Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #437 Unleashing Potential: Blood Flow Restriction w/ Dr. Mike Debord

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

In this episode of the podcast, Kyle is joined by Dr. Mike Debord to delve into the advanced technology of blood flow restriction (BFR) and its extensive benefits. They discuss the science behind BFR, its applications in different age groups, and its potential to revolutionize athletic performance and recovery. Dr. Debord elaborates on how BFR can be especially advantageous for adolescents looking to gain a competitive edge and for elderly and injured individuals who can’t handle heavy lifting. They also touch on the historical development of the technology and highlight studies validating its efficacy. Additionally, they cover practical aspects like safe usage, the importance of achieving lactate burn, and how BFR can enhance both performance and recovery by optimizing anabolic signals without excessively stressing the body. The conversation is rounded out with personal anecdotes and practical tips for integrating BFR into various training regimens.   FULL TEMPLE RESET registration is now open. Check it out here: https://kingsbu.com/fulltemplereset The Community is coming! Click here to learn more   Connect with Dr. Mike here: All links Instagram: @b3sciences  Newsletter: [e-mail]   Our Sponsor: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to Lucy.co/KKP and use promo code (KKP) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers FREE SHIPPING and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. These are the b3 bands we were talking about. They are amazing, I highly recommend incorporating them into your movement practice.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Kyle-Kingsbury Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!

Welcome to today's podcast. We have the return of Dr. Mike DeBoard. In this episode, we dive deep into the technology of blood flow restriction. You've probably heard me talk about this. If you follow me on Instagram, you for sure see me training with these cuffs on my arms and legs. They work wonders for your physiology, for the mitochondria and your energy production of your body, for longevity, and for a whole host of things that we want, beneficial hormones, and more.

This episode, we get into some of the new science. that's coming out on adolescence using this before we, you know, I should say before we really discussed how the elderly injured people and people wanting to build muscle have a lot of benefit from blood flow restriction. Now we take this in a holding direction and we continue to dive into the ways in which it works for most of you guys listening. Obviously, there's no kids listening to this, but some of us are parents and want to know like what is the healthiest, safest, honest way to get them an edge in competition and in sport or to get them back on the field. And I think this is a, I mean, without question, one of the most important technologies to come

along in my lifetime and will represent in large part the future of sports. All right, Mike DeBoard. All right, without further ado, my brother, Dr. Mike DeBoard. Dr. Mike DeBoard, welcome back on the podcast, brother. Awesome to be here, Kyle. Thanks for having me. absolutely well we i figured we need to run this back at least annually you've been on a couple times prior one of our mutual friends introduced us uh remember the name who was a guy is it just

just yeah just in the athleticism yeah he's he's introduced me to a lot of podcast current i bet i bet yeah so i mean he told me about blood flow restriction i'd read about it years prior just to recap in cases the first time people are hearing us victor conti who was the head a Bayer Laboratory Corporation, Balco, which was responsible for Barry Bonds, Marion Jones, and a number of other elite-level athletes, you know, he went to jail for performance-hancing drugs, and basically the clear, he was getting people to pass tests without being caught, and Congress didn't like that, and the sports world didn't like that, even though I thought it was fantastic.

When he got out, he still had a wealth of knowledge on all things, performance-enhancing, things that were legal, right? Now, one of the things he was glued to is a lot of the science coming out in Japan in particular around blood flow restriction and training in a hypoxic setting. So, you know, oxygen-deprived setting. And what was different about that stuff, you know, when it came to blood flow restriction and a hypoxic weight training is that they were using weight training, right? It wasn't just from a cardio standpoint. I put on an altitude simulator or sleep in a tent. This was about strength training and changing the way our muscles work.

And so I remember that very early on, there was, there was so much science coming out, you know, two decades ago, maybe three decades ago from this stuff. But the main purposes were muscle gain, injury healing, and for older population. You know, like, to me, I was like, I'm young. I have no injuries. I can't get any other pound of muscle. So I kind of tabled it. And years later, you know, after Justin introduced us, I started working with it and obviously found there's a, the science has evolved, right? You've got all kinds of professional athletes using this.

You have guys that are highly glycolytic, fast twitch guys, explosive guys, NFL guys, basketball guys, you know, from those guys all the way to the endurance types that need, you know, to really prime the slow twitch, how this is tackling all those things. So I want to break all this stuff down to people because, you know, I've stayed glued to technology, whether that be a supplement, a neutropic, a different form of peptide. Anything that works, does it work? How does it work? Is it available to people? What are the side effects? all those things, there's been very few tools that I can think of that are this accessible to people that have this much bang for their buck. And that's one of the reasons I want to keep

inviting you back on. People are always asking me like, how do you look the way that you look? How do you do the things that you do? And I give a lot of credit to what you guys have come up with and the science behind it. So I'd love to break down all sorts of goodies there. But I just wanted to lift that up, you know, as we're going to have a deep conversation again. Thank you for what you guys are doing. You guys are doing really cool stuff. thank you well let's yeah talk about talk about some of these things talk about injuries let's talk about some of these categories of people that are working with you mentioned a great word hypoxia you know there's two things i think about that that are myths that we don't

understand hypoxia and lactic acid the first one's hypoxia look we know if you put the altitude mask on you get mitochondrial adaptation you get VO2 max why because you're putting your body in an exercise mode where there's a lower oxygen level. Well, what if you put the altitude training mask on the muscle? We'll talk about, you don't actually use a mask, but if you do that, you're going to put the muscle in a state where it doesn't have enough oxygen. And then you're going to be able to fatigue easier. So we're going to talk about that. Here's the other myth, lactic acid. It's not garbage. It's actually probably the strongest antibiotic stimulator that's ever been discovered because you're not going to get growth hormone and muscle growth and IGF1

and explosion and hypertrophy and speed. You're not going to get into what Kyle just said, the glycolic fibers. That's the type 2 fast which. You're not going to get that response without producing lactic acid. Now, you want a lot of lactic acid and you want it fast. That's really kind of the secret that we've kind of learned about human physiology. We're going to get to the tool in a second. But I think the thing you want to take away from this is two things. You have an aerobic side of exercise that uses oxygen. That's your slow twitch. That's your cardio. That's your V-O-2 max. That's your endurance. You have a fast twitch side. That's the anaerobic. It uses different fuel. It uses glycogen. You know, blood sugar, liver converts. Glycogen in your muscle produces

not only a different byproduct, lactic acid, you feel it to burn, but it produces a completely different set of responses, right? That's your fast-twitch, that's your strength. That's actually your brain health. That's actually your IGF-1 and your nerve health. It's your immune system, it's your T-killer cells, right? Why do athletes, you know, when we had that big pandemic,

why weren't athletes, end up on respirators? because they were training their fast-twitch muscles, right, which is a stimulator of the immune system. So as we dive into this technology, just know we figured out a better way to get into these two systems, your slow-twitch aerobic fibers and your fast-twitch and aerobic fibers. And I mean, every year we learn more about this, this technology is going to take you light years into the future.

Yeah, no doubt. And I love it's applicability. and from so many different levels. Let's start with the obvious. I think for a lot of people listening to this that maybe weren't pro athletes or maybe they have a goal of running a 5K or a marathon even or maybe an ultra

or something crazy, whatever that looks like for them, most people have learned about periodization and how to work through a training block to build up for something. But oftentimes now that we're older, we run in the injury. We run in a tiki tech, things that we don't heal from.

Things can derail us. us, right? And it takes a while to get back, especially the older we get. So I'd love for you to talk about, you know, what's actually happening in the body that allows training this way to heal injuries quicker and to get us back into sports faster. Well, let's just take a quick look, right? Blood flow restriction. Here's the first thing, right, we're going to talk about, right? We want to allow arterial inflow. We don't want to interrupt that. Please don't use a $39 turnicit, you know, on Amazon. Don't do that. Uncomfortable. Very painful, not safe.

Here's what we want to do. Allow arterial inflow, slow down venous outflow. Everybody look at that. Outflow, slow it down. That major vein is close to the surface in the upper thigh and the upper arm. Okay. Now, when you slow down outflow, you automatically slow down the flow of oxygen in and out of the muscle. You take the oxygen and you basically lower it.

Now, what is adaptation? How do you adapt? You all know that you can't exercise at a six when blood oxygen is flowing at a tent, walking around the track, you can't go and do anything, right? You're exercising or using oxygen at a six. If you run the stadium stairs and crush it, you're using oxygen in 11. It's real simple. You're using more oxygen that is being flowed into the muscle. You're creating hypoxia, right? but that comes with a price. What if we just cut the oxygen in half? Exercising at a six is now creating fatigue like an 11.

One more time. Slow down venous outflow, not cut it off. Got to use the right kind of man. Okay? Reduce oxygen. Now you can create fatigue or drop in oxygen in a muscle with dramatically less load. That's secret number one. Here's secret number two. Here's what the athletes need to know. When you go up here to an 11, it's hard to stay there. You're 20 years old. You can stay there, right? You can grunt and scream and yell and people can push you. Right. But when I met Kyle, right, there's a price tag being paid for being up there, right? From his past and injuries, right? When we cut the oxygen down to a five and you only have to exercise at a medium intensity level, you can stay.

in fatigue. That is the whole secret that athletes have figured out. You're now creating deeper and longer hypoxia, deeper, and more lactic acid. Let me give you an example. I'm in the gym doing biceps. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. There's the burn. Eight, nine, stop. That was five seconds a burn. I got news for you. That's not going to produce much growth hormone. Right? Now, I dropped the weight from 40s down to tens. Why? I got the bands on them. blowing down oxygen. I'm one, two, three, four, five. Wow, my arms are burning. I hacked into lactic acid, but it's only 10 pounds. Look what I'm doing. Eight, nine, 10, 11. I'm staying in lactic acid as if my buddy's standing next to me, spotting me and yelling at me, don't stop.

And this more production of lactic acid is where all the change come from. We all know the people that just do a couple seconds of lactic acid don't change like the athletes crushing it right so you can stay in the burn thus you produce a bigger volume of lactic acid and i got news for you you don't change and adapt because you're lifting a heavy weight you change and adapt because you use the heavy weight to produce lactic acid you know if you curl tens you're not going to get anything you got to curl the 40s right but because there's less oxygen we are using a lighter weight and you can stay in the burn. This is the biggest secret. More lactate, more lactic acid equals more blood lactate, signaling more growth hormone. It's like you're doping,

but you're doping on your own growth hormone. So here, Kyle, implements BFR. He no longer has to worry about injuries or soreness the next day. Heck, he's never even sore. But he's crushing a workout in a short period of time and producing more lactic acid in a shorter period of time in a 10-minute workout than he can get in an hour. And his blood lactate level goes up and we can actually measure that, but his growth hormone levels climb. That's secret number one. Now, here's the second secret that we're really evolving on. When you're 18 or 20, you can crush a workout and you don't get a lot of cortisol.

Cortisol is the inflammatory hormone, the stress hormone. But when you get into your 30s and 40s, you all know if you crush a workout, you're going to pay a price. What are you doing? You're producing cortisol. So watch this, this formula I teach. Kyle can go get a plus five. He can crush a workout. Let's call that a plus five anabolic signal.

Tons of lactic acid, big growth hormone release. But he is stressing his body. He's got some arthritis. he's got some injuries, and he creates a four cortisol. What is five minus four, everyone? You got to take into account, positive anabolic signal. Stress is a negative signal. Five minus four is a one.

Kyle's a plus one antibiotic. Excuse me, plus one anabolic. And he's sore next day. Now, watch this. Kyle puts on the BFR man's. He reduces the load in time, and he gets the same five. Look, Kyle can go crush an hour workout. He can go get growth hormone any time he wants. He's a, you know, he's an ex-UFC fighter and a lot of you can. But now he's using BFR. He gets the same plus five, but he's doing it with very little stress. The stress is a one. What's five minus one? He's a plus four antibiotic. Kyle went from a plus one antibiotic to a plus four. And he can confirm this, but I'll tell you what he probably felt, more pump, more boring. less soreness, more energy, sleeping better. It's like he started juicing. Yeah. He cranked up his

anabolic signal without the stress. Anybody wonder why LeBron's going into his 23rd year and plays like he's 18? Now, I don't know the guy, but I know the trainers that put him in the bands, right? He does BFR. At 40 years old, he still crushes a growth hormone signal, but very little stress. He's in a very positive anabolic environment. He's 40 playing on growth hormone like a 20 year old when the other 40 year olds are feeling like they're 40. And that is these two secrets about BFR that just absolutely change the game, you know, when you apply it. That's huge. I love that you broke that down. It's simple math for me to follow. You know, a lot of people have heard about peptides like BPC 157, things like that. I think they're great. Human growth hormone is great. I took it when I was in

college very expensive is a thousand bucks a month and really not not sustainable by by anyone's dollar amount that I think is worthwhile all right guys quick break to tell you about what I've been up to this year has been a year of transition for me with the fit for service making huge changes I've been working to create my own community I still don't have a name for it yet that is in the works I'm brewing on it but one of the things that I have come to understand is what this community is about And so I want to give you a little hint here and let you guys drop in. I'd love to get your feedback. And there's a link at the top of the page here if you guys are interested at all.

All right. So join in a transformative journey with our exclusive community where a like-minded individuals come together to explore the realms of body, mind, and connection. For $150 a month, you'll gain access to a treasure trove of wisdom from hundreds of podcast guests, a lifetime of learning and human optimization, and the teachings of legends like Paul Check, James Clear, and so many others. Reconnect with your inner compass and discover the freedom, health, and sovereignty that await. Embrace the journey to excellence because we are what we repeatedly do.

If that interests you, peep the link in the show notes for the community, and we will get you guys locked in. All right, back to the podcast. What we're talking about is a pulse. It's a signal that you can tell. The brain reads the body. Somebody was telling me once, you know, the reason you want to train full body instead of just, you know, the arms or just calves or you know, whatever the small muscle group is, is that if I hammer my biceps and I go to sleep, that feedback loop is going to see a certain percentage of damaged muscle.

And it doesn't matter how bad I beat my arms up, right? It's going to see a very small percentage of muscle. We're at leg day, if I can couple that with other things, like now I have a whole lot of larger percentage of muscle and that my hormones will respond accordingly because of larger percentage of breakdown. And so understanding that early on, like, oh, shit, man. And a lot of my strength coaches at Arizona State knew this. And beyond that, we might have a focus like bench or squat or dead left as the main focus,

but we were hitting accessories that hit the entire body. And now I've been training with Connor Milstein, who was Jordan Burroughs coach and the U.S. men's wrestling team for the Olympics for the last two years. And we've done a lot of body weight stuff, but it's always full body. And I just thought this was such a perfect pairing with that because I'm coming to a point where I can hit jumping lunges without fatigue. And I can just keep going. You know, obviously, if I go past, you know, I'm sure if I did it for a few minutes, I'd be pretty blasted.

But I can hit a few sets of 30 seconds or 40 seconds with BFR on. My legs are absolutely fried. I look like Tom Platt's. You know, I'm walking around like a penguin, you're prime off me. And I feel great. And two days later, I'm ready to run and get back to it. You know, so that there is, you know, it may not be a one-to-one in the math reference of the way that you're using it. But it really does resonate because the difference in.

stress load from working out high intensity but shorter duration right we talked about that you know on previous podcast you don't have to work out for long in fact you shouldn't train for very long if the blood flow restriction is on and um perhaps you can update us on that but i thought it was somewhere around 22 minutes max was was uh what i thought before you know i may extend that when i'm doing mMA training or something you know i have a 40 minute boxing workout sometimes i'll leave them on for 30 or even 40 minutes but for the most part there's peaks and flows to that When I'm doing something where it's full body and I'm getting after it, I never go longer than 20 minutes.

I don't need to. You know, we were doing, I did sprints with my son the other day. I'm out to do a post on this on Instagram where he used my wife's gear for his arms and legs. We did agility ladder stuff. I was telling you before the podcast that he just started football. And I'm thinking about your son, who I want to talk about here, has done such so many remarkable things using, utilizing this new science. And so we're doing agility ladder in the dojo.

You know, single leg jumps up and down, two steps in, two steps out. All the fancy stuff to get a good, to get a good warmup, activate the body. All right, now we're going to burn ourselves before we go sprint. And so he looks at me like he wants to cry. I was like, let's do jump, jump, let's do jump squats. So we do, you know, a minute and a half of jump squats and we're fried. Now we go outside at a slight upgrade. We hit 10, 10 yards sprints.

We hit 5.20 yards sprints and we hit 5.40 yards sprints. You know, to me, that was one of the best run workouts I've had. I know, every, every muscle that I wanted, you know, Connor talks about that. Your quads and your calves are decelerators, but your hamstrings, your ass and your adductors, those are your accelerators, right? And I had, I was sore in the perfect places, hip flexors from drive. I mean, everything was on fire. And he had a great workout.

It felt, you know, and I can just see, like, here's a tool that we have. And I don't, I'm not playing anymore. I'm also not a trophy kid, dad, where I'm like, oh, my son's going to be the next Tiger Woods. He could be a, he could be a concert pianist or a, he likes, he likes, he likes, he likes, violin. That's fine too. But having the tools is exciting to me. Having the tools, seeing the success of your son and many others, and also knowing like, man, if I had this tool when I was young, you would have changed the game. But at least I have it now because at 43, I can still run sprints and do cool shit that I didn't think was possible. Here's another thing to look at.

I like visuals, right? Let's go over here. This is your human potential. And this is where you're at. Here's where an elite level athlete is. They're like at 90% human potential. Here's where Kyle was, right? Here's where we are in our middle age, right? You know, we can't crush a workout every day like we used to, right? And then over here you got kids, right? Kids aren't, the kids aren't mature enough to know how to go train like an Olympic athlete. So they're here. And then you got seniors. So you got this scale from zero to 100, and over here's human potential. Okay. So recently in July of 2025, two months ago, an adolescent study was done on BFR.

And I want to encourage you to all go type in adolescents and BFR. And it hands down showed that BFR is far superior. Number one, it's less load, less stress, doesn't strain the growth plates. We're talking about 10 to 19 year olds. But look at the difference. Because the BFR is on, we slow down the oxygen, we get into the fast switch muscles with less work. They can train at a higher level of fatigue. They're not mature enough without the bands to go get this fatigue,

but you put the bands on, and they get a fatigue like a high score college athlete and they're 10 years old. Now, think about that for a second. We don't have to discuss what's going to happen. You know what's going to happen. I'm going to jump higher, run faster, explode. So my son, my son is 17 years old. He's been training, I started him training when he was 8, Vertimax, everything you can think of

for speed. He's running 19.4 miles an hour, fastest 40 times of 4 or 6.2. He's right here as a high school athlete, right? He's not trained like an Olympic athlete. All we do is put the bands on. We don't change the movements, ladder, hill climb, vertemax, right? Zoids, right? And he hits a different level of fatigue in a shorter period of time.

I remember the first time he put him on at 17. He's on the ground going like, I've never felt that before. But in six weeks, he went from 19.2 to 21.1 miles per hour. And he went up to Ohio State ran a 435 in six weeks. Now, did we cheat? No. We just took him from working out like a high school kid to an Olympic speed person because we're able to get the fatigue an Olympic athlete sprinter gets, but he's got the maturity of a high school athlete. We hacked in to the muscles and reduce the oxygen. And every time we put this on a young athlete, same thing happens. Let me give me another story. Let's go to the other end of the spectrum.

40-year-old national competitive roller blade sprinter. Her name's Christina Chambers. She was a national champion when she was younger, and she's trying to win the 100 meters in national inline speed skating sprint. This is really competitive stuff. So she's fastest times at 10.5. Just happened to meet her through one of our many chiropractors that are doing it. She comes on the call.

And I said, Christina, you're training right here. What if we took you to the Olympic Training Center, Christina, and put the harness on you and trained you until you passed out? Well, I'd get faster. Well, Christina, guess what? We're going to put the bands on. She got it right away. And she fell it in the very first workout.

six weeks, she went around a 9.9.8. She took a half a second off and smoked it, won a gold medal. Okay? That's the same thing that happens every time we see a human body put the bands on. Sedentary, your exercise will take you here. We're going to get you over here. Older person, you can't lift the heavy weights anymore. It's going to be like you're lifting heavy weights again. Kyle, right? You used to be able to train here. He's got a little age on him, a little arthritis. Got to be careful. we moved him right back here so i'll tell you man i feel 20 years younger my growth hormones elevate right that's what bfr does it closes that gap on being able to exercise at human potential because it's reducing it's reducing time and load and basically you know how much work you got to do to get there yeah i love that and i love that you know as you talked about your son that all the things that we know about the training tools they still applied right vertamax is a great thing to use so so many of the tools that we've made available, you know, from, from Russian science and different people, you know, bringing it in. It's like, yeah, absolutely. Apply those, apply the same tools.

I love, you know, like if I want to get, you know, a good workout in for strength and conditioning, I know some exercise I can do there, but if I want to get really sports specific, I need to punch something. I need to punch and kick and do what I would do as a striker. So how do I improve that? Well, instead of training for an hour, right, or an hour and at two hours, like we used to an American kickboxing academy, I can go in and in 20, 30 minutes, be completely spent and in a way that would have taken me the whole two hours. And the whole rest of the day, I'm better for it because I didn't burn the candle at both ends.

I didn't attempt to do what I did in my 20s and 30s. I recognize them 43. Let me get this over with quicker. And what's cool about that is that my body doesn't tell the difference. All it tells is like, holy shit, we got taxed. but the stress response is lowered so now i'm left in that higher anabolic window at the same point i have more energy throughout the rest of the day right like i'm not i'm not so exhausted that i can't go work or can't have a podcast like i literally just did this uh bfr workout this morning for for striking

with my good buddy eric von right when we did a good solid 40 minutes you know and then here we are i've got complete access to my brain i'm ready to get shit done because most people in in my shoes whether you were professional athlete or not, if you love lifting weights or love working out, you've still got other things on the schedule that are perhaps more important, you know, responsibilities to get to. And so I love the fact that I can hit something hard

in a short duration, get the most out of, the most bang for my buck out of those workouts and still have, you know, accessibility, mental accessibility through the rest of the day where I can be sharp, I can be on it. I'm not fatigued mentally. It doesn't take away, you know, from all the other things that I need to get done.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, it goes right back to what we said. Kyle's just explaining to you that I can still crush a workout and get the antibiotic signal. I just don't have all the stress with it. I don't have the soreness. I don't need the ice.

I don't need the ibuprofen. I don't need the caffeine hit two hours later. I sleep better. My circadian rhythm picks up. I don't have a lot of inflammation in my muscles from microteran, which isn't what actually happens. But we'll just leave it at Mike because there's inflammation. He doesn't have all that.

So you basically eliminate the need for recovery. And if you start looking around the sports world, anybody ever see the picture recently of Al Perez, the number one tennis player walking off the court with a BFR band on? What was he doing? He was getting a real quick pump after a four hour, three hour, two hour tennis match and turning on nitric oxide and growth hormone. It's a recovery hat. Philadelphia Eagles started this.

You know, when they did their championship run here about a year ago, there's a picture of them all on bikes in the training room talking to the media. They're not sitting there at their locker. They're on the bikes with the BFR on. Granted, they're on the $5,000 BFR bands that you don't need, right? But they got, you know, millions of dollars, right? And they're doing BFR. Why are they doing that? We are now actually seeing that we've figured out that you don't.

you shouldn't be icing afterward. You should be going and getting nitric oxide. Nitric oxide thins the blood, rushes blood in, and it flushes everything out and repairs. Now, if you got an acute injury, I'm not saying don't ice. But look, everybody pay attention to Major League Baseball games. Look in the dugouts.

You'll see a pitcher after he gets taken out. And the teams that are advanced, they figure you'll see a BFR band. You'll go, oh, look at that. We have taken this huge. huge jump forward in how we approach the body and how we access these recovery systems, these anabolic systems with BFR. I love that. We've talked about, you know, I love the recovery side of sport changing and getting, becoming more advanced. The fact that I definitely want to peep that,

maybe you can send me that and I'll link to it in the show notes for the study on adolescence and BFR. It would be really cool to be able to show. especially with Bear being 10 now. And yeah, just what you explain there. I think it's important for any parent to understand. It's like pulling teeth to get your kid to do some hard workout. That's just that's standard for everybody. It's not your kid.

It's just all kids in general. And kids are lazier now than they've ever been. But that said, you know, there's different ways to reward them. And I think one of the ways they get the reward is in the feeling of when a kid can learn, get to the burn, push through the burn. they've already jumped ahead of 90% of the people at their grade, right? Because that takes years. You know, my football coach used to call us puppies.

He said, oh, you're still a puppy, right? You're not a big dog yet. You're still a puppy. And it would piss me off. But in hindsight, I get what he was saying. He meant, you know, how hard are you hitting? How hard are you willing to push yourself? And, you know, do you, how do you carry yourself?

Do you understand yourself as a big dog? Are you still kind of with your tail between your legs? And I think one of the ways that we take young athletes, and turn them into mature athletes, it's in that stepping stone of figuring out, I have to listen to my body and no one is enough is enough, but I also paradoxically have to find that edge and push myself through it, right?

And what this allows us to do is it allows us to find that edge and push through it without the risk of injury, without the risk of going for too long, right? And without the risk of beating the body up to a point where now it's going to take me, you know, weeks to recover. If I'm doing a deadlift max at this age, that might be three weeks. before i can do anything else yeah you know my nervous system won't handle it right but i can do you know

light kettlebell swings uh broad jumps i can do a whole bunch of different things that still get that posterior chain locked and loaded and i'm able to do that daily i'm able to go through those things daily and that makes me faster helps me jump quicker i feel lighter on my feet and younger and uh so there's a trade off there but i think it's a valuable trade off but anyway i think that's such a a cool that's almost like a trick like a way to trick kids is like hey we're going to do this This is going to be very short. It's going to work. You know, it'll make you stronger.

It'll make you jump higher, make you faster, get you all the things you want. But we're going to have to push through a little bit of pain here. You know, and so it's been cool to see that with my son because there's no workout a 10-year-old can do if they're in shape where they're going to be spent after it. You know, watch these guys play, you know, two-hour game come home and then antagonize his little sister because he's still got so much pent-up energy. It's like, there's just inexhaustible until you do something like BFR and you're like, now we're tapping into a play. that you haven't reached before. All right, guys, quick break to tell you about one of our longest running show sponsors, lucy.co. Let's level up your nicotine routine with Lucy.

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And it's about a 45-minute window of awesomeness. And there you go. Lucy.com slash KKP for 20% off. In nine years, so everybody knows, I've done over 3,000 BFR sessions. You know, I've seen more than anybody, probably other than Dr. Sado in Japan, just been fortunate, 60,000 people. And let me tell you what I see. And I figured something out.

You put the bands on the kids, right? They're already exercising. Look, if they don't exercise, don't put the bands on. But if they're already exercising, you put the bands on. And 90% of them are going to go, they're going to get this. like that. And they're going to be like, come on, look at my muscles. That's your indicator right there that they're going to go with it because they love it. They love the pump and they'll dive right in. Now, if the 10% go, oh, I don't like the barn. Well, you know, you probably,

probably might have to think about some other kind of sport. But it's so quick and so efficient. It's like, when my son did it, he's like, when can we do the bands again? When can we do the bands again? They know. They know. And then it's like Kyle said, it's going to be unfair to the other kids that aren't using it. It's like when we found BFR and the Japanese athletes. We were blood testing and blood testing. This is Dr. Jim, my buddy, couldn't catch them. What are they doing? EPO. You know, couldn't figure out what they're doing. He caught them secretly doing BFR. Every other athlete was training normal. They were training with BFR. They had an advantage. Same thing is now happening at the adolescent level. If there's a kid doing BFR, it won't be fair to the other kids who are training the old way.

It just won't be fair. Now, it doesn't mean they're going to put the ball in the hoop or kick it in the goal, right? But physically, it's not going to be fair. And, you know, I've just seen it so many times now, six inches on a Utah volleyball player, right? You know, kids kicking the soccer ball, striking further, you know, doing pushups, you name it. um you know they get faster stronger and they recover better and most love it they dive right in i mean when your kid does it he's probably like oh my gosh dad right he just loves that he wasn't excited about the jumping lunges just because of how effective that burn is but at the same time as

i'm only got one set of these i'm not gonna i'm not gonna i'm not gonna force you into do anything you know i myself will do a few sets but one is good no we can go get these sprints in which is really what he wanted to do is sprint so yeah um but yeah you know and that's that's that's part of being a 10 year old right at 13 it's going to change at 17 a 17 year old athlete who's serious about their sport they damn sure know what to push themselves whether they're in wrestling football any major sport where they're used to have and coaches you know push them to their limit you know and then you get a piece of technology like that it's like holy shit you I can feel the difference I feel the I feel the lactate I know what that

means right I know if I can get there before that meant greater success in the future and now you're getting there faster and more dramatically you know like I'm in a had big pumps in the gym probably since football because the nature of training for me had a change when I was reducing my body weight as a fighter. I didn't really train for hypertrophy anymore. And I missed out on some of the muscular endurance things of going high volume, but enter BFR, I'm getting the muscular endurance. I'm getting a wicked pump. So, you know, the volume is there. Like everything just, it feels, it looks good. It's like Arnold, you know, Arnold in a, you know, on stage. Everywhere I go, I'm calming. I'm coming at home. I'm coming in the gym. I'm coming in

stage you're like that's what the pump feels like it's just that good you know and it changes neurochemistry for the rest of the day it's why we chase it oh yeah yeah and i remember you tell me your story kyle of all the joint issues that started to go away right so you got two factors here right number one you're reducing pounding into the joint that in itself is going to help the joint feel better but one of the biggest problems as we age is joints muscles tendons ligaments, they lose bug flow. The circulation deep into those tissues, the microcirculation, is reduced. We know this because all these circulation-based therapies we do, they have temporary benefits, EMF, lasers. Those are all things to try and improve micacirculation. Well, you have the

greatest microcirculation system ever developed. It's called nitric oxide, sitting right in the lining of your blood vessels. You're not going to produce it because you eat. beats, right? Now, you need to eat nitrates, but that just forms nitric oxide. Inside the endothelial lining of your arteries is E nitric oxide,

endothelial. Now, when you get it by creating a deep hypoxia, not just elevate heart rate and breathing, you're not going to get it with steady state cardio. You're going to get it with real quick, fast hypoxia. Boom, nitric oxide is released. Look what happens. Your blood vessels

all open. Dezoidylate. your blood fence. You get this rush of blood into deep tissues that weren't getting before. And you're like, my shoulder doesn't hurt. I don't have the rings around my socks I used to have when I take my sock. Yes, you've improved your microcirculation. And that starts having a lasting effect. And Kyle, tell you, my knee pain started going away. And this chronic tendonitis started getting better. That system, very few people know how to access it, and most it's not attainable because steady state cardio doesn't do it. I'll give you a little secret here. There's two types of response to cardio. There's elevated heart rate and breathing, right? That comes from just a

mild hypoxia. So look at this. You are using more oxygen and flowing. You're in hypoxia. Heart rate kicks up, breathing kicks up. Here comes more oxygen. Then you're back down here in steady state cardio. You got more oxygen and it's flowing and you keep going, right? It's kind of like Forrest gum. Forrest went for a run and he just kept running. He was here. Now the BFR is on. So the oxygen is lower. So boom, you're into hypoxia. You're doing steady state cardio, elevated, breathing, elevated heart rate. But it does not bring the oxygen back up.

Your body goes, okay, we got to do stage two. Boom, there's your nitric oxide. The body's going to thin the blood, open the blood vessel, so it can get the oxygen there faster. And guess how long it takes to get it? 30 seconds in the BFR man's. I mean, right now, most people can't get in a 45-minute cardio session. And boom, you're blasting nitric oxide. That's why Kyle likes to do starters with BFR.

He puts them on, gets a little hypoxia, big nitric oxide flush, takes them off, and it's like somebody just hit him with rocket fuel on caffeine and deep heating pads everywhere. He's all warmed up. It's called a starter. That is an absolute game changer. But here's what happens next for seniors watching. Your body goes, uh-oh, you might do that again. Never noticed. you do 10 pushups, keep doing it, you do 15, your body goes, I'm going to make you better the next time. Guess what your body does when you start getting nitric oxide, and this is all proven through science. It starts stripping the atherosclerosis out of your arteries. It starts reversing

hardening of the arteries and lowers blood pressure. We got an 87-year-old lady that Dr. Nathan Steinbram is grandma. She's stage five kidney disease. She's a 14EGFR. She got high blood pressure. She's got high blood sugar, okay, puts her on the BFR, doing little, little one pound dumbbells. Blood pressure comes down from 160 to 125 systolic pressure. Blood sugar drops from 150 to 110. And her kidneys start filtering blood goes up. She turned on nitric oxide. She got better blood flow.

Her heart's pushing easier because the blood vessels are open. And she's into her fast-twitch muscle fibers. You know how you fix blood sugar problems, everybody? You know how to fix insulin resistance? You've got to get into your fast-touch muscle fibers and use the glycogen so that your body, which puts 50% of dietary intake of sugar, remember this, 50% of your dietary intake of sugar is meant to go into your glycogen reservoir. If you're never tapping your glycogen reservoir, you're never in the fast-twitch,

all that sugar's running around. She starts tapping her fast-twitch at 87 years old, tell him Dr. Nathan, I feel the burn. Boom, down comes the blood sugar. And, I mean, these are the systems you have in your body that we, unfortunately, don't pay attention to, right? We don't pay attention to what could exercise do. Well, number one, because it's not attainable.

We're not going to take an 87-year-old lady and get her in the burn, right? She's not going to be able to do that. So, I mean, once you figure this out, well, I mean, it's like Kyle said, man, it's a mind-blower. you know what you can do with the body and especially seniors and and i would encourage you seniors go start reading the science go out to our website and start reading this science chronic kidney disease study on bfr chronic obstructive psalmonary disease study on bfr type 2 insulin diabetes study on bf r parkinson's case study on bfr why because these systems of accessing your nitric oxide an access in your growth hormone reverse, they reverse aging. They take the body back to our more

normal homeostasis the way you were designed. Yeah, I was, I was curious about that. I've got my dad some bands and he's had, you know, mixed reviews from traditional general practitioners to say, you have elevated, you know, elevated blood pressure. That's the last thing you should do is put on bands. So hearing this is awesome, hearing that that's in fact, the opposite is true. And I'm sure, you know, the doctor that's chatting with you is probably more advanced than a general practitioner, if you could already understand, you know, science behind blood flow restriction and things like that. But that's really good to hear. It's good to hear that, you know, the, the remedy to that problem is to actually go head first into it, right? Let's strap you in

and get you going again. And I think that that's a great thing, too, for knowing what it can do for elderly folks just due to the fact that they can't back squat heavy. They can't do a lot of things that they used to be able to do. And to be able to give them a burn from one pound dumbbells or from 25 pound band, you know, and all the things you can do with that. I mean, that's a pretty cool thing. You know that that's the bailable, right? Oh, yeah. And look, this is all, everything I've told you is based on science. Kyle's going to give you a website, go out to his website at B3 science, go into the senior section, go into the science section. We got a doctor's review page. I made a doctor's review page. So these doctors that think this is a bad

thing. There's like 20 studies, safety peer reviews, Harvard studies. and I've had thousands of doctors go to that page and I've had this many come back and say don't do it. You know why? Because, you know, we don't all, you know, in our world, me and kind of hanging out in, we don't necessarily always agree with the allopathic doctors, but let me tell you what they don't do.

They don't ignore science. And you can't argue with BFR. I've never had one come back and say, don't do that. They all go, oh, and then a lot of them start doing it. By the way, everyone, 60% of all orthopedic surgeons are now recommending BFR post-surgery. 60%. 98% of the thousands and thousands and thousands of physical therapists across the country now doing BFR. We've helped a bunch of them.

98% said it's either more beneficial or way more beneficial. Think about that. 98% said this is the better way. You go into any professional training room, and they're all doing BFR. At every single level, they no longer are doing it the old way, right? This is a advancement in rehab. It's an advancement in exercise. It's an advancement in performance.

And it's an advancement in health. And what Kyle's figured out, there's no rocket science here. We still got to do the same stuff, right? If I'm a boxer, I'm on box, endurance, I'm going to do endurance. I've just got a tool that's going to allow me to do it quicker, easier, and more efficient. That's all. The protocols don't change, right? The lifting moves, the run, the hit, the sprint, the jump, the throw, the golf, hit golf balls with it.

And you're going to adapt faster and quicker. Hell yeah. I love it. Well, what, did we miss anything today, man? We do such a good one. I always love chatting with you because you're able to get so many awesome points across in such a short period of time. Is there anything, you know, you'd like to say about BFR or anything else we left off the table? Yeah, I, you know, I'm not going to take credit for the BFR industry because

that's Dr. Sato and Dr. Jim. I'm just smart enough to follow it and implement it. Let me tell you something that I have figured out. Because I've traveled around and I measure blood lactate. And for you, you science nerds out there, you want to dive in, go on the Amazon, get a $199 blood lactate monitor you put the strip in you prick the ear you just touch it like blood sugar right you measure blood lactate it's going to be around 0.8 to 1.2 and then you measure it within one minute after exercise what are we trying to do here's the new science athletes you're chasing lactate you're not chasing volume you're not chasing load you're chasing lactate lactate is the signal so if you start measuring

it, you can actually see. And here's what I've figured out after measuring hundreds of people. And an elite athlete can get about five minutes of total burn. Okay. So for example, I'll go do a workout and in 45 minutes, I'll get accumulation of five minutes of burn. I'm in the burn for about 12% of the time. Now, what would happen if I got that five minutes of burn in a 10-minute exercise. That's called the 50% rule that I've developed. What does it mean? The lactate first gets cleared in the mitochondria. One, two, three, oh, there's the burn. The mitochondria are clearing this lactate in the interlactate shuttle. If I step on the gas and I keep producing it, the mitochondria can't keep up. The lactate spills over into the blood. We are trying to elevate blood lactate by producing more

lactic acid that can be temporary clear. Here's the secret. 50% of the time you are in the band's exercising be in the burn and you will produce way more blood lactate and you'll get way more growth hormone. So short a rest, combine movements, move quick, stay in the burn. I have people do five-minute workouts, it's legs. And I mean, once the burn starts and now it's developed into chill loco. But once a burn starts, you don't stop. Lunge, squats, kicks, calf raises deadlift, and you just keep going. You never leave the burn. You're producing so much lactate. It's dumping in the blood. And we're producing lactate levels of 700 to 1,000% increase. You know who hangs out there? The Olympic athletes. Not sedentary people.

And all these people, I got all their results, right, are producing lactate like they're an Olympic athlete in a five to eight minute leg workout with no weights. And I mean, their whole world changes. Why? Because they figured out how to get lactate. So remember this. If you want to see faster changes, put the bands on, right? Go quick. Quick example. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Stop counting reps. Eight, nine, ten. There's the burn. Go for 20, 30 seconds. Count seconds. stay in the burn at least 20 to 30 seconds, take a 30 second break, dive back in. I don't care if it's 40, 30, 20, or 2010, 15. If you didn't burn, it doesn't mean anything.

So if you get the burn for 20 seconds, take a break, 20 seconds, take a break, 20 seconds, take a break, 20 seconds take a break. One, three sets of bicep, that's one minute of burn. Three sets of triceps, that's two minutes of burn. Front shoulders, rear shoulders, there's four minutes of burn. Some quick rows, a little rope burnout, five minutes. minutes of burn. Five minutes of burn or lactic acid is where you get to your maximum peak. For sedentary people, you want to get to at least two minutes. You get two to three minutes of burn in a five to ten minute window and you're going to produce growth hormone like you're an Olympic

athlete. And it's real simple. Just pay attention to the time you're feeling the burn and the time you're not feeling it. And you want to measure that, you know, go get yourself a blood lactate, a little blood lactate tool off Amazon and start measuring that lactate. And you will tap the anabolic signal in ways you never thought it was possible. I love that you brought that up. It's something I kind of intuitive with just understanding of time under tension from basic strength training principles. You know, they're come to a point, especially if I'm hitting some banded stuff for my arms at the end of a boxing workout or if I front load it, you know, I can usually get through three sets of 30, that kind of thing.

But what I found is if I'm super setting, you know, biceps with triceps to fry my arms before I start punching, you know, I'm not going to be able to actually get three sets of 30 with a black band. But what I'd do is I'd get however many I could. And then I hold halfway up and just hold that and breathe it through it and breathe it through it. And my hands start shaking, you know, the asymmetric. You feel when you hold, Kyle? You're feeling the pure burn, pure burn, big-ass pump. And that's like, I'm just going to hold this burn here rather than resting. Let me just hold it halfway.

Same thing on the triceps. Let me just hold that halfway. You do, you know, get the arms pre-burnt, get the legs pre-burnt, and then hold a plank or do a negative with a push-up, just a push-up, right? Just go down as slow as possible. Ben Greenfield, I was talking about that, like doing a five-minute negative. There's no way I can do a five-minute negative. But if you've already got the burn to the rest of the body and you jump into that plank

push-up and you're squeezing the abs, pulling the belly button in, getting the shoulders down, and you're slowly lowering yourself to the mat. everything is on fire. The quads are on fire. Your tibialis interior calf is on fire. Every part of the body is lit up. And it's just an easy way to stay in the burn to make sure it's full body to make sure you're getting the maximum return on investment. Oh, yeah. Let me teach everybody one other thing because I get the same question. Okay, the bands are here. I get it. I'm going to get burn up here. What about my core? Let me ask you a question. For 30 days, you're going to do planks. You're going to get some results. Now, in the next 30 days, you're going to dope. You can go spend a thousand a month and you're going to get the HGH you're going to get the whole cascade of stuff, man, and you're going to cheat.

What's going to be response in the next 30 days? Same exercise, but you're doping. You already know the answer. We figured out how to go get the dope without injecting it. You're going to go from an antibiotic state of maybe a plus one, right? Anabolic minus fatigue.

Or get more to anabolic state of a plus four. You're doping. What do you think is going to happen? When you run and jump and hit a golf ball and do your activities a daily living and do planks, you're going to get more response. So the bands don't have to be on the stomach. They don't have to be when you're hitting golf. They don't have to be when you're doing chores. You're using the bands to turn on the antibiotic signal. Now, any stimulus that is being done while you're anabolic, which is like a 30-hour period, right? You go get it. You do any other stimulus, right? Go for a walk, right? Lift, move, anything, you have all this juice, antibiotic juice running around and you're going to perform or function

or run or jump or lift more or be less sore. So this is another thing we figured out. I'm using BFR to turn on an anabolic signal. There's times when I'm going to use it in the exercise, and there are times when I'm just going to use it to get the antibiotic signal, so when I go do a non-BFR, anything,

I'm going to be better at it. And, I mean, it's like, all I can tell you is that the Olympic level, if you're not doing BFR, you're probably not competing anymore. Ever notice that they keep breaking swimming records? All the swimmers in the world are doing BFR, the Japanese

he's started and then Chris Morgan started doing it here when he was the coach and they're all doing BFR because if you're not you got no chance well brother it's been great having you back on we'll link in the show notes I've got a couple links here one is one is to go look up the science check it out and then it'd be another link here if you guys want to buy some brother I love everything you're doing I love you know what you guys have done with B3 sciences you guys got a great company and I love your wealth and knowledge and your passion behind it I think that was something that drew me to it originally after Justin introduced us was just the wealth of knowledge that you have. Like, oh, shit, I got to try this and I got to have you on the podcast.

And it's been great being able to run these back with you to refresh, you know, what are the new ideas, the new ways in which they're being used. And what are the classics for people that haven't heard us podcast before, you know, the classic understanding of why this works and why it's such a valuable tool for anyone out there. Yeah. You know what everybody else should do? You got to look at Kyle. I watch his Instagram. You see how this dude's built? I mean, just look at him.

A friend dude looks like he's 20 and he'd take you out in a UFC match with one shot and he's 43. I mean, I'm 61 and I'm just jacked and rift. And my workouts are 10 minutes and I barely grab any weight and I eat everything in sight. There's no way, no way. I got three joints replaced. I've got arthritis everywhere. 61 and looking like this, no way. It's not attainable, you know, with traditional training.

And, you know, why am I passionate? Because I want everybody to experience that. And I can tell you why Kyle. So I remember when he got him, he's like, oh, dude, this game changer. And he starts telling his, he wants everybody to feel and experience what he has figured out, right? And that's his passion to help you learn about it so you can implement it too. Thank you, Dr. Mike. Much appreciated, brother.

We'll run it back again in a bit. Yep. Awesome. Great to be here.