LadyGang - TESS SANCHEZ: Hollywood, Painful Favors & Buccal Face Massages

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

In this inspiring and hilarious episode, the LadyGang welcomes former Hollywood casting executive Tess Sanchez to talk about her debut book, "We’ve Decided to Go in a Different Direction", and dive into being a boss, reinventing yourself after losing a dream job, and embracing change. She opens up about lessons her father taught her, and the challenges of bouncing back after loss. Plus, Tess shares funny stories about life with her husband, Max Greenfield, who you know from New Girl and The Neighborhood proving he’s just as hilarious off-screen as he is on. And, of course, it wouldn’t be LadyGang without GWBW fun, where the ladies talk Buccal face massages, Firehouse Fridays, and the latest in paparazzi drama. We have deals for YOU!! OneSkin: Worried about aging skin? Try OneSkin with 15% off using code "Lady" at OneSkin.co  Old Navy: Shop Old Navy’s StudioSmooth collection in store or online at OldNavy.com  Progressive: Wanna save on car insurance? Visit Progressive.com to see how much you can save! Don't miss FX’s Dying for Sex! All episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Well, what is this? Welcome to the Lady Gang. That's amazing. Say that again. The Lady Gang. Things are about to change around here. Each week we catch up with Hollywood's hottest girl posse, Kelty Knight, Becca Tobin, and Jack Vanek. Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Lady Gang.

I'm Becca Tobin here with Jack Vanek and Kelty Knight. I'm very excited your friend is here. I know. Are you guys friends in real life? Yeah, so I met Tess, well... sorry i'm asking derek for extra spread for my large font i can't believe you even ever judged me for the clicker texting i know it's but i here's the problem i didn't notice that jack was an accidental clicker texter nails until you said something because it's a different vibration

yeah yeah and now i'm with her all the time and all i hear is but it's i'm just like i'm gonna kill you wow it's kind of like asmr though not in a good way in a very but asmr makes me feel weird it doesn't make me feel good i don't like asmr either jared loves it i'm like this is gross it's weird and the megan markle show they do a lot of asmr-esque stuff yeah where like the honey is dipping yeah which i don't mind in that as much but i don't know i feel weird i can do like visual asmr like yes blackheads popping nope not that not actually we met 100 we said yes but we meant no that's what it is late night well okay it's time for good week yes it is bad week oh no um oh you asked me a question about tess yeah so this is my good week um tess

will tell you but she this book was born out of her in one of the lowest points of her life she has been a very, very high level executive in TV for many, many years. I met her, um, for the first time when, when her husband, Max Greenfield was on new girl and I was on glee and they were both Fox shows. And then you kind of like do all these weird things together. And one was like a race for charity. I don't even know if she remembers that this is where we initially met. So we met then. And then we met years later again, um, at a friend's house, they were neighbors. And then we just kind of hit it off because she's, you're going to see as a very fun time. Anyways, long story short, she was let go from this job that she, it was kind of very reminiscent of when Kelty

was let go by ET. You'd been spending years and years and years and years of your life to get this dream job. And then you're there and you think it's going to be there forever. And then the rug gets pulled out from under you. She wrote this book. We went on a trip to Mexico right after this happened that she was fired let go fired feels so aggressive like she did something wrong she didn't um well they don't really fire you in entertainment it's like it's a contractual thing where they're like your contract is up we're not renewing you you can say that you're choosing to leave like it's all a big fat lie of and then you're like wait did I get fired or did I choose like it's all like and that's why the title title of her book is we've decided to go in a different

direction. Cause it's like, you're not fired. We've just like decided to fire you and hire someone else, but we're not calling it a fire. We're just going in a different direction with our, with our executive team. It's so fucked up. So anyways, we're in Mexico and she just kind of starts talking about how she wants to write a book. And you have a lot of friends in this business who say they want to write a book. And then you get very nervous because most people can't write. Most people who didn't go to school for writing can't write. So not that I was nervous. I know she's smart. She's funny. She's engaging and all that, but sometimes it doesn't translate into the page. I read this book cut to, I read this book in two days. It would have been one

day had I not been like schlepping around doing stupid errands. It is so good. It's better than I anticipated. She's such a wonderful writer that it's essay. It's in essays. So you really get these like snappy, fun stories. You get to know who exactly who she is. It's so cool. It's just so nice to see a friend nail it, you know, especially on the heels of really shitty years, you know? So that's my good week. My bad week is that I am so panicked. I married a Leo. Leos love their birthdays. Oh, this Leo's birthday is his 40th in July. Okay. And I will help. We'll paralyzed. Okay. I don't know what to do. I have no idea. Well, he loves trips. However, he also loves friends and he's so social, but he's also a control freak. So it would be so

crazy for me to plan a trip and him, I would it up the whole way. And then he just want to do it himself. And then it's just like, he sounds so much like me. It's, it's crazy. I'm like, I don't know what to do. I know what you should do. What isn't he? He's a big golfer, right? huge okay can you get him to like the really is doesn't hawaii have like a very exclusive golf thing where you and you can go for a sexy vacation for his 40th but also surprise him with like a day and a master class from like their onset pro at like one of the top golf places in the world the problem is is that he's gonna want to be with friends but then you also do a barbecue that's a barbecue for zach martin is for a 40th is not gonna cut it bummer okay bummer

does he like expect you to do something or would he rather like does he plan well no one expects anything she wants a birkin for hers she's gonna have to put out for his i don't want a birkin for mine i want to be left alone okay so i just don't know when you marry someone who's a birthday person and you're not a birthday person i can't intuitively know what he's gonna want because What he wants is actually in opposition with what I would ever want. You need to ask the lady gang. Ugh. That is tough.

They're going to DM you. You're going to turn your DMs on for this week. And they're going to give you ideas. And they're going to tell you what they did for their significant other that was great. And you're going to copy. That's hard. It's great. He's so hard.

We call him the prince because I think in a past life he was royalty. I swear to you. There are so many things where I'm like. That is so funny. The problem is that all your friends have kids. like i would be so mad you have a group of like 10 friends so like literally every month it's someone's birthday if i had to go around and be social and like go to mexico with you for this person like i would be so mad these people love traveling they do they love it okay they're all

like so rent a hotel and rent an airbnb in mexico you should rent where i was going to buy that house in mexico cabo pluma there's nothing around there though yeah it's so beautiful okay once again she said there's like literally not even like the bakery is like three miles away you have to walk to okay that's my dream i won't take up any more time but that's what i'm going through it's gonna be months of terror torture god okay i'll go next um you guys move over jersey mike's uh-oh there's a new sandwich shop in town subway firehouse no i did try subway recently i was really i was like you know i used to love subway i'm gonna give it another shot it was 30 for one sandwich meal by the way which is crazy what it was on a ride back from like uh phoenix to here

i don't thirty dollars for a foot long and two chips and two cookies was thirty dollars but their cookies their cookies are in a lot of contest so good so good the cookie was worth it alone but live your life anyways no firehouse fire have you ever had fire house will only do firehouse because he the prince only eats hot sandwiches and jersey mike's does not provide that they do their philly cheesesteaks are literally better than the ones in philly okay well he he likes firehouse because he knows it's always gonna be hot yeah no firehouse is so good you know i have mike's monday now we have firehouse fridays where we sit we get firehouse and we watch severance like my irving shirt what do you mean you watch severance what it's only

once a week i know on far fridays on firehouse fridays oh okay i thought you meant like on both days i was like pizza fridays pizza fridays we order dominoes cinestix and i watch drag race yeah that's exactly it but this is millennial millennial shit right here i know well i just Like, I love food and, like, thinking about food so much that it always has to be, like, a thing. So, yeah, Firehouse Fridays. Ritual. Ritual. Yeah.

It's so good. It's just different than Mike's. Like, I can't choose a favorite, but there is competition. But do you get the same thing on the sandwich that you get? Yes. You know, because you have a very specific sandwich order. Yes. So you do the same thing, and is it –

But it's hot, and it's different. Oh. And they have a different sauce that I have. They have a honey mustard. I love a honey mustard. It's firehouse. Whole Foods makes a 365 honey mustard that will knock your socks off. I love honey mustard.

She's a sconch territory, everyone. Sam, when you told us barbecue sauce, when you discovered barbecue sauce, that was like a full good week of yours. Yeah, you're right. You can allow us. You just had some of the dumbest congratulations on your honey mustard, everyone. Okay, sorry. My bad week is easy and short. Somebody fucking signed me up for Medicare calls on my number.

Not kidding. 20 a day. 20 a day. I block the number every time it comes through and every time like I have to answer the call sometimes because I'm like getting stuff delivered at my house like furniture like what do they say they just are asking about new medicare plans you need to say I'm dead what Zach does no a lot of them are like automated calls so Zach put himself on a on some sort of list that removes you from an auto dialer which makes it illegal for them to call you from an auto dialer can you ask him

what it is so now when he gets called he literally says to the person i need to speak to your supervisor you called me on an auto dialer and that's illegal and they panic and they never call back again oh my god amazing well mine don't call me they're literally from a different number every time and they're all 949 numbers which is weird because it's like my area i'll ask him what he does please i can't it's crazy because i used to like block all unknown callers but i need them for my deliveries all right i'm gonna take you back to the fun stuff ladies and gentlemen my good way i'm sure yeah right my good week is this is a i i told a hint of this story but i want to like really sorry can i just tell the lady again because i think people are gonna want to know okay

go to do not call.gov or call 1-888-382-1222 no from the phone you want to register it's the national do not call registry it's not a scam okay i'm doing this is a.gov don't do it right now we're podcasting and i think.gov addresses are real real i was gonna say are trustworthy but I think that may be not the statement of the moment. Yes. Anyway, sorry. Sorry for the sconces. Okay. So do you remember how I used to like, love to call the paparazzi on myself? Used to. No, I have, I never go to New York anymore. I don't have an LA paparazzi. If I went to New York. His name is Derek. Your LA paparazzi. It's you coming out of your house. So I, when I used to go to New York all the time, I could call the paparazzi on myself. But now that

I'm in LA like most of the time and never go to New York I don't have a paparazzi and I was at dinner um I spoke about this very briefly but I was at dinner at Cipriani in Beverly Hills because I'm trying to be social so I'm like going to stuff and I was with one of Chris's clients and you know like he's super famous but like I also went after work so I was like in my full e-getup like I was Kelty Knight like I was in full drag and man it just never gets easier to not be noticed by the paparazzi. Like I, I went, say that statement again. Well, it never gets easier to be like, there's been many times that I've gone with people to Craig's or other paparazzi hotspots. And I was like, Oh, they're gonna look and be like, Oh, she's also somebody like, they're

like, Oh, they recognize him or the star. And they're like, Oh, it's this person. And who else, what famous friends is he with? And then they're like, no famous friends, except I'm like, I'm right here it could really help me if you would also be excited to talk to me in the music industry yes then it wouldn't have made any sense for you to be with him why would they know he's looking for other they're looking for other music people it's they they would never in a million years place the host of e-news with this person and it's not like you're dating him and like holding his hand no for sure and how many people were coming out of the door like six exactly no I know but what was so funny about it is that I was like the paparazzi guy like took a few pictures of this

person can you not just say who it is you can let's robin robin thick yeah and he took the picture of robin coming out and it was like bright flashy and i was like a weird and then we're at we're waiting for our car and then the paparazzi was like hanging around i was like he's not gonna pose for you like he's not you've you've ruined not thirsty like i am he does not care and like he's his dad was like he's an epo baby he's like this has been his whole life he's walked out of restaurants and people have been taking pictures in beverly hills like so unaffected and then i'm standing there and I'm like oh he's not taking our picture anymore I guess he doesn't care and he's kind of trying to like I was like is he trying to get like an unblocked shock like shot

or like I don't know he was videoing and then someone tagged me in the video online you guys I realize why everyone in Hollywood is now covering their mouths while they talk you can read lips you can read what we're talking about what we're saying well we were talking about like we it was projects he was working on and things and we're like oh we'll see you I was talking about um you know he's getting married soon and so we're like talking about the wedding and i was like well like they would have been if he had if anyone cared which they may it could be like i could be the reason that people crash his wedding because i'm just blah blah blah like i don't even know how to be paparazzi'd yeah you don't know how to be famous either if you're being that

willy-nilly with wedding information a hundred percent everyone knows you guard that with your life because they're getting an exclusive and making cashola on that a hundred percent i think that's actually over. Oh, I think in general, unless you're huge, like maybe a lot of people exclusive. Yeah. I don't have money anymore. Anyway. Okay. Live your life. My that's my bad week. My good week is, is I got a buckle buckle face massage. I've never had it before. Buckle buckle. Um, there's a woman down the street here in Ventura. If you ever stay in town, you have to go to her. It's super expensive. It was like $300. And I was like, uh, but I guess this is a person putting their hands in my mouth. So it's like, I would like to be at the upper

echelon of like what this is. It was so amazing. They massage your face down your neck, everything. And then she puts the gloves on and she's pulling your cheek. She's pulling your nose. She's pulling like places. I didn't even know I was sore. My inner ear, my outer ear, the top of my ear. My note, like it was amazing. Now, did I look like a supermodel after or the next day? Not really. People are like, Oh, it's for relief. No, it's relief. But they also say it's for lymphatic drainage. And you know, if you get a lymphatic drainage, like before a big event, a wedding or whatever, sometimes it gets a little of the water puff retention. I thought, Oh, well, after this, I'm going to be snatched. I'm going to be like Linda Vagelista, like in the nineties,

you know, I was not, it did not change my face at all, but it felt so good. So I highly recommend if you're like because i just started having a mouth guard to sleep because i'm grinding so much if you're a grinder like me yeah i hated the sensation of having the gloved hands in my mouth it is terrible spit and then it's like exactly it's like on the outside of your face and it made me want to throw up yeah i am not i love the feel like it feels so good though i have like all my tensions in my jaw and i have such bad tmj so it felt so good but yeah the spit of it all is disgusting okay when we come back Tess is here now back to the lady gang as the former executive vice president of casting at a major network during her 20 years in the industry she

played a pivotal role in shaping the tv landscape bringing us stars and shows we still can't stop binge watching think 9-1-1 empire brooklyn 99 the mindy project but after years of discovering talent and making dreams come true, she's now stepping into a whole new chapter. This time, as an author, pun intended, her debut book, We've Decided to Go in a Different Direction, is a laugh out loud, from the heart, deep dive into family, career pivots, and those all-too-familiar rejection lines we've all heard. From wild stories to real talk about navigating career crossroads,

Tess is here to spill the tea, drop some wisdom, and inspire us all to embrace life's plot twists with grace and grit. So let's give a huge Lady Gang welcome to the brilliant, fearless, and utterly fabulous, Tess Sanchez. Hello. That was quite an introduction. Wow. Well, when you do all this book press, you should forward it on.

I know. I was going to say, can you come on the road with me? Exactly. Well, I just want to set the scene. Becca, why don't you set the scene of what we're wearing right now? Well, Kelty and I, the two dum-dums who are always matching, same haircut, same swag, we're wearing a Lady Gang sweatshirt, and we both laughed at each other when we jumped on to this Riverside recording. And then we welcome Tess, the beautiful Tess, who's the

most fashionable person I know into the, into the chat. And I'm expecting some couture, some, something she's in a lady gang swag. Cause she's a nice friend. You're a good friend. I really liked the sweatshirt and I was excited to be a part of the team here. My favorite thing about it is that Becca, I have glasses similar. I'm wearing a progressive now. of a lady of an age. And I have the similar Becca glasses, but I wore them. I wore my other glasses on purpose so we could be different. And then Tess wore the same glasses as me. So we're actually a little trio. Jacqueline is feeling under the weather today. So Tess is going to fill in, which is great because, um, Jack only reads books about dread and sadness and like scary things.

And so Becca and I like to read books about Hollywood feelings and, um, stories of rejection and that makes us feel less alone. And so you've given us like the greatest lesson in rejection, um, and turning that around with this book. So thank you for that, but let's get, let's get into it. Thank you for having me. I'm, I'm so delighted to be here. Um, first of all, go ahead. Go ahead. Just talk so much. I want to talk about Max saying hi to me this morning. Okay. Yeah. It was really funny. I'm married to Max Greenfield. Um, and he was like, Oh, Oh, I'm going to go take the kids to school because that's his job and he said to me um he gave me a hug and he goes tell kelty i said hi i was like oh okay i didn't realize that you and kelty were friends i know he's done

the show once maybe and um i was like oh i i will i will i just like i guess he's like following you now? I don't understand. You know, I find that so upsetting. I have shared, I have broken bread many times with Max. I have told him my deepest, darkest secrets in your kitchen. I've slept in your guest house. I've, you know, I've done TikToks with your daughter. I am so offended that Max didn't say, and Becca, how rude. I guess he just thinks of you as like a family member. he doesn't feel like he needs the extras and after that it's fine max is a hollywood star and he understands and you know what lay some respect on that kelty knight name he understands he understands the uh pecking order to butter his bread oh yeah he understands he knows what's

is the neighborhood where it's neighborhood still on right oh yeah that's right i can see you're a big fan. We're on season. So when I was on CBS for many years, I did a lot of promo for the neighborhood when it launched. So that's how I know Max a little bit, but now that I'm not on CBS anymore, I can't watch CBS. So that's how I don't know how many, if the season, if the show is still on, cause I'm a loyal bitch, but he understands, he understands that when he goes to do his next movie or writes his next book or whatever, he's going to need the press. So he's buttering the press bread. Well, also, it's interesting that you bring up CBS, Kelty, because as I was reading Tess's book, I was thinking, I can't wait for Kelty to read this because Kelty had one of her biggest breakup rejection moments of her life at the hands of CBS.

And many things that you voiced in this book were the same things Kelty was going through during her Hollywood beatdown. So I really think this book. It really, it was a moment when you told me that, like you said that you were dismissed from a job that you had for over 10 years. Yeah. Well, the book is so interesting because you were a casting, you were in casting, like the head of casting. And so you had the power to literally be like, okay, no, Becca Tobin is the person or this

person is the person they're going to get the job or, uh, and change their lives. and you changed so many people's lives, but like a lot of women in the world, um, who were maybe not allowed to admit it unless we like wear a girl boss, like pin, um, you were very high ranking in your job. You were a high, high level executive and you loved it. Like you were that powerful bitch and you like lived, eat, braved that. Can you discuss that? Because we're not, But we don't always talk about that part of it, like loving it. Well, yeah. And I think that I'm bringing it out of the shadows in that I had worked.

And the reason why I kind of go back to the beginning in the book is because I have worked over 20 years building this career. It came before Max. It came before my kids, meaning like I was already on that track when I met Max, when I went, you know, when we had children, when we got married, you know, the first love of my life was casting and this enormous, you know, sort of validation that I got from that job as I got better at it and as I worked my way up. I mean, it was, it was a constant and I felt a real sense of purpose in that job. And I, I think part of it was I gave a lot of people their first job

and you know the sense of purpose and watching people's lives change up you know in the front row was so exhilarating and I was so passionate about it and I loved it so much I was just so invested and I when you know when it went away over zoom in an instant yeah like that was like whiplash at the highest degree, because it had been a constant in my life for so long. And I just was, you know, blindsided. I love in this book that you are so honest and unapologetic about when that went away, and you became like, mom, mom, mom, mom, wife, and how you admitted that was not filling your cup. And I think that that's so rare that a woman will admit that she needs more than that to have a happy life. I don't know. I just thought that was very

cool because I think we get, we get shamed a lot for having goals and aspirations and prioritizing our own careers over sometimes even our families in moments that we can. Sure. I am not ashamed to admit that. And I think that in a really interesting way, they loved me back knowing that I was a badass boss. That's who Max fell in love with. And that's who my kids knew as me coming home and turning our kitchen into a dance party because I had been gone all day. And, and, and that's the prism in which they viewed me. And so, yeah, it was a definite readjustment of like, they were like, who are you? Because you're here all the time now. And I was like, I don't like this either. So I'll be honest. This is not a great look for me. You like me better when you're looking at the back of my head being like, bye. And so, yeah, there was definitely some very uncomfortable dynamics of, you know, especially with Max, where I was like, this is a power shift. Like I've always had a place to go, a team to talk about, you know, people in my life that fulfilled me, a work family that was so robust. And, you know, when I was following him around the house being like, well, what are you

going to do now? What's your day like? And well, what should I do? He was like, who are you? You know, I I've been working since I was 15 years old. I mean, not in casting, but like I have always had another life outside of every relationship and friendship and dynamic. And so, you know, when that was gone, it was like, I can't say it was my, it was definitely not my best look. You talk about, so you basically got, this is what Hollywood does. They like, um, you know, they were like the title of the book, we've decided to go in another direction or they're like, we're not renewing your contract, but you get to lie to everyone and tell them, tell them that you decided that you wanted to spend more time at home or focus on your other

projects. That was my great one. That's when I was like, Oh my God, my podcast is so big. I need to focus on my other projects. And everyone's like, but you've been doing both for like a decade. It seems like it didn't seem like that much work. Um, but, uh, you write in the book about how you, at the moment you kind of freaked out at the guy that fired you. And then you wrote like a really passionate letter or email to them. And then you regretted it. Can you talk, I want to talk through the, the levels of grief that go with it. Cause it's with a breakup, with a job breakup, I feel like it's the same. You think, yeah, this like rejection, like how you reacted, what you wish you would have done differently. Oh, so many things. So many things. It was a car

crash that there were lots of fatalities. I was the biggest one, you know? And, and it was singed into my brain, you know, that, that, you know, I want to say it could have been four hours or 30 minutes. I don't know the timeframe in which it all happened, but I think there, and I think probably similar to like a divorce or a death, you know, I had to go through all the stages of grief, which was denial. And then anger, sadness, delusion, all the things. And I was really mourning a part of my life that I knew was never going to be the same. And so in part of that process, I was writing manifestos of just sort of like, and another thing I want to tell you about how this went wrong. And I didn't send a lot of those. And I had a lot of people in my life

were like, hold on a minute, before you send, can I read that? And I want to say that that gave me the last word, but, but, you know, really it was, it wasn't for them. I guess it was for me, you know, and I, and I do think that, um, you have to go through, you know, all of those kind of embarrassing moments, um, and, you know, thinking about success and revenge and, you know, how do I get my oomph back, all those things. Um, and, and, and it's, it's just, it's a long road. You know, I feel like my road was too long. I kept saying like, God, I want to get over this. This is so pathetic. Yeah. But Tess, you were also grieving your father. And I think that in the book, you know, just as somebody who's been your friend all these years and who saw you go

through that with the job, you know, reading in the book, the series of events, and I won't spoil it, but your beloved father, who's your hero, and he's such a wonderful man. And the stories you tell are just so beautiful, but you had grief on top of grief on top of grief. And so you also have to give yourself a lot of grace for how you handled so many terrible things happening at once. But I also like that you didn't feel the need in the book to tie it all up in this beautiful, pretty bow you actually leaned into you know and it's been however long I'm still not over it it's been however long I'm still pissed and that is so nice because I think a lot of the time we skip over a lot of that in between muddiness to get to like the beautiful and now I'm a public I'm a

published author but it's so much more than that and so I for any like for anybody going through anything that's a hard or difficult or challenging or whatever we always give ourselves time limits And by this point, I've got to be quote over it. I really like that you didn't do that. And I imagine there's still moments and you still live in LA. Your husband is still an actor. You still have to run into a lot of the same people. And I'm sure there's still moments.

How's it going, Tess? What are you up to now? Where did you land? Yeah, I think there is something about, which made me very conscious of the thing that you say to people when you run into them is like, what are you working on now? Or if you're meeting somebody for the first time, what do you do? Yeah. And that was really hard for me because I was, you know, the, the pandemic lifted and we're out at dinner parties and we're doing, and we're walking into rooms and I, and you know, the first thing for the first time in my life, people were

like, what do you do? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I wanted to be like, oh my God, I'm love, you know, but I just felt so pathetic and embarrassed. You know, I think like a lot of people don't own the shame and the embarrassment. And I, I decided like, God, i'm just gonna like be like yeah i got fired you know and it was really embarrassing and um and if i didn't say it to somebody they can now read it in the book that like you know i i'm like owning that and owning the the you know the shame that i felt and then i'm also owning the shame about the shame you know the embarrassment about the embarrassment you know, it's just this thing, you know, it's a cycle. And I think, I think what hurts, um,

a lot when people, when we go through this, whether it is like in a relationship or a work situation is that I feel like at no fault of their own, because business is business. And I, I hate when people are like, it's my like work family. I'm like, my family would never treat me this badly. But, um, and if they did, they, I would live like not, I would unfriend them on Facebook, but I felt like, um, only in the present does success exist. And the 10 years that I was there and all the things that I accomplished were stolen from me because all of a sudden when people are like, well, what are you doing? Where you work? Oh, you're not on, oh, you're not on the show anymore. Oh, then all of a sudden I wasn't allowed to be

proud of the 10 years because somehow it was like not good enough for me to stay or for to keep me around. Or I wasn't, even though I know my right brain is like, this was a bottom line. There were lines about paychecks and budgets and who we can afford and all of these things. And people were like, who can we cut? Who's been here a long time? Who can we, you know, I knew that was some of the reason, but it made it almost like I couldn't, not only was I like, I don't have a job, but I also couldn't even be proud of myself for what I had created over those 10 years or for you those 20 years. Because all of a sudden there was like this dark cloud over it where it's like, oh, I worked so hard at this thing and it doesn't actually matter because I'm not there anymore.

Like it didn't work out. Did you feel that? In Hollywood, it's like your currency is only where you sit at that exact moment. And I feel like a few people reached out to me, which would happen a lot when I was in the job and they were like, oh, so-and-so wants to get into acting. Can you do a Zoom with them? Or can you go to coffee? And I remember feeling like, why? Why do they want to talk to me? I can't get them a job. I can't do anything for them. And I understand what you're saying, Kelty, because it's like even myself, I felt like I wasn't worthy of giving people advice, which I had done for so long and pep talks and all these things. And I was like, I don't matter because I can't literally send you, I mean, I could, but like, I don't have

the infrastructure right now to like really make things happen for you. And, you know, and that goes, you know, with like even relationships of like, you know, who sticks around and who doesn't. And, you know, I was pretty real. Like I knew who my real friends were and I knew who was there for the job. And there were not a lot of surprises there. So, um, I, I felt like, yeah, these are my people and they've been my people. And then, you know, I had this work family and, um, the people that were truly my friends are still my friends, regardless of the, you know, the position that I hold. You're listening to the Lady Gang. Um, I also think that the book is, I was not expecting it at all because you're,

you're like the least mushy person when it comes to your relationship. You're very, you and I are similar like that. We're never going to shout from the rooftops how amazing our husbands are. But I, I really love that this book is also a love story. It's so beautiful. And I cried my eyes out in literally just two chapters in Kelty too. And I, I feel like I do love hearing about Max, your friend, my friend, Max. I just want him to be happy, you know, he's so happy. Yeah. Like kind of speaking on friendships, but also just watching, listening or reading how

Max navigated you and, and your heartbreak in that moment was just like, wow, he's so much more than a funny guy. And I think that the world doesn't really understand that or, or see that. What do you call him? America's clown. What do you always call him? but he's, he's, he's so wise and a B-list TV actor or that, or keep them humble. You know what I mean? I just love you, but we're not celebrating anything. We're not celebrating.

Certainly not him, but I really loved watching. It was a lesson for, for any partner who is watching their partner the person they love's world crumble in a million pieces and he seemed to be so patient and it was really so beautiful the love story like and and I also don't want to spoil a lot but Max is sober and you had so much to do with that journey for him and so it was like you picking him up and putting him back together in the beginning of the marriage and then this was his opportunity to put you back together. And I just was like, I want to watch this movie of this love story. And it was just so unexpected and so beautiful. And also showing that to be a career woman, I know that you're a wonderful mother and a wonderful wife, but people like

to put us in boxes if you're really, well, yeah, some days. If you're so motivated and you're a boss, you're not the most wonderful mom and loving mom and affectionate spouse and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like you're such a whole person. And it just really, the book does a beautiful job of that too, because we can be all those things and we rarely get to celebrate that. Well, I think, you know, I was so excited, Becca, to have you read the book because you were front row for all of these things that were happening in real time. And I think with, you know, you had been around me and max and you know you can see that you know we have like a funny like like amazing companionship but like we don't you know sit in the corner and make out and stuff but

like we're um but yeah i think like this was his opportunity you know this was my version of rehab and he had an opportunity to really step up but look i'm not i i there were moments where i was like why I'm like so unattractive. Like I've lost all my like confidence and like, you know, what he was initially attracted to me for was that I was like a busy bitch, you know, and I was a boss and I was just like, you know, I think back at it now, you know, I was a problem solver, you know? And then all of a sudden I just threw this thing in his lap and I was like, out-and-house office. Like, I feel terrible on every level. And I don't know, like, what should I do? And I was like, why do you, you know, how are you going to be attracted to me now that I

have, like, a shell of a personality? Because I really felt like the most uninteresting person in the world with no personality and nothing. And I think I even say in the book, like, I was like, oh, we'd, you know, sit at the dinner table and I'd be like, I don't know, like, what did you do today? I don't know. You know, I cleaned the closet, you know, and I, I just was like, I have nothing. I used to come home with like the best stories. I think I met a star today. Yeah. Just wait, write this name down. And you know, I, I, I, and I'd be like, Oh, you're not going to believe this. I just had so much life to offer in this companionship. And, and, and then I, I felt like I had nothing you know I was like I made um a menorah today out of mushrooms I mean out of

you know marshmallows you know what I mean like I was just like this is terrible um I need more so you know that part like you know it was a real journey for Max and I and and um and I and as much as Becca you knew the history and the backstory for you to feel it um in a different way when you read it is is so meaningful to me because you know we and and you know I've heard your meet cute story and like how your journey um and I just like I'm so you know we you know we go through these you know life with these companions and you know you just don't know you don't really know who someone is in the good times you really get to know them in the in the challenging times. And, um, and like, yeah, relationships become stronger through

those challenging times for sure. Wait, I have to find the quote. I, I, I have a post it there. What your mom told you to look for in a partner. She said, um, look for a companion that's kind and ambitious because, um, they both age well. Oh, I love that. Isn't that great? Oh, that's so true. My mom was like, find someone who loves you more than you love them, but it's like close. Yeah. Kind of the same. It's just like when you get, and, and Zach is this too, which is just like, I don't know your husband, but he seems really, he's fine on Instagram. Great. Um, But, you know, I think that my dad was the kindest person. He was kind in hard times and kind just throughout. He never yelled. He never yelled at my mom. He never made her feel anything like less than. And I found somebody in Max that never made me feel less than, and even in like challenging times. And he, he just, he's incapable of being mean. And I think like that is like, you know, every woman should experience that kind of kindness because, you know, I can be mean.

No, for sure. I'm such a bitch and I can cut you, but like exactly where to cut place. I know where to go. I'm Dr. Diamond with your heart. I'm literally, I'm making the marks of where I'm going to slice you. No, I think that's so interesting to us. I really want to ask you about your dad, if that's okay. Um, you know, this, this book, you're kind of selling it as a, uh, grief journey through job loss. And, and, and, but this story, like Becca said of your dad, I'm very close with my dad. He just actually was here and he just left after a week and I cried. I never cry. I take so much Prozac. I can't cry to save my life. And like he left and I'm watching him get in the Uber and I'm just like crying. And I find myself like, actually after I read your

book, cause it's so fresh, I was like filming him a lot this week when he was with me and I was filming him, like just talking to me and doing things in the yard. And I was like, Oh my God, I have to like save these videos of him and him talking and his voice and all this stuff, because I'm so close to him and I love him so much. And the thing that's happening now in my life and a lot of our lives, you know, later into our thirties and it can happen anytime, but is that like, I'm watching my parents age and it's like so hard to watch them get older and realize that like, oh my God, they're like, you know, I hope he's around forever, but like, I know that's not the case. Um, and I just, what do you wish you would have done with your dad

or known about him or asked or like saved before you were so close with him before he passed away? Can you give advice to like us girls that still have our parents on like how to take advantage of that before it's too late? I don't know. Is that a weird question? No, I, let me think about that for a minute. I, I, you know, I kind of catch on this in the book that I, I was given this gift of time, this like painful favor of losing my job at a time when my dad needed me. And that's not to say that I, I wouldn't have made effort to be more available to him, you know, if I had my job, but I didn't have any distraction to pull me away. And I was able to really be there and take that same problem solving brain and try to problem solve like every

living situation, every, you know, staffing thing, every nurse, every aid. I mean, I had charts and graphs and like time schedule and, and, you know, my mom was, was doing the best that she could managing this, which was just sort of being in a state of denial. And I had to really get in there and like, okay, like he's, he has traditionally been the leader in this household and like, I have to step up and God gave me this window of time to do that. And so, you know, that kind of falls under that painful favor, which I talk a lot about and just sort of like this cycle of life of like, you know, things would have been different. I, I, I might have more regrets if I had had my job still. I, at the time I, I didn't, I couldn't see that favor. I couldn't see that

gift. I was so in it, but I, the idea that, you know, it's really, you know, in the book, and this is not like a spoiler, but you know, the fact that he saved every email that I wrote him and I, I discovered those, which I never knew that he did. I discovered them after he passed and how much I needed that in my life right then as part of this healing process was to hear my younger self talking to him and then hear his words back to me you know and I think that that if there's one lesson I can say is that like continue to write your parents emails and and listen to their, you know, sage advice or, you know, keep that, those things are going to last forever. And hearing him, hearing his voice so clearly in these emails that he had saved was

so amazing for me. And, and, and part of this full circle moment of, of getting over the job and, and just being like, yes, like I, I know who that girl is and I know who I was in this dynamic And that was my dad, the dad I want to remember, not the dad that I said goodbye to. Oh, that's really beautiful. Your book is, you don't harp on it at all. And it's just sort of a theme that you start noticing. It's this kind of divine timing of your life. There are so many things and the painful favors that she refers to all these moments as.

No, I love the saying painful favor. Stolen. It's so good. It's ours now. Thank you. But the timing of so many things like the whole book with your relationship, your children, your job, your dad, you're getting them into this assisted living and then the timing of so many of those things and you not having a job to take care of them down to the moment of finding those emails after he had passed and that kind of like being your life preserver back up into who you are, who you're meant to be and into this new chapter of your life. Like, I think it's a, it's a wonderful thing for everybody to sort of read this book and take stock of those painful favors and the divine timing that you're given. And not that you have to wrap it up in a beautiful, pretty bow, but just to like sit back and kind of marvel at how life can open up to you and, and serve you if you're willing to accept it. Yeah. And it's so hard to see in the moment. You can't you can't feel it in the moment. But, you know, I love that, Kelty, you're like anticipating, you know, wanting to feel that closeness, you know, just in just now watching him age.

And, and, and you will have those like videos and those memories and, and the conversations that you, that you cherish, you know, that I, I look back on, you know, the, the hundreds of pep talks that my dad gave me. And, and I, and, you know, going back to the, the painful favor, I, I really, I think, you know, in the book, it's like, there's just so much pain. And I think at the very end of the book, I'm like, I'm still looking for some of the favors in this, like why this was supposed to happen and, you know, what is supposed to open up for me. And, you know, anybody that is going through any kind of challenge or unexpected blindside in life, whether it's a divorce or you lose your job or you lose somebody that you love, you know, allowing, trying to embrace that this actually might open up something new in your life that you can step

into, um, is, is so hard to feel in the moment, but, and much easier to see when you look back. Oh, always, you know? Um, I also want to mention just quickly that there are some very funny moments in this book. I was just going to say we shit her pants. Okay. It is. I don't think it is. is it okay you'll see it coming I mean I yeah I just want you to know that the family that she went on vacation with her children and her husband and they thought she was dropping oh yeah yeah yeah this is separate okay yeah like they thought she was the nanny she's pooping her pants like there's a lot of really fun stuff like you're really a member of the lady gang like I know this has been a little heavy but that's like sometimes we need to have a real person come

on and talk about real things and not just like pooping and this ridiculousness. But I actually want to switch gears here before we let you go, which is to Becca Tobin. I'm going to embarrass her for a moment. You're you had and continue to be the smartest person that has ever been in casting. Becca Tobin is our most talented person we've ever met in our life. I know I am. And so she has had a painful favor of basically being the almost chosen person of every hit show in the last five years. And so we need a test pep talk. What would you tell Becca? I know she hates it, but I'm telling this out. So you're not. Yes, I am. What do you tell people about not giving up on their shit? Because Max was in the same situation in the book. You talk about it.

You know what, Becca? And you know, I believe in you. I am your number one fan, no matter what. And I love you so much. And I can't even believe that you would have a moment of self-doubt because this course is just beginning for you. And you have evolved and grown. And, you know, I talk about like when opportunity meets, you know, readiness, and you are ready. And this you are at the precipice of something huge. I feel it. And I and I feel like, lucky that I get to say I knew you when because this is just the beginning for you. And you have an undeniable charisma and shine that every single person I know acknowledges the minute they like lay eyes on you. It is, it is really undeniable. And I, I just, I want, I just want everyone to know you and the star that

you are, you know, it's just really extraordinary. Thank you. Cause sometimes we run, sometimes we run lines with her, but we never get to see the video. You know what I mean? Like there's been many times that i took her when she had a four month old on a book tour and then she'd be like in her bunk like running lines so that we could do the self-tape and like she really people she never talks about it no one ever sees the hustle i'll be like can you do these 500 things and she's like okay but i gotta do this so i'm like but then she gives me this 10 page thing and i'm reading the other character i'm like you have to learn all this like for one audition like this is insane and she's like no i did multiple classes and i went with my coach and like there's just so much

to it that she will never talk about because she's, I don't know why you don't want to talk about it. Cause she gets embarrassed like she is now, but like, we never get to see the other side of it. I only see her practicing in her bunk. You know what I mean? So I just want all the lady gang members to understand that like, we're not around. This is a talented mother bitch right here. Yeah. I thank you. The minute I saw you in the Dallas cowboy cheerleaders outfit, You knew. I mean, I knew before then, but that, but that's when I, you threw down the gauntlet and I was like, Oh, this bitch is, is not kidding. I saw the kicks and I saw the splits and I was like, I'm done. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I mean, tell me a little bit about how it's

going. Cause I, I want, I, I want to be, I, I know that you don't take advantage of sounding boards, but I am the best casting sounding board for any actor. I love talking about this and I should do a masterclass. Well, what I want to do is I really, um, I want to do, you know, one of the things that Max and I love to talk about is, um, your worst audition because it's just the best. And I have seen the best and like, and the worst.

and I, I never get tired of hearing these stories. You got to do a podcast with Max. Right. And so I, you know, I'm, I'm welcoming everyone to call me and, and, and get rid of the shame and break it down. And I will, I will listen to everything that you say. Tess, have you seen like really good, like people that are like crazy famous and stuff like bomb auditions? No, because they don't have to audition because they're offer only or just because they're so talented. You know what? Um, you're, you're talking about like, like who, like Matt Damon's of the world. No. Remember when that, um, Chris Klein, remember when his mama Mia audition got leaked and he had to sing and singing wasn't really his forte, but he was giving it as all

like but he's been wonderful in other things so probably like more like that right where somebody's amazing but it was a bad fit oh well i mean close to home um max had an audition for this movie factory girls oh yeah in which he was supposed to go in and audition to play bob dylan and he also had to sing and he instead of just making any kind of choice to make it his own he decided to go in and try to sing like bob dylan and um he just sort of closed his eyes and like went for it and sang and um at the end he opened his eyes and they were like thank you okay thanks and like he walked out and he was like he was like drenched in sweat and like he was like i have to i can't believe i just what just happened in there and they like i think the

agent called for feedback and they were like i know i mean that that that is just like one of my like i mean i like he he was traumatized he came home when he was like, something went really wrong there. And he goes, I am so embarrassed. And I remember what casting director was it? It was somebody that like, we know. And I remember it was Barbara Fiorentino. And he came, came home and he's like, I can never look at her in the face again. And then he was with me and we ran into her and he, he literally was like, just, I, we have to go. Like, Oh my God. And I was like, she's seen some things. She's seen some things. It's when you want to erase their memory of you, but they see so much. The other really great

casting story that I have, um, which I think should really inspire people is that, um, that Max, when, when I was right before I got my last big executive job, I was, I was in a casting office and I was working with my friends Brett and Colin and we were doing the pilot of Melrose Place the reboot on the CW and you know we were seeing every like little cutie patootie that would come in and um you know Max actually um fell in that cute range at that moment in time um and uh you know he went he went in in red and I was like you know I I'm embarrassed but I just won't be in the room when you come in and audition, came in and audition did not go great. Um, and they were just like, okay, thank you. I mean, he's too much of a New Yorker to like, yeah. Melrose plays soap

and he's a clown. So, um, they found out that he was my husband and as a consolation prize, They offered him a digital job of being the realtor of Melrose Place. And so his job was then on a digital camera to open up the door as he was a realtor and give a tour of Melrose Place, the apartment building. Oh, wow. and so not good enough to be on the show but could play the realtor that was like showing it around as like a place to live and like that's gonna live on youtube um i i don't i'm so afraid of where this might exist wait did he do it he did it so he was like i don't know and you know me and in those days i was just like this is an opportunity you don't know who's gonna see this

you gotta get out there and i shamed him into taking it and i was like you need this and like you know everything is a step in the right direction you are building something here you're taking this job and so he did not want to take it but he did because i pressured him and they gave him like a blazer and like you know they wardrobe him and like you know a slick like selling that type of outfit and he was like hey come on in and i don't remember what his character's name it wasn't Max it was he was like hey come on in I'm Robbie I'm going to show you around and like a camera was following him and he's showing the rooms of of where the show yeah yeah but um and they you know he wasn't good enough to actually be on the show or live in the

apartment but then the best part was is that as part of the marketing campaign they did bus stops oh no Max as a realtor like saying check out Melrose Place I have a property to show you all of these people were he thought he changed into real estate yes and like people were taking pictures of the benches and sending it to him and they were like dude are you in real estate now i saw you on a on a you know a bench on a bus they were all down melrose and like all over hollywood and on bus stops of like hey like here i'm fred i'm your new realtor blah blah blah and i don't think he's ever forgiven me. No, I wouldn't. Lady gang, get on it. Let's find this clip. It's going to be amazing. We'll be able to find this. If anyone can, it's the lady gang.

Yes. Okay. So Tessa's book, we've decided to go in a different direction is out April 1st. You can pre-order right now. It's going to be in your mailbox next week. It's going to be amazing. And you can follow her on Instagram at Tess Sanchez Greenfield. Why did I say it like that? I'm such an idiot. But anyway, the book is amazing. You guys, if you love like a good memoir, juicy, make you feel easy to read, but has a lot of heart. This is the book for you from the Lady Gang Book Club to you.

Tess, thanks for coming. Come back anytime and talk about sad things and happy things. Yay. Thanks, guys. We will. Thank you. See you next Tuesday. Lady Gang is executive produced by Jessica Crandall.

Social support from Kali Carrera. Editing from Jared Monaco. Producing from Steve Delameter. and iconic hosting, creating, and being the gang gang of all gangs by Becca Tobin, Jack Vanek, and Kelty Knight. Kelty Knight support by Derek Haley.