Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #440 Breaking Barriers w/ Dr. Andy Wakefield on Vaccines, Truth & Film

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Kyle welcomes Dr. Andrew Wakefield, a controversial figure known for his claims linking the MMR vaccine to autism. Wakefield shares his journey from a traditional medical background to becoming a prominent critic of vaccines. The podcast covers the initial study published in The Lancet, its subsequent backlash, and Wakefield’s journey through public and professional challenges. Wakefield discusses his transition to filmmaking as a means to spread his message, highlighting his documentary 'Vaxxed' and other key works. The conversation delves into the impact of vaccines on public health, the introduction and potential risks of mRNA vaccines, and broader issues surrounding vaccine policies and public trust. Highlighted are the testimonies of parents with vaccine-injured children, the legal and scientific battles against the mainstream medical community, and the importance of public awareness. The podcast also explores alternative treatments for vaccine-related injuries, emphasizing gut health and the potential benefits of cannabinoids. Dr. Wakefield expresses hope for more informed public health policies and discusses his plans for future projects, including a film addressing the long-term impacts on children left behind by vaccination policies.   Connect with Andy here: Website - Wakefield Media Group Instagram   From Kyle: The Community is coming! Click here to learn more Full Temple Reset is back with Erick Godsey, Click here to learn more   Our Sponsors: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to Lucy.co/KKP and use promo code (KKP) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers FREE SHIPPING and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. These are the b3 bands I was talking about. They are amazing, I highly recommend incorporating them into your movement practice. Go to tonum.com/KKP, use the code KKP, and get 10% off your first order of Nouro.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Kyle-Kingsbury Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!

Welcome to today's podcast. We have no bullshit, a bucketless guest. Andy, as he likes to be called, also known as Dr. Andrew Wakefield. Many people have heard of this name. If you're like me and you've gone down the rabbit hole, well, one conspiracy rabbit hole that is proving to be conspiracy fact is all the information and misinformation on vaccines. And if you follow this podcast before, you know what I mean about misinformation, misinformation. coming of course from the CDC, the FDA, and all of Big Pharma. Dr. Andy Wakefield was one of the first people that proposed a link scientifically to the MMR vaccine and autism. And this was published in the Lancet.

And within moments, you had the cascade of the whole world up this dude's ass trying to defame him, make him look like he was an idiot like he had no science behind it and really just take him through the ringer. This was before cancel culture even existed long before. it. And so we dive in his story on here. He's done so much great work. He's become a documentary filmmaker and of course did the big one that most people have seen is vaxed V-A-X-X-E-D. That was done with Del Bigtree. I think back in 2018, my son was three and it was just pure confirmation of the decision we had made to not give a single shot to our kids. So if you've been on the fence, if you're uncertain, if you want to know more, listen to this podcast. hear his story so you understand just exactly how this trust the science game works.

And there are a plethora of books. I have Aaron Siri coming on the podcast in a couple of days. Aaron Siri just wrote a book called Vaccines Amen. He is the lead or has been the lead lawyer for Bobby Kennedy and the Children's Health Defense, as well as ICANN and Del Bigtree. He's done huge work. There's books like Vax UnVax with Bobby Kennedy and Brian Hooker, Ph.D. And of course, dissolving illusions by Dr. Susan Humphreys.

That was the book that set us on this course that we're on. And we could not be happier having made this decision, understanding all of the underlying things that are linked. Not just autism, but most of autoimmune issues and things of that nature, gut issues, they're all in there. And so I'm incredibly grateful for people like Andy here who literally put their head on the chopping block publicly so they could tell the truth. you know, against every fiber of what you'd want to do socially, he did it for the benefit of humanity. So much love. And he brought his wife out. She was awesome. She stayed in here and listening on the podcast. I just had a blast with these guys. And so much gratitude for them. All right, we'll link to all his stuff in the show notes if you want to learn more or see Vax. And of course,

you know, share this with a friend. I'm getting a lot of people coincidentally. There is no such thing is coincidence in my reality. People who have been vaccine injured and people who, you know, a friend of a friend says, oh, you got to talk to Kyle or, oh, man, I, you know, I heard this thing. We have a five-month-old. What should we do right now? And I'm not here to tell you one way or the other, but I am here to say, let's examine the facts. Let's look into some of these books. Let's look into some of the actual science and the detail and the timing of things. And you'll get a lot of that here. That's what I love about this podcast is that Andy has it memorized. you know, the details, the percentages, when shit actually came out, and it's pretty jaw-dropping.

All right, without further ado, my brother, Dr. Andy Wakefield. Andy, it is great having you on the podcast. I was just telling my wife how giddy I am because, you know, there's moments in life where there's a fork in the road, you know, and you don't always look back on them and say like, oh, what would that other life, you know, be like? But considering everything that's transpired, finally, we have a guy like. like Bobby Kennedy, who's making big shifts and just bringing awareness that in large part kind of was not just available, it was shoved under the rug for many years. And my son's 10 now.

We had gotten a hold of Susan Humphrey's book, Dissolving Illusions, when he was in the womb and made the decision to at least pause and hold out. And then over time, it was like, we're not going to do any vaccinations. And that came, you know, a lot of my family, especially my father's siders, in Western medicine, doctors, anesthesiologists, nurses. And, you know, there's a hard, it's hard arguments to have there. But when you have data and different, you know, different facts to show people, it changes things. But it's very interesting how, you know, right behind me, I've got Aaron Siri coming on. Another small world thing. He's coming in next week. He's been just amazing. And,

you know, behind you is the Vax Unbax book from Bobby Kennedy and Hooker and the Ph. to Brian Hooker. So it's starting to pour in now what, what, you know, has taken, has been hard for people to sift through and find. But I remember a moment when my son was three and we watched Vaxed, which was, you know, a documentary that you did with Del Big Tree and Del Since has become a very, you know, I would say he's a good friend of mine. We've done a lot with him and he's been to our old house in Austin. We go, we go back from getting to have our kids in school together. But like, they're just, it was wild. And the visual, I think grabs people in a way that's kind of hard to understand.

You know, like it's, it's real easy to have an opinion on something like vaccines when you're not around autistic kids or if it hasn't affected you personally. And but when you, you guys did that documentary, it just crushed me in the, in the best way. Like it opened me up in a way where like, this is what people are dealing with. This is what mothers are dealing with. And I've never felt better about the decision we made not to do it in that moment. when we watched faxed and, you know, fast forward 10 years, my son is 10, our daughter's 5, perfect health.

They, you know, we have a functional medicine doctor, family pediatrician, and she was like, we brought our daughter in at 2 for her first visit. She's like, bring her back in a couple years or not. Just call me, you know, if you need anything. You don't need to see me for wellness visits. And I was like, no regrets. Yeah, I was like, she's perfect. And I was like, awesome, all right.

You know, we feed our kids all organic food and get them outside and all the things kids ought to be doing, but it's, it's been a wild road to finally see these things start to become more mainstream. Even Susan Humphreys was just on Joe Rogans for the friend. For 10 years, I was like, dude, this, this is the person you got to have on, right? And many others. But I would love to know, your background. Talk about your life growing up. What got you into medicine and what got you into science? And really what, you know, explain this thing for people who, they haven't heard of you, you know where you come into this picture with mMR and the lancet and all of that and then where you've gone since because you've stayed you know through all the the dragging of the names through the mud

and all the actual misinformation of trying to disqualify you as as somebody who have credit you have remained and you've remained you know in in the light spreading the good truth and spreading the good word and i really appreciate that about you that's my pleasure i notice you've got a cauliflower air i got mine from rugby you've got yours from from fighting yeah I find these are great, but when you put those earbuds in, they can't. They don't work. Yes, exactly. They won't stay in.

They're driving crazy. Yeah. No, okay. Where do we go back to? Why did I get into medicine? I was part of a family, I think, six, seven generations of doctors who graduated at the same medical school in London, St. Mary's Hospital, which is part of the University of London.

And so it was in my blood. It was just, I'd watch my parents. as doctors. They were very, they were old-fashioned physicians. The patient came first above anything else. They listened and the art of medicine is listening and being able to interpret what the patient is telling you and what's in their best interests or not. And so it was something I grew up with. I always wanted to be a doctor. And so I became, I was entirely mainstream, whatever that means, I don't know anymore. But I graduated as a physician in 80, 81. I then went on to get the fellowship of the Royal College of Surgeons, Fellowship of the Royal College of Pathologists.

I trained as a gastrointestinal surgeon, and that was going to be my life. And I got into research because at that time you had to do a period of research before continuing in your career. And I made some discoveries. I was in Canada at the time. And this was back in the late 80s. and it was just a very exciting time and I kind of got hooked on research and I came back to London and I put together a big research team we had there were about 19 of us and we were looking at inflammatory bowel disease Crohn's disease ulsterph colitis and then in I think in May of 1995 I got a call from a mother who said

my child was fine they were developing normally they had speech language interaction with their siblings and then they had their MMR vaccine and it all went. At that time, MMR vaccine was given in isolation in the UK so they could distinguish it from other vaccines. It wasn't the other vaccine. And the story was very consistent and these were very smart, intelligent parents and one is obliged to listen to their story

about what happened to their child because no one knows a child better than their mother. certainly not doctors, certainly not pediatricians. And they said to me certain things. They said, I said I'm a gastroenterologist. I know nothing about autism. When I was at medical school, it was so rare, one in 10,000 kids. We weren't even taught about it.

So how can I possibly help? Well, my child has terrible gastrointestinal problems, and I'm sure they're related to their behavior. When this is bad, this is bad. And not only that, but my child was developing normally and they regressed. And doctors tell me that autism, there's no regression. They're born like that. They've always been that.

You just didn't notice it. Well, give me a break. And there's an epidemic of this particular problem, this regressive autism. And so I put a team together. We investigated it and lo and behold, the parents were right. They were right on everything. The medical profession had said they're born with it. It's genetic.

It starts in the womb. There's no regression. They don't actually. Parents think they were making, you know, saying words like helicopter, but they were actually just making noises. And they don't have gastrointestinal disease. And there's no epidemic. We're just better at making the diagnosis.

I mean, it was extraordinary. That was the teaching from the experts. God save us from experts. We've learned that after COVID. So the parents were right. The kids had an inflammatory bowel disease. What was remarkable about that is when we treated it, as we would treat Crohn's or colitis, diet anti-inflammatories.

Not only did this get better, but this got better. They started using words they hadn't used for five years. It was extraordinary. It was rather like that story of Lorenzo's oil. They suddenly woke up. and there was something real about it. But the mainstream didn't want to know, particularly when it came to the issue of the vaccine.

Did it start after the vaccine? Yes. And so we had an obligation. I had an obligation to take that very, very seriously. My colleagues didn't want to. My colleagues on the team, the pediatrician, and said, look, as pediatricians, we can't be seen to criticize a vaccine.

I said, what does that mean? You can't be seen to criticize. What about the child? What about the story you're hearing? Is this about how you're perceived by your colleagues at the Royal College? What about the patient? And so we had a gentle falling out. And I continued the work and the dean of the medical school took me aside and said,

if you continue this work, it's not going to be good for your career. There's an explicit threat, you know, don't do it. which kind of made me angry, kind of made me more determined, worked twice as hard, and it wasn't good for my career. He was absolutely right. But it was, in my mind, the right thing to do.

I didn't know whether it was right or wrong, but that wasn't my job was to try and answer that question. And so that led to everything falling apart. When the system decides to come after you, It does so in no uncertain terms. And at that time, the council culture was unheard of. What's happened now to Peter McCullough and all these other very eminent doctors at the time didn't happen. So there was me on one side.

And on the other side, there was the Department of Health and the CDC and the pharmaceutical industry and the World Health Organization and UNICEF. and it was the battle and the fight was like putting a heavyweight in with a feather weight. It was just, you know, not even that. I was never going to prevail there. And so, particularly when you own the media, because what happened then is they bought in James Murdoch, son of Rupert Murdoch was put onto the board of GlaxoSmith Klein, Europe's major manufacturer of the MMR vaccine. And he was a non-executive director whose responsibility was to protect the reputation of that company in the media.

In other words, in Murdoch's newspapers and so on. And his job was to come after me, which he did very effectively. And so, and I remember walking, I came back from lecturing in Hong Kong. I walked into Times Square and there was that ticker thing going around Fox. you're like Wakefield guilty MMR, Dr. Guilty of fraud and I got I jet lagged

and then I walked into an interview with Anderson Cooper or one of those characters and it was interesting it was a pretty brutal time the memory is it's in its own self preserving way

it raises so much of the bad things that happened you only remember the good times but And I came to America as in professional and political exile and came to Austin. I heard Austin was a great place. Set up a center here for children with autism and research, clinical care, education. And they came after me there and in the end I was without a job. So I thought, well, you know, what do I do now?

How do I continue to help these kids? Because they haven't got a voice of their own. Their parents aren't scientists. they're not physician. They don't have access to the kind of things that I do. I've got a voice. I can use it. So keep going. What can I do? And over the years, people had come to me from federal agencies because of the position I'd taken. People had come to me from places like, you know, the CDC, the Department of Health in England, pharmaceutical companies and said we've done a terrible thing. And I can't live with it anymore. And here is the evidence and handed it over.

And I thought, you know what, these would make wonderful movies, documentaries or feature film, but they would make, they are great stories. They're the Erin Brockovich of the pharmaceutical industry. You know, they need to be told. And so that's what I did. I got into making movies in 2004. Started screenwriting. Being an academic, I wanted to learn everything about it.

I read everything, watched everything, went on the courses. I was a bit of a nerd about it. But I got to understand what it would take to make these stories. And I've made six films now, and they've improved, they got better and better. Now I've moved into feature films. And it's been a very exciting time. And the great thing about it is that when you're in the clinic, you can help one child at a time. But when you make a movie, then millions of people can watch it.

And when you take complex issues like vaccines, the vaccine sort of, story. When you take that and you make it accessible to the public, when you put it in terms that are entertaining and informative and people want to sit there and sit forward in their seats and learn and understand because it's relevant to them, they care about it. That's the joy of it and a film like Vax can do that. It can take a complex issue, fraud at the CDC. and turn it into something that is available for the world to scrutinize. And that was an interesting story. You tell me when to shut up.

No, this is perfect. I have my favorite podcast. I want to have someone like you. I want to let you have an underhanded softball pitch and let you just hit it as far as you want to go. Just keep taking cracks. Go as deep as you want. I've actually, Dr. Ted Ocicoso was on the podcast, and all I got 90 minutes was, wow. Mm-hmm.

Okay. And he apologized after and I was like, it was beautiful. It was a lecture. It was incredible. Well, if you fall asleep, I know I've gone on too long. All right, guys, quick break to tell you about what I've been up to. This year has been a year of transition for me with a fit for service making huge changes. I've been working to create my own community.

I still don't have a name for it yet. That is in the works. I'm brewing on it. But one of the things that I have come to understand is what this community is about. And so I want to give you a little hint here and let you guys drop in. I'd love to get your feedback. And there's a link at the top of the page here if you guys are interested at all. All right.

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guys locked in. All right, back to the podcast. In 2000, I went to testify before the Oversight Committee on Government Reform Congress. And I then went to a meeting. I was invited to a meeting with the CDC, FDA, NIH to talk about vaccines and autism. And so they were all of them and there were two of us and I, they said, look, Dr. Wakefield, everybody gets MMR, every kid gets MMR, only some get autism. How do you explain that? Well, you know, that's medicine. A lot of people smoke, only some develop lung cancer. We don't know why. Many other co-factors play into this. But I believe it's age of exposure. And one of the variables that's important is age of exposure. Now everybody's familiar with that now with COVID. People know that older people are at greater risk of a serious outcome from COVID. But then it was kind of people didn't really understand that.

And measles is a disease which is worse when you're under one. And so is it possible that it was, in part, age of exposure, the younger you got the MMR vaccine, the greater the risk of autism as an adverse outcome. So they said, okay, we'll look at that. They went away and they conducted a big study and they looked at it and they found it was absolutely true. And they decided to protect not the children but themselves, their reputation and public confidence in the CDC, the policymakers. And so they buried the data, they trashed it, they put in a dumpster, they came in over the weekend when their colleagues wouldn't see them and they went through the documents and they took out those,

that were incriminating and they threw them away. They changed the data and they published a paper that said MMR's fine, it's safe to go back in the water. Wakefield was wrong. And I lived with that for 12, 14 years. I didn't know. I thought, okay, well, there are some gaps in this paper

but, you know, if they did the study, little did I know that it was a complete fraud. And then William Thompson, who you encountered in the movie, came forward as the senior scientists the person who designed the study had collected the data analyzed it written the paper came forward to Brian Hooker and Brian he said I can't live with myself anymore I kept the data I knew it was illegal to destroy it so I've got a copy here it is and that was the basis of Vaxed 14 years later how many children went to

the wall in those 14 years? How many children, how many families' lives were destroyed? Because they decided to protect themselves over and above protecting the children. That was their sworn duty. But they decided, no, we're going to protect vaccines globally. Let me read you one thing. This is from the Federal Register, and this was in the context of polio, vaccine but this really sums up the attitude of public health and what people like myself have been up against for a very very long time without knowing it suspecting it but without knowing it any possible doubts this is polio any possible doubts whether or not well founded about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist any doubts cannot be allowed to exist in view of the the needs

to assure that the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation's public health objectives. In other words, it doesn't matter if the science is real, it doesn't matter how much science there is, doesn't matter how good it is, how it stands up to scrutiny, it doesn't matter. It cannot be allowed to exist because our policy is more important than the children of this country or indeed of the world. That's what we're up against. So it didn't matter what I did. It didn't matter what anyone did.

They were going to lie and cheat and steal and commit fraud in order to negate any concerns about the vaccine. They cannot be allowed to exist. And when you see something like that, that was from the head of the FDA at the time. When you see something like that, you realize just what it is, you've been up against all these. years. There you go into it naively as a young doctor thinking people are going to find this interesting. Wow, this could be an important breakthrough. This could improve the lives of these poor kids. No. No. It wasn't that at all. It's we're going to protect our reputation. And the argument always has been, well, if we stop vaccinating, vaccines have saved thousands,

millions of lives. If we stop vaccinating, if parents are scared, if we say anything that prevents parents or puts parents off getting their children vaccinated, then children will die. And we've had to live with that lie for such a long time. It's been used to beat politicians over their head. It's been used to beat the public over the head, doctors over there. that we cannot allow this to actually exist. And so it's become even more important now to do this work, to get an answer. And as you pointed out, thank heavens,

Bobby Kennedy's at the helm. I couldn't have imagined, even a year ago, after 30 years in this battle, I could not have imagined that we'd be where we are now, that someone like Bobby would be in place, making the decisions he's making. And against, it's a huge uphill battle. I mean, the majority of Congress,

whether you're on the Republican side or on the Democrat side, receive their funding for their campaigns from the pharmaceutical industry in part. So there is a lot of pushback and he's doing a, and in my opinion he's doing an outstanding job. There's more he could do,

but I think he's making a very noble effort. And the important thing is going to be keeping him in place for another four years after this term to finish the job, to do what he needs to do. Because sadly we're a very reactionary species and if the Democrats get back in, they will undo all the good that Bobby's done and more in deference to the pharmaceutical companies

and their perverse view of public health and the truth about vaccines. Yeah, I've thought a lot about that. We actually had Bobby Kennedy here for a fundraiser when he was still running for president, got to do a sweat lodge with him. He's incredible. You know, he really is a guy that walks to walk. It's funny, you know, when he got in

and a lot of people were harping on the fact that he's going after, you know, food dies and fruit loops instead of the vaccine. And Dr. Jack Cruz talked about that. And it's like, you got to take little pieces here, little steps at a time and bringing forth a science that shows things like this. Hey, this was hidden from us. Let's gather data. Let's look at this book that was published by us and see what's in here. What do we find when we look at the graphs?

I think all those things are a way to breadcrumb the public so that there's less. You don't want a revolution. You know, you want to ease this in so that more people come on board and can say, oh, wow, okay. let's change this. But to your point on what you're up against, the amount of money that's been made with basically getting this free pass in when was it the Bidolact or the 88?

When was that? In 1986. 1986, right? And so, like, people always say, like, especially in my generation and older, you know, like, what's the big deal? We got vaccinated. I got vaccinated.

Why don't you want to vaccinate your kids? And it's like, well, I had 10 shots. and my kids are up to what, 72 if they were vaccinated from 0 to 18. And you also have, you know, this entourage effect that I think Bobby's done a great job of talking about too, where, you know, you have maybe MMR stuck out because it was a three in one, right? You've got more adjuvants in one shot. I think Dr. Sherry Tenpenny proposed the fact, you know, looking at CDC website, you know, and seeing the graphs that there was this huge spike.

I threw a 300% increase in autism rates the year that GMO wheat was introduced in the U.S. Right. So we have the surplus of glyphosate going in that's a toxin and a carcinogen that's now a part of the food supply. And it is directly tied to the gut. You know, as you mentioned, I think there's a lot of evidence there, you know, on this second brain, right? It's impact on that. And I think it's wild when you start going down the rabbit hole. But just the fact that that we couldn't even have the.

conversation. You especially couldn't have the conversation in 2020, but we were in the clear in 2020 because we had already learned about vaccines prior to this brand new technology they're going to introduce the save the day. It was like, what are you talking about? There's no way there's there's any safety data on this stuff. You know, and that's something I love about Aaron Siri is like, he's like, I don't need to get into conspiracy or, you know, potentials. They could be real. I can tell you how, you know, what was the safety data on HEPB, right? Five days on 146 kids and you're like what the fuck five days 146 kids like it's mind blowing to think about that and to call something like that safe but you know creating this little side shuffle place where

you know they have their own court and how many people actually get paid from that is you know far less than should be right you have to prove to jump through several hoops to be able to prove that there was an actual injury from the vaccine and still with the, you know, under ability to report how many people have actually been hurt. They're talking about billions have been paid out. That's wild when you start crunching numbers and you actually think about all the impact this has had on us. Even people still today, and I don't want to rant too long either, but, you know, a lot of people will argue like, oh, you know, this and that on Bobby. And we'll see, they'll say, like, we'll see what the impact is of guys like Bobby and Andy Wakefield, you know, having on the

public when all of a sudden these diseases ramp back up. And it's like, you believe in herd immunity? Like, we can see it right now. Look at the Amish. There's a whole population that doesn't vaccinate, right? And they have their own issues. Like, there's not a perfect society, but the point being is that we already would have seen these things come back. And anytime, you know, I was listening to a podcast you did when Dell recently. And it was funny because Chelsea Clinton brought you up when there was a measles outbreak in Mississippi or someplace, you know, in Missouri that you were the reason that the measles outbreak had taken place. And it's just, it's absolute nonsense.

You know, there's a lot of people arguing back and forth when measles kind of crept up in Texas. And it's like, you go through any of these things, chickenpox, measles, you're better after the fact. You're better after you've been stung by a bee, right? You have a considerable drop in different forms of cancer and neurodegenerative diseases and things of that nature when you go through that. And I don't think many of these things are fatal in the modern world, certainly in a third world country and things like that where you don't have access to antibiotics and even vitamin IVs and things like that. You know, you're not going to rebound as well as we can here in the states or in modern countries. but I don't it's just mind-blowing to me the arguments that keep being made is just like regurgitating whatever the masses have been ingrained with whatever they've been indoctrinated into believing then

they'll just regurgitate that online you know they'll spit back out what their general practitioner told them and um it it definitely sits different when you've been around you know the varying degrees of autism there is a spectrum you know but i've been around people that that you know were one of my best friends growing up, his younger brother had autism. And the dad intelligently knew we were all jocks. We were the sports guys. So he's like, hey, you know, I'm going to have a sleep over here. I'm going to bring over all of his friends that are autistic.

And I want you to see and be around this. So you know, if you see somebody like this, that's not somebody to pick on. That's somebody to support, right? It was really, really intelligent. But, who, man, like it hit hard. seeing that just the the the reaction the inability to be touched the inability to communicate um you know the the just the reaction to noise and things like that where hands on the ears la la la la la walking around in circles like it's it's just a whole different thing and to

understand that that is something that our modern world is causing and we do know the reason why these things are happening and it keeps getting shoved under the rug is heartbreaking. It's terrifying, isn't it? All right, guys, quick break to tell you about one of our longest running show of sponsors, Lucy.com. Let's level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to lucy.com slash KKP and use promo code KKP to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers free shipping and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind.

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And there you go. Lucy.com slash KK.P for 20% off. The important you make about the evolution, of human disease is so important. There was a meeting at the NIH when they were talking about universal measles vaccination back in 64. And they invited a guy over from the UK who was the world's leading infectious disease doctor at the time. And he said, don't do it. He said, don't do it. because the death rate from measles is what one in a hundred thousand even less probably in Scandinavia one in a million i dare say it's the same in the u.s and you should be asking the question

what is different about that one child who dies rather than and doing something about that rather than anticipating giving a vaccine to every child effectively in the world and you're going to alter the natural history of measles if you do this and even the guy who discovered measles, Enders from Harvard, said, you know, if you change the natural history of measles virus, you've no idea what the outcome is going to be. If you alter the age of exposure or the age of susceptibility because your vaccine does not work for life like natural measles does, then you're going to change the whole dynamic. And as an example of this, if you look at the mortality from measles over the last 200 years up until 1920 it was a killer of children during

epidemics and then the case fatality rate fell by 99.96% by the time the vaccine was introduced. It was extraordinary, that sort of quadratic decay and that was nothing whatsoever to do with the vaccine. It couldn't have been. It wasn't around. What would have happened to that curve if we'd done nothing? If we hadn't vaccinated, it would have decayed to approach zero. Measles was becoming a milder and milder and milder disease. Just going to the point that you made, in Western civilizations, it's not a killer, it's a trivial disease. And they decided they were going to do it.

And they decided the CDC, the head of the CDC, got up and said, it's not about death or disability. It's about the fact that we can do it, and therefore we should. I mean, that's what now it's all about, oh, it's a killer. It's a killer. Measles is a killer. No. At the time, it was bored in. It was, they advocated for it and prevailed on the basis that we should do this because we can.

It really should have been, we think we can do this because we think we can. They didn't really have any information at the time about it. And of course, they've changed the natural history of measles completely. They promised that it's. going to be one shot for life, just like natural measles, wrong. It is not. It's multiple shots and still your immunity is not preserved. That it wasn't going to cause death or disability. It wasn't going to be spread from the vaccinated to the unvaccinated. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. On every count, they were wrong. And so it just goes to show how little we know

or understand about these organisms or how little we are prepared to care. If we have a policy, that we want to emulate the apparent success of polio vaccine. We're going to do that with measles. We're going to do that with mumps. We're going to do that with everything. We're going to eradicate human disease. But that disease exists and we exist in the same environment for a reason. You know, there is a symbiosis.

There is something. There is an advantage to both. The advantage to measles of not killing people was that it could then be spread more effectively from person to person. If you kill your host like Ebola, then it's not a very successful parasite because it's killing its host and it's not therefore allowing the propagation of the disease. But we didn't. We thought we knew better. We thought we could hold dominion over these infections and eradicate them and we were completely wrong. And we seem to keep getting it wrong. And COVID is the late

latest example. And what's interesting is when I got involved in this all those years ago, there were a handful of people worldwide who were prepared to even talk about this subject. Now it's half the adult population of the world because of COVID. So the two things that I've experienced that have made the biggest difference, the greatest impact on this whole issue have been one film, the ability to tell stories and get them out there in a way that they're accessible and understandable to people, and COVID is the other. COVID was the biggest mistake they ever made in many, many ways, but it turned so many people against public health, against the experts, against the Tony Fouches of this world, against the Peter Dazzax. The experts who,

who told us one thing, and something completely different turned out to be the truth. And so the important thing is that when they blame you and I for having this conversation, they get angry with me and Chelsea Clinton goes off on a tantrum. They've only got themselves to blame. They have created this situation. And in doing so, they've damaged millions of children. a lot of lives have been destroyed so it's it's very sad but at least things are changing now with Bobby Kennedy there and we need to you know get behind them and give them all the support

that we can and the truth is coming out I just I was invited to be on a paper with Peter McCullough the other day I haven't published a scientific paper for a very long time and it said in the conclusion of this study, and it's the biggest study, it's 308 reference, 136 papers, the most comprehensive piece of scholarship about the causes of autism, and it says combination and early-timed routine childhood vaccination constitutes the most significant, modifiable risk factor for autism spectrum disorder. In other words, it's preventable. Vaccines are the key culprit that can be, you know, modified to avoid the risk of autism. And that's it.

That's where we are right now. So we've come a long way. It's been an interesting journey. And we've got to keep pushing. We've got a lot of work to do. There are more film must be made. The next film I want to make, I'll tell you an interesting story. And that is, I, um, years ago,

I went to give a talk at a conference. And that evening, after the conference, I was invited by a mother to dinner, just the two of us. And she had a severely affected child, one child, and was estranged from her husband and said to me, asked me if I would father a child. And you may think, what a very odd thing to ask Dr. Wakefield. what an even stranger thing to tell me now on this show. I didn't expect this part of the conversation. No, but she wasn't interested in sex with me.

What she wanted. And this goes to what a mother is prepared to do for her child. What she wanted was a healthy sibling who remained unvaccinated, who could look after her son, her disabled, her tragically disabled son, when she became infirm or died because there was no one else. There was nothing else.

The system wasn't set up to cope with this boy that he was going to be left alone in a world where he wasn't understood, he wasn't loved and nobody cared. And he would die on the street. And the extent of a mother's love and where she is prepared to go to risk rejection or humiliation or whatever. She was so sincere in her request.

I thought I declined because I felt that I needed to care for my children. But I was inspired to write a film about it, a movie about it, and that's my next project. Because what I'm really concerned about now is the ship has sailed that Bobby and millions of other people are now going to make sure that we get to the truth about vaccines. The credibility of the public health authorities has never been so low. Nobody trusts them anymore. Nobody trusts the pharmaceutical companies. So the truth will evolve. I'm confident that will happen. We have to keep pushing, but it will evolve.

What about the children left behind on the battlefield in man's vain efforts to eradicate infectious disease? What about those who have been injured? They've got to be cared for. They've got to be looked after. And as you say, the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act and the compensation system is grossly inadequate. The parents have to prove the case. That shouldn't be. It should be up to the drug companies.

It should be up to the government to prove that what they're doing, what they're mandating, is safe. But no, it's up to the parents to prove their case. Completely wrong. It's topsy-turvy. It's head over. It really makes no sense. But my job, as long as there's breath in my body, is to tell that story, to tell that movie, to make that movie about this subject and bring people's attention just to the sheer enormity of this issue and the tragedy that has already been. created. You guys know I've tried just about everything when it comes to human optimization,

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and get 10% off your first order of Nero. That's tonum.com slash KKP and using code KKP for 10% off your first order. If you've got any listeners out there who want to get involved in making a movie, a big, you know, blockbuster, then please, you know, I'd love to hear from them. Absolutely. Well, where can, where can, I want to be able to promote everything you've got going on

and send people the website. I usually throw that in at the end, but we can give us a website where people can contact you now and we'll keep going. The best place to go is to, is the, the website is wakefieldmediagroup.com. And the email is info at wakefieldmediagroup.com. Cool. And we'll get back to you. I hope we get some support here for you.

Wonderful. Yeah. The internet has been an interesting one. too. I thought that that was, I'm always impressed by the internet. There's, there's cat videos and the most random, dumb shit you'll ever see. And then there's something like beautiful works of art. You know, like when they had the, the hundred different, you know, it's one screen, then it's two, then it's four, then it's eight, then it's 16. And they keep pulling back. And it's, you know, in all these small towns all across the U.S. and then all across the world, then in

different languages. And it's them telling us that Amazon's working safely to be able to get you the things that you need, right? And it's just the whole COVID nonsense. Brought to you by Pfizer. Brought to you by Pfizer. Brought to you by Pfizer. And now you see it's literally a script. It's not just in big cities.

It's a script all the way across every station. Red, blue, in between, MSNBC, Fox, brought to you by the same sponsors, Big Pharma, and they have the same script that they're reading, telling their listeners, everything's going to be fine. Just get the jab. And seeing that, seeing these, you know,

two-minute clips on Instagram, or it wasn't on Instagram at the time, but Twitter and an X now was just perfect before they'd get flagged and taken down. It was like, yeah, I mean, you can't unsee that. Another thing that really, you know, struck a nerve in me was watching, you know, Mickey's films, the Plandemic series and seeing in his longer film, Plannedemic Indoctrination, you know, the Gates Foundation going overseas to Africa and India and just mass vaccinating the poorest people without parental consent without any without even the parents knowing napole in these groups some of these kids were tribal they didn't have school to go to or things like that or if they did

they would just you know here's what we're going to do and um you know they're working on the latest polio vaccine and you see kids just falling over in their chairs like it that's what's paralyzing them and and without that film i wouldn't have understood it to the degree you could say like, hey, this group is actually doing this abroad. They've been kicked out of several countries for it. They've been sued by countries for it. But to capture that on tape is a whole different sense of feeling. It's a whole different sense of emotion and empathy that takes place. Like you can relate in a way that words just don't cover. And I think that it's hard to watch, but it's also something that's worth watching because of the fact that it can have that effect on you,

just as Vax did. So I'm excited, you know, that not only are you continuing to do what you're doing and Dell's doing great work with ICANN, but also the fact that the Internet's alive and well, and there's enough people that are speaking on these things, and they're finally able to talk about it. It's freaking ridiculous. I've seen so many videos about 9-11 this year on Instagram, because finally, you know, Zuckerberg said he's not going to, you know, police anybody and send him.

and who knows how true that is, but at least for the time being, thanks to, you know, X being a little bit more free, we're starting to see competition. Okay, more people are going here because they're allowed to say what they want, and there's a certain degree of freedom of speech, and then that means we've got to let go of the reins a little bit and allow more freedom of speech here. And that was probably one of the most concerning things to me

was seeing so many people get flagged. I mean, you couldn't tag my wife and I on Instagram, you know, it was a known, you know, known misinformation site and or link was us and so many others. And a lot of friends, you know, Dr. Kirk Parsley, he took a photo of information on the CDC's website and they canned them on X for that. And he's like, this is directly from their website. I didn't write anything. I didn't put a caption.

I took a photo from their website that went against their own narrative. And he got canned. He got account deleted. So, you know, I love the Peter McCollah's, who's, you know, sat in this room. Dr. Brian Ardis has been awesome. And Robert Malone was on the podcast. So many great people that have come from a different angle to speak on these things. One thing that's discerting to me is that it does look with, you know, Agenda 2030 and Agenda 2050 and the Pyrrhic Accord and all the things that they're trying to change and get these sweeping societal changes to happen in the next five years.

years. You know, like that 2020 in many ways, I think, was a trial run. And I do think, you listen to Gates talk about disease X and, you know, the next one, they'll pay attention and the next one they'll really listen to us and these kind of things. And it's tough having a couple of young ones and knowing that there's, there's likely more in store. But people like yourself, they're spreading the truth, Dell, there's so many great people that have stood and remained heroes in my mind, you know, that have gone against the onslaught of the entire system for lack of a better term, you know, lack of a better word. I think that the tragedy of MRNA, oh, good Lord, you know, it's done so much harm

and will continue to do so much harm. The anxiety is that the old-fashioned vaccines, the live viral vaccines, for example, measles, mumps, rebella, chickenpox and others, they're seeking now, because they're failing. Resistance is building up to them and measles is emerging in highly vaccinated populations. It's not working. They'll blame you and me. They'll blame everybody else. They'll blame everyone, but the fact that the vaccine isn't working. And this is rather like antibiotic-resistant bacteria. They're imperfect. The antibiotic's imperfect, and that allows 5% of the bacteria to survive. And they become the dominant species because they are resistant.

and suddenly you've got to produce another antibiotic that is equally imperfect but kills off 95% of those, and so you breathe another bug, which is even worse. And that's what has happened. And they call it public health people after less than 100 years of using antibiotics, that the miracle has turned into what they call the post-antibiotic apocalypse. That's what they describe it as, and vaccines are going the same way. And so these old-fashioned vaccines have generated because of their use, not in spite of their use, they've generated resistant strains.

And so they will say, okay, now we're going to go to MRNA vaccines for measles, mumps, rebella, etc. That fills me with horror, that idea that could even be anticipated after what we've seen with COVID. now the acknowledged fact that it's killed children the vaccines killed children it's killed many many adults um and it's got to be stopped that fortunately bobby's the right person to to make that happen yeah it is it is uh terrifying to hear them continue to talk MRI for certain and that obviously there's a big push there the for people that can't wrap their head around it you have to consider

the amount of money that they've made you know even just through covid i think COVID, I think there's like 40 new billionaires were made in the world in a period of two years. You know, like there's, it's high stakes at the cost of the general population, the public. And, you know, depending how deep you go down the rabbit hole, there's a lot of people with a lot of money that, that think we're overpopulated and don't want this many people on the earth. And they've sought out through various ways from, you know, planned parenthood beginning and things of that nature. being only in poor, poor neighborhoods and things like that. It's a, it's a lot to take on, you know. I think there's a, there's, it's a, it's a bigger deal than most people suspect.

But I, to your point, there's, there's a good amount of people that are awakening to that. And, you know, I think the, the whole vaccine hesitancy thing, that's like, oh, it'll cause vaccine hesitancy if we say anything. If we tell the truth, vaccine hesitancy, it's like, if your head's on straight, if you've been paying attention, and you're damn sure better have vaccine residency, right? Yeah. I remember, people had asked me at conferences over the years, do you think this is deliberate?

Do you think they're trying to reduce the population? Do you think they're using vaccines to do that? And I thought, you know, at the time I thought, what a clumsy approach to the problem that would be. And then I made a film with Bobby Kennedy, and it was called Infertility, a diabolical agenda. and it was about the use of a hybrid vaccine in third world countries. They took the tetanus vaccine and they spliced into it human corionic gonadotrophin,

which is a hormone essential for the maintenance of pregnancy. And so what happened is when that's injected, you produce antibodies against tetanus and you produce antibodies against your own HCG. You cannot get pregnant or you cannot sustain a pregnancy. It was done deliberately. It was done funded in large part by the Gates Foundation. And it was done with the deliberate aim of reducing the population in developing countries where women were experimented on, on the basis, on the, with the argument that we're going to give you this vaccine to protect against neonation.

tetanus when in fact the reason for giving it to them was to make them infertile no informed consent absolutely disgraceful and when I made that film I thought you know all bets are on how naive I've been to think that they wouldn't do that and there they were and they published on it they had the audacity to actually put it in writing to publish what they were doing they so I think all bets are on now as far as I'm concerned. Well, where do you see? You have a son, Sam. Do you have any

other kids? I have four. You're four. Four children. I have three boys, one girl. We started off, we didn't have any data with the first two, so I was just beginning this work. And they had their initial shots, and then we stopped

completely. And then my latter two children, we've got a controlled experiment in our family. The last two didn't get anything. And they're healthy as a butcher's dog. You know, they're good. So I've been very lucky. We have three of super close family friends that are listening to this podcast,

and their oldest is 12. She just had her first moon, so she's now a young lady. And unfortunately, because she was the oldest, she had more vaccines. And that's kind of what switched them on to like, hey, there's a problem there. Thankfully, non-autistic, but, you know, breaks out with eczema, psoriasis, lots of stuff, which is completely related to the gut for her. If she eats seed oils or anything bad, people talk about seed oils and that whole argument,

but if she's eating inorganic, fast food, stuff you'd have at a birthday party, you know, it really affects her. And, you know, they reduced or didn't do it all with their last two kids, but it's wild to see that too, you know, like just the difference is there. I think that we'll, you know, on the opposite side,

I'd love to pick your brain if, you know, you've been paying attention this longer than I have, what are some of the things that you've found to be effective at helping people? Maybe not, you know, fully autistic to come back, because obviously that's still a work in progress, but for, you know, people that have been affected negatively, in large part in the GI, you know, what are some of the ways in which that people can start to retrace their steps and rebuild and repair themselves? Right. I come to this as a gastroenterologist, and I've been out of clinical medicine for a while now,

So this, you know, this goes back to my historical experience. And interestingly, the insights, again, came from parents. The first insight was, so we scoped them, we biops and we looked under the microscope. There was inflammation. Our immediate responses to give an anti-inflammatory, which we did, a mild anti-inflammatory that we used for Crohn's. And it was very effective. Suddenly the child started sleeping at night and started to use words.

That was exciting, but then the parents said we've heard about a diet, a gluten-casein-free diet, so it excludes wheat-based products, it excludes dairy products. And there was a dramatic effect. And the argument at the time was this is either an allergy or these compounds, gluten and casein are metabolized into morphine-like compounds in the gut. usually they're broken down further and aren't a problem but if they get through the gut as intact morphine-like peptides can they injure the developing brain it's a very interesting idea had our work not been sabotaged at an early stage we'd have an answer for you now on whether that

was true at least in part or whole and then it was the sort of things that people then started focusing on the gut the gut was the most important thing so they would try antibiotics that would get rid of a dysbiosis in the gut, they would give probiotics, good bacteria. At the time that was unheard of you, giving someone probiotics from a healthy sibling. You know, what are you doing? But it's now become a thing. You know, you're going to put that up my butt. No, you're not. You know, but that, it was, it's turned out to be valid and highly effective in some people. So then other anti-inflammatories, hyperbaric oxygen then came along as something that was very fashionable that worked for many children, high pressure oxygen therapy on a regular basis.

And those are the things that when I was working on it really seemed to have a benefit. There are other things now that are coming along. Other people have worked on that are looking very promising. I haven't followed the science on those, so I shouldn't discuss them. I don't want to mislead people into their merits or otherwise. But those are the things that we found. And what we found is that children who responded really responded well.

That if you gave a child, you put them on a diet, for example, and they immediately started sleeping at night. Those were the responders, and that was about 75% of the children, that every incremental improvement was associated, you put a nude therapy in, had a new therapy in, and they would get better and better and better. And so there was, and here was a fascinating thing, is the medical profession, the experts that said,

there's no recovery. Once you've got it, you're stuck with it, put them in a home, to get about to move on. They were completely wrong. completely wrong and again the mothers proved them wrong and the science proved them wrong and then there were the 25% of children who it didn't matter what you did it didn't matter what therapy you tried it didn't seem to make any difference and then marijuana was used in many of those children and that

was highly effective for some particularly those children who in my experience who develop seizure activity Seizures are very, very common in autism and more common as children get older and around the teenage years. Often, grandma epilepsy kicks in. It's another tragedy piled on top of what's already a tragedy. But those children did seem to do, many of them did it very well with cannabinoids. So the good thing is the more we understand, the better, the more precise and the better the treatments. are. So it's a rapidly advancing field, which is wonderful. And I really should pay more attention,

but filmmaking takes up a lot of time. No, you've paid the most attention to get people switched on. So it's exciting. Yeah, I think cannabis to me was always something, you know, like in college, like I would get high five days a week, you know, and it was just that. You know, I want to get high. I don't want to think about school. I just want to play video games and crash. I had all my one semester in college where all my classes were two days a week, just Tuesdays and Thursdays. So those are the days I didn't have much, and the rest of the days I was just partying and playing video games. And then, you know, I got, that slowed down as I got back into football.

When I got into fighting, I just, it would help me fall asleep at night. I'd be so nervous, you know, with a fight camp coming up, like, oh, shit, I just signed the contract. This guy's good at X, Y, and Z, and I really need to focus, and I'm just overthinking it. And did I train hard enough today? what happened in sparring and it would just quiet my mind and help me sleep. But CBD was something that actually helped me come off of high dose anti-inflammatories. I was taking two to three,

200 milligram ibuprofen every time I'd train twice, two or three times a day, right, for eight weeks. So no telling how, you know, disruptive that was to the gut for me. And I didn't know anything about it at the time. But fighting was what kind of got me into health and wellness optimization and longevity. So CBD was great at allowing me to come off of anti-inflammatories and still, you know, relatively be pain-free. But I think the endoconabinoid system and, you know, how terpenes affect the body is going to be a really cool new, new part of a new wave that we see. And the method of administration, you know, is just going to be pick your, pick your adventure, right? You've got droppers. You've got all sorts of different ways that people,

can utilize those substances. And I think the, if it was the Farm Act, the Farm Bill Act, something like that allowed for up to 0.3% THC in full spectrum CBD to be sold 50 stateswide. You know, so for a guy like me, it was incredibly sensitive to it now. I mean, in college, I'd wake up my roommate

to light a four-foot bong. That would kill me today. I'd lose my mind if I try to do something like that. But the full spectrum CBD is a very tiny amount of THC and lots of other cannabinoids. and that works wonders as a real medicine. My son cracked his head open. You had a hairline fracture when he was three and started vomiting.

Thankfully, he was with my sister at the time. Thankfully, she had some experience of medicine and knew like, oh, he has a serious head injury. They brought him to Stanford Hospital to the ICU. We were in Mexico. We flew back the next day. But we found out I was with Dr. Dan Engel, who just wrote the concussion repair manual. And he was talking about hyperbaric oxygen and all these things. And he's like, full spectrum CBD with THC is phenomenal.

And so we were giving him that. And I mean, it seemed like he recovered in two days. You know, he thankfully had no brainbleeds or anything like that, but it was wild to see how fast he read. And then it was like, hey, we can't watch TV. We can't run and play. We got to make sure there's no second injury here. And, but I was so impressed with how that worked. I think there was a guy, not a guy, but they did a retroactive study in the NFL on THC.

Did you hear about that? No, I didn't. Really cool. looked at players after the fact who had retired because those are the only people that would be honest in their cannabis use. And a certain amount of players, certain percentage of players in the NFL would smoke weed every day, including on game day. So they looked at the everyday users of cannabis and they compared them to the non-users, people who never did it. They didn't look at anybody in between. But what they found was the people who use cannabis every day, specifically

with THC, were back on the field five times faster than the other group who didn't use it. So like, after concussions, they would see, like, how fast did this guy recover and get cleared to go play again. And the cannabis group, you know, really had the neuroprotectiveness of the THC made a huge difference in their ability to take the hits and then get back on the field. And so I think we're going to discover a lot through plant medicines that can really help people and be administered in a way where it's the right dose. You know, stuff's now so damn strong. But he can find a little goes a long way, you know.

And I think if we, like anything else, you know, 80 levels drop, testosterone drops at a certain age. All these things start to drop our own natural production of cannabinoids drop at a certain age. But we can bring those back up. I think there's a lot of benefit to it. And I think it's really impressive to me to know that that helps with kids with autism too. Yeah.

I wish I'd known that when I was playing rugby. I got concussed so many times. Wow. Yeah, that would have been. Anyway, we can't. for what's gone. Yep, that's true. Well, this has been phenomenal having you on.

Say your website again. Are you on social media at all? Yes, I am. Okay. But if you go to, I think it's at Wakefield Media Group, and the website is wakefieldmediagroup.com, and to get in touch with us, info at wakefieldmediagroup.com. Thank you so much.

This has been a dream come true. I appreciate you. You have your amazing. It's been awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. A pleasure.