Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #436 Mind Master: Navigating Peak Performance w/ David Nurse

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

In this podcast episode, Kyle welcomes David Nurse, a renowned mental coach who has worked with elite athletes, particularly in the NBA. David talks about his experiences and the track record that sets him apart in the realm of life and mental coaching. The conversation transitions to various topics, including the importance of managing negative self-talk, and how it impacts both athletic performance and daily life. David shares insights into finding simplicity on the far side of complexity, explaining that top performers often achieve mastery by returning to basics and practicing with intention. The two discuss the concept of flow state and its critical role in peak performance. David dives into a scientific study he conducted to train individuals to enter flow state through a series of techniques including meta-visualization, autogenic mind-muscle connection, bilateral tapping, cross crawl disorganization, and neuro-connecting. The discussion also covers the significance of having a healthy relationship with failure and the importance of pursuing passions with purpose. The episode concludes with the promise of David’s upcoming book, which will offer more insights into achieving flow state and peak performance.   Connect with David here: Instagram Website All Links The David Nurse Podcast More Less Protein   From Kyle: The Community is coming! Click here to learn more Full Temple Reset is back with Erick Godsey, Click here to learn more   Our Sponsors: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to Lucy.co/KKP and use promo code (KKP) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers FREE SHIPPING and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. These are the b3 bands I was talking about. They are amazing, I highly recommend incorporating them into your movement practice. Go to tonum.com/KKP, use the code KKP, and get 10% off your first order of Nouro.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Kyle-Kingsbury Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!

Welcome to today's podcast. We have the return of my good buddy, David Nurse. I'm so stoked to have David on this podcast. David is, you know, in a unique position. He's young, he's handsome. He lives in L.A. He's moving here to Austin. That's not anything crazy.

But, you know, I've come across a lot of life coaches, a lot of mental coaches, and very few of them have the pedigree or the track record. David does. David's worked with the very best in the world. He's buddies with some of the greatest coaches of all times. He's worked in the NBA directly on teams and now works with a lot of the NBA's best players. So I'll let him say that for himself, but I just want to say he's fantastic. He's a great human.

He knows a lot. I would be honored if my son was to work with him at a certain point in sports. And I would have, I wished to God I had had David when I was fighting because, man, I was just a headcase, always thinking of shit, overthinking of things. And, you know, that comes out of detriment to us. And even if you're not in the UFC or even if you're not playing sports, that negative mind, that negative self-talk can interfere with all sorts of shit. It can make challenging conversations with your wife even more challenging, right? If inside your head there's another voice just talking shit to you.

It can make disciplining your kids or having, you know, hard talks with your kids about certain things if that negative mind is in your head, just talking smack nonstop. And so these are things that people deal with on a regular basis. is whether you're an athlete or not. So I love to having David on. He's got a beautiful process, and he's into some really cool stuff. I just got a chance to try some new protein gummies that he's into with our buddy Tara has been on the podcast.

Terro, of course, the founder of Four Seigmatic Mushrooms. So really cool things in the works here. And that's it. Without further ado, my brother, David Nurse. All right, David Nurse, welcome back to the podcast. Come on, baby. You've flown in from California. We used to see each other down in SoCal, and we've just been,

talking about California and I feel it's a weird it's near and dear for me to speak about California because I was born and raised there and nobody loves California like a true born and bred California

you know like there's somebody who's really been up and down the coast all over I've lived in Central California we lived in Turlock had a great uncle in Modesto who did a lot of farming and stuff it was only for a year but like I kind of have a feel my sister

dated a guy and um lived in fresno for a couple of years fresno's definitely a dump but you've done at all it's i've been around i've been around the state lived in norcal lived go to top my buddy'd work at north star every every winter we'd drive up and spend a couple weeks at his cabin and trucky snowboard for two weeks you know unlimited stuff and it's just so much to do there's so incredible and so scenic you know like even just watching um the planet of the apes remake where they're in the sequoia national forest and you're just like This is, this fucking place is real, dude. It exists.

It's insane, you know, like how beautiful it is. And to see how far that ship has sailed in the wrong direction is just mind-blowing, dude. Mind-blowing. It's so heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. It's to the point where, like, it's almost like, in many ways, it's like the vaccine thing. I'm going to have Aaron Siri on the podcast who just wrote a book called Vaccines, Amen. And he proposes, you know, that is unique to all of medicine and how people praise and

revere vaccines without out of knowing a goddamn thing about them with making assumptions that doctors have said, this is good, these kind of things, right? And he says it's really almost religious, right? Now, you're a man of God and faith, and I am as well, but what he's pointing out to is actually not wrong, right? And I guess that's kind of like the conversation, you can't have that conversation. with a lot of people. More people are having the conversation now,

but I feel like in California, you bring up something like that or you bring up, you know, the potential that masks don't work. It really depends where you are because we were talking about, you know, the pockets of places in Orange County in just different places that said,

no, fuck that. This is a, and I remember seeing the sheriffs of Riverside County in different places come out online on social media and say, hey, that's a medical choice. That's a decision that you're allowed to do or not,

that's the decision you're going to make. You can choose the word or not, or like not to. We're not going to enforce it. It's none of our business. Right. And I was like, that's it. That's it. Right there.

Why can't the rest of the state buy under that? I just don't get it. Yeah, when I think about it, but anything is your identity and you stand so strong in your identity. If someone comes and counteracts that or says, hey, maybe it's a different way. And you've put so much time into this is the way it is. It doesn't matter if you, you might know you're wrong on the inside, but are you willing to give up everything you put in to get to that point and that's your identity no and that's what it became everything should be a conversation it doesn't have to be a you know charged angry this way that way

it should just be a conversation like let's look at it from both sides you know let's like analyze it you know where's the you know does this make sense does this make sense but you can't even get into that type of conversation and it's just like anything man like the old adage like you can't win an argument with someone who just wants to argue you never will and that's kind of how california got but man to your point though it is the most beautiful state in the country it is my wife and i were just in italy and we're looking up and down the amalfi coast and it's so gorgeous and then we're thinking like well this kind of looks like catalina island um you know this is big sir like italy has the same winery type temperatures as california does it's so beautiful but what did

California do and it is so sad because you want it so much and there's this just as part of me too that is a you know when I got out to Los Angeles after being in Brooklyn coaching in the NBA and in you know LA in 2016 through 2018 was amazing the energy the vibe that like we were dancing in the streets of Santa Monica you go to Santa Monica now you're dancing to get out of there so you don't get shot or stabbed or something so you know part of that even with the part of like is like you know you live in the the narrative that you create and you know sometimes I still want that Pollyanna version of 2016 LA but you know it's not yeah stuff it changes and then that's just being I don't know you wrote the punches right I think I think you're exactly right

with the identity it's something there was a guy I forget I forget his name he was on Rogans he was talking about um I think he studied um um um um all religions. I don't know what they, what the, you know, the theological degree would be. Yeah.

But that was his main course of study in college. And he got out and he decided to write about a book about diet because the religious stuff was too touchy. That was,

like, you know, you wanted to point to these, you know, point out similar, even if you're pointing out similarities, we're nothing like that group, right?

So like, yeah. He said, I don't want to touch religion because it's too touchy. So I talked diet. He said, I got just as much shit talking diet.

And, and that, you know, when he really, had a great conversation there because that too has a lot to do with identity. For sure. And if you say like, oh, you know, I think we should go without carbs for a little while, just periodically, you know, like maybe not throw them out, you know, like the, permanently,

but let's say for three weeks, you know, we go low carb and see what happens and see what that does to our body, you know, and you got guys like, uh, biolane me like, you'll, you know, like, you're like, full on, dude. But that's easy, it's, it reminds me of, uh, it reminds me of, of the guys, you know, when Graham Hancock was talking about Egypt, Egypt. Oh, I love Graham. The Egyptology, right? Yeah.

Like, they literally have books on the dating of Egypt and the Sphinx and all these things that they've written and staked their whole career on, like decades of, you know, standing by this book and presenting at conferences. So any new data that goes against that, that foils the last 40 years of their fucking life, right? Now, biolane doesn't have 40 years defending carbohydrates and sugar, but he also has carbohydrate products that he sells and different things like that. So, I mean, it's just, it's funny. how that that really does start to trickle into kind of all avenues is as far as we want to let

it right as far as we identify with it is as far as it could be problematic and us having the ability to let reflectively look back on it gosh that's so good but it is right like the two you know most dicey things for people to talk about or i mean i guess you could put politics in there so three religion nutrition you know politics but even with the nutrition stuff i think people are at such a spot where they're so convoluted and they don't really like you you know, when your wires get so crossed, like, you know, my, my biggest pet peeve is those headphones where you plug them into the phone, but they get tangled up and you just can't untangle them. That's what it feels like people's minds are with nutrition, because one time,

you know, there's one person running down the path of, you know, raw milk, and then there's carbohydrates, and then there's this, and then you should have fruit, you shouldn't have this. I the best thing I ever heard recently from a lady who I think is a genius she's not like she's not out there she's not social media in it but she said just you know eat when your body tells you you're hungry and I was like well shouldn't I have you know shouldn't I count those macros when I'm eating that sure when I should have it's you know no you should just eat when your body's healthy you know follow you know obviously you know eat protein carbs balance it out I just think I just think there's so much in life now.

And even with, you know, just social media and news and constantly on, that it's really hard to cut through the noise and to get simple. And I think simple is beautiful. Simple always wins. It's even with doing all this, you know, research on flow state and having the opportunity to interview these amazing high performers like I went climbing with Alex Honnold, the free solo guy. Oh, dope.

Dude, I'll just tell you, it's crazy. Made best cup of coffee with the number one barista coffee champion in the country. Just played the violin with the top violinist in the world. And what you see there is the simplification of it. So when you think like, hey, these people are the best of the best. It must be so complicated. It's not. It's this term that I love.

It's called simplicity on the far side of complexity. And what that means is, you know, like anytime you do something when you start it off, when you're a kid, when you're excited about it, or like, you know, playing basketball. It's just, it's so fun, right? You're playing for fun and you're playing free. It's just, you know, you're not thinking about the 72 different things and details and everything. But then as you continue to rise up the ranks and whatever your respective field is, there's a lot of details.

There's this. You have to worry about this. You have to think about this. But then when you cut through it and you get to the top of the top, it's back to just having fun and playing free. Like even when Alex is talking about climbing, he's just, he said it multiple times. He's just like, yeah, man, I just go out and do the thing. Like, I just go do the thing. I'm like, aren't you thinking about it?

He's like, I've done it enough times, man, I'll just do the thing. I'm not worried about all that. And I think about two of the NBA players that I work with, even one of the guys who's just, he's just really broken out, Norm Powell, and he's having an all-star season, and he's just killing it. He's worked his way to get there, but the thing we always talk about, and I always ask him after every game is like, did you have fun? Did you play free?

And if he answers those questions, like, yeah, I really did. That's when he had a great game. I got a question on this because we touched on flow. And obviously for people that didn't hear our first podcast, I definitely want to rewind that it was years ago. Years ago. So I got to get some background on who you are and what you do because I think this is worthwhile. And obviously we spent a larger chunk of that on the first episode really diving deep into that. But I think we need to rehash some of that.

And then I want to talk, you know, about this peak performance piece because, you know, the simplicity after. complexity is almost like Bruce Lee's training of not afraid of the man who throws 10,000 kicks. He's afraid of the man throws one kick 10,000 times, right? Because he has perfected that thing. It's no longer, there's no thought required. It's reflexive. Right? So the same guy who has the pull-up jumper from the free throw line. That's just basic as fuck, but he's drilled it so many times that it does, there's no thought involved. He knows exactly where to stop. He knows exactly when to jump. He knows exactly at a time, exactly where the release is. And to become simple again, you know, to where if he's thinking about the thing, he's actually

pulling himself out of being in the moment. Totally. Like when, when solo's up there, free solo, Han Solo, whatever the fucking is, if he's got to think about where to place his hand, he's not in the thing. Exactly. Right. So he's, and I can't experience this. I'm terrible at rock climbing, way too big of legs and whatnot.

It's hard. It's hard. I have mad respect for these guys. And it's a terrific sport. And to see what this guy does, too, without. without any you know uh harnesses like it's just like like i i had to turn away from the screen palm sweaty like like a ghost like i thought i was gonna vomit that's how freaking scared i was for this dude um but like you know he he he has simplicity after complexity right like he comes

to a point through so much repetition that it's natural for him to not think it's natural for him to just be in that flow space of i'm looking for the next thing bam that's where it is or like Paul check, when Paul check and I stack stones, if I'm thinking what looks like a good stone to go, that's not the right stone. It sounds woo-woo as fuck, but there's a communication that happens with those stones where if I'm in tune, the next stone's going to call me. And it's not going to be like, hey, Kyle Kingsbury, I'm over here. It's just going to fucking, I'm just going to be drawn to a stone.

And I'll say, oh, this, yeah, this looks right. And I'll pick it up if I can and I'll bring it over and I'll drop it next to the stack. and I'll look at it and I'll go, I think it goes this way. And it might take some adjusting, but generally that that stone's going to stick and it's going to stack up and it's going to work. Right. If I have to think through that, I'm not in the thing that gets that stone stack to work correctly. Right.

And I think there's the same for him. Super well, you know, but I think that's what I want to get to from that, that complexity piece requires a certain due diligence with the basics. It requires a certain amount of reps, whether that's the 10,000 hour rule or something else doing the not fun boring shit that you think you don't need to do yeah i always joke about no gara when i was on the ultimate fighter he one of the greatest heavyweight jiu jih Tzu players of all time right pride champion he's got daniel valverdeh uh two other black belts with him anderson sylva comes in and you look like four the world most world class guys in the

world class in jih Tzu for 90 minutes straight all these guys did was guillotine practice like someone's hanging on his neck arm in arm out saying I go dude you guys spent 90 fucking minutes you got all these black belts here coach and I'm a white belt at the time like why spend that long in the guillotine like your neck's gonna be sore you're just hanging and he was like because body guillotine happens it happens a lot you know and I was like good he goes it happened into training happened in a fight happened in and I was like oh okay you're spending 90 minutes there because it's frequently a position you're going to be in and he can't spend enough time in that position

that's what I got from that like the basics basics basics basics All right, guys, quick break to tell you about what I've been up to. This year has been a year of transition for me with a fit for service making huge changes. I've been working to create my own community. I still don't have a name for it yet. That is in the works. I'm brewing on it. But one of the things that I have come to understand is what this community is about.

And so I want to give you a little hint here and let you guys drop in. I'd love to get your feedback. And there's a link at the top of the page here if you guys are interested at all. All right. So join in a transformative journey with our exclusive community where like-minded individuals come together to explore the realms of body, mind, and connection. For $150 a month, you'll gain access to a treasure trove of wisdom from hundreds of podcast guests, a lifetime of learning and human optimization, and the teachings of legends like Paul Chek, James Clear, and so many others. Reconnect with your inner compass and discover the freedom, health, and sovereignty that await.

Embrace the journey to excellence because we are what we repeatedly do. If that interests you, peep the link in the show notes for the community, and we will get you guys locked in. All right, back to the podcast. Dude, two stories on that. And that is it right there, too. So, you know, we're going with Alex when you're talking about the free solo. You know, I interviewed him for about, you know, 40 minutes. We talked and stuff.

And then we spent the next six hours, I kid you not, just climbing on his climbing wall. And he was practicing these little moves. Like, he's just, you know, he had this wall. It's really cool. and it lights up different colors. Kind of like a dance dance revolution thing, it looked to me, but then you put your hands in certain places. But he was just practicing, like, the, you know,

the innermost, like certain smallest movements and details to get his foot at the right spot, his fingers at the right placement. So, so intricate of details, but it looked really basic and kind of boring, I guess you could say. It's not like the, you know, the sexy stuff as you're out there. And he'd fall. And he'd fall. And he'd fall.

And he'd like, okay, let me try it a different way this time. but what it showed to me is like even the best of the best like they know these moments are going to come and they don't want to be caught out there on the actual doing that thing and then you know not knowing what to do it just become you know natural reflex to him so it's exactly what you said of like hanging in the guillotine for 90 minutes of you've got to own the fundamentals and own own the basics like nobody has done before to be able to build to everything else that you probably coming in there wanted to do as a white belt and see all the cool stuff. So I trained the top NBA player in the world right now. I trained him for three summers. Shea Alexander when he's coming out of

college to the NBA. He's now the MVP. He won the NBA championship, the scoring title. He's on pace to his team might break the record for most wins this year. He's a phenomenal talent, unbelievable. But when he was coming out of college, he wasn't that, like nobody really knew who he was. He was kind of this, you know, came from Kentucky after his freshman year. People thinking, you know, mid first round, late first round, maybe, you know, maybe second round and very unassuming guy. So I've done NBA pre-draft. I used to coach in the NBA for the Brooklyn Nets. And then I did a lot of individual training for 150, 200 NBA players through the years. And I did this thing that I really enjoyed it called pre-NBA pre-draft.

It's where you come from college to you transition into the NBA. It's like a three-month span. and it is hyper-intensive, hyper-focused on preparing you for the next level. Now, you might think, like, college basketball and pro basketball, they're both basketball. No, no, no. They're very, very different things. So, anytime we'd get these, you know, players, and there are a lot of potential top picks and everything, and I'd ask them, like, what, you know, what do you want out of this? Like, you've got to know where somebody wants to go to have a vision to help them get to that vision. And most guys would say, you know, I want to be a first.

round draft pick on a win a championship I want to be an all-star but this kid came in the first day it was in Santa Monica California 2018 and he comes in this gangly kid big smile on his face he says I want to be the best player in the world like just no hesitation I'm just like okay all right you know we're trying to get you a draft pick here buddy like there's like LeBron and these guys Kevin Durant's like best player in the world I kind of you know I let it I let it go I want them to be you know have have the drive and so we do this the first workout we do with these pre-draft guys we try to crush them just like you know test where they're at crush their souls kind of like what you know buds and navy seals would be

obviously that's much more important than basketball but similar concepts so we put them through two a half three hour workout and everybody's you know just wants to get to locker room passing out the floor tapped out and shay comes up after that first workout and he says this big smile on his face He's always, I had this smile. Like, think about like Steph Curry's smile. He always has a smile. It's like, when are we going tonight? Like, what?

Dude, we just, like, what, you want to go again tonight after we just did this? And he's like, yeah, well, I didn't master some of the moves. And so what he was saying is there's certain moves, there's certain footworks, there's certain, I'm sure what is with fighting and everything. There's certain, you know, little small details that you have to master to be the elite of the elite. And there's only one other player that I ever heard do something similar. It's a 17-year-old kid back in the day because a friend of mine also coached in the NBA and was doing pre-draft for him. It was Kobe Bryant. He would stay around for extra to make sure he mastered this footwork.

So Shea and I went, you know, morning, evening, and he would make sure that he would master every single move. The point that I'm saying here is this is what's called deep practice. so in flow state this deep practice is the separator they call it to 10,000 hours but you don't necessarily need 10,000 hours because you could practice for 10,000 hours and just be okay it's how you practice so think about it if I'm shooting a bow and arrow and imagine this in your mind right now and if I just shoot the bow and arrow and I'm aiming at the target and I just shoot okay and I shoot again I shoot again that's fine that's practice I could tell you suck at archery because both your hands are releasing the arrow at the same time

Oh, that's fucking great. That's so good. That's so good. Unless you've got two strings in your hand and two knocks and wire both hands, release it at the same time. Oh, I really wish this is on video right now. That would have been the clip from the ground, dude. You know what?

You know what's so funny that you say that, though? Like, you're totally right. Like, I don't know how to do archery. I suck at it. I'm sure I suck at it. But it's the same thing that I see, like, when people, like, showing me how they shoot a basketball. Yeah, they're like, cross over.

I'm like, that's terrible. Or someone who's never thrown a. baseball before throws a baseball you're like ooh that's we might not be friends same thing with archery anyways imagine me stringing it back releasing somewhere back there and if i shoot it and i keep shooting the same thing it's practice but if i analyze every single repetition and every shot and i see where the trajectory of the arrow hits i see where my footwork is i watch the video of it that's deep practice so you're taking every rep and you're actually learning from it and that's the difference of what Shay did of what Kobe would do. And that's how you tap into this type of flow state mentality

because you've already done this type of work to build the foundation. Then you can put everything on top of it. Fast forward to where we are today. She's the MVP. She's the best player in the world. And a lot of that attributes to the deep practice and how he prepared for it. So to your point, full circle this with Alex Honnold and the free solo and Shay in the NBA is, yeah, you have to master absolutely, not just master the fundamentals, but you have to fall in love with doing those fundamentals day in and day out. Yeah, I'd love the point you make, too, on that, you know, practices make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

It's another way I've heard that. Totally. Because the archery thing, you know, John Dudley got me into, Rogan got me into archery, and then John Dudley actually built my first bow. It was really cool. He was doing a thing out here. Can you teach me? Because obviously I need some help.

I can show you what I remember of his, and you can certainly learn from him online to get better details. But, you know, just the idea of going out and slinging arrows for 10,000 hours would cook the same patterns and bake, and it's no different than shooting, right? Like, they say you go to a shooting seminar for a rifle stuff or handgun. And they'll always say women are more coachable than men. Because if men have more experienced shooting, they've already baked into the equation, their shitty habits, you know, where they push into the gun, you know,

and you could see that when they dry fire. You're like, oh, you're actually countering this muscle-wise, whereas girls don't have that, especially if they're a free slate and they're more willing. There's no ego there. They're willing to say like, hey, I suck at this. Show me what I need to do and improve. But I appreciate the clarification on that because the 10,000 hour rule is something that's like an easy. It's almost like a biohacking thing where you're just like, oh, that's the thing, right? That's the thing we're all trying to do right now that everybody wants.

If we just do that thing, then everyone wins. But 10,000 hours done inappropriately is the wrong. direction. Like if you've got a line in the sand and you've got a fucking backwards and a forwards and if you're doing it incorrect, that 10,000 hours is putting you in the wrong direction and take just as long to repattern that. Well, I love the fact that it's interesting too. It's like I've always had a deep appreciation for basketball in the NBA. I played one season my sophomore year because I was the tallest, one of the tallest guys on the team being that we had 70% Asians in our school, right? In Montevista and Cooperino where Apple computers from, right?

So, like, I'm a giant. I'm a giant at Monta Vista. And, you know, played center. I sucked. I went back to wrestling the next year. I liked wrestling more. We weren't going to be a good team anyways. Even if I, even if I didn't suck.

Oh, man. You're six, five, and an athlete. You could have carried that team. You weren't going to be a good team anyways. But I've always appreciated it. You know, it's one of those things are like, it's a sport where you can see, you know, like I'm hearing people talk about, like, there's chips in the footballs now. And they can use, you know, momentum and the magnetic.

strips in the hands. So that's why you see all these one-arm catches now. And it's like, dude, you know, Chauncey Billups and all the gambling shit. It's like, set that shit aside. Watch a fucking game and tell me how athletic these dudes are. They're the greatest athletes on the planet. Right?

And if NBA players, you know, you can't call them pussies. Like, Ron Artaest is not a pussy. There is a difference, though, even between an NFL guy and a professional fighter on what they're willing to take. What they're like, who will, I'm freaking, at AK training with guys. middleweight world champion, lightweight world champion,

light heavyweight world champion, heavyweight champion, and Kane Velazquez, heavyweight champion in Dan Correa, all my training partners, former guys that fought for the title, and Paul Boyntello, Mike Kyle, the laundry list of dudes, Andrei Wino-Lofsky would come through,

Leoto Machita would come through, got to live with Chuck Liddell. I've been hit in the face by the best in the world. I wasn't the best in the world, but I hit in the face by the best in the world. And I watched the guy come in who was 6-3-260, NCAA champion, and our management used to recruit

the best wrestlers on the planet. hey come here we'll make you like cane we'll make you like dc if you're that good of a wrestler we'll teach you how to strike and you're a straight shot to the title you don't even need to learn judith if you don't want it right but we've also got that too and so dude comes in i won't say his name but you know he had like he never liked getting punched in the face and it's like you don't have to enjoy it but part of you does part of you has to like getting punched in the nose just enough or anger just enough that you're willing to say oh no i get to punch you back totally Now, here's the fun part.

I just got fucking licked, and the fun part is, I get to punch you back. Because if that crumbles you, it doesn't matter how talented you are in any martial art. And that was this dude. He fought twice, two or three times. I think he'd lost two or three times, and he just hung it up. You know, Division I champion, 6-3, 260, all natural, built, you know, incredibly well built. Lesnar didn't like getting punched either. He wouldn't let his guys spar with him to the head.

Like, how long is that going to last for you? Totally, man. And he was an absolute freak, had to cut to 265. But thinking about that, like the, all that aside, I have so much respect for NBA players and the gifted football players, you know, that maybe play not in the front five, you know, but are on the outside, like, especially like the, anytime I see safeties hit like John Lynch or Ronnie Lott, you know, like, or Troy Palomala, there's a special group of people that can be that small and hit like that.

We've been watching a homie from Arizona State. just got the nastiest ankle injury on earth I don't want to be a scatabo until he got hurt for the giants right on like that dude is only 6-2-220 it gets like that and he's a freaking rookie and he's just mopping up linebackers like that makes me giddy

but like you know you can only see you won't see there's a certain group you know like where you really get to see the articulation of perfect fluid movement in a human body and and you can see see it even, you know, like you see all the different forms in football because you can have a giant like John Wellborn or you can have a little guy like Palamalu and depending on their

training, you're going to see those gifts shine. But in the NBA, it's like you really get to see that shine. You really get to see the perfection of human movement. You know, when you make somebody miss and you're just like, go and the guy's legs just stuck in the corner. You know, like it's just like there's something really special about that. And if you've ever played basketball and you have any kind of strength to combine strength with the touch, to just float that ball in like it's a special combination it really is it really is i've always been a huge fan of basketball for those reasons because i think you get to witness something growing up in the era of jordan and bird and johnson and all these guys is like how could you not

love basketball you know seeing it seeing it played at a level like that and it's really cool to see how the game shifted and see people come up in ways like that but i've always wondered and this is where i have a very a very strong attraction to you buddy is that you you You know, when I, what I got to, you're a fucking handsome dude. The cameras can't see you right now. But the, you know, the, when I fought early on, it was just like, oh, we'll see how far I can go. You know, I mean, the guy talked to me. You guy had a, got the gym that I was at.

He had a small promotion in Arizona, Raging the Cage, and he was like, dude, you're tall, you're handsome, you're an athlete, fight professionally one time. And if you do well, you can keep going. If you don't, you could say you fought pro once. I was like, all right, that's pretty decent bait. I'll fucking come. And all these guys are just fat bar guys, you know, like they're just looking to fight somebody. It was a hundred bucks. But I won my first two fights in under 30 seconds.

And I was like, oh, should I do this? Should I take it serious? You know? And then I was like, oh, I do want to take it serious. And after my first loss, when I wasn't taking into serious, decided I'll move back to Arizona or to Northern California and trained in American Kickboxing Academy where I was born and raised, moved back in with my dad who had a little space there. And it was very hard for me mentally to get over the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

the hurdle of saying, holy shit, I'm in the UFC. Right? Like, there was still that. Now, everyone gets nervous.

Nobody doesn't get nervous. It helped me a lot here and like Randy Couture would visualize all the ways he could lose and then come to terms with that and then start spending all this time visualizing the way he was going to win. I was like,

that's medicine for me to know that this dude's worried, you know, still has concerns about how he's going to get his ass stomped in front of all these people. But I think I put the sport, that level of the sport itself on too high a pedestal. and and so I've always had an attraction to people like yourself who work on the mind because that truly is like the difference between you know a master or a multiple time world champion and the guy who was really good and had a lot of talent but didn't quite make it far you know like I would I would venture I don't I can't speak for these guys you can talk team sports are different right but like Dan Marino somebody who was excellent and never won the thing you got to wonder if there was something like you know like what you could have done with a Dan Marino or a boomer assize you know like that that's There's just, they were right there.

You know, the 90s bills, four Super Bowls in a fucking road, dude. And they were right there. Crazy, right? So I think about things like that, but I have a real appreciation for people like you who not only say, there's a lot of people who say, we live in a world right now and you're about to move to Texas where a lot of people say their life coaches. A lot of people say they're therapists. A lot of people say.

It's going from California, man. There's more in California. I don't know, no, no. Not after 2020, dude. It seems like all the actors, all the actors and all the life. coaches move from New York and California right here to Austin. It's like the capital of the world for it, which is funny because I don't know what the fuck I do now.

I'm still a student more than a teacher, but I do teach. And so, um, any of you, you, you're one of the very few who have, you have a job to do and it's in this section. It's around the mind. And you actually have people that you could say like, oh, who are your clients? Oh, this guy. This guy, the best player on earth. That's the guy I coach.

you know like and it's like wow dude that's fucking red because it's an undeniable part of the game and i think most people a lot of fighters would say like oh you're a pussy if you need a mental coach or you're a pussy if you need to you know do breath work or whatever the thing is and it's like if that works for you cool tank habit but i think most people like george st pierre and other other people would venture in to say like this is this is an important part of the game i'm going to work on this too and um certainly in other sports i don't think there's as much of a what's the word I'm looking for? There's not as much of a hiccup

in somebody willingness to work with somebody like yourself to knowing that there is potential there to grow. All right, guys, quick break to tell you about one of our longest running show sponsors, lucy.com. Let's level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to lucy.com slash KKP

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That's probably why it's addictive. It feels good. It feels good to rock nicotine. I love the mint. I rock the 12 mic pouches, but start slow. Work your way up. There's no reason to jump up. If you jump up to the big boys too quick and get nauseated, just go low.

Go light. Take more as needed. And it's about a 45-minute window of awesomeness. There you go. Lucy.co slash KKP for 20% off. In so many ways of, you know, the barrier to entry for a life coach or a personal trainer or anything is, it's part of the reason that it muddies the waters of it. So it kind of ruins it for the rest of the people. And that's one of the reasons I got out of just the actual only skill development part of it.

when people started creating these names for themselves as social media trainers and they'd have nicknames and I think you know who I'm talking about if you know if anybody knows the basketball world but they weren't really the guys because the guys were actually doing the work and if you're doing the work you're not necessarily out there marketing yourself and you let it speak for itself I think there's a beauty of it and I'll come back around to that point of you know the top athletes and actually training the mind of it but there's a beauty in letting your work do the talking And that's what these people that these flow state people that I've been interviewing and now I'm, you know, I'm going to interview some top chefs, some mathematicians and I'm just going down this whole, you know, gamut of no matter what area, no matter what sport or whatever it is, the top people are doing something at a different level. And it's, it's always comes back to doing it for the inner flame, the passion that they have of it, as opposed to the outer applause.

These people that like to call themselves, you know, I'm a personal trainer. I'm a life coach. First of all, if you're calling yourself a life coach, you ain't a coach. No one knows their life better than the person that you're actually going to be with. So if you're saying you're the life coach, that's the number one thing to run away from if someone says life coach. And you better will have a damn good life. Oh, man, yeah. Like nothing opens you up to creating.

Yeah, like a marriage coach who's divorced. Like, ooh, that might not work out so well. relationship coach who's who's been married for three years and hasn't have kids yet there's a couple other things that happen here that make it a little more complicated than that 20 year old that's a life coach like really interesting but these people you know what I'm saying like they they're doing it because they actually have a love for it and I've seen this ultimate you know the flow state as we're talking about this high performance and you know mental aspect and sports and mindset but the flow state of life is when you actually

have something that you're passionate about that you love doing and it's personified so this you know this guy who's a top barista you know in the country like he didn't set out to win these awards i don't even think he knew that there's a top barista championship but he just loved making coffee because the joy that it brought to people he loved the process of it he loved the beans the grinding the smell of it just just the ambiance and you know eminence of it all so in that being said it's like you have the passion it's personified you're living what you're you're you're you love to do and then you're doing it for purpose and that's when you're living in your flow and not just what people think of like this flow state and we can dive deeper in what like why i think

flow state's been this word that's been thrown around but no one's actually put you know an actual way to do it one on this two year journey with these neuroscientists to do this whole you know irb approved scientific study for how to tap into flow state and 10 hertz is the the um accepted number in the brain there's it's alpha in the brain where it's between eight and 12 hertz and right there about 10 hertz is when this flow state happens so we can talk more about you know that and how that whole study went to be to actually how to tap into flow state more regularly and stay in it longer but it's it's the the living out of the the passion personified with purpose is the formula the three things to live in a flow state type of life i mean think about it for yourself you're

doing that i mean you had a passion you know for fighting and you've turned that into a career your passion for health you've turned that into a career not because you said like hey i got to go set out and make a bunch of money that was i'm sure that was never your goal of it but it comes as a byproduct of it when we're talking about you know kind of full circle in it too where these athletes and they're you know you say you know the dan merino the gym kelly with the bills like why can't they do it because they don't have a healthy relationship with losing that's one of the biggest things man can you be okay if you set out to do something and your goal is to win the super bowl or make it to the Olympics are you okay if you don't make it and if you're not okay

you're going to really struggle with that because your relationship is going to be very you know you know convoluted it's going to be tough because that's what you put coming back to the whole california thing too your identity in and you know i had this this great conversation a couple friends of mine, one who have been, you know, a mentor to me in the basketball space, he coaches of Miami Heat, Eric Spolster. He's one of the top coaches in NBA history. And another friend is Sean McVeigh, coaches the Rams. And we were having this dinner a couple years ago. And they both been to the top. They both won the championship. You know, Spolsteros won a few of them. McVeigh won one. And it was really interesting what they both said is they said their lowest moment in

their life was after they won the championship and people you're probably thinking of like whoa that why would that be they did like gold medal syndrome for an olympian same thing man it's the exact same thing because if you put all your your worth your impetus in the winning of the thing it's going to let you down because there's there's never a time no matter what no matter if you think it's you're the only exception you're not there's never a time when you think or you know that hey i made it i'm good no it's it's the love of the process it's the love of the learning it's the love of the growth it's a love of doing it with a team it's a love of the you know the just being obsessed with the craft that you have that drives you not the actual winning of it so you know with top athletes of

you say like hey you need to feel you need to have some nerves you need to feel the pressure to be able to get into that you absolutely do one because it means that you care but the second part of it is you have to be fully okay with separating you from the actual thing that you do and it might sound basic but it's really really hard for athletes it's really really hard for people and i think one of the main things you know that i've been able to see to work with these different athletes and and CEOs even of fortune 500 companies and in boardrooms and everything is it's it's it's not you know their dependence isn't on the success their dependence of what they do is on the process of what they do and it's on the people that they do it with

if they and i think that is the even in flow state in the formula formulaic way to tap into flow state is the last part of it is what i call neuro connecting and that is connecting with a higher power something that you know god something that that will bring you more purpose and meaning and doing it doing all of it for a bigger purpose with people and it with it with Without that piece, I mean, you're just constantly chasing some other mountaintop that you think might fulfill you, but ultimately gold medal syndrome leave you empty. Yeah, I love that. And I think about the connection piece there is such a huge one.

I'm reading The Second Coming of Christ by Yogananda. I think it's a fantastic book. I really wanted to study Christ, but not from a Christian from like an Eastern mystic. And I saw that he had written that line. And I was like, oh, this is perfect. And I'm going to diving into it. But I think of the line, whenever there are, you know, I'm going to butcher this because I don't have a lot of Bible study. But wherever there are three or more, I'll be there.

Mm-hmm. Right? So I think of that. Like, and even just like heart mass stuff, if you're not in religion, totally fine. Heart math can prove scientifically that our heart field extends out up to eight feet, right? And that when we're in co-residence with somebody. That's why face-to-face podcasts are always better. Totally.

As long as they're good. We're now interfacing with each other, right? Like our hearts, our heart fields are entangling and knowing. and there's some really cool science on that that's worth looking into if you haven't gone to HeartMass website like fucking check them out. You don't need to buy anything from them

but if you want, go for it. And really the meditation piece that they teach is that one to one ratio out to in which is supposed to get you into more of that alpha, you know, early theta, not a deep meditation. Yeah. It's not, it's not, you know, vagus toning where you're doubling the exhale to the inhale.

Yep. It's equal parts in, equal parts out. and rhythmic, and you can do that with other people. Like, there's a guy I just had on Nick Sweeney where he's, you know, creating an app where the most amount of people, he wants to get as many people in the world to meditate with each other twice a day at the same exact time and to come into this heart coherence. Right? So, like, that's such a dope piece.

And like here we've scientifically proven, there's an important thing that can happen with that. And it feels fantastic. It's a natural high, right? So I think you brought up a couple of points that are really important. One, it's like the old Confucius say, do what you're. love and you'll never work a day in your life right like how do i you know like how do i eliminate any excuse any mind virus excuse and why i can't do the thing that i fucking love

yeah and make it work right i should be focusing on how do i make the thing that i love work rather than how do i learn to love the thing that that's paying me well but i don't love right that's that's that's trying to fit a round peg and a squirrel right and then this other piece when i'm doing it with the people that i love right then now now there's some extra a layer to it. You know, my favorite times that on it

were in Aubrey's office with a gang of dudes and girls and just feeling completely free. Like we would, I can say this now because On it's sold a long time ago, but maybe it's not the best thing to stay because of,

you know, Aubrey's status as of late via the podcast, but like we would, we could fucking rag on each other. It felt like a locker room, you know? And like, girls didn't care.

They were bashing, you know, bashing us and flirting and having fun. And it was like, this is fucking great. HR's like 10 yards away no one's getting upset. No one's going walking over there and saying Kyle said this or

that. Like it was fucking freeing, you know? And it was like such a cool time to create an environment like that. It was really unique and special. And it wasn't I have, that's my only corporate job, but I highly doubt that was happening anywhere in Google or anywhere else for that matter. No fucking chance, right?

So there is something really sweet to that. And I like what you said about that higher power. Even if you just think of it as a higher power, you know, think of basic math you add more than one you start to get more than one right many hands makes light work but as you as you step into coherence with each other and raise that frequency like there's a multiple factor that's happening there that is greater than what you can create by yourself from an energy standpoint from a joy standpoint for certainly man it's well said it's really well said

you know and my whole thing and you know what i've done in the past and leading me to this point of this flow state research was just basically being curious of why nobody could ever give me the answer and think about this like there's there's me hi chick sent me hi you know the godfather of flow in the 80s he had his eight characteristics of flow Stephen Kotler takes it to another level he has his 22 cues of flow is riser Superman but if you really break that down and really pay attention is there anywhere in any of that that says hey here's a way to train to get into flow state more regularly and stay in this state of mind longer and there's not they talk about these flow experiences they talk about cues that could put you into a closer state to possibly

potentially get into flow but there's no rhyme or reason to it so in you know i was talking to some athletes and some friends and mike chandler's a friend mma fighter and i was interviewing him a couple years ago and he was telling me the story of you know seeing the guys that he was fighting his feet moving before they moved and everything like you're seeing it all happened before and he just knocked him out cold and I was like dude that's amazing how did you do that he's like I don't know just happened it's like wait what that can't be I had one fight like that and I had no clue I was gonna ask you back one fight it's actually so some of the prerequisites can be like you know and this is from like reading you know Jamie wheel stuff and Laird Hamilton like if it's scary enough

it can scare you into flow so like Laird getting on a 50 foot wave he can't think if Gabby Reese is mad at him or about a bill because he could die on that fucking wave he has to be right there right so so there's a there's a you know the fear factor maybe not fear

but like the potential threat of danger can be something that's big enough you guys know I've tried just about everything when it comes to human optimization from fasting and peptides to breathwork but the biggest breakthroughs usually come from getting your baseline right. And that starts with your brain.

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Go to T-O-N-U-N-Tonom.com. slash kkp and use the code kkp and get 10% off your first order of neuro that's tonum.com slash kkp and using code kkp for 10% off your first order i had a fight uh it was um against ricardo romero largest card i'd been i think it was a ufc 75 or something like that it was also the biggest the biggest bonuses right they're going to do a 70 or 75 000 $75 000 knockout of the night submission of the night and previously i had just won of the night's over 40k and uh which is a fucking pittance considering the amount of money that's getting pushed around the uc any here there's my rant on that so uh night before or day before

i'm cutting wait uh maybe two days before no it was the day before i'm i'm cutting wait that morning and i'm in uh you know it's in like the man villain mandalay bay or something like that and i'm like i never go in a steam room and i'm like so i'm sitting with seroni we're shooting the shit and like i'll go in the steam room with saloni going there some old guy and it's funny because like I'm more terrain theory now than virology just from I'm an interviewed guy like Alex Zach and Thomas Cowan we go in there and I'm run down and this old dude's hacking it up in the steam room and I'm like man this can't be good so go back to the sauna make weight and that night get a fever and I'm like oh shit I've never had a fever like this

close to a fight right I gained my weight back I'm up to 220 I sweat soak the sheets I roll over soak the sheets roll back soak the sheets roll back soak the sheet get on the scale I'm 205 fight day which is now I'm like holy shit dude I sweat 15 fucking pounds of water back out that's how sick I am yeah and so I know I'm I know I'm dehydrated um I know I'm not going to have endurance right and so I'm thinking about these things and the fucking fear parade just starts while I'm sitting in the locker room like fuck man I don't want to tell my coaches I'm not trying to plant seeds and shit and be like hey if I lose it's because of this so I'm just like keep it to myself right like I still got a chance here

We're warming up, and I feel like battery acid is pumping through my shoulders, just the nastiest burn, like lactate, metabolic waste, all these things. And I'm like, fuck, dude, I've got probably a minute or two before I have nothing left of round one. And after that, it's done. Wow. And so I'm walking to the kid. And I told my coaches, you know, Bob's like, why aren't you doing round one? I was like, no, no, no, I'm good. I'm good.

Like, you should fucking do one more round. I'm like, no, I'm fucking good. You know, it's the only time I argue with them on the warmup, like, don't talk to me. I'm good. That's all I'm warming up. That's all, that's it for jump rope. That's it for fucking Metwork. I'm done.

And so we walk out and I'm panicked. And there was a moment right where the cage door shuts when Buffer is about to introduce us. And it was like full surrender. Like I'm like, I'm here. I can't leave. There's no escape. I'm not going to fucking go and tell them to open the door and walk out. I'm not going to climb over the fucking fence and retreat.

The fight's going to happen. All right. Just give it your best. And with that understanding, it almost like put me in a place where like I knew I was going to lose but I had nothing to lose that's it right I had nothing to fucking lose but just hey just go out and try who fucking cares it's the only fight where I had those dynamics leading into it and the whole thing was in slow motion it was fucking wild dude like like Neo in the matrix I watch it back like I'm not

any faster but I could see everything that was happening I could see it right when he says fight and Romero comes right out to me. I know the exact distance that throw the jab in the right hand. He slips the right hand. I grab the back of his head and bury a knee right in his fucking breadbasket. Didn't know that that took him out, but he was done

right then. I see that he's hurt. I knee him a couple more times against the fence. He goes down and I just wail on him until I get peeled off of him. And like you can see like fucking pure relief like climbing the fence. Like unbelievable, you know, like it never was, it was like just pure magic. And Rogan talks to me

And I'm like, Joe, it was in slow motion. And I could see everything. It was like the fucking, the Neo and the Matrix. And it never happened before. Like, it'd never fucking get it back. Never. But, you know, that's a beautiful picture of it. But, I mean, there's so many different things coming together in one moment there for you, too.

And it is a paradoxical tension, right? Like there's that part of that, it's the extreme stress. But it's also very, you know, clarity. and comfort because you came to this point where like there was no longer a part of like were you caring about winning you were just like man I got nothing to lose and sometimes that's when it makes you the most dangerous to get into flow state there but you've obviously done the work you did the practice you knew all of that too and it's you know that's that's what every athlete is trying to chase to get back to that moment and you cannot recreate this it's not

like a, hey, it's going to happen every time. You can put yourself in the best position you can possibly be. You can also eliminate a lot of distractions. I think it's very hard for people to get into flow state this day and age too with so many distractions. So the environment absolutely matters. You create an environment where the only thing that you were thinking about was basically like, I just got to get through this. There wasn't a ton of anything. You talked about Laird Hamilton, you know, not being in a fight even when he's on his board. That's a very extreme version of it of I have to do this or I might die there's also the other part of it too of like where it just becomes effortless effort of like think about driving a car right that now becomes

flow state and that is not a difficult task of life and death experience but it is a flow state experience because you've done it so much but that's on the other side of this tension there's high stress tension but then there's also complete calm and clarity of it as well so we went into this study, and I'll give you the formula that we laid out. And I connected with these neuroscientists at Denver, and they'd worked with Peyton Manning, Bryson DeCambolo, a lot of top athletes. And I just ask them, it's like, you're doing all these QEEG brain scans. Is there anything you see in the brain that shows like these athletes have, or more flow state? And it was a heavy dose of alpha. It was, you know, that 10 Hertz that we were talking about earlier. So can we put a group through, you know,

a different, you know, training to actually train their brain. The whole goal of it, and the mission was it, was to get their brain closer to 10 hertz. So if it was lower than that, if they had, you know, didn't have enough, we'd up train them. If they had too much, we'd down train them. So think of like, you know, like somebody who's like always on the go kind of tense. Like you got to down train that. Beta, beta. Exactly. Yep, totally.

So we brought in 60 participants. We had an IRB approved study. and the formula was it for it was the first step was meta visualization and that's you know you kind of hit on it exactly earlier we talked about the breath work we're doing box breathing for four seconds in four second hold four second release four a second hold out it's about a one minute so the whole point of it was can you train this anywhere on the go because we want to be able to train it on a daily basis because there's a whole whole difference of like oh I have to get the perfect environment and everything has to be magical and perfect and that's not really really.

life. The same thing with the morning routines that people talk about now is like, you can't do 39 different things because, oh, you got kids. Like, it doesn't work that way. So to be able to train it, you know, to get closer to this state. So the meta-visualization, and that is also part of the, you're visualizing the actual thing happening. There's a lot of science behind seeing something actually in your mind and then being able to recreate it. So I spent a lot of time with Kobe and Michael Jordan's mental coach, George Mum. comfort and he said they would do that before every game they'd visualize the game how they wanted it to be and then they'd watch it again and see watch it when you know there's a turnover or missed shot or some

kind of you know storm that they hadn't planned happens because that's you know ultimately going to happen tell god your plans god your plans he's going to laugh at them right like it never goes according to plan so the meta visualization was the first part of it that took about a minute then we did autogenic mind muscle connection and that literally is just feeling connected with your body so imagine there's you know water at the top of your head and it's just flowing through every limb of your body so it's your mind muscle activation and the connection with every limb of your body so really actually it's kind of just you know centralizing the just the brain body connection lowering the central nervous system just in a relaxed state then the the next part was a bilateral tapping so to increase

if you're trying to go up for the 10 hertz it's a bilateral tapping of your temples the the down training was a bilateral tapping of your heart so different types of bilateral tapping the fourth part of it was a cross-crawled disorganization and this activates both both sides of the brain hemisphere so if it's for uptraining it the thing we had them do was high knees so high knees alternating arms alternating knees so you're doing both things similar but it's a cross-crawled disorganization for down training it, it was just like a Jefferson curl. So you're standing up straight, you're touching the opposite hand to opposite toe, and you're feeling every vertebrae, so a more relaxed. And then the last part of it was a neural connection that we talked about earlier of. Now you're just, you're giving yourself this, you know, acceptance to tap into flow state. And we actually, you know, I use it with my athletes as just a small tool. I call it tap. I'm tapping my wrist here on camera. That just is this like, hey, I'm tapping in. In that, tap actually stands for trust acceptance and presence and it's the best like you know centering reset kind of

thing that I ask athletes it's like hey give me your tap score what that means is trust they'll say one it'd be one in a hundred a hundred meaning you trust that the plan that you are currently on the process that you're doing is going to lead to the goals that you have if you trust the process of it it gives you a lot of confidence but if you don't trust it you're like oh man you're all over the place so they'll give me their score on that. The acceptance score, the A, is just, are you willing to accept that, you know, God has you at the exact spot that you're supposed to be right now here for a purpose? You're not supposed to be further. You might think you are. We often think we're supposed to be further, but that's not, we're not ready for that yet. And then presence

is just the ability to stay present in the moment without ruminating the past and having anxiety about the future to come. That's, I mean, that, that honestly is one of the hardest things to do for people in life, athletes especially. Whole books and power now, you know. Oh my God. entire books and entire sections of bookstores are based on that right i mean if you simplify flow state into one thing it is that honestly like think about a kid you know i'll go see my nieces and nephews and my niece will watch this show like bluey and just locked in bro for like three hours and i'm trying to talk to him he's just locked in like kids have that ability of that presence is much higher um so that's the that's the tap in the neural connection so we had these participants

60 participants so 20 in the in the up training 20 in the down training and 20 in the control group the control group we gave them Stephen Kotler's 22 cues of flow which are different cues for you know if you do this you could get into flow state and said do whatever you want that's the highest accepted formulaic way until now so we were getting the results back so we QEG them at the start and this is the brain scan so you see the visual image of the brain scan and we QEGed them at the end so you'd see them at the end so you'd see them. the brain scan of how their brain changed towards that. And we have seen a higher delta in, you know, certain people do it, have higher delta growth than other people. But overall, there has been a getting closer to this 10 hertz, both on the up training and down training. So it shows that you can train the brain to get closer to this flow state aspect of it. We also had, how long was the, was there duration of doing, working with this?

Yeah, yeah, three month study. So it was a three-month study. So it was pretty high-per- I mean, it was, you know, the funny thing with studies, you probably know this is like, you would love to go a year, you'd love to go two years, but managing people and on a daily basis, if they're not locked into a lab, it's like a lab rat, is difficult. But part of it was we wanted to show people like, everybody can do this. It's not just for the elite of the elite.

You can train your brain. You can live a real life that is actually busy, and you have to, do things and you have to work and you have kids and you can still get closer to this flow state that people are that that you're searching for so we also gave them you know had these surveys that I'd send out every week just asking them questions rating on a one to 10 scale of you know how calm do you feel after how content do you feel do you feel like you have more purpose that's where I think even more so than the actual analytical and data science behind the QEGs coming to play is like people were feeling

better. They were feeling like they had more purpose. They felt more calm. It's almost like a reset to these crazy wild, fast-paced lives that we live to give them to permission to just slow down a little bit. So I think there's a lot of wins in that. But to be able to train for this is actually a thing that can be done. Now, can you say like, hey, you're going to experience that type of story that you just told with fighting every time because you do this formula no but can you get closer to it yeah totally just like are you going to make every jump shot that you shoot if you're an NBA player no but the more that you practice it just like you're practicing the skills just like you're practicing how to get into flow state it will happen more regularly and you will be able to have that ability to stay in it

longer that's awesome and that you're you're writing a book on this correct yes okay yep when is the release date for it so it probably won't be until next fall. I'm still doing a lot of these interviews, so that the book is based on that study there, too, to actually show people how to do it, but then also these interviews with the Honnold's, and I'm going to run sprints with Usain Bolt.

And, like, as many, you know, want to play chess with Magnus Carlson, I'm trying to get, you know, get him in a chess game, just and then go in their world and actually do it and see it and feel it. That's so cool. That's a, I love that. It's from a, from a, that's, like, marketing and personal like bucketless shit all rolled into one you know like so awesome to do that i was always just so obsessed with that too and like any like you know wait it doesn't matter what you're

doing but like you know even when i can talk about the coffee barista but anytime i go get coffee like there's just this different feel of if i went to Starbucks first if i went to like this you know cool real like bougie coffee place like the baristas telling me he like these beans are roasted and 39 degrees Fahrenheit in Ecuador I'm like that's awesome like I don't don't care but that I don't know what you're talking about but that's so cool you're so passionate about it or like you know you know there's this guy over in Ireland probably you know just woolen sheep to make the best cashmere sweaters in the world like that's the cashmere sweater guy so I mean I think it just gives people a lot of hope too that you know you don't just have to do everything because

you know you don't just have to go be a doctor you don't just have to go do this like man if God's giving you this passion this burning passion I think it's the biggest slap in his if you go completely the other way. Right. Well, and two, I mean, God would understand, you know, if you go the other way because your parents, your teachers, every fucking person you ever met said, you're not going to make money doing that.

You need to go to here. And it's like most people are figuring that out for themselves the hard way. Oh, shit. I picked the wrong partner. Oh, shit. I picked the wrong career. Oh, shit. And I think there's enough permission now and Internet and jobs

that we didn't even know that were, they weren't around. We were kids, you know, that have opened up doorways for people to say like, oh, I can do this and sell this on Etsy. Oh, I can be a podcaster and have super dope conversations with people I really give a shit about and want to learn from, you know, it's a lesser degree of kind of what you're doing with actually getting to go do the thing with these guys. And so there are more opportunities. But I also feel like our kids should never have, you know, that same stressor of what

you're going to have to do to be successful. That lie, that bubbles burst. it has burst and so this next generation and who fucking knows what's going to be around for jobs you know with AI taking jobs and all that stuff like it's going to be different and it's going to be more it's going to have to be more artistic it's going to have to be human interface with source it's going to have to be from the heart it's going to have to be creative yeah that's the only way to beat AI at any of this stuff is to just like this is me there's a piece of me in what I'm creating and I think to your to your point you know every great person you're interviewing like

there's a piece of them in the work that they do. You get to see that. You get to feel it. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, you know, like, at life's essence of it, like, I mean, why wouldn't you want to do? What were we put here on earth to do? To just make money and be cogs in a system to do it?

No. And I think you're right. I think it is an awakening that people are seeing that you don't have to do it that way. I mean, I just, you know, hopefully, hopefully it's, it's. can go with this next generation that's it's going to be a different one for sure um yeah man and i think it's also too of like just with flow state i think i think people are just seeking to have less i think the beauty of it is i think less is more in so many ways and i find myself you know in these conversations with you know like we talk about athletes and just having fun playing free

as basic as that sounds but even just with you know leaders or you know anybody in general like how can you do less but have more of you so so basically like the essentialism you ever read the essentialism i was just going to ask you about if you've read essentialism i love that for sure number one in in work you know like if there's a work book or a book you should read and you have it and you work that book is this you anybody with a fucking job read that book it is super important. I've read it like seven times after I read it every time I'm like man I can do this of it and then I can fall back into this so you got to keep coming back into it but but I think that's the beauty and the essence of it too and it's it's you know I actually

just started this protein gummies company and this is an ad for it this is like right into flow state and the essentialism of it is so my wife was eating a chomps beef stick last December and I called her bluff on it because she hates beef jerky and I was like what are you doing and you know nothing against chomps is fine but but not for my wife and she's like well I got to get my protein and I was like who are you you've never said this in your life like what's going on so it put me down this you know this whole rabbit hole of asking everybody what they do for healthy clean ingredient protein on the go and you know I'd get some answers and no one's really happy with you know the bars but no one had like a one go-to the number one answer was

beef sticks by females and I'm just thinking like there's no wait hold on there's no way that a female is actively seeking out a glossy beef stick that you know they they probably aren't like it's once again nothing against chomps I like chomps I think it's great but women are not that's not what they're seeking out so you know and then part of the thing is too is like you know I called up a buddy of mine you know taro mutual friend who started four-sigmatic he's been on the podcast before great dude smart smartest guy in the space too so that's who I go through too. I was like, what do you think about protein and gummies? Like, why is it not out there? And he's like, you know, let me check around. I'll get back to you. He calls you back in like 20, 30

minutes. He's like, dude, there's something here. Like, you know, the need for protein is there. Like, we know it in the health and wellness space, but now the general population is starting to really understand it. And if you say protein to someone, they associate that with, oh, I'm trying to be healthy. If you say, hey, I'm trying to get my protein in, they're like, oh, you're trying to be healthy so it's it's on this you know continuing on this rise of getting protein in but one thing that we always you know myself and you know there's just so much noise out there and there were so many things that were didn't have great ingredients and would lie to you and I got this certain bar and I won't say the name of it and supposed to have this super high protein and super low calorie I was like

man that's great I mean that's that's what I'm looking for and And they're promoting his healthy ingredients, and it just tore my stomach up. And I gave it this, I mean, too much information, but the bedroom did not smell very good for a long time. So we set out on this mission to- This is the high fiber, ogliosaccharides bar, that was supposedly low-carb? Yeah, it might be. That one fucked me up, too, dude. It could be my name of a bar, but, you know.

So we set out on this mission to actually, you know, give people, the company is more or less, you know more the good less of the bad all clean ingredients um you know less calories more protein to actually have a calorie of protein ratio that was higher than this bar and we created this gummies we basically brought on this gummy goo this like mad scientists running the operations been doing it for 30 years you like think of the guy in the lab coat creating it like that's how we got two grams of protein into a gummy but you know full circle of it like it's the same concept that we're talking about is life is busy people are moving fast like how do you meet them where they're at how do you take stuff off their plate how do you make it an easy decision to give your kids a healthy snack

without having to worry if it's got you know all these sugar alcohols in it and we created this clean ingredient protein gummy no sugar tastes really good and it's protein packed on the go what are you guys sweeten with alulose okay yes so you're into alulose yeah well it helps with blood sugar management right it's one of the very few that can do that. I remember Atia talking about that back in the day, and we looked into it on it. I was, I obviously helped do supplements there when I was there, not just the podcast. So I really have geeked out on supplement manufacturing and things like that. And then as a parent, you know, like, oh, this has sucralose and asylphame potassium and all this other

bullshit, you know, but all natural flavoring. You can fucking sweeten it naturally. Like, why even go one without the other? You know, like go all in or don't go at all. But, yeah, I mean, I think that's, howlius is a fucking cool one. And, um, I'm, I'm just curious, you know, food is changing, too. And I want to see food change in a way where it's not just, you know, eat your world economic forum crickets and bugs and shit. And like, let's actually, you know, like, if we're going to make stuff, let's do make it healthy.

Let's make it a way where, like, the body responds to it in a way that's well. Protein, there's always, it's funny because, like, you know, pendulum swings both ways. And you've got people, like, oh, protein. Everybody's doing protein on this and that now. And it's like, well, that's because the world understands protein is what creates satiety. Totally. You want to feel full? and not take Ozempic, you need more protein, period.

And then if you're an athlete or if you're doing anything, of course you've got, you know, vegans and all that. But these are, you know, skinny human beings. They're not athletes or they're ultra-endurance athletes. You don't see, you know, you just don't see it. Or you've got some guy, I mean, imagine the farts of a vegan bodybuilder who's taking tons of fucking gear and he's just slamming 40 gram pea protein shakes like every two hours.

That guy has got to blow his house up. Oh, there's no doubt. I mean, we know the results of game changers. Those athletes that were on that game changers, Jackie Vetteri, like Chris Cresser did a good breakdown of that, actually. But, yeah, man, I think it's, you know, I think people are sick of being lied to in things, too, and I think there's a time of, like, be honest with what you're doing, make it clean ingredients.

You can have something that tastes good and is good for you. It actually can exist. So, yeah, I'm glad you understand the, you know, the allulose. Because it is, it's an appetite suppressor. It helps with, you know, blood sugar, regulation um and i think too with like protein it's it's not one of those fad things like you know it's it's hot obviously and maybe there comes a time when people like you know it's not as hot as it is but there's never going to be telling like hey you know what you don't need

any more protein you're good like we can get away with not having kombucha like kombucha had its run and that's cool but like you don't need it's not one of the the main things that you actually need so it's been fun man like it's um yeah it's just a whole other journey of creating this this company and we're doing it for the basis of exactly what you said of like it can help people it do good with it like give it to your kids and feel good about it have it as a guilt-free snack feel good about it boost your protein on the go feel good about it and because when you think about it like what things are out there for protein on the go other than eating a chomps bee stick and if you if you can look at yourself in the mirror and say you actually love

it and you know I know you love your beef sticks so you might I love them beef sticks but but I love gummies more. Yeah, gummies are a bit tastier, especially for the kids. Yeah, you know, it's one thing, you know, you've got to pass the kids test. So is this, is this product out now? Yeah, it is. It will be out now. It will be out now.

I mean, December 8th is the day, but we'll be out. We'll link to it in the show notes for people that want to grab gummies for themselves, for their kids, give it a try, and then we'll have you back on in a year. You're going to be here. Yeah. So we'll have you back on when your book launches. Let's really go at it. I'm stoked to dive into it and pick it apart, and we'll talk more on these topics and do it more.

Always excellent having you on the podcast. Thank you, David. Dude, honor is mine, man. Thank you so much. A pleasure, brother.