer anymore. You know, I remember speaking of relationship work, when I came into relationship with my partner, she was going through a divorce with her ex-husband,

who was the parent or the father of their children. And on some level, she, I, whoever like painted the picture that like he was the villain. And therefore like she and the kids were the victims of whatever his thing was. And therefore I was the rescuer. But I realized as long as I was playing the role of the rescuer, I was keeping them trapped in the victim and projecting him into the darkness of the villain.

And it wasn't until I met the parts of me that were similar to the villain. Was I able to actually heal my attachment to the rescuer? Right? So you see how all of these, these three architects, they're so intimate with one another and they actually need each other to play their role so even though you're projecting the one called the villain as the villain and you feel like oh like i want that

thing to go away or that person to go away is if you're in your own victimhood you're still energetically unconsciously kind of doing this dance with them and you actually need them to be as they are. Right? So it's so very subtle and nuanced, which is why understanding these dynamics is so essential to creating liberation and creating a sense of freedom to engage relationships from your own power. And the victim is really your relationship with your own power. And if we look at also a lot of what's going on in the world, and a lot of this is kind of like some of the controversial stuff with like the gender ideology and this and that, where everyone is so sensitive. Everyone gets, what's the word I'm looking for? Triggered. Triggered so easily.

Everyone gets offended so easily. That's the victim archetype. And the victim, one of my favorite ways to describe the victim is the victim plays a powerless role as a means of gaining power and control. There's the paradox. As you play a powerless role, I was the hurt child with the injury to gain power and control, right? There's the paradox. As you play a powerless role, I was the hurt child with the injury to gain power and control because now I can manipulate my father and his partners and nurses for me to get my emotional needs met. Or we gain a sense of significance by playing a

powerless role, right? So you see how there's so much what's called secondary game in playing these powerless roles that we're subtly getting power and control by playing this powerless role, which is the paradox of it all, which is why exploring these archetypes is so essential to healing because you don't realize that

whatever your crisis is, whatever your pain is, whatever the suffering that you're experiencing in your life is, a lot of times on some level, there's some part of you that's gaining something from it. There's some part of you that's benefiting from it. And there's some part of you that doesn't want to let go of it because of whatever the story or narrative we're running or whatever way in which we're benefiting from it. So that's where if you look collectively and then you look personally, they're always mirroring each other, right?

That victim triangle out in the world, you can find that inside of you. The saboteur, the prostitute out in the world, you can find that inside of you, right? So that's why the language of archetypes is so beautiful. And a lot of your work too, and your deep dive into plant medicine, one thing that I've come to realize recently is medicine speaks archetypally. Like when you're seeing all the visions, when you're on psilocybin or ayahuasca, and you're

getting a lot of these different visions, whether it's energy or animals or different figures or beings that's all those are all archetypes so if you understand archetypes it makes it so much easier to decode the messages that medicine is teaching you right so understanding archetypes is amazing for the medicine world as well. Yeah, it's kind of like, I mean, in a lot of ways, Godsey, my partner in crime at Fit for Service, talks similarly about dreams. Dreams speak with symbols and speak with archetypes. And doing work to unpack that with the archetypes

not only helps you to better understand what your psyche is trying to tell you in your sleep each night, but it'll also do the same for ceremonies as well. And it could be, you know, a breathwork ceremony, holotropic. I've had deep visions on just breath, but an altered state of consciousness, you know, there's a depth necessary to reach that point. And that could come through a variety of means. But yeah, I found that to be incredibly important. You know, one of the things that you're talking about made me really think of this on this victim triangle is just how much in the last, you know, it's funny because it was like victim as society, they closed the fucking world down. They hurt a ton of people.

And then, you know know the villain is still there right we still got bill gates in the world talking about disease x we've still got claude schwab talking about cyber polygon and how the grid's going to go down or whatever you know it's going to make covid look like a walk in the park all these people as old as they are still exist and still and still uh appear to be pulling strings and kind of making world events take place. But with that, there's a certain level of fear and a certain level of fuck that, right? Where the rebel has to go into action.

And that's really one of the reasons we have this farm. It's one of the reasons we've started growing our own food. It's one of the reasons we've done so much. And I've come to a place of having gratitude for the fear. You know, like gratitude for the fear because fear was uniquely one thing that would light a fire under my ass on a timetable quickest, right?

Like these are things that I wanted for myself, but it was always way off when. And this became a now thing because of the world events in 2020. And so again, I feel incredibly blessed to have listened to that calling and in answering that calling, no longer the victim, because I've now taken, you know, what was, what was in front of me and said, how can I make this better? Let's, let's check these

boxes and see where it lands. And now I sleep like a baby at night. Doesn't mean the world's going to be perfect. Doesn't mean the grid, the lights are going to stay on um but i certainly feel better especially as a father and a provider knowing you know what i've carved out for myself and for my tribe and uh and with a lot of help from other people as well but that's been something that that i've it's almost a mind fuck in a way where it's like but all this stuff and then like well but it led to all these things you know it led to so much beauty. And kind of like, you know, the hard trips, the bad trips, as I say that in air quotes, are often the most transformative, the best ones where you come out of that like, why did that happen to me? And a month later, you're like, damn, that was so important that happened to me. You know, there's no real way to explain it.

Which begs the question, is the villain really a villain or is it really an ally in disguise that's initiating change action and some sort of evolution where without the villain we would have never had the inspiration to make that change or to build the farm or whatever it might be. So you realize that on a divine level, a lot of these archetypal roles are all actually perfect. Like they're all happening perfectly, and they need each other to support one another. And, you know, we don't want disasters, we don't want crisis, we don't want bad things to happen, but if there were no fires, then firefighters would be out of a job. You know, like Osho says, if there were no criminals, then policemen would be out of a job. So each archetypal role needs one another

for itself to find purpose and meaning, right? If you really wanted to be a firefighter, you would kind of be disappointed if you took the job and there was never a fire in your career, right? So each archetype kind of, this is why Caroline Miss talks about these are contracts. They're all contractual agreements. The victim and the rescuer have a contractual agreement. The damsel and the knight have a contractual agreement. The mother and the child have a contractual agreement. So these are all agreements that we made consciously or unconsciously. And that's also something that's quite significant with these archetypes is we do make archetypal agreements consciously and we also make them unconsciously. And it's the

unconscious agreements or contracts that we need to heal in order for us to move forward. For example, I chose to be a healer, coach, therapist, whatever archetypal term you want to use for my career. That was a conscious choice. I'm like, yes, I want to do that. That's going to be what I'm going to do. I have the healer in my first house. So I very much identified consciously as that role. But when I was a child, and let's say I needed to become a people pleaser, because pleasing others allowed me to control their experience of me so I didn't get judged, rejected, abandoned, or persecuted. So that's the prostitute archetype, which is that need to always please everybody. That was a contract I made unconsciously.

I didn't wake up one day and consciously be like, all right, today I'm going to just please everybody because that's how I feel safe, that's how I feel in control. And that's how I get my emotional needs met. No, it just happens. So you see, those are the patterns that were unconscious contracts that now need to be renegotiated and reworked. And those are the ones that become a detriment to our health. That's where we exchange our health and vitality for safety and security, right? So you see with archetypes, you have conscious contracts. I'm going to be a firefighter. I'm going to be a healer. I'm going to be a coach. I'm going to be a podcaster. Those are all archetypes. Unconscious contracts. This is what I have to do. This is who

I have to be for my own survival. Right? So they're all agreements. Every part of you, every role that you're playing in your life is an agreement that you made either consciously or unconsciously. And that's really why understanding these archetypes is so essential to coming to know yourself. I love that. I'd love to talk a little bit. You know, one of the things that I've been thinking about this entire podcast and its importance is something that I've been chewing on for at least the last couple of years you know I read it first in Gene Keys which is a an awesome book by Richard Rudd I had Dr. or not Dr. but I had Richard Rudd on the podcast probably a year ago

and he said, you know, and this is counterintuitive to the human design guy who he had worked so closely with that kind of has a vision of humanity's future is pretty dark and grim. His is all, you know, rainbows and butterflies and awesome shit. So I was like, if I had to choose, I'm going to side with Richard on this one because it, it, it, uh, I like the light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. But one of the things

he said is that we're in a period now of a great change and that's obvious, right? It's not like he, he didn't have to do research to figure that piece out, you know, but what he said is in order to get to where we're going, all of humanity is going to have alchemy with the victim archetype. All of us will move, we will move with it and through it. And I found that to be just, wow, okay. So I'd love, you know, if we take that as a yes, and maybe this is something that we can never extract ourselves from or get rid of, maybe it's inherently in humanity until the end.

But what do you think are the necessary steps to really unpack the victim archetype and use it as one of our greatest allies? Well, the victim relates to your relationship with boundaries. So if you ask yourself, when do I feel victimized? Well, you feel victimized when someone is crossing a boundary. If someone's physically attacking you, that's a physical boundary being crossed. You feel like a victim. If someone's emotionally attacking you, you feel like an emotional victim, right? If someone you feel like is energetically attacking you or crossing a

boundary, you feel energetically like a victim. So really the victim shows up whenever we feel like a boundary is being crossed. So one of the first steps to explore healing the victim is where do I need to establish stronger boundaries? Like you were saying with the victim and the villain and how that inspired you to build the farm and move your family to this safe container, you're creating a boundary of like, this is our land. This is our farm. We grow our food. We have our animals. You're creating a boundary that allows you to feel safe. And if anyone comes and crosses that boundary, I'm sure you and a bunch of others are going to be there to reestablish the boundary in whatever way necessary. So healing the victim archetype is really about reinstating the

boundaries where necessary. And one thing I love is what Zach Bush speaks of, which is the internal boundaries in the body. Like the gut, for example, being an internal boundary or border or barrier between in the gut, what's not you, on the other side of the gut lining, what is you, and leaky gut being a breakdown in boundaries. You have a leaky gut. Now you have food particles, bacteria getting into the general circulation, now your immune system comes and attacks it, and now your immune system doesn't have the capacity to differentiate what's you and what's not you, right? So healing the victim is also about reinstating boundaries so you can differentiate what's you and what's not you. What's my emotions and what's your emotions? A lot of empaths don't

have the capacity to differentiate their emotions from other people's emotions. So that leads to the victim and the rescuer. Now I need to rescue someone else from their emotions so I can no longer have to feel my emotions. So you see how it's all about boundaries to be able to reinstate the sense of self of this is me separate from you. Now, yes, the grand scheme of things, separateness or individuality is an illusion. But in this human experience, we actually need to reinstate it. Right. So the first step to healing the victim is reinstating boundaries wherever they've been broken down, both externally and in the body. A lot of people feel overly sensitive to their environment when they have leaky gut. Why? Because their immune system's overactive, their body's inflamed, and all of a sudden they feel like a

victim to the environment because they have a leaky gut in their body, they have a breakdown in boundaries in their body. So their immune system on a cellular biological level is not able to differentiate self from other. Right? So you see how your realm is physical health. Actually healing the gut can be an essential piece of healing the victim archetype. Because it's reestablishing a boundary, differentiating self from other. The other piece is understanding that each victim has a survival strategy. So understanding your inner victim survival

strategy is absolutely essential. For example, my survival strategy when I felt victimized was always to shut down, to avoid, to escape, right? To disconnect, right? If you look at attachment styles, I have a very avoidant attachment style. Whenever there's conflict, I tend to avoid, I tend to disconnect. I tend to shut down. So that's how my inner victim protects me from being victimized. Other people, it might be different, right? So understanding your unique survival strategy as the victim is absolutely essential. The other piece is asking yourself, well, what part of me is benefiting by playing the victim?

If you look at a lot of what's going on in the world with gender ideology and religion and politics and all of it, everyone getting offended and being so sensitive. And a lot of it is I want to feel a sense of significance. I want to feel a sense of power. And the way I'm going to do that is by playing a powerless role, right? So you ask yourself, what is the secondary gain in playing the victim? Right? You have to ask yourself, who am I projecting as the villain? And then ask yourself, is that really true? Are they really the villain? If you see life happening to you in some way, always classically ask yourself, how has this happened for me? Right? So there's so many ways in which

you can work with the victim archetype, but the essential pieces are number one, where do I need better boundaries? Number two, what is my survival strategy? Where did I learn to play the victim? And what did I have to do to feel safe? Number three is what's the secondary gain? How have I benefited from playing the victim? Maybe I got more love from my parents when I was the victim. Maybe I got recognition. A lot of people get recognition for their illnesses, right? I know a lot of people with Lyme disease, Crohn's disease that start a foundation. They raise money, they get awards. So if you're getting rewards for an illness, there's a part of your identity that's invested

in the illness because it associates it with reward and recognition. Now that's very different than you overcoming it and you becoming the victor rather than the victim. But a lot of people stay trapped in the victim role because of the secondary gain, because of the benefits they're getting from it. And then the last piece is, like I was saying, how is this situation happening for me, which is something that we classically hear all the time, not happening to me, but happening for me. And I think those are, in the course we go into quite a bit more, but those are some of the essential pieces. The last piece I'll say is the rescuer and the martyr are deeply connected to the victim.

So you have this contractual agreement between rescuer and victim. And a lot of times you go back and forth between the two. So for example, a victim's looking to be rescued, a rescuer is looking to save a victim. But a lot of times the rescuer goes above and beyond to rescue the victim. And when you're trying to rescue a victim, you also have a tendency to take on their stuff. That's the difference between a healer and a rescuer. When someone says, maybe they're doing energy work or working with a client, they're saying, I'm taking on their energy. Healers don't take on energy.

Rescuers take on energy. Healers do not take something away from someone. Healers empower the person to become a healer themselves. A rescuer tries to take away someone's pain, and now all of a sudden they're swallowing it themselves. It's like the classic shaman that would suck something out of someone's body and then the shaman would die or the shaman would have to like throw up or do whatever. You could say that's healing, but that's actually rescuing, right? That's not actually empowering the client or the person to become a healer or to understand their pain or to understand themselves.

That's just taking someone's pain away, right? So the rescuer then, as soon as they start taking on that which they're taking away from another, now they start to feel like a victim. Or maybe they exhausted themselves trying to rescue someone and now they feel victimized. Now they look to be rescued. So you see how the victim and rescuer are always swapping roles. Also the martyr, like we were

talking about earlier, the self-sacrifice, this old belief system that doing for others at the expense of yourself is a noble thing to do. But the truth is, if you're doing for others at the expense of yourself and you're left depleted, you're going to feel like a victim. Like how many people say, I don't have enough time to exercise. I don't have enough time to meditate. I'm always doing for everyone else. And I, you know, my job, my work, that's the victim, right? But that's coming from the place of martyrdom, which is self-sacrifice, but as a form of

self-victimization, right? So it's a misinterpretation of the teaching. So the rescuer, the martyr are the two archetypes that are not survival archetypes, but they're very interwoven into the victim dynamic. So you have to be careful with playing the rescuer or playing the martyr because eventually you'll end up in the victim role. I love that. Yeah. And the martyr is a creepy one. I mean, I think it's easy to spot if you, you know, my mother-in-law is super religious and, you know, fundamentalist Christian.

And it's like I can see that all over the place from a mile away and in different places. But it's a nefarious one because that's kind of the old societal contract we had as a country and a people. I'll work my ass off and retire. And then when I retire, I'll be happy when I make this amount of money and I'll be happy then. I'm going to buy this house, the white picket fence, the two dogs, the whatever, and then I'll be happy then instead of taking a portion of your day of multiple portions of your day and instilling the things that bring you joy every day. This is why I absolutely love the podcast we did on the spirit wheel, the seasons in a day, rather than just the annual season, taking the annual season, bringing those into a day and a quick refresh, summer being

work, winter being sleep. Where is your spring and your fall? What does that actually look like? That's such a massive, massive thing that those building blocks kind of rechanged the way that I view my daily schedule and reality. So love that from you. There's so much there. I know we can keep going, but that's awesome. I love everything that you're doing. I can't wait to dive deeply into this. Where can people get a hold of you? Where can people take this course? So my home base is healing4d.com. That's the number 4d.com. So they can reach out to me if they're interested in one-on-one coaching. Also my programs, Healing the Mind, A Journey to Wholeness, which we've done a podcast on, is healing4d.com forward slash HTM. And this new course, Healing Your Core Archetypes, A Journey of Empowerment, is healing4d.com forward slash HCA. So Healing Core Archetypes save 20% off on their enrollments in the program.

And they can also stay tuned in probably towards the end of the summer. Not sure when this is going to come out, but I'm going to be offering like an eight-week live group coaching going through the archetypes. So people can take the program themselves. They can go through all the pre-recorded videos, the seven archetypes, which is really powerful and use the code Kyle20. And then also in the near future, I'm going to have some live group coaching

that we're going to do a lot of this work together. So we'll stay tuned for that. So cool, brother. Thank you again for coming on. We'll keep running it back. Whenever you got something on the way, I'm happy to have you on, dude. I love getting to podcast with you

and learn from you, Greg. It's awesome. And thank you for continuing to do such great work in the world. Thanks for having me on, man. It was awesome. Thank you.