Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #51 Dr. Bruce Damer

Episode Date: September 17, 2018

Multidisciplinary scientist, designer and Author, Dr. Bruce Damer has devoted decades to the deep exploration of two fundamental questions of life: how the first living cells originated on the Earth four billion years ago; and how their progeny, the Gaian biosphere with its precious cargo of humans and other complex life forms, may be provided a path forward into the cosmos.  We sit down with the group to discuss dialing in the human cannabinoid system and ways of playing with and engaging our exogenous cannabinoids. The group includes Doug Reil, Uwe Blesching, David Rosenthal, Alexa Razma, Kari Barron and Moi. www.cannakeys.com Listen to the Levity Zone Podcast Connect with Bruce Damer on Facebook Youtube Twitter Levity Zone Podcast Bruce Damer.com www.karibarron.com  Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on Twitter and on Instagram Get 10% off at Onnit by going to Onnit.com/Podcast              Onnit Twitter        Onnit Instagram

All right, guys, I want to tell you about my famous sleep cocktail. It is a formula I created all by myself, and I actually did this before I got to Onnit. So we're going to mention Onnit products here, but I was using these products before I got here. Basically, we're using melatonin. The melatonin spray that we have it on it is going to help you fall asleep. And New Mood is going to help you stay asleep. There's a wealth of products originally designed to help balance neurotransmitters in the brain after a night of partying, if you can read between the lines on that one. But you got one to help you fall asleep, one to help you stay asleep. And then,

of course, magnesium, a building block that's absolutely critical, an electrolyte that we need that helps the heart function, the body function, especially at rest. And we want to take that at night. If you have a lot of magnesium during the day, you can have a backdoor blowout extravaganza, which is not fun. So you have key minerals from on it at night, four capsules of that with two capsules of new mood with a few sprays of the on it melatonin. And that is my ultimate sleep cocktail. You can find those all at Onnit.com. And if you go to Onnit.com slash podcast, you'll get 10% off your entire order of supplements and foods only. All right, y'all. I say y'all now, now that I've been in Texas for a year. Grew up in Cali, but I still say hella. I'll bring that out here. I brought hella to Texas. But I came back, y'all. I came back to Cali to interview my man, Dr. Bruce Dahmer, who I first heard on the Joe

Rogan Experience. He's been on Dr. Chris Ryan's podcast, Tangentially Speaking. He's been on my man, Kyle Tierman's show, has a wealth of knowledge in many different things. I thought I was going to interview him, but he wanted to bring on some friends who have a wealth of knowledge in the cannabis industry and really blew my mind. So we've got, I'm going to go down the list here and hopefully I pronounce these names correctly. Doug Reel,

Uwe Blesching, David Rosenthal, Alexa Razma, Kerry Barron, and Moy. Now you don't get to hear everybody on this podcast, but they all contributed in some way or another, whether it's through video or not, they're all worth mentioning. And you know, I know it's going to be hard because there's so many voices on this one. We didn't even have six mics. I think there were six guests. We used one recorder in the middle. So if the audio sounds a little off, please bear with me. The information is worth it. Trust me. Also, we need to mention, there's a lot of information discussed on this podcast. If you go to www.cannakeys.com, that's C-A-N-N-A-K-E-Y-S.com. I have no affiliation, but this is where the bulk of this knowledge is coming from.

This is the thing that these guys have put in together, this venture they've started out in the Bay Area. It's phenomenal what they're doing. You're going to learn how we can manage stress, how we can change the body's inflammatory response, how we can alter our own chemistry endogenously through our own productions of cannabinoids, as well as how we alter that exogenously through the use of plants and different medicinal aspects. And guess what?

If you're in a state or a country where cannabis is illegal, that's okay. There's many other cannabinoids that we can use that are legal. And I think you guys are going to learn a lot on this one. Just phenomenal. life, how the first living cells originated on the earth 4 billion years ago, and how their progeny, the Gaian biosphere, with its precious cargo of humans and other complex life forms, may be provided a path toward the cosmos. Well, collaborating with Professor David Dreamer at UC Santa Cruz and published The Hot Spring Hypothesis of Life's Origins, which is now undergoing testing by scientific teams worldwide. In the 1980s, he developed some of the first software using a graphical user interface and mouse for publishing. In the 1990s, he organized the community and movement bringing virtual worlds populated by users as avatars into the internet. While bringing virtual worlds technology to NASA for

simulating and designing numerous space missions, he co-developed Shepard, a unique spacecraft that could harvest resources from asteroids and enable the expansion of civilizations into the solar system. In a surprising new result, theoretical and laboratory work on the origin of life has uncovered a simple conceptual engine of creation, which may explain how all of biology, technology, and human experience is created. Dr. Dahmer is now collaborating with a network of scholars, spiritual teachers, and cultural investigators to consider how this cycling engine might transform our understanding of reality and what it is to be human. Dr. Dahmer's work at UCSC, the Biota Institute,

NASA, and his personal passions such as the Levity Zone podcast and Digibarn Computer Museum may be explored at http://www.dahmer.com. That's D-A-M-E-R. All right, y'all. Long ass intro, long ass podcast. It's fucking fire. I hope you enjoy the shit out of it. If you do, leave us a five-star review. Check out my man Bruce Nehmer at The Levity Zone on his podcast, which is exceptional. And also dig him up on Joe Rogan, which is just phenomenal. They take a deep dive, a little deeper than ours.

And if you're into this stuff, remember, approach these plants with respect. This is fucking medicine. It's not a toy. You wouldn't grab a handle of Jack Daniels your first time drinking alcohol and pound it to the dome if you knew what was good for you. So don't decide to go for 100 milligram THC edible the first time you play with cannabis. Start small, work your way up, respect the process, and that's when you get the best results. Hope you enjoy this one. Thanks for tuning in. Well, we have a lot of people. This is the first time I've had a podcast with this many guests. So process, and that's when you get the best results. Hope you enjoy this one. Thanks for tuning in. Well, we have a lot of people. This is the first time I've had a podcast with this many guests. So I'd like to, for voice recognition, hopefully, we can go around the table, have everyone

introduce their first and last name, and hopefully that voice will catch so you know who's talking as we're all going around the table here. We'll start here and go clockwise. Hi there, I'm Uwe Oberblisching, and it's a pleasure to be here. Greetings, my name is Alexa Razma, and you can call me Razma. Hi, my name is Carrie Barron. I'm Bruce Dahmer, sometimes called Dr. Bruce, and it's just such an honor to be in this group tonight talking about important things for humanity.

Yeah. Hi, my name is Douglas Riel, and it's a pleasure to be with all of you. Awesome. Well, I first met Dr. Bruce Dahmer at my buddy Kyle Tierman's house. And I followed you on Joe Rogan's podcast and on Kyle's show and massive fan. So this is truly my pleasure to be here in your home. And we got the tour to backtrack just a little bit. We had an amazing tour through the barn, got to see a complete history of maybe not complete yet, but completing history of, of, uh, computers and, uh, a look at which really, I was absolutely thrilled. I think

you guys were too, but to look through the Timothy Leary library, absolutely. I was a kid in a candy store, put it that way. So, um, where do we jump in here? I know we have a lot to talk about and we've got as much time as necessary. And there was a thing that you had mentioned because I listened to your podcast that you did with Deepak Chopra. And it's something I do as well. But you mentioned putting on a different face or a different suit depending on who your audience is. So I'd first like to address that and say, that's, I like that, but I don't know what anyone's, um, first thought is on the podcast that I have. Obviously it's health and wellness, fitness, that kind of thing. But I'd like to, to just open it up to get weird. I want to invite everyone to please, you know,

hold nothing back. Don't worry. I probably look more meatheadish than most of the people tuning in. So let's dive into some cool stuff because I know you guys all have a wealth of knowledge. The integrating, if I could offer it, the integrating theme that I thought when you and I got together to do this was something that actually came up again in the Digibarn when Uwe picked up the little Curta hand crank calculator, the most beautiful, perfect mechanical computer ever made for the hand, and said, this is the machine or this is the system that gave us the idea for a whole new metaphor for what we're

doing in our wellness which we came up with a name for called dialing you know think dialing in i'm dialed in i'm i'm and dial what a dial is is a knob that you can turn forward but you can also turn it backwards you can also you can start low. You don't have to go to 11 right away, right? And you can have another dial that relates to that dial. And really what we're doing in the 21st century, I think, in health is dialing. We're dialing our systems, and all our systems are different, but we're dialing, in this case, with this group, cannabis use, and we can learn to dial in a more precise way based on chemotype. My personal practice is dialing in what I call endo or endo tripping, endo journeying. There's dialing in for psychedelic medicines, the dialing

in for energy work, dialing into somebody else's system for somatic healing, simulating them, putting on a different skin, different identity, but becoming the other in order to facilitate healing. That's a form of dialing. And so maybe that's a metaphor for our time. It's a bit nerdy, but it's also mechanical and it's also, I think, real. It's real real and physical and you've done that in your podcast in your life you told us many dialing stories of getting it right and you know you you Doug and Uwe and everyone here Carrie and Roz have all dialed in to their optimal health and performance so I thought that could be like a nice theme and I have a very tall tale to tell you later about it

i love it so let's let's let's dial in the listeners here uh you have two books on the table and uh the breaking the cycle of opiate addiction opioid addiction and the cannabis health index and this looks like the bible the cannabis health index i And this looks like the Bible, the cannabis health index. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's a giant book and it's loaded with information. So unpack your research, really. I mean, this is, I mean, let's start there because a lot of this is going to come into dialing with cannabis. And then we can talk about other methods as well, because I think, um, one of the things, consistent themes that I like to give people is there are many paths that lead up the mountain right and not all of us live in california i miss this state but i live in texas now and it's a whole different ball game when it comes to cannabis use there and even just access

to good quality organic cannabis so having uh many paths whether that's endogenously or exogenously, I think those are important tools. Let me give you a practical example of how you might want to look at dialing in a particular type of cannabis or a particular type of cannabis constituents. There's one patient population that shows a good metaphor, is a good example for it. And that's people recovering from opioid addiction or from heroin addiction. And withdrawals from heroin are a horrific experience. You get the shakes. You got this horrific dysphoria.

You got abdominal cramps. It's just a pain amplifier to live in emotionally and physically and mentally. And there are a number of patients that have made the same map for themselves and by extension for others in terms of showing how cannabis can be used as an exit drug for a number of things, but in this case for opioid or heroin addiction. And their map, their story is pretty unanimous with mild variations on the theme. And what they do is when they tell their tale of how they recovered and eventually got off of opioids or heroin is they started with a dabbing cannabis,

a high THC concentrate that when they hit rock bottom physically and emotionally and psychically, they're walking into the dispensary or to a friend's place or they have a dabbing rig at home, they take one hit and their shakes stop. The dysphoria gets suppressed to a level that's sustainable

and that's something they can work with. And the idea is not to stay on to trade one drug with another, but to get you started to manage your withdrawals in a therapeutic way. After a few days, or in some cases, 10 days to two weeks, you step down in concentration of the DAP. You go from like an 80% DAP down to a 60, and you step it down further to where you can actually take a full spectrum cannabinoid, an oil that's extracted. And then you step that further down over time to where you take a chemotype one with a high concentration of THC, but also you have the benefit of all the other

cannabinoid constituents that are in there and that can play a therapeutic role in the bigger picture. And then eventually, you know, you keep on moving towards a chemotype two, which contains a relative equal amount of THC and CBD, which is often called the counterpart of the two prime cannabinoids. And then over a period of time, you can actually switch to a chemotype three, which is primarily CBD with only small amounts of THC. And that process that I just described usually happens over a period of weeks. And it usually doesn't exist in a vacuum where the only thing you rely on is another substance. But usually it's accompanied by supportive friends, a supportive environment, a therapist, a physician that supervises you. You know, whatever team they felt is what's going to get them to shift completely out of it.

But that's the common denominator. It's starting with a highly concentrated version and then slowly moving to the other end of the spectrum. And here's the interesting part where endotripping, the term that Bruce brought to the table, comes into play. Once you get to a place of balance where your major withdrawal symptoms are handled, what you can do then at that point is rely on mind-body or mindfulness techniques, mind-body medicine or mindfulness techniques to create an internal environment that in turn produces the chemical correlates that continue the work that you just did with an external plan, with a teacher plan, an ally,

however you want to call it, to get you to this place so that you can at that point take over and learn what you need to learn in order to end a trip, to create the internal architecture of mind that produces the chemical environment that continues you on this path of flow, of balance, of homeostasis. And the idea is, what's interesting about drug use is, at least in my book, I always find fascinating what drugs people are attracted to. Because I've come to believe that the drugs they like is a direct reflection of the emotional reality they'd like to live. And there's nothing wrong with that.

In fact, it can give you some interesting clues about what you want. A person attracted to psilocybin or LSD, chances are that if you ask them what they like about the experience, is a sense of wonder, of adventure, of opening doors that they couldn't have imagined with their own living imagination as far as they know what they're comfortable with. Somebody who wants, who feels attracted to cocaine, they probably want to have confidence and an unshattering ability to focus and to see things through with, you get the point I'm trying to make right and same with the the reason why i think so many people are attracted to cannabis because everybody's stressed out you know and especially in in in in in in the united states where you know meeting

your your daily requirements your bills or it can be a be a hard experience for a lot of people. And so to just chill after 12 hours of commuting and an eight hour of grinding at the office and dealing with the boss's attitude, you got to relax a little. And so, but a lot of people have forgotten how to do that. So a little bit, a little talk is just what they need, just what the plant prescribes and offers and gives. And because a lot of us have forgotten how to get there ourselves.

And so I think there might be a good way to start about talking about dialing in what type of cannabis might be useful for what phase of your life you find yourself in and then how to fine-tune that experience so that you open up to to the whole idea of endotripping of being able to to get where you want to go without an external substance and and so what these these folks that i just mentioned what they all have demonstrated to me is that you can do this. You can get from a very extreme withdrawal, junkie, addicted place to one where you are fully responsible and have full agency over the emotional qualities that hold value to you, that are closest to your ideals. I love it. We started at the top, you know, and that's something I think, um,

that resonates with a lot of people because there is an opiate epidemic right now. And I think that's, it's fairly common knowledge. Um, I've lost a couple of friends to heroin in college at Arizona state, um, cousin of mine, the pills, you know, it's something that grabs people. And there's not many tools that lead us back. So any tools that we can have, they're needed. And heroin, craving heroin or opioids, what those people commonly tend to use is euphoric analgesia. You know, people want to be in a state without pain. And because I believe many of them are in constant pain, either physical or mental, emotional pains. And to shift away from that, even to just be for a moment pain-free, by itself creates a euphoria that often gets

transferred to opioids or to heroin, when in fact it could be your endorphins, your endogenous opioids, way as to work through it, release it, and in that sense be free of it. And then out of that release, you know, embrace the euphoria of just the sheer gratitude of what you must be like of living in pain. And all of a sudden, you don't have to do that anymore. And it may be different from one person to the next in terms of what needs to happen in order to get there, but that's where endotripping comes in, and that's why endotripping is a very subjective experience,

even though the maps that have been made, and we all can contest to that in one way or another, you know, they are common themes or common denominators, or even scientific evidence that one can rely on to make more informed decisions in terms of where they might want to start in terms of how to work this for themselves. And to take off on what you were saying is, Doug and I started talking about four years, five years ago. Five at least. Because what had happened to me since I was nine.

So at about eight or nine years old, I discovered that if I had a very stimulating day, like I was playing Captain Kirk. This is the time of the old Star Trek and I got beamed in by Captain Kirk. This is very good. And stimulating day where I was in my imagination if i closed my eyes to take a nap or trying to go to sleep there was amazing color flashes going on behind closed eyelids and i'd open my eyes and there would be no lights on and i thought wow this is color TV, except we don't have color TV yet, right? The neighbors did, but we didn't have a color TV. And I learned to, I loved it. I just physically or emotionally loved the flashes and the colors. So I started to minimize myself down. I dialed myself

back, my consciousness. Sometimes it's called the default mode network. Dialed it down so I was just barely an observer. I called myself the crystal sphere, just observing. And then the flashes resolved into landscapes and they just went, whoa. And then I had a little recorder button. So I learned back in those years, push record, let's record this whole thing. And then stuff would happen. Entities would come through and all this would happen. And in my team. This was at nine years old?

Yeah. Wow. So I think all children do this. And I think it's endogenous DMT is what they're running. And all through my teen years, I drew thousands of drawings of worlds. So I kept that system going like the Cecil B. DeMille, like we're keeping the cameras rolling. We're not going to let the dark room go dark and not be able to do this. And then that rolled into my entire adult career, virtual worlds, spacecraft design, origin of life, everything. So that's my primary tool is endotripping.

So I can literally load up the studio with the key question, and then the actors appear and the rendering people and the Foley artists and whatever, and one day it'll start coming up through the body, and then I'll close my eyes and I'm engulfed in the endotrip, which might be a delivery for how life began on the Earth. Yeah, you've used the endotripping modality to inform some of the directions of your scientific explorations. Yeah, writing code in my 20s, doing virtual worlds in my 30s,

spacecraft design for nasa because i wanted to solve the riddle of the origin of life and how to get life into the cosmos complex life from earth those are my two objectives as a teenager and so i've always just kept on those two paths and everything just came together in 2015 like a perfect union the two ideas the two technical publications the two TEDx talks on one day and it was done and and the collaborators and everything this is magical it's like the synchronistic feel was really it delivered you know but I was paying attention but endotripping was a key and actually meeting terence like i completely stayed away from mind altering anything because i didn't want to mess up the endo tripping system and actually when i did enter that world it was through terence and i put a firewall up and i could shut off the entire endo system, power it down step by step to not affect it. And then in 2013,

only then I decided to power up everything at once. And then it became extraordinary at that point. Because with a very, very low dose, not high dose, I dialed my doses down so they were very low so then the effect would come in but it would be gentle right madre would come and put her suitcases down like i'm here that kind of thing instead of you know take you over rake you over so so then what I did was I learned a practice called winding the vine. So taking six or seven energy systems and pulling them into a single union. Kundalini from below, rainforest energy from above or from nature, the planet, the planet. Music and sound coming in, healing coming in. The endo-tripping way of complete presence,

like no thinking, like I'm not here. The record button, and then what I do to finish this practice is I would wait until the medicine would come in, and I would watch for its wash patterns and compare them with my own ability to those flashes and the fractal washes. And I had determined that they were the same thing. So what was coming in was exactly the same compound, really, as I was always generating. And at that point, I then had a practice to wait until they came close together and almost touching like the hands of

leonardo or michelangelo and then they would make make a perfect union and that would click and then my whole system would just vibrate and all the kundalini is flowing and all the everything is just going and my cells are now generating the endodmt like every cell in my body is like cranking this endodmt and then i would come into union with the spirit entity itself we'd like we can't be non-dual we have to be one and like now we're one and then we could journey further and further so it was like in it was like a dialing and this was with ayahuasca? This was with ayahuasca. And then with everything else. So even without a medicine, you know,

because I finished my ayahuasca practice several years ago, now I'm doing pure energetic dialing. So all of these traumas that people are suffering from, that take the opioids, that need all the relief, they're related to deep childhood wounds and traumas that happen you know this is the great discovery of the 21st century that we know that there's sometimes they're called character styles eckhart tolle called them the pain body right he described the triggering the pain body in his clients and the clients would start screaming and shouting, and he'd record them like we're doing here, and he'd play them back.

Those things that the client couldn't believe what was going on. Why? Because the pain body is an entity of its own. And when it's triggered, there's a protector above it. It's the wounded child. The protector is trying to keep that wound from getting re-injured the pain body is stimulated the protector comes roaring out attack you know there's there's several there's a dozen kinds of pain bodies now they're well characterized and then there's like managers that like do this do that do this and there's a whole complex, a society of mind, like Marvin Minsky said,

around these complexes. So I went into this luminous awareness practice where we get 100 of us together every three months, and we work on one core trauma. We just did psychopath. And psychopathy is, there could be control psychopathy, there could be a seductive one or a denied power psychopathy. And that comes from real abuse at a certain age,

you know, five to seven into teen years. And what we do is literally people self-identify. We go through what is psychopathy? Do you have it? And people self-identify. We go through what is psychopathy? Do you have it? And people self-identify and you can scan people's systems and find it in them. The great practitioners can scan a whole system like there it is. They can then start talking to the little entity that's protecting the wound itself directly. So you're talking to several people.

You're talking to the person here, but you're talking to another one there. And then we'll line everybody up, you know, 25, 30 people line up and sort them out as like the severe ones are over here, like the real heavy duty cases. And then the middle ones and the blends over here. And then the group will trigger the lineup as a collective. So beyond what Eckhart would do is triggering a client in the office, will trigger the entire group. And because there's so many people, it's like a holy roller church service. There's so much energy in the room, and there's so much intelligence to this energy. It's a healing healing power it's like the power of ayahuasca's healing energy it just is so intelligent and it's moving but this is a pure human medicine kind of thing

and you're in such a potentiated field that someone will roll they'll start you know their body will start undulating for example because these these traumas are held in the cells that's why talk therapy didn't work psychotherapy didn't work for decades because you can't talk something into basically feeling and processing something that's cellular so the triggering brings out the protectors are trying to defend the little wound is saying i'm being paid attention to for the first time i've seen you know that all this stuff is happening it's deeply shamanic and then we would people will start rolling and we take them to their group and three to four hours they've processed through intense but really directed and with people with skills moving around the room so it isn't like an

ayahuasca ceremony where you're kind of coming in blind you know things are triggered things happen but there isn't a practitioner that understands this deep mechanism you know so i feel really in a sense you can do it in combination i mean you can do it in combination. I mean, you could do it in combination. So this new practice is really an energetic dialing in. Like right now, when I was with Deepak, when you saw with Deepak Chopra, I actually was dialing into his system. I was scanning his system. And then I went into something we call in the practice open-hearted awareness

where you go super spatial and then you open up your heart center like this and you can feel it and Deepak's system went like that as I was just trying to reach him that way rather than just through the mental talk a little little bit about that. I understood what you were talking about on your podcast, and I encourage people to tune in to what's the name of your podcast? The Levity Zone. Levity Zone. And if you just punch in Bruce Dahmer into your iTunes or wherever it is, it'll pop up. But it's an amazing 40-minute you did with with Deepak Chopra and you talked about that you spoke about opening up the heart like dropping your consciousness down from the mind into this

heart space and the jock in me would have revolted hearing that 10 years ago, but through my work with ayahuasca and psilocybin and MDMA, um, and then also through watching documentaries like I am and seeing what's going on at the heart math Institute here in Boulder Creek, like there is, it's verifiable. Like we're, I guess all of our heart chakras are touching right now. We want to really talk yoga or woo, right? Like it's, it's an eight foot field right it's it extends out further than any other part of our body so all that the language of that energy is human interaction and for people who think that's bullshit like all you have to do is

is think of a time where you felt someone's presence in a room and you just felt icky or afraid or i mean dogs do it. Babies know it, you know, like they could sense that because they haven't turned that part of their body off. They haven't been told that's not real. They just know it's there. They're tuned into that. Right. So, but, but unpack that, that kind of conscious choice to drop from this staticky, frantic mind space that we live in in the West into this heart space where we actually feel and can send out that love and tune into one another. This is the great mission of the 21st century, of our era. This is it. And it's happening all over the globe. It's happening to you, a certified jock look at you now i mean in five

years and and you know but and you represent jockdom at its premium level with with wrestling and you know fight culture right but and yet you embody the heart opening And if it can happen inside you, it can happen in all of humanity. And it's a beautiful thing. And it's our path to survival. Because in the challenges to come, you know, we've got all these challenges. We have the, I call it the serpent of technology. It taught us how to see through pixels and the tree snakes we co-evolved with that made us into beings that could see pixels because of the snake scales and tripping us out.

But now we can study screens and it opened our consciousness. It opened us to 3D high acuity color vision. But that same serpent is on the phone now and it's utilized by the psychopath process to gain control and power so the serpent of our own nature comes through media and constricts and extracts from humanity but at the same time it was the powers the thing that evolved us into who we are and we push back against that snake right and we push back and we push out different media you know and and this is how we're co-evolving so all the fake news and all the crazy conspiracy theories and the madness is an evolutionary stress on us and our countering of that with open-hearted awareness, like Ram Dass has taught for 50 years.

That's what it comes down to. It's what Terence McKenna said the day before his death. And no one knew this. This is why we brought this to the world in 2012. Terence sat up in bed as he tried to do. He was on anti-seizure medications he'd had gamma knife surgery and everything for his brain tumor this is on april fool's day of 2000 right the millennium had happened there wasn't a y2k disaster he at least lived to see that but he sat upright in bed and

this is for all you trippers out there all all you people who are trying to see the machine elves, right, and fallen under this sci-fi spellcasting. He sat up in bed and said, psychedelics, they're not about ideas. They're not about all that shit, you know, that shit. They're about love and what had happened was all the mental process all the storytelling around trips all of the the eschatons and the singularities and all that stuff was gone it had been dissolved by this mushroom-shaped tumor or you know a coincidence who knows. But, I mean, his mental structure had been completely turned to mush.

And what came up through Terence McKenna was it was really all about love. That was the power of these medicines. It's his greatest rap. It was nine seconds. And we read it into the record at Esalen in June of 2012. And so even, you know, that's really what it comes down to. So Terrence led us there

on his last words. And then he said, keep breathing, folks, keep breathing. And that was another piece of wisdom, because it's about the breath. Yeah. The breath is life, and we hold our breath, you know, when we're on phones and computers and

holding the breath strangles the body and creates anxiety and panic which creates this need for all this stuff we take because we're in the state of anxiety but it comes down to attention to breath you know eckhart said attention to breath is worth 99 seminars and everything else you know so there are these paths and i know you've gone down that way we've all all gone down that way but but um we have the most powerful tools in human history that come through multiple traditions plant medicine meditation uh extreme sports endurance and uh full initiations of humans again, returning after 1700 years after the destruction of the Lusus, so that we can initiate our young, like the Africans do with Iboga, initiate people into adulthood, into human beings. That's returning all over, you know, the combo.

We have the best tools we've ever had. We have a runway to do this thing. I think we're going to do this thing. We're going to build a great civilization. We're going to expand to the stars. You know, we're going to drive Elon's teslas all the way to mars and uh not too much traction in space but it's it's just an extraordinary time in human history and i think on it and you know canna keys and all of you know rosa's ross's roles and your incredible practices you know are you know

but you're birthing in australia there we could all talk about those i mean they're the the great tools of the health and wellness of this rare and special complex species well let's jump back real quick and then i want then I want to include the ladies. But you talked about starting something with Bruce five years ago. Is that when you guys started working together? Well, we talked a lot on and off about his endotripping experience that began when he was nine. And I've always been fascinated by, it seemed like you skipped a few steps in what most people have to go through to deal with their traumas and the challenges that they've often internalized through their socialization, their upbringing, their experience. And I always found Bruce remarkable because he was able to somehow, and I'd love to hear, you know, any thoughts you

have about that, about how you've been able to tap into a modality that, like Uwe said earlier, people can move toward to learn tricks and practices that can allow us to tap into our endogenous potential. But you seem to jump right to it quickly. But the funny thing was the project, for whatever reason, we could never, it never materialized, at least in a physical form of a book or something that we could. We were going to call it the little book of endo.

The little book of endo the little book of it would be like the uh the bestseller called everything i know i learned in kindergarten i guess from about 20 years ago it was really simple and i started interviewing people who had endo tripping experiences and every time i talked to somebody on the phone i said was it lucid dreaming were you just waking up no no it was day daylight sometimes open-eyed i was on the bus um i endo trip constantly and like is it uh are you smoking or taking anything no no i'm not doing that and i realized that there were cases of people who open-eyed or closed eyes were in intense trip states that had meaning, that they could actually put intention into. There was a fellow who solved a major mathematical theorem. And when it came on, his girlfriend, she reported to him later,

it's like, your eyes are open, I wave my hand in front of you, and about two hours later, you come to. He was totally taken over. He was in a mathematical cosmos and being shown the solution. So it's like an act request. You ask for it and dream it and you have faith it's going to come and one day it does. I mean, this came to Albert Einstein when he was riding alongside a beam of light.

He was running that special relativity. Newton had these experiences. Descartes had these experiences. Cary Mullis, Francis Crick, all the people trying to solve the big problems. And I think artists live in an endo world all the time. And perhaps even in extreme sports. I mean, everything in slow motion, I mean, you're, in a sense, you could be endo-tripping a move before you do it, and it would show you the best way to do something really difficult, really challenging, and so I think it's

a different thing. I think it's brand new, because people haven't, every time I talk to them on the phone, I announced this on a couple of podcasts and I had call after call and they always would say, thank you for giving a name for this thing. I never, I never, I thought it was just strange. I thought there's something wrong with me. No, but I think in some sense, endo or the endo way or the endo tripping is one of the greatest tools humans will ever have because it's it's a combination of a delivered vision to a request as most of these people were saying i'd like a solution and the cosmos is delivering the giant synchronicity field that now i feel around me all the time and i talk to it i think it like on a daily basis thank you for doing this and helping me build

gandalf's house up the hill and it's just continuously rolling now and i think it's our greatest tool because you can throw any problem at it any any issue and if you're patient and you wait and you're not you're not overthinking it, because it's being solved in some kind of a big network somewhere. And then you are a channel, you're a clear channel for the download, for the solution. And when it starts coming, minimize yourself and push record. And sometimes I learned how to do a pause button. So by the time I was an adult, I could do the pause thing. So I'm on a long flight to China.

The huge download has started on nothing more than bad airline coffee and noise-canceling headphone at altitude. So you get a little bump when you're at altitude, especially when you're up in the mountains. You get, my God, it's just, it's constantly going for me. And I could do that, you know, it'd be rolling and I'd be protocells flowing in solution. And I would pause it and draw in my notebook, everything I saw. And then I'd restart, go back and restart and it would be in a different position. And then I would ask ask it why are we in cold water oh you're being i'm showing you how sex began okay and and so two and a half hours later

i have a full notebook as i've paused and restarted and paused and restarted and then there's a moment in endotripping it's very specific where it over. And that's when you know you're not driving this with imagination. This is a delivered thing. And it is done. And you just let it go. Let it go. Don't push it. Don't push on it.

Don't desire it or try to pull it in. And that respects it, respects the gift that was given. That's it. But it's astonishing. And I saw all these people who have the same experience. So the idea of the little book of Endo or the Endo way was to a guide as to how to go in and when it starts to happen, what to do, you know, whether you're 9 or 99, you know.

And you feel it's available to everyone and you feel it's available to everyone i think it's available to everyone i think it happens to people a lot it's one of those things that is a little shard of awareness that comes and goes and it hasn't been identified yet in breath work oh my god in pranayama breath work it's a total door opener for this it's completely a clear channel so breath work is a sometimes i'll finish yoga and breath work and i'm in an endo state and it's a story is unrolling and i'll grab my voice recorder right away and lay down some tracks some memory pranayama would be like breath of fire. Breath of fire, yeah. And so how long typically would you do that?

I would do, so I made up a combination practice that I learned from Sri Sri Ravi Shankar from Art of Living. And I start with pranayama, with sun salutation yoga. I do some body roll. I do some Feldenkrais. And I do some, like, total back rolls to pop my vertebrae. Because a tall guy like me, back problems, right? So if I pop, if I roll my vertebrae into popping every day, I'm going to have no back problems.

And then I sit and I do the ojai breaths and the breath holding and holding six seconds blowing it out with a pot with a basically your belly breath and then holding it in for four and that creates this strength of the lung hunger for air hunger for air and it creates a powerful living and you do that sort of holding this way on your shoulder that's the art of living practice and then you switch to the pastrika which is the pump action breath and that's an amazing practice to turn off the mind like bellows breath bellows breath like you know through the nose and with each pump action you push the mind a little bit off off and stills off the ledge until it shuts down. You do three sets of those, and your mind is shut off.

Now the mind, the busy morning mind, has gone away. It's taken a holiday. And then you do an oming. I do an oming practice to bring energy up and vibrate my body to let all this come up and be felt. Then the pranayama is the breath of fire so 10 40 and 40 at various rapidity so the minutes or repetition 10 reps okay 10 reps of the low speed breath uh 40 at the medium and and 40 at high. And I learned another practice, which is the energetic fields. So now your system is really, the mind's not running anything.

You have a tremendous amount of energy flow here, body oxygenation. So what I learned to do is in between each of the reps, like the 10 rep into the 40 rep, I clap that concentrates energy. And then there's such a field around you at that point that will bring the feel that, oh, wow, you really feel it. And after I do the 40 breaths of fire, I usually do this. And it pulls energy from the cosmos through you. And then the last step i came up with is uh

mantras so when i'm come now i'm a complete open channel i'm like an alex gray painting pretty much at this point and then i'll start to go through the breath all the way up to the highest overtone and then i'll launch into mantras and it could be nonsense mantras it's any any sound but it's super loud it carries across the valley here it's total aliveness it's total power and aliveness and then i'll come down into a feeling one where the heart and these are where the parts get healed so the little injured part in you gets sung to that's a huge deal and and the little part gets sung to and you're singing to all of your little parts all your little children and at one shot everyone's is cool everyone's being loved and so that's my that's 20 minutes it's 20 minutes and it's a it's a total rounder thing

yeah anyway so that's that's the practice i've come to over the last five or ten years yeah i love it and you set an intention when you go into this if you're going to problem solve or is it sometimes just for the state of being it just right for instance doing it before this podcast so that i'm really clear um or yeah and then literally during during that stuff starts to move like an endo experience can start to happen and suddenly like with the origin of life solution it's like it's coming and my mind went just like this and i just sort of sat back and 45 minutes later i had been the first dividing protocell i had been you know this was just on the breath work just on that practice i just described and it had been you know years and

years and years of putting in an intention and it was that was the moment was december 30th 2013 and it just came i i flowed with the protocells i was i saw the entire path of molecular evolution all the way up to dividing cells from the the first simple assembled lipid sacs with random polymers the whole process and it was all communal that was the most amazing role for human psychology and spirituality is that this is what Deepak was so interested in was we didn't start as individuals at all there was never an individual at the origin of life it was a network community that was the and it has been the unit since, an interdependent community network. And it was called the progenote by Carl Woese in his 1977

paper that won, it was an amazing paper, predicted the third branch of life, the archaea. And we're on the path of the progenote now. If we can grow those in the lab and show a simple protocellular entity struggling forward in evolution toward life, we'll know how we began. But we began as this community system. So that's what we're holding to roll in the 2020s, as Einstein rolled relativity into the 1920s, the greatest decade really in terms of modernizing society was the 1920s in the last century. And it's the Bauhaus and electronic trading and women's liberation and all that happened in the 2020s, out of this morass of nonsense, right, we can roll this powerful new idea from science that we started as a communal unit, as a synergistic communal unit. And it comes out of straight out of empirical science, hard-nosed, freaking reductionist chemistry. You know, just like relativity proved in 1919 by the eclipse you know hard no science i

mean these are not woo people and that will help us roll out of one very very damaging meme that the madre once grabbed my shirt collar and i was wearing a shirt collar she grabbed my shirt collar and said, your man Darwin got it right, but you interpreted it this wrong. You now know how you were made, but you put the wrong language to it, and that's survival of the fittest. And it's destroying you and it's destroying your world. Get over it. So I was shown another way to describe evolution through this origin model and it was a lifting and gifting so as each level is subject to stress it's like a grid over your little struggling protocells and then one struggles up through that grid of stress and reproduces and and passes those

jewels of evolution along and then there's another stress that comes down and then another one but not the original struggles its way and gifts it's an innovation this is actually how evolution works and it's a community lifting against all these odds and against the stress that's applied to it and this is is like the Madre or Gaia or whatever's way of bringing us into being, right? And this is a whole new way of seeing how we came into being. And it's powerful and it's actually in coherence with the actual science. But it'll roll philosophy and spiritual thought and things like that. That's what Deepak was interested in. Yeah.

So end of a long diatribe here I love it so moving on Carrie looks like you you are ready to to add something beautiful to the discussion yeah sure um I'd like to just go back to the discussion. Yeah, sure. I'd like to just go back to what you were saying about people that are addicted to opiates and other substances that they're trying to get to a place where they're feeling good. I believe that it starts from a disconnection from source energy.

The ultimate pain. Yeah, and then when they have these sort of substances, It starts from a disconnection from source energy. And then... The ultimate pain. Yeah. And then when they have these sort of substances, it releases certain neurotransmitters that makes you connect back to source. Or chemically feel like you're connecting back to source. Exactly. Yeah, that's the way I like to look at addiction. Yeah, I know that Dr. Gabramonte has said that at the root of all addiction is some trauma, right? And it could be said that that original trauma is the feeling of separation.

It is this loss of oneness. Lack of meaningful connection, feeling alone, those are horrific things to ponder in the night or an emotion that you don't want to feel you know and um you want to bury it so much so the way i look at alcohol is it's um it's a preservative and it locks in a vibration if you look at how you use it other than drinking it holds in that vibration so somebody that's really addicted and they have that huge trauma that's underlying that if they stop drinking all these old emotions start coming up and then if you don't have a support system around you it actually makes you go really crazy and suicidal. So that's what the 12-step program is about, giving you that support system around you.

But what I like so much about ayahuasca and ibogaine and some of those other substances is when you ingest them, all these traumas and emotions come up at once. You just purge it right out into the bucket. So you just feel it all and let it go. You don't have it all bubbling up and trying to, trying to work through it and slowly and painfully it's, it's quick and effective.

Yeah. And all, all is revealed. It doesn't matter what you hide from yourself. You know, one thing I like to tell people too, is that, and it and certainly been the case for myself and my wife is that you don't get the kitchen sink thrown at you on day one. So it's not like, well, I've got so much shit that I had to deal with growing up.

I don't want to relive all that. I don't want to see all that. You don't get everything all at once. You get what you need when you can handle it. And things often come in layers. And you continue to learn that each experience is different. It's not the same experience each time. It's never the same.

And one big item associated with addiction is what you resist persists. And so a lot of issues around abuse of drugs are actually having to do with not wanting to look at what's coming up to the surface here's that feeling that i don't want to deal with here's the the thoughts the memory i don't want to confront so i'm going to do something that takes my mind into a different direction it only works to a point you know know, it always comes back. The withdrawal always comes. The hitting rock bottom, the euphoria always comes back. We're hardwired not to be able to escape from it because I think that that sort of ties into what you said earlier when you started talking, Bruce, that there's a child in us that was injured at some point, and it may have been the point of separation from the womb as sort of like a physical metaphor for being separated from source, from oneness, from the goddess,

however you want to fill in your own blank on that matter. But that trauma is alive and it's breathing, or that part of you is alive and it's breathing. And I think in talk therapy or in traditional therapeutic approaches where you here and now are asked to deal with the issues that keep on coming up and you keep on rejecting as a defense mechanism. As soon as it bubbles up, red alert goes off and something comes to protect you from it. And it serves you to a point.

When you're seven, when you're two, when you're five, you don't have the capacity to deal with that level of pain and the meaning behind it. By the time you've grown, it's a different story. You have resources. You can ask for help. There's different ways to manage it. But I have found the cathartic thing happens when you address the part locked in time of when the trauma actually happened.

So call it regression, call it using your own imagination to, to, to talk to that part of you, to be, in other words, give your kid what it needed to cope, to survive, what it never got. Because you is all it has.

So I think once that happens, cathartic release and meaning can come out of that. And you can step out on the other side where you don't have to rely on a substance to keep a lid on it. So what you resist persists is sort of like a guiding mantra, at least in terms of dealing with my own pains and dramas and traumas. And so I don't try to run from it anymore. I mean, you know, sometimes I still i still do but you know it every layer that comes up it may be in an ibogaine session or in in you know it's always been a process over many years sometimes i resolve one layer and then there's like three more it's like peeling an onion or something like that and it's not necessarily fun and comfortable you know but over time and looking

back and and making it it real and present is has sort of like been a good approach and and it's interesting that substances can facilitate that and suppress that depending on your intention and so your intention is actually a big part of how you can open and set a direction for endotripping. And I think you pointed that out. You do that at times when you want to resolve an issue. You set an intention, and then you either use a technique or a substance and see what happens. And be open to receiving the solution.

And from what I hear, the solutions are coming. And what you said is so beautiful that, in fact, in our luminous practice, it's all called parts work. That's from another practice that these are parts. And that you can be the parent of your part. You can give it the love, what it needs, like the singing or the... And you have the power to heal and help that part. See, that to me is the ultimate endotripping,

or at least one big aspect of it, especially in the healing sphere. Not so much in the exploratory or opening new doors to new possibilities, but in the context of healing and dealing with past trauma, I think it's a nice way of putting it. And then there's the lineage. Then there's the things that happen generations over generations. And now we're coming into an understanding that's real. And it passes down and it's so powerful. Now we're coming into an understanding that's real.

And it passes down and it's so powerful. The emerging science of epigenetics is making it very clear that past traumas are passed down for several generations. To where specific gene expressions are either switched on or switched off. It doesn't go beyond a certain number of generations, but it does have an impact. There's an excellent book called The Mind-Body Code, and he talks about that. They verified at least three to four generations deep, and they've studied on the epigenetic level Holocaust survivors and have seen their children who didn't go through the holocaust and the exact same genetic expressions a lot of a lot of science

coming out back in that and also the the internal architecture of mind that often is seen in people dealing with the trauma of poverty it's like a a a a consciousness a poverty consciousness, if you will, that is passed down that's akin to passing it down genetically, but bringing the mind-body aspect into the picture. It's sort of like genes are usually thought of in terms of biology. But what I'm talking about is the epigenetic passing down of mental structures that keep you locked in into scarcity and into making it very difficult to reach levels of abundances

that other people seem to enjoy with ease. And that's just one context. Mental-emotional architectures are spaces. And, you know, they're not all right or wrong. It's just that when you find yourself in one space, you have this particular experience, you have these difficulties difficulties and you have these uh strength and and abilities and and if you don't like what you see and what you experience you need to shift that internal structure if you want to see change and and that's another

arena where endotripping can really make a difference. It's sort of like taking inventory of the attitudes, the beliefs, the choices, and decisions, and the thoughts, and the feelings that I'm having that I'm constantly repeating. I'm the one sustaining them, even though I may not be conscious of it, although you can make it conscious. And then realizing, oh, these are my boundaries that I set with all these structures given to me by my past traumas, by all the socialization, by my parents, by my upbringing, whatever it is. And when you make a shift from the inside out, that's when your experience starts to shift. Your emotions and your thoughts and your feelings will respond

to making different choices emotions and your thoughts and your feelings will respond to making different choices and changing your beliefs. And that's, to me, one of the most fascinating perspectives in terms of looking at endotripping. And the key is the little observer crystal sphere. Because, say, there's an example from the 1970s, primal scream therapy, which was tremendously cathartic. So it was that Esalen, it was that people would just primal scream. But what it tended to do, it opened people to the ability to do it, right, to express all that from deep down. But they stayed with the screen. They attached to the primal release and bring them right back like a Ferris wheel ride

or like a roller coaster ride back, and they were exactly where they were. They didn't let go of it. Well, here's the thing. The simple shift, and this actually comes from Tibetan Buddhism, really from Sarvabhjogin, really, is let the primal screen happen, but observe it. Watch it.

The observer watches the primal screen, experiences it in an unjudgmental way. That's where healing can start. This is what I find interesting about using cannabis in a therapeutic fashion because it allows you to bring up otherwise intolerable emotional material to the surface and be with it in a relaxed and open and and exploratory frame of mind perspective however you want to look at it. And just in many cases, just being with things that you normally would suppress can be therapeutic by itself. You can take it a lot further and look at specific details in terms of your internal constructs and take them apart. Like if I all of a sudden realize that I have a particular belief that says that gay people are committing by just being a crime against God, and that forces my anger to boil. And I actually like the power of that anger, the sense of being righteous in the eyes

of my fundamentalist God. You know, it's not just right, but it's also giving me a sense of power. And once you step back from that, and you actually just observe that, and you actually get to see, oh my God, look at this. This is what I do. This is a structure. This is not right or wrong. This is just what happens. This is just what I do. And look at what it does to my health, my blood pressure. Oh, I have blood pressure problems, my heart. I have irregularities. Whenever I, you know, and all of a sudden, if you place it in that meaning and you take it apart and you make even a subtle shift in choices in terms of creating a different expression of how to deal with something that normally would set you off, pushes your butt and triggers you. Just a subtle shift in making a slightly different choice can be a cathartic thing and get you into a completely new direction. And that itself can be very empowering to realize that, oh, wait a minute,

you know, this is me or this is how I normally react. And now I see some of the reasons behind it and why I like it. And it affects my body and it affects it in a way that's maybe not that healthy. So if I want to make some different, if I want to create a different experience and if I want to improve my health, I'm going to want to have to shift some and try something new, shift my choices about how I'm going to look upon this. And oftentimes when people do it, you know, they have different experiences and that's when deep change tends to happen, you with this type of endo tripping and and and and cannabis is fascinating that way

because especially when you set the intention it can be very revelatory and in that sense i think it's one of the best explanation on on on why cannabis can be an exit drug especially you know used with that you know with that intention in mind. So an exit of looping conditions and addiction to anything. And not just drugs, but the sense of power that I get from my righteous anger that I throw at the people I love to hate. Like in my case, I love to hate warmongers and war profiteers and people who don't care about the environment

and just want to make a quick buck. And it just gets me righteously angry and i i'm speaking from experience i looked at that having having smoked some cannabis by trying to resolve this in some way that that is different from the way i've always done it and it just i just realized like i really like the sense of righteousness and it fuels my identity and it's like i get a kick out of it and and it's part of the problem because it just creates and me versus them and a separation and we were just talking about it you know one of the the primordial issues with addiction to anything, including sense of power, is a lack of separation from source. You know, where those issues of duality and one fighting another are not an issue. And so it's part of how endotripping can if you like them, if you like to feel this way.

And if you don't, then you know what to work with and how to get started. A useful metaphor that came to me, actually, in the early stages of my AYA experience was the kindergarten teacher. So I went on my first meeting with her up into this space where she showed me the entire reactor cores firing at each other, like they were the collective unconscious. And there was one ball that was like kind of stress and anxiety and fear. And there was one ball that was kind of stress and anxiety and fear. And there was one ball that was mind. There was one ball that was the heart. And there was this cycle of these reactors

just completely out of control. And Madre was like, I can't get in between them. I can't. It's too big. It's too big. This is my problem. This is what you're all feeding this system. She was pretty spectacular to watch, but she showed me that this is the problem right here. And that was sort of, after I was sort of guided into that energy, that blue energy space by the blue morpho.

There's a whole story behind that. But as the tractor beam was pulling me away from that high place, I said, well, what do I do? You know, this was beautiful. This was stunning to see this. And she said, look down. Look inside you now. And I looked down, and it was a kindergarten. And there was little beings running around, and there was one one was strangling another little kid who was red-faced.

And it was like the heart was being strangled by the mind. And then there was a raging kid at the corner. And then there was another one that was just completely out of control. And she said, this is your problem. work on this don't contribute to my problem my overall problem do your work and i i spoke down to the little kids like time out you know kindergarten teachers say time parents say time out and they stopped and i was liberated oh my god like they stopped and I said okay um you sit over there and you sit over here and we're gonna have story time and the whole system and then the whole time the whole rest of the the days I said I came up with this metaphor of the

school bus and so a little mind, little ego plus mind, they created this bond. Like ego was like, we're not good enough. We're not being recognized. And mind was like, I'm so smart. You know, we're not good enough. I'm so smart, you know, everything. And so something would happen

and then they would take over. They would try to take the steering wheel of the bus. Like, we're going this way. No, no, no, steering wheel of the bus. Like, we're going this way. And like, no, no, no, I'm driving the bus. I'll take it under advisement. Thank you for your advice. Thank you again, because you just said it again and again. They said it again. I've taken it under advisement. We may go that way. But there's a buffer. I'm not taking immediate action based on what anyone wants in this school bus and and we're

driving i'm driving and then they all calm down they're all sitting in the right seats and the whole system were like it fell and it was so nice and at one point they got all active again and i felt it was like a restaurant at that point. Like I was now a restaurant, right? And the dishwashing was happening and the food and there was like bickering and position like pecking order was happening because these entities had been liberated and they'd been seen individually for the first time. And I could see them clearly. And I said to my friend, my, my buddy Mateo, and I said, I'm going to see them clearly. And I said to my friend, my buddy Mateo,

and I said, I'm going to fire them all. You know, it's my restaurant. It's under new management. I'm firing them all. And he said, no, you can't. They live in your house. Give them different jobs. And so really, that's what it comes down,

the protector that's protecting the wound, that's doing the cycling. And they're all beautiful beings. They've all done a beautiful job to get you this far. And you can give them new jobs. And when you liberate the wound, the protector, which became really good at its job, becomes a superpower in the world. And as we roll people through medicines through

many practices or energetic healings to liberate from from those wounds instantly the protector becomes this amazingly capable and competent but clear not burdened superpower so we make jedis we create jedi after jedi after jedi and and guess what the jedis need the empire to develop their power right so we've got to otherwise that she would never flow to the point where they could do that they could do that so this craziness is again it's our evolutionary strategy and we now have the tools to make the Jedis, and the Jedis are on the return. It's not just Yoda with his funny Elizabethan English, you know, and this and that, but I mean, the Jedis are on the move now, and they're so strong, and they're so clear, and they're so beautiful, beautiful and they're everywhere they're coming out of the

millennials like crazy and the pre post millennials whatever those are called they're coming they're they're there they're they're all around and as we join hands with them as we we link to them you know what happened here last weekend was we had ralph his history project from Santa Cruz here. And these are like the mother that created the home birth movement. People who created the first organic farms in the United States. People who did civic action to block the San Lorenzo Valley freeway project so that we could preserve this valley against rampant developers who carpeted America with shopping malls and, you know, created this bland, crazy world. And these were the counterculture figures that brought humanity into civic government, into birth, into food, everything. I mean, they emerged largely from the Bay Area, but Santa Cruz was the center of it.

And, of course, the first acid test happening here, which the government of Santa Cruz dedicated a freaking bus stop as a memorial to. Right? So what happened was they wanted to have another meeting here to develop a new book, the third volume of Hip Santa Cruz History Project. I said, hey, there are these co-ops. And I met Valerie Clemmer, who runs the Manzanita Co-op in the Haight-Ashbury. And they're trying to bring back the power of the 60s and of liberation and the opening of consciousness that happened into the Summer of Love. And they're just attracted to that magnetically, and they're studying the history.

Why don't they come down and be here? So they were here all weekend with the elders, the guy with the 1964 Dodge Dart with push-button transmission, who is the largest collector of vinyl albums in the freaking world, of rock bands and that whole thing and the originals i mean the masters the press masters he was here and like i watched that this magic happened here of this cross-generational mixing of the old jedi masters true jedi masters i mean ralph abraham you know is one and the new jedi millennials and with all their tools they have all these tools that

they didn't have in 1967 the tools that we just you talk about on your podcast it's amazing so we mix the generations and we we do this over and over and over again we're powering up a really powerful generation that i i don't think anything can stop it i think we're powering up a really powerful generation that i i don't think anything can stop it i think we're going to create a beautiful world like charles eisenstein says we're going to create the beautiful world we all want to be a part of we are and we are doing that but isn't it true that i mean charles also says that that we live currently in an age of separation, as Uwe was saying. And I'm the program director for a cannabis compassion program. And, you know, in thinking about folks who are chronically ill, intractably ill, terminally ill,

these are folks who sadly are very far on the spectrum from what you're describing, Bruce, and what you're describing, Uwe. These somewhat, we'd like them to not be advanced techniques, but in some ways, for some people, they're very far from where their current reality is. And in dealing with, I mean, my window into cannabis and a lot of the concept of dialing is through my Crohn's disease, which manifested when I was quite young at the time of a major family trauma. So I don't think there's any accident. And I certainly feel informed personally that these traumas become held in the body. And for folks who are working through these issues, I think it was interesting because at the time that Bruce and I were talking about the little book of Endo, I think in reflecting back on that time, I think we were having some trouble

conceptually placing it within a frame to ultimately help it form as a book and a conveyance of the wisdom to a wider audience that was something that we could explore and talk about but but even me as hearing it as a new concept it's something that was like i gotta spend some time and wrap my brain around this. And I've been doing that. But I think where it came together was when in working with Uwe and working with patients, the light bulb was the fact that endotripping is really at one end of a spectrum. And at the other end of the spectrum are folks who are often desperately ill, physically, potentially mentally, spiritually. And what Uwe's forthcoming book that is coming out later this year,

which birthed the project that we're working on is a step-by-step process that is based in science that allows someone to dial in cannabis to address not only their needs, but also to optimize themselves from where they're starting from. And as Uwe, you put it so well earlier that with with opioids, it's that pathway out of that that you can move toward exogenous from exogenous to endogenous. But kind of, I would think a lot of the audience may get these concepts, but, you know, I'm a Gen Xer like Charles Eisenstein, and he and I have talked about this age of separation and how we move toward the more beautiful world, how we achieve what he calls interbeing, which is just like you said, and Kerry, you said it too, is that connection with the source and that ultimate connection. You know, how do we get to that primordial state of community once again, where we began? And

I think that, you know, I grew up and really came of age in the 70s and 80s. And while I was born in the late 60s at this time of great shift in our culture, ultimately, the 80s were quite a cynical time. And I think that's a bit of a hallmark of our generation. But there's also a great longing, I think, in people today. I hear people want solutions. And for people, moving through utilizing not only cannabis as a plant ally, but the basket of possibilities there to move out of addictive conditions and the Ferris wheel where they end up back where they started after treatment. To actually move toward a process where they're learning new techniques. Because I think in our society, we've labeled them woo. We've put them in a, these are, we may not criminalize them,

though we have with cannabis, but we have made them so they are socially unpalatable for people. But like you said, Bruce, that situation culturally is opening up, is opening up very quickly. And I think the cynicism is being transcended by the desire for a shift. And that's what's so exciting to me, that the work, whether it's around cannabinoids or the entourage effect with terpenes and terpenoids, and then bringing in those other techniques that work for the individual, there's just a lot of people who are very hungry for that recipe that is often very personal. Yeah, and it's also true for other patient population outside of that slice we

talked about in terms of addiction. There's especially chronic condition, there's like hundreds of chronic conditions in which engaging the endocannabinoid system through an external substance like, you know, the various chemotypes of cannabis or endotripping and using your own endogenous cannabinoids to therapeutically facilitate healing. But what chronic patients know is that the silver bullet approach that started when Western medicine, especially with the advent of antibiotics, was given, you know, this is how we're going to do it. We don't have to deal with issues around why I got gonorrhea. We don't have to deal with sexual guilt. We don't have to deal with the trauma of it. We just take a shot and boom, we're free and clear of the bacteria.

And then if you don't deal with the issue and if you don't deal with the underlying causes, it can happen again with your next partner and your next partner. And if it's not gonorrhea, it might be syphilis. And if it's not that, it may be other things until you get to look at, you know, the shadow of the mountain of Aphrodite. You know, it's like the issues that are at the core of sexual guilt, for example. And this is, you know, using an example of venereal diseases, but chronic patients know that. Chronic patients know that you can't just take a silver bullet and undo the core of what ails you at a deeper level. It's going to take some commitment. It's going to take some inner work.

It's going to take patient participation. You can't just, you know. And that's a shift. That's a big shift in our culture. Because doctors are still held as an authority figure and for many it's the doctor says do this and it's done unquestioningly now that's shifted from the 50s and the 60s when that was you know held sort of sacrosanct the doctor's doctor's orders so now people are you know i've seen it personally where my doctors used to, my gastroenterologists used to

examine me physically, but now my gastroenterologist often sees me across a desk. So we've even lost that connection. So for people who are tuning in to really the holistic scope of what the real pathway is, they see that they need to dial in their diet. They need to dial in their awareness of breath. They need to dial in their awareness of emotion and emotional self-control. And as you say, Uwe, which I think is wonderful, what is the quality of their self-talk? And that ultimately, I think there's more and more tools available. And I think the technology, as you've said, the technology that we've that that serpent's eye that we've made available to us is is a tool is a tool for for a quick spreading of this new awareness and of these ideas, these concepts, because they're just doing the work directly with patients. There's so many people who are suffering greatly and are just looking for the exit door just to find a path to, you know, toward homeostasis and ultimately to a better place. I want Uwe to unpack a little bit because, I mean, one question that I get frequently,

and I'm sure you do as well, especially being here in California, is like, where do I start? You know, and certainly we can unpack that. That question can go a lot of ways, but I want to talk specifically about cannabis for a second. And then where do I start with some of the endo tripping, right? But where would people start with cannabis? I know that's a blanket statement.

There is no one size fits all diet. There's certainly no one-size-fits-all cannabis approach. But what are some good pointers in the right direction for people? Well, in terms of combining endotripping, for those that are already on that side of the spectrum, those that want to use different techniques and cannabis to open up the space to perhaps look deeper. I think one of the really great tools to use is to ask yourself the question, what is the symptom? And just pick one for starters,

if you have more than one. What is the symptom that you're working on in this session, keeping you from doing and then ask yourself how do you feel about that and then use that feeling like the needle of a compass pointing north to see where it takes you and then go into the inside of that feeling and see what emerges as far as a memory that shows up, a little kid that's screaming, you know, a silent scream that has never been given the attention that it needs. All kinds of things can be revealed if you just do that. Ask yourself, how do I feel about what the symptom is keeping me from doing? And then follow that feeling to see where it comes from.

What's its point of origin? And that will get you into a pretty intense endo trip. And in terms of the physical characteristics of the various types of cannabis, most people who are in states where they need a prescription, they go to the doctor andary and they're overwhelmed with thousands of different strains and different forms and different versions of cannabis and different cannabis-containing products. So where do they start? given a prescription for a Zoloft or an Ambien or any other pharmaceutical, you go to a pharmacy and you know right where it is and you know how one pill is different from the next. And so I think one of the best ways to look at the different types of cannabis is using the distinction of chemotypes. And there's only three basic chemotypes of cannabis.

And by just knowing what the differences are and what the differences with regards to the effects that they produce will allow you to take agency over what kind of cannabis experience you want to have. And even if what's unique about cannabis is that there are several plant constituents that can produce similar effects, but by different means. And that statement will become important once you heard the three different types of cannabis. So let me just very briefly tell you what the three different chemotypes are. A chemotype one basically contains more THC than CBD. And those are the two prime cannabinoids that tend to occur in significant amounts

in most species of cannabis. And they create very different effects. A chemotype 2 contains a relative equal amount of THC and CBD. And a chemotype 3 contains way more CBD than it contains THC. THC, high amounts of THC will affect your cognition, will get you high, will get you stoned, can create fantastic exploratory inner journeys, endotripping, can also be responsible for the worst kind of anxiety or panic attack that you can think of. A chemo, there are very specific patient populations that

benefit from a chemo type 1 one and we already talked about one group of patients and that's um opioid addicts they tend to need high strain cbds in order to get the shakes to start to get the dysphoria there's also a patients who you know who have anorexia or cachexia due to HIV or AIDS progressions. And so to use a chemotype one in that context to increase the ability to keep food down, to actually enjoy food, to take the munchies to a therapeutic level, if you will. Those people need THC. And there's a number of other patient populations that need that particular kind. But what if you're one of them, one of those patients that need to operate heavy machinery

and you can't use THC, you can't have changes in cognition? Then chemotype 2 will present itself as a more balanced option with equal amounts of THC and CBD. CBD has shown to actually temper some of the cognitive shifts that occur with THC. A good balance can create a significant difference in the number of symptoms for patients suffering from multiple sclerosis. There are some pharmaceutical companies that have brought to the market a sublingual spray that's used by millions of patients suffering from multiple sclerosis. But there's also strains that have one-to-one ratios you can use to make cookies or to make chocolate or to smoke. And then there is the third one with very little THC and high amounts of CBD,

which will not produce any changes in cognition. They literally will not get you stoned, but what they will do is they will gently uplift your affect. Or in other words, they will gently expand you, creating a trend towards expansive emotional materials. So they will make it easier to unfold a sense of gratitude or happiness or a lightheartedness or a mirthfulness. But just knowing the difference, what does one do, what does two do and what does three do, makes a big difference in determining what kind of experience you want to have. And it's the first step in dialing in the type of cannabis that is getting you on your path towards optimal health, no matter where you are with your condition. If you use it just to expand your consciousness, to have an adventure, or if you're using it therapeutically because you're a patient who needs it,

it starts with making that discernment and also the dosage level so one of the issues that as a group became clear was in the cannabis industry there's this sort of completely irregularity in terms of known dosage, especially in edibles. And so people take two, three, four blueberries, and they have a terrible experience on edible cannabis for the first time, and they never go back. So the whole populations are opted out of the benefits, because they don't know the chemotype, and they don't know the actual dosage and the quality of the product itself. So one of the goals of Canikeys as a venture is to create literally an app that is a dialer.

It's basically the dose dialer, we call it, the dose dial app that you literally could go into a dispensary or to, if you're ordering online, if you can ordering online if you can order online you can literally dial the app and say i have these needs i have a sleep problem or i have a all these conditions that we're mentioning or i just uh you know have an anxiety issue and the app will literally dial in sort of a circular dial and take you to the right chemotype and start you low and then recommend the highest quality products that have been certified and tested so you have a pathway in and whether you're walking into the dispensary and the dispensary is using that or you're using that so you can approach it with caution and the best possible advice from these fantastic books that Uwe has put together

and the huge database that is behind all this, the Cankeys database. So there's a pitch for the venture. It's why we're sort of all sitting here as well, and we thought it would be of value to bring. So the venture's in its early phases, but we think it's very valuable for humanity because it not only creates the the step-by-step process so people can understand where to start and how to dial in with subsequent passes but with just say no and the war on drugs and kind of the the stigma that's been with cannabis, especially there's no shared language to actually engage for many people who've been on the sidelines. We've been lucky to have a

cannabis culture here in California, but we still have not gotten to the point where there's a shared language of healing, which is what Uwe especially put together over many decades of research. And that's one of the things that we're hoping for is to share, have that shared language that can allow relatively new folks who've heard and seen some of the science about what cannabis can do for their condition, and they can know where to start and engage in a dispensary and identify a product that can help. But the industry still has to move a bit too, because not only are there issues with

dosing for the patient, there's issues with inadequate dosing with products in the market. In other words, for cancer patients, there isn't necessarily products on the market that can give them the doses, higher doses that they need to actually be efficacious for their condition. But ultimately, this process of understanding chemotype as opposed to phenotype or strain, which will shift its chemotype profile from harvest to harvest, depending on condition, um, chemotype and sub ratio and understanding form dose entourage effect, and ultimately your own subjective experience to cannabis. That's, that's the process that people need to go through. And ultimately we're, we're trying to educate the greater society on what cannabis can do

from a point that will shift maybe people who are doubtful, which is the science. So we think it's an exciting possibility here to bring this shared language out to people, because I think that they're pretty curious. Yeah. And it's completely necessary. I mean, all of us know people that have gone too deep and then didn't enjoy the experience. And of all, my wife, the same, of all of our experiences with psychedelics and plant medicines, nothing is more scary than having too much cannabis. I mean, to both of us, there's no doubt. So for people that are in a place where it's legal or maybe not, and you roll the dice to have that experience go awry and to not revisit

something that can have such tremendous benefit to our health and wellbeing. Even at the physical level, you know, like, like that's something we, we've been talking a lot about the mental, emotional, and the pain body with Eckhart Tolle for people who aren't familiar with that language, A New Earth is one of my absolute favorite books. But the physical level, they talked about that in the culture high. There's a Japanese scientist at UCSF who was giving, and this ties into the opioid addiction, he was giving THC to terminally ill cancer patients to see if it could reduce their opiate use. And he found that it cut it at least in half.

And it was a big deal. And then, of course, with the old dogma attached to cannabis, all right, let's see how this is destroying the brain because we know THC makes you dumb. And as he looked at that, he realized like, oh, this is showing neuroprotective benefits. This is clearing out amyloid beta plaque in the brain. And where are their applications for that? Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, dementia. Like now we're opening up entire new fields of research with cannabis on a physical level of healing to the body. Previously, we thought maybe this is a

double-edged sword where i might feel a little bit better mentally and emotionally but that comes at a price now we we know that these things are are of a huge benefit to us and that there is some synergy with the plants there is some beautiful we're in this beautiful orchestra that whatever has created it has brought all this thing. These things are here on purpose, by design, you know, not by happenstance. If you think about it, cannabinoid receptors inside the human body evolved some hundreds of millions of years ago, and all mammals share them. We literally co-evolved with cannabis and with opioids too, except cannabinoid receptors are a few hundred million years younger. Opioids receptors are actually a little bit older in the big scope of things. But to date, we have up to

200 conditions for which engaging your endocannabinoid system shows therapeutic potential. And we talked about it earlier. There are some terpenes, which is just one of the steps of dialing in the ideal type of cannabis for you. You can use an isolated terpene and apply it for a number of different patient populations. The one we talked about earlier was that of foot nail fungus. It's a very stubborn condition, very pernicious, and it affects millions of people in the United States alone. And Western medicine has literally no cure for it. If it works, it may take a year or longer. And there's no guarantee that it isn't coming back two months later.

Plus you have the monetary expense, which is significant and potential adverse effects. studies that made it very clear that a single terpene that occurs in high concentration in cannabis named beta-caryophyllene, a little topical application for a couple of weeks can knock it straight out. And it literally costs pennies. It goes in deep systemically, even though you apply it topically. And it makes shifts in a fraction of the time of what traditional orthodox pharmacological approaches do. And so it's fascinating, the emerging field of the cannabinoid health sciences, of what they've brought to the table with regards to producing hope

in a field of chronic conditions where all you, up to now, you could have hoped for is managing with ever larger lists of pharmaceuticals. So it's a fascinating new field. And I think one of the reasons why it works so well on so many different patient populations is because it affects the body and the mind in such a way as to fortify your capacity for self-healing, which is in no small part due to the fact that it dials you in and endotrips you to a core issue. And once resolution happens at that level, then the external,

which is often just a message from the innate intelligence of your body. And depending on severity, either is an invitation or demand for change. Once you address that change inside of you at the, at its deepest level, the symptom literally loses its purpose for existence. And it, it, it will most likely quickly disappear. That is, to me, a fascinating potential as we look forward into providing more hope to people who would otherwise wouldn't have any.

So this next book is going to be titled what? It's going to be called Healing Yourself with Cannabis, Achieving and Sustaining the Effects You Want. We're thinking of maybe dialing in the effects you want, but we're not quite sure yet. It's coming out in October. October. Right.

That's amazing. Yeah. Very quickly. I. Right. That's amazing. Yeah. Very quickly. I like that. Thank you. I love it, guys. It's been excellent. And your app, this is a startup.

It'll be an app? That's going to take a little while longer? in process now and we are working to reform our database to to which will inform the app with the studies and some of the detail that that uva just you know beta caryophyllene studies studies on alzheimer's that show the neuroprotective qualities and the plaque reducing qualities so we're working on those. We were working to have a launch of the app around the time of the release of the book. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's the plan as it stands. So we're excited. I mean, we're working hard to make that happen

because we want to do this outreach in multiple forms, in book form, through the app, through a website, in various ways on that, because we feel it's important to reach all different types of populations, whether they've been through a portal where endotripping feels accessible to them, or whether they're someone who's been really on the sidelines with with psychoactives or cannabis some of those plant allies but they see the science they feel the culture shifting and they want to step in we want to reach all those people and so um yeah that multimedia approach is um we're excited but we're working on it that's awesome well i'd like to open up as my buddy kyle terriman says if there's uh any anything anyone else would like to add in before we wrap up please do if not we'll just

circle around and and see where uh people can reach you on social media websites podcasts A thread I'd like to add is how we can create group healing fields together. So through sharing this knowledge and also through supporting each other in holding our intentions and then having the integration of these experiences together and how we can create safe space and witnessing each other in our evolution. And I think that that is the way that we can help each other co-evolve. Thank you, Roz. Thank you, Roz. Hear, hear. Awesome. Well, let's go back around. We'll start with Uwe.

Where can people find you? Just go to the CannabisHealthIndex.com, and you'll have the data bank at your fingertips. It's free. It's the 1.0, so it's not what we just talked about, which will be the newer version of it, but it currently contains about 1,000 studies relevant to 180 or so different chronic conditions. And people are welcome to browse through it and see what they can learn.

And if it fits for them or for one or more people that they care about, and if it helps, it'll be great. And then, of course, if you want to shoot me an email, just click on the email button and and you go straight to my uh my home thanks for having us yeah roz roz you can find razma at www.raz.ma that's the portal K-A-R-I-B-A-R-R-O-N. And there's a wealth of information on there to show how you can track causes of diseases on many different levels and how to release those. And also another field of work that I do called Learning Enhancement Acupressure Program. It's a way to track which neural pathways are blocked, and it's really effective at helping children with learning disabilities and adults. Yeah, so that's me. Bruce?

I'm easy uh um www.damer.com or bruce at damer.com and joe rogan warned me not to read my email address on the air but i just did it again i'd love it if you'd listen to the levity zone podcast um the title of this came from two sources one was from terence terence mckenna our dear departed bard who said he talked about novelty all the time novelty novelty and one night i said to him terence we have enough novelty We need more levity. And another source of this was Sasha Shulgin. Because even when you looked in his eyes before he died, when this beautiful blue eyes of this amazing alchemist,

this explorer into space of the mind using chemical friends, you know, that he had synthesized. He was the ratchet through the conscious field like humans had never done. And I always looked in his eyes even when he couldn't look back when he was blind. And there was such levity, a deep pool of levity and joy in Sasha Shulgin. So the podcast is in honor of those two fellows, levity zone podcast. Two legends. Tune in, folks. I would say.

The best way to find my work right now is through, if you're on Facebook, to search for Budding Compassion Network, which is we've recently, we were formerly the East Bay Cannacompassion Program, serving low-income patients in the Bay Area. But I'll note that also since the passage of Prop 64 and the legalization of recreational cannabis in California, one unintended consequence of that was to pretty much erase the ability for compassion programs to serve vulnerable populations, whether they be low-income folks, veteran groups, intractably or terminally ill children or adults. And so we've joined with six other programs to form the California Compassion Coalition, which also has a Facebook

page, to work with legislators and regulators to create compliant pathways where we can share donated cannabis and cannabis products to these vulnerable communities. And in some cases, make the medicines that are unavailable to treat some of these conditions, particularly some of the cancer conditions and some of the seizure disorders, especially seizure disorders in children. Exactly. So look us up at Budding Compassion Network. We're working on our website right now as we relaunch. You can message me there. And we're hopeful to have a compliant pathway by the end of this year.

Awesome. Thank you all so much. And it's been an absolute pleasure and an honor. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. This is your first salon podcast. That's right.

Very cool. Thank you guys thank you thank you guys for tuning in hope you really enjoyed the show and i hope you live in a place where thc is legal because there's a lot of cool shit going on with that plant in general and if you've had good experiences or bad in the past, doesn't really matter. There's a right way and a wrong way to do anything. I encourage approaching these medicines with reverence and respect. And in doing so, you can get the most out of them. With that, always start low, work your way up. If you're a first timer, you wouldn't have a handle of Jack Daniels to the face. You'd start slow, respecting the power of that spirit,

the spirits of Jack Daniels. So do the same with cannabis. And if you do so, you'll find it can be an amazing ally for pain, sleep, anxiety, you name it. And if you don't live in a state where THC is legal, that's cool too, because CBD does a ton of good stuff and you can feel it, even though it's non-psychoactive. Much, much, much to be discovered with CBD, THC, and all the other cannabinoids that go into the wonderful plant of cannabis. Check out my man, Bruce Dahmer and everybody who joined us today. Thank you guys for tuning in. Take care.