Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #434 Navigating Life from Athletics to Parenthood w/ Mike Salemi

Episode Date: November 29, 2025

In this podcast, Kyle welcomes back Mike Salemi. They catch up on significant developments in Mike's life, including his journey into fatherhood and personal growth through education and fitness. Mike shares the crucial transition from his family business to pursuing his passions, which led him to study under Paul Chek. He discusses the profound influence of Paul’s teachings on his multifaceted development, from strength and conditioning to emotional and spiritual well-being. Mike talks about the impact of different training regimens, meditation, and men's work. He highlights a transformative moment in a sweat lodge where he envisioned his future as a father. The conversation also delves into his successful partnership with his wife Lauren, their shared journey towards parenthood, and the value of fatherhood. Mike's story underscores the importance of balance between work, personal growth, and family life.   Mike Salemi is a kettlebell world champion, breathwork facilitator, high-performance coach, and men’s leadership guide. With a background in elite strength training and somatic work, he helps driven people build energy, deepen focus, and develop steady vitality in work and life. From competitive sport to holistic coaching, Mike’s path was shaped by both personal challenge and a long search for grounded strength. His approach brings together breathwork, mindful movement, nervous system training, and conscious leadership. He supports men, athletes, first responders, and high performers in becoming clear, capable, and purposeful leaders—on the field, at work, and at home.   Connect with Mike here: Instagram Men of Movement Retreat   From Kyle: The Community is coming! Click here to learn more   Our Sponsors: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to Lucy.co/KKP and use promo code (KKP) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers FREE SHIPPING and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. To SUPERCHARGE YOUR STEM CELLS, go to qualialife.com/kyle15 for up to 50% off, and use code KYLE15 for an additional 15%. Go to tonum.com/KKP, use the code KKP, and get 10% off your first order of Nouro. These are the b3 bands. They are amazing, I highly recommend incorporating them into your movement practice.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Kyle-Kingsbury Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!

Welcome to today's podcast. We have the return of my boy, Mike Salemi. Salami Salemi, as they used to call him. Nobody calls him that anymore. He's, well, I'd say he's too much of a savage, but he's too much of a sweetie, honestly. Salemi is somebody who I met years ago. I'll actually talk about this because it's been so long since we've podcasted together. Mike is a father now.

He has a three-year-old. I think the last time I saw Mike, his little boy was in the womb. So lots of cool shit to catch up on in this one. We deep dive Mike's background because he has such a wealth of knowledge. in Czech's educational system as well as many others, and he's just been on a really cool trajectory in life. I adore Mike. He's a dear brother and a friend of mine until the end, and I think this podcast was awesome. I loved getting to learn more about him in this one. Share this with friends, support our sponsors. They make the show possible. I'm not further ado, my brother, Mike,

so let me. Welcome back to the podcast, brother. It has been fucking ages. It really has. It's been what, you know, usually we say, like, it's been too long since I've seen you, but no, actually, legitimately been way too long, almost three years, I think. Yeah, we used to see each other way more often. Even being here in Austin, you know, I think you're traveling more. One thing that I really, you know, what resonate with, though, is the fact that you're now a father, you know, and I didn't travel. I traveled a lot when Bear was young, only child, first child kind of thing. And being from California and then moving here, my family always wanted to see Bear. So if we wanted to go out of the country or something like that, we'd fly Bear home to the Bay. He'd hang with my mom and my

dad and my sister and all his cousins and we'd go to toulomb or somewhere you know with fit or service and so it always felt like it was the right thing it felt awesome looking back he was way too young for that and so when we had wolf five you know he was five we had wolf it was like there was like a very strong grounding cord just immediately implanted in me that was like it was undeniable like an intuition of you i'm not going anywhere until she's three years old and then there it'll just be for work and um that's worked out really well so anyways that resonates fully with me why we wouldn't see each other why you would hunker down and it is the right thing you know there are some things i had to learn the hard way but um there's no replacing dad there is no

fucking replacement for that whatsoever no replacing mom either right and you know like if you when you have uh when you're watching the kids for a day and mom's getting a break how many times they bring up when's mommy coming home you're like listen here this is daddy day damn you're going to enjoy this time i'm going to buy a pizza and we're going to watch movies and come on any of you though um no replacing them but yeah it's it's a funny thing when we think of you know i use gary van der chock gary v as an example because he he was on mark bell's podcast and he was talking about you know in parenting parenting is like a baseball game you've got her whole life to be this kid's dad and everyone's trying to win the game in the first three innings

That's not baseball. And you're like, right. Everyone's trying to win the game in the first three innings. But it isn't baseball. The first three innings are fucking loaded. That's going to pattern them for the rest of their lives. They are literal sponges till they're seven years old. Then they're a different kind of sponge from seven to 14.

Then 14 to 21, another one. And then the fourth seven year cycle before a man's brain is even complete is 21 to 28. Like you would damn sure better load those first innings with plenty of dad time. And there's no replacing that. You can't just say like, oh, my legacy is what I'm going to leave an X amount dollars for my son he'll understand why later and then he'll model that for his kids it's like i'm not buying that so it's really cool when dad's hunkered down and um like i said i didn't do that perfectly initially but it it became super apparent to me um through just my wife talking to me

about bear you know when i'd be out of town things like that it'd be like oh okay you know i should be here and we had a mushroom journey and it was like super evident and i was like all right I'm not going to, I'm not going to just venture off for, for, you know, my own pleasure or leisure, not whether that young. And it's also influenced, you know, my work schedule, right? I certainly work less than I could for more income to spend that with my family. I want to spend that time with my family. It's that stuff you can't get back, you know.

But let's chat here. I mean, let's, quick, quick rundown of who you are. I'll let you say it because I could list some shit, but I always love, like, a personal bio um and and uh you've done so much like you really have like you're you have excellency in so many different fields it's really cool so remind the listeners of who you are and we can dive into some some fun shit like parenting and the rest yeah i mean the parenting piece for sure i'm excited to dive into that that's so much of just where my heart is where my head is it's put the interesting thing is is it put together so many the puzzle pieces of

why all of the things that happened before this point now actually makes sense. Like if you were asking me when I was, so as an athlete, as a young kid, just to backtrack, I grew up as a gymnast as a young age, had the one thing that I would say I'm incredibly fortunate, whether it was just due to proximity, fate, whatever it is, I've just really been around some amazing coaches. So when I was a gymnast as a young age, my coach was two-time Olympian from Bulgaria, Krasmir Dunev. So there's obviously the teaching components of great technique from someone who grew up in the Soviet system, everything that they learned. That's really where I found my love for strength and conditioning was on Friday conditioning sessions. Three hour long sessions,

he would just beat us down. And at the same time, I actually love the conditioning more than I actually enjoyed the gymnastics. But you actually have the technical skills, which is one piece from a coach. but the more that I'm learning, and this is one thing for sure that exuded from Paul, is there's the teachings themselves, but even, which I'll share later about my work with Check, but honestly, most of the lessons that I got was just being in his energy, observing how he moved, how he talked, how I felt around him, how grounded, how just intensely present he would be, and just a clear channel. And so when I go back to a young age, Krasmur Duda, I mean, the dude looked like a freaking just this masterpiece of a statue was just jacked on jacked. And at that age, you know, we as young kids were like, Krasmer, how do we look like you? How can we become you? We're like nine, ten years old.

And at that age, he says, don't ever eat fast food. Stop eating fast food. Because he knew we're all kids. We're all going down the street to McDonald's, et cetera. And at that point, I mean, you know where I live in Foster City. you know the area, at that age, right down my street, you had McDonald's, at the time, McDonald's, Carl's Jr., Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell, all out of four, right, this little square.

And so every day, not every day, but multiple times a week, and especially on Wednesdays and Fridays, we would all go there with our buddies. And, I mean, I could eat at that point, shit, like three to four Big Macs, no problem. So I'm just thinking of Carl's Jr.'s menu, you had like the double Western vacant cheeseburger, the superstar with cheese. the criss-cut fries with the buttermilk ranch and the fried zucchini. That was my move every time I went. One of each of those double burgers, the fries, and the zucchini.

Dude, I was so upset going back. Worst decision they ever made was to partner with Green Burrito. I was like, what is this? This is way back. What a terrible decision? What is the Green Burrito? But, you know, he told me that. I was like, I took it really seriously.

So I came home and I was like, Mom, Dad, like, I'm done with fast food. And they're like, what? And I was like, yeah, that's it, I'm done. And my personality has always been, for the most part, really focused, really disciplined. I mean, my dad, immigrant from Sicily, manual labor, most of his life until the later years. And so that hardworking mentality is just what I, that was what I saw in terms of what does it mean to be a man. And so Krasmir was a huge influence early on. Then I got into competitive powerlifting for almost 10 years, you know, trade for not too long, about a month at West Side Bar.

Bell when I was at my peak was squatting 605, deadlifting 615, 473, 473, 478 on the bench, all drug-free. Yeah, 473. Yeah, 178 pounds, all drug-free. God, I got 405 was my highest point on bench press, and I was juiced to the gills, like to the fucking gills. And 268 pounds, too, right, playing defensive line. That was like my peak strength.

That's wild. Yeah, so that, I mean, that's, you know, I dove all into that for almost 10 years, spent a month, I was studying West Side Barbell stuff all along the way, got to spend a month with Louis, was training double days with Chuck Vogelpole and all the other guys there. And so being in that environment, that like crucible, I remember, dude, it was so intense. I remember there was this one, because there was visitors all the time coming in. And I remember there was this one big dude, somewhat cocky. And like, you don't, I mean, everyone there's got their own ego. their own chip on their shoulder but this dude thought he was the shit and literally by the end of the session he was on his back laid out and i don't know what he said disrespectful or what but louis just like get the fuck out of here like just get the fuck out of here and i was just i was so quiet especially at that time i was like just keep your head down just do the lifts and funny story too you know they couldn't at that point they couldn't find a training partner for vocal pole like they were just trying to find who could train with this guy so they threw me in a deadlift

with them. And they're just using 50 kilo plates, so 110 pounds on each side. So we're doing rack pulls. And I got up to 660. I think it was around knee height. And that was my last lift and I was just done. And then that was, I got three attempts in. It was just one plate, two plate, three paid or six whatever. And he kept going to like 900. And it was just, you know, just such an intense upbringing. But being around great people, being around great mentors, keeping my head down listening more than I talked actually multiple times more that served me super well and then without going through all of it uh in college did a little bit of Olympic weightlifting under Jim Schmitz who was our three-time US Olympic coach and then got into almost 10 years of kettlebell

sport and then won a world championship in that 2017 was a master of sport which is like an elite ranking in both the long cycle which is a 10 minute clean and jerk unbroken with 232 kilo bells and then also in the biathlon, which is a 10 minute double bell jerk overhead with 10 minutes on the single bell snatch. So athletics has been the most of my life. And then the last eight or so years, it's been taking that that foundation and also the work that I've done with Paul because Paul's been like the hugest teacher for, I know both you and I, but he's really his philosophy, which I started studying at 17, is where I started bridging the gap between physical strength, which most, I mean, that was my entrance, and I know for you as well in many

regards, but also developing the other types of strength that we as men absolutely need. So mental strength, emotional strength, spiritual strength, and then relational strength, especially now being a Papa. So the last eight years has been to take that foundation and then slowly start creating my version or my lens and through my heart of how to support men out there. that's fucking fantastic that was the speed route I like that

that was fantastic I'm happy I asked I held it it's funny because I was thinking about trying to recap and then I was like no no no

it's been a long time and there's stuff I didn't know that you were at and I'm sure I've heard you say it before but got the west side barbedo crew for people that don't know

power lifting and the sport itself like they were some of the most influential right they changed the game my guy Jesse Burdick who I got to train

with post fight career you know he's buddy He introduced me to Dr. Kelly Strette, becoming a supple leopard, Mark Bell. He introduced me all these guys. And, you know, he had trained some freaks like Henry Sehudo, you know, like he was, he was just an awesome guy. But he had a big influence from West Side.

And so a lot of our sets and rep schemes were based on that, right? Where you're hitting like a gang of doubles working your way up at a deficit or something like that. And then you'd finish with two arm wraps, you know, and just so you'd get this beautiful blend of pure power, pure strength. and then you get a burnout. You know, you're going to get hypertrophy. You're going to get sore.

You're going to get all the other endurance pieces from that. And so it was kind of, it was interesting to me to see that there. I was like, oh, these guys are covering all the bases in a workout, right? But it's not just like doing, you know, four sets of tent. That doesn't cover all the bases. That'll build muscle. But it's not going to make you a better athlete, right? It's not going to push you in the ways that you need to be pushed.

I was really impressed to see how these guys do it. Matt Brown from the UFC, fought at 185. I got to meet on the tour for the troops. he was training there a bunch back in the day and he looked like he was a 185 pounder thin like 6-1 but a freak freak strength freak power in his hands you know you could just smoke dudes and so I always appreciated that you know like wow what a cool what a cool place but thinking of all it was intense at jesse's but it was also like big family you know like we're all smiles and shit and um we had a guy jeremy avila who was like early 20s and um he was just a freak dude like he

He was a football player, but he's the most explosive white guy I've ever seen, the most fast twitch I've ever seen in a white person. And my college football coach, who was one of my main influences in strength, Coach House, he was the head coach of the Carolina Panthers. And his assistant from ASU, coach Ui, Mark Guiyama, was the head strength coach for the 49ers. And they played each other in San Francisco. So that week, both my old coaches came in to Jesse's place, and we all got to lift together. and it was wild

and so we're doing a deadlift competition oohie's like fuck you guys I'm not I'm not getting in on that he's like a short guy but super strong I'm like what's the matter whoie why don't you guys I'm not I'm gonna get in the pissing contest

you guys have fun somebody's gonna get hurt and so he does the light workout on the side of like four sets of 20 Astegras squats with 405 that was his light workout four sets of 20 Astrogras squats with 405

and I mean legit Astegra I was like damn this guy's not even getting it tired he's just like I want to do a little pump kind of thing right so that tells you his strength i built up to i don't know 575 or something like that and i that was it like i know i was going to hurt myself and so it was like oh that's all i got 550 somewhere around there 555 and um one of my old teammates bret knee neighbor he could pull 600 pounds so it's

cool to watch him then this kid jeremy avila comes over and he was one of those guys who just kept adding plates and so like that that image that i got of the guy who keeps going up was like this is jeremy jeremy just kept going up and he had like uh 800 plus pounds on the bar but the guy who went previous you know dropped the weight and it kind of was out of the position he wanted it to be he was a sumo guy right so he loads he gets he gets his feet in the right position he comes over the bar and he shakes it like a rag doll on the ground to get it in a position like ah and goes ding ding ding ding ding ding and then stops right where he wanted it to be and house looks at me goes kingsbury if that doesn't get you dick hard nothing

will i was like yes like that's a really only get in a weight room where people like Like, just impressively strong, you know? And so I love that story. That's a super cool. Because, I mean, you know, when we met, you were the kettlebell guy. Right. You know, that was like in large part what people knew about you. And then, you know, like most, not like, there's a few great athletes who continue to expand on their knowledge.

And it's something I've always appreciated about you, right? And like you've done a lot of training. Is it Ivan? What's the? Ivan Ivanov. Yeah, Ivan Ivanov. Yeah. It's like the Bulgarian bags.

You brought that. I mean, on it made a knockoff version. based on all the training you were doing there. So such a cool thing to see, you know, like the search for excellence in so many different areas has been really cool to watch, brother. It's been, I mean, there's, there is that pursuit of excellence, which I do think is such a deep part of me, but then everything else that comes with it. Like that's in many regards how I met you.

We met at Paleo Effects when that first one would mind pump and you connected and then that connected you to Aubrey, but the reason why I got connected with them is I knew Sal briefly from years before, but I had reached out to them and I had helped them on one of their kettlebell programs. And then from there, we went to Paleo Effects, and I got to hang out with them. So the community and the circle of people, I don't know if I would have realized it then, but especially now looking back, is actually one of the most beautiful byproducts of that pursuit of excellence and that that having that high standard and then also surrounding ourselves with people who also have their own version of that in many regards like even you know how i look at you as a father

it's like god damn as a family man as a father that was one of the things you know when we do our the podcast where you'll be on my show i was talking to my wife lord who you know and like what we're thinking about like what do we there's so many things we can talk about with kyle and we'll get into that but how you show up as a father and also as a man of community and how you've supported me like many people may or may not know that but like that's what I feel into you it's like yeah you're such a badass physical specimen but also you inspire the hell out of me and that's also why I want to surround not only myself but my son around people like you who hold that high standard but who also have been able to transfer the standard maybe learned in one domain and then transfer

for it into all aspects of life. So that's one thing that I think you and I share. And that's also why I get so much out of being around you and being in your company. Thank you, brother. Yeah, a feeling is mutual. I think of that, like Alex Ruchinsky, is another brother of ours from Czech, who, it's funny. I just saw this post, too.

I hadn't even thought of it. But he would say, you know, a jack of all trades is not, that's not the cutoff to that quote, right? So you know the full version of it? master uh keep going the jack of all trades master of none yeah yeah master of none is still better than a master of one ah i did okay that's how that finishes right but it always gets cut off right and so i was like wow because i always thought i was looked down on myself for being a jack of all trades master of none right right because of the fact that you know even in fighting right like

i i i love striking went to thailand got really good at it got built knockout power finished three fights in under 30 seconds with knees to the belly like there's a there's a And then jiu-jitsu came along. I got my ass stomped at the shark tank by Stefan Bonner. You know, that was like the first time I had brought Tosh out to any fight to watch, like, on a dating level. And, you know, I just get absolutely obliterated and dominated in that fight. And he was, he was teabagging me.

And he went north-south, which was absolutely hilarious in hindsight, just not going for submissions, just trying to, you know, belittle me, big brother me. But it was so effective that it changed the way I looked at jiu-jitsu. Because before I was, like, thinking, like, the old-timers, like, oh, I could hit great takedown offense like Chuck Liddell and the standing bag. That's what's going to pay the most. That's what the fans want to see. And that's what I love doing.

And after that fight, it really shifted. I had a whole new respect for Jiu-Jitsu. And so I can credit Stefan, even though he was a dick, rest in peace, for me pursuing a black belt there. But even when I entered the UFC, it was a white belt when I retired. I was a brown belt. I never played, you know, the sport as a black belt. So got the black belt after. and to your point, I feel like there is, I want a black belt in many things, you know,

and I want a black belt in relationships, right? I want a black belt in parenting as a father. I want a black belt in many other avenues that I think really move the needle on quality of life. And I think you're speaking to that. Not everybody, some people, and this isn't to point the finger at like the greatest of all time in any sport, but look at Michael Jordan, like he's hyper obsessive with other things, golf business, whatever.

From what I've heard, heaven meant the guy, right? And so there's a vigilance, a narrowing of the eyes that allows somebody to get that, to be the greatest of all time, that sometimes doesn't spread out after that. And I don't know, Michael, as a father, any of these things relationship-wise, but I could see the overindulgence in one thing would come at a cost to other things. Even as a fighter, I remember when I retired, I was like, no fighter, I don't, there are selfish fighters most of these guys aren't selfish but the sport itself requires selfishness it absolutely does it requires every second of your time it requires everyone you're around to say yes to every second of

your time going to this thing you know to be in support support of that right like you living eating and drinking and breathing nothing but that so that was an interesting you know phase shift coming out of that all right guys quick break to tell you about what i've been up to This year has been a year of transition for me with a fit for service making huge changes. I've been working to create my own community. I still don't have a name for it yet. That is in the works. I'm brewing on it.

But one of the things that I have come to understand is what this community is about. And so I want to give you a little hint here and let you guys drop in. I'd love to get your feedback. And there's a link at the top of the page here if you guys are interested at all. All right. So join in a transformative journey with our exclusive community where like-minded individuals come together to explore the realms of body, mind, connection. For $150 a month, you'll gain access to a treasure trove of wisdom from hundreds

of podcast guests, a lifetime of learning and human optimization, and the teachings of legends like Paul Check, James Clear, and so many others. Reconnect with your inner compass and discover the freedom, health, and sovereignty that await. Embrace the journey to excellence because we are what we repeatedly do. If that interests you, peep the link in the show notes for the community, and we will get you guys locked in. All right, back to the podcast. When did you get to meet with Paul and when did you start advancing on these other pieces that really do make life worth living and much more enjoyable than sports? Such a good question. Just to that last piece, that element of being hyper successful in one arena or with one focus. And as a result of that, multiple other things, whether it's usually, usually in my experience working with guys, it's hyper success in either formally sports or.

more than likely in business and then as a cost either their health goes to shit or their relationships are shit you know their their their wife feels like a roommate they'll say or i'm going to sleep and we just don't even know how to communicate anymore or my kids my kid my son or my daughter doesn't really look up to me they're afraid you know to to come to me for advice so that is super common and i think the way society is and whatnot what is celebrated is usually the the what everyone sees on the outside. But then when you actually get to talk to these guys, it's like, oh, my God, they're really struggling.

And so at least what I've seen is maybe it's just the circles that I'm in, but guys do want that. They do not want to have to choose between, okay, I'm just the provider. And then that's my main contribution. They want to be to have that transference in more domains. They just don't know how. And they're so bogged down by their own patterning, their own stress response, their nervous system. Even on the outside, they may look like these big kings, but on the inside, they're literally, their fuse is so short to which they trigger themselves into their own patterns of their upbringing.

They just don't have either haven't had it modeled, haven't had the teachers or their environments themselves is literally, you know, they're in their late 30s or 40s, either have a family or want to start a family. family, but all their friend circles are still getting bottle service. Like, you're probably not going to find, probably not going to find the woman that you want for the long term at a club where you're getting bottles. Like, yeah, they could exist, but that's not my first place where I would look, right? And if that's where you're spending your time, don't be surprised at what you're going to get in return. So what you were saying, it just hit a chord because that is so true. And then with Paul specifically, because Paul was really, I mean, he's been a teacher to so many, but I started studying him at 17. I was a strength and conditioning coach at that time and for a good number of years.

And I was so fortunate because the facility I was coaching at had modeled their whole facility after Czech's teachings. Whoa. Which is what? That's pretty far forward thinking, right? Dude, we're talking. So I'm turned to 39, so we're over 20 years ago. So 21, 22 years ago. So to be brought in to strength and conditioning, and that's where I got my start as a strength

and conditioning coach at the collegiate level and D1 level was at that gym because they had the contracts. But I was training the owner of the gym in powerlifting because that's when I was most focused, 17, 18, 19, and that he was teaching me on functional medicine, working and did a lot of checks teachings, gave me how to eat, move, and be healthy. And so I had been exposed to Paul's teachings, but I really didn't. dive headfirst until I believe I was more or less 25-ish. And that's because when I was competing in kettlebell sport, I had an injury in my left forearm that nobody could figure out. It ended up

being a compartment syndrome. And there was multiple different culprits to what was affecting it. But everyone was looking at it through one lens. The nuke or upper cervical was looking at it through just that lens. The rolfer was looking at me through that lens. The neurosomatic therapy me through that lens. The FDN functional diagnostic nutrition through that lens. So it was cranial sacral. I went through every single person, work with him for a good number of months, but there was nothing really addressing the root cause of it. And so when I went to go see him, I actually had talked to him at one of his level two courses at the end, and it wasn't the right time to ask him, but I was in line trying to get his autograph. And I go, Paul, you know, no one could figure this thing out.

I know this isn't the right time, but is there anything you can share on this thing that I've got going on? And he told me he was actually the first person to not promise me he could fix me. He was like, look, I've got an idea what's going on, but I'm not sure if we could get full resolution. And I'd have to fully look through you. We'd have to go through a process. So if you want, submit an application and we'll see if we can get you in. Months go by, I was continually getting close to the master of sport level but falling short because of this injury and that led into a two and a half year journey of every single month flying down to southern california working with him for half a day to two days and so what i what i really learned in that process i mean there was so

many things but i i could give it to him even more now because at that mindset at that age yes i was exposed to holistic teachings but i wanted a fucking win right I wanted to win and then also do so in a way that wasn't going to destroy my body because I felt internally that I was living out of alignment. Like I knew about that living a healthy life wanting to be vital, be strong. Like that was a big core value mind. And yet I was still engaging in the sport and doing so in a way where I was burning out, dealing with injuries, biting my lip and grinding through it,

and then emotionally being a mess at the end of the night. And also before that, I had fungal infection, parasite infections, and H. Pylori, which was causing stomach ulcers. Burning the candle at both ends. So it's like, on the surface, though, you had Mike who had just come out of powerlifting, who had respectable numbers there, and there was still one of the better competitors in the U.S. and kettlebell sport. But if you actually got to know me on a deeper level, like if you really knew me,

like if you really knew what was going on inside and how hard I was on myself and always feeling like, there was something wrong with me or always having this fear of making mistakes, there was a lot under the hood that needed to be addressed. My relationships were challenging before that, intimately, family-wise. So there was a lot there. And so when I went to work with him, I have so much more respect even now looking back because he's still, like he drip, well, I would say a Paul drip feed is not quite like a normal drip feed of disinformation.

So take that with a great assault, but he met me where I was at. Like when I was there, first thing he did, like even before assessing, he's like, let's go in the gym, let's lift. And he's like, I want to fuck, I'm going to, he lifted with me. And I got some hilarious stories if we get there on that. But first thing, he's like, just grab the bells and do what you do, basically in his own words. And I was like, okay. So I grabbed, you know, warmed up to 2.32s. And within the first set, he's like, I got it.

And I was like, in my head, I'm like, no. Like, I wanted to believe it, but truthfully, I had let go of so much of my own power and my own autonomy into others, like, fix me, solve me, heal this. And they said they could. And so many of them, right? The best in each of these different fields, right? With their repertoire, with their athletes, with their resume. And he's like, I think I got it. And I was like, okay. And that led to, you know, so many things being uncovered via, you know, I had, yes, a compartment syndrome in my left arm. I had a pretty significant Atlas axis subluxation. The gut issues that I was having, so the stomach is on the same reflex loop as the left arm.

So we found out with a hand dynamometer when I would drink coffee, for example, it would irritate the gut, and I would actually significantly get weaker in my grip. and I'm Italian like I make freaking you know less now but shit like two to four five espressoes a day and so having that before training to get an upper

not even realizing the connection between the stomach and how it shares the same channel as the left arm and expresses you know pain differently than the muscles and such do so the other thing that was really big was there was a major imbalance and it makes sense

between the tonic and the phasic system So the tonic system of muscles are postural, so more longer endurance, slower twitch. They are a lot more proprioceptors. They're much deeper typically to the spine, a lot of information, but they're responsible for holding us up in a field of gravity, our ability to maintain our posture for long periods of time. That's more endurance focused. The phasic system is like the prime movers, the go muscles, right, that you think that really think elliptic weight lifting, think power lifting, those muscles that are primarily fast-twist.

So because of my athletic background, I could move some heavy weight, but my stabilizer system, like the nut, he would always say the nuts of the bolts of the car, the stabilizers, the tonic system, were way underdeveloped compared to the big mover, so the engine of the car. So I could go like hell really fast and in a straight line, but as soon as the nuts and bolts on the wheels would start chattering, everything would fall apart. so and that led to movement and efficiencies in all sorts of stuff but he really picked that apart and so we focused a lot a lot on rebuilding my technique starting from the ground up like the most embarrassing kyle the most embarrassing exercises like swiss ball stuff that now i've got a lot more respect for like stuff that you would look at or i would look at maybe way back and just be like no way no way but then he would come in the same lifting session and we'd be lifting four plates for sets of 10 off of a four-inch raised aerobic box and we would go back to back. And so the dude could

and he would almost we didn't do sprinting but I've seen him sprint like the guy's a beast. So coming from him it definitely had my ear plus financially when I was investing. I was at the end of my rope. And so it was a two and a half year journey and he really brought me through I would say the rehabilitation phase, but also like the rehabilitation phase of my heart, the rehabilitation phase of what healthy structure looks like, not feeling like I have to earn everything in order to deserve play. He would actually have to program in my program the words unbound play because I was like, what in my head? I'm like, what the fuck's the point? Where's this going? You know? And he'd be like, no, go get some aqua joggers. Go to your local pool.

and I want you to wiggle in the water for 15 minutes. And I'm like, in the pool with the elderly folk wearing floaties. And I'm just like, you know what? Head down, just do it. And that was also an amazing, like water rehabilitation was great for the joints and just to alleviate the amount of pattern overload of the same movement over and over. So there's a long way of saying he met me where I was at, but also introduced me to how to work on.

you know the matters of my heart how to communicate with my family i was in a family business that was lovely and really challenging it wasn't where my heart was um uh relationship stuff so we did a lot of uh what would now be what like an aura rig or any biofeedback would be but we did it all by hand and my measuring pulse and by checking in so he's really been the foundation for i would say most everything that i teach and i've just taken certain things that and studied with other teachers as well of where I'm most excited to go. But, you know, the man's a legend. And now get as a coach that meeting the client where they're at is like, damn, because

he must have had to have used, I would imagine, so much restraint with me. And also, it was like drinking from a fire hose every time. But just really a phenomenal coach, friend and teacher. Yeah, he's in a league of his own. I mean, he's the closest thing I've seen to what would guru translate to in the West, you know, like, just due to the fact that, and I don't just mean spiritually, and there's anything you could dissect into Paul, you would see greatness in, you know, and not just a black belt level, but true mastery. Like, he's a master of so many things. And that's, that's really cool. It's funny because, like, the, you know, the fitness piece or the strength piece was the, you know, the doorway in. My first strength coach in MMA, was a cheque, he cured his cancer through Czech stuff. And awesome guy, Ray DeLessio. And I've told the story before, but, you know, he's like,

I think you've got a gluten intolerance, some kind of intolerance. So we went through, you know, we started doing stuff. And he's like, well, you read how to be healthy. And I'm like, I'm not reading shit. I'm done with books. You know, I'm still a senior at ASU. I'm done reading. I wasn't going to read again.

And he had to watch the flatten your abs forever video on VHS. And I was like, I want to, I'm leaning out. I want a shredded six pack when I fight, you know, coming down from 268. And, you know, that was all on the microbiome, soil health, the type of food you eat, why you got to go all organic, how these things tie into other organ systems, like the radiating of pain, you know, from different things, from different organs. I was floored. You know, I was like, holy shit, that got me a total hookline and sinker.

It had nothing to do with abs. You know, it really didn't, right? It was all the interior stuff. And then I was like, I'll read the book. And when I read that, you know, like, to say it changed my life, like, as an understatement because of the fact that I've read it, you know, at least a dozen times of my wife and filled out the questionnaires differently as you change each time you know things change probably did like a half a dozen parasite detox you know candida detoxes where I'd still

kind of oscillate between eating perfectly in camp and then eating like shit outside of camp because I quote unquote deserved it you know just does still rewarding myself in old unconscious ways and but that I remember the first time reading it you know I get to the zone exercises you know and it heard him talk about Tai Chi and things like that and why he called that zone instead of the chakra exercises. But my first thought was like, I don't need this shit. You know, like, I didn't come here for that. All right, I came here for the primal movement patterns.

I'll fix my food. And it worked so well. It was probably like six times in where I was like, I wonder what these zone exercises feel like, you know? And then I started doing it. I was like, holy shit, dude, I've been sleeping on this the whole time. This was in, all of this is in one book, too, right? That's insane too.

but yeah that just floored and then i always give paul as much credit as i can because the impact that book had on my life and the trajectory and mind you this is at a point like when you're training at the level you're at the slightest change you make you feel if it's going to work or not you know to the degree it's impacting your body via recovery via sleep via strength in the gym the next day so very minor things that most people would overlook if they're only training you know, at 24-hour fitness twice a week, like we could microscopically look into any slight change we make and see the results of that very quickly. And I was still fighting. So like it just changed the whole game. And then that planted the seed, the holy shit moment,

what else is out there in a book, nonfiction that I can read that will have any degree of impact the way this impacted me, right? And that started the whole rabbit hole. So mad credit to Paul for kicking me off on the rabbit hole of health and wellness. and beyond when when for you because you know you're you're training with him realistically he's meeting you where you're at he's not just scaring you off with you know what depends that's above the pay grade right yeah yeah right um but there's kind of like this uh an allurement right of of okay this shit seems weird but it works okay i like that um you know and so you know he's teasing he's breadcrumbing you in to all these other

aspects was there a point where you started to crave was it through relationship. You know, I know the family one was a big one. We've talked about that before, you know, the family business. But at what point did you really start getting hungry as a seeker for this other knowledge? And how did that unfold? All right, guys, quick break to tell you about one of our longest running show of sponsors, lucy.com. Let's level up your nicotine routine with Lucy.

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And it also feels good. That's probably why it's addictive. It feels good. Let's be honest. It feels good to rock nicotine. I love the mint. I rock the 12 mic pouches, but start slow. Work your way up.

There's no reason to jump up. If you jump up to the big boys too quick, you can get it. nauseated. Just go low. Go light. Take more as needed. And it's about a 45-minute window of awesomeness. And there you go. Lucy.com slash KKP for 20% off. It's always been in me to be a seeker. And I think it was, yeah, I was there what I was working with Paul. But I also don't think I was fully ready for it at that time. But I think through the larger challenges that I've experienced in those moments of crisis or in, in those moments of, oh shit, the same thing that has gotten me here is not going to be the same

thing that carries me through this moment of challenge, of difficulty of pain. And so the transition out of the family business, that was arguably my first really big individuation moment, like respecting my family, loving my family, and also recognizing the loyalty that I felt to my family, which still is very deep for me. But there was also something really burning inside that was like, you're not doing what you're here to do. So in many regards, I was out of integrity with my soul, out of integrity of integrity of, integrity of what am I really here to do, what are really my core values, what's my

deeper purpose in life? And as I was getting older, that was starting to emerge at different seasons, it's also changed. Like if you were to ask me at 18, I was like, oh, I'm going to coach strength and conditioning for the rest of my life. And it's like, and then, you know, when I left the family business, I was still coaching. But I was like, no, it's time. It's time not because I even had the idea that I wanted to be a father or have a family. It was like, no, it's time that you actually sum up the courage and represent yourself, represent your heart to your family. And is there a way? And it was not easy. And there was repercussions and a ripple effect on

the family for that, but also I knew that if I was leaving, in many regards, it was the most loving thing that I could do for myself. And even though it stung really bad, and again, impacted the whole family unit, but also now looking back, it also made sense. It made sense that that was the first thing that I would say had me look even deeper in terms of what do you really fucking want like what do you really want mike and not long after that i was still teaching uh primarily movement at the time and i was like man i need to go in the woods like i need to go just get away for a little bit and that was just an internal primarily calling that my wife now encouraged me and so i went in a place called body dude which is right near santa

Cruz. Oh, yeah, Bonnie Dunn. My guy who still live right by there in, uh, what are the hills there? There is, uh, Creek, Bear, not Bear Creek Road. Where was it? God, there's so many great people that live there. Bruce Lipton lives there. Oh, no way.

Bruce Dames lived there. Oh, it's killing me that I'm blanking on it. But yeah, he lived in the San Cruz. He was right by Bonnie Dune. I've been camping there before. I mean, it's an incredible place that's not very well known. Like, magical. Like, my wife lived there for 10 years and so I got to spend some time there or even

more. And so I rented a cabin. And for, I forget if it was three or four days, but for those three or four days, my only objective was to sit, meditate, journal, and then ask myself that question, what do you want? If there were no consequences, not what dad wants, not what mom wants, what would you want to do? And so one of the things that came out was, you know, working with Paul. And I was also, you know, to be fair, at the time, like, I definitely had an interest. I was attending different men's retreats at the time and then started going down the path of plant medicine work a bit and, you know, did a bunch of training and good combo. And so was serving that. So had been also the sensory deprivation take. Like I was floating every single

day for 30 days at one point. Multiple times a week, the place near my house, they had sponsored me. So that place that the take is really where a lot, I would say, now that I think in this moment, I can't even believe that I forgot about that. But that place, they also connected me to different medicine teachers along the way. So that center and then that trip in body dude where it was like, if there were no consequences, because that was so much how I grew up, It's like, who do I got to be to fit into the family or who do I got to be to be the guy? And now it was just, who do you want to be? And I'm sure that anybody listening or most people listening have asked themselves that question, like, what do you want?

But even though I had asked myself, I had never really given myself the space and the fierce intention just to sit. and so what came out of that trip was three things again i'd already be doing some medicine work i'd already been assisting different men's retreats as well was like you know i want to see what it would be like to to lead my own version of men's work my own retreats and that scared the hell out of me like super scared and there was a rush of anxiety there was like oh damn like this is really stretching and i'm still going to fucking do it like I'm still like maybe maybe that anxiety or maybe that nervousness maybe the the micro shakes was like wow like what what could there be for me so there was that piece also came out of that the desire to learn Mongolian throat singing so I went down a whole teaching for a year of every single week with a teacher Mongolian throat singing and then the shamanic drum and I found a teacher in the UK a shaman Yaakov darling con who's a amazing human he's got a whole brand called movement medicine have you heard of him i'll definitely

have to link you up one of the most dude you would love this guy uh read multiple books just grounded solid legit and so hired him he taught me the shamanic drum a guy named jerry walsh that i found on youtube who's got a huge following his wife is excal presema prezima great great medicine singer um and uh so i hired him to teach me mongoli throat singing and then the meds work. The whole theme was, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? Not because the story was, you're a white guy. What do you business? Do you have learning Mongolian throat singing? Like, no, just do it. Just do it and figure out it later. So the seeker, I think, really started when I gave myself permission and individuated from the family business.

and then like I don't know if I ever to that extent fully allowed myself the permission to dream and so that moment was when I left the family business was me fighting for my dream and and then I didn't even realize it but now like when you talked about you mentioned I think earlier like legacy and wealth what do we want to pass on and there's that too but now with my son like I'm thinking seven generations forward and yes do I want him to have stability and security and you know do what he wants to do and have a good financial nut saved but it's more of the lessons that i'm leaving it's more of the the ethics that i've lived the the challenging conversations that i've had regardless of them being challenging but knowing

that they're the right thing to do hit me being as present as possible when i'm home and when i'm away. So ways that I do to hopefully have him and my wife, Lord, feel held when I'm away. Like, that's the legacy that I really want to leave. And that's the currency that I want to leave him. And if I didn't take that leap out of the family business, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what would have happened, but it was a necessary step in this whole process. Yeah, it sounds like a huge run. There's a few things that come to mind when you're talking about that one. Boulder Creek was the damn place in Santa Cruz. But what is the name of the book now?

I just slipped it because Boulder Creek popped into my mind. It's like one of the premier, Iron John, one of the premier books in Men's Work, right? Iron John, they talk about, you know, Robert Bly, it's this beautiful tale. And on the side, they unpack it. You know, what does this actually mean? They talk about this, the prince has to leave his mother, the queen, and go off into the woods with the wild man and divorced from his mom effectively, right? Like the kids are taken away from their parents when they're brought into an initiation. Right. And it's only in that moment.

The parents can't be there. They can't lean in them. They can't even see their parents. They're with aunties and uncles and medicine people and that's it. Right. But I think about that as we're not, we have no right of passage. You know, like we don't have something on paper. We get to go through at 11 years old. So great spirit serves that to us one way or shape of another if we're ready for it. You know, and I think that that is for sure your initiatory experience, not just an individuation, but like the ability. And then to have to to, to, it changed your relationship, right? It's not like when I first read our agenda, I was like, oh, does that mean like you divorce your mom? Like she's no longer your mom. You don't care what she says. And it's like, no, not at all.

But you changes, you know, you're now an adult. Right. It's not my little, she might say my little baby, Mikey, but you're not still playing into that shit. It's like, oh, my mom's little baby, right? And I want to make sure that I impress her and do the things that she enjoys. So it's really powerful to think of how that how that worked for you. And especially when you added into the fact that you're first generation American, right? Yes. It's a different, it's a different scenario. I'd a couple my buddy, one of my best friends. His dad was from Turkey. Mom was from Singapore. And he was first generation American. My brother-in-law, first generation American, his parents are both from Thailand. Like, it's just different, you know. And so understanding what a family business might

mean from a culture like that is a whole different level. It's a whole different can of worms. If you said, like, you know, if somebody now has been five generations of farmers in Nebraska and he decides I'm going to go to school and do something else, they might be mad, but it's, you know, it's not to the same degree of what you're speaking to, you know, coming from a different place where that probably was, you know, what your family is doing might have been something that could have gone generations deep. And I actually see a return to that happening where like now through through the rise of blue collar work and the necessity of it here in the States and commodities, you know, real tangible things that we're going to see that pendulum swing back. And the people

that are doing really well are the people that will be able to teach excellence in a certain pathway for their kids. But that's the biggest thing though, is, you know, we have our own soul's path when we come here. And if we don't listen to that, it's death. you know it'll eat you alive if you don't answer the call from within so that's a really cool is i think i picked up more now that i'm older from that story than i had in the first time there's so much there i mean that was uh so that that was my family like my dad has been working since he was nine years old my parents or my grandparents had a grocery store in sicily at nine years old he would they would take trips and stuff and my grandpa was a truck driver

and be driving all across you know from northern italy to southern etc And my dad was left to man the grocery store. Sometimes my grandmother might, I think, go with him. But there's stories of my dad at nine years old. And he's the oldest of five. And so always been in family businesses, from landscaping to laying marble and granite to the grocery store. So there is that generational imprint. And in many regards, expectation that passed on.

But that book you just said, I or John, for anybody listening, especially the guys, dude. So I just found out. So I got, man, Robert Bly, what, if anybody just type of it on YouTube, you'll get some really cool, poetic, deep teachings on masculinity, on meds work. He actually has the same birthday as me. Cool. He showed up, like, there's a lot of, there's a lot there for me still to learn. But that book of the boy with the golden hair and all of the symbolism and the wild man, like, that wild man that's in all of us and reclaiming that with his, you know, I think his glowing eyes, it is hairy arms,

and he's tall as could be. And there's so much there from the myth of that and how it lives at us. So I'm so happy you brought that up. But if anybody, yeah, has not read that book or listened to it, man, it is just a classic. Yeah. It speaks, you know, like it speaks, I think,

as well for the men's journey as Joseph Campbell might. Right. Like, it just lands, right? Then there's so many things architectically there where it's like, oh, yeah, that is very much. you could either pick it out or if it hasn't happened yet. You know, you can see that unfold looking back after it happens. So that's super cool.

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That's QualiaLife.com slash Kyle15 for an extra 15% off. Awakening your body's repair crew and supercharge your stem cells. Talk about, you know, like when we were first hang and we met eight years ago, I think. You know who I think intro. The first time we hung out was Paleo Effects, but or maybe for, you know, like multiple days. But wasn't it Dr. Grace Liu that introduced us before that? No. I don't think so. Okay, that was Erin Alexander. Right. You don't know who Grace Lou is? No. She was a speaker, a gut health expert at PaleoFX. I'm confusing with Aaron Alexander when we moved down.

But Tasha and I always, you know, just saw the greatness in you and always wondered, you know, when's Mike going to meet his girl? I want to meet his girl, right? And so I remember, I remember, you know, getting a call and the difference in your voice when you were talking about Lauren. It was just like, oh, I think, I think there's something here, you know, and that was a really special moment for me as a buddy who's rooting for, you know, a great guy such as yourself to, like, find this equal awesome counterpart, you know, and I remember talking about dispense and things like that and how I use dispensas as a verb. I dispensed my wife. I dispensed at this land with Aubrey, like I disfay brought it into being through the laws of manifestation. And, you know,

there was no question. It's always divine timing, right? There I couldn't, I never would have worked with my wife a minute earlier than when we met, right? And so many things fell into place where, like, it just had to be that way perfectly. We met in Kuwait and Iraq. I was in a six-and-half-year relationship, and I was attracted to her, but I was also a good boy. You know, I wasn't doing anything there. But because I was in a relationship, I was myself. Like, I farted in her face.

Like, I picked on her, I treated like my little sister. And she laughed, and she didn't throw a fit, nothing. Like, we watched movies together and died laughing. watching space balls. And I remember coming home being, like, to my, to my former girlfriend, my college sweetheart, I was like, you got to meet this girl. You're going to love her. She's awesome. You guys are going to be best pals. And, you know, time went on. And that didn't work out. And it did with Tosh. Right. But, like, thinking back to that, if I was single on that tour, I would have been a mute around her. Wow. You know, I wouldn't have been able to say a word

because I'd have just been enamored. Like, uh, you know, like, I just wouldn't have been me. you know so like that is a perfect thing there talk about some of the things that that unfolded in a way for when when the divine time with you and lauren happened you were prepared for it and what that relationship's been for you brother damn that lights me up uh to what to hear that story but then because i didn't know that piece that you were with someone when you were abroad like i didn't know that piece and you're exactly right any other timing likely would have been the right timing and so i was single truthfully i was single for for eight years. My relationship before Lord had ended pretty dramatically. I'd been cheated on for

about a year and with a guy that I knew. And so it was so much work that I had done with Paul and other coaches. And I think there's a certain amount of healing that we could only do on our own. But then the real test, after I think it was like two and a half, three years, I was like, oh, maybe I'm ready to get out there again. And I looking back, like there was truth to it. like, yeah, I was really stepping into more of the teacher role and movement and fitness, but I was also using that as escapes and ways to avoid the vulnerability that only a real relationship that mirror could provide. And so I did a bunch of work solo, but that painful experience had really, like I had

built so many walls around my heart. And even though I would go, you know, I would go on too many dates, but I went on a handful, I would come up with a laundry list of reasons of why this girl's, nope, nope, nope, okay, I'm going to focus here. Oh, I tried. Oh, I put myself out there. Oh, yeah. I'm telling myself this story that I have, quote, unquote, healed or whatnot. And so at a given point, I got catfished on one date, which was we, Lord, Lord, still, I could tell you some stories. Catfished on one. We had one we called the slow eater that we still laugh about that literally, I don't know if she had IBS or what, but she literally took like 45 minutes. to eat, like, the smallest piece. I've never seen someone pick apart.

I don't know what was the story there, but literally a fiber out of a piece of a small piece of fish for 45 minutes. I'm like, I ran to the bathroom after that date, and like, what is going on? What is happening here? So I had a whole series of bad dates. But Lauren had been a friend for almost about 10 years. So we had been students together more or less in the Czech stuff,

and we knew about each other. But I never really saw her like that. I was like really impressed at how she carried herself. Like that was the first thing that I, one of the first things that I noticed about her, and I still will say this to this day, she is a classy woman. Like she holds herself really well.

She knows how to engage. Very respectful. Like there's, what she walks around is like, damn, like there's just a level of respect I always had with her. And then similar value, similar interests,

food. You know, she had done some medicine work in Peru. And so we had a lot of common interests. and funny story you mentioned dispenza so before and i'll tell you how we got together but before we were together for about three to three and a half months we didn't know this and actually holy smokes i remember staying at your place i was doing dispens you're the one who gave them to me you gave me the morning and the evening meditation i forgot about that you gave me the morning

and told me about the morning and evening meditations and so i had been doing those every single day calling in my part. I forgot that piece of the story that it was you who turned me on to that. And so I was doing those meditations really envisioning my life companion. And Paul gave me the life companion prayer as well. And so I was calling in that. So for three months I was doing that. And we didn't even know until afterwards, she was doing the same fucking prayer.

The same meditation, I'm sorry, the same meditation of Dispenza. So if you think about it, at some point in those months, before, probably at the exact same moment, we were both sitting in and calling in each other, which is wild to think about. But I had invited her to, she was living at Santa Cruz at the time. I had invited her to a combo ceremony at my house, very small. She came to that, and what I was just really impressed, that she, like, accepted the invitation for that type of medicine, which could be obviously very tough.

And I was like, wow, like, okay. I invited her to a second one, she sat, and then I invited her to a medicine ceremony that my psilocybin one that dear, dear friends were running. And in that ceremony, over at the end of the night, we close it, we had some fruit or some chocolates to eat. Everyone was going to their respective rooms at the house where this was in Portola Valley in the Redwoods to sleep. And so I knew the house really well.

so I was I found my my couch to sleep on and that she comes in and she's like she was getting a tour from the host and she was like hey can I crash on this couch with you as a big couch I was like yay of course as soon as she starts sitting down I forgot that I had eaten citrus so I had like pineapple and all this stuff so the medicine reactivated and I'm like as she sitting down I'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa like I'd say it like that but I was like oh lord like I got to let you know I'm about to go back in. Like, medicine's coming on, and she's like, oh, okay, she's still on it a bit. And I didn't have the articulation that I have obviously now about it, but that night was one of the hardest ceremonies I'd ever bidded. And it was literally like I was fighting a metaphorical dragon. Me and her didn't speak. We did sleep, but we sat next to each other. And she held space for me for probably six, seven hours until morning. And I remember this loop of, it was as if energetically I could feel there was something with me at her like I like wow like this feels so good just to sit next to this woman or some there's something here and then I would allow myself to feel that and then all of a sudden a thousand pounds of stones would get poured on my heart it's like no no no no no no no no you're not going to go there and then it was okay can you open up can you feel this no no no no no no and it was like this exhausting circular loop. And we did say, actually the only thing I did say, Kyle was, please help. And she just

held my hand or we held each other's hand for a bit. And then in the coming days, we processed what came up. And it was, if not for the medicine, I don't know if I would have been able to open my heart to even entertain that level of a relationship. And so I really have an incredibly grateful for that night because that's what really like kicked the door down and then you know even after that though like it was a journey like the first two and a half years we were together every single time that we would get like we'd have these beautiful vulnerable moments of connection of whatever of intimacy of connection and then all of a sudden the stories of no no no no no no no no no no like this is this isn't right or she's not right for you or i'd find those ways to pick apart all of these things

But then I started getting to a point where I can recognize the pattern happening. I was like, oh, damn. Like this happens every time you get vulnerable. And I was like, what if that's not the whole truth? And so I started witnessing the pattern for more of a distance and then started developing a whole other set of muscles around it. And thank God for her, for her being patient with me in that, you know, because she knew my past and what I had gone through.

And so, you know, if not for her and her patience and her understanding, which I don't know if many women would have been willing to stay with a guy that was, you know, I was committed, but also there was just a lot of fears running the show. So that's a long way of saying. That's how we, our relationship really started. That's incredible. Yeah. That's so incredible. I remember you telling me about the ceremony briefly, but not to that degree. and yeah that's another thing that that you think of like the the synchronicity of perfect divine

timing and all that that that she was patient and was willing to wait and you could see through it tosh in many ways was patient with me still drinking like an asshole when you know when i didn't have a fight you know it was like party time we just want or win or lose we're going balls to the wall and she'd have a few drinks but she'd notice like why are you eating this one way all organic meditating reading these books and then all bets are off because you did it for eight weeks and you know when to lose you fight you know like it just doesn't make sense right it doesn't add up to have that understanding of health and wellness and to still partake to the degree that i would partake and um she was bang on but it was my

10th ayahuasca journey i was in columbia when bear was in the womb and i could see it and it was wild i could see all the times i was actually thinking of my sister why wouldn't she do this medicine with me and and what was coming forward was her saying like this is just another drug you're going to introduce me to, you know, and I'd introduced her all sorts of shit. When we were young, and I was like, no, this one's different. Iiwaska's different, I promise. But I could see in reverse all the experiences I had led her through that were just drugs. That were just like getting bombed.

And it helped me to recognize that. And then I was like, oh, man, at no point was any of that healthy for me. At no point was any of that good for me. And I could see, too. I remember my first vision on ayahuasca ever. Ceremony one, I relived every fight that me and Tasha had been through up in that point. And I was her and me at the same time. But coming from her, I was speaking in a way that Kyle would understand.

It's like words are coming out of me as her and I understand her intention. And then as Kyle, I'm receiving them for the first time knowing, you know, what she's actually trying to communicate. And so frigging floodgates for like two weeks from that experience. but like those experiences are so undeniable. You know, and I, to be perfectly honest, I've sat with Aya 30 times. I don't feel super called to it anymore. I haven't had an impactful journey like that in, you know, years, right?

And I don't necessarily blame ayahuasca or psilocybin for that. I just think that my body, my soul is craving a different way, right? And so that's working a lot on meditation, and that whole world has opened up in ways that I didn't think were possible. Not from a visionary standpoint, but from a communion with source, you know, which is really what I was seeking the whole time. But her patience for me, I mean, she was talking to her friends, like, I don't know if I, how much longer I can deal with this guy because he, you know, he's totally fine and then

he gets shitfaced, you know, it's like, and it wasn't mean or anything, but it was like, it just doesn't add up. That's not what I want. It's not what she wanted. But she could also see the potential through that and was willing to wait for me to get it myself. Because, you know, anybody can talk to you and say, like, here's your problem. here's the answer, here's what you do to fix it, right? But when it's coming from somebody else, at best, it's solid advice. It doesn't mean you're going to use it. It must come from within in order for you to be like, oh, shit, that's what I need to do, right?

It has to be birthed from within. We were joking. I was telling my mother-in-law, Tosh's mom, about ketogenic diets for a long time. In one ear and not the other, a super Christian, a pastor goes on a ketogenic diet, and he's talking about gluttony and, you know, that gives you power over food. and she's lost like 30 pounds she feels amazing her brain's working great she's like you guys hear about this this ketogenic diet thing and i just started laughing my ass off but it came from within right it was it was on her own where she was able to use that so

i think about that often um but yeah you know there are moments like that and i really feel for people who want that experience but aren't ready for it or have a bad experience you know like it i don't mean a bad experience like it's challenged i bet we all had challenging experiences on medicine but a bad experience would be it throws your mind off the rails like there's a shattering of the ego and it's not piece back together you know humpty dumpty style it doesn't get put back together and i've seen quite a few people go off the rails and not really sort themselves after that so when i used to hear you know the great psychonauts giving a disclaimer it's not for everyone and you know this and that i'd be like shut up get to the juicy part you know tell me how many grams did

you take you know like that kind of thing and uh now you know i do see it i see it from both sides i see the, you know, when you get the call from God, hang up. You don't need to keep calling. You know, all those things have become super resonant for me. But yeah, it's, I wouldn't be married right now for 10 years. We wouldn't have our kids if it wasn't for those, the way those early experiences impacted me and course corrected things in a way where it was like, damn, there's before this journey and there's after this journey. And not all of them went that way, but the ones that did were that big that I don't drink alcohol. You know, like, there's so many things, you know, that it's just like, that's before and this is after, you know, where it changed or, you know,

no one with, even from a training standpoint, I've told you before about the mushroom journey I had where I was stiff and I could see that me being sore and overtaxing my body was making me short with bear. Like I would have shorter fuse with him, with him barreling into me because I was sore and it tightened my emotions, not just my body. And I know that's not a one-size-fits-all. I'm sure there's plenty of guys who, you know, could be sore, or just a fucking big teddy bear but for me that was the case and so course correcting that being you know easy strength standpoint training in a different ways where i wasn't beating myself up and had more energy now he could come and you know run down the way and sidekick me and i'd fall

to the ground and just catch him and play and be the dad that i want to be you know so that there's there's an infinite number of things there but that's super cool um at what point did you guys start thinking about kids because you guys have been friends for so long i'm sure you know like Tosh and I, like, we talked about all our past relationships with each other. I thought it was very healthy. You know, I'm the fourth Kyle she's dated, too. So, like, we make tons of jokes on all the other Kyle's bagging on them. But, you know, the step into fatherhood is such an important piece.

You know, like, realistically, it's, it's funny when people say this is the pinnacle of human technology. And it's like, no, it isn't. There's shit on this planet that we can't redo right now. You know, like there's temples. There's this or that. That's clearly not the case. Time is cyclical. Quite likely we've been greater and greater civilization.

of the now. But in our current history, it feels like the amount of fuckery that's taking place in the world is like a full court press, you know. And so the drive for me to want to create really good kids that understand their inalienable rights, that understand what it means to be a good person and how to be in the world, it couldn't be more pressing than right now from 2020 on. and Wolf was born 4th of July in 2020, smack dab in the middle of the shit on a full moon, right? So, like, there's imprints like that where, like, that's not a mistake. So, you know, talk about the desire to become a parent and talk about what it's been for you, you know, to raise a little guy. You guys know I've tried just about everything when it comes to human optimization from fasting and peptides to breathwork, but the biggest breakthroughs usually come from getting your baseline right.

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KKP and get 10% off your first order of neuro. That's tonum.com slash KKP and using code KKP for 10% off your first order. We're back. Wolfie brought some gems for us here. You've got, I think, little rose quartz she wanted us to have during the podcast here. That's so sweet.

So let's talk kids, brother. Dude, favorite topic. So one thing that I, we'll say about Lauren and then my relationship with her is, you know, we've all got our own stuff, our own shadows, all that stuff. And going back to something I think that we said at the beginning of the show, like now I really realize what all of that work with check in power, like in power lifting, like all of the challenges, struggles, family business, I really realize it was all in preparation for this, which is being a father. And the work that she had done on

herself like obviously we're continually growing together individually as well but we she's pretty grounded man like she's she's a solid woman and so we had just a lot of really good centered conversations around yeah we would be open to having kids and if it didn't happen like we're happy with each other uh there was that desire yes but we're like if it's not meant to be it's it's it's fine. We've got something really solid here that we're happy with ourselves and we're happy in the relationship. And it was clear as day that kids were going to be in our picture. And actually, funny story I just thought of. So when I was working with, oh, dude, this is so funny. So when I was working with Chek, I think towards the end of it, she was taking HLC3, holistic lifestyle

coaching level three. And anytime I was in San Diego, I don't recall if I was working with Chek that weekend or not. But anytime I'm down south, I would always go see him and say hello. So he was teaching HLC3 at the time and she was in that class. So I remember paying a visit and, you know, he says hello. He introduces me to the class. And on that visit, I don't recall if what, if it was when I was actually physically present because this is some years ago, but he told Lauren in that, in that class like something like, hey, sweetie, I just want you to know there's a lot of baby spirits around you, like you are surrounded by babies who want to, who want you to be their mama. And that's like a big thing to say to a student, you know? And so we still, he doesn't pull

punches. Yeah, he doesn't, no, no, no. So we still laugh about that. So like from that moment, and there were so many, man, there were so many, I mean, there's synchronities everywhere if we look for them, right? But I mean, in all of the, I'm just thinking back, when she was staying at an Airbnb, be there was a frog doorbell. One of her first gift to me was a frog. There's been like five or six just uncanny things. They're like, wow, there's something here. And so we were clear like, hey, if it's just us, we're good with that. And we would love to have a kid. And so I'm trying to think of the timeline. I might get it slightly off, but I had seen our son in a vision. And I'll share this with you I just I was just in a sweat lodge recently in Shasta after one of the men's

retreats and I got a second vision and let's go dude hell yeah yeah it's clear like I saw Luca our son playing with another boy and I was clear I was like that's we're having a second and so that just happened a few weeks ago and it was so clear and I was literally even when I joined back the circle with the guys because I sat in meditation right after the lodge and I was just overcome and I couldn't even stand up when I joined the group because I was in so much tears and overwhelmed with emotion like oh my god we're going to have another one so and then I come back because lord does all the food so we come back to the venue and like sweetie I had a vision she's just like oh no what is it this time and I shared with her and so um you know

we were aligned on that that we wanted to be parents um had a lot of conversations about it and it happened on our first try. It was like first try and he came, but there was, you know, all along that way, like we had established, for example, like core values as a family, like she has her core values, I've got mine, we did a bunch of stuff together in preparation for it. And I'll go back to saying everything that we had done before that on ourselves was prep for it. But, you know, then we found out we were pregnant, one of the first people we call Dr. Nathan

Nathan, you know, and he was such, you know, a help in that. But the truthfully, the horrible advice that I had got, not from Nathan, but from other fathers. And I didn't listen to him for sure because it was one of the things that drove me nuts was I'd heard this on, you know, more than three occasions. So more than, you know, enough that like, hey, for the first two years, for the first two-ish years, it's not about you, Mike. like you just you know get like make the money you know help lauren get her water make her comfortable for the first two years you don't really matter i was like i don't really matter like no way absolutely no way am i doing that and so a lot of it was in the beginning especially during those nine months that she was pregnant with him it was like really reflecting and digging deep i'm like

what are the things that I can do now and how do I want to show up as a father and I'll tell you what man I never knew and I'll tell you a bit about the birth experience but I never knew so we went back to go back to the throat singing piece that day in Bonnie do that I decided throat singing it was just because I'd always loved Mongolian throat singing I was like screw it I'm going to learn it but it was just for me and so I practiced and it felt so good just cleansing the center channel really grounding and when he came dude it was remarkable because when he was losing it like you know whatever it is just losing it crying all night etc you know Lauren has her touch she's got breastfeeding to sue them but I was like what can I do and dude the throat singing within it he could be

screaming and within a matter of seconds he would like I'll go skin to skin put him on me he would immediately come into my nervous system ground and get quiet and it was so interesting i was like wow i never would have thought so one of our things has been me throat singing a little bit less now or a lot less now but that was one of the things that helped me feel like wow i can do something here i can step up i can help i can develop this deeper connection with him with the tools that i have and even now when he has a meltdown it's so funny because if he has a meltdown I'll step in and I'll take him and I'll take him upstairs into a quiet room

and I'll just place him on my lap and I'll sit with him and in the beginning I would ask him like you know are you upset buddy or just ask him some questions and he would tell me he told me this like five times until I actually learned he's like what he could speak he would say something like Papa be quiet Papa no talk Papa and I was like Papa no talk don't talk

okay and so what I ended up doing is literally just sitting not saying anything for the first maybe two or three minutes and sit sometimes I would hum

sometimes I might do like a sound in my throat and what I realize is he just needs to co-regulate with me I don't need to say anything and then after there's that there's this peak

of emotional expression much like adults too when we go through stuff there's this peak and then you hit the crest of the wave and then it goes down. In that time, there's nothing I could say that actually is going to be, at least with my relationship with him and how he functions, that I could say that's actually going to sue

them. No words would work. No words. And I didn't realize that. So the vibration of the rhythm, the sound, just me sitting with him, Papa, no talk. I'm like, maybe I should listen to this. And so now I'm quite, I just did it right before I left. I just sat with him for two minutes maybe.

and then once I could feel his co-regulation with mind and you could see either a long sigh or an exhale or his eyes would actually be able to focus on mine then I would ask him some questions and you know help him to the best of my ability process but um it's been a wild ride man and it has been And Laura and I talk about this all the time. It has truly been the best thing that has ever happened to me, to her, to us. There is no championship, no nothing that could even be almost 1% of what it's been to be a father, how much I've learned to do it with her, who's a strong woman, who's a very loving woman, to be called forward in many ways.

And so it's the thing for me, not just right now, but moving forward and moving forward. And it's the thing that gives me the most joy, the most fulfillment. It's opened up a whole new path. It's opened up so much that I didn't even know. There's no way that I could have known. I don't think because I didn't grow up, like being an uncle to other kids. Like I didn't grow up really around kids. You still wouldn't understand it the same.

Yeah, I wouldn't understand. It's like a medicine journey. Like, there's no way other than experiencing it. And I'd actually, you know, Sal DeStefano from Mindp, I thought had a beautiful way of saying it. He said, it's as if you have your heart walking outside your body. And I was like, damn, that's true. And it's also like being on an ivy drip of MDMA. It's like, he looks at you and my Lord just sent me this.

So he speaks, I didn't tell you this, but so the kids speak, so I only speak Italian to him. 100% that's like, I've been very diligent since day one, just Italian. And then surprisingly right across the street, like all old school, old school European Russian daycare. Cool. So he goes to an all Russian daycare. They don't speak any English. And so Lauren just sent me this video of him basically reading all the pictures in a book

and saying every single one from start to finish in Italian. And I'm like, my goodness, he grows up fast. And that was one of the first things that you said when I got here. It's like, man, they grow up fast. But it's been the best, bro. Yeah, truly. That's fucking great, brother. Well, I think we can cap it there.

I've got to jump on your podcast. You've got a lot to do. So thank you so much, brother. It's always a pleasure. I've been waiting for this patiently, you know, for the time to get to chat with you and hear it straight from you. And it's always better face-to-face. So I appreciate you making the trip out here, brother.

Oh, best ever, man. I love you for having you, I love you, too. Love you, too. Thank you.