LadyGang - Billy Jensen

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

Crime journalist and co-host of The First Degree podcast Billy Jensen is in studio to talk about how he became an expert mystery--er--MURDER solver, cracking his first case, and his lifelong love for true crime. Plus...a KILLER game! Special thanks to this episode's sponsors! Hulu – Start your free trial now at hulu.com !  Fabletics – Get 2 pairs of leggings for just $24 (a $99 value) at fabletics.com/ladygang .   Murad – Get 20% off site wide plus free 3 day shipping by going to murad.com/ladygang and using code LADYGANG20 at checkout.  Noom – Sign up for your free trial at noom.com/ladygang .  The Outnet – Visit theoutnet.com/ladygang for more details and use code LADYGANG20 at the shopping bag to receive an extra 20% off your purchase.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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but only with the code RESET at factormeals.ca. Factor, Canada's number one meal delivery service. Hey guys, the following podcast is a Lady Gang Network and Podcast One production, which means it's going to be awesome. Well, what is this? Welcome to the Lady Gang. That's amazing. Say that again. The Lady Gang.

Things are about to change around here. Each week, we catch up with Hollywood's hottest girl posse, Kelty Knight, Becca Tobin, and Jack Vanek. Hola, hola, hola. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Lady Gang. I'm Becca Tobin here with Jack Vanek and Kelty Knight. Ooh, I just had a pretzel thin. It was so salty.

It's so salty. You need a sip of it. I am stressing. About what? We're behind schedule. No, we're not, Kelty. Yes. Oh, we are a little bit.

Who cares? Who cares? We all care so much. But I'm really excited about this episode because I love murder. Yeah, Kelty is the number one murder fan. I'm such a murder fan. Life. I watch everything.

I've seen everything Becca's ever done in her career. I bought every rubber bracelet. Which is a short list. No, it's not. But I can't support your podcast. Well, you can. Just subscribe to it. I do subscribe.

Okay. But I don't listen every week because it's too. Forever. I listened to number one. It was great. Number one was great. It's too dark for you. It's too dark.

I'm kind of the same. I've got to be honest. Yeah. Darkness, old friend. But there are so many people out there who love it. Yeah. No, you're very popular. You're often in the top 200, right beside Lady Gang.

I wish. Here's the thing. I could listen all the time if I didn't have to sleep at my house by myself ever. Yeah. I sleep at my house all the time. Yeah, but you're in an apartment, and something about being- In an apartment's safer. With other people around you.

I agree. I agree. I have an empty lot next to me. Full of murderers. Full of murderers. Perfect place to hide a body. Yeah. Well, it's mostly raccoons, but there could be a murderer.

You never know. All right. Well, now it's time for- Good week. Yes, it is. Bad week. Oh, no. Who wants to go first?

Me. I'm standing in line. You know I love good week. She started before we even. No, I'm getting ready. Okay. So good week. You guys know I love a rule.

And what I hate the most is when I see someone breaking a rule and like I want to go and yell at them and be like, don't break the rules. But I'm at LAX, right? And I'm in the taxi line. I'm trying to get a taxi because the Uber, it's like 25 minute wait for an Uber. I'm like, fine, I'll just go to the taxi line. So go to the taxi line. The taxi line takes me an hour and a half to get a taxi.

to go home. I'm waiting in line. The line is so long. It's Sunday night at LAX. It's crazy. This woman in her Gucci bomber tries to bud the line and the entire line of like 55 people went nuclear. Hey, that's not the line. The line's back there. You're trying to bud in line and she's like, oh, no one's taking this van. We'll take a van. There's six of us. And they're like, we all want the van. Like it was like insane. I love watching adults enforce the rules that's all bad week oh my god that's my good week wow my bad week i was in bed and i was searching on instagram and you know when you fall down like a k-hole of instagram and you don't really know how you got there yeah i spent an entire hour of my life

so incredibly deep in britney spears's instagram oh yeah it was party babe no i know i know you guys have done it we've all yeah but i was like oh yeah right britney like i've perused but i've never gone so deep into like it is crazy up in britney's house i mean have you seen anything more her voice is like so high pitched yeah that's when she's talking yeah when she talks like a baby well she never got to grow up she literally has been at like a 13 year old i know since it's wild also what is shocking to me is she has so much money why is she wearing like the worst dresses doesn't care anymore no and i feel like her fashion sense is just still in the early 2000s yeah but she's like always in like a just a forever 21 bandage

dress and you're like really i love her no i love her okay that's all i'm saying i wasted an hour of my life i've gone through so many worse k-holes me too oh okay i mean really bad i can't even admit it yeah same okay here i'm gonna go okay well i received a tweet a couple weeks ago this is my bad week it says please can becca stop burping on the podcast i really love the lady gang podcast and it would be such a shame if i had to stop listening because of becca's burping and then she adds in a gif of marcia clark from the oj show aka uh sarah paulson and it says i am begging you from my soul listen it's nice they care that much but i'm drinking la croix yeah it's like as becca's drinking a la croix right now i get gassy mustering up on a new belch i understand

when people don't want to hear chewing but a burp don't burp shame us i actually burped on set uh of the last movie that i did and ryan my co-star got so grossed out and i'm like you know what yourself go yourself ryan but like i was shocked at how people feel about burping it is gross it's not gross i don't it's just air coming out through your esophagus if you don't burn that what it is if you don't burp it's just gonna keep building up in your stomach and then you're gonna fart all which is actually smelly true i'd much rather a burp than a fart do you guys know one of the things my nutritionist asked me when i talked to her is what do your farts smell like that's like always one of her first questions rotten eggs it depends on the case for me i know if they smell

bad it's like it means bad stuff but all farts smell bad your nutritionist is full of it she's full of farts and doesn't have a smell she's probably like you know what that means 10 supplements from me yeah let's clean out that health of your gut like that'll be five hundred dollars please you're welcome for your smelly farts my good week also came in the gift of instagram or some sort of social media whatever outlet someone wrote i don't know if you've ever seen this but it's kelty's video of her going home on the bachelor and i love her so much but i've never giggled harder lady gang forever hoping you girls get a season two um well let me tell you something i had never seen you never seen it oh it's iconic let's play a little bit okay okay oh

shit i need to see it you know what i really honestly wasn't surprised i had like the worst one-on-one time with brad and um i said something this week that really offended him and of course you did just never really got better so i really wasn't surprised i didn't really expect much more of a conversation because tonight's the first time i ever had a conversation with him you know he was never really pulling me aside he never really like took an interest in talking to me so i was always talking at him but he was never really talking back oh my god i think that it's really hard for me because i'm a dancer so i'm in the entertainment business and so talking with Roberta and Allie, it's really

difficult to sort of explain what life is like for some of those in this world already, and how we can be really lonely also. Holy shit! That's amazing, right?

Can you believe I wasn't a bachelorette? This is bullshit. You would have been an amazing bachelorette. She would have been incredible. Incredible. But I just like how not much has changed. I was talking at him I offended him

and she's already bragging about being in the entertainment industry meanwhile you're like back up dancing for Pitbull at the time you're like I know what it's like to be famous I didn't say famous no because Roberto

that's not famously that's not at all what happened let me just tell you what happened Roberto and Allie were like you're here for the wrong reasons and I was like no I'm not yes i am and i was offended you're the only person who tried to get famous from the bachelor and didn't i know it's such bullshit does it piss you off that like everybody after you got super famous and like never had to work again it's a bummer it's why listen your voice is so different it is

I think I sound like a little bit of a Valley girl, but that was me acting. It was, I cried like really hard at that. You didn't even put the worst part, but I was so lonely at that time. Oh, here we go. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Wait, my turn.

It really came out. Jack. Okay. So my good week is one of our girls posted on our Facebook group and she was talking about her cousin that was in like a shitty financial situation. She was asking people how that she could like make a quick buck. and somebody suggested that she start selling foot pictures oh yeah this is great foot pictures on twitter and she did and she made like a ton of money and then she gave everybody because

everybody's like wait a second i have pretty feet and i like money like how can i do this so she gave a how-to oh and this is if anybody wants to sell foot pics to like make an extra buck one create email two join insta and twitter three follow hashtags and people that show interest in feet pictures for craigslist search and she said if you don't want to do it anonymous if you don't want to do it anonymously post selling feet pics on insta story trust me y'all's friends list are riddled with feet lovers wait i want to know how much you can make doing this i think you can make like hundreds of dollars per pic i i mean i hope so i would hope i'm thinking in the thousands oh per pic you just send that pic to a bunch of people then you can make that it's a beautiful

picture 10 times i think people one picture oh speaking of jack what no we need oh my toe ring okay by the way i took a picture close-up of my toe ring to send to you to show zach and then i like i can't send a picture this close here's the backstory people my whole my whole relationship with zach he freaks out if he sees someone with a toe ring yeah he judges honestly that is that is the one thing he judges harsher than anything yeah is the toe ring yeah he will lose all credibility yeah if you are wearing it you're like i invented earth but i'm wearing a toe ring he's like nope nope got it so jack posted a photo on instagram recently of her new toe ring and i was like please please please send me a close-up of this pic so i can send it to jack and then i took

one and i was like there are you wearing it right now yeah in my sleeper okay i love it what's your bad week all right my bad week is i was at the korean spa recently and at the korean spa you were naked and you see all the other naked women's and i was in the spa and there was this girl next to me she had a bunch of tattoos and i was like you know just observing them observing her peruse and she was facing like away from me shit lady gang tattoo no she had a few back tattoos one of the back tattoos was a raven i was like oh dark like whatever then i really look at it the raven has a bloody tampon coming out of it no i swear to god out of its vagina like while it's flying across her back with just a bloody tampon halfway out of it i was

shocked no thank you yeah on that note murder billy's here murder bloody murder now back to the lady gang our guest today is someone we can officially call jack van axe work husband that's when she decides she actually wants to work he's an investigative journalist and producer who focuses on unsolved crimes and has written for the new york times new york post and Rolling Stone. During the day, he oversees all digital operations at Crimewatch Daily. That's false. How old

is that? Where'd you guys pull that? She isn't at me. Just keep going. Do you want there anymore? No, not really. Crimewatch Daily is not even... That's like four years old. Oh, but I thought it was great. Okay. He does... He began at Crimewatch

Daily. Well, I didn't begin, I guess. He one time worked at Crimewatch daily and he obviously doesn't ever sleep because you can also find him creepily co-hosting two podcasts including the first degree with jack vanek and the murder squad where he loves to discuss all things serial killers cults and conspiracy theories he also has a new book coming called chase darkness with me by billy jensen please welcome to the show former crime watch Daily Employee, Billy Jensen. Thank you very much.

Okay, well, guess who else that's ever hated your bio? You're the only one. Who's smarter than me? Oh, my God. You know what? I'll take it. Let's clear it up. I will take it as I can get it.

And I'm a member of the Lady Gang on the Facebook page. He is. He's one of the only men that are Lady Gang Facebook. I have a question for you. Before this book comes out, you have to update your Wikipedia page. That was on my Wikipedia page? Yeah. I don't even think I have a Wikipedia page.

Well, you do, because I found this information somewhere. It's on your website, Billy. It's literally on your website. I've been really busy. It's on your website. That's my fault then. But I will say this, though. I don't do conspiracy theories.

That's not my thing. Billy, but crime is conspiracy. No, it's not. No, it's different. No, it's different. Okay, cool. Well, that's probably on your website as well. I solve murders with social media.

He doesn't talk about whether or not we landed on the moon. I joined the first degree just to get on this podcast. You did? That's the entire thing I've done. We've done how many episodes now? 50? 51. 51 episodes.

You guys are pretty popular. I went through 51 episodes, and I'm finally here. So this is it. The long con. You did it. It was the long con. He is a member of our Facebook group, and he is very active on it. He's given people advice.

I have given people advice. Great advice. Not nipple hair advice or anything like that. Have you always been interested in crime? This seems dark. Yes. He's dark. My first memory of speaking was this.

My dad came home, and I was five years old, in 1977, New York, which was a crazy time. You had punk. You had disco. You had Star Wars just came out. You had the blackout. You had the 77 Yankees. It was crazy. He comes home, and there was also a guy killing people named the 44-caliber killer, also known as Son of Sam.

And he came home, and he showed me the newspaper, and he said, look, they got him. And it was a picture of him, and it said, we have him over the top. And I remember my first words I ever remember speaking. I mean, when I was five years old, I hope I spoke before that, was in the vernacular of the day, he looks like a turkey. And that was it. And now I didn't start from there. It wasn't like, okay, now let's go solve the Zodiac killer case. That was not, you know, I went and did some other things.

I wanted to be a, you know, an athlete and I wanted to be a musician and everything like that. But the crime kept pulling me in and pulling me in. And then eventually I started writing about crime. The crime kept pulling me in? It's so dark. It's a dark thing to say. I'm, like, watching you, and I'm, like, I'm feeling sad for you. The crime kept pulling me in.

Yeah. Jesus, Billy. And then I just made a decision to only do unsolved crimes. That's why I had to do. Have you ever solved a crime? Yeah. How many? Ten.

No. I've solved ten murders. No. Yeah. He's legit. Is that true? I'm legit. Yeah.

Read the subhead. What's the subhead? How one true crime writer started solving mysteries. I'll read that. Murders. It's right there. Wait. How'd you get the.

murders kelty this is something you should know about kelty she's never ever ever ever not skimmed a sentence anything you literally just that's not even a sentence it's a fragment well because i'd already moved on to what is this bullshit karen kilogrero gareth from my favorite murder wrote the foreword you didn't ask the lady gang to write the foreword they have a murder so just jack that's true but it's his it would be weird they're also the biggest murder podcast it's not yeah and you want to see do you want to see jack's shout out jack was looking for the shout out yeah so when does this book come out this book comes out august 13th so his audio it'll be out by the time this comes out right kind of around that time yeah yes okay can you say the

correct title again so people know by it started solving murders chase darkness with me how one true crime writer started solving murder so my friend you know i was writing crime stories with No endings. That's what happens when you write on self-crime stories. They have no endings. And it doesn't matter how great of a writer you are, it's kind of dissatisfying to read a story with no ending. My friend was writing a book about the Golden State Killer. Her name is Michelle McNamara.

And she passed away while she was writing it. I helped finish that. Did she get murdered? No, she did not get murdered. Who's wife? It's Pat Oswald. Oh, yeah. Who I think is on this lot.

Yeah. Because you guys have AP Bio over here. And so what happened was I helped finish the book with her researcher and with Patton, but it just really definitely affected me. It was like I felt like this guy won. You know, she spent all the time on it. We were good friends, and she spent all the time on it. I was like, you know, one day, one night, I was just so bummed about a week after she died, and I was looking at this video of this guy getting attacked in Chicago. So I'm looking at this video, and it's really clear, and they still haven't caught him for four months.

Was it Jesse Smollett? It wasn't Jesse Smollett, no. God, Becca. Dark. It's dark. It's dark. Sorry. But that one, yeah, like that.

Billy's like, how dare you make a joke? We don't laugh in crime. He's like, the crime's kept calling me. The crime's kept calling me. We laugh at crime, but it's called gallows humor, and it's not fun. Yeah, but I was looking at this picture and I was just like, there's a reason why they haven't found this guy because nobody watches TV anymore and nobody reads the newspaper and everything. And then I thought, wait a minute, I can find this guy. So I just went and started it and I found him and it started this journey into finding him.

How did you find him? So I started a – I was going to do targeted social media posts and I had a good video of him. But the video was up from above, right? And he's this big bully of a guy just attacking this one guy and he punches him in the face. He chases him. He punches him in the face. The guy falls down. Two guys come over from across the street and rob him.

Then the guy yells at everybody to get away from him because it's like 3 o'clock on a big – 3 a.m. on a busy street in Chicago. Everybody gets away from him, and then, unfortunately, a cab drives straight over him and kills him. So, you know, he created both situations. He created them leaving because he terrorized them and said, I'm going to beat the hell out of everybody here, whatever. So I had that video, and I put it out to a bunch of different places, and I was begging for reshares and things. I got a – somebody reshared it. Somebody sent me a picture and said, does this help? And it was a front-facing shot of the guy.

I was like, oh, my God. And I started writing him back. I said, please start following me so I can DM you. This was on Twitter because I know the kids don't use Twitter. I love Twitter. Colty does. The darkness calls me. You're not a kid.

The crime calls me to Twitter. It's millennials only. I hate it. I am a millennial. You're a baby boomer. Yeah, 82. That's not a millennial. Yes, it is.

82. Yeah. It's the last year for millennial. The oldest millennial? The oldest millennial. I heard the oldest millennial is 34 right now. That's not true. What comes after millennials?

Sorry, Billy. The crime is calling you. Gen Y. My kids are Gen Y. No, I mean before the millennials. Gen X. Oh. That's me.

Okay, so you got this front-facing photo. So I got the front-facing photo, and I'm begging him, like, tell me something, tell me something. And he doesn't. I was like, I wanted to find out, were you there? Like, yeah, whatever. He sends me a video and he says it's, I didn't take it. A friend of mine took it and he put it in our, in our Snapchat thing. So another thing for the kids, the Snapchat.

So, uh, which will be gone in two years when, when Instagram completely figures out how to do filters. So they, um, I, I see this, this picture and it starts with Marcus, who was this bartender, who was the man who was killed on the ground. So it was the last image of him ever taken. and I'm looking at it and then it swings back up and then the puncher is walking right towards me and I said holy shit this guy took a video and I now had a front-facing picture of him and I said you know what Cook County which is Chicago they actually put the um all of their which I don't

believe in doing but they put all the mug shots up online and this guy had a very distinctive widow's peak like a Dracula type of thing and I was like you know what I'm just going to go through so i started going through all of them took about a day i had three guys that looked really good uh one of them was too one of them was too old one of them was too young one of them might have been too tall i couldn't really tell how tall this guy is so i go to chicago with hit the picture i walk around first guy you know walking around that neighborhood go to a valet see this guy no go to a parking guy no then this uh looks like a homeless gentleman walks up to me and i said can i ask you a question i pull it out do you know who this guy is he's like yeah

We call him Big Dummy. His real name is Marcus. That was it. The guy's name is Marcus Moore. And we got him. And then it was me begging the police to arrest him, which was a whole other thing, and tracking this guy's movements and finding him on Facebook and seeing that he skipped town. He's saying that he's in New York, but I know he's in Minnesota because he's in a relationship with a girl from Minnesota because he puts in, like, I'm in a relationship. His brother's from Minnesota.

And he took a picture of himself. It wasn't even a selfie. He had a picture of himself, and then behind him there was a work truck, and I looked at the logo of the work truck and did searches for logos of work trucks, and it was a Minneapolis work truck. So I'm like begging the police, get a warrant for this guy. And finally, five months later, they got the marshals involved, and they got him, and then they brought him back to Chicago.

I have questions. I have so many questions. Number one, this guy who had the video all along, what the fuck was he doing just sitting on it? I don't know. Number two, if you're a criminal, why are you using social media at all? Yeah. You know what?

It's pretty crazy. It's an excellent point. Because once I found him, yeah, and I did a background check on him. And, yeah, he had a big rap sheet. And he had been arrested for things around that neighborhood. But, yeah. I wonder if he even knew that the guy died. Because it was two minutes.

He had walked away. He must have known. Are you afraid that any of these people are going to come back when they get out? Time's going to call us out. Well, when you were doing Golden State Killer stuff, weren't you, a little bit? Yeah, but that guy was old, though. Yeah. You know?

Oh. No, you know what? Yeah, it's always in the back of my mind, but one cop once told me once, you don't be afraid of the bullet with your name on it. You'd be afraid of the thousand bullets without your name on it, you know, because you can be killed by a lot of them. Oh, damn, that's dark. Okay.

Oh, my God, they put the names on the bullet in people's blinders. Okay, Billy, next question. When you're searching around the dark areas of Chicago with mugshots looking for Marcus and you hand over the picture in your Mickey Mouse watch, what do people think? Wait, this is something that we have to talk about, about Billy. Billy, there's two sides to Billy Jensen. Billy loves crime and Mickey Mouse. They're actually perfect together.

Crime and Mickey, it's like there's dark true crime Billy, and then there's Disney, McDonald's, happy male, like you have to be, because if you were only dark, like I'm already terrified of you and we've only been, this is our second meeting and we've been sitting in timbits and I can feel your darkness seeping into my soul and I'm going to have to sage myself. Meanwhile, the first time that we met, we were in a room with a guy playing the piano and I didn't realize until the next day that was the guy that played Andrew Kananen. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for telling me, Jack. I would have enjoyed myself a little bit more by realizing that that was the fricking guy. You think we throw a bad party?

I understand. Anyway, so I need you to have Disney in your life, to lighten it up. Because it's a dark life existence you have. And I'm wearing the Mickey Mouse watch because I am going to Disneyland this weekend. So I'm just kind of like, I'm in Disney mode right now. I'm getting ready. It's my last stop. You're getting pumped up.

Pumped up. Seriously, though, if you see my library, which is really an office, which is really a spare room, but it's got bookshelves on either side. one is is all disney and star wars and happy meals and all that kind of thing and the other is just murder and mayhem okay what are your kids how old are your kids my kids are 19 and 21 and uh what am i kid yeah were you a teen mom i was a teen mom yeah you don't remember me he was on the show and um no my kids are just you know my son has not read the book yet my My daughter has. They couldn't be any more different than each other.

You know, at my apartment in L.A., I have all my investigations up, and I have pictures of people like Marcus Gaines. You're like Claire Danes in what's that? Homeland? Sort of, but I don't have the strings. Everybody's always looking for the strings between the two of them. Yeah, do you have the strings? Well, because, yeah, it just depends on what kind of crime.

Yeah. Alexis has the strings. She does? Yeah. Well, hers can do that. Alexis is your friend. Alexis is our other partner. Now, why on earth would you get Jack to help you solve mysteries?

Well, we're not solving. No, no, no. That's a different one. No one here is solving mysteries. Yeah. Like, no one cares who took the candlestick from the dining room. You've got to stop using mysteries. Mysteries is like a fiction book.

Okay. I understand. I want to tell you two things. It's like the clue. Bill, Billy, I want to tell you two things. First of all, I have recently been so disappointed by a crime. Which one? I invested 10 hours into the CBC podcast, Someone Knows Something.

And it is about this little boy who went missing in the lakes in Ontario. And they bring out the cadaver dogs. Oh, I didn't like that podcast. They're trying to figure out where he is. He went missing, whatever. And in the end, it's just, we don't know. We don't know. 10 hours.

What? I hate that. I mean, listen, now you know what, this was, that was my life for so long. And then that was all, I mean, just think about, but just think about the victim's families. You know, obviously they're, they're, they're, they're hating life a lot more than you are. And then, but then they opened it up again. Like if, I'm sorry, Billy, but if you come to my house and you're like, hi, something happened in your past and it's horrible and I'm going to uncover it for a podcast. I hope to God you figure it out.

You want some resolution. Don't fucking come to me after six more months of pulling up my life and being like, eh, we didn't find anything. You have to try. And I think that, you know, when Yoda says do or not do, there is no try, it's like, you know what, fuck that. You just try. And you have to try no matter how hard it is. And you might get, you know, I've failed so many more times than I've succeeded when doing this stuff. But when the Finding Richard Simmons podcast came out, and he was like, I'm going to find Richard Simmons, I'm sorry.

I expected at the end you would find Richard. I loved that one. I loved that one, too. But there was no ending. I know the ending. What's the ending? My heart. He got sick of being in the public.

Yeah. And he just ran away. He just doesn't want to be there anymore. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. But no one said that. No one's going to say that, possibly.

No one's going to say that. but you have to just try. I mean, doing 10 hours on something and then, you know, but remember, Serial, which is what kicked this whole podcast thing off with, I was listening because I knew the case and I was just like, this thing is getting big and bigger and bigger.

It's in the zeitgeist. It's being parodied on SNL. And I'm like, they're not going to have an ending. And they ended it with, this is the ending with it, was just like, is your guilty or not guilty? I don't know. Does he deserve a trial?

New trial? Yes. And that was it. And a lot of people were like, huh. But most people were like, okay, you know, Let's keep moving forward. But that felt – and then they started doing the other one, and it was disappointing. Well, the other – yeah.

Is he still in – that guy's still in jail? The Bogarto one? Well, Adnan? Yeah. Adnan's still in jail. I have a question. Why is Adnan not free? Because he hasn't gone to a new trial yet.

Is he guilty? I don't know. What do you think, Billy? Yeah, what do you think? No one knows. What do you think, Billy, as a true crime writer solving murders? I think he definitely, absolutely, more than anyone else that I've seen recently needs a new trial. Absolutely.

Who's your favorite serial killer? I don't have a favorite serial killer. They're all awful. Well, like favorite as in like the most fascinating to you. The most fascinating to me? The most fascinating to me is probably Bundy, and here's why. When you look at serial killers, they often, and when it's an active case and then you finally find them and you see, oh, this is what we've been chasing. And they look like schmucks and they look like derps and whatever you want to call them, whatever the kids these days.

BTK, you know, Joseph D'Angelo, the Golden State Killer, all these, you know, Joel Rifkin, they all look crummy. You see Bundy and Bundy looks, is a handsome man. I'm not going to say he's hot, but he's handsome. I have problems with that. I'll tell you that about that in a second. So he's handsome. I'd love to hear that. He's handsome, but he's also educated.

He had choices. He could have gotten, you know, most every woman that he wanted. He was that evil, though. And it almost seems like, listen, you should never try, you know, there's always a path more than killing somebody. But this guy really had the world on a platter. But he was so evil that he couldn't stop doing this thing. And then he escapes, and then he does it again. Yeah.

Like, he could have been gone. And then they arrest him, and they're like, we don't quite know who this guy is because he parted his hair different. He has a Fu Manchu mustache. That was weird. It was very strange. Insane. Now, with Zac Efron, here's my issues with that. They do this movie.

They don't show what he does. In journalism, and yes, it's scripted, but it's still journalism. That was my issue. It's still journalism. And the main tenet of journalism is show, don't tell. And they are basically just have him. And any time you do a movie about a serial killer, and if the serial killer would have loved it, which I think he would have. He would have loved that movie.

Also, Zac Efron probably thought, this is going to be my time. I'm going to get into this character. He has a six-pack. He's ripped. Nobody was ripped in the 1970s. No? No. Look at all of the heroes of the day, like the big action stars of the day.

They were not all ripped. Look at Joe Namath, all the athletes. They all had a little bit of body fat on them and stuff like that. He takes his shirt off because they had to do that. They had to do that scene. And then they show that. I think it glorified it. I didn't like that.

Let's show him, you know, cutting off a woman's head and raping it. Not because I want to see it, but because that's how bad this motherfucker was. No, they made him a very likable character and then that's it. You didn't see him being a monster. And what they were trying to say was, well, this was the lie that he was telling the girlfriend. It's like, no, don't do that. You know, don't tell that story. Don't make that into that thing.

It's like a love story. It was weird. It was gross. I didn't like it. But Joe Berlinger has done great work. If not for Joe Berlinger's work, the West Memphis Three kids would have been, you know, two of them would have been dead, you know. So it's just it was a bad, bad decision. All right.

Before our game, I have one final murder question. If we wanted to kill our husbands, what do you think is the best way? All right. So I'm going to. A slow poisoning. Slow poisoning, right? I had a friend that got slow poisoned. Here's the interesting thing about this.

I know Stassi has been on the show, right? Yeah. I went on Stassi's new show, and she asked the same exact question. Yeah. So what the hell is going on with all of you people? We want to kill our husbands. No, I was just wondering, like, if you, well, you've investigated all the murders. Like, if you want to kill someone, like, what is the most successfully not getting caught?

How do you get away with murder in real life? Yeah, just a lot of times with insulin. It kills people with insulin. It's hard to track. Really? Yeah, don't do that, though. Wait, I'm not going to give you this advice. No, I'm not going to give you anything.

Why don't you do this? This is what I told Stassi. I said, listen, you want somebody. Do you really want this to be, okay, he's gone, and then I can do my thing? Or do you want it to be a big deal, which would rise your career up, get you a lot more followers, get you a lot more attention, get you into the KK realm? Yes. All right. And then, so here's what you do.

This is what Roxy Hart did. Roxy Hart. Roxy. Please stop. Do you know the Roxy Hart murders? I do not know the Roxy Hart murders. It's fictional. It's a musical Chicago.

Was this a? It's a mystery. Oh, okay. It's a mystery. No, I was feeling a little rockiness coming out there. They both reached for the gun. They both reached for the gun. So what you would do is I would take probably from, you know, kill him,

but then just get a bunch of Becca's hair and stuff and leave it on him. And then it's like, well, what was going on there? In the lady gang, there's jealousy. Yeah, the lady gang's jealousy. But then wouldn't it land to DNA? She was jealous of me? No, no, no. It would look like you killed him.

Or it would look like you had an affair, which is her motive to kill him. Could be, but you know what? We're talking about it now, and we would talk about it then. You'd get a lot more followers, but you'd be in jail. She might do it. I think it's worth it for Kelty. Kelty's like, how many followers? Millions.

All right. We have a game. This game today is called Killer or Cuddler. These are red flags that we should be concerned about or versus is. Wait. Can I ask one more question? Because I anticipate this is going to be stupid. One more question.

This was Jack's idea. This was Jack's idea. I'm kidding. This was Jack's idea. I have a question. Can we just be serious? Because I know you're going to be stupid for the next five minutes. Yeah.

but yes okay so when you're considering having children there's a part of anyone who's normal i think that's like what if i give birth to a sociopath psycho killer are killers born killers or are is it a combination is it nature versus like what is it nature or nurture honestly i think i think it's a little bit of both i think there is there there are certain things that that are if you're have addictive personality if you're the son of an alcoholic you're you know you have You're more apt to becoming an alcoholic yourself. But there's a lot of nurture there. Really?

But sometimes parents. So it is the parents' fault. And bumps on the head. But sometimes bumps on the head, yes. What do you mean? Well, I mean, a lot of people. Listen, I'm 6'4". I hit my head all the time on stuff.

So does my husband. And if that is a thing and I have all my life hit my head on it, then I haven't gone off and started killing people. Yeah, but isn't it if you have, like, head trauma as a, like, a young child? Potential, yeah. So they're saying that that— Well, there's just a lot of correlation to murderers and, like, head trauma. Yeah. I mean, sort of.

It's just it's not something— When I was working on the Johnny Lewis story, the guy from Sons of Anarchy who killed his landlady and then her cat and then himself, I remember talking to a brain injury expert, and he was just like, I've been—you know, five years ago, I was yelling at people, we have to pay attention to this, and now I'm backing off because every time somebody's loved one went and killed somebody, that it's they're just like trying to pull out a brain injury thing because nobody wants to nobody wants to believe it right uh with johnny lewis it very well could have been the case because he also had a lot of symptoms too like he was turning off the lights and doing all this stuff that made it

seem like something something got rattled in his brain what's the common denominator do you find is it abuse of parents is it sexual abuse is it like with the nurture thing yeah oh yeah i mean abuse is going to be the abuse and sexual abuse absolutely yeah it's going to be it's going to be that great so i'm gonna not do that to my kids okay cool good idea just worry you know sociopaths are scary yes like ted bundy that to me is confusing what went wrong in his life yeah no and it doesn't he was born evil and his childhood his childhood was up um and how was it what was it his his mom okay so he he was raised thinking that his sister no he was raised thinking that his mom was really his sister so that's happened to like four people yeah it's a lot

i mean that's not that big of a deal well and he had like a bunch of abuse as a child there was that was like a big thing that he kept going back to was like the whole like mother thing that's weird but i don't know all right back to the game sorry killer or cuddler you're gonna vote do you think this is a real red flag or do you think this is just a douchebag are you ready everyone number one lacks empathy killer killer i mean well not always a killer i mean they're not always going to be a killer or an actor. Pee's the bed. Pee's the bed.

It's part of the triad. Pee's the bed is part of the triad. What's a triad? It's the triad of serial killers. They all pee the bed? There's the triad. Me and Paul Halls talk about this all the time. The triad which is peeing the bed,

arson. This is all as a little kid. Torturing animals. Those are the three kind of... The torturing animals thing. Yeah. Okay. Killer or cover. My dad spray-painted a dog when he was young, and I still question it. Spray-painted? With, like, spray-paint?

Like, actual spray-paint? Why? Was he doing a design? Oh, come on. He's not a murderer. Billy! Was he tagging or something? Was he in a gang? Maybe he was a gang. Maybe it's the Jewish gang in Miami. Obviously. That's where Hyman Roth was from. Like zebra stripes on a white dog?

I'm going to have to ask him to clarify. Yes. wear socks to bed that's total serial killer serial killer that's that's a serial killer i had a very fun fact about ted bundy actually that i talked about on our podcast that he was obsessed with socks he had socks for pretty much like every day of the year i would collect a guy like that that loved socks yeah it's sick i wonder if i have four different types of oh no socks in my i have fuzzy wuzzy socks i have slipper socks i have it's fine to have a variety of socks okay i'm just Making sure. All right.

Starts fires for fun. Wait, do you? Yes. Wait a second. Try it. Try it. Do you wear socks to bed? Yeah.

Sometimes. Yeah. Do you? No. Oh, okay. I do. It's creepy. It's so comforting.

Yeah. You're the one that can't do a lot of things when you're cold. Right. Yeah. He didn't want to say it. Okay. Confesses their love to you only after one week of dating. Yes.

we need you to vote killer or cuddler killer and i remember my dad telling this my my sister got a job at roy rogers you guys know what roy rogers was it was like a fast food place and she was like the hostess at roy rogers which is weird of itself why did you have a hostess and she went out with a guy isn't it she went out with a guy she probably doesn't remember this at all she went out with a guy and the guy on the first date said he loved her and my dad i remember my dad telling me it's just like yeah you don't do that yeah no yeah that happened to me and then i dated him for year and a half so it's pretty tight last one before i ask the lady gang has a burner phone could just be a cheater just a douchebag right yeah i mean i have a burner phone just because

of investigations but oh yeah so you can call people yeah so i can text people and things oh yeah i think that's there's a part in the book there when a woman went missing and we had an idea about who she was with and i had to i had i had the phone number and her mother's freaking out because her sister had gone missing a year and a half earlier, and then they found her skull, and she had been killed. So now her other daughter's missing, and she's freaking out. I was like, can you help me? Can you help me?

I was like, yes. I started a campaign. I did all this. And I'm having a guy, and I'm thinking, well, who is this guy? What would this guy do? Maybe he's a drug dealer, or maybe he's a guy who's going to want to text from a girl. So I just texted him like, hey, or hey, you, you know? I didn't do hey, you.

Winky face. I didn't do hey, you, because that would have been- Don't give away all your tricks right now. But it was like, hey. Oh, it's in the book. It's like, hey. And then I was just like, hey, again. And I was like, piquing his interest, you know, because if I would have just called

and said, I'm looking for Mariah, he would have hung up. And then I got him again. I finally got him to write back to me. And now he's wondering who the hell I am. So then I call him up and I say, hey, listen, you know, everybody's looking for Mariah. Where is she? Oh, she's just right here. I was just like, listen, there's a cop.

There's a cop down here. Now that you told me where she is, please just go see the cop and then call her mom for the cop. And then they did. And she was alive? Yeah, she was alive. What was she doing? She was with some dude and doing that stuff.

I don't even know if it was meth. All right. Well, when we come back. But that's why I have a burner phone. Billy's going to chase darkness in your own lives. For Ask the Lady Gang with Billy Jensen. You're listening to The Lady Gang. Ready?

You have a very soothing voice It was for that part But that's not her real voice Do you have any room on your podcast? Yeah, I'm part of it You want to talk to me again? Jack's out You never answer the question of why Jack is in the podcast

Yeah, perfect She doesn't like working hard She doesn't like what? She does not like working hard And I imagine that's way harder than this It's way harder, but we have a Kelty in our podcast We have a Kelty named Alexis And Alexis really does all the work.

Well, Alexis makes, what do you do? Like stand in with your hands on your head. I get the people to listen to the podcast. Don't say that's your only skill. You're an enthusiast. I am. That's what I was. A true crime enthusiast.

She's a true crime enthusiast. And also a lot of times when, when you, when you're living this and Alexis does this for her day job too. And I do this for my day job. A lot of times. At Crime Watch Daily. At Crime Watch Daily. You need the dumb ass.

Well, the thing is, they'll start going on tangents about all these things, and I'm like, wait. And I listen to a lot of true crime, and so if I have a question about something, then the listener probably has a question about that as well. I don't trust people who do crime. What do you mean? I listened to the first episode, and then I couldn't listen anymore. I don't like murder. I don't even like you being a guest. It's too dark for me.

When you went into the Ted Bundy thing, I was like, it's too dark. That was it. It's too dark. I can actually see Kelly turning on. I know. It's so dark. I just don't even open my world to that kind of darkness. What's the darkest thing that you do?

Your whole life is dark. No, my life is beautiful. I've never seen a scary movie. Really? Never. I've never seen every – what is it, Nightmare on Elmsworth? Nightmare on Elmsworth is exactly what it is. Oh, my God, Kelsey.

I've never seen a scary movie. What are the statistics of getting – of a home invasion of a stranger? Small. I mean, yeah, they're pretty small. Of a stranger, yeah. It does happen. Yeah, of course it does. But I believe in –

I mean, always lock your doors. Always, you know, get a doorbell. Because I had a home invasion. You did? Were you there? I watched them on my ring camera. They didn't invade your home. They didn't invade, but they had a baseball bat.

They're coming. And what did you say? Did you yell at them? No, they didn't actually try. They threw pumpkins. Maybe they just wanted to play a game of baseball. Kelty also had random pumpkins left around her house. They were tagging my house using squashes.

Really? Squashes? They were just miniature pumpkins. They're rolling f***ing mini pumpkins down. We're going to get this one. Yes. Have you heard of that before? It's like a tagging thing?

I've never heard that. Pumpkin killer. That's some weird pumpkin gang. That's for the next. Okay, can we get us, Lady Gang? Billy needs some happy thoughts. He really does. I need some happy thoughts.

Let's talk about problems of real kind. I don't want to answer stupid questions. I want murder. I want to talk murder. Let's just tie a murder into this somehow. Okay, tie a murder into it, Billy. I'm sure some stupid girl is asking about her boyfriend. He's like, you know who you're the most likely suspect?

Your boyfriend. Yeah, well, it's true. He might kill you. Okay. Well, Billy also is very good at advice, by the way. Like, he's a very good, we've had good girl chats. You've given me good life advice. I have.

So he is. Billy needs to stay in his lane right now and tell mysteries. Mysteries? But I like murders. I said it on purpose. I know. It's true. Kelty's like, wait a second.

I will read your book. Kelty, it's called A Callback. Okay. It's called A Callback. I'll read that in comedy. And full circle. Oh. Okay.

Ready? i thought you might like call back like you got the job no i even understood i'm an idiot our listeners are dying right now they're like this is the worst episode of lady gang i've been living with my boyfriend for about eight months it's been wonderful seeing him every day and being and being able to spend way more time together but we also live with his two childhood friends we decided to do this so i can pay off student loans and we can save to buy a place they're nice guys but they're all in their 30s and they never clean like ever i'm a neat freak and i need my space to be organized and clean but i also don't want to get stuck being the 25 year old

house mom to these grown-ass dudes why does her 30 year old boyfriend have two roommates my boyfriend and i are planning to be here at least another year and it works really well for us financially any suggestions on how to cope with these messy guys murder all right so a murder campaign for one of those democrat uh candidates that is actually going to do loan forgiveness that's the best thing that you can do oh yeah or get a or get a uh this is exciting you know you can't say you know you can work another job potentially to do it but that's the problem with that's going on in america is that we're sending kids off to college they're coming back they got forty thousand dollars in debt and they can't do anything they got to live with these losers

and this weird three's company s thing that she's got going on that's weird i think only murderers have adult roommates at 30 but you know they usually often you know they might live with their mom you mean you hear you hear a lot about that or they still live at home they still live at their mom yeah billy what's your advice it's my advice well i said that i i think it's you got to have a financial plan what's the what's the escape route from that yes i agree also i think you raise the rent for those other two f***ers and get a cleaning lady also i don't know i'd almost rather downgrade and live in a

studio with my boyfriend than live with a bunch of random trash. There's got to be other options. Yeah, exactly. There's something. And does she have to be in that city? Where does she say she's from? Doesn't say. Good luck. Probably murdered them. Cleaning lady's a good

idea. Because it's like it works for you to have these other people living with you and paying you rent and it pays your rent. I think she moved in with them. Well, it's also a cleaning lady's just a band-aid though you know she's using the dirtiness as another thing where they just want some space and she's right it's like me and the lady gang billy yeah i understand that and listen a cleaning lady is going to come once a week she's picking up after them every day

yeah the cleaning lady is not going to do it men are disgusting honestly men are gross men are garbage okay next question comes from getting old and not feeling accomplished i'm turning 24 Oh, my God. By the way, he's not old. 25 this summer. Skip. Skip. You're a problem.

No, this is it. Do you know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of Love Island when it's just like, yeah, I'm 22 and I'm never going to find love. It's like, come on, people. Oh, my God. Wait another 10 years before you even start dating. Find herpes first.

Yes. Jesus. Have sex with at least 30 guys. This is your problem. You think you're old at 24. Yeah. Like, that's it. That's the problem.

I remember when I was 24 and I was lying and said I was 21 because I was shamed for being 24. God, what an idiot. God, I embrace that 24-year-old. 24 is a great age. Okay, should I read the question? Yes. Yeah, go ahead.

Oh, my God, Billy, don't have an opinion like that. It's your first time. I agree with Billy. It's so stupid. Well, let's just say. Enjoy being 24. Becca's exactly right. Just cut that off right then.

I'm afraid I'm going to do a little. Boom, there's that. Yeah, that is the biggest problem. You're young AF. Yeah, whether it's dating or whatever. What's her problem? I don't know. What if she is something really serious?

She's like, I have a week to live. right you guys assholes okay it's not that dark i just skimmed to make sure okay i started college late due to me stepping up in a serious supporting my family family matter that occurred after i graduated high school to still help my family i took on a full-time job in accounting and started to go to school part-time in 2014 this is why you feel old however this week i found out that while yes i have all my classes completed to graduate in the spring of 2020 i don't have enough credits to do so since i only do part-time i now won't graduate until spring 2022 when i'm 27 or 28 is it really worth it to do another three years of school i'm so sick of it and i just want

to be done already it sucks to look at all my friends crushing it in the real world please help me feel better about this and give me strength to well it depends what you need to do you're not going to get a job interview with our college interview or whatever it's called without a college yeah a degree wow it really is like that isn't it it's like that you're not gonna get an interview with on a college degree? No, you... You won't even get, like, a pass. Well, if you want to be on

Entertainment Tonight, you will. Yeah. It depends what you're going to do. If you're going to be in show business, if you want to be on Glee or you want to be whatever I do, you don't need any kind of education. You know?

If you want to be... Training as a thespian. Yeah. If you want to be Billy and chase murderers, you probably don't need an education either, although I'm sure you have one.

I chase mysteries. But any... Okay. But anyway, it depends what you want to do, but if you want to go out in the real world, like your friends are crushing it

the real world finish school three years finish the school um i know it sucks but you never want that that roadblock in front of you and that could be a roadblock if you don't finish well especially yeah kick yourself and especially if you're in accounting or something like that you know so also like if you're putting in all this effort to go to school and you're not gonna like suck yourself dry financially and you hopefully have a plan then i mean you got to and i think i we owe her an apology yeah because she does i'm sorry she feels old i owe her apology billy and i do too yes i don't owe you an apology i never prejudged she's had to do things that are very adult like yeah she'd have to step it up so i'm very sorry but you are not old and you have a long

life ahead of you and three years is just a blip on the radar and just get her done it really is When you turn 40, three years is basically like three weeks. It's true. Your life just goes so fast. I know. Oh, God. I went to college in a dark person. He's such a dark person.

Hello, Dr. Smile, friend. Also, I went to college for seven years, and I'm still not done. Yeah. Really? Well, Billy was inspirational for like 30 seconds. He was like, go get that job, honey. And then he's like, life is short. Life is short.

And it's the ending. It's going before your eyes. There's nothing but doom. Also, by the way, at 27, sadly, most people don't have their shit figured out at all to begin with, so I would not feel that you're behind anything where you are. And you have real-life work experience, too. Yeah, exactly. And goals.

Bottom line is, if you're a hard worker and you keep at it, you can do a lot of stuff. Do anything. Yeah. We believe in you getting old and not feeling accomplished. That's how she listed herself. Oh, my God. It's so sad. Last question.

Okay. Last question is from Hermione. Doubt it. Hermione Granger. Yeah. It's actually, it's the Hermione Crane. It's her. Imagine if, oh, that'd be so great.

It's the. In Chasing Mysteries. Hermione chases the mystery. Let's track down this Hermione. Let's track her down on her burner phone. Okay, my boyfriend and I have always been on the same page and haven't needed to have a bunch of talks for our relationship to progress. But now that we've been together for almost, I think a year, does it say? I find myself wondering about our next steps.

We've bought a house together and things have been going great. he brought up he wants to be married by 2020 or early 2021 but wants to do things right originally i thought this was asking my dad but i found out last weekend it means finishing the cohab agreement for context this family is very well off so i get it but we need a prenup anyway so why does this one matter i'm worried about things running on forever and not being romantic as once it comes prenups are never romantic do i hint to how long it takes you know what else is it marriage tell him that i'm worried about him never proposing i need help okay okay if you cannot have the hard conversations about your prenup you're not gonna be able to have the hard conversations

about using too much toilet paper jack or having a yeast infection having a hard time with the prenup conversation she's just confused about like why this one thing is holding up his like what's his excuse yeah but he gave you the year like he has it in his mind that this he wants to get married by 2020 we're like almost there yeah six months unless he's been saying this to you for six years like next year next year next year yeah so but if you were harmony you wouldn't be waiting around for no man no you'd be going out you'd be going yourself you go find voldemort kill him kill me right now i'm just saying yeah no i think you need to relax i think a little bit yeah i mean Hey, just celebrate that you're marrying a guy who needs a prenup.

Yeah, exactly. Mazel tov. Mazel tov. Girl, we need investors. We need investors. Hey, on that note, invest in Chase Darkness With Me, Billy Jensen's brand-new book, How One True Crime Writer Started Solving Mysteries.

And you can follow Billy at Billy Jensen. It's so easy. It's so easy to do. It's so easy. You can do it right now. Even I can do it. Even Jack can do it. And you can check out his wonderful, fabulous podcast with our Jack Vanek, The First Degree.

And you can also check out his other OK podcast, The Murder Squad. Billy, we loved having you here. I loved being here. I can't wait to sage my life after this. Same. Stay light, baby. Yes. Get out of the darkness.

Are you going to sage me? I would like to be saged. OK, we will see you next month. Thanks for listening. and make sure to rate and review this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We have new episodes of Lady Gang every Tuesday and Thursday.

Follow us on social media at TheLadyGang. Follow us personally at Kelty, most importantly, at Becca, and at Jack Bannock. And we will see you next Tuesday.