LadyGang - Kail Lowry: Twin Chaos, Rage Texting & Teen Mom Fame

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

Kail Lowry, the Teen Mom OG, podcast mogul, and mom of SEVEN sits down with Becca Tobin and Joey Gonzalez to talk about motherhood chaos, co-parenting with multiple exes, surviving twins, raising a gay teenager, therapy, rage texting, reality TV regrets, and why Joey might need to have another baby. Kail gets brutally honest about parenting, relationships, trauma, and the one piece of advice every parent needs to hear.Thank you for supporting our sponsors!BabyGang is presented by Better Help. Sign up and get 10% off at https://BetterHelp.com/BABYGANGSkylight Frames: Go to https://MySkylight.com/BABYGANG for $30 off your 15-inch Calendar.HERS: Ready to reach your goals? Visit https://forhers.com/babygang to get personalized, affordable care that gets you.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello, hello. Welcome to the Baby Gang. I am your host, Becca Tobin, and thank you so much to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp. Wow, am I excited for you to hear this episode. Kale Lowry is somebody that I have long admired. She is really such a funny, hilarious, that means the same thing. So smart, insightful. You may know her from Teen Mom, but since then she has done a shit ton of stuff, built an empire, all the things. Well, without further ado, here is the lovely Kale Lowry. Today's guest is a woman who has literally grown up in front of our eyes. She is a New York Times bestselling author, a podcasting mogul with a literal empire, and a mother

of seven whose proof that rising to the occasion has nothing to do with the year on your birth certificate. We are talking to the woman who turned a teen mom beginning into a masterclass in branding and a guidebook for juggling it all. This woman is a force of nature, and I know we will all be walking away from this conversation with some new tips, tricks, and most importantly, perspectives on parenting from the pro herself. Please welcome to the baby gang, Kale Lowry. Hello. Hi, everyone. Thank you for having me. This is a long time in the making. I feel like I've heard your name 8 million times.

I've seen clips of you and your gorgeous children a million times, and we've never actually met in person. Well, I think when I recorded with Lady Gang, you were away, so you weren't on that one. And I'm like, I haven't talked to any of the ladies from Lady Gang or Baby Gang in like four or five years. Yeah, it's been a while. So it's kind of nice. we're like we've like we're cockroaches in podcasting because we have stuck around forever well I think we started at the infancy of podcasting so we're like oh geez and honestly

you guys kind of paved the way like I would when I started podcasting I was looking to see like what you guys were doing and I'm like okay well if that works for them like I how can I figure that out and how do I take what they're doing and like apply it to like my own situation you know Yeah. Well, you were really smart. So I, so obviously we have Lady Gang and it's myself and Kelty and Jack, it's three girls. And then I started Baby Gang. I've only, I'm only a couple episodes in, but then I interviewed my best friend, Joey Gonzalez, who is here with us. And I was like, I walked away from that interview and I thought I need a co-host. Like I can't, I cannot do this alone. You're so smart to bring on different co-hosts throughout your,

so you have three different co-hosts and three different podcasts. So I do an interview style podcast, which is just me. That's Barely Famous. And I just interview all kinds of people, all walks of life. And then I have Karma and Chaos, which is with one of my best friends. We've been best friends for over a decade, but we had like a falling out for four or five years. And so when we came back together, we did the whole podcast. And then I have Coffee Combos, which is with Lindsay Chrisley. And that's the one where I started it. And we started that one in 2017. So that one's like our first baby. You're a beast with seven children.

Joey, do you have kids? I do. I have an eight and a 10-year-old. OK, those are good ages. I have a 12-year-old, so sort of in there. And then I have an eight-year-old as well. So we're right there with you. I hear 8 to 12 are like the golden years.

I want to just push pause. It's so nice. I'm not a huge fan of the first year. Like I maybe will get hate for that. But the first year is not fun for me because when they start like sitting up and stuff, it's like you either have to hold them or like prop them up. But you can't go too far. But you can't really get stuff done.

So that first year is rough. But anything after that, I love different parts of each year. I would agree. I hate babies. And I am very vocal about it on here. Becca and I were never baby people. Not baby people. We really tried.

But here's the thing that I got. My sister saw my experience. She has kids much older than mine. And I just have a four-year-old son. And he started crawling so early. And my sister came over one day and she goes, oh, my gosh, no wonder you're so tired. You didn't get the potted plant phase where they're just sitting there and playing and dawdling and you don't have to make sure they're not killing themselves.

And so this next time around, I really hope I get a potted plant for a while. Yeah. Well, I definitely have had potted plant phases, but my second son was walking before. He was walking at like nine or ten months, and I was like, this is a lot, you know? And boys. Do you see the difference between boys and girls? Well, so I have six boys, one girl, and my girl is a twin with a boy, so she didn't come without a boy. And so the, we're just now entering the pretend makeup and the girl, like really girly things.

And so I didn't notice a difference. I'll be honest until last week. So when that, when we entered the makeup phase, there's no difference because they're all getting into shit. They're all, am I allowed to cuss on here? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, they're all getting, you're actually forced to.

Yeah. Oh, perfect. That's right up my alley, you know? Um, and so, yeah, someone asked me that on social media yesterday. they asked me like what the main difference is. And there really hasn't been one yet. So just the makeup right now. How old are the twins? They're two. Holy shit. They're two year old. Also, this is another theory that I have. I think people who go from having singletons to then twins is the most earth shattering, rocking. Like if you start with twins,

you don't know any different. Yes. I literally, because so my cousin who's a twin had twins herself. And so she had a singleton and then twins. And that's sort of what the conversation was. And I'll be honest, I never thought I was going to have, well, I didn't think I was gonna have more kids, let alone twins. When you have them first, you don't know any different, but I had five. And my youngest at the time was three months when I got pregnant with twins. So they're Irish triplets. So I made that up. Rio, they're 11 months apart. So I have still have right now three toddlers in diapers. And so we just call them the triplets at this point because they're only 11 months apart. God bless. How are you still so pretty? We're doing our best.

Okay. Well, so my first question I really wanted to ask you, because now that I'm a mom, I have, you know, we all have our theories on motherhood and parenting and all that stuff. I used to think, you know, teen mom, I would never have been a good mother. I would have sucked so badly. Firmly disagree. I believe that whatever parent, type of parent you're going to be and the level of commitment you're going to have is no matter what age you're going to be, it's person to person. Obviously the circumstances of the parenting changes and financial stuff, but I have friends in my life who had their first at 38 and their parenting, like what I would imagine a 16 year old be parenting like, and then you see 16 year olds parenting like fucking rock stars.

So did you find that with your experience, you've always had the same level of commitment from the outside? It is what that seems to be. But I'm curious, like what your opinion is on that. And nobody has ever asked me that. But now that you said it out loud, I feel like that is that is really true. I did go through a phase, probably when I got divorced. And I think I got divorced in 2016. I went through like a phase where at that point, it was 5050 custody. And so I kind of like, really, really did my own thing on the weeks that I didn't have my kids. And so that was challenging for me. I was also finishing my bachelor's degree at that time. So I was kind of like, I was committed to my kids when I had them. But the weeks that I did not have my kids, you might not, I don't know where I was. You know what I mean? Like I was going out, I was traveling, I was spending a lot of money. Like there was, so I kind of feel like I made up for like my lost years as a teen mom when

I was getting divorced at like 25. So yeah, but I think my level of commitment to parenting has truly been the same since high school. Like genuinely, like that is so weird to think about now that you've said that out loud. Well, the thing that made me think of it, and Joey will actually attest to this as well as being a dog parent before ever being a human parent. I had my first dog as an adult at 19. And I treated that dog really, I treated that dog better than I may even be treating my son at the moment. But like, it's pretty comparable. Because I don't know, I just there's the nurturing side of you

that's kind of always in there. And, and Joey, didn't you get your first dog long before your children came along? I did, but I actually made the mistake of being a registered foster with the city of LA. So I got a phone call one day and they had a box of two day old dogs. And I don't know if y'all have ever had a two day old dog, but you have to basically bottle feed it, keep it a certain temperature, rub its genitalia for it to pee and poop. You are up all night. There were nights i was sobbing over the box they're gonna die it was very traumatic and the only reason i knew i was ready to have kids and then having kids was a breeze yeah what i first of all i've seen like people who are obsessed with their dogs and they're like oh like my dogs are my children and

i get i would get so irritated because i'm like you guys have no idea but if we're talking about two-day-old dogs that you have to keep alive literally every single hour on the hour that is far more work than a child but i do always say that puppies are harder than kids because at least kids shit in a diaper and piss in a diaper when you're when you're puppy training that is a nightmare feces everywhere it's disgusting i'm like we're also not wired to take care of canines so the other there were eight of them and all the other six died and my two were the only two that lived because they're so fragile my heart i know it's rough rough times did they they lived they mine lived yeah oh good i'm glad until like old i scarred for life but

yeah my one just died last year not comparing puppies to kids but it's kind of the same it isn't but we might get canceled after this but yeah i'm just warning you it's happened before it's like i again i'm a cockroach good luck everyone this is my next question so sometimes like who you're raising a child with can inform how much you enjoy the process of parenting so I want to know how each of your relationships has kind of affected the experience of it all for you I will say that my you know my oldest son's dad was that we were in high school so I don't want to give him too much you know I don't want to give him a bad grade for that right like we were in high school we we it was rough for a long time and

then there were several years where we got along really really well but now that my oldest is 16 like looking back it was like he didn't really contribute a whole lot which was frustrating um but as long as he's there for my son like we don't have to communicate and I feel like we're on a good we don't really communicate kind of situation but when you go into parenthood whether you're single or married or you choose to have a child by yourself whatever that looks like truly who you parent with will make or break the entire experience and having a supportive partner it's already hard enough with the most supportive partner in the world it is so hard so when you have a partner or don't have a partner at all and you kind of go into it blindly you're like okay

this can truly like when you're in the trenches of parenthood and motherhood and you don't have help and you thought you were going to raise a child with someone it kind of puts you into like a like a fight or flight situation. So you don't get to enjoy the soft parts of motherhood that you should have been able to enjoy. So like, you know, Christmases or birthdays are a lot harder when it's just you and you didn't anticipate it being that way. Or, you know, the nights that you are up all night and then you have to go to work in the morning, you know, you don't get to enjoy the cuddles and things like that because you're probably overstimulated and that's not fair. But then I have had a situation where I went into it knowing that it was just going to be me and it

was just me. And so I, I kind of had a different, um, perspective, I guess, but I also had, I'm speaking from privilege here. Like I had money at that, you know, I have money so I could handle it where I think about mothers who went into it knowing that they would probably be by themselves and they don't have money to finance their lifestyle with this child. And so they, they don't get to be soft with their kids during the cuddly moments. Do you, I have a quick follow-up to that because I think it's so interesting. When you have different men that you're co-parenting with, do you find, because I know with my husband, he has a lot of blind spots. So I have to kind of pivot, whether it's not naturally for me to cover those, if you know what I mean. So do you find

yourself having to parent differently depending on your child based on your partner's opportunities? Yes, 1000%. Like more strict with this one or more, you know? Yes. It's so frustrating because we parent so differently. But then also, you have other co-parents sometimes where you're taking on the mental load. And I tell one of them all the time, I'm not your secretary. I'm not your secretary. We have access to the same information. We have access to the same resources. You need to get it together. So yeah, wholeheartedly, yes. Have you seen the Nate Bregazzi joke about where his daughter's school called to ask him what number school bus she was on. And he goes, why are you calling me? Why are you not calling her

mother? You think that I know what number school bus she's on? We laugh about it, but that would be a deal breaker in a relationship for me. I can't get behind it. Because I have shared calendars with two of my kids' dads. So our schedule is on our iPhones and it's so helpful. And then the other ones, they just don't care. It's just kind of like, whatever. Yeah. It's interesting. Well, I mean, okay. So I feel like, and you've probably been privy to these conversations like all of us have. I've heard other people and a lot of my girlfriends will be like, no matter what my husband does, I am not leaving him because while these kids are young, I'm too afraid to be a single parent because of the workload. And I think a lot of women do stick around and men stick

around because they're so afraid of doing it alone. And I think you've had so much experience doing it kind of every single way. How do you feel about that sentiment? No, I think leave. You have to choose your heart. You want to stay in a relationship where you hate your partner and they're not taking on any of the mental load? Or do you want to choose your heart and be alone and get shit done and not have to parent an adult? I get a lot of shit. I left all four of my kids' dads. I left them. So if you let that sink in a little bit, it's like, okay, yeah, I've had a hand in it, right? But at the end of the day, I'm not going to stay with you when you're making my life and this parenthood even harder. I'm not doing that. It's not happening for me. Yeah, choose it.

Wow. Okay. So I'm sure you've been asked this a million times. If you were to go back and do it all again, would you have chosen to do the show Teen Mom? And if so, are there any major regrets you have from the experience? Or are there any moments you're so fucking proud of from the experience that they captured? I'll be honest with you. This answer will vary depending on the day you ask me. So it's so interesting because Teen Mom did give me a start, especially financially. I was able to pay for my bachelor's degree with Teen Mom money. And so that has always been something I've been really proud of. And there are certain things that I'm like, OK, if I could go back, if I knew what I know now, I would one, have a lawyer look over my contract before I

signed, which I never did. And then second to that, now that I know that if I never spoke out loud about something, they couldn't film about it, I would make the mistake of befriending my producer or talking about something and then they want to film it. And I'm like, wait, I don't want to film that. I was just telling you. But once they hear about it, you don't have a choice. And so I think that yes, I would go back. I would do some things differently just knowing what I know now. But I do also in the same breath think that anyone who participates in reality TV to this extent has a mental illness. I will stand on that. I will die on that hill. This is a mental illness because I will also go back to reality TV. If you asked me tomorrow, hey, Kale, would you do

this reality show? Yeah, I fucking would. Oh my God. Wow. I mean, I think I would do reality, but I also think I have a mental illness as well. Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, like it leveled me up and it got me to a really cool place. And so, but it also takes the right, like I feel like I developed a business mind over time. I wasn't born that way and I didn't start the show that way. It was like, I start,

I applied for the show out of pure desperation. Like it was just, I was already pregnant. Let me just see what happens. And did I think I was gonna get picked? No, but like you miss 100% of shots you don't take. so I'll just do it and see what happens. And then, you know, over time you, you learn, but some people don't have a business mind. They don't like kind of figure it out. Yeah. You definitely have figured it out. Um, and speaking of your oldest son,

we do share the same birthday, January 18th. So he must be incredible. Um, so I listened to the podcast that you recorded with your son who recently came out to you and it was very, very touching. And I knew you were going to handle it like a champ. I mean, I think everybody did, but there was a moment where you said, and I want to tattoo this on my forehead because it was kind of talking about like what, how to handle it or how some parents handle it. And you said, don't have kids if you aren't going to love them unconditionally, period. Like it was just such a no brainer. And it's the conversation sort of starts and ends there when it comes to your kids and them coming out to you. And like Joey, Joey came out, when did you come out to your parents?

uh i was 21 when i came out to my mom and i was like six or seven years later with my dad oh my gosh he was like the only one who didn't know for a long time sorry papa yeah it just took a little he's like a you know cuban machismo i was very worried but both of them reacted lovingly and were like my dad actually said to me i've seen brokeback mountain that's okay that's iconic that is so funny oh god how much merch for that we really do i've seen brook by mountain it's a beautiful love story um do you get asked all the time now advice for parents whose children are are coming out or have come out or even parents who i don't know how you felt but did you know that your son might

have been gay before coming out. Did you have any moments, like even with me and just regular parenting moments, I hear about my son who's like in getting bullied at school and like, I want to murder someone. Like I want to, he's four and I'm ready to throw down with a four year old. So like, what advice do you have for parents in this, in this process going through this experience? You know, my, the statement I made on that coming out episode where don't have kids if you won't love them unconditionally still stands I will die on that hill and I don't think that people fully understand what that means and what I'm saying when I say that is like you can I don't really care what your beliefs are like this is your child right so unconditional

love means unconditional like that means it doesn't matter if they're gay if they you know are you know conservative or liberal or whatever you love them regardless no matter who they are and I just I think that so many people are like yeah of course I love them unconditionally but but I don't want them to be gay or, but I don't want them to be this way or, but, and it's like, that's not what that is, you know? So I have a really hard time when parents come to me and they're like, oh, like it's just a phase. Like that was something that I've been struggling with. You know, someone in our circle kept saying like, it's just a phase. It's just a phase. And I'm like, no, I've literally known since he was a toddler. Like I knew when he was a toddler and

I knew when he asked for frozen toys at four years old for his birthday, I knew and I'm okay. Like I love that's my son, you know, and he's a better human today than I ever have been. He gets straight A's. He was invited to apply for National Honor Society. He's fluent in ASL. He's on high honor role. Like he's a way better human and he's gay and I'm not, you know? So like when you look at it that way, it's like they're, everybody's just human. Right. And so not a whole lot of parents have come to me and asked for advice, but if they did, I would tell them that too. Like, what do you need advice for? He's they're human boy or girl, like they're human. What do you, what do you need advice on? That's your child at the end of the day. And if you believe in them

and support them, your relationship can only get closer, not be more separated, I guess. I've been learning lately, and I've heard you talk about this as well, that it's also really important for them to experience adversity and challenge. And I have done that recently with, especially my daughter was having a really hard time and I tried to give her space and let her go through the challenge, the pain without rescuing her. And I was curious, for someone like you who had such a challenging upbringing, is that harder for you, do you think, to force yourself to let them have those experiences? Are you more apt to want to protect them? Yeah, I think I overcompensate a lot. But then I try to walk it back too, because

just like you said, I've talked about it pretty frequently. It's been really challenging because I had a really tumultuous upbringing. And so I feel like that's why I handle things the way I do sometimes. But my kids don't have that same, in some ways, like a challenging upbringing builds character and grit and resilience, right? But like, then I see my kids who don't have those same challenges. And then when they do, I'm like overcompensating and immediately want to save them from it but then it's like no they really should handle this specifically on their own so that they can build the same resilience and have the same because until you go through the the bs like you really don't know what to do and i feel like you can speak way more from experience once

you get through it but it's been so hard especially with elliot in high school too and my younger one is about to enter middle school so that's a really challenging time it's been hard and for you having a daughter who's older you said yours are uh she's 10 yeah she's 10 I don't know what I will do with my daughter like heartbreak once that starts coming around whether no matter what kind of relationship gay straight whatever like that is what I'm so scared of I'm so scared of specifically my daughter and heartbreak my boys I think I can help them get through um but my daughter I'm nervous about that well the girls I feel like feel things so much more deeply yeah not just in how they relate to boys but even girl on girl you know like when they fight it's

very painful and very mean and boys are just so superficial true like punch each other and it's over yeah yeah you know what's interesting is hearing you say that like me going anticipating having a daughter i actually have and this is because my like and i use trauma very lightly but my memories of being that age are actually my most negative feelings have to do with girlfriend, like friendships with girls. And so that's the thing I'm the most afraid of because those are the scars I think that I continued and still have. Whereas like the love and all that stuff, like it was the normal stuff. There was normal heartbreak. And I think it's funny to listen to that being your thing that you're taking in and the anxiety having a daughter. It's so attached

to what our own experiences were. And it's funny, because I'm here to say that there can actually be I don't think I was traumatized by a single romantic relationship. You know what, I think part of that to your point, when you said like, it's our own experience, I didn't have great parents or like parental figures to look up to for like a healthy relationship. So my focus was romantic relationships. And so I hope that between myself and you know my my kids dad and also my boyfriend like we can show them healthy relationships but also to encourage them to not focus on that you know what I mean like I don't want my kids I even tell them now like you don't need to worry about relationships right now like that's for

college that's for after college not saying that they can't have a relationship because my oldest son did have one but I don't want that to be the main focus where it was so much of mine like I just wanted to be loved so bad since I was a small child that that's like I'm almost like trying to prepare myself for that with my daughter when that very much may not be the case you know like she might be more focused on school and sports and like her friendships yeah so funny okay so you are very very open about doing all the work and doing all the therapy it's very clear that you have done that. And so I want to know for yourself, it might be hard to think of in the moment, so you don't have to, but what is like a specific behavior or like a reaction

that you had five years ago that you recently realized that you've completely outgrown? Ooh. Wow. That's a loaded question. I think really like lashing out if I don't like something, especially with my a lot of my relationships have been publicized or my kid's dad going on the internet and I would immediately respond immediately react publicly not just privately but like also on social media and I will say that the last five years I have really really toned it down and realized like we're just entertainment for these people like this is our real lives and our kids can read and our kids can get on socials now and so I will say that I think toning it down on social media in terms of like co-parenting and my relationships I try to

keep as much offline as I can. Even when my kids' dads have like gone online and like said things about me, I try to give it a little bit of space before I respond just so I can gather my thoughts and like get everything together if respond at all. Sometimes I won't even respond at all at this point because at the end of the day, like people are going to believe whatever. But last year when I publicly found out that I was cheated on, I realized right then that like, because my kids had seen it online before I did, there was nothing healthy going to come out of me publicly responding at any point in the near future after that. So like, I just didn't respond. And so I think power in the pause, like when something happens, give it a beat. And then if I decide

to react or respond to it, I can do that at a later time. That is my, I don't necessarily take things public. I've always been afraid to do that. I'm just because the few times that I, yeah, I know, but the few times I've done it, it's my theme of my life's like work is the rage and regret. Like that is just it. Like the reactivity. Joey's like, I know I've seen it. Yes. Rage and regret needs to be on merch as well. So put that on your list. You're right. See, you're a mogul. No, it's like I, this is, this is literally the theme. It's the thing that I will probably for the rest of my life be dealing with. And the times I've done it on social media or whatever, I have had like crippling anxiety. And I'm not somebody that even carries a lot of anxiety with

me. But I remember feeling like this feels so bad I could barf. Like it's just something, it spirals out of your control. And then, you know, so that I've been okay with. But just in life, and I think a lot of people deal with this too, it's like I'm very reactive. And so the power in the pause is such a good reminder because I'll be sitting there talking to somebody and I'll be like, Becca, don't say it. Becca, don't say it. Becca, don't say it. I'll be telling myself, no good is going to come from you saying this. Don't say it. And then it fucking comes out of my mouth. Like word vomit. Sometimes you just have to say it and be done. Or I will say in therapy, this was years ago, there was a time for like two years, I was going to therapy twice a

week because it was just, I needed it. And she said, um, you know, when you're rage texting or you're rage responding, um, put it in like a note or send it to a girlfriend instead of sending it to the intended person. Because on the other side of that, my lawyer was like, Kale, do not send anything or put something in writing on the internet that you will have to read on a witness stand. So that was the other side of it was like my, my lawyer and then my therapist. And they were Like he'll just send it to one of us, send it to a girlfriend, send it somewhere else other than the internet or your baby dad's. That's a great, I have actually done a little bit of that too, like drafts and emails and

like, you know, and they all stay there. That's the thing that's crazy. I have never once had one of those like word vomit, ragey text emails that I'm like, you know what? I'm going to come back to this in even an hour. And I've never gone back to it an hour later and been like, yeah, this is a great idea. Great idea to send this. there was one time where I did do like a whole draft and it took me several days and I kept

going back to it and I kept going back edit edit edit edit and then sent it to my girlfriend had her read it over and I did eventually send it but it was so much less emotionally charged and more just back based because just because you say something doesn't make it true right so like I was like once I like calmed down a little bit and I have like all my thoughts in like an order that wasn't super aggressive I did eventually send it but that one was again it was like okay take my emotions out of it only list facts, you know? So, but that was only one example in the last like seven years. So. I mean, Joey, I feel like you're much better. You're, well, I think also Joey's background and I don't, I don't know if I, I don't think I did this in the, uh, when I introduced

you to, but Joey is one of the, what's the stupid terminology you use so that you don't take all the credit of Barry's? What is it? Um, I, I helped bring Barry. Are you familiar with Barry's Bootcamp? I've heard of that. I've heard of it. I started in West Hollywood back in 1998. I was the global CEO and I took the concept from two to now a hundred studios. So that's what I spent most of my life doing. Oh, wait. Barry's Bootcamp, the workout. Yeah. Yeah. Of course I know what that is. I thought it was like something else that you were going to say that like, it was like a spinoff of that or something. I know exactly what that is. Yeah. So he has had so many years of, of, I've, I watched Joey handle stressful situations and emotionally charged situations.

And I think it was at the chicken or the egg. Cause I'm like, was Joey just born with the ability to sit back and let everything happen, let the dust settle and then be the most rational person in the room? Or was it that you had to lead hundreds and thousands of employees to then, because that's really where I struggle. I'm like, I'm no longer sending shitty texts to my husband, it's like, there's people I work with that I need to really like reel it in. So I think Joe, you have a very special ability. Oh, I appreciate that. I think it's being on the receiving end of so many messages like that, like the rage. When you receive something like that, I don't know if you all react the same way. I'm like, oh, this poor person should never have said

this. Do you know what I mean? It's just like not a power move at all. It just makes someone look bad. Oh, so like immediately you have a different perspective when they send it. Like it's almost then you're just like, I don't want to be that person. You're right. But by the way, this is, this is how I conduct myself professionally. And I'm very, it takes a lot to trigger me. And even when I do, I worked with an exec coach for years. So I kind of learned how to like keep it together. I noticed my heart rate start to race, like palms will sweat. And I'm like, oh, I can't speak right now. I need to be quiet and just end this call as quickly as possible. And then like breathe. but I can't really practice these things at home. I'm like the worst version of myself at home.

Wait, but this is so interesting. So when, if someone sends you like, we'll say emotionally charged text, like you're automatically thinking, okay, this person is obviously isn't in the right headspace. Triggered. Totally triggered. So you're not taking it personally. Not really. And I feel bad. I'm like, oh God, they're going to be like, why did I send that text or email? Wow. So you already like have, you already know not to take it personally. You already

have empathy for that person. I want to be like that. Me too. I have a friend and business partner who like when she wants something, she's very direct. She's very clear. And sometimes for me, I'm like, I'm taking it personally and I don't know how to take it sometimes. So that's actually really helpful for me to look at. No, I'm not talking about you, Rebecca. Don't get it twisted, Rebecca. Wait, this is shocking, but you know what? This actually did happen to me. I had this random girl come for me like it's the first time in many years that I've been any you remember the story I know what you're talking about and I get this text and it's crazy it's like a high school fight but because what she's coming at me for I am guilty of doing but okay she's coming at me

with a level 10 and what I did I think probably qualifies in like a level 3 range okay but my initial response was like I felt immediate shame for fucking up so I felt like this was a completely warranted text message that she sent me even though it was a fucking unhinged now in hindsight but then what's crazy is like we go through it you know the dust settles and she sends me this text being like I am so embarrassed that I sent you that text I'm very sorry it was so aggressive and I was thinking I didn't even think that I never even thought there was any blame on her and not that there's blame but now I see what you're saying if in the moment she had sent me that text and I was like, oh, this poor girl is really going to regret sending this text,

I would have had such a detachment from the whole situation. But instead, I'm fucking spiraling and letting that crazy text get to me. I'm still learning how to not take things personally, kind of like what you were saying, Joey. I'm still learning that part because I feel like everything is a personal attack. Yes, me too. And so therapy is – and I was telling my boyfriend not that long ago, if you have trauma for any amount of time. It's going to take that same amount of time in therapy plus some to get through that. And I have like 30 years of trauma. So now we're talking about 30 years of therapy plus some. And so like, we're still undoing things. Right. And so I don't know how to not

take things personally, but I'm going to try with that, that whole thing that you just said, Joey, I'm going to try to do that and basically be like, okay, the next text I get is like, obviously they didn't, they weren't in the right state of mind, obviously. Totally. They're hijacked completely and sending messages that if you had sent, you'd probably reread the next day and be like, why did I send that? Yeah. 1,000%. Not to say that emotion behind it isn't real, but it's their emotion. You can always read things like that and understand why this is more about them than you. Right. And I think I'm going to try my best to keep that perspective moving forward. i mean i i'm glad that i have joey's phone number because now i can get advice from him but kale i'm

gonna need some of your advice too moving forward the power and the pause like i think we can all really help each other out here joey do you have any other questions i know i could i could i could talk to you for three hours but but i know you have like a lot of things to do but joey i want to know what you want to ask deeply personal question personal for myself i'm scared um i have like and becca knows about this uh grappled with the idea of having another baby which is definitely not going to happen but i still think about all the time and what would you your advice be knowing i have an eight and ten year old would you be like that's insane don't bring another child in the world right now because it'll be upside down and so hard and just don't do it or

oh my god yeah what's your advice I think you're gonna hate my answer because one if you were to have them have another child I would wish twins on you because twins are the funnest best thing that ever happened I literally love having I would want twins yeah no it's the coolest freaking experience and anyone I love or that I like and get along with I'm like you need to have twins like that's just it's so fun it's the best thing I've ever done on accident and then my second the second part to that answer is i feel like you would not regret having a third but you might regret not having a third yeah and my life motto is always i'd rather live with the regret i'd rather live with is one of action like i will rather regret having done something than not

done something so let's hope john doesn't listen to this podcast no we're gonna ask I'll be divorced. Because John and Joey need twins. Yes. My brother and sister are twins. So I love twins. No, they're the coolest. And then you have you and your husband and then two kids.

And then twins would keep it an even number. So it would still be fine. So I'm going to vote to have another one and it be twins. Wow. But I'm also, you're also so young and I'm like 60 years old. No, you're not. First of all, you don't look a day past 30. So let's start there.

Oh boy. Okay. Well, I did recently hear someone say you'll never regret the kids that you had, but you will regret the kids you didn't have. Yeah. Yeah, 1,000%. And I know that seven sounds like pure chaos, but I love it so much. And so four is good, too. Yeah.

I do have a friend who has six kids, and I think that – I mean, obviously, there are challenges and, you know, whatever. For sure. But it's weirdly like this beautiful, like symbiotic, like environment where the kids are helping each other and there's less pressure in a strange way, like on the day-to-day with the parents. It's interesting. But then I look at my friends with three kids and I'm like, that's fucking chaos. It's weird.

They're fighting for their lives. They're fighting. And to your point really quick, I know that I'm getting kicked off the podcast, but it's fine. You can stay forever. We're fine. um what's interesting though is like i have seven but i don't ask my older kids to help me so like that's one thing that i'm not a huge fan of is because you if you did have future children

um like something that i hear all the time is like well do you do they help and i don't ask them for help and if they want to like play with the kids or i might ask them hey can you grab me a diaper but i'm not asking them to watch the kids i'm not asking them to make the meals i'm not asking them to take them places. They are my responsibility. I want to make sure that they keep the sibling bond, not like a parent to child bond between siblings. So that's another part of it that I'm like, I don't know. I'm just not a huge fan of siblings raising other siblings, unless obviously the circumstances are different. I don't have the circumstances that require that. And so I don't want that to ever be a thing in our family. Well, it's interesting because a lot of

the people that I meet as adults who do not want children, a lot of them say it's because they were older siblings of very young siblings of sisters or brothers, and that they feel like they were parenting from a young age. And that feels, I mean, listen, it's not sad to me when people don't want children, but it does feel sad to me that that experience is why they don't want to do it themselves. For sure. And that's another thing. I know the last time that I was, when I was on Lady Gang, it was like, no kids, like no kids. It was like a no, no kids zone. And I understand why people don't have kids and it does not upset me. I don't care what their reasoning is and i even tell people that are around me that don't have kids i'm like if you don't ever have

kids you're not really missing you don't you can't miss what you don't know right so i fully understand and i have seven but i also would never change having seven either i'm the opposite to both of you anytime i'm around your alcohol and people i've cornered everyone whether they're gay or straight you don't want kids why don't you like i literally it's a child pusher it's like a drug I do it all the time. See, you don't have the power of the pause there. And I can't stop. That's so fascinating.

It's terrible. It's such a bad quality. I'm like, it's so much harder than you think. If you don't want kids, it's fine. Go live your life. I get it. And then I'm like, meanwhile, I have seven kids. I don't regret them, but I'm like, don't have kids.

It's fine. Yes. So funny. You're so good at it, though. You were born to have children. And I thought it was so sweet. I do be fucking up, though. Of course.

Everyone. I think that's part of why you're so good at it. And there was, um, one of your podcasts I was listening to, or maybe it was on Instagram. I don't remember, but Elliot said, you said something about how are you doing? And he's like, well, I'm proud to be doing a lot better than you. Yeah. It's so funny. Cause it was a jab, but also like that must've made you so proud.

Cause he's doing better than you because of you. And you're just such a good mom. I love that they do. Even my, my two oldest, obviously my middles are a little too young, um, to like really know, but my two oldest are super self-starters. Like they really just get it going and do things themselves. They're just good humans. And I'm like, obviously I didn't do it all by myself, but they really are better than me. And I'm so thankful for that because we didn't need another Kale running around. That's our goal, right? We all want Kale and us. That's the goal.

Oh my God. Well, Kale, this was such a treat. I knew I was going to love you, but it's just been years in the making. Like I said, thank you so, so, so much. Please tell everyone where to find you. Like, I mean, I think you're around every corner we're looking, but just in case they aren't already following you. Yeah, I'm on all socials, Snapchat, Instagram, X, Facebook, everywhere as Kale Lowry. And then also my website, KaleLowry.com. And then I have the three podcasts, Karma and Chaos, Barely Famous, and Coffee Compos.

Thank you guys for having me. Thanks for being here. Yeah, of course. Thank you.