Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #393 In The Spirit Of Wonder w/ Ryan Anderson

Episode Date: February 15, 2025

Welcoming Ryan Anderson. This conversation delves into Ryan's growth from a small-town upbringing to his career in the Phoenix Fire Department, his exploration of consciousness through plant medicines and float tanks, and his personal development practices including breath work and gratitude. They touch on topics of addiction, the impact of childhood experiences, and achieving a beginner's mind. The discussion also covers broader societal themes like the importance of decentralization, understanding dark historical truths, and fostering a holistic approach to wellness and mental health. Additionally, the conversation highlights the benefits and potential pitfalls of psychedelic experiences, culminating in a shared belief in the power of small daily practices to bring about meaningful change.   Connect with Ryan here: Instagram All of Ryan's Links!   Our Sponsors: With Happy Hippo, you're getting a product that's been sterilized of pathogens, tested for impurities and heavy metals, and sold with a guarantee. Go to happyhippo.com/kkp and use Code KKP for 15% off the entire store Looking for Shilajit? Head over to blacklotusshilajit.com and enter code KKP to receive 15% off your orderD EARN in gold and silver. Click link below for a great discount! monetary-metals.com/kkp If there’s ONE MINERAL you should be worried about not getting enough of... it’s MAGNESIUM. Head to http://www.bioptimizers.com/kingsbu now and use code KINGSBU10 to claim your 10% discount. Full Temple Reset is coming and it will be a life changing experience. Join us!   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site   If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!

Welcome to today's podcast. We have Ryan Anderson on the podcast. I have known Ryan for a very long time. I can't remember actually when we met, but I believe it was my old buddy, Lars Havens, who I've known since I was 19 years old, met in college, and was my main sparring partner when I first started in mixed martial arts,

fucking years ago, before I ever trained on a team or anything. Oddly enough, Ryan Anderson and Lars and Christian Grzynski, who's no longer with us, I believe, all grew up in the same small town out in AZ. So I feel very fortunate to have met him and really been a pleasure to watch Ryan grow over the years. You know, coming out of the number one party school in the nation, which Ryan didn't attend, but I did, you know, I didn't see a lot of change in the people that I hung out with in college and same with high school. I mean, that's, that's kind of par for the course. If you're on a trajectory for self-improvement growth, you're constantly

learning, just constantly trying to be the best version of yourself. It's kind of standard to take a look around and see that that's not everyone's operating frequency. No judgment there. But Ryan operates at that frequency. And he went into the fire department. He's been on Phoenix Fire for a long time. And it's been really cool to see him grow over the years, the things that he's into, the things that he's rabbit holed. Ryan uniquely, you know, he is on one hand along with Nathan Riley and maybe a couple others where if he sends me content, I will chew it up instantly because he's introduced me to some amazing thinkers. And he just has a brilliant

mind and an excellent way about him. Also, you know, he got to spend the last parts of Don Howard's life living with him. You know, some really cool shit there. I love this podcast. I got to go on Ryan's podcast earlier back when we did Fit for Service in Sedona. He had me on his, and I told him, you know, come out to the farm, I want to have you on mine. And so it was really cool getting to do this one face-to-face. Share this with friends.

Leave a five-star rating with one or two ways the show's helped you out in life and support our show sponsors. They make this show possible. Without further ado, my brother, Ryan Anderson. Check had a really cool podcast he did on like the four things that lead to addiction. I forget exactly the wording on it. I'll link to it in the show notes.

But what I can't remember them all, but one of them was being a perfectionist. So like if you were a kid and your parents, you became a perfectionist from having perfectionist parents, that's something that can lead to addiction. And we're not talking like Coke and whatever. We're talking like any form of addiction, right? TV addiction, shopping, sex, whatever, porn.

Perfectionist was one. The need to know was another one. And so I think about that like there are people who just have to know. I see it now in kids. Our son is nine and our daughter's four. And some of his friends constantly ask questions on what, what is going to happen today? When are we going to leave?

How long is it going to last? You know? And like, so they already, I can see those things forming. Yep. And this isn't me judging at all. It's just interesting because we all have them.

Yeah. Right. Like I, whatever the other two were, I was like, Oh, that's me for sure. Yeah.

You know, maybe the ego doesn't want me to present this on the podcast right now, but there was two that I stuck out like a sore thumb. I was like, those are mine for sure. Yeah, the need to know piece, the thing that you spoke to on Wonder, and you're a Wonder Junkie podcast, right? Is that the handle on Instagram? Yeah. Yeah. It is such an important piece. And I think through our similar background and lineagesages and i want to get into all of your background on this podcast obviously you know we've been friends for a while but i'm excited to learn about you there is that awe-inspiring moment that not everyone gets but you can have it through a transcendent

experience yeah right and that can happen from plant medicines or it can happen from a vision quest no food no water it can happen from heartbreak and can happen from a lot of different ways you know many paths lead up the mountain but what a cool thing to chase what a cool thing to be like inspired to have more of right where that there's that aha witness the witnessing of of the great mystery and holding it as that yeah i think it's a really cool way to frame it yeah and it's being that constant you can do it on an airplane. I do it. I do it driving across the Valley to go visit a friend in California where I can truly use my imagination in real time while I'm present. Cause people say you want to be present and you're like,

well, I am present while I'm also seeing the future and the past. And I can see that 300 years ago, I'm in a, in a vehicle that's like an exoskeleton going 70 miles an hour down a road, listening to the guy, James Hollis, who I'm going to interview. You know what I mean? Talking through time and space. It's blowing my mind while I'm just having this cool, like a Native American from 300 years ago would be like, what the fuck is that silver spaceship that's zipping across the valley? And so you can be in awe all the time, is i think medicinal yeah and it's not like i'm doing oh i need to heal i'm not chasing it as medicine but it it's a constant practice for me where i'm like you know what wonder junkie is not a bad idea it's better than the other which is

depressed um you're always thinking about your own self malaise self-deprecation no it's like let's expand and expand and expand and you can do it in micro moments, you know, or, or just as bad thinking you've got it all figured out. That's impossible. I realized that if you do, you're duped. Well, I, as a coach, it's unfortunately, you know, sometimes there is that case. I was just, we had a, we had a really cool hunting weekend here at the farm with my brother, Ken Conti, who's been on the podcast. He runs an ancestral hunting school. Great dude.

He's, he's done Sundance. I think 17 times has worked with many Lakota elders. Awesome fucking guy. Maybe 10 years older than me. He's in his fifties. Also a dad. And he was telling me,

you know, most of the people he works with is in hunt in his hunting school are first timers. Yeah. Right. And there's nothing wrong with that, but he was, he said, you know, most of the people he works with in his hunting school are first timers. Yeah. Right. And there's nothing wrong with that. But he said, you know, he got this woman who, and that generally isn't the case. Most of the time, like we go to a sheepdog, the instructors there will tell you they'd rather have a woman who's never shot a gun in her life as a student than a dude who's a gun lover because the dude has more bad shit built into his habits.

And the female doesn't. She also has no ego about shooting. Right. Right. that wasn't the case with this chick in the hunting she goes she goes i'm a pro hunter i know exactly what i'm doing didn't own her own rifle there was a whole bunch of red flags and so it was just funny listening to that but you know at the and you coach people as well the more you're in the game it really stands out to me who comes with a beginner's mind and who, you know, is a little harder to teach because they got shit figured out at least on a, on a, some level, right. Where you're just like, Oh, you got this figured out. All right. You can take it away. You know, go for it. Yeah. And Don Howard used to say that too. When I lived with him,

that a person that comes to spirit quest had never even smoked cannabis is actually the person that will benefit most and i had the wrong impression i was like oh you should have these prerequisites handled before you go to the jungle maybe do a little microdose or you know and he goes no actually the people that come with zero expectations and that beginner's mind with gratitude and then he teaches reciprocity which is i need um that's that's the orientation that he's helped me to bring forth in my life is just, if someone gives me the Airbnb, like my friend Dylan's mother brought me to Austin,

I'm washing the dishes. I'm going to pay for all their dinners. I'm going to try and give, give, give and be in gratitude. And that's the orientation of a lifetime. You can get all of your resources stripped from you, but you have this huge backpack full of gratitude and reciprocity. I love that brother. Let's talk, I want to dive into who you were growing up. You know, I've had, I still haven't had Ryan Mitchell, I'll call you out by name or a Barry Arata on the podcast, but I've had lots of friends in fire department, Doug Hospital Horns down in Phoenix, good buddy. You know, and it was something that I Phoenix. Good buddy. Um, you know, and it was something that I really loved and wanted to do, you know, while I was fighting

and then at different points went through the schooling and whatnot. And, and at the end of the day, just, it just pointed me in a different direction. Sure. I had tried to get on at San Jose and they actually turned me down. Uh, hadn't done a ton of homework on the interview process at that point. You know, I was studying a little bit, but not really like doing enough interviews to do well in that interview. And it was a huge blessing, you know, like, like mad love to San Jose fire, but it's a huge blessing how it turned out. But I still have just the utmost respect for the job itself,

what you guys put yourselves through. And, and also, you know, the benefits that are there, because a lot of people don't know the fullness of how hard your job is, you know, and that's not a Hollywood thing. It's just like people aren't privy to the depths of the shit you guys see. And at the same time, the thing that attracted me is real, right? The camaraderie is real. The, the, the team, the atmosphere that you guys create together is real. Uh, and the home-like environment that you create, you know, I've been running this farm for three years and thinking about we're not like an office.

We're more like a fire department. I keep having that conversation with the people we work with on why it's so important that all of our ducks are in a row, why our communication must be on point. Because, you know, we're around each other a lot more than somebody just working a nine-to-five. Sure. You know, and what's on the line here,

it's not lives on the line, but sure you know and what's on the line here it's not lives on the line but you know a lot and some life is on the line if you consider plants and animals if anything to respect right so yeah uh what was life like growing up what got you in the fire service and then tell us about you know the path that you've been on most recently with the medicine and everyone yeah he's there it's a lot to unpack. Take the whole podcast. Yeah, Cliff Note version. I was raised by two amazing people. I'm adopted. They had me since an early, I think a couple days old.

My mom couldn't have kids, so she decided she wanted to be a mother, so she adopted my sister first two years before me and then me. So that was a unique upbringing, being told when you're a very little kid, I don't even remember the moment because they told me from as early as I can remember that you were adopted. And from an early age, I wasn't taught this. I did have a relationship to that experience as grateful. I remember laying in bed at night and sort of praying, and my prayer was deeply connected to thank you for these parents. Because I would lean into this.

I remember being young and thinking about all the possible ways that it could have went bad. Like maybe not being here or being raised by abusive parents or whatever the circumstance could have been that could have been worse. And I don't know why I was oriented towards that. Even my parents said that my sister didn't handle hers well. Hers was more suffering and sort of curious, like always, who are my real parents? And there was a lot of resentment involved. Why wasn't I chosen or why didn't they keep me? Yeah, a lot of that sort of victim mentality. And I always have been deeply curious about where does that even come from?

Is it culturally conditioned or are we born inherently with an older archetypal genetic coming through with this natural predisposition like my parents don't work out and i was always sort of disciplined i didn't drink soda growing up and it was all around me it was weird it wasn't like we had life coaches and instagram reels of don't eat sugar and go get blue you know all that shit wasn't there but i naturally was self-disciplined and had these elements. So I don't think I can take pride or say, I say I'm lucky a lot. And a lot of people go, no, you chose that. And I say, you know, I've actually looked deeply at my life and I've looked at a lot of suffering and I realized like, I'm lucky.

There's people trying to get a big gulp and they're trying to do, you know, whatever drug it is for the day. And it's not really their fault. Not saying we don't have will, but I think the first step of will to me is to realize you have very little and that the first component of will to me has always been gratitude. My relationship to this experience is something's happening,

which is way beyond our comprehension. Even the best physicists can't tell what the hell's going on. I've had my own subjective experiences that were like, okay, we don't know what's going on. We don't know what happened before we got here. We don't know where we're going. It's a big mystery. So you should be grateful for the fact that there's something happening from nothing. So that's my, and as I get older now, I really cultivate that as like my orientation. And I'm going off in the weeds, but it's really the foundation of like what I think it came from being adopted

and being raised by good people that are very loving. And they don't have a lot of money. I was pretty poor growing up. You know, I bought my- Did you grow up in Phoenix? In Sierra Vista. It's a little tiny town. Did we meet through Lars Havens?

Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, because we've known each other for a while. But I think it was Lars and Christian Grzynski. Yep, he was in my graduating class. Those guys were fucking great. When I first got into MMA, we were loosely our own little team boxing together because Lars had boxing experience.

Right, cool. And I didn't know him that well in high school, but I think he did connect us. So that's pretty interesting. Yeah, I grew up in a little town. I actually saw a kid chop his hand off my freshman year in woodshop, the whole hand and freshman year. I saw that and I saw the fire department come. And I remember being very present for that for some reason, while people were shitting their pants and the fire department came and they were very good at the managing of the situation. And I thought, well, that's interesting. So maybe that was my first encounter of a traumatic event where I saw people jump in and handle it really well.

And I think I might have even been the person that called 911 from what I recall. I think multiple people ran to the phone and I was just one of those people that just sort of acted. So I think that was my first encounter where I was like, you know what? I want to do something like that where I can go towards chaos and be effective. My nervous system is built for that in this lifetime at least. I think certain people are born for certain things. The fire department worked out well for me at a young age. I realized in that career too pretty early that you don't want to be identified with it. I saw what happened to the guys. That was their whole thing. And they didn't have hobbies or interests or things when they quit.

And that became its own form of suffering. Right. Which you see in the military. Football. Football. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, since early on, I think five or six years in,

I started to realize I don't want this to become me. I want it to be a cool thing that gives me a cool life with days off and learn to be good at it, but not let it become what staples me as who I am. So you give it, it's an interesting thing. Cause like professional athletes, you're giving your life to that fully, but you only get to give a section of your life to it. Yeah. You know, my dad would always tell me, you know, there'll be a time. And I remember, you know, since I was eight or nine years old playing, uh, pop Warner football and he's like and he'd tell right away how much i loved it and he's like you you know you're really good at it you can keep going you maybe play you play college maybe playing the professionals whatever that looks like it will end at some point always

remember that and i'd literally be like fuck off dude it's not gonna end you know like it's gonna last forever yeah you know i was like i'll cross that road when it comes and he's like it's something you need to be mindful of. And I couldn't understand it because I hadn't, you hadn't really heard from people, you know, there wasn't podcasts, there wasn't people. I mean, even at the time, it's not like we grew up in the 1950s for whatever the 1950s was, but men generally didn't talk openly about their struggles, you know, when it comes to like, Hey, this shit, this is something I went through when I had my whole life taken from me effectively, you know, even Dorian Yates,

who's being big into plant medicines and is now a Yogi and still coaches people in bodybuilding. One of the greatest bodybuilders of all time. He had three things happen in the same year. He had divorce, a death in the family and career ending injury with his triceps being torn. Right. That took him from being the greatest bodybuilder of all time at that point to now not being able to even touch weights for all three in one year. And he jumped off testosterone without any post-cycle therapy or anything at the same time. Like I'm surprised he's here to talk about that.

But yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's cool that you were able to gravitate towards that and see also the little, the little gem drops, you know, the spirit drops, the God nods that poked you in that right direction. Hey guys, I want to take a quick break to tell you about happyhippo.com slash KKP. Use code KKP for 15% off everything in the entire store. Happy Hippo is one of the greatest Kratom companies on the planet. With Happy Hippo, you're getting a product that has been sterilized to pathogens, tested for impurities and heavy metals, and sold with a guarantee. They stand by their products so you can sleep soundly, knowing exactly what is and is not in your Kratom.

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off everything in the entire store. Yeah, I got lucky. I think different teachers like my dog actually has a teacher that slowed me down even. Something as simple as that, she was like my greatest teacher to get me off the hamster wheel of busyness, momentum to like, oh my gosh, she's so present. And I wanted to be home more, which gave me more time to self-reflect and spend time with medicines or meditations or go camp under the stars alone. What got you into the medicine path, meditation, you know, all, all the introspective work, you know, the things that allow you to expand and kind of see through. I think it happened with a back injury. I had a humbling injury. You think you're invincible when you're in your twenties, crossfitting and lifting. And I really thought my avatar was like invincible. And I had three discs bulge and a tear or whatever, pretty common injury, especially for firemen. And, you know, it was like, I couldn't put my boot on, you know, and I, and I, for a whole year, I was in deep pain and it taught me a lot about the, the Western path of like, Hey, you want some pain management? We need to make you pain free.

They tried to offer me Oxycontin and I'm very blessed that I could do some research and realize the opium crisis had already occurred. And so I didn't take pain meds. Um, and they wanted to inject me. I remember going to Burning Man 2012 and I was in so much pain, but the week of Burning Man, there was so much novelty. My pain was gone. And it was the John Sarno stuff where your mind and your nervous system are the reason. I realized that actually when I was out there because I'm riding my bike around and I was pain free after a whole year of being suffering. So that's just one notch of many things. Healing back pain by John Sarno is the book you're referring to.

It's excellent. The psychosomatic understanding of pain in particular with back pain. 100%. And just his ideas and philosophy. The mind-body prescription is another one. And I hadn't read that book at the time. This came way later. A lot of my experiences came subjectively first.

I didn't know there was all these books written about the stuff that I ended up discovering, like in the float tanks and then the plant medicines and things like that. But when I hurt my back, I started seeking to heal and to get rid of the pain. And at first I was seeking movement, yoga, seeking to heal and to get rid of the pain. And at first I was seeking, you know, movement yoga, of course, but it was movement oriented. It was Western minded oriented.

I need to mechanically fix this vehicle. And then I found this thing called a float tank. I think I heard Rogan talking about it real early on, like 2000, maybe nine or 10 or something like that. So I drove across town. I remember driving there and I'm like, what the hell am I doing? Doubting myself. I'm paying 60 bucks to go lay in the stupid bubble.

You know, the whole inner chatter of like, you're, you're an idiot. You should be doing something else. Anyway, I get in there and I'm like, this is miserable. You know, my mind's busy. I had never meditated. Didn't even know that word was a thing. So I found it sort of on a field trip, basically. Let's go lay in this bubble.

I get in there and I'm like, all right, I hate this. I almost want to get out. So I go back. I'm like, you're not going to get busy doing anything until you get comfortable being still. And so I started paying money for these floats and I would go two to three times a week. And on my third float, it was my first time.

I didn't have language for this. I would get out and go journal at the AJ's next door in North Scottsdale like holy shit man all the stuff Carl Jung was wrote and about and all the books now that we read I was thinking I discovered it for the first time in human history you know I gotta tell my friends this is incredible I'm seeing my thoughts removed from them and then I'd see that I was the seer it was this whole profound inner experience so then you go home and try to do some research and you're like, what is this? And then my good friend Ari gave me a mushroom experience, which changed my life because I stared at this giant

mandala for three to four hours. And he gave me permission to just be, he was 10 years older, really cool friend of mine. And he'd traveled had been to nepal and he just looked at me and smiled and he's like just go enjoy yourself like not i had this feeling like should i be talking to our you know all that inner insecurity yeah and he's just like dude be weird basically he gave me full permission so i go and i find this incredible mandala which ended up being called the key to the universe and it was a a sand painting by the little people from Nepal. And it blew my mind. I mean, it took me on a ride the whole night.

It was showing me everything about religion and history. And it blew it open. And it was like, oh my God, now what? Basically, everything I had grown up with was my foundation was Christianity. And it was just like, wow, that story is like right here. It's this little baby part of this little tiny sand painting. And I got to see so much inner working of human consciousness and be hard to describe to someone who's never had an experience like that. But for someone like you, you're like, yeah, I've been there. I've only had one experience. It was

actually the 30 gram journey where I, there was a mandala on the wall that was just there as, as decoration for lack of a better term in the wall that was just there as decoration, for lack of a better term, in the room that I decided to do it in. And when I opened my eyes and looked in that thing, like fucking full on. And then, of course, after the fact, like you're talking about, I'm seeing like 3D interpretations of these as, you know, Tibetan monasteries and like these full on fucking cities, you know, that are woven into this thing. And I was like, Holy,

cause that's what I could say. And so you see like computer animation of it and you're like, yeah, yeah. That thing came out and like the, my whole experience like, like was liftoff from that one thing with me staring at it and going, Oh, you know, I haven't had any journeys of that since we actually took it down because of how powerful that journey was. I didn't want to have it on the wall right yeah i was like let's put up a different one right i mean it's a little decoration a little different yeah and then you come to find out like well these are illegal um why have we been repressing these things that could make you have that type of experience so my whole operating system just basically got super

curious i think growing up my religious relationship was, I don't know why this is, but for some people, you know, they're questioning the matrix from an early age. And for me, I grew up sort of like, eh, I have trust. I had a lot of faith, different kind of faith of like, they gave me a cool story. If I believe that Jesus saved my sins, I don't have to think anymore. As long as I do that, it was a cool, and I prayed every night and had a cool relationship with a higher entity, which was God, this Christian model of God. But man, after that experience, I went, I want to know the truth. And I remember even like praying and saying, I want to get closer to you and find out more and more about the truth. And

you're not going to punish me for that. Yeah. You know? And so I finally started reading books for the first time and listening to podcasts. And I went down the rabbit hole, right? Carl Young, Alan Watts, all these guys. And I became obsessive, you know, started reading a book a week and started to explore more consciousness and had a lot of time because I had no kids. And a friend of mine had given me more of the magic fungi. And I was like, you know what, it takes courage to go alone out in the woods and to do this. And I have time, energy, and I think I'm going to do it. So I spent probably about a year, once a week, if not a little bit more sometimes, alone doing that. And I remember the first half hour was very weird. And I'd always get all the judgment and like, what are you doing? You know, are you wasting your time? And are you, it was hard. It was like, it was a turbulent phase of my life in my late twenties where my mom was concerned about me. I didn't know about integration. These words didn't exist back then. And I found my way, man. I lucked out and landed the ship and was like, you know what? Because at

first I remember even thinking I'm going to quit the fire department. This, this culture, you know, they're watching sports all day. They can't understand me. It was this weird needing validation piece that I didn't quite discover about, you know, wherever you go, there you are, Barjahn's Inn. That book was on my shelf for years before I finally read it. And that mantra was always there for me. It's like, wherever you go, if I move to Chile and quit the fire department, I'm going to be butting up against the same thing. The outside world is the issue. It's not here. And if I have food, shelter, water, a good career where I'm helping people and I have 20 days off and I can't find peace here, I'll never find it if I have infinite money. And so I started to realize that. And I was like,

you know, it's not out there. It's in here. I need to get my relationship status right with, with the universe. And so I wanted to, I quit selling cabinets on the side. I quit being busy. And I started reading books about idleness and slowing down and learning about the breath and pranayama. And it started to make me realize the medicine was to slow it down, you know, for me, because I realized I'm in a culture of momentum and we praise and glorify momentum.

And I realized that's not always the case. That's good. We might glorify it and reward it, but I could see it now. I could see that it was leading to a trap. It was like a false ladder. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's, I'll name them. You know, I've met Alex Ramosi, great fucking guy. He's a go-getter. And, and he is the pinnacle of that. Like, it's not, it's not like, you know, like more and more as, as we have the third wave of the psychedelic Renaissance and more and more people are,

are having these experiences and awakening to greater understandings of themselves and potentially greater understandings of, of reality. There still is a chase that's happening and, and it's very much rewarded and it's very much glorified. And we see it with an Alex Ramosi and we see it with, you know, a David Goggins from the physical sense, right.

Where it's like, holy shit, you know, like dude's doing 50 marathons in a year or whatever, whatever he's doing. Right. And, and,

and hopefully most people can differentiate and say like, that inspires me. I'll do, I'll start with where I'm at and work with what I can and not, you know, all right, I'm going to sign up for fucking 50 marathons a year and destroy myself. Which would 90% of the 99% of the population would destroy themselves trying

to do. But both of those are still in that same, they're still in that same drive. Right. There's no, Oh, I've made it. There's no,

Oh, I, I, now I just, now I chill, you know, now, now, now I, I don't need to run the marathon, you know, I can, I can just hang back and, uh, you know, continue to do the things that I do out of love. Yep. And that comes back to the wishing well thing that Jamie talks about where you're going back thinking you're going to

become a Jedi master. If I keep doing these workshops practices, and then it's like, you know, some of the best guys I've met in my life, they're at my station right now, my engineer, Ryan. He's like the best father, the most integral guy I think I've ever met. He can fix anything, build anything. He's raising two amazing kids. He's an amazing guy and he's the most humble guy

and he'll never probably touch any of these practices. Any esoteric practice is pretty much probably not going to happen in his lifetime. And he doesn't need them. And I've gone to Burning Man where I meet people that think that they're enlightened. And they show you their psychedelic passport. And they tell you that they've got all the... And they're sociopaths. Psychedelic passport.

I'm going to use that. I like that. Yeah, it's freaking crazy. Like, hey, look where I've been. I've done 64 IOS. And you're so enlightened. I'm going to use that. I like, yeah, it's freaking crazy. Like, Hey, look where I've been. I've done 64 iOS and you're so enlightened, but it's just ego, you know? And I'm, I know it's judgment, but it's reality. That is reality. I mean, I met a guy and I want to keep, I want you to keep going, but it's just, this is striking a chord for me. Uh, one of, you know, in the exodus of LA people in New York, people moving here to Austin, you know, we met

some, some actors and guys like that. And this guy told me that he, uh, you know, he's pretty prominent online. He had done ayahuasca like 50 times in a year. And I was like, were you apprenticing? And he was like, no. And I was like, were you healing from something traumatic? And he's like, no. And I'm thinking in my head, like, why the fuck, what, what is the point? And who is the guy that's serving you that many times in a year? Like, if you're not good, that's not going to be your job. Yeah. And you're not healing from something serious like fucking stage four cancer or something really traumatic. Yeah.

You know, like what are you doing? Yeah. You know, like where's the integration? Where's the time off? Where's the, I mean, and I've had, you know, years where I've done once a month and things. And even that, like i thankfully would would show me the same thing each time and finally after like my third month in a row it just dawned on me oh i don't get new information until i do the fucking homework that's been prescribed for me

yeah and personally and this isn't for everyone but my personal homework was meditation and yoga and i didn't have to master anything i just had to start yeah that was the only way I was going to get new downloads it was the only way I was going to have visions outside of me fucking doing meditation and yoga was to start yeah and so I just wondered like is there so many people that get there and then here's the passport yeah it becomes a perpetual cycle of seeking you know and it and it's it's another trap you know and I remember doing it in the jungle at spirit quest four sessions of ayahuasca and then I stayed for the wachuma week and I knew I was probably done with with that medicine until I meant to go back it could be when I'm 50 it could be when I'm 60 maybe never but I was like I have a lifetime of integration you know I didn't

know what to do with that experience I was like it was the most amazing two weeks of my life and then I also realized you shouldn't have to go to the jungle no one no one's been able to go to the jungle until the 90s yeah and so we don't need anything you know we the the idea that you're supposed to even do it ayahuasca is is an illusion yeah well there's that's that's a hard hard thing for me because like much like you wanted to beat the drum on floating and things like that when I first got introduced to I had had some experience with psilocybin and working with my boxing coach who was a medicine man and a cut man in the UFC and just an awesome, awesome dude who really switched me into a different lane. I wanted to beat the drum on ayahuasca because it was so magical and so earth-based and so holy shit. The visions were as real as reality as this is right now, you know,

and profoundly shifting in my consciousness to a point where like, there are certain ways in which that I, it has shaped me for the rest of my life. You know, in particular first vision I had, I became my wife and relived every argument we'd ever had. Wow. And like that changed the nature of our relationship going forward.

And now when we're in, if at any time we even sniff an argument i question oh is this out of love it must be and and what am i not understanding here and what is the need right so like it it literally i don't want to say it saved our relationship or any of that stuff but like it was profound yeah and uh and i wanted to beat the drum on it you know until they were like holy shit this exists like nobody knows about this this exists and aubrey was the only guy talking about it on rogan you know and um as you have i'm sure i've seen a lot of people that don't have that same experience that aren't able to land the ship that aren't able to ground it into reality and a lot of people um you know head the wrong direction and the rails really can come off you know and so that that's that's like a

that's that's a really hard pill to swallow you know we're talking about i remember i used to laugh when people would say like this isn't for everyone that kind of thing or some kind of disclaimer when they're talking about it yeah like shut up and get to the visions yeah give me the fucking good stuff you know right Cut to the funny scene. And it was just, I mean, like, it's brutal when you see somebody you know, and you have that happen to them, and there's just no way of getting back to them, the them that you know, to say, hey, you're okay. Like, let's slow down. Yeah.

Let's rethink some things. You know? Like, they're lost in many ways. They get unhinged. Mm-hmm. And not everyone should do these things. Yeah. You know, they they're lost in many ways. They get unhinged. And not everyone should do these things. You know, it's not right for them. And now that it's being talked about as medicine, which it has its potential, of course, it's only being talked about as ceremony medicine healing. But no one's talking about 90% of the danger and the dark and the shadow of it with all these things.

Ketamine. It's like, let's just have a more holistic, real truthful conversation about all of the other components that are going into this. You know, how are you going to scale 6,000 ketamine clinics and therapists and so-called people that are going to be in the room with someone in the deepest hypnotic state of suggestibility and getting them to be in a disassociated state, which has its really big chance for healing, or you can implant them and create a Manchurian candidate, which has happened, which is happening. And no one wants to hear that

because I remember the first time I encountered the conversation around MKUltra, I'm like, yeah, right. All right, guys, another quick break. Did you know that there is one phase of sleep that almost everyone fails to get enough of? And this one phase of sleep is responsible for most of your body's daily rejuvenation, repair, controlling hunger and weight loss hormones, boosting energy and so much more. I'm talking about deep sleep. And if you don't get enough, you're probably going to struggle with cravings, slow metabolism, premature aging, or even worse conditions. Why don't most people get enough of this one most important phase of sleep? A big reason is magnesium deficiency, because over 80% of the population is deficient in magnesium. And because magnesium increases GABA,

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go to bioptimizers.com slash kingsboo and use promo code KINGSBOO10. That's K-I-N-G-S-B-U, all caps, 1-0, during checkout to save 10%. And if you subscribe, not only will you get amazing discounts and free gifts, you'll make sure that your monthly supply is guaranteed. No way all these guys that I thought were my heroes were being influenced by the CIA. And so I've done more rabbit hole diving on it than anyone I know. But then when you get into the micro world of people that study, you're like, I know nothing. This person's been studying this field and they blow my mind every single time that they talk about the nature of how nefarious and manipulative and intelligent and sophisticated this operation paperclip has been evolving and where it's at now and it's like oh my god be very careful in non-ordinary

states there's so good potential for healing breath work the only words coming out of my mouth when there's a group of people and i'm and i'm even holding space for them is gratitude and trust yourself. And, you know, that's it. Maybe some awe and wonder, but there is no me programming their subconscious mind with my ideological, you know, predispositions. That's not a good idea. And Howard taught me that. He's like, you know, in Ayahuasca, 90% of these people in the jungle are working from sorcery or they don't know any better. Maybe they have good intentions, but they're actually causing more harm because they haven't done enough of their own work to come from the heart. And everybody wants to hurry up and serve the medicine or hold the space

or be the person with the thing, the life coach or whatever. That has absolutely been like a rocket ship, seeing how many people have gone down to the Amazon for, you know, I don't know how many journeys in any way, shape or form the way I looked at it. And I compared this to jujitsu. When I quit fighting, I wanted to open a, uh, an MMA gym. You know, I was like, this is what I know. This is what I'm good at. I want to teach this. It's awesome. I want to be able to teach what, do what I love each day and then teaching, you know, mixed martial arts would be great. And, uh, so I was thinking about starting, uh, you you know a school and it'd have to have a jiu-jitsu program and that kind of thing

and then i remember rolling with robert drysdale and i talk about him a lot but i got my ass beat so bad i didn't think i was gonna win let me just clarify but i got beaten so handedly and i realized he's been a black belt longer than i've been training right this is his life when he goes home he's thinking about jiu-jitsu when go home, I'm not thinking about jujitsu. I'm like entertaining my kids or thinking about this or fucking reading the Manchurian candidate. Like, I want to know like big picture shit. It's a small part of my life. And I thought I'd be doing them a disservice if it wasn't my entire life.

Right. If my life didn't revolve around that. And there are jujitsu schools where the coach that's his fucking passion. Yeah. Right. Same thing for, for psychedelics. I always use the black belt analogy and there's a lot of white belts serving medicine. Yeah. But even if you got your black belt,

there's levels of order to black belt, right? Like Don Howard is 100% correct. And, and it needs to be their whole life. Like the person we went, the couple we went and sat with the last two times I've, I've sat with Aya,

uh, a merry-go-round Olga down at Sultara. Dude's in his 50s and wife is in her 50s. He's been serving for 30 plus years. She's been serving for 15. I asked why the discrepancy in time. She said, I raised our children until they were 15 and then I joined them. Like fucking awesome, dude.

That's their whole life. Their whole life has been around that medicine and intergenerationally it's been around the medicine right like that's who I want serving me I would I would fucking feel really weird you know like however much experience I went down and spend a year at this place it's like it's not my whole life yeah you like, and I think about it that way, you know, like I want to sit with the people, Dr. Dan Engel, a friend of ours. It's like, when you're going to do psychic surgery, you want the guy with a scalpel to have a steady hand. Totally.

You know, that's the high level black belt that's made it their entire life. Yep. And I've heard Jamie wheel talk about big wave surfing and you know, there's people that go out, catch a couple of waves and then they're leading people out into these giant deep big hundred foot waves and you're gonna get pummeled you might even lose your mind and so a lot of times I tell people maybe you because they'll come and ask like hey maybe I'm thinking about trying this and it's like just be patient and be curious and really do your homework don't just get caught up in the hype of who's telling you where to go and what to do and consider maybe you don't need it, you know, and then you'll find

it when you sort of say, you know what, I'm going to do something like this because I know I need the medicine or whatever. But I like to tell people, like I've just told you about Ryan, he's awesome and he's never done it. And, you know, maybe it would be beneficial for him to have a beautiful experience of breath work or mushroom someday or whatever it is that he finds. But right now he's already awesome. He's already got a great heart and he's already, you know, serving the public and raising kids. And he's an amazing guy. And I think there's just a lot of, um, we glorify it too much, you know, and I, I'm, I was huge evangelical oh yeah i'm like oh my god everyone needs this i used to be like graham hancock where all politicians should do this and now i'm like

wait a minute it would just amplify people and then we'd have a real problem let's i want to talk about amplification but did you see before uh uh trump's before the election the one with trump where they showed him like with a CGI from AI going down to the Amazon and then he no longer was a president and he grew a beard and like brought people through breath work and the whole fucking thing. I'm like, I doubt it. It was so way off.

Like, I was like, that's not how that works. That's not how that works. That's pie in the sky. I would like to see the real version of how that works, but maybe not in this lifetime. But yeah,

that, I think that's what they are is nonspecific amplifiers. And if in the wrong environment, the wrong container, the wrong orientation, it can just get weirder and worse. Yeah. Which I've seen. I like Bobby's stance, getting to know him. He's been out to the farm.

We did a really cool sweat lodge with him and his medicine guy who's been on the podcast. I think you got to meet Chase Iron Eyes out in Sedona. Yeah. Bobby had addiction and has talked about that and has been in recovery, as they say, you know, for X amount of years. And so he doesn't touch anything,

but his children have worked with ayahuasca and different plant medicines. And like the way he described it, like he'll well up describing their experience and knows as a father, the impact that that's had positively. And it's like, you can't take that away. That's a real thing. Right. And so he, he has that, the level of understanding of the value in it. And at this moment, not for him. Yeah. Right. And so like, I totally respect the fuck out of that. Whereas five, 10 years ago, I'd have been like, but you really don't understand you really ought to you know and it's like no no man like your dick your buddy ryan

i get that path too especially when he's you know living the the mantra head up heart open yeah right like when you when you already are serving the medicine in your own way uh it there's no need there i mean my my sister who I love dearly, um, I had a vision on my 10th journey of, uh, of, of, I realized she's never going to drink ayahuasca with me. And in part it was because of all the drugs, the bad drugs I had introduced her to as a kid, like, Hey, I just got ketamine from Mexico.

We're going to soak weed in it and I'll air dry it. And we're going to smoke this. It's going to smell like burnt plastic, but we're going to get super high. She's like, okay. You know, like whatever the thing was, I don't know if she even smoked ketamine weed with me, but I had introduced to her enough stupid shit that she was just like, what, this is just the new drug, Kyle. I'm not in on that. And, um, and it sucked for me at the time because I was so evangelical. And then I, in that journey, it was like, oh, I get to drink for both of us. You know, and you don't need to drink. I get to drink for both of us. And I still have like whatever impact that is that I have on her will be from my heart.

It's not going to be from me convincing her to fucking drink plant medicine. Right. You know, it's going to be from who I become as a person and as a brother and as an uncle to her children. Right. That actually matters at the end of the day. That's right. Yeah.

And people get evangelical about, you evangelical about whatever religion they're coming from or AA or whatever you find that works for you. It's easy to go, I want other people to find this and feel this. It comes from a beautiful place, and righteousness is an evolved trait that serves us, but it also creates problems, and it's nice to be like, you know what, this is working for me, whatever my medicine. But I don't go shove breathwork down people's throat i don't go talking about it

i know the benefit of it i don't go selling gratitude to people but i know that if i show up grateful and i practice a relationship with the breath it works for me you know like this morning i get out and go out get in the sun and i did breath work and it's like that's my morning rituals to connect with the sun and the breath and feels amazing. And that's all I can do, you know, and I might sell it a little bit because I know people need it, but, um, it's free, you know, I just feel like the free stuff's the best stuff. Yeah. Well, it's, it's great too, because you, when it comes to breath work and it's, and I, I've known, I've mentioned this before, but it is worth mentioning. The first time I went to do this was with Anahata in Sedona.

And I had a very egotistical approach where it was like, I'm going to do this just so I can speak to it for other people who aren't willing to do plant medicines. But because I've done plant medicines, this ain't going to be shit. You know, and had a full-on visionary experience, like full-on out of body,

full supercharged, you know, all curled up, everything just blasted. Full vibrational, you know, all curled up, everything just blasted on it. Full vibrational, you know, like there's some, some like 5-MeO, you know, it, where it supercharges every cell in the body. That's what breathwork is for me. Like it supercharges every cell of the body and there's a visual component in some of them and, um, and incredibly healing. But I, I'm always, I always have the, the, the wherewithal to say yes to more or no, I want to back down now. Yeah. Right. Which you don't get in psychedelics. You don't get that at

all. It's fucking buckle up and, and, and be a part of the ride. Cause now you're a part of the ride for however long it's going to last. And, um, that's something I always appreciated about breath work and, and it is free. Once you know how to do it, you know how to do it. I personally, you know, it's not a practice of mine where it's a daily thing. And I know there's a million forms of breath work, just like meditation. So I don't know if you were going hard to the paint Wim Hof style this morning or what you were doing. But generally, if I'm going to have an altered state of consciousness version of breath work,

I like that in a group. I like that with other people cheering me on. I like it with music blasting. You know, I like to have those experiences held like a ceremony. I wouldn't have a ceremony every day with anything. Sure. You know, I want to be able to integrate that stuff as well. But, um, breathwork is, is far beyond what I thought it was just hearing about it far beyond. And I understand I used to look at Stanislav Grav, you know, when LSD became illegal and he switched over to, and he created all the tropic breathwork and continued to use the similar modalities he had created through

LSD work with patients he was now doing with breathwork. I was like, it's not a one for one. What are you doing? You know, and then like, and then the experiences that I've had now, I'm like, oh, I understand why he stayed in that route. I totally understand. And Grav likely knows a lot of the history that we know now, right? So you introduced me to Robert Forte, which was awesome. He's a fucking great guy. I've introduced him to Paul Cech. Mad gratitude that that seed comes from you. He's just a beautiful human and really adept, but not jaded is a great way to put it in my mind. Because I think if it's's easy if you know the things robert knows and looked in the places that we've looked to become bitter about

the world around us and and maybe not have a an optimistic view of what's of where we're heading and those kind of things yeah and robert's just the fuck he's the fucking real deal he's a complete guy you know he's a beautiful beautiful human So I appreciate that. What was your first introduction into, you know, where, where maybe the glimmer and the, and the, and the starlight started to fade and you realize like, maybe there's some other piece of this story when it comes to plant medicines history, when it comes to our government's history and things of that nature. Fit for service, as you know, know is is coming to a close in the era of aubrey marcus and myself but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop running full temple reset with eric godsey it is one of my favorite things to do every year in the winter time we like to bring people together

a small group of people for an immersive where we do fasting we hit the sauna and ice bath every single day we mobilize and open up the body there's a sound healing at the end of it. And every day, Godsey is tasking people with journaling prompts, getting people into Jungian psychology, internal family systems, and really unpacking the psychology of who we are. It's a reset for the body. It's a reset for the mind. And it's a reset for the spirit. Check it out at fitforservice.com or the link in the show notes, which will go directly to Full Temple Reset. Come to the farm and see us in person March 12th through the 16th, 2025. That's March 12th through the 16th. See it at fitforservice.com and back to our program.

God, there's so many things there. And man, when I found Robert, my friend, Emil, who I met in the jungle, he's an an engineer he's like the most level-headed friend awesome guy i have in my life he's one of my favorite people and he always sends me beautiful things too like you and i do we always share good things and he's like have you ever heard of this robert guy and i'm like no and he goes you have to listen so i did dude he blew my mind right and i'm like okay this guy articulates it very well but way before Robert I had dipped into uh the subject matter of MKUltra and all the dark shadowy stuff and I think it stemmed from during that back injury and I went to Burning Man I met this crew of people that brought me there they're like drive the 40-foot RV you can come out this is 2012 and this guy had his long hair and

he was a multi-millionaire and I don't know how he inherited his money or whatever it was crazy guy man this is a rabbit hole I don't think I've even shared this story with many people but you asked and anyway I get out there and I see them and they're like the type that spends six hours getting ready for the freaking photo out there and so I just yeah I ditch this crew pretty easily I'm a pretty, I like to just explore. I don't identify with groups much. That's exactly how my wife is. Yeah, I like just threw on a backpack,

a little bit of food in the bag and I would just munch on these little fungi all day. And I cruised. I had a seven day experience by myself meeting people and had a great time. Met people that I couldn't believe I met out there. It was amazing. But I would come back to camp and they're still getting ready four hours later and they're you know doing lines of ketamine or whatever they're doing just just crazy people

well i come to find out he's like a scam artist this guy and like ripped all these people off for millions of dollars created these false products one was called sober up get you sober after a night's drinking whatever the product was and this guy goes and does ayahuasca and goes and does all these medicine journeys and presents himself as this healing shamanic type character. And so I saw through the veil there because I was just starting to get cracked open during those years of my life and thinking, man, everyone's a good person that does these things. And so easily to be swept into anyone that does yoga is a good person because they're soft-talking and they're nice and they act cool on the surface. It's just not that way.

I started to do some research and to find out these things. Some of the first books I would discover were just talking about the surface level of MKUltra and the CIA. You're like, is this real? I had a guy named John Irving or something. It's like, I forget how he spells his name, Jan Irving. He's a radical. And even Robert goes, he's too abrasive. And this guy floods my inbox. He looks at my Instagram or Facebook at the time. This is years ago. And he's like, dude, you must be part of the CIA. All the shit you're posting is part of the op or whatever.

And I was just posting Terrence McKenna videos or whatever it was. Yeah, he goes, don't you know McKenna was this and that? So he has this beautiful article called Manufacturing the Deadhead. I highly suggest people read it. Even if you don't buy into all of it, it's just like Alex Jones. Take 80% of it. Take 20%. Just listen.

And this guy, you know, he obviously goes too far, too deep, and he gets radicalized. But I started to go, oh my God, he's on to something. And I started to realize that this whole hippie movement was manufactured way before I found Robert Forte. And Jean had this podcast called Gnostic Media or something. And he would have different people on that knew this subject matter. And Robert had talked to this guy a while back,

but they got into it because he was just too crazy. What's weird enough, Rogan had him on way early, and it's one of the missing episodes that's no longer. So early on, Rogan had this dude on, and I don't know why he removed the episode. It's very strange. And you can probably find it. It was weird.

And he hates Joe Rogan. Wow. So even in the email, I have email exchanges with me and this dude, and he's like, fuck Joe Rogan. He's part of the op, right? You start to hear all this stuff. You're like, what is going on, right? And I'm the type that doesn't believe anything. I'm more like, you know, I don't know much.

Let's just keep learning and have a good time. And I think the reason I'm able to explore into weird, darker realms is because I want to know the truth. But I don't let it affect me because I know that I'm here. And I don't know how I got here and I don't know where I'm going. So my faith is there. I can go into really weird spaces and I don't expect my mom or anyone I know to read Robert Forte for seven hours like I did I'm sitting in the in the this weird coffee shop when I found Robert I was in I paid his patreon thing I'm like I'm gonna read everything that he's written and I spent seven

hours at a coffee shop blowing my mind right he's an incredible writer too great writer and even when I'm reading it I'm like dude you're a weirdo like how many people are reading Robert Forte on a Sunday afternoon none I'm like yeah that's what I like to do you know I like to read about weird things like you do it's like I love having friends like you that I can go down the rabbit hole with but yeah and as I sent you the podcast you're just sort of like uh I'll get to it I'm like dude check it out I fired it again oh yeah and then you were like holy shit dude how do I get him on? But that's how I felt when I started finding this stuff.

Tom O'Neill during COVID, when he started talking about chaos, it blew my mind too. I'm like, oh. He's been on your podcast, right? Yeah. I went to his little house and we had a chat about it. That's rad. I'll link to that in the show notes so people can have a place to get to what you're doing. And I even email him about guests I'm having on now, like Rick Spence I had on the other day who's been on Lex.

And Rick studies secret societies, and he's fascinating. He spent his whole life writing these books about it. And another guy, I forget the guy I interviewed that wrote about Poisoner in Chief, Jolly and West and all these guys, these people that were part of MKUltra's psychotherapeutic models of how do we hypnotize people and create mentoring candidates. Stephen Kinsner is his name. He goes, he might be a limited hangout, dude. And so he's able to help me discern who I'm talking to because he spent 30 years doing that stuff.

Wow. So now I use him as him and Robert are like two of my people that I'll use to help decipher what am I encountering? Because I don't want to give people a platform either to talk about these things, to divert people's attention. Yeah.

You know, and it's easy to happen. I think it's part of the nature of communicating openly. You know, it's like this. I don't know if in 10 years I'll regret half the things I say, but that's the risk you have to take when you speak and learn and explore.

Yeah. But I mean, we're living, uh, it's, this is public, right? Like we're, we're, we're living and we're being honest and we're being open about where we are and things do change. And that's, that's absolutely human to change. For some reason, you only get disqualified if you're a politician and you decide to change your mind, you know, but but but it is quite human everybody changes their mind if they're if they're willing to see and take in evidence of the other and and then maybe they

don't and you're gonna make mistakes and the best part of learning is unlearning like you said to come with the beginner's mind is much easier but if you're not the gift of learning is to learn how to unlearn and let go like half of learning is letting go at least for me it's always like otherwise you're clinging to what you think you know which is a real problem yeah of ideology it's like that is the parasite that keeps you from expanding and going into some spaces that maybe are uncomfortable because most of the truths are uncomfortable you learn about the nature of operation paperclip and you're like, Ooh, I don't want to believe that the whole CIA is a giant nefarious thing that they experimented on our own public and they're still doing it today. People just go, I don't want to touch it. Yeah.

I'm like, no, we have to touch it. We have to go into it. We have to see where it's at and what it is. And certain people are meant to do that and certain aren't it's a weird thing for me too i mean you get this with 9-11 but you know you talk to somebody and i liked um what was his name the guy who did uh the documentary thrive i met him at burning man foster foster foster he goes we use we use the uh 9-11 as like a litmus test like what are your thoughts on uh 9-11 as like a litmus test. Like, what are your thoughts on 9-11? You know, like their reaction to it tells them like, can we even go any further? Right, like here's our entry point.

You know, like if you're with that, then maybe you've taken a dive into some other stuff. But if you're not there yet, then like probably all the rest of the shit I want to talk about is not going to apply. I do that with people. Like how deep can we go? Yeah. You know, my mother's like that like the last time i saw her she's very just not willing to go most places and that's because it doesn't work for her and i'm like good you should stay ignorant to those things which makes you an

amazing woman that show you can love all these people and do all the things that you're doing she shouldn't be reading about mk ultra she doesn't have to hold it no i think about that with my mom like you don't certain people just like plant medicine, certain people aren't capable of holding that and still functioning in a way that's productive. And I don't mean productive for the machine. I mean, productive for themselves. Yeah. Like where they can go out and have, uh, sovereignty in the decisions that they make and to not live in fear, but to live in love, you know, you don't have to hold that either. You know, guys like us can hold that and be mindful of it, you know, and see, you know, how do I wrap this back into the fabric of my view? Yeah. Right. Like, uh, Gaffney talks about that. You

know, you have your rolemate, soulmate and homemade and without getting into the whole thing, you know, rolemate is, is what it is. Like it's a rolemate, you know, like I go to work, my wife stays at home and takes care of the kids and she's a homeschool teacher. So she's got that and we both clean, but I like to vacuum and I like to do dishes. She does the laundry, whatever. Those are just your fucking roles. Right. Right. Then your soulmate is this is your person you're willing to do anything for. And whether that stretches lifetime after lifetime, that remains to be seen.

But at least right now, that's your fucking person through and through. Homemade is what you grow into, and this can be beyond, obviously, marriage, but homemates are the people that you stand arm in arm in with, and you look out to the horizon, and you see a shared vision of the horizon, and you have a shared idea of how to approach that horizon.

And this is something that I really like, because a lot of what gaffney is writing about now with guys like ken wilber and dr zach stein uh in uh what is it 40 50 god damn it i gotta read it first principles and first values by a doctor david j temple which is a pseudonym for the three of them. He really outlines the need for this new story. Jamie Will is writing a new book. He's talking about the need for this new story. Cool.

And I like the idea of a new need for a new story because it should include everything. It should include our relationship to spirit. What does that look like? It should include all of these things. But we have to come arm in arm and have a shared view of the horizon. Yeah. Right. That's the only way we, we move and operate together. Yeah. But I want to find people like Gaffney who also knows that there's this underbelly of things most people won't look at. How do we hold that and also fit it into what the horizon is? Right. Right. Because a lot of people don't want to see any of the dark shit when they look at the horizon.

They want to see, like, this is the pretty part, you know, where we get to go, you know, if we just hang this left turn and go straight, then we're going to be fine. Yeah. And we don't need to worry

about the other shit. And it's like, well, but we kind of have this backlog. We have a history here of things that have been going on that are, you know, that are, they're not good. Right.

And likely are still going on to this day. Yeah. And we can probably prove that in many ways. I think of the 9-11 thing, it's like the Tuskegee experiments. You're like, oh, but that was so long ago. Like, no, it wasn't. Yeah, it's right there. It's right there.

And people are still suffering to this day. Black people are still suffering to this day from it. And you just think for one second how fucked up that is. And if you don't look at that then why would you trust how can you not realize that people are psyop to take the jab now so you have to look at history to know how you got here and if you don't look at that the nefarious elements the schismogenic component of the mk ultra is like explain that word please because it's just creating uh robert said it in europe with when you interviewed him it was like like, create schisms.

And you create all these little ideas, and you get people so fragmented. And if you understand what happened in Nazi Germany and what they learned through their experimentation on people, what they learned is they took it and they started to do it here. And then they start to hire all the social psychologists, all the best thinkers about the mind, to understand the nature of it as a weapon. And now it's like, okay, we understand how to get people. It's the art of war.

It's like you get people confused, fragmented, separated. You break down the family unit. There's all these components to it, and it's working so well. It's working so well. The institutions are hijacked by these ideologies so it's a giant operation that takes 100 years or 60 years and we're in the order of it so in the 1950s you go to where 2024 you're like how did we get here most people are just there's no way to articulate it brian callen last night laid it out so well in his comedy which is art which helps people to see it and laugh and go

on a ride he's so theatrical it was beautifully done and he just did it it was so well and like we need the music and the artists and the movies to teach us because otherwise people aren't going to find out they're not going to go read the books about it and and it's time to wake up you know and you're never awake you're never awake I think we're always like waking up. There's an infinite game of like paying more and more attention and then having a little more discernment. And if you don't have discernment, like I almost lost my job for the jab. Thank God I didn't get it. But now no one's talking about it. or the people that were coercing you into it or fell victim to the PSYOP or got jabbed

are unwilling to reckon with the fact that there's something horribly wrong here. There is a bunch of people that are for the next 20, 30 years going to suffer from this experiment. And it was done nefariously. And it's like, let's stop acting like it didn't happen and let's pull it up and pull it.

We have to keep talking about it. Yeah. And I am that guy. I don't care. I don't care if it makes it weird. You know, I talk about 9-11 still and I've had people shut it down. Like, don't talk about that. I'm patriotic.

Well, if you're patriotic, this is even more of a reason to question. Far more. Yeah. Right. And so it's like, you know, you got to be the one that pokes the bear sometimes and makes people uncomfortable. Not like Dr. Jack Cruz. I respect him. But, you know, I'm trying to help him communicate in a way or maybe just realize he is what he is. A zebra is a zebra and be grateful for that.

But take what he's teaching because he's very smart and go, how do I communicate this and understand? Why would you call these people idiots when you understand the psyop? I think of Dr. Jack Cruz. He's so brilliant. He just laid out in the Danny Jones podcast for four hours. He understands the system. So why would you be surprised when everybody got the jab? He's the most sophisticated psyop in human history.

And so we shouldn't be mad at people. We should love them. I should love the guys at work and the people that are in my communities. And when you see them walking around and they're confused and disoriented and afraid and they're being manipulated, it's like, let's show up, as Howard would say, right here, not here, and try to communicate with them. Like Thich Nhat Hanh is one of my favorite authors and people. And he would come over and talk to the generals during Vietnam and bring peace. And one of his books is Peace at

Every Step and the Art of Communication. And when I read his book, I used to think, I'll just talk the way I want to talk and be who I want to be and fuck everyone. If I ruffle feathers or I offend people, that's their problem. And then I realized, well, I'm just doing a disservice because if I don't disarm someone and they don't hear the message because I come at them with a Danny Jones podcast, that's just going to create blinders. I'd rather know, get to the surface, connect on the level that we can, and build and build. And each person's different.

And you can't appease everybody. You're not trying to walk on eggshells, but you're trying to figure out how do I truly communicate and connect with people right where they're at and honor and respect the fact that they got duped, and I'm getting duped as we speak so we're all sleepy to some degree and waking each other up in different ways i just saw dr jack crew when i interviewed him he was it was his first time talking about any of it it was before he went on danny jones oh wow he's pent up with all this shit from 40

years of being angry as he should be and he's just like i don't give a fuck about your family and you and you know these people are this and that and i'm like dude i'm just trying to communicate with the average person if you come at them with it this way they're not going to hear you yeah well get i'm talking to the savages it's like well then you're in an echo chamber you know because i'd rather talk to my mother and my neighbor and the deli counter woman and the people these are the people the whole point is to help people to feel good and my neighbor and the deli counter woman and the people these are the people the whole point is to help people to feel good and to minimize suffering in my opinion it's like that's my goal in life is to have a good time learn and expand but also minimize suffering in

my own life and in others yeah um so there's a lot to it it's like there's a lot to it there's triage involved too and as a first responder i've realized we're pretty good at triage. And if you want to get to the most effective thing you can do in a chaotic situation is go to figure out what that is. And I think Operation Paperclip and these things that we're talking about aren't just like woo woo, wasting your time. It's like, no, let's look at the it went wrong and how did we get here and start to call it out and start to build a narrative, as you said. And as these people are trying to build a new story, we have to include how we have schismogenic behavior, fragmented societies, how to prevent ourselves from being isolated, separated, divided, left group, right group, blue, red. It's all an illusion, you know, and that's what they want. And it's working an illusion you know and that's what they want and it's working you know so i'm thinking like we have to understand the dark stuff to know how to build the light stuff yeah i like that to me it gives me a more complete picture it gives a more complete picture of of our history too you know i think which is necessary it's like if you don't understand history you're doomed to repeat

it and uh that to me and and also get diving in too. I know you're taking a deep dive into like the fourth turning and the yugas and all these things. And it's like, well, we're participating in these cycles of time. And there's cycles within cycles within cycles. Seasons within seasons. And so I think having a framework of that gives us a good idea of what's to come and how to approach it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm reading Joanna Macy.

I've never tapped into her work, but Jamie Weal recommended her for a long time now. So on this flight, I actually got into like page 50 on the flight here, and I'm excited to finish it. It's called Active Hope. And it's all about action and having not just this hope where you're like, oh, I just hope it gets better. It's like, no, there's a whole action plan built within it. And she seems to have more of a Zen approach to it. But it seems really well done. And a lot of deep thinkers that have helped build this book together.

It's not just her writing it. Yeah, so I'm excited to read it. But we need more people that are the visionaries that also have the systemic action plans that people can sort of tangibly take from it and put into to action like you're doing out here on this land yeah yeah i mean i think i was just telling i joked with bear uh yesterday about the the before enlightenment chop chop wood carry or chop wood carry water after enlightenment chop wood carry water yeah he just got a log splitter and we fired up the fireplace when it got to freezing temperatures for the first time in our new home. And, um,

you know, he was laughing. He's like, what does that mean? It was like, well, when you're starting out, chop wood, carry water,

do the work that's necessary. And when you've got it all figured out and you're, you're your best self, you do the same fucking thing. Yeah. Right. Like you're going to go back to doing the same thing. You'll do it as a different person.

Yeah. But it's going to be. Yeah. And I think that, that people can get frozen you know from the fear standpoint in like how do i do how do i approach this what you know and it's just like do what you know to do yeah right do the next frozen to do the next right thing yeah right you don't have to see the end of the line just do the next fucking right

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I love this product. I actually really like the honey product. I think it's incredible. I mix it in with tea or coffee, whatever I'm doing that day. That's BlackLotusShilajit.com and enter code KKP for 15% off. Yeah, the little stuff's the big stuff. Yeah, it's the daily habits. It's the little things you're doing. It's your character over time. It's not the giant ayahuasca experience every weekend that that guy said. He has 56 trips or whatever. And you're like, dude, at what point

do you go? Jamie always talks about how you have 80% of people's heads underwater, and you get your head popped above water, and then you just keep trying to enlighten yourself. But it's like, how do we get everybody's head above water? That would be a nice starting point. Just help the average person and get the societal things fixed. You know, we're so focused on this transhumanism and longevity and trying to live to be 160 and get to Mars. And it's obvious that it's a giant hoax. You know, like maybe we came from Mars. Mars burned up because we planted, you know, we don't know what Mars is.

But we can't even get a biosphere worked out here in the perfect container in Tucson, Arizona. They have that little biosphere. Yeah, that's right. I remember reading about that. Yeah, and it's failed. Didn't Andrew Weil participate in that years ago? Yep, and a bunch of other really brilliant people. 20 of the smartest people on earth or something like that.

And we can't get it right. And it's like that's not shipping things up to Mars to get it right. And then you're going to get up there and you're going to have the same psychological, authoritarian, all the issues of the psyche here are going to be up there. So it's like just trashing your bedroom and then going out to the next room and trashing that room and then going to the kitchen and trashing that room

and thinking it's all going to get better if we just go to the next spot. So I just think, man, what a waste of resources and orientation. We're flying through space on the most beautiful... I saw that on IA. I zipped up and turned into a feathered hawk, but then it was like, all right, it gave me more pressure to keep going up and upipped up and turned into like a feathered hawk. But then it was like, all right, gave me more pressure to keep going up and up and up. And I would see the planets. And it was so incredibly intelligent and old. And I'm like, you're supposed to save the planet. It

was so funny to think that it was my job to save this thing. I was like, this thing is so much older and wiser. It's like, I'm a part of the planet, but I'm not supposed to save it. Yeah, that was a I love that experience. And that, but I'm not supposed to save it. Yeah, that was a, I love that experience. And that too, it's not a, it's not ultra common, but it is common enough, you know, from a trip standpoint with Aya that, that, that once those comms are made directly enough with, with Gaia, that consciousness that it's like, don't worry about me. Worry about yourself. Yeah.

Worry about humanity. I'm going to, I've been here before you guys. I'm going to be here long after you guys. And maybe you're not going to be here gonna be here like all species are extinct almost and so we're so um i think we're so self-important some of our narratives have created this idea that humans are the we're different than all other animals and plants and i think that's separate from nature that's where it all began the the root problem was like the separation. Yeah. And a lot of the Native American cultures and whatnot have this reciprocity and this understanding of gratitude and reciprocity and the interconnectedness of all things. And it's like,

if I can just take some of those components and integrate that into my relationship to world, life, people, that's a probably good starting point. Yeah point yeah it's hard enough to manage that yeah you know and if we can get a level of consciousness shift to where maybe people started to think that way that's where i would see the most bang for your buck return not throwing aluminum chemicals in the air and trying to reflect the sun back and geoengineering and man you're creating all these unintended consequences every time you manipulate nature you're screwing something up and i'm on the drive here. You took me on the land and you said something about the bone marrow and how

it dissolves and describe that because it's unbelievable. Bone breaks down in the soil, buried bone breaks down at the rate at which the plants can consume the calcium from it. Right. So it's, it is, it is a one-to-one fix on timing of how,

how slowly that bone breaks down and how fast it can be absorbed by the things around it. Yeah. It's a miracle. A miracle. It's absolutely beautiful, and it's complete intelligent design. The harmony that the place is. We watched the recent Mufasa. I saw that, yeah.

I'll say this. As a movie critic, loved the story. I thought the music could have been better. The singing sucked. It was terrible. The songs were shit. And they weren't as bad as the movie Wish, but when you compare it to like Encanto, Coco, Frozen 1 and 2, you know, there's so many, even, you know, Beauty and the Beast.

There's so many movies that are just have music where you're like, these are classic songs. They're great. When my daughter wants us to play the soundtrack, I'm not like, oh, bravo. Like there's no point where, you know, but even in that. That was terrible. It was bad. That part of it. The beauty of the idea of the sacred hoop, you know, which is long been understood through

indigenous cultures, but the circle of life, right, which they show in The Lion King and in Mufasa, I think is such an important piece for us to understand our place. And that's really illustrated well in books like The Story of B and Ishmael, My Ishmael, you know, Daniel Quinn's work. And that's what really is, is, you know, one of our mentors, Daniel Firth Griffith, he's also an author and a beautiful dude been on the podcast. He's really, you know, that's been one of the biggest seeds in his mind along with Savory's work and creating what he's creating

as somebody who's, you know, even moving beyond the term regenerative agriculture guy. Like he's way beyond that. But yeah, I like to think with thoughts like that. And it's very, kids understand the circle of life. They understand everything is interconnected. You know, and if we can remember that truth, because it is a truth, right?

It's like natural law truth, as opposed to we're better than or different than. I think that can create a lot more harmony. And that colonization mindset is the opposite of that. And that's what we seem to be inheriting as we're born into this world, especially in the West. And this transhuman movement, we're being inherited into this idea that we need to upload consciousness and live forever. And it's like, no, death isn't incredible. Sanchi Redha is Don Howard's sister, and she's become an amazing friend of mine. She and I has gotten really close, and I've been to her workshops. And she does these death and dying circle of life type ceremonies. And it's all about

just learning how to understand your relationship with death. I've become a little bit interested and obsessed with this concept of the denial of death. Another, my favorite book by Ernest Becker is called The Denial of Death. It's so good. And it just talks about how our relationship to death is at the core, you know, and Sheldon Solomon and other people have studied this type of work. And it just talks about how our relationship to death is at the core, you know, and Sheldon Solomon and other people have studied this type of work. And they talk about how human beings, the reason we have all the best art and all the best music and all of the craziest elements, war, genocide, everything stems from this underlying thing that we know we're going to die. And it causes this neurotic, crazy, weird element that makes us human.

And until we can get this relationship right on the individual and collective level, we're always gonna be in these patterns. It's a very strange subject matter, but it's beautiful. That's awesome. And it makes me think too, and it's not to blame Christianity or any singular religion,

but if you follow YOLO, you only live once, that changes the whole game does if you understand you know and i laughed when kurt when i first heard about ray kurtzweil because i grew up right in the silicon valley it's like kurtzweil wants to you know upload the conscious all the all the beginnings of transhumanist as i as i came to understand it it's like you already are infinite you already are eternal yeah and what's crazy is and awesome is that you get a new body you get to shift you get to forget you get to learn things brand new like it's it's designed it's perfect perfectly yeah like so there's nothing to

to go beyond that would it be cool to to be able to live for a really long time and and store all the the memories and the knowledge that you would have acquired from from an even longer lifetime a thousand years yeah but it would fucking suck to be immortal yeah and not have the newness that we have right right like that that's that's a that's a curse it is an absolute curse yeah it would it would not be fun and um to your point on the transhumanist movement and even just World Economic Forum, all these ideologies that are pushing for a homogenized one world government, that is colonization of the entire planet. Yep. Right.

That's the ultimate colonization. That's the ultimate homogenization. That's the ultimate top down control centralized to the core. Yeah. You know, and that's something I resonate with Jack Cruz about is we got to decentralize everything. You know, his movement is decentralized medicine, but the better we get at decentralizing things, the more freedom we have. Right. And the better the, the, the spaces for growth. Yeah. Right. Because we have the ability for, you know,

things to actually work better. You think of the DMV, like if you privatize, there's problems with privatizing everything, but at the same time, when it's singularly controlled, that's where we run into real issues. When there's some back and forth in competition, we get to see the best emerge. Yeah. And nature's decentralized. Nature is diverse. And that's where evolution occurs. It's not in these centralized soil models you know that's actually the worst thing you can do for soil right or for the air or for anything it's all about decentralization and diversity and complexity yeah you know it's it's so silly to think that our egos could know how nature truly we're going to take hold of nature you know like we're going to take hold

of this horse and we're going to manage it like that. It's unbelievable. I think it's the opposite approach. Dominion. Yeah, dominion. Dominator. You know, it's like that's probably the opposite of what we should do. We should be humble in our approach. You know, if you're going to walk across a dark room, go slowly. I think Saad Gruber was talking about that.

He's like, if all the lights are off, you don't just run across the room if you don't know the room. He's like, walk timidly, humbly, carefully, you know? Explore gracefully. I'm like, yeah, we don't know what's going on. I like that. That's awesome. What do you have coming up? You do events and things like that out in Arizona?

Small groups, stuff like that? You've got your podcast. I want you to be able to talk about the stuff that you've got coming up. Anything that's cool that you can invite people to? Yeah, little things. I try to keep Breathwork nice and small. I don't try to go marketing it and grow it outside of what it is. Opportunities always come. And I'm like saying no now at this point, which is nice. But, um, I, every Sunday night, pretty much I do small groups. I cap it at about 28 people. It's donation based that way the guy can

ride the bus and pay three bucks. If that's all he's got. I don't, I don't like the idea of charging. I'm still in that mode and it supports me. And I also am grateful I don't need the money. But I love sharing breath work with people and I do private groups. But that's one of my favorite things to share with people because I get the non-yogis. I get the people that come that are just people, all walks of life, and they just want to feel good. And there's no culture, which I love too. I love that people come. They throw down they just want to feel good, you know, and there's no culture, which I love too. I love that people come, they throw down the mat, they feel safe and then they have an experience. And my experience is all about slowing down, letting go, getting people to just

learn how to slow down. I think that's the hardest thing in our culture to feel. And then you give permission for people to ease into this circular pattern of breathing, maybe at a very slow, almost like exposure therapy. So the way that I share breathwork has been, yeah, I've been to two of Stan Grof's workshops. I've met him, read all his books. I've been to the Dan Brule workshops. I've had these incredibly powerful breathwork experiences. And then I realized, well, these can destabilize people, or these can be too much or too woo for the average person to even feel not intimidated to go to. So I'm like, how do you bridge the gap and get the average person in the culture, the landscaper, the plumber, the average person to feel better

and to connect with the breath? And I sort of created a recipe. It's like a brownie recipe that's just really good. And that came from starting in the backyard with some friends. And I had worked with breath for maybe eight years before I shared it with people, but it just sort of grew organically in the backyard. And now it's to the point where like, Oh, I need to keep doing it because I don't have a place I can send people locally. And there's a recipe here that seems to be effective and the feedback's nice. And I get to see people go, Oh my God, you know, I didn't know you could do that with the breath. And then they start to build a relationship with it when they leave and talk about it. And they'll send me emails. My God, I had a traumatic event or someone die in the family. And I was able to

come back to that breath and, and use it. And it's like, so cool, man. And I, it seems so simple. It's like this free thing that I'm sharing with people that I never thought I would. So it's, it's actually a passion of mine to share the breath with people. And the podcast is just a hobby, but I'm loving that too. It's been a really fun hobby. Like I have Dan Millman coming on, and he's like a hero of mine. He wrote The Peaceful Warrior. Oh, that's right.

It's a fucking phenomenal book. Amazing guy. That's a great one. So just people like him that I'm like, dude, I get to basically have coffee with Dan Millman, some hero of mine that helped me to think about the nature of consciousness differently and then share it with people I love. So it's like such a gift to be able to have a platform like this because 50 years ago you couldn't do this.

Maybe Alan Watts on a sailboat. But now I'm like, dude, it doesn't have to be high tech. Just have these little basic headsets and and you can have these deep conversations, and then just see where they go. So, yeah, breath work, firefighting's coming to an end. I have a few years left, and we'll see where the thing takes me because I'm more focused now on the inner stuff. External planning, especially with the way things are going in 2029, 2030,

if we make it, it's going to get weird. And everyone might think that sounds strange, but you know. There's a lot of levers that are going to be pulled and played in the next few years. So external planning is not my orientation. It's like, all right, get the infinite game stuff really sorted out and pay attention. And I'll know exactly how to navigate as I pay attention. So yeah, from your center. Yeah. From the center. So yeah, I think I'm just working on enjoying life, be present, be grateful. I always tell people, try to just be open,

you know, be, be grateful and be open and, and on wonder and dude, everything else comes from that. So yeah. Beautiful brother. It's been awesome having you on the podcast and getting to show you the land. Thanks brother. It's always nice connecting with you. So I'm sure I'll know you over the years and we'll keep learning together. Fuck yeah, brother.

So fun. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for having me, brother. My pleasure. Yeah.