Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #52 Nick Pineault

Episode Date: September 24, 2018

Nick “The EMF Guy” Pineault (*like the wine*) is the #1 bestselling author of The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMFs and an advocate for safe technologies. Through his unconventional approach blending humor, science, and common sense, he’s becoming a leading voice on the topic of electromagnetic pollution and how it affects our health. He’s also launched the Electrosmog Rx online professional-level EMF course in collaboration with Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, with the goal of educating health professionals worldwide on how to address EMF-related symptoms and minimize their patients’ EMF exposure. You can find more about Nick at TheEMFGuy.com Nick Pineault drops by to take a deep dive into how advances in technology are affecting people and what's happening to our health as we run the largest experiment in human history, and what we can do to mitigate the exposure to EMF.   NIck Pineault on Facebook YouTube Buy the Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMF's nontinfoilemf.com Kyle Kingsbury on Twitter and on Instagram Get 10% off at Onnit by going to Onnit.com/Podcast              Onnit Twitter        Onnit Instagram Show Notes Nick's EMF course for health practitioners: http://electrosmogrx.com/ Indian 2012 review which shows 600 out of 900 ish papers on EMFs demonstrate biological effects on humans, plants, insects, animals: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258521207_Impacts_of_radio-frequency_electromagnetic_field_RF-EMF_from_cell_phone_towers_and_wireless_devices_on_biosystem_and_ecosystem-A_review Belly Armor products: https://bellyarmor.com/ Safe Sleeve cases: https://safesleevecases.com/ Defender Shield cases: https://www.defendershield.com/ Nick's podcast on Ben Greenfield: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/biohacking-podcasts/the-real-research-on-wifi-health-cell-phones-dirty-electricity-more/ Dr. Martin Pall's YouTube presentation on how EMFs affect us via VGCCs (calcium channels) activation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RIskTMLV40 Dr. Martin Pall's 2013 paper on EMFs & VGCCs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/  

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That's me, your host. And today we have an awesome guest, Nick Pino. Nick Pino hails just like George St. Pierre from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. And he has a bit of an accent, but he is a little bit easier to understand than GSP. And just a wealth of knowledge. You know, I first heard this guy on the Ben Greenfield Fitness Show. He's been on Paul Cech's YouTube channel and also has done some work with Dr. Mercola and a number of other

health professionals that I look up to and admire and learn from. His book, The Non-Tinfoil Guide to EMF, basically cuts through all the BS when it comes to something that you would think is woo-woo, but really it's not. It's an issue. When I was talking with Tate Fletcher, who was just on the podcast, he mentioned that we're kind of in this long running experiment, which is completely true. What they prove for safety standards is pretty remarkable because that's holding the phone away from your face. It's not actually touching it to your skin. And they're looking at fairly large individuals rather than children or people that actually hold the phone to their ear. And there's just so much that goes into this. But what's cool is that it's not a horror story. It's not a, oh man, this is why we have cancer

and we're all going to die. It's about what are the ways that we can reduce and minimize the risk. And the truth is there's a number of science. There's a number of studies that have come out and shown us that these things do have real world consequences and on the DNA level, on the cellular level. And there are ways that we can go about fixing it. Nick Pino takes a deep dive into all things EMF. Check it out. But we're here with, do you go by Nick or Nicholas? Both is fine. But is fine somehow when i started uh being online i'm like uh nicholas yeah there's nick cage but even people call him nick cage you see i'm like yeah this is more like uh american friendly nick so i went by nick when i went online somehow i don't know i like people call me Now people call me Nick. And the last name, Pinot? Is that what you say? It's Pinot, like the wine. Pinot.

Pinot. Pinot Grigio. Exactly. I love it. And you're from Montreal, Quebec, Canada. That's correct. Yep. That's awesome. There's a little bit of George St. Pierre in your voice.

Yeah, but he's horrible at the English accent. So I hope I'm a little bit better. You're better. You're better. That's what I said. Slightly. Thank you. Slightly.

Well, we're here to, you have a book. And I was first put onto your book on the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast. And then Dr. Mercola. And then, of course, our friend Paul Cech, who just did work with you. And Paul got on my ear. You were definitely on my radar. One of the things that, I mean, when I took over this podcast, it was mostly fitness-based. And as director of human optimization it's all things

physical mental emotional spiritual that we have to work on and um you know everybody thinks has this mindset of what else can i add to my life what else can i bring in more more more and you know one of the concepts that bruce lee would talk about is it's not so much an adding it's the refining of things, right? It's the, some of the taking away the things that are bad and removing some of the harmful practices in your life. Right. And so your book, the non-tinfoil guide to EMS is absolutely perfect because it's something we don't think about. And it, I mean, I rarely think about it. I mean, I first got turned on to the potential hazards of EMF from Dr. Mercola, who you're familiar with.

He's on the cover of your book and a lot of different people. And really, you know, Tate Fletcher was on this podcast and he joked, but he said it, you know, half serious, like we're in like a long running experiment right now. Right. We've never done this before. People just assume because this shit's legal like oh well it you know the government's looking out for us the government's looking out for us they didn't do that with ddt they didn't do that with you know monsanto's glyphosate yeah asbestos yeah uh

aspartame is a is a fake sweetener is a is a real problem for people so you know we have this idea that we go through life and it's okay. And even on the drug issue, like alcohol is not a drug. Well, yeah, it's a drug just because it's legal. Doesn't mean it's not, you know? So like there's, there's many, many places we can point this out. And obviously when you start getting into topics like this, it can be, there's a bit of that, you know, maybe there's some conspiracy theory stuff. Right. And so I think that the title of the book is perfect because you're not going to have to put on your tinfoil hat for this. Yeah. Well, thank you. That's exactly it. So I'm,

I mean, I'm just an investigative health journalist, self-proclaimed to be honest. I have a bachelor's in communications that many years ago I started writing online. I just have a curiosity. When I dove into this topic, I realized, damn, this is so ridiculous. Like the safety standards and everything that I read, I'm like, no, I cannot believe that. I cannot believe how silly the standards are that I had to become like the EMF guy I spent the last two years talking about. I never expected to do that in my life. But the reality is that when you look at the way like cell phones are tested, for example, right there, they use a mannequin head. That's the equivalent of a six, two men, 250 pounds, I think something like that. That's based on one military man that

they took. Well, you test the cell phone next to this mannequin head and you look at the temperature increase inside the brain. And then you come up with the phone SAR, specific absorption rate. But if it were in a children, well, they don't test it in children. So you're like, wait a minute. Well, I see four-year-olds with cell phones. So right there, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Undeveloped brain, much smaller, softer skulls. Exactly. And what about, it's actually 97 percent of the cell phone users that are smaller than the mannequin they use so what gives i'm like i just read these facts i'm like okay this is ridiculous last time the the safety standards were updated by the fcc in the u.s

1996 i'm like uh well guys maybe it's been like technology has changed since like the big Nokia that weighted 100 pounds. So I just don't get it. So I dove in deeper and it turns out that, well, there's a lot of science showing that this stuff is probably not good for us. And unfortunately, this is society, of course, we're excited about technology. We want to evolve like, oh, 4G, 5G, 6G, right? We want to move forward and it will bring forward so many good things

in, in, in our life. Like you can contact any, like I can look at my, like yesterday I can look at my son. I was on my cell phone. I still use my cell phone even as an author on, on a book like that, but I use it less. I use it differently, you know, because I understand the risks. And the way people use it right now, they don't understand it. And the safety standards are completely broken. So something that happened in 2017

is that the French government, or it's actually an organization, part of the French government, had tested the cell phones without a separation from the body. That's something I didn't mention is that they tested at five to 15 millimeters from the head of the mannequin somehow, as if someone talks like that on their phone. Like no one does that. Like you would look stupid. Some people use speakerphone, but a lot of people use it like right there. And if you're not using it right there, you're using it like in my pocket here,

in my pocket here, in my back pocket, in my bra if I'm a woman. So it's near the body. So they looked at, okay, the SAR is supposed to be a maximum of 1.6 watts per kilogram. That's just the unit of measurement. Well, when they, and that's with a degree of separation. So the French said, okay, well, what happens when you put it near the body? Because once you get even that degree of separation can make a huge difference in how much radiation is absorbed by your body. And it turns out that 90% of all cell phones that were tested went over the limit. 90%. And that's like the tests were ended in 2017. So you've got iPhone 5, all the best selling cell phones in the world go over the limit. There's no denying these independent tests are online. The French government is almost silent about the issue and no one talks

about it because of course, like there's a lot of money involved, but this is like factual stuff. And the, the, the entire thing was, uh, I, I interviewed the guy, Mark, uh, Arazi from France. He's a doctor and he looked at these tests and like, guys, we, we need to get this out to the public. So the more I look into it, the more I find, you know what the topic is not only not tinfoil, it's a societal, like, endeavor that we need as a society to look like, okay, guys, maybe we can have cell phones, but let's set them on children because children use them anyway, right? So if the standards were realistic, maybe the phones were, would be a little bit slower to connect but at least users will be

safer like this is what I just don't get and of course it's they say follow the money it's like it's unfortunate but that's the fact that there's a lot of money to be made and the more the companies just like tobacco the more their status quo they wait until they change, the more money they make. So it's not a conspiracy, it's just business. And if I were a cell phone company, I wouldn't change anything. And that's not necessarily ethical, you decide, like, it's really the question in a society, are corporations the ones that should self-regulate themselves if the government has failed to do so, which is the case? Or do you simply wait until the FCC updates their standards? Like if I were the CEO of Apple and Samsung, maybe I would

be like, well, that's not my responsibility. Like I will update my cell phone when the government and I don't know, like the World Health Organization tells me to update it. Yeah. I think there's so much to that. And really what it comes down to is kind of one of the concepts that I have too, is that no one else is going to fix you, right? No one else is looking out for your best interest. So you have to do that. You have to take this upon yourself and make health your number one concern.

That's Paul Cech 101. Sooner or later, your health will be your number one concern. So don't put it off on the side and act like it's no big deal and that requires some bit of investigating and thankfully we've got guys like yourself and different experts that we've had on the show that really go down the rabbit hole on specific issues um everyone's exposed i mean talk about some of the different we're talking about cell phones right now talk about some of the different common things that we come across in our house. And what are the potential issues?

What are the most damaging? You know, like obviously you were talking about sleeping last night at the W right over a Wi-Fi router. Exactly. So that's the W Hotel. Let me walk through like this virtual tour of my hotel room yesterday. And I think that that exactly gives you

how not to do it when it comes to wireless communications. a virtual tour of my hotel room yesterday. And I think that that exactly gives you like how not to do it when it comes to wireless communications. First, if you turn everything at night, wireless signals, this is micro-radiation or also called radio frequency. There are several and several studies that link melatonin reduction, increase in adrenaline, all sorts of different effects, biological effects.

Fight or flight response. Fight or flight response. You don't want that during your sleep, right? You want to recover. You want to be fresh for the next day. And you're staying at the W, 13th floor. It was beautiful. The service was perfect.

But then what do you do as a company, W? They're like, we want connectivity. So they're excited. Well, they put the router under the bed. So this is like if you had one spot not to put a Wi-Fi router, which is the biggest source, the closer you are to the source, the more exposure you get, and the more your sleep is going to be disrupted.

Well, you don't want to put it under the bed. You want to put it in the closet right when you enter the room. It would have been fine or finer like the emissions would be a fraction of that but so i i was walking around with this little guy it's my emf meter i showed you a little bit this is the env rd10 so uh of course i'm the emf guy i gotta uh check the room and i'm like like ghostbusters you got your little meter it does look like that like if someone would have caught me would be like, this is- Like Ghostbusters. You got your little meter out. It does look like that. Like if someone would have caught me, it would be like, okay, this guy is like a bit nuts.

But I wanted to check the hotel room and I ended up recording a YouTube video that I'm going to post in a couple of weeks because I'm like, shit, this is all in the red in this room. What is happening here? So there was a router under the bed. I had to literally like take off the mattress. Sorry, W. I hope I

didn't charge my card. I don't know. I didn't want to do damage, but I just had to dismantle the freaking bed to turn off the router because all the wires were hidden because the wires are not pretty and they just wanted to do it. They didn't think twice about it, but on the pillow, it was in the red. So it means to me just a lot of disruption. My sleep is going to be horrible. This morning, I'm recording this podcast. I need to be sharp. I don't want that. Like I'm closing the curtains.

I want blackout. I want to take melatonin. I want to take my supplements. I want to do yoga. I don't know, like I have an entire routine and then you put a Wi-Fi router under my pillow. Not a good idea. But it wasn't the only source.

There was also these cordless phones. So these wireless phones, even if they're not in use, the ones with base stations- And this is like a regular, like hard lines, like phone that you would have at a house. Well, if you had a hard line and it was corded, like these old school phones. Cordless, cordless phone, house phone.

Cordless house phone, you would get these levels and the base station usually is is the is like the thing that you put in it on to recharge to recharge that's the biggest exposure in vegas it was incredible the exposure and it was at the uh the aria i think that was staying last year and i had to wrap the entire thing with actual tinfoil like aluminum paper and it it did reduce the level thing with actual tinfoil, like aluminum paper, and it did reduce the level. So that's one way you can like, you can literally, if you're someone who travels a lot, I would travel with like aluminum paper. And if there's one phone like that, that you cannot unplug for some reason, I would cover it up. And yes, this parts look crazy.

You remove it before leaving the room, please. But yeah, so that's just an example of like poor design. So what I did is simply, I unplugged everything. I, yes, I had to dismantle the bed. It was a bit crazy. I recorded a video. I made fun of myself, like going overboard. But then the levels in the room were very low and my night was okay.

And there's no way to tell, okay, wouldn't my night be very horrible? This is actually another real aura ring. This is just the placeholder because I'm waiting for mine. But if I had the aura, that's the Gen 2. Yeah. So if I had the aura, I could test like, okay, how well is my sleep when I sleep with a Wi-Fi router under my bed or not, right? And I think most people would see a difference and everyone has a different way of responding to the signals also. Like I know my sensitivities. I know that when we were in a certain apartment with my wife last year, I slept right next to the router. I didn't understand the danger. I was just writing the guide and I slept

horrible this entire summer. Once I started on unconnecting the wifi at night, just this one step that everyone can do at home. You can put it on a Christmas light timer and then it goes off at 10 PM, goes on at 5 AM or when you wake up and everyone in the household will sleep better. That's usually what people report to me after two or three days. That's very common. So my thought like, okay, does Wi-Fi has an effect on your health? That would be a question. Show me the studies, Nick. Well, imagine that you can sleep better, just that like sleep better, 12%, 20%, 100%. I don't know how to quantify it. It depends on everyone, but with the Oura Ring, you could tell,

well, it means a lot if you compound this effect over years, right? So turning off everything at night is pretty important. Another thing is your own devices. Like if I had my cell phone right next to my head, I'm not touching it or anything, but it's connecting to the tower. Same thing. It's the equivalent of the Wi-Fi router. The Wi-Fi router was way worse, honestly, but it is also disruptive. So putting it on airplane mode, turning it off completely, or if you expect a call, putting it like far away from your body as possible, maybe 10 feet, maybe six feet, the other side of the room, and you can still use it as your alarm clock if it's in airplane mode, it's totally totally fine and you will sleep better. So just doing a sweeping of your

own bedroom and figuring out, okay, everything that could be Bluetooth or wireless or anything can potentially add to this smog and impair my sleep. So if you're working on your health on so many levels, why would you have these things on at night if you're not actively using them, right? It's just needless exposure. And that's a factor that's invisible unless you're a bit crazy like me and invest in those and you miss it. And you cannot figure out why maybe you were in Vegas and you're like, oh, I slept horrible. Was it the drinks or the late night? Or was it the cordless phone that was literally like a router right next to your head? Because the organization that put the hotel room together didn't get it because

mostly no one does these days. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a newer topic to a lot of people. I like this idea that there are various things that we can do to help mitigate. You know, like I would talk on speakerphone if I don't have my headphones, but I have wired headphones that go in, you know, rather than Bluetooth. And I can talk on those. There's a little mic there at my chest. And I think that's probably my favorite way if I'm going to have an extended conversation with people to talk. Obviously, in the car, it connects Bluetooth, so it's hands-free, so there's an issue there. But this idea, like when I went through Ben Greenfield's house, his whole house is wired. He, all of his lights are low blue light emitting. Yeah. They've got the blue blocker glasses for TV time.

If they're going to watch TV at night, things like that. But he's certainly, you know, one of the guys that's on the cutting edge and certainly looks into all these things that have to do with, with health. I wonder for, for most people out there who really, they're not going to get rid of their wifi. They're not going to, you know, obviously nobody's getting rid of their cell phones, but what are some of the steps other than just like you mentioned airplane mode at night, things like that, having a timer, a Christmas timer for Wi-Fi. What are some other ways that we can help mitigate EMF damage? Sure. If you can help it, having your

computer on ethernet cable, if you're using let's see you you have an office and you and you can invest a couple a couple not even not even three hundred dollars have an electrician maybe have an ethernet cable and that's something i walked around the the on it offices here and and it's beautiful and it's incredible but as i told you if you're in front of a computer and you work on wi-fi all day but you you're in one place, you're not using your laptop around, well, it's a good idea to have an Ethernet cable because most people report, like, I feel less exhausted at the end of the day if I work on Ethernet. Like, I can see the difference, but that's me.

Maybe you won't. But something is still happening on a biological level. It's oxidative stress. It's something that's affecting your body, whether you like it or not. And some people are more prone to this damage. If you're already extremely exhausted, chronic fatigue, you have certain conditions.

I have also an EMF course for medical doctors and health practitioners that I helped develop. And it's bad. People that, like, we're not talking about human optimization here, but people that are already like chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, ALS, Parkinson's, they have, let's say, nervous system disorders, then their nervous system is not ready to handle that stuff. So when you put them in a low EMF environment, they get way better. Like it's ridiculous how much they are calmer

in an environment without distress. So they are more prone to this kind of stuff. So depending on your level of health, you might want to look into how sensitive you really are. And a good way to do that is to go away for a while. Three to seven days, go camping. If you feel like amazing, you're like, okay, I'm a new human being, literally like my sleep. Like I used to wake up at 3am every night in the city. Now I don't wake up like I have the deepest sleep. I have a sense of purpose. I feel incredible. No anxiety. Well, there's something wrong, not about your body

necessarily per se, but let's reframe this. There's something wrong about the environment back at home in Austin, in Montreal, in New York City, downtown LA. There's something that's ailing you. Is it the air quality, the stress, your job, your wife? Hopefully not. But I mean, people you hang out with, there are so many factors, right? Poll check 101, everything, like the holistic view of your life. But electro smog is also a factor you get a count in.

So for example, if at home you had this Wi-Fi router under your pillow for years, well, first removing the sources and seeing, okay, do I feel better? If so, well, maybe you can go a little bit further and have your ethernet cable as your computer and then see, wow, oh yeah, actually I'm 10% healthier. Well, take it. Like it's all these things, like I still have alcohol. I still have dessert. We choose to hurt our bodies and that's just okay or else you're probably kind of going crazy with this. It's the same thing. But do you have, for example, to have a four-hour conversation in your office on your cell phone or can you

have a corded landline and have it redirect when you're there? Simple thing, cost 20 bucks. Well, it's just a habit. You're talking, right? Same thing when it comes to talking to the cell phone differently, creating distance from your body. And you mentioned it. I think if you only handle your cell phone differently and then your Wi-Fi router at night, it's huge. These are incredible steps towards reducing your exposure right there. If people just did that, there would be a very, I think a lot of people would see a very different reaction in their health overall. Yeah.

So you touched on a critical piece that I like to mention a lot, that all stress is stress in the body. So whether that's emotional stress from your wife or your boss or food stress from eating shitty food, you know, going off the diet when you're out on the town, too much alcohol, it could be overtraining even in the gym where you're working out really, but pushing the envelope a little too far for too long. Whatever those cases are, the body doesn't compartmentalize that. It doesn't file it under, oh, here's physical stress because I squatted. And here's a lack of sleep stress.

It's going to go in the lack of sleep department. You know, like it's all fucking one stressor. And the fight or flight response that happens from that creates a cascade of issues for the body, higher reactive oxygen species, higher inflammation throughout, which could be the cause of most disease. And when we unknowingly contribute to that through lack of knowledge and lack of mitigation

of these EMFs, we basically are adding on this consistent stressor. And in all things in life, when we have stress, we want it to be acute. We want whatever the thing is to be short, quick, and in a one little tight bubble, right? The stress that becomes an issue is when it's chronic, when it's over time. And there's no doubt we're not moving away from cell phones. We're not moving. We will have 5G towers very quickly here. So that means our cell phones will be as fast as Wi-Fi without Wi-Fi. And Wi-Fi, of course, by that time will be much faster and much stronger and much more powerful. So the need for this is increasing, right? And the need for this knowledge is increasing, but the need for us to help mitigate this stuff is increasing because across the board,

in most modern cultures, we're getting sicker. We're not getting healthier. Exactly. Well, if you look at the, it's another fact that maybe research is tough. It's how much has our exposure to microwave radiation, let's say cell phones, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth, increased since 1950? Take a guess. Is it a thousand percent? Thousand percent. It's actually a quintillion times. So quintillion is a lot of zeros.

I'm not even sure how high that goes. It's a billion billions, basically. Fuck. So yeah, so this is our increase and it will not get better. In Austin, here in downtown Arias, you have some 5G towers that are being tested. The small cell technology,

it's all over the place. And again, it's because the safety standards allow it. They're like, well, we're within the standards, all fine and dandy. Let's go. Let's have faster technology. If I'm a user, I don't know the risks. I don't care. I'm excited. And my cell phone is going to be a beast. I can download 4K videos and streaming. Everything is cool, but that's just not what is happening. So yes, it will increase, I don't know by how much, before they realize, well, we got to design that in a healthier way. And there are a lot of things that could be made to the technology to make it better.

Tomorrow morning, or it would cost companies a couple of millions, like shielding the user and have the antenna emit more towards the exterior of your cell phone and not towards your body. It's a design thing, but maybe it will require having a camera that's a little bit less because everything is tiny, right? It's a design requirement that we could put. When it comes to cell phone towers, we can make sure that people that live right next to a cell phone tower are shielded somehow. Like we shield their apartment for free if it's part of the deal. I don't know. But as a society, we can make it safer. But this is not the direction it's going towards. So because of that, it makes me say, okay, well, you gotta work on your own exposures a lot

because let's face it, I step out this gym and I turn off my cell phone and decide never to use Wi-Fi or Bluetooth again and participate in this crazy technology, I'm still exposed. I'm exposed every living second I'm in a city. If I go in the countryside, I might be exposed too. There are 4G towers everywhere. So, and eventually in the next years, and that's

something that's concerning to me. Of course, I wrote a freaking book on the, I spent all my time thinking about that stuff. Sometimes it's just overwhelming. It's like, shit, what are they doing? Like you've got eight to 10 companies or corporations that are working towards global internet. And that's a good idea. Again, very exciting. So it means that every square inch of the planet is gonna be like beamed with high power satellites that they're gonna install.

Like I think it's 30 to 40 miles outside the planet Earth or don't call me on this. I don't know the astrophysics They're going to install, I think it's 30 to 40 miles outside the planet Earth. Don't call me on this. I don't know the astrophysics and where. They put arrays of satellites and different companies on Star. You've got Apple that wants to put in the stratosphere balloons. And that's actually a Google Loon project. I think that Facebook might be another company that's involved with another project. So all these corporations are like, well, let's give every human being on the planet

a free internet connection. That's awesome. That's like, whoa, that's like a philanthropist idea to have someone in the middle of nowhere, be able to communicate with people they love, have access to all this knowledge, human knowledge. But what are the downsides? What if the signal is not safe? Well, now you're like slattering the planet with it. It has consequences for everyone. So let's hope the safety standards are not from 96, right? Let's hope they're up to date and we understand because now we're talking about something that can affect the entire planet at once, which is already the case.

If you pollute here in Austin, it might go to China and vice versa, right? It's a global thing. So as a society, if we move forward to these things and give internet to everyone, I better hope that there are better safety standards, but that's not going to happen very soon. So this is why in the meantime,

I offer, when I wrote the guide, I'm like, okay, this is what you got to do now and hope for the best and talk about it. Because let's face it, like if users only demand speed and not health, well, the companies aren't going to follow. So it's also a matter of asking companies to be accountable for that and saying, well,

I put my phone on airplane mode. For example, you have this night shift mode on your iPhone now. Well, that's because users said, well, I look at my cell phone at night and I feel super stimulated. I don't sleep as good. And Apple responded. Some people developed apps before that you had to jailbreak your phone. And before that, Apple did it officially.

Some people were doing it via hacking their phones and whatever. But users eventually demanded it. And Apple was like, OK, well, we're going to make it a feature. This is how it works. This is democracy. Like Apple responded to a need, but unless they're in need, unless people say, well, like a hotel W, I don't want a router under my pillow. Once they have enough complaints, they're going to put it elsewhere. They're going to invest for the tech

guys to come in and they're going to invest a couple thousand dollars that it costs to make these necessary changes. If no one talks, well, we're just going to do business as usual. Yeah. Yeah. What are some, I think I heard you talking with Greenfield about different cases potentially that people could have. So if you were going to, you know, you're holding, I know that Dr. Mercola, he takes it a step further. He won't even hold his phone in his hand. He uses a selfie stick to make text messages and things like that. I'm not going to be doing that anytime soon,

but are there good cases like Defender, different things like that, that can help mitigate some of the EMF? Defender Shield is good. It's definitely good. This one is called Safe Sleeve. So basically you want a phone case, if it were completely enveloped in an EMF blocking material, it would essentially emit more usually because the phone will be forced to ramp up its

radiation, right? If you're in an office environment, if you're in a staircase, if you're in a spot where you got one bar out of five signal bars, your cell phone emits sometimes up to a thousand times more. Like it emits a lot and it heats and you can feel the battery draining. That's why, because the phone is like, oh, I want to connect with the same speed as before. You don't want that. You want a phone case that has blocking materials and that allows the radiation to go by the side. So that way you're holding it, you get less. And especially if you put it in your back pocket or here,

I don't advocate keeping it on your body, even with a phone case, but I'd rather have people have a phone case than not. Another one I've heard good things about is the Pong, P-O-N-G. It works a little bit different, but it seems like it's working also. So these three companies do great products. Maybe there are other out there, but the cheap stuff on Amazon, I wouldn't trust like, oh, this is a super EMF blocking case, 1999 from China. I don't know. Maybe your phone's going to emit more. And unless you have a meter to measure it, you're only

taking their word for it. So you don't want to be doing that. So that's one thing you could do as well. Another use of technology that I think is not ideal is using a laptop on the lap, right? If you're a man, there was one small trial, was it in Spain? I cannot recall. It was just a couple of men that tested their sperm before and after laptop exposure. Four hours of laptop use reduced their motility and their sperm. I don't know if it was a sperm, let's say sperm quality by 50%, four hours. Well, men can recover after a couple of weeks, their entire like sperm supply, but it's also your testosterone. I mean, there's other things than just sperm production going on there. It's your testosterone,

it's your entire endocrine system. So what is it doing long-term? What is it doing to your prostate health, bladder health? I mean, I can only imagine what if you're a woman? I mean, ovaries, all their hormones are created there too. So having a laptop on your lap, unfortunately, it's not the right use. And you can have a shielding blanket, one that Jen, my wife, used throughout the pregnancy. It's called belly armor, and you can actually use it just fine if you're a man. So a lot of Silicon Valley executives actually like purchased from this company that is essentially shielding for pregnancy. But this is a blanket that you put, and then you put your laptop. And again, you're reducing exposure.

But the best use is just on a desktop. But a lot of people tell me, Nick, I will not do that. I will work on my sofa. I love it. I'm an entrepreneur. Fine, but use stuff that can shield you. So Belly Armor, I can vouch for them. Again, there are a lot of products out there that do not seem to work or cheap knockoffs. I wouldn't go with those. And I would really look at like their test results and whether they have like a third party testing to let the products do what they're intended to do. Yeah. Yeah. And if somebody

did want to take the deeper dive, you have a couple of different devices that you've brought in here for home use. Can you dive into those a little bit and the costs associated? Yeah, definitely. So the ENV-RD10 and Viro-RD10, I think it's the best meter for someone

who has no idea what we're talking about. They're like, oh, well, I want to test my environment. So this is just like what we could call a sweeping meter. It won't give you very precise numbers, but you don't care. You're just looking for like the red zones. You're like, oh, does this emit? Yes. You can, for example, something I told you before recording, an Xbox 360, and I think all Xbox consoles and all PlayStation consoles, they emit 24-7 even if they're connected to an Ethernet cable, which I did at home, and even if you turn them off. So you've got to unplug them. But there's no way to know if this radiation is being emitted needlessly

unless you have this thing. So this thing, you open, you have three different modes. The first one is the RF. So you can look for Bluetooth, wifi, cell phones, even cell phone towers. If for example, you worry about a cell phone tower, that's something a lot of people tell me, Nick, I have a cell phone tower right in front of my apartment. Will I die from cancer? It's like, I get these emails. I'm like, well, you gotta have, like, if you're in the red zone in the middle of your apartment, you might be in trouble, but how good is your health? And if you're like,

it's crappy, like, I don't know what's happening with me. I've got chronic fatigue. I cannot recover from anything. I feel anxious. Well, maybe the tower is beaming in your condo. In that case, you got to go further than this thing, but at least you could detect that something is happening. It's not just in your mind. You're not just going crazy. You might, but you might not. It's like something invisible that's happening. So sweeping around with this guy is really useful. The other one is the Cornet. This one is the 88T. I think it's advanced. It's more like for people maybe who read the book and in the book, I give some examples of this meter. It's a bit more advanced, more complicated.

They want to go further. Maybe it's for them. But mainly if they're like a health practitioner, health coach, I know you have a lot of those following you. I think the best step for them is more taking my course. It's called ElectroSmugRx. And I think it's better because it's the short version of like

how to apply this stuff that I talk about in the book. But when it comes to coaching clients or even seeing patients, if they're a doctor and like, what are the health effects? What, there are, there's a fraction of the population that gets very sick in Electrosmog. And that's not new. It's like these studies have been made way back

and it's not recognized. A lot of people, psychiatrists these days or doctors think it's psychosomatic and oh no, electro sensitivity is all in the head. And you probably saw, if you watched A Better Call Soul, the entire conclusion of that is that this character is was electro sensitive but then it was probably all is in his head and i think it was horrible to say that in in a tv show unfortunately but i don't think it's accurate some people get

rashes like you cannot you cannot make this stuff up i think the I think when they try to do studies that are provocation studies, they're in a very fake setting. It's not, and they're looking for an acute effect. Like, okay, can you feel this phone? Okay, can you not feel it? It's not how it works. Some people that are electro sensitive that I know,

they get in a city and they can last three days. After that, they start crashing. They get in the countryside, they're totally fine. after that they start crashing they get in the countryside are totally fine so they're just like i don't know the the every bit of cell phone exposure will harm them a thousand times more than kyle and maybe a hundred times more than nick and then everyone has a different is that more you think based on genetics or the fact that maybe their their baseline health is a little bit lower or more compromised it might be both uh there there are probably genetic factors there's probably uh

people's uh heavy metal load uh toxic load overall stress load so there's and it's something i talked about uh on ben greenfield the no oh no cycle and the work of dr. Martin Paul, P-A-L-L from the WSU, Washington State University. So he's a guy who has been looking at chemical sensitivity since I think the early 80s, probably before. And then he switched to EMFs a lot in the last 10 years. And this guy has developed this nitric oxide peroxy nitrite cycle or helped develop the theories and and the the entire groundwork around this cycle which explains how is it that someone can enter a room smell perfume and also almost drop like how is it that they can be so chemically sensitive does it make sense or is it psychosomatic i get a fucking migraine if somebody puts puts on a nail polish in front of me. So you have a certain sensitivity. So, but people that are

chemically sensitive, it's worse than that. It's like, it's horrible. They cannot even go probably in a supermarket or, uh, let's say a big outlet store, a mall, the smell or a new car, for example, they would, they would get so many effects. So. So how is it explained? Well, he explained that these chemicals really excite the NMDA receptors in the brain and they get an overreaction basically over time, really a sensitization of the NMDA receptor. So it acts as an excitatory toxin, just like some people who live in a moldy house. I know Dave Ashbery is really the guy who brought a lot of mold discussion in the health space. Well, over time, mold does the same thing. Your brain, it excites your brain and eventually just a little bit of mold will excite it to an extent that's just an overreaction.

It sensitizes your brain. Same thing for chemicals. So when it comes to EMFs, the same thing is also happening. So it might be that these people, their body is just feeling EMFs as the threat, but to an extent that's way too much. Maybe the damage happening isn't correlated with their reaction. Maybe they're in an overreaction state. And it depends on a lot of factors. But if you study Dr. Martin Paul, we can link to a YouTube video. It's very informative. He explains all the

pathways. He explains basically that EMS will open your cells, voltage-gated calcium channels and let a lot of calcium flow into the cell, which is supposed to happen, but in small quantities. Normally, the concentration of calcium in the interstitial around cells is very high and in cells very low. But what happens is that this calcium keeps flowing in and these voltage-gated calcium channels, well, they're voltage gated. They're like sensors, electric sensors, but this is electricity in the air. Think about it. Electromagnetic fields. If there's a signal, if I can have a cell phone here, there's electricity in the air. This is how it works. If you get a wifi signal in your bedroom and in the bathroom, there's electricity filling the air. So it's disrupting our natural sensors, basically, to put it extremely simply. But what are the

consequences of this intracellular calcium that's elevated? It's oxidative damage and through one thing that's called peroxynitrite, that is a nitrogen species that is actually, that has been, I'd say it's been 10 years since they've started really looking in peroxynitrite. So this is brand new information also. Dr. Paul, for example, is groundwork paper that really started them on this path of EMS, 2013. It's brand new. It's brand new. So no doctor, no researcher, engineer, physicist, a lot of them still repeat, well, there's no way these low-level signals could hurt us. But they don't know about the sensors. They don't know about the VGCCs, Dr. Martin Paul. They don't know about the mechanisms. So what they say is accurate, but based on their ignorance. They don't

know the science, but it's been developing extremely fast. And when you look at the studies, for example, some stuff I shared on Men Greenfield, it's like there's one study, one Indian review from 2012, looking at over 900 paper, asking the simple question, can these EMFs from cell phone towers, for example, affect plants, animals, insects, and humans? They took a bunch of studies. They looked only at quality studies. It's a meta-analysis. It's very precise. It takes probably years to perform. Well, it was almost 600 papers out of 900 that did show effects. So it's not a question, is it happening? The question in the argument could be to what degree? What is the urgency to act? Am I affected? Is it reducing my health by 50%? Or is it 5%? Or is it no percent? Like, how much should I care about this? Well,

I would say at the moment, to be scientifically precise, it would be, well, kind of run your own experiment here. Because one thing is sure, the safety standards do not protect us. The second thing is that something is happening. And the third thing I can tell you is that some people are more sensitive. And if you fall on that spectrum, you might not know it. And I would say that most people don't know it, haven't considered it. One practitioner, Trudy, took my course and she's a registered dietitian and is an expert when it comes to anxiety. She's a best-selling author. She hadn't realized how much she was affected by EMS. She's a professional doctor, not a doctor,

but a professional health practitioner. Doctors have told me the same thing. PhD scientists have realized the same thing in their own life. So it doesn't mean, it's not because like anyone from any background, from any level of education, like everyone can be affected. And sometimes, even if you're like, if you think your health is like here, maybe it can go there, super high. Maybe it's still undermining your performance. So maybe if you reduce your cell phone use

in your pocket as an athlete, you will realize, oh my God, my testosterone is boosted. Well, good thing you don't have to take a bunch of Tribulus or whatever you wanted to take, right? Or you can take both. You can reduce cell phone use and then use the supplements, but they might compete with each other. So it's also like a factor that I think everyone needs to look at as just consider it. At least considering it and not ignoring it, I think is doing to everyone a huge service. And something I actually didn't talk about children, and you have a three-year-old, I have a three-month-old at home, Elliot, and it's important that we also take care of our children. because if we don't know what the effects are, well, I can tell you that children will absorb twice the radiation compared to adults. And that's published, that's peer reviewed. give them a device. Please, no cell phones before teenage years if you can help it.

Or please teach them that there might be a downside to the technology. Put airplane mode and try to educate them from day one. And once they're teenagers and they're hooked on the cell phone, it might be super hard to go back. So think about that. And if the children,

you have a toddler at home hanging out right next to the Wi-Fi router, well, it's no better than sleeping in W Hotel with the Wi-Fi router under the pillow, right? It's worse. It's twice as worse for them, if not more. And their developing brain is affected. And actually, EMS, it looks like the studies

are pointing towards the fact that stem cells are more affected than most other cells in the human body. Not good if you're a child. But again, this entire, like, I cannot make statements like, oh, this is doing this to your child or that. It's not looking good. The more you look into it, the worse it feels. It's like, ah, the more studies that come out, the more it points towards the fact that

it's disruptive to normal brain development and growth. So just don't take any chances because maybe I'll be flagged in 10 years. They will say, oh, Nick, on that On It podcast, it was a bit like overkill, alarmist, or maybe I'll be too right. And people that take action today, it's just as a precaution,

maybe move the router away, maybe turn it off at night. Like doing these things as a precaution, maybe move the router away, maybe turn it off at night. Doing these things as a precaution, you'll be glad you did because in 10 years, your child is healthy as can be. And you'll be like, okay, I cannot say my child is healthy because I removed EMS, but I'm glad I did. I like remove the risks in advance before knowing for sure, is this technology hurting us and to what degree? Yeah, it hasn't been shown to be safe. So let's just say that right now. Exactly.

And when we were born, we didn't have Wi-Fi. We didn't have the internet. We didn't have a lot of things. If you're over 30, that's the case. So this is a brand new trial run with our future generations, right? And we should take the bare minimum steps to making sure that we can kind of mitigate what's going on because that's, you know, they're going to have it in school. They're going to have it in different places. That's fine. But at least, you know, and certainly when it comes to sleep,

like that can be our safe place, right? The bedroom shouldn't have a TV in it. You shouldn't have lights on when you're asleep at night. You can focus on sleep hygiene so you know that that one period, which is the most restorative time in your entire day, can be the lowest EMF and the best possible sleep you can have. Super important. And when it comes to even the Wi-Fi in school issue is a real one. And if my child were in school with a bunch of iPads,

well, first I will freak out because I'm just too involved in the topic. But after that, I would look at, okay, can we go wired? And some schools did. And one resource to look at is ehtrust.org, the Environmental Health Trust. That's a nonprofit organization that is ehtrust.org, the Environmental Health Trust. That's a non-profit organization that is fighting on so many fronts, so many issues related to EMS, but they have solutions.

And schools wire their entire school or just asking the teacher to turn off the Wi-Fi router when not in use. And it turns out that sometimes it's in use 30 minutes during the day, but it's always on, right? Just because the IT guys don't like the, oh, I have to unplug it and this and, but if they put a button that can turn it off, she can turn it off just fine. So again, reducing, especially useless exposure,

I think is the one step that's important. If you're using it, okay, fine for one hour, but then you turn it off right it's no need it's like changing the way we use technology instead of always on sometimes off it's always off and if i need it sometimes on so it's really switching it around that's that's extremely important i think hell yeah brother well is there i, is there anything else we didn't cover in this? Anything else you want to add? Resources? Well, my book is a good way to start. I have a YouTube channel also. I'll be posting a bunch of things among them, me dismantling the W hotel.

So I'm trying to show, I'm trying to add some humor in there. I think, I think that's a topic. Once you, you get into it, you might start freaking out a little bit, especially if you're like a dad or mom. I think we tend to get very emotional about these issues. You should be, but not too much. Again, when it comes to when you first started eating healthy or all these topics, you can go overboard. I think you got to look at that extremely seriously. And I think that if you want to get involved and you realize there's a cell phone tower in front of your house and you're like,

is that safe? EhTrust.org is an incredible resource. And just the fact that you're listening to this podcast, having a conversation and be open-minded about the topic, because that's something that I see a lot of people, oh, tinfoil, there's no science, bullshit. Well, look into the book. Some people have told me, Nick, I didn't believe anything of these EMS before I read your book. My goal was to convince the skeptics there is science. There's no denying that there is science once you read the book.

Then you could argue with me, you're too precautious or we need to be more precautious than what I'm saying. You could argue with the philosophy of how we apply science, but there's no denying there is science. It is changing. France has banned cell phones

or actually will starting September 1st, on all school levels. It was supposed to be until I think 12 or 15 years old. It will be extended to 17 years old. No cell phones in schools. This is because of distractions, social media, bullying, also EMFs, and the French government is really open-minded or forward-thinking when it

comes to these things. This is happening whether you like it or not. So just get into the topic and take these baby steps and most of all, report, like take note of if you sleep better, is it real for you? Is it real? And discover your own sensitivities, go camping and realize the difference. And then you can come back to me. You can thank me or say, Nick, I don't feel anything. And then you can choose to still do it or not. But I think it's just important to stop thinking this is not a topic. Stop looking at it and bury our head in the sand. I think we're way past that now. Yeah. And there's plenty of actionable items that we can do that are fairly cheap, easy fixes that can help mitigate some of this stuff. I really appreciate you coming on. Where

can people find you on social media and online? Sure. My Facebook is Nick Pinault. So that's P I N E A U L T official. And, uh, you can find me on Instagram, Nick Pino, and I'll have, you can go nickpino.com. It might be up, might, might be, might link to my LinkedIn. It's going to be my new blog, uh, YouTube, same thing. You can, if you just type Nick Pino EMFs, you're going to find a lot of presentations. I did some more Toro than this one. Um, and,. And Dr. Martin Paul on YouTube. If you want the science, if you're listening to this, you're like, oh,

this guy Nick Pino, I don't trust. I don't trust him. He's not a PhD. Dr. Martin Paul, P-A-L-L. Look at the science and then come back to me. We'll link to all that in the show notes for you. So you don't have to worry about taking notes while you're driving or listening to this while you're working out. Thanks so much for joining us, man. I had a blast. Anytime. Thank you. Hell yeah, brother.

Thank you guys for tuning in to the Human Optimization Hour with Kyle Kingsbury and our man, Nick Pino. Give him a follow. Check out his website. If you are a professional in health and wellness and want a deeper dive, he has courses for you available on his website, which we'll link to in the show notes. Thanks for tuning in.