Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #413 The Raw Milk Revolution: Nature's Superfood and its Untapped Potential w/ Mark McAfee

Episode Date: July 6, 2025

In this podcast episode, I discuss the benefits and misconceptions of raw milk with guest Mark McAfee. McAfee, a raw milk farmer and advocate, shares his journey from being a paramedic to running one of the largest raw milk dairies in the world. The conversation covers various topics including the differences between raw and pasteurized milk, the health benefits of raw milk, particularly for the gut and immune system, and how raw milk can help alleviate conditions like lactose intolerance and autism. McAfee emphasizes the importance of local, clean, and well-tested raw milk, and discusses the broader implications of consuming whole, unprocessed foods for overall health and well-being. Additionally, they touch on the regulatory challenges and advancements in testing for pathogens in raw milk. Resources for finding local raw milk are also provided.   Connect with Mark here: Get Raw Milk! Instagram     Honorable mentions: Weston A Price Foundation   Our Sponsors: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to Lucy.co/KKP and use promo code (KKP) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers FREE SHIPPING and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. If there’s ONE MINERAL you should be worried about not getting enough of... it’s MAGNESIUM. Head to http://www.bioptimizers.com/kingsbu now and use code KINGSBU10 to claim your 10% discount. If you’re 21+, check out the link to VIIA and use the code KKP to receive 15% off, free shipping on orders over $100, AND if you’re new to VIIA - get a free gift of your choice. After you purchase they ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them we sent you. Enhance your everyday with VIIA. For the best Creatine on the market, visit https://shopbeam.com/KKP and use code KKP  to get our exclusive discount of up to 30% off.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Fit For Service Academy App: Fit For Service App Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Kyle-Kingsbury Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!  

Welcome back to the podcast. It has been a wild week having the liver king on the podcast and all of the fun that has ensued online since the release of that podcast. And it kind of reminds me of fighting. You know, if you get your ass kicked in a fight and everybody says, you're the worst fighter on earth. Nobody likes you.

You should retire. And then you have another fight and the fight goes well. And it's, oh, all right. Well, we're back fight and the fight goes well. And it's all all right. Well, we're back to normal, back to normal, even just getting back in the gym. You know, and this podcast was recorded before the one with liver King with Mark McAfee today's podcast was recorded before that liver King wanted to get that out as soon as possible. So we made an exception and did that, but just releasing it, you know, feels.

Feels like I'm back in the back back to normal back to business as usual there's been a lot of stupid comments on Instagram if you don't follow me go to at Kyle Kings boo I'm there at living with the Kingsbury's my wife channel at Kings bow on X even though I'm a poster very very little you know one of the comments was this guy who interviewed him thinks milk is a super raw milk is a superfood we say that again this guy who interviewed him thinks milk is a super, raw milk is a super food. Let me say that again. This guy said, there was a guy who commented,

the guy who interviewed Liver King thinks that raw milk is a super food. And I was like, what do you mean thinks? Raw milk is a super food. And I had this podcast already recorded with Mark McAfee and I'm like, dude, I can't wait to release this episode. It is chock full of information. All types of good information. I've been a huge fan of raw milk. If you really

dive deep into health and wellness and you follow the greats, Weston A. Price, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, which is, I believe his work, we'll link to that in the show notes. If you just go to the Price Foundation, you can go to their website, WestinAidPrice.com, and you can see all sorts of cool information on raw milk and all sorts of other stuff. But the story of this, when you really dive deep into the story behind our food, you can see that how nature did it is pretty damn potent. And when we start to tinker, that's when things go awry. There are ways in which we can tinker that enhance, like fermenting. If you make

kefir or if you make sauerkraut, right? Nothing wrong with those things. They can enhance for damn sure. When I was in the supplement game, we found a company that was fermenting different foods in the use of supplements. So when I created total lactic oxide, we used fermented beet powder. Why ferment it? Well, there's 15 times the amount of nitrates, the things that contribute to making more nitric oxide in the body, creating more vasodilation and increasing all sorts of good stuff that you want

from a product like that. So yeah, we are able to tinker here and there with things that make them better, but for the most part, nature does it right, right from the jump. Raw milk is one of the greatest gifts to man. It truly is. When we cook, it's absolutely not the same thing. And so Mark dives into a really fascinating story,

you know, of his life as a first responder and all sorts of cool shit, and then just perfect timing, divine timing. As one door closes in the raw milk game, his opens, and he became like the distributor. I remember living in California. I would get his milk at Whole Foods, sprouts, all over the place.

It was everywhere. They had sold colostrum, kefir, all sorts of goodies, raw butter. I mean, it was just a really cool thing. And they still do. We have a local place that we go to here in Texas now. Local, I think, is the move. But if you're in California, or if you just want a really good raw milk, these guys are it. So this podcast was dope. Give it

a listen, share it with friends. If there's any raw milk naysayers out there, just send them this one and say, Hey, listen for yourself, buddy. Raw milk's the real deal. All right. Support the show by sharing it with a friend. Leave us a five star rating with one or two ways the show has helped out in life and support this show by purchasing stuff from our sponsors. These guys make this fiscally possible, meaning the amount of energy and time and money that I pour into this thing is only possible when you guys purchase from my sponsors. This is it. I don't have a Patreon account. I'm never going to charge you per episode or anything like that. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not what I feel like doing. I'd rather team up with awesome sponsors, people that I get behind

products that I use and say, Hey, this is the stuff I'm taking. Try it for yourself and reap the benefits of the products that I've aligned myself with. All right. Without further ado, my brother, Mark McAfee. Mark McAfee, welcome back to the podcast, brother. Hey, I'm glad to be with you, Kyle. Well, I'm so excited.

We had a little bit of technical difficulties trying to run video. I've got star link. So hopefully that improves Elon, but most people, about 99% of everybody taking this in does it through audio anyways. So it shouldn't be a big deal. Anywho, uh, you know, one of the things that I was talking about is the point that for a long time, for me, it was pretty disheartening to see all the stats coming out on autism

Allergies food sensitivities you name it. It always just kept getting worse and worse, especially for our young ones And being a father of two, you know, it's something I've kept a close watch on but it feels Culturally like there's a shift taking place and I don't know I don't want to give full credit to Bobby Kennedy and the Maha team, but I think that was already happening. And that's what kind of elevated him for better or worse. And people have just been tracking what is real health? What does it mean to take sovereignty over my own life? The decisions I make around my own medicine, especially since 2020, what goes into my body? What goes into my kids bodies? What kind of food do I eat? What are the lifestyle choices that impact us? You know, we talked a bit on depression

and a whole bunch of other stuff that I want to rehash, but I just want to frame that and say, you know, it's two or three years ago, I probably wouldn't have had a raw milk expert on this podcast, but now I think the world's ready for it. And you know, as you'll break down, you know, we see all these connections between the microbiome and the gut and so much more with cognitive function and mental health, like there's never been a more important time. So I just want to say thank you for coming on the podcast, brother. I'm excited to dive into it with you today. Something I always start

with is, you know, paint a picture of what life was like growing up, talk about the jobs you had that got you to where you are today. And then let's fire off on all things awesome with raw milk. Great, well, I wanted to make a comment on something you said. I think RFK has given voice, given real voice to something that's been brewing in America for quite some time,

especially since 2020 when the immune system was really acknowledged as failed in America, and the immune system is the gut. The gut microbiome is 80% or more of the immune system of the functioning body. And if your immune system works well, then you can pretty much react and adapt and resilient to most threats coming your way, including a lot of viruses.

So that said, I started out, you know, I was the chief slave on the farm here, on a dairy farm that my parents had, not the one I have today, but I worked on the farm when I was the chief slave on the farm here on a dairy farm that my parents had, not the one I have today. But I worked on the farm when I was a child. So I grew up as a farm kid. In high school, I was in track. I was in band, I traveled internationally. I did a lot of debate stuff. Really enjoyed that. But my first job out of high school, I was a welder in a mine up in the mountains at Teladon, Tungsten. And I saw a guy almost get killed. a big old timber hit him in the head

and the paramedics came in with a helicopter and when that helicopter landed and the orange jumpsuits, the medics and nurses jumped out I said, I wanna be on that EMS ship. That's what I wanna do. I wanna be a paramedic. That's really cool. So I left that after making some money

and I got my pre-med taken care of and then I went off and I became a paramedic, EMT-1, EMT-2. I worked around the valley here for many years. Ended up in American Ambulance, I was their operations manager for a while, HR director, recruiter, preceptor. I was on the rescue team, I was on the helicopter. So I got to run 15,000 paramedic calls

and I got to see people in real life dying and tried to save their lives. Heart attacks, asthma attacks, a lot of kids. Remember, 10 people a day die from asthma in America today. And we know that raw milk makes it better. The studies in Europe are very profound. So I saw all of that diabetes and heart attacks and shitties and stabbings and car wrecks. You name it, we saw it over 15 years, 16 years.

In 1996, I retired from all that. And my second chapter of life began when we took over the family farms and my grandparents had leased the farms out to other farmers. My dad and mom did some farming and then they didn't. I took it back with a very intentional purpose and that was I was not going to serve processors and other brands. I was going to serve people and humanity with my own brand and what people wanted and that very quickly developed into Organic Pastures which is now Raw Farm which is the largest raw milk dairy in the world. It kind of started a really important kind of important lesson not lesson

it's kind of an event to share is what happened in 2000. Altadena in Los Angeles was a huge raw milk producing dairy and they went out of business. They sold. And so May of 1999 was the last port of raw milk. Well, people in LA wanted raw milk and they called me being the closest organic dairy to Los Angeles saying, bring raw milk.

So my wife and I put a bunch of ice chests at the back of our suburban and loaded it up with a bunch of bottled milk. I didn't have a permit to do raw milk. I just did it. So we did all this, a couple hundred and a half gallons of raw milk and went down to this place called The Garage in Venice Beach. And as we pulled in, I don't know how many people were there, but the place was packed. It was just lined. It was like 100 feet deep of people. There may have been 50, 100, I don't know how many people that there, but the place was packed. It was just lined. It was like 100 feet deep of people. There may have been 50, 100. I don't know how many people that were there, but it was packed of people just cheering us as we arrived.

And I couldn't get out of our suburban to unpack the ice chest. People opened up the suburban by themselves and got their ice chest out and started grabbing the money, grabbing the milk and putting 10 and $20 bills in the back of the car, just throwing it in there. And within a few minutes, I got out, my wife got out, we started talking to James Stewart, who ran the operation, and he says, you've gotta come back tomorrow, we need more milk.

And it was like, everybody was just overjoyed, drinking the milk right there. And this woman came up to my wife, who's a nurse, and she said, they're all out of raw milk, and I have to have some raw milk for my child, has an illness and the raw milk really helps them, really helps her. So my wife turned to this other person who had taken like four or five and she grabbed a couple of them and she said here these are on us, these are free and she gave the money back to the other person and said we're so sorry that your child's ill but we're so glad that raw milk makes it better.

And so after just a few minutes with them, we said, we'll come back in a few days, but we got to go, we got to go back to Fresno and get to work. So we left after talking for maybe 30 minutes or so. And my wife and I looked at each other and said, what in the hell just happened? What just went down? Thousands of dollars in our car, people ecstatic and raw milk

from our farm had just been delivered. And so that was the seminal basis for my transition from being a paramedic to being a farmer that produced as raw milk for people. And now we have our raw milk dairy products in 500 stores throughout California and over a thousand stores nationally with our truly raw cheddar cheese. So we've learned a lot and I'm now a part of the International Milk Genomics Consortium at UC Davis, considered an expert in raw milk production and standards production.

I also founded the rawmilkinstitute.org which trains farmers all around the world on how to produce raw milk with high standards, not the standards you use for pasteurization, which really should be pasteurized because it's filled with pathogens. It's pretty dirty. But raw milk for human consumption was just very clean and safe, very low risk.

So I've been going to these International Mug Genomics Consortium conferences at UC Davis for about 14 years this year. This year, I'm going to Aarhus, Denmark for the third time to attend. And I'm the only farmer in the room 99% of the time. On occasion, another farmer shows up. Literally, almost all the time, I'm the only farmer

in the room with all these PhD researchers that are sharing the most cutting edge technology or information or research or studies about raw milk, breast milk or whatever, genomics, lipidomics, proteomics, enzymes, all that stuff. And everybody wants to talk about raw milk, but if they do, they lose their connections with the grant, the grant money at NIH.

So I'm the only farmer, the only person in the room that can actually freely speak. So I always ask really key questions and everybody always comes to me going, that was awesome, ask more, because they're all dying to know more about raw milk for human consumption when it's kind of suppressed because of the political and economic forces of research and study. So that's what brings us today to this talk about the gut microbiome and the bioactives found in raw milk

destroyed by pasteurization that people are looking for to heal themselves, to protect themselves so they're adaptive and resilient from threats that come their way, including viruses and all kinds of stuff. Inflammation, chronic inflammation is driven, it drives disease. So people are looking to that first food of life. Remember when babies are born, they don't get pasteurized milk, they get raw milk from mom's breasts. And so that raw milk is filled with all kinds of gifts from God himself in terms of the evolutionary pressures that created this optimal food of life that actually develops

and matures and starts to mature and seeds into the gut all these things that are required for the gut to function right. And those are the bioactives. And those are destroying pasteurization. So that's what gets me going in my world and I'm really excited about it Kyle. Alright guys quick break to tell you about beam creatine. As an athlete I've always looked for ways to get an edge not just for a fight but every day.

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Well, VG touched on a point that's a ton of points there, but a couple of them that I want to tease out that I find super interesting are, number one, the idea of pasteurization nuking and taking away all of the good stuff that's in raw milk and the fact that raw milk is self-protecting. The bacteria and probiotics that are in it, the enzymes that are in it when packaged appropriately are actually things that will keep that milk from turning bad and protect it throughout. Once we cook it, we've effectively changed it to such a way we've denatured the product. It no longer is a superfood.

It's become something else entirely, no different than the franken foods we have on the shelves. Well, you're correct. If you go to the FDA, that's FDA website, and you put in most allergenic foods list, guess what's number one? Pasteurized dairy products. But yet raw milk products are not, they're not allergenic. In fact, they really, really do a good job of stabilizing the mast cell. They do, which releases histamines by the way.

So you stabilize that, you don't have the histamine reaction and they're anti-inflammatory and actually mediate the cytokine response, which is what happens when you get a big infection response to your body with allergies. So raw milk has all those things you'd want to have, a baby have at the most susceptible time of life, at birth, no longer protected by the amniotic fluid around

in the bag of the baby in the belly, right? No longer in a bulk of corn. Now exposed the entire world. And raw milk is that food, the colostrum first, and then within a few hours, the raw milk, which seeds in all those bioactives, the diversity of bacteria bacteria and the food that feeds it. And that becomes the basis of the immune system. And the more breastfeeding

we do, the better the happier the children are, the more fortified they are, the stronger they are, the more resilient they are to be able to adapt to the threats that are in their environments. So it's the foundation of our immune system. And without the immune system, we literally become sick and die quickly. So the gut is where it's at. If you want to ask yourself a question about what I should be eating, ask yourself a question like this.

What is good for my gut and my microbiome? Is it preservatives that kill off bacteria to extend shelf life? No. Is it preserved foods that kill off bacteria to extend shelf life? No. Is it preserved foods that are sterilized that have no bacteria or enzymatic action at all? No, because the microbiome depends on the diversity of bacteria.

You have to have a little dirt in your food. You have to have that diversity of bacteria and the food that feeds it. That's the two fundamental things that make up a resilient adaptive immune system. So the gut microbiome is driven by good food, good food, unprocessed, whole natural foods. And so that's where we're seeing this great awakening.

And I think that the Maha Commission has done a pretty good job in that 73 pages of identifying the crisis we're in. The amount of gut microbiome related diseases is out of the roof. They talk about autism, they talk about obesity, they talk about $11,000 a year being spent on healthcare per person with 10 years shorter lifespan.

When in Europe, they're living 10 years longer on half that expenditure, five to seven thousand. So we're spending a lot of money on pharmaceuticals and the proof is in the pudding. Pharma might be a really good intervention for an acute problem, but it is not a way to address the long term chronic disease process and inflammation which actually causes disease. It causes us to have a need for a pharmaceutical invention. So foods are where it's at. Good fats are where it's at. The bioactives found in raw milk are part of the solution

and very, very important. I will add one thing though, that it's just not anybody's raw milk out there to dairy. That if you're producing raw milk intended to be pasteurized, you're not doing all the things you need to do to produce raw milk for human consumption. When you produce raw milk for human consumption, you better have that cow out at sunshine. You better be feeding it right. She's got to be healthy. You got a farmer that cleans that udder really,

really well to make sure you don't have a bunch of crap in it. You better not be eating a bunch of antibiotics and you better have a super fast chilling so that milk comes out of the cow really clean and delicious. It stays that way and it's cold quick, not over two hours, but over two minutes or five minutes or 45 minutes. So you really want to have rapid chilling and clean cows in a sanitary condition. And that's the kind of milk we're talking about at the Raw Milk Institute that is actually proven to be very low risk and safe and delicious and fantastic to heal your body. I love that. Yeah, I wanted to touch just one last piece on immune function, you know,

which is so closely tied to the microbiome is that when we had the AIDS epidemic and HIV, you know, which is just being, you know, there's a lot of discussion around what that actually is, but clearly they're immune compromised that they were big into raw milk and big into colostrum as a supplement. And the reason for that was because it could raise

their immune system to the point where they could function again. And so, you know, I like learning, you learn from professional athletes, that kind of stuff, what are the pros using at the top, that kind of stuff, and work your way back down. And I think seeing kind of the largest group of people that were impacted from an immunocompromised position,

what they turned to, I think we could learn a lot from that. You know, when you really think about this, when I think about the microbiome, you know, there's a really cool book I'll link to in the show notes that talks about the buddies in my belly. And it's a kid's book, you know, I read it to my kids, you know, and they talk about the different foods and, and the stuff you can drink that that will help fortify the microbiome and feed the buddies in your belly. And I think of usually a couple things,

when I look at my plate, and it's different for everybody, how much fat and protein you need versus carbohydrates. I think that's something that Paul Chek and Dr. William Walcott through metabolic typing really iron out for people. But just this idea of I want micros, right? I want macros and I want something that's gonna feed

the buddies in my belly. Yes. And you know, they're, you know, in super, we talked about super foods, how super foods as a name has really been co-opted by the vegan community and these guys searching for plants all across the world. And while I am huge into plant medicine

and fully respect that, when I think of super foods, I think of oysters, I think of organ meat, I think of oysters, I think of organ meat. I think of raw milk that's done well. I think of these things that, that they have such a myriad of benefits, right? Like every building block you'd need for sex hormone production is in an oyster. And it even, you know, looks like a Volvo, right? There's omega-3s, there's protein, there's fat, there's all that they're

just, they're just loaded pound for pound, even more than liver. And, um, I think about milk as well. There's microbes in that that are built for growth. There's digestive enzymes, there's probiotics, there's things that alter the gut chemistry in a way that's healing, right? I actually fixed my milk problems with raw milk. And that's what allowed me to start eating other cheeses and cottage cheese and things like that without any dairy issues whatsoever. It was fixed via raw milk. And so I think that's an incredible thing

that most people, if they have a milk issue, it's semantics, right? They're saying, no, I can't have milk. It's like, well, you can't have the crap they're selling in the store, but you can have really good nature-based raw milk, right? Yep. Well, here's something for you, Kyle. I love this really, really powerful evidence. It's been well studied. It's now in PubMed. You can see it. For about 12

years, there was a study done in Europe called the Parsifal Study. There was follow-ons from it. The Parsifal Study studied over 50,000 children over 10 years. And there was other studies associated with the possible study. It was done in Germany. It was done in the Netherlands. It was all across Europe. And what they found was the children that drank raw milk

had much less asthma, and they had much less fever and flu. Now, what's the flu? The flu is the virus that comes every year. The influenza comes every year. And every year, guess what? It's different. It's not the same comes every year, the influenza that comes every year, and every year, guess what? It's different. It's not the same one every year. That's why they're always trying to come up with the newest flu vaccine that you're supposed to take every year, right? Well, they don't ever get it right because the flu changes, and the vaccine was made six months earlier.

So they don't really know what the flu is this year. They're just doing a best guess at it. And sometimes it works about 20% of the time. Well, guess what? The children that drank raw milk every year didn't get the flu because they were adaptive and resilient to the next threat. Their microbiome had anti-virus bioactives. There's powerful, there's like 18 of them that's been identified, lactoferrin, lactoparadoadoxidase, alkaline phosphatase. I mean there's just a bunch of them that are in there and some of them are highly antivirus. Well if you're drinking raw milk every year and the cow is producing raw milk every year, she's actually adapting to the environment she's in as

well with whatever's going on in the environment she's providing antibodies to whatever that is in her body and in her milk and you're drinking it so she's a living adaptive food making machine that adapts to the threat of the year and it's powerful because you can adapt as well if you're embracing that food machine that Mother Nature created for us which is the cow out of the pastures, in the sunshine, this being exposed to all the bugs, all the viruses, all the everything, and she herself has created this immune milk, this raw milk,

which actually protects her young and can protect you too. And it shows in the data that these kids didn't get the flu, or if they did, it was very short-lived and not severe, it was very mild. So it allows you to adapt and be resilient to threats as they come over time. So raw milk is a powerful immune system building food as the evidence shows very clearly.

I love that you brought that up. There's a really cool raw milk not far from us here that we get raw milk from in Texas. And Strick is the name of it. It's down in Schulenburg. And something I noticed they make they make cheese as well but I noticed that one time they had they had a blocks of cheese that were far more colorful you know they had way more carotenoids in it and they said oh that was the

spring cheese and then when the summer came the summer is like a winter here in Texas for most places because it gets so dry you saw like a much whiter cheese. And that's because the carotenoids were so high in the spring with the rains, that that actually went into the cheese, right? And something that I think there is really cool to understand is that when people say eat locally, there's a whole bunch of reasons for that.

But one of the reasons is it's tuning you in to where you live on earth, right? And the thing I love about raw milk is not only is it tuning you in, if it's tuning you in to where you live on earth, right? And the thing I love about raw milk is not only is it tuning you in, if it's local, not only is it tuning you into where you live, it's tuning you into the timing of where you live, right? Cause they are eating and producing the season that is within them, right?

Like you're right on time with the longitude and latitude and the rains, the lands, the ups and the downs, that's all being processed by the cow for you to produce life. It's a harmony of biological synchrony. It really is. And where you are and the food you eat, everything being very local,

that should be your foundation. That should be the local, very resilient foods. I totally agree. It goes with raw honey, the pollen, it goes with raw milk, it goes with kefir, which is my favorite healing food. Raw milk and kefir is the most powerful gut healing food on earth. And then you add into it, you know,

the Mediterranean diet with avocados and olive oil and bone broths and all that good stuff and good whole meats and fermented vegetables are fantastic. So all those things, they literally cure Crohn's disease in six months. Crohn's disease is gut inflammation, Irrhebiol syndrome, celiac, all that stuff, gut reaction to the foods we eat,

and maybe some genetic predispositions as well. But you can mediate that by just changing the gut conditions with anti-inflammatory foods that heal it all. And we've seen this time and time and time again in California where people said, I'm not taking surgery to take out 10 feet of my gut. I'm gonna get on a whole food nutrition diet

with raw milk kefir and smoothies. And what do you know, in six, eight months, they're done. They're perfect, they're like normal. So it's a healing food like you can't believe. Yeah, that actually, I think you just painted a perfect picture of why when you went to Venice, so many people were cheering and waiting for you guys because they understood the power of it, right? I mean, you wouldn't see that for something else, you know?

Like you take that away from somebody when you have a population of people that truly understand what it is they're buying and what that's doing for themselves and their family, it becomes that important. That makes sense. Let's shift gears and talk a bit about the microbiome and brain health. I mentioned Kelly Brogan

as somebody who's been out here and spoken. We did an event here at the farm with Bobby Kennedy and she was one of the speakers. And she's so brilliant in the way that she talks about the entire field of SSRI is kind of being built on a on a house of cards, you know, and that that's not exactly, you know Figuring out that there's an imbalance here or there and that we can tinker with it one one chemical at a time It's not necessary the solution

But understanding the microbiome does create 80 to 90 percent of our neurochemistry in the gut It would seem that gut health is directly tied to mood, depression, and mental health. You can be more right. Really, really important. I mean, you got all these people with depression, anxiety, other health, mental problems. You realize that serotonin is a neurotransmitter that's synthesized and made by the gut microbiome. The bacteria in the gut makes serotonin,

which then travels to your brain to make you feel good. The same thing with dopamine makes you feel it's all made in the gut. So this idea that we're going to take a new drug, the SSRIs, and mediate our mental health is actually a completely pharmaceutical kidnapping of what should be going on, which is actually making more of the good stuff in your gut. So, yeah, we're in a crisis in America and all kinds of things, and mental health is one of them. You've got diabetes and obesity and metabolic syndrome and asthma,

killing 10 people a day, thank you very much. And it just goes on and on and on, chronic inflammation, heart attacks. I mean, it's just, it's an outrage that we are spending twice as much as the rest of the world in getting 10 years of lifespan less. That's the Mahas Commission Report, which is very, very compelling. How do we fix that?

Well, let's go to the blue zones a little bit. Let's look at the blue zones around the world and see how they live to be 90 to 100 years old without chronic disease or rare. And what are they eating? They're eating kind of a Mediterranean type diet, whole food nutrition. They're drinking and eating raw milk, especially raw milk cheeses, which have not been thermalized. They've not been cooked and called raw, but in fact, they're pasteurized because there's no definition of thermalization in America. They're truly raw. The cheeses that have never been above body temperature

in their vat where they're being created. So all these bioactives are alive. So you look at the truth, you look at the data, you dive into the blue zones and a lot of the secrets become very manifestly true. I mean, exercise, sunshine, lower stress, communal connection, love, relaxation, the whole idea that good stress, like physical stress, communal connection, love, you know, relaxation, the whole idea that good stress, like physical stress, physical exercise, and whole food nutrition, and

these are fermented foods we're talking about, raw dairy, all these wonderful foods that we have in those areas around the world, including Loma Linda here in California, which is considered a blue zone, but look at their diet. It's amazing what's going on, just the diet and the exercise and the commitment to getting out in the sunshine. So the gut is where it's at, guys. The gut is where it's at. I love that.

You mentioned cheese and things like that and kefir. Talk a bit about, that's something I've loved. I got into the Weston A. Price Foundation, Via How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy by Paul Cech, and I've followed them for a long time. I love the nourishing traditions books that really spoke to the way, you know, all indigenous peoples of the planet, you know,

would cultivate food in a way that was healing for the gut and made it more appropriate and different ways to preserve food. You know, when you consider that we've been feeding ourselves since before refrigeration and different things like that, it makes sense to have some of these different methods. But preservation can actually enhance foods in certain ways. And I think that's apparent when you look at different types of cheese, when you look at different fermented dairy products.

And all over the world, they've got fermented dairy products. But talk a bit about some of your favorites in there, what that's doing, what's changing. I really fell in love with cheeses when I was doing more of a ketogenic diet and practicing low carbohydrates to help heal my brain. And I felt like I had all the benefits of the raw milk minus the carbohydrates. So there was a win there. Now of course I love raw milk and of not recommending people stay in a particular form of fasting for longer than a few months,

but it definitely helped my brain when I was doing it. And I process carbohydrates great now, so milk's in. But talk a bit about your favorite forms of ways to work with milk. Well, let's go back 12,000 years or maybe in 14,000 years, the scientists are arguing about what the first evidence of human consumption was for raw milk and cave wall drawings of milk being drawn

from the arrowcks and goats and sheep, literally over 10,000 years ago. You think about mankind, they were suffering a lot. They were starving. They were having a hard time eating because they had to fish, they had to hunt, they had to grow things, gather things. Well, if you had a goat, a cow, a sheep, a horse, a camel, a reindeer,

you could have portable food today. And you could take that food with you as long as you had grass on the ground, some sunshine and rain once in a while. You could eat all year long right now. And by the way, when you put the milk into a container and it wasn't chilled quickly, it wasn't made cold quickly, that container was not particularly clean. It had residues from prior milkings in there. And that milk would become kefir, a local kefir, would be fermented within 24 hours because it was warm and had an inoculum from this bacteria, the mother

culture from the container. So what they were drinking was kefir, literally 24 hours later, and that kefir would last for a month without being refrigerated. It would do quite well. It would separate into curd and whey. The curd you could strain off really easily

and it was clotted milk and that would become cheese. You could add a little salt to it, little herbs, make delicious cheese that would last for a year into the winter time. And that whey protein that would come off extremely strong for the gut microbiome as well as the mast cells and very very profoundly anti-inflammatory by the way. By the way. Anyway, that said, prehistoric man realized there was a massive competitive advantage to having access to mammals and be able to consume raw milk

and all of its consumables, all of its different varieties of products it created. And if you got really hungry, you could always eat the animal itself. So it's a long history of mankind thriving. In fact, the UC Davis researchers, the medical archeologists said it was one of the big deciding factors

that allowed mankind to really thrive and prevail over challenges was access to mammalian milk, domesticated milk. Remember that the Maasai, they're black in Kenya. They went all the marathon races. They're six foot three years old, six foot three, six foot four, you know, tall, very, very strong and thin with perfect teeth.

They drink raw milk, but they do not have the lactose intolerance gene. They don't have a lactase persistence gene, but they drink raw milk all day long. No problem with lactose intolerance. And that's their preferred food, that and raw blood, right? So that lactose intolerance thing is basically a phony story.

And I call it racist because what it does is says, you're something wrong with you. You've got a deficiency and you're too black or you're too Asian or whatever because only us white people in North Europe have the lactase persistence gene. Well, I call bullshit on that 100% because the Asians in Mongolia drink Amer's milk all day long, kefir, no problem with lactose intolerance whatsoever and thriving. And so it's interesting to note that raw milk is a universal

food for everybody, because it has all the elements to digest itself in itself. It's a whole food nutrition. It has the bacteria that makes lactase for you in the presence of lactose sugar. So the biodiversity of bacteria, those are the prebiotics, excuse me, the probiotics that are fed by the prebiotic, which is lactose sugar. And the science is very profound on that. Dr. Danielle Lamay came out with a big research article

on this two years ago and introduced it. So lactose intolerance is an issue of pasteurization intolerance. It is not a problem with you. Your body is just smart enough to realize, by the way, there's some things missing in my food and I can't digest the lactose. I need all of the elements in my food, not part of them. So lactose intolerance is a phony story to try to sell a product which has been highly processed. And I'll

close this comment by saying Dr. Bruce German, who's a fantastic mentor of mine from UC Davis, founded the International Milk Genomics Consortium. He said, pasteurization is an 18th century solution to an 18th century problem. We can do a hell, hell, a whole lot better. And that's exactly what we're doing in the raw milk movement is we're doing a lot better. And we're keeping out the pathogens by doing clean operations and having the diversity of wild bacteria

That's so important to really shore up our immune system and keep it biologically diverse So we have antibodies and protection for more diversity which gives us that ability to adapt from all threats and be resilient So very interesting story about lactose intolerance If you drink raw milk and you allow your gut to acclimate, you don't have lactose intolerance, even if you do not have a lactase persistence gene. All right, y'all, quick break. Did you know that there is one phase of sleep that almost everyone fails to get enough of and that this one phase of sleep is responsible for most of your body's daily rejuvenation, repair, controlling hunger and weight loss hormones, boosting energy and so much I'm talking

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you subscribe, not only will you get an amazing discount and free gifts, you will make sure that your monthly supply is guaranteed. I've heard on several occasion, and who knows? It's on the internet, but I have heard Louis Pasteur famously on his deathbed saying that he thinks he got it wrong, that he thinks he spent the bulk of his life on germ theory and the need to pasteurize and cook things, cook the germs out as an incorrect modality. Whether that's true or not, it certainly seems to

be the case now when we look at the overwhelming evidence in support of raw milk. I think about things like that and it's just kind of like where would we be on a timeline if things had shifted? Where would our health be? How much different would it be on a timeline? You know if things that had shifted where would our health be? How much different would it be had things been these things not been ostracized from the jump and we had you know The bulk of milk coming from Ross Local good stuff, you know. Well interesting to note you said that because in 1893 1893 is 130 years ago. There was a branch in the road There was the kind of idea that was brought in by Strauss,

Nathan Strauss, which was pasteurization. They called it, it was called, I can't remember now. I can't remember. Anyways, early form of pasteurization was brought in in 1893. That same year, Dr. Henry Coit, it was called parboiling. That's the word I was looking for. Parboiling was the same as pasteurization. You basically cooked the heck out of dirty milk and it killed fewer people. That's true. Well, here's the thing. Dr. Henry Quoit, who was a medical doctor at the time, he founded the American Association of Medical Milk Commissions, the AAMMC. They were founded in 1893. Their last dairy that was certified by the AAMMC was in, was Altadena.

And that went out of business in 1999. So it was literally 106 years of certified raw milk. That milk was on the Titanic. That milk was in the White House. That milk was going to the Mayo Clinic to heal people. That milk was not easy to produce, but it was very, very clean. It was tested.

It was chilled fairly quickly, and it had all the good stuff in it without bad bacteria. So it's interesting that unfortunately industrial pressures and ignorance and pharmaceutical pressures have oppressed the whole history and lineage of the AAMMC. So very, very interesting to see that history of 106 years, which we now at the Raw Milk Institute continue to support with our modern standards, which are very similar to what the AAMC, but with a modern twist because we have more technology now. Yeah, that makes sense. I think, you know, for me, a lot of there's tons of books on how to heal the gut, but I think some of the biggest, most know, for me, a lot of there's tons of books on how to heal the gut. But I think some of the biggest most important ones for me were

aside from bone broth. Yes. Where's the reintroduction of high quality dairy and that was through kefir that was through raw milk and that was through, you know, different raw cheeses as well, especially because you know for people that complain about lactose there are cheeses that are relatively lactose free that you can get into. And if they're on the raw side, you can start to repopulate the gut with good guys, get the body used to taking in enzymes like this and start to shape it in a way

where gradually you can increase and then all of a sudden you have no issues with lactose. What are some of the methods that you've seen? Is it just an introduction of small amounts of raw milk to help bridge people back? How do you like to approach that? Well, people come to us and they have severe lactose intolerance.

There's actually two parts of what they call lactose intolerance. True lactose intolerance is the inability to digest lactose. But there was a big study that we helped fund at Stanford University back in 2014. It was very interesting, it was very telling. There was probably more than lactose that was causing problems with digestion.

And I would call it maldigestion because of the elimination and reduction, destruction of functional proteins, which are also having a hard time. The dairy proteins are hard to digest as well. But if the functional proteins, enzymes, the proteases, peptidases are there, then you don't have any problems digesting the protein. Well, the pasteurization, the heat kills off

and neutralizes and inactivates these functional protein enzymes. So in a pasteurized product, you have all these digestion issues with proteins, as well as lactose. So here's the example of a study. They got over 400, I believe it was 400 people that volunteered because they said,

I have a problem digesting pasteurized milk. And so they came in for the survey and out of those 400 people, I think it was, only 30 of them got into the study because they didn't have lactose intolerance. They had something else that caused them pain on digesting pasteurized milk. And the conclusion was it was maldigestion of proteins. Yes, there was some severely lactose intolerant. 16 of them actually got into the study, so it was only a cohort of 16 people out of 400.

But the bottom line was that over a two week period of time with digesting or ingesting lack of raw milk, their HBP, the hydrogen breath test, went from spiking to being way down low. So it was about a two and a half week curve for the production of nitrogen to be actually rounded off and coming back. That's severely lactose intolerant people.

Most people aren't like that at all. So I would say it's not only lactose intolerance, but it's also protein digestion challenges, because the enzymes that help digest the proteins are missing. Those are the functional enzymes like protease and peptidase and all those kinds of things. So it's a complex question, but raw milk actually solves the whole thing. I would suggest that raw milk kefir is the first step because it's extremely probiotic

and very diverse and partially already digested, it's fermented already. And I would make smoothies with that, with whatever you like, strawberries, blueberries, bone broth extract stuff, put it in there, whatever you want, avocados, raw egg, all that stuff, the high quality protein and good fats, and good sugars too with good flavors

like berries might provide or raw honey or that makes a gut healing incredible concoction that's delicious that knocks out your hunger pain and completely and absolutely suppresses inflammation in your gut and makes things go better real quick. I love that. My wife intuitively has made shakes for the kids like that since they were little.

Oh, great. With Kiefer, we've got our own honeybees here. We don't do our own dairy yet, but I'm excited to see if, you know, it's actually harder than I thought getting some local Jersey cows, but we wanna get some on deck and see if we can just have a couple, you know,

just a couple for us and the farm families that work here. But yeah, she's throwing kefir, bone broth collagen, organic berries, and a little bit of our local honey. And the kids, everyone loves it. She'll even make popsicles with it. You know, I'm not sure how that influences, you know, if it breaks down anything by freezing it, but the popsicles taste phenomenal. And, you know, nobody has issues with all the kids look forward to having popsicles when they come over because they're these whole food amazing popsicles that are homemade. Well, Kyle, freezing, good news on freezing.

It generally does not have much of an effect on anything. Remember, you can bring life forward with frozen spurnum, right? So freezing, frozen eggs. So freezing is generally very soft on what we're talking about here. Now long term freezing causes a little bit of an oxidation problem if you do it for like six months, but for the most part, the ice crystals tend to expand in frozen milk and pushes a little bit on the butterfat globule, but it doesn't actually hurt or destroy

them. It just kind of disforms them. And that's why they like to aggregate and make ice cream. But freezing is a great solution to raw milk to make it available to you and all the popsicles is a fantastic thing for kids. I love it. Very cool. Very cool. I like that so much. What are some of the things that you're looking into now? You know, you travel the world, you speak at these conferences. I, having rabbit-holed health and wellness for the last 15, 20 years, understand fully what you're up against when it comes to the way things are funded. I think anybody who paid attention from 2020 onwards started to be able to see what the NIH was up to, what the CDC was up to, and how things

are in large part, unfortunately, bought and paid for. But this push for Whole Foods and understanding that there is a miracle in nature already at hand, what are some of the things that you're looking forward to studying or hearing about amongst colleagues and different people in the field? All right, guys, quick break to tell you about Viah. Viahhemp.com is phenomenal. If you're 21 and up, treat break to tell you about VIA. VIAHEMP.com is phenomenal.

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free shipping on all orders, over 100 bucks. And if you're new to Viya, get a free gift of your choice. After you purchase, they ask you, where you heard about them, please support our show and tell them that Kyle Kingsbury sent you. Enhance your everyday with Viya. Well, if we're such a liability ridden country where anybody gets sick and they sue the farmer, what we're doing is enhancing the ability for farmers to do on-farm testing of pathogens

so that when they release their milk, they know what's in it. And that really, really takes the complete argument away from anybody that would say anything negative about E. coli or Listeria or Campylobacter or salmonella in raw milk, which has been kind of the dark side of raw milk over the years. It's very rare, but it can happen. Well, what you can do, and now there's a lab called Spec Labs out of Richmond that we've been working with

for five years now. They've actually released an on-farm test, which you get data back in 12 hours, to know whether there's pathogenic bacteria in your raw milk. And that's powerful. We've been doing pathogen testing now for a year with our own PCR lab at the Quant5 studio from Thermo Fisher and a full-time microbiologist on staff, testing every batch multiple times in cows and all kinds of stuff, just make sure that there's never a pathogenic bacteria and we don't take out pathogens we just make sure they never enter right so there's

no way to kill a pathogen in raw milk because you're gonna kill off the beneficial good bacteria as well a very broad base of hundreds of different kinds of bacteria at low levels in raw milk which are fantastic for your gut but you don't want to have is you don't want to have E. coli 015 at low levels in raw milk, which are fantastic for your gut. But you don't want to have, is you don't want to have E. coli 0157H7 in your milk for somebody who's compromised, somebody who's missing their their acrimantic bacteria in their gut microbiome mucosal lining.

The mucosal lining is critical in the gut, but in America that mucosal lining is either missing or very thin. If you have a thick mucosal lining, the odds of getting sick from a pathogen are near zero. But the bottom line is, if you don't have one, it goes up substantially because these pathogens can go directly to the tissues of the intestinal wall and they're not blocked by the mucosal lining.

So raw milk builds back that mucosal lining, but in the world we're in now, where people are trying to build back their immune systems from where it's been beaten up so hard, you have all these compromised guts, you want to make sure that milk is completely pathogen free. And that's why we go about testing. And we're teaching other farmers how to do testing. Right now there's over 60 on-farm labs functioning across America to make sure that milk comes out really safe, clean, and low risk.

And the farmer knows about it. So we're really pushing high technology to marry up with mother nature, and it's working great. That's incredible. I love, yeah, it really puts any arguments to bed in terms of people coming from kind of just the mainstream approach. I don't want to say anything bad about that,

but you're never gonna hear about, I shouldn't say never, you're not likely to hear about the benefits of raw milk on any major news station, right? You're just not because, you know, it's brought to you by Pfizer over and over again, right? So, you know what I'm getting at? So, I mean, I just think that this is a really cool thing because if somebody is coming, you know, in particular, you know, older people who didn't grow up on a farm, right, they're going to be hook, linen and sinker for city living,

for whatever's been told to them, taught to them. They're gonna still look at a food pyramid and think this is the way it's supposed to be. Six to eight servings of grain, you know, one or two servings of pasteurized dairy, that kind of thing, if I can tolerate it. But you know, this idea that we can for sure let somebody know with 100% certainty that they're gonna take in

is only beneficial for them. There's nothing that can potentially hurt them. And at the same time, all these benefits are gonna take place in that process. I think that's really cool. In 2021, there was a study that was done funded by the National Dairy Council. Now these are the pasteurized milk guys, right?

These are pasteurized milk guys, get millions of dollars in every year to do studies. They did the study at Cornell University. So it's not Mark Mac, be talking about the study. This is the Cornell University and the National Dairy Council. Big, big time people, right? Well, they studied raw milk and,

well, they didn't actually call it raw milk. They called it unprocessed milk, unprocessed milk. They didn't have the guts to call it raw. That raw is our word, they hate to use our words. But they said the bioactives found in unprocessed milk. Those bioactives are so powerful because they said after COVID, people were seeking out these bioactives found in raw milk

or in unprocessed milk and were seeking them out. What they were trying to do was get processors to go into raw milk and extract them using all this high technology, extremely expensive stuff, to make a new pill or potion that did all the things we talked about, which was anti-inflammatory, anti-virus, good for mineralization, good bone building, good for the brain, good for the gut, all these things we're talking about. And the problem was it didn't work because when you took the bioactives out of their matrix, the bioactives actually worked on

other bioactives. They all worked together so you couldn't have just a jar of alkaline phosphatase. That alkaline phosphatase worked with the other things in the milk to actually be effective to be anti-inflammatory. So Mother Nature's got it right and the some of the parts are greater than the individual parts. And so at this point, that study is very profound because it came out saying there are incredible things found in unprocessed milk that are destroyed

by pasteurization that are found only in unprocessed milk, i.e. raw milk. So they came, they know about it. The world knows about it. It's obvious as hell. And now, you know, RFK bless his heart. He hasn't come out with any policy changes yet. He actually identified and recruited me last summer

to be an advisor to the FDA. Well, he hasn't called me yet. He gave me a text in February saying when Dr. Macri was confirmed that they had me in to talk and establish standards and guidance and policies to support raw milk at the FDA. I think that was a bridge too far because there's so much money and so much policy and so much dogma for literally 100 years at the FDA

to hate raw milk and to suppress the certified raw milk, the AAMC, where there's a war with the FDA for many, many years. So I think this is a little bit of a bridge. I'll say in closing to this little chapter is they may have the guns and the money, but I got the truth in the moms. And I'll take the truth in the moms any day

because the dollar voting in our markets show clearly where the truth is and how kids are being fed and families are being nourished. And I'll take that every day. And it's interesting that at some point in time, you wake up one morning and say, you know, we won that war But I can't tell exactly what we did

but we did and that's what's happening right now is that the Proponents of evidence and the consumers saying we want raw milk and the market building and the dollar voting is pointing directly to the truth I love that that's that's that's inspiring for damn sure and that's so cool that Bobby had reached out to you talk a bit about where you see or where can, I'm sorry, let me rephrase this. I've talked a little bit about, I think it's getrealmilk.com. That's on Westin A Price. Where can people, based on their state, because state legislature is different everywhere and it's pretty ridiculous, right? I mean, I think it's one of the dumbest things I would I would hate to live in a state where I'd have to jump through hoops to get it but it appears in most states even though

you might have to jump through some hoops you can get it where do you recommend people find and source their local raw milk? Three things I would go to get raw milk or real milk or get raw milk.com ork.com, which is something that the Westgate Price has done fantastically. They've done a great job of identifying raw milk sources around the world. rawmilkinstitute.org is probably the cream of the crop if you can get those because they're doing all on-farm testing. But even the Amish, I have to hand it to them, Dutch Meadows and Millers and others, Edwin Schenkck he's not Amish but he's Mennonite they're all testing their milk and they've got the English helping

them so they're creating sorshims to actually help them stay honest to their religious sect but at the same time they're doing testing with coliform testings on farm which is really powerful so I think at this point real milk.com get raw milk.com raw milk Institute dot o RG in California You can go to raw farm USA dot com and you can find out the closest store to you very easily But yeah Every state is kind of got their own chaotic mess of legal illegal or pseudo legal Cowshare whenever Texas has come along

I think a few more years are gonna have it retail stores But retail stores. But at this point, you have to go to on-farm sales only in Texas. Online sales only, huh? Yeah, I've noticed coming from California that I could buy certain things. I remember at Sprouts would have raw milk or Whole Foods had raw milk for a while. Something happened where they ended up pulling it from the shelves in Whole Foods, but they still had it available at Sprouts. So I'd get it there. And then when I came out to Texas,

I couldn't find it in grocery stores, but we've become buddies and they've got delivery services and things like that. So, and I've never seen happier cows in my life than when I went to this farm and saw these cows on rolling green pastures coming right up to us to snuggle up. They're the friendliest cows I've never seen happier cows in my life than when I went to this farm and saw these cows on rolling green pastures Coming right up to us to snuggle up them the friendliest cows I've ever seen it was unreal just the happiest animals All right guys one last quick break to tell you about lucy.co

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it is possibly the most awesome chemical out of all chemicals ever created by God herself Pachamama all the glory that is found in this divine creation, you can figure it out for yourself when you work with nicotine. It is that frickin good. It is revered across all continents, across all generations, across all time and space. If aliens have made their way here, they're using nicotine and maybe DMT. But I'm telling you right now, nicotine is a part of the equation. Nicotine is awesome. Again, I had, I talked about this a week ago, but I had Dr. Brian Artis on the podcast.

Google Dr. Brian Artis and nicotine and review everything this dude has to say about it. I'm just gonna say that there. All right, and now back to the podcast. Well, in Texas, it's on farm. I didn't mean to say online, it's on farm sales. You may be able to do an online ordering, but it's on farm or delivered only. You can't find it in retail stores. In California, it's carried in over 500 stores throughout the state of California. Sprouts has got 130 stores or so throughout California. And they're our top seller. They sell about 60% of our milk there. We have 75,000 gallons of milk being produced a week

from our two dairy operations with our pathogen lab and pastures and all this stuff. So we got it going on here in California, but we're helping other states make evolution. We just helped change the laws in Delaware. We just changed the laws in Iowa and Montana a couple years ago. So there are laws changing in state by state now to allow more access to raw milk. And what we do is support the farmers so they can really have good high standards and know how to use those standards. They're well trained and do testing. Well, that's so cool. Well, I'm checking out this rawmilkinstitute.org. I'll link to all three of those in the show notes for people. I really appreciate your time. Where can people get a hold of you if they've got questions? Where can people follow along?

And where can people purchase anything that you've got coming up? Unfortunately, I have been banned personally from having my own website. I can't have my own podcast. I cannot have my own YouTube or any social platform by the FDA. Back in 2010, they identified me as a threat. And they put me under a court decree because of something I said. What I did was I put on our website links to the studies done in Europe. And they were all NIH, FDA, CDC links showing the studies on the benefits of raw milk.

And I put that on our website. And they said that because I had done that, I created a new drug because I had made a medical claim. So I am under a, oh, it's an outrageous thing, but I just take that as a mantle of a warrior's mantle at this point and careless. Bottom line is you have to go to people like yourself to get my information because I cannot speak on my own behalf.

I have to go through some third party can speak about interview me all day long and I have a first amendment right and that's fine. My first amendment rights are still intact. But when it comes to ability to speak on my own behalf, I cannot do that. So rawmilkinstitute.org is a fantastic place to go see the production standards and look at the food safety plans, the bacteria counts, the training and questions and answers. Fantastic place. You can go to realmilk.com, which is a fantastic place to find out where local raw milk is found.

West state Price is a good job as well. And then the Get Raw Milk people do a great job of identifying farmers around the world. So it's it's at this point, if you know, let's get a hold of me, Mark at raw milk Institute dot org mark at raw milk Institute dot org. That's how you get a hold of me. And I'll talk to anybody anytime I'm very much into education. And I think that this is a higher purpose calling than just being a money making operation. We have to serve humanity. And that's what I'm about doing. That's what I'm doing. Well, thank you so much for your time, brother. It's been excellent having you on, Mark.

And we'll do it again down the road. Thank you, Kyle. God bless you. Take care. God bless you.