Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #384 Evolving Consciousness: The Path to Bliss Brain w/ Dawson Church

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Welcoming Dawson Church to discuss his groundbreaking work in neuroscience and meditation. Dawson Church, known for his books 'Mind to Matter,' 'The Genie in Your Genes,' shares his journey and insights. They explore how meditation, Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT), and heart coherence impact mental and physical health, resilience, and well-being. Church delves into the science behind these practices, highlighting their effects on gene expression, cortisol levels, and brain structure. He encourages daily practice and leveraging both ancient techniques and modern research for longevity and mental clarity. The conversation also touches on Church's personal experiences, including overcoming adversity, and previews his upcoming book, 'Spiritual Intelligence,' which explores reaching transcendent states and their profound impact on life and health.     Connect with Dawson here:   Enjoy a free meditation and manual!   Pre-order Dawson's new book Spiritual Intelligence, and download the first 2 chapters     Our Sponsors: - Take the guesswork out of nutrition with @True Nutrition and get 15% off with code KKP at truenutrition.com/KKP! - Organifi's has everything health optimization. The Shilajit gummies are a game changer. Try them out and get a 20% discount www.organifi.com/KKP Use code KKP for 20% off! - If there’s ONE MINERAL you should be worried about not getting enough of... it’s MAGNESIUM. If your looking for great supplements at a great price... Head to http://www.bioptimizers.com/kingsbu now and use code KINGSBU10 to claim your 10% discount.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu  Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App  Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth  Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod  Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast  Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site   If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!  

Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. Today's guest is Dawson Church. Dawson Church is a guy that I've wanted to have on this podcast for some time. I first got interested in his work when I read Mind to Matter, which I believe Joe Dispenza wrote the forward to. Prior to that, I hadn't realized that he had written

the book called The Genie in Your Genes, which is akin to the work of Bruce Lipton and obviously paving the way, taking that baton and running it even further forward. His recent book is Bliss Brain, the neuroscience of remodeling your brain for resiliency, resilience, creativity, and joy. And I have that in my hands. I'll be honest, I haven't read it yet, but I can't wait to dive into this because we break a lot of this book down in the podcast. Dawson has another book coming out,

which I'm very excited to share. Once he releases that, I'll get him back on the podcast and I'm going to be super excited to dive back in with him. What a phenomenal guy. He's been through a lot. He was a part of the California fires in Northern California and more or less lost everything, but keeping his interior coherent, he was able to move through that with grace and catapult himself even higher. He's just an amazing human. I love the conversation with him and can't wait to do another one. And thanks for being on the podcast, Dawson. Dawson, it is a pleasure having you on the podcast. I've been a big fan of yours for quite some time. Mind to Matter was one of my favorite books when it came out. And of course, Joe Dispenza,

I was already in his work. He wrote the foreword. I was into Bruce Lifton's work, Biology of Belief. So, so much of this stuff has been resonant. And I tap regularly. It's something that I got into with EFT right when I started, actually, during plant medicine journeys. I could feel it unlocking in a way that was very visceral. So, I've got a lot of respect for your work. I love what you've done. As I mentioned before we got started, tell me about life growing up. What was, you know, what were the things you were into? What got you into what you're into today? Kyle, I'm so glad you're using all of those techniques because

they also interlock with each other and reinforce each other. And if you use all of them, then you're getting the best of all possible worlds on your personal growth journey. So good for you. And being an experimenter, being a voyager of discovery and using those things in your own personal life. And that really is what gets most of us into them is we have challenges as human beings. And often the answers we got as children, focus, visualize, they're helpful, useful. Goal setting is great. All of the usual coaching techniques are wonderful. But what we need is often really visceral ways of changing at a physical level. And if you, for example, are trying to change your mind, trying to change your

life direction, and you haven't changed at the level of the way your body responds in terms of neurotransmitters, hormones, enzymes, neural firing, it's really hard to make those changes stick. So like most people, I tried all those things, the law of attraction, I was into spirituality, learned meditation and energy healing in my teenage years. And yet so much of what I learned, I couldn't apply. When I finally got into meditation on a daily basis and began to meditate daily, and then learn tapping, I found that many of the challenges I've been carrying for decades, suddenly just went away. It was just miraculous. Like, it's so cool when I work with people, I do a lot of live events,

either virtually or in person. And I'll often ask for people who had some kind of longstanding problem. And one lady I worked with, for example, was in her late 70s and she'd had this problem of a frozen shoulder and a lot of biceps pain ever since a rotator cuff operation seven years before.

And so whenever she tried to raise her arm, she couldn't raise it very far. Her pain was always around four, five, six, and it went up and down a little bit every day. And so I asked her to tap in front of the whole group with me. And as we did EFT, as we tapped, it was just amazing to see what happened. Her body unlocked, her emotions shifted. And even though this injury was the result of an operation she'd had on her rotator cuff several years before, suddenly as she tapped and fixed her emotions and allowed all that emotional intensity to dissolve, all of her physical pain just went away. And when I then said, okay, what's your number now? She was down to a zero

and she tried to find her pain, moving her arm around like this and had full range of motion. So when you heal the level of the body, all kinds of things heal, even if you've had them for a long, long time. That was my trajectory as well, just finding that these longstanding issues changed when I apply these techniques. That's awesome. Yeah, I've thought about how many times my body's just been tight and I can't really, I can't get to it through stretching alone. And then through tapping and through really focusing my energy there, it just unlocks on me. So you were basically, you know, from a young age introduced to quite a few techniques that most people don't get into until they're in their 30s or 40s. And how did you, did you create EFT?

Like talk about that, that path there, or when were you introduced to it? EFT is ancient. It's called emotional freedom techniques and it's based on acupressure, but acupuncture points were discovered at least, we know Chinese scrolls go back 3,000 years. European sources, acupuncture points were known in Europe. And we know that based on archaeological evidence from about 6,000 years ago. So for a long time, humans have been using these points for for the relief of both psychological stress and also physical ailments and so they go back a long long time and eft just organizes them into a simple little routine it was developed earlier by roger callahan in the 1970s he was learning it from people before him and so these techniques are ancient. What we now have, though, in today's world we didn't have back then was we have tools for measuring their effects.

And that's where the science comes in. So, for example, we've now done many studies using EEGs or MRIs. And what is so amazing to see is that when people tap these points and touch or apply pressure or rub on these points in these 3,000-year-old Chinese scrolls, that their limbic system, the part of the brain that's highly in motion, quietens down. So we'll find, for example, we'll work with a veteran who served several tours of duty in Iraq and has high levels of PTSD, flashbacks, nightmares, intrusive thoughts is highly activated by those memories, those sights, those sounds, those smells. We then had them start to apply acupressure, tapping, using EFT on those points on the body and watching the results on the EEG, it's almost like magic. There's parts of the brain that handle emotion that were so incredibly aroused, that were so incredibly activated by those memories, just get quiet. And then that person takes a deep breath. And suddenly, every perception they have of the event starts to change.

And now they can remember the event. All the physical memories as well still are what happened, but they no longer have that psychological and emotional arousal and brain activation. So science now allows us to actually identify what's going on in the body. It turns out these ancient techniques are producing these powerful changes in our physiology, our gene expression, neural firing and wiring, and all these other dimensions of our physical well-being. Yeah, I love how science is meeting spirit in everything that you're working on here. For people who aren't familiar with Dispenza's work or Bruce Lipton's, you know, you wrote a book called

The Genie in Your Genes. Can you talk about epigenetics and how these things factor in with the body and everything you're working on? Yeah. And epigenetics is so interesting. And the only studies of epigenetics were done in the very late 1990s. Bruce Lipton actually did some even earlier than that. And what they showed was that external factors could affect gene expression. So whether genes were turned on or off was dependent upon external factors outside the gene. And the initial studies were done based on diet, and they fed rats or mice different diets that shifted the expression of various genes. What I got interested in around 2000 was how this was affecting genes not in the form of external influences like diet and, for example, bathing cells in a petri dish and different chemicals. What I became really curious about was what's happening when we bathe ourselves in our human

bodies in different biochemicals by changing our thoughts. And that to me is way interesting. So I did some key studies using cortisol as a marker. And cortisol is now easy to measure. Used to not be easy to measure, but as of the 1990s, it became easier and easier to measure it in saliva swabs. Just basically sticking a Q-tip in your mouth, freezing it, mailing it off to the lab, and you get the results of the person's cortisol level, which tends to be very stable, does not change a lot day by day. Some neurochemicals fluctuate

wildly moment by moment, but cortisol is really steady. And so we could tell how stressed people were by their cortisol levels. And those early studies showed that EFT tapping was epigenetic in that it was turning off the genes that code for cortisol production, and then cortisol would plummet. In some studies, like over 30%, in some studies over 40%, which is a massive, massive drop in cortisol. So yeah, our thoughts, our spiritual experiences, energy techniques like EFT are epigenetic. They're literally affecting our body down to the level of our genome. And I wrote the Genino Genes to catalog all of those changes and then say to people, strongly argue that, hey, it's not all in your head. Change your head, change your mind, change your emotions,

at least release your stress. You don't have to necessarily have a peak experience like you would in meditation. At least tap to release the stress of that early childhood trauma, of that car crash, of that divorce, of being in combat, of being in the combat zone maybe of your family when you were a kid. Just release that stress. It's going to affect you down to the level of your gene expression. And then if you look at the studies of people who are thinking positively and able to move their minds into that framework of positive day by day by day as a habit, these habits are tiny. They're making a little incremental change to our bodies every single day. But what is really interesting is the longevity studies, because that is looking at the cumulative effect of all those small life choices day after day after day and what result they produce over decades. show is that people with that positive mental frame gain, on average, 10 years extra healthy

lifespan than those that don't. So we really need to pay attention to our mental health. It isn't just making us feel better in the moment. It's affecting our health and longevity into our old age and beyond. Yeah, I love how you worded that. It makes me think, you know, I think a lot of people are familiar with the book, The Body Keeps the Score or Mark Wolin's book, It Didn't Start With You, which even goes generations behind us, you know. But what I appreciate about this work that you're into is that we have the ability to shift on all levels and then readdress it.

It's similar to plant medicines where you get to look at the thing that's been scaring you from a new angle, from looking outside the box and actually receive it in a way that's no longer scary. Ten years ago, I'm sure you've been talking about this longer than that. You've seen this full circle ride of where people started, where I'm sure you had a lot of people saying this is nonsense to now most people understanding, oh yeah, of course, there is stuff stored in here physically. And if I can address that mentally, emotionally, then I can release that. And that can cure all sorts of ailments, right? Dis-ease shows up in a number of things. It might not be a muscle injury. It might be a form of cancer. It might be a, you know, an organ that decides to not, you know, work very well. You know,

all of these things impact us differently. Maybe that is the small genetic percentage that we're given, you know, when we're born, but the epigenetic, the lifestyle factors and what we do to alleviate stress actually can rid us of whatever issues we would have in that department. Hey guys, quick break to tell you about Organifi.com slash KKP. Organifi is one of our longest running show sponsors. These guys are incredible. And the thing that really put these guys on the map was Organifi Green Juice. Start your day with essential superfoods that help reduce stress and reset your morning. The green juice contains a clinical dose of ashwagandha, which supports healthy cholesterol levels, which can aid in weight management. There's 11 superfoods for resetting the body and feeling amazing. It takes just 30 seconds, no shopping, chopping, juicing, or blending, is 100% USDA

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And for example, there's a book called EFT for Cancer written by a couple of really brilliant EFT practitioners. And it shows all the uses that people apply EFT for when they have cancer and how it reduces their stress reduces their pain I just finished a study being published soon with Tel Aviv University in Israel about EFT with with cancer patients and again showing that it produces dramatic shifts in their perception and then that's going to be affecting their cancer, their likelihood of cancer recurrence. So it is affecting us on these really deep levels. And we think these things are mental.

We think, oh, you know, go and have a nice experience, have a peak experience in meditation. And what we really don't understand yet is how directly and powerfully those affect us on the physical level, on the physical well-being of our bodies. And roughly the first 20 years of research I did was focused on PTSD, because PTSD is a pressing social problem. The cost, the untreated cost of PTSD just from the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in the US is over $1 trillion, trillion with a T dollars. And that's according to a study I did.

And you can look up all my research on the US government's database PubMed. The search for my name in PubMed, you'll find all kinds of research on the US government's database PubMed, the search for my name in PubMed, you'll find all kinds of research on meditation. And so we really need to work on those deficits because PTSD, trauma hurts our bodies and produces many adverse results. But after I worked on that for about 20 years, I really felt I made my point. It was like, okay, now we have dozens of studies showing this. Now it's time to focus on happiness. It's time to focus on peak experiences.

So for the last five or seven years, I've really focused on transcendent states. What happens when we escape the drag of our past trauma and we ascend and we have elevated experiences like those described by the mystics, like Rumi and Mary Oliver, Francis of Assisi, Clara of Siena, all of these myths and the modern ones as well, show us that there are these transcendent states. What happens to our bodies when we go to those states? And it turns out that those are also having dramatic effects on our physical body. And they're having effects on our perception of what it means to be human that are unprecedented.

We essentially lead to entirely new phases of being when we are transcending in that way that bear almost no resemblance to who we would be if we stayed where we were. So all those early studies on PTSD were all about escaping PTSD. The newer research I've been doing is all about hitting those transcendent states and what happens. And what happens in those states is that we, and in Mind to Matter talks a lot about this. That's why the book is not called Mind Over Matter. It's talking about our minds, our individual, local human consciousness, surrendering and saying to the great universal consciousness of the universe, here I am, let's dance, let's play. And when we do that in meditation, then the great universal consciousness says, oh, goody, I have a dance partner.

I have someone to play with here on the local level. And then you find it starts to pour creativity through you, information through you, wisdom through you, and your entire outer life starts to change. And that's why, again, I don't focus on trying to manipulate matter or make matter be to my desire. I focus on letting go of our focus on that wanting of things on the other sense. And instead of focusing to wanting what really counts, what really matters. And what really matters is that focus on surrendering

our local urges, our local vision, our local urgency, and then letting ourselves be one, drift into that oneness with the all it is. And then you find you have joy, you have purpose, you are then this conduit, this channel for the all it is. And that then affects the matter around you, including your physical body in all kinds of wonderful ways. I love that. Yeah, you talk. I mean, I think the subtitle to Mind of Matter is the astonishing science of how your brain creates material reality. And again, a lot of people would say like, oh, you know, that's, I don't know, they would throw up their arms about that scientific materialist, but it is true. It is, everything is being mirrored back to us, what we're creating and perception is a big piece of that.

And I think as we shift our internal system, we perceive things differently. A lot of people were talking about in 2020 that we can get tunnel vision when we're in a state of fear. And we don't, we really can't think clearly. We start to lose free will when we're in a state of fear, especially if it's chronic and it's been for too long. But utilizing techniques like EFT, that starts to expand awareness. And now we can see things with a much greater mind. I think what you're talking

about a lot of it with the bliss part, is this what you get into in Bliss Brain? Yes. Yeah, I wanted to explain how blissful these states are. And I wrote Bliss Brain in the year after I was caught up in a devastating wildfire. And my house was destroyed in a few minutes. And my wife and I just fled, ran for our car. As trees were catching fire around us, it was a crazy time. And we drove really quickly out of the area and got to safety. But 5,000 homes were destroyed that night. Dozens of people died. It was a horrendous for people in that part of Northern California where we lived. And it ushered in a very, very difficult couple of years for us where we not only lost all of our possessions, we also lost many of the other things that we needed, like money. We lost all of our money in the subsequent year. We had a big physical health crash.

And so there we were in very, very difficult circumstances. And we weren't spring chickens. We were in our 60s. So what do you do when that happens? And what happens is that if you're a resilient person, you've been meditating for a while, and then you keep on doing that. You keep on tapping, meditating. You get good therapy.

You get good social support. And we did all of those things. And what I would find is that I would be entering the states of bliss every day, regardless of how terrible things were around me. And so I wrote the book to try to explain this. I tried to try to explain, hey, you can lose literally every single thing you own, everything you have, you lose all your money, lose your your health, you can lose literally every single thing you own, everything you have, you lose all your money, you lose your health, you can lose all these material things, and still be in absolute ecstasy. How do you do that? What does it look like? And more importantly, what's going on in the brain? And so the middle chapters of Bliss Brain are all about the neurochemistry of meditation. And it turns out, for example, that the neurochemical you

produce a lot of in those ecstatic states is anandamide. And anandamide has the same structure as synthetic THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, and it docks with the same receptor sites in the brain. So when you are in these elevated states, your brain's producing waves of anandamide. It also produces lots of serotonin, which is the same chemical structure as magic mushrooms. Psilocybin also docks with the same receptors. So psilocybin, serotonin have the same receptor site docking mechanisms. Same with dopamine. You produce up to 65% more dopamine in your brain. Dopamine is the reward system. It's what's active in cocaine and forms of addictive drugs. And so you're sitting there in meditation and you're flooding your mind with the same chemicals as

you get in ecstasy, in ayahuasca, in serotonin, psilocybin, magic mushrooms, and you are then driving your brain into heights of ecstasy that the average person has no way of comprehending. I've written a new book now called Spiritual Intelligence, and I use a lot of Sanskrit words in that new book because there are no words, literally no words in the English language for the kinds of ecstasy people experience in these elevated states. And so you meditate, you unlock all this neurochemistry in your brain,

which I was doing in the year after the fire, and you find yourself just floating in bliss. And then you, of course, have to end that. So every meditation, all my guided meditation tracks wind up and with grounding. After you've been out there in ecstasy, you then move into effective engagement with the world around you. So you can do your shopping and change your kid's diaper and finish your spreadsheet and meet your deadlines at work and take care of your body, all those other things. So it's a journey. It's journeying out to these furthest realms of human consciousness,

and then journeying back and engaging again with the material world. That's really what I'm most interested in doing now, and also teaching, letting people know that, hey, you can reach heights of ecstasy that you don't even know are there. You have to take a drug to get to that kind of ecstasy, and you don't need one. Inherently, every single day of meditation, you can hit that kind of experience and then move yourself right back down into ordinary reality,

but carrying with you all the gifts, all the wisdom, all the insight, all the joy of those elevated states. And so that's what my book, This Brain, is all about. That's so cool. Yeah, I think to your point, you know, it's kind of like experience. You can't explain a psychedelic experience to somebody who's never done it before. But you're talking about an altered state of consciousness, right? And being that it's exogenous, your body's producing it through your own techniques and tapping and meditation. There's no side effects from that.

There's no come down. There's no drop where you're like, oh, shit, man, it went away. Right? So the natural form of that is an incredible form. And that's where people receive, you know, you tap back into your inner GPS, your inner guidance, your high self, soul, spirit, whatever you want to call that, intuition is switched on. That's where the downloads happen when you're in these peak states and you can really see the world differently. I love the fact that you basically made a roadmap to get there on your own. I loved Wim Hof and Stanislav Grav, of course, before him with holotropic breathwork. It's a lot of work. But it's a visionary experience, right?

You get the body to shift neurochemically and it gets you into this state. You've worked with Dispenza. And I just wonder, you mentioned and alluded to the fact that when you enter into these states, they have a profound impact on the healing of the body. One of my favorite quotes from Dispenza is that he says, gratitude is the currency of manifestation. So you hit rock bottom, for lack of a better term, with the California fires, and you're doing very well for yourself. Was this a part of your return into manifesting the latest

part of your life, entering in these states? How did those two coincide? I think that I was resilient as a result of all my prior meditation. And so it's fine to meditate when you're in a crisis, but it's better to build resilience before you are in a crisis, because then when you have a crisis, you can draw on all those resources. And what I'm exploring more in my book, Spiritual Intelligence, is what I call the tipping point. And the tipping point is when you have built enough neural mass in certain key circuits, and identify those four key circuits in the brain, you need to build neural mass in. When you've built enough neural mass in them, suddenly you click into this place where you can do things you could not do before.

And the example I give at the beginning of Spiritual Intelligence, Chapter 2, is that I had a goal many years ago. I wanted to bench press 200 pounds. I was going to the gym every couple of days. I was working out. I loved doing it. I felt great afterwards. And my goal was to bench press 200 pounds. And at that point, I could bench press probably 150 or 160 pounds. And it took many, many months of going

to the gym and working consistently, watching my form. And it took a long time. And I had a goal of bench pressing 200 pounds. I had a visualization of bench pressing 200 pounds. I had an affirmation of that. I had a mindset that I could do it. I had an affirmation of that. I had a mindset that I could do it. I was doing all the things that were required to do it. And for months and months and months, even with all my visualizing and all my affirming, I could not bench press 200 pounds because I did not have enough muscle mass in my biceps and in my deltoids. I just didn't have enough big enough mass there. Like the mass of the average human being, average man is about 13 inches around here.

And when you only have like 12 and a half, 13 inches, you just can't bench press 200 pounds. Now at 13 and a half, 14 inches, you can do it. You have to build up the mass. In the same way, we have to build up the neural mass, and we do that by consistent practice of meditation, and effective meditation as well. There are some meditations that aren't very effective, and in all my books, I say, do these meditations. These really are effective. We know from science that some aren't, some are. Here's what really works. And these very, very quickly are building up neural bundles in your brain. And the evidence from, for example, scanning electron microscope images of neurons being built shows that every few seconds as you fire those neurons together, they wire. 12 seconds. You can wire a whole new neural bundle. And so your neurons are bulking up way quicker than your muscle fibers do. And in one MRI study I did, we looked at people doing eco meditation, this evidence-based meditation versus a control group for only 30 days. And in 30 days, they were able to build up enough neural mass

to cross that tipping point. And suddenly they were doing that heavy lifting into those ecstatic transcendent states. So it does not take that long. It does not take 10,000 hours. It does not take many, many years of activity to produce that neural mass. But you have to focus on doing that in advance.

Then you're resilient. Then when you have the divorce, you have the fire but you have to focus on doing that in advance. Then you're resilient. Then when you have the divorce, you have the fire, you have the job loss, you have the economic downturn, you have whatever might happen, you already have those fibers in place. And that's why I recommend starting now, not waiting till there's a crisis. And again, it didn't take that long in that study. It took 20 minutes a day, four or 30 days for people to build up enough neural mass to reach that tipping point and enter those transcendent states. Hey guys, another quick break to tell you about the homies at BiOptimizers. The clock is ticking on 2024, but it's not too late to revolutionize your health. Do you know that positive changes can happen faster than you think? Better nutrition shows results in one to two weeks. Consistent workouts transform your body

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Meatheads that are into spirituality. But I played football at ASU and fought in the UFC for six years. And so that definitely resonates. There was a book I listened to back in the day called The Science of Mindfulness. It was one of Audible's great courses. And that was the first time I really understood that meditation, that the brain is a muscle, right? We can build that through practices.

Another analogy that I really liked is, you know, through practice and these connections becoming stronger, it's like you can drive on a single-lane dirt road, but with enough time, you turn that into an eight-lane superhighway, right? Bandwidth improves, the connection improves, and it just makes things easier. I found over the years that I've been able to drop in much quicker rather than struggling with the mind or, you know, over, you know, oh man, I'm thinking again, any of these kinds of things and just actually find the sweet spot very quickly. Talk a bit about your meditation techniques and how they differ from others. Yeah. And you're right that it starts with practice. And one of the ways I approached this brain was I looked at the MRI research and I asked myself the question, and science, again, is great at formulating questions like this,

which meditative practices build neural mass the quickest? And you want to do that. You want to do those things that build it the quickest. And you want to do that. You want to do those things that build up the quickest. Just like if you had that goal of bench pressing 200 pounds, you'd want the practices that got you there quickest. If there's one practice that's going to get you there in six months or a year, and another one will take you 10 years, pick the one that's the direct path. So you want to be smart about the way you do that. And science is really clear. We now have enough MRI research to know what takes you there the fastest. And so

this brain looks at all the different styles of meditation and says, what really will get you there quickly? And it turns out there are three things that get you there the fastest, that build that neural capacity the quickest. Number one is meditating with some kind of community. The research comparing monks who meditate in solitary splendor in the cave in the Himalayas by themselves with those that are in a monastery shows that those in a monastery build those fibers quickest. I don't know yet whether doing this in a virtual community helps, but like when I meditated this morning, for example, I got up at my usual time around 5 a.m., sat in front of the fire, lit some candles,

and entered that state. And then I just, in my inner perspective, was aware of all the other millions of people meditating right now. So there's all this chaos and confusion in the world, and I can move beyond it into universal consciousness and then connect with every other person who is connected with universal consciousness. So meditating in a group is effective. We've also done a number of studies now of people doing virtual groups with Zoom, and we find they have the same effects as in an actual physical group. So doing it even virtually has a certain effect. So doing it in groups is one. Number two is intensity. And like I was reading a book this last week by a well-known meditation teacher, and I really respect his work. But he's funny, he's witty, he's convincing. What he did not have was passion.

And when you read the works of, you know, Hildegard of Bingen talks about the fire of heaven coming down through my head and into filling my chest and incinerating my heart. You want that kind of a passion. Rumi, read Rumi, read Carlos Castaneda, you know, to soar through the universe, to walk without feet. I mean, the imagery of these mystics, they are not sitting there saying, close your eyes and adjust your breathing and feel good. They're passionate about their meditation. And I want you to be passionate as well. Everyone listening, I want you to approach this not with a standpoint, I'm going to sit there and be quiet and try and my thoughts, which is how I was taught when I was 15 years old. I want you to bring the passion of being in love. You know, when you were first in

love, when I first met my wife, Christine, and we were in love, we were utterly passionate about each other. In fact, when we are together every day, still, I mean, decades later, we still connect with each other deliberately every day. And it's intense. It's really an intense relationship. And you want to have that intense relationship with the infinite, because why are you here? You are this expression. Ruby says that we are not a drop of the ocean of consciousness. We are the ocean of consciousness in this drop and live your life with that passionate intensity. And that, again, in research and MRI studies, really moves the needle on neuroplasticity. And the third of the three things, which actually is great in those two, is compassion.

When you look at research into compassion meditation, when it's compared to the other styles of meditation, compassion moves the needle like anybody else. Community, intensity, compassion. So you want to just feel unconditional love, like there are people in the world who are doing unpleasant things, who are hurting other people, who are making war, who are violent, and you just sit there and you hold even them in unconditional love. When you do that, after a while, you'll find

you start to hold the parts of your own personality that are warlike and confused and miserable and misguided. Even those parts of your personality, you're able to hold in compassion and in love. So you want to do those three things. And I developed eco-meditation, my evidence-based method, to simply stack six evidence-based methods, heart coherence, breathing, a certain form of breathing, tapping, back biofeedback,

self-hypnosis on top of each other, all evidence-based, all backed by science. Add them all together, they put people into these deep states very, very quickly, and then you can move to an elevated space, stay there for a while, and then we know that'll literally change the anatomy of your brain in 30 days and unleash this torrent of pleasure neurochemicals in your head. So that's what you want to do. Use an evidence-based form of meditation and then feel the effects in your body and then allow that passion to move you forward in your journey. I'm getting hyped right now just listening to

you talk about it. I definitely want to dive into this. That's so cool. For people that don't know, what are some of the techniques you use for heart coherence? I've been trying to get the founders of HeartMath on this podcast for a while. My dad actually lived in Boulder Creek, right down the street from HeartMath. He's back up in Oregon now. But lots of cool people there. I got to interview Bruce Lipton at his house up there. I was born and raised in Northern California, down in San Jose. So really just a, it's a remarkable place with lots of amazing people. But, you know, heart coherence is something that, you know, and Paul Cech, one of my mentors really teaches this, especially when we do plant medicines together, we come into a sense of

resonance through either chanting or through drumming, where we actually have to find a similar beat and we hold that similar beat as the medicine comes on. And we can vary in things like that, but always circling back to this steady beat of the drum or the steady of the rattles. You know, and I think the sound is an amazing way to tune into that. But I was just curious, what are some of the techniques that you use for heart coherence? The simplest way to attain heart coherence is to breathe six seconds in and six seconds out. And there's a lot of different kinds of breathing you can use. If you follow yoga and pranayama, there are entire Indian treatises on how to breathe. But I focus on just that one simple

breath, six seconds in, six seconds out, that automatically puts you into heart coherence. And then when you're in heart coherence, that puts your brain into coherence. Your peristalsis gets into coherence. A lot of other physical things go into coherence. Once your heart is in coherence and it takes only that six second in breath and out breath to do it. That's beautiful.

Yeah. I really appreciate the science that's come out from, from people like yourself and also the heart math guys, the brain or the heart really is the master, the master of all these things and i think um you know guys like rudolph steiner who you know had learned from the rosicrucians and different people you know you can unlock the brain you know the the crown chakra and then work your way down or unlock the root and work your way up they always started with the heart and then work their way out from there because if you started with the root you you might simply get locked into the physical

or maybe an aromantic tendency. If you started with the crown, you might get caught in only being spiritual and not grounding that back into reality. So I love that heart is the first thing you guys get into. Yeah, there's a lot of people who have an intellectual approach to their lives and we're used to really explaining our lives intellectually. That's why I

love EFT tapping. Like I'll sit down with somebody at a live workshop and they'll start telling me their story and it'll all be in their head. And they'll be talking about why I am the way I am. The reason I have program, the reason I have physical pain is the reason why my life is the way it is. They'll have this whole infrastructure of story about their lives. And what I want to know is, how do you feel in your body? Do you feel good? Are your shoulders relaxed? Do you have full range of motion? When you talk about the griefs and losses, are you still breathing or are you getting rigid and holding your breath? And so these simple things like breath are able to guide us into that sense of well-being.

And you want to find out where it is and start living fully in your body. It's not that we'll never use our intellect, but you'll find your intellect works much, much, much better when it's in coherence. If your heart's in coherence, your brain's going to go into coherence. You just think dramatically better than when you're in a stressed state. If you look at the research on stress and what it does to the brain, it is really incredibly impactful short-term and also long-term. Short-term, when you get stressed, it shuts down your frontal lobes, the executive centers of your brain, and it pushes blood into your peripheral muscles to fight or flight. And I have a little movie I show people sometimes in my workshops, and we'll see capillaries flowing through cells, and then cortisol hits the person who gets stressed. And those capillaries shrink by 80%,

starving the muscles, starving the cells in your brain of nutrients, of oxygen, as the blood flow is then redistributed to your fight or flight large major muscle groups. And so stress shuts down our ability to think effectively, be resilient, be creative. The other thing it does over time, if you look at the brains of people with chronic PTSD, after 30, 40 years of PTSD, it literally produces shrinkage

of the memory and learning centers of the brain, and you become much less resilient, those parts of the brain actually begin to form calcium deposits. They become hard and inflexible, and those brains start to shrink. We have natural shrinkage of the brain. It starts to shrink around the age of 30.

There's natural shrinkage. There's greatly accelerated shrinkage of people who are stressed. The brains of Alzheimer's patients can shrink 70% between the age of 40 and the age of 80. So it's producing dramatic shifts in your brain volume, number of neurons in your brain over time. So short-term shutdown of oxygen flow to those cells, and again, they start to die. Long-term dramatic shrinkage of the human brain. In spiritual intelligence, I have one image of an actual post-mortem human brain, 65 years old, average size,

next to an Alzheimer's brain. The Alzheimer's brain looks like a shrunken little shriveled walnut by comparison to the actual brain as a result primarily of negative thinking and the result of stress. That's mind-blowing. I didn't realize that it was that big of an effect. I understand the short-term or the acute, and that makes sense for a ton of reasons evolutionarily and from a survival standpoint. But thinking about what happens long term it it makes a you know i'm i'm often thinking you know that one degree shift you can make when you set sail can take you to a whole different continent but if you start a practice like this now that one degree shift can literally save your brain it can save you from from these things happening have you guys looked into the potential of this reversing some of those

things obviously when somebody's 80 years old and has had Alzheimer's for a while, probably not going to do much. But people that are on their way, people who have a predisposition, people who are in part already in some of the problem areas that you've described. That is some of the most thrilling research. And in Chapter 2 of Spiritual Intelligence, it's not out yet, but it will be out soon. And actually, I just realized that on the book's website, even though it's going to be six months before the book's out there, you can download the first couple of chapters free, including the Alzheimer's chapter. And there is incredible new research, which I share at the end of chapter two of spiritual intelligence. And they took Alzheimer's

patients in these studies. And in the experimental group, they had them do effective body-based meditation. Again, not being up there in your head, being there in your heart, doing the breathing, doing the body scans, doing the really nitty-gritty work of moving from the head into the body. They took Alzheimer's patients and they had them do meditative styles like that. And in one key study, these Alzheimer's patients were doing that for six months, 30 minutes a day. The control group was doing something else to engage the placebo effect. And they found that the brains of those in the control group naturally just kept on shrinking the cognitive decline kept on getting worse those in the experimental group doing this body based meditation style they literally reversed cognitive decline their cognitive decline literally reversed and they began to have better executive function,

lower anxiety, their markers of cognitive decline actually improved. Their brains actually began to get bigger. They actually reversed this. And in six months, the brains of those Alzheimer's patients doing, again, a body-based, science-based meditation method actually began to grow, especially in the learning and memory centers and the executive control centers. So absolutely, what we're discovering now is that these techniques literally will grow your brain, even if it's really damaged and shrunken by Alzheimer's or a lifetime, say, of negative thinking. Because I mentioned negative thinking because other studies show that negative thinking and Alzheimer's plaques scale. The more negative thinking, the greater the deposit of Alzheimer's plaques in the brain.

So you definitely do not want to wait until you're 60 or 70 or experiencing memory loss before you start to do this, research shows that we can detect the levels of Alzheimer's plaques in the brain of a 30-year-old, and those that have elevated levels at 30 will start to have symptoms at 60. 30 years before there are any symptoms whatsoever, we can detect the adverse changes in the brain that will lead to Alzheimer's later on. So don't think because you're 25 years old or 35 or 45 that, oh, don't bother about that until I'm 60. Don't wait until you have memory loss

and confusion and anxiety and the other Alzheimer's symptoms. Start to work on your brain health right now at 20, 30, 40, because you are growing those centers and you are leveraging the power of these techniques to have a healthy brain when you do reach an advanced old age. Yeah, I love that you worded that for, you know, what do they say, the betterment of well people. I know a lot of guys in the military, right? I know a lot of friends that were in the military, obviously have a lot of friends that fought and there's, you know, science on NFL players where their brains were shrunken and had a lot of these plaques from CTE and TBI fighter, you know, I got punched in

the face three days a week for 10 years. So, you know, I have, I can make no, no, I can't fake that, you know, like that, that did happen. Right. And so I think of the fact that I know so many people in both these fields, that this was such an incredible gift to be able to start and know that, that it can reverse that you guys have proven the scientifically that it can be reversed. That brings a lot of joy in knowing that. Yeah. And knowing that is power. And so you can start to apply these, these techniques early in life. And then again, have all the benefits that compound.

One of the other cool questions I asked in BlitzBrain was, I thought, you know, is there an endpoint of happiness and brain development? Like, do you get to the point maybe when you've just reached such a plateau, there's no higher you can climb? You reach Mount Everest. So I just had that thought. I mean, is there an end point beyond which we human beings cannot go? So I found one study, and this is so cool, Kyle. It was of monks who had an average of

60,000 lifetime hours of meditation. These guys have done an enormous amount of meditating since they were four or five years old, done multiple three-year retreats. And it was comparing them to people who've done a mere 20,000 hours of meditation. And what was so interesting comparing the MRIs of these two groups was that the MRI scan showed that the group with 60,000 hours, those people were still changing.

They were still getting happier and happier. And the parts of the brain responsible for happiness and well-being and contentment and creativity and joy were getting ever larger. And so it looks like there's no end point. We just keep on developing ourselves this way. And then, of course, we will eventually face old age. We'll face death. The body does start to deteriorate. We'll get more and more frail. Even if you live a little over 100, eventually, Blue Zones research shows that we will start to get frail. But we find those people are dramatically happier, even as they have much longer lives. So you want to be one of those people and, again, do the things right now that are highly rich points to make you feel good then. I do retreats with people sometimes for a few days or a week or

two, live retreats. And I remember I had this one exercise I do, and I have people travel forward in time and meet a version of yourself when you're at an advanced old age. And at one of my retreats, I thought, you know, I'm just going to not only leave this exercise, I'm going to do the exercise. So I traveled fast forward in time to the like 99 year old version of Dawson Church. I sat there and I said, OK, I'm listening. What advice do you have for me? What would you like to tell the 60 year old version of Dawson Church. And I was expecting this flood of profound wisdom and inspired thinking.

I was just bracing myself for this download of just awesome ideas and creative thoughts. And the 99-year-old guy only said one thing to me. He said, take good care of that body because that's where I have to live. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, it's something I mean.

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with promo code KKP. Take the guesswork out of nutrition with True Nutrition. I think young boys can be a little reckless. And there was a part of me that felt invincible for quite some time. I think until my first broken bone when I was 18. But thinking of that, you know, like I'm 42 years old now. I've got kids. I've watched my father who's now in his 70 that, you know, like at, I'm 42 years old now, I've got kids. I've watched my father who's now in his, his seventies, you know, and, and you know, and my father actually went up to visit his mom, Nana, before she passed away. And he was in a nursing home and I was telling

him about posture, you know, like how important posture is. You don't want to slouch. And that is reversible. If you just, you know, if you're mindful about it, you stand at attention and, you know, there's a neuro chem that shifts a lot of things just from standing in this and um and he was always like yeah you know i'm fine that kind of thing when he went to the nursing home and he saw how many people were hunched over and there was actually growths that form you know like like quasimodo growth can start to grow humps can grow on their back uh if you've been there for quite some time and he said that lit a fire under my ass like nothing else. I've never wanted to stand up straighter in my life than being around all these old people who were hunched over, right? And that speaks to everything you're talking about. That body is your ability to be free in the world or it's a prison. I watched a video many years ago of a Tai Chi master doing Tai Chi

at 114 years of age, Kyle. This guy's 114, and he is moving, doing these Tai Chi moves, is balancing on one leg, and he has full range of motion in all of his joints. And I was thinking, wow! I mean, that's that model of being in sync with this universal life energy and then letting it express through your body on a daily basis. Think about our usual model in the West that you're getting sicker and sicker and sicker.

You're on more and more and more medications. I talked to somebody in my family this last week, and she said, I'm on 20 medications. And I'm like, that's the, our image is we get older, we get frailer, we have more and more problems. And what we find in meditation research is now people do get frail, and they definitely cannot chop wood and carry water the way they could when they were 80. But look at the Okinawans. Look at the Okinawans who are over 100 years old. And they are still, they aren't, you know, chopping down trees, but they're planting flowers, they're gardening, they're singing karaoke with their grandchildren, great-grandchildren,

great-great-grandchildren. I mean, they are actively involved in the physical part of their lives. And so plan now to be one of those people. And again, meditation is absolutely fundamental to the stress reduction is one thing, but start reaching elevated states. If one thing you get so happy, you want to live that long and healthy life. I'd love that. Well, you've outlined so much here.

There are, I mean, here's a couple of things that I want to say. One, you know, when we talk about all the medications and things of that nature, you know, that's, it's like throwing band-aids on a sinking ship. You're never really getting to the root of the problem. And that's one of the main issues with the healthcare system, which Rob Wolf, you know, generously calls the sick care system. How do we treat sick people? Well, we give them just enough to survive, but it never really addresses the core issues. And I think everything that you're talking about from meditation to EFT, it's a holistic approach to the body. It resets the nervous system and acts on all cells. It, it, you know, works with the epigenetic system on off switches, and that can address the root

system, whether that's a physical ailment or a mental, emotional, spiritual ailment. And I think that's, you know, if you have your choice and you can see down the road, 20 plus medications or 114 year old Tai Chi master that has full range of motion. But every day we make that choice, right? So we got to lean into the, into the choices that we know that are best for us. I'd love to ask, what are some of your practices outside of these techniques that you have a phenomenal stack here, but what are some of your practices outside of these techniques that you have a phenomenal stack here? But what are some of the other things that you do for yourself, you know, being a person that really takes consideration into all of this?

So the two fundamental techniques I teach and recommend are EFT tapping because it reduces stress quickly and it takes only a minute or two. So we can address stress, release stress really, really fast with EFT. And the second one is meditation. That does take longer. And I recommend you set aside maybe 15 to 30 minutes every morning for meditation and make it non-negotiable. I have people take a 30-day challenge. I say, download my free eco-meditation tracks.

They're all over the place online. And download those tracks, listen to them every day for 30 days. That's what was shown in that MRI clinical trial to literally affect brain anatomy, affected the anatomy of the brain within 30 days. Those are two fundamental practices. And then there are plenty of others that I think are healthy and supportive. And I recommend just playing around with them, picking the ones that are good for you. The ones that I personally pick are, I'm just crazy about being. And the other day I was out playing, just practicing basketball. And there was what was called an atmospheric river coming through

two weeks of just solid rain. And I picked, you know, the little break in the rain and ran out there and, and through some hoops. And then it was raining. And as I was thinking, any sane person would be indoors right now, but I got to be outside. And it just feels like, you know, being, being caged to me, to be indoors all the time. So being in touch with nature, being outdoors is really critical for me. Time in nature, take a walk on the beach. If I think I don't have time and I'm too busy, that's when I most need to take that time. Time with other people, people you love, children, grandchildren, parents, friends. Like just the other day, our neighbor was struggling

to move a big roof rack from his car. So my son and I just walked out there and helped him and got into a conversation and just talked for a while. Just connect with people around you. It doesn't have to be formal. It doesn't have to be a planned event. Just connect with people around you.

Connect with family. Hold people. My wife and I say goodbye to each other when we're leaving the house. And we just talk to each other for a few moments. We kiss. We hold. We hug. A long hug.

Not just a two-second hug. Do a 30-second hug or at least a 10-second hug. It really is powerful to do that. So connect with other people in your life. Connect with nature. And do things that challenge you. Like I'm learning ukulele now, just trying to learn a new instrument. Am I good at it?

No, I'm absolutely horrible, horrible at it. But I'm having fun, absolutely. And so learn, pick a new thing every year to do. You know, when I was 40 years old, I learned to roll a blade. Was it easy? No, it wasn't. Did I fall? Yes, I did.

Did I jump up and keep on going? Absolutely. And so pick a new thing and just challenge yourself every year. Never get to the point where you're happy just resting on your laurels and saying, I'm good at these skills. I'm going to rest on this set of skills. Pick some things that are really, really difficult, unusual, challenging, foreign to you and master them. And so all of these things are going to start to really support your well-being. Challenge your mind with new ideas. Read books that are going to really expand your sense of possibilities. Get involved

with people and causes that you disagree with. If you have people on the opposite end of the political spectrum from you, go and find out what makes them tick. And just ask them questions. Be open to what they have to say. People who really disagree with you. If you disagree with somebody who is, you know, say maybe a political figure, go read what they say. Just listen. You know, just be in curiosity there for a while. So all of these things are ways of keeping yourself healthy, keeping the life energy flowing. Notice where you're getting rigid. Where am I stuck? Where am I in this rut? Where am I in a routine?

And then find a gentle way of moving yourself out of it. Also, use therapy. Use psychotherapy. Use other forms of therapy. I have a great doctor. I get great medical care, but I have a great naturopath as well. So I also have amazing nutrition.

I use a lot of supplements. I use superfoods. I mean, all of these ways of supporting your body are going to be really effective. And then put together your unique mix of things that works for your lifestyle. If you're a busy mom working full time with four kids, don't think you're going to meditate an hour every morning. It's a fantasy. Pick something that works for you. Do things to work for your lifestyle. Don't attempt things that are too big a stretch.

Do things you can incorporate into your existing lifestyle easily. Maybe if you are a busy mom, maybe you take your kids to the park and they play on the swings. You can listen to a podcast then they play on the swings structure. You can listen to a podcast then. Make it an inspiring one. Fill your mind with the most elevated conversation and ideas you possibly can. Do not fill your mind with a random junk of social media. There's all kinds of just blah, blah, blah information out there. It has no real use for you and you can

fall down that rabbit hole very quickly. Pick things like this podcast, and then listen to them. Make that the information going into your consciousness, because the quality of information that you're entering into this precious gift of your human consciousness is what's going to then manifest in your outer life. So make sure the water flowing into the stream upstream is pure, then the water downstream will be pure. If you've got a garbage dump of stuff, like I was being driven home from the auto dealership the other day after dropping my car off for work by this guy who drove me home. And he had a political radio AM radio show playing on his car radio, this driver, and just the

vitriol flowing out of the mouths of those hosts, it was like they were just saying all kinds of horrible things. I thought this guy leaves this on in his car many hours a day. So here he's pouring like garbage into his stream every morning. How can you possibly have a very satisfying life after that? So pick information sources that are uplifting to marinate, to steep your consciousness in, and then you'll find that those things start to flow out of your mouth into your life. So those are some of my personal practices, many of them very, very easy to do. Most of them cost nothing except for that visit to the therapist or the clinical EFT practitioner is going to cost you something that is money well spent.

Do those things that support you and then release those things that don't. And you'll find your entire life starts to shift as you're making, taking advantage of all of these resources. Dawson, that was flawless and I think a perfect way to end. Your next book, Spiritual Intelligence, comes out, you said, about six months? It comes out in May. And there is a website for it now, spiritualintelligencebook.com. I just realized it just got up. And the first two chapters, including the Alzheimer's chapter, are a free download on that site. So very cool. Well, I'm going to order Bliss Brain right now, and then I'll follow you on Amazon. So it'll let me know when that book is released and I can just

one click purchase it. Where can people find you or follow you? You know, your website, I'd love for you to leave that. We'll link to everything, the show notes. And how often are you doing live events where you're actually teaching in front of people? I do live events pretty often. I do virtual events on Zoom. I also do live events like Omega Institute, CII in San Francisco, other places as well. So I'm doing events in person. We also have about 600 certified trained practitioners, and they often teach. They'll certainly do one-on-one work with those

who want to release their trauma or reach these states. And then the best place to download the EFT manual, as well as that meditation track, is DawsonGift.com. And so go to Dawson gift.com. This is my name, D-A-W-S-O-N, Dawson gift, G-I-F-T.com. Download the manual, go to the back of the manual, where you'll see the tapping points on a single page, and just try them and see what happens in two minutes. You'll be surprised. And quickly they'll shift your body. And that's also where that meditation track is. Again, that's free. Download that. Use it for 30 days. We found that in a few days of use of that track, people's cortisol levels start to drop dramatically

and their immune markers start to rise again substantially. So DawsonGift.com is the place for those two resources. And then links to my books, our online courses, our certified clinically empty practitioners, all the other stuff is also available from that one DawsonGift.com site. Dawson, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. When your book comes out, I'm going to read it and I'd love to have you back on the podcast then. I really appreciate your time and everything that you're into, brother. It's mutual, Kyle.

It's been a joy and delight. I look forward to connecting again. Beautiful. Thank you.