Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #72 JP Sears

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

JP Sears is a YouTuber, comedian, emotional healing coach, author, speaker, world traveler, and curious student of life. His work empowers people to live more meaningful lives. JP is also the author of “How To Be Ultra Spiritual,” (Sounds True Publishing). He is very active with his online videos where he encourages healing and growth through his humorous and entertainingly informative videos, including his hit Ultra Spiritual comedy series, which have accumulated over 300 million views. JP stops by to discuss his spiritual influences, plant medicines, and channels his inner Oprah with Kyle for one of the best episodes yet. Enjoy! Connect with JP: Awakenwithjp: https://bit.ly/2BiErEt Howtobespiritual: https://bit.ly/2RGcBaE Twitter: @AwakenWithJP Youtube: https://bit.ly/2i5DgQn Facebook: https://bit.ly/2Bk7NlF Show Notes: Sean Hyson article with JP - https://bit.ly/2vt0ki3 Paul Chek - https://bit.ly/2D50dvs Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch Book 1 - https://amzn.to/2Gmca30 Sex at Dawn - https://amzn.to/2UB4cHd John Mcmullan - Journeys of wisdom - https://bit.ly/2RCdNeT Eckhart Tolle - The Power of Now - https://bit.ly/2QzZqrx James Hollis - Through the Dark Wood - https://amzn.to/2S7rCHp Eric Godsey - https://bit.ly/2MNaVey Kambo Cleanse Ceremony - https://bit.ly/2TvoMZs Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk Get 10% off at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/podcast/ Connect with Onnit on: Twitter | https://twitter.com/Onnit       Instagram | https://bit.ly/2NUE7DW Subscribe to Human Optimization Hour  iTunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY

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take I have on this intro. So we're good. This is going to be the last one. I promise. I've been rambling because of my fucking excitement. This is for sure. One of the favorite podcasts I've ever launched. He's been on the show before he was with Dr. Kirk Parsley, Christine wise, his wife, Amber, and my wife, Natasha, as well as myself. He's the host of Awaken with JP, who I've been a guest on. He's been on a number of podcasts, been on Aubrey Marcus' podcast. One of my favorites, which we'll link to in the show notes, is from our good friend, Paul Cech, who recorded a three-hour podcast with JP on Paul Cech's new podcast, Living in 4D. So if you like this one, dive into the other ones. And you should know who JP is because he's a savage. I think he also is

the author of 12 and a Half Steps to Spiritual Superiority, which is his comical play as he's a conscious comedian. So he's got a lot of comedy based around spirituality, which is refreshing and new. And he's really carving a path for himself that is unique to anyone else on the earth. And he's an absolute fucking treat to have sitting in front of me. So it's been a pleasure.

I know you guys are going to fucking dig this one. Thanks for tuning in. Here we go. We are actually going this time. So you missed the fun we were having earlier when I was telling JP how to use that microphone properly and explaining that it's good to have it like a quarter inch past the lips and inside the mouth. And JP instinctively curled his lips over his teeth to protect the microphone, which was absolutely classic. Instinctively.

Like it was just like hit this primal reflex. Old habits die hard. Phallic symbol. You know, it's just. You also gripped the bottom of the microphone softly, which was a nice added touch. Yeah. It felt like I was just being polite.

Like I want to show some passion, but at the same time, we're going to be tender while we're doing what we're doing. That's true. Well, we got a lot to discuss. I learned a lot from you, Kyle. You do? Yeah.

What do you learn from me? Well, all those things you just mentioned are the only things I've ever learned from you. Well, that's a lot to take in. So let it settle, and maybe we'll get some more learning from one another today. I absolutely loved your three-hour podcast with Paul Cech.

All right. I loved it too. Just absolutely loved it. So good. And when I was at your house last, you were talking about how powerful an experience that was. And I want to dive into that podcast with you and what that arc has meant for you. But let's rewind a little bit. I know there's some people that have already heard your background and things like that, but I do want to paint a picture for those that are new to you. How did you grow up? What was family like? Yeah, family is good question. I grew up normal looking family, but like any normal looking family, there's abnormalities underneath the surface,

like let's present that good outer appearance to the world. But my parents would slinky back and forth with each other, split up, get back together. So that was a, looking back, I could see an influential time in my childhood from about seven till age 11. And I think during that time, I really started emotionally disconnecting from myself, took on the position of, I need to be the strong, stable one in the family. Mom might be upset a lot, crying in bed because dad, her and my dad are splitting apart. Yeah, you got to be the glue that holds everything together. Absolutely. So I'm seven. I'll be the strong, stable one because the rest of the world doesn't seem stable. Now, I realize people grow up in really horrific circumstances. So by

comparison, it wasn't that, but that's what I knew. So it was unstable for me. And man, and also humor. So emotional disconnection. And then I would deal with things through humor. Like inherently looking back, I can say like, well, that felt really insecure to have parents splitting apart, ended up staying together. And like, I always remember my mom saying, if me and your dad get divorced, we're going to have to sell the house and you'll have to change schools. That scared the shit out of me. Like for a seven, eight-year-old, nine-year-old, just like, oh, I couldn't imagine

anything worse. So that felt really insecure inside. And I didn't know how to be 1980s Oprah vulnerable with Alec Doolittle. Let's be vulnerable here. Let's put Brene Brown on the record player. I had no idea how to do that. And of course, I had to be the strong, stable one, so feeling insecure wasn't part of my vocabulary. So one of the ways I escaped my insecurities was through humor. Class clown, make people laugh, and my family, friends, teachers. And because each escape attempt I'd execute with humor,

it would bring relief for about three minutes. Not very long term. So then I got to read someone else like, okay, what do I got to do to make this person laugh? So, I don't know, 10,000 hours, Malcolm Gladwell, if I got that. But I got a lot of repetitions of reading people, what's going to make this person laugh? Almost like it got to an intuitive level, and then delivering humor to make them laugh. And when I would make them laugh, I would feel like I mattered. I'd feel like I was something and I'd feel secure for three minutes, which was a compensatory way of escaping from the actual insecurities I had inside. So man, and also growing up, sports were a thing for me. I mean, I was never going to be the world-class all-star, like His Highness's company that I'm sitting with. But I was always one of the best on the teams, best in my school.

So I played everything growing up, soccer, baseball, football, basketball, track and field, everything that was available to me. And then excelling in sports also gave me a bit of an outlet. I think I can see like, I wasn't allowing myself to ever get angry about what I was getting angry about, but some of that passion could get misdirected into sports. So man, at least have an outlet without actually having the tools to sift through and wade through the stuff that's going on inside, you can at least dump some of that energy and stress outward. Absolutely. And have it not look like anger. I have this program inside of me that says, if I get angry, I'm unlovable. And even still to this day, I'm 37 years old. I'm still working on

unraveling that because when I get angry, and let's say it's something to do with my wife, it is scary as hell for me to be honest with my anger, even in a healthy way, because that program says you are unlovable if you're angry, JP. Nobody could love you. That still plays. So playing sports, it's like, all right, I get to be angry, camouflage. Like I remember in eighth grade football, my team was awesome. And I was on offense. I was a wingback. And one of my friends, Kurt Hartman,

he would always break these long runs. He was a running back. And we'd be running on a field. He's almost in the end zone. And I would turn around and just nail some poor bastard on the other team. He's like- Fucking ear hole. Running 30 yards behind the guy who's almost in the end zone. I'd just smash him.

It's like legally, you can. It's like, I'm blocking. But it's like, no, I was angry while trying to pretend like I wasn't angry. So yeah, I grew up dysfunctional as hell while doing my best to appear functional. And I think that's part of the human soup we all grow up in. Do you recognize your dysfunction you grew up in? And do you also recognize your dysfunction is very functional, especially if you reach a point in your adult life where you're reconciling the pain, the turmoil that you were trying to escape. So, Kyle, because you didn't ask, I'm going to answer the question. Perfect.

Yeah. I just love... That's the telepathy. We've got the Wi-Fi going here. Yeah. I love when I talk so insistently that you can't ask the questions and I ask your questions for you. Good. And then you keep going. So keep going. Keep going. You can't stop now. So I think there's a paradox. We all have the opportunity to embark on, I think as part of our journeys, where we can look at our dysfunction, bring new consciousness to it, more feeling, and turn the dysfunction into something that's really functional for us, the curse becomes a blessing. So when I looked at how I would use humor to escape myself when I was a kid, and like,

thank God that's what I did. Like, it gave me a great skill, still serves me so well. It wasn't drugs. I wasn't hurting anybody. Wasn't really hurting myself. But now the dysfunction becomes more functional because I do my best to use humor to connect to myself. Use humor not to escape my pain, but process my pain. And I think't have to be a comedian to have the opportunity to turn your dysfunction into a functional skill and a functional blessing in your life. But I think it's something we all have the opportunity for. Yeah.

Well, we, fuck, man, we're covering so much right here. Talk a little bit about, I want to paint this picture about how you got into spirituality. We had an excellent article that Sean Heysen wrote with you, a little interview back in the day. We'll link to it in the show notes, which is awesome. I don't want to dive too much into that. But you grew up kind of like fake Catholic. Your mom was not practicing, and your dad was atheist.

Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. I like to say I grew up pretend Catholic. So, I mean, I wasn't molested by the priest and the whole nine yards, but still I was raised in a small treatment. People get mad at that, but that is so statistically like in the zeitgeist, unfortunately. So yeah, my mom, she was all Catholic and everything, but my dad was an atheist. But still, he went along and said to my mom, like, all right, if you want to raise the kids Catholic, have them go through their first communion, you can do that. And so we did that, but we never went to church on a regular basis.

Like if my grandparents were around, my mom would take us to church and pretend like we always went. We're like, we don't always go to church, mom. And that gave me a taste of religion. And I honestly, looking back, I think it was a great balance. It gave me a taste of religion without being overwhelmed by it. I know some people spill out a childhood traumatized by the overwhelm of losing themselves in the church, their family. It can be pretty horrendous. Yeah, a lot of fear-based stuff.

That's a terrible way to live, to live in fear, right? That goes for anyone. But to live in fear because of what you're taught when you're growing up, like that programming that we have, that's a tough thing to unravel. It is. I was trying to be all delicate and PC, and you're like, yeah, that's a tough thing to unravel. It is. I was trying to be all delicate and PC, and you're like, yeah, that's a terrible way to be brought up. It's like, yeah, that's what I do. It fucking sucks. No one wants to live in fear, right? No one wants to live in fear.

So you have that nice balance, and then you're going through, is it college? And you start to figure out, I don't want to fucking do this? Yeah. So the spirituality trajectory, it goes from a little bit of pretend Catholicism growing up, but also in a way, an open-minded dad who also close-minded too. He has his beliefs, but it's open-minded relative to mom. So I graduate high school, go to college, don't have a clue what I want to study. So I literally didn't study anything.

And I dropped out of college after three months slash got kicked out because like, you couldn't fail your classes more. Like I just wasn't going. And looking back, I realized like, wow, I have this ability to have an inability to learn about things that don't feel purposeful to me. I shut down and I won't learn about something unless I feel there's a purpose to it. That's what I was doing in college for the three months I went,

and it scared the hell out of me. I'm thinking, do I have a learning disability? What the hell is my future going to be like? Am I going to dig ditches? Nobody digs ditches anymore. So even, I won't even have a job. And so right as I was dropping out of college, I connected with Paul Cech, not him personally, but his videotape correspondence courses he was putting out through the Cech Institute. Back on VHS.

Back on VHS. So there was a trainer at the gym I was working out at. She started studying his courses and she'd see me in there working out and be like, you know, JP, I know you have a relatively intelligent way of working out. I can see you're pretty mindful with this. You might be interested in this Paul Cech guy. I said, maybe. And I see her excitement about it. So, all right, let me check this out. So, I ordered, I think it was a seven-hour scientific back training. So good.

Course at the time. Back training and core conditioning are fucking two of my all-time favorites. Absolutely. So, I got that and I studied the piss out of that thing. And it was the first time in my life that I felt passionate about learning about something. I mean, I was taking notes. I probably had the whole course transcribed. And so that's what I wanted to do. I want to be a Czech practitioner. I want to keep studying Paul's correspondence courses, then go take his in-person Czech practitioner courses with him. That's what I wanted to do.

And something was awoken inside of me. Awakened? Waken. Awoken? It's funny. An awokening. That's part of my brand. Awaken with JP.

I don't even know how the fuck to say it. And woke AF. So you're just awoken. I am very awoken. And then just briefly finishing this piece of the story, about a year later, I went and took my first in-person course with Paul Cech. Had a massively deep connection with him. Was this the HLC one? No, this was at the time called Czech Practitioner

Level One. And now they've restructured some things. They've got what's called Exercise Coach before that. But this was the entry-level course. It was over the course of nine days in Minneapolis, Minnesota, July of 2001. And I had a massively great connection with him, which I didn't expect. I was rocking in there, the youngest one, the most inexperienced one in the course. Yet it turns out I was the most prepared. And Paul really recognized that and respected it. And I was making him laugh the whole time.

And he could tell I was really dedicated and respectful of his work. And during that course, many things happened. Life kind of changed. But one of them was, I think my active path of spirituality was awakened. I'll use that word. Because I saw it, here's Paul Cech, rock star in my eyes at the time. Now I see he's another human being. He's awesome, but had him on a big time pedestal as I was just 20 years old. And he would just mention a few abstract spiritual, emotional concepts. One of them was, OJP, your neck's out of alignment. And we were doing these tests and then like, I could see, oh yeah, my neck is out of alignment. What's that from? And he's like,

well, it could be from this, this, this, and it could be emotional issues with your dad. I'm like, what the fuck? No, there's my neck. Well, it's on the right side of your body. So that's the masculine side. Now we got to address that. Yeah. Yeah. So I was fascinated with that. And shortly thereafter, Paul recommended that I read a book called Conversations with God by Neil Donald Walsh, book one, which is, it sounds like a little dogmatically religious, but it is super open minded, spiritual, philosophical book. And that really initiated me into become curious about the world that's unknown, the spiritual world, the aspects of life that we all know are there, but they're beyond our five senses. And man, I just got curious as hell about them.

And it took Paul Cech to get me into it because I so respected him at the time. I could see like, wow, he's interested. And like, he sees like value in this world that I always thought was like airy fairy and like make believe. Yeah. And for such a, I mean, Paul, for anybody who's seen him is just built like He-Man, incredibly strong, even right now at 57, stronger than I am at 57. And it's cool to see somebody that has that type of physical stature and presence who's also that into this whole other world, which really is probably a bit more important than what we do here in our physical bodies, right? It is. And it's inspirational as hell. And I think it's something like you and Aubrey embody. I do my best to embody it as well,

though I don't have the physical stature of you or Aubrey. You look great in a thong. I've already seen that. Thank you. I was fishing for that compliment. But the old world used to be this one-dimensional selection where you're either the big, strong person who embodies the physical, like you're the warrior, or you're the intellectual or the spiritual person, the sage wearing a robe and your body's kind of whittling away. And I think either one of those worlds unto itself is incomplete. But when you marry the warrior with the wise sage, it's like, all right, now we got something exciting. We've got something holistic. And I think that's one of the reasons why Paul is so inspiring, you, Aubrey. And I love how there's more and more people embodying that sort of warrior, be in the body and really reach the potential with your body while also being in your mind, your heart, your spirit, and reach the potential of your heart and spirit and also realize they feed on each other. The more you develop your body,

like I was in my freezing cold pool this morning, that's a very physical, seemingly physical practice, but I think I get the real benefit in my mind, in my heart. It's a physical practice that teaches my mind, embrace discomfort, and it teaches my heart, allow discomfort to be there. How to stay calm in the storm, in the face of danger. A hundred percent. Yeah. It's such a beautiful practice to have that. I think that

one of the failures of some spiritual texts is to place that so much higher than that of the body that we have disregard for our bodies. But we chose to come. Well, whether we chose to come here or not, we're here now. We can agree on that. And while we're here, we have bodies. So why not embrace that? It's our only vehicle for this life. We may get to trade in for others, depending what you believe, and I certainly do, but this is the only time I get to have Kyle Kingsbury's body. So why not respect that, treat it as a temple, do everything I can so that that becomes this base layer foundation that I can build all things off of. Hell yeah. Enjoy the body. It is a gift. I mean, sometimes we feel sensations in our body that are uncomfortable, and we start to treat the

gift like it's a curse. It's like we're looking at something we've never done before. We get the butterflies in our stomach, kind of the stinging sensation in our chest, and it doesn't feel good. So we think, oh, I better not do that thing. But what a gift, what a joy to be able to have a feeling experience of life, not just a knowledgeable experience, but a feeling experience. And then I think the wiser we get in life, we start to feel like, oh my God, that is uncomfortable. That's the biofeedback telling me I got to do that thing because nothing we've ever done that's meaningful in our life just feels like a easy breezy shoulder massage. The meaningful always comes with a discomfort because we're always breaking down our comfort zone to find new levels of meaning,

to find new levels of growth. And our bodies allow that to happen. And also like we can have straightforward pleasure with our bodies. Yeah. Enjoy's like enjoy that they're designed for it. Right. I mean, like, I don't know if you've read sex at dawn and this isn't, I've had sex at dawn, but I've never read it. Okay. Excellent book. It's not, and I'm not saying like everyone should do open relationship. I'm not saying that at all. Both are incredibly hard, open and monogamy. But in that book, you begin to realize, let's unpack some of that domestication of man. Some of, as Domigo Ruiz would say, like, let's unpack some of how we've been programmed and specifically from a lot of the world's religions and Christianity with female sexuality and how we should have sex and who we should have sex with.

And as we unpack that, we can at least all agree that men and women both have that fire, that burning desire to express themselves sexually. And in those experiences, when you can finally take away the baggage and the programming, you really can experience the fullness of sex, which is also one of life's great treats. It is, man. And you know what we need to do, Kyle? We need to cut everybody's clit and foreskin off. Just start cutting the whole dick off. Genital mutilation. Which I think is, you know, the genital mutilation, and I'm circumcised, so I've gone through it, it's indicative of this. I think there's shame around pleasure, especially sexual pleasure.

And luckily, I think we're starting to emerge out of that as a society. But I also think the shame around sexual pleasure is indicative around the rest of the pleasure that the body vehicle, the meat suit can produce. And man, I think sometimes we hypnotize ourselves into thinking it's more spiritual if I'm not enjoying this. It's like, well, what if it's actually less spiritual to not enjoy your body? The design team gave you that fucking body. Do you think they did it by mistake? Do you think they accidentally incarnated you into this body temple that's capable of beautiful joy and pleasure? It's like, what a gift. It's like, what if as a kid you were given all these presents under the Christmas tree

and like, oh, those gifts that I was given apparently aren't for me. I better throw those away instead of enjoying them. But I think this is a gift. It really is. Yeah, there's no question about it. So what was the name one more time of the book that first got you into the path of spirituality? Yeah, it's called Conversations with God, Book One by Neil Donald Walsh. We'll link to that in the show notes. What have been some of the other major spiritual influences from a, who have been, so people, books, things like that. And then we'll dive into what has been, so psychedelics, plant medicines, and anything else, meditation. Yeah. Some of the who's, so obviously Paul Cech big time in my self-development, spiritual development. And then when I was 23, yeah, 23, actually 22, not that anybody gives a shit. I battle myself. Was it 22, 23?

It's 22. No, it was 22. It might've been. What's my astrology report today? It's 22. I hooked up with another awesome mentor, a guy named John McMullen. He runs an organization called Journeys of Wisdom. And he was immensely impactful. He's one of these wise people who, he's just an angel inside of a human body. So intuitive, just shockingly so. And such a powerful message.

So I took hundreds of hours of courses with him, did a lot of one-on-one work. So John McMullen's been a huge influence. And then I think as we trickle into the author stage of people who have influenced me, man, certainly Eckhart Tolle. I think his book is incredibly timeless. The title says it all, The Power of Now. It's a very timeless title. Yeah, Power of Now and New Earth, both absolutely incredible. For sure. Conversations with God. And then there's another author who has been very influential. He's a Jungian psychologist named James Hollis. And he's got, I think he has like 13 books. One of his books, I've listened to it on audio. Phenomenal.

In fact, I know Paul Cech has listened to it quite a bit. He gives it out like candy. It's called Through the Dark Wood by James Hollis. I'll link to that as well. Holy crap. Talk about helping you find perspective on the hero's journey of your life, no matter where you're at, creating perspective to make sense of how things are, no matter if they're going good, bad, somewhere in the middle. Man, like so amazing. I've listened to that thing so many times.

I'll probably start re-listening to it again today because I'm now remembering it. So James Hollis has been certainly amazing. And man, I think, yeah, those have been some of the most influential people. And I will also say, when I see people who are living from a place of inspiration as opposed to fear-based, fear-based being like, all right, let's create a sense of certainty in life. Like, let's get the stable job that's not exciting to me and get married to a girl who, like, whatever, she probably won't leave me.

So that feels certain. I don't know if I'm in love with her. We'll have 2.5 kids and 1.75 cars. And that sense of certainty, to me, it's a very fear-based way of living. And I understand why some people live that way. And I live that way at times. I do my best to minimize it. But on the contrast, it's people who are living an inspired life. And I think there's curiosity, mystery, and risk that are always associated with people living the inspired life. And I think what inspires me most about people living an inspired life, yourself, Aubrey, Paul, I do my best to live up to the standard as well, is you can tell those people, you, you're listening to something

that's not tangible. It's like the call, the call that comes from our heart, our spirit, whatever wants to live through us, like there's a call. And the people living an inspired life become a student of listening to that call and then living it. Not just like hearing it, but then obeying it. And I think then those people become the kings and queens in life. And I think from an archetypal point of view, I look at a king or queen, they are the biggest servant in the kingdom. The illusion, when you start to think of the immature tyrant king or tyrant queen, yeah, it's like, all right, they're bossing people around and they're the one in charge, everybody's serving them. No, that's the immature expression of a king, like a Hitler. But the true embodiment of a real kingly or queenly energy,

they are the servant. They're serving a higher purpose. That's why they wear a crown. The crown is the symbolic reminder to them, obey it, live it, they're living a life of purpose, but also they have the warrior mentality of being willing to encounter risk and do things that scare them. Because the inner call, it never tells us to keep doing the same thing over and over again and reinforce the coffin of our comfort zone. The call is never about playing it safe. The call is always about bringing more light to your life and usually contributing to humanity in a beautiful way, which means we're innovating. We're somehow cutting an edge. We're somehow going against the grain. We're somehow cutting an edge. We're somehow going against the grain.

We're somehow risking rejection. And we're certainly risking going through the dark woods of our life because the call, there's not the certainty, there's only the mystery to it. It's like when I started doing my best to answer my call, it was calling me to let go of the senses of certainty, like let go of my coaching practice. It's like, whoa, what's there? Like I'm doing this comedy thing and like... Who am I now?

Who am I now? Absolutely. Aubrey's starting on it. It's just Paul Cech starting his institute and letting go of what he had before. So I get so inspired watching people answer their call, live their inspired life. So in that sense, anyone who I see do it is a teacher for me. And I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. There's a, um, that the whole thing is great, but I meant to say that the teacher that that can be anyone,

right. And so like one of the things I realized in jujitsu was white belts only learn from black belts and purple belts. And, you know, maybe if you get a good blue belt, that kind of thing, when you're low man on the totem pole, you really learn from the upper belts. But once you get to black belt, you can learn from everyone. You learn from the white belts. You learn from everyone you go with and you teach as you teach. You learn, right? And I think Chris Ryan was saying like, whatever you want to write about, don't write about what you know, write about what you want to learn. I love that. Because as you get into it, then you're going to really dive into that.

You're going to navigate through a whole new field that opens up. And it sounds like that advice, write about what you want to learn, that takes you into the mystery, the dark woods of our life. Not the certainty, like write about what you know. Like, all right, cool. Maybe there's purpose to that, but you're not expanding. I think we expand in mystery, not certainty. In fact, one of my, James Hollis, one of my favorite authors, he has a quote I absolutely love. He paraphrased it,

it's something along the lines of of the quality of your life will be proportional to the degree in which you can tolerate ambiguity. And ambiguity, that's just a fancy way of saying the more you can tolerate mystery, the better your life is going to be. But the more you're afraid of mystery and won't tolerate the sensations of the mystery, the I don't knows, the fears that are provoked, the more you won't tolerate the sensations of the mystery that I don't know is the fears that are provoked, the more you won't tolerate that, the less quality you'll feel in your life. And man, it seems so true to me. I can't wait to dive into this book. I know we got, have you, you've met

Eric Godsey before, right? Yeah. Yeah. Has he been on your podcast yet? He hasn't. I would love to have him. You got to do the exchange. He's amazing, But he's huge into Carl Jung, so I know he'll be really into your buddy Hollis. You talked about some things that I think are absolutely critical. One, like how we face the mystery and how we dispel fear of the unknown, right? So there is a certain level of acceptance, as Eckhart Tolle talks about, where we have to accept what is, but then as we move into that thing that might be scary or new often that requires surrendering to the fact that you don't know what the fuck's going on yeah and i've gotten a lot of these downloads specifically with surrender and letting go from plant medicine journeys how has

your trip down the rabbit hole shaped your life and where you're at today? The plant medicine rabbit hole? Yeah. I've had some experiences. And I'm not someone who can say I've had my life changed by plant medicines. I think I've had some things enhanced by them. And my first medicine experience was 5-MeO-DMT. So let's jump off the big cliff first, I guess. That's base jump from Mount Everest. Without the parachute. And that was back in 2006. And so I had some experiences there and I got away from DMT and any plant medicine for a while, like a good roughly 10 year period, because I was scared I was going to lose myself to them. I have a very addictive personality. And I know people

say like, you know, JP, a lot of these mushrooms, whatever, it's not addictive. It's like, yeah, chemically, maybe not, but gambling isn't chemically addictive, but people lose themselves to shit all the time. And I was afraid of that. So I took a step back and had some pretty mind-blowing what the fuck experiences. In a good way with DMT also, I had probably the worst experience of my life on DMT, just both polarities. And then actually right before I stepped away from those back in the mid-2000s, I had probably the most profound psychedelic experience of my life. And it was the first time I did LSD. Holy shit, that was amazing. I mean, I felt like I was very much talking to something beyond me the whole day. I felt so connected, like, holy fuck, I'm the flowers, the flowers are

me, and like, oh, this is amazing. And as I was having this conversation with what felt like it was something beyond me, yet somehow within me, and it is me the whole time, just the me of who I forgot I am, I was asking these questions, like, what's my purpose? And just like the profound questions that we would all want to ask. I had this notepad. It was such a like, like if you were writing a movie about Guy on his first LSD trip, this is how you'd want to do it. Like as I was taking notes, I kept writing in circles, like a spiraling outward circle, not like writing line to line line. But like literally I was turning my body around the notebook as I was writing.

So the next day to like read my notes, like I was having to like turn the whole page. It was trippy. Was it spiraled into the Fibonacci sequence? It was a little, it was super sacred. Just simple spirals. But I was getting profound answers. It really, in surrender, you mentioned that word, that was a big reoccurring theme of

answer I was getting. And a lot of the answers were, I mean, it was all reminders. You know, the whole day was filled with sensations of what I'm learning right now as this voice is seemingly answering me. It's not telling me anything new. It's telling me things I've always known, but I've just forgot that I've known them. So it's like that found within kind of sensation. And one of the things that I was being reminded of is I am very well supported. Like, life is for me, not against me. So that was profound. I mean, so like that, yeah, that LSD experience, I might slightly retract my statement from five minutes ago of like,

yeah, not really life-changing. That was profound. Was it life-changing? I don't know, maybe, but that was pretty profound. And then fast forward probably 12 years till my next psychedelic experience, which was about a year and a half ago in Costa Rica with ayahuasca. And that was a beautiful experience. You do it one night or like three nights in a week? This was, it was a one-nighter. Okay. Yeah.

And yeah, it was a beautiful experience. And to me, the lady running the ceremony, she's a shaman, like super reputable. And I can't talk about ayahuasca without the disclaimer of who you're drinking ayahuasca with, who's running the ceremony is the most important thing. If it's some shithead who's got a hookup, like, dude, I've got ayahuasca brew, let's get in the living room. Conven convenience isn't the route here. It's someone who knows what the fuck they're doing is the route. And really you only get that through word

of mouth. It's not necessarily convenient, but it's essential. So anyway, the woman, she was singing the Icarus all night. And as I started feeling the ayahuasca, it was amazing. Like, wow, I feel her songs. Like, they sound amazing, but they feel more amazing. Yeah, yeah. And I was having this sensation of like, all right, eventually I got to either get up, fumble my way to the restroom or shit my pants. I think I'd rather shit my pants

because I don't want to miss a minute of her singing. Then my arm starts doing this snake term or dancing thing with the songs. It felt like I wasn't controlling it. I don't know, but it was a beautiful experience. And ayahuasca is something I am called to have more experiences with it. I'm not necessarily in a rush, but when the intersections are right, they're not forced. I'll look forward to going back and seeing what's next for me to learn from that plant. Yeah. It's a big, I mean, it's maybe one of the most powerful. Obviously, you could argue 5 5meo is and things of that nature but anything that's dmt based just it fits right in we've got we've got locks in our

brain receptor sites and these keys come in and they're the exact fucking match yeah you know we that it's there for a reason it's by design all things is this is the concert of life it's not a fucking mistake it's not coincidence or happenstance it It's here. And I think they're here to help remind us of who we are, the true nature of why we're here and to gift us those lessons. Because one of the beautiful things, and this has certainly been the case for me, is that it's different every time you go. And so it's not like you get this, all right, well, surrender. I got that. Like if you forget about surrender, that may come up again for you. But if you start to master and embody what you're learning, then you can be gifted some new information. You get to graduate and move on, right?

Yeah. Like you don't have to repeat third grade. It's like, no, okay, you learned well in third grade. And some of what you learned in third grade, that's still going to apply. You don't forget what you know. You keep it and move on. So you get to go to fourth grade if you're a good student. But I think sometimes the same way people can become seminar junkies in the self-growth phase. It's like, dude, which seminar are you going to this weekend instead of living your life? It's like, yeah, man, I'm doing this one for the 12th time. I think this is going to be the breakthrough. I think people can become the plant medicine junkies instead of actually applying what you learn and the embodiment of it to your life.

You can essentially become habituated into like, I need this seminar again. I need the plant medicine again. And like, man, two weeks have gone by since I've done a ceremony. Yeah, it's because you're not integrating. So I think integrating, and my wife, she's been working with ayahuasca a lot for the past five or six years. And she always talks about how the most important part of an ayahuasca ceremony is what you do after the ayahuasca ceremony, the integration. Like, yeah, you went through third grade, but are you integrating that into your life? Are you taking on, if you were taught about surrender, are you actually going into your life and practicing the

terrifying art of surrender and embodying that? Or is your ego taking over and it's like, nope, control, control, control, avoid, resist. Yeah. Resist, resist, resist. Yeah. Yeah. It just blows me away. I mean, obviously I've beat the drum before on plant medicines and certainly they have changed my life. And I feel like there is much to be discovered there. And it's already in a place where it's this wonderful technology for us to have access to. But as our buddy Tate Fletcher said, it's not a panacea. It doesn't fix anything for you. You have to do the work.

This thing doesn't heal you. It doesn't fix you. It may bring awareness to the thing that heals you. But it's walking through it. That actually makes it work, you know? For sure. It's like, there's a reason why you are part of your life because you are needed to live your life and evolve. You can't have some plant consciousness step in. It's like, okay, now you take over, you do the hard shit and I'll just sit on the sidelines. It's like, all right, now take over, you do the hard shit and I'll just sit on the sidelines. It's like, all right, now having the plant medicines, it's like maybe you're an athlete,

now you have a better head coach who can call in better plays, more sophisticated plays, which honestly challenges you more, challenges the athletes' physical and mental faculties to live up to their potential. And I think the plant medicines are doing that. They don't make anything easier. I think they actually make things harder in a good way because they ask you to be a more astute student of life unless you become like the seminar junkie, plant medicine junkie. Instead of learning the lessons- Did 100 ceremonies this year. No big deal. Yeah. I have no relationships with people in my life because they're scary, but plant medicine.

Have you had experiences with combo? I have not. And I wanted to because of the immune system implications, the fact that your body will create... Combo is this frog poison that they put darts in your body. implications, the fact that your body will create, combo is this frog poison that they put darts in your body. Typically, the indigenous would use it for hunting purposes, but it causes, Amber Lyon was on Rogue and she was talking quite a bit about this. And this is what got me interested in it was the fact that you basically go through this hellish experience where you vomit, you have a fever, a migraine, you might shit your pants over the course of four or five hours. But then after that, for six months to a year, your body's immune system is like Wolverine. Like you basically

can't get sick. And it's done in a natural way. So when I think about the things, what moves the fucking needle in life? It is doing the thing that's uncomfortable, right? And the more uncomfortable it is, usually the bigger the payoff, right? If I get into 55 degree water, that's cold. And I'm going to have to breathe through that and I'm going to have to quiet my mind. But if I get into 35 degree water, I got fucking work to do. It's a different layer. I can stay in 55 degree water for a long time work to do. It's a different, it's a different layer. I can stay in

55 degree water for a long time and not get hypothermia at 35 different scenario, right? So you're squatting with the bar or you're squatting with three 15 or four Oh five or, you know, wherever your max effort is, that's a different scenario. And the adaptation you get from that is much higher. So I, I really do. I felt called to combo in the past for those reasons, because I'm willing to put myself through the grinder for that big payoff. But something our friend Aubrey had mentioned to me was, unlike 5-MeO DMT, we're from the Sonoran Desert Toad, where the frog is splayed out on glass and milked gently, and it shoots its 5-MeO wad onto the glass, and they let it dry and scrape it up, and you vape that.

That frog, the Sonoran desert toad jumps off the glass, goes back to eating bugs, and might even have sex. It's unaffected by it. Cambo's a little different in that there is, it's almost like you wouldn't want to eat an animal who died a slow and agonizing death. You'd want to eat an animal that died peacefully and with grace and didn't have all those fight or flight hormones and chemicals going through their body. I think that's the thing that's kept me away from Cambo is knowing Aubrey had a bad experience with it. And also knowing that it's not done in a way where this frog is happy about it

by any means. So to add to that, apparently, much like how you can have a factory farm chicken who's lived, honestly, unfortunately, like a Holocaust lifestyle, or you can have a free range chicken that's legitimately free range and it's probably lived a happy life, hopefully killed humanely. So I've learned combo actually has both. So you mentioned the horrendous side. A couple months ago when I was in Thailand, I had a chance to do combo. And the practitioner who we were working with, my wife set it up and why she said she'd use this lady

is the method that she gets the combo is very humane, much like the way you outlined how they get the DMT from the toads. It's humane. It's sprayed out. It's not hurting the toad. It's not putting it through. So apparently there's a way to get combo from toads. That way you don't get as much per unit of effort. That's why unfortunately not everybody does it. So there's essentially like free range organic combo. And I don't know your- Have you had your grass fed combo yet? Know your sources. I mean, you think it's hard to figure out where your beef came from. It can be a little bit of a chore, so probably more so with combo.

But we had to happen to luck out and find a great, very ethical practice. And this was out in Thailand? It was in Thailand. I want to go back. I'll have to. Yeah, and that same thing for ayahuasca. When you're talking about something as potentially serious as combo, it is very much, you go by the trusted word of mouth of people that have already been through

that ceremony previous to you, hopefully more than once. And you can say, you can kind of rest in that knowing, all right, they're still alive. They're doing good. They report back well about it. And so maybe I can jump in there. I think that's necessary to avoid the hell of paranoia because like say with combo, there is nothing pleasant about it at all. Like I hate throwing up and I was puking my guts out and you felt the poison as it initially goes through me, you feel this heat. And then I start pooping my brains out. And if I didn't know people in my life who have done this and they're like, yeah, it's fine. It's temporary. Like, I'd start to think, like, I'm dying.

Like, do I have the Ebola virus? Do I have malaria? Like, is this ever going to end? And then the paranoia makes the medicinal experience pretty hellacious. Yeah, because that builds. Anybody who's ever had too much of a cannabis edible, which is my least favorite plant medicine by far, you just get stuck in the realm of negativity. And that spiral gets bigger and bigger and bigger instead of actually being able to surrender and just go

with it like let go of the fact that all right this thing's going to run its course but i think having that light at the end of the tunnel of it will end i am guided you know i am i'm being taken care of i think that makes a big difference yeah it's in i mean almost like as a life principle with anything that's challenging in life be be it a plant ceremony, frog poison, toe poison ceremony, or going through a divorce, going through leaving a job, or getting fired, or trying something new scares the hell out of you. The Buddha's wisdom of this too shall pass. Like, man, that brings so much sanity.

It's like there's never been anything in my life that I've been through that hasn't passed. And yeah, and I think that just makes it safer. Makes it like, yeah, okay, I can apply myself a little bit more to this tough situation because I know it will pass. It's not going to go on forever. Yeah. Actually, at my bachelor party in Joshua Tree, we candy flipped with MDMA and LSD, and we were laying outside. And I had just reread A New Earth, and he talks about this too shall pass. And this, we could see, if you've ever been to Joshua Tree, you can see every star in the sky. You see the Milky Way. And that was our first night, but that was without medicine. So day two, we get into the medicine.

And we did this wonderful sound bath at this Integratron. It was just 20 singing bowls and three different people just working them. So we were vibrating high when we dropped in. But we noticed, as we looked up, we're laying on the ground. It's like 80 degrees outside, but you can't see a single star because the storm's here. And it's like, fuck. And I was thinking about the storms in my own life, things that I was processing with my wife and the uncertainty of work. And what is my purpose? Where am I going? What is this going to manifest into? And all that realization of, I don't need to fucking figure this out.

This too will pass. This storm is going to move right through. There will be calm. There will be peace. And as we shifted that, I'm not sure if we affected the weather ourselves through our own consciousness, but the storm would have breaks, and we'd see these big, big gaps in the clouds where you could see every star in one particular circle, one particular opening in the sky. And I think the appreciation for that was so much more than had we just stared at every star in the sky the entire night.

Because it would have been there after an hour or two. You're like, yeah, that's cool. It was awesome. Wow. But we were just laying on our backs, all bullshitting with each other. And then every time I'd have a little break, people would point me like, wow. Yeah. You know what trips me out about stars in the sky?

They're looking at them and none of them are there anymore. You're seeing the memory, the millions of light years it takes for the light to get to us. The star has long since been burned out. So we're looking at something that's not even there anymore. We're experiencing the memory of it. That just absolutely trips me out. Everything's moving, too, as the universe expands. I took my son to the houston museum

of science i think is that in houston kyle it's in houston and uh so neil degrasse tyson who has done he's done a bunch of these nature shows for the national museums and um you go in there and it's like a planetarium right and so we so we went and saw one on dark energy. And he was saying that because of the way the universe is expanding, if you went to any particular star in the universe, it would look like everything's moving away from you. It's moving out in all directions, which is kind of hard to imagine, right? Where's the center? It's just everything in all directions, which is kind of hard to imagine, right? Where's the center?

It's just everything's expanding outward. Bananas. That's the mind fuck I'll leave people with. Yeah. And in the, you know, the macrocosm, the universe is expanding in all directions, I think is very reflective of the microcosm, like little cellular itty-bitty part of the universe called us. Like, I think we have the same nature, the microcosm and the macrocosm. As above, so below.

For sure. So the fact that the universe is expanding, like it doesn't cover that up with a bunch of bullshit. Takes a while for astronomers to figure out, oh, cool, that's expanding. And I think that's our nature too. That's why when we listen to our calls, it always creates expansion in our lives. Not necessarily physically like the literal universe, but in non-physical, non-literal, but very symbolic ways, psychological ways.

And when we violate the nature's principle of expansion, and we don't surrender, we don't do anything new, we're not willing to do things that scare us because we're too scared to be scared. When we violate that nature's principle of expansion. We have hell to pay. I mean, that's when shit starts going wrong in our lives. That's when our soul might award us with depression to try to get our attention. Like, hey, you are not letting yourself expand. Something isn't going optimal for you here. So pain is a good motivator. It gets attention. So whether it's depression, back pain, or stuff starts falling apart, but you think of a container that's trying to contain

more energy than the container can actually contain, and you start getting leaks in the garden hose. So we feel those leaks. It's like, ah, what the hell's going on? It's like, whoa. Almost always we're violating nature's principle of expansion. And I think the art of surrender, why that word is such an eternally beautiful guide to us is because surrender says, I'll let the expansion happen. Control says, no, let's keep things the same. But you look up at the stars and have Neil deGrasse Tyson tell you, it's expanding. It's like, oh, that's what I'm supposed to do. And I think that's probably why the wise people throughout the ages, they didn't, I think the more in tune with nature they were, the less they needed books, the less they needed the latest e-course on like 37 ways to become more enlightened, because nature teaches everything.

And I think when we have human teachers in our lives, be it Eckhart Tolle, yourself, whoever it is, it's because we need translators. We need someone to translate the obvious wisdom and lessons from nature. We just have them translate that. I think that's all great teachers do. They're translating nature's lessons, nature's principles, so that we can digest it and assimilate it a little bit more. Yeah. I had a vision in the last mushroom ceremony I did with my dad, actually.

We did MDMA in mushrooms with penis envy mushrooms. It was really potent stuff. Did you say penis mushrooms? Penis envy. Penis. See, I got the McKenna shirt on right now, actually. It's developed by the McKenna brothers. It's at least twice as strong as any other mushroom strain.

And that's what it's called, penis and... They look like cocks. Before they're dried, they look like nice, thick... They got girth. There you go. And of course, because of their potency, all the other mushrooms are envious. Anyways, all that to say,

in the experience with my old man, where were we just before this? I'm thinking about dicks. Expanding universe, nature's lessons, Neil deGrasse Tyson. Yeah. Dad mushrooms, teachers just translate nature's wisdom. Teachers just translate nature's wisdom. JP's hypnotically handsome.

Yes. All right. All approved. I fucking lost where that story was going. There was some good downloads there. I have a question for you. You've done combo recently, and you said you were sick over New Year's. And we know from a lot of the tutelage of Paul Cech that sickness or dis-ease comes from stress.

Yeah. And stress has a fucking wide variety of names it goes by. Sure. But what are the things that stress you out now? Yeah, you know, being enough is something that motivates me and stresses me. It's the fucking blade with two edges to it. I mean, both sides. It cuts me and it helps me.

So trying to be enough. In fact, when I was in this office doing my podcast with Paul Selig, and he did a reading on me, I think my question to him was like, what's in my blind spot that I most need to know? And he did his reading and it came back to say, quit comparing yourself with other people, JP. You are on your own landscape. what you're doing, like the conscious comedy, like you're on your own landscape. Like you of all people don't need to compare yourself. It's only hurting you. Then he's like, and you pretend like you don't compare yourself, but you always do. I'm like,

fuck I do. So, uh, uh, we can edit this out, right? Oh, we're going to wrap this thing up, brother. Let me cut you off. It's been great having you. We'll have you back on again, I promise. It's been real. But comparing myself really stresses me out. And the comparison is truly like an incessant way of trying to convince myself I am enough. I am enough. I am enough. I am enough. So over New Year's,

I was doing a comedy tour in Hawaii. And before I went, I wrote a lot of new stand-up material. And it was just so great and creative. And the other edge of the blade is I'm comparing myself. Like, is this going to be enough? And then I start comparing myself to traditional standup comedians. I'm like, is this how they would do it? Is this what Dave Chappelle would do? Yeah. Which is so shitty of me to do. Because one, I'm comparing myself wrong. And two, I'm on my own landscape. Like I'm doing this conscious comedy thing. Am I a stand-up comedian?

No, I'm JP, I get on stage and I do my own thing. Paul was right, it really is my own landscape. I'm not trying to be within the art of stand-up comedy. Yet, the whole time I'm writing new comedy and then go to Hawaii, start performing, and one was super good, but still there was the stress of comparison and trying to be enough. And then with that, I'm drinking something else I do to make myself more stressed is I drink too much coffee. starts elevating my cortisol, suppressing my immune system, working too much in the name of just like too many hours.

So I think being hyperproductive, trying to prove I'm enough is another angle of how I stress myself. And then once in a while, I'll get into a rut where I'm not sleeping enough. And even if it's just like, hey, I'm getting six hours of sleep a night, man, it's like I have such a weak constitution. I really feel that. So that's a way that I can stress myself. But man, it's so weird when you ask me the question, because I listen to this, it's like,

well, literally everything that stresses me is by the hand of my own self. Yeah. And the comparison and I love working on that. It's such a great challenge. And sometimes I'm like doing pretty good. I'm like owning where I'm at. I'm doing my thing. And then other times, you know, the blip on the radar goes up. It's like, yeah, I'm doing a little comparison here. And that really is a stressor to my psychology and therefore physiology. Yeah, no doubt. What about you? And what do you do to you that stresses you out the most typically? Shit. You shit? No, that's not what does does it the thing that stresses me out the most

well there's a couple of things here this will be uh the first time i talk about one of them um one of the things that i talked about this when i was a guest on your show was transitioning from the need to look the part as a fighter. So training, you know, two or three times a day to be four and a half percent body fat and look like I could destroy anything that walks, right. And like, just to feel that kind of physical prowess, um, letting go of that and then reformatting training, because that's for the last eight years, that's how I trained. So it's like, well, this is how I hit on the airdyne. This is how I hit the heavy bag. This is how I lift weights, you know, like it's all, all or nothing. And then I guess, um, it's still a work in progress. So as I fine tune what my body actually needs, and that's why I have,

I have an aura ring and a fucking whoop watch on at the same time, give me all the metrics, give me all the data points. So it teaches me to listen to my body better. And the ultimate goal is to not rely on technology for those things, but to be able to feel where I'm at. Like, oh man, I'm a little run down. Yesterday's workout was harder than I thought. Maybe today's just active recovery. So finding that balance allows me to either remain healthy and not get sick and to beat a cold within 24 hours if I feel it coming on and I hit the oil of oregano and I meditate and get some parasympathetic energy going into my body, maybe some breath work, I can shift that pretty quickly. If I'm not paying attention

to how I feel because I'm distracted by work or distracted by relationship or distracted by anything else, then I'll neglect that calling from within. And when I do that, that becomes, that's where the sickness comes in, you know, for sure. All right. And the second piece of that, which is for sure the most stressful thing, one of the most stressful things I've ever done in my entire life is my wife and I have started open relationship. Whoa, come on now. Come on. This is fucking new territory. I'm going to need a minute here, Kyle. I got to process as I project myself. Man. So, and this is the first time you talked about it. Do tell brother, how, give us the flowers, the thorns. level, but still remain friends. And then my wife found a man. And what's funny is that,

you know, a big reason we did this was from reading, you know, books like Sex at Dawn and Esther Perel's book, Mating in Captivity. Knowing we had always talked about each other's previous partners, like it never offended us that she, you had actually had sex before we met. No, of course you did. But the illusion of time, that somehow pacifies it. That was in the past. Yep. Not in this unit of made-up time called right now. Yeah. Yeah. And so we were comfortable in talking about those things. And we realized like, thank you. Thank you. There's a prayer in the Fifth Sacred Thing.

It's a great book, which blows me the fuck away. And it's a blessing to all the creeks and all the riverbeds that contribute to our wonderful flowing river of love. All that have contributed from the past, the water that comes down from the mountains and the valleys, and all those that contribute to it right now. And I think that's the other thing, like all those that contribute to it right now. Meaning it's not just me that's contributing to Natasha's well of love. There's other guys, right? And so like being okay with that, I think has been a huge, much harder thing to grasp for me than when I got the original download in plant medicine ceremonies. And I've had a couple of trip reports that really just kind of said like, hey, this is the time to do it. And not necessarily, you know, as we always thought, like this will be something we do down the road, maybe when our kids are growing up in college. And the answer that I was getting from mushrooms was do it now so that you can grow, that you can learn the lessons, you can realize yourself, you can learn to love yourself and live without fear.

And in that, you'll be better parents. You'll give them more. And that really shifted it for us to want to start this sooner. And that ceremony was last February, so a year ago. And we just put it into practice recently. And it's been a roller fucking coaster, just an absolute mind fuck, because I understand all these things conceptually. I understand very clearly.

The goal is to see the divine in all things, right? Yeah. So any lover she has, that's God, right? That's okay. That's a part of the all, right? And I can appreciate that. Another apple on the apple tree. Yeah.

And I love my wife. I want her to experience all the apple tree. Yeah. And I love my wife. I want her to experience all the pleasures in the world. And there's certain things I can't do because I'm just my own physical self. There's a lot I can do, but that spice of variety that adds contrast to the thing you love brings me back full circle and her to us. It certainly has been challenging beyond belief, harder than anything I've ever done. But in that experience, I think we've come to a place now where I've never been closer than I am with my wife right now. Wow. And on every level, on the physical, on how I feel her love, and then also at the same time,

knowing that anything she does with someone else, it doesn't subtract from me. It doesn't subtract from us. It only adds to us. It adds value to her life. It adds value. And this question will come up. What about the kids? Uncles and aunties add value to my son's life.

And we have to be selective. It's not a free-for-all because there's an energetic exchange And we have to be selective. It's not a free for all because there's an energetic exchange when you have sex with somebody, but also who are you going to bring around your kids? So you want people that come into that situation to form this modern era of tribe that really can become a part of the family and be an auntie or an uncle and lift some of the weight of how we try to raise kids right now as nuclear families, which is completely against the grain of what we've done throughout human history. Yeah. I think the part of a lover has sex with someone else, whether it's present or sometimes

past when you get insecure about that, the idea of like, oh, that subtracts, that subtracts from me and what you give me. I think a lot of that comes from the ego's perspective that says the universe revolves around me, kind of like the magical mind of the child where somehow we operate, the immature child mind, not childlike playfulness, but the fear-based childish mind says the world revolves around me. Therefore, what you do with someone else, that's about me. And because you're doing that thing with him without me, then that subtracts from me. And there's only so much love you have to give me, me, me, if I'm not getting all of it.

So it's like, yeah, we make things all about us. And unwinding that, I think it's a journey we're all on and how we unwind it is different. And I'd imagine amongst the other facets of your heart, soul, mind that are touched by an open relationship, I'd imagine that's got to be stimulated. And actually, on that note, I'd be curious, and Kyle is, I get, 1980s Oprah.

Oh, I like the serious look in your eyes right now. What gives you the right? I think Oprah used to have an attitude. Now we look at her like a spiritual being, but she's like, you were a shameless, shitty talk show host. It was Maury Povich back in the day, for sure. Fuck you, are you fucking me? Anyway.

Like on, I guess, shadow side first, I would be really curious, like if you think of maybe even the single hardest, like most challenging feeling you've had that's come up in the open phase of your relationship with Natasha. Like maybe it was the first time she's literally out with the other guy. But just what the feeling was and how that thorn, if you will, was for you. Yeah. I think there's a couple of things because it's, you know, I think the tale of the tape has been for men and women that women fear, if there's an affair, women fear that the man will fall in love and men fear the women just having sex.

Yeah. I think that the men fear the physical and the women fear like the emotional connection. Yeah. I got them both, which is fucking whoppers coming out of your gender fluid. That's what you are. Yeah, exactly. I like this. I like this new terminology. So I, I felt, um, I realized as one of the vote of confidences, and I don't want to get too much into details here. I like the way Chris Ryan goes about his approach where he talks in generalities and doesn't divulge too much of his own personal life. And I want to keep true to that. That said, I had to buy condoms for them. I chose to buy condoms for them as a, I'm yes, let's do this. Yes. Right. Like I can tell you feel that right here. I can tell you that I want this to happen

and that it's okay, but let me show you that it's okay. Right. And so I realized as I was buying them, I need to buy two sizes of condoms. I need to buy the regulars and the magnums because I don't know. Right. And that fucking seed of doubt was like, God, oh no, please. Hope not. Hope not. Hope not. And, and then realizing that that doesn't matter either. That doesn't subtract from me. And penis size is not everything when it comes to that. When it comes to sex, the sexual experience, you know, and of course, it sounds like I've got a three-inch pecker saying that. I use three and a half. I see you in the line of room. Thank you. I think you're giving a vote of confidence there. I think,

you know, a lot of the physical stuff physical stuff you know you wonder which positions you wonder or i've wondered um just a number of things and then like because tosh is so good in bed you're like damn she's gonna bring that medicine to somebody else and they're gonna be fucking wowed and she's had the same thoughts towards me, you know, like, and, and that, and it's like, okay, well we can release that and know like, that's, if we're going to share, share the full experience, don't share a half-assed experience where it's like, well, you guys are really allowed to have sex missionary. Uh, everything else is for us and us alone. Right. Or I'm the only one who gets anal. Nobody else will get that. You know, like you give the full fucking experience right and i think in that

as we've gone through it is this consistent realization of nothing has been taken from me all has been gained and the value that we have added to our lives uh particularly from her boyfriend is fucking immense like it's palpable i can I can feel it. My son says, I love you, uncle. I mean, and he fucking means it, you know, he's not that warm with everybody, but he's warm with certain people and he absolutely loves him. So I think there's many awesome pieces that go with that. And then of course the love issue, like, all right, if I let this guy in, are they going to, is she going to have feelings for him? Is he going to have feelings for her and all that? And where does that go down the road? And I think

realizing that too, doesn't take away from me because love is infinite and you don't love your second child less than you love your first. And no one can compare. And I know this from being on the other side of that. When I had a girlfriend and she didn't, nothing can compare to what we've done in the last seven years. Like how our relationship's been in living together for seven years, having our first ever ayahuasca sessions together. And we've done quite a few. Oh, I shouldn't say quite a few. We've done a good amount. She's had about a few. Oh, I shouldn't say quite a few. We've done, done a good amount. She's had about a dozen. I've had 22 ish and many other plant medicine ceremonies and many other practices

and reading books together and things like that, I think has really just rounded out. And we have fucking bear who's amazing, right? Like what we've created, no one can come in and touch that. So I think resting in that knowledge and then also resting in the knowledge that even if she did leave for another guy, that would be the work of the day. That would take a lot of processing, but that's okay too. And I think coming from that place of true surrender to everything has allowed me to have much more peace and embody the messages I was getting from plant medicines to do this, but then starting had forgotten all about. Yeah. That's amazing. And your biggest joy, the biggest flowery rose so far from the open relationship experience.

What has that been? And maybe you just described it. I loved everything you said and like the fucking thorn part of like, here's fucking two boxes of condoms. Jesus Christ, which one are you going to use? Go back and count the condoms. like all right there's like nine in this box and magnums are untouched thank fucking god but uh but yeah what would you say is the most joyful experience because that's a that's a huge endeavor you guys it's two parts uh one the first side effect i noticed was by me having sex with someone else it highlighted highlighted Natasha. And it turned out that we lucked out in having great sexual partners. So I was having amazing sex with this new person and it highlighted my wife in a way because there is a level of mastery when you've been with somebody physically for that long. You know every button to push, you know the flow, you know how to get them there. You

know how to put them right up to the edge and take them over the top fairly easily and consistently. And I think having that with her, but then with this contrast, this thing to compare it to where it's not like I'm saying which one is better or worse, but they're different. They're just different. Right. And it's, I think Mark Bell had joked about this, but you know, like, why would you eat one thing for the rest of your life? And then he's like, well, we did choose to be with one woman for the rest of our life. You know, you're eating the same thing there. So like, you love pizza, but that's the only food you eat every single day. It'd be nice to have a fucking bacon cheeseburger sometimes. Yeah. Right? And that makes pizza taste better again.

And so it really has made the physical with my wife just on a different level. Like, this is by far the best sex we've ever had in our relationship. And a deeper connection. And truly, that's just on the physical side. On the emotional side, when you go through something together, like ayahuasca or a death in the family or anything that really draws you to be the best version of yourself, which this clearly does, it brings you together and it's brought us together. Every night we read a chapter from a book out loud with each other, you know, we'll just pass

it back and forth. So we're doing that with Mastery of Love right now. We're going to start the next one with Conscious Loving. And we'll pause to talk about it. So instead of just banging on a quickie and watching something on Netflix, we have very long, awesome, amazing sex. And then we will sit and read and lay with each other and just chat about it. And we'll pause to really discuss like, what does it mean to have the magical kitchen in your heart? What is that? What if that does exist? What if there is this well of love in the center

of every heart? And if we tap into that, that's the infinite love that we're talking about. Then I don't need my love from anywhere else because I produce it all from within. Man, that's beautiful. And something I, I'm still 1980s Oprah, just for the role playing. I like this. Something that really stands out that you said is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you decided to get into the open relationship or start that for the growth. That's what the plant medicine, is that right? Yeah, 100% for the growth. And I think that expectation is very on point. Because I've known a lot of people in the past go through open relationships, and most of them have ended in destruction.

And I think it's because their expectations were all wrong. Maybe they kind of get a little intellectual, read a book, hear people talk, like, cool, this should just be joyful. Be a breeze. We've had sex with other people before. No big deal. Let's do the math. I have more sex. You do. Cool. Okay, go wrong. But then the inevitable shit storm of having the unresolved residues in our psyche chelated to the surface, that's called growth. But when you don't expect that, then it's like why you got into this is very different than the reality of it. That's similar to, not to cut you off, but that's similar to somebody who does a plant medicine

thinking I just want to get high as opposed to knowing the full gamut of what's possible here and using it with intention and reverence. Yeah, 100%. And that's something I've heard Aubrey talk about with open relationships. Very rarely do I hear him talk in a glorious way about open relationships.

So it's like this self-mutilation for the purpose of growth. I mean, just like you go to the gym if you're doing a hard workout, there's nothing pleasant about that. The unpleasantness with which you're willing to encounter is what creates the growth. And I think there's, with our psychology, there's two things we can think of. Am I inflicting pain or am I provoking pain that's already there? And it could be both. But I think when it comes to growth, a lot of times, the intention is, let me do something that will provoke pain that's already there so I can deal with it, transmute the pain so the energy becomes something constructive rather than destructive. And the adversity that

I once held as unresolved pain now becomes a source of strength for me. And it sounds like that's what your intention is with an open relationship where you look at it and it's like, I expect discomfort and I'll take that head on. Like I expect it. Yeah. We, you know, it's funny you say that because like I fully expected it. I didn't know to the degree or the consistency that it would come up. I mean, like overwhelming amount of work to be done. But because the pressure of that, the pressure of that agreement and acting upon it just presses into all the cracks that are in the relationship. Anything that's been out of alignment specifically,

I haven't taken my wife on enough dates lately because we don't have a ton of, we have one babysitter. We don't have any family here and i mean lately as in the last 18 months since coming to austin so the first time i go to lunch with my girlfriend that's a huge fucking issue and i'm like it's just lunch she's like it's a date you know and like that really was something that we it was beautiful because it it she's told me she wants to go on dates, but there's always an excuse for that. Like there's always a, well, we got this work thing coming up and you know, it's a hundred

dollars to get the babysitter and she's not available and fucking fill in the blank. Yeah. The truth is like, there are requirements to make any relationship work monogamously or not. And if you're not meeting those requirements, you're failing. But I think talking about it wasn't enough. It was to experience the pain of that pressure and to know like, okay, this is a very important thing that we can fix. And it's an easy remedy. And if we do that, we can create peace. We can create stability. We can actually find our way to navigate through the storm and start to

feel like even though there's more work to be done, it gets easier. And that's been like this really beautiful overarching theme that I've realized over the last three months is that it does get easier. And as it does so, I really feel like every part of our life is enhanced. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. How do you, for people who don't have the genuine call to experiment with an open relationship, like it sounds like yours was a genuine call, not just something like, Hey, this would be cool. Let's try it. Like plants tell you like, Oh, try this. But so for people who don't have that inner calm to get the comparable level of growth, both in life and through their relationship, how do you think they can do that? Well, that's a good question.

I mean, many paths lead up the mountain and we're not all going to the same place, right? So there's different mountains, but, um, I think practices like meditation, yoga, breath work, Tai Chi that allow us to feel our inner space and work through that are critical just so I become the best version of myself. And as Domingo Ru talks about in Four Agreements, as well as Mastery of Love, I'm only responsible for my half of the relationship. I'm responsible for my happiness. I'm responsible for my joy and love that I bring into the relationship. I'm not responsible for your love. I'm not responsible for your happiness. That puts it on us. It puts it on us that the trigger is mine. It's not theirs to work through. It's mine to work through. And then in that circumstance, if I can grow and be the best

version of myself, that's really my contribution to the whole thing. But all that said, to really narrowly answer your question, I think the things that are hardest, similar to the 500-pound back squat versus squatting with the bar, have the most reward and the fastest learning curve. So I meditate daily. I think it's an amazing practice. It's one of the ways I integrate and embody the lessons from the plant medicines. But the plant medicines are what give me that crash course, like a seminar, an eight-hour session with some of the best teachers in the consciousness field that come in and just drop download after download. And I think having those as pieces, there's no way I ever could have done open relationship without it. But oddly enough, or ironically, that was the thing that told me to do open relationship because we had read the books and we had talked about it for probably the last five years. But it wasn't until that mushroom ceremony where it was like, this is something you do now, not later, where it was really. And was that the penis envy mushroom ceremony?

That was not the penis envy. Okay, that would be a little suspicious if it was. Because it was like, that's getting a little too literal here, you fucking mushroom gods. Yeah, so you like your name, huh? That's why you have to buy the Magnum condoms. Am I wrong?

Probably. Man, that's interesting. I find one of the, and you touched on this, one of the conscious factors that I have in my relationship with Amber that I do my best to have as a growth catalyst is when I am triggered, what's the say about me? Let me contain my emotions, not misdirect them out onto her where I blame her and it's like I leak out the energy that is inside of me that's asking me to resolve it, feel it, process it. And man, that's a fucking handful unto itself. And I can't even always be in that mindset, but some of the time is, man, very impactful.

And I find some... One of the things that triggers me the most in my relationship is when Amber doesn't own, like when she's triggered, then I start to get triggered. Like she's not owning, not like her work in this. And then I'm like, oh, and I'm not either right now. Because I'm focusing on- The blame, the separation. Yeah, I'm focusing on how she's not getting her lesson because she's upset and triggered. And I get upset at her for being upset and triggered, but not seeing it. I'm like, oh,

okay, my trigger here is I'm triggered that she's not seeing whatever. Maybe she is, but it doesn't seem like, let me even contain that. Man, relationships, I think no matter how we slice it open, closed, or just when we bring some level of consciousness to a relationship, that becomes like the universe. It's wanting to expand. Where relationships start to suffocate us is when they don't expand. Like one of the fabrics of expansion, it seems like you and Tash have put in

is like, let's try open relationships. That'll help us expand. So I think we've got to expand. Otherwise, our relationships just fucking kill us. And it's so weird how the very thing that can bring us new life, like really renewed life and help us deliver realizations of who I am today, not who I was. That can be our relationship. And the relationship, depending on how we approach it, can be the very thing that suffocates us. But it's always on us. How am I relating to myself within my relationship?

What are some of the pride? We're crushing it here. We're fucking hitting the two hour mark. What are some of the things that you do to bring Amber and yourself closer together? What are some of your practices that you do as couples from dates to adventures to what do you guys do to really connect to one another? Yeah. One is starting simple. You mentioned dates and like Amber and I don't have kids yet. It's shocking how tough it is for us sometimes to stay committed to the simple date night thing. Cause it's either one of us can get a little too workaholic and think, well, you know, it'll just date night. It's more convenient not to do it. That's us without even having kids yet. But the date nights, being committed to that is so

important, which is a pattern interrupt, especially with her and I, because when we're not traveling, we both work from home. So things can get a little bit routine being in the house. So we got to break the pattern. That's important. And I think really paying attention to our sex life. And I know one of the things I need to concentrate on, and I probably need to more, is being sexual with Amber when we're not having sex. That both turns her on, turns me on. And I can get a little too instant gratification of like, okay, I'll be sexual because I want to have sex right now. But really realizing there's a long game. There's an art form of sexual chemistry and let's let that play out throughout

the day. And right now Amber's out of town in Costa Rica and even sending a text message like, hey, I had a dream about you last night, babe. And even just taking a moment to text her that, that's planting seeds that we get to harvest in a while. So that's important. And then I think where the toughest work, at least for me, is when I have emotions that come up is first off, own it. Ask, what does this say about me? Maybe I'm mad at her, but it's really like, this is my medicine. What does this say about me and maybe even my unresolved past. And then the other side of that is when Amber's upset, realizing this isn't about me. The universe isn't revolving around me. And sure, she's human. Times she'll blame me. And I don't want to scapegoat my part of that. Of course, I have a role in any interaction. But at the same time, when she's triggered and projecting her past onto me, it is so tempting and so self-destructive for me to take ownership of that. And that is very self-destructive, and I think it's destructive for the relationship. So catching myself when I do

that and doing my best to minimize it and let Amber own her feelings without making myself responsible for them, that's big time work for me. And I think it's big time fertilizer for the relationship the better I can get with that. Yeah, don't take it personally. Man, it's so easy to say, isn't it? But she's looking at me when she's yelling. I have to take it personally.

Fuck. Fuck. I'm a quiet little church mouse. My fucking father's here. You know, like, yeah. Like all that shit just comes up.

You're like, yeah, the auto pattern comes back. So that's what it is. Yeah. Become three years old all over again. Yeah. It's beautiful to be able to bring that kind of awareness into our own lives and not to convince

anybody to do the things that we're doing, not to say everyone should do ayahuasca or people should do open relationship or any of these things. It's just the illustration of some level of awareness and how we've navigated through our own shit. And that's another reason why I love Paul Cech and Aubrey, and they've been great teachers of ours, is because of the fact that they don't just paint the light of the lessons they've learned through the good. They'll tell you how they fucked up. They'll tell you where they went wrong. And in that, they become more human. And as they become more human and more relatable, there's buy-in for that. Because it's like, I fucking get this guy. I want to hear more. So that's what I feel about you, brother. You're incredibly

genuine, incredibly honest. And I do love you with all my heart. And it's been an absolute pleasure to fucking have you on the show for almost two hours. Right on, Kyle. Man, yeah, you're a brother. Connecting with you, it's always just a dream. You're a friend since Amber and I moved to Austin. I mean, you and Natasha, genuine friends. So I love hanging out with you, brother. And thank you for having me on the show. Yeah. And JP Sears, we'll link to all of his Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, which are must follows,

the YouTube page, all that stuff in the show notes. Yay. Thank you, brother. Whoa. Yeah. Some bombs dropped on that one. Um, follow our dude JP. If you don't already, he's fucking hilarious. Listen to his podcast. Uh, listen to him on other podcasts, follow Paul check, listen to living in 4d. I know that that's, you know, he's once maybe wants to come out of the shadow of check, but I do like that relationship there. And let us know what you think. I'm sure we'll get a lot of questions about

some of the things that I talked about or some of the things JP talked about. Write us online. JP might big time you, but I will be sure to get back to you and get you some answers. Thanks for listening. And as always, 10% off product, supplements, and foods at onnit.com slash podcast.