Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #38 Todd White From Dry Farm Wines

Episode Date: June 18, 2018

Todd White is the CEO Dry Farm Wines- an organic/ biodynamic farmed wine that boasts only 1g carbohydrate per bottle. He is an avid meditator, does 22 hour fasts daily, ketogenic dieter, and all around amazing human. Dry Farm Wines on Instagram Twitter and Facebook Get a second bottle of wine for 1 penny Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on Twitter and on Instagram Get 10% off at Onnit by going to Onnit.com/Podcast              Onnit Twitter        Onnit Instagram

There is no better biohack than a good night's sleep. It prevents burnout, helps you make better decisions, improves your memory, consolidates memory. I mean, there's a lot of science behind sleep. And I talked about this before, but you listen to a guy like Michael Walker on the Joe Rogan podcast or read his book, Why We Sleep, he is incredibly dialed in on the science of sleep. And one of the things we have when we sleep is memory consolidation. That means when we learn something new, our brain will file that out of the short-term RAM, random access memory, into our long-term memory where we can actually embody and ingrain this into our being. So we can actually have something long-term. We

understand this new skill. We understand this second language. It comes to us as we need it in the future. That all happens when we sleep. It's the most important thing we do for cognitive function. It's the most important thing we do for cellular health in the brain. When we talk about clearing out things like amyloid beta plaque, what leads to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, dementia, all these things happen.

This cellular renewal and cleaning out effect happens when we sleep. What else happens? Well, if we lose sleep, we have a bump in a hormone called ghrelin. That goes up. It's a fight or flight hormone. It's also the hormone that makes us hungry during the day. So if you've ever lost the night of sleep and you notice the next day you were a bottomless well that couldn't be fed, that's the hormone ghrelin. Ghrelin goes up, leptin goes down. Leptin is a

hormone that makes us feel full and satiated. So to say that sleep is important for total human optimization, that is a fucking understatement. There is no single thing you do that's more important for fat loss, cognitive function, recovery gains, and all of it. So why sleep on a shitty mattress? There's just no point to doing that. Lisa has made the best mattress I've ever slept on for a fraction of the price of other big name brands like Tempur-Pedic. It ships right to your door, highly convenient.

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all possible aspects of human optimization is going to talk to you about alcohol, but bottom line is I'm aspects of human optimization, is going to talk to you about alcohol. But bottom line is, I'm a fucking human being. And I like to alter my states of consciousness. I like to play with different substances. That's not a mystery. But really, when you think of what is America's drug, what is the drug that we all take? What's the sacrament that we use to open ourselves up, to dumb down our inhibitions and laugh a little harder and talk a little bit more openly and intimately with one another, to dance a little more freely and not give a fuck what other people think about? It's alcohol, right? And there's a right way and a wrong way to do anything. And that's why I want

to talk to you guys about Dry Farm Wines. We've brought on Todd White for today's episode, the CEO of dry farm wines, who's just a fucking fantastic guy. And we're going to dive in a lot of what makes this wine so special, but truly it is one of the best wines I've ever had. It's organically or biodynamically farmed. That means absolutely no pesticides, herbicides, or chemical sprays. Bottom line is you don't get hung a hangover from it. Now, now of course you can have five, 10 bottles of that. I'd be hung over, but there's one gram of carbohydrate

per bottle. That means I can stay in a ketogenic diet while consuming this wine. And I can have a couple of bottles of wine and not feel like shit the next day. I can't say that about any other alcoholic beverage on the planet. So you want to optimize alcohol consumption? There's no better way than Dry Farm Wines. It's been promoted by a ton of top health leaders, guys we've had on the show, guys we want on the show, Dr. Dominic D'Agostino, who's coming on in a few months, Mark Sisson, Rob Wolf, Abel James, JJ Virgin, Dr. David Perlmutter, who wrote Grain Brain and Brain Maker,

just fantastic people that are in this space, moving the needle on health and wellness, all supporting this company. I think it's absolutely phenomenal. If you go to dryfarmwines.com forward slash on it, you can get an extra bottle for a penny. These are the best bottles of wine you're ever going to have. Test them out. dryfarmwines.com forward slash on it. Our guest today is Todd White. He is the CEO of Dry Farm Wines. Dry Farm Wine has taken every step possible to make sure that when you get drunk or you want to have a good time that you don't pay consequences for your actions. Now, obviously, there's a right way and a wrong way to do anything in life. And I think the way we break it down in this episode really shows the detail of how many steps these guys take to ensure that you can have a good time without suffering for it. Thanks for listening. On a podcast, Todd, how you doing, brother?

I am awesome, man. Excited to be here and just anxious to share my story about wine. Yes, I love that. Let's let that anxiety out of the bag. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. We got dry fine wine. How about excited? Here we go.

I'm not anxious, I'm excited. Well, we've been running around like chickens with their head cut off at paleo fx which is an excellent event each year but it's also one that's uh it's hectic to say the least you know there's a lot of people i'm sure you're getting pulled in 30 different directions at once and uh you work with quite a few of the influencers there i think i first do virtually every influencer at paleo fx is a partner of ours or endorses our product or has written about us in books and so uh yes you know it's nice to be in this quiet studio because when you're in that hall with all that noise and people it's you know it's nice to be out of there and over here at your quiet office yeah i had this idea that i was going to podcast

uh in tandem you know side by side with barbell shrugged and they have that nice little studio um i guess it's by the movement area uh well people have that haven't been to paleo effects won't know what the fuck i'm talking about so pointless just to describe the location it's just a huge building it is lots of people and a ton of people and incredibly loud and the second i saw them podcasting i was like this does not sound this is not going to sound well for people so let me see who i can snake back over i really appreciate you taking your time to come here i'm happy to be here so let's let's jump right in you know you guys have a wine that's different from anything available in the market and uh you know wine is my favorite drunk. It always has been. But there's also a consequence for that drunk.

And that usually has to do with some of the issues with how the wine is made and some of the additives thrown in there. And, you know, that's not a renewable experience that I want to get back to. It's something that I'll do, you know, here and there. But my wife and I had the opportunity to polish a bottle. She's not a big person, but we went through a bottle last night together. Zero hangover. Oh, wow. We did give you that bottle yesterday. So you drank it last night. Yep. No hangover whatsoever. It was amazing wine too.

It's absolutely incredible. Yeah. Yeah. It was amazing wine. Well, let's dive down into what this is about. So what's happened in the wine supply is exactly the same thing that has happened in our food supply. So we've got a handful of characters manufacturing most of the wine. So there's been massive corporate consolidation driven by greed and money. The same thing has happened in our food supply. So I'm going to share a bunch of dirty, dark secrets about the wine industry with your audience today. We'll start with this consolidation. What's happened is 52% of all the wines

manufactured in the United States are made by just three giant conglomerates. The top 30 companies make just over 70% of all the wines in the United States. Dry Farm Wines, the company that I founded, we do not sell any domestic wines. There are no domestic wines made in the U.S. that meet our health criteria, and we'll talk about what that means in a moment. So you've got massive consolidation. Your audience doesn't know this because when they walk into a bottle shop or a grocery store, they see hundreds of different bottles. The fact is that these companies, these massive conglomerates, hide behind thousands of bottles and labels. So these multi-billion dollar conglomerates hide behind thousands of bottles and labels. So these

multi-billion dollar conglomerates who are manufacturing most of the wine in the United States are hidden to your listeners and to all of us because they're hidden behind all these brands. What they want to do is sell story and have you believe that you're drinking from a farmhouse or a chateau, when in fact what you're really drinking from is from a massive factory in Central California, which is where most of these wines are made. So anyway, that's the first point of what's happened in the wine business over the last 50 years. More importantly, and as you mentioned in your opening comments, the other couple of dark secrets that your audience doesn't know about

is that there are 76 additives approved by the FDA. And all of the facts that I'm going to share with you, including the size of the industry and all the facts that I'm about to share with you, you can easily find online. So all of this, if you- Google it, folks. Yeah, yeah. If you Google it, I mean, this is not marketing spin. This is like the real fucking deal, right? If you Google FDA wine additives, you'll go right to the government page that shows you the 76 additives that are approved by the FDA for the use in winemaking. This is not only an American problem. This is a global problem. There are 56 of these

additives approved by the EU. So here's how you don't know about these additives. Wine is the only major food group without a contents label on the bottle, right? So you don't know what's in it. And the reason there's not a contents label on the bottle is because the wine industry has spent millions of dollars in lobby money to fight contents labels on the bottle. Just like Monsanto fighting to keep GMO off the label. Exactly. And so the reason that they don't off the label. Exactly. And so the reason that they don't want the label on there is because they don't really want you to know

what's in it. Because most wines, almost all wines, if they had a contents label on it, would look just identical to the labels that you see on other processed foods. So it'd have a whole bunch of chemicals and oftentimes dyes and other color agents in the wine that you had no idea that existed in the wine. The wine industry wants you to believe that it's just fermented grape juice, right? But in fact, it's not. It's not even real wine. What we sell and drink, what I gave you yesterday that you drank, is real wine, what we call honest wine, a philosophy of artisanal pure wines, right? So the wine that you drank yesterday, which was one of my favorite grapes, the Plussard,

it was grown in the Jura region in France. All of the wines that we sell, primarily we have four producers in South Africa and the rest of our producers are spread across Europe. We work with about 300 family farms. They're very, very small farms that make what are known categorically as natural wines. A natural wine is a confusing term to most consumers because most everyone believes that all wines are natural. Isn't wine a natural product? Well, in fact, it's not. Most of the wines manufactured in the United States

and across the world are industrially farmed, meaning that they're using herbicide and pesticide and other chemicals and nitrogen, and very importantly in the U.S., also irrigation. You may know the name of our company is Dry Farm Wines, and what that means is that all of our wines are grown without any irrigation. You may know the name of our company is Dry Farm Wines, and what that means is that all of our wines are grown without any irrigation. So they're grown completely naturally, right? And that's the foundation for us of a natural wine. And then all chemical-free organic or

biodynamic farming. And then very importantly, I know it will resonate with you, is that natural wines are fermented with wild native yeast that are indigenous to the vineyard where the grape is grown. And what that means is that every grape grown has yeast on the skin. It collects it through the air. And in a natural wine is spontaneously uses spontaneous fermentation. In other words, they're fermenting with this wild yeast that's on the skin of the grape. Commercial wines, including all the wines you see in your grocery store and most every wine you see in a bottle shop, is fermented with genetically modified

commercial yeast that's bred in a lab. And we don't really know what that means from a health point of view because there's no real studies on it. We just know the experience that you had when you drink this bottle of wine, you feel differently than when you drink a commercial wine, right? And so in addition to that, there are no additives, alterations, or changes to these wines. So once they're fermented, they go into tank for storage or aging, and out comes the natural wine product without any additions or subtractions to it. In addition to that, Dry Farm Wines, uniquely, we're the only health-quantified wine merchant in the world. We do independent lab testing on every wine, and we're looking for several things in those lab

tests. First of all, it has to be sugar-free, and most commercial wines contain sugar. I'm ketogenic. I've been ketogenic for about four years, and most of the people I work with are also keto. In addition to that, we just avoid sugar. So sugar is one thing that we're looking for. Alcohol is another. We don't sell any wines over 12.5% alcohol. Alcohol is toxic and dangerous. And one of the things that cause you to feel bad and have hangovers is the dehydration caused by excess alcohol. Commercial wines today have been rising in alcohol content for about a decade. Today, commercial wines generally land somewhere between 14.5% and 17% alcohol.

Most of the wines I drink, the wine I gave you yesterday was 12%. Most of the wines I drink are between 11% and 12% alcohol. But here's another dark secret of the wine industry. If it reads 14% in the grocery store, now most people don't even notice how much alcohol is in wine. They just think it's just wine. But actually the alcohol can vary quite dramatically. But here's another collusion between the U.S. government and the wine industry

is that the alcohol stated on a bottle of wine, by law, is not required to be accurate. So if it reads 14%, under the law, it can be as high as 15.5%, and you don't know it. So we lab test every wine looking for alcohol, sugars, mycotoxins like ocrotoxin A, which is mold that you hear a lot in the coffee industry. U.S. wines are not required to test for mycotoxins. So no U.S. wine is tested. The only time a U.S. wine gets tested for ocrotoxin A or other mycotoxins is if it's exported to Europe where testing is required. So there's a lot to know about how to drink a natural, clean product. And you could probably also comment on, I mean, it tastes different. It's cleaner. It's more friendly with food. Alcohol is not friendly with food.

Yeah, it was smooth. And one thing that I mean, obviously, there's a couple of things I want to touch on there. Number one, younger people are going to be like, don't we want more alcohol? Isn't the point to get drunk? And the thing is, I'm not a big drinker, being in ketosis most of the year, things like that. But I do like drinking socially. And I also don't like to pay for that in the long term. I don't want to have to sacrifice the day coming up as a dad with a three-year-old who has balls to the wall energy all day long because I paid for it the night before. And so it is nice to have something where I can get that good clean buzz and really experience that in the evening that I choose.

And then when it's over, it's over. There's no lingering consequences of that. Or what I would call negative remnants. Yeah. And I want you to talk about something that Mark was talking to me about, one of the guys that works for you. He's been at the booth and really clued me in on quite a bit of your product. You talk about the fact that you guys are dry farm wines and the difference between using irrigation and not. And he talked

about, you know, roots curling up when the water comes from the top versus diving down as deep as 30 feet to find water and what that looks like with the microbiome of the soil. Can you dive into that a bit? Yeah. So an irrigated grapevine, irrigation is very new to grape farming. So irrigation didn't come to the United States until 1973. Now virtually every grapevine in the United States is irrigated. The only reason you irrigate a grapevine is to increase yield and to create a heavier fruit. So when the berry is filled with water, it weighs more. Now, there's a whole host of problems associated with that, and I'll talk about a few of them. But you irrigate a grapevine for money, right? It's illegal in most of Europe to irrigate grapevines. It's a crime.

It's against the law, right? These appellation-based rules are very strict as to how you can treat a grapevine. It's illegal to irrigate in most of Europe. And the reason being is Europeans who've been making wine for over 3,000 years know what we know. The moment you fill the berry, and this will make common sense to you, the moment you fill a berry, a grape berry, with water, you dilute the concentration of flavor. You dilute the character of the fruit. So just from a quality point of view, filling the berry up with water just doesn't,

it makes for a lower quality fruit, a lower quality wine. But in an irrigated grapevine, you have a root ball that's about three feet in diameter, right? Because the vine gets all of its nutrient. It's also fed liquid nitrogen through the same tube, right? So it's getting fertilizer through the same tube. So there's a little tube just above the trunk of the vine, and that's where it gets its water source from. An unirrigated grapevine will have a root structure that can be 30, 40, 50 feet deep as it struggles in its search for water and nutrient. Now, that struggle is really fundamental to the character of the fruit and the quality of

the fruit that the vine puts out, because it's struggling not only against the earth to find moisture and nutrient, but it's also struggling against its neighbor and fighting against its neighbor, which is why grapevines are planted close together, is this intentional desire by the farmer to create this struggle between the plants, right? And so that struggle builds character in the fruit, just like in resistance training, right? Just like in anything that creates resistance builds power, right? The same thing in nature and in farming. When the vine has to struggle, that struggle creates a stronger character of fruit. And so, again, irrigation for grape farming is largely an American idea. And grapevines have been living without irrigation all over the planet for about 10,000 years.

Talk a bit about how pesticides and herbicides – I mean, obviously, I went down the rabbit hole with Max Lukavere, the author of Genius Foods. Excellent guy. I love Max. Great guy. Phenomenal guy. We were talking about polyphenols in dark chocolate and olive oil and really why those

are created by the plant and how herbicides and pesticides really minimize the production of polyphenols. It's true. It's true. So you'll have significantly higher polyphenol production in organically farmed fruit as opposed to industrially farmed food. We only drink and sell organic or biodynamic wines. Biodynamic is a prescriptive form of organic farming. So you can search on the internet. We don't go down the wormhole. Rudolph Steiner. Yeah, it's Rudolph Steiner. Okay. So there are just over 800 polyphenols in red wine. There are significantly fewer in white wines, which is the reason red wine is

thought to be the healthier choice of the two wines. The polyphenols primarily get in wine from skin contact, with contact with the seed and the skins. And for those in your audience who don't know exactly how wines are made, if you squeeze the grape of a red grape, if you squeeze the juice from a red grape and you squeeze the juice from a white wine grape, they're both clear. Both will be clear. Red wine gets its color from contact with the skin during a period called maceration. So what happens is that you press the juice from the red wine grape, it's clear, put it into a tank and add the skins and seeds back into the tank, and it's from the skins that red wine gets its color. And so it's also skin

and seed contact where most of the polyphenol content comes in. And as Max noted, and as you mentioned, polyphenol content is much, much richer in an organically farmed grape. Yeah. And it's one of the cool things that I've been learning about just in product development here at Onnit. Most of the time we think of polyphenols, people associate that with just like general positivity. Like, oh, it's an antioxidant or oh, it's this or that. And you just lump it into some cool category scientists just told you you need to fill. Really, they facilitate so much more than that. They can help with cross reactions in the body.

They can potentiate all other chemical reactions in the body. Just from a nitric oxide standpoint alone, polyphenols help upregulate ENOS and make more nitric oxide from the abundance of arginine. So without polyphenols, you're pigeonholing yourself. You're bottlenecking your own production of this wonderful thing that gives us a pump that makes men erect or gets the juices flowing for women. It works for both sexes.

But yeah, it's pretty fascinating stuff. I was just interviewing Dr. David Perlmutter earlier today, and he talked about the really positive impact that they also have on gut biome. And so, as well as fermented foods and other sources of these gut biome positive impact. So I want to come back to the ketosis thing for a moment because I think we're known as the keto wine. Dr. Dominic D'Agostino, who I'm sure you know his work. That's who I first heard about you guys. Oh, okay. He was the guy that put you on my radar. Right. So Dr. Dom endorses our wine and has lab tested himself with our wine. So our wines will not take you out of ketosis. I drink one to two bottles a night, usually about a bottle, bottle a day. We do blood testing

as the gold standard for ketosis. It has no impact on either my blood glucose or ketone production because there's no sugar in it. And so it will not take you out of ketosis. The wonderful thing about wine that, and you touched on this earlier, I think that the great thing about wine is that wine, and particularly these low alcohol clean wines where you're going to feel great and have an energetic buzz, is that it just lifts up, it just lifts the euphoria. It actually has been shown to enhance creative expression in low doses of alcohol, right? I mean, there's a point where we get to a dosage level, and this is the reason that spirits are particularly concerning,

is that when we reach an alcohol dosage level that takes us out of creative expression, we start to get messy, right? So the way we enjoy wine is around the dinner table. Even though we're in the wine business, and it's very common to drink in the daytime in the wine business. None of us do tastings or drink during the daytime. I don't recommend that people drink during the daytime in part because it's going to shut down fat burning. I mean, anytime we take in, you know, a substrate energy source, it can't be, that can't be absorbed by the body.

Like alcohol is an example. We're going to shut down fat burning and the body is going to turn its attention to dealing with this energy source that's come in exogenously. As a result, I don't drink during the daytime. I also don't like the experience. But around the dinner table, and particularly with family and friends and new friends and old friends alike, one of the reasons alcohol is bonding is because it raises up this sense of euphoria,

this sense of place and moment. It's kind of magical in that way. It's poetry in a bottle. It's very ethereal in this way. It's poetry in a bottle, right? It's very ethereal in this way. And it also lowers our window of vulnerability, right? And increases our ability to love, right? And anytime you can find any kind of potion, in my view, that increases your ability to love and express yourself, this is a pretty wonderful thing. It's America's favorite drug.

It really is. Other than coffee, maybe. Yeah, other than coffee. But I think Aubrey Marcus and myself are no strangers to a laundry list of chemicals. And there's a right way and a wrong way to do anything. And I think it's absolutely fantastic that you're making something that's so popular, really accessible to people that's positive. And I don't know how large the keto audience is that listens to this podcast. I've only recently

had a couple of keto guests on, and it's something that's a big part of my life. I'm pretty outspoken about it, was on Rogan's. But one thing that i try to drive home to people is that even if you're not in ketosis you don't want to have shit carbohydrate sources you know if you're going to eat carbs do it right and you certainly don't want to drink your carbs you you know if you're going to eat a sweet potato with dinner go for it you know i recommend people read wired to eat by rob wolf so you can figure out which carbohydrates are right for you. But regardless of that, you don't want to slam them through protein shakes and different sources outside of real food. So it's really nice that that's something you're looking for in the wine because I certainly don't want to drink sugar ever, whether I'm choosing to carb backload

or it's summertime and you're being a little bit more open with carbohydrate backloading, maybe the training's picked up. Bottom line is I shouldn't be taking that in through liquid, you know? No question about it. And you certainly don't want it hidden. So in other words, sugar is hidden in wines. And because the acid in wines can be quite high, you can't, even as professional tasters, we can't taste sugar. The only way we know whether a wine is sugar-free is to lab test it. Because if the acid level is high, and it's just like when you make lemonade, you can add a bunch of sugar and it still tastes sour, right? And so

it's the same thing in wine. It can contain sugar, but even as a professional, I can't taste it. And I certainly don't want to drink it. And so there are oftentimes hidden sugars in wine. If I'm going to eat sugar, if I choose to do that, at least like to know that I'm doing it, right? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, for sure. For sure. The other interesting thing about what we do is that we're making a small contribution on making the planet a safer place without industrial farming practices. And also supporting, we work, these natural farms are very small. You can't make wine in any real quantity without the use of chemicals and additions

because it's too risky for bacterial invasions. There are too many risks when you start making wine. Same reason that winemaker uses a commercial yeast as opposed to the native indigenous yeast is because it's too difficult to work in any quantity with these native yeasts. They're too fragile. They're too temperamental. They require too much coddling by the winemaker, which is the reason that when a commercial winemaker makes their wine using a commercial yeast, the first thing they do is pour sulfur dioxide into the juice to kill the native yeast because they don't want the native yeast being a part of the commercial yeast. So they kill the native yeast and then they inoculate it with this commercial

yeast. But these are small family farms, so we're able to support oftentimes multi-generational landowners across the world who are farming responsibly and farming chemically free. Yeah, I think it's a beautiful thing. And something that's overlooked, oftentimes, we just take what our government tells us as truth and, oh, hey, how would they put that in the food supply if it's bad for us? Well, look no further than fucking aspartame. Look no further than glyphosate. Like when there's big fucking money on the table, they don't give a shit how you turn out they really don't it's about money and greed and on the glyphosate issue i

don't your audience may have seen on social media because it's been pushed around quite a bit particularly within our audiences uh that glyphosate has been found in american wines um in a study two years ago um across three appachians in California by a group out of Minneapolis called Better Moms for America did a glyphosate study on both organic and non-organic farms. And this is really interesting. The glyphosate was found present in both organic and non-organic farms, and it's speculated now that how it's getting in the wine is through irrigation. Because the way glyphosate or Roundup is applied, and I might mention Roundup is the number one applied herbicide in U.S. vineyards by a wide margin.

It's commonly used even in your top populations. The way it's applied is very close to the ground, and it's typically hand applied. It doesn't really create an environment for overspray, right? So if you're talking about wheat farming where glyphosate is being applied from the air, you know, from a crop duster, you've got, it's very common to have now overspray issues on to neighboring organic wheat farms. However, in grape farming, that's not the way it's applied. It's applied very, very close to the ground, right underneath the vine. And so there's not really an opportunity for classic overspray. So it's now being speculated that in fact, it's getting in the wine through irrigation.

Which is another reason that, if that's true, that's not been proven, but if that's true, it's another reason to drink dry farm wines. Not my dry farm, but any dry farm wine, which is going to be primarily wines from Europe. Yeah, and it's really concerning you know i mean not to people who don't know but the more you know the more you're kind of like oh fuck this is this is an issue if it's an organic wine it's an issue if it's in our water supply because that means we're taking this in even if we're not knowingly or choosing to do so and one of the things that that has become very to me, and Dr. David Promutter is big on this as well, is the fact that when we spray glyphosate, a known carcinogen, it destroys the microbiome of the soil, which hurts the earth long-term. And it also fucks up our microbiome, which is, as put in his work in Grain Brain 2013, Brain Maker 2015, two excellent books, 80 to 90 percent of our neurotransmitters are made by our gut microbiome so when we start to alter that we're really messing up neurochemistry we're

messing up how we sleep how we think how we feel how we operate in the world cognitive ability and executive function it all takes place in the gut first so as we tamper with that we're fucking up the whole system you know it's not just um i pooped weird i hadper with that, we're fucking up the whole system. You know, it's not just, um, I pooped weird. I had diarrhea. It's like, we're really altering this entire organism to be a human. Well, and then the rampant overuse of antibiotics and all the other Western medicine that, uh, I mean, he talked about that this morning in an interview as well, that, you know, Western medicine is not designed to keep people healthy. It's designed to sell pharmaceuticals. And you and your audience and

us, we spend a lot of time and effort eating clean, trying to stay chemical free. I don't even use commercial toothpaste. I make my own toothpaste. I'm just, you know, one of the things about our company that I think people really get a sense and feel for is that, you know, we live like you, we walk the walk, right? So this is not marketing spin. I'm not here trying to sell wine, you know, with a bunch of marketing spin. The fact is we're in this business because we're health fanatics. We wanted a better way to drink, and we went down this path of kind of biohacking wine and discovered these processes quite by accident. Just because I'd gotten to a place where I couldn't drink. I've been a lifelong wine drinker.

I love to drink wine. I got to the place not long after I became pretty serious about a ketogenic diet. I just got to the place where I just couldn't drink wine anymore. I quit drinking for a while in a period I refer to as suffering through sobriety. I did 18 months. Yeah, I'm not into it. I'm not into it. So what I'm really into is drinking pure, clean, healthy, natural wines. And there just wasn't an outlet for that. The other amazing thing about these wines is that because they're not well understood, they're not that expensive.

So these are all handcrafted wines that average in price about $22 a bottle, which for a fine artisan handcrafted wine product, that's a pretty reasonable price. So even if you go in your grocery store and look at kind of leading American brands, you're going to see them at $25 and $30 for like well-known. Average bullshit. Yeah, kind of house brands. And it doesn't matter what you pay for a bottle of wine. Typically, whether you pay $150 or $15, you're drinking chemicals, right?

Or additives of one kind or another. Yeah, and you got to pay for that later, no matter what. Well, you're going to pay for it at the moment. I was on a plane the other day and actually drank a commercial wine, a well-known wine in California that sells for about $75 a bottle retail. And I was not even halfway into the first glass. I don't normally drink on planes, but for whatever reason, wherever I was, I was going to take a nap or something.

I decided to have some wine. And I got a headache pretty immediately. So I'm super sensitive to it now. I can feel it. And you can also taste it it and you can smell it. Once you're away from it, once you drink a natural wine, which virtually no one has drank because they're very difficult to get, we're the largest buyer and seller of natural wines in the world.

And one of the reasons is that it remains so affordable is that they're just so – they're not known and they're difficult to sell, difficult for the producer to sell. Until we came along, the way Americans buy wine is they walk in and they buy a brand they know. And that brand that they know is supported by massive advertising campaigns. And so that's how they buy wine, or they buy it based on some arbitrary rating. So these small family farms in Europe who had virtually no access to American consumers, because American consumer walk in and there'd be a hundred bottles there, they don't know which one is natural. They don't know what it means.

They don't understand it. And so these wines were very difficult for these farmers to sell, right? Then we came along and put health quantification to it. As I mentioned earlier, not only are they organically farmed and organically and naturally made, but we do independent lab tests behind that. So then we brought a quantification to it, a quantification to healthy drinking. And alcohol, touching back again on the actual alcohol, the actual alcohol content is really, really important, which is, again, why we only sell low-alcohol wines. I mean, you mentioned, and I think young people get this too. We do get this argument, well, will I still get high?

Do I still get, well, yes, you get high. You just have to drink an awful lot of it to get drunk, right? And particularly as you age, I mean, this idea of getting drunk, even into your 20s and 30s, this idea is just not, first of all, it's not healthy, right? It's not healthy for your brain. It's not healthy for your gut. It's not healthy for your liver. It's just not healthy to abuse like any drug, right?

Alcohol is not my drug of choice. It happens to be my cultural drug of choice, right? But just like with any drug, we have to be cautious and conscious of dosage and set and setting and how we interact with it. Yeah, I think that's a big one. I mean, it's something really, and myself included, you don't think about it until you turn 30. And then you think about it further when you're 35. And you think about it further every five years it goes by. Because you can't drink like when you were 20. You really can't.

And it's funny how that works out. But old people are right. The body fucking slows down. You know, time speeds up. It does. It just doesn't. Shit does not get processed in the same way. You know? It doesn't, which is get processed in the same way you know it

doesn't which is why our diet is so important why i'm ketogenic i mean because you get the i love the proverb you know we in biohacking we oftentimes um we oftentimes experiment with with different diets or different practices that there may not be specific scientific evidence to support practices that we may begin. The point is, I think, I love the proverb, to feel is to understand, right? And even before I knew as much as I know now about the ketogenic diet and the scientific evidence around it, even before I knew as much as I know now, I knew I felt a lot better. I knew I had higher energy. I knew I had improved memory. I knew I had better cognitive function. So as a direct result of my diet and now my

intermittent and extended fasting protocols. So I only eat once a day. I eat about six o'clock at night. And for me, before that, I was on lean gains, eating twice a day within a six-hour window, fasting for 16 to 18 hours. When I went to 24-hour intermittent fast, which was about two years ago, I thought it was like, for me me it was like a huge leap forward in terms of performance and health hugely so i've done a few extended fast five days water only probably a handful of three-day water fasts and i don't know maybe a dozen 24-hour fasts

and i've noticed i really do like the 24-hour fast it's convenient to know i'm gonna eat at six o'clock each and then i'll eat at six o'clock the next day and not to fucking worry about it. And if I feel hungry, I'm going to have water, you know, I'll just hydrate better. I've wondered that, you know, I, I, I look towards that as I age further as a real possibility for me. And I do, my wife and I do 16, eight intermittent fasting right now. What does your training look like? I mean, you're a fit dude. At Paleo FX, you expect everyone to look the part. Well, they don't.

It's not quite the case. There's a lot of people still on the search for their health and wellness. But when we were at your booth, I was like, damn, everyone here is shredded. It's pretty cool to see that. We have 20 people on staff. We pay for everybody's gym membership. 18 of the 20 are ketogenic. The other two are kind of low-carb maybe, but certainly not keto.

Yes, they're all so yeah it's um uh and most of them are doing 16 18 hour intermittent and with some 24 hour i just found for me personally the the big challenge in going from 16 to 18 to the 24 hour is really psychological right so it's just like i kind of initially i sort of emotionally missed eating. Yeah. Right? Now it's just the opposite. Now I can't imagine eating in the middle of the day. You know, I mean, it'd just be like such a buzzkill. You know, so, but making that transition,

and it's not for everybody, it requires a certain level of discipline to get through. And then, you know, there's some social pressures and it's kind of awkward when it's like, I get asked to go out to lunch and I was like, I was like, I don't eat lunch, but I'll be happy to come along with you. And I'll sit, I don't have any problem sitting at a lunch table and having you eat. I mean, like, I'm not like people like, hold, aren't you tempted? I was like, I'm just really not interested, but you know, we're tastemakers and food is a big part of my life. But I eat whole natural food. I mean, I love food.

I've spent my entire life loving taste. I mean, we're just obsessed with it. I mean, I love to eat. I just only eat once a day. And when I do, I drink a bottle of wine with it, and it's a pretty glorious feast. Yeah. I think that talking about the social aspects of eating, I think that if you're going to eat once a day,

you damn sure better make it dinner. Oh, for sure. For sure. It's like, and I know Rob Wolf is eating breakfast and lunch and skipping dinner. That makes it kind of hard. I don't think he does that 365 days a year. I'm also a wine drinker, so I don't want to drink without eating.

Drinking on an empty stomach after you've fasted all day is a pretty disastrous recipe. So I love to drink wine, so I need to eat with that. I need to eat. Now, we recommend everybody eat when they drink. It's really important to kind of slow the absorption down, even of low-alcohol wines. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had probably half a glass while we were cooking and then, you know, finished the rest while we were eating and went for a little walk.

It was fucking 70 degrees outside. You know, it was just absolutely beautiful. Well, the bottle of wine you got, I mean, I hope it was as good as I thought it was because it's one of my favorites. And that producer is one of our favorites. And we were, so I hope you really enjoyed it. Yeah, 100%, brother. Yeah, it was a good time. So talk a bit about the process. You know, when people order, you guys do direct-to-door shipping.

And they can choose half and half, three white, three red, or six red, or six white. How does that work? Well, so we're a wine club. If you're on our email list, we also do special offers throughout the year that don't require a subscription. But most of the people who buy our wines are pretty regular wine drinkers, right? And so we have some customers that get up to five cases a month, you know, so that's basically a bottle a day. Once you start, here's the thing, once you start drinking our wines and based on how you feel and the lack of hangover and the pleasantness of the buzz and the quality of

the taste, you can't really go back to drinking commercial wines. And when you do, you feel bad and you can actually taste, they taste what people think wine tastes like today if they're drinking regular commercial wines, which is virtually everything in the market. And then they go to drink a natural wine. It's like there's a big difference in taste and how it feels. Just the wine you drank last night was cleaner, lighter, fresher. You can just taste it. It's just cleaner. And so that appeals to

a lot of people who are pursuing a cleaner nutritional program. But how our program works is that you can order as frequently or infrequently as you want. Our two standard programs are monthly or every other month six or twelve bottles right and so and about half of our customers are on monthly and about half of them are on every other month depending upon how much they how much wine that they drink the wines average as I said $22 a bottle in in cost all the wines are priced exactly the same so we're not we also curate. So every box that you get, whether that's monthly or bimonthly or once a quarter or whatever your frequency is, we curate a different set of wines for every box from all over the world,

except the United States. We don't sell any domestic wines because they don't meet our health criteria, as I mentioned earlier. So every box that you get is going to contain a different curation from around the world. It might be Germany. It might be Spain. It might be Italy. It might be France. It could be Croatia or Hungary or South Africa. And so there'll be a unique and different bottle in every box. You can order a mix of red and white. You can order rosé. We have sparklings.

You can order all red. All red is our most popular subscription because most wine drinkers who drink on a fairly serious basis on wines probably drink more red than anything else. And so that's our most popular subscription. Yeah, I think i'm going to sign up for the old red i like it we need to send you a box down so you can have some further samples anyway yes brother some further testing yes further testing the uh but we also have you know we're also happy to offer a you know a special gift to your audience we give them a penny bottle of wine,

and all they have to do is go to this URL, and they'll find this offer. It includes a penny bottle. We can't give wine away legally, so we charge one penny for it. They can find that at dryfarmwines.com forward slash on it. Awesome, brother. We'll link to that in the show notes to make it easy on people if they're driving they can't take notes perfect it has been excellent having here obviously we you listed the website where can people find you on social media we are dry farm

wines on all social media and dry farm wines.com awesome brother thank you thanks man