Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #58 David Rutherford

Episode Date: November 5, 2018

Ex Navy SEAL Medic & Instructor, Motivational Speaker, Best selling Author, YouTube Personality, and Tactical Training Expert, David Rutherford is living his dream as an internationally known motivational speaker, author and coach. His Froglogic – Navy SEAL Motivational Training program has reached over 4 million people around the world. David inspires audiences and individuals across America and around the world with his emotionally entertaining style of speaking, writing and coaching. David served 8 years in the Naval Special Warfare Community as a SEAL student, Combat Paramedic, Operator and Instructor. Since his honorable discharge from the Navy in 2003 he continued traveling for another 7 years as a tactical training and security expert for the US Government and one of the largest private security firms in the world. We discuss common grounds of parenting, the loss of conversation in today's world, how social media causes stress and anger and more. Connect with David Rutherford on: Team Frog Logic | https://teamfroglogic.com/ Instagram |https://www.instagram.com/teamfroglogic/ Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/Teamfroglogic/?ref=hl Twitter | https://twitter.com/teamfroglogic Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk   Get 10% off at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/podcast/   Connect with Onnit: Twitter | https://twitter.com/Onnit       Instagram | https://bit.ly/2NUE7DW   Subscribe to Human Optimization Hour Itunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY

What's up, y'all? I want to talk to you about the Aubrey Marcus weekend coming up. It's going to be in Los Angeles, November 10th and 11th. We've got a laundry list of dope coaches, including myself, Kyle Kingsbury, Mr. Aaron Alexander, who's been a guest on my show, as well as Aubrey's, to help with yoga and movement patterns. Christine Hassler, who's an incredible coach. Whitney Miller, Aubrey's fiancee. We'll be talking about relationships and many other personal ways to transform your body, your mind, your emotionals, your spirit. We'll be talking about personal transformative practices from physical optimization to mental, emotional, and spiritual. Chris Ryan's a fucking man. I would love it if he showed up. So we've got just a laundry list of great people there. We're going to do all sorts of practices from walking meditation, breath work out on the beach, ecstatic dance, yoga, how to stretch and move properly, and just really anything

that we find to be the best practices we know of personally, we're going to share with you guys. And we'll have intimate conversations, the ability for private dinners, and all sorts of cool things are going to go down here November 10th and 11th in Los Angeles. Go to aubreymarcus.com slash weekend for more. Welcome to the Human Optimization Hour podcast with my buddy, David Rutherford. David is a guy that I met out at one of the mastermind weekends here at Onnit, former Navy SEAL, absolutely amazing guy. This is hands down one of the favorite podcasts I've ever recorded. And I know you guys are going to dig it. Thanks for tuning in. So I don't know that I would, I've heard the same thing,

but what I hear is that the cold water helps sperm and it's like super hot. That's an issue for male sperm because the females are stronger than the males, right? So if you were like always in a hot bath or a sauna, then you might have more female. But if you're doing the cold, you should be a decent balance there. That's the science that disproves the frogman theory. And when you take a step back and you actually talk to guys, it's pretty even. So I think it's more of the behavioral aspect of paying the man for certain unintended activity. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So no, it's beautiful. It's just two were heavy for sure. And then especially being a single dad with it. But now with her and she had two girls, her oldest is 10 and her youngest is six. So it's 10, 7, 6, 5. And so the number one thing I've always struggled with is just the profound nature of patience, right? And I suck.

I just didn't have any patience. I think the experience in the teams, it eradic patience, right? And I suck. I just didn't have any patience. I think the experience in the teams, it eradicates, right? Just like you, you're, you know, in fighting, you're always on the gun. You're on, that clock is, you just, it's impending, right? And with four little girls

who don't, can't even conceptualize the space-time continuum, like I have to put that in check significantly. Yeah, they're great teachers, aren't they? It's funny, you think of all the things you're going to teach your kids and then right out the gate, you're like, oh shit, I got to learn.

I got to learn quick. Well, the funniest thing for me was, I remember when my ex was pregnant with our first, I was working for the agency and I'd come home, like literally still had Afghan dust in my beard, right? And we went next day right to the ultrasound. And we go in and, you know, I've given a million ultrasound. I was a medic in the teams and stuff and I've delivered like five babies before. So I knew the routine.

So they're sitting there and they're going back and forth. And she, meanwhile, she's like talking to my ex. She's going, so what do you think it is? And all this. And my, my ex is going, well, I think it's a boy. For the whole first trimester, I thought it was a boy, but now I'm thinking it's a girl. And right as she says that the, the thing stops in between my oldest's legs. And obviously there's nothing there. And she goes, well, guess what? It's going to be a girl. And in that minute, Kyle, I went from, like I had the entire, you know, every manual I ever needed to raise a little boy got flushed down the toilet. And I imagined holding this little girl and then walking her down the aisle in an instant. And I realized the greatest fear I've ever had in my life, that I had no idea what to do with a little girl.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I strongly believe that our next child will be a girl. What makes you think so? Well, I saw it in an ayahuasca vision. Nice. Yeah. So, I mean, and I've been batting a thousand with ayahuasca visions uh nice yeah so i mean and and i've been batting a thousand with uh ayahuasca

visions thus far with come into reality so anything that's that's given me a glimpse of the future has come to fruition wow that's that's impressive yeah so i'm i'm fairly certain it's just a matter of when not a matter of if is your wife as certain as you are does she trust in the vision that you have as well was she with you she's had she's we've had our first child is is uh bear we shared the same vision of of her holding a child or me holding a child and her holding the two of us wow and she you know they go around at the end of the thing and they have closing circle where everyone gets to speak about what they went through and saw and she starts describing this and I'm like, hold on, don't mean to cut you off, but I had the exact same vision. And she was like,

wow. And a month later we went back and it was the same, but now it was a boy. And we know all of our fears of being parents came up and everything like that. And it just realized very quickly, like none of these are my fears. They're just what society tells you you have to do. There's no perfect time to have a kid, you know? And then all that shrunk down and moved away from me. And a month later we were pregnant with our son. Wow. That's impressive. Was that the first ceremony you guys had gone through? No, we had done a few before that. Yeah. We had done a few, but so the, the, the, the clarity of, and the trust you had in the vision came through right oh yeah especially because it was the second time in a row where we see like now you're showing me

the exact same thing and it's a boy so it's more real it's more vivid and and you're showing me this again right and both of us had the exact same vision to you know twice in a row right so it was like i was like oh shit all right nail in the coffin i guess we should get started look check what color we don't just go right for the colors exactly that's cool that's so let me ask you this are you gonna go and get an ultrasound or all that i think i'm sure you want to know sex i'm sure i'm sure we will just because just to verify you know and then maybe maybe it isn't, who knows. But I mean, at this point, I don't think there's, I mean, there's no doubt in my mind.

That's cool. So it'll be cool to get a sister and to have a little girl. If we could only somehow be able to, you know, funnel that clarity, right, into, you know, parenting as well too, right, into, you know, parenting as well too, right? Where you would say, where you'd have the vision of, this is how you should parent this child that you're going to have. And I think that's the great challenge for me because, you know, going through a divorce last year, I jumped in all those books of, well, what are the things I'm going to have

to worry about? What are my fears, right? Is it high promiscuity? Is it drug abuse? Is it all these things from broken homes and those influences? And I mean, I read like five books in the first two months and I shocked the shit out of myself. I really amped my fear through the roof and I didn't have any, you know, because I was still in the process of going through it. So I didn't have a real good footing and my triangle, right? And not be too morally ambiguous with that direction for our children. So that way, when they are on their own and facing the monsters every day, they have their own framework too. But what I'm learning now is the framework is not a derivative of other people's i mean they have good suggestions good opinions but it really comes from the person you're doing it with yeah

right and even though i'm i'm separate from my ex i still have to acknowledge what happens in her home you know and now i'm i'm with this new woman that i'm in love with. She's a wonderful mother to her too. But I now have to assimilate into her framework as well. And I think the more concise you are at building that structure and finding what cornerstones are going to be the foundation for your parenting skill set, man, now you're cooking with gas, right? I mean, that's the way to do it. Is that how you guys are doing it with your son? Yeah. I think it's about, you know, it's exactly what you're talking about. You're not going to agree on everything in life. Just like you're not going to have, I mean, you don't want to date yourself.

So you're not going to find this. Even if you wanted to, you're not going to find the person that likes all the exact same things that you like and the same exact movies and the same exact sports and fill in the blank, it's not going to be you dating you, right? It's not going to be perfect, right? You're going to have compromise. You're going to have different ideas about all sorts of shit. What's cool, what's interesting, what's entertaining, and also how to parent, what's important, right? And so I think it's really finding what is the common ground that you can build that foundation on. So that way, there's consistency and congruency in how you parent.

I love it. I love the idea of common ground, right? Common ground is really about shared ground, right? And I think from my past of being in the service as long in special operations, my whole mindset was I have to take ground. And I'm really finding as the parenting aspect is saying, it's not about taking ground. It's about creating a great perception for whatever ground they choose to follow or whatever path they follow or whatever lane they go down. hey, these are some tool sets that work for me, that work for your mom. And hey, hopefully you can figure that out. But that shared ground between the parents and that shared ground amongst

the people we love most in our lives, that's the real challenge. How do you share ground back and forth when you guys talk about it all? I love listening to your podcast and Aubrey's. And a lot of people talk about that ego and wanting to hold ground or take it and hold it. Yeah, the need to be right. The need to be right. It's such a big one, right? Man, it was funny. My best friend and I were chatting about share ground, taking a step back and allowing a person to push their thoughts out without the recognition that I'm ready to pounce all over it, scramble it up, make it to where I want to work it, and then push it back out.

And it's really allowing the ideas of other people to sink in. And we've really lost the art of conversation. I mean, it's, it's nuts. It's far, you used to be able to tell like, oh, it's kind of odd talking to that person because they're always, it always feels like they're just waiting to jump in. Right. You know, and I never get to finish a sentence or finish a thought in that, in those conversations because they just cut me off real quick. They always have to interject. And then there's other conversations where you really feel, and it's a palpable feeling, like you feel like you were heard. Whether that person agrees with you or not, that's what we should aim towards, where we can actually hear and listen to each other and work on those listening skills.

And from there, then you want to continue the conversation, whether they, whether you agree with the person or not. Right. You're like, fuck, I felt like I was heard. That person really listens to me. They don't agree with me on certain things, but they listen. Right. And that, yeah, that opens the door for further, like good communication. It's, you know, and now like I'm really becoming conscientious of the words I'm choosing to use in front of my kids as well. And that's leading and now doing what I do also for a living. I have to be conscientious about the words I'm going to choose, whether it's an audience or on my show or whatever it is. You got to think it out more.

But the impetuousness of youth, right? And depending upon the culture that you've been saturated with. Man, when I was in the teams, it was like, you open your mouth. And if it's not, if it doesn't fit the group think in that moment, man, you're blasted for it. And I remember I'd walk into the platoon space in the morning. And they'd be like, what, man? What'd you do last night? And I'd be like, oh, I in the morning and they'd be like, what man, what'd you do last night? And I'd be like, oh, I did. And they're like, shut up.

There was my favorite thing in the world that at team one was your new guy and you show up and every, you know, you'll have all the platoons out there and you'll get on the grinder before. And that's the morning muster. And, and the, you know, the master chief would be like, all right, we've got some new guys on the team. We're going to call them up and you get up there and you're like, and you know, the master chief would be like, all right, we've got some new guys on the team. We're going to call them up. And you get up there and you're like, and you know, I was the first guy up there and they're like, all right, Rutherford, go ahead and tell everybody about yourself,

where are you from? And all that. And I said, you know, I'm petty officer. And the whole team was like, shut up. Shut your mouth. And I was like, wow, this is going to be tough, man. And so you're preconditioned for this, you know, putting on your armor every day. Build the walls. Build the walls. And, man, you carry those walls long enough and you forget the beauty of what it means to share words with other people. And, and I think, you know, for, for me, at least I, you know, going and now getting the opportunity to experience people I never would have dreamed coming in contact with before, if I had done 20 years in or whatever, and now saying, man, I'm,

I'm a student of life. I, I really want to understand the human condition as deep and as, and as, as profoundly as possible, but man, a huge component of that is shutting up. Yeah. Yeah. And there's, I mean, one of the lessons that I've had in the, in the plant medicine space continually has been to not take myself or life so seriously. How do you do that now? So, so the answer to that, right? The answer to that is to play. It's to play more. And in that looseness of playing and acting like a kid and, and really putting humor forward, right? Like if I can joke about things and that's something I love about comedians. I mean, there's some comedians that are dark as fuck. Like they will say shit that you could never get away with saying if I tweeted something like that and I was a non-comedian, I'm going to get fucking roasted.

Yeah. I'm done. Right. I'm fired from on it. So there there's things like that, but I always appreciate that because to me, it's, it's, if you can turn something like a, especially, you know, a horrific situation, if you can turn that on its head to where there's a glimmer of light and a glimmer of laughter with that, then it's all fair game, right? And then it allows us to loosen up. And again, we can take things, and including ourselves, not so seriously and play a bit more and loosen up a bit more and behave like kids, you know? Absolutely. You know, one of the things that I really was profound, we had Matt Best from Black Rifle Coffee on, one of the things that I really was profound, we, we had, we had Matt Best from Black Rifle Coffee on one of our first guests that we had, you know, and, and it was, you know, when you start for, you know, you're brand new, you're like, Holy shit, are we going to be able to do this?

And, you know, Marcus had been interviewed 10 gazillion times and, but, you know, never been on the other side of the mic. And so it was really interesting to try and go and dig into really what is driving people to do what they're doing, what enables them to never quit. And one of the profound things that Matt said, and he's a really deep guy. I mean, I think everybody just wants him to be

epic rap, bat, roll, Navy SEAL versus Ranger on YouTube or whatever. One of the amazing things he said was, humor is the source that connects all of us. It really is. It enables us to cross over those, those, you know, those thresholds where, you know, if something's a little uncomfortable with, and if you can crack a joke or kind of sync up with someone else's humor, whether it's dark or light or whatever it is, man, it eases the tension. Yeah, that's the icebreaker. It's the ultimate icebreaker, right?

People ask us all the time and they go, why do you guys waste 10 minutes at the beginning of every show doing your mad minute where we ask ludicrous questions? What's your first car? Who's your favorite superhero? Just meaningless, mindless stuff. And, and, and one of the things is, and I learned this, one of the greatest lessons I ever learned about that process was I became real close when I was, I was for about two years, I taught case officers at the CIA, how to kind of behaviorally

integrate with soft units down range. Cause you know, when you look at our training, it's diametrically opposed, right? Soft orientation is total team mentality. Case officers in the agency is individual compartmentalization on every level because you can't have information crossover. Otherwise, it could jeopardize the value of the intelligence potentially. And I became real friends with this one guy who was, who had been in the Marine Corps, brilliant dude, gotten out now he's doing this.

And he was like, he's like, David, do you think that like when we go and I meet with a senior ranking member of Al Qaeda or the Taliban or something that I, I, you know, I shove my, my, the pistol, my, you know, the barrel of my pistol in his mouth and tell me right now, otherwise I'm going to shoot. You know, he's the, you think that works? And I'm like, what? You don't do that? I mean, that's what I think we do. You know, it's like negative. He's like, we spend six, seven months getting to know these guys. We sit down, we, every meeting we have, he goes, my first 10 meetings with some of these top guys, I never once discussed anything operational. It was about rapport. It was about trying to gain that connectivity, right? Trying to gain that trust, which in that case is really unique. Yeah, it's everything. It's everything because at a certain point, now granted, when you give a guy $100,000 cash,

he's got a little bit of a motivation behind it to share. But even then, you have to get to that point, right? And so he said, the number one thing I would do is laugh, crack jokes about stuff, and just try and get that going. And it would settle that everything down. And so the value of humor, I think, is really transcendental if you get into it. That's why great comedians, what do they make us feel, man? I mean, you watch Joe on stage and it's like, holy cow, it's incredible. Or Dave Chappelle or how my favorite was always Robin Williams. Yeah, he was so good.

His insanity. yeah he was so good his insanity so when he when he died i had um i down like there they have a lot of his albums his former comedic comic albums on uh itunes so i downloaded them all that's and i just i had a long flight and just listen to i think i was going um to kuwait and iraq for a tour for the troops when i was in the ufc yeah yeah just, you know, you got 10, 15 hours to kill. So it was, it was amazing, but he was so talented. Just, just incredible. What I, you know, what I always think that when you get to know people, you know, there's, you know, how many different, you know, components of our character, right. Or our personality or however you want to describe it that become the relevant aspect of those deepened relationships.

And, you know, I believe it's a few in particular. I think one, if you can share pain effectively with other people, I think it's a wonderful bridge across, you know, past culture, right? Or cultural influence. I think the other is, you know, if you can be funny and you can laugh and enjoy yourself, if you can share experience with each other, be able to travel, right? How many times do you hear, I can't travel there. They drive me nuts, right? Well, that's a component of adventure and broadening our horizons. And then the most, the critical aspect is allowing yourself to love and to be loved by those other people. And, you know, so you think about those core things, but how often are we really allowing

ourselves to be intentional in those, those pockets of those developmental relationships, right? Yeah. That's something that Rogan talked about is, and it's not like he invented this, this line of thinking, but how but how you know and some people have said scientifically if we were to try to name it it'd be because we all have mirror neurons right but we're always trying to behave in a manner that everyone else approves of you know like we're always just want to fit in we always just want like and there's so much self self-criticism whatever that voice is in our head about oh oh, do other people think this is okay? Did they like it when I do this?

Did they like me? What did they think of me? You know, like all those things. And that's not really being your authentic self. That's trying to be like an amalgamation of everyone you know that's cool, you know, and try to fit that in. And there's no authenticity there. And in that experience, I think it's hard to truly feel like you're loved because the thing that you're putting out there is not you. Right?

So it doesn't matter if fucking somebody loves that. That version of you is not who you are at your core. And I love, that's what I love so much about what you guys are doing here right is you believe in the totality of human performance you know I I go you know I I work with the Boston Red Sox I've been with them for three years as as kind of their mental performance guy and or one of them the the main guys this brilliant guy Laz Gutierrez who's a former baseball player but I come in and help with kind of the nuanced stuff with players and getting these guys to think outside of the spectrum of what professional baseball does.

I mean, you've been a professional athlete. You know the conformity that is driven into that space. And freeing yourself is not an easy thing to do. But here, you guys, when you guys talk about, you talk about that totality. The challenge is, I think, and what I'm hearing when I'm getting back is everybody's pathway is different. You know what I mean? I can't, and people, I mean, I know you guys all deal with this every day. People are like, all right, I want to be Tim Kennedy.

How do I be Tim? Well, you're not, first of all. That ain't ever going to happen because he's one of a kind. They broke that mold, right? But if you want to have some components of what he is in terms of his passion, his drive, his commitment, his zest for life, we can help you towards that but you're you're you know you you don't have to join the green berets you don't you know you don't have to go into ufc you don't have to do all these things but people are they get they can become afraid of how long that pathway might be yeah yeah i think i think the one of the bigger components in that in in all of life you know as i've said many times on this podcast and in life is many, many paths lead up the mountain, right? And we're all working towards getting to the same spot, right? There's different ways to get there. Some take longer than others. Some roads are harder, but it's just continuing to move forward. step each day and making progress and learning, setting your goals and having things that you're

shooting towards, but also having some contentment and some happiness with where you're at in life and a little forgiveness for the mistakes that you've made. And all along that way, that makes it easier as you navigate, right? Yeah, for sure. The one thing I struggle with, and I really want to believe it's true, is that we all do have this peak that we see, that we want. And I want to believe it's a peak where we have a peaceful heart, a peaceful mind, where there's a component of ease that exists for all of us. I'm just not sure. I'm still on the fence. And having done what I did for so long and really seen the power of evil that exists on this planet, man, it's tough to

swallow that, right? It's tough to say, all right, people that are in this profound ideological fascism, if you will, right, in terms of whether it's Islamic radicalism or whether it's dictatorial regime and power or even in our country and wealth, the upper 1% and what they're willing to do in order to stay in power or all that, it makes me go, all right, man, there possibly are two peaks. And where does the road dive, where does it split for people? And that's what I'm questioning. I mean, how do you, what role do we play? Is it really as profound as we get with somebody and we say, hey, listen, trust me, I'm going to get you to this peak, or I'm going to help you along the way. We never hear anybody saying, hey, man, I'm going to help you get to this peak. But there certainly are a significant amount of people out there driving people towards

that reality. What are your thoughts on that? I mean- Yeah don't know that's a tough one i mean i've certainly you know it's funny i i um i i don't mention this often because i don't want uh people like oh fucking leave the country then if you don't like america there was a time where I wanted to move outside of the country because I was a little bit disgusted with what was going on here and wanted to be closer to the plants in the Amazon and also thought I could take jujitsu and MMA out to those countries and maybe bridge the gap of having a business with also still being closer to nature in the Amazon. Cool. And as I went through Central and South America, spending a week in Peru, Colombia, Costa Rica, and Panama, I realized we have it fucking good. We have it so

good. We have it so good. Even with all the shit going on, we are fucking blessed to be born in this country, right? We really are. And if you do want to affect change, you got to be on the fucking front lines. You're not going to do it from Switzerland. You know, like you got to be right where the action is. Right. And that's where your voice is heard. That's where people can, you can really navigate that. So I don't necessarily know, you know, um, where people diverge, you know, and end up going down the wrong way. Uh, and not just necessarily like, Oh, this oh this you know the guy got drug addiction and and wound up dying or overdosing or whatever like that's obviously a bad path um but you know heading towards joining isis or heading towards doing like there's some there's some weird shit

going on a lot of westerners and not just americans but westerners in general you see making a switch because they go full bore opposite direction revolt of whatever this current system is that we're in, right? And I think that it takes a closer look at, we need to take a closer look at what's going on with mental health, what's going on with our quality of life, because there's enough people waking up to this saying like, hey, this isn't right. I don't like this. I don't want to do that for the rest of my life. I don't want to be a part of this thing. And hopefully, if there's enough common ground and humanity in them, then they choose to move

to the mountains or they choose to be a yogi or they choose to do whatever that's a peaceful path and beneficial as opposed to let me go kill and try to go against this thing head on right right well it it begs the question how easily influenced are we right i mean how easily can we be manipulated right by the information that's out there and and what i want to i think the greatest things that I, you love dialogue. You know, you listen to your conversations with the people that come on your show and man, you have great dialogues with people because you're a consumer of other people's thoughts and to explore what's the potential.

Now, the great challenge, right? What we're seeing is, man, nobody wants to talk anymore. Everybody wants to just stand up and identify themselves in these really unique identities without any ability to say, oh, hey, I really respect your opinion. I don't agree with it. I don't like it, per se. But I'm going to hear what you have to say. I'm going to be gracious.

I'm going to be respectful, have to say. I'm going to be gracious. I'm going to be respectful, right? Yeah. Respectful. That's all out the window now with social media. Respect is gone. It's gone. Choles are everywhere. Bro, when I first started, man, I've been at this long time, right? And I mean, I remember the first videos I started putting out on YouTube was back in, you know, 2008, you know, 2009 when, you know, I was, I quit working for Blackwater. I, you know, I got out of the teams in 03. I went to work for Blackwater for a couple of years. And then I was like, this, this is not what I need to do. Started Frog Logic to work with kids and develop kids programs. My main thing was self-confidence. Started doing these videos, man. And I remember I put stuff up on YouTube,

brother, and I'd get obliterated and I'd be on there, you know, engaging and getting sucked into it. And I'm like, wait a minute, all I'm trying to do is just be positive, man. I know I have a life of negativity with becoming a trained killer, right? I don't want that anymore.

But the reality is, man, it is about that sense of, of, of being heard and posturing and, and, and power distribution. There's a brilliant guy out there. His name's Gert Hosting. He's this Dutch guy, old guy. And he's like the premier guy in studying culture, right? He's been studying for 40 plus years and has really drilled it down to the, you know, nationalization, national culture versus organizational culture. And he has these, you know, six basic concepts that exist in every country and whatever, because he's interviewed 10,000 organizations in every country, right? I mean, it's the amount of data he has is off the charts. I remember reading his

book called Software for the Mind because I wanted to, how do we turn our team into Navy SEAL culture? And I was like, well, I don't know, spray him with cold water and beat him to death? I don't know, but that's not going to work for you. You know, but so I wanted to understand culture a little bit better. And he came out with these concepts that, you know, the masculine, the feminine, avoidance, power avoidance versus power, you know, the masculine, the feminine, avoidance, power avoidance versus power, you know, consumption and all these things.

And you start going, my gosh, man, we're really pulled in at an early age towards all this stuff. And without that significant influencer, that person that can stop you in your tracks or grab you by the shirt tails and say, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Listen to some other ideas. Listen to some and make your own opinion. I think it's a challenge. The problem I see now, and I still do a lot of work with kids and college athletes and stuff, really, the information we're getting isn't that good a lot of the time, right? Yeah. People are snapping to judgment and snapping to,

to an opinion without getting the totality of what's really going on. Yeah. And we, I mean, how bad is it if the majority of what we consume is negative, right? So if you've got the news on all day long, that's not fucking good. That's not good for anybody. You're not going to have the world figured out because you're up to date on current events. Like they're only force feeding you the most jaw dropping, holy shit moments that happened in the world yeah yeah it's like pure panic you know you're running around like chicken little the sky is falling the sky is falling i mean that's that's what they want to serve you yeah so if that's the only thing you consume like that's a real issue you know and there's that just goes for that goes for a lot of things too i remember um you know chris ryan was saying i after he was on a joe rogan's podcast one of the one of the last few times he was like you know i i feel it it's it's humbling and it's a fun um i forgot how he worded it but he's basically saying like it's a fun exercise to go and read the comments and joe

was like no don't read the comments don't read the comments and people are like you fucking cuck hole you know like just just just laying into them thick, right? It is a great exercise. Yeah. And I mean, it's funny because I tweeted a photo before I was going on with him last. And somebody just wrote, fuck this guy. That was it. That was it.

We haven't even started the podcast. Like, you haven't heard a word come out of my mouth yet. But fuck you Kyle so like and that part of that is just it's just funny right yeah that's okay you know but I think they're there we have to have a redirect where you know like like Rogan was saying we push towards kindness we push towards being nice and positivity and sharing and just, and having empathy and compassion for one another. Like there's so many of these things that have been taught throughout history and all spiritual traditions and brought through the course of

humanity. And it seems like overnight that shit's gone out the window. That is the main reason why, you know, Marcus and for your listeners, Marcus Latrell and I started the team never quit podcast because we wanted to bring more positivity, right? We wanted to bring better information. And that's why podcasts in general are changing the platform of digital consumption across the board. Right. And we wanted to do it by saying, here, come on our show, tell us your greatest never quit story, which is a lot of times pretty negative for people, right? The circumstances, whether it's, you know, Diana Nyad swimming from Cuba to Florida, you know, it took her 30 years to do it she completed that at 62 years old or it's you know it's uh charlie plum who was a vietnam pow in the hanoi hilton for 2103 days damn i mean he's the pinnacle he's number one i

mean he's got he's got if we're gonna rank him he definitely is is there or or laura logan right we had laura logan from 60 minutes, and she talked about getting raped by 300 men in Tafar Square in Egypt during the uprising with vivid description. So the irony in it is here we're having these people open up and share these really tough situations in the hopes that the listeners are going to say in my darkest hour, if I listen, I can find some positivity. I can flip the pain from being negative pain with the negative insurgency just chawing at our soul

to flip it into a positive application of pain that is going to enable me to then take that and teach others, hey, we're going to be okay. There's a light at the end of the tunnel, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so often when we look back on whatever the struggle or stressor or challenges in our life, it ended up being a positive. It ended up helping us grow. It ended up helping us force this out to do this new thing or change the way we were behaving or, or start a new relationship or a new job or whatever the case may be. And then you got to have some gratitude for that event, right? It can be, it can be positive in hindsight. It's just when your's deep in it and then in the shit

that's i think that's the the biggest learning curve is how do we find the ability to stay calm in the eye of the hurricane you know like how can we really just know like all right life's throwing a lot of shit at me right now but you know it's gonna serve me if i if i just look at this on a long enough timeline right right right now i don't see why it's happening i don't know what it's going to serve me if I just look at this on a long enough timeline, right? Right now, I don't see why it's happening. I don't know what it's going to do for me, but some good will come from this. Oh, 100%. There's a brilliant guy out there from Yale. His name's Dr. Charles Morgan, who's this off the charts guy who spent 30 years studying green berets, right? And his big thing was, all right, why in high stress situations are green berets right and his big thing was all right why in in high stress situations are

green berets pulse rates staying down why is their neuroconductivity more on an equilibrium why are they still able to function why can they make split decisions in life and death without freaking out and the way he studied is he went to the seer uh which is search evasion escape and resist resistance and escape or it's basically uh uh be learning how to be a pow and all this and you put all this stuff in in the the sf guys you know under hard sell where they're getting smacked and the beat down and you know and getting hammered you know these guys are holding hard at 155 beats per minute there they can do other you know games neurologically solve clockword puzzles

answer questions you know take them into care out of care and he was like wow that's fascinating whereas the other regular army infantry guys or whomever man they're spiking they're at 190 you know where now their limbic system is completely over in their prefrontal cortex they can't think they can't do anything i mean you you know that is better fighters know that better than everybody else right and and how can they stay in it well he calls it stress inoculation so right the power of stress inoculation i've and i had this real fascination because everybody was telling me fighters have it the most and so i had this incredible opportunity through a guy named first first one through Lex McMahon to work with Stéphane Struve a few years ago.

Yeah, I saw the pic of you in his locker room. Unbelievable guy. He's such a good person, such a good guy. And then just recently, I got to work with Andrei Arvlovsky, another amazing fighter, epic, incredible human being, right? And his commitment towards his skill. But my fascination was like, all right, you get in there and what being, right? And his commitment towards his skill. But my fascination was like, all right, you get in there and what happens, right? What goes through your brain as

you're taking that impact? Well, the person that manages that stress inoculation that really has put the effort in, they're the ones who can stay closest to making good decisions that is going to benefit the outcome for them under the magnitude of that type of pain. So I go, wow. And this is what we do in the teams, right? You go through buds, you're getting hammered, just crushed. So you can make good decisions when bullets are flying past your head. I know. How do we teach people in the civilian world that in order to access that component to be able to love greater, to be able to find that happiness, to make humor and under stress, how many stressful situations do they have to go to before you have the awakening?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that really comes down to how much of the stress are you choosing, Right. What's what's chronic? What's acute? Right. We know acute stress is good for the body. Hormetic response, body rebound stronger. Chronic stress is debilitating. Right. In all forms, whether that's chronic stress from having a shitty diet for 30 years or chronic stress from a bad relationship or whatever that case is, chronic, not good, acute is good. So how do we choose? What are the things we can choose acutely to stress ourselves out that when we, when we willingly put ourselves through that, whatever that is, whether that's going through buds or doing a seal fit or something like that, where you're not going to become a seal, but yeah, let me, let me try, right. Something like that, or you're not going to become a SEAL, but yeah, let me try, right? Something like that. Or maybe just get a cold bath and let me go into that every single day at 35 degrees and see what that does for my brain, right? I mean, there's tons of science backing that up, right? And in that, the ability to stay calm in that thing and willingly say yes

to it, that changes the outcome of all those other interactions you have throughout the day. In your process, because you, I mean, you have one of the coolest jobs in the world, right? You're the head of human performance at Haunted, right? And it's your job to really test the waters of what's possible, right? Scientifically, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. When did you first, when did you start to get to that space where you're like, I think I know what I'm talking about now? Yeah, that was tough. I don't know. You know, I knew, I knew what I knew and I was fascinated with learning all throughout my fight career. And I continue to learn after retiring. It's probably wasn't until I went on

Rogan's where, you know, he really encouraged me afterwards the first time, like, Hey man, you got to start a podcast. And I'm like, yeah, you tell everybody that it's like, no, seriously, you'll be really good at it. And you are really good at it by the way. Thank you, brother. Thank you. And you as well. But I just wanted that, you know, I heard Chris Ryan talk about the reason he wanted a podcast was, was to one selfishly. He wanted to become friends with the people who sitting across from, and he wanted a podcast was two. One, selfishly, he wanted to become friends with the people he was sitting across from. And he wanted to interview these really fucking cool people that were fascinating to him

and he could become buddies with them, right? Have a relationship and learn from those people in the conversations that he's having. And then in doing that too, you can share that with the world and other people benefit from it too, right? Massive, yeah. Yeah, so like once I heard that, I was like, all right, whether I suck or not,

I'm going to try this thing. And I had a podcast before coming here to Onnit and obviously just switched it over to this because largely it's the same people, same conversations. Aubrey's done a great job of giving me free reign and not putting any constraints or boxing me in on what I can talk about, what I can and can't say. Probably the best boss to have for that. The best boss in the world. Best boss in the world. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, I think, I think it comes, there was, as with most things in life, for me, it was fear of the unknown, right. Which is huge for everyone. Right. And then, all right. I'm not, I don't know. So let me just have a little faith

and just put one foot in front of the other and gently walk forward and press on. And I'll make mistakes and stumble here and there. But as I go, I'll learn and I'll get better and I'll improve. And in doing that, now I can look back and be like, well, man, I've been on it for a year. Podcast has doubled its numbers. We're doing great.

We're doing big things here. We've got probably five or six products coming out because I work in product development as well that I've been working on with Aubrey over the last year. I love that you're the guinea pig, by the way. That's like my favorite thing. It's such a red. In Aubrey's show, every time he talks about the guinea pig, he's like, oh, I just give it to God, but he has to ingest it. You're like those dudes, the test pilots from the original NASA missions are like, oh, just give it to Shepard.

He'll fly the thing. Yeah, yeah, right? The monkey that goes into space first. I love it, man. That's awesome. Yeah, it's been, you know, I would say the vast majority of my guinea pig missions have gone really well. And there's been a couple that I overdid it.

But, you know, it's cool. It's fun to be able to experiment on ourselves and to have some type of model. And there's been a couple that I overdid it, but it's cool. It's fun to be able to experiment on ourselves and to have some type of model, like whatever the self-quantification is. Like, all right, I'm not just going to go at this haphazardly or go based on feel. Like, let's try to quantify some things. Does this improve my workouts? Does this improve my recovery or sleep or fill in the blank?

And I've got Vince Kripke here, who's a PhD and, you know, really good into vetting the science and making sure that whatever model we set up is intelligent and done in a way that's going to be constructive. And it's been awesome. It's been a blast. It really is. I like the way you talk about, you know, just feeling your way through things, right? And kind of being reactive to the stimulus that comes back, which unfortunately is the grand majority of people out there and how they advance this concept of managing their embrace. I call it embracing fear or, or really kind of exploring the potential within their own minds and hearts and all that. But it's funny, man, the greatest guest we had on was this guy, Eric

Weinmayer, and he blind guy who climbed Everest, but he also climbed every other peak, you know, on the seven summits, he climbed. He just went down the Colorado River in a kayak by himself. We had a guy got kind of screaming out, left, right, left, right. But he did that. I mean, this guy's off the charts, right? And when he talks about it, he says, you know, being on the rock or being on a mountain is about the relationship you develop with that relationship, the greater probability of success you're going to have. But there's still, he can't just throw on some kit and put, like for us, we were to bring him in our world. We throw him on body armor, some helmets, some night vision, but give him a gun and put him in a kill house, he's going to struggle. So he had to establish that certain baseline, right? That certain base of training that gave him the confidence to be able to go out. But he said, man, his perception of movement, of whatever, really became fine-tuned because as he's sitting there looking and feeling for what for us, you know, we put our hands over

and looking at, that's not big enough. I'm going to die. Right. He feels something. He's like, oh, that's plenty based on my, my, my skillset to move forward. And, and I, and I, what I struggle with, cause you know, as, as you guys, I'm sure are inundated, right? Hey, how do I get to this fast? How do I get to this? How do I make this jump? You know, how do I become a Navy SEAL? I don't even know how many, you know, what do I need to do to make it through BUDS?

Just don't quit. That's what I tell everybody. Don't ring the bell. Don't ring the bell. It's pretty simple. I don't, you know, go to Jeff Nichols if you want to know the whole program. That's not my thing, right?

But it's really becoming, developing a relationship with the process as well, too. And that's what I'm just fascinated by here, what you guys do here. I mean, you care enough about each person, each client that comes on board, whether it's, you know, a professional athlete in the NFL or a fighter in the UFC to, you know, Joe Schmo walking in for the first time, or, you know, Mary mom, soccer mom coming in and, you know, listen, my life's in shantles. How do I get there? And you guys take the time to develop that intimate relationship with the process, which is huge. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a cool, it's been a cool experience. So you, you finish your career, you dive into, well, you finish your

career with, with the seals and then you go into Blackwater. And then from there, it's about positivity, right? And you start with kids. I listened to the Frog Logic podcast and I loved it. I loved it. And this is a couple is a couple years ago you know but it's like it's uh you had one on anger and american politics and i was like this is fucking gold and i'm doing the math i'm like fuck this right around when trump went in you know like shit was hot it's crazy it's it's it's insane i it we've we've lost the ability to subdue and, you know, and, and listen, we, this is the greatest country by far. And I've been all over the world and been in countries that, you know, are not the greatest

countries, but not even by a long shot, but we've really lost this sense of, of, of acceptance to what the country is. And again, going back to the process, there's a voice for everybody. It's just, you have to follow a longer process, right? Get involved in local politics. What I always recommend to people, and my favorite is going on Facebook and seeing people just slay each other politically, like one video after the other, Fox, CNN. I mean, it's just madness to me. It really comes down to, you know, allowing yourself to hear these opinions and not getting angry about it, right? But anger control, as you guys talk about all the time, is a component of that ego, is a component of fear, all this. But we really have lost that sense of needing to work together,

right? The last time we really felt that, I think, in all genuine seriousness, historically, was probably Korea. And then the Vietnam War, initially, I mean, we went into Vietnam in 58, and it wasn't until 66 that people were like, wait a minute, maybe something's not going right here, right? And the dialogue changed, but, you know, and then the countercultural revolution got us out, which was great. But ever, you know, ever since then, you know, we haven't had the necessity of protecting the process of America, which was impending enough, I think post 9-11, I mean, I remember after that day for months, there were flags on every door. People were willing to work together. It didn't matter where you're from. It didn't matter what culture you were. But that dissipates over, now we're 17 years into the longest two wars in history.

And quite frankly, I'm starting to to go why the hell are certain dudes over there now there is a strategic reality and requirement for you know the impending doom of nuclear nuclearized pakistan and then almost nuclearized iran but you know why do guys still have to go over there and keep dying man i mean what is the mission that's significant where we we we aren't keeping these guys at bay? Or is it a greater context of the military industrial complex? And I'm saying this, and I'm a believer in it, right? I believe in it.

But it goes back to that sense of, hey, man, why is it the dialogue? Why can't we chat with each other anymore? And I think it's a component of time, right? You come on a podcast or you, you go to lunch with somebody and you, you know, it's at the end of the day or a dinner or you break bread, you invite someone over to your house. When the constraint of time is freed, it allows people to settle in and really kind of, Hey, okay. I don't have to make my point because I got to get out of here in 25 minutes. We can listen to each other a little bit better.

Yeah, yeah. Time is a big one, right? And we see that now with kids, having kids and how that culture, like when we were born, there wasn't even fucking cell phones, right? So let alone iPads and shit like that in the internet. Now, I forget what the exact number was, but the average video watched, the most consumed form of media is video. And the average video watched, I think is under 60 seconds. So that's bananas because it shortens the attention span. And then how does that translate into the world? Well, all right. Now I feel completely heard when I dish out that 140 character tweet and say everything that's on my mind, or maybe I put one at the top and then two at the bottom and I get out in two tweets.

Right. But it's like, it's fucking ridiculous. You know, we're, we're never really, and that's also one of the reasons why I've, I'm not on Facebook as often as because they don't have that limit and people will just put their life story up there on a post, right? But still that's not being heard. That's not sitting in front of somebody and actually having a conversation and putting things in context where it's just, it is taken out of context, right? It's just one little slice of how you're feeling and why, and it doesn't allow the back and forth. And because it's not in front of somebody's face, if there is a back and forth, it's often charged because there's no real consequences for mouthing off online. At all. None. There isn't. And that's why you think

back in the day, there's a component. If you went too far with somebody, you could get popped, right? Or that was a component which kind of created the nice framework of civilization. I mean, you might, wow, these guys, he's a SEAL, he's a fighter. Of course, they're going to lead. Why can't we all just get along? Well, we can't. Even the most socially conscious people who believe in a nirvanistic society where there's a freedom to whatever, we're seeing them put constraints on freedom of speech, whether you

like it or not. I mean, you know, Cal Berkeley, who is the cornerstone of the counterculture, them in Michigan, a counterculture revolution who breathed fire into the free speech concept, now is not allowing conservative people to give speeches on their campuses. And that's just madness to me. I like to think of it as, and it's funny, when I started working with the kids, it was like, all right, how are we going to prepare our children for the type of world and how rapidly it's advancing, right? I heard this, I think it was on your show. One of your guests talked about how information, like from the history of information, right, led up to 2003 or something.

And well, that doubles every two years, right? And it grows at this exponential level. So the quality of information, the magnitude of information, how we process it, it goes back to that kind of moral framework we're talking about with our kids and raising them within that. Well, one of those components is like, hey, man, when you de-socialize, you take away the necessity of conversation, the necessity of patience with another person, contextual ideas, sharing common ground, right? When you take that all away, what happens to the framework of society, right? It starts to fray a little bit. It starts to, we get, you know, too fat in the hog for all these concepts and we lose that sense of, hey, there is a governance that exists in the framework of society that we

have to adhere to. And I believe one of the most significant aspects of that is respect for one another's ideas and words. The AI was supposed to just prompt questions and the goal, right, is like the Turing test. Can you tell it's a bot or a human? But it had, through machine learning, it would start to behave like the people it was interacting with. And within 24 hours, it was just dropping the most racist, shitty comments on earth to people. Less than a day, it had learned to be a racist piece of shit you know so like going back to that mirror neuron thing like how much of our algorithms as human beings genius are like that right like how much of of us is a little bit like the computer right it's a little bit like the ai where we're learning from others and we now say like, right? Like, oh, that's, that's, it's okay to be enraged. It's okay to talk shit to people and tell them they're a fucking piece

of shit and all the things that we would never say to them face to face, but I can say it online, right? It's crazy. It's crazy. You know, and, and when you, when you start, what I love is the people that are studying the internet now, right? And studying, you know, social media and how our exchanges are going, in particular with kids. And when I first started, it was a crazy number. Like by the time, this was 2006, right? By the time kids were 13, they'd seen like a million images.

Like when we were kids, it was like 50,000 or something. It was barely anything because there was three channels on TV and most of the time we were outside playing, right? And guess what? By the time I went back to kind of look at that, that number had doubled. This was like by 2010. So it's like 2 million images right now. And then the numbers for, I forget where I just saw this, but average allotted time that a young male boy ages, you know, I think it's like 12 to 15 is connected. It's like six to nine hours a day, right. Or something crazy. And then girls, it's 10 to 14 hours. Yeah. Hopefully there's a shift, right. I know that there's some, there's some private schools. It's like, it's like the political system. It's going so far

left and so far right, that big pendulum swinging. And then hopefully we start to gravitate towards back to this maybe a little bit more centered. And hey, I agree with some shit on the right. I agree with some stuff on the left. And that's okay. And we can have the conversation, right? But in school, especially when you're talking about connectivity and things like that, I know of a couple private schools. I forget the names of them, but I was just reading about them, not allowing any kids

to have, um, they're all, all cell phones have to be turned in and then you can grab them at the end of the day, or you can't have them on. They have to be on airplane mode, but if you're caught with it, it's taken from you. I love it. You know, like, and that's all day at school. That's not, there's no, it's not a lot at recess. It's not a lot on lunch break. Like it's just not a lot period, you know? And if you need to call home or, Hey, I'm out of school earlier or whatever, like you can have access when you're, when you're done with the day. But I mean like that's, it's so important, right? It's really not necessary to be that connected at all times. It really isn't. No way. Cause like you, you made. Because like you made the perfect point. What are you actually digesting in 60 seconds? What are you actually digesting? I mean, how fast, and I'm guilty of it,

when I go through people's, you know, here it is on my Instagram, I try and write something poignant every day, right? My daily dose of frog logic is based on something I really have been thinking about promote the day or a couple of days before to try and delineate that. But then I get on there and I'm going through and I'm seeing my butt like, and just, and stop instead of going, wow, what are they putting out? And what are they trying to get at? And what, and to really stop and ruminate on it, right? But it's, man, we we're conditioned we are behavioral conditioning or operant conditioning man is is those guys were geniuses that that came up with those theories i mean and and the internet is is the primary example of that when you look at these big companies and

what they're doing and how they're doing it and they're they're knocking it out of the park in terms of that now what we're seeing though when you see facebook lose 13.1 billion dollars is you're starting to see the other components in the backlash the greed right the the the the lack of trust by exposing all of our information to everybody and you know and now people are like i'm not you know it's funny uh what's his name? Pride of Gypsies. I love, a new Aquaman. I forget what his name is. Great dude, but. Oh, the new Aquaman. Cal Drogo. What is his name? Jason Momoa. Jason Momoa. And I love him, right? I love his energy. I love his vibe. He's an artist. I was a former artist in college and, and, you know, the book of face, you know, and, and I, I guess

somebody got, stole his ID and was out there and starting, you know, hammer book of face, you know, and I guess somebody got, stole his ID and was out there and starting, you know, hammering people with it. And I go back to those two peaks and I go back to that reality no matter what. And if you don't believe that two peaks exist, just go through human history. And that's why I think it's a requirement whether you're working with children or you're working with athletes or you're working with people or you're on a podcast the information is to say hey listen the temptation is substantial and the allure is is substantial because power is alluring right you can you can bash somebody on the internet and

walk away and feel like oh i feel great about myself right you're actualizing yourself and and demeaning someone else it's crazy but that's how we are and that's what we were being fed through our old cultural indoctrination depending upon where we're from but man wouldn't it be be nice if at the same time, because you hear it, you hear the dialogue out there going, no, we need to be better. We need to be better. We need to be more inclusive. We need to be more open to ideas.

We need to stop worrying about the threats. We got to talk more, but we're not doing it for some reason. And I think, well, not a lot of us. I mean, some of us obviously are trying to do it. So I'm, I'm, I'm waiting for like, you know, I'm, I'm trying to figure out, right. Is there, is it when it hits a top pendulum that drives it back down, you know, and that's the only way it shifts through, you know? Yeah.

Does it, is it always, is, does it inevitably get worse before it gets better? That what i'm saying it might how far do we have to go bro yeah i mean i mean realistically when you think technically if violence is the capacity for which we're civilized we're in the lowest level of violence in human history i mean the lowest or least con amount of conflicts going on there are more democracies everywhere i youruption is still corruption. That's a difficult one, especially there's not somebody coming over our shores that wants to change our way of life. Hey, we can work it out. Let's take time and let's figure it out. Well, I think that in and of itself, what you just mentioned is a part of the problem. Ironically, right? We don't have a threat for death. We don't have a daily worry. We don't have to go out and find our food. We don't have to worry about shit for the most part.

So that gives us this free time to nitpick and be all, you know, up in arms about whatever the case is, you know, whatever the news of the day is, whatever this thing, just whatever Trump just tweeted, whatever the thing that's going on to be enraged by that, right. To let that bother you to the point where it just fucking ruined your day, you know? And there's a lot of people that are affected that way by whatever current thing's going on. And it's because they don't have any real threat in front of them. None.

None. None, brother. None. And now people are going to misconstrue what we're going to say next is, hey, well, they're an advocate for conflict, right? And that ain't it. That's not what I'm saying. I go back to this core concept that, hey, man, pain is going to happen. It's all present. It's never ending. And that's just the way life is, right? And it's going to come in a variety of different ways, whether it's aging, whether it's

tragedy. I don't care what it is, but it's about the perspective of pain. Now, when you look at throughout history, man, and the greatest pain the world's ever known was World War II, right? When you have 75 million human beings die in that span, that's massive. And that was what drove the world towards working together to quash Nazi

fascism and Japanese imperialism, right? Because the threat was real. Now, you know, how do you induce a threat that forces you to be nicer, right? Yeah. How do you do that? What is the question? Well, what are the things that bond us together?

You know, I think, have you read Tribe by Sebastian Younger? Yeah, man. Such a good one. Love him, dude. Such a good one. I remember him on Rogan talking about, and Aubrey's mentioned this a number of times, but, you know, when they interview the people in London,

like what was the time where they felt closest to everybody? It was when the bombs were dropping, right? Yeah. Like, because then they all banded together. Like, my house is yours. Whatever I have is yours. Like, that was the most communal living that had ever existed, right? And the most shared brotherhood that had ever existed because of that threat.

100%. One of the greatest wake-ups I had, you know, going through this divorce last year, having spent so much time on culture, I really became confused. I'm like, all right, I get it. That's a scientific way. But what's the emotional connectivity that crosses borders, right? And I had this thing because I'm going through a really challenging.

I really had my entire interpretation of love shattered into a million pieces, right? And I was flayed out over the spectrum of my existence, right? Going, holy shit, I don't know anything that I thought, right? And had all these people start coming out and buddies that had been through divorces and people that had gone through hardship and whether in losing loved ones or whatever, and created this divorce tribe, right. To pick me back, put my pieces together. And one of the things I came to realize that pain doesn't give a shit what you look like, where you're from. And it's one of the greatest things that we can connect on right like i i you know you being in a former ufc fighter man i think that's the coolest shit on the planet i have

ultimate respect for that uh you know just but brother i don't i don't know what it's like i've never done that walk into the ring which is man just walking with those two guys man my pulse rate shot through the roof i'm like holy shit they're going to get in a fight they know they're getting a fight right i'm like damn man i'm all spot up you know bruce is doing his thing he said i'm like holy cow all right but but i can i i don't understand that superlative but what i can understand is when andre walked out and his face was a mess, I've been punched enough. I know it that I understand loss, right? And losing something I was really passionate about. And so there's this connectivity that we exist in, in pain

and the willingness to share pain with one another is really, I think, the crossover for us. But we don't want to expose our pain, right, in that sense of vulnerability. We want to expose the pain in terms of anger and aggression and posture, which, as you guys talk about all the time, the walls, the unnecessary walls. But man, when you can say, hey, I'm exposed. Man, I'm really hurting. What do you think? You get a genuine answer, I think, for the most part from people. Yeah. And there's a difference in that communication style, whether it's online or face-to-face. It's just that if you're in an argument with somebody and you're like,

well, you said this and I can't fucking stand that and I won't stand for it and blah, blah, blah. And rather than, you know, like I really feel this way right now. And, and that may have been from what you said, but whatever, that's my trigger. That's for me to deal with. But this is how I feel about the situation and just taking it on yourself in a way that is non-blaming, right? And allows the other person some wiggle room, right? Like you always- They're not boxed, right? Yeah, yeah. They're not in the guard. My dad told me when I was young that to never start a fight,

but you can finish fights, but always give your opponent an out. Oh, great advice. Always give them a way out. Great advice. Don't ever back them into a corner. You know, don't, and that can be verbally too. You know, if you're John with somebody, give them some space. Don't, don't just run them into the ground. Right. And I think that so much of the need to be right influences how we communicate with one another. It influences

how we communicate with our loved ones, especially. Oh, for sure. How many times do you get in arguments? And I'm really learning this now, right? Before I, we were an arguing mess. I mean, I'd deploy for, you know, 60, 90 days with the agency, you know, every day was a day I could get blown up or killed or whatever. I come home and I've left my wife with a newborn, my ex-wife with a newborn. And I come home and I expect, you know, give me some, what I need to process this. And she's like, you've been gone and left me with this bullshit. And we weren't able, we weren't going to come off that. And so we, we destroyed one another and destroyed ultimately, I think it

destroyed our marriages. I think we're different people. And that came out through all that destruction. But now it's like, man, I, rises with this new woman I'm in love with. And man, I'm cognizant enough to go, Kyle, take a breath. Why am I pissed? Why do I want to stand and fight when we're not fighting about it? We're trying to actually help one another and to create that space that you're talking about. Hey, and I, and we,

I did it just the other day. Cause I'm, you know, going on the road for a couple of weeks here. And it's like, she, you know, she was, I started doing that, that, uh, uh, ketogenic diet and I'm, I've been an asshole all week because of it. You know, it gets easier. Oh, I hope God bless you. Please, I hope it does. But it was just to just, hey, let my love be the guide and be the post of pivot and say, hey, all right, what are you really saying to me? Because I'm confused right now. But we struggle with that. We allow all those other things to get in the way, man. And I think the great, and it goes back to what we were talking about with that putting yourself in positions that teach us patience, that teach us humility, that teach us respect, that teach us,

that becomes a great challenge. Because we, from day one, you know, around five, six, seven, we learned to compartmentalize fear and stray away from it and push it instead of allowing fear to be the great teacher for us. Yeah, brother. Yeah. Yeah. I think another good tool, I'm going to interview this guy, Dr. Isaiah Hankel on Thursday. And he was talking about start with the end in mind. He has a TED talk on that. Start with the end in mind, right? And work your way back. And that's really the thing that's helped me in pretty hard conversations to have is what is the end goal here? Well, if it's with my wife, like I just state it, I love you. I want this to work. I don't want any issues. I don't like arguing

and work your way back from that point. Great advice. Right out the gate. Look, I love you. I'm sorry. Let's, let's talk about this and step back from that point, the end point of love, right? Whatever that is. And that's how he uses that for more towards goal attainment and things like that. Know what you want out of life. What is, you know, what does the vision board look like? Does it include travel? Does it include friends and laughter and all these components that go outside of wealth and success and the shit that we all really try to focus on. Right. You know, like how would you archetype the best possible life? Right.

And as you start to think of those things, if you have that vision in mind, it becomes easier to backtrack from that end point and put those things into place. It really is. And I love that you started it out. I love you. Let's go back. I mean, the love is the cornerstone of all, of everything we have, right? If you, and I know now there's no such thing as perfect love, right?

Other than, you know, I'm a faithful guy, I'm a Christian. And so I believe there's a perfection within my faith in Christ and God through that. But with us, with us, you us, who we are as human beings and those two peaks that exist, man, redefining that love on a daily basis in those relationships that truly mean the most to us becomes the great challenge. So I love the concept of saying, hey, I love you, but I'm struggling with this. Help me figure it out. Let's deconstruct it and help me figure it out. Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was some kind of bizarre rule or law out there that you had to start every conversation with, hey, man, I love you, but let's help me get to that component. right? It was funny. There was someone posed this photographer that I'm following.

And I love following photographers because through a different prism, they show us the beauty of life. And he had these two square boxes. And this was the before and after picture of him saying to somebody, meeting them, hey, can I take your picture? Oh, okay. You're beautiful. And then that was substantial within that spectrum, right? Where do we lose the faith in that wiring? Again, where does that path go into two different places? Is it at 14, 15 when we're trying to find the hierarchy of our place in these teeny little groups? Is it when we get older and we've experienced some? Is it when we're at the place you and I are at where we're like, okay, that really isn't important anymore. And now I can define the core of my purpose within that spectrum of love. Man, it's about that influence and where it comes and at what time. But I'm a firm believer

wholeheartedly that love is the key, man. Because I'll tell you what, I've seen enough hate and I know that shit doesn't work. Brother, we killed it. We did it, my man. You got another one coming up here with Aubrey. And I think his will release before ours does. I'll probably release this end of October. Okay. But where can people find you? Where can they listen to you with your podcast with Marcus? Thank you.

I'm go to the name of podcast is the Team Never Quit Podcast with Marcus Luttrell. Any media device that has podcasts, if typing in on itunes just type in team are the first one that pops up subscribe there you can go to the website at tnqpodcast.com if you want to follow me i'm at team frog logic uh websites teamfroglogic.com and man that's it i want to say something to you though man and i was really excited to say this, you know, having been a warrior myself and realizing that life is, is a lot more than that, right. And all the components of the drivers that push us towards that existence to, to meet somebody like you who realizes that that's not the source

is really powerful for me because it makes me have faith that I can let that go. I don't have to carry the shield anymore. I don't have to live in the world and I can feel fulfilled by not being in that space because you do that so well, Kyle. And I want to just thank you for being an example for me on that. Thank you, brother.

Thank you very much. You're welcome. It's been fucking amazing having you on. We'll definitely run it back in the near future. And I look forward to listening to you on Aubrey. Thank you so much, brother. Awesome, brother. Thank you.

Thanks, y'all. Thank you for listening. Leave us a five-star review if you thought that podcast was fucking amazing like i did uh and as always go to on it.com slash podcast for 10% off all supplements and food products