Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #398 Navigating Controversy & Truth w/ Dr. Robert Malone

Episode Date: March 23, 2025

In this episode, Dr. Robert Malone, highlights his scientific career, personal experiences, and controversial perspectives on COVID-19 and RNA technology. Dr. Malone has been a significant figure in the Freedom Movement, especially notable after appearing on the Joe Rogan Experience in 2021. He discusses his background, growing up in California, and how his upbringing in a tech and military-industrial complex environment influenced his career. Dr. Malone delves into his pioneering work in mRNA technology, the contentious patent disputes, and his journey through academia and biodefense sectors, which led to significant roles during pandemics like Zika and COVID-19. The conversation covers his interactions with CIA operatives, his contributions to early COVID-19 treatments, and his journey through intense public and media scrutiny after expressing dissenting views on COVID-19 vaccines. He explains the concept of fifth and sixth generation warfare and its implications. Dr. Malone also talks about his efforts in homesteading and community building as a form of resilience against modern socioeconomic pressures.   Connect with Dr. Malone here: X Website Substack Malone Media   Our Sponsors: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to Lucy.co/KKP and use promo code (KKP) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers FREE SHIPPING and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. With Happy Hippo, you're getting a product that's been sterilized of pathogens, tested for impurities and heavy metals, and sold with a guarantee. Go to happyhippo.com/kkp and use Code KKP for 15% off the entire store Organifi.com/kkp and grab a Sunrise to Sunset kit to be covered with Red, Green and Gold, with 20% off using code KKP Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to get your dream yard. Order online and get your plants delivered directly to your door in just a few days, without ever leaving home. Click here to order!   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: Kyle Kingbury Podcast Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!

I would bore you with a birthday song singing happy birthday to myself. Like my mother always does. It is my birthday today, March 22nd. Most importantly, bucket list guest, Dr. Robert Malone. That's why you've tuned into this podcast. I assume he's been somebody I've been following since 2021 when he went on the Joe Rogan experience and has really been at the forefront of the freedom movement

for people really pushing the truth and pushing back on all the censorship that's happened over the last four or five years and has been going on for a lot longer than that, but really getting to see the wheels of the machine and how they work. Few people have been as affected by this as Robert has. So it's really cool to get his story. Um, in his book, Scy War, you really get a deep dive into the mechanics of fifth generation warfare and how the censorship tactics have been used against him. But I love this podcast.

I really, I feel like I was able to draw a lot of who Robert is and his background into this podcast. And I really appreciated that. Not everybody that comes on when I give them the opportunity to go deep into their background takes it. So that was really rad of Robert to dive deep with me. And I got to learn a lot about him. Check out all of his stuff in the show notes. Follow him on Stub Stack.

Follow him on X. Become a subscriber if you really want good details and truth. He's going to be the guy that gives it to you. He's got a great hand on his shoulders. He's into homesteading and so many other things that we're doing as well. So I just loved my time with Robert. Thanks again.

Thank you again, Robert, for coming on the podcast. And without further ado, Dr. Robert Malone. Dr. Robert Malone, welcome to the podcast. Thanks a lot for having me on. I look forward to it. Yeah, this is great. We were just getting to chat a little bit before and I'm excited for today's show. I've been recently diving into Psywar. And of course, before that, Lies My Government told me were excellent, excellent books. Really found out, I think the whole world found out about you via Joe Rogan early on in the 2020, 2021 stuff. And so I wanna dive into that

and you're rolling the whole picture of as an expert and kind of what's happened since then. We'll talk fifth generation war. We might even dive into sixth generation war. So I'm very excited, but start us off. I want to know, where did you grow up? What was life like growing up? Did you know you wanted to be a doctor?

Tell me about what drew you as a kid into becoming the person you are today. I was born actually at the old Stanford Hospital in Palo Alto, the son of a teacher trained at a women's college in Marin, so Bay Area, and an electrical engineer who was being trained at Stanford, who was recently out of the US Navy where he'd been in naval intelligence stationed in Japan. So born in 59, and one of my earliest memories is the assassination of the president.

Grew up in a timeframe, I'm now 65, so I grew up in a timeframe in California that was very different from the California today. The California then was very much tech-driven and very much also, frankly, military industrial complex was a major factor there. And my dad was embedded in it. When he finished at Stanford, he went to work for Hillier Aircraft on basically Vietnam War helicopters. I remember the nuclear war drills of getting under your desk. There was a point in time when my family moved all up and down the West Coast, seems like we moved about every three years to follow my dad's work because this is all in the time

when the the industry was really very dynamic. Basically this is the military industrial complex in California which is a major component of the economy there. And that's what my dad worked in. My mom worked as a teacher. And we moved up and down the West Coast. So we lived in Thousand Oaks LA, Bay Area. And then after the Vietnam War, the industry collapsed.

My dad lost his job. It was kind of hard times. And he got a job up in the central coast of California in the Santa Barbara region in a little town called Goleta, which at the time was very much kind of a middle-class haven. Again, a lot of military industrial type operations there. Delco was there and they built the Moon Rover. My dad worked in high energy systems and was an inventor on some key tech involving the technology that's currently used to detonate

thermonuclear devices, exploding foil and exploding bridge water, and electromagnetic surge protection. And I met my high school sweetheart, who I married when she was barely 15. I was barely 16 there in Goleta. You know, we lived, my family lived on a house on a bluff across 101 from the beach. What was called Haskell's Beach, It's now a huge bloody resort. But back then, it was globs of oil on the beach and dead seals and kelp. And just down the road was Sandpiper Golf Course. If you've ever seen the Reagan movie with Dennis Quaid,

the last scenes where he's riding in the hills. So that's, that was about three miles as a crow flies from where I grew up. And my wife and I used to ride horses all up in those hills, which is kind of what gave rise to our passion for horses, which continues to this day. We breed a horse called the Lusitano, which is originally a Portuguese bullfighting horse, but now it's big in dressage internationally. So it's a rare breed, but we get a good price on it.

So that's in went to high school in a school that we really just took for granted. But in retrospect, it was kind of unique. And it has a lot to do with, you know, relates to how things have changed, not only in California, but throughout the country. I was in, I was tracked, gifted, and talented, which meant that because, you know,

my parents gave me an IQ test when I was like five or something and I pegged the needle and everything, then all the expectations that that's where the expectations, literally my mother expected me to get the Nobel Prize. Anything less was a failure and wanted me to be a doctor, which I rebelled against. Growing up the Central Coast of California, I don't want to go too deep into that, but it's a surfer. I was a rock climber. Spent a lot of time in Yosemite hanging out.

And we'll just say that the Central Coast lifestyle was central to my upbringing. So what we would now call kind of eco hippie in retrospect. And with my girl, it was Beach Boys on the radio, Wouldn't It Be Nice, and a 67 Chevy Stepside Pickup scooting up and down the coast to various rock climbing hangs and up in the hills, a lot of hiking, did the Muir Trail when I was 15. So that was 76. Started on Mount Whitney side and went all the way down to the valley with three other guys. So avid hiker, rock climber, you know, kind of guy.

But tracked in this way academically. But what was interesting about the high school was that back then you still had home ec and auto shop and metal shop and wood shop and all that with all the good tools. And I love working with my hands. And so in addition to doing all of the academic college track stuff, I took the shop classes, ran cross-country track, and then kind of didn't have to try too hard to get good grades. Turns out now, in retrospect, that's

considered one of the top high schools in the United States, largely because Galita was a kind of middle class engineer paradise. It was just full of the families that were, you know, there wasn't a bunch of rich folk. There was just a bunch of middle class people that were working on engineering and government jobs and that kind of stuff. My wife's dad, who turned out to be my mentor because my parents rejected me largely because of her, they didn't approve. But she was a Brit, first-generation immigrant

American. Her father was a genius and ran Raytheon special projects, which was also there in Goleta. For the uninitiated, that translates to Raytheon CIA skunkworks. And he did a lot of really interesting projects. But when my parents kind of rejected me, they were big Nixon supporters and staunch conservatives, Baptist. And I was, you know, hanging out rock climbing and doing all that stuff that wasn't kind of consistent with their point of view.

And having consensual relationships with a young lady who was under 18, which is now my wife of 46 years, Dr. Joe Glass pulled along, we kind of bootstrap. But her dad really took me under his wing because largely he loved his daughter and his daughter loved me. And we got along well. And he was really the one that helped us. He had an avocado farm.

So I literally was a ranch hand for years. I've planted a stupid number of avocado trees. I can put in your drip systems and engineer it and all that good stuff. Then I went off to, I went, when I first, so Jill, I dropped out of college at UC Davis after three quarters of a year before they kicked me out, frankly. And Jill managed to get her in her last months of school as a senior. She basically went to her teachers and said, I'm going to leave one way or another. You can let me take my exams early and graduate me or not. I really don't't care and so she got out of the last couple

of months of her senior year and graduated and because she's brilliant also she she just you know buzzed through stuff so then we went and lived up along the banks of the American River just below Lake Tahoe in an old hunting lodge that had actually been built by the Folgers company or Folgers family. It was kind of an amazing experience. And then when winter came along, we decided that, well, you know, it was pretty tough. I was working as a shorter to cook.

She was working as a waitress in a little roadside attraction in Kuybers, California, and the Kuybers Lodge. And so we decided that we probably ought to get back home for the winter where we could make a little more money and not be so cold. So moved back to Santa Barbara and I took a job. First I worked making wetsuits, sewing wetsuits for a company downtown. And then I got a job through some friends in construction and ended up working on what is really an architecturally famous house in Santa Barbara. It's called the Whale House.

It's very much influenced by Gaudi, the Spanish architect. And there's only one corner in the whole house and it's intentional just to make the point. It's a three-story rock column pulled out of the creek, great big boulders, sandstone boulders, surrounded by shingles. It's this free-flowing shingle style, amazing thing. And I became the chairman of the,

or I'm sorry, the foreman of the shingling crew. So that was kind of my launch into construction. So I worked literally as a ranch hand and as a carpenter for a while and then decided that I really wanted to make something myself, had a wife, and at that point. And so I went back to South River City College. I had kind of, we'll just leave it as saying an epiphany moment on New Year's Eve 1980, and don't ask further questions, but certain control substances were involved. And I decided that that next morning

that I wanted to change my life. And I did. And I went back to Santa Barbara City College, which at the time was one of the best city colleges. It's all gone woke now, but an amazing place, was a computer science student, graduated with top honors, straight A's, got special awards as a computer science student, etc., cetera. And then I was back on track and went back to UC Davis. And my mother was deathly afraid of breast cancer. And I was fascinated by this emerging new field

of molecular biology, which they didn't even have a major for at Davis at the time. This is 1982. And I signed up for a research internship as part of my financial aid package, so I'd get some money from that. And I went to work in a breast cancer research lab in the Department of Pathology of the medical school, where I just, it was like taking a duck to water. I just worked my butt off.

And also in school, I got good grades, biochemistry major, hardcore. Biochem at UC Davis is hardcore stuff. Not as bad as chem engineering, but right there. And so busted my can in the lab doing molecular biology on retroviruses that were associated with breast cancer in mice. And that's really where I got trained. My mentors, one of whom had just come from founding the Cancer Center at USC, and he was the department chair, and then my mentor Bob Cardiff was the second in command. He had been trained at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology,

and he'd just come from a fellowship sabbatical in the laboratory of Bishop and Varmus, who got the Nobel Prize for alka genes. So I was just immersed in it and busted my can, got an MD-PhD scholarship, and I was off. I got an MD-PhD scholarship, and I was off. And stupidly decided to go to Northwestern Chicago rather than waiting for possible acceptance at UC San Diego. Had an acceptance at USC, probably should have gone there. But wife and I froze our cans off in Chicago,

coming from Santa Barbara. And she was not a happy camper. And at that point, in about halfway through med school, we had a baby, a boy. And so finish the first two years, and then you do your research time, and decided to opt out and go transfer to UC San Diego and the Salk Institute for my research component, and then back to Northwestern to finish my MD, and really wanted to be a gene therapist, really wanted to be a pediatrician that would cure metabolic errors of children.

And so I went, I managed to get into the top gene therapy lab in perhaps the world at the time, the Laboratory of Endovera, and work in the molecular biology and virology labs at the Solak Institute, which had trained three prior Nobel Prize winners. And Inder's boss, David Baltimore, is one of the seminal figures in molecular biology, and he got the Nobel Prize for discovering reverse transcriptase with Howard Tammann. So I was just in the ivory tower at the Pinnacle. Francis Crick was there. And nice guy, by the way.

Jonas Salk was still there. Not such a nice guy. A little bitter. And that's the entree to the story of my passionate work to try to understand how RNA gets assembled into retroviruses, which led to the cascade of discoveries of how to manufacture large quantities of RNA that's highly purified, the sequences necessary in structure of an RNA in order to get a synthetic RNA in order to get it made into protein, and the methods in order to get it delivered into cells, including using positively charged fats, and the realization that gene therapy wasn't going to work because the patient's immune system doesn't know that it's a good gene, just that it's a different

gene and it rejects it immunologically, which was the insight that didn't make me very popular in the lab, the first one, but also that gave rise to the realization that I can use RNA as a drug, which is a radical new idea. And that if you're going to use RNA as a drug, synthetic RNA, instead of gene therapy, would be a transient gene therapy is the term I used, that the easiest indication, what the venture capitalists call the low-hanging fruit, was to use it to produce an immune response, ergo vaccines, because you didn't need much protein.

And it didn't work that well. It wasn't like you're going to cure cystic fibrosis with it. But it should be enough to generate an immune response. And that turned out to be true. So I filed a patent disclosure, and patents were filed at the Sulk Institute, and then all hell broke loose. People that I had worked with on the main campus at UC San Diego, they wanted their names on the patent.

My mentor who, you know, disregarded all this and poo-pooed it, not really paid attention. And the Salk determined that he wasn't a co-inventor, but then he insisted that he be a co-inventor. And the lawyers at the Salk said that I couldn't talk to the lawyers at UC San Diego. The lawyers at UC San Diego said I couldn't talk to the lawyers at the Salk said that I couldn't talk to the lawyers at UC San Diego, the lawyers at UC San Diego said I couldn't talk to the lawyers at Salk, and I got caught in the crossfire of big science and big money. And this is just after the Bayh-Dole Act had passed, which is the thing that creates this financial incentive for people to file patents that are academics. And so- Explain that for a minute here.

I think that's a really important piece here, the Bidol Act, because I didn't realize that this coincided right at the same time. When we talk about vaccines today, this piece, most people haven't even paid attention, but a lot of people that are listening to this podcast have at least heard that in passing, that this thing goes through and it changes liability. And in doing so, you wind up

and set up. No, no, that's different. You're thinking about the vaccines for children and the liability waiver. Yes. By Dole is something different. And by Dole is what is, people are all perplexed. How can academics have become so corrupt? And how come the industry is so infiltrated into academia and into NIH? And why do people have all these financial conflicts of interest that are clear and present? We can see them.

And this is another case of the best laid plans often go awry. So the logic behind the Bayh-Dole Act, Birch Bayh, and Bob Dole put this together. And it must have been about 82, as I recall. And all these events transpired in 84 that I'm talking about, 83 and 84. So the logic was that the government or the tax payers are funding all of these academic laboratories that are producing intellectual property that could be turned into products.

But it's basically at that point in time, it was considered a sin really for academics to work with industry. And there was a lot of kind of political disincentives to do that, and structural disincentives. You know, to work with industry was considered a lesser kind of dirty thing. And they wanted to change that dynamic because they thought that all this money they were pouring into these emerging new technology spaces of biotech ought to be coming back in the form of American industry and money back to the taxpayers

and blah, blah, blah. So they came up with this bill that passed that made it so that the structure, and by the way, it applies to NIH employees. That's why Tony Fauci gets all this patent revenue and the people that work for him, blah, blah, blah. And it's hundreds of thousands. Everybody that touched the invention of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine at the NIH Vaccine

Research Center, it's basically going to get a hundred thousand dollar check per year for the rest of their lives, consequent to the BiDolec. So you can figure out why all those guys are being pretty quiet and their names never come up. So the way it works is that in order to incentivize the patenting and commercial development of intellectual property created through government funding, the government passed a law saying that universities have to facilitate, that's

why they all have technology transfer offices now, universities have to facilitate the patenting and transfer of intellectual property to industry. And in order to do that, the law stipulated that some fraction of the patent revenue would go back to the inventors so that the inventors, or go the funded academics, had an incentive to file the intellectual property. Some of it goes to the university itself. The university has a financial interest in prosecuting the patents and getting them licensed. So these intellectual tech transfer offices

are all about getting the patents prosecuted and getting them licensed out into industry, and then generating the revenue that comes back to the university president, the dean, the department chair, the individual academic, and then whomever else is on the patent. So that's how that flows. And we're talking about big money.

And so what happened was that as this kind of trickled in, all of the usual kind of human competitive dynamics kicked in. And plus universities were like, ha, ka-ching, you know, and we've struck gold. What's not to like here? The Salk set up a Salk Institute biology associates, which was their for-profit subsidiary to their nonprofit Salk Institute Foundation where they would this is part of why this shit hit the fan with me is Because I was collaborating with Syntex in all of this Palo Alto based pharmacology company that made their millions off of birth

control, by the way. And the top gun at the Salk didn't know about this. De Hoffman was his name. He'd worked on the Manhattan Project. And so he got pissed off that all this had happened without his knowledge. And suddenly he was faced with a situation where he had, to his frame of reference, an intellectual property leak and a potential financial leak off to Syntex because they were going to have to partner with Syntex for the licensing and the revenue, which he wanted all to himself to the Salk Institute.

And my professor, when he got confronted with this basically threw me into the bus said I don't know what this guy was doing he was just you know I had nothing to do with this which is all a lie and that was kind of my first hello you're not in Kansas anymore moment on this train wreck that eventually led to my having us a breakdown. on this train wreck that eventually led to my having a breakdown. So that kind of sets the stage. And then I ended up taking a master's because I just couldn't cope anymore.

I passed my qualifying exams and proposed very advanced ideas about RNA that have pretty much come to pass, but were pretty heretical at the time. And I left, but my wife was still finishing her bachelor's degree at UC San Diego, so I had to stick around. I couldn't go straight back to med school, and so I had to get a job. And I took a job with a guy I'd been collaborating with at Syntex that had just bailed out of Syntex because he was pissed off and joined a company called Vycal, which is literally right across the street from the Salk. And so he said, why don't you come over here and we'll set

up a skunkworks for you. Vycal is actually supposed to be antivirals and calcitonin analogs working on AIDS and other things. But we'll give you a budget and you can carry on your graduate work. So I got a big budget. It was about $20,000 plus my salary as a senior technician, which is about $16,000 a year, and brought over all my protocols, my reagents, my recombinant DNA, blah, blah, blah. And just, you know, took it from the salt, plugged it into Vical and started going, ordered the equipment that I needed. And within a couple of months, we had a series of more discoveries that led to a major science paper and led to this cascade of invention disclosures that are the patents

behind me, among others, and the reduction to practice, which is patent talk for We Made It Work, of mRNA vaccines in a mouse model using AIDS antigens and influenza. So we actually did show that it would work. And then I left to finish my medical school and nobody there knew how to make the RNA and the whole thing stalled and they sold off all the intellectual property rights to Merck and ended up between Merck and Vical

in the end investing well north of a billion dollars and could never get a product out of it. And then the patents expired and DARPA dropped a ton of money into RNA vaccine tech and the rest is history. That's what launched BioNTech and Moderna, et cetera. And that's the reason why there's this big delay between what I did in 1988 through 1991, and then went back and finished my medical school. And Kuriko and Weissman kicked in about a decade later. They're the ones that got the Nobel Prize. And then a few, when all they did was came up

with using pseudo-uridine in the RNA. They used all the same stuff, same structures. They didn't actually even talk about RNA vaccines as an indication in their patents. You know, then I, when I went back to UC Davis after I finished my MD, I wrote some grants and including a big AIDS grant, got funded as an intern for about $1.2

million. And then my still mentors said, I basically went back for security. I was a mental train wreck at that point, and I'm looking for safe harbor. So they took me in and I was so successful. The ideas were now finally being accepted. And so this is years after, this is early 90s. And so the grants and contracts came in and I was, you know, about to have a second boy with Jill and operating on fumes having to pay off medical school debt on an intern salary of 22,000 a year. And so they said, well, you can continue on with

your residency or you can just become a faculty member since you got all these grants anyhow. So I immediately became an assistant professor and set up a gene therapy lab, gene therapy and vaccine tech, and had a number of other discoveries. Then a guy named Jim Wilson came and talked to the new dean. Jim was from UPenn. He's got some other interesting stories. He was a big advocate for use of adenovirus for gene therapy. And he told my dean that there was no future in non-viral gene therapy, and I was just screwing off. And he shouldn't support me. He should, if he was going to do anything in gene therapy, and I was just screwing off. And he shouldn't support me.

If he was going to do anything in gene therapy, he should get an adenoviral vector guy. And so they kind of suddenly, the well dried up and the support at UC Davis, I got recruited to Maryland, which brought me out to the East Coast. And that kind of starts another chapter. So there's a quick, you wanted to know, yes, I was originally a farmhand and a carpenter

and bootstrapped up to become a physician and a scientist, and have had a lot of interesting experiences along the way. But I have stuck with my wife. The boys are homeschooled, both computer scientists. They wanted nothing to do with academia or medicine. For some reason, I can't understand. They're both married and have their own homes.

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Fastgrowingtrees, now that's the perfect time to plant, use KKP to save the day. Offer's that's the perfect time to plant. Use KKP to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Turns and conditions may apply. Yeah, Jill and I are still into horses. We raised the Lusitano's. We've got about 16 on the farm right now, but that's a bunch of babies and, you know, middle age,

you know, horses were growing up to sell and a few stallions and a bunch of mares. And very cool. We live, you know, and you were mentioning regenerative farming in the precession. So we bought, you know, another wrinkle in time. We basically lost everything with the Great Recession. We had bought a farm in North Georgia because I had been recruited down there to run a $300 million influenza vaccine contract for BARDA. So we'd moved our farm down there, sold our farm up here, and it was by Frederick, and

lost our shirts with the real estate collapse. And basically had to walk away. Deed and Lou had nothing and couldn't get a loan, God forbid, because we were blacklisted because we had done a deed and Lou. So we rented. We moved back up here because I was shuttling back and forth to DC to do consulting. And so we moved up here to Virginia

and rented at least two different places, horse farms. And then they were kind of run down, and we brought them back. And then Jill found our current property, which was just raw hayfield. In this beautiful little area, I'm still amazed she found it. You can't buy property in this county for a lot of money right now, it's just tight. Everybody up in Northern Virginia and DC wants to get out of town, especially during COVID, and they want to come here. But back then, we bought it directly from the owner.

Got a 5% from her. We paid it off. And we literally homesteaded it. It was raw hayfield, no fences, no water, no septic, no electric, no house, three runddown structures that most people didn't even know was there because they were so covered over with vines. And now seven years later, we lived in an office trailer, 400 square foot office trailer, which was illegal.

First thing we did is get a well drilled, but until that was in, it was bottled water. Used a sun shower, or went to the local health club to get a shower once a week. Relyed on a porta potty and made it work. Because we'd grown up hiking and backpacking and stuff, so living rough was not our first rodeo. And so we did it. Now we have three houses, three barns, this recording studio, which is an old pig barn. And we're about to put arena and put all, I think I've got three different power points, electrical services on the farm that I've put in, done a lot of the electrical work myself. And the well, got the water all distributed all over. So everybody's got a faucet. You know, spent a lot of time behind a chainsaw and a tractor. And, and, and we have chickens

and ducks and, and guinea fowl and, and an emu. And stupid number of emus also. I love it. Yeah, we got one of those white ones. We got one of those white ones. And he's a male, fortunately, that we hatched out. And three Aussies that are by our own breeding. And, you know, I think important concept, we all each make our own heaven or hell on this earth, in my opinion.

And Jill and I have kind of created our own little heaven, but it's very much galt sculch. We're not completely off the grid, but one of the houses has a wood burning stove that she cooks on. But we also have split units for most things, or heat pumps. And we're living the dream, but we've had to bootstrap it. Yeah, I love that. That's a, I couldn't agree more with, with making your own heaven or hell. For people who didn't hear you on Rogan's

and are just now getting into this, I mentioned a couple of the books that you've written that are absolutely fantastic must reads. Walk us through the COVID scenario. You've given us a detailed background on who you were heading into all this. Yeah, so- want to make it or as long as you want to make it. At one point, so the, I could not sustain funding at University of Maryland and I was on soft money. So soft money as an assistant or associate professor is a bizarre thing

because you're basically a small businessman, but the dean taxes you big time. And it's not a happy place to be. And there was a downturning in NIH funding. And bottom line is I ended up doing a startup that collapsed when the planes hit the towers and the Norwegian investors pulled. And then I took a job with a little startup company, not so little up in Frederick, Maryland called Dying Port Vaccine Company. And it just landed what I'm going to talk government is now. They'd landed the prime systems contract for all army military biodefense vaccines and

related products, biologic products. And I was the associate clinical director for that. So that's when I really got into the whole biodefense world. And you can't be in the biodefense world and not have touch points with the CIA. They are everywhere. You know, Bobby, whether or not he knows that it's surrounded by CIA people. Associate clinical director.

And I've tried to alert to the extent that I can. But it's just the way it is. And I'm Associate clinical director. So one of those characters that I got introduced to you to and that I'd done some work with, particularly on Zika, was a guy named Michael Callahan. So as the Associate Clinical Director of Dynport Vaccine

Company, I really learned everything a lot about the whole history and infrastructure of Fort Detrick. At one point, I was interviewed to become the scientific head of Fort Detrick after the anthrax attacks. And also began to develop touch points with CIA people. You can't be in the biodefense space without, or really, HHS. As I mentioned, Bobby is surrounded by CIA people, whether or not he knows it.

And I try to help people within that camp to understand what that is and where those are. I think they're everywhere in this space. And one of the people that I was brought into contact with was a character named Michael Callahan, worked closely with him during Zika, did some good work with Zika with drug repurposing in collaboration with Fort Detrick.

High throughput screening, very high tech stuff, chemical libraries. And so Callahan, who had advised I think three prior presidents, been in the White House many times, was one of the, you know, he works, his appointment is at Harvard in intensive care, and he is CIA officer. He's now retired. So these MDs are in the system. Just because somebody's got an MD doesn't mean they're not CIA.

I mean, it creates a very strange world where, and by the way, all these guys, I once had a business partner who's a retired CIA guy. And he got pissed because I actually named him in Bobby's book, The Real Anthony Fauci, which I edited highly twice for Bobby. But he introduced me to Callahan. And Callahan is an interesting character.

He's a genius. He's definitely on the spectrum. And he has historically been one of the kingpins operationally in the American biodefense enterprise. He almost literally parachuted into Africa multiple times for Ebola outbreaks. He was the guy that was heading up the clinical trials, testing remdesivir for Ebola.

Interesting guy. But he called me from, I'm not sure if he was on the way to Wuhan, or he was already there. There's an article about all of this in National Geographic, in National Geographic, but written by a buddy of his. I don't know if that guy's CIA or not, but he always writes about Michael Callahan. So Callahan called me on January 4th of 2020, saying, Robert, there is a novel coronavirus that looks like it's going to be a threat. And you need to get a team pulled together to respond to this. And then on January 10th, as I recall, it was the 11th, the Wuhan, or somebody within

China uploaded the sequence for the virus. It was since deleted. I grabbed the sequence and started doing molecular modeling and focusing. As I always do, I did a threat assessment and determined that there was no way, because the history of coronavirus vaccine development, particularly for the Cervico viruses like SARS, had just been a series of failures. And I thought there was no way in hell that anybody was going to be able to put together

a safe and effective vaccine for SARS-CoV-2. It wasn't called that then for this novel coronavirus in any kind of a timely fashion. And the only thing that would save lives was going to be drug repurposing. So that's what I focused on. I pulled together a high-end team. We had a series of key discoveries, a major paper on the use of famodidine. You may recall the antacid drug, and there was a run on that.

And that was all our work for drug repurposing, and eventually settled in on a combination of famotidine, celicoxib, and ivermectin, which I got funded through the DOD and clinical trials, and that's a whole other story. So I was basically just jamming it on drug repurposing and early treatment. A few people know about that part of the story. I had a chat with Callahan very early, I think February or March of 2020, in which I confronted him that it sure looked

like this virus was engineered. And his response to me was that, no, his people had been all over the sequence, and there was absolutely no evidence that it was engineered. Of course, that was a lie. And we now know that this came out of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, and the data on that are becoming overwhelming. But clearly, Callahan was kind of in the know with the CIA position to deny culpability in terms

of the engineered virus, which by the way, the engineering was not just funded by Fauci's NIAID, but a lot of it came also from USAID, of course, and in particular from Defense Threat Reduction Agency, the group that I was specifically working with, but a different division of DITRA. I was working with the ChemBio Defense Group, and the people that funded the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the Threat Mitigation Branch.

And those two didn't have good sockets. It's all siloed. But I eventually found that out because I was mentoring this GS-14 upon request and warned him that I thought that shit was gonna hit the fan and he better not have any fingerprints on that activity and he said I don't know anything about that it's not in my wheelhouse but I'll find out about it so he he was the one that smoked out that basically he asking buddies, other government workers in parallel groups. And he reported back to me that, yeah, in fact, DITRA had funded it, but it was the threat mitigation branch, not

the chem bio branch. So my counseling was, well, avoid that like the plague. Don't get your fingers on that. And that's interesting. And I actually reported that. That was the first report that it was DITRA and the specific Kim Bio branch. You know, at that point I was starting to, I'd done the Brett Weinstein podcast. I was starting to, people were coming to me to try to, there's a particular woman, she goes by the name Monica of Dr. Meeks, Dr. Eeks. She had a link with trial site news, and she had me do a podcast asking me to explain original antigenic sin and immune imprinting

and the possibility that these vaccines would be immunoehansing, immunologic enhancing, which is one of the things the FDA was very worried about. And then the Bret Weinstein Dark Horse podcast with Steve Kirsch was the one that really busted things open. That was a couple months before Rogan. And so I started getting asked more and more basically because there was nobody explaining to the public what this mRNA vaccine stuff was.

People became aware that, in fact, I knew quite a bit about it and I wasn't part of the in-crowd, then they would come to me for explanations. And my wife once said, they should be paying you. Fauci should be paying you because you're going on hour after hour and hour of podcasts just teaching people what's going on. But then the data started rolling out about the adverse events. I took the jab when the National Guard was deploying it here in my little county. I took Moderna and at the time there was very little known about the adverse events. It was really suppressed. And dose number two turned out to be one of the bad batches. And I had all kinds of complications, POTS syndrome,

blood pressure problems, restless leg, tinnitus, a lot of what are now the classic milder complex of symptoms. But I probably also had pericarditis or myocarditis, but subclinically. But I had to take it if I was to travel, and I was being asked to travel at that point. So that plus I had long COVID from my original infection that I got in Boston at the end of February.

So I got Wuhan 1, which is basically how I confirmed famodidine's effectiveness as I started self-treating with the things we discovered through high-throughput screening. And famodidine was the only thing that really seemed to kick it for me. So then I was part of a group that was of physicians who were really actively discussing early treatment.

I had set up a new journal special edition for early treatment and drug repurposing and solicited Pierre Coury to write a article about ivermectin. That set off a cascade. We got it. I went through rigorous peer review. I was the editor on it. Had six different reviewers. They were hard. They really forced him to fix it. And then it got accepted. He paid the fee. The abstract got posted on Frontiers and Firmicology. It had more views than anything they'd ever had before. And then another shitstorm broke. The editor called me up, said that he'd had a call.

They had to pull the article, never disclosed who called him. And they came up with all kinds of excuses. And then they started reviewing all the other early treatment papers and rejecting those again even though we had them through peer review. And that together with, so that was an early example of the journal bias that happened. And another one was the book that Jill and I wrote in February and March of 2020 on how to prepare and protect yourself from the novel coronavirus, and we self-published on Amazon. And in late March, Amazon took it down because it violated community standards.

A book written by an MD, MS, and a PhD, highly referenced, and they couldn't tell us what community standards we'd violated. I guarantee there was no porn. But we've now come to expect that. And so we've kind of experienced the whole course of the censorship industrial complex as it's been deployed against all of us for COVID. And then strangely, about two days before the Rogan hit, I was permanently banned on LinkedIn and Twitter. Exactly the same time, what a coincidence. And then McCullough had been on Rogan but had kind of screwed some things up and had

been very academic, you know, with his computer and looking at the references. It really didn't hit. And I had some media guys that I was working with that advised me to just go in there, be yourself, be in the moment, just focus on Joe, talk to Joe, answer his questions, and have a good time. So I kind of let my hair down and just talked about the things that I'd been observing that other physicians around me had been observing. And I guess before that I'd been on Tucker

Carlson. I kind of blew his mind when I talked about the problems with the databases. I'd never heard that before. But I knew all about that because I'd been having weekly Zooms with three high-powered folk at the FDA. They were outside of the review branch. So Rogan. And then, you know, I said all these things. I talked about peteous decimid and mass formation psychosis and talked about that they were miscategorizing COVID deaths that basically if you came in with a gunshot wound to the head but they could get a nasal swab and a PCR, they would get paid extra and they would

count you as a COVID death when in fact it was a gunshot wound death. And that the numbers were biased and a set of number of things. Talked about the adverse events associated with the vaccines, which was heresy at the time. I'd personally used ivermectin. That had really been key to recovering from my long COVID. Talked about that.

And the thing went viral. I was told at one point it was the biggest podcast he'd had up until that point. It just went global. And then the shit really hit the fan. The whole coordinated attacks, Atlantic Monthly, Washington Post, New York Times, Rolling Stone, Business Insider. The whole usual cast of characters just came down on me like a ton of bricks, calling me a liar and misinformation

spreader. The Wikipedia manipulation had started way earlier. They'd basically written out of my own inventions and slandered me. And then I also started getting attacks from people that you would think would have been friendlies. That was kind of the thing that was most shocking. And Bobby asked me to edit his book on real Anthony Fauci. And then after two rounds of that, his publisher asked me to write a book. That was Lies My Government Told me in the Better Future coming. And kind of another one of the big advances, Steve Kirsch had said, hey, there's this thing

Substack. You really ought to get in Substack. I just got on Substack and I made 20,000 bucks last month. I can't believe it. You really need to get up because we didn't have any revenue at this time. We had destroyed our consulting company by coming out. The people in DOD that I've been working with didn't want anything revenue at this time. We had destroyed our consulting company by coming out. The people in DOD that I'd been working with didn't want anything to do with me.

I'd been on the active NIH study section group as an observer on behalf of the DOD, and NIH didn't want anything to do with me because of what I was saying. And so I really got kind of blackballed and I needed money. There's a couple of guys that had made donations to keep me going. So I got on Substack and when I got deplatformed off of Twitter, my Substack account just launched. Boom. And suddenly, everything changed. And then we used Substack to serialize the chapters of the book, because you don't make hardly

anything on books these days. But it was an important milestone to get it out. And then started writing about, starting trying to make sense of what I was experiencing with all the censorship, and the attacks, and the propaganda, and the other physicians around me. I thought that was a much bigger issue, that kind of freedom of speech and freedom in general

was a bigger issue than medical freedom or the lies and the bullshit going on with COVID. And so we kind of pivoted towards that. And I was doing investigations, trying to make sense out of things. And I ran into this literature, this military literature on fifth generation warfare. And I'd already given some lectures on Matthias Desmond's kind of psychological basis of what was going on that people really got a lot out of.

It seemed to really help people to make sense out of what they were seeing in society. And then I ran into the fifth-gen warfare literature, and I was just like, oh my god, this is to another level. And so I decided to speak about that at a big conference in Stockholm, international conference. And the audience was blown away. I showed some video clips, like this infamous one from the Cywar Group down in Fort Bragg, this recruiting video that has had a lot of circulation, Ghost

in the Machine, and some other stuff, a video that Mickey Willis had put together about bad jacketing, which is this... Mickey's a good buddy. ...troll population. Yeah, Mickey's a buddy. Yeah, I recorded... Hey, yeah. That was another tangent. I worked with Mickey. He's a good buddy. Yeah, Mickey's a buddy. Yeah, I recorded. Yeah, that was another tangent. I worked with Mickey. He's a friend. At one point, we did a spoof video because people were saying

I looked like the world's most interesting man from the beer commercials. And we decided to riff off of that. And Mickey had me come down to Austin, and my wife came with me and we recorded. He got these two beautiful young women to participate in the video. And so it's got me sitting down, and he created a bar scene kind of, and had smoke and all the atmospherics, pulled out all his tricks.

And these two young women sitting on either side of me and got a bunch of cheap wine from Trader Joe's and put it in a cabinet behind. And so we sat down and JP Sears had written the script, the comedian. The script was- Yeah, he's a good friend. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So JP Sears wrote the script, big script. My one line, which I blew about four times, I was so nervous, which was, I don't always

ruin things, but when I do, I prefer the great reset, because everybody was talking about the great reset at the time. We did this hit and it was stunning. Mickey just nailed it and he got some clips from some of those videos beforehand, diving off of clips and ice fishing and that whole thing that they used to do to sell Corona beer. And I had the beard, so it was enough, you know, and so it was a fantastic little thing. And he used it to promo Plendemic 2,

which I had interviewed for, et cetera. And then the shit hit the fan. Judy Mikovits was kind of the lead. A bunch of people started attacking me because I was conserting with young women, unfaithful to my wife, and selling alcohol. And that was kind of one of those other pivotal moments where, you know, it was again, you're not in Kansas anymore.

The whole dynamics of purity spirals and kind of competitive jealousy and what goes on in the internet. So all this came together in the investigations about fifth-gen warfare and the investigations about psychological warfare in general and the investigations about psychological warfare in general, and the propaganda. And then, of course, we had the Twitter files drop, and Taibii and Schellenberger making sense out of that. And then these advanced topics like psychological bioterrorism and the Silicon Valley business model of surveillance capitalism and the drops that came out of the Committee on the Weaponization of Government where they documented. Here's a fun fact. Remember all the hullabaloo that Neil Young was pissed off

because of the Joe Rogan hit. And he was gonna withdraw from Spotify. He was gonna take all his content off of Spotify. Well, at that point, he already sold his content and it was owned by some company that had ties to BlackRock or whatever the hell. But, you know, so it was all Kabuki theater. And then Joni Mitchell, that's what,

and then they came out with this hit on Rogan. You remember the N-word, I'll just put it that way, that whole campaign. And so Rogan was just getting hit hard. Unbeknownst to any of us, but revealed by the committee on the Weaponization of Government. What had really happened was that Coca-Cola

had put pressure through the GARM agreement on Spotify, the Global Alliance for Responsible Media, which was set up by the WEF, that controls a lot of the advertising revenue. So Coca-Cola basically objected to what I had to say on Rogan and put pressure on Spotify that Spotify would lose its advertising revenue, not just from Coke, but from everybody that was affiliated with Garm, which is basically all the big boys. And if Spotify didn't do something about Rogan.

And so then Rogan, you know, basically rolled over and agreed to the little banner ads about the CDC and all that stuff. I was a little disappointed in that, frankly. Yeah. All right, guys, quick break to tell you about happyhippo.com slash KKP. With happy hippo, you're getting a product that's been sterilized to pathogens tested for impurities and heavy metals and sold with a guarantee.

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Yeah. It was an interesting time. And there was an infiltrator that actually had worked for Peter McCullough for a while that was a chaos agent that messed up the American trucker protest in part. There's a number of infiltrators that disrupted the American trucker movement. But this person actively tried to get the, I don't know, that neo-Nazi group, Proud Boys, tried to get the Proud Boys to come to the rally and bring their guns.

And failed to do so, but still the New York Times reported that the Proud Boys were there, or at CNN, I forget which one it was, you know, showing that it was all coordinated. It was an interesting time, but that was the one where Bobby spoke, and he talked about how what was going on was totalitarian and had analogies to Nazi Germany. And the press totally roasted him for that and said that he was calling people Nazis and you know, it's just That was that was the one where the Washington Post said that I was a liar because I said the vaccines Weren't working. They weren't preventing infection and death So that was that was against the narrative and couldn't be said That was against the narrative and couldn't be said. Yeah, it's been, to quote The Grateful Dead, what a long, strange trip it has been.

For sure, it's the best quote I can think of. It kind of covers it. And then The Lies My Government Told Me was a pretty successful book. I probably should have pushed it more in the promos. It would have sold more, but it sold okay, pretty good. You went on Aubrey Marcus's podcast around then, right? I think he went on his podcast.

Yeah, Aubrey's podcast was a good one. That was a funny one in that he had leased some empty flat up in Miami in a tower. So it gave it that kind of stark, brutalist architecture kind of feeling to it. And he was the one that originally had interviewed Matthias Desmond. He used the term mass formation psychosis for that interview, which is where I picked

up mass formation psychosis. And then I got hammered for using the term psychosis. And even Matthias backed down and said, no, you should just say mass formation. Now he says mass formation psychosis because that's kind of what everybody says. And the pot boiled over. This is Bregan, that we were facilitating the global predators by using the term psychosis. And the press roasted at me and everybody lied

because it wasn't in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association as a psychosis. Of course, the DSM only talks about individual psychosis. It doesn't talk about group psychosis and group psychology. So it wouldn't have been in there anyhow. And famously, there's a guy that gave interviews to the British press about this. I mean, it went big. Interviews in the British

press about mass formation and said that this was totally made up, we were fraudulent, there was no literature. Of course, there's tons of literature. It goes back to Sigmund Freud, it goes back to bloody Plato and the Allegory of the Cave. And more proximally, Hannah Arendt, one of the great philosophers of the 20th century, former concentration camp survivor, had written basically about this also. And Matthias had just updated it for the 21st century, but it was heresy to talk about this.

And now we know that actively, USAID and all these players, MI6, were actively manipulating the psychology of their citizens. We're deploying CyWAR technology on their people. Somebody quipped the other day on X, USAID funded the virus, and then they USAID funded the virus and then they PsyOpt the entire population to go along with all these stupid measures like masking and social distancing and lockdowns that were so counterproductive and basically hypnotized and psyched everybody out. But yeah, Aubrey, I really enjoyed that interview with him. We kind of let our hair down, like you and I are here a little bit,

only it was in person. That was a good hit. I was excited. I was in his, we were good friends and worked together for a long time, last seven years. And, you know, I don't know anybody other than somebody like who was, you know, in your shoes and your background, able to call bullshit as fast, you know, I don't know anybody other than somebody like who was, you know, in your shoes, in your background, able to call bullshit as fast, you know, but as we were picking this stuff up,

I was like, hey, man, read this book. I handed him the real Anthony Fauci, you know, and JP is a good friend. He was one of the first to really start speaking out. And it was kind of like, is the dude going to get deplatformed? What's going to happen? You know, is he going to lose all his sponsors? And what was really cool is that as JP did that, he said, yeah, I lost a lot of people. But as it turns out, there's a whole lot more that want to know the truth. And so he grew from that. And that made it a little easier for me and Ob to get skin in the game. So I was really pumped when he had you on and Matthias Desmet. And, and those conversations I think were huge as early on as they were, even though they were possibly too late, you know, they really affect a lot.

I think they're really important. I can tell you, so I just get back from Rome, and it wasn't a vacation. I've been to Rome six times in the last four years, Rome or Italy, and most of it's working. And this was speaking at a rally for the kickoff for their national petition to stop the childhood vaccine mandates. But cutting to the chase, a lot of things happened once there. We talked to some whistleblowers. By the way, this whole question about the puppet masters, it looks like it's not above the level of Klaus Schwab.

It looks like a lot of that, based on the whistleblowers I was talking to in Italy, a lot of that happened kind of at the level of Tony Fauci. Fauci was central to it. That's not a lot of people said no Fauci is just a bit player. No, actually he was not. In a lot of the public health infrastructure in Italy basically operates as agents of the WHO. And it's looking from from what I heard,

that it was this longstanding collusion, collaboration between the vaccine and public health community in Italy, the WHO and the Chinese Communist Party, and Fauci, and the infrastructure he represented. It was happening more at that level. And then the big boys were kind of building on it and what he, the infrastructure he represented. It was happening more at that level, and then the big boys were kind of building on it and exploiting it.

That's, I think that might be the story in the end, from what I heard. We traveled half a million miles the last two years at least, each year. Travel a lot. Japan, all over Europe, Mexico, and the United States. And you were talking about maybe those podcasts were too late. Well, everywhere I go, I have people come up to me,

want to hug me. you saved me, you saved my family, I didn't take the jab because of what you said. And the one that's really the most touching is that I hear again and again, I thought I was going crazy and then I heard, and I knew I wasn't alone. That's an important one. And that one often comes from medical care providers, physicians, nurses, et cetera. So I don't think it was too late.

It could have been earlier, and there's some people that claim that they saw through it right away God bless them but We we did good work and You know, I've been Once count in ten different ways I was accused of being a mass murderer Mass murder because I invented the tech. I had nothing new with these vaccines.

But mass murder for that. Mass murder, this was the accusation leveled at me by a physician from Maui against my medical board that I was a mass murder because I had caused people to not take the jab. because I had caused people to not take the jab. Thank God I had a solid marriage, and a partner that supported me and loved me and stood by me.

Because I will not frame myself as a victim, but I just refuse, that's what their side does, right? But there's been moments where it's not been very fun. But I like to say I came out of it still owning my soul. The other day I was on with a very, very big podcaster that I'm not going to out, very influential, almost Rogan Lowell, who has maintained his ability to broadcast and be monetized on YouTube by avoiding talking about the jab and the treatment and things like that.

Talked about a lot of other things, but studiously avoided those things and rationalizes it as if I had talked about those things, they would have deplatformed me and I wouldn't have been able to do the good that I've done on these other topics. And I certainly can understand that point of view. But I took a different path. I just kind of said, here it is.

Here I am. This is how I see it. This is what I see. And somehow in that, to my amazement, continuing amazement, people found comfort. And they seem to have found some sort of genuineness that they react to. And I don't know if it's the voice and not getting too worked up. I mean, there's some people that just get hyperbolic, you know, various people come

to mind. Alex Jones seems like a pro wrestler. Alex Jones! Alex Jones is a special case. He is a special case. Okay. And of course, Steve Bannon has become a friend. But I'm talking about the physicians and scientists and others that have made outrageous claims.

And that's part of what we cover in the book is things like purity spirals, which is kind of the Medical Freedom's version of virtue signaling. And a lot of those, the dynamics of you get a little bit of attention in your podcast or whatever by saying something outrageous. And then you've got to keep the momentum. So you want to say something even more outrageous and then more outrageous. And then that's what people don't appreciate is that can be exploited. Okay. What people don't appreciate is that can be exploited. As soon as you fall into that, as soon as you kind of lose your bearings in that way,

then the opponents, the troll armies and bots and the people behind them can exploit that. And one of the ways they exploit it, and they're doing it right now in real time, you can watch it happen. I'm pretty sure Candace Owens has just burned herself, probably irreparably, because of this. You're following, you're looking at your followers, you're looking at how many likes and clicks and whatever you get, because that's your metric, because that gets monetized. And so you become very susceptible to the deployment of bots and trolls that seem to be encouraging you

to become more extreme. And when you say, notably, the whole anti-Zionist, anti-Israel thrust vector has been able to be exploited by bot armies, driving podcasters and commentators to become more extreme about Israel because they seem to get a positive feedback From their followers, but a lot of those followers are bullshit, right? They're just frauds But they're encouraging the broadcaster to become more extreme and Then as as they drive that podcaster towards more extreme positions, then the podcaster basically delegitimizes themselves and loses their audience and becomes irrelevant.

It's a great way. It's another example of cywar. And there are so many, you know, the narrative, the bad-jacketing narrative is extremely effective. Your controlled opposition. I like to use the metaphor, you know, the accusation of controlled opposition is kind of akin to the famous question, have you stopped beating your wife? There is no right answer to have you stopped beating your wife. Anything you say, you lose. And the same is true with the accusation of controlled opposition, which, by the way, answer to have you stop beating your wife. Anything you say, you lose. And the same is true with the accusation

of controlled opposition, which, by the way, was first introduced into the national dialogue by the FBI in the 60s as a deployment to undermine the Native American revolt that was going on at the time. Just like the narrative of conspiracy theory. We talk about that in the book. The origin of the narrative of you are a conspiracy theorist, you're promoting conspiracy theories,

it was a CIA operation mockingbird strategy to delegitimize those that were questioning the official narrative about the assassination of the president. Traces back that what we're encountering with these splinter tactics and the false flags and all that is a set of fundamental technologies that exploit human weaknesses that have been developed over centuries. You can go back and read Art of War. It's full of this stuff, you know, Sun Tzu. But they've been updated again and again and again. Of course, Goebbels notoriously, but then with supporting Hitler and the German war machine. But then in the 60s against the protest movements, and then periodically since, but now they've got this new tech called the internet and social media.

And that has allowed this suite of methods for psychological manipulation to just go into hyperdrive. And it's all been funded, people still don't understand. Through USAID, if you're following the bouncing ball and reading Mike Benz, et cetera, about USAID, then suddenly this is no longer tin foil hat crazy land, right? Suddenly we're all like, oh, now I get it. This has been going on in a serious hardcore way for a long time.

And the suite of tech has been developed and deployed as an instrument of State Department policy with military and intelligence components to it. And as Ben's notoriously said, if it's too dirty for the CIA, they give it to USAID. And we have been, we are, you know, we, United States in defending our empire, have been actively engaged in regime change my entire life. Violent regime change through assassination to nonviolent, non-kinetic regime change in Arab Spring using Twitter. Twitter is a weapon, guys.

Wake up. That's how it was built. Now, it's a little different now under Elon Musk, but that was the original build, just like Facebook was originally a spin out of basically CIA funding, as was Google. Guys, wake up. Google was created by the CIA. OK, it's not that the it is a really short timeline

between founders of Google as students at Stanford getting a big grant from the CIA to suddenly out of the blue being given the licensing rights to Google Maps by the CIA. We're living in their world. We're living in a world in which the manipulation of information is a standard part of our environment. And key lessons learned about fifth-gen warfare. In fifth-gen warfare, you should never, if it's well done, you should never be able to discern who is behind it. That's one of the key principles. You should never know who the puppet master is. It should be so subtle that you're not even aware that you're being manipulated. It seeks to control all information that you encounter and everything

that you think and feel and believe. That is the objective. You are the battleground. It's no longer territory. The territory is minds. If you control the mines, then you can overturn the governments and you can twist things however you want. And that is the purpose of the tech. It has been built for that purpose and it was built to support offshore CIA, State Department, military objectives like in Afghanistan. And then it was deployed against the citizens largely of the Five Ice Nations and the NATO allies. And that is the short version of what we're learning with DOJ and USAID and all these other things.

And as we were talking before we flipped on record, the question is, what is sixth generation warfare? And when I was learning about fifth generation warfare, I frequently read that the military strategists that were writing these academic papers were basically saying, we don't know what sixth-generation warfare is, what it's going to be. I think we now know. And the answer is sixth-generation warfare is autonomous battle drones. And it's already happening. It's basically—people don't realize, I gave you the story about my history that basically I'm the son and the godson in a sense of two engineers

that were deeply embedded in the military industrial complex in the California belt. And so one of the stories my dad told me, remember I mentioned he worked for Hiller Aircraft, was when he got recruited, the Vietnam War wasn't really wound up yet. And he told me that he had been advised by a mentor that the main purpose of the Vietnam War was to pioneer rotary wing aircraft battle.

If you can allow yourself to slip into that, to think that the strategists would implement regional skirmishes and warfare would implement regional skirmishes and warfare in order to build capabilities in advanced capabilities for warfare. Then aspects of what we've encountered throughout our lives make more sense, this kind of constant war. Ukraine war is the pioneering battlefield for sixth generation warfare, drone warfare technology. We now have AI-powered autonomous battle drones.

The reason why the US government is issuing manufacturing contracts and partnering contracts to Ukraine in device, this is for building stuff. We're shipping missiles and cartridges and tanks and whatever. This is working with them to build stuff. They are at the forefront of building autonomous battle drones that are powered by artificial intelligence where it used to be that our battle drones, the missiles, they take out this terrorist or that terrorist and you see the video where they've got the little screen and suddenly, boom, the truck blows up, right? And it's all automated.

That was all being done through a control center that's in North Dakota. So basically, you had young men raised on video games controlling those battle drones, and making those decisions and going, okay, do I have authorization to fire? Basically, you had young men raised on video games controlling those battle drones and making those decisions and going, okay, do I have authorization to fire? Oh yeah, you have authorization. Okay.

So there was a human in the loop. These days, we have fully autonomous AI-enabled battle drones being deployed in the Ukraine on both land and in the air and they're coordinated There was recently a battle in Ukraine that was entirely Drone warfare and they learned a bunch of things because that's what they do Turns out that the land ones, you know that you've seen all the robots the dogs and those kind of things They don't do very well in the mud Okay the dogs, and those kind of things. They don't do very well in the mud. OK.

And so there has to be all kinds of coordination and new strategies about how the other drones are brought forward when the one that's out in the front is stuck in the mud and how they uplink. Because the ones in the mud, the land ones only show a view that's from about 2 and 1 1 foot up. So they're looking kind of at kneecap level. And so they need to integrate with the drones in the sky

to get better situational awareness. But the key thing is they're fully autonomous, and they are enabled to kill without a human loop. That's where this is going, my friend. And the extension of that is that in the future, think Mexican warlords, right? The Mexican warlords are now congealing in response to the pressure from the US military. They're now kind of forming into more like battle groups. They have advanced technology because they can afford it.

In the future, we will have warlords. And what will enable you as the regional shogun will be that you have manufacturing capacity within your region to produce battle drones. I mean it's this is you know it's Star Wars is coming at us fast or or Skynet you know depending on pick your poison, your favorite. We all talk about The Matrix, but there's a lot of other science fiction out there that sure, we're now, and Elon Musk, of course, is all in on it, and so is Trump. That transhumanism is our future. Elon was just posting stuff on X about how all humans are going to be augmented. The logic is if you don't accept implants and direct machine interface into your own personal neural net, you'll be left behind.

And those that are Luddites that won't accept this essentially will become akin to dogs. They may be tolerated, but they're not really going to be part of human society. And the eventual embodiment of this is that the development of avatars, we all saw that movie too, right? But the, and this is kind of the derivative of surveillance capitalism, by the way, where they're scooping up all information they can about all of us all the time and then packaging it as behavioral futures. So that goes to building avatars. So the logic is that your avatar can then be uploaded and you're immortal. This, you know, I talk about this, Larry, this is named Larry Ellsworth of Oracle,

that did the whole pitch, you know, with Trump on day two about Stardate. Right, yeah. All right, y'all, quick break to tell you about organifi.com slash KKP, use code KKP for 20% off. Organifi.com slash KKP, code KKP for 20% off organify.com slash KKP hit there and grab a sunrise to sunset kit to be covered with the red the green and the gold with 20% off using code KKP these guys were put on the map from their green juice I talk about it all the time it's

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Head to organifi.com slash KKP and use code KKP for 20% off. Thank you Organifi for being one of our longest running show sponsors. Stargate, I'm sure, is all about enabling general artificial intelligence, the new hyper brain that everybody's so afraid of. And that's about enabling the future of human cyborg transhumanism and immortality.

When Elon talks about colonizing Mars, well, the easiest way is that the thing that colonizes Mars doesn't require life support. That really drops your load requirements. If you're just on a chip and able to make decisions. So that will enable us to explore the stars because you won't have problems with acceleration, G forces, et cetera.

The whole logic of transhumanism is that the human species is obsolete. The whole logic of transhumanism is that the human species is obsolete. And that's where this drives towards. But the counterpoint is, you know, quoting Alton John, I've seen that movie too. And you'll recall that Walt Disney had his brain frozen when he died. There was a time when I was much younger when all the rich elite all were having their brains cryogenically preserved because they would be able to be mounted on somebody else's body or something.

I don't know what. But that was the discussion back then, right? The history of the wealthy elite wanting to escape death is biblical, literally. And in the history of the Yuval-Harari logic, God is dead, we are gods. There's nothing new there. And we know where that story ends. But that is kind of where all this is directed. So the Cywar book is really intended to be a manual for people to, I guess in some ways, vicariously live through what I've experienced and to see through open eyes, eyes wide open about what's happening, what we're heading into, where it's going, the various mechanisms of manipulation. And yeah, most folks aren't going to go on Rogan and have a multi-million hit.

But they're basically that what's been happening has been the piloting of stuff like debanking in selected cases. And then they are kind of going retail with that and pushing it down to the average person through central bank digital currency, green passports, all of this kind of social credit system Chinese model. And why not? Because the likes of BlackRock think that the Chinese model works for them, and they're more powerful than governments right now. They have more capital. Fortunately, it's our capital that's being used against us, but that's the nature of

the world now. And they invest in China just the same as they invest in us, and that's the nature of the world now. And they invest in China just the same as they invest in us, and they like the Chinese model. They like to be able to control the population. Now what it'll do is it'll just destroy innovation. Censorship and innovation do not live in the same space. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? A lot of these people are grounded, this is the Green New Deal logic,

they're grounded in the thesis of neo-Malthusianism. The idea that we as human species, this is part of why we have to have AI to run the world, of course, is because we are really crummy stewards of the Earth and the environment. And so we have to have some higher power that can manage it, because clearly we can't. And so we need a non-corruptible...anybody that's been on Grok knows that Grok is corrupted soup to nuts, just the same as Wikipedia is, right?

It all depends on what your training data set. The people that think that this naively that this stuff is not going to be corruptible are the people that don't know a clue about machine learning. And I have any background in computer science at all. But that doesn't matter because they're being sold this by the press. And they don't think. They don't know what they don't know. And so they just, you know.

And hey, it's a business opportunity. So what's not to like about that? But that's where this drives towards. to words and you know the conclusion of the book is a talk that I gave in Geneva in protest to the WHO international health regulations that were being jammed down our throat in a big rally and slightly written rewritten from that but it's basically a speech I gave. It's titled The Battle Forevermore, a reference to Led Zeppelin for any Zepp fans, but a good title. We are in a battle, and I don't know who's going to win. I don't think anybody does.

And it's about things like sovereignty and autonomy and subsidiarity and free will and the things that make us human. Community. community. The way I see it, humanity can kind of, we're at a fork in the road a little bit. We can basically drive towards a techno-totalitarian future with, you know, I lay out a structure where I talk about the parallels between the global governance structure that is being proposed by the UN in coordination with the World Economic Forum and the European Union and the European Council. These people don't really believe in democracy. They use the term democracy as a weapon.

Oh, you're threatening democracy. But they don't believe in democracy. They like the European council structure where they appoint the people that are going to run things, like what's happened in Canada right now. You know, it's choose your young, WEF-trained young leader. You can have the girl or you can have the guy.

It's all the same thing, right? You want the blonde or it's your choice. That's WEF democracy. You get to choose among the people that we've chosen, selected for you. And then sitting on top of that, centralized bureaucracy that is based around a command economy idea, ergo Soviet Russia, and know, Klaus Schwab's version of stakeholder capitalism is kind

of really German fascism light without the kill the Israelis, kill the Jews, you know. Take out the genocide part and make it seem a little happier and friendlier, but it's still German Euro-socialism, and it's still fundamentally fascism. You know, the confluence of corporatism and socialism is the structure. And sitting on top of that are these NGOs that function to set the agenda, almost as think tanks, that drive the bureaucracy and operate at the behest of largely big money. And big money now is, a lot of people don't get this, why are American funds funding

our chief strategic opponent in China? I don't understand. Okay, get a clue guys. It used to be that capital was tied to geography from whence it sprang. That is so yesterday. Today capital exists in a global sense where it is completely decoupled from its geographic source and the people that generated, you know Capital if we want to go marks in surplus value is the source of this capital that's accrued and pooled and

That capital now is decoupled from nation-state and it's gotten so big That it's actually more powerful than almost every nation-state, and it's gotten so big that it's actually more powerful than almost every nation-state. So almost like a nigger gore. Yeah, so it now tours the world looking for the best return on investment. so we can get a better return on investment in Thailand or Serbia or Fill in the blank. It'll go there It doesn't care if it's a you know major fun component of it is American pension funds. It really is irrelevant Its job is to seek the highest return on investment and it it will go anywhere. If it has to go to China,

fine, good. If China offers the best deal, hey, it's capitalism. But that's one of the tensions that exists as we think about MAGA, Make America Great Again, and MAHA, Make America Healthy Again, is these tensions that exist between unfettered capitalism and monopolistic behavior and globalism, and the rights of the individual. Murray Rothbard, I'm a big fan of frankly, I'm somewhere in the spectrum between narco-capitalist and libertarian and constitutional conservative. That's kind of where I live. But Rothbard makes the case that monopolies don't exist except

as the consequence of the state. And that's a hard one to wrap your mind around when you see monopolists see monopolistic behavior all around you. But there's merit to that. A lot of these monopolies exist, like Soros. Soros is a creature of the CIA. Soros basically was enabled by the US government and the State Department and the CIA to scoop

up Russian assets after the USSR failed. And he made big book on that. And then he cleaned the clock of the Bank of England. And then he was set free on the world. But he's still, as we all know, he's very much aligned with a kind of Obama-Clinton, I hesitate to say Biden, matrix that is linked to WEF and the kind of globalist structure. People don't appreciate that Larry Fink and Black Rock became what they are as a consequence of the deal with Obama for the distribution of the funds that were made available to support

the recovery post the Great Recession. And Black Rock was given the contract to distribute those funds. And the way that this worked was that BlackRock, you know, best accounting principles. Well, if we're going to give you this money, then you're going to have to provide full accounting tracking and accountability for where that money goes, because we have to audit it because we're responsible. OK? And we not only want to know who you give it to, but who gets it downstream, two or

three. And this money goes to multinational corporations. And so as a consequence, suddenly BlackRock finds itself with the most comprehensive database of global financial transactions that have ever existed. What do they do with that? They build futures projections. So now they can see in a very real sense what's going on in the world in a way that has never been possible before. So that allows them to make all kinds of strategic decisions and investments because they know where

the trends are. And their business explodes. We created that monster. We created that monster for all the best reasons, right? Like a lot of things. Any case, so that's the kind of the thrust of the book is we're in the battle forever more. and we're in the battle forevermore. I don't know who wins. And it may be that those of us that are dissenters that don't want to live in that hell need to take a chapter out of Atlas Shrugged and build our own gold sculptures, which is basically where I'm at.

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Focus on being capable of doing things, not just living in the virtual world. Live in the physical world. Be able to do stuff with your hands. Well, I think we're definitely aligned in that area that the things that are within our control are the things that matter most, you know, being in nature, supporting ourselves, building community, you know, like the idea of being sovereign is not that you can just become some node that lives by yourself out in the woods. We need interaction, we need each other. And so building the, through the interconnectivity, like building our community. I've got buddies, you know, we do sheep here, we did cows. I've got a buddy who specializes in meat, birds and pig,

you know, and we're all doing regenerative style. The animals are perfectly healthy, never had a shot. And so if I want clean pig, I know who to go to and we can swap, we can barter and go direct. You know, a lot of cool things in that set up. And it's old school, but it's fulfilling. It's fulfilling to be on the land. Yep.

And so I have people coming to me, because we write the sub stack, and we talk about homesteading. And also the epic time series, Fallout, talked about that quite a bit. And so, like for instance, the other day in Rome, I had a young couple stay behind to talk to me. She's pregnant. They're in Umbria, living in a small town

looking for some land. And I said, the whole reason to do this is that pregnancy, the child, it produces different kinds of kids, particularly if you homeschool them. And they're increasingly rare in a world in which the kids are all raised on digital media. in a world in which the kids are all raised on digital media. But there is a huge skill set. This is, I think, our sixth small farm, my third tractor.

And it's getting old. Wife wants to get me a new one. She wants one with a cab, because it gets cold in the winter. You take for granted all this stuff that you've built up over years and years and years, all the skill sets, particularly if you don't have anybody to pass it off to. For the neophyte, I know, I tell them just start with chickens Chickens work, especially these days where the killer and

And go from there but don't think that you can just Just you know be be aware be humble That it takes a lot to really run a small farm. And the only people we benefited by the way, I used to, Jill and I used to breed draft horses. And there was a period of time where we actually worked at the farm with horses. So I can hitch and I actually got an award for driving a team at the World Perturon Congress. So I'm a teamster in the old school way, among other things. I'm also a farrier. Not too many physician scientists farriers out there.

But sometimes I say, I have to go shoe a horse. And people say, you're going to shoot your horse? Sometimes I say, I have to go shoe a horse, and people say, you're going to shoot your horse? So because of that, we were able to spend time with Amish and Mennonite communities. And the Amish and the Mennonites are kind of the only ones left that really know how to make a small farm work, in my opinion. And there's a ton that we can learn from. Not that they are angels. only ones left that really know how to make a small farm work, in my opinion. And there's a ton that we can learn from. Not that they are angels. There's a lot of dark stuff in those communities.

There's sexual abuse. There's all kinds of stuff that goes on. Prostitution. You know, you think of that, they're all just, you know, in their little bonnets and being holy. No, they're all just in their little bonnets and being holy. No, they're humans. But they know a lot about the old school way of making a farm work.

And one of the things they do is they don't just have a product. There's not a single source of revenue. All of those little farms are producing revenue in all kinds of different ways all the time. And by the way, the kids work. They work when they're this big to when they're out the door. And there's a lot to learn from those people, a lot of wisdom there that has been lost in American culture that somehow we're going to have to recapture if we're going to tunnel through into this, through this bizarre future of Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab and transhumanism and, you know, stopping the cows from farting.

And it was crazy crap that's going on. Crazy. I read a funny line. It was a headline that said, cow farts cause climate change is utter nonsense. I was like, let's go. I like that pun. Utter nonsense. Yeah. I bet that was a headline in the Washington Post or the New York Times, right? Not so much. Well, tell us where people can find you, your sub stack, all that stuff, a link to this in the show notes. It has been an honor and I really appreciate your work in the world that you've granted us this time. Where can people follow you and learn more and stay on track and in the loop with what you're bringing to the forefront? Thanks.

The answer is, the books, the proper way to say this is they're available at all good booksellers. Which is a way to gently say, if you don't want to do business with Jeff Bezos, there are other options. Unfortunately, the audio book for Cywar, which I recorded on this microphone right in front of me between about 10 at night and four in the morning because of the traffic noise from my neighbor's motorcycle going back and forth on the road, the audio book you can only get from Amazon. And I don't mind it at all, though. I gotta say, I think you did a great job. I listen to Audible, I appreciate it. I've heard different authors sometimes reading their own books turn the page,

like Martine Prectal, and it just makes me feel like I'm sitting in the room with them. That's cool. Yeah, I didn't do that. I read it off of a PDF. But, so, you can buy it from Tony Lyons at Sky and Horus. There's some interesting bookseller aggregators that you can get it from. Or you can go to Jeff Bezos on Amazon. Substack is what keeps us alive. And that we had to change the name from who is Robert Malone, a reference to who is

John Galt for the insiders, their Anran fans. So it's now Malone.News, which doesn't get censored on X in the same way because it doesn't have the word substack in it, which is deadly if you're on X don't say sub stack or you get shadow band so Malone dot news and you can subscribe or not I paid subscriber not if you if you have an unpaid it comes in your inbox but if you have paid subscription you get to participate in the chat which has allowed us to create a really nice chat community that kind of, you know, we keep the trolls out because they don't want to pay five bucks a month.

And anybody that comes in and is nasty and disruptive, we just kick them out. I don't care if they're paid. Then social media, X, Getter, Truth Social, and now Parler. Big push on Parler. Parler's back. And that's all the ideas at RW Malone MD. So business there.

We also have a Rumble channel. I need to do more video for that. But we all need more time. So those are the coordinates. Thanks for the opportunity. Great to chat. It sounds like you're connected to a lot of the people that I have enjoyed the most in my long, strange trip through the podcasting universe. So keep at it and look forward to our next chat. Absolutely. Thank you, Robert.