Kyle Kingsbury Podcast - #90 Joovv

Episode Date: June 3, 2019

Scott & Wes from Joovv stopped by Onnit to talk about how Joovv got started, the importance of sunlight, the limited amount of light we are exposed to in modern life, how blue light affects our circadian rhythm, and the differences in infrared light and the benefits of infrared light therapy. We discuss Mitochondrial disease, the macronutrient power of light, and the ways light affects the microbiome.   Connect with Joovv: Website | https://joovv.com/ Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/joovvsocial/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/joovvsocial/     Kyle Kingsbury special | http://joovv.com/kyle     Farmers Juice Promo: Get $10 off your first box order by visiting  thefarmersjuice.com/king    Dry Farm Wines Promo: Get a penny bottle of wine on your order by visiting  dryfarmwines.com/kyle     Get 10% off all foods and supplements at Onnit by going to https://www.onnit.com/kyle/   Connect with Kyle Kingsbury on: Twitter | https://bit.ly/2DrhtKn Instagram | https://bit.ly/2DxeDrk     Subscribe to the Kyle Kingsbury Podcast Itunes | https://apple.co/2P0GEJu Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2DzUSyp Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2ybfVTY IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/2Ib3HCg Google Play Music | https://bit.ly/2HPdhKY  

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What the fuck is that? Well, there are some pretty cool scientific studies coming out based on what red light does to us and infrared light. I'm sure you've heard Dr. Rhonda Patrick talking about infrared saunas and different forms of infrared light, how important it is to get the full spectrum of light from the sun. But truly being indoors all day long and surrounded by blue light, we're missing out on some of those key components of light therapy. We take a deep dive into light therapy with the homies from Juve. Thank you guys for tuning in and make sure you keep listening after the show ends because we'll have a little discount for y'all. All right, we're clapped in.

We got the boys from Juve. Introduce yourselves, please, for the audience. I'm Scott, one of the co-founders of Juve. Pleasure to be here, Kyle. I'm Scott, one of the co-founders of Juve. Pleasure to be here, Kyle. I'm Wes. I'm a business director. We need to start over. We gotta leave it.

We gotta leave it. We gotta leave it. Give us some nicotine. Give us some nicotine. You know what? We'll try it one more time. I am Wes. I'm the director of business development for Juve.

There we go, Wes. People are now going to see the arc of you getting over the nerve, overcoming it, and being able to articulate exactly what you mean and all that's working inside your brain. So this is great. You want to show them the whole thing.

That's right. You know, all these guys that show up in the spiritual scene that have got it all figured out and they just act like they were born that way. Fuck those guys. You got to show the failures in the spiritual scene that got it all figured out and they just act like they were born that way. Fuck those guys. You got to show the failures

and the humanness of your experience to get to the place of where you're at. Totally, man. I'm jacked up right now that I just got over that little fear right there and I'm ready to roll. Good, because we're not editing. I love it.

Well, I've been meaning to get you guys on for a while. And actually since, it's funny because,rey started, obviously, you guys have worked with Aubrey before and Ben Greenfield and a lot of people that I'm familiar with that I hold in high respect in the space of biohacking or performance and longevity, any of those things where a lot of people are like, biohacking, that's such a lame-o term. But truthfully, how we can have one foot, as Ben puts it, in our ancestral living and one foot in the miracles of modern science,

and you guys fall into that miracle of modern science. So I want to take a deep dive into Ju, but I also want to get your backgrounds. Like, where did you guys start off, and what got you into light therapy? I mean, I'll kick that one off. I've spent most of my professional career in traditional med tech, so the medical device space with companies like Cavidian, Medtronic, Boston

Scientific, and to be a little bit more specific, the cardiovascular arena. So my wheelhouse was peripheral stents and thrombectomy catheters. Far, far different from the devices, the red light therapy devices. But our origin story dates back to actually my wife and then my sister-in-law, who actually picked up a red light therapy package. And for those listening, I'm using air quotes here. Red light therapy package at a spa in Minneapolis. We were in Minneapolis at the time. Saw really good results, but didn't want to have to go to this commercial facility that often. And so they were looking for products that they could use at home and there just wasn't

anything that existed. This concept of high quality red light therapy that ideally would treat your full body. And so we didn't envision starting a company at the time, but there was really no other product. So that's back in early 2015. But that's a little bit, We can certainly go deeper than that, but that's a little background on myself and Juve. Yeah. So I'm Scott's brother-in-law and my two sisters and other brother-in-law, the ones that started as Scott just mentioned. And when they first started it, I remember they sent me more of a prototype type product. And I swear

to God, I had it for like six to eight months before I tried it. Because I was like, this is bullshit. This is not real. I'm not using this. And then they told me I could, well, flip it on. And they're like, it's safe to look at. And I was like, this can't be safe to look at. I'm not, it's so damn bright.

I'm not looking at it. So when I first tried it, I was like, this is unbelievable. I've never felt anything like this. And I wanted to be a part of it. So I briefly came on after they had kind of got more of the bones in place. And I knew this was something that we could spread across the world. Very cool. Yeah. So let's take a deep, I mean, let's really look at what this is doing because I think for most people, if you're in this space, you've heard of some of the studies that Dr. Rhonda Patrick beats the drum over,

you know, and a lot of that has to do with sauna therapy and heat shock proteins, but also in the infrared space, how it helps with cellular function, detoxing the body, and a lot of this also accelerated recovery. So I want you guys to dive in a bit of the science because you've been looking at this for a while now. So what is exactly happening when we turn on this high powered red light and infrared combo? Yeah. And I'll kind of take it back to that origin story. So I came from just like Wes, I was very skeptical of the therapy at first. I mean,

I was used to dealing with what I perceived as legitimate medical products, right? Things that save lives. And so I thought this is complete woo-woo, this concept of red light and its ability to actually induce a wide variety of benefits. So I went straight to PubMed. I was like, what's this all about? Is there any clinical data to support any of this? Or is this just a bunch of people talking about new age stuff? And after spending a few hours, I was blown away by the sheer amount of science that supports

this therapy. In the world of academia, it's referred to as photobiomodulation. It's an entire subspecialty of medicine, actually. There's conferences across the world where docs get PhDs, largely get on stage and speak about the latest and greatest in the world of photobiomodulation. It's just mainstream consumers haven't heard of it because it's not covered by insurance, right? So I was quickly blown away by the science that at its core, these wavelengths of light,

I'm sure we'll get into kind of more of the nuts and bolts of this stuff. But these wavelengths of light actually help your cells and your body to become more efficient at producing energy. And because of that core mechanism of action, there's some other ancillary things that are going on for sure, which we'll touch on. But because of that core mechanism of action, you get a laundry list of benefits that quite honestly sound like a late night QVC commercial. So everything from muscle recovery to weight loss, to hair regrowth, to better skin, to enhanced cognitive function, reduced symptoms related to TBI. I mean, literally the list goes on and on. And if you buy one now, you'll get half off the second one on late night. I mean,

that's kind of what it sounds like, but it's also the cool, the cool thing about operating in this space, all supported by legitimate peer reviewed, you know, published literature, which is like, it's just fun to get behind something like that.

Well, I've been using the portable device on my testicles because Ben Greenfield told me that would help boost testosterone. But now I guess I should be using it on the top of my head to regrow the hair that I lost since becoming, but now I guess I should be using it on the top of my head to regrow the hair that I lost since becoming a dad. I had a little bit of baldness going on, but once

my wife gave birth with the lack of sleep, it all went bye-bye. Isn't that funny when the sleep is lacking and you almost feel like your hair is just slowly falling out? You have an acute stressor like that that becomes chronic chronic. For sure, there's going to be some issues. So, I mean, you touched on a few things there. What's happening with the cell? Obviously,

you know, mitochondria are such a big focus in the space of health and wellness because we're starting to see like everything from tripping over the truth with travis christopherson where we have the metabolic theory of cancer and how that's you know we were talking about dominic d'agostino before this that's why my mind's there but um mitochondrial dysfunction leading to disease so anything we can then you know it's funny this is in you know a lot of western medicine science because western medicine is about treating the illness. It's not about preventative, right? And here's something that we can do that's incredibly preventative, and it works from longevity to performance to everything in between. Yeah, without a doubt. And I think there's more that goes into that as well as you look at

how really us as humans have shifted in this modern lifestyle of now 93% of Americans are spending their lifetime indoors. That's 87% in an office building, 6% in the car, leaving 7% of their life is being exposed to natural sunlight. And one more counter to there is what are they doing inside? What light are they exposed to inside? It's artificial blue light, right? Everybody's addicted to their phone. They're on their TV, their computers. So we're really getting an imbalance of light as well because blue light, which is coming off those screens, is never present in natural sunlight

without the accompaniment of red light. So there's really a lack of light in our daily life in general and now i mean what what have you learned ever since you're a kid what do they tell you when you go outside put sunscreen on right block block the sun it's harmful for you and we really have a thick ass sunglasses yeah yeah exactly and then you you see these these this feedback we get and and actual blood work back from guys who are they follow a ketogenic diet. They do ice baths. They do high intensity training.

And then when they use our product and after like 60 days, I've seen blood work back like doubled in testosterone. And so what's the missing component there? And I think it goes into what I'm just mentioning there is there's a lack of light. And once you just get some healthy light into your lifestyle,

it does profound things on the body. And if you're new to this, kind of a lack of light. And once you just get some healthy light into your lifestyle, it does profound things on the body. And if you're new to this kind of this topic of light, an analogy I like to use is everyone listening to this show is familiar with macronutrients, right? I mean, that's kind of like entry into the game. If you're going to tune into the Kyle Kingsbury show, you got to understand like proteins, carbs, fats, and consuming those at different times of the day matters, right?

The same general concept applies to light. If you're not getting enough healthy light, that can be a negative ramification. And then like, as Wes mentioned, if you're exposed to different wavelengths of light at different times of the day, blue light, especially in the evening, that's very disruptive to your circadian rhythm and can really make a negative impact on your sleep. So light, the overarching narrative to this part of the conversation, light's really important to overall health and it's often underappreciated.

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. I mean, it's just a weird thing because everybody has to fucking pay the bills. That's just what it is. But you can still get out on your lunch break. You can still do different things. And even that, it's almost like this idea, again, thinking about to that model of ancestral movement

and living with the miracle of modern science. If we go back to the ancestral, we didn't sit in on our ass for 23 hours indoors and then bust our ass for an hour in the gym each day and call that like, no, I work out every day. It's not how we're meant to be. We're meant to have a lot of very low level activity and walking and carrying stuff back and forth and building things.

And then maybe we pick up something heavy here or there or go for a hard run chasing down an animal. But that's intermittently, right? There's no doubt. I can attest to that. Before I came on to Juve when I was younger, I did construction, blue collar work for 10 years. And I've never faced more like health challenges working inside on a computer. It's unbelievable how much extra work I have to do to loosen up the body, releasing the mild fascia. It's unbelievable when I naturally

got that working out outside and in sunlight. So there was a few different things I noticed switching into a inside lifestyle of, man, I'm not getting sunlight. I'm not getting, I'm not moving. Like this is, this is terrible. And you see what's happening to, to folks who, you know, do that for 30 to 40 years. I mean, no wonder we have significant health challenges in our, in our lives. Yeah, no doubt. One of the things that I, that I years. I mean, no wonder we have significant health challenges in our lives. Yeah, no doubt. One of the things that I liked when I was looking into infrared research was the ability to cure seasonal affective disorder. So for people who live in the Pacific Northwest, or if you're in the Nordic European countries and you get very little sunlight throughout the year,

you have a lot of cloud coverage, you can really get this form of depression where you're just fucking sunk because you missed the light of the sun. And a lot of that can be cured through infrared and red light. Have you guys looked at some of that stuff with regards to Juve? Yeah, there's no doubt.

In fact, at a high level, it's anecdotal feedback that we get a lot from customers. Now, granted, it's very qualitative in nature, but a common feedback loop is, it makes me feel good. I'm drawn to it every morning, or I'm drawn to it every evening. But when you look at the actual clinical science, there's a fair amount of evidence that suggests red and near-infrared light do promote less depression, especially within a population of people suffering from traumatic brain injury.

That's where most of the clinical data resides right now because you see a fair amount of depression with any sort of brain-related issue, whether it's a mild concussion or something more significant. But there's a fair amount of data to support it. And what's interesting about this is I had an email conversation going on with Dr. Michael Hamlin, who's one of the world's

leading researchers in the field of photo medicine and a journalist from a main publication. And the journalist was asking that same question. Well, is this the same thing as the happy lights,

the bright white happy lights that you see on Amazon? And to a certain extent, it's the same. You're trying to use light to induce a physiological change. But Dr. Hamlin's comment back to the journalist was like, it's sort of like that, but red and near-infrared light

actually give you more bang for your buck because they'll help with depression-related symptoms, but you get so many more benefits beyond that by using healthy wavelengths of light versus just bright white light. And I think that's 100% true. You get a lot of ancillary benefits. And it's something we see with thousands of customers is someone would buy one of our bigger devices for muscle recovery.

Or maybe they heard Ben or Aubrey talking about testosterone production with red light. And then they'll start using it and they're like, man, I feel better. And then I'm getting comments about people thinking I'm doing Botox and like, no, I'm a dude. I'm not doing Botox, but their skin looks better. So you get a lot of those ancillary benefits by simply exposing yourself to these healthy wavelengths of light on a consistent basis. Yeah. Talk a bit about the difference between red and infrared. I mean, they're fairly close on the spectrum from my understanding, but what are some of the main similarities and differences and why do you include both of them in the product?

Yeah, there's, and Wes, feel free to chime in if you want to touch on this, but there's, when you look at the total light spectrum, it's very, very broad. And most wavelengths of light are measured in, using a metric referred to as nanometers or NM is the short version of that. But there's actually a very narrow window that researchers refer to as the optical or therapeutic window. It's between about 600 and 900 nanometers in that range. And that's red and invisible near-infrared. So unlike a sauna, an infrared sauna that delivers mostly

mid and far infrared to heat up your body, near-infrared wavelengths, they don't generate much heat, but they have a unique ability to impact the mitochondria in our cells. Same thing with red light. The biggest difference between the two, red and near-infrared, is really just depth of penetration. So most of the energy in red light is absorbed in the dermis and epidermis of your skin. And it's largely good, I mean, from a broad perspective, good for superficial tissue treatment, whereas near-infrared light can penetrate deeper, actually can penetrate through bone even, and is good for deep tissue tissue treatment so everything from enhancing brain function to reducing joint pain and inflammation to increasing or speeding up muscle recovery yeah yeah and the

near infertile actually penetrate past your skull into the brain and there's some incredible research for showing the offset of dementia alzheimer's, treating traumatic brain injuries, cognitive enhancement. I mean, it's just incredible when you see light from head to toe. And that's really why when Scott mentioned earlier, we opt for full body because when you look at these studies and you break them down, hey, when I'm shining light on these specific areas on a daily basis, everything's getting better. So why wouldn't you treat your entire body? Yeah, that makes sense to me. I wonder in the science on the brain specifically, if they know the mechanism of action, if it's strictly influenced on the mitochondria,

creating more cellular energy for the brain to use, or if it's a combination of that and maybe a bit more clearing of amyloid beta plaque, tau proteins, things like that, that actually build up with Alzheimer's dementia or TBI, which I for sure have a laundry list of TBIs. I certainly can speak to that anecdotally. I've been using it for about a week or two, and it feels like I'm turned on. I use it in the morning, but it just feels like something turns on in me. And I was letting you guys know before, when I have it to my back, it's very easy to do. And when I turn face forward, and this may be due to my use of nicotine in the morning, it almost feels like a detox is going on

as it hits my face. And sometimes I got to combine breath work with it, you know, Wim Hof style deep breathing. And as I'm able to get to that point, like the whole rest of the day is truly better. Like I feel like everything clicks. My brain's turned on. This is oftentimes prior to having caffeine.

So it's kind of like, you know, in Aubrey's book, On the Day on Your Life, before you touch caffeine, you have a tall glass of room temperature salt water. You get some morning light and you do a little morning exercise, right? So that's why I place that into my morning routine for the morning light because Austin's beautiful, but it rains here year round. So we have a lot of sun in this town, but we also have all four seasons of rain. And like today where it's raining outside, I'm not going to get a big dose of sunlight. So having that guaranteed light exposure each morning, I think is making a big difference. Yeah. And I mean, that's interesting. You say that literally almost word for word. We just started working with Anthony Pettis and he's

been, he's similar, right? Background fighting. I'm taking a lot of abuse, head trauma. And that's what he put back in. And he said, I quote, he's like, this thing is fucking legit. He's never, and he thought it was kind of woo woo, you know, cause his agent had contact us, right? We talked and, and, and, but no similar feedback, which is, and that's what we get from a lot of the professional athletes we work with. And a lot of times they're, they're reporting back, dude, I'm sleeping a ton better than I, than I have been. And, and I, I equate that to, it's getting them into a more of a parasympathetic state almost, almost instantly because of how much they're in fight or flight mode all the time. And especially with how much travel athletes do, it really can help

provide a calming effect at night as well as in the morning. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no. I was just going to, I can save my question. I was going to circle back around to like some of those mechanisms that you mentioned, especially in regards to cognitive function. There are a lot of dynamics at play and photobiomodulation is still a relatively early field. It's not like it's been around 100 years. And so there are different mechanisms that when I say we're continuing to learn about, it's us on the industry side in partnership with researchers. But one of the more

well-understood mechanisms is these wavelengths of light have a unique affinity towards an enzyme during cellular respiration called cytochrome C oxidase or CCO. And because these wavelengths of light resonate with that enzyme, you're actually able to induce normal cellular function during the fourth phase of cellular respiration, oxidative phosphorylation. So because of that, you induce just like, you help your cells actually become more efficient and they function just like they're supposed to function. And that's one of the core mechanisms, but specific to brain function or cognitive function overall,

you do see in post-red light therapy CT scans, this reduction in amyloid plaque. Okay, so that clearing of metabolic waste is enhanced with the efficiency of the cell. Yep. Totally. And so you're inducing the normal cellular function, but there's a lot of other things at play. Like you get enhanced cell signaling, right? And that's probably one of the reasons why you almost get new signaling pathways. And that's pretty well documented. So it can help with like neuroplasticity and things of that nature.

Yep. And you see that a lot in the stroke research with red and near-infrared light therapy. And so there's new signaling pathways. You get enhanced gene transcription. There's some recent research from a group of researchers in Sydney, Australia, that documented that near-infrared light has the ability to produce more healthy balance in your gut microbiome, which is completely counterintuitive

because you wouldn't think near-infrared light would really penetrate as deep as your gut. And so their suggestion was you're definitely seeing a much more metabolic kind of action at play when you're using these wavelengths of light. So bottom line is we're still learning a lot more, but it's clear that you're getting a lot of good stuff happening deep at the, at the, at the, you know, deep at the cellular level, um, which leads to all these, you know, all these, uh, uh, these, these wide variety of benefits. Yeah. I wanted to, I mean, there's, there's so much here where I'm like, Oh, you know, with speaking to the microbiome, it makes, it makes a lot of sense to me just due to the fact that like everything influences the microbiome, it makes a lot of sense to me just due to the fact that everything influences the microbiome.

Your thoughts influence the microbiome. If you're fucking negative Nancy, pessimist, that's not good for the microbiome. If you have a positive outlook on life or outlook on life where you're generally resilient to the challenges that we face on a consistent basis, that shifts the microbiome. Sunlight affects the microbiome. So red and infrared makes a lot of sense to me. A hard workout influences, getting sick influences, all these things play a factor. Taking something like oil of oregano influences it, right? Because it's almost like antibiotics. It's so powerful. It'll wipe out the good and the bad. But what is going on exactly on an

epigenetic level? Because so much can be affected. I remember working with this guy, Ryan Frissinger, who's an epigenetic specialist out here in Austin. And he said at least 500 plus genes are switched on and off based on our sunlight exposure. And obviously there is a spectrum there where too little or too much will affect it negatively, but there's a big curve in the middle where it's affected positively.

And I just wonder how much of this is exactly going on from the Jew, because that's such an important piece of this. And as you stated earlier, Wes, we have this complete imbalance of blue light compared to red and infrared. Yeah, and I'm certainly no epidemiologist by no means, but there's no doubt that this drastic swing in lifestyle from our ancestors, even 150 years ago, to a lifestyle that they largely lived outdoors under natural sunlight, to one that's, as Wes mentioned, about 5% of the day, the average American's day is spent outside. And that's such a drastic change. And so to expect our biological systems to adapt that fast

is probably not a good presumption to make. No chance. And so, yeah, I mean, there's no doubt that, and I haven't dug in deep into the research at all when it comes to kind of the subject, but there's there's no doubt that these being exposed to these wavelengths of light will will induce healthy gene transcription i mean that's that that alone is pretty well documented but i think that sort of

the epigenetic kind of conversation or aspect of that conversation is super interesting for sure and and that's where we're we're at the point where when we're educating folks and they're they're looking at this oh this is a biohack. This is something kind of extra I can do. And it's like, no, this is a fundamental piece of our biology and our health. We need this. And I-

It's like throwing salt in your water and saying it's a biohack. Yeah, I know we need to hydrate. There's some foundational principles here to living well. No doubt, no doubt. And I tell that to more trainers that reach out and they contact us and say, hey, I want this for my athletes. I want to give them that cutting edge. And I always, I take them down this rabbit hole. I say, no. And by the end of it,

they're always like, oh, I get it. I get how important it is. And it's unbelievable how it's just new to them. And so it's something we all need and just very little of light exposure, how much it can just amplify the body. It's incredible how starving our bodies are for it because we're not giving it to it. Yeah. And I think a large part of that too is the narrative we've been sold.

Similar to, you know, you look at the ketogenic diet, for example, and our views on cholesterol and dietary cholesterol specifically, it's like there's been like we've been misinformed. And you can say that's due to big agriculture or the FDA or AMA, whatever you want to label that with as far as who's to blame. But the point is not to blame.

The point is to say like we've been misinformed. Egg yolks are fucking good for you, right? And so is light. And if you're from Sweden, you're going to need far less sunlight than if you're from Africa to create vitamin D3 and some different things like that and all the other things that go with that. But we all need light, period.

We're not meant to be indoors all day long. So this is such a good hack because it allows us to jump in and fit it into our schedule. I'm very fortunate because I have one of these at my house and we've got him here, had on it. Aubrey's got one of them in his personal bathroom, which I get to use. It all works out. I get to have my exposure. Where do you guys see this going in the future? I mean, what are some of the ways different researchers are looking at this as far as

the implications and effectiveness? So I think it's super broad because it's such a compelling therapy and has such a wide variety of applications. I mean, I can probably speak to what we're getting more involved with. There's a couple of different clinical studies that we're about to commence on, some of which have already started, but there's a group in Minneapolis that we're working with that is looking at the combination of red light and ketogenic diets and the synergy between the two because it's our theory, it's our hypothesis

that there is a lot of synergy between the two. Some of that's supported by a group of researchers in Southern California with the Center for Deuterium Depletion. What is deuterium? Deuterium is a heavy hydrogen isotope. And I'm not going to do this topic justice at all. But Dr. Laszlo Boros, who's an M.D. in the Department of Immunology at UCLA,

he's widely considered one of the foremost leaders in this field. And this heavy hydrogen isotope is really abundant in our bodies as well as just our environment. But when that gets out of whack, just like anything else, it actually will break almost like the metabolic water in our cells becomes super heavy. And it'll break the nanomotors that spin along the electron transport chain. And so when those things break, almost like pistons in an engine, when those things break, they can't be repaired. And so your cells just do not function right. They don't produce energy like they're supposed to. And red and near-infrared light have a unique ability to naturally deplete deuterium. And so it actually changes the viscosity in your metabolic water. And so everything just functions faster.

It's more efficient. It's, you know, there's a host of different things that go on through that. But that's kind of their theory. And ketogenic diets, ironically, help lower deuterium depletion levels as well, naturally. And so the synergy between the two, I think, makes a ton of sense. And so we're actually starting to enroll patients now that are on a healthy diet, on a ketogenic diet, and then doing keto plus full-body red light therapy. I think that's super interesting to see the benefits there.

Another one that we're working on now is evaluating hormonal health in men and women using full-body light therapy, specifically in men, testosterone versus estrogen ratios, and then in women, estrogen versus progesterone ratios. Because that's kind of like a healthy baseline. If those are out of whack, then your hormonal function isn't great all around. So it's a good place to start.

So those are kind of some of the areas that we're interested in as a company. But there's so many different therapeutic arenas that you could play in. But I think those are kind of super interesting for us to explore in more detail. Yeah, I'm super excited because I'm actually in the category of Juve plus the ketogenic diet.

And I actually started them at the same time. So I got my blood work because we're going to test testosterone and things like that. I went through a wellness effects and it was like a grand worth of blood work. They tested everything from omega-3 levels to all different hormones and a complete CBC, you know, the whole look and everything looked pretty good. There were some things that I'd switch around and need to work on, but now entering a ketogenic diet for the first time in probably eight months to a year and stacking that with the Juve, I'm really curious to see what comes up. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be super interesting. Yeah. And just saying like blood work, I mean, how much is that important? I mean,

it's like looking at the oil of a car. I mean, I myself fall behind of getting blood work, but just how simple is it to go do it and just get that report back and just look at it. What am I lacking in? What do I need to switch up? And I think that this kind of falls into light as people have that figured out. We know what light is. It's illumination. It helps us see. But yet at the same time, nobody questions why there's a solar panel on the roof. What's it doing up there? It's capturing energy. What do our bodies do? Captures energy. You know, so too much in life, we look at things and we have that predisposition where

we know what that is. And then I think like blood work, getting that done and looking at it, be like, okay, well, what I've been doing, I don't have it quite figured out because I'm not where my blood work wants to be. You know, it's so simple. Yeah. Yeah. You look at something like magnesium RBC and you're like, oh, I guess I'm not where my blood work wants to be. You know, it's so simple. Yeah, yeah. You look at something like magnesium RBC

and you're like, oh, I guess I'm not getting enough magnesium in my diet. You know, like, and then obviously so much of our modern world has changed, you know, everything from, you know, mono farming where we have a depletion of soil quality going into even our organic stuff. You know, if it's a fucking giant kale

field and kale is really high in vitamin A and different nutrients, over time, it's not going to be high in those nutrients anymore unless they're adding it back to the soil or doing crop rotation and things like that. And the same thing can be said for our light exposure. So many athletes have this idea about, and people in general, but it's like, oh yeah, yeah, I know, I should drink more water. And then Greenfield comes along and he's saying things like, we don't have a problem with how much water we drink and fluids we drink. We have a problem with electrolyte and mineral balance. People are not salting their water or they're afraid of salt because of what we've been force fed from a young age.

And now we start to see that shift in health and wellness. And outside of that, you know, as professional athletes kind of move the bar in a lot of these categories, people reverse engineer that back down to everyday people. And it makes a lot of sense with exception to something like Gatorade where, you know, like, yeah, in the swamp lands playing football for three hours, you're going to need some sugar. No doubt. But everyone else who's going to the gym for 30 minutes does not need 60 grams of fucking fructose. They don't need the big orange Gatorade, no? No, they don't need that.

You won't find it on vending machines over at the gym? No, we don't sell it. We don't sell it in the cafe. God, that's so funny. I just remember Gatorade as a kid looking at it. Like, this is healthy. I'm healthy. I'm not drinking soda.

I'm drinking Gatorade. It's so funny how that's turned. is healthy. I'm healthy. I'm not drinking soda. I'm drinking Gatorade. It's so funny how that's turned. I think you summed it up with one of your statements earlier, Kyle. Like, it's not about, like, blaming any organizations, whether it's the AMA, like, bigger organizations like that, the AMA. I mean, I even think of, you know, the skincare community, derms and estheticians. Their, like, their advice to most people is just avoid the sunlight.

Or if you're out, you got to slap on sunblock, right? That's not I mean generally speaking. That's probably not going to be the you know great advice To most people we're not proponents of going out on you know Once a once a weekend and just blasting yourself with with sunlight and just frying your skin That's not a great next step but the reality is sunlight specifically is an important factor in health. And it's not about blaming,

but it's about trying to solve for some of those gaps that are a little bit more obvious than others and making sure people understand like, hey, light can be a good thing. Just be more cognizant of it, how much you're getting on a daily basis. And maybe if you're new on a daily basis. And maybe if you're new to this topic, the next step isn't to go buy a red light therapy device.

We'd like the business, of course, but maybe your next step is just, hey, take a break during the day. Take a 10 minute break and just try to go get some more sunlight. Yeah. My buddy Mark Bell talks about that, the 10 minute walk challenge., you know, and he does, I think he does 10 minute podcasts now too, his little, little interims that you can listen to on the walk, but you just get out, go outside and fucking walk for 10 minutes. You can do it after you eat lunch. You can do it first thing in the morning. You can do it at the end of the day. You can do it all three, right? But just get out for 10 minutes, get outside and actually move a little bit. Yeah. So important. Oh yeah. So hard, hard to do though for most people, but, but it's just like, it's just like anything

if you want to get serious about your health you got to start by evaluating your diet that's like again entry into the game but all this other stuff that we're talking about they're key aspects whether it's emotional health making sure that's dialed in or taking a break during the day

a 10 minute break every single day really adds up cumulatively over time and so those are like just relatively straightforward easy next steps you know and if if that's super hard for someone to do you know yeah i mean you know a big red light therapy device can certainly be a you know a nice supplement but you know it doesn't stop it doesn't you know it it's it's not a it's not a way to like uh completely remove yourself from from nature and getting more sunlight and walking around maybe barefoot outside every now and then. Yeah, getting grounded.

I think about that too when I talk about nootropics and different things that enhance cognitive function. Obviously at Onnit we sell AlphaBrain and it's fucking amazing. It's one of my favorite products. It's what drew me to the company outside of Aubrey. But nothing replaces a good night's sleep. You know what I'm saying?

Like you could take every nootropic on earth, all the caffeine in the world, and if your sleep is shit, your cognitive function is shit. It really doesn't matter how you grease the wheels with nicotine and different things that can enhance that. You've got to sleep well, right? And the same can be said for light. So I think it's really cool what you guys are doing,

and I'm super excited to be able to work with you guys and hopefully get some good data from just one, the old N equals one. Still valid, still valuable information, in my opinion. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, very cool. Well, what do you guys, I mean, we talked a little bit about the future of what you're looking at.

Is there anything else you guys feel like discussing when it comes to Juve? I mean, when it comes to our products specifically, I'll just kind of plug the design of our products. I think it's important. One of our core thesis as a company is that everyone should have the opportunity to experience full body light therapy, ideally in a home setting because that's just more convenient. And so we designed our devices in a modular fashion. And what I mean by that is kind of like Lego blocks. You can start with one device

and then add to it over time to build out one of the big full-body systems. So you don't have to do it all now. It's kind of like Sonos for audio. You buy one speaker and then you buy another set of speakers and they automatically connect. And they connect together physically and electronically. So one device then controls like Sonos.

That's a great example that one device controls the whole system. And so that's pretty unique about our setup. So if you're if you want to, you know, limp in. Yeah, exactly. If you want to if you want to limp into the red light therapy game, you don't have to like go all in with some massive spin. You can start just with one

and then, you know, if you like it, you know, build out, you know, build out that full body system over time. I think it's, it's, it's a good option too, for people who are really afraid of the sun. You know, if you can at least get past dispelling some of the bullshit we've been fed around that. There are some people who have, you know, red hair that are just, they're not going to do well with a ton of sunlight, but they're not going to get burned from this either. Right. You know, so you can experience a lot of the benefits of the sun and then still getting out to get the full sunlight for at least the minimum effective dose that's required for all people and all body types. I think that's super important. Yep. No doubt. Yeah. And I think what

we're going to see is folks are, it's just like you said, the sun's misunderstood. And now we're going to learn, let's use that powerful tool to our advantage. You know, it's, I mean, it's the most powerful thing hitting the earth without the sun, the earth is non-existent. So I think that's what we're going to be seeing more and more is, hey, how do we optimize, you know, the most powerful thing hitting the earth without the sun, the earth is non-existent. So I think that's what we're going to be seeing more and more is, Hey, how do we optimize, you know, the most powerful tool that we have on the earth, which is, which is a sun. That's awesome. Yeah. It's cool. It's cool stuff. Like I said earlier, I, I, it, the space is super interesting to us. Obviously we're biased because we sell products, uh, in, in kind of this arena, but there's so much science here. Um, and then you combine that with kind of like tying it into sort of the ancestral kind of narrative there.

It's just a cool space to operate in. And we're stoked to like continue to do more creative things when it comes to full-on clinical studies or in of one experiments with like yourself looking at your, your blood work. So just a fun, a fun space to, to operate in. And we're excited at, at kind of what,

what the future holds for everyone and how they think about light in general, you know, for overall health. Fuck yeah. This has been awesome guys. I appreciate having you guys on. Where can people find you? Best, best places is, is, is, is our website. But if you go to juve.com j-o-o-v-v so two o's two v's dot com forward slash kyle uh and you want to you know limp into the into the the red light therapy game we'll set up uh you know some sort of uh some sort of special there

where you can you can uh if you listen to the show you can you can take advantage of that that's awesome i'm sure everyone will appreciate that for sure. Yeah, that's the best place to start. We're also active on social, at Juve Social on Instagram and Facebook. So you can find us there. Awesome, guys. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks, Kyle. Awesome. Thanks for having us. Thank you guys for tuning in. I hope you dug the science behind Juve and red light therapy. We're going to link to a lot of that science in the show notes. And just to let y'all know, I will be guinea pigging this myself. I've already taken preliminary blood work. I'm using it daily for about 20 minutes a day, 10 minutes each side.

And some of the things I already noticed is just improved mental clarity, better sleep, and more vasodilation, which is important for athletic performance and bedroom performance. So very happy with it, with the results thus far, and I will be sure to post down the road exactly what happens with my testosterone. Thank you guys for tuning in and make sure you go to juve.com slash Kyle for your very own discount.