LadyGang - Alexis Linkletter

Episode Date: May 3, 2022

True crime powerhouse, TV host, Podcast Writer and Jac’s best friend, Alexis Linkletter, is co-hosting the show while Keltie is on the set of Superfan. She’s sharing how she started her career in true crime and some of the craziest cases she’s helped solve. Check out our amazing sponsors!!! Birdy Grey: Use code LADY at BirdyGrey.com to get FREE shipping in the US with your swatch order! CBDX: Go to CBDX.com and use code LADY for 20% off your first order – AND you’ll get a free gram of dry bud! Chime: Get started with Chime today at Chime.com/lady - Applying for a free account takes less than 2 minutes! Daily Harvest: Give Crumbles a try today! Go to DailyHarvest.com/lady to get up to $40 off your first box! Ritual: Get 10% off during your first 3 months at Ritual.com/ladygang  Rothys: Get $20 off your first purchase at Rothys.com/ladygang See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Big announcement here. Our second book, our sophomore book, Lady Secrets, Real, Raw, and Ridiculous Confessions of Womanhood is available now for pre-order. Head over to theladygang.com slash secrets to pre-order your book now. We're so excited about this. Thank you to our community who submitted all of their deepest, darkest secrets. And there's a couple sprinkled in there from yours truly

and the other two dum-dums on this podcast. We love you guys so much for your support. We're so excited for you guys to read this. head on over and order lady secrets at theladygang.com slash secrets well what is this welcome to the lady gang that's amazing say that again the lady gang things are about to change around here each week we catch up with hollywood's hottest girl posse kelty knight becca tobin and jack vanik hello hello hello welcome to the lady gang i'm beck tobin here with jack vanik and a very special guest a very special guest it's been six years of doing the lady gang and we haven't

done an episode without kelty until today like this is our very first kelty list episode and the only person that could fill kelty shoes is the other kelty in my life alexis linkletter i have a theory that we probably can't be in the same place at the same time like and that's probably why this is the way it's unfolding there's two your guys's energy i was going to talk about this a little bit later, but like, you're both like heavy, heavy Enneagram threes. Like you're both have very stressful energy, like neurotic energy. And I think, yeah, you need to be on opposite corners of my life. So it's, it's good that you're replacing her today. I think so. Hi Kelty. She'll probably listen, right. To make sure it all went okay.

Are you kidding? She's going to be like, nobody can replace me. You know, it was funny. I was reading through our book because obviously Lady Secrets is coming out soon. We're doing our like last pass throughs and she was talking about the walking dead and how she can't watch it because it's like too violent for her and it's like what she calls her brain diet that's why she can't like she doesn't even acknowledge that we have a true crime podcast because it's too scary for her so this is the only way we can get you on that works that works for me i i it's not for everybody not for everybody not for everybody no like music's not for everybody becca music's not for everybody no that's true just you know i like to say of all i'm a very like moderate person with all of my

passions and true crime i fall very much in the middle of which is why i felt like it you'd be a great guest because i am very intrigued by it but i also have my boundaries with it i don't understand when people talk about falling asleep to dateline um i don't you know what i mean like it's, I can't watch forensic files. So I like it. I used to listen to my, my favorite murder for a while. You know, when you bring a little bit of like the lightness with the murder, it's all how you, it's all how you give it. So it's balanced. So I'm really excited to have you come on because I feel like I'm not the only woman who feels this way. Yeah. I feel like most people feel like there are somewhere around you dabbling or they have like a complicated relationship with it

and with their own fears about mortality and i think that's what it all stems from yeah yeah you're right you're right so um jack did a little bit of a rundown but like can you give us give us um your elevator pitch of of alexis and who she is and what she does well wait do we want to wait for this for the do we need to do good week bad week oh shit sorry okay sorry see this is what i mean kelty this is what i mean kelty she alexis is joining us for good week yes it is bad week oh no who would like to go first i'll go great um my bad week is kind of a bad week by proxy for jared but it will it would be a bad week for anybody kind of but jared so i this is before that i went on tour with jared and i was like texting him and i was like

what are you doing you know with your day blah blah he's like oh we're in the middle of nowhere like this place fort stockton texas and he's like and i just got mcdonald's there's like nothing else going on in this town and i was like oh okay you know sucks to be there and then i get a dm becky you know the story i get a dm on instagram like five minutes later and this girl goes her name is marie she goes i just saw jerry and the main at a mcdonald's in fort stockton texas such a random place to see someone i recognized i was excited but didn't want to bother him so i have eyes everywhere i have eyes in fort stockton texas of all places and if jared was anybody but jared like he should be terrified that he can't do anything without me seeing at any

in anywhere in this world also the way that that actually went was you got the dm first did i yes so you get the dm and then the funny thing is that jared texts you're texting with him and you're like how are you you didn't tell him that you got this dm it just wasn't like the top of your whatever yeah and he goes i just had i'm in this town it's so small like i just had mcdonald's and you wrote i know and then sent him the dm screenshot i love it i know where you are at all times everywhere i have eyes everywhere like thank god he's not a sketchy guy because if he pulled anything i would find out literally before he even did it well look at it it's like look at all these celebrities who can't get away with anything ben affleck's getting called out for

messaging that girl on raya from selling sunset oh yeah he can't get away with anything i know yep sucks to be shitty that's right i love it um okay so my bad week uh i was getting on a plane I think I was coming to LA. Yeah. I was coming to LA to do our book shoot or whatever. And you know, Alexis, I don't know if you know this about me, but I'm very insecure about my height. I'm five foot three and it's really annoying when Jack and Kelty wear giant shoes at photo shoots, you know, with me, because it's like, I said to Jack and Kelty, I was like, this is just very, it's disrespectful. You know what I mean? Like I'm already short, take one for the team and wear a two inch or a three inch heel and you know, whatever. So they don't because they're dicks.

They're selfish. So I have a five and a half inch heel. Yeah. So I have a complex naturally, and I'm not feeling my best going into this photo shoot because like I'm a brand new mom and I haven't had time to do anything. Like my hair looks like shit. My nails look like shit. everything looks like shit. And I'm getting on the plane and it's just going to be a really quick trip. And I'm like, you just got to feel hot for like an hour. You just got to feel hot for an hour. You can do it. I can do it. And I'm behind this guy as we're boarding the plane. And he's like this like 55 year old guy who clearly takes steroids. He's like jacked up and like dainty and tan and just kind of like gives me bad vibes already. We're getting on the plane

and he has three bags with him you know he has a personal item carry on and hanging bag and the gate agent very nicely says sir you have too many items you need to check the carry on a reasonable question or reasonable request he's like i travel four days a week and i always bring this with me and i always bring this and i always bring she's like i can't tell you about those other times but this is my job and blah blah very nice you know everybody knows you can only have two items they announced it like 65 times throughout the course of being in the airport to taking off yeah and i was also looking at this dipshit being like you could have hit it you could have put the little bag inside the garment bag and walked right past her you

an idiot anyway you do you put it no you have to go to one of those stores you get a plastic big plastic bag then you put your third bag in there yeah just get one of those ikea blue duffel things and throw everything in there you throw yourself in there they're so big dude people were doing that on the subway in new york because they're like you can carry a dog that's big enough to fit in a bag so they were having like saint bernard's in these giant like it fits in a bag that's the rule that's genius yeah oh my god okay that's great so he checks his bag no so he's just bitching and whatever and i think she makes him check his bag i don't know but then he walks away and as he walks away for her to hear it he goes yeah you and your five three power trip because

she was probably my height and he called her out on her height you and your five three and your power trip like we have little man syndrome or something and i was like sir she's just doing her job and i was like this guy so anyways i was like i always thought and assumed that only men get trolled for when they're short but no apparently women also get trolled when they're short by men so oh my god what a dick she's just doing her job yeah and if she was tall he would have said oh you think because you're tall you're as powerful as a man i guess there's no win that was the first dig of that nature that i've heard and i just you know it was terrible but my good week it's always about my self-esteem these days my good week is we recently had craig from summer

house on the lady gang as a guest he was wonderful he's so funny and um we posted about him when it aired and you know our normal thing and then i see that after i posted my story about him coming on the podcast he reposts my story and he said i was always such a huge fan of glee this was really exciting for me oh and he never said on the podcast like he he didn't mention being a fan of glee he didn't i was like thinking to myself that he was just looking at all of us like these old ladies because he's dating like the hottest girl ever yeah like she's like late 20s page from summer house so anytime i'm with a guy like that i'm always so insecure when i'm just less hot than the girl that they're with you know and it doesn't help that whenever we record podcasts we don't do

anything to make ourselves like look presentable so we look like haggard old broads no you don't but i i'm gonna get on board with the self-deprecation because it's how i am too so but i disagree but yes but i had known but that was my good week it was really flattering i mean in hindsight i wish that i had dressed up and really like wowed him with like a lingerie cleavage cleavage so now i i feel like he's really he's a dear friend um i love that that makes sense that he was a fan of glee like it just it tracks i think yeah i love that Oh, I'm a secret fan. Okay, Alexis.

Okay. So I'm excited about my bad week because it's kind of a full circle lady gang moment. Oh, so I have a secret obsession that I have only barely mentioned to Jack. Zigley. Yes. And another, another podcast guests that you guys have had actually, uh, my sis, my little sister and I, Sophia are obsessed with the skinny confidential and we do everything Lauren Bostic says pretty much.

that's why i never told you jack because i would shoot because i feel like you need to like me more you know that's right that's right but i just i like her stuff and for christmas i bought my sister and i the matching skinny confidential canopy humidifiers that she was making they're pink they're really cool they're expensive but like we got matching ones and the little oils that smelt that she designed it's it's a this is who i am i'm bearing my truth so we go to jared's show at house of blues on friday night last week and we all get drunk we're all just just a just a wild night like truly like we let some inner demons out it was strange but it was really fun through fireball yeah yeah so i get home i'm like i'm gonna now create my uh zen sleep environment

and I go to fill up the canister like for the water tank of my skinny confidential canopy thing and I'm so tipsy I'm drunk frankly I fill it up and I drop it and it explodes on my bedroom floor like a gallon of water at like 3 3 a.m it was and I was just like no holy it was so upsetting and it broke which is the worst part and then my what are you gonna do at 3 a.m it was a a puddle a gallon of water all over the floor so i just left it and then i forgot about it and then i woke up in the morning and i walked in it and i was like reminded of the whole thing all over again and it was just really sad and i threw it in the trash this morning the whole thing oh no yeah and they don't make them anymore so that's i don't think so i think it was limited

edition you know that the drop demand culture damn it yeah it was i i got it so that was the first thing um now i don't have a humidifier and it was limited edition and i'm sad but and then that's my bad week right did i do that right yeah that's perfect that's good that's a bad week okay my good week also involves jack on sunday we're all still recovering from friday so we go to my boyfriend's boat down in marina del rey and we take me and jack take a stand-up paddleboard that we're both sitting on and i'm paddling her like i drive a gondola in italy yeah i feel like yeah we're in like the venice canals and i was being driven around right we're like deep in the marina and it's the weirdest thing you go out there and men just see

two girls floating on a paddleboard and everyone stops and people start throwing full cans of beer to us like you want a drink and like people are throwing us beers and i was like this feels good like it's like honestly it's you will never be hit on more than if you are sitting on a paddleboard in the water in any marina like really we were like the hadid sisters and like everybody was vying for our love and like trying to be with us by throwing beers at us i was like this is i've never felt hotter every boat that passed us slowed down because it's all dudes it's all dudes every jet ski every other paddleboarder and i was like we're just trying to talk because like you're really in this peaceful environment you have no phone and me and jack were literally just talking

about life and beer cans were just coming out of nowhere but luckily they float so they bob so i'd be able to like swim over and get one that we missed it was honestly like it was an amazing experience important question because i don't want girls to be disillusioned and go out on a marina and a paddleboard and like not get this kind of attention because i'm assuming i know exactly the kind of swimwear jack was in yeah can you tell us what kind of swimwear you were in i was wearing a beach riot bikini with a hat hers wasn't as you know as as provocative mine was mine was more for sport for sports sporty she's a little bit more trying to live like the maritime sort of a vibe down there on that boat so it was like a blue and white

sort of like nicely covered nautical appropriate bathing suit okay so you can also so they were throwing the beer cans probably at jack listen anything to get a free drink you know okay when we come back alexis is going to give us a little glimpse into the scary side of life spooky so the 2022 wedding boom is a real and birdie gray makes it easy for brides to find the perfect bridesmaids dresses all under a hundred dollars all of birdie gray's bridesmaid dresses are priced at $99. They have chiffon dresses that are perfect for traditional bridal party. They also have sexy satin gowns that you can totally double as a wear again option if you're attending 10 other weddings. And let me tell you something. People always say that, oh, you can wear it again. It's

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time obviously we have a guest on kelty writes this like amazing intro so i did my best to take a stab at it. I bet it's great. I love you. Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. The imposter syndrome is going to kick in real soon. So I'm going to brace myself for it. I took it mostly from your bio. I didn't, I didn't, you know, do anything crazy. Okay. Our guest today is not only my best friend and business partner, but one of the smartest people I know. And that is true. This woman is a literal true crime powerhouse. She's a documentary producer, investigative journalist, podcast writer, interviewer, and TV host. She's launched true crime projects such as unraveled unmasking a killer for cnn deadly recall and investigation

discovery and hosted the true crime talk show talking evil on discovery plus which was one of the most insane things that i've ever seen in my life and like i've never seen anybody so talented she's the driving force between she's the driving force and genius behind our other podcast the first degree and it would be nothing without her she's the george costanza to my jerry seinfeld and can rock a wednesday adams look like no other after six years a lady gang welcome to the podcast alexis link letter gosh that was the nicest thing i'm like choking up i mean like like i said it's almost verbatim from your bio so then i had to throw in your own little flair in there which i thought was really sweet thank you that was awesome i have a question for you about like your

your career we always have these girls who want to like pursue something that's not corporate yeah and when you were young what was the thing you were chasing what was the goal what was that Cause it's like, you kind of curated your own career out of a whole lot of different skills. And I think there's a lot of girls who listen to lady gang who feel that way. Yeah. How did you zero in on it? Like what was your trajectory kind of into this?

I think just boiling it down to a super practical, practical steps. I knew senior year that I hated New York and I knew that I wanted to work in the entertainment industry, but I didn't know what I wanted to do. So the first thing I did was I just put myself in the right city. I moved to L.A. and I tried to hone in on what it is I wanted to do because I went to school for communications, which could apply to what I do now. But I thought I wanted to do PR first. I was like, ooh, I'll be like Samantha Jones, like parties and parties and this and that. Like that was what I wanted to do.

And then I did that for a couple of years and I hated it. So then I had to go start from the bottom somewhere else. I was working as an assistant at Discovery Studios for three producers. Jack and I were friends then. It was the most difficult job I've ever had. I had a really mean, abusive boss, abusive. It was really hard. And then, but there they were producing true crime shows and that's sort of where I got

exposed to it. And my next job after that was doing research for true crime shows. And it just, you know, every year I just moved closer and closer and honed in on what I wanted to do. And Jack was the one who actually introduced me to the world of podcasts. You know, we were best friends and she was having with you and Kelty all the success with Lady Gang. And I was like, you know, I really want to do a true crime podcast. She's like, me too. And we sort of started sculpting the concept that way. And without First Degree and Jack,

I never would have been able to do Unraveled. Like really, she has been my biggest supporter and facilitator in that way. But I think for people who are trying to zero in on what they do, like find your industry, put yourself in the right place and start doing internships and things like that to really just hone in. And the second part would be once you realize what you want to do, you just have to work double time. You know, I was working full-time producing true crime TV, even though I started really at the bottom. And then at night and weekends, we were hustling, writing episodes of the first degree and figuring out how that looked. And I was working two jobs. You know, I still am, but that's, that's how you do it. Cause you know what your,

your passion project might not work out, but your day job should still be in the field that you're interested in. And they usually help each other grow. And that's exactly what happened. because your day job is what exactly now so right now i'm working as an executive producer on a series for cnn plus well they're going to move it now they just canceled that streaming service but it's for cnn uh called all that remains and it's a it's it's based on a case that i was actually exposed to through first degree so like find a way and jack does this too very well find a way for all your different streams of income to help elevate each other yeah like jack does this better than anyone i know where she's so good at merch and she makes that work for her lady gang

in first degree all of the things she does promotes the other thing she does you know jack's really the best person at this and i try to take some notes from her just in a different a completely different genre yeah and i think that it's it's also just the thing where everybody thinks that you know it's like wow how did you get so successful and like with everything it takes 10 years to make an overnight success like that kind of steam and I feel like rings true for what you did Lex like you really did like start from the bottom and it like took a long time to and you're you're still kind of going up those steps to get to the place that you really want to be so I think that it's a lot easier to like look at somebody from the outside and be like wow

that looks easy like I think I'll just do that like a lot of people too your first step is actually probably the most important it was physically leaving your comfort zone you know there's a lot of people out there who want to do all these really cool things and have dreams of these big things but they can't happen where they are geographically um and so that's a lot of the time like that you can't even get started if you're not willing to make that first like uncomfortable leap the jump jump and not only that it's beyond geography it's you can't you can't put yourself in a rut with people who aren't also motivated you can't stay in the same group of friends that are complacent you know and for me high school that's like i had to just

completely reinvent myself because high school sucked you know um and that's something i was really excited to do and it really helped because you can't still be what you perceive people to see you as and also reinvent yourself you need to kind of just be like total fish out of water experience right okay so i want to talk about i know becca wanted to talk about like specific cases i want to talk about Unraveled and Long Island Serial Killer because this was like your passion project for like five years and you sort of helped unlock this whole new thing with an unsolved case and it's insane so can you give Becca like a TLDR of what your whole role is with that and then she can ask questions sure so let me find the best way to paraphrase so I would say

probably five years ago a guy i knew from high school who i was friends with in high school his name's chris uh we started talking he was in jail at the time and he told me that he had this information about a government official who was super high up who was connected to the case of the long island serial killer long island serial killer is an unsolved series of homicides 10 victims uh between you know the 90s and 2010 they started to be dumped on the stretch of beach and they were found um after a woman had gone missing from a neighborhood right near this location in the search for her they start finding these bodies they find her last so they dub this person who's who's ever done this the long island serial killer now it turns out the police chief

who was overseeing this investigation nothing was happening this case was never really solved they weren't doing anything to solve it and the police chief it seemed like he was almost doing it on purpose and he kind of was because it turns out these were all sex workers by the way it turns out he has a history with sex workers and in fact he was attending sex parties right where these bodies were found in in engaging in sex work with sex workers so in a completely unrelated incident my friend chris breaks into this guy's car and steals a duffel bag full of sex toys and pornography and some other strange pair snuff films other strange paraphernalia film so a snuff film is technically like designated as a film where someone is killed and it's it's filmed and then

these are sold on the black market allegedly you know um so chris didn't know the the car he'd broken into and stolen the bag out of was actually the police chiefs these were his items so he basically the police chief finds him beats him up throws him in jail um and he's silenced for several years until basically like we start talking and we helped give him a platform to tell his story and um we think that this police chief sabotaged the investigation of the long island serial killer to cover up his own indiscretions and that's like our working theory because there's no reason why it shouldn't have been solved you know um it was just a neglected case. And now, you know, we're 12 years out, it's going to be harder and harder to solve.

And it has been, you know, um, so that's really how unraveled started. And the thing I'm most proud about with that is that we pitched this to networks and everyone passed, including discovery plus an ID. Um, so it's a lesson in like not letting three years later, they ended up buying it you know and then they bought four more um they're like we want five of these so it's a lesson to not give up you know and it's something it was something I would have pursued for no money like I worked on this for five years investigating it and documenting and things like that so it's my most you know I'm really proud of that just because I didn't give up even though everybody said no yeah um and it really was a pivotal like turning point for my career which I'm just super

grateful to even have had the opportunity but that's the story with that I tried to keep it as succinct as I could it's so complicated and yeah wait so okay I have a couple questions did this friend from high school reach out to you because he knew that you were sort of like in this world of true crime or did you like how did that meet up happen I can't remember if I reached out to him or he reached out to me but it was I know for me it was because I wasn't looking to reconnect with friends from high school at all like this so it was certainly I started talking to his girlfriend because he was at in jail so they had I had to figure out how to contact him and visit him and things like that um but yeah I was like hey this is the world I'm working in do

you need a platform um and that's it just grew from there so we started talking more often and visiting and he there was a lot of times that he was like like refused to talk to you or you had convince him to like continue on because obviously it's like very um it's very vulnerable place for him to be in too just like sharing a story like that knowing like the power that the police could have over him yeah he had a lot of notoriety in the police department everyone knew who he was so there was a lot of fear because there was a lot of political corruption and also like he was also a brat you know he's an addict he has a really erratic personality i would say this to his face um so yeah and he would be just demanding and he's a very difficult person um i have a lot of

respect for him but i'm gonna that's the truth yeah well and like so they filmed part of this or they filmed a whole documentary that was on discovery and alexis and billy would have you were like going to this police chief's house and like knocking on the door and alexis is dressed in her like really cute little dress and it's like the scare like for me that's terrifying because you don't know what these people are capable of and now you're putting yourself in the line of fire with a camera like it's spooky so so when we knocked on the police chief's door to try to get him to talk to us i knew that you guys were maybe going to ask like maybe what one of my most embarrassing professional moments and it goes hand in hand with that moment yes please

because i was terrified and i was holding an umbrella and like billy knocks on the door and for some reason the umbrella like ejected out like at that very moment and i was like trying to like put it back in i knew the camera i was like mother that was the nerdiest shit anyone could ever do ever luckily the editor is like kind of finessed it but you still see me launching that like umbrella i was like what just this is supposed to be such a suspenseful moment you're Like, this is the most important moment that they filmed the entire thing. Like, if he opens up the door, somebody's like, he's not home. And Alexis is, like, fumbling with her umbrella.

No, like, Jerry Poppins. It was awful. Did, is he retired, the police chief? Mm-hmm. He went to jail for what he did to my friend Chris. So he went to jail for 36 months. So, and then he's out. And now he's just out and about, bopping around.

do you feel like you're ever going to figure out what happened or who the serial killer was yeah i do i do i don't i don't necessarily think it's him i think he's done worse than we know and i know he's a violent guy i've heard a lot of stories about beating sex workers up allegedly and things like that um i think i think he's responsible for for why we haven't caught him though you know and i do think i think they'll catch him like the the current police are under so much pressure after this blunder of like having this corrupt police chief that they have to do something that's so that's so cool like so it's wild is what is the so that's obviously something that would keep you up at night and you're constantly thinking about is there another

like unsolved case that you've obsessed over in the past or what's like if someone says tell me like the most true crime story that you've ever heard or whatever what is it there's so many that it's like and they're all they're all awful like you know tragic like the loss losing a loved one to old age is awful like imagine the agony of like having someone stolen from you and that's sort of like they're all terrible um what what about collier's story yeah collier's story is incredible uh collier has become a friend and he basically his dad killed his mom and he heard it He was a little boy and 11 years old. And then basically his dad was in control of him because the dad pretended the mom was just missing.

And Collier started meeting with the detective secretly at school and helping helping the detective try to solve it and was like crawling through crawl spaces in the basement looking for his mom's body. He's 12 years old. It's the wildest story I've ever heard. And in a story of resilience, too, I mean, he helped his dad get convicted. he testified against his dad he did help find his mom's body and his mom's body was in the basement of his mistress's house that he bought a house with his mistress and was starting a new life who was pregnant with his child and um he call your help solve his mom's case and he's he's really um come a long way like imagine that how old is he now now he's 44 but what's messed

up is after he helped convict his dad he was put in the foster care system separated from his little sister who was adopted by different family like he's just one hit after the next it's really just disturbing because even the mom's family it was too painful to be around collier i'm like that is so awful awful it just gets worse and worse so i just i have a lot of admiration for people with that kind of resilience like because i don't know that i could survive that it was crazy too because there is so much um like courtroom uh content's not the word of footage from when he is in the courtroom this kid talks better than any adult that i have ever seen in my entire life like he like imagine being put up your father killed your mother and then you are going to be

there to convict your you're the reason and such a big piece of why your father's going to get convicted and he was just like i'm going to do the right thing i'm going to say what i saw and it was like it was crazy it was really incredible and you know collier's just one example of just like these incredible people who triumph over tragedies that we've had on on our podcast the first degree it's like everyone inspires me and it shocks me because i just don't know that i could make it through some of this it's really incredible that's like that's something i always wonder and think about when i look at children who have had one parent murder the other what, how complicated those feelings would be having, like, I guess his weren't all that

complicated because he knew that he needed to basically turn his dad in for what he had done. Um, but I feel like you hear about people maintaining relationships with the parent that's still alive because it's their parent. It's just so up and so sad that like you navigate that as a child it's really um it's really it's it's next level trying to comprehend sort of being thrown into that when you're dealing with puberty and like whether your friends like you like you have so many other immature shit going on at that time that like it's it's hard to fathom you know even you don't even comprehend the concept of death at that point when you're that young and then also it's like you're dealing with denial and then you're going to lose both of

your parents like it's such a complicated like nuanced sort of position to be put in that it's i can't i don't you see stories of people like him like that was the craziest one of the craziest stories i think we ever ever covered yeah for sure i old um i was actually listening to the bitch sesh podcast with um casey wilson and danielle schneider it's like my new obsession and they were joking about i think it was them they were joking about how like every single dateline when it's a husband and wife and one kills the other it's always because they've started a new life with someone else like the affair like the mistress you're saying with collier's dad like why can't people just break up just get a divorce you know is it financially

motivated is it like why why does the murder happen they don't want to go through a divorce and give money. They don't want to share their kids. Like there's, what is it? Do you feel like you even know? I think, I think it's usually one of two things. I mean, and I think they kind of go hand in hand. I think there's just a narcissism that demands everything, you know, and feels entitled to everything, you know, like, um, and women do it, but men do it more. And I think there's an audacity that comes along with being a man that women can never understand and man can never men can never understand that they even have it the privilege that they don't even know so i think they just get carried away with like i'm going to give half my earnings because they

probably think they're the you know yeah the woman reared the children and that's worth less so i'm going to give half my earnings to this person who doesn't want to sleep with me anymore like she's already had the kids somewhere in their subconscious like her she's used up and done anyway. I might as well just, you know, and that's what happens a lot, but it's, it's always narcissistic. Cause even if it's just greed, even when women do it for money, it's, there's a, you have to be narcissistic to feel entitled to somebody's life. Yeah. There's also, I feel like a pride to it too, that some people are like, it's, I have such a sense of pride in myself that I don't want to go through a divorce or I don't want to look like a failure. So it's going to be

a lot easier for me to just like do this thing and try to hide it. And a lot of these people have gotten away with a lot of things in their life that it's just like another thing that you're like ramping up and you're like either sociopathic mind or something to get to a point where like i think i could i could do this i could get away with it i mean i'll just solve right a you know a life insurance policy out for my wife and then like three days later like i'll kill her and no no no they'll just i'll just seem like the grieving husband and a lot of people get away with it so it's like jesus christ didn't isn't it like sociopaths are made psychopaths are born isn't that what it is yes i've heard that and i just think it's so um nuanced right

they're also interchangeable like i feel like everybody's definition is of a psychopath sociopath is different hi everyone it's kelty this episode of lady gang is brought to you by your probiotics are you taking a probiotic if you're not nope need to get in on the game and that's why we're sponsored by ritual ritual symbiotic plus contains two of the world's most studied strains which over 350 publications of human clinical trials ritual is science-backed and research stacked it's more than a probiotic it's a three-in-one capsule with clinically studied prebiotics probiotics and postbiotics from everything that i've learned about my body is that your gut is your second brain so if you're feeling like sluggish or depressed or like not a

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that i learned recently that i'm sure a lot of our listeners don't know um just about you know how you learn that every fingerprint is different it's like a snowflake but that is not true Yeah. So when you look at claims made in the area of forensic science, and I'm putting science in air quotes because science is generally something that needs to be tested. There need to be case studies. There needs to be variables that do not change no matter what. And I won't get too into the weeds of the science, but it needs to be a testable, repeatable theory. And you need to be able to prove that. But there are scientific requirements that make things science. and something we're all taught from a very young age is that everybody's fingerprint is unique

and if you conducted a study and asked everybody what they thought almost everybody would say that but the thing is there's no there's literally no evidence of that you'd have to test you need everybody's fingerprints in the world so it's literally just a theory and fingerprint experts get it wrong all the time all the time and when you like you know there's like expert witnesses on all these trials. And it's like, that's kind of subjective. And an expert witness is only as expert as they are claiming to be. So it's like a lot of the stuff that you kind of think is fact in the true crime world is kind of just, it's all like a theory, I guess. In your word, Jack, subjective is the key to that. Science is not subjective.

So I take issue with like referring to things as forensic science when it's like blood pattern analysis it's like that's literally your opinion about what could have happened it's there's nothing scientific about it it's it's like an art form you know it's not it's subjective so everybody needs to take it with a grain of salt yeah i always had like felt that way when i would watch you know documentaries or whatever it would be where it did not feel like there's an absolute so like blood splatter and there's got to be so many different variables that we don't know they're they're like missing from the thing and what you're guessing so i remember watching like for instance the um what was the case with the woman who fell down the stairs and one of the

theories was that like a staircase staircase the owl theory the owl theory yeah there was a lot of like blood splatter and and the theories and they made it seem so absolute but but at the end they have no clue what happened right like still the problem with that case and this is a problem with a lot of cases is that because the authorities lied it undermines the truth right because they manipulated because same thing the guy who was testifying about the blow poke in the blood spatter he had no experience and he completely lied and it's like now the whole case is ruined like if if law enforcement and they don't have integrity like the i think there's no way to know what happened i think that any anywhere like that was the this is the biggest thing i've learned in

true crime is like there is no way to know what happened like it's all a theory so like unless you have a video of somebody doing it and their dna and a confession it's like anything could happened these people are just like putting together their random puzzle pieces that don't even fit into each other yeah and here's the problem a lot of people don't know this either dna analysis can be subjective so that's it's just because no dna the numbers whatever you get from the testing that's true but then it comes down to like the numbers of alleles that match because you don't always get a whole thing and how you analyze exclude people include people from being a possible match completely subjective so it's just a scary world and you know it's

it could happen to anybody you know a lot of people get wrongfully convicted so how do you feel about like people now who still i amanda knox she's really you know out there now she does podcasts she talks about her experience you know and as somebody who knows very little i have heard enough to be like oh she got so yeah um there are still people who think she did it is that right uh-huh oh yeah yeah some people's minds are never going to change just because you learn they learn through the lens of her guilt they learn through the news and and they were like rapid fire it's all you know cognitive bias it's i mean it's like italian propaganda almost against her. But there's some people who will never, and especially

a lot of psychological things are going on. Like the prosecutor who was, you know, addicted, frankly, to like trying to prove this when you're, when your pride is on the line and you money's on the line and your professional reputation, you will just convince yourself of anything you know and it's it's a cognitive bias problem yeah that's so crazy it is don't you want to get to the one juicy question that we all want answers to oh about alexis's relationship that she'll never talk about on the first degree well it just feels like i would love to talk about it because it feels like i never get to because it's not the appropriate forum but this like is well it's it's funny alexis and billy are both very private with their private lives on the first

degree and i am very open like i could not be more open with my relationship so um there's still people that listen to our podcast that doesn't know that alexis has been in like a relationship for two years two years two years yeah no some people are like have you ever been in a relationship as one of the questions i was like this is great they think i'm like sitting at home reading true crime books never been kissed but they like they've never been kissed but you thrive on that You thrive on like mystery, the elusiveness of Alexis link letter, but it's more exciting. It is more exciting, but yeah, Alexis is, has the most amazing boyfriend in the world. He, um, his only downfall is he's a vegan, but that's okay.

We can live with it. He loves animals. The man loves animals. He actually, he used to have a podcast at podcast one called forked up. Um, he writes vegan cookbooks. They're called bad manners. Um, he's re they're all bestsellers. He's writing his fifth.

his name's matt love you babe he's the best he's the best thing that ever happened to me and like he's fine i finally found the one and i'm so relieved because i've been through hell with jack knows every ex-boyfriend i've had by the way too oh yeah and uh i'm always like cinderella just none of it was really the right fit and um yeah i finally got one well and it's hard to being in like the profession that you're in and it's very intimidating to a lot of guys out there and we all know dating in Hollywood is like the worst. So it's nice when you like you find a guy that lifts you up. Yeah. And I mean, we were really lucky. We were like a COVID couple, you know, we could have been single all through COVID, but we met right at the beginning. So we got to just

spend a lot of time together, which was great. I mean, we, we made the most of it. Are you guys going to have a double wedding then? Yeah, we are. It's Jack's dream. Oh yeah, for sure. I'm like just get the attention off of me alexis is getting married yeah you could get engaged that night that would be exciting no no no you just said you don't want the attention but not that thunder theft like yeah i think that there's nothing worse than when people do that might feel like my biggest like ick in the world and honestly like jack hates attention but the person who hates it probably just either a little less or a little more than her would be me anyway so i you know wouldn't be the one to steal the thunder but um don't worry kelty will do something

i'm sure she should just wear white or something i wish she would she'll do something at my wedding to just just really flip it on its head i'm sure i did want to ask one more thing before we leave and i just think it's really funny because alexis and i always joke about how when you know she in a couple years whatever she's gonna write her true crime tell-all because i don't think people realize that the true crime world is petty there's like affairs going on like it is this little high school world of like just so much shit going on and somebody's got to tell it and it's probably going to be alexis it's probably going to be me only because i like buddy up with everyone really well because i'm not really a true crimey person like my personality i'm like jack i'm like kind

of a basic bitch so i'm i'm also really personable and friendly and like throwing rosés around for people and getting people comfortable you know um so i people tell people like dish to me and i'm just like over here writing everything down we're all going to crime con this weekend i wanted jack to come too but she's going to stagecoach but we're all going to crime con and i don't know there's going to be some drama i know it we're all staying in vegas and i'm just excited to see dr phil because he's going wait dr phil's going to crime con she's like dr phil's super fan oh my god i love dr phil this is so funny to me that man has made it yeah oh yeah he's made it like that man has made it and he's just like well i'm gonna send you to rehab and i'm like

you're like i want to do that i want to have that power over people yeah bad and then his wife robin is just sitting in the front row with her chanel suits and then they walk off together arm and arm i'm like that's the couple goal shit i want like world domination yeah daily talk show they're so rich well they're flying in a private jet he's his own golf cart he's his own golf cart on that set it is nice he's fancy uh well lex thanks for being on the pod guys i am so delighted you guys are my favorite podcast besides the first degree and um kelty when you listen and cut me out of the podcast i wish you were here because you resonate with me and congrats on your show kelty yes congrats on your

joke i know she's out there working all right well we will see you next tuesday thanks for listening the lady gang is produced by alex ingber steve delameter and jared monaco make sure you subscribe rate and review our podcast and if you love it share it with your friends on social media like, oh my god, I just listened to Lady Gang, this episode's so great, swipe up to listen. And if you really want to, which we know you do, please follow us on social, at Kelty, at Becca, at Jack Vanek, and at the Lady Gang. Sign up for our newsletter at theladygang.com and join our secret Facebook group. It's super fun. See you next Tuesday.

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