Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #442 Navigating Life's Cycles: From Childhood Development to Practical Esoterics w/ Edmund Knighton

Episode Date: January 25, 2026

In this episode, Kyle welcomes back Edmond Knighton, a well-versed expert in various spiritual and esoteric topics. They delve into areas such as Christ consciousness, the law of one, Rudolf Steiner's teachings, childhood development, and the significance of seven-year cycles in adulthood. Edmond highlights the importance of the 42-49 age cycle in one's spiritual focus and astrologically. The discussion also touches on Edmond's new program, 'Being Human,' co-launched with Jared Picard, featuring guest speakers like Gabby Reese and more. The transcript also explores the practical and philosophical aspects of sustaining one's spiritual path, including contemplations on hope, forgiveness, and the power of sitting in discomfort. Edmond underscores the significant influence of Rudolf Steiner, especially his stance on childhood development and the timing of teaching esoteric concepts. The conversation deepens into the understanding of the 'phantom body,' its role in spiritual evolution, and how Christ's presence embodied this concept. Practical wisdom for everyday life and the importance of reverence, connection with nature, and respecting all life forms are emphasized. The discussion closes with insights into practical exercises for personal growth and development, part of the 'Being Human' program, designed to promote a deeper spiritual understanding and self-improvement. Edmond's comprehensive approach to spirituality, blending Eastern and Western philosophies, aims to facilitate personal growth and community harmony.   Edmund Knighton is a PhD psychologist who works with clients ready for meaningful change. He is trained in Hakomi mindfulness-based therapy, family systems, neuropsychology, and somatic approaches, and works holistically with body, emotions, thoughts, and intuition. Edmund integrates breathwork, dreamwork, and experiential practices to support deep transformation across all ages.   From Kyle: The Community is coming! Click here to learn more   Connect with Edmund here: Being Human:  tinyurl.com/beinghuman2026   Our Sponsors: Let’s level up your nicotine routine with Lucy. Go to Lucy.co/KKP and use promo code (KKP) to get 20% off your first order. Lucy offers FREE SHIPPING and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind. Go to tonum.com/KKP, use the code KKP, and get 10% off your first order of Nouro.   Connect with Kyle: I'm back on Instagram, come say hey @kylekingsbu Twitter: @kingsbu Our Farm Initiative: @gardenersofeden.earth Odysee: odysee.com/@KyleKingsburypod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Kyle-Kingsbury Kyle's Website: www.kingsbu.com - Gardeners of Eden site If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe & leave a 5-star review with your thoughts!  

Welcome to the podcast. We have the return of Edmund Knighton. Edmund is just a wizard. We talk Christ Consciousness. We talk the law of one, the raw contact. We talk Rudolph Steiner. We talk childhood development, what that means, these seven-year cycles for us as adults, because they continue on.

I'm in my 42 to 49 cycle and what that means astrologically, but just as a time stamp of where my focus ought to be in my soul's progression. So many good things in this podcast. I absolutely love Edmund. He is a wealth of knowledge. This is the second time he's been on this podcast, but I cannot exhaust myself in conversation with him. I think we will just keep going and going and going. Must like, you know, Sean O'Lear or Charles Eisenstein or Paul Check.

He's just a great, great guy and he's chalked full of useful information and just a beautiful gnosis and understanding of consciousness and why we're here. Share this far and wide with friends. And also check the show notes out. Edmund is launching a program that is going to be absolutely incredible. I believe the title is Being Human. It's with Jared Picard. and again, all that information will be in the show notes. I'm going to be a guest speaker for that

alongside Gabby Reese and a number of other really awesome people who I love and look up to. And of course, Edmund will be the meat and potatoes of those teachings, which anybody who signs up for that is going to learn a lot. So if you enjoy this podcast, check the show notes. It's not super expensive. It's all digital and just worth every penny

and minute of your time. All right, thanks for listening and share this far and wide. Right, like many times, Edmund Knighton, you have returned. I'm so grateful, many times. There's just too much good shit being said before the podcast starts. So we're going to let it rip. We're talking Vaklov-Haw-Hav-Hav-L. Is it Veslaw or Vakalv-Hav-Hav-L? Yeah. So I was just asking you because I sat down and I saw you had the power of the powerless and asking you do you have, I'm just excited to be sitting. I notice I'm fucking

revving, man. Let's go, brother. This is great. I asked you if he had his poem on hope there because his feeling of hope is a very deep conception of hope. And the cool thing is we're in a world where you can read something like that from him, and then you can read like T.S. Eliot. And he says something like, I said to my soul, be still and wait without hope, for hope might be hope for the wrong thing. And it's this ability to sit in hopelessness, to sit in helplessness, to sit in powerlessness. And the cool thing about that is there is an incredible power in being able to sit with powerlessness, not as a victim, but simply as a witness. And It's, Steiner talks about the next iteration of human beings is really being led by the Slavic peoples,

because the Slavic peoples ever since the Mongolian invasion of the 13th century and the whole Bolshevik situation have been in like what's called the one down position. They've been in a position of suffering. And his picture, Steiner's picture, is that there's an archangel that overlights every, every nation or every group of peoples. And this particular archangel recognizes that this group of beings has heart forces that are strong enough to move into a place of suffering consciously and transmute that into loving and into forgiveness, into the power of forgiveness.

And because of that, that's where humanity as a whole has an opportunity to move toward through acceptance of what is, through the forgiveness of it. And then through that forgiveness comes a kind of compassion. And understanding comes after that. And then this kind of synthesis where the human being just becomes more available to serve. It's like the more you give, the more you have to give. And it's the nature of the infinite creator. That's badass.

I like that right? When you talked about the, you know, sitting in the hopelessness is making me think of, you know, kind of Eckhart Tolley's gradient of acceptance. You know, you have the flat tire on the side of the road. It's raining. It's not your most favorite thing. But it is what it is. You've got to fucking change it, right?

Yeah. You can accept it. Then you can move from that into you can enjoy the activity and then you move from that to be enthusiastic, right, to be in God. Yes. Probably not going to be enthusiastic. We've got a tire change in the rain, but there's other than that gradient always exists.

Resistance, acceptance, enjoyment, enthusiasm. Yeah. And it's important to be able to sit with the resistance first and enjoy it. That's the tricky part of, you know, particularly in American culture is like, how do we get to happy? How do we get back to comfortable? I'm uncomfortable that I'm going to go out in the rain and get dirty and have to be strenuous.

So how can I be comfortable in the discomfort, actually? How can I be comfortable in the resistance, even in the hatred? You know, like I made that joke earlier about hating my buddy because I was like doing this download to you while I was chucking upstairs this morning. And then he comes in to that. And there's this part of me, it's like, you know,

I could block that call. But that's a human encounter. of somebody who just earlier, I was typing in, listen to my soul. And right when I typed in, listen to my soul, he, he FaceTime me. That was earlier. So I was like loving him then. And now I'm like right in the middle of doing a download to you. But the bottom line is I'm recording something to you.

This guy wants a live interaction face to face with me. And he's a friend. And that is the priority. That's always the priorityist. And so, you know, I got there. And he's like, oh, my piece is not. even near as important is whatever you were downloading to call. I said, well, it is because this is a live interaction and this other interaction is recorded. Knowing what is the priority,

the priority is if we can be face to face, good. If we can be closer face to face and really drop it into whatever's really happening with both of us, yay. And everything else is downstream of that. I mean, I love that. It's been said thousands of times by Rogan and others. the what is awesome about a podcast where you're both in it or whoever however many people are in it is it's really one of the only times where and I'm sure you do this more because of your level of awareness but as far as the general population is concerned very few people say phones on do not disturb or on airplane mode and I'm fully committed to this conversation we're about to have we're in our own room the kids know not to come in right anything else the kids are going to

barge in anything else I'm going to be my phone's not on do not disturb and I'm I got to take this or any of that stuff. So it's kind of a cool sacred space that has been created through technology, through Aramon, you know, we have this ability to really drop in. Yes. That's one of the most soul-feeding things that I get to participate in. When I think of like, what does the podcast do for me? Yeah.

It's this right now that is by far the most filling. And I just really enjoy that about it. You know, that something is a side effect of wanting to do this, wanting to learn and grow and share cool shit with the world. And then it's like this. other piece was actually the true gold. Yeah. And this, the podcast is great. Like you said, it's a redemption of Aramon.

It's a step in the right direction toward telepathic contact, which could also take place when we're sitting person to person. But the cool thing about telepathy is it can take place anywhere in the cosmos. Like, you can go off planet then. Then you have no limitation. And that's Steiner's whole reason for being was to offer that, like, everything you think about is being thought by the cosmos. you're you're that's there's no limitation on thinking i love that well i want to we we had a such a great

pa i'll link to it in the show notes the first round but um you know we spent a lot of time on the law of one which was great and we talk steiner of course but there's just you know we could do a hundred podcasts on steiner and the law of one and still be at the tip of the iceberg yeah even though i think you know you uniquely have a really deep nosis when it comes to both these things and and to Christ, not just, you know, their take on Christ, but like your, your amalgamation and understanding and noses of Christ, which is really cool and fascinating for me. I told you, I dove into the second coming of Christ from Yogananda, which I love, because I was like, I can't have a Christian tell me about Christ. Give me, you know, I don't want any dogma. I don't want any fundamentalism.

Like, give me like a mystic from the East. And I was like, oh, he wrote this? Let's fucking go. This is great. And so I felt like that's, that's been really cool. And healing and repairing. a lot of the things that I disagreed with growing up and has been fascinating. But it's also something like, you know, most people nowadays in the West are either atheist or Christian, right? They're either, you know, scientism or they're loosely, they would call themselves Christians. Exoterically Christian, yeah, in a religious sense, not in a spiritual sense. Creesters is what people call them back in the day because they only celebrate on Christmas and Easter.

Right, right. Which I thought was hilarious. Like cultural Jews only go. to synagogue on the high holidays. Uh-huh. Yeah. And so, you know, thinking about that, but I've had, I've had a drawing towards that since understanding of Steiner's like point, like this was the middle way, right?

And that, you know, these forces of Aramon and Lucifer are there. And boy, oh, boy, you know, being in Austin for the last five years, like you could see just the luciferic energy just ramp up in a fucking way that I had no, you know, and I'm participating in it too, right? I'm not going to say that I wasn't. I was pull on in the damn thing until I was like, whoa, dude, there's no, we have no lanes anymore. All bets are off. No guardrails.

No guardrails. Jamie Will had a great, great point on that because, you know, he was talking about, you know, loosely conservatives thought things this way and boundaries were good and traditions and roots and, you know, and then loosely progresses. We're like, hey, let's do away. Why would I do the same thing just because somebody did it 10 years or 10 generations ago? Let's make our own rules. Let's make our own history. You know, I've vived with both of those at different times, but one of the ways he's worded it because, you know, he's a mountaineer. He's like, you know, if you go to a mountain and you're skiing, they have bunny slopes and they've got black diamonds.

They've got triple black diamonds. And then they've got an area that you don't go in. Right. Because it's- And then there's aerial, which you go straight down. It's untouched. You don't know what's there, right? Yeah, there's fresh powder there, but who the fuck knows what's going to happen, right? That's off limits for a reason.

You know what I'm saying? Intelligent people have mapped out that part of the mountain and said, Don't fuck with it, right? Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so, you know, I just, I can't unlearn that imagery in thinking about things like that as it pertains to, you know, style of marriage and all sorts of shit, especially with plant

medicines, you know, that's, I really beat the drum on ayahuasca and so many things because it was revealing to me so many great truths as almost a remembrance of like, oh, yeah, the eterneness of my soul was just like, of course, what the fuck? I didn't need to read that. I just, just, I remembered, you know. Yeah. And, and even practical things like ayahuasca telling me repeatedly to do yoga and to meditate. And like, you don't have to do yoga, but you got to open your body.

You're stiff. Yeah. You know, and you need to meditate. You need to find stillness. That can be in nature. It can be quiet in the lotus. But fuck, meditate, right? Like, do it.

Actually practice it. And, you know, both of those pieces, even though I wouldn't call myself like a yogi, I do some form mobility every day now. Yeah. And I don't train in the same way. kicking my ass like I used to, and I meditate all the time, even if I'm not sitting in the dark room, right? I'll meditate while I'm doing the dishes. I'll meditate on the walk. And that's been a game changer, especially considering, you know, the speeding up, the ramping up of reality, right, as progress becomes faster and faster. And Aramon's got its teeth sunk in,

you know, like that just, the only thing that saving grace has created space for me in my life in these past few years have been meditation in a way that plant medicines never really could. Right. You know, so I love my journeys. And, you know, as you talked with Aaron Abke, there's quite a few people that are going back to the wishing well, you know, at every turn and not necessarily making big changes in their lives. Yeah. And that's for people who can have positive journeys, right? There's a whole group of people that shouldn't mess with it, you know, they're not mentally sound.

And check talks about that. If you can't quiet your mind for five minutes of meditation, what do you think is going to happen when you unleash the unconscious, right? Like everything you buried down in there, all the skeletons in the closet. are going to be full volume. So, you know, I used to laugh when people make a disclaimer and say it's not for everyone. And I'm like, God, shut up, dude. Just get to the juicy part. You know, tell me how much you did.

You know, tell me about your experience. Give me the trip report. And now I'm that old fart saying the same shit. Yeah. So, anywho, though, you know, I loved your background. I loved hearing. I felt a lot of resonance in your upbringing and the fact that, like, you were a wild band. You spent so many years out of your body.

And all of that was the comeback to appreciate being grounded. being centered to being right here as a human and I love that that was like oh man that feels that feels that feels a lot like uh you know the shit I was doing from teens through college and beyond and there is a deep appreciation and gratitude for our humanness and for being connected to the earth that I don't think I would have had otherwise yeah so love that I definitely want to jump into Steiner a little bit more since we were I think a little bit more skewed to love one the last one and I'd love to talk Christ and I'd love to talk you know these practical pieces something you talked about on Aaron's podcast was how Steiner was very practical in his ways of

making contact, his ways of creating change and knowing higher worlds and things of that nature. Yeah. But first, kids, right? Kids, I wrote you these questions, you know, why did Steiner recommend that teaching kids esoterica, you don't teach it until they're 21 years old? And I framed this with like, Steiner, of course, created Waldorf schools, but he was brilliant. Even if your kids don't go to Waldorf, he's worth understanding for many reasons, right? Don't force a kid to read until they're seven because they can skew them into that rational thinking mind at an early age.

And that can affect their creativity and their intuition. Their evolution. Yeah, absolutely, right? And we're already skewed as a society that direction. So anything we can do to kind of, you can toss that on the ground there, anything that we can do to stave off that part and enhance this other, you know, feminine aspect, the piece that's in tune, and the piece that's a felt part of our lives. Like, there's never been a more important time for that. So I really like taking some of these core tenants.

I love the concepts of, you know, every seven years, there's a cycle and a shift and something else to pay attention to. Yeah. So I'd love to dive into some of that stuff from Steiner on kids. And then also let's answer that question. Why not until 21? For Steiner, the eye being hasn't actually come into the body until 21. So the first 21 years is the growth of the physical.

body from zero to seven, the energy body or ethoric body from seven to 14, and the feeling body, also, but feeling thinking, because they're in high school and moving into college, they, we. And then at 21, the eye being enters in. And the eye being is the part of the human being that came in or comes in through blood, lymph a little bit, but blood most especially. and the reason that it comes in through the blood is because the liquid portion of what we are is the lowest body that angels can inhabit because their thinking is so immediate, it's so intuitive, it's so flash that it has to be that level of fluid and metamorphosis. It always is changing and different.

So from one instant to the next, the capacity of thinking at the angelic level is is that is so far beyond neuroplastic. Yeah. And our opportunity is to move to that level. And the way we move to that level is to develop the eye being, which is the ego is sort of the shadow side of that. This piece you're talking about, you know,

you don't want to invite a kid to read really until they blossom. Now some kids naturally move toward it. Nobody brings them to it. And that's, see, it's important not to not to try to put numbers and names and you know then you then you get into a lower mathematician kind of thinking which is like number measure and weight one size fits all yeah like you know when you work out you do this many reps and if you're this weight and this is how many calories and all this stuff that's it just grinds the body to dust and the soul along with it so the idea is to

represent the uniqueness but in general there are these general trends of development of the three bodies. And then this fourth body comes in from age 21 to 28. Again, general. And this I being is the birth of the first of the three soul bodies, the sentient soul. And if the child has, has, you know, raised him or herself in a beautiful way, then their physical body is balanced because of the first seven years. And they've really made it their own. They don't look like their parents. They don't move like their parents. They have done away with what was important in an old epoch, which would be, as you said, we could do 100 or 100,000 different podcasts. The whole 42 generations of building up a perfect body genetically for this Christ being to come in, who was

the original Adam, was under the regency of Gabriel, of this archangel, because the bloodline was so important for that so that at the moment of the crucifixion that special substance of blood containing that level of consciousness the moment it touched the earth gave this possibility for rejuvenation for the human race and the planet but right at that moment then we also moved on just like angelic thinking is metamorphic we moved on almost instantaneously in terms of in terms of cosmic time to a Mike Ayal consciousness from a Gabriel. Gabriel was the bloodline and heredity. Mike Isle is around the feeling thinking that leads toward freedom.

And this is why Steiner wrote his dissertation on thinking from a philosophical point of view and bringing further the thoughts of Hegel and Wittgenstein, these individuals Kant, who couldn't go any further in a particular way because they didn't reach the threshold of the spiritual world in thought, and Steiner did. And then he gave metacognition levels of imagination as a cognition, inspiration and intuition as a cognition. When you're 21, you have the capacity, if you've, especially if you've been raised in a Walder's school and gone to maybe even a Waldorf college,

you have the capacity not just for cognition, but for metacognition. this is why you wait. It's a little bit, the analogy would be when I was an athletic director. I had my colleague, Dean Stark, wrote a book on Waldorf Sports. And he had watched, he's probably been 50 years now watching kids in high school move through the sport realm. And he taught all kinds of different. He was a baseball player, but he taught all kinds of different sports. And what he noticed was that the kids that played without rules,

completely freely, social, lots of fun and laughter, no time limits, just all kinds of crazy, whatever antics you want to do on the basketball court or whatever, ended up loving the game throughout their lives because now kids that he taught when they were seven are now like 40 or 50. It's crazy, right? And he sees that they still love the game, and they're also good at it, and they play beautifully, and they lose gracefully. The contrast is kids that were drilled early on and came into a very rigid, you know, time on the clock, change of possession with no creativity and with no freedom of time or space, but a constriction of time and space as they're trying to come into time and space in their bodies and in the stream of time in the world, they're feeling that these things all have these rigid parameters to them, kind of the opposite of Austin. very aramonic.

And so if the child is able to come into sport naturally in that way, then they become more like an Athenian athlete than a Spartan sport. In other words, they have the capacity to think on the court, to think in motion, to be able to be present to all parts of themselves. That's what we're looking for and why we wait to bring anything esoteric because the individuals, when they're moving through zero to 21, need to be incarnating, not ex-carnating. Esoteric brings us into excarnation,

brings us into the connection with the cosmos. These kids are coming from the cosmos. They're spiritual beings, learning to become human beings in their three bodies. Now, once they get to 21, they have the capacity. It could even happen at their moon node. So sometimes to an 18 and a half and 21, That's, for example, what happened to me when I met Chief Little Summer was the moon node can turn around and all of a sudden you start to remember who you are.

If you've had some kind of particular development experiences, it could be great suffering, by the way. Could be suffering, could be what's called trauma. That's often a way to crack you open to then take you out of your mind and into your greater mind. There are all kinds of ways to get there. Extreme sport can be a way to get there. extreme discipline in any area can get you there. What it does is it kind of exhaust the intellectual frame. It brings it to a threshold.

And then you're able to step into the metacognition of what Steiner calls imagination, which again to get into that would take another podcast. But he has a very specific process for how you go through developing the 12 senses through zero to 21, and then you step off body at 20. and step into the realm of imagination, which is not fantasy. It's the opposite of fantasy. It's a common sense, very practical step toward being outside your body, but still just as conscious as being inside your body,

with the 12 senses as a foundation. And that happens from 21 to 28. And at 28, the sentient soul then opens itself to, ironically, the intellectual soul. But now you have the feeling for truth. And that's what you're looking for. You don't want a sclerotified 20-year-old-year-old kid going into or out of college, into the life force, into relationships with a feeling that content is important. It's not. Discernment is important.

And how do you know when something resonates with you? You have a feeling for it that says absolutely yes. Or it says, hell no. And usually there's when the heart is deciding, it's clear. it's not like well maybe well let me look at the pros and cons that's the head that's all the head so that's what you're looking for so the so the the later that comes in for that young adult then they have the time during that that 21 to 28 before the Saturn return comes in which is a strict taskmaster which says great now that you've had this beautiful time

to feel into your soul this is what your task is here on the planet And again, these are the wide guardrails or sort of tendencies of human beings. It could happen earlier or later for some. But you find your way toward your destiny by a feeling, thinking quality that happens in your 20s. And then you're off and running. Then you're just like laser-focused for the next seven years on your task and your mission with a lot of energy to do so. And then at 35, what both Steiner and Jung and a number of esoterrorists is called the the sort of bottom of the bowl, you're furthest away from your angel.

So you're the most free in your capacity as a human being. And now you have the capacity to weave together the intellect that you've developed and the sentient feeling soul that you've developed in the last, whatever that is, 14, 15 years. And weave it together into what is called a consciousness soul. And that consciousness soul is the weaving of wisdom and love, basically, together for that next seven-year period. And then you move into your, those are, that's the end of your sun phase from 21 to 42.

Then you move into your masculine planet years, for lack of a better term, because the first three planets that are spiritual planets, which is, again, another podcast. All right, guys, quick break to tell you about what I've been up to. This year has been a year of transition for me. with fit for service making huge changes. I've been working to create my own community.

I still don't have a name for it yet. That is in the works. I'm brewing on it. But one of the things that I have come to understand is what this community is about. And so I want to give you a little hint here and let you guys drop in. I'd love to get your feedback.

And there's a link at the top of the page here if you guys are interested at all. All right. So join in a transformative journey with our exclusive community where a like-minded individuals come together to explore the realms of body, mind, and connection. For $150 a month, you'll gain access to a treasure trove of wisdom from hundreds of podcast guests,

a lifetime of learning and human optimization, and the teachings of legends like Paul Check, James Clear, and so many others. Reconnect with your inner compass and discover the freedom, health, and sovereignty that await. Embrace the journey to excellence because we are what we repeatedly do. If that interests you, peep the link in the show notes for the community, and we will get you guys locked in. All right, back to the podcast. The moon, Mercury, and Venus are feminine planets. Feminine planets are in charge of the formation of the three bodies, physical, ether, and astral. The sun phase is the next 21-year period, from 21 to 42. And from 42 to 56 or 63, you're developing through your Mars period, your Jupiter period, and your Saturn period, which is the spiritual.

masculine, but all of these things, of course, have a balance with feminine and masculine. They're really whole, they're whole exercises. So Mars from 42 to 49 focuses on what might be called wrath, but wrath has been mistranslated from the Greek, for example. Wrath is really a kind of a righteous, deep passion for the expression of the expression of wanting in the world what is needed. It's not aggression. It's not anger. It's not the Old Testament gods. It's a very noble. It's a very noble activity. And Mars does that through the active, conscious use of speech and language. And that is the goal that the word, and actually right now in December, this is a very important time to be very conscious of speech. There are virtues for each of the

months and this month is speech control leads to a feeling for truth. Otherwise, we are timid and anxious if we're holding our truth, if we're afraid to share who we are and what we feel we've come to bring. And so practicing that word leading toward this return of light in ourselves is the essence of what the month of December is. So we could go on forever. This is great. Well, You had to do it exactly where I wanted to go. Oh, yeah. I'm in 43, and I've been wondering what's 42 to 49 look like. Yeah.

And it is December, so I've been wondering about that. So that's, that's rad. That makes a lot of sense. It's funny. My wife is also pretty intuitive. And, you know, I don't curse very often and very rarely around the kids. But if I'm mad, I never curse at them, by the way. Never cursed to my wife once.

But, you know, if I get mad, I might have a curse word or something like that. And she's just, you know, she wants that gone. And I'm like, but. but that was every other word when I was growing up. I'm so much better. Like if you could just sit for five minutes at my house, you'd be like, dang, you came a long way. But that also resonates with me.

You know, that and I've loved the four agreements. And I think being impeccable with your word, it's not just about honesty, right? It is about that right use of language, you know. And I feel like there is something important in measuring the things that are coming out of my mouth, especially around the people I love, especially around my children.

But also in what we're sharing. And that resonates big time with the whole, what's that quote? Is it young or Christ where they say the thing inside you? If you share it with the world, it'll save you. But if you don't, it'll kill you. Yeah. Seiner says the same thing.

He says, every idea that doesn't become an ideal for you slays a force in your soul. Yeah. So if you don't put something, into the world and this is the thing I think he was best at and in terms of all the esoterics that I have reflected on is how does this come into community how does this affect society he was always interested in how do the how do we make these practical and how do they serve not just you like your own personal

development he had no interest in that actually his full interest was in how do you offer what it is that you're gleaning and he was an example of that how do you offer that out to the world Yeah, and there's a gift from each of us, right? A unique gift from each of us. And so that gets withheld. That gift is being withheld from the totality. Yeah.

It's beyond just this is going to help you out, right? It is for the all. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Well, I don't know exactly know where to jump in on this, but I think this might be the biggest piece of the conversation is something that you've talked about before, but you guys went in a little deeper with Aaron's podcast.

I would love to know what is the Phantom. body. What is the history of it? What is the importance of it? And of course, this gets into the story of Christ. So let's jump right into there. And if we have time for some of the other practical stuff, we can do that. But take as long as you want to unpack this, because I was fascinated with this part of your guy's conversation. Okay. And I'm sure I'd heard it before, but it hadn't really hit me in the way that it hit me with the podcast that you sent. Yeah. Well, if you've heard it Before I'd be interested in knowing where. I mean, it might have been from you or somebody that just talked about it in the first podcast, but we didn't spend as much time on it.

Yes, got it. This was like unpacked for me in a way where I was like, holy shit, this is really important. We should talk about this. It is. It is. The phantom body is this body, and it's a weird name. So just let's say that at the outset. It's this body that's in between the physical body and the ether body. And the way that it really has come, I think, more conscious to us is because of the distortions that have taken place in the physical body through neurotoxins, through the whole COVID situation.

So we started to notice, we didn't have a good relationship to our phantom body before that, but now we really see in Stark outline what this relationship to the phantom body is and what it needs to be. And so what this is is a body that is, it forms the physical body and it's informed by both the aetheric and the astrobody or the feeling body and even the eye. But you can't directly affect the phantom body, which is really cool. The way that it gets affected is by you working the other bodies. So being, as you said, impeccable with your word. doing a kind of a, every once in a while check in with yourself on how am I in right relationship with my use of power, for example, with my use of feeling possessive of either things or people, with my fear of being possessed by people. So if I'm either leaning toward or away from

being possessed or possessing, then how do I move back into balance with that? That's all second chakra, a second energy center activity, that use of power then is directly translated into the phantom body to free that body to be more able to imprint back upon the physical body to rejuvenate it. With the help of that angelic help I was telling you about, because how do we recycle? And it's the breath I hear you just take in this moment, and it's that breath coming into the blood, the blood coming into the lymph. All of that is in every moment rejuvenating us, or it's not, or it's not, or we're listening to death metal music and we're jangling all that stuff up and it's just going, whoa, I don't

know how to organize around this. And so relating that sense of power or possession until you recognize that you're, as you said, back in the middle way of it, which is not just the Christ path, but I mean the Buddha way is clearly the middle way. All religions start to become spiritualized when they recognized, oh, the subtle balancing of everything until I recognize that in the middle of each duality stands the presence and that I can become more of that I am presence in every moment

and just enjoy this play of duality around me. That is the middle way. Real quick, I just wanted to say something that to the late great Dr. Robert Gilbert really always resonated with me, you know, with the Vesica Pisces Institute. I was like, you know, I had them on the podcast. I'm like, why would you, you know, that's an interesting name, you know? Like, why would you name that, you know? And it actually became one of my pieces of art here.

Yeah. Right? And so I think of that as the middle way, you know, where these things, yes, both light and dark, yes, both red and blue, yes, both and, both and. But the and is where those pieces line up and converge. And so that's a very beautiful way of thinking about that convergence. Yeah. So that's sort of an individual picture of the importance of the phantom body and how you work on all of the other bodies.

I just gave one example from this shocker center and the power center in the Hara. But you could use any of the seven primary energy centers or the tertiary. I mean, you could go as more subtly as you would like to go. And there's really no end to that. the more macro level importance of the phantom body is the the deed of this this christ principle this being that came all the way down through these different bodies this phantom body would also be called a resurrection body so what what he wanted to do and what he did succeed at was to move as deeply down into matter as he could all the way down to the physical level, which was a major work of suffering for him,

transmuted into love at every step through the most exruciating pain that any human being, which he was, has ever experienced. And that love, after it had been transmuted from that deep suffering, what it does is it digs so deep that any level of suffering that a human being has experienced is felt to be experienced by that being and more. So when he sat down after a day of carpentry with a group of individuals and was among them, they so deeply felt themselves in him that they felt there was almost no difference. And they couldn't quite understand that. But understanding wasn't the point. It was a feeling. And so then when he went away from them and went to his own place to lie down at the end of the evening, somewhere else. And

some other town, they still felt that he was right there. And they felt that because of the phantom body, because his love for this deep sense of materialism that we call the body, and then the materialistic nature that we all are moved into, was continually being lifted back up to the higher hierarchies by him. He was basically feeding this source of experience to not just to human beings, but to all cosmic beings. So they could really understand what's happening on this planet to this group of individuals because they're so exalted they're not in this bodied state they can only sort of get you know the telephone game information passed up we could guess out what it's like for an ant to live or that's it's it or something like that

but we don't really know no that's a beautiful analogy try to step down into that kind of consciousness and that's that's actually again it's another podcast but it's what gets invited during this time the advent, we're in the plant week right now. So to actually not lower ourselves, but, but, you know, equilibrate, harmonize our consciousness with the existence of that beautiful plant right now, right, and this beautiful plant. And to feel the purity of the impulse simply to grow without a desire body. Because that's what these, that's what these beings are for us, is they are showing us this is what it's like simply to grow and evolve and to develop as a beautiful pure impulse to grow with no desire and no motive no wishes or intentions they don't have those

bodies developed and we have that plant body it's our aetheric body and so it reflects the purity that's possible in our etheric body and as we purify that atheric body again the phantom body has more space to imprint itself to rejuvenate this all of these like supplements and diet and all of these things that we're trying to do outwardly this can all be achieved by consciousness and this this is the whole point that christ came and showed listen guys you can take this physical body which has been so distorted over eons and then you can raise it back up to the level of actually you can take it with you consciously. That's the resurrection body.

That's what the phantom body is. It's our capacity to love this body so much. Understand its true origins as a spirit body, and quantum physics can show us that, that it seems like matter, it seems like it's solid, but we're as wide as this beautiful property that you're on right now. And it's mostly spaciousness. and we know this, but we haven't really begun the practice of it yet.

What does it really mean to practice that kind of spaciousness with the physical body and to love it so much that we take it with us? And this is why Steiner recognized it's the eastern path for him to synthesize with the western path is the eastern path always had this idea of the death of the ego. But he says, no, we need to take the intellect and refine it to its highest. capacity because then if we so-called sacrifice it then wonderful but until we sacrifice it we need it in order to have a kind of discipline and awareness to continue to work in this material reality otherwise we get too luciferic right or a complete death of the ego you know as paul would say is

the the loss of individuation you do you know like if you go and maybe i'm misinterpreting or reading it incorrectly, but you blast off on a high enough dose of 5MEO, right? You go to a place where there's nothing to report back on, right? Like you are so, the eye is so gone, the ego is so far removed, and that the merger with unity consciousness is so strong that you come out of that, and you're like, well, it turned all white, and it felt like my, by every cell of my body was buzzing, and then it came back, right? Well, there was minutes, eternity, right, in that space.

Eternity happened in between there and there's nothing to report back on because you fully dissolved the ego in that space. And so I think there is an argument, perhaps using that wording correctly, but, you know, the eye consciousness, if it had the light in the dark, the light being, you know, an eye consciousness that is holistic and in right relation with things. And the egoic is me, me, me, you know, self-driven. And you could dissolve that me, me, me, dark side, right? But you wouldn't want to dissolve the entire thing that understands differentiation in me instead of you. Yeah, I mean, I love that you called it, you know, this white space because you've entered the off-limits ski mountain slope there.

What happens is you said you could dissolve the, no, you didn't dissolve it. The drug dissolved it. It's, I would say, mind the gap. You didn't, you weren't conscious. and able to take the necessary steps to this conscious feeling of unity. Otherwise, you'd be able to report back. And that's the whole point of what Steiner's trying to bring and what this phantom body is about,

is Christ took the steps to step all the way down through all the different seven bodies that we have, actually nine. But he also took steps to come. He's way higher than that. So intuition, inspiration, imagination, each of those are bodies and beings and processes that are above the human being. He came down through those bodies as well. So as he stepped down this ladder to inhabit the sort of grossest part of us,

the material body, he went through, it's like a basketball coach understanding everything that could go wrong for your shot, for your dribble, for how you defend, for running down the court, for every aspect of the game. that's what the Christ did all the way down on the physical level. And why did he do that so that when people came into his presence, they would at some level, some of them more consciously, some of them super consciously, a few, very few. Some of them sort of in a dream time state and some of them very deep trance state.

But they all on some level would get, this guy gets it. He's experienced it. He doesn't just know it. He dropped down so he could feel it. And so he could sense it. And then he took it and raised it all back up into a light body. And so he moved us from this bloodline body focus of heredity to this thought line focus, from a bloodstream to a light stream.

Really, that's what blood is when it's seen in its clarity. The eye being is a being of light. And it enlivens blood. We'll be able to create ourselves. we'll get to the creator level through our lyrics, through our word, through the Mars, which by the way, Michael is the region of, is that Mars force. That's why before Michael, he was called St. George and the Dragon, because it's not a killing of the dragon. It's a taming of the reptilian brain that we're talking about.

It's a taming and a harmonizing. We're not looking to kill Aramon. You don't kill anything, really. nothing, you know, Aramon has a beautiful purpose in us, which is to consolidate. Lucifer, his purpose had been to expand when he was incarnate four thousand years ago as Yellow Emperor in China. Then the Christ came to say, this is the middle way. Now Armand says this is the way to contract. They're all working in harmony. And we, our ability to really feel that and to feel, oh, wow, I'm really moving toward expansion. I'm really moving.

moving toward contraction. I'm really moving toward center. And then to note, oh, there's a part of me that's actually just watching all that go on. I'm not moving anywhere. That part is completely centered, has no need to think or feel or do, is just with it, being with. And that feeling then, it's a moment. And then we just let it go. But the moment then returns and we let it go. We always let it go. and those moments then start to grow to where it becomes a meditative doing the dishes, doing the laundry,

making love with your wife, running down the street with your kids, banging a fence post. Everything becomes a sacred act. And this is what that Christ phantom body was able to show to the physical body that every move that you make is a sacred act. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. I have a couple of the things written here, but one of the things that I keep, I don't know, brushing up against is, is, you know, the,

and Paul also laughingly, you know, he put it this way, he's like, oh, I get all these kids that are 21 that are, you know,

telling me about sperm retention and all their shit. And he's like, you know, go out and have all the sex you want, do all the things you want to do. And then when you're older and you've satisfied all those desires,

then do the semen retention, right? You're like, You're listening to Sade Guru was 80 years old. He probably can't even get hard. Of course he's retaining semen and not ejaculating. You know, like, he doesn't have the option to. When you're 16 and you're busting six to eight balls a day, like you've got to lean into that.

Imagine trying to stop yourself. It's just going to erupt in the middle of the night and you change the sheets every day. Yeah, blue balls. So, oh, horrid. It's fun. My son's 10 and I'm like, buddy, you are in for it. Right. Just go for it.

You just ride around the corner. It's going to be hell. but I frequently come up, you know, and some of this comes up in the second coming of Christ as Yoga Nanda teaches it because it's, you know, coming from a yogi. It's coming from an Eastern practitioner. The idea of renunciation as a doorway to climb those ladders. Yes. And, you know, there is some leeway in that background for householders, right? I mean, even if you take meditation, for example, as far as I'm understanding, you know, 6,000 years ago, you had

monks arguing with teachers saying you can't give householders a mantra right that's a cheat code and then those guys arguing back they need a cheat code they have jobs they have a wife and kids they need it more than you do they're doing shit they don't have all day to master this they only got 20 minutes a day so let's give them the cheat code that way they can have the experience yeah right and i and i've loved that in it specifically that story because mantra has changed the way i meditated fucking every gadget gizmo binoral beats all this shit never understood it yeah mantra meditation from Emily Fletcher, boom, I'm just dropping in like, wow, that's what the fuck they were talking about for all those years.

My buddy, Savon to St. Michael Holt, good friends with Jason Picard introduced us. It was a chequey. You know, got me one step further where it's just like, I'm meditating with him and then now just alone. Even if I don't meditate the next two days, there's such a sense of spaciousness from that one drop in that it's lasting days long, kind of the way a journey used to be for me, where I'd have, you know, a weekend with ayahuasca. And for the next two weeks, I'm just beaming, right?

Yeah. So there's such magic in that. And I credit them for that. But, you know, I bring up the story on the householders because there is some leniency for householders. And even if you follow Yogananda's, what would you, how would you put that lineage, for lack of a better term, you know, Sri Yuk Deswar before them, Lahiri Mahasai. Mahasai was a householder, right?

And then Babaji was the guy who brought it. in Lahiri, which is really cool. He's like, no, you're going to, you have to be a householder. You're going to stay married. You're going to raise your kids. You're going to keep your job at the post office or whatever. And then you're going to show that this is possible. And so that's super resonant too because for most people that dive into this stuff,

in particular with the East, or if you take some of the biblical text as literal, right, which is a problem. You take some of that as literal in terms of, you know, really when you speak to being in this world but not of this world, that resonates more with me than when I read some of the things in there that are like, you know, give up all their shit and just focus here. And that's the only way. Right. So I would love to bring that up. You know, everything is nuance, you know, 50 shades of color and out of gray, as you mentioned earlier on the voice text. There's such vibrancy in between the black and white. Break that down for us because this is something, you know, I continue to struggle with

and I continue to see other people trying to wrap their head around that as you, as you dive down the rabbit hole of let me really look into this Western teaching and then, oh, hey, they're saying some stuff that's kind of hard to deal with. And then let me really look into the Eastern teaching. They're the same, the same shit. You know, like, what is that? All right, guys, quick break to tell you about one of our longest running show's sponsors, lucy.com.

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And it's about a 45-minute window of awesomeness. And there you go. Lucy.co slash KKP for 20% off. The last probably 100 and, yeah, 100 years, I'd say 150 by now. More and more individuals have incarnated on the planet who have a capacity to naturally synthesize east-west to where it's no longer east-west. And certainly that was for Steiner, one of his, one of his goals. to speak in such a way that he honored both the theosophical roots that he came from with Madden Bolvatsky and Annie Besant and Charles Ledbeter and speaking to that audience. And then interestingly enough, when he broke from that,

because they said that Krishna Murdi was the reincarnation of Christ, and he said, Christ will never come back in a physical body. That's not the point. You'll come back in an energetic body. he raised the phantom body that's the resurrection body that's our opportunity to move toward we can all come into a physical body he showed you can come into a physical body and resurrect it that's our opportunity now you know that's our that's our invitation when he moved and shifted he took he didn't take they've they said that we get that what you're offering is the next

iteration of this eastern path that we've been following with lead beater and bassant and so forth. And so they moved from theosophy to anthroposophia, which is, Anthropos means the masculine aspect, Sophia, the feminine aspect, weaving that together. And he, like Jung, who was a contemporary, understood that at a deep level, that everything is energy. That's, we're looking to return to wholeness. And the phantom body is not a feminine or masculine body. It's a whole body. It is the original imprint of what the human being was when he was created by the seven Elohim, when they all came together, the spirits of form.

And so that's what we're feeling our way back into in relationship to this body that sits between our physical and our etheric body. And if you can just take a moment and feel that, notice this body that plays eternally in between the physical and this invisible body. This is the body we're trying to become conscious of, and everything is working toward freeing that body by freeing the other bodies, not by freeing the phantom body directly. That really is the work, and everything points toward that.

And so it isn't necessarily this focus on the death of this physical body. It was on the eternal resurrection of this phantom body and how we were given it as a gift before the fall. And how now we can gift it to ourselves through our own working, through climbing that mountain that you're talking about or skiing down that mountain. and everybody gets to do it under their own power in their own timeline. And whether you're a householder, whether you've never heard of Christ, none of those things actually matter. There's no one coming to save us.

We are our saviors and we're our tempters and our tormentors as well. We are that portion of creator that has the choice to do all those things. And Steiner made that information available to everyone. in as clear a form as he could do it. Now it's still pretty heavy, and it's in German. It's been translated, but the translator is only as good as their capacity, their consciousness, their practices.

The wonderful thing is there's been a resurgence to where not just a householder, but anyone of any religion, any faith, any non-faith, as you said, a lot of individuals have moved away from the church or whatever religion they've had, because they can't feel the life and the substance of it. And all they need to do, if they want to, is now turn inward, and that life and substance has always been there.

And they don't need anything outside of themselves to get there. And that's the beauty of where we are right now. Everything has been queued up. We've all queued it up for ourselves. And all we need to do is, as you've said, take the time, whether it's a tone mantra that you're using or a word mantra, what Steiner offered as kind of a new impulse is what he called a thought mantra, which again, we could talk about it maybe at some other time. But that thought mantra is the outgrowth of this movement taking the

eastern path and adding to it the western path. And once we live in the thought mantra together, then we no longer need language. And when we no longer need language, we're in the telepathic realm with one another. This is what he was trying to offer. This is what he was able to do when he sat with people. He was able to recognize the thoughts that came into them because they were visible to him.

And he didn't attach them to that person as the person himself sitting in front of Steiner would tend to do. You see? And this is why an individual who's at this level is able to see those thoughts because he doesn't take them personally himself and he doesn't personalize them for the person who's in front of him. Nor does he do it with the feelings. Those are simply around us all the time as beings who are seeking our attention. Oh, here's fear. Oh, here's joy.

Oh, here's the thought that I'm doing things well. Oh, here's the thought that I'm a shithead, right? All those are just opportunities to think. opportunities to feel, opportunities to have a certain sensation of something. It's all freedom. And so the householder, the sexual congress with your wife, the whatever it is that you want to do physically, this is why Oscar Wilde said that the only way to resist the temptation is to yield to it. The 15-year-old needs to masturbate four or five times a day because let's find out what that is.

you know. Ram Dass said the only thing renunciation did was was, was, what did he say? He had one on, uh,

he quit cigarettes. All I could do is thinking about cigarettes when he, when he, when he became celibate, all he thought about was sex. Yeah. So he was just like, I might as well fucking smoke and have sex.

Absolutely. Just as much a part of me when I'm saying no to it. Yeah. More so even than when I would have the thing, because at least when I'd have the thing, there'd be space and satisfaction of having had the thing. And then I had clarity. in between before the desire would come up, as opposed to 24-7.

Yeah. Thinking on that. Ron Steiner both say in their own words very, very much the same thing. Ross says, you know, wise renunciation of renunciation is the best path. Because if you're stuck in this place, then you're stuck and you haven't gotten over it. It's still in your thought life. And so go and enjoy it. And Ross is the same thing.

whatever you feel the need to experience, as long as it's not going to be a service against someone else, if I'm going to somehow be not serving you in a very negative way by doing something, then with, I mean, if, if I don't know what it would be, like if I want to go run 20 miles with you and you're like, bro, I'm only up for about 10 or I think it would really hurt. I mean, yeah, we've got to do this and I push you to do that. That's not something that we get to experience together that would, in the, the end be helpful because I'm overriding your free will, your sense of self-care, to really try to encourage you. Those are things to be mindful of. But as long as that's not happening or we're

not harming ourselves, then all is welcome. If like you said, I never yell at my wife. I don't use, you know, cursing and things like that. Even when the impulse comes, you recognize that's not something that... Not an option. It's not an option. It wouldn't be service. And how do I, integrate it and honor it in myself so that I'm not repressing it. In other words, I'm not necessarily saying it, but that's anger at upstream is an energy and it's a tremendous force. So here comes a big, you know, flash flood warning coming and it's about to hit a dam and that kind of inner destruction is not helpful. So how do I use that? And it's a little bit like semen retention. you're not retaining the semen, you're flowing energy up through the higher chakras.

So just start with, not the idea of how do I retain this, but how do I let this energy flow up and just notice what happens. And some of that energy will be blissfully at the first chakra, and some of it will flow up to the second, some third. And you just, you get to notice it and be playful. and gentle with yourself. A lot of these practices get very rigidified and masculinized in people. And we hurt ourselves as a result of that.

I see people doing yoga postures as a yoga instructor that they have no business doing. But they see people watching them. There's mirrors everywhere. And all of a sudden they blow out their knee. It's like you were not listening because your knee had been talking to you way the hell before you blew it out. It didn't just sit there quietly and go, I'm all good. No pain here It went tweak first and then it went

Ouch and so You know stretching into Lying down on your back with your legs Bent underneath you is not something a lot of people Can do and certainly not stay in that pose And not get harmed by it And it's a slow working toward And it's the same principle as you said in the spiritual way

How do I get to unity conscious? Consciously That's what Steiner recommended And it doesn't matter whether you're a house holder or in some ways I'm going to talk against myself or a kid because there are children who have come into this world and clearly already have an opening. They're more the exception than the rule. So you don't wait until 21 when a kid comes to you and asks you a question that has come out of herself. You answer that question, usually with a question, usually with interest. Like tell me more

about that and let them remember who they are as a result of that. So there's no need to squire wash that. And I do want to make sure that we say that as part of this, you know, why don't you bring esoterica before age 21? It's not that you don't or can't. It's that in general, you want to make sure that these other processes have taken place. And I would tend to want to say it that way. And because, of course, that also engages one's thinking rather than says, nope, you know, just like the driving a car or whatever it is. What has to take place and be sufficiently develop so that a person can step off body and still stay grounded and connected and not suffer deleterous effects and not suffer personality distortions, personality disorders as a

result of those things as opening too quickly and not having what's needed. Right. And that opening too quickly, just to be clear, can be opening too quickly at any age based on what your level's at. And we had my father dated a woman for years after my wife. very long relationship almost as long as he was together with my mom. They were together for 15 years before getting divorced. And, you know, they saw us in our early days working with the plants and specifically with ayahuasca. And this woman had not a problem with alcohol, but she drank a lot.

You know, she drank a lot of wine. Then, you know, she was interested. And so she came with us to sit with ayahuasca and self-reported, beautiful experience. you know, finds the practitioners and, you know, we end up leaving into another state and obviously, you know, I had found different practitioners and then also started to just feel our own way into the world of like, oh, cool, now I have this practice that I can use daily. I don't have to wait, you know, two months till the next ceremony to ask ayahuasca, but what I need to do in my life, I can actually just sit with that meditation and that answer is going to come to me, right?

But yeah, very quick, you know, we came home to visit, and then one day it was, is, oh, she, she wants you to call her Madre now. And I was like, what the fuck? I was like, no, she doesn't. No, she doesn't. She doesn't need to be called Madre. What the fuck is that, dude? I was like, oh my God.

You know, just beating a little Native American drum nonstop at the beach. And I'm just like, damn, man. Like, we fucked up. We messed up here. Yeah. But, you know, to, to, to, it's fun to poke fun in it. But also, you know, there's other thing there is that some people, if they don't really know themselves, are searching for the thing they can cling to. And we see this, you know, with the woke left, right?

How do I identify as who I want to fuck? That's my identity. I identify as, you know, any gradient of gender that's not normal because, you know, I'm not normal. And I want to be, you know, it's a new blue black hair from Hot Topic with an eyebrow ring. That's what that is. Right. And so, in you, but that's a mislabeling of identifying. You're identifying with something that's just a part of, it comes after I am.

Yeah. It's not a part of the I am. Yeah. You know, it's, yeah. I am dot dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Of course, you're all those things. But that's not what you actually are, right? But that identification with that.

And so if you don't have that and you've ripped the guardrails off of what you previously knew to be yourself, then you can cling very quickly to the thing that you want to be or the thing like, hey, we have. had a beautiful practitioner. I really looked up to her. She changed my life. That's me. I'm that person, right?

I'm, I'm that person. I don't even need training. I'm that person right now. Iowaska told me, you know, and I've seen that more than once. That's a funny,

funny version of it, but there's some not funny versions of it, right? Yeah. And always unfortunate, even though I can laugh at it. It's unfortunate. It's super unfortunate. Because then it's just,

you know, it's not booze, but it's this plant or it's that thing. Yeah. And there's not any greater clarity there. You know, and I don't think people really talk about it.

They have like a bad trip conversation of like, this can go wrong, here's how. Yeah. Or it can, you know, you hear like Rick Doblin, I'll say there's no such thing as bad trips, only challenging moments. True.

And people can go off the fucking guardrails. Like permanently, they can change, you know, their thought process in a way that, and maybe it's not worse than what was before with the wine and the other identity, but it's no closer to the truth, right?

And I think Rondos talked about that when he was, you know, if somebody knew him from his Dick Alpert days as a therapist, you know, he's, you know, oh, Dick, how's it going? You know, oh, good, you know, shake the hand kind of thing. And then Baba Rondas, you know, he'd bow for him.

Same fucking outfit, same guy, but a different persona, right? Different way to approach people and how later on in his life how laughable that had been to him. You know, he could catch that, you know, the sneakiness of the ego attaching to these two different identities and, you know, or acting like he had transcended one because he went to the east and learned all these cool things. And now he's got a different name. And I just love that. You know, he'd tell you, that's in becoming nobody if people want to listen to it.

It's fantastic series of lectures that he did from spanning, I think, over the course of 10 years. So it's a really good one. But, I mean, that that's exactly what we can become too. you know, I'm the great spiritual master because this is how many drugs I've done. Here's my psychedelic passport. Or anything else for that matter. I'm super studied in this one thing.

So that makes me the expert on Buddha. That makes me the expert on Christ. It's all a role. It's all a role. And I mean, even, you know, even Rick saying, you know, there's no such thing as a bad trip. To have some kind of categorical imperative like this is, from a macro perspective,

sure, there's no such thing as a bad trip. There's no such thing as good and bad. But then there's no such thing as good and bad, so that's sort of immaterial. But when you're a personality, having a trip, you know, when that young kid at New College turned into a dog on a trip and couldn't get out of that, you know, I looked at Rick and I said, you know, that looks like a pretty bad fucking trip. And it was. That dude had a hard time. And that's not the only dude who had a hard time, you know, with Rick standing there. So I don't know how he's all this.

That was 40 years ago. The cannabis smoked that memory away. That's what I'm saying because, I mean, there were other times when, you know, there was a good friend of ours who was a super good friend to his. And the three of us were sitting on the wall one time. And she passed around a joint and unbeknownst to me, it had PCP in it. And, you know, so I wouldn't say it was a bad trip, but I would say there, you know, there were some mental work around. there that I had to do because I didn't know what was happening, you know, with that sort of cool sensation and then all of a sudden, wow, this is not, this is not any kind of marijuana I've ever

experienced. And it was never mentioned in the circle, you know. So there was no consciousness of it. And so to be surprised by that, for example, I mean, set in setting is pretty important. And there was that kind of, I would say, intellectual fuckery that takes place with people who are really super bright and highly experimental, but not just experimental with themselves. They want to see what happens for other people when consciousness is altered in a pretty severe way. That happened to our buddy Tim Corcoran. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, he's a lot of work through that. And that's his own story, but that is a, I was, I was blown away getting to hear that, you know. I've heard many stories and I've, and unfortunately, there are people who have not recovered from that. That's, in our world of personality, that's a fucking bad trip, dude. And so there is sort of an inner guidebook for the spiritual seeker of, let's just call it I'm making up a number, but a hundred things that need to be bodily checked, energetically

checked, emotionally checked, socially checked, mentally checked, and spiritually checked in yourself before you go off gallivanting into the universe like this. because you are taken on a trip. You're not meditating and in charge of your own trip. And truthfully, often when you're meditating, are you really in charge of your own trip? Are you directing each thought and choosing the next thought? Same thing with emotions.

Same thing with sensations. Are you really guiding that and conscious of it? That's what needs to be present before we go off body. Because even when we're so-called under our own power, If we're not guiding our own thinking, we are will of the wisp. And once a thought comes in, you have a nightmare in the middle of the night, and you wake up. What do you do? If you have a training practice in thinking, then you select the next thought.

If you don't, you go back to sleep and the nightmare continues. So those things, that's called continuity of consciousness, where you're able, even in the dream world, to start guiding your own consciousness. Can you do that? That's a very specific step in spiritual mastery. If you can't do that, be mindful of the fact that you're entering a kind of a dream time with any drug situation. It's analogous. And it goes on for a similar period of hours.

And so, you know, another analogy from a very physical perspective would be that as a gym teacher, when I was a physical educator, parents would always ask me, when could my kid get into whatever sport? you know, how old do they need to be? I said, this has nothing to do with age. This has to do with capacity. This has to do with skill development and not just physical skill development, but their social skill development,

their thinking development, their whole sense of self-image, there are checkpoints for all those things, and I would move them through how I teach children, how to move and come into their bodies, but not just their physical bodies. That's why I called myself a movement educator, not just a physical educator.

A movement educator is looking at the incarnation of all those bodies of young human beings as they progress through an early lifetime period. And there's a time when it's clear that that individual can step into the limitations of time and space. This is the opposite of a drug trip, by the way. Step into limitations of time and space because they're coming from drug trip state. They're coming from the universe. They're coming from this widest notion of being a cosmic being. look into a child's eyes and it's unmistakable. When can they come into an eight-minute timer with a 30-second shot clock with black lines around

that if you touch that line, everything freezes and there's a change of possession and still not only maintain their humanity, but become more themselves in that intensity? That's when they're ready. And there's a whole bunch that takes place that's very discreet. They're very clear before you get to that stage. But that takes a lot of consciousness, just saying, well, he's seven, we're ready to throw him in a little league, is abdication of the householder. And this is why the householder needed to be given what those steps are from those spiritual teachers. Because they didn't have a clue.

And look what happened to civilization as a result of, well, if they can't read Latin, then, you know, you'll have to come to us and we'll interpret for them what the good Lord is saying to them. That didn't go well. It went well for a few who amassed great fortunes out of it and still have them all over the planet. But for most of the schlubbs on the planet, it didn't go well at all. And so when we're 21 doesn't mean now they're ready. It means now they're generally at a place in their bodily development, their three spirit bodies, that they could be ready if all of these other parameters are, stabilized to a certain element in the human being.

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This is how you sell. This is how you're going to close. Always be closed. Yeah, ABCs put that cup down. And so, you know, I remember getting Wayne Dyer's books and really resonating with them and reading a little Deepak and kind of being on the fence, resonance-wise. And then Eckhart Tolly was like, fuck, this guy's on a different level. You know, really resonated with that.

Power than that was good, but a new earth was something. I've probably read a dozen times. And to the point where I could listen to him and enjoy it, most people are like, dude, you can't listen to the auto ball. I'm like, no, no, if you keep going and these teachings start to impact you in the way they have me, you'll actually appreciate this dude's cadence and his drawl and his slowness. He actually, he's singing the Eckart song, right? Like you can fucking bite with it.

But it does take time. It takes a long time to be able to get yourself. I'm like, what is he saying? Wow, that makes sense. And then like, you know what? I really appreciate this dude's way of speaking. Yeah, I don't want to disturb you. I want to put a pin in that and address it.

But keep going. Okay, no, that was just that was that was it. That 21 for me was the point where a natural curiosity came about. I had that curiosity before. That's why I was getting plastered on the weekend. You know, it was, yeah, there was social anxiety. we want a game or whatever the fucking thing was that my mind could actually track. Yeah.

You know, like, oh, I'm nervous around girls. Let's have some sane eyes. Whatever the thing was. But the reality was, you know, as I look back in hindsight, as I was pushing the envelope with whatever I get my hands on to make contact because I hadn't made contact in church. You know, I never did. There was points in nature where I could really feel a sense of stillness that I hadn't felt, you know, on video games or at home and especially not in the home.

But that was that search, you know, and randomly, I got not randomly or coincidentally. I know that exists, but, you know, my first time where I really made contact was we made a trip to Sedona from Arizona State. Okay. And, you know, party boys. We've got, you know, 24 packs of natural ice, a little bit of cocaine, some cannabis. And then I got this ounce of mushrooms, right? And so we're up that night drinking beers, not being super crazy. We're not in the club, but we're putting it down.

I have a couple key bumps. Go to bed late. And I wake up and I cook the mushrooms. in a skillet with bacon grease and make everyone a mushroom omelette. Everyone's, you know, under understanding of what's happening right now. We're all saying yes to it. I'm tricking anybody. Right.

For the mushroom omelette. But like even with that lack of reverence and intention, still found myself in like the holiest of spaces. Wow. And I give Sedona a lot of credit for being the container that it is to, you know, we're going to open this doorway a little bit and then have that blast off experience, you know. but that was like pure contact. Holy shit, dude.

Like, wow. And it took some time for me to even really want to retrace that because it was so powerful. I was like, I don't know what I want to do mushrooms again, you know, but like, man, did that answer a lot of questions? And, you know, I wasawaska for me later on was something that gave me more of an earth context and understanding of the environment and a want to be a part of that, a reintegration with that. You know, like, let's have houseplants. Let's put trees in the ground. Let's grow our own food. All that came from those experiences with ayahuasca.

But I say that because like that, you can find yourself, you know, a lot of experiences that are done that way would have gone wrong for many people. And that just happened to just fall right into place. But all that desire came in about 21. That experience, I think I was 22 when that happened. And that's when I was reading the books. That's when I was trying to learn more. That's when I had a genuine yearning and a desire to know more in that way. Yeah, beautiful.

I love that you experienced that right at that time frame. And so this is a cool way to deepen that question of when would it be appropriate to have this conversation or connection with a young person? So when they're 21 or 22 or 23 and when they start seeking, often this spiritual kind of scholarship opens up. But the cool thing is because the person, is in that sentient soul, that feeling soul, period. You can listen to Eckhart Toll with the sentient soul, not with the intellectual soul. And this is the whole point of what the understanding of Christ is, is we can speak not about Christ in that instance.

We can speak from Christ because Christ is a deep mood. It's an atmosphere. It's a feeling. Anyone who was exposed to that presence and still is. is today understands that. It's transformative as a result. Understanding and knowing something often can take us away and out of the game. This fully immerses us. And so when you're taking in that kind of so-called information from Eckhart-Tolay, what you're doing is you're being organized by that information spiritually and spatially. If you just grab it with intellect and strangle it,

you know it, so-called, but you have no wisdom around it. And there's a black and white difference between knowledge and wisdom. And a lot of what I see in this kind of podcast gluttony is there is so much information that people are downloading into their intellects, that then they think they are at a particular level. And then they go on some kind of a journey based on that thinking. But that thinking is an intellectual thinking. It's not a thinking that's been embodied and lived and stabilized. The intellect is not capable of stabilizing anything.

It's an intellectual glutton. It just grabs more and more. It's an addict. Intelligence is always in balance because the body and the heart are involved in being sorted by that information. So all of the scholars, all of those who so-called brought criminals, Christianity to the world brought an intellectualized Christianity that has nothing to do with the Christ. The individuals that have been living and loving in that mood, that atmosphere for the last 2,000 years, who have been deeply profoundly affected by it and who it's available to them right now,

their encounters with other people is what has spread Christianity. I like that. That resonates. The true esoteric, the true essence of that being. And it's so funny to call it Christian because that being itself was also Zarathustrin, was also Buddha, the best of all of those spiritual paths through the highest spiritual teachers of those streams in the Hebrews as well. So this whole notion of like this somehow is somehow separate or different Christianity, this being, this being was an amalgamation. the different bodies of the Christ had to be from the highest and best of all the different cultures that humanity had to bring through the eons, through the hundreds of years before that being came in.

Common sense would have to say that. It's like on earth all the highest and the best that all of you have to bring, let's put it all together. Because then it'll be the best showing we have to invite this visitor from elsewhere. Yeah. Nothing else makes sense. Yeah. One culture would never have enough of the power of what humanity has to bring to open a space to have that, that incredible presence come through. That makes total sense.

We're not, I mean, I don't have anything after this, so we can, we can keep going unless you have a heart out. I would love to at least get some pieces of practical stuff, you know, either the seven stages of Christian initiation or talk about. the where did I put it the six Steiner meditations to protect us from ourselves

and beyond something from a practice you don't have to list them all I'd rather if you could I'd give you one of each or yeah

one of each or just like just unpack one of those things in a way where it's like here's a take home practice we get to chew on and play with until the next time

you come on the podcast okay awesome all right well let's let's just look at um hmm I mean, the highest aspect of the sevenfold initiation would obviously be the resurrection, the resurrection body, which we've already dealt with, the phantom body.

But let's deal with the phantom body at the lowest and most practical level then, which is stage one of Christian initiation, the washing of the feet. What does that actually mean? It means that the highest part is honoring the so-called lowest part. So when you say, God, why would you be walking around washing all of our feet? We should be washing your feet. And the point is, I stand on all of your shoulders. You guys have done all the work here on this planet to get to the point where I can come through

and have this experience myself and provide this experience as a way showing for all of you. and so the washing of the feet, we just talked earlier about the plants, for example. We'd be nowhere with that. We wouldn't be here in the first place. The whole idea of protein synthesis through photosynthesis didn't exist until plants were on the planet and gave us enough protein to sustain these bodies. So we owe our very existence to these beautiful plants that are next to us right now. And you wouldn't be able to take that breath that you're breathing without them.

either. And so that's a washing of the feet experience to turn to these plants and to say to them, just because you're quiet and you don't move physically, walk around and you don't have a voice, doesn't mean that you don't have a voice and doesn't mean that you're not doing anything. What you're doing provides me my very existence. And from another perspective of the mineral kingdom, for example, you mentioned before the podcast going out into nature and not just some kind of stupid biohack of like, how do I do it while I sit in my armchair at home. We go actually into the world and we recognize that's just as sacred an act as doing the dishes as anything else that we would do. And all of those beings that overlight the mineral kingdom. And by the way,

those are some of the highest beings who overlight the mineral kingdom. The beautiful crystal that you have behind you, for example, grows like the plant. It grows with even great. purity than the plant. There's less impulse in a crystal, more regularity, more stability. It's irrefragibly itself, and it won't splinter. So the power that's in that, and yet there's no even impulse or urge as there is in a plant to grow. So there's a higher degree of purity of essence, of presence in a crystal. And yet it's growing when it's connected. So turning to that crystal and understanding its capacity as a magnifier, as an amplifier, and its level of purity. And that, as you have said earlier about the beautiful woman or whoever it is, whatever it is we see outside of ourselves,

the washing of the feet is to feel, not just to turn and sort of say something to this crystal, but to feel this sense of reverence and to invite that level of remembrance of pure. of growth in ourself. In other words, how can I grow in a way that doesn't force me to eat this plant, for example? You feel that? The crystal is a response to that. That's the washing of the feet because we could just say, well, it's just dirt, right? It's just these are just rocks.

And to a lot of people, they are. But they're overlighted by beings that we don't even have the capacity to connect with right now because our intelligence isn't even at that level. And that being is right now behind you and ready to communicate with you if you undertake that washing of the feet exercise. It would be the same thing with the animals that are outside and around you.

The washing of the feet says, I have an animal soul. And in a lot of ways, when I've been dumb in my life, I've seen you as lesser than because you walk around on all fours and you stink and you make weird noises and you don't speak and you don't have self-consciousness, so therefore you're lesser than I am. And yet there's a consciousness that overlights that animal that what it does is perfect in the world.

It can't not be. So its animal soul has been perfected. We have that animal soul and we've added self-consciousness choice to it. So we're the ones who are distorted. So the washing of the feed is to turn back toward that animal realm and to deeply commune with an animal in the purity of its instinct, in the perfection of its instinct, and to honor that in ourselves.

And then as we look back at maybe the three kingdoms that we just looked at, to recognize we have all of the plant kingdom within us, we have all of the mineral kingdom within us in miniature, flowing through our body, right? now. We have the whole symphony of the animal world within us. We have the capacity to choose their specialization is our generalization as a human being. Wow. If you're not awed by that, you're not paying attention. And then to look at our fellow humans as Christ did, as a fellow human, and to realize I'd be nowhere without you guys. Like what would I do on this planet

without the human race right now. I could do a lot of loving and communing with the animals and the plants and the crystals and have a great day. But the opportunity to grow myself as the Christ being is dependent upon you. I can't do any of this in isolation, and that's the washing of the feet. That's powerful. We have an event this weekend, which is too, obviously, this will come out long, or maybe not long after, but it'll be after this weekend.

called All My Relations, you know, which is the loose translation from the Lakota to Aho, Matakwiyo Yassan, or Matakwiasim, as they say in the West, the white version. Yes. You're usually they just say Aho. Right. Well, that's funny because so many people get that in the spiritual community. People assume it's just like, like, here he, you agree. Exactly right. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, sounds a little nicer.

He said something great. Aho at the end of it, right? And it's like, I don't know, that's just the beginning of something much, much deeper. But, you know, all my relations, all my relatives, right? You think about that when people would spin, of course, you can get, you know, the spiritual jargon, especially in this nick of the woods, is comical. But from the Lakota, that understanding is exactly what you're talking about, the connection to the minerals, the connection to the land, the connection to the wind, the connection of the

mountains, the connection of the plants. And when I think, you know, ancestors, right, I don't have a deep, being a Euro mutt American, you know, I don't have a deep understanding of ancestors for me personally. Many of us are uprooted. Yeah. You know, and I think that's kind of a hard thing for me to connect to. But I can connect to the plants. I can connect to the soil.

I can connect to the animals, especially on this land. You know, when we pray every night for dinner, we thank, every night before bed. We thank all being seen and unseen that contribute to this land before, during, and after us, right? It's, you know, just this 118 acres, right? It's such a, all the work that's gone in to make this place what it is, as vibrant as it is, as fertile as it is. And I have a deep reverence for that. And I have a lot of gratitude for ayahuasca allowing me to communicate with plants.

Yes. So I could have that visceral experience for myself. And I was walking back from a outhouse and a tree whispered in my ear, feed me. And I just turned astonished. Yeah. What the fuck? And I see this tree and immediately. fall to my knees and boom,

La Perga, just dump, you know, all my contents out on that tree. And I was like shaking there on my hands and knees like, did you just like, what? You know, just getting like the understanding. Like, of course, I needed you to bring me the medicine, right? Like, I can't pour ayahuasca on a tree. It's not going to be effective. But if it's been in my stomach for a while, now the tree can partake. You know, it's just mind blowing.

And that's one of many. but even watching plants communicate with each other, you know, when that visual field opens up with the third eye, you can see this shit happening in real time, from the ground underneath you to the air above you. All that communication taking place, all that harmony. You can rabbit hole that stuff too. I think The Secret Life of Plants was a phenomenal book.

They've got all kinds of technology now where you can hook up little electrodes to plants and I was telling my son that. You know, one of the experiments, and I don't want to digress too far, but one of the experiments they did was they hooked them up to these machines, kind of like a polygraph so they could see what was going on with them. And if a human thought, if it visualized burning that tree or cutting it down or that plant harming it in any way, it would fade.

The plant would have a reaction immediately as the thought, the same time as the thought. And it was like, they have an intelligence that's beyond ours in some ways, right? It is. I have to respect that because I can't tell what you're thinking right now. Yeah. You could be thinking, I'm going to beat this guy's ass at the end. into the podcast and I'd have no idea. Right.

Be like, yay, Christ, yay, plants. You know, like there's just, but to see that that's scientifically, for lack of a better term, proven to us is really cool. And then perhaps more important, you can't experience that. And I think, you know, one of the big reasons why I've wanted you to come on and unpack more on Christ and Steiner and get into these practical aspects is because I felt more and more called, you know, uh, in my 40s to want to learn these slow progression.

up the mountain and to have, you know, with now with some degree of skill, you know, maybe not a black belt, but a blue belt or a purple belt in meditation. Yeah. And to feel the reward and benefits of the, of that experience.

As often as I can have it, it's a big deal. You know, like it's a real practice for me now. And it's kind of like I want to beat the drum on that. Like, hey, all these weirdos talking meditation, they're on to something.

Yeah. And you're going to suck at it, but you've got to practice. You've got to have somebody that can teach you the way and then go, go, go. because it works, right? And so for anybody like Steiner, I used to scoff when Steiner would say, you know,

Paul asked the Paul. Paul's like, oh, Steiner was, you know, he was against any kind of plants or psychedelics. And I was, did he ever try him? He was like, well, what the hell did it? Yeah, exactly. You know, if he didn't need him, he just had it in him the whole time. Of course you could say, do it the hard way. This guy was coming in on a half a hit at DMT and he was fine with it, you know, like

permanently. Yeah, what Paul might not know is that Steiner had a spiritual teacher who was a sacred or biologist who talked with the plants and he had it that was one of his first teachers Phyllis Gagutsky and so you didn't have that person yeah and he spent a lot of time with this individual and so he got what he needed from the plant realm he just he didn't have to ingest it but he assimilated it through thought and the thought and the plant are of the same essence they both ride on the etheric the etheric is what grows the plant. The aetheric realm is the life realm. That's that's the realm of plants.

The etheric realm is also the gateway through the pineal gland to consciousness, to higher consciousness, to intelligent infinity, to walking the universe with unfettered tread. It's the same thing. That's why plants, they can't be out of that loop, that thought loop. They are that thought loop, and they are thought by a being that has that capacity to the etheric, which again would be another wonderful podcast. Dude, this has been fantastic. I love every minute of my time with you, brother. I'm so stoked.

Likewise. Once again, you've got a really cool thing coming up with our brother, Jared Picard. I do. Talk about that. I'm going to be a part of this as a guest coach, along with Gabby Reese and a lot of other awesome people who I'm huge fans of. Evan's going to be there, Evan Knighton. And so just so many cool.

Evan Britain. Britain, there we go. Mix and match right there. That's right. tell me, you know, give the listeners what this is all about. And then we'll link to this in the show notes. It'll be the first thing you see when you go down on the show notes. Yeah.

It will be, you know, what you guys have in store for people coming up. Well, all that I've been talking to you about today and the last podcast is really based on the work that we do in this being human. The way that it started was that Jared reached out to me and he said, hey, man, I just, I have loved our connection together when you lived here in Texas and taught my. daughter and I'd love to do something with you online you know what what could that look like and so what what came out really was you know I'll try to answer your last question as a part of this these six exercises that we focus on for for this being human journey for 12 weeks is a kind of what's called a a prophylaxis that's not a term Steiner would use but it's a it's a it's like a nerve myelination. Nerves are the most spiritual thing in the body because intuition flows through nerves

in a lightning understanding of, oh, it's an aha moment, which is completely transformative for the soul. Stiner walks us through the process of how to do that completely safely and any other spiritual practices that we have are we are protected. We only receive the positive effects. of those spiritual exercises because the power of thinking that we develop as we move through these exercises is what provides that protective factor. So you're able to explore within the limits of your capacity for extending your thought into what's called heart thinking or living thinking or pure thinking. It's, again, what we've been talking about, it's intelligence, not just intellect. So it's the wisdom of the heart as well as of the head. And Steiner figured out

through amalgamating all of these different ancient spiritual traditions what the highest human capacity is in terms of thinking. And these exercises then move us through this possibility. And so we do very specific exercises that I've developed because I was a gym teacher. and so I took Steiner's work from the time I was 20 I started looking at his work and I my first interest was how do I make this practical? How do I turn this into exercises? Because a lot of people, even the Waldorf teachers were saying to me, I can't read Steiner and I'm a Waldorf teacher like I fall asleep they tell me like it doesn't matter what time of day it is and I understand and so I recognize that if we make this into something practical

and orchestrate a series of exercises. Some are visualizations, but a lot of them are, I do a physical, at least a physical embodied exercise for each of these things, so that you have, again, a lived experience, and there's always a feeling element associated with it. And now you have a real sense of something. You're not just knowing it intellectually,

which there's so much that goes unused that we have in our intellect. Statistically 90% of it goes. was unused. But once we start to feel our way into it, then half of it is used. And when we embody it and actually develop practices out of it, 90% of it is being used now and only 10% is not. And so this is a very practical drop-in. And all of the participants, the whole point is for them to share the fruits of their experiences, to ask questions, not just of me, but of other group members about what their experiences have been of these exercises in order to deepen the exercises. And on the other end of this, people's lives are incredibly transformed. And Jared and I are, we're like two peas in a pod because

what he does is he, a lot of this stuff is new to him. And he's such a seeker that he just pulls stuff out of me, left, right and center. And he's like, this is like drinking from a fire hose, but I love it. And so we've spent hundreds of of hours, literally having him ask me questions and having me, kind of like this podcast, except just imagine that times lots of hours. Jared says maybe even thousands of hours. He's right because he's such an engaged seeker in it. And it happens not just before the course, which is how we formed the course, but during the course he still has that new mind, that sort of tabularaza where he's like beginner's mind.

I don't know anything about this. And he's unabashed, right, unapologetic about asking questions. And it gets the group fired up because whatever he's asking about, they get so into. And we end up coming on the sort of show, if you will, right, beforehand for a pre-show for a half hour and then after for an hour. So we've ended up stretching in both directions and just the people who want to be there. before and or after, if they want to seek more deeply, there's opportunity for them to do that. So it's probably the finest thing I've ever done in my life to offer all the things that we're talking about.

What are the steps that you need to do in order to keep yourself safe and explore the universe? That's phenomenal, brother. I'm stoked and I'm grateful I get to be a part of it. I'm great to have you. I'm looking forward to it. One of the start dates for this and what's named the website real quick? It's in February and it's Be Here Farm and Nature. And yeah, Jared Picard is the one who holds that website.

And so you can just chat with him if that's something that resonates with you. We'll have it linked in there and show notes to click. And I hope to see you guys in February. And hopefully we get to podcast again beforehand. I'd love that. Because it's been awesome having you here. And I want to keep the ball rolling. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Love to you, brother. Thank you. Big love.