Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #358 The Fourth Face of Eros - Wholeness w/ Marc Gafni Part VI

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

Today Marc gives us as deep a dive as anyone can on Wholeness, the fourth face of Eros. He shows us how Metatron is weaved into this lesson as well. This one is a super treat to absorb. Listen, re-listen, share it far and wide and let’s discuss!   Fit For Service trimester one was absolute fire! The Physically fit cohort got totally dialed in and then cut it up together at the feet of the grandfather mountains of Montana. I’m looking forward to some fresh faces for this next trimester and meeting y’all in Sedona this Autumn. Head over to Fit For Service website and sign up for anything you’re looking for in life. See ya soon   Marc’s Books: A Return to Eros(paperback) A Return to Eros(audiobook) The Erotic and the Holy Your Unique Self Soul Prints: Your Path to Fulfillment Self In Integral Evolutionary Mysticism  NEW BOOK "First Principles and First Values" -David J Temple    Show Notes: KKP #353 First Principles and First Values w/ Marc Gafni Spotify Apple     Connect with Marc: Website: MarcGafni.com  Instagram: @marcgafni Facebook: Dr Marc Gafni X: @marcgafni Substack: Marc Gafni YouTube: Dr Marc Gafni Medium: Office For The Future Sponsors: Lumen If you want to take the next step in improving your health, go to Lumen.me  and use KKP to get $100 off your Lumen.  Lucy Go to lucy.co and use codeword “KKP” at Checkout to get 20% off the best nicotine gum in the game, or check out their lozenge. Fat of the Land Go to www.eatfatoftheland.com to buy some delicious seed oil free chips and use code “KKP” for 10% off at checkout.  That is www.eatfatoftheland.com using code KKP for 10% off at checkout. Organifi Go to organifi.com/kkp to get my favorite way to easily get the most potent blend of high vibration fruits, veggies and other goodies into your diet! Click that link and use code “KKP” at checkout for 20% off your order! To Work With Kyle Kingsbury Podcast   Connect with Kyle: Twitter: @KINGSBU  Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Instagram: @livingwiththekingsburys - @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyles website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site    Like and subscribe to the podcast anywhere you can find podcasts. Leave a 5-star review and let me know what resonates or doesn’t.

Welcome back to a very special series that I get to be a part of with Dr. Mark Gaffney. We are on episode six of 14, even though we're doing 15 this year, the 15th, I guess. It's not in that order, but one of these is for First Principles and First Values, an excellent book, which I'll link to in the show notes on each and every one of these. That's Mark's latest with Dr. Zach Stein and Ken Wilber under the pseudonym David J. Temple. We did a podcast on that I'll link to in the show notes. But this series, and that flows with this, but this series is really about a book called A Return to Eros. And what are the 12 faces of Eros? If you are unfamiliar with this, if it's your first episode,

it is pretty wise to go back and start with the beginning of this series. The first two episodes of which we really dive into what is Eros? Why does this matter? And in the grand scheme of things, from the interiors to the exteriors, from the soft sciences to the hard sciences, how does consciousness work? And is there an ought? Is there an ought to? And Mark is, I mean, I can say so many things about him. I think in our first episode, which we did over a year ago, it's a great one because we really get to know Mark and what he's about and

what he's been studying. But he is for sure one of my favorite guests I've ever had. I feel absolutely honored and thrilled that I get to do this series with him because I'm learning as we go. And what's unique about these, I mean, I'm generally more of an interviewer than a conversationalist, if that's a word. I lean more towards the Tim Ferriss style than the Rogan style when I'm interviewing people. And I do like to chime in.

On these, you don't hear much of a peep from me. The reason for that is these are meant to be short. They're meant to chime in on these. You don't hear much of a peep from me. The reason for that is these are meant to be short. They're meant to be about 45 minutes and really direct deep downloads on what, what is this face of Eros that we're breaking down that, that Dr. Mark is breaking down. So consider it a lecture series. This is educational, but very practical and valuable in how we apply this to our lives. And, you know, in so many of the stories, especially as Mark dives into in the, in the episode we did on first principles and first values, humanity is in need of a new story

to solve the issues of the meta crisis and not just the loss of humanity, which, which we've talked about, but the loss of our humanity, which I think is far more pressing. I don't think we're all going to go up in a puff of flames from a nuke. I don't think the seas are going to boil over and we're going to have no water, whatever the case is the UN's throwing at us right now with climate change. But there is a very real chance that we lose our humanity in a one world government, totalitarian dictatorship, however you want to look at that, New World Order. If you've been listening to this podcast, you know I've really, really put some information out there that is awakening and kind of hard to say yes to, but validated. And so this new story becomes incredibly important for us.

And a piece of that story, one of the biggest underpinnings of that story is how we understand consciousness itself. And that's what these podcasts are about. What are the 12 faces of Eros? How do we work with them? How do we utilize them and cultivate them so that we live an erotic life and that we live the best life possible?

And we give that back to the divine. And this episode is about wholeness. The fourth face of Eros is wholeness. And I had asked Mark a question about Metatron. Who was Metatron? I kept thinking about this because I've heard Metatron loosely from back in the day. I've heard one of the pieces of sacred geometry that I've been drawn to most is Metatron's cube. And I've, I've got a couple, you know, elementary art pieces where I've worked with that and I'm very drawn to it. And so I asked him that and then, you know, Mark's such a damn busy guy. He's like tonight, I'll get it to you tonight. You know,

he's like three days later, Oh, Cha, Kyle, my love, I'll get it to you by the end of the day, you know? And then finally, uh, we get, we had the episode lined up and he goes, he goes, we're going to get to it today. And I was like, Oh, interesting in the episode. So I was taking notes when he was, when he was talking about this, this is a podcast I will listen, re-listen to at least another time or two. Um, fucking awesome is the way that it made me feel when he pieces these things together in a way that, that actually is, is incredibly meaningful and it has been my trajectory, you know?

I think, you know, anybody that starts to make some serious shifts in their life and can see radical improvement and radical change understands understands that transformation is possible. And it's, you know, don't get me wrong. There's plenty of people, and Mark mentions this as well, you can get hooked on the medicine path and just keep going back to the wishing well, never having really improved your life. That's an unfortunate piece of that equation.

But for those of us who work with medicines with respect and reverence and give enough space in between those journeys, or find different ways, different modes of altered states of consciousness through meditation, through darkness, through fasting, through breath work. Many paths lead up the mountain, but in some combination of these things and in the application of what those downloads are, the application of that to our lives, we're able to see some significant changes and feel the improved version of ourselves, right? And not just in our own minds, but in the hearts of those that were around. There's no greater report card than having your parents look at you and say like, what's different about you? You seem happier.

You seem brighter. You're less negative. You're whatever the say like, what's different about you? You seem happier. You seem brighter. You're less negative. You're whatever the fuck they see that's different. And that's transformation. And transformation is evolution. That's exactly how Mark points it out. If he said, if somebody put a gun to his head and said, tell me what evolution is, he'd say a series of transformations.

And you're going to see how that folds in with Metatron or Meditron as he calls it. This is absolutely awesome. Leave us a five-star review with one or two ways the show's helped you out in life. Share this with friends. This is about consciousness. This is about God. This is about psychology. This is about us. This is about how humanity works. What is our relationship with the world? What is, why are we here? This is about all that stuff. So I couldn't be happier with the way this series has turned out. And oddly enough, it seems like Mark's just getting started. And I think he is just getting started because every time we rabbit hole one of these faces, he takes me a little bit deeper into my own understanding and a little bit deeper into how I, what is the framework of

what we're doing here? What is the framework of our own understanding of consciousness? And I, I really just beyond words and saying how much I love Mark and appreciate his work. All right. Support our sponsors. They make this show fiscally possible. I love these guys. I'm working with these guys. I have a new, new sponsor called Lumen that I'm working with for a couple of months now. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And on the app, it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, workout, sleep, and even stress management. All you have to do is breathe into your Lumen first thing in the morning, and you'll know what's going on in your metabolism, whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs.

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going to do starts in about a month. We're going to finish that trimester off in Sedona with another five-day blast. This is the first time we're offering online only. So if you're listening overseas and you're like, well, that's nice. You never come to Europe or you never come to Australia. You can take the online only for as low as $1,500. And if you want to come to the whole shebang, we've got exclusive discounts right now. Check it out. Fit for service.com. This will change your fucking life. I guarantee it without further ado, my brother, my teacher, my mentor, Dr. Mark Gaffney. Cha. Cha. It is good to see you, Kyle.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I've been patiently waiting for this podcast and also patiently waiting to hear back on Metatron. So very, very excited to see you, brother. And maybe we might not get into Metatron just due to, you know. Oh, we might. Metatron is connected to our fourth face of eros let's go let's go let's go let's go it's great to see you man and and there's like a little oh that's a beautiful child just open the door behind you you just the door just open and you just feel like the face of the goddess the face of the goddess

the face of the goddess is yay that might have goddess. The face of the goddess it is. Yay. That might have been my daughter or it might have been my niece, but they're both just absolutely stunning. Yay. Blessings to the goddess. So here we are. We're in this book, A Return to Eros, which is the book we're looking at, which is essentially, if there's one book I'd ask someone to read to get a sense of the answer to two questions, where are we? Where do we live? What's the nature

of the universe we live in? And two, the derivative question from where are we is, who are we? It's where am I? Where are we? It's an I question. It's a we question. And then it's, who am I? Or, you know, as that song many years ago from the Four Non-Blondes, which was like, what's going on? It's a great song, right?

What's going on, right? Like, which is another way of saying saying like, where the fuck are we? And who the fuck are we? And who the fuck am I? Right, and fuck adds something to that sentence, right? Meaning it's not a casual sentence. It's like, it's a morally urgent question. It's an aesthetically urgent question.

It's a psychologically urgent question. It's a politically urgent question. It's a spiritually urgent question. It's a politically urgent question. It's a spiritually urgent question. And I could go on and on. It's urgent on all those levels, but it's not urgent in a kind of lethal or deadly way. We're afraid of urgency. We want to be spacious. No, but there's a kind of ecstatic urgency, right? There's an ecstatic urgency, which is the urgency that we talked about in the face of Eros, which we did, I believe, as the second face of Eros, which is the face of yearning and desire. It's the same static urgency. So there's an ecstatic urgency to know who am I, right? Where am I and what ought I do? What should be done?

I spend a weekend, maybe it was maybe a couple of years ago when Av and I first met Aubrey and we were walking around, where were we in Coconut Grove in Miami? And I was talking to him about these three questions, which are the kind of the three great questions of Averroes, of cosmorotic humanism, which is this new story of value, right? Where, who, and what? Now, we're looking at that, brother, through the prism of these 12 faces of Eros.

And we've done two introductory sessions on the relationship between, first of all, what is Eros? Relationship to the erotic and the sexual. two introductory sessions on the relationship between, first of all, what is Eros, relationship to the erotic and the sexual, what does Eros, sex, and love have to do with each other, our first couple of conversations, and then we did the first three faces of Eros. Once we established something about Eros and its relationship to the sexual, the sexual models the erotic, we said. It doesn't exhaust the erotic. There are 12 billion years of eros before sex. Eros is, and we'll talk about what eros is again today. But we're looking at eros in each of our conversations now through 12 different doors,

12 different qualities of the erotic, 12 different tastes of the erotic. And as we said at the outset, reality is eros. So knowing that, and I participate in that field of Eros. So knowing what Eros is, is knowing the answer to who, who am I? I participate in the field of Eros to where I am in the field of Eros. I'm in the cosmorotic universe. And what ought I do? What Eros commands me.

I ought to do what Eros commands me. It's deep. And one of the things we're going to kind of, you know, come to today in our short conversation is this actual understanding that there's no split between Eros and ethics. Right? You know, we think, oh, God, we got to be ethical, so we can't be erotic.

No, no, no. Eros and ethics are one. They're utterly inseparable from each other. So our fourth face of Eros, drum roll. Okay. And that was just, you know, everybody, if you've been here before, you know, we do the introduction just so we can kind of

just find our way. We can kind of just get the fragrance of where we are. And if you're new, if this is the first podcast, that won't have satisfied you fully, right? We're actually, we're just alluding to, you know, prior understandings and conversations. So if we can, to send you back to the first five conversations and you'll get a sense of what's there, okay? So the fourth face of the erotic of eros is wholeness with a W, right? Not wholeness with a W, the whole, right? It's wholeness and interconnectivity,

wholeness and intimacy. But let's make wholeness our face of eros. Now, when we're talking about wholeness, right? I mean, the first thing to say is, is I feel a part. A part, a part. I feel like I'm a part. I'm a part.

That's the beginning. My actual experience of reality is I'm a part. But a part is not just a sense of alienation. Oh, I feel a part. I'm a part from everyone. It's a part, literally. I'm part of, meaning I participate in. So we live in a, John Archibald Wheeler wrote a participatory universe. He's talking with the perspective of physics and both in the exterior and the interior physics of reality. And I say that not lightly because let me just make a little bracket here.

There's an enormous amount of new age nonsense, right, that kind of appropriates physics inappropriately. That's not what we're talking about. So when we talk about a relationship between, you know, interior physics, the interiors of reality and exteriors, we're talking about something very fundamental. Reality is interiors and exteriors all the way up and all the way down the evolutionary chain. That's a big sentence. Now, there's not like a top and a bottom. There's an interior and an exterior. It's very deep. It's very deep. It seems like, what the fuck are we saying? Why do we care? Why are we talking about this? Well,

in the old world of the great chain of being, there was like at the bottom is matter, at the top is spirit. So it's matter, and then it's kind of, you know, body, and then it's kind of mind, and then it's soul, and then it's spirit. Let's say one version of the great chain. So spirit's on top, matter's at the bottom. And that great chain got shattered in a couple of fundamental ways when we realized, oh, okay, but why is it then that when I'm afraid, which is an interior experience, it affects, I break out in a sweat, affects my body, my exterior. So if spirit's on top and matters at the bottom, why do they affect each other? You know, if I can just talk about one of the most recent developments, you know, what was it in the mid, God, mid 80s, was it the mid, late 80s

when psychoneuroimmunology explodes into reality, which was the relationship between the hypothalamus and the neocortex, right, the amygdala, right? How interiors affect exteriors and exteriors affect interiors. And that's when, you know, one of the ways that popped in culture was in Harvard, they had an entire clinic talking about the relationship between mind and body. And we began to understand that in terms of healing, there's this relationship and it was, oh, okay, matter affects interiors or spirit. So it's not that matter's at the bottom and spirit's at the top.

No, not exactly. It's actually, instead of matter and spirit, let's call it interiors and exteriors, all the way up and all the way down. It's always interior and exterior. It's a better way to look at reality. It's a better way to look at reality. It's a much deeper way. So reality by its nature has an interior quality called eros, which has a quality, it's a taste, it's a feeling, and it plays, it lives in the interior face of cosmos and yet affects everything because it generates and it animates all the exteriors. So all of the four forces, the electromagnetic and the gravitational, the strong and the weak nuclear,

they're all animated by Eros. It's not that Eros is a fifth force, as they were thinking about it at the Santa Fe Institute back in the day. No, Eros animates the whole thing. And it's all Eros. The ground is eros. And eros both is that which animates the self-actualizing cosmos. We live in a self-actualizing cosmos. It's inherently self-actualizing because you have this quality of eros,

which is driving towards self-organizing towards wholeness. I want to be whole, right? In other words, and that experience of being whole lives in quarks. If it's an up quark, you know, in the three quarks, up quark in a particular way, you get a proton, down quark, right? Whether it's an up quark or down quark in the particular configuration yields a proton and a neutron. Proton neutrons hang out together right after the Big Bang. And then it's 380,000 years later, we throw in a whole set of electrons. And again, I'm talking kind of very loosely here. And then you got protons, neutrons, and electrons, right, generate this new hole called

an atom. Why they do that, right? In other words, if you would sit and look at the cosmos and you would actually, and there's pure nothingness, and then you would tell someone sitting at the coffee table next to you, this is Howard Bloom's image. It's kind of like a scientific guru figure in NASA, right? You're sitting at a coffee table as it were, right? Two dudes sitting at a coffee table and you tell the dude next to you, hey, there's going to be time and space. It's like you're out of your fucking mind, right? And there's time and space and speed, right? And then ultimately you've got these subatomic particles and gazillions of quarks,

but there's only 16 different kinds. And then you say these quarks, protons, neutrons, right? The electrons are going to get added in this entirely new quality. It's going to enter the cosmos. It simply doesn't exist called an atom. You're crazy. And there's zero. So why does cosmos do that? Because there's this alluring force in cosmos. And it's very deep, right? The second face of our eyes we talked about is yearning or desire. So that's the movement towards. But the other face, if you will, of yearning desire is wholeness. And wholeness allures. I'm allured to wholeness. So it's not just that I have a desire for wholeness, which I do, I have a desire to be whole, but there's some sense, this is subtle, it's beautiful. There's this quality of wholeness that allures, right? So think about a beautiful,

a beautiful poem, a beautiful woman, a beautiful man, right? You know, let's say I have a beautiful woman who's 97 years old, who has the most stunning radiant eyes and this kind of, this kind of sense of just immense gorgeousness in the surround her. And your eyes are just, are just allured to look at her. Right. That's all right. There's a, so wholeness has this allurement. I'm allured. Reality is governed by allurement and I'm allured to wholeness. I don't want to just be a part. I want to participate in the whole, which is my identity. So, you know, we mentioned this in passing before. So there I am, you know, Tom Hanks, and I'm on the movie Castaway, and I'm on my island by myself,

and I've got all my near Darwinian needs met, and yet I'm not hanging out. I got 1% chance of surviving the raging ocean. I have no idea how to build a raft, but I do it anyways. And I tie myself to a raft and throw myself in the ocean because I don't want to be apart. I want to move towards this larger wholeness. And so loneliness is the experience of being apart. That's the experience of being lonely. The experience of being lonely is the sense that I'm not part of, right? I'm alienated from. I'm not intimate with.

And so this desire to become part of the whole, but not to be absorbed into the whole, and this is where it gets very beautiful. I don't want to be absorbed. So the shadow version of becoming part of the whole is the cult or the totalitarian state, which both express wholeness as a pre-personal wholeness. Let me be part of the cult. We are not a cult, right? Let's not do that, right? Let me be part of the totalitarian state in which the state, the wholeness, is the only true reality, fascism, or communism in multiple forms. Check out the CRP.

There's the Chinese Communist Party, CCP. So let's get our initials straight. There's the sense that that's a wholeness that is shadow. That's a wholeness that doesn't generate union. It's not a true wholeness. It's a pseudo-wholeness that is shadow. That's a wholeness that doesn't generate union. It's not a true wholeness. It's a pseudo-wholeness. A right wholeness is right relationship between the parts. That's what a wholeness means. A wholeness means there's utter right relationship between the parts. So eros is the experience of radical aliveness, desiring ever deeper contact and ever greater wholeness. That's Eros. Eros is the desire for wholeness and wholeness is the quality of reality that allures us to that

self-actualization, which is inherent in reality itself. And that's obviously not an accidental cosmos. It's not a purely random cosmos. It's not that there's not surprise in cosmos. It's not that cosmos is purely pure ordained. There is freedom and surprise in cosmos. There's contingency in cosmos in the context of an enemy universe, in the context of a universe that's suffused with the allurement towards wholeness and which has an image in its imagination of what's possible, right? And it's deep, right? So you could have never been in a relationship.

And when I say you, I don't mean Kyle, right? We'll have that conversation later, right? But it's right. You or I, both of us, right? Could have never been in a relationship, right, that we feel like has the full wholeness that we desire. And yet, in the relationships we're in, right, we still move towards that wholeness because inside of us, we have an image of that wholeness, right? So how do we know that we should be dissatisfied? Because actually

inherent in us is that wholeness of cosmos. And when we have a moment of wholeness, we say, fuck yeah, right? Yeah, that's it. That's where we're going. And that moment of wholeness is often not measurable, not commodifiable, right? It's an entirely different order of value, right? So that is the sense of wholeness. Wholeness means that I'm not just ever and always already conscious. I'm ever always already allured to a prior wholeness that calls me, that itself

desires me, and needs me for its own wholeness. So it's two sides. And so it's like, so I offer a gift into the wholeness of reality, kyleness, that goffniness or operiness, right, might have nothing to offer. Sorry, we need kyleness. There's a way in which Kyle makes the puzzle whole in a way that no one else that ever was, is, or will be can. But unless I understand that a wholeness is a prior structure of reality, and it was really David Bohm, the physicist, who kind of was working with this construct of wholeness. It's what he was playing with. Now, what is that quality of wholeness in me that fulfills a fundamental need in the entire field of reality.

That's called Metatron. And it's that quality in me which is transformed. The original Metatron appears in the fifth chapter of the book of Genesis, right? And Metatron is called Enoch or Chanuch. Chanuch, C-H-A-N-O-C-H. Chanuch means in classical Hebrew, education. Strange word. Education. It's a word that's lost its fuck. It's lost its fuck a long time ago.

Right? It's like education. And the reason it lost its fuck is because we essentially were infused with the dogma, the virus, just like there was a fundamentalist religious virus that infused much of premodernity, there's a fundamentalist dogmatic postmodern virus, which says there's nothing to become. Why are you trying to become something? There's nothing to become. You're an accident in cosmos. Reality is a speck of dust, right, in a vast and meaningless cosmos. The more I know about reality, the more pointless it becomes. These are the dogmatic statements that kind of enter popular culture. So what are you trying to become? So if anything, it's a parlor trick. If anything, you're rearranging the deck chairs

on the Titanic. And until you actually realize, no, no, no, no, actually, the notion that I am a part from is actually an optical delusion of consciousness, as Albert Einstein correctly said it. And actually, the movement of my life, and this is where Albert Einstein didn't get, he got that actually separateness is an optical delusion of consciousness. But the notion that actually I contain within my quality of being, within my taste, the taste of Kyle-ness, the taste of, and when we say taste, the only thing people can think of is sex, by the way. Whenever I say taste, it's like, oh, sex, right? But that's like the most superficial version, right?

The taste of Kyle is the taste of Kyle's essence and the sexual models are us. So she wants to swallow Kyle's taste whole because only that will satisfy this fundamental yearning that lives in all of cosmos that only Kyle can meet. That's human dignity. That's human dignity. So Metatron is originally Hanuch, right? And Hanuch, right, walks with God, right, in the text. But Hanuch means education. Education means there's something to become. Education means evolution, actually. That's what evolution means. Evolution is if you put a gun to my head and you said,

Mark, tell me what evolution is or make my day, right? You're gone. You got two seconds. So I would say evolution is a series of transformations. That's what it is. It's a series of transformations that ascend, that deepen. Each transformation builds on the last one. That's evolution. That's what it is. It's a series of transformations that ascend, that deepen. Each transformation builds on the last one. That's evolution.

That's education. And that's Eros. Eros, evolution, and education mean the exact fucking same thing. They're the exact same thing. There's someplace to go. There's a journey to be on, which is not a Joseph Campbell hero's journey that I made up, which Joseph Campbell adopts and kind of inseminates into a postmodern moment in order to give it psychological meaning and merges it with psychology.

No, there's a hero's journey, which is engraved on the face of Cosmos itself. In other words, Cosmos intended you. That's what the interior and exterior sciences tell us. I'm intended by cosmos. Cosmos needs Kyle to take that journey towards wholeness. And when Kyle, simple Kyle, right, goes through all of the stages of his clarification, he goes through his medicine and he goes through his dharma and he does his psychology and he does his practice and he does his breath work and then he challenges, right, you know, fearlessly face everything, avoid nothing. He enters the joy. He tastes the ecstasy,

right? He gets lost for 17 days and comes back and finds himself and then does it again, right? In other words, when he's on that journey, then gradually, gradually reality begins to smile, watching the angels, paying attention, right? All of the fairies, all of the, right, the hills, everyone's watching. And then reality tilts itself to watch that emergence as Kyle emerges and he's transfigured into Kyle Metatron. So that's, Metatron means the transformed one, the man God.

Kyle is the man who became God, right? The woman who becomes goddess, the man who becomes God, that's Metatron. That is education. In other words, the reason children don't want to be educated today, because they correctly feel that they're being raised by the butcher, right, to be brought to the block to be slaughtered for consumption in the win-lose metrics. So the actual experience of being educated today is that your teacher, right, is actually, you know, the keeper of the hens who's going to slaughter you in the end and offer you up, right, on the altar of Moloch, right, the win-lose metrics, so that you can give up your life for this economic, you know, fiefdom, which actually

seats fundamentally to exploit you, to which you're ultimately irrelevant for, and we call that education. No wonder I don't want to hear from my teachers. No wonder I don't want to pay attention. To pay attention in Hebrew is the placing of the heart, simle, to place my heart. Why would I want to place my heart around someone who I look in their glazed eyes and they're actually, they say in Hebrew, they're going to shecht me, they're going to slaughter me. And it's not that I think that the teacher actually is going to slaughter me. I just realized the teacher's part of this larger system. And I sensed the teacher's not actually present and not actually alive,

that the teacher's fulfilling a function in a larger system that they themselves are unaware of. And we call that education. And so all of a sudden we have this attention deficit disorder. As post-modernity kind of explodes, like 1980, the attention deficit order explodes because post-modernity says there's nothing to pay attention to. There is no prior homeless that's calling me.

I can't actually become Metatron, a puzzle piece that is so profoundly whole in and of itself that it makes the whole itself more whole, right? Meaning the greatest dignity of reality is knowing that I make the whole more than it was. There's more wholeness to come. And the great paradox of the interior sciences, but also validated by all sorts of illusions in the exterior sciences, is that my wholeness changes the whole itself. That's my transformation is the transformation of the whole. And so therefore I'm infused. Metatron is this source of power. Metatron means I actually have the realization that my wholeness is not generic, but unique. And I enter so into

my radical subjectivity, my radical kyleness, that my subjectivity moves from finite subjectivity to infinite subjectivity, meaning my subjectivity merges with the ultimate subjectivity of the divine, of the infinite intimate, of the field of wholeness, which becomes more whole through me being fulfilled on my own journey to wholeness. It's shocking. That's the story of reality. And anything less than that is completely shaming. It's completely shaming.

I'll give a brother an example just for one second. Remember the Garden of Eden story. Let's hang out in the Garden of Eden, right? Damn, right? And Mark Vonnegut, Kurt Vonnegut's son, writes a book called The Eden Express, right? About kind of the journey of addiction as trying to take a fast ride back to the garden, right? It doesn't work because there's two swords held by the cherubs with flaming swords and you get burned by addiction trying to get back into the garden. Doesn't work, right? There's no fast road.

And medicine's not a fast road. Medicine without Dharma doesn't work. It doesn't work. That's how you get caught in it, right? So the Garden of Eden is the story. It's where sex, fuck, wholeness all come into play in the world the first time. So the end of the story of the inception of the feminine and masculine principle, right? The principle of fuck, the principle of erotic union.

It says, they were both naked. There was no shame. And then there's a snake in the garden and the story unfolds and however the story unfolds we're not going to read it now but we should we're gonna i'd like to start next year a kind of reading of sacred texts that's something that needs to be done but the story unfolds and the end of the story is they're shamed and they quickly, you know, run to cover their nakedness with these clothes that are both beautiful and covering nakedness, the clothes themselves. We have to do a whole conversation in clothing. It's the nature of clothing, right?

So clothing is both beautiful, both elicits the dimension of us that wasn't available otherwise, and it also hides. So they put on this clothing. They're ashamed. And then they're expelled from the garden, right? So in the classical religious interpretation, why are they ashamed? Because they fucked up.

They disobeyed the divine command. That's situational shame. I'm going to call that situational shame. Let's give it a name. This is right. You messed up. You're ashamed, right? Or you got shamed because your parents rejected your aliveness. Situational shame. That's a situation caused shame. Either you messed up or your caretakers

messed up and shamed you. Something went wrong. You got shamed. That's one read. It's not the deepest read. A deep read of the text, which I'm not going to spend the time now proving that that's the best reading. That's a different conversation. But a deep read of the text is that it's not situational shame, it's ontological shame. Now, a person who just heard that says, okay, whoa, it's too much, too much, too much ontological shame. What is that? Ontological shame means something very simple. And I'm going to, with permission, everybody, I'm going to say it in a way which again, won't be simple, because I want to make the effort with you, but we'll get there in like two minutes, we'll get there. So there was an Italian, there is, I think he must have been in his late 80s, an Italian theorist named Gambin, right? Who in a number of unreadable books says

something very similar to the lineage of Solomon, where he says that shame is the experience of subjectification and desubjectification, which means I experienced myself as Mark. Oh my God, I'm no longer just in the journey. I've now come out of the journey. I'm now individuated again. It's just me again. You remember that experience and shame. Like, what am I doing here? What's right? Subjectification. I'm a subject. As soon as I realize I'm a subject, I realize desubjectification. What am I here? What am I doing? What's this all about? And I feel shamed because I'm going to die. I don't know what's going to happen exactly afterwards. Where's my dignity? What's this all about? If you trace anything to the source, it doesn't seem meaningful. So then I respond to that shame by realizing,

ah, that's not actually who I am. Unique self is an affront to shame. I'm not actually merely a separate self subject who's irrelevant. I'm actually metatron in the making. I am actually an irreducible, unique expression, not just a part, but I'm participatory uniquely in the field.

And I'm a unique configuration of intimacy. And I'm a unique configuration of desire. And I'm a unique taste. And I have the capacity through my transformation to make God, the infinite intimate, more alive, more delighted, more whole, more ecstatic, more erotic, more kind. I do all that through my irreducible, unique, wholeness that no one that ever was, is, or will be other than myself can do. That realization is a return to Eros. That's a return to Eros, right? It's a

return to wholeness. Like, wow. So like, that does a fuckload more than Prozac. I mean, it's deep, and I'm not, I'm going to be really careful and responsible here. I'm not saying brother or sister that if you're taking Prozac, get off of your Prozac. I'm not saying that. So you got, you know, pharmacology is a complex process. You need a good prescriber. You got to mix the cocktail right. Sometimes it's critical for stabilization, you know, and maybe forever. That's fine. That's not a, this is not a shaming of pharmacology at all. What I'm saying is occasionally an important juncture is pharmacology is important, but

we medicate far too liberally, right? We medicate, right? Instead of actually meditating on our true nature. I've got to meditate on my true nature, my true nature when I actually have the sense of being needed by all that is. She needs me, right? So do I feel depressed and alienated when I know that she, right, power

itself, the wholeness of power and the power of wholeness itself is incomplete without my wholeness. Am I depressed? I don't think so. I'm depressed only if I'm alienated from that realization. So that's this quality of eros that we call, well, wholeness. Wow. Well, maybe one last sentence, brother. And we'll talk about this more, but I just want to say maybe one last thing about intimacy. we said that Eros has an interior science equation. And, you know, if you can, friends, read this book, A Return to Eros, together with the new book called First Principles and First Values.

You can look up Kyle's review of First Principles and First Values, you know, on Amazon. They'll tell you whether you should read it or not. But read it, read it, right? In first principles and first values, we have a series of interior science equations where we kind of try to set up as equations, core ideas in this new Dharma, this new story of value and response to the meta crisis that we're calling cosmorotic humanism.

And so there's an Eros equation, an intimacy equation that Kyle and I have already talked about. But I just want to say a word about it before we finish, because it's crazy beautiful, to say a word about it in response to wholeness. So Eros, we said, is the movement of radical aliveness desiring contact and ever greater wholeness. That's absolutely, we got that. But intimacy, which is a, intimacy is not really separable from eros, but it's its own quality. When you think eros, you have one feeling in your body. When you think intimacy, you have another feeling because there are words that are, there's nothing underneath them. There's no word to describe them. There's not a word that says, oh, this is what intimacy means, right? It's its own quality. So intimacy is shared identity. It's this realization

that my identity itself is not whole without you. And that's why we want to be in a relationship. We want to be in a relationship, not as to be in a relationship not as a pragmatic move, although two incomes are better than one, we get that. And we get, you know, tov ha'shnai minachad, two is better than one. But that's a surface pragmatic relation. But two is better than one is not just a surface pragmatic relation, it's an in-depth existential relation. Two is better than one because there's a wholeness in the two. It's because it's not good to be just apart,

right? It says the original text, lo tov hayot adam levado. It's not good to be lonely. Lonely is to be alienated from my wholeness. Because my wholeness, wholeness is a value of cosmos. Eros is a value of cosmos. So when I'm not in my wholeness, nothing else works. It all collapses. It all becomes forms of pseudo eros, right? Moving to cover up the emptiness. And I know, and, you know, maybe we'll close with this. I know that, you know, y'all, some of, some of y'all listening would have liked perhaps, you know, a few more personal stories and a few more images. And I get that. Right. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm about that. And I've, I've spent, I don't know, God, right. I guess I'm, I guess I'm older than 31. So I started

teaching this kind of thing 43 years ago, about 43, 44 years ago, something like that. And I've told lots of stories and stories are gorgeous and beautiful. And sometimes you remember a story forever. So we'll be telling stories in upcoming podcasts. But what we're trying to do in these podcasts is something a little different.

These are the fine wine podcasts. These are not the kind of quick, it's not the quick beer, even a good beer. These are the fine wine podcasts. This is not the quick beer, even a good beer. This is like good wine, meaning what we're saying is we're trusting you and you're trusting us that we can actually do the source code work, that we can actually evolve the source code of the new story. What what are the essential structures, right, of consciousness, of eros, that animate reality? And those are these 12 faces of eros. And so we're spending our time in these short podcasts

not kind of going off, right, on gorgeous and fun and delightful strands and threads of story and conversation, although that has enormous value. That's like fantastic, gorgeous rock star, deepest bow. But here we've kind of made a covenant that we're going to try and 45 minutes get like the core of the core of that face of Eros that operates, just to be clear, that operates, it's the core of your life and my life. It's the most intimate core of our personal, our most personal lives.

But it's also the most intimate core of economics or failed economics, depending if it's the most intimate core of our personal, our most personal lives, but it's also the most intimate core of economics or failed economics, depending if it's Eros or pseudo Eros, and of politics. And it's the response to the meta crisis of medicine and of chemistry and of nature and of art. It's everything.

So we're trying to kind of be in the source code together. So, oh my God, Kyle, wishing you brother like mad Eos right in every possible way all the way up and all the way down yeah ciao brother ciao so much mark thank you thank you yes fullness Thank you.