Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #378 Vision Quest, Sun-dance, & The Art of Connection w/ Ken Conte

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

In this podcast episode, we discuss Ken's intriguing life journey and spiritual practices. Covering Ken’s numerous experiences with Sundance and sweat lodges, and delve into his significant role in guiding vision quests. Ken shares his transformative journey from a troubled youth turning to drugs and alcohol to finding sobriety and spiritual healing through Native American traditions. The discussion highlights Ken's profound connection to nature and the challenges and rewards of guiding others in spiritual quests. The episode also explores Ken’s transition from being a vegetarian with a deep respect for animals to founding a school dedicated to teaching first-time hunters. Both the host and Ken reflect on their shared hunting experiences, the importance of ethical hunting, and the spiritual aspects of harvesting animals.    Connect with Ken here: Ancestral Hunting School Instagram   Our Sponsors: - Pique's Nandaka provides sustainable, all-day energy and makes you feel like you’re doing something good for your body! Try Pique and get up to 20% off plus a FREE rechargeable frother and glass beaker when you purchase exclusively at Piquelife.com - GO to MagicBag.co that is DOT CO, and use code: KKP at checkout! - For a limited time, our listeners get 15% off your entire order when you use code KKP  at checkout. That’s 15% off your order at truenutrition.com with promo code KKP. Take the guesswork out of nutrition with True Nutrition.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu  Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site

Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Today's guest is a friend of mine named Ken Conte. I first met Ken a few years back in fit for service, and the fact that he had done Sundance so many times really stuck out to me. Ken has been a part of many, many sweat lodges and has done many great things. He has a phenomenal school for first-time hunters

learning how to hunt. I had a chance to hunt with him two years ago. I was got my first elk with him, which was really incredible. We were in Southern Wyoming, Northern Colorado area, vast, vast lands, 9,000 feet elevation, uh, no trees anywhere on the ground for cover. And it was just such a beautiful experience. And I wanted to podcast with him then I just didn't have the equipment with me. Um, we saw each other other at, we've seen each other since at multiple fit for service events, but I was like, dude, we never podcast. We got to do that. And

he came out to our land for a very special event with my brother, Jimmy, where he put Jimmy through his first ever vision quest on the land, no food, no water for four days. And Ken will break that down what that actually looks like. Cause there's a lot more to it than just going without, but Ken's job was to tend the fire, hold down the fort, and make sure Jimmy was okay, and checking in on him via spirit, and many other ways of making sure that our brother Jimmy was good. I'm going to have a podcast with Jimmy coming up to discuss what that experience was like for him. This has been one of the things I've felt really drawn to. And the more I've had the opportunity to work with indigenous elders, the more I know this is something I will do. Chase Iron Eyes being one of those guys that I've been fortunate enough to be able to hang with, enough to know this is a path that I want to take. And so I'm very blessed to have friends that could hold this down here on our land.

One friend in which to hold the space for it and another friend in which to go through it first and lead the way. So Ken's awesome. You guys are gonna love this podcast. He has a really interesting life story too, which is cool. So lots of cool stuff there. And we talk about how we met.

We talk about the hunt. We talk about all sorts of good stuff. So share this far and wide with people if you enjoy it. Again, our ads are gonna to be in the episode, interspliced every 15 to 20 minutes. You still have the ability to fast forward, but please listen to these guys. I love every one of my podcast sponsors,

and they make this show possible. Ken Conte, welcome to the podcast, brother. Thanks. It's great to be here. Fuck yeah. We're doing something really cool right now. You're doing something really cool right now for the first time on our land. Something that I've been tracking for a very long time, probably since my first real medicine journeys with my old boxing coach, Weetzie. out in Indian Canyon in Northern California. And at a certain point, you know, I asked him, I know I've told this story a million times on the podcast, but I asked him, when will we use La Medicina? And he just started cracking up and he's like, I've been waiting for you to ask me.

And we started working with psilocybin and then ayahuasca and that really shifted the trajectory of my life. Something he always told me was, you know, the real one is the vision quest. That's where you go out with no food, no water, and you ask spirit for a vision. And you may only have one or you may have, you know, a few. But, you know, you sit in one spot, you know, and that's it. You know, if the mountain lion comes to you, the mountain lion comes to you. If the coyotes come to you, they come to you, you know. And it's the hope and the prayer that those prayer tires are strong enough that

they can read the boundary line and know what you're doing and and honor that so this is something i've been the more i've gone through especially you know now that i've i haven't there's ayahuasca is inexhaustible let me just say that like there's never a point if you ever hear somebody say like i know what ayahuasca is he's kind of of like, yeah, all right, cool. Tell me what you know, you know, like, um, it's kind of like saying, you know, God is inexhaustible. Great spirits and exhaust other journey has always lingered. And especially because I've come across a lot of people as have you, who have had trouble working with something you'd call a plant medicine, or have had trouble working with, you know, narcotics and street drugs. And so taking a substance is kind of off the table for them. And I've, I've absolutely fallen in love with breath work. You know, you've been a part of Fit for Service for a long time.

You know the kind of breath work we do. It's full-on alter-stated consciousness. You know, like we can get there and we can get there fairly quickly for free and all natural. So I think that that's, I'm always seeking these pieces. The darkness retreats, you know,

that Aubrey went to and Gadia's gone to and different people I know. Fantastic, not interested yeah I think I'd rather go without food or water for for even longer than four days than do the darkness but interesting um there's many and because I say that I know I'll have to do it at some point because of the fear of it but um I love all these different boxes of ways you know that spirit allows us to tap into a different frequency and allows us to meet our high self, to meet our guides, to meet whatever you want to call that. And regain direction, regain what Will Tegel called the inner GPS signal. And listen to that. So I want to dive deeply into this process because this is why you're here on our land right now.

And that's fucking amazing. Super fantastic. And I really am appreciative of you, your brother but let's wind back the clock sure you know you're how old now 51 51 52 next week you look fucking great happy early birthday brother you look great um talk about your life growing up because this kind of work started fairly early for you correct yeah so thanks for having me absolutely by the way. Um, love you, love your family, love being here on the land. So yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people, they end up having struggles early in life, right. And they can go one of two ways. They can be the victim or they can take that and alchemize it into something, you know, that's

beautiful. Um, I definitely took the victim route for a little while. Um, I will freely, freely say that. Um, and when I was 18, so when I was young, I drank a lot, um, smoked a lot of weed, um, and was really just trying to escape my current existence. It was tough, you know, and it wasn't as tough as a lot of people. Um, but it was tough, especially emotionally. I was super sensitive, um, at a young age. Um, and so, you know, I turned to drugs and alcohol and they worked, you know, like they did the trick when I needed them to, um, and then they didn't.'t. And so at 18 years old, I was actually going to alternative high school that I kind of, I guess I'll say it saved my life. It was an experiential

high school called Walkabout. And it was super hippie, sat on the floor, went outside and looked at the grass, you know, that sort of stuff of stuff. And, uh, in that moment, uh, somehow I had this, like, I can't do this anymore. And honestly, I thought I was just going crazy. I didn't think, I didn't think that, you know, the alcohol and drugs really had anything to do with it. Went and talked to a woman, um, there who, you know, asked me the right questions. And, and I ended up getting sober at 18 and went to 12-step programs, and it saved my life. I am really clear that in that moment, that was exactly what I needed.

And concurrently, because part of that is you've got to find a higher power. I wasn't particularly interested in church. It wasn't that I thought it was bad it just didn't resonate with me I'd go there and it just felt really manufactured yeah yeah it just didn't it just didn't like it never hit me where I was like oh you know which is what I expected to happen when I went to church for whatever reason. Um, and, and so I was, I actually took a native American, native American studies course in high school. Um, and that's what put me on this path, you know, and I, and I credit my, my teacher, Vic Messick, you know, he was a huge part of that.

Um, getting goosebumps thinking about him.'s an awesome human um and had created this curriculum that you know went through a lot of the teachings and and kind of the knowledge bases and where where it came from and i still actually have like the binder from it oh that's awesome yeah which is really which is really cool um and for whatever reason I was like something landed for me when he said a vision quest and you know this would never well I shouldn't say this would never happen these days but at 18 years old he's like you should go do one you know as my like high school teacher and I was like what do I do and he didn't really know he had never done one. Um, and so I found myself in the mountains of white of the, I guess it was the white mountains of New Hampshire. Um, nobody knew where I was. I

don't recommend this to anybody. This is a bad idea. Like this is not, this is not the way you should do it. Uh, but it was what I needed to do. Uh yeah, I found myself in the mountains of New Hampshire and in the middle of a river on this like little island. And I sat there for two days, two nights by myself, no food, no water. And something happened. And the only thing that I can say is that something shifted in me at that moment where my connection to nature, which had always been there. Um, and funny

enough, like one of the first memories that I have, you know, God, he always asks like, what's one of your first memories is actually getting lost in the woods and everybody's probably like, Oh, there's so much juice. Yeah, totally. And so and I had a conversation with my mom about it not that long ago. And I was like, I don't like I wasn't freaked out at all. And she's like, no, you were fine. She's like, the adults, they were freaked out. She's like, but you were fine. Like you were just like hanging out and doing your own thing.

And so I've always felt really comfortable, like I would say more comfortable outside than I feel inside. Um, and so, uh, so yeah, that's really how it started. And, you know, people I've had people ask me like, Oh, what was your, what was your big takeaway, you know, from that first one? And it was so long ago, uh, it would be hard to say, but the one thing that I do remember is, you know, the color green was very, very, very, uh, prevalent in it. Um, and so, and I was really myopic at that point, all I could see what was right in front of me, like the mouse, right? Like that's what I I that's what I equate it to they don't see anything in the distance anything that's in the distance you know hawk eagle whatever any sort of shadow they just they just hunker down and that was me

anything that was like outside of my like little tiny purview in you know know, Mount Kisco, New York was like terrifying to me. Um, and it helped kind of blow that up. Um, yeah, so that was, that was my, that was my first, my first vision quest. Um, and like I said, I wouldn't recommend that way to anyone. Not telling anybody. Yeah. I have quite a few, quite a few things where I, you know, if I admit it on the podcast, it's like, don't try this this way. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, for certain. Um, yeah, it's funny. It's making me think about all those right now, which I don't care to repeat, but, uh, um, who, who really, you know, you had this mentor in high school that turned down to this. Um, where did you find connection after that? Like talk about how your life transpired, you know, in it.

Because that's still, for me, like I was, I somehow held it together through drugs and alcohol from 13 through 22, 23. But that's right then where I snapped. Yeah. And I felt like my 20s were infinitely harder than my 30s and infinitely harder, you know, than my 40s right now. So talk about this piece, you know, and you met your wife fairly early on. Is that correct?

No. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, we've been together for 25 plus years now. So, I mean, yeah. I mean, you know, almost half my life. But I moved to Colorado. I went to school at CSU. I thought for sure that I was going to be a veterinarian. I had worked at vet hospitals from the time I was 13 until I was 18. And so, and at that point also in high school, I became a vegetarian.

And so I had this, I had a lot of really black and white thinking. I was like, if I'm going to help animals, I can't eat them. Like that was just the way my mind was wired for a long time. Um, and so I moved to, moved to Colorado, went to CSU in, in, you know, I was like, I'm going to be a veterinarian. Um, and in that, you know, I went to, you know, it was still, you know, doing, you know, 12 step programs, met a guy there who, uh, was a Mohawk guy, um, and had, um, and had actually done a bunch of sweat lodges. And he, he invited me to a sweat lodge. I had no idea what I was getting into. Um, it was tiny, tiny you know like you can maybe fit four

people it was on public land how small does that have to be because you're we can talk about it was it was it was real i mean it was probably like like from what i remember it was probably like six by six i mean it was it was really small and there were just three of us in there i don't remember who the other person was in there, honestly. I know that George and I were in there. And we went in. We did it. And I was like, what the fuck are we doing here?

Like, this is insane. And then we went and jumped in the river afterwards and did the turtle dance because it was fucking freezing cold. And, you know, in reference to what happens to your genitals when you go in cold water. Um, and so home in your throat. Exactly. I was like, Whoa. Uh, you know, first probably cold plunge experience. Um, but something, something clicked there. Um, and he ended up actually building a sweat lodge in his backyard. He introduced me to my now mentor, Tom Cross. And it was fascinating to see, like, to look back on it now

and see all the things that happened to make kind of the life that I have today. Like, they seem almost otherworldly, you know, that they actually happened. But he introduced me to Tom. We started going down to Denver to his sweat lodge. His sweat lodge has been around now for 35 years, maybe longer. And it introduced me to a whole community of people, a lot of which I've known since I was 18 years old, you know? And so to have that community and people who have known me since I was basically a kid up until now and watching me have kids. And it's like the one of the most enriching pieces of my life um for sure and so

and and you know like you know we talk about kind of uh the hero's journey like I definitely had the call and definitely like gave it the middle finger a few times because it was hard you know and I I would go and I would go to go to sweat and i'd be like this is fucking hard and then i'd like go to some like mega church and like put 10 bucks in the plate and be like this is a lot easier you know and then listen to what they were saying and i'm like women need to be subservient to their godly husbands like fuck this this is fucking crazy there's like multiple weddings that we've gone to and i just always elbow tosh you know like the same bed finally something

resonates she's like shut the fuck up but yeah it was it was that like push it was like that rubber band effect you know of like i would go back and i would like go to a lodge and then i'd like go to like the buddhist temple and like start doing you know, of like, I would go back and I would like go to a lodge and then I'd like go to like the Buddhist temple and like start doing, you know, start learning about other things. And I just kept coming back. And every time I came back, it felt like home. It just felt and not like home. It felt home. You know, it's like, this is the thing. And so for seven years, I tended fire and did that, you know, pretty much every week we'd go there and I'd help build the fire. And, you know, George was an amazing human. He's passed since, you know, had his shadow side.

But without him, like, I wouldn't be sitting here today. All right, guys, I want to tell you about a new sponsor. That's an amazing sponsor called True Nutrition. These guys are awesome. You can make custom blends of greens with anything you want. You can sweeten it how you want. You can use all natural flavors. You can use whatever you want to do for sweetener.

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And I absolutely love it. It tastes phenomenal. I've tried multiple flavors from these guys. They do a very good job. They have an excellent team that works on flavoring. Trust me, I know this from my days at Onnit that that's not always the case. There's a lot of misses when you're trying to create products. But what's cool is you get to be the guy in the lab. You get to be the guy that's experimenting and trying new things. And based on your goals, you can figure out what is going to be best for

you. If you're tired of buying products that have a lot of what you want, but a few things that you don't, True Nutrition is the way to go. This is exactly where you get to customize and decide everything that you have in there. Head over to truenutrition.com slash KKP and find exactly what you're looking for. You know, he was like my surrogate dad in a lot of ways. Watched him go through a lot of, a lot of struggles. Um, and after seven years, um, you know, his mentor who, who's, you know, now mine, um, and, and my best friend, um, gave me a pipestone and said, you know, you need to be a pipe carrier now. And I was like, are you sure? You know, like, I don't, I'm, I'm not sure. He's like, you need to be a pipe carrier. Now you need to go and do your first vision quest that's supported by us in the community. And I had gone up for a bunch of

years and supported, um, people and watch them go out. And we would have times where there were 25 people scattered over six miles. I mean, it was, it was crazy, you know, and we would be National Forest, BLM, and our own private land, and we just put people out, and I watched what happened with those people and taking them out, you know, like we did the other day with Jimmy, and then going and picking them up, like something changes, like cellularly within them, within the land that they're on and then within the community it's and when you when you open your eyes and like recognize it it's it's stunning um and so I was like all right I'm gonna I guess I'm gonna go do this and so um went and did my first vision quest and it was, it was really hard. Like it was, it was a real challenge for me on a lot of different levels. Those first four years were, and I actually did actually got married in that time. So I actually did my four years within five years.

And so we have in our tradition, we do, we have people commit to four years, right. And that's, that's something that happened, um, in recent years. Right. And the reason why is for a lot of people, they may not know, but, uh, a lot of native American traditions were actually outlawed in the 70s. And they were not allowed to practice what they knew and what they had been taught. To the point where they weren't allowed to have drums, right? Yeah. Like that's how strict this shit was. Yeah, I mean it was – and a lot of it was – and I'm talking generally here.

I'm not a Native American historian. I'm not Native American. Like I'm going to say that right now. It was the past that called to me. You know, I did not choose it. It chose me. And so, you know, what happened was in that time, a lot of the elders got together and said, how are we going to make this so when we bring these traditions back, which happened in the 70s, that we can perpetuate them?

And they said, four-year commitment. That way, somebody who comes for four years, they bring somebody who comes for four years, they bring somebody who comes for four years, and it goes on forever because honestly like the traditions were fading out to the point where they didn't know and they were happening underground like don't get me wrong they were still happening but on such a small level and christianity had had been so pervasive and the missionaries had been so pervasive and oppressive um that there was a real fear there that their traditions and their knowledge base was going to go away. And so we adhere by that, you know, we adhere by that, that four year rule and it's constantly broken, you know, and that's the, that's the, that's the

yes. And of a lot of this, you know, I try not to talk about anything in absolutes because I realize like all the traditions, rules, parameters that we have and that we've developed and that I know and love and that are in my heart. There's always room for it to grow and expand and contract and expand and contract. And so it's been, yeah, it's been a completely wild ride. I got done with my, my fourth year of vision quest and it was so clear. And I've said this, you know, so many times, but there's only two things that I've been 100% sure of in my life. One was to ask my wife to marry me. And the other was to Sundance. Those are the only two things that I am fucking 100% that I was like, no doubt. And it wasn't that I didn't have fear, but it was like, I know these are the things that I need to do in order to like be the best version of myself and like fulfill whatever it is that I'm supposed to do here on earth.

That's powerful. Yeah. It's for me, you know, like I don't know anybody that had been to Sundance that had heard of it. And, um, you know, like describing what ayahuasca is for the uninitiated, you know, like, I don't, I don't want to try to describe what I know about it because I'm uninitiated. Right. I haven't done the damn thing. So you can say, yeah, there's suspension and there's the tree and there's, you know, the no food, no water and the sweat lodges and all that, that in and of itself is enough to chew on to make people think twice you know about that but when perangi went p has been such a brother and um i remember him telling me about it and i was like i felt a strong calling and then you know he came back the second year and was talking about i was like i actually need to do this vision quest before i even entertain the idea it was something like. You know what I'm saying? Like there are levels to the game to move through that I think are beneficial to take, you know, just walk up to the bar and try to squat a thousand pounds, you know?

Yeah. But yeah, you know, getting introduced to Chase Iron Eyes on this land, and then it's a donut, just an incredible guy. You sat right by and Chase, you know, to, to your credit, chase was impressed by, you know, you said I'm a singer, but I'm not a singer like they chase it. You're a singer, brother. Like he absolutely, absolutely. You know, there's no two, no doubt about it. You sang beautifully.

You hold the sweat for us with chase and pour on ghee with Bobby Kennedy here on this land. And then we went to Sedona. Unfortunately, we couldn't do a sweat there due to the fire regulations. But getting connected with him and Ozuya and Tone and so many people that they had met at Standing Rock was like a real treat. Because since my boxing coach died four or five years ago, he moved on and maybe six years ago now, I've had nobody that I'm around other than Dr. Will Tagle and yourself that has this kind of lineage knowledge to learn from yeah and so it's been really cool

getting it with them but again I feel that you know that that there's that tapping at the door you know where it's like you know like these are you know Chase is a Lakota elder and and and so it's like, all right, I can feel this coming on. So yeah. Keep talking about your trajectory there. You, you, you get handed the pipe first, first, and then I want to talk Sundance, but talk about what it means to be a pipe carrier, because it's not, this isn't something that

everyone does. It's not something that's asked of everyone either. Even if you walk these paths, it's not something that's just freely given away. And it's, it's, it is a big deal. big deal yeah and you know it comes to people in different ways you know some people um people that i love and respect like they go and and they're asked to carry a pipe and they go buy one when there's people out there that are gifted pipe makers and And, um, in our community, like we typically make ours. Um, and there's something about that, like crafting that, that beautiful piece of pipestone that only comes from one place, you know, in the world. Um, and, um, and then taking that, that stem and making it. And I've actually had two different pipes.

I was actually helping a sister with her pipe and helping kind of get the basic kind of formation of what the stone was going to look like. And I had my pipe out, and I was using my pipe as kind of a reference point and I had it on the bench and uh my pipestone dropped and it hit the ground and it broke and I was fucking devastated I was like motherfucker like what does it mean like holy shit you know like what did I do and uh and I my friend and mentor, Tom, and I was like, what the fuck?

I just broke my pipe. Like, holy shit. What am I going to do? And he's like, you know what it means, right? And I was like, fuck, no. What does it mean? And he's like, you need to be more fucking careful. And I was like, all right, man.

Like, thanks, you know, for the levity. And he's like, and you need to fucking, you know, make a new one. And, um, and so with that, you know, there is a responsibility around that pipe, which is basically anybody hands you tobacco and says, I want to pray with you. It doesn't matter day or time you say yes. You know, I just had a brother not long ago that was like, I need to come over and smoke the pipe with you. Cool, man, let's do it, you know.

Doing it, you know, next weekend with another brother because they asked and so we do it, you know. And with that, there's truth that comes out. And so every pinch of tobacco that we put in there is a prayer, you know, and when we burn that, it gets released to spirit. And so with that, um, and honoring all the directions, you know, there's a real, there is a responsibility and there is a piece to it where, um, I, wherever I go, I try to take that with me, you know? And it's not always possible.

But, you know, for the most part, TSA doesn't seem to give me a hard time anymore. For a while there, it was like, every time they're like, what is this? And they're like, can I touch it? You know? And I'm like, I'd rather you didn't, you know? Like, you know, but if you have to. And so, yeah, it feels really good.

And then when my, I got adopted, um, by, uh, in a traditional hunka ceremony, um, by a man named Dave Abrams who, uh, went by, uh, grandpa bear claw. Um, and that was, you know, probably 15 years ago. Um, and so when he passed a few years ago, he passed on his pipe to me, um, which was a real honor. And so I have, I actually have two pipes now and the one that Jimmy is holding is actually grandpa bear claws. And so we use it as a healing pipe when people need, you know, that healing when they need, um, when we have special ceremonies, if there's somebody that I when they need when we have special ceremonies if there's somebody that i put out that doesn't have a pipe like that's for lack of a better description like that's telephone to creator that's the direct connection and when we're out there in our vision

quests like we're holding that pipe when we're out there in Sundance, that pipe is on the altar the whole time. Um, and it's packed with our prayers and intentions. So yeah. Tell us about your, your first Sundance, you know, like at each of these things, you know, I got the first sweat is like such a mind blower. I can imagine the first vision quest, you know, and, and we've walked through that, but you know, you said you were, you had no doubt about marrying your wife and no doubt about going to Sundance.

Yeah. It's weird. I like, I don't talk about it a lot. It's okay if you don't want to. Especially on, no, it's, I think it's important. I think in one of the things that, that's really become apparent to me, especially going through Fit for Service, was I had really separate lives, right? Like I had my spiritual life that I did not share about with people. You know, they'd ask me what I was doing when I went to Sundance.

And I'd be like, oh, family camping trip. Like I just wouldn't say. And it wasn't that I was embarrassed but I felt like there was going to be judgment you know is it like around what it is I see you know like it's like trying to explain psychedelics to somebody who's never touched it yeah yeah it's it's kind of it's really difficult to really put your finger on it but I know for me and and this is true with, you know, even to this day, you know, when I get out there, there's this feeling of deep reverence for the land, for the people, and also just terrified. But that first time specifically, because you have no idea what you're getting into,

um, it's, it's pretty jarring, you know? Um, and, and the difference, you know, for me, and, and this is something that, that has been explained to me, like the difference between a Vision Quest and, and Sundance specifically, um, like Vision Quest is solitary. People that are young have a really hard time being solitary, right? They're, they're so used to, most people are really used to being around community, you know, and having that distraction, you know, of a phone, of a person, of whatever it is, food, all the, all the things. And you take, everything is stripped away, you know, and with Sundance, it's more of a community, you know, we're there. Yeah.

We're sequestered away from everyone. There's no food, there's no water. We're all staying together communally in teepees. But there's some comfort in that, in the fact that you're going through this collectively. Like we're all having our own experience, but we also have this collective experience and collective energy that's happening. Um, and so, you know, that first one was just, it, it very similar to, to a sweat lodge. You're like, what the fuck am I doing here? And like, this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, there's no other place that I should be. And the way that I describe it for me is it's like that hard reset, you know, um, it's that just you get done and you know, my, my teacher really says it very simply and very eloquently, which is, you know,

there's only three things that are important, food, water, touch of relatives. That's it. Right. And that touch of relatives is family. It's that hug. It's that, that thing that you're denied for those four days. And they're right there on the outside of the circle and they can see you and they can feel your energy and they can feel your pain and they can feel your struggle and they can feel your joy, but you can't share that with them physically in that moment. And there's something absolutely beautiful about that when you're done and being able to have that, where you're like, oh yeah, that first sip of water,

that first bite of a piece of watermelon, you're like, oh, fuck, this is, this really is what it's about. You know, that first embrace, you know, from your loved ones, like it's, it's, it's fricking wild, man. Um, so yeah, I mean, I started sun dancing before my kids were born, but I both of my my daughter was a month old at her first sun dance and my son was in utero um there and and they that's you know they they grew up like that's their family you know in a lot of ways so yeah that's beautiful i want to take uh we're trying to plan a trip to the Black Hills with Chase and his crew.

And I'm going to teach what I can on the physical. His son's in wrestling and they got a good team out there. And oddly enough, they're all fucking stupid good at basketball and volleyball. All of them are running circles around us. Oh, that's so great. It's like, what is this? It's like when one of the retired players dresses up like an old man for a Sprite commercial and schools everyone on the court. And they're like, what? And then he pulls the beard off.

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to come up, to take care of themselves. Just as the UFC was a huge, it was the first time I wanted to take care of myself. I didn't have to that much in football. I could lift weights and eat like shit, and that was a part of the job. I could go out drinking the night before and show up a few hours later on the practice field and do just fine because I was 20.

But fighting gave me a purpose in in taking care of myself and these guys have that purpose so I've been invited out to help with them but I want to bring my kids as well yeah I want them to to be in the environment that's that they have never seen before that they've never known you know like yeah my kids know Northern California, Vegas, Sedona. Yeah. And, and, you know, the little bits of driving through New Mexico and Colorado that we've had, my, my son knows Bozeman, you know, but he doesn't, we don't know a lot of the rest of the U S and we certainly have never been embedded in a, in a completely different culture.

So I'm really excited for that. That's such a special thing that your kids got to grow up that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it's kids, you know, they, their friends, you know, are people that they've known their entire life from there. And sometimes they don't see them all year. Um, sometimes they only see him at ceremony. Um, but there's a connection there. And so, and we have like on the, on the third day of our Sundance, we actually bring kids in. And so anybody that want any kid that wants to, they can, they can come in and they have to kind of go through the initiation of that, you know, go to a sweat lodge, hang their 50 prayer

ties. Um, and then, and then come in and, and do, do that last day. And it's, you know, my son was like, I think he was six years old or something. And he was like, I want to Sundance with you. And I was like, I don't know, man, I'm not sure about, I'm not sure about this. Um, because there is a certain amount of just, it's a lot, you know, and they learn something through that and it's a lot you know and they learn something through that and it's only you know we have them come in the night before and so they have their last meal and then they come in and they sweat with us and then you know they

sleep in the teepees with us and then they dance all day the next day and that's our last day but there's something just magical that happens out there for them. Um, that I don't, I feel like is lost in the rest of society, you know, that, that gets them to another place where, you know, it's like, yeah, they're not really even fasting for 24 hours, but they're kids, you know, and they're out there dancing all day in the sun doing the thing and it's it's amazing to see the energy that they bring in to that circle like that's part of the beauty of it is they really get to have that moment of like pushing that energy out to the people that are dragging ass, you know, like myself. Yeah.

Um, and then also receiving that love, you know, it brings like a certain amount of levity, um, to the situation. So it's, yeah, it's beautiful. That's huge. Yeah. I mean, to your point at that, the gross rate of a, you know, six through 16 year old to go without food, you know, if you skipped skipped a meal you'd feel like you're dying you know i remember how much i ate growing up oh yeah you know if you missed a snack at two or

three hour mark it'd be you know i'd literally start bouncing off the fucking walls yeah yeah for sure what a cool thing to give though because of the fact that you know you think about modern culture and just that the the issue with screens screens altogether because of how available it is. And we have everything at our fingertips and how hard that is for adults to grapple with. And you and I were around before that shit and it's still taken us by whirlwind and to the point where most parents don't even realize it's a problem.

And our, you know, kids are getting raised on iPads and have cell phones at eight years old, whatever, you know, and it's on ipads and and have cell phones at eight years old whatever you know it's like to each their own but um to give them a whole different experience of of life and i would you know i was just on on with one of my one of my brothers naveen before this who was talking about the you know he's in sweden right now and he can go in this cold river that you know

he swam for a minute you know in this stream and it fucking completely shifts him. And he gets the high and the rush of that. And, but in order to get in, he's got to convince himself. And so he uses the old school, you know, like, well, if I'm not good enough, you know, like the Tony Robbins, I'm not good enough unless I do this. And there's a reframe there. Right. And that's something I was talking about. Like you lean into the challenge because it's good for you and because you love yourself.

That replaces the I'm not good enough answer. If you don't do it, it has nothing to do with how good you are, but you still do it because you're not chasing the dragon. You know this is good for you, and you know what it's going to bring to you. I think the only way you can do that with kids without abusing them is to do dude in community. Yeah. Right.

Like I can't, I can't force my guy. I get yelled at a lot for my wife. Cause he barrel jump into the ice bath and jump right out. I'm like, stay in there for at least 10 seconds. Like, let's see how long you can go.

And, and he's done, he's done a minute before, but most of the time he's in and out, you know, and it's like, he can't, I can go in there for 10 minutes.

It doesn't matter. He's going to choose when he wants to go in and stand, you know, and it's like, you can't, I can go in there for 10 minutes. It doesn't matter. He's going to choose when he wants to go in and stand. Correct. Yeah. But I think for to just to bear witness to what you guys go through and something like that is, is enough to shift consciousness and then be invited in, you know, for that last day. Yeah. It's a big one for kids. Yeah. And I think, I think especially for kids and what I've found is like giving them the opportunity to do those things is like 90% of it. Right. And then they

get to choose. And what I've seen in my kids path, like even with the ice bath, you know, I've, my son's a college baseball player now but you know when he was in high school i was like this is going to help you with recovery and he'd just be like no no no and then the next thing you know i'd like look outside and he'd be like watching youtube while he's in the ice bath and i'm like hey if that's what works for you you know let's go yeah and so i think that there's and it's you know it's the same thing with my daughter where I'd be like, you know, you sleep better if you work out, you'll sleep better if you go for a walk. What, like, why don't you take the dog for a walk? You know, and then, but she had to find it on her own time.

Right. And so it's that kind of, that balance of like presenting it and giving the options, you know, which those were never things that were talked about, you know, through no fault of my family, but those things weren't talked about in terms of health. Like, Hey, if you eat better and don't drink Mountain Dew all day, like you're probably going to be able to sleep better and you're going to feel better, you know? Um, and my mom was a little more, definitely a little more health conscious than my dad. But those things just weren't presented to me in the same way. And so now, you know, finding that balance of like, hey, these are things that I do. You don't have to do them, but they work for me. And it's amazing how they kind of internalize that and then have to figure it out on their own time.

One of the things that I've learned over the years through my own medicine use is that it is way better when I have a hand in the curating process. And being able to grow my own mushrooms has been a phenomenal thing because I can actually bake my intention into the medicine prior to doing the journey. I can give it all the love, the respect, the reverence, and I can hold those little guys, the little ongitos while they're young, as they grow all the way through the growing process, all the way through the drying process, and all the way to the ceremony in which I partake with these magical, beautiful medicinal mushrooms with respect and with reverence. And there's a marked difference in outcome. I find that when it's mushrooms that I've grown, I typically have much easier,

more loving and beautiful journeys. Obviously, everything is dose dependent and your set and setting does matter. But the respect and the reverence and the intention you bring to the equation is just as important. And I think having your hand in the curating process is one of the ways in which we connect to the medicine

long before we participate. Go to magicbag.co. That's magicbag.co. And they provided my listeners with a discount code, so use KKP at checkout. Magic Bag can be shipped anywhere in the U.S. Yeah, it's a much better approach than do this because we do it. Exactly. Do this because it's good for you.

Yeah, exactly. Do this because it's good for you doesn't work. It doesn't seem like it does, but yeah. Well, let's talk. I mean, you were certain of Sundance. You were also certain of your wife. Talk about her. She's a runner.

Was she the one that got you into yoga? Actually, the opposite. I got her into yoga. Let's go. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, yeah. When did you start falling

in love with these different traditions and and working with those yeah I mean I think so for for a large part of my 20s um like so when I stopped drinking um and smoking weed every day I immediately went to cigarettes. I started smoking cigarettes. You know, I look back on it now. I needed, I felt like I needed some sort of vice, right? And I also had super low self-esteem. And so I look at it as kind of the, I'll show you, I'll kill me.

Like, it's ridiculous. And that was, that was precisely the internal dialogue that, that was happening. Um, and so I was really unhealthy for a lot of years and, and, you know, struggled with depression. Um, and even through, you know, I was doing, doing sweats. I was, you know, being of service. I was doing all these things, um, and was just did not feel good, you know? Um, and so at one point, um, I decided like, I need to stop smoking cigarettes. Like this is, this is the number one thing that I need to do. So being the human that I am, I'm like, what's a good way to stop smoking cigarettes? I'm going to be a triathlete, right? So just one extreme to the other, you know. And so did my first triathlon, I don't know, 20, maybe 30 years ago, 28 years ago or something like that.

It was miserable for sure. Um, I had no idea what I was doing. I had, was not a good swimmer. Um, and I was in school at that point, um, at college. Um, still it took me 10 years to graduate college, uh, cause I would teach snowboarding during the winters and take the winters off from school and then go back and take classes and then go back and teach snowboarding. So I could pay for school. Um, and it worked, um, but it's not, it's not a great trajectory. Uh, but in that time, you know, I also found that, you know, I needed to start to, you know, become like the human that I knew that I could be. And exercise just wasn't a big part of my family.

My dad's fairly healthy. He plays a lot of tennis. But there wasn't a lot of like get out and move, like go out and like push yourself. There was a lot of, I tried a lot of things, especially as a kid and failed and then did not, I'd just be done. I'd be like, I suck at this. I'm not doing it anymore. Um, and so doing that first triathlon and then being like, oh, I can do this. Like, I don't have to be the best at it, but it gives me, it fuels something in me. Um, and so found this path to health, um, start to feel a lot better. Um, and, um, actually met my

wife at the gym at, at CSU. Um, and it's a, it's a bizarre, a little bit of a bizarre story, just in the sense that like, I walked into the gym one day, she was working out, never seen her before. I am not the guy. And I think you know me well enough. i am not the guy and i think you know me well enough i am not the guy to just like walk up to some random woman and like ask her out but that and i had never done that in my life right um and i walked up to her and i was like no this is a bit presumptuous but like you want to go get coffee or tea or something? And she was like, definitely not. I don't know you. I'm way too safe for that, I think was exactly what she said.

And so I was like, all right, cool, you know, and went about my business and worked out or whatever. Extra hard. Yeah, probably. And I was like, it was was funny too because there's something that shifted in me that was like oh like i didn't die you know like it was fine you know i was like in my 20s yeah i was in my 20s at that point um that would be more yeah i mean and and and looking back on it now i was like i probably should have done that more like Like, I mean, it really wasn't, there was like this, it like solidified like some sort of courage in me that was like, that I'd felt previously where it was like, oh no, this would like kill me.

You know, like literally, like I could not take that sort of rejection. That's what it felt like. And then when it happened, I was like, Oh, like it's all right. You know? And wasn't looking to date. Anybody was pretty happy. Single, just like training all the time and going to school and like had felt like I

was kind of on track, went to the gym the next day. She was there working out. Cause we had the same hour off or whatever. And so I was like, fuck, I got nothing to lose. You know? So I went up to her again and I was like, sorry, it was weird. Like, I swear I'm not a creep.

Like I completely respect what you said, but I'm sorry I made it weird. You know? And she was like, oh, it's okay. You know, whatever. And we would see each other, you know know on and off just fairly frequently we'd run into each other at the grocery store um and then finally one day uh we were there and I noticed that she actually came over to talk to me and it wasn't like me pursuing you know and it was just and at that point I was like oh we'll be friends like she seems cool you know whatever um and so she came up to me and talked to me and was like you know and we just

kind of had some banter and of course in the moment I couldn't like process that and so I actually went and changed like took a shower and like in the shower I was like oh I mean I might as well give it another shot what the fuck you know and so I went up to her and I was like, I'm only going to ask one more time. And I didn't even like get through my sentence. She's like, yes. Like, what do you want to do? And I was like, cool. And so, yeah.

And that was like the beginning of it. Makes me a little teary eyed. Because without that, that like following that whisper, you know, which I don't even know what it was, honestly. Like, because I can't put my finger on it, but it's so clear that it was the right thing in that moment. And so like the lesson there is like when you, if you feel like, you know, like there's some like little inkling inside you, like fucking follow that, you know? Um, cause I haven't, I haven't regretted things that I've done, but I've regretted a lot of things I haven't done. Yeah. You know? And, and so I think taking that action, um, like I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't be sitting here today without that.

So, yeah, that's a big point. We get this question a lot in Fit for Service and I want to chat Fit for Service because you've been with us for so fucking long, you know, one of the OGs. But since this year we've been teaching in Spiritually Fit and there's always that question on like, how do I know the inner whisper is correct? How do I know the inner whisper is leading me to do something that's beneficial inner whisper is leading me to do something that's beneficial versus like ego leading me to do something self gratifying. And, you know, my answer is try it and see, right. That's one way. Sure. But then once you, once you have a track record of where this has gone, right now, now you, you that's discernment in and of itself,

you know, right. Because as these things start to compile in the right direction, it becomes easier and easier to listen to the whisper. The whisper doesn't get louder, but your ears become a little more sensitive to it, right? Yeah, more attuned. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's exactly what Gaffney teaches. You know, like there's, at the heart of Eros,

there's an allurement from your soul to the thing you're, you're, you're seeking, right? Like you're drawn to it. And that thing is drawn to you in a way where if you can just say yes to that, and it's not, you know, self gratifying, like a fucking you porn or a donut,

you know, then, then, then there is something there. I love donuts though. God damn. They're so fucking good. You porn has been taken down in Texas.

So you got, oh man, you porn you porn's been taken down in Texas. Oh, man, you porn, all those sites are gone in Texas. Not in Arizona, surprisingly. I found that out in Sedona. Oh, man. Well, I mean, what drew you to Fit for Service? You've been with us for so long. Yeah.

Did you learn about it through Aubrey? I'm always curious about this because like i've done full temple reset with godsey five times i think yeah and there's times i don't think of myself as like a big name guy but there's times where two-thirds of the class didn't know who me or godsey were and they went to it because they heard aubrey talk about it or they went to it because they heard him talk about fit for service. And then they found this thing online and they're like, I want to try this. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, I was, I was at a really interesting point in my life where it was, so it was pre COVID. I actually, um, applied for fit for service. Um, and you know, there's that last question that's like, are you all in, are you willing to like spend the money? And I was like, no, cause I wasn't, you know, it just wasn't in the position to be able to do that. Um,

but I felt like something needed to, I needed to shake things up. You know, I was at a point in my life where I felt a little unfulfilled. I felt like my community was absolutely beautiful, but I felt like there was more, like there was more to learn. There was more of life to live. Um, but I had really been, um, and this is going to be like a little difficult for me to talk about, but I'm going to talk about it anyways, because it feels like the right time to do it. So I had been really put into a box by, you know, the thing that saved my life, which was sobriety, you know, and kind of a lot of the dogma around that, you know. And so re like the black and white thinking that I had was just so strong in me. Like it's this way, it's not this way. This is the way that you live life.

This is not the way you live life. Um, you know, anger is the dubious luxury of normal men. Like all of these things that, you know, are talked about that are so useful, right? When you're first sober, you know, that are like, this is a hundred percent the way. And so I had, I had this moment where I was like, okay, I'm gonna apply for this thing. It's either going to destroy my life or it's going to make it a lot better, you know? And so, um, I applied that first time. I didn't hear anything back because i didn't check that last box like why would you contact somebody if they're not willing or not able to pay right and so i got a little bit of a resentment there i was like they didn't fucking email me back this

is bullshit like fuck these guys you know um and i think i had learned about aub I assume through Joe Rogan right um and I I had been listening to him since like the red band days of them doing it and I I listened to Ricky Gervais's first podcast you know Kevin Smith too I just it was a way to occupy my time like I didn't watch tv but I really enjoyed listening to podcasts and so I was an early adopter of podcasts. I listened to a lot of radio when I was a kid, whether it was, you know, I miss in the morning or Howard Stern or whatever. And so I really enjoyed that sort of like banter and just, and we just kind of have it in the background. And I think something about, um, about Aubrey, like intrigued me, you know, I was like, Oh about Aubrey like intrigued me you know I was

like oh this seems like an interesting guy and then started listening to his podcast um pretty early on like more or less kind of when he launched it and so when I heard about fit for service um part there was definitely a part of me that was resistant to it. I was like, oh, they're trying to do something that I already have. They're trying to manufacture community. I already have community. I don't fucking need this. But there was something there. There's just the littlest hint there.

And then Sarah Howitt came to the float center that I was working at during COVID. So my business basically shut down during COVID. At a PR and marketing company, we did mostly, it was mostly around events, like mostly around live events. And I had worked in the motorcycle industry for years. And it just kind of found my way into mostly, you know, I'd done a lot of product, um, launches worked with a ton of high name, you know, like companies out there. Um, but had just found this niche of like, really enjoyed working on events, you know, and working on sponsorship and, and promoting and like had found, had really felt

like I found my kind of like my niche anyway. So that completely shut down. I was like, shit, I got to find something to do. My friends own this float center, their manager quit. I was talking to them one day. I was like, this is, I can do this with my eyes closed. Like, this is super easy. Like you guys want me to do it? It'll occupy my time. And I can float as much as I want. Awesome. And so I did that.

And Sarah came in one day. And she was talking about how she's like, yeah, it's an assignment for this program that I'm in. And she said, we're going to Costa Rica. And I had been tracking Fit for Service still, even though I was pissed off at them, uh, because they didn't respond to me. Uh, and, and I was, and I don't know if I brought it up or if she brought it up, but we started talking about fit for service. And I was like, Oh, you know, I actually, I had applied for that and, you know, and I never heard back and we kind of talked through it and, and, um, and she was like, well, you should, you should apply again. She's like, it's amazing. Like it's, it's well worth it. And I was like, yeah, well, I'm, you know, not making really any money right now. And it's COVID and like, my mind and literally like that day or the next week or something i got a covid check that was like for the exact amount of the elemental games tuition so you know i talked to my wife and i was like i'm not asking for your permission

but this is what i'm doing you you know? It seems a little crazy, but it also seemed like exactly the right timing. And so, yeah, we did that. Went down to the Elemental Games. It was like clearly I did not look at the dates of it because it was two days after Sundance. And so, and I had done some crazy shit after, like right after Sundance. And it was always really difficult.

Like I had went and seen like social distortion in Las Vegas, like two days after Sundance. And like just things that I would not recommend to anybody ever had, you know, had a history of like going to Sturgis, like, right. Because it's the week after Sundance every year. And it was my work, you know, it's how I made a living. So I was like, I'm going to have to figure out a way to do it. And so I would basically go to Sturgis, do the things that I needed to do, go hike Bear Butte, camp by myself, bring my pipe with me and be like as spiritually centered as I could in the middle of like the biggest party in North America, basically. Um, and so I felt like I had a pretty good grasp of how to do that, but going to coming down to Texas for those elemental games, um, like really fucked me up.

Like I was, I was so blown open. Um, and in that moment, um, like I remember being, we were, there was like a Q and a right.

And actually this is, this is a great story that comes right back to you. So, um, I did not like you uh like right unfortunately that unfortunately is is more common than right from the beginning no and it was it was my like i saw this human that i wanted to be right like there were elements of you that i was like look at this fucking guy. Like,

you know, whatever, whatever my internal dialogue was, I was like, you know, meathead, whatever, whatever it was,

you know, and you were the first, um, the first lecture that I went to, I actually came late because of Sundance. And so that first lecture I walked into, I think it was like in a basketball court or something or somewhere yet. Right. Right. At Ob's parents. That's right. Cause we had nowhere else to go. Yeah. And so, and I could not sit still. I was in the back

and I was pacing back and forth and I was listening to you and I just felt my nervous system just like calm and calm and calm and calm. And by the end of it, I like went up to you and I gave you a big hug and I was like, that was exactly what I needed. And I have no idea what you fucking said, right? Like, I don't know. I don't know what the lecture was. I don't know what it was that you said. And I was like, oh, this is my guy. I'm like, what the, that you said and I was like oh this is my guy I'm like what the you know and it was like that first moment of like oh I'm exactly where I need to be um and so it just and it just built from there you know I mean there are humans from that you know Jake Hines you know like he's my guy like we are fucking homies till the end. Um, and I met him

there, you know? So, and there's, there's a bunch of those people that I met and that just opened up my world to something else that, and I think I had, I know I had this, you know, one of my, one of the things that I used to say to people constantly was like, I don't need any more friends. Yes, I'm good. Like, I don't need any more friends. And, and like, what a disservice, you know, to myself and to the world even, you know, not that I'm like some amazing human or anything, but just that, like, that I wouldn't be open to having new connections with

people because that's really what it's all about. Right. Food, water, touch of relatives, you know, and, but somehow I had gotten like, and I know part of it, you know, which is, you know, through being sober, I've had an inordinate amount of my friends die from alcohol. I mean, unbelievable amount of people that were very, very close to me. And so I think I had built up a real wall there around like, I'm not fucking doing this anymore. You know, like I'm not fucking doing this anymore. You know, like I'm not. And I was never the guy,

like if somebody went out and decided, you know, that they weren't an alcoholic anymore, they went out and drank that I'd be like, Oh, fuck you. I'm not talking to you anymore. I was always the human that was like, call them, check in, see how they're doing, keep up friendships, you know, as long as it was two way, I i'm into it you know um and like if they're living their life awesome you know um and so yeah it was that's that's kind of been and and i kind of made after that first you know after those elemental games and everything that happened there um like i kind of made a commitment to myself, like if this keeps paying dividends, I'm going to keep going.

And that, that's literally the, the reason, the why behind, like I've kept going because I keep seeing my life leveling up, you know, and it seems insane to a lot of people, you know, they're like, why would you keep going? Like why? And it's because every time there's something new, there's something that I learned. And I'm, you know, I'm going to be honest, like there are parts and pieces of it that I'm like, this isn't for me. Yeah. Same. You know, there's, there's parts and pieces that I'm like, this doesn't speak to me or this seems like bullshit or whatever. You know, I'm not like the, just like drink the Kool-Aid and like, this doesn't speak to me or this seems like bullshit or whatever.

You know, I'm not like the just like drink the Kool-Aid and like it's all fucking great, you know. But for the most part, it's fucking like it. There's there's something in there that I learn every fucking time that helps me be a better human, that helps me connect better with other people, that helps me, you know, in my business, that helps me be a better human that helps me connect better with other people that helps me you know in my business that helps me in my relationships that helps me i mean you know yeah there's there's so many stories that go along with that um that it would be hard to get into them all but yeah fit fit for service has has really uh has changed the trajectory of my life in the best way possible okay brother it does for me too and i could completely agree i i do completely agree on not all of it am i like fuck yeah drinking the kool-aid you know like we bring guests in and

and sometimes it's a really you know well-known high-end speakers as some shit where I'm like, no. Yeah. Like, fuck no. What are you talking about? But for the most part, it has been a catalyst for my growth and coming in with Godsey and even Aubrey. For the last six years, the leveling up that we've done together because of Fit for Service has been such a great thing. Every time we have an event, we're different people, you know,

like no man crossed the same river twice. Yeah. Right. And that's, that's been a catalyst for our growth. You know, Sedona was really hard because we were talking about it as the last, last Sedona. And I'm like, this is our last year, you know, like we should be telling the fucking truth, you know? And I know nobody wanted to admit it, but like this is our last year. Yeah. And Fit for Service may stick around as a name, but it'll never be what it was.

You know, these six years with Aubrey and with, you know, all the amazing people we've brought in, been able to meet, you know, Guy Senstock and Kathy and Courtney and, you know, Peter Krohn and Dr. Kelly Brogan. And the list goes on and on and on. I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it. Yeah, thinking about some of those. We're already doing a fucking fire talk down in the fire pit on this land, right? This is crazy. There's been some of the coolest, Charles Eisenstein, some of the coolest fucking people ever have come through there.

And people that I've loved and read books, you know, and been able to know and been able to meet and been able to to share with so it was it was really bittersweet for me in sedona thinking about you know this is the last time we're here and also feeling the impact yeah like there's nothing it's not a two-way conversation in the podcast this is one drawback is that like we can have a conversation this will go out to the masses i never hear what people take away from these podcasts you know like i might meet somebody in airport and they're like oh man the peter crone podcast wasn't was incredible you know and it's like oh fuck yeah

you know it changed me you know it was a great one um but being face to face with people that we've taken a deep dive with together especially this year you you know, with the, all the extra coaching we're doing with our classes, um, it's been pretty remarkable to see, you know, in the short duration of each trimester, each three months, you know, and then we meet up how much people are shifting and how it's impacting them, you know, and, uh, I don't get that anywhere else, you know, I don't know that I will get it anywhere else. So it's, um i think you will you'll figure it out we get i mean we're gonna morph into something i'm gonna morph into something i think we all i think this is the part of the story where we all take our individual paths yeah for a while and then maybe we circle back into something bigger yeah but um yeah this last one in malibu coming up it's it's it's bittersweet because i know it's the fucking last hurrah it's

the last yeah yeah we do all together this in this form yeah you know and that was a end of year one was there in malibu too the exact same place so that's quite fitting oh cool um we had paul selig come out and we got peter crone coming out for this one and lucas and hell are going to be there to assist with breath work and to lead us so right on so much good stuff there i wanted to you know we're we're at the out past the hour mark. Talk to me. You were a vegetarian.

Tell me when you got, you know, it's, it's interesting too, because of the veterinarian piece and the black and white thinking. And I love how you frame that. It's easy to understand. Yeah. Right. And I think a lot of people that make that switch, it is due to black and white thinking. Right.

Yeah. And also spiritually have not having an understanding either of spirit or of the Ouroboros or of how consciousness works. You know, this is folding and unfolding and let everything on the planet eating itself. Yeah. You know, like that's something to consider. But talk about your shift because, you know,

to me when I hear veterinarian and then vegan, I hear somebody that's deeply connected to animals from the beginning. When we hunted together, we're drawn from the animal day. And I was like, you get to learn about somebody too. Which deck are you using? Is it some airy-fairy Atlanta Fairchild shit? Or is it from Sedona? Or is it a deck like that?

It's one of the OG medicine decks. And it's all animals. So explain that to me because this is, this is a cool part of the story. All right, guys, last but not least, I want to tell you really quickly about Fit for Service. This is our last run in Fit for Service, my last run in Fit for Service. And it's the last big event we're going to do. We're still going to have smaller events next year and different offerings that we're going to pull out. Godsey and I will still be running full temple reset in February this, this winter. So I'm excited for that. That's our five-day fasting

mimicking event where Godzi drops a ton of knowledge on Jungian symbology and I break down everything we need to know about the body. We stretch every day and mobilize. We hit the sauna. We hit the ice bath. We do it all so we can actually live the practices that are beneficial for us. Head over to fitforservice.com and check out the upcoming events. If you want to participate in our final big last hoorah, you've got to come to Malibu. It's the only way, the last one. Check it out, fitforservice.com. Yeah, I think, you know, I think some people have a hard time understanding

how you can love animals and hunt them. And I think it's the greatest respect that you can give to them. And so, yeah, I got to this point in my life, especially with my health, where I felt really unhealthy. You know, I was eating all of the like fake meat things, fake bacon, fake chicken nuggets, fake everything. Right. And I felt like shit all the time. Right. I did not have the energy at that point. You know, I was, I was doing, um, triathlons, uh, blew up my Achilles, um, and, um, and had Achilles surgery, couldn't run anymore. Um, it was just, it was a really difficult time for me. I was having, um, a lot of pain, wasn't recovering the way that I wanted to. Um, and had this moment where

I was like, I think I want to eat meat, but I want to do it the right way, you know? And so I was lucky enough to have a mentor, one of my, one of my really good friends who, you know, a really good hunter, good human, um, who had traveled all over the world, um, had lived in Alaska, um, and hunted with the natives there. Um, he was the principal of a high school. So he got to go on their kind of traditional harvest where they harvest everything that you can think of. Um, and so, yeah, I asked him, you know, Hey, will you, will you help me? And so, which is a big, it's a big ask, right. And you've, you know, you've been hunting enough, um, to know that taking somebody out new, it's not, it can not be a lot of fun, right. Because then you're not hunting yeah because there's so much to

teach people um and he was so generous with his time and he had he had another hunting partner right like he had a guy that he went with um and they harvested animals and and but he wasn't really his vibe you know it was like driving around the utv drinking beer and like, you know, doing, and that just wasn't his vibe. And so when I asked him, he was like, I'd be honored. Like, let's, let's figure this out. And so he spent the time and took me out. And I just, I remember that first time we went out elk hunting and we were archery elk hunting hunting like the hardest thing that you can possibly do and we're sitting there in the you know dead fall and it's you know we're at eight nine thousand

feet um it's cold um and he's you know putting out bugles and all of a sudden you know some elk bugles back and i'm just just like, this is bull. I'm like, that's another hunter. That's not a fucking elk. You know, I'm like, that's not real. You know, and the next thing I know, there's a freaking elk charging in on us and is at like 20 yards. And I'm like, this is living. Like, this is like real life, you know.

And everything that could have possibly went wrong went wrong and we didn't end up killing that elk because that's the way archery elk kind of goes most of the time um but something shifted in me you know where i was like and so he was there when i harvested my first deer and i came to hunting later in life, you know, and I really started to realize that this connection between our food, um, and the land, you know, really actually brings us back to ourselves. Um, and so we, we hunted for a bunch of years together. Um, he ended up getting really sick. Um, he had an autoimmune disease, um, still has an autoimmune disease, and he can't hunt anymore. In that time, actually, this was like pre-COVID, I had actually come up with, I'd realized like, oh, what I'm going through, like learning to hunt later in life.

You know, I started hunting in my 30s. It was a real challenge. Like the barrier to entry is so high and so I started to put together this hunting school that was going to be like kind of a faux hunting we weren't going to actually hunt we were going to do everything and there were going to be thousands of people there we were going to take over the YMCA the Rockies I was going to partner with this kind of really well-known um hunting brand and and everything was working and then they got bought and that was the end of that. And I was like, okay, you know, cool. Like moving on.

And then I went up to a piece of land in Wyoming that, that my friend, you know, who had introduced me to hunting, he had introduced me to the landowner and the landowner was like, yeah, come up whenever you want. And so I went up there and, and, and my friend Mark, he couldn't hunt with me that year because he was sick, you know? And so, um, I was up there by myself and that's kind of what had happened. I had started hunting by myself and, uh, and I was talking to the landowner and he's like, I just love the way that you approach this. Like this is, we don't see this. Like we have people pay us money to kill animals. He's like, that's not what you're this. Like this is, we don't see this. Like we have people pay us money to kill animals. He's like, that's not what you're doing. And I was like, yeah,

no, that's not like I'm here because I respect that animals because I love them. And because I want to do it in the best way possible, you know? And he's like, man, I wish you'd bring more people up here. And I was like, really? He's like, yeah. And I was like, well, and I kind of told him about what I had done before. And he was like, well, you know, yeah, let's do it. You know, like tell me, tell me how it's going to happen and what, what's going to happen. And like, let's see if we can do it. And so I spent that week actually hunting up there.

But during the day, you know, when the deer not doing anything, I was just writing a business plan. You know, I started writing that business plan and started writing like everything out the next week I sent it to him. I was like, Hey John, like, this is what I'm thinking. And he's like, let's do it, you know? Um, and so that was, that was during COVID and then, um, had my first, um, my first school, um, that next year. Um, and so, and it actually kind of got born in, in Sedona, you know, like four years ago or whatever. Um, because I was talking to some of the guys there, cause I had been kind of noodling around with the idea. Um, and I was talking to some of the guys there that I I had been kind of noodling around with the idea. Um, and I was talking to some of the guys there that I was with, you know, and they were like, do it. Like I'll

sign up. Awesome. You know, and you know, some of them did honestly. Um, and so it was, it was a really, and what I found was that by going through that process and by going through, like I learned a ton, but also it gave my friend Mark this opportunity to be able to teach, right. Which he hadn't been able to go out and hunt for years at that point. And so to give him the opportunity to like help put the curriculum together and like, it just like lit him up. Like hadn't been i mean he every summer he would get hospitalized you know like it was it was really rough there for a while um and so it gave him this like zest for life again that i was like oh this is important not just for the collective but like for him and for me and for our relationship, you know?

And so we put together this killer curriculum. We put together, you know, what I think is a great in-person experience. And now we're actually launching kind of our online piece, which I think is really, it's just a lot more accessible. A lot of people can't go out and actually, they can't afford it a, you know, to go out. Cause we lease, you know, 60,000 acres in Colorado, 6,000 acres in Wyoming. And then another, you know, I think we were on 25,000 acres, you know, last week when we were doing our pronghorn hunt, it's expensive, you know? It's just, it's just the way it is.

And a lot of people can't afford that. So by doing this online piece that we'll be launching, it gives people the opportunity to basically have that mentor that I had, all the knowledge, like decades of knowledge, to try to make it so you can have the most ethical kill you can possibly have, right, and honor that animal in the best way possible. Make it so you can have the most ethical kill you can possibly have. Right. And honor that animal in the best way possible. And so it's been it's been really like enriching to my life. And now, honestly, like I like taking people out more than I like going out on my own.

It's a weird it's it's strange. But like if I had the choice i'd be like no i definitely want to take somebody out instead um yeah you have enough experience you know what you're doing with as far as like the solo journeys but is that there is something super gratifying about teaching yeah and that knowledge on oh yeah and to your point you know like that my first hunt was the everything gone wrong you know like yeah i'd been on several hunts when I was a kid but I was just camping for me and I was lucky they'd bring home some back strap and we'd eat there and yeah I was just remember how early it was in the morning you know or they wake me up and I'd roll out of the

bunk like oh god you guys are doing this now but yeah I started in my 30s as well you know listening yeah guys like John Lillian, Rogan's podcast, it's like the Remy Warren, all those guys. And, um, I, I had, uh, we scored lotto tags for a rifle in, um, Eastern, Eastern Oregon in the town of Joe's Joseph, chief Joseph, chief Joseph. And it was me and a good buddy of mine. Um, and he hadn't been hunting in years, you know, but he was the guide, you Joseph, Chief Joseph. And it was me and a good buddy of mine. Um, and he hadn't been hunting in years, you know, but he was the guide, you know, and I had borrowed his brother's gun

and literally, I mean, six, we saw the ass of one elk. It's like all the things that you don't want borrowing a gun. Somebody who's not super experienced. No zeroing either. Like, I mean, I literally, I did. I I'm happy we didn't get a chance to shoot because I had no fucking clue about anything. You know, I just didn't even know. I didn't get a chance to shoot because I had no fucking clue about anything. You know, I just didn't even know. I didn't even know what the round was. Yeah. You know, but that went so bad that that was like the fire lit under my ass.

Like, it was like, you know, this was an expensive six days of just hiking around 15 miles a day. Yeah. And it was like fucking snow up and down mountains in Oregon to come up that short. I was like, I know I can do this better. Yeah. And, and that's what made me seek out, you know, different people. I remember when I, I think not long after I first moved here, I heard about Monsel and met, um, on a hunt, uh, with Paul Saladino, you know, carnivore guys, one of my homies.

And, um, you know, I, I certainly living in Texas, you know, especially through 2020, wanted to be more adept at self-protection and being able to provide for my family. So I got in with Tim Kennedy, who was already a friend, and started doing sheepdog courses. And they offered one that was a precision rifle course, which was like your intro, you know, for hunting, right? Your intro is shooting up to 500 yards. Tucker Max introduced me to Clay martin who's a marine recon sniper he's been on the podcast and then we are actually started shooting distance stuff and learning about that and uh elevation and windage and all the fun stuff you know and yeah and um i felt pretty good going in for the hunt with you you know and we were successful with

christian pity it was awesome yeah but like the the there is something to the the leveling up that takes place from it and the progression that takes place from it but also the challenge of it never fucking fades no it doesn't matter how good you get at shooting right like it just it just fucking becomes it's always unique and especially if you you hunt in different places like hunting and malachi with bow incredibly challenging being where we were you know we're doing rifle but it's 33 mile an hour fucking wind at 9 000 feet elevation we got to go up and down two mountains just to get to the one there's no trees anywhere right just to be behind one rock with the right windage so we can shoot at this herd of 300 cows you know that are all just hanging out you know like the anywhere else we would have been spotted or smelled, you know, like for sure. There's,

there's so much to that, that, that builds respect and reverence for how we put food on the table. You know, and I feel the same way about regenerative agriculture and what we're doing here at the farm, but there is something to that, that, that connection to our food in a way that, that is beyond just eating something healthy, right? Like this is something I'm deeply connected to on a spiritual level. Um, I really started thinking about that. I had been on a few hunts, but when Wolf was born, when she was in the womb, we did a harvest at Rome ranch and bear sat on my lap as we harvested a bison and he, he helped me field dress it. And that bison went into my wife's body and built our daughter. That's a whole different fucking relationship to food.

So it's something that I continue to love and appreciate. That's been a huge, an unknown unfolding that would take place later in life for me, but it's such a beautiful piece. And to your point, there's so much shit that if I had just done it ahead of time would have made life a lot easier you know and so i love the fact that you have this school and now it's going to be available online because there really is a lot you know even going with pity and i'm not pooping on pity he's my boy yeah but it was like you know that scope's from fucking 1976 you gotta upgrade bud it's just not and he couldn't cut it you know what i'm

saying and there's just there's newer tech there's newer things we can do here that'll help bridge the gap sure you know and um yeah i'm very fortunate to know you and that people like you exist to bridge that gap for people because i feel like so many people coming out of cities and you know through covet are like i'd like to know how to kill my own animal i'd like to know how to do this the right way and um it's amazing that you're out there doing what you're doing, brother. Well, I appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, I think there's so many things that we can do to help the learning curve. And I think about it like optimization, you know, it's like physical optimization. Like you gave me so much and physically fit

that I just didn't know. And I feel like we're, we're doing something really similar with hunting, you know, like I have, and it's hysterical because I make very specific recommendations about firearms, like, and rounds that they should be using for specific hunts. And the people that pay attention and like actually do what I recommend, they do great. You know, the ones that don't, I'm like, I don't know why your rifle is jamming. I've never even heard of that rifle. I don't even know what that is.

And so we really help people get to the point where they can have the chance of being successful. And so it's not just, it's not just new hunters either. Right? Like we have a lot of people that have been out like multiple years that have never harvested anything that are like, okay, what am I doing wrong? And we're like, we take them out there and they're like, oh, there's like eight things that I never even thought of, you know, that I just didn't know because I hadn't gone out with people. I just tried to teach myself, which is a way of doing it. But the learning curve is just so steep. And so we just try to kind of level that out some, um, and give them the opportunity to be able to, you know, really have an experience and then honor

that animal, be able to, you know, tell the story of that animal afterwards. Like every time they serve it to somebody, you know, every time they have it themselves, like they remember like that moment that that animal offered themselves to them, you know, to sustain them. And that's, that's, that's a big deal to me. So. It's a huge deal, brother. Yeah. Yeah. Well, is there anything else that we, we didn't cover? I see you got a little notepad. There's anything.

No, not at all. No, it was just, it was just my reminders. We're, we're, we're all good.

Um, where can people find you if they want to contact you on social media? Where can people look up your, your hunting school? Yeah. Ancestral hunting school. Um, that's,

that's where we are. Ancestral hunting school.com and ancestral ancestral hunting school on, on social media. And I'm just Ken Conti, all one word underscore on Instagram. Beautiful brother. Well, I love you deeply. I love you too. That was so fun. Awesome brother.

Right on. Thanks so much.