Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #462 Dr Andy Wakefield - Autism, vax, film making, and his new novel

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

We welcome the return of the great Dr Andrew Wakefield to the KKP. He recently wrote his first novel which is launching right now! We discuss his book, documentaries he's made like Vaxxed and Protocol 7, as much more.  Book Website-  www.TheBequest.Co Follow his IG @andrewjwakefield    Get the best microdosing products on the planet from www.BrainSupreme.co/kkp and remember to use code "KKP" for 15% off everything in the store! Up your brains hardware and software now! MAAC Stack Join my new community The Kingdom Within on Skool right here for a free 1 week trial!  https://www.skool.com/the-kingdom-within-5541/about

Welcome back to today's podcast. We have the return of Dr. Andy Wakefield. Andy Wakefield is a bucket list of mine. He's somebody that I have followed for over 10 years. He was a gastrointestinologist who figured out that vaccines, there was some relationship between vaccines and autism. And he was the first guy to experience cancel culture long before cancel culture was even a thing.

Had his name and his career drugs for the mud. And what do we see now? study after study, verifying everything that Andy Wakefield put his career on the line for was correct. And it is phenomenal to build a podcast with somebody who has such a wealth of knowledge in not only vaccines and things of that nature, gut health, but just so much more than that. He's a documentary filmmaker. He's done movies like Vax and so many others that are absolutely incredible exposés of what actually goes down behind closed doors when there's an injury. And now he's an author. He's got a brand new book coming out called Bequest.

We're doing a launch party. If you're listening to this, today is Thursday, the day it comes out. If you're listening to this today, tomorrow they're doing a launch party on Instagram. We'll link to his, follow him and we'll link to him in the show notes. You can check out the launch party. Please buy this book. Please support them. It is incredible.

We break down the synopsis and kind of the backstory of it during this podcast. And it's wild. It sounds like such an adventure. And also something that really has a point to it. And it's just beautifully, beautifully done. So I'm so excited to get to share this with everybody. If you're like me and you like Audible, wait a couple of weeks. They're going to launch on Audible as well.

But buy a copy. Help this guy get on the New York Times bestseller list on the Amazon bestseller. If you have followed me for years and appreciated my stance on health and wellness and my stance against Big Pharma. In large part, I must give credit to Andy Wakefield, him, Del Big Tree, guys like Aaron Siri, who've been on the front lines figuring this stuff out and risking everything to be able to tell us the truth. I have so much respect and so much love for Annie Wakefield. And as I mentioned, any time he wants, he can come on this podcast. So he's just an awesome guy to chat with and has so much knowledge.

And I just love the way he shares his heart and is able to deliver beautiful stories, which is what this book's all about. All right, guys, thanks for tuning in. Remember to peep the show notes, support our sponsor, Brain Supreme, and check out my new community on School of the Kingdom Within. All right, without further ado, Dr. Andy Wakefield. Ready to rock and roll.

Round two, Dr. Andy Wakefield. Welcome back to the house, the farm, to the podcast. It's great to be here again. This is awesome. So I've been really excited. I've actually been working with your son, Sam, which is just like a,

it's one of the funny ways in which, like, you just, to me, it's, it's funny to see the way God weaves us together. You know, I know that's not everyone's belief, but it's like there, you know, other people look at it as like, it's a small world, you know, because I've followed you for over a decade,

now. And, you know, as I mentioned on our first podcast, the work you put forth at, you know, at the cost of your career was the work that helped us make the decision to not vaccinate our kids. And we have an 11-year-old boy and about to be six-year-old girl who are in perfect health. I've never needed a pharmaceutical. And, you know, last time had a check up, I think was Bears' eight-week visit. And she told me, a pediatrician said, to avoid sunlight. And I just laughed. I was like, what did indigenous people do here?

What do we do? What do people do on the planet before sunscreen? Wow. Hang out indoors. Like I just, I was in disbelief the recommendations. But anyhow, you know,

our kids are phenomenal. And, you know, in large part, that is due to the overall health journey and fallen people like Paul Check. But your work has been pushed around from all kinds of used by and partnered with.

And, And really lifted by so many people, people we'd recognize like Bobby Kennedy and children's health defense and many other people, Del Big Tree, Aaron Siri's been on the podcast. So I just want to say like it is truly an honor to have you here. And it's a really, it's a big deal to me, you know, seeing what it looks like when you go down traditional routes, what it potentially can look like. And then having the gift of, you know, my kids fully present, fully awake, fully aware, fully here. it's a you know there's no way to quantify that so thank you well you're very kind it's been a fascinating journey and all i asked for what 30 years ago 31 years ago was further research to look into this based upon the parent's story this is what happened to my child and the parents were

right and the latest i mean they're just to sort of capture it all in a nutshell the latest paper that came out that reviewed all the science that is purported to look at the link between or lack of a link between vaccines and autism came to the conclusion overwhelmingly that vaccines were the most important, modifiable risk factor for autism spectrum disorder. And that's it. And that's the science that's come from people like Peter McCullough, the most published cardiologist in the history of the planet. And so that science has now been done, and it's confirmed that vaccines are causally associated with autism.

Well, that's often the way when, you know, in pioneering, you often don't see the benefits in your own career. That's fine. It doesn't matter. We've moved on. We're a long way further on than that. And it's just it's just sad that it's taken so long. So many kids have been lost along the way. And now something needs to be done about it.

And fortunately, Bobby Kennedy is in the White House and he's there to do something about it. Yeah. I really hope he's able to. We've been rooting for Bobby for years. And we're a big part of, you know, spreading the word around getting people to see, hey, you know, you've written as it. Much like yourself, you know, you go online or you look at the news, is anything mainstream. You're like, this guy's a quack. He says X, Y, and Z.

You know, and you're looking to it. You're like, no, this guy actually bang on the money, spot on. It has been for a very long time, has all the data, all the science to verify. You know, he loved the book that he did or Children's Health Defense did with him and Brian Hooker, PhD, Vax on Vax. You know, where they just look at, you know, let's look at the data on fully vaccinated versus fully unvaccinated and see kind of how, you know, these scores go across in every possible field.

And to your point, though, I think it's a lot hard. harder, I would like to see, you know, nobody in mainstream is going to be like, hey, actually, we were wrong. Here's the new science. You know, it's like I feel like now we're seeing the digging our heels in the sand. And it's going to take longer for people to, unless they want to know the truth, you know, and then it's always been available this entire time. But if they're not willing to look at it, they're still super trustworthy of the, you know,

the main power structures for information, it's going to take a long time or at least longer than I want it to to kind of reveal the truth and reverse that way of thinking. I mean, I podcast were there in Siri, and he has a phenomenal book, which you know of. And I was so thrilled to see him on Joe Rogans. I was like, dude, bank this guy mainstream, you know, like because he's just doing the work, much like yourself for a long time. And the date is here. And he has such a beautiful way of relaying that. Like, it's a almost religious belief system. you know but but you post something on that's that's data driven and backed by science and new science right and you still get people digging their heels in the sand and saying well what's going to happen

to grandma then or you're going to be responsible for the next measles outbreak or any of these things and it's just you know i scratch my head you can't you can't you can't get everybody to jump to the level of awareness you want to well they've run out of arguments haven't they you know when they have to resort to your grandmother then they've run out of arguments and the truth has emerged. And COVID was so important in throwing this into sharp relief. Look at where we are with COVID now. A few years ago, it was, you know, was natural origin and, you know, the debate was going on now, the expose on Tony Fauci and everything that actually went on. People will never trust them again, quite rightly. And they are entirely responsible for this.

It's not a matter of you and I having this irresponsible conversation about vaccine safety. They were the ones who were responsible. The public will never trust them again. And they have really condemned public trust in public health policy, the policy makers, to the funeral pyre. And so we now need to reconstruct that. We need to redevelop that. We need to bring back that public confidence in those who've bought them the truth. Yeah.

I think Bobby's idea on actually looking at, like, let's have this, let's do the science that wasn't done. Let's do the science that was never done before. And, you know, there's something that really cracked me up was talking with Bill Bigtree and Aaron Siri about this, how Aaron had put in the FOIA for, you know, one of the things that when this vaccine injury act went through, if I don't know if it's labeled that, but, you know, basically when they got taken, all liability was taken off from the manufacturer in the late 80s. one of the requirements was that every two years they would meet with Congress and just do a review. Like, hey, this is what we're seeing. These are what the doctors are saying. These are some of the injuries that may be linked, maybe not. We don't know yet.

You know, and just have an honest open discussion about it. And so Aaron had asked for the minutes of these meetings that we're supposed to go on since the late 80s. And not, they wouldn't give it to him, you know, and he's like, what meeting? He goes, give me the damn meeting minutes, you know? And finally it goes to a judge and the judge is like, give them the minutes. Like, well, we can't. He's like, why can't you give them the minutes? Well, we haven't had a meeting.

Since the late 80s, they were supposed to have a meeting every two years. They haven't had one meeting to go over safety. That's shit. No one hears, you know? Like, everyone just assumes it must be safe. They must have done rigorous trials. They would never let this pass. Really?

You know, the first. one given the hepatitis B vaccine is like they had five days of testing on a population of 300. Who are not even the right age. Right. No control. No control. And only for five days, you wouldn't think to look back after five days to see how this is, how they respond at six months, one year, 10 years.

Like that's insane. But people don't understand that. You know, so I really appreciate, you know, people that have put their neck on the line like yourself, like Aaron and so many others that that bring this information forward, where if someone wants to argue on like, well, what about intravenous, you know, drug use? Or what about it? What about that? What about safety? You have no idea what this is going to do. And that was my whole point during COVID. I was like, you guys are about to experiment with something. I don't care what data they say they have on it. Right. And they were lying through their teeth the entire time on how efficacious it was.

you know, there's entire memes of Fauci saying it's 100% effective. It's 90% effective. You know, 10, a week later, it's 80% effective all the way down to, you know, like 20. There's no reason to do it. It's not effective. It's not effective, you know? Comical. Well, the truth, the truth, there's one of my favorite memes from pro wrestling is macho man,

Randy Savage, and he says, the cream rises to the top. And he pulls out a little coffee creamer, you know, he does a little 360. Truth is like the cream. You know, it rises to the top. You can't hold it down. You can hold it down for a little while, but not long long. Well, I know people like you were getting the truth out there, so thank you. Yeah, but it's my pleasure.

It's a, there's no, I wouldn't be satisfied with my life if I chose differently, you know, specifically during COVID. I remember having that deep, hard look with my wife and I talked to J.P. Sears, a good friend. And I was like, JP, you know, you make all your money from your online presence. You know, like he's a comedian, does stand up, that kind of stuff. And you could argue that's more of his career path than his content, but he's content producer, you know, like, and he's got millions of followers.

What happens if they shut you down? What happens if they take all that away? You know, we built sandcastles in the back of somebody else's backyard was an analogy that he'd used. And he's like, you know, I was nervous about that. But what I found was that there was more people, even though a lot of people left in denial, there was more people that wanted to know the truth that came on board. And that was really powerful and just the total green light.

So I thank him for that permission slip to say, yes. All right, let's tell the truth. And here we are today. And it's not perfect, but I think it's better that we have at least had people spoken about. Not all the people that were blasted. You know, the guys like Dr. Kirk Parsley, who was a Navy SEAL and a medical doctor for the Navy SEALs, who just posted a picture of what the CDC had said on Twitter and had his Twitter account deleted. because he didn't even make a comment.

He didn't even say anything on it. He literally just took something from the CDC's website, snapshot it and put it up there, which was counter to the narrative. Oh, listen, and in England, they'd put you in prison for this. Yeah, crazy.

At least we've got the First Amendment here. You can say, they'll take you down. They shouldn't, but they do. But in England, you're off to the pokey. It's crazy. Yeah, and then with what happened in Canada, I mean, that's the other thing with England, Canada and Australia,

that's the part of a father where I'm just like, my butt holes puckered. Let me just put it that way. There's not a polite way to put it, but I've been on the edge of my seat for six years realizing that like these countries are all first world countries. These are all Western nations. And it seems to me that the only difference is that they don't have guns. That's the only difference, right? We should, we all have very similar laws. We have different constitutions maybe. But we're Commonwealth countries. We're first world nations. And to see what happened with the truckers and everything else and all the doctors there, you know, and public people who got. got thrown in jail for just having an opinion on things. It's kept me on the edge of my seat. Let's put it that way. Well, you were here today. We covered a lot of this in our last podcast. I'll link to it in the show notes.

People want to deep dive that in your work in the history of your work. You were telling me about, you know, that you've, obviously you've been a director and a filmmaker for many years and you've done incredibly well at that. You've brought us documentaries like Vax and much more than that. But Vax was one of the huge things that, like, really shifted my wife and I because there was a visual attached to this information we were learning. You know, and the visual imprint of scenes in that film, same with pandemic indoctrination. There's just things you can't unsee or not witness, especially with regards to children being harmed that are, they're forever imprinted.

And I want that there, you know? It's an ugly imprint, but I want it there because it's the truth, right? And, you know, now you've shifted gears, you've been authoring and you have a book that's about to, that's rolling out. right now, correct? It's coming out on Friday this week. Oh, let's go. That's awesome. That's great to hear. Well, let's discuss that. Tell me what was your inspiration to write, and it's fiction, correct? It's a fictional book. Okay. And it's an interesting story. I'll take you back. I was around 2011. I was giving a lecture at an autism conference somewhere in America. And a woman who'd organized the conference, helped organise the conference.

She had a single, affected son, teenager, profoundly injured, nonverbal and really a terrible handful. She was estranged from her husband. And she took me out for dinner that night after the conference. And over dinner, she asked me if I would father a child for her. Now, your listeners may think, what a very strange thing to be talking about on Kyle Kingsbury show. But her motives were most sincere. She wasn't interested in a night of passion with Andy Wakefield. What she wanted was to conceive.

She wanted to have a healthy child, in this case unvaccinated, who would grow up and look after her child when she became infirm or died, when she was no longer there. And this is a question that keeps millions of parents awake at night across this country around the world, what happens when I die? What happens when I'm no longer there for my vulnerable child? They're going to fall upon the mercy of a world that doesn't understand them, has no provision for them, and certainly doesn't love them, and they're going to die on the streets. And so it was profoundly moving. And I said to her at the time, I said, you know, this would make an extraordinary

screenplay. I'm going to write it. And so I did. I wrote the screenplay in 2012. And you put these things on the shelf. You know, you think, the time for this will come and I'll read it in a year's time and make some changes and make it better. And then I got it off the shelf just recently. I thought it's time to make this movie. And Hollywood's in a terrible state and trying to raise money to make movies is difficult and it was going to be substantially, you know, it was going to be quite a lot of money. And then my assistant, my executive assistant, said to me, you need to write this as a book. And I thought, damn, I know she's right. I'm going to have to do that. Get some attention for it. It's much cheaper to write a book, get a book out there, and someone say, wow,

this would make a great film and make the movie. So my aim is to make the movie. But because it's a wonderful way of communicating with a lot of people about a really important issue at one time. And so I sat down and I wrote the book and it comes out on Friday. It's called the bequest. It's about the bequest that the mother made to her son. And I wanted to do two things with this book. I wanted to get away from the issue of causation. I wanted to focus specifically on the issue of when I'm no longer here for my child. It's something that really troubles me and I've seen suicides,

I've seen attempted suicides. I've seen such tragedy over the years with parents who are so desperate that they can no longer cope, they can no longer deal with this, they can't live any longer with the knowledge that their child. And they've taken their own lives as well as trying to take them,

or taking their child's life. So it was something that vexed me for a long time, something I felt I needed to do something about. So I took it away from the issue of causation. I also wanted to set it in one of the most hostile environments imaginable. And so it's a Western, 1867, on the Yukon Trail, on the way to Laramie, and it's brutal. And it's, you know, it's Native American Indian attacks.

It's disease, it's famine, it's freezing cold, it's hostility, it's the, it's about a mother and her child. And it's about the mother's extraordinary love for her child and the things she will do and the extent she's prepared to go to protect her child. When everything around her, everything is against her. And in the end, it's a happy story. I won't spoil the ending, but in the end, it has a, it has a, it has, it has. has a very important message. And it comes out as, hey, Friday, a launch party, 10 o'clock on Instagram, 10 o'clock Central,

Andrew J. Wakefield, Instagram, Andrew J. Wakefield. Please come and join us. I'll answer questions, and if I can. And, yeah, can't wait to get it out there. All right, guys, quick break to tell you about brainsopreme.com. Brain Supreme is the very best mushroom company. ever. If you've read about microdosing or heard about it on this podcast, there is no better route than trying brain supreme. It is absolutely incredible. They have a series of products

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When I grew up, I had really no idea. I mean, I don't know when did it come to me, maybe 12 or 13 years old, I started hearing the word autistic. Before that, like, in kindergarten, there was still like a special kids class at the regular elementary school. And that was kind of like a mishmash of kids with all sorts of potential ailments, you know. And I think then we would still call it mental retardation, mentally handicapped, some other, you know, something that was preventing them from learning with the rest of their classmates.

You know, now you'd hear 40 different terms, dyslexic and, you know, whatever, ADHD, that kind of thing. And but still no autism. And then, you know, as I got a little older, one of my best friends growing up who I met, I think in seventh grade in junior high. His dad was a smart guy. And he had worked his second son. So his oldest son was one of my best friends, his youngest son at autism.

And he worked with the YMCA and he was constantly around kids. He was a great guy. He's still a great guy. And also worked a lot with autistic kids. And so knowing that we were kind of the cool kids, the jocks, anytime we'd have a sleepover at my, buddy's place, he would say, hey, for three hours of the sleepover, we're going to have over all of all of your little brother's friends. And the point behind this is so that you guys get

to see all these guys on a wide spectrum of behavior, right? And you can, you can know to look out for them. These guys are not to be picked on, you know, if there's any issues, you know, at school, look out for these guys, you know. And they really, they're really stuck with me in a major way. because it's it's a visceral when a connection like that is made, you know. And I could see, like they talk about the savant part of it. You know, I could see so much of that in his little brother. He loved video games, you know, and he was just a master, you know, seeing like a little, there's no little kid that could beat me in video games except him.

You know, like, you play him out. I was like, damn, dude, how were you doing that? And he's just in the zone smoking us, you know, on Nintendo and Super Nintendo. But I think that was a really, really powerful piece for me growing up. up. And I remember as I grew older and started making our own decisions on how we were going to, you know, medicalize or not medicalize our kids. I remember having a conversation with, you know, my best friend's father about it. And, uh, and I talked about your work. And it was funny because he's, oh, you know, you know, that all that, without all that was debunked. And I said,

really. Because I mean, there's kind of a big body of evidence that shows that it wasn't, that it was just kind of swept under the rug. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's genetic. And I was like, okay because I mean and I obviously you've heard this more than anybody like that is the argument and you hear that from you hear that about everything now in Western medicine and you know I just had a DNA expert on cash con who did the he has created something called the DNA company he lives in Toronto he's worked at the Waterloo Sports Science Institute he's a brilliant guy young guy and develop tech to like break down how DNA actually works in the body and that you're not you know there's no genetic determinism, right? Like all this stuff is on-off switches, the epigenetic on-off switches determine

everything from a lifestyle standpoint. I have the DNA to be obese and have type 2 diabetes. And it's very high likelihood. When I remember looking at that and I was just like, that can't be right. And then I just thought like, oh shit. And I thought of all, you know, everyone other than my immediate family, but all my relatives. And I was like, yeah, that's probably right. That's probably very spot on. And but to my own point, but to my own point, you know like because of the way I live like I'm never going to I'm never going to reach any one of those states right and you know common argument is is if this is always been around we're just better at diagnosing where are these people where are the old autistic people where are the 80 year old autistic people where were the autistic grandparents where were any of that just didn't we didn't have it right but I love that you you because there's probably more people as painful as it is to say I know there's a lot of people waking up and and and one of the arguments, one I think the most important arguments is the fact that parents know their child better than anyone does. So, like, you know the first time your child looks into your

eyes and recognizes you instead of just kind of staring, right? Because children just stare. And then one day they lock eyes with you and you're like, oh, shit, it's happening. You know, and it's a spiritual experience, in my opinion. You know every first thing they do. And you see that you just lock that in and you tell all your friends and your family like, oh, they did this today. they're standing on their own now and they walk around the curtain of the couch. Right. So you take them in for whatever. You bring them home and they're violently ill, feverish, not responsive, all those things.

And you're going to say that the parent can associate that with the very thing that just happened. That's insane to me. It's absolutely insane. But I love the fact that even though there's more people waking up and I would lean towards that as like, this is the truth. There's still a lot of people that believe it's just genetic. and those people still are raising autistic kids. And those are the people that,

doesn't matter what they believe, still run into the same issues as every other autistic parent. And so I love that you intelligently bridge the gap for everybody by taking away causation and moving into a time before, you know, any arguments are made on that. You know,

I think that's a really a clever and important thing to do to get more people to witness, you know, what is this story about than, you know, commonly, what we see now is political arguments. I mean, the politicization of COVID even was just comical. It's nothing to do with politics. Where are they trying to frame it in that way?

It's insane to me. Yeah, the issue of causation is crucial. I mean, genetics. It's a reasonable hypothesis that it has a genetic basis. Until you investigate that, you test the hypothesis, and billions of dollars have been put into doing that, and it's not genetic. You don't have a genetic epidemic and one in 12 boys in Northern Ireland now have autism and still rising.

And it's not just mild autism. It's not just we've expanded the spectrum. We've expanded the description. No, these are children with severe nonverbal autism. Okay. So the argument no longer holds up. It's testable hypothesis. It's been tested.

It doesn't apply. And now we see, and there's no such thing as a genetic epidemic and that's what we're seeing. And so the environment is so much more important. And when two things confronted me when I first got involved, two competing sets of arguments, the parents' observations, what they saw, what they believed, and the experts, will God save us from experts? COVID's taught us that.

Experts have led us astray. And the parents, over the 31 years, it's become absolutely clear to me that on every aspect of autism that came up, the parents were right, that it was not there from birth, that children did regress, that children could recover, that there was bowel disease. It went on and on and on, and every observation of the parents turned out to be correct. The experts were wrong.

So God save us from experts, and perhaps I should be saying that prayer a little more often. Well, walk us through some of the, you kind of give us a background here, you know, of what the challenges are and things like that. And I think it's funny because I was watching, you know, I go to the movies every now and then I probably need more date days with my wife than I, then we have. If I'm being perfectly honest there. But, you know, I was watching like the 10 movie trailers of the year kind of thing. And then I saw a bunch of TV shows that are coming out. It was funny to me, because of the success of Yellowstone,

everything has a Western twinge to it. You know, just like if they got guys on, on horses, it doesn't matter if they're, their modern day ATF with machine guns. They just want horses and open country, you know,

has to be like a part of the set and setting. And anyways, I feel like there's, there's a strong, there's a strong desire for that connection, I think amongst people, especially with how many people are moving towards cities and moving into this,

you know, modern life. And I think since COVID, we've had more, like the highest in history visits national parks. You know, Joel Salathan said, and since 2022, one and a half million people have started homesteading on at least an acre of land, right?

Like moving out of the country, is more of and more rural areas and just wanting to carve out a little space where they can grow their own food, have a couple animals and just slow down. And I think that's the right shift. It's the right counter towards, you know, the push from, you know, whatever you want to call it. And so, and I think about that, I think, like, this is, this is the perfect time for a book with that setting.

But dive in a little into a little bit of the story here, you know, talk us, tell us, about the mother and the child and some of the things that are going through. Well, it's interesting for us that you mentioned Taylor Sheridan's work, the Westerns. I mean, if anyone knows Taylor Sheridan, put me in touch, because I want him to read this book, and I want him to help make this movie, okay? So that's important. There are two other things. What you brought up, the autistic Savant, you know, the gifted child.

And that plays very much into this story. Years ago, when I first got involved, I knew nothing about autism. I was a gastroenterologist. And two things happened. First, I was in Northern California. By the side of a pool, there was a friend of mine and his son, who was profoundly autistic, nonverbal. and the son was walking by the pool. He was a young teenager.

And his dad said to him, would you like to go to Chucky Cheath? And he stopped. You know, sometimes men have to stop when they've been asked a question because they can't do two things at one day. And they're trying to, what was that? Yeah, okay.

And I saw, I just observed. I knew nothing about it. I observed him. He just stopped. He was thinking. And he was nonverbal. He didn't have, the fine motor skills verbally to respond to his father, except that he did. What he did is to go over,

take his father by the arm, lead him to the car. And that was his answer. Yes, I want to go to Chucky cheese. So not only had he understood his father's question, which people are saying, oh, they don't understand. They don't get it. Yes, they do. He not only understood that his father's question, he had circumvented the problem, the circuitry problem in his brain that wouldn't allow him to give a verbal response and found another way of giving him the answer. And that was an extraordinary insight. And then another one, another child in California, teenager, used to write the most extraordinary poetry. It was very unusual, humorous and completely, apparently out of character with this child who was ostensibly, to all the old world, He wasn't retarded at all.

Very idiosyncratic poetry. He wrote me a poem called Who's That Monkey on Your Back? And it was about the attack on me from the journalist from the Sunday Times in England, destroyed my career. It made my career in many ways, I should say. And he wrote this poem, and it was wonderful. And he did so using a letterboard. There were the letters in front of him, and he would type it.

it out and someone would write down what he was articulating using this letterboard. And in doing so, his assistant would hold his elbow because he had problems with coordination. I thought this is fascinating. This is absolutely fascinating. Everything I've been taught about these children, there's no retardation here. This child is gifted. It's just that his gift manifests in a way. that is non-verbal.

And so I went to a friend of mine who I considered to be open-minded and an expert on autism. And I said, I told him the story and I presented this child to him. And he was furious. He was furious. He got out and walked off. He said, this is an entire thing. It's a scam. Everybody's being misled.

He completely missed the point. He hadn't read what this child had written. and understood that this was him, this was this child. It required research into what had happened to me in England. Well, his assistant, the girl, charming as she was, had absolutely no interest in what had happened to me in England or my career or anything to do with it. She couldn't give two hoots.

And I was really disappointed. But that was my first insight into what are now called spellers, children who once you present, or young adults, where you present them with a way of communicating that doesn't involve fine motor coordination such a speech, that suddenly they can speak five languages, or they know algebra, they love calculus. The parents don't know anything about calculus, and they don't speak the languages this child suddenly speak. There are extraordinary gifts, and that comes into this story, that this child who's

been treated by the population of this town as being just a retard and to be put to one side, turns out to be, in many ways, the salvation. And the people who understand it are the Shoshone Indians. They understand this child and the Arapahou, who were, you know, camped on the outskirts of town. So it plays into that element of American history as well. So it was a fun story to write. That's super cool. Did you work with any indigenous elders in kind of coordinating, like, kind of the things that they would plot or be a part of the story?

Or did you just look at research as much as you could? I researched it. And then we started getting involved. When the film was sort of on the horizon, we started talking to people who might, we spoke to a great, Apache Indian who who's going to be part of that team that puts the film together

so there's a lot of work to do to understand that but I'm very keen to get involved yeah that's super cool I've had the blessing of working with you know my boxing coach was mixed mestizo Aztec and Mexican and

would bring us out to the Native American reservation for sweat lodges and things like that and bring Lakota elders in and so I kind of learn a mix mash of different cultural understandings, but that were still rooted in nature and spirit. And here now, you know, we built in an NEPA here on the land with Chase Iron Eyes from the Lakota nations up north and Widera from Ecuador down south.

And she had, she knows all the Lakota songs because of, you know, one of the chiefs going down and kind of spreading that knowledge through Central and South America. And I was like, that is awesome. That they have Sundance all the way. down in Ecuador, and it's in their own version. But it's like, that, that's, to me, that's incredible, you know, to think about that. I think, like, how do we preserve our lineage? Half the

people are saying, don't share it, keep it for us, or else it'll be demolished. And, you know, there's other people saying, like, no, we need to share this with as many people as we can, because if we don't, then it's going to get lost. Yeah. That's another reason I need to get in touch with Taylor Sheridan, because he's in touch with all these people. So, you know. Yeah. Very cool. Do you think that there's potential for more of these, like in a series, or do you think this is it pretty concretized as like just the one and done? It was intended as a standalone to deal with this specific issue. I think there's the potential for other related issues that come up in autism or

in injured children to be explored in film. Absolutely. Haven't thought about it yet, taking it one step at a time. I can't, I mean, I've had close friends, author books, and getting into witness that, you know, Jamie Wheel said it best because I've had a lot of people, oh, you should write about X, Y, and Z. Hearing Chris Ryan, who wrote Sex at Dawn and Civilized the Death, I love, both those are great books, Civilized the Death in particular. But, you know, you said, don't write the book that you know, write the book you want to know. And I was like, oh, man, I never thought of it that way. Like then you're going to investigate every little piece and you'll learn the story and the story will come through you.

It's not going to be something you think you've solved already. And I really liked that because then it opened up a whole world of potential there. But Jamie Wheel, you know, had written Stealing Fire and he had a co-author and that's because he's still a dad, you know. And then he waited until he was an empty nester to write Recapture the Rapture. And he said, I knew how much it was going to take from me to birth this thing. And I didn't want to do it while I was being, you know, full-time dad. And I was like, man, I respect the hell out of that. So, but that just gives me giddy thinking about, you know, what potentials lie ahead, you know, with that.

But I think there is, whether you've got kids in the house or not when you're a father, but you're also past the point of needing to change diapers and pack lunches and all that stuff. Fortunately, fortunately, I am. Yeah. The problem being being a writer, if you, and I love writing, is that you live in your head. It's a nightmare for all those around you. And if there were kids, you know, it would be. be a nightmare for them. And I think

one of the things that, I tend to do that, I get locked into something and I live it in my head and I'm thinking about it all the time. And that's not good for family life. And I think if I had one regret over the years, I have four wonderful children. They're all grown up now.

They're having children of their own. They're absolutely fantastic children, but I would have loved to have spent more time. Probably should have, almost certainly should have spent more time. But I So it was a little bit of self-indulgence But that's what writing does to you

It sucks you in and it holds you there Particularly when you're researching and you're researching And you discover new things And wow, that would make it great this and that So, you know All right, y'all, quick break to tell you about my brand new community The Kingdom Within. It is launched on school right now.

If you join, you get a free one-week trial. You'll have access to any videos we've recorded in the past. We call them days at school. So first day of school, second day of school, all this stuff is available. Like I said, we just launched. The community is small, which is absolutely great because if you join now, you will have all your questions answered. I mean, there's just no competition.

So the community is about body. It's about mind. It's about connection. It's about family, nature, psychedelics. Everything is on the table. And right now, I'm just walking people through some of the most important things, I think, in the key takeaways from the books that I've read and the people I've befriended and learned under guys like Paul Check, Mark Sisson, and so many others. And I've broken it down into very easy

to use practical steps on how to optimize the body. And with that, lay the foundations for a successful life, for better productivity, for better emotional intelligence with your kids, with your wife, with your girlfriend, for better connection, which is really what it's all about. And then how do I connect to myself? What does that internal relationship look like? How do I connect to nature? I get it. Not all you're going to have a farm. Most people listen to this don't. That's fine. How do I reconnect to nature? How do I reconnect to nature? How do I connect to nature? How I build out my eco field in my own little backyard? If I got an apartment, what are the plants that I bring in? How do I respect nature and make communion with it? And then how do I do that with God?

There are so many paths that lead us up to the mountain. And I've spent, you know, the last 20 years of my life, really researching, digesting, and breaking this down. So I am so excited to be able to share this with you guys. I love the back and forth. It's something I just don't get on the podcast. I don't get to hear from you guys and get to go back and forth with you and learn about what's going on in your lives. I do in the community on school. It's called The Kingdom Within. And you can go click on it in the show notes and it'll take you right to the about page. And like I said, we cover all the bases. So it's really hard to kind of say like, this is my niche. This is what we're doing. Optimization. All this other. Just join, join us for one of the

school days and see what it's like. I guarantee you it will change your life for the better. All right, guys, back to the podcast. Yeah, it seems like the, like the, it's, it is in the ultimate investment. I mean, men can't give birth unless you live in California. But, you know, there is something where, you know, like there is the energetic birthing process of writing, which, which, you know, as far as I've seen, like nothing even compares to that. It seems like such an undertaking. And even just the idea, you know, you coming from documentary film and loving that and that being the wheelhouse to like, now I'm going to need to write this. Like that must have been like a hard, oh, okay, I'm going to say yes to this. But man, you know, like you realize what

you're saying yes too and the sign up for that and knowing, you know, the end goal of getting this book made well and promoted well. And then also, you know, can we turn this into the film we wanted before? That's definitely a lot. I watched, we just finished watching back last night, the TV series, The Offer, about the Making of the Godfather. Well, I absolutely fabulous series. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And talk about the obsessional character, the nature of individuals required to see a film through from inception to the premiere is absolutely staying. It was beautifully put together. I really enjoyed it.

What channel was that on? It was on HBO. Okay. Very cool. I want to see that. They didn't touch on part three, right? Because that doesn't exist in my book. No, no, no.

It was just the first movie. Godfather 1 and 2 are all from the book, you know, the Godfather. And I think those are masterpieces. that not a lot of people say yes. I tell people about it. They hear about, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll do that. And then I'm like, oh, wow, three and a half hours. You know, like, it's like saying, telling somebody to sign up to watch Lord of the Rings.

Like, it's a commitment. You're going to have to be there for a while. But Godfather, to me, especially if you've ever appreciated guys like Robert De Niro or Al Pacino or any of the gangster movies that came later, like, you see how young they are in this movie and, like, what really put them on the map, you know? It's just perfect. even Brando, you know, he's the old guy in it, but he's young by comparison of many of the movies that he did later. And there, it's incredible, you know.

You're right. Brettel introduced all of these characters like Jack Nicholson and, and they were so much younger. And there was an argument, many, many arguments about whether they should be in it or not, because they're not well known, and they can't act anyway. And yes, they could. And they prove that time and time again afterwards. but it was the gut sensation, the knowledge, the innate knowledge that this is the guy for the job. I've got to have this guy.

You can't explain to anyone around you why you need this guy, but everything tells you I need this guy to play this role. Of course, it works out. Yeah, I like that understanding too. And it's funny to me who misses that. Like, I always laugh that Jim Carrey was turned down for Saturday Night Live. but you know the god what is his name tom he's he's a super good friends with my homie jade bryce Tom's something guy who did he did uh

Ace Ventura pet detective uh liar liar did a ton of Jim Carrey's movies but he was the first guy to put him on the map you know like Ace Ventura was like his first breakthrough role for and same with Tom as a director like that was the first time Tom I can't believe him's based on his last name but he did the documentary am, which is a fantastic look at like what is true happiness and how does spirituality come into play and where to success land in the grand scheme of, you know, your contentment with life. And it talks about moving into his second $30 million home in Beverly Hills.

And, you know, they finish unpacking the boxes and he's still not happy. And then he gets his third $30 million home after liar, liar. And they're loading up the last thing. And he's sitting on the double staircase, you know, like cathedral like. And he's like, oh, I'm still not happy. You know, it's just great. They're great films. But, you know, you're looking out like Jim Curry's career, like whether you like him or not,

like that dude is the definition of success. I love him. I think he's absolutely hilarious. Oh, I love him. My kids love him. It's interesting as you mention him. But when I came back from England after my career had been destroyed, I came back from the regulatory body, the general medical counsel when they removed my license.

First person to give me a call was Jim Carrey. Really? Yeah, he gave me a call. said, listen, you know, thank you for everything you've done and we get it. That's awesome. Yeah, I was super impressed that he and Jenny McCarthy spoke the way that they did on television, you know, for sure, at what could have been the cost of everything to them. I'm sure he paid a price.

I'm sure he did. Yeah. I got a chance to train with him at Gabby Reese and Lard Hamilton's. It was really cool because Gabby, you know, I've done a bunch of training with them and they're like to think I'm close friends with them. I'm friends with him. We'll put it that way. Closes on mine.

But I love him to death. They're great people. And she's like, yeah, Jim Carrey comes by here every now. And then I'm like, we dope to train with him. And then sure enough, he comes. And she's like, hey, I'm going to partner you two together. And I was like, get out. So I'm just sitting.

And she's like, you know, Jim, you don't. And I'm like, I know who you are. You don't need to introduce yourself, you know. And she's like, you know, Kyle fought in the UFC and qualifies me in some funny way because everyone there's like an athlete and musician or an actor. And he was awesome. And we were, you know, doing sauna ice bath and doing the underwater training. And, you know, he's asking me, like, who's going to win Floyd Mayweather or Connor McGregor?

And I'm like, there's no bet to be made. Like, Floyd is one of the greatest boxers of all time. He's going to smash Connor. There's Connor doesn't stand a chance. He's like, really? I'm like, it doesn't stand a chance. He's like, man. And I'm like, well, there's a meme going around of you saying you had to take five grams of psilocybin ground up and go into the woods to understand your role as Terrence McKenna.

And he's, and he starts laughing. And he's like, no, I'm not going to play Terrence McKenna. I'm like, damn it. So the Woods thing isn't true. And he's like, I didn't say that. And it's like, okay, cool. But just a cool, really cool down-earth guy, you know? And you don't always know what to expect, you know, when you're meeting people,

especially with, you know, a certain level of fame, which I think is I would never wish upon my worst enemy. You know, like I see, I even just watching certain people like Rogan at the UFC events, you go around and it's like, I want to be able to go to the grocery store. And if one person asked me for a photo, cool. But if everyone there is doing that, like, that'd be some, it'd be a certain type of hell, you know, to lack that freedom. And anyhow, I just say that because it's very refreshing when somebody has that type of superstardom and is still that awesome and down to earth. You know, it's a really extra cool thing. I want to backtrace a little bit.

You know, when this happens right after the Yank the medical license, did you know you wanted to go into documentary filmmaking? Like, what happened in that timeline there? For you? Well, I was in the States, living in the States, and everything had been taken away, you know, the ability to research, to actually give clinical care. And I thought, how can I continue to do this work and advance this cause? Because I know it has merit. Is it right? Is it wrong? I don't know. I mean, we're going up the tree rather than coming down. The science will resolve these questions. but I do know the work needs to be done, particularly on behalf of these children, these parents.

And so what to do? The first thing is you've got to learn, and I went down, I was down in Southwest Day, down in Bandera, went out one night, pitch black, no ambient light, looked up at the sky and just billions, billions of stars. And I thought, you know what? The universe really doesn't care too much.

about your problems. Okay, it's not about you. It's about something far more important. And that is what happens to these children. So get over yourself and do something useful. And so it took a huge weight off my shoulders. Just having that moment. You know, there was this infinite space.

And it was strong. It was a revelation to me. And what had happened over the years is people had come to me from federal agencies like the CDC, the Department of Health in England, or from the pharmaceutical industry, the vaccine manufacturers, and said, we've done a terrible thing. And here is the evidence. And so I became a repository for whistleblowers. People, you know, they'd come to me because of the position I'd taken.

And I thought, you know what, these would make amazing movies in the genre of the insider, Aaron Brockovich, this kind of thing. People love that kind of update based on a true story. And so that's what I started doing. I started screenwriting in 2001 and went from there and then got into directing. And I just loved it. I love working with actors and took it from there and did four, five documentaries, four documentaries, and then I thought I wanted to direct a feature film. I'd written a few, and so that's where I went next.

Made Protocol 7, which is about fraud at Merck, vaccine fraud at Merck, and that film won 34 film awards to date, and that's dangerously close to being respectable for me. Anyway, so that's where I am now, and that's what I want to continue doing. Because when I was in the clinic, you could help one child, one family at a time, make a movie, do it with integrity, make it entertaining, tell a story, and you can educate millions. So it became a very useful device. I'll give you an example. Ron Johnson's current hearings in the US Senate about vaccines, about COVID, about policymaking, about Tony Fauci, all these things.

he watched faxed he watched faxed it changed his mind so many people of minds were changed by watching vaxed and that got him involved so the engine of change was the movie i think there's it's funny because i used to just be non-fiction only like i i thought fiction was like masturbating you know like it's just a waste of time it's not the real thing you're not learning anything and there was a certain point, you know, where my wife was just falling in love with smut books of all things. And I was just like, I want to have that passion for books. You know, there's no like nonfiction where I'm like, oh my God, have you read this? You know, you're like trying to hand it to people. Like that just doesn't exist. And Paul Check, you know, it came on the podcast many times, but he was talking about the

importance of breaks from education. You know, like if you're steeped in education 24-7 and you're never pulling yourself out of that, even if it's just pure entertainment. Like last time we were hanging out at his place, we watched like the beekeeper with Jason Statham, this corny action flick. He's like a beekeeper that knows out of beat everyone's ass. And it's pure entertainment. There was nothing else beyond that. But, you know, fiction storytelling, which is the oldest form of our communication, can translate things in a way that can't really be stated in a how-to book, and a self-help guide and this is the way you do it, you know, military dot, dot, dot.

And it can inspire you in ways that nonfiction cannot. You know, and we know this from our favorite movies and things like that, but I think about that with the novel that you've written, that there can be this inspirational arc that can only come through fiction. And as well, you know, there can be something that imprints on us visually that's a felt experience from film that we don't necessarily get in just reading words on a page. So I feel like you're doing a fantastic job of delivering a story in different ways that have an impact on people and really do. Like, don't take my word for it.

Watch facts. You will understand the world differently at that point. Even if you've already had the intuition not to vaccinate and that's, in my opinion, to be the correct intuition. like you watch something like that and you're just like there's things that stick with you from that movie and um that that makes a lot of sense to me that that's it would just take that but it also takes someone of a a particularly open nature to say i'm going to watch this and and actually sit through this and and let it let it come in you know i'll see what i what vibes and what doesn't but like let's take it in and see you know and so i i give a lot of credit i don't give a lot of credit to politicians

but I give credit for, you know, you go watching that. That makes sense to me. Yeah, I think film also allows you, let's see, you have many, many individual isolated experiences of autism, for example, in your life as a medical physician, as a physician. And what a film allows you do is to take those and to condense them into one story. All of them are true. Each of them has happened, but in isolated families or events, you can take those and put them into, the framework of a single story. So people get, oh, that's autism.

Now I own that bit as well. And oh, children do this. And that's how they respond. And now I get it, which you won't get that experience in real life. Because they're occurring as isolated incidents in different families and different settings. So it allows you to do a whole lot of things that you can't do otherwise. But you are able to convey a truth that's equally as true as, any non-fictional story, it just happens to be done in a dramatic setting that leaves an impact on you

that makes you think about it long after the lights have gone down or come up. Well, I want to leave you with one final question, and this is probably, it's funny because while it is scientific, it is definitely more woo-woo. And so you could tell me if you have an opinion on it or not. but I'm trying to remember the name of it. Maybe you guys can help me out. I think it's, what do they call it? The, you know, when children are the telepathy tapes.

Have you watched it or listened to it? Have you gone through? Absolutely. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? Because you've, you know, you've got longer, more, more duration in this space than really anybody as far as somebody that's like really like you've been steeped in it, you know? So to witness this, obviously when you recognize the gifts of a savant in certain

cases and you're just like, oh, wow, like sure, this stuff is dumbed down, but there's so much resources going elsewhere that they're truly gifted in different ways. You know, and I know that's not universal across the board, but when you see it, it's like, wow, that's a superpower, you know, and so like it didn't surprise me when these came out. I was like, well, you know, if you follow it, yeah, of course. There's people right now teaching kids. It's easier to teach under 12, supposedly, but they're teaching kids how to double blindfold, you know, read with their eyes closed.

You know, they can match pictures from different cards, different shapes, different colors, and get stack 100% correct, 100% across the board with the kids. Things like that. My buddy, Alexzek, who has a confluence is a big meetup each year in Texas. And he's various speakers there. Catherine Austin Fitz was the lead speaker this year. But, you know, he has people come out and perform this, you know, and just show it to the crowd that it's real. And so, like, they took Mark Gober, who's an author and a friend of ours. and they had a child double blindfolded, read the barcode on the back of the book

that wasn't, she wasn't facing her. You know, somebody else was holding it, you know, and the camera's on it. And this kid is just reading a barcode, letter and number to the T all the way down. You're like 20 digits in and you're just like, for sure, this is real, you know. Einstein once said the universe is not only more complicated, more complex, than we can imagine, but more complex than we're able to imagine. In other words, we as human beings don't have the facility, unless we explore it, perhaps,

to even begin to understand phenomena that are not linear, not logical, not obvious to us. And more recently, and what we're talking about is when I first came across this, was the ability of a child, and a parent to communicate without the need for physical contact vision, you know, that a mother could hold up a card and the child who was looking the other way would know what that card was.

And I find it absolutely fascinating. There is theories in contemporary physics, the connectivity and quantum. entanglement that posit that elements have an interaction within the universe, distinct elements, biological or otherwise when they could be billions of light years apart. If you have a situation where you have a mother, and this is just one example, a mother and her child, two distinct elements that were once one, they were once unified, it kind of raises is the question, are they in communication in ways that we don't understand for all time, whatever the distance, whatever the separation, that they can communicate with each other.

But these skills have been lost to us in the sort of in the humdrum world in which we live just struggling for survival on a daily basis, that we've lost skills that perhaps the Shoshone Indians or the Arapahawas, other people retain. because they live closer to nature. So is it real? I'm perfectly, perfectly willing to believe that it's real, provided it can be tested in an environment where, and it has been, where it's an observer blinded,

you don't know, seeing what the mother's holding up, but is there this telepathic communication between mother and child in particular, one very strong instance of it, you know, where these two were once one. So is this an example of quantum entanglement or connectivity? It could well be. So I'm entirely open to it.

In fact, that also plays into the book as well. Super cool. I'm so excited to get into it. And, you know, I'm going to try my best to get this out this week. That way we time it right for Friday. And I think we can do it since we're, what is it today? Monday. We can get it up this week.

So we'll launch on Thursday. And if you're listening to this now on the day it comes out, then just, you know, Friday, Instagram. Buy the book on the Friday. Buy the book next Friday and we'll make it a bestseller. Join us on Instagram at Andrew J. Wakefield, 10 o'clock in the morning, central time, and join our launch party. Awesome. Well, brother, it is always such an honor to have you here in your wife and your team and this is so cool.

And you've got new life on the way here and the team, which is also awesome. It's just a thrill. Anytime you want to come on the podcast, it's yes. Thanks so much. Thank you. Appreciate you.